you know that saying "once you go black you never go back" NH........LOL

the same applies for mac's everyone & i mean EVERYONE i know thats made the switch, Does not ever want to pic up a pc again, you just have to try for yourself to understand

I will say one thing though johnnym... i was like you all windows... so i when i jumped over to the mac osx, there was a learning curve in regards to getting around. you don't need to do many tweaks or configure settings. since the mac osx is controlled so tightly most programs work right out the box (<--irony being that apple is pushing most programs through app store)

1. Generally more stable and smother with SSL than PC's. NOT saying that PC's cant be stable/smooth with SSL. But in general MAC's more easy going. This is even more true when it comes to Itch, IMO.

2. Generally better physical build quality than most PC's. Again, NOT saying that you can get PC's with great build quality. IBM thinkpads are great I hear.

3. iSeries CPU issue with SL1 & TTM57. If you ever need to hook up to one of the older interfaces, the mac will still be smooth sailing...

4. Video, if you ever wanna get into video, mac's have proven a lot better up until now.
Even though ME might be unsupported for the future.

But it basically boils down to your personal preference, just like the turntables and different mixers, car brand, type of beverage etc... The only way to really find out, is to actually try...

the os are very stable on an mac, much more user friendly, i really like how you can intergrade your phone, ipod, pad.
Back then,with windows, i could not multitask without my laptop crashing everytime.
on a mac, i can download music, watch a movie, play chess, do facebook & be on the serato forum at the same time. i could not do that on a pc back then.
Also, to me, itunes are way better than media player.
I been using a mac for about 9 years now, never looked back to pc.
I will say that pc has came somewhat a long way on their os system.
To me, it really depends on what your using a laptop or desktop for.
I say this, if your happy with working with your pc, then do you.

Also forgot to mention, I actually use both Mac's and PCs.
Mac for SSL, Ableton, Final Cut Pro, Adobe After Effects/Photoshop/Illustrator
PC for 3d Animation (Autodesk Maya)

- as long as you install the free security update, no need to worry about viruses/spyware/etc
- if you're going to do video mixing
- external hardisk, firewire 800/thunderbolt
- battery life and sleep (just close the screen), it just turn on instantly -
- you can stream your dj session in stickam/ustream using 1 mbpro
- you will look cooler, your dell sucks! :)

Man JM I went thru this on 2 other threads with u already. Just take the LEAP.
Mac is mainly better is because the OS is tailored just for their platform only, where as with pc the OS and periphials are fairly generic to fit a broad range of pc's which is what opens the WINDOWS (pun intended)to vulnerabilities and instabilities.

I was a mac guy at work pc guy at home for 10 years...hated not being able to customize a mac to operate the way I wanted.

Had my pc set to auto backup remotely after 6 hrs idle time on tue and thurs ( my late work nights)...to auto on and download from promo (no misquote)...set to play TV & Radio on other TVs in the house wirelessly...and transfer files between the laptop and two destktops wirelessly as well...
This all took my 4-6 months to set up and dial in with constant tweaking and virus removal on top of heavy heavy audio edits daily.

This takes a toll on your machines and I constantly was replacing something which meant the multiple parts of the system would go down...

Fast forward to Mac...2 laptops, iphone, Ipad and IMAC with Time CApsule... once I finally added the time capsule...I was able to set up the whole system in about 4 hrs...not saying its not possible on PC becasue obvioulsy it was/is but the MAC world is about intergration.

Setting tasks to revolve around you...not the other way around.



Aside from that the build quality and fit is much tighter as they are only focused on a much smaller line of products to attend to. With customer service quality similar to RANE / Serato

It's personal preference, but
1.) stability is known to be better because OS X is programmed to work with specific hardware, since Mac doesn't allow for much swapping of hardware. This is why you don't have to typically install drivers for OS X. But really,
2.) it's pretty much about the aesthetics for most people. Whether that's the aesthetics of the physical machine or OS X in general. They will just say it's more stable. The problem with this is that if a mac is not stable, it is harder to diagnose the problem since there's not as many customization options like in windows.

I am a PC person all the way when it comes to desktops and design/animation work, but macbook pros are sleek and compact and easy to carry around.
3.) The trackpad - Some people don't need to touch the laptop due to controllers ,etc, but if you need to scroll through tracks fast, swiping your fingers on the trackpad is an easy way to browse.

ral, are you using thinderbolt for both video and external drive?
Just feel sharing the port is risky business?

addition:
- if you want to add windows softwares, just add virtual box/vmware and you're all set

- nope, just internal

I switched to apple in 2004 before then I was all PC guy the reason why switched:

Mac OS systems did not crash on me when putting stress on the computer nor does is lock or freeze up as often as PC's

No tweaking needed it works great right out of the box if you tweak a Mac you run the risk of actually having it perform worse trust me I have done it

Software just worked like it should when I click to opena a program it opens. If a program freezes force quit normally closes it right away.

Mac OS makes better use of your systems ram and its not a processor hog leaving more for your software to run.

Graphics are top notch have you ever scene the wave forms scroll on a mac then watch the same wave forms scroll on a PC its almost night and day difference in the smoothness and speed

Apple care is top notch if you want to pay for it, I have had a mac not power on due to a resistor on the motherbaord burning out. They just dropped a new mac in my lap no questions asked.

I could go on and on when you join the apple fam its like a religion we relish in our God like computer....lol

The only downside is the amout of USB ports but to be honest its forced me to simply how I operate and I like it much better than having 8 USB ports on my computer that dont all function equally

Id say actually thunderbolt is an argument AGAINST mac actually, very few options for drives, and real messy if you wanna do video. There's e-sata and usb3 on pc's remember.
My next SSL computer is still gonna be a mac, just like my current one.

Thunderbolt will catch on similar to FIREWIRE...slow and more expensive but catch on none the less

The reason firewire is so great is the no hassle plug loop. Even better on older mbp's with both 400 & 800 ports IMO. My issue with the thunderbolt is the shared display port. I do have a new 17" mbp with thunderbolt, but haven't yet gotten any thunderbolt drives as I need to run my external monitor on the port.

Is there any thunderbolt split-cables/hubs out there?
I have been searching a few months back, but couldn't really find anything useful.

that cute glowing half eaten apple logo dude ....... LMAO

WarpNote
(Havent done this)
From what I understand it is a flexible loop...should be able to plug whatever into any port...doesnt your monitor have two thunderbolt ports? One into the laptop one into the harddrive performance shouldnt suffer.


At least this was what was explained to me.

My monitor has VGA and DVI. Its a samsung monitor also used for my Dell workstation laptop. Most projectors have VGA. If you are doing video/visuals on a projector, then a thunderbolt drive is a no go... Get what I'm saying?

Warp its to early to expect to see it every just yet...give it a year...supposedly cheaper than most connections...and you could always go in the hard drive thunderbolt out to video adaptor in to the screen/projector.

But I do agree its still to new...kinda what pissed me off about firewire...at first just wasnt enought support...soon as there was...800/usb3/thunderbolt

Ask yourself this, how many of your dj homies have macs vs the ones still rocking pc's?

Or look at it the other way, What are solid reasons why you should stay with your PC?

outside of price...

I know, new technology takes a while to catch on, its been out since feb last year.
Been a slow start compared to usb3 & e-sata imo.

As I haven't got a thunderbolt drive yet, I haven't tried to hook up a screen to a drive.
But I would say I'm a little worried about any sync/delay issues.

Belkin announced a hub but no vga/dvi port on it... www.macrumors.com
I guess someone will come up with a light hub for thunderbolt in, vga/dvi/hdmi+thunderbolt out.

I thought thunderbolt was supposed to be daisychainable like firewire?

Im a PC guy through and through. I do all my edits, production, downloading taggins sorting, everything on the PC.

My PC blows away my macbook in the speed department for serato, things load faster. My Macbook is slower but smoother on the serato experience.

I personally still hate the Mac OS for anything other than spinning serato.

My PC would never have audible dropouts, but that lil light came on all the time. The screen would freeze and jerk a bit more than my Mac.

Would any of this stop me from using Serato on a PC, No.

Really the only reason i run a Macbook is because i got a brand new MacBook for $400.

My next laptop will probably be a PC and ill go back to using serato on it. Reasons are, this is what i know really well, anything that happens out in the field i can fix.


TO sum up, does the mac run better than the PC for serato, yes a tiny bit. Is this tiny bit something that would make me spend 1500 bucks, no. Especially for someone like JM that is a PC guy for years, i dont think the difference is that much to have to learn a whole new OS and spend all that money for the same hardware.

I agree with CMOS. The reason I got a mac was because I needed a new laptop and a new desktop, so I decided that buying a macbook pro and a dock would cost about the same amount of money as a pc laptop and desktop, and i could use it for both. I was DJing on average 3-4 times a week for 6 years on the same HP laptop and never had a problem. I had one crash, ever, but it was a power surge that rebooted the 57 as well so the music would have gone off even if it was a mac.

I like my new macbook pro, but it's sitting about 10 feet away from me while I type this on one of my PC laptops...so it's not one of those "once you go mac you'll never go back" situations for me either.

to be original =P

Because your old as dirt and dont need to wase time confuguring a pc to work well

Plus its very compadible with your med alret bracelets

this is just Plan WRONG!!!!!!!!!

do they even still make, that help i'm falling and i can't get up thing?

LOL yes they do, just got one for my aunt who fell and busted her leg.

www.lifealert.com

johnny just uses his sample player and the airhorn when he falls in the booth lol

LMFAO..........you starting beef son

Nope, not specific enough...

I need details....

WHAT about the MAC makes them never want to pick up a PC again?

I'm a tech head, so there has to be some substance before I switch...

Again, I need specifics....

What DON'T you have to configure on a MAC, that you DO have to configure on a PC?

Anything lol,for one you never.have to worry about drivers, or defragging

Nothing really, when they say "all the configuration" it means uninstalling the bloatware that comes on a new PC.

As a matter of fact one of the forum guys PMed me about his new machine getting dropouts. I had him uninstall the dell backup program, uninstall norton and install something lighter, and he has been problem free. There arent really any tweaks necessary unless you are running an under powered machine.

I really think a lot of people on this forum got burned with vista and think 7 is the same beast. Vista required a lot of tinkering, 7 is good out the box as long a your manufacturer didnt load the machine up with other programs. Most do this, so it requires 10 min of uninstalling unnecessary crap before you can use the PC to its full potential.

Macs dont come with other programs installed, this is also how PC manufacturers keep the price down as these companies pay to get their apps installed by default. I just read something about google paying Sony a ton of money to make Chrome the default browser on the machines when you first start it up.

Ok, we're making headway here...




Ok, ITCH isn't an issue with me (NM), and I know how to optimize PC's for "smoothness", so there's nothing glaring there yet.



Ok, I've got an IBM Thinkpad 410, so I'm good on build quality




I'm on SL3, BUT it does have an iSeries CPU, but right now my current issue is with an XP video driver.



Ok, I'm game (NM), has Serato ever vouched for this? ^^^^



Now, that is what I'm thinking, but everyone's always yelling about GET A MAC.

Is it because they don't know how to configure PC's? If that's the reason, I'm not spending MAC MONEY if both platforms can basically be tweaked to the same standard.

NO!^^^^^
load a time caspule...open your wireless page on any MAC device...type in two codes...tell it to share what or not.

DONE! Automatic backup and wireless conectivity...add an external to the time capsule for more storage...its your router, modem and storage solution all in one. For all your devices.

oh damn to many postst before my arrows lol

Yes DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 you can tweak a pc to act like a mac...but why tweak it...

^^^^THIS!!!!

You already know your way around a PC. Why switch. MANNNNNN get off XP already, its almost 14 years old.

:P

Ok, I WOULD like the laptop to do multiple things, BUT hate iTunes.

I am able to optimize my laptop to multitask without crashes, so does that come down to a person's inability, (or lack of desire) to tweak a laptop?

Do people really know what to do?

I can configure anything and everything I wanted to on my PC...(did home automation remotely for a few years as well)...but on a MAC its already set up...ready to go...and way faster for the stuff that is not.

IF you get a MAC and go back and forth youll just feel the strain...its either look at the physical components and see the higher value and construction and really dive in to be immersed..if not itll always be a burden.

Aren't those things available on a PC/Laptop?

Where is it santified by Serato that Video mixing is better on a MAC? Not trying to be slick or nuffin, but I have yet to see Rane/Serato even take a side...

For example they HAVE endorsed the Shure's, so why not an OS platform, unless it REALLY depends on how well you tweak your laptop/OS?

LMAO @ my Dell sucking....ha ha.

The only SOLID reason i could give was if you wanna do video. However i have a feeling that serato video will work well on both platforms and thats one of the reasons they went and redid the whole shabang IMO.

Ok, I smell you on this. Makes sense. The hardware is built for the OS.

BUT - Why isn't MAC so much more endorsed by Serato/Rane?

all jokes aside, i'm not a tech head, i can't get it to all that, all i know is this i will never go back to a pc

it seem that everything is faster on a mac downloads etc. ,most thing are plug & play no drivers needed, i went to formate a drive on a pc it took forever, i do it on my mac & it's instant

i know you don't wanna here it, but there is a reason most people use macs, they just work better, retire that pc along with that realistic mixer, & get you a mac & some powered speakers MAN!!!!

man listen!!!!!!......lol.......& just so you know i'm an old cat just like you son, bin doing my thing for over 20 years

Interesting...However, I'm a BIG FAN of being able to Customize my OS the way I want it to work, but I get what you're saying.

Question - For all the work that took you 4-6 Months to set up, vs now a few hours for a MAC.

How much of that was an actual learning curve of what you wanted to implement vs. the PC "holding you back", if you understand what I'm asking.

Basically, was that 4-6 months inclusive of you trying different scenarios, until you knew EXACTLY what you wanted, but now here comes a MAC, so wouldn't it just be easier to implement it in a few hours since you practiced getting it just right over the 4-6 months?

Like, instead of a MAC, would you have NOT been able to have configured a new PC in the same 4 hours?

You're gonna overthink this one bruh... It's hard to site clear examples of why "this" is better than "that"...

No one metaphor would make sense over the other... Why are nikes more popular than any other shoe maker? Why foreign cars over domestic cars? Why SSL over Traktor? There would be strengths in every argument for each side.

What you have to do is just session with someone who uses a Mac and you take your PC and just field test it dude...

Come to the lab ill show you serato on both mac and PC, bring dutches.

bwahahaha

LOL

Thank you.

What's so special about a Trackpad, as my IBM has what I consider a Trackpad, so....unless I just have to use it to see the difference...

When I went to NAMM, most of the dudes Dj'ing were on macs, but Faust and Shortee were doing it on a PC... Why? Who knows or cares for that matter...To each his own... But I know every since I switched from my 3 Dell PC's to Mac, I've never looked back... But that's just me... Why do you like a shadow fade over my dreads? What you got against dreads homey? LOLOL

It's not about me hanging onto Windows like that, it's just that nobody has shown me a SOLID reason to switch to a MAC.

Everybody just says, MACS are just better, and I'm wondering if it's because people REALLY just don't know how to optimize PC's.

Ok, now we're getting somewhere....

lol

Good Question

Dazz - PC
Deez - PC
You - PC now MAC
Smoove - MAC
Crushin' - PC
Qua - MAC

3-3 so far...

Well, I'm a PC technician by trade, so I know these things inside and out.

Only now since I just acquired an IBM Thinkpad 410, have I run into issues running Serato.

Supposidly it's come down to the XP Video driver in correlation with the i5 chip.

( I loaded XP from scratch).

I was told the XP video driver is causing issues, and to "Upgrade to Win 7".

Now my thinking, is that maybe that WON'T solve the issue, OR that maybe Win 7 may have some OTHER issue with say, an audio driver...

So before I go the WIN 7 route, I wanted to see WHAT REALLY makes MACS so "Great"?

Or is it that cats just REALLY don't have the time, energy, or knowhow to configure a PC?

BINGO.

What do you mean to "Run like a MAC"?

I tweak them just to run GOOD by default...

YOU ARE THAT DUDE....

That is EXACTLY how my PC (old HP) performs to the "T"!!!

And what kills me is that the OLD one (HP/Compaq 6710b). I upgraded it to 3GB of RAM and a 500GB harddrive. Installed the OS myself, so no bloatware, and it ran Serato like a champ.

Enter the NEW IBM Thinkpad with the i5 Chip, the ability to do 4 tracks at a time as far as Overviews are concerned, and it runs like LIGHTING, except for scrolling in Serato.

So, now I either had to Purchase Win 7 and HOPE it solves my problems, but before that, I wanted to know if the MAC was a Superior product, and why.

Ok, same boat I'm in...Used the PC with NO PROBLEMS, until now with the new jawn, so I appreciate the insight....

So far there is nothing convincing me that I should spend 1500 MORE to get a LITTLE bit of performance boost...considering I'm not into video.

lol, My med alert bracelet is plug and play buddy..

Man, he ain't got no jokes...ha ha.

Who defrags on NTFS anymore?

That's a myth my dude...

Besides DISKSPACE IS CHEAP, and NTFS is efficient...so unless someone is using up GIGAGOOGLES of space, that's a non issue.

High resale value if you decide to upgrade or just sell. Apple's resale value is awesome you can get 250 for a used iphone compared to 18 dollars if that for blackberry of equal msrp, check Gazelle.com for prices

And here we go with cats not knowing how to configure a PC...

I'm installing the OS from Scratch, so I'm aware of EACH DRIVER and piece of software, how it starts up, and how much memory it uses...vs. a cat trying to uninstall bloatware, that's the worst...

LOL! So I should buy one, so I can sell it later....

Nah man, I generally buy for KEEPS....but the idea is to get Quality products.

two finger scroll = win (NM)

Gotchu....

LOL, to tell the truth, I JUST got my hands on a Volume License of Win & Pro, (both 32 & 64), so it's about to on like popcorn....

When I first came on the forum in 2007 or so - I was the biggest Mac fan boy - telling everybody why Macs were better (carry over from being passionate since I was a Apple Retail rep for Sears, CompUSa and Circuit city). I got into it with the Mac bashers but one of the forum homies (Kagen) made realize how stupid it was - I use the best fucking Computer OS in the world for DJing - why should I get mad and frustrated because some PC lover doesn't believe me.

A short while later - even Serato/Rane support began to "recommend" Macs because they were less problematic.


This alone makes it worthwhile to switch!!!!!

Gotchu.

I think either windows 7 or os x 10.6 is stable. I would not recommend using Lion yet. Either way, if you take care of your machine both are stable and both can crash.

The only thing i recommend is getting either and running the fan at a higher RPM. I also recommend creating a designated partition for mixing to avoid any driver or setting conflicts.

Gotchu.

From what I'm getting, the "REASON" why people use MAC is because of the simplicity of the SETUP. BUT they're paying a PREMIUM for it, and if I can so the SAME setup on a PC for 1500 bucks less, and achieve the same results, then WHY go to a MAC?

I've always said that MAC are for ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY...as a joke...

But I need to be able to not look at a MAC take a DUMP, and only be left with the option of taking it to Apple....if a PC fails in the field, I can take some sticks and straws and make it work....

No clue im on.a mac I dont gotta deal with it lol, look bottom line is your good times vinyl rip will play on both so it wint matter, matter of fact youll look like a fool using a cutting edge laptop with ur 1972 realistic mixer,now when you finallyget ur hand on a video edit of goodtimes that u wana juggle to death THEN look into a mac

^^^This...

Ha, what's a Dutch?

I might take u up on that offer tho CMOS...

Just haven't found my way to Brooklyn in quite some time...

Man, Dreads are too much to take CARE of ....like PC's!

I keep a low fade - Low maintenance - Like a MAC...

But seriously, WHY haven't you looked back? And you traded in 3 DELLS for 1 MAC, ? I want to be clear...

I was interested to see this post having read your help request, Johnny. (I read them all, it helps me learn).

From the point of view of a software developer, cases like yours must drive them mental!

You're using current hardware with an ancient OS, your graphics card drivers are apparently not compatible with XP. Now let's be clear, you know your PCs. You're not some noob.

But take situations like that, and multiply it by every CPU, every motherboard, every GPU, every range of drivers for those parts, every variety of windows, the service packs, the antivirus and anti spyware conflicts, all of those HUGE amounts of variables in the Wintel ecosystem.

Now look at Mac. In the last 5 years, how many varieties of graphics card? How many unusual CPUs? How many varieties of the OS beyond point updates which work on EVERY available machine?

Nothing stopped you installing XP on that laptop. Can I go back and install Panther on my 2011 MBP? No. Apple are quick to draw boundaries around their machines. Now, we can all agree that comes at a price; a lack of freedom.

But for a software developer, it must be a WORLD of difference optimising a high-performance piece of software for Mac and Windows.

And that is why for a program like Scratch Live, the mac version will always be more plug-and-play.

And that's why I use a mac.

Ok, WHERE?

being from the old school, another way to look at it is, if it's not brooke don't fix it......but we all have to try new things every now and than

when i paid, i think $500 for my ttm 52 i thought that was too much, if you ever told mer that one day i would be paying $1,600 for i mixer, i would have said.......

ARE YOU F@CKIG CRAZY, yet i sit here today playing nh with my new 62

From a SOFTWARE Developer's point of view MAC should rule by default, because, like you said, there's a small area to work in. Lines are drawn.

But again, you'd think that MAC would AT LEAST get the nod (and I reference the Shures again), like how they pointed you in the "desired" direction for needles...

Even there, I'm using Ortofons, so again, that's against the grain, but they don't make mention...is it that they don't want to piss off Microsoft?

Less driver support for Serato for Windows users?

Serato can't make all users go out and buy a MAC, so is there the chance that they think they'd be isolating the Windows users into using a competitive product?

Who knows...

And Smoove and Qua are not as Tech savvy as I (no Diss, they my dudes and all(NM)), but could it just be that those who are NOT TECH SAVVY will choose a MAC, just because of that reason?

I'm sure that Serato understand that a lot of people will use Windows, either by choice or because of their budget. It seems very sensible to try and support both platforms, especially as Wintel is so dominant in the market, even if it is harder to provide a problem-free product for everyone.

But as a user, if you are speccing a machine solely for DJing, and you've got the money, I'm saying buy a mac every time, for the reasons I outlined above. It's the easiest route to satisfaction, and I'm happy to pay for that.

Mac all the way.

Things I like about having my mac are these:

1. Easy to upgrade to newest hardware and keep everything the same. I just take my hdd from one mac to another and it just works. On pc laptops there would always be a driver issue with something. And that typically happened with the wifi driver so I could never connect to the internet to download it.

2. Easy to repartition my hdd to accommodate a testing OS or even Windows. I have added and removed so many secondary installs of OSX to test my Serato before taking it out into the real world. I even partitioned my hdd so I have my work OS during the day with all my programs and my Dj OS at night with just Serato and VSL.

3. Applecare. I know there are other warranties out there but Applecare is truly worth every penny. I typically never wait more than a day for a repair to be made to my laptop and have even had parts replaced due to accidental damage.

4. Time machine. Its built in and a snap to configure. Has saved my butt multiple times.

Plus this looks to be an awesome adapter to cut down on all the wires running to my laptop as is. My idea is that with this I plug in thunderbolt. Then I can plug in Serato, external drives, and video out with either hdmi or display port.

www.belkin.com

I always feel like the odd one out in these threads.

Had (two) PCs, ran 100% flawlessly with SSL for years.
I have a mac now (because insurance paid for one when a laptop got stolen) except for the waveforms looking smoother scrolling...I don't see anything else different for SSL.
Maybe it's just me...but I hate the OSX operating system.

My next laptop most likely will still be a MBP, but only because I want to get into video.

Well as with most things newer, or better things come out you still have option of selli glike the 57 selling for very good price when 62 dropped, i bought a powerbook g4 for 400 dollars a few years back, sold it for 350 two years later. Its an option to sell, but it is a buying point for future of Mac you may buy. Works the same with cars a honda crv has a WAY higher resale value than a civic... People like having that option of making some money back when getting new equipment.

Switched to mac about a year ago. I prefer it for most things but with scratch live it was all the same. If Windows just upgraded Xp instead of that Vista and 7 crap I'd probably still rock one on a Sony Vaio or something. All other computers in my house are pc though.

Just sayin and this is a true story...I had to use my pc for awhile cause my mac's power cord stopped working. A pc which had no virus software or spyware installed...the minute i used it to go online i got spyware immediately by just browsing normal websites..didn't take me long to get rid of the spyware as i know how to troubleshoot it...anyways few weeks went by and I had the mac up and running again with a new power cord. Turns out I got hacked from my itunes account the day I had to use the pc. My itunes is tied into my paypal which is then tied into my bank account...I had two unauthorized charges from itunes the date I used the pc. I got the charges cleared and the money back into my bank account. It was a major hassle. My main point is that a Mac works right out of the box you are protected with security updates and never have to worry about buying virus/spyware to protect you. This should be every reason for you to get a mac. I love windows but Mac OSX blows it out the fucking water. A windows machine is far easier to hack into than a mac. Mac's can get viruses but it is so very rare. I have even downloaded virus software for my mac and scanned my computer for viruses....and guess what? Not 1 virus so I uninstalled it with Mac OSX you are protected..I can browse music, websites, porn and still be protected...oh and you can forget about popups cause mac's block em.

And I payed $2400 for my Macbook Pro 15". Was it worth it? Umm..to never have to buy another laptop for many years..YES! Lifespan of a Mac will last longer than a PC. Truth..

Ain't that the truth Truth.

If you make a Serato thread to make others convince you to buy a Mac, it's probably your subconscience trying to tell you to go with the Mac.

Can I have your PC when you go to the Darkside Johnny?

I prefer windows for most everything, but that's because I can build a blazing fast liquid cooled desktop for the amount i'd get a shitty hardware macbook pro... but we're talking about DJing aren't we?
I fully agree with the software developer above saying macs are built with specific hardware in mind, so there aren't as many conflicts going on with drivers but also less freedom. That's the first thing i mentioned earlier in the thread.

However, as all parts of a DJ setup, it comes down to budget and personal preference. I only mix with a mac because I had one to begin with. I only got one to begin with because I always told myself i'd get a macbook pro if I bought a laptop. This is because it's compact, and I work tech support for a university, so knowing all OS's is nice. If i was buying a laptop solely for DJing, I would definitely buy a win7 machine. Spills, money, hardware, chaos, etc. Lenovo makes laptops that are practically bulletproof, and that's why lots of medical centers use Lenovo machines (not to mention windows is much easier for network/domain configuring).

There's a lot of organization that goes on with DJing though, so if someone is more comfortable in windows, I would not at all recommend a mac considering how little there are major problems on either system, especially if you know what you're doing. (below)

Even if you're on windows, creating a partition just to be used for DJing with nothing but drivers and serato installed and no internet connection/wireless/bluetooth, you're not going to have that many problems that you need to pay hundreds extra to get a mac.

It's really all about being prepared and knowing your operating systems and optimization tricks.

i'm a pc guy but i use my macbook air to spin with. i originally got a MBP a few years ago and I wasn't impressed with it really. i had more crashes on it than i did my older and lower spec'd thinkpad. but i recently got an air i fell in love with it. it doesn't get very hot after a night of spinning...having a SSD is amazing...and i could probably gig a night without plugging it in because the battery is so kick ass. also, despite having my air for just a few months, I am still impressed with it's form factor.

also apple's customer service is killer, especially if you have an apple store near you. this is huge for those of us who make a living off our computers

I use my thinkpad for day to day use and my mac to dj with. on that note, lenovo has some amazing machines and some of the best customer service i've ever seen. i think i could happily switch to one of their machines and be equally as happy.

Props to everybody that's responded...

I guess part of my fear is that I'm a control freak. I've seen a LOT of threads on here about y'all that own MACS going through the WRINGER just to do simple stuff like upgrade a harddrive, about the height not being able to fit into a UNIBODY or whatever it's called...also memory upgrades, and like if anything goes wrong you HAVE to go use Apple Care for something that the average user can't fix...or is that also the average TECH?

So, like I said, I've got a Thinkpad, I'm Lenovo certified, and they have pretty good service regardless, (except when it comes to updating video drivers for XP, > :(.

Case in point, what about the buffer settings?

How tight can you go with the average MAC for a DJ such as myself, who is not a QBERT, but likes a tight intergration between vinyl response time and record movement?

To be fair JM...the hard drive height thing is universal. For a while, the only 1TB laptop drives available were 12.5mm high instead of the standard 9.5 so they didn't fit in most laptops, PC and Mac.

Get a MAC for the OS X knowledge..

You never know when your clients are going be using MAC's

I like all things technology.. I plan to get a mac also eventually, solely to conquer the workings of another OS..

I was contacted twice late last year to fix 2 computers - I couldn't do it cause they were Mac's - I thought to myself - you messed 2 paydays because you are exclusively a "pc guy"...

fixed
: )

Opposite to Windows, Mac's OS runs everything separate, so when there's an issue with whatever process and it crashes, the rest of the system will still be working. the OSX is based on Linux and that kinda structure is also used for like army missiles, so reliability is very important.

I was a PC guy to the bone as well, I had my XP tweaked to the max for Serato and it worked well. I hated Mac and the image around the brand, but right now, I'd never go back to PC for SSL. But.....almost everything else, I still do with an XP laptop

I've never had an issue with replacing a harddrive, and never (until reading in this forum), knew that the HEIGHT of the drive was even a factor.

Only when people talk about MACS would something like that come up.

See, now THIS makes perfect sense, and I would be MUCH more inclined to lean towards this, however, NOBODY, wait, I did get ONE request for service on a MAC....and had to turn it down in the last year....

And I'm CONSTANTLY repairing PC's.....

LOL! This is mad funny. This is a double edged sword...

For one, it keeps you employed, with lots of side work opportunity as all I do is show cats the GEEK SQUAD prices, and just charge them 50% - 75% of whatever that cost is...

But, I'm the type of tech that likes to know and create my own environment for a customer, so most times I can convince them to let me back up the data, wipe the drive, reinstall the OS and software, configure it "correctly", and I NEVER hear from them again.

I'm a strong believer in "Do it right the 1st time".

^^^ you just 60% described my day job

Ha! Don't quit it, there's a lot of money in it!

This may be me...I don't have an iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, and don't embrace anything Apple related, as they've always been a "Closed" system, yet with something like iTunes, is Front End friendly, but behind the scenes is a nightmare...

But again, an EXTRA 1500 for marginal improvement just isn't cutting it at the moment...

Hey JM !!! Don't get a MAC. If it's taking all of this influencing and sales pitches then u really don't want one or need one. Stick with your PC since it works for u. MAC aint for everybody.

Fuck it get a mac install bootcamp and run windows if its that.big of a deal

I'd never quit my job unless I could make some serious cheddar from DJing

I'm looking at my options....and you can't use that Jedi mind trick...

So you don't think 1500 bucks is a big deal?

Johnny one more thing I wanted to add about the mac vs PC debate.

Me and my wife use to share one mac computer. I had the 2 monitors set up and I could DJ on serato on one screen while she did whatever on the other screen without any hiccups and we operated like that for a long time. I know on a windows machine I would have problems multi tasking without the OS freezing up

Don't get me wrong, I don't need that much "Selling", but then again, don't you do as much investigation as possible before making a major purchase?

I'm not the one to "Take the Leap", just because...

u smell me?

I wanted to know from cats that can give a DEFINITIVE ANSWER as to why a MAC would be better to DJ with vs. a PC.

Especially from a technical perspective.

All that "Just get it" doesn't cut it.

What it's really coming down to is that you can get the same level of performance from a LAPTOP if you know how to CONFIGURE a laptop effectively.

Some may not want to invest the time, or just may not know the innards like that.

Props to all who responded, both from a technical and non-technical perspective.

Wow...Ok, good to know...

Johnny, pop in a spare hard drive in your Lenovo & load Win 7. You'll have 30 days before you'll need to register it.... Use that time to see how it works with Serato. You don't need a Mac.

DJJOHNNYM_vSL3

You asked if it was learning what I wanted or the apps....in a sense it was learning...but it was learnig what would operate how I wanted it...not what I wanted.

Honestly thought I was giving these options up when I finally swithed.

I like you am a control freak...and everything I wanted to tweak with two exceptions I was able to tweak on my macs for free...in Windows they are all system functions (part of the OS which really is a problem) But on my mac they are handled by third party apps...and it does it at a level I thought not possiblle on mac.

You stated your self youve had 1...ONE mac repair job request...and countless PCs...MESSAGE!
I installed a 2nd harddrive in my mac...reapaired a freinds cracked screen...ive swapped out other djs bluetooths...speakers...etc etc...its not hard...if not easier since the lines are all set up similar.

The only reason you saw the harddrive question for macs is becuase our systems are so similar that its an easy answer. The question came up for me with the PC as well trying to go with that large of a drive and the only answer there was to research manufacurer, serial number for chip set, then find what hard drive...yada yada... with the mac it was literally ...hey will this work hey does this work with this model...yes or no.



let me ask you DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 : What is it that you have set up on PC that you worry wont translate in the MAC relm?

Ma dude, you see where I'm at!

I just (YESTERDAY), acquired a Volume License for Win Pro 7, and a spare Sata, so you have stated EXACTLY what I have in mind.... :-).

i keep telling you its that glowing half eaten apple !













































hahahahaha im just kidding , all i know after almost 3 years using a custom mod HP laptop ,then bought a standart macbook white,i feel the difference in response in using SSL , i dont know why,im not exactly tech savvy ,after a while that macbook pro aint cutting it anymore,im in lust for more speed, more power ! thus copping the i7 macbok pro,strip it bare with only time machine,itunes,traktor,SSL and ableton installed

i only use ableton for my live band,my whole studio is windows based,i still produce in windows

*macbook


afgan kush aint exactly a friendly forum browsing snack LOL

Cool. I also have a T410 with Win 7 as my backup laptop. Serato works fine on it...

and yes ssl works flawessly on my hp laptop in those 3 years of using a windows pc,no problem at all , if i recall i never experienced crashing on those hp laptops , i really dont know why i bought a macbook in the first place,just some spontaneous buy while taking my girl to get an iphone (nope i dont have an iphone,im a blackberry guy)

It's not necessary a particular app, versus going through the entire learning curve of the OS of MACS, and possibly having to rely on someone else, (Applecare) to resolve issues that I normally would have full access to via a PC/Laptop.

HA! I knew if I kept digging someone would pop up with a similar configuration.

A Thinkpad 410 right?

Just to confirm, what video card do you have?

Oh, and an extra 1500 bucks.

I gives a fuck what you do...but read what you wrote there. Then put two and two together. I hope, for your sake, that you can come up with four.

Here. I will help.

And I'm CONSTANTLY repairing PC's.....

...

I bought an iBook in 2004 when I got Serato. Never once did I have problems with it or had to take it to the Apple store or whatever.

I bought a Macbook in 2007 to replace that iBook so I could do video, sold it at the end of last year... Never an issue or a problem.

Bought a MBP quad core... no problems so far.

I hope you see where I'm going with this.

-----

As far as the comment about hard drives not fitting in Macs and fitting in PC's.... have you seen the size of those PC laptops? You could put an entire external in there, case and all! lol

nm

Let me add that up for you.....and give you a lesson at interpretation to boot...

NOWHERE ANYWHERE did I say I'VE ever had to constantly repair MY PC or LAPTOP, so those numbers mean nothing to me, except a way to stay employed and make some loot.

So AGAIN, we're back to the reason for buying a MAC...

Is it mostly because people don't want to be BOTHERED with configuring a PC, or lack the knowhow...

Or is it just a better machine all around...and worth 1500 bucks to upgrade over a comparable laptop.

Add that up.

Right, and in the same breath, I'VE NEVER had to take any of MY laptops or PC's in for ANY type of service...

Now, I'm hearing about how great Apple care is, and that leads me to believe that when you get a MAC get the Applecare, because you're gonna need it.....

This is what I've experienced just by watching close friends who own PC's.

Oh, I gotta tweak this.

Oh, I gotta remove viruses.

Oh, I gotta reinstall everything.



....

With Macs, I've never even THINK about getting a virus. Yes, there are some trojans out there but you would basically have to install them yourself to make them work. lol

The reality is.... Macs are less trouble free BECAUSE THE HARDWARE was specifically designed to work with the software/OS.

If you do switch to a Mac, you're gonna feel like a noob and like KaGeN, you're going to have some serious problems with it... because you're going to be thinking like a PC man.

Watch.

nm

Negative. I've never bought Applecare either. The Macbook had 3 years applecare when I bought it used for $500 bucks.

Insurance is like insurance. You may need it, you may not. Applecare is great because they'll replace a lot of shit that most places will give you shit for. That's the thing about Apple. Customer service is actually good. I would say as good as Ranes. I've seen them replace iPhones, iPads, laptops... or fix them for free .... when they didn't even need to.

Remember, no matter if it's a PC or a Mac, it might break or have issues. But, I think it would be safe to say that Macs experience less issues OVERALL than PC's... because there are way too many component, driver variations. nm

I don't get it. I installed Windows on my HP, installed Serato, DIDN'T HAVE TO TWEAK ANYTHING, and am smart enough to have a working antivirus and have NEVER had a problem.

As a matter of fact, I (on my old laptop), have Wifi Enabled, can download music WHILE spinning on Serato, and lots of other stuff, and not one "Unexpected" blip...

I mean, I CAN FORCE IT to get overwhelmed, but I have lots of headroom, and no problems until this Thinkpad.

I hear you, but at the same time, I'm hearing the BULK of posters say, "Get Applecare", but that may also be parallel to their level of expertise in opening up and trying to FIX a MAC, or not having the need to...

Did you install video? Nope. That's where most of the tweaks come from. Seriously, if you're not going to do video. Don't get a mac.

"and am smart enough to have a working antivirus and have NEVER had a problem."

Come on man, even you should know that antivirues are only good FOR EXISTING KNOWN VIRUSES...

The reality is that there are a TON OF VIRUSES for PC's vs those for Macs. That alone should be a reason to change. Kinda like a guy who drives a Honda and is always wondering if his vehicle will get broken into or stolen.

nm

Here's a real life example. And, again, I'm saying DON'T GET A MAC unless you plan on spinning video.

My buddy who spun at the same spot as I did for 5 years bought one of those build your own monster laptops. That thing was a beast, 3 hard drives, 2 video cards, top of the line shit when he bought it. I remember him maxing out EVERYTHING.

I had my trust Macbook. All stock. He had issues with video, I didn't. He was always tweaking shit, installing drivers, etc. to make his video work. I didn't.

Here's the kicker. His laptop cost him (at the time) like over 2 grand (cause he wanted the best). I paid $500 for my macbook with 3 years applecare cause some dumbass college student got it as a gift and wanted to get rid of it quickly to buy an macbook pro. That macbook at the time cost like $1100 or so.

Anyway, the point is....

a) You gotta always look for deals. Just cause it's a Mac, it doesn't mean it's going to cost you a ton of money. Hell my MBP is a quad core that is REFURBISHED; knocking about $500 off a brand new one.

b) With video, (VSL and ME), you're better off with a Mac. Well, the whole Mix Emergency or ME, may not apply anymore. We will see.

No, I don't ever anticipate doing video...

You can't be serious. There are LOTS of PC/Laptop heads here who will agree with me, that all you have to do is use COMMON SENSE when it comes to emails and such, and your chances of getting infected, (and not having your Antivirus pick it up), are damn near non existant.

The people who I see who CONSTANTLY get infected are those who love opening up emails from ANY OLD BODY, and clicking on that "File" or "Link".

99% of viruses are introduced into the computer by the End User themselves.

Buy a used macbook pro that a couple years old and there won't be that $1,500 difference.

Why are people even talking about viruses in this thread??!! I'll say it again, if you're not a complete dumbass, virus is not a problem on windows 7. Why do I say this? Because if you're not a dumbass, you'll have a separate partition running just serato with no wireless/internet connection.

Johnny, it seems you are tech savvy and you say you work with all windows in your studio and that's what you produce in. And you don't know the mac OS that well... Don't fucking switch then, there's no reason. You'll just be paying more for aesthetics and an OS that is not proven to be better than windows and one you're unfamiliar with.

The only pros for mac over windows laptop for DJing is
Aesthetics
Trackpad (not even used if you have a midi controller, so almost irrelevant)
POSSIBLY better stability, though not proven. As mentioned before, if you know anything, you'll know how to make a laptop stable/optimized for DJing.

You say you want speed, i think it's a given to get windows 7. Much better handling of memory and everything. You can spend the extra cash on getting an SSD and a blazing processor/ram combination.

I don't think you'll be nearly persuaded enough as you are seeing that there aren't many legimatie arguments to buy a mac over PC other than people saying "it's just better" or "it just works". Well that's ignorant as fuck, and sadly that's how most apple users are.

That is true... and I could open the same file or link with a mac and not get a virus. Get what I'm saying? :)

nm

and there is your answer. Don't get a mac.

I see you on that, but that dude, even though he bought the top of the line stuff..

Apparently didn't know how to get it to work together seemlessly vs. buying a prebuilt machine.

I already know that software designed for a MAC will just integrate BETTER with a MAC because of the nature of the machine....

But again, there's the whole " Why doesn't Rane/Serato just give it the signoff that a MAC is BETTER?

Unless they know that BOTH platforms are basically equal IF CONFIGURED correctly.

That's all I'm sayin...

I had a 1st gen Black Macbook in 2006...it worked ok, but did get pretty hot and I did get a few dropouts at gigs. 2 of the keys on the keyboard kept popping off, and since it was a new model, the Apple store didn't have any spares. Before the 1 year apple care expired I was able to get new keys via Applecare.

I got a 2nd gen Black Macbook in 2007 and sold the 1st one. It worked ok, but the battery stopped charging, and I was able to get it replaced within the 1 year warranty via Applecare.

I got a 1st gen Aluminum unibody Macbook in 2008, and around the 11th month of the 1-year warranty there were some bad pixels in the corner of the screen. I got a new screen installed and decided to purchase Applecare just in case (you can buy it anytime within the 1-year warranty). I'm still using the 2008 Macbook with no problems.

I also have a Mac mini that hardly gets used that had bad memory, and I had to take it to Applecare to get replaced (within the 1-year warranty).

I'm not saying Macs are invincible...obviously I've had some sort of issue with each one so far. Thankfully the problems have been fixed easily. The hardest thing was scheduling an appointment at the Genius Bar which I had to do a few days in advance here in NYC. And then waiting to be seen when I got there on time for the appointment...

My Macbook is used exclusively for DJing...the only time I ever go on the web is to run system updates, download new versions of SSL/Itch, and new versions of Firefox.

Stick to what you know & save your money. Don't worry, be happy.

I got a Mac just because I wanted something new to learn. The 2-finger scroll is the best thing since sliced bread. (at least you have the scroll button on the Lenovo T410 so that's a your alternative)

I'll double check when I get home and get back to you.

If viruses are the #1 reason people are telling you to get a mac, get a fucking PC. That's the most retarded shit ever. UAC (User account control) in windows makes it basically idiot proof to get a virus. It has to get confirmation on everything that needs administrative priveleges to isntall a virus, and if you're not a dumbass, you won't click "yes install" to something you don't know what it is.

Word!!

"Apparently didn't know how to get it to work together seemlessly vs. buying a prebuilt machine."

Nope. Actually, the problem was not doing the research. See, VSL always worked better with Macs because it was easier for them to configure their program to work with macs. Less shit they had to deal with like different video cards, drivers and what not.

You have to think from a programmers point of view. This is why Mix Emergency (for video) was created ONLY for the Mac. Easier to make it work without having to deal with a ton of configurations on a PC.

See, that's the thing. I could click on that same thing you're talking about with a mac and still have no effect on it. hahahaha

The reality is that most viruses are DESIGNED to work with a PC. That's a fact.

I would also highly recommend not getting a mac and spending extra on a large SSD for your music and OS installation... There are no moving parts basically, so no shock or bumping from loud club environment, and if you DID happen to need to restart your machine for any reason, your OS will be installed on it and reboot blazing fast.

But alright mac users, what else ya got? Viruses, "its just better". WHAT YOU GOT?!

"But alright mac users, what else ya got? Viruses, "its just better". WHAT YOU GOT?! "

Apparently, you can't read. Anyway....


Yes, get an SSD regardless if it's a mac or PC.

nm

Or you could click on that same thing with a mac and THINK nothing happened when in reality, a keylogger is on your machine chilling in the back writing down all the passwords you type in any website... it's not impossible to get a virus on a mac people, research shows this. That's probably one of the most common misconceptions. But if you want to pay hundreds extra just so you can click on something that you think is a virus and be proud that nothing happens, then be my guest

lmao.. that just shows me how LITTLE you know about macs.

LOL! Talk about reading between the lines...

Let me be clear - I don't work in a Studio or Produce, I just DJ.

I don't divide partitions because I know how to handle data, viruses, and anything PC/Laptop related. Those are crutches for people who want to be EXTRA careful...but the truth is that a NASTY virus will disable your harddisk altogether, and no partition divisions in the world will save you, unless it's a totally separate drive....

But I'm WITH you on the whole thing of Windows 7 having better memory handling...

and you spoke the truth right here -

SOME people have said it's a little more stable and smooth, and I won't refute that, but chalk that up to MAC and the OS working in sync as designed.

"it's not impossible to get a virus on a mac people, research shows this. "

Again, you can't read.

nm

Yep, in other words, Dummy Proof...

But why be a Dummy in the 1st place?

People need to learn how to safeguard themselves against dumb stuff like that...

"SOME people have said it's a little more stable and smooth, and I won't refute that, but chalk that up to MAC and the OS working in sync as designed. "

Exactly...

"Yep, in other words, Dummy Proof...

But why be a Dummy in the 1st place?

People need to learn how to safeguard themselves against dumb stuff like that... "

Exactly. This is why I'm saying.... if you're not going to do video.

DON'T GET A MAC!

:)

Save your money. You know what you're doing with PC's and you have common sense. That alone is a reason not to switch.

so you're saying it's impossible to get a virus on a mac? I might have misread/not read something you said earlier, i'm not starting a war, i just think it's naive to think mac can't have any virus.

Yes a nasty virus will completely fuck a drive, but you would know about this long before a gig, not to mention you'd be doing full drive backups regardless of PC or MAC.

Now ^^THIS^^ is what I'm used to hearing on here...about how MAC's have issues, but Applecare saves the day...

Thank you sir.

Ok, but you're going on a VIDEO tangent, we already know I'm not looking to do video...

The question of IS DOING VIDEO IN SERATO better on a MAC or a PC a better topic for what you're outlining.

But dude, you're talking about VIRUSES...

People that KNOW HOW TO WORK PC's and practice "Safe Surfing", aren't going to get infected...

The Virus selling point for MAC is ok for a n00b, but that won't fly over here..

But AGAIN, I wanted to know if there was something so GROUNDBREAKING about a MAC as far as DJ'ing (non-video) and Serato is concerned that I just didn't get...

So I asked the question....and aside from some "Slight Improvement" and "Configuration Ease", I'm not hearing cats saying, "Naw man, I can put the buffer on the ABSOLUTE LOWEST SETTING, I have Zero latency, NO Dropouts, everything is SOO MUCH better than a MAC...blahh...blah...blah..."

But I'm not hearing that definitive argument....so it's really coming down to how well an individual knows how to configure a PC/Laptop, or desire to NOT have to do it which leads to the purchase of a MAC, aside from Video of course...

***everything is SOO MUCH better than a PC...blahh...blah...blah..."

Right, but that whole "Put Serato on a Different Partition" is BS (IMO), as it is moreso a better way for you to manage data.

BTW, I'm not shootin' down my MAC Peeps and saying you're incompetent to configure a PC, but am just trying to get a REAL PICTURE of what's good...

"so you're saying it's impossible to get a virus on a mac? "

Again, learn to read. TELL ME EXACTLY WHERE I SAID THAT.

Read my posts..... don't draw your own conclusions.

^ i agree, no hate from me here.

You think Serato on a different partition is BS? How so? It's typically recommended to run DJ on a separate partition due to driver conflicts and unnecessary processes/memory usage.

Sixxx, sorry man. You just kept saying how you click on things that are known viruses without having to worry, i suppose i did draw my own conclusion but you sure paved the path to it... haha.

"But AGAIN, I wanted to know if there was something so GROUNDBREAKING about a MAC as far as DJ'ing (non-video) and Serato is concerned that I just didn't get..."

There is no such thing. Basically, a Mac is easy to use, very easy to configure. You're past that point. You're better off with a PC.

I personally can work on either a Mac or PC, but I choose to not waste my time having to figure out what works and doesn't with whatever particular brand of PC I have. With a mac, I just run a simple update and I'm ready to go.

Case in point. I purchase a mac, install SSL and video, and I'm ready to roll without much hassle. Can this be done on a PC? Sure. Will you run into issues? You may, you may not. It really depends on the user.

As a PC user, you know what PC's to avoid right? As a Mac user, you don't because they're all basically the same. So, if anything, the groundbreaking thing is that you don't have to worry about much. lol

nm

I forget who it was but I think it was Deez who bought a Mac when he went to the Namm, installed SSL and was ready to go and he had never owned a mac before. Someone who has never ran a PC and doesn't know much about it will run into problems faster than someone who has never worked on a Mac.

It was just designed that way. nm

I'm going to give you another example without going too far off topic. A lot of people prefer iPhones because they integrate well with iPads, their Macs, etc. EVEN THOUGH THEY LIMIT THE HELL OUT OF YOU and you get MORE with an android.

Again, the ease of use. And this is why Apple limits the user... because we all know problems usually start at the user level.

nm

Btw, I prefer Android better because I don't have to jailbreak an iPhone to get it to do what I need it to do.

nm

only reason you should know of;

I've owned my Mac purchased in June 2011 and it's NEVER crashed on me. I dj 3x/week and strictly use my mac for deejaying purposes. No browsing, no downloading, no app store, no nada. Just Serato. Works flawlessly. I've used an HP i7 core and a Dell i5 core and they always froze or f'd up my serato crates for some reason. MAC as much as I thought I'd never purchase one, has made me a believer. Iphone and Ipad ready too . Hope this helped.

they do limit you... it is one of my largest gripes that macbooks can't just use a universal VGA or DVI connection and make you pay $30 for an adapter. Might be due to the size but for real? Include that shit with my laptop at least.

They used to include adapters.... I remember my iBook came with video adapters. Then, my Macbook years later only came with one and now my newest one had ZERO adapters. I'm like wtf? You fuckers! lol

nm

Ferengi rule of acquisition #141: "Only fools pay retail" </trekkie>



www.amazon.com

I wouldn't buy just any adapter for a mac. Trust me. Not all of them work as they should. It's unfortunate but true. nm

Wrong...spyware can infect your computer w/o you even knowing it..or windows. To find out if your pc has spyware/malware use a free program called malwarebytes it is the best program i've seen for pc's it fully detects the spyware and allows you to flush it completely from your hard drive..You'd be very suprised at what you'll find. Spyware is not like a virus. It can hid itself in windows processes, folders, files, windows directories.

I have learned that the biggest difference between Pc & Mac...is the buffer. Alot of pc's cannot handle serato's buffer at the lowest. And from what I've learned and experienced the buffer on the lowest setting will give you tighter control with the crossfader and scratching..Most Pc's cannot even handle the lowest setting due to dropouts..Mac can handle the lowest setting with "no dropouts" Booomm!

Who recommends or recommended that?

What does having Serato on a separate partition have to do with driver conflicts? lol.

From a technological perspective, that is total BS. as the drivers would effect the ENTIRE harddrive, not just separate partitions....

^^^^THIS is what I think the main reason is for cats who go to MAC, not a defined performance increase^^^^

Go buy a mac and use it for a week. if you don't like it return it. I'm sure most are past that mac fanboi crap.

us with mac's are not trying to figure what's the magic key for it to work. its plug and play.

pc its not. its install this install that. dam that didn't work right

maybe this will nope etc

shit let me call this maker then they say call this to only get put on hold.

if your pc registry gets infected your a goner. game over start all over again.

the most solid reason or comparison i could give is this.

Mac is Serato when you could install a beta and gig with it that same night.

PC is VDJ It will work but for how long. that thought is always in your mind of is it go crash.

Now if ANYBODY ELSE on the forum would have said that, I'd be willing to listen...

But that right there can make you late for a gig or even loose a gig. got 2 gigs recently from that. reason alone.

I don't think I clarified myself properly. By dual partition, I mean daul boot setup. So when you turn on your machine, you choose which operating system install to load.

If you have drivers installed for all sorts of peripherals and have reinstalled audio, video card drivers all the time on your main boot partition, i'm saying a separate boot partition designated for just serato is smart with only crucial drivers and no other software.

But regardless, it's about budget. If you have the ridiculous money for a really fast mac (cause you said you wanted speed), then I'd get a mac.

It's true. I was on my PC b4 mac and my buffer was at 10+ up to 15 at time and still got dropouts.

on my mac its at -1 no dropouts.

Why is someone deciding to "TWEAK" their LAPTOP/MAC right before a gig?

Stop playin...

Don't buy into this!!!


I did not even mention it because there are other factors that can prevent you from having the lowest buffer.


In my iBook I had it set to lowest setting. Then, SSL added extra shit and slowly bit surely I had to move it to a higher buffer.

I bought my macbook and boom, again lower settings.
Then as SSL again became more full of crazy features and video
slowly but surely my buffer went up all the way to fucken 15!!!

Now, MBP quad core, again lowest setting.

See my point? nm

Ok, then I retract my last statement...

Thanks for clarifying...

Gotchu.

Ok, would you say you know your way around a PC to the level of device driver versions and whatnot?

Background tasks?

Necessary and unnecessary apps and startup programs?

See this is ANOTHER MYTH...but by the same token, WHY do I hear stories of if there's something wrong with a MAC, you have to reinstall THE WHOLE OS?

I'm not seeing a clear winner here....

You know what? He'd be probably one of the ones who could give good insight on this...

Particularly, WHY he bought a MAC?

Was it STRICTLY for DJ'ing? or did he need/want it for something else, and it just so happened to be his Laptop of choice...

Also, to take into account the "Ease" of setup on the fly, and if that's truly the case, and if he could have achieved the SAME THING if he would have brought his Windows Laptop...

Fyi, there is no -1 buffer. The lowest is 2.

On a mac. Nm

mines buffers on .0001, its on serato special edition 2.333333

I just moved mine to 1 with the offline player. Does it stay at 2 when serato's connected? I'll have to confirm this but it's at 1 right now w/ serato d/c

wow 103 new post and Ive only been gone 2 hours

Its the same with windows. I hate the famous "Windows cannot start because file XXXXXXX.DLL is missing or corrupt." Rather than spend the next 3 hours expanding and copying over files from the install cd I would just collect the data and reinstall the OS. I am an I.T. Manager who maintains a split system with Macs and Windows. And the Macs are easier to maintain by far. Lately there was an update to windows that broke the Environment Variable for %windir%. This caused a lot of machines to have bad icons and shortcuts. They couldn't open any system properties and the machines were rendered useless. That was a fun day at work.

Basically with a Mac your paying for convenience. You pay a premium to not have to drill down into the registry and drivers. To not have to constantly update anti virus. To not have to be weary of links in emails or on websites. To not have to canabalize it to get a low buffer setting. To be able to buy a 3 year warranty to fix most anything (I say most because you can't fix stupidity when you treat it like crap). To be able to add a second HDD in place of your cdrom.

I gladly pay a premium for this.

It's a bug. nm

Ok, now this is a GREAT PERSPECTIVE...however, you're talking about maintaining PC's & MACS in a general USER environment.

I'm not a "General User", by any means, and I know what I'm doing, so the comparison is like apples to oranges...

I don't think I cannibalize the PC to get good buffer settings, (I'm ONE CLICK from the lowest on my HP), so I think that's damn good, and I did no extra stuff to make it happen...

As a matter of fact, I'm probably doing more WRONG stuff on the HP (as far as Serato is concerned), than you can shake a stick at.

But I can appreciate the TRUTHFULNESS of you saying you'd rather PAY for the convenience, and that's cool.

really..i have to dj tonight so when I connect serato i'll find out. I'm using 2.2.0 btw.

I know your not a general user. But a lot of the people who will read this thread are. Just wanted to keep things in perspective for them.

Man, this is about ME right now....lol.

Why are you arguing with people you asked advice from? If you don't want a Mac, don't get a Mac. Seriously, no one cares.

First off, I'm not arguing...

YOU'RE the one who came into MY thread sayin -

So if you don't care GTFOOH.

Mac = stability out the box

Windows = stability out the box*


*after changing a bunch of settings and countless amounts of tweaking to get it right

Just stick with what you know Johnny - If shit goes down mid-gig, you want to be able to fix that shit yourself right there, not have to book in to a Genius bar at 1am.

A friend of mine was always having problems with his PC, and I couldn't work out why he was always having so much shit with his computer. It was like he had just really bad luck with it. I kinda put it down to him going on porn sites or whatever. Didnt see him for a while and next thing I know he's got an iMac. Looking good, I thought. He was gushing about all of this 'just works, never crashes, no viruses' malarky. Next thing I see, it crashes. The thing that pissed me off was, while he was rebooting and waiting for it to load back to desktop, he's still TELLING me they dont crash! WTF lol? I brushed it off anyway. But since then I've seen it crash (reboot) 4 times and I've watched it lock up due to the soundcard freezing for about 5 minutes. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, I've now worked out my friend is just shit with computers. It's got nothing to do with what logo it has.

i been on SL since 2005. I have had 2 crashes. I have always used Mac to DJ. One time was out of no where and the other was wile i connected a thumb drive in to the computer. I later found out that thumb drive was shit.

Thats a great record if u ask me.

Johnny, the video card is Nvidia NVS 3100M. Lenovo T410 Type 2516-CTO. It's been 2 years since I ordered it but I believe I opted for the discrete video card instead of the integrated one.

BOOM! I've got the same one! nVicia 3100M. Lenovo T410 Type 2518-F5U.

Ok, but you've got Windows 7 (Professional) on it right?

Yep, default OS that it came with. Nothing uninstalled.

Werd, how much RAM?

Don't get a Mac [/thread]

Jm this the driver you need?

support.lenovo.com

What problem you have with it now?

2GB. (Win 7 32-bit)

About to get a Mac myself. The most important thing to ME about a Mac is I wont have to buy another one.anytime soon. Another thing is what ELSE do you want to do with it? Video, music production, animation? Apple's are meant for high end applications. Use them for their intended purpose. You can put 16 gigs of ram in the new macbook pro. Going to cop a 13 with a i7 and drop the 16g in it. Going to put Logic, Pro Tools, SSL, Traktor, Photoshop, and Final Cut Pro on it. I will pay the $1150 up front to make $$$ on the back end. And AGAIN I say to you ALL, you should have your business papers and be legit businessmen. Get a Mac, love it/hate it, then write it off on your taxes. Period. Next.

Yep, you care.

Cats always get their chests puffed out over the Internet.

C'mon CMOS...lol.

Of course I have that driver. I download ALL the drivers for XP before I do an XP installation, burn them to a directory structure on a CD/DVD, and copy them to the box after Windows initially gets installed.

Then I add SP3, and start off with the Intel Chipsets and go from there. There is a specific order in which to add drivers initially (Chipsets), so that the rest of the devices are discovered by Windows accordingly.

As a matter of fact, you have to install MS Netframework 3.5 sp2 before you install the video and audio drivers.

It's a 90 step process that I follow, but to answer your question, all I have to do is have the box ready with XP, start Scratchlive, ( don't even need the SL3 box connected), wait until my crates populate, then go to the right and just SCROLL the CRATES using the mouse or what have you, so the songs flash by kinda quick, and BOOM - USB DROPS - Red lights, the whole think stutters.

It's the screen / video driver as they pointed out in my Help thread as they said it's utilizing a lot of cycles or whatever, and said the XP driver is probably not written well, SINCE this Model laptop is SUPPOSED to natively run Windows 7, not really be downgraded to XP.

And all things point that way, since Microsoft, and hardware companies NOW give Windows 7 drivers first preference when writing drivers. Then Vista, then XP.

Hell, they're about to come out with Windows 8 in a min, so it make sense that they'd be lazy on the XP side.

Ok, got 4, (even though Windows XP only recognizes 3...***sigh***).

****Actually, that should say SCROLL THE SONGS within the CRATES****
and BOOM. Dropout...

"Ok, Give Me Some SOLID Reasons of Why I Should Get A MAC"

"It's a 90 step process that I follow"

that's one!

p.s. use whatever you want, both are fine in 2012, but I'm glad I switched to mac so that I never have to do a 90 step install.

actually, I don't know if both are fine, I haven't had a Windows PC in a while, I was just trying to be polite to PC users. :)
i do know that my black macbook works like new and it's old.
and i have no virus protection and surf the web and never had a problem.

I won't front, but that's a script I use to install Windows so I can do it in my sleep and make sure I don't miss anything. But you do have a point if to install an OS on a MAC is just stick in the disk and reboot.

Then login.

I've been using a shitty Toshiba Satellite on Vista w/2 gig memory and 1.6 processor for years. All kinds of programs loaded on it it, wifi & anit virus running at the same time and never had a crash or glitch. Hard drive crashed on me...but that's another story. Ill get a new HD and keep using it. No Mac for me.

This is what I'm TALKING about....

I'm like we can have what we consider "Low End" laptops, and Serato running FINE, but hear that we should "Get A MAC", so I'm wondering WHAT is sooo great about a MAC running Serato, that would cause mad people to be like "Get A MAC".

I just knew it had to perform at least twice as better as a similarly outfitted Windows Laptop, but that's not the case.

It's a SLIGHT improvement over a Windows Laptop (not 1500 bucks worth tho), but people want to PAY for the convenience of not having to deal with drivers, or "configuration issues" with Windows.

So basically for a TECH HEAD, there's no real incentive to go to a MAC (except for Video),
for anybody else that doesn't want (or have the knowhow to be bothered), a MAC is perfect for them.

I get it.

It comes down to working environment of each.
Mac isn't bothered by things that threaten PC on a near constant basis with the end result being a power robbing monkey on its back or a quarantined OEM Windows original operating system rather than the crap that is loaded by Dell Hp, Sony and the rest of them (all)

Now if you want to compare an OEM W7 OS to a Mac that would be a close one ending in personal comfort zone choice.
What Mac CAN do is allow either OS to operate through Bootcamp which I do all of the time to have my PC programs and stuff also. Kind of the best of both worlds and Mac lets me browse the net without worries.
Works for me

^^^THIS is what I'm talking about! A CLEAN install of Windows and you're SKRAIT. If you get WINDOWS PREINSTALLED, you're in a world of trouble.

So as far as MAC OS installs, and MACs in General, I take it's as simple as sticking in the OS, and at the end of the process, that's it...no tweaking, no device drivers, nothing?

One thing that bug me tho, is that if you get an OEM "Licensed" install done (of Windows 7), it registers the MOTHERBOARD with Microsoft, and if you make a major change to your PC, (upgrade the motherboard), you HAVE to purchase another license, as the license is tatooed to the motherboard. You'll pay half the price of the OEM license, but it dies when you make a major update to the PC.

If you get the RETAIL "Licensed" version of Windows 7, you can install it on any PC, but only instance can exist at a time.

DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 how much did you spend on your PC and whats the specs? (if your cool with that0

SPEND?

Zero, these are 2 Laptops provided by my job.

However, I did spend money to update to 4GB of RAM (Windows only sees 3), from 500MB
and purchased a 500GB harddrive for it, and did a clean install of Windows XP Professional.

That one is the HP/Compaq 6710b.
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU
T7100 @ 1.80GHz
1.79 GHz, 2.99 GB of RAM

My job has since changed the vendor to Lenovo as far as us having laptops, so they now gave me a Lenovo T410 which CAME with 4GB of RAM, and a 500GB harddrive with a Corporate image of Windows XP, that I have wiped and again installed a clean version of Windows XP Professional on.

Intel(R) Core(TM)i5 CPU
M 540 @ 2.53GHz
2.53 GHz, 2.98 of RAM.

If you have a PC you also have another option.
Purchase that second Xp Pro Or W7 Pro and load it into a dual boot system on your machine.
This will keep the original os intact and the second JUST for Djing.
Its as simple as picking which one when you power up the PC.
You can spend $ on memory or the $ on a new OS ($130) and be done with the nonsense.

Its the same principle as Bootcamp for mac.

I've configged 3 different Dell machines (business, not crappy Dell Home machines) for Serato, and now recently a 2.4Ghz Core2Duo black MacBook a friend traded to me.

The Dells were, absolutely, more work to configure. One of them sucked with Serato due to the known AMD processor issue (no biggie, it was rescued from the trash, free laptop)...one of them worked flawlessly with Serato after all my tweaking (I spent hours), and I knew its limitations. Only one time during a gig did it scare me, and that was a heat issue. (Screen froze for 1 full minute but music never stopped)... Once I started using a laptop stand it never did that again. Third Dell was an absolute bear to get working, due to a really bizarre issue with the SD card reader causing stupidly-high DPC latency. (If anyone here owns a Latitude E6420, just go into hardware manager and disable the SD-card reader.) Works fine after that.

The MacBook was relatively simple, I followed the few steps for optimization and I've not had any trouble with it. I don't think it's vastly superior to my Windows machines, it does have the spinning pinwheel of death every so often, and I've seen programs crash on it. I've talked to my producer and designer friends (all dedicated MacBook Pro users) and they do experience pinwheel/crash/kernel panic with their machines. (One guy says, "HA! You want me to crash a MacBook Pro? Gimme 1 minute with Photoshop or Illustrator.")

I can't say I've had the experience that seems common on the Serato forums, where a user switches to Apple machines and it's an amazing wonderful change for the better. I have to baby this MacBook less than the Dells, I have switched to the Apple machine as my dedicated DJ laptop, but I'm not sure (even after this experience) that I'd ever have spent $1000-$3000 for a new one.

That's worth mentioning also, the hacks you have to do to force these OS's to do what we want against their will is a total PITA and compounded if you need to restore. (start from scratch unless you have an image)
Whereas, you spend $130 and have what Windows wanted you to have in the first place.
W7 is a Godsend with the pre loaded drivers in comparison to XP.

yup that's it.

then take your clone of your old mac, and drag n drop everything back to your new one (including applications). or just "restore" with a Time Machine backup of your old Mac

My issue isn't a MEMORY issue, it's a video driver for XP issue.

I've got enough memory and things...

I installed Win7 yesterday on a Lenovo E30 Workstation, with that AHCI Sata configured in the BIOS, and it came RIGHT UP! No F6 add Storage Driver during DOS Mode install of WINXP, or that "Prepare" batch file, reboot, go into BIOS, change the Compatibility Mode, etc..

So I'm amped for installing W7 on the Laptop.

Gotchu.

Another option would be to buy one of Samsung's "i" series laptops. Samsung builds most of the components for Apple. They used all the same parts, it just runs on W7. But be warned they cost as much as a mac. Wonder why?

DO NOT do this! Overwriting the operating system with another version used for a different machine may cause huge issues...or may not even operate at all. For instance dumping a laptop clone on an iMac machine will cause all sorts of issues.

Restoring with Time Machine may or may not work. Some software is "serialized" by the macID address that is unique to your machine and may not open afterwards.

It's much better to just reinstall those applications that you need to use.

I'm gonna research that....

So are there 3 partitions or something?
1 for each OS, and another for your data?

I've got a compatible and robust laptop running XP, I just need to get it to Windows 7 Professional, but thanks.

On your osx disc there are instructions for installing Bootcamp. This effectively creates a new partician on which you install a second OS.
Another thing I forgot to mention is you can access files on the other partician. So if if I have downloaded music files to my Mac, I can access and play them on the PC side with no problem.

When you boot up and hear the chimes, press the option key and a prompt comes up for Mac or Windows.
From there its identical to what you're used to on pc.

oops... I've only ever reinstalled n the same computer, and just manually dragged my documents and apps back over from a super duper back up. I assumed Time Machine could help ith this also. my bad.

Lol. That's cute. How is my "chest puffed out?" *I have been working out BTW, thanks for noticing.*

ive had my mac for a little over a year...been a pc user since 1980...
last night i had my first freeze on my MBP
ive had no more than 3 dropouts since purchase (1/2011)
MBP is a solid piece of aluminim!
if i can afford to, i will never buy another pc


altho fuck apple and there mis-managing of employees in china...
i really would like to start buying all american but i dont have $1000000 to go food shopping

Which I will add works perfectly including importing WInclone to restore Bootcamp perfectly.

somehow I dont believe you ran SSl without even a single glitch especially on vista that OS was the worst ever

Why not just dual boot your Lenovo? Win 7 for DJ WInXP for work?

Bootcamp is cool, but i have run into driver issues with it, dealing with 3rd party hardware. Bootcamp seems to bluescreen a lot more than a normal windows 7 machine for me.

I use it for our tradeshows as Mac makes the nicest all in one case (iMac) the PC all in one options are a bit ugly, so we use the iMacs running bootcamp for tradeshows.

Johnny I run my windows 7 enviornment off a external using VMware on my mac runs great. Ive even tested serato on VM and I actually had serato read my library on mac with some tweaking but I got it to work not that Ill ever need to do that but I like trying useless experiments

27.media.tumblr.com

i245.photobucket.com

bahahaha! that's the stupidest shit i've ever seen. i think i'm dumber for having read it.

lol figured that pic would flame this back up so i have something to read while bored at work until 5.

lol

gifs.gifbin.com

well......that mac will last forever with very little maintenance.......now that pc will break down need repair & cost you alot of money in the long run, sh!t the way these gas prices are going that pc is just a plan o waste of money


peddle power baby, mac all the way

wrong quote,

mactard.files.wordpress.com

to the pc guys.......... i hope you like the color blue www.maximumpc.com

True story
When my wife's Dell forgot which drive to boot too because of a dead MB bios battery, I began the research.
So when the process to get to the battery involved less than changing out the MB, I said screw it. I am not kidding, remove the monitor keyboard bottom shield, top cover and so on, just to snap in a $2.00 battery that was the last straw.

Yup, I spent $1500 for a 15 MBP rather than let her spend $400 on another PoC.

And we lived happily ever after...

Funny, seems you mac guys like the color blue as well:

to the pc guys.......... i hope you like the color blue www.maximumpc.com

aww link fail. D'oh!

www.propellerheads.se

why don't you just fucking try one already. get a second-hand mac and if you don't like it, sell it again.

this thread looks like it's on some computer geek forum. there's probably not absolute truth to this, a lot of grey areas and different experiences, so you guys will never agree over technical arguments. it's not gonna happen regardless cuz people don't like to admit they're wrong to begin in general.

just smoke a lil' sumfin sumfin and relax yo

*...to begin WITH in general.

I smoked a lil' sumfin sumfin already

+100000 yall up in here actin like ur gettin commission on the sale lol

I swear to you, never a single problem. No drop outs, no freezing nada. I need to holla to you though bro. You are in the DC area. Im going to do buy a new hard drive for my shitty Toshiba and need a clean install. lol

I gota admit im havin a problem believing that shit too.......and if its true, serato Devs need to analyze that joint an maybe do some reverse engineering or something to recreate it. Did you modify or tweak it in any way ?

Nope nothing. I used to wait for the problems to happen because of all the horror stories people had with Vista. Guess I was the lucky one. It happens. Just like some people who buy shitty gear that lasts forever.

Good to know....

I'm sure all the boys at the gym appreciate that you've "been workign out BTW"....

LOL..

Uh oh...

No no, I'm quite sure you've reached your maximum level of DUMBNESS wayyyy before you read that....

no but your wife sure does. ;)

true dat. reading your dumbass posts really brings down the IQ points.

Yes, she appreaciates that you've got your chest as big as hers...

And in your case, there wasn't anywhere to go..right?

lol. she is pretty flat-chested isn't she. but that's cool, she got that booty though.

lol, i know you are but what am i? hahaha! you sound like a 12 yo little girl. no wonder you like little boys. :O

Yep, too bad you're a pickle sniffer....that's what that "P" stands for ...right?

You STAY on the "MIC"..right?

Thought so.

really ......we need a thread from reliable users who have been here a while to post their windows laptops that really work out the box with no problems an no modifications.....

lol. you're remedial at best. keep trying. it's okay. i'll wait til you come up with a good one. ;)

Look at you...

Your post made NO sense....as usual...

of course it doesn't make sense to you. lol. dumbass

I can't....I keep underestimating your stupidity, but you always seem to outdo yourself...

Congrats!

You must own a MAC.

hahaha! still waiting.

Let's break it down....





Not even REMOTELY able to attach that to what I said above...

***sigh****

i'm not even gonna take the time to "break it down" you're just too dumb.

Again, you have that girly chest of yours puffed out over the internet....

Man, pull down your skirt, your slip is showing...

oh shit...... paging SIXXXXXXXXXXX

Of course because even YOU see how DUMB you are...

And that's a feat that many can't admit...

THANKS!

lol. you stay obsessed with my chest don't you? i know you like little boys, but i think i'm a bit too old for your taste, chester.

hahaha! look who's not making sense. talking in circles as usual. you're like a dog chasing her tail.

Ok, here.... www.djjohnnym.com

We know, we know.....

***sigh***

*yawn*
still waiting...

They are both in the zone...your post got lost in between.

ANOTHER johnny discussion takes a turn towards the gutter

Waiting for what? You've been sonned... www.djjohnnym.com

Yep, were were having a MEANINGFUL discussion, and some cat gets all Metro, and here we are....

osxdaily.com this ones good and i know all have tried it

haha! a legend in your own mind! wow, you really are delusional, aren't you. i'm kind of concerned now. it's kinda sad. :(

daaaaaaaaaaaayum that musta hurt when he woke up

with your track record of shitting on threads, you can take a little beating of your own. lol

Yummy popcorn.

I see the Chester name stuck. lol

nm

What's the matter johnny? Fat got yer tongue?

whats your latency set to?
no lie one of my djs spins with an Acer he bought on sale for like 299, he never gets dropouts, occasionally a flash of the light but thats only been after 2yrs of him having it and his song database getting larger. he hates on me all the time for buying a mac and i cant argue with him, but when going from my mac to his laptop the scratching is a joke, theres so much delay, even worse with my 57 hooked up. also scrolling crates is scary.

and comming from 3 pc's to my mac, honestly i wouldnt go back, well maybe for like a cheap backup but id still probably put OSX on it. My hp ran pretty good for a year, i would get some dropouts some usb lights but it was pretty solid, although i could never really run the latency to 1ms. But after spending what i did on it and the other backup to it, it was deff not worth the headache and insecurity of "what if" - battery life sucked, it was useless after a year you had to run the power adapter and then the stupid lawsuit with nvida and the vid cards on them, they never made it right, also the weight was ridic compared to my mb. - going on two years strong on this mb and i never have to worry if im going to have a problem, its %100 every time, running multiple apps or multitasking never worries me.

just my .2

Man, let me be clear...


When you said this

You commited SELF ETHER right there...

LMAO @ you trying to prove how "Tough" you are by telling a board full of MEN that you've been working out lately...

So, you should go back and think on that son...

:-)

Here you go, wanting to "Beat" on men...

How about you get back in the gym because your feeble attempt at trying to lock this thread is ...well...

lame.

The real tech reason.... Core Audio drivers route the audio thru the system better, the audio path is more direct. Thats why they are the standard in all professional audio settings.

The consistency of the macs/drivers allow software manufactures to worry about one system, and get it right the 1st time. Windows has so many different drivers for every brand of soundcard, its impossible to not have issues with some setups.

You could always keep your PC and turn it into a Hackintosh! I did this with a netbook, and it was the best thing I did to it. It could barely run Serato with XP/W7, but with OSX it ran fine, and the display worked better.

Hackintosh huh....

Interesting...

Lol! Anyone with eyes and a cerebral cortex could tell that I was joking. You really ARE that dumb aren't you? Wow, just wow.

Yep, right on time...BACKPEDDAL Mode...

***sigh***

I'm glad you're back from your nap. No I don't hope this thread gets locked. I'm having too much fun.

Look I already told you, 1. I'm not into males and 2. I'm not young enough for you, Chester. So stop hitting on me, please.

lol. Talking in circles mode. I really can't tell if you're dumb or senile.

lol, looks like you and Uncle Sixxx have been playing in the "Sandbox" again...No pics please..

This is a family show...

Now BACK to our regularly scheduled programming...

lol @ Uncle Sixxx...

NOW you're getting mad at me cause the name Chester stuck...

I was fine watching from the sidelines. :)


nm

LOL

Nope, as a matter of fact, let me help dude out...

May I Present - HOW TO AVOID TAKING AN "L" ON Serato's FORUM!

So Mike_P & Friends...

When another poster has got you trapped into a corner and is about to deliver that ether, not all hope is lost. Here are some popular techniques to save yourself from taking an "L".

1.) Post Naked Females If the thread gets too dangerous, posting a picture of a naked attractive female could possibly derail the thread and save you. These will cause horny posters to request the name of the female so they can look them up and do what they do with them in the privacy of their own home.Following a picture such as this, fellow posters will join in and post pictures of females they also find attractive.This traffic very often breaks up the debate and saves you from ether.

2.) Say Your Favorite Artist , person,etc>>>>>>>>>> Their Favorite Artist,person, etc. The more ">>>>>>>>" the better. The key here is too exaggerate as much as possible. Claim their favorite artist sucks and they are overrated. Also pretend you don't know much about their favorite artist and claim that you haven't heard their most recent album yet. No matter how the poster responds, insult them by telling them "they caught feelings". This fatal technique, when done correctly, can cause the poster to log out and refrain from posting for weeks.

3.) You are on the internet, therefore you are wrong.

You will be amazed at how you can get away with using this one even though YOU ARE ON THE INTERNET TOO. Many years ago, it was considered lame and geeky to spend any appreciable amount of time on a computer. Now that this technology pervades our world, you would have to be either a hermit or an idiot to avoid using the world wide web to your fullest advantage. Despite this, you can effectively create the illusion that the only real discussion of Hip Hop, politics, or stripper talk takes place in mom n' pop record stores, literally on street corners, or in jail cells. If you are unable to form a logically coherent argument and people seem to be starting to notice, simply accuse your opponents of being on the internet.

If you are called out on using this tactic, lie and say you are browsing from your new 5G phone while in the club, getting head from a model, running for mayor, etc.

4.) Avoid that thread like the plague

Never confront any logically sound opposition to your campaign of stannery. Log out for a few days and brainstorm new topics that will be difficult to link to your previous L's. If questioned on your absence, type "LOL" followed by a made up story about how you have better things to do than post on an internet forum. If this claim is challenged, search your hard drive for old pictures of yourself with your cousin, post them, and say that she is your girlfriend.

5.) If everyone is talking about you it must mean you're a winner

Even though they are sonning you for a laugh and you have become the midget jester of Serato Forums, you may be able to turn this around by proposing that this attention, though it is negative, is a good thing. Do not admit that you spend more time online than just about everybody. Instead, declare that your critics are living in their mothers' basements.

6.) Get Everybody Involved

When you know you're losing the one on one, bring up something that your opponent has said in the past that would be mutually offensive to everyone. This way, the whole thread will begin to clown your enemy on some gang mentality shit. Also, reach for a co-sign from a powerful poster who most people agree with. Sure, you couldn't just take your L like a man, BUT YOU SURVIVED! And now, you can always bring this up in future threads, and re-write history as if you really were the winner.

7.) Post up a funny gif and/or TYPE IN CAPITAL LETTERS SO YOU CAN SHOW YOU MEAN SERIOUS BUSINESS.

This is usully reserved for those with graphic skills and a supreme sense of humor. After you mastered this art you can singlehandedly crawl out of any situation. Lets say a new item is coming out nd the whole world wants it. So two months before the item drops a poster claims to have 15 of said product already. He talks and talks about how dope it is and everyone else is a loser cause they dont have the shit. However when comes time to show and prove the person is ghost. 8 months later the person comes back and gets called out on their bs. Instead of providing proof THEY START A 100 PARAGRAPH RANT FULL OF JOKES AND FUNNY GIFS.Dont let the jedi mind tricks get to you..stay strong and focus on the task at hand.

I hope this helps in your future endeavors to get at me!

No thanks necessary! This was a freebie~!

what the hell has sixxx got to do with anything? lol crazy old man walking in circles and mumbling to himself.

there you go talking again about that "sandbox." you sure go into vivid detail about that "sandbox" and your homo-erotic fantasies and pedophilia. how many kids you got tied up in your "sandbox" in your man/boy-love cave?

please, don't think i'm gonna give you enough credit to read your insane ramblings. hahahaha! it's time to take your meds.

bottom line, you're a weak punchline to a bad joke. [/bodied]

Again, this was on me!

No idea what you're talking about. I can only assume that you're referring to the insane ramblings you posted above. Like I said, I won't be bothered to wade through the delusional content.

I see you're invoking a modified version of #4! Good boy.

Lol. Keep up that healthy fantasy life Johnny. It'll all be over soon.

PS You can't win in a pissing match with an enlarged prostate. Go take ya meds.

You know what, Johnny? Straight up, man, I apologize. I shouldn't be fucking with an OG like you. I don't want to get 'taken out.' In fact I heard about the last kid that you fucked with...Hell there's still an active Amber Alert out. :(

Apology accepted. Now scram kid, ya bodder me.

Lol. Before you accept you should google Amber Alert. ;)

No.

There once was a time when this thread,
was informative; worth being read.
but as shown in the past,
that intent cannot last,
so commence with the insults instead.

<untracking>

NO! COME BACK! He's gone! ;-)

Hahaha! Awesome. :)

I'm still here. ;)

Hey Johhny,
From my experience Windows 7 JUST WORKS. But you are asking a loaded question, because you have a free thinkpad 410 (from work) vs buying a new macbook pro for DJ. What I would do, (if work allows) is pop in an 120gig intel solid state drive and 8 gigs of ram in that work machine. Buy a clean copy of win7 64 and dual boot the work machine. Use your optical drive bay as a a storage drive slot.

Keep the old hard drive for work storage, and buy(use) a new hard drive for music. So when you leave work you slide in your music drive and boot to win 7 and experience a gig ready ready workhorse. Wake up the next day, slide out your music drive and replace with work storage drive and boot to xp. Rinse and repeat. For 400 bucks you can have the benefits of a screaming SSD modern computer.

I think I read a rumor that microsoft will stop supporting XP in 2014. XP came out in 2001, it is time to let it die.

I use both Mac Pro and Sony Vaio. My Mac is much more stable and responsive ,USB buffer is always set to 0 with no dropouts or glitches. My Vaio is more prone to dropouts.
I bought the Mac Pro for use with Serato Video.

Thank you sir! I loaded Win 7 on the laptop last night, and - just like you said, it just worked. I hadn't even added the drivers necessary to tweak it because Lenovo's site went on maintenance last night...but I'm up now getting those drivers.

I have to say, I'm very impressed with the initial install of Win7.

Oh, and up until this whole video glitch thing, I was popping in a HD exclusively for work, and a harddrive exclusively for DJ'ing...

Now I'll eventually make the WIN7 drive the one for DJ'ing.

And yep, XP is on it's way out, as I understand Windows 8 is slated to be "Released" this summer....

Wow, really @ "0"? Nice.

Again, there is no such thing as zero on a mac.

Not even 1...... It's 2. That is the lowest possible number
you can go because of the nature of the beast.

Don't believe me? Ask Konix.

Ok, I'm looking at the Buffer settings now on version 1.9.2, and I've got mine on 2 with the HP, and the lowest it can go is one click lower to "1".

Yes. On a PC you can go to 1...

On a Mac you can go to 2...

It's because of the structure of the OS....

Nothing Serato can do about that... (On the Apple side)

nm

So isn't that a strike against MAC? Not being able to go down to the lowest USB Buffer setting of 1?

Not really because it doesn't make a difference one way or another. If you can scratch on a PC with a buffer of 1 and on a Mac with the buffer of 2 and tell me how different it feels, you win a prize. It's impossible.

"So isn't that a strike against MAC? Not being able to go down to the lowest USB Buffer setting of 1?"

Btw, you're still not understanding. 2 IS the lowest USB buffer setting on a Mac. It's just a number. What Serato should've done is identify the lowest setting on the mac and call that 1....

Kinda like how forever Serato was using the wrong decibels on the audio. Then, all of a sudden everyone's audio changed with one version upgrade. nm

Shit.... here's the actual answer. I guess I wasn't taking into consideration that I still have a 57...

So, here are the facts. What I've said is right... but only because I own a 57.

"SL 1 and TTM 57SL do not work with a USB buffer setting of 1 on Mac OS X

When using the SL 1 or TTM 57SL on Mac, Scratch Live does not work with a USB buffer setting of 1 (the minimum). This issue is due to limitations of Mac OS X and how it handles USB 1.1 audio devices.

Note: This problem does not effect the SL 2, SL 3, SL 4 and Sixty-Eight, as they are USB 2.0 devices.
Did you find this useful? Yes No


Taken from here: serato.com

So, as you can see, that can't be a strike against Mac. It's actually a strike against USB 1.1 devices.

Ok, take into account I'm using an SL3, and a PC, I can theoretically achive a "1".

Yes. Someone with a Mac and SL3 can also achieve a 1.

I thought we were talking about Macs. lol

Man you know I ain't worried about MACs....:-D

Johnny,

I'm glad you're enjoying WINDOWS 7. Everyone wants to hate on PC because WIN 7 didn't debut until 2009 (most were hesitant after VISTA). Your only other stable supported choice was XP from 2001. What was Mac running in 2001??? You know that's not supported anymore. The Vista 64 bit change over gave alot of PC's a terrible rep (win 7 should have been a free upgrade to vista) at the same time Mac switched to using intel chipsets making them a viable alternative.

WINDOWS 7 ROCKS the house, and is just as stable(if not more as of late) as OSX. My sleek 14'' $600 windows 7 machine impressive all my friends with ipads all of the free functionality I have. I can make calls/ texts with google voice while streaming Dj mixes plugged into their tv with HDMI. I can stream free movies/tv with divx web player and flash while having 20 browser tabs open, and jamming free albums from spotify. I have sick slide shows that act as my desktop background that output on the big screen. Best of all I haven't paid a dime..... I even have free angry birds:)

And yes a MACBOOK PRO can do all of the same things but my laptop costs less than what others spent on their IPad or Iphone. When I plug an any printer or peripheral things JUST WORK with drivers just automatically downloading.

All in all I would rather roll to mobile a gig with 2 $600 dollar WIN 7 machines than one $1200 OSX rig. Bridezilla dont care about kernal panics with you new version of jungle cats.

I didn't read the whole thread (I know that's forum suicide but it is what it is)



This. Johnny's an I.T. if I'm correct, there are computer illiterates who wave the Mac flag based on the slogan that it "just works" when the truth is there are Macs that fuck up too. When you're well versed in computers you don't have all these problems that the "PCs suck I haz da Mac" users have.

I'm an intermediate computer user and don't have half the knowledge an I.T. would and have used both. Other than certain programs that don't work on both platforms, I've never been able to justify the difference so I can't imagine a professional being that hard sold on the difference






Windows 7 is great.

I will admit this though, I bought video SL and it works, but running it on a PC with a screen capture is not good. Who knows what the new Serato video will bring.

Yo, I just realized that I installed the 32bit version of WIN 7, and was rockin' 3GB of RAM seen by the OS.

Wiped that out real quick, installed the 64 BIT, and just downloaded the major 64 bit version drivers, and man let me tell you...

THIS SH*T is PHENOMINAL...Werd up, I didn't think a Windows system could load up THAT DAMN EASY...

I'm on my way to a gig now, but tomorrow it's ON like popcorn...

I do believe my issue has been resolved....I can even see 4GB being used by the OS...

Oh man, it's about to go down....

64 bit WIN 7 is the BOMB. I'm rockin a cheap 14'' Thinkpad Edge I3 intel with 4 gigs of ram and regular hard drive. If you want to take it to the next level (from what I've seen) pop in an intel solid state drive and 8 gigs of ram. You might not need that though if you just on 1.9.2.

I aint hatin' on on MACS, if you want a discrete graphics card and can work mostly in MAC OSX its a fine choice. But to say that OSX is somehow inherently better than WIN 7, I just don't believe it. I'd rather have a T or W series Thinkpad or HP ELITEBOOK , they have certified workstation graphics cards for architecture and engineering.

They use Thinkpads on the international space station and all kinds of F'up environments. I don't want to join a cult, or have computer jewelry, but I want a rugged computer that I can spill shit on, drop a few times... and if I have to.... beat somebody up with the damm computer if shit goes down. I dont want to be all worried about scratchin' my pretty case or dropin beers on it on the keyboard.

^^^^LOL..... imma shut up and quit try to make the old man see the light.... carry on

welcome to the forum...

Hey....if MACS were cheaper than PC's I'd rock one with out hesitation. First I'd buy some sort of case armor/ keyboard cover before I took it out in the wild though.

I will laugh at the day when MACS have 50% of the market share and all of the sudden half the viruses, spyware, malware etc are written to attack the "click happy"people who have no idea how or why they should defend themselves.

Lol - man you taking this "old school cat" thing too far - I can't believe you just now parting with XP and updating to win 7 :)

I refuse to read all this shit.

Don't take anyone's word for it. Apple changed their return policy years ago to no restocking fee. Go buy one, use it for about 3 weeks and form your own opinion. You'll hate it the first week, start to come around the second week and you might start to change your mind by the 3rd.

Man, there are a few reasons why....

First the corporation I work for is 2 OS's behind...I started with them in 2001, and they were JUST moving to Windows 2000 off of 95...not even 98SE...

So I'm CONSTANTLY support XP from a Corporate standpoint, and they only reason they're even considering moving to WIN 7 is because we're obligated to support OS not more than 2 generations old. So for right now, that means Vista and XP.

"Relatively" soon, Windows 8 will be out, and that pushes XP off the support spectrum, and they HAVE to either pick up VISTA, (which we never will), or Win 7.

I've also had bad experiences with Vista, and all my "Personal" users had me downgrade their PC's to XP, so there we go.

Plus I"ve got XP on all PC's and laptops in the house, and they all ran like champs...

Oh, and I have an XP Volume License, so I could install XP at my leisure.

So, you know Microsoft tighted up their Licensing scheme, so I would have been forced to buy, say 4 or 5 Win 7 Professional ones for home, and that was not at the top of my priority list...

So I was able to recently acquire a Volume License for Win 7 (32 & 64 BIT), and I'm off to the races...

And that this time it would be Vista and XP.

Ha, I don't need you to read ALL of it, but answer this below...

I'm go say it this way

If you go to clubs and always see the DJ with a mac ask them why.

You will get the same answer "Stability"

And that's the truth. Some do crash but most of it is user error.

I had mines crash 2 weeks ago. my friend was djing and his hard drive went to sleep and I was doing Video. when he got on he was searching for a song tried to load it up and nothing.
The wheel came and he just keep pushing trying to load it. I was at the bar when he called me.
But I heard him play the same song again and the promoter was like what the fuck he doing.

I get the find out what he did and had to throw in a premixed CD. and eject his hd.

So really it didn't crash I rebooted it not thinking about force close ssl. I always spin with the ssl window minimized so I can force close if the ball comes. this has save me a lot.

You can also Control/tab back to finder which gets your dock back.

More often crashes are confused with hangs which if given time can correct.
But if you enter a repeat command, it could just as easy call it a night.

That's still not telling me anything.

I needed to know specifically from people who are WELL VERSED in Windows, why they went to a MAC, and basically the answer is CONVENIENCE, not really stability, unless you're talking video.

Use a Windows PC if that's what you're used to and happy with, and you're not doing video.

/end thread.

Just find out for yourself Johnny. You gonna let a bunch of forum names tell you what to do?

Obviously you will not be happy until you see for yourself. Just go buy a basic 13" refurb for a$1000 and see what it is all about.

I know how to tweak a PC too, I would rather spend my time mixing.
Time = money.


I use a Mac because it allows me more time to mix, network, and the cream of the crop is more time with my family. That is why 5 years later I have never looked back to a windows computer. It paid for itself so many times over. I've also never had an issue with Serato running right and that is on 5 different macs always running the latest and greatest features and gear and even beta versions.

OK JM, so i gave u the tech side of things in and earlier post. 6 years and 2 macs later i will probably never buy another pc. My work pc laptop and desktop always have issues and the only thing i do is work related stuff no porn or questionable websites and still all kind of bs happens to my pc's. Now my mac g4 powerbook(8 yrs old) still runs everything fairly well, and it does not have any of the stability problems that my work pc's have. Now my macbook is a flawless beast and makes my NAVY purchased top of the line state of the art maxed out pc's seem kinda prehistoric in the stability relm. The only area the pc beat both my macs was speed ONLY and thats because they have far higher specs.

I asked the question because just because you're "used to" using a product, doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a better option out there.

I'm just trying to gauge how much of a performance boost for 1500 bucks more, will I get using a MAC vs. a PC.

Would you consider yourself Technically Savvy on say, the Windows Drivers side of things?

Up until XP

lol, noted...

Wow, first I kinda skimmed over this, but you make a VERY valid point as I sit here and am STILL DOWNLOADING all the WIN 7 drivers - 32 & 64...

Point well received - (NM)

What I will say about my mac is...I like being able to browse the internet while I'm DJing if it's a boring venue. I do a lounge gig on Thursdays, and while the music I get to play is dope, it can get boring watching people eat tapas and tapping their feet to the vibe, so I browse facebook, the forums, etc.

Part of what kept my HP problem free for 6 years of 4 gigs a week was not going on the internet except for dropbox 99% of the time.

Ok, I'm able to browse on the internet on my HP with no problem, but I don't make a habit of it...

Why don't you make a habit of it?

C'mon dude, you're acting as if you have to tweak a PC everyday, you do it once and that's it.



HAHAHAHA

You're right, us PC users don't have time to do any of that because tweaking our computers is a full time job. Damn PC's.









My PC is on 24/7, visits porn sites and other shady spots and I don't have so much as a hiccup. I don't know what you guys do to your PC's that make it sound like they're the worst things on earth. If they were all as bad as some of you make them out to be they would never sell.

BTW Dub I'm just busting your balls (no homo, no misquote, no oranges, no shirt no shoes no service, Dawn Penn, No, No, No)

You never apologize when you are speaking the truth.. :)

True dat

Because I'm MOSTLY busy DJ'ing.... :-D

Mac's have a 5 hr battery when fully charged. It takes bout an hr or more to fully charge a Mac...Windows = Forever and you usually have to buy a new battery to last that long.

Yeah that was me who bought one hours before a show. It worked out fine. I had the PC there, but there were driver issues.

I was torn between a MacBook which was unknown to me and a dell at the time. Something about the dell steered me towards the Mac. Plus I was a little curious. Fast forward years later and there are NO windows machines at the house. Only in a VM because I can use the VM for work, but its not completely necessary. I tunnel in via VPN within the VM and that system will be on my work network while the hosting Mac will be on my home network. But whatever....

Bottom line is I spend much less time maintaining the Macs I have at home. Very little time if any at all. When I'm at work, I'm working in windows based systems (for the most part). When I'm at home, there is no "work" to be done for my home systems. I can't imagine having a family and wasting time maintaining windows systems at home like I used to.

Strictly for DJing? Hell no. That's a waste of money. Can you do the same stuff on both? Skill wize yeah. Macs just don't work well with all webcams. When there is a can that does work well with a Mac it looks great. Other than that, there are always alternatives to doing certain tasks. Neither will help you dj better.

Dizzam...

Thanks bro, and to errybody that contributed.....

and there you have it...

I think the points that stand out the most and that I've seen true for the most part are these:

"I had the PC there, but there were driver issues."

For some reason, I always see window users with driver issues. I'm not saying all the time, but this is a major drawback for me.

and this one rings true to me too:

"Bottom line is I spend much less time maintaining the Macs I have at home. Very little time if any at all."

Same here... with family and kids and all, I really never touch my mac unless I have to DJ, design something or whatever. Once I buy it and install whatever programs I need, you never again see me "tweaking" stuff to make something work.

nm

"You're right, us PC users don't have time to do any of that because tweaking our computers is a full time job. Damn PC's."

You may be laughing but you know it's true to a sense. Just ask yourself how many times you've had to deal with tweaking your computer for whatever reason. Say, from the time you buy it, to the time you get rid of it.

And then, the less you know about it, the more you will run into issues. But, look at JohnnyM. He knows his stuff and he's still spending hours on XP drivers. Yeah, it's XP... but come on. :)

nm

8:26 PM pacific time... Johnnym still up tweakin WINDOWS7 ???

No actually it's WIN 7, and I'm spending WAY too much time figuring out the last 2 drivers for devices.

Keep in mind, once I get the right drivers installed in the right order, everything is usually gravy, but I'm gonna have a general learning curve for the 64 BIT angle too....

So for the short term, my issue will be solved via Windows 7.

No rush to get to a MAC, from a PERFORMANCE standpoint, but will definitely get there ultimately.

Man, it is what it is...

LOL... Right now on my MAC 1. analyzing tracks in SSL 2. Lurking in Stickam 3. facebooking
4. organizing tracks in itunes 5. making fun of JM on serato forums all @ the same time with no issues

its pretty simple - the software works better with a Mac, its a plug n play deal - buy mac/turn it on/install serato and never look back. im not gonna say it didnt work pretty good on my pc laptops but the scenarios in my head were always like...am i gonna get a drop out...will i have problems with too many background services running...should i turn off the internet...ya i probably should...o shit did i leave on bluetooth...and then the battery never holding a charge...what happens when its unplugged for 10mins - it f'n dies on you (how much are batteries....100 f dollars)

my mac ... o man im running serato and ableton at time while doing the bridge - o crap im recording at the same time....hey everybody look at this *insert porn site* , let me play it over the mic for the whole club to enjoy - o why not skype while im mixing video live....

i could go on and on ...really just get your hands on one and spin for a few months and see if it doesn't change your mind. would i spend 2500 on a new mac every time they release a new version to watch porn/play a few games and use for work or school...no that was pc's are for

Ummm....I'm configuring WIN7 64bit for the 1st time, so by my nature, it's something that's gonna take time, because I like it perfect...BTW, just resolved the driver issue, now I'm gonna wipe the whole thing and do it again...

SEE

Man, I'm about knowing my OS through and through...(NM).

Enjoy...lol

Yeah, TOMORROW, but I needed to get over that hump tonight, cuz it was buggin me...

Go get a Mac.... I'll sell you one of mine, lol...

Dam Your about to wipe it and do it again. wheeewww your good. I would of just said fuck it mac here i come.

Nope, that's how you sharpen the skills....

Johnny,

I hope your are finding your way around WIN 7.

Check out this article and script to easily optimize windows from the tech tools website:

www.djtechtools.com

Then run DPC latency checker from here:

www.thesycon.de


These are some easy tools to manage background services and actually see what your computer's latency is. Yes a Mac is much easier out of the box, but if you already have a modern PC's for work I see no need to upgrade if you aren't doing video and have experience with computers.

Mine is an 09 with the power options maxed.
When I bought it, the hr rating was 7, unplugging now I have 4.34hrs left and its climbing.

Not sure if this is battery technology, charging controls in the mac or a combination of both.
Never had a PC battery last an hour at this point in its life.

I've had this completely apart to change a keyboard, compared to my wife's Dell I wrote about, a breeze to work on and even clean fans etc...

oh...and its aluminum, not plastic

best computer I've ever owned or built