so is this where we talk about itch 2.0 ???

LoL.. :.)

I luv your wit kraal... ;-)

Why not? Every other thread gets hijacked!!!

I still think those EFXs buttons on the NS7 would have been a killer running from the Macbook Pro! Ha ha ha! :) At least I am half on topic...

I have both and Mac is flawless for me were as my pc was crap!
on Mac : imac 3.06, 4gb ram, 256 vram and 500gb HD with bluetooth keyboard and mouse and wireless internet. My pc was a Rain livebook 2.53 intel"penryn"core 2 duo also with 4gb ram, 512 vram, 320gb HD and supposedly designed for pro audio and the "senior tech" tweaked it for perfection. verdict was iMac wins! image was nice and did not fail one bit on 1ms latency. on pc the display was choppy and hang up on latency set at 5ms. I tried to xp pro, vista 32 business and win7 pro. nothing worked. PLus the display sucked on pc

DJ_Bany, that's what I'm talking about.

Mac=1
PC=0

who gives a sh*t....?

Exactly! People here use every other topic and turn it into a Mac Vs. PC Debate, but when given the chance to do it separately, who gives a sh*t?

Let those topics be what they are. You wanna debate which OS is better or who has a bigger penis, then do it here...

Yeah i give a shit, MAC ROCKSSS Fuck PC!

Mac=2
PC=0

lol u guys. vram is actually memory consumed either from ur hard drive or from ur ram to virtually create video memory. if im understanding correctly that that is the kind of video memory you had. correct? ur "senior guy" should have known this. it will strain the system unnecessarily. but sure trust your "senior guy". I find it hard to believe he knows a lot =) good bye.

at the end use what works for you. but dont say Win based computers are crap or that Mac is better because it varies with users.. I have yet to get me a mac so until I get one I cant compare. yet my Win has never left me short of expectations and delivers a lot for the buck. so in my experience I have to score on you.

mac=2
Win=1

yes, Win. not pc... macs are pc's too.

Glad somebody finally pointed that out. Like trying to have a Mercedes vs cars debate.

this is turning more into a bias vs bias debate

GO LINUX!!!!! that's the best... peoples OS

Itch on LINUX... we can only hope.

hope=speculate :)

@ topic

Best site for Apple news/ objective opinions and Microsoft/Dell/Palm/Google/Nokia well deserved bashing --> www.macdailynews.com

:-)

Sorry guy's I was referring to video card mem.

Also, I tried my damdist to crash this imac by loading doubles constantly and tweaking knobs like crazy and scratching like a mad man!! all this while on the internet two displays and NS7 plugged into hub from 2nd monitor! I was only able to get to the center of the cpu meter! All I need now is a macbook!! But i will use my imac for gigs if i have too.

bany u got ur Win laptop still? u live in NYC area I desperately need a laptop ASAP! =) im serious... =)

thanks =)

I have both PC and Mac. I was against Mac up to about 2008 until my PCs started hanging and wouldn't be able to handle work loads. I tried Mac and haven't looked back...I now own 4 plus a PowerBook. The Macs work perfectly with Itch and I don't worry about crashes.

Mac +1

Sorry bro don't live there anymore but I still rep the NYC. That laptop is getn sent back asap! Peace!

I have the feeling this thread should be a hit somehow, maybe not..

There beat that stupid Gates hahahahahahaha Total Ownage!

Mac +1

This is the man who runs Microsoft since 10 years:

monkey dance: Watchwww.youtube.com
selling Windows 1.0: Watchwww.youtube.com
developers! Watchwww.youtube.com
laughs at the iPhone: Watchwww.youtube.com
laughs at Google Chrome OS: Watchwww.youtube.com

No wonder Microsoft market value dropped 50% in the last 10 years, while Apple gained some 1000% (yes, one-thousand-percent).

+1 for Mac again

Cant wait for the Pc Fan Crew to add some meat on this hahahahahah

arstechnica.com

blogs.computerworld.com

There's some. Even with constant attacks from spyware geniuses Windows still controls the market by far. Now you can argue all you want. Windows is open to all computer manufactures, (making it a LOT harder for Microsoft to develop than Apple can ever dream) (for now anyways), it controls the biggest market share, and I have people telling me how they are dissing the I-phone to try the Android so...

"I have 4 words for you. I love this company!"
"Developers, developers developers, developers!"

When it comes down to reality, MAc is for either people who don't have a clue about OS's and how to avoid spyware and threats (porn watchers) or people who want to have the *shiniest or both.

I don't care who wins or whatever I just don't like ppl like you saying MAc is better cuz it is not... you are cutting into my business by scaring bar and club owners into thinking if I own Windows I risk crapping the show mid way which is not true so please stop.

BTW I use Google Chrome now..

I don't care if Apple grows really, the thing is the more Mac's out there the higher the risk there will be for users to get spyware invaded... honest.

I use Chrome Browser. not the OS... The OS is targeted to once again people who want basic control over a device.. avoiding threats by having a "flah" OS... nothing special just not the same as Windows.. yet we will have to see the final product.

Might be good/

This is awesome, but ANY DEVICE CAN BE CAPABLE!!!

Thank god they created an internet czar in the US. Imagine the bad things that could be done remote control. Already can be done.,.. eeeeeshhh

Watchwww.youtube.com

"I have 4 words for you. Beach ball of hell!"

I don't actually EVER get blue screens... Except if the drivers from the specific device are not Windows 7

windows7.iyogi.net

www.microsoft.com

lol notice how we used. "Death and hell" hahahaha

dang my spelling... I meant *NEVER and Windows 7 signed... =)

:-P I guess czar is the only one using a pc!

But i got to admit, i never got a BSOD with Win 7.

and you are running Itch beta driver... not even signed yet...

It is natural that software gets better or worse with time.. In my honest opinion Windows has only gotten better. It is not windows itself.. it is the drivers that cause the problems..

Take Mac OS for example. If there is a piece of hardware I want to use. I might not be able to because Mac might not support it, So i can hack it and make Mac believe it is ok but I will be running the risk to crash the OS..

Yea unfortunately many people specially business owners reading forums like this encounter people saying Windows sucks just because it doesn't work for them. )They don't know how to work with it..) and it creates the false sense that Mac is better so people might opt to take the plunge and get a Mac just to not have to explain to people that Windows is OKAY! if you know what you're doing..

czar, I love you man, no homo, but you should let other people in the conversation. Otherwise you are just talking to yourself and only crazy people talk to themselves.

I'll try to address everything in a single post next time..

I said a millions times that i work in IT and god knows i know my way around a pc. I didn't try to hide behind osx cause i tough it was easier... or to not get any spyware... That's the most ridiculous comments ive seen on here so far. I use a pc everyday at work and we support 3000+ users at my branch and about 15 000 World Wide.

Ive said it before, since ive moved to mac all my problems disappeared. I use only Mac computers at home since that's the only place i do production and djing and of course in clubs.

Even at my work place (I work for one of the biggest game company in the world) All the audio designers and sound engineer are all working on Mac computers, the Sound Studio also is fully setup with Mac Pro's and Pro Tool's HD and honestly they will never change that setup for a pc's. Pro Audio works best with Mac's and that's a fact! It's an Industry Standard and even all the links and post you can find wont change that! Even our Motion Capture Studio is all setup with Mac's!

To browse the web, check emails, do some excel spreadsheet and even play game's perhaps a pc would be more suited for those, either way i got iWorks and even Office for mac that is as good as on pc with the exact same functions... So yeah to play games i got to admit a PC would be the best choice.

Either way we need to compare Apple's with Apple's and Oranges with Oranges not Potatoes and Kiwi's!

Take 2 Computer side by side, with same specs and same configuration, one pc and one mac. For Pro Audio, Serato, Films, Editing and of course any Graphics work load... The MAC WILL OWN on every Level.

For gaming it's a different story!

NUFF SAID!

I think CZAR is taking this to personally and i honestly think that all of this is a total waste of time to continue to argue on those matters.

PS: Man how old you... it's just that sometimes i get the impression am talking with a Kid!

Hey czar i tried to do it and with some help from Rainrecordings. My problem was that I dropped alot more money on that livebook lappy and it still had hang up. That tech probably had no idea but the bottom line is that he had to turn off every single process and some just to get it to be okay. I am surprised he didn't tell me to pull the battery out! C'mon now On my cheapest iMac i can do whatever I want while i'm running itch. It just does not make sense . I just use a pc to back up my movies now since macdaripper takes like an hour!

Watchwww.youtube.com

hahah it's so late here and I should be sleeping. came for Facebook to do a quick status and couldn't resist checking the forum. LOL great video! hahaha crazy =)

hmmmm did the guy not know how to use Win? =D

Cerla def takes the cake and the icing too, sorry break maybe next time =D

LOL!!!!!!!!! The end made me laugh. "things gonna change?" "I hope so dude" hahahahahha

Very very good videos... :-D

Im buying A, Mac Book Pro Should I Get 13" or 15"

@ Hit Hard

hold on, wait until Apple announces the new i7 models (in a few days)

Yeah same for me, 15in is perfect for gig and light work.

breakmixer that was cool

mac +1
pc = 0

i was a pc head for a long time until using ITCH it wouldn't run on my laptop it ran fine on my AMD desktop but the lack of consistency forced me to buy the mac now i love it and use it for more than just ITCH.

It would be
pc +1
mac - 1

if you go bang for the buck though and take ITCH out of the equation.

I am getting my first Mac on Friday (yes!) A new Macbook Pro 15 inch

+1 Mac
-1 Windows

I'm just going to post this rant here because readers should know this:

Those that prefer Windows will use Windows. Those that like MacOs will go MacOs. Those that don't want to learn how to tweak the intricacies of Windows should buy a Mac because it runs DJ and Music apps well its default configuration.

Both Windows and MacOS can crash and be unstable if not maintained or abused.

While Apple tends to use higher quality components, Windows vendors can be just as, if not more, expensive than Apple is.

Windows and MacOS are both great products.

Buy what you like.

-KLH

hey KLH

this is not the thread for a civil, balanced discussion, but for the bloody FIGHT! :-D

(the idea is to keep the other threads clean, isn't it? :)

Oh snap! I misread it. I jumped here after seeing that other one.

If that's the case, IT'S ON!

Macs suck raw ass because they're not Windows and they don't have files that end in three letters!

Take that, bishes.

-KLH

@ KLH

actually, I'm not bashing Windows anymore because it's like shooting an ambulance: too easy, no fun, and unfair, given the stark Mac supremacy (not talking about market share, obviously, but product and user experience).

I just can't help myself to address "somebody's" bullshit thrown to Macs based on mid-90's Apple facts, and Microsoft-sponsored FUD.

I am glad I started all this...Go Danny, Go Danny, Go Danny.

And yes, in case you haven't figured it out, my name is Danny. I can just picture someone as they read this, "oh, MusicDan-Danny, I get it!

Dammit, that's just not going to work DjCerla. Maybe if you used a two-button mouse, you could come up with something witty.

Actually, I can't go there because your English is better than mine.

-KLH

go Danny, high five! But we need more blood here, we lack a serious, methodical Windows-basher to fire things up.

PS: I have a 3 buttons Logitech

Ok. Here I go.

Macholes just WISH that they could run programs like Cakewalk and still had access to FireWire, Blu-Ray Players, and REAL MS Office apps. But if we're really going to go there, let's talk OS backward compatibility.

You KNOW Apple is going to come out with its next OS that will leave Snow Leopard users out in the dust. It's going to cost "only" $100 and make all of you Macholes REPLACE your precious MBP with something new - like the MacBook "Ultra."

Then what'll happen? You'll finally see that Uncle Bill has your back. All you have to do is run Windows Next (v8) ON YOUR MBPs and you'll be okay!

Until then, enjoy your day in the sun. Enjoy the ticking clock as it counts down towards inevitability. Enjoy your two USB ports. Enjoy Flash while you can.

... while you can.

-KLH

Can someone tell us how much Snow Leopard costs and how much Win 7 costs?

Can someone tell us how many GBs they saved installing Snow Leopard and how many GBs they saved installing Win 7?

Hey, who's side are you on, MusicDan?

Price implies value. Win7 is more expensive because it's a (*ahem*) true update of Vista. Snow Leopard is just an incremental upgrade...

(I don't know how much longer I can argue this.)

-KLH

Just a thought (not directed at you KLH "They say ignorance's a blessing but in this case it's killing you!"

KHL, I am on Mac's side. You couldn't tell? But I have nothing against windows users, and I have nothing against you, maybe just a little bit against czar. I'm just kidding, czar and I have a Love/Hate Relationship, NO HOMO.

But when you believe in something you defend it, no? I believe in Mac, I have since 2004 when I got my first PowerBook.

I got a magic Mouse no more stupid buttons! Take That PC!

Well, I'm running dry with reasons why Windows is better. I suppose that I can only argue that with knowledge of Windows, it can perform just as well as MacOS.

The problem that I see with most DJs, is that it's just too easy to install 8 million things in Internet Explorer, and then you "need to have" MS Office, and you also "need" PhotoShop, and throw a few games on there, and THEN there's a problem with ITCH, right?

I blame users, not the OS.

-KLH

Most of issues are always at 6 inch of the screen!

OK - here's a plus for Windows. Most IT professionals are assigned a Windows laptop. For around ~$100, you can replace the laptop's hard drive with one almost twice as big and partition it so that ITCH has it's own Windows install AND the job has it's own Windows install as well.

Benefit is a free laptop with a dedicated ITCH environment. Cost is ~$100. Better than a MBP? Only financially. Good enough to run ITCH? Yep!

-KLH

Will never be as sexy as my MBP hehehe :-P

Tru dat, but did I mention that work PCs come with EXCELLENT support?

-KLH

Yeah i got Apple Care, if something happens to my Mac i just drop it at the store and they fix. Theres also the Genious bar at Apple store where you can actually sit down with a tech and learn stuff kinda like one on one sessions.

KLH I feel you bro. You got some good points but dam my MBP is frickin' gorgeous. Like I keep saying "It's like a work of art". Every time I touch it I can't believe they made something this powerful, yet so dam sexy... Oh crap I just got wood!!! ;-)

breakmixer u r living in the past regarding the share dll's.. sorry..

I think in my case it was mostly part of the learning curve but I respect your opinion.

Are you a PC? Show your BSODs love with a nice tattoo -----> www.blogcdn.com

^ Too funny.

That's it! I'm done arguing for Windows. At the end of the day, I maintain what I said (way) above:



-KLH

More Microsoft havoc: security patch results in BSOD, stops Windows from booting: arstechnica.com

Epic Fail for Windows

Mac: +5
PC: -5

cerla u seem to worry about windows way too much =D (joke)

bring me actual OS problems not security flaws. I want to see the Windows kernel having other than "security" flaws. It is easy to talk from the side that doesn't have to deal with new threats every day. For DJ'ing I'm not worried cause I dont use the lappy online so security threats are the least of my worries =)

(I picture you Cerla typing "Windows kernel flaws" into google right now.) =D

Check this.
support.apple.com

"Mac OS X v10.2 and later include automatic kernel panic logging, so you may not see any visual indication of a kernel panic. "

LOL!!! THEY HIDE THE MESSAGE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG!!! HAHAHAHA

I won't waste my time anymore. You guys obviously do understand but are just being cheeky.

A BSOD and computer not booting up ARE actual OS problems.

nope. it's a problem coming from a security (1-update) that messes up with the OS.


1- (Which I don't need or any other Itch user would need to run Itch.)

Mac OS is better in the sense that there being less computers of the type it's harder to get spyware, but other than that...

dont worry I need a new lappy and will get a macbook pro (most likely) because used it costs less than a Win based with lit keyboard so there.

Just for the lit keyboard and so I don't have to deal with knuckle heads telling me Mac is better when I know better.

But yea main reason the lit keyboard that costs less used from craigslist than a new Win based. (No one is selling used Win with li keyboard) =(

Not necessarily OS all the time. Other culprits are bad memory sticks, bad drivers and hardware issues. Even a faulty power supply could cause a BSOD.

Sure, but I was talking about a specific article.

what category does IRQ conflicts fall under - this is to both of you.

macs are for audio as pcs are for gaming :P god bless alienware...

Windows XP patch fiasco gets even crazier: www.engadget.com

Security flaws are HUGE... why should we? Microsoft can't get pass security flaws. Let's not forget the famous BSOD (Blue screen of Death) which STILL occurs in WIndows 7.

Half the PC DJ's I know brag about how their computer never "touches the net" because they know Windows will be Swiss-cheese if they venture out there.

If you're a DJ + a Windows user, please describe your disabling ritual prior to doing a gig...

Let's see, disable:
anti-virus
firewall
screen saver
write caching
mal-ware
spy-ware
bot-ware
video cam
bluetooth
wireless card
IRQ conflicts
resident-memory apps
any other running apps
+ ANY/ALL energy-save features... just to get a glitch-free DJ session!

Oh yeah, don't forget to defrag...

Mac vs. PC debate... Too easy.

pass=past

^^^ I made that typo using a Windows machine, LOL ^^^

why would u have anti virus installed in the first place? hmmm

except the IRQ conflicts that are somehow based on prior research, the rest is natural so whatever

keep running your mouth.

yep for u it seems VERY easy hahaha

ahh u guy..

I use Windows online all the time. for my gig machine no internet. except maybe a little of my record pool but that's it. My machine is not a facebook machine, it's a DJ'ing machine so I respect it and it respects me back. In exchange I get extra USB ports, E-sata connection, for a MUCH more affordable price. Keep using your Mac's until you too catch spyware and run against the pretty beach ball or a gray screen of DEATH! hahaha without mentioning the screen that says "Please hold the power button" blah blah blah bias BS =) Im happy so be it.

my computer doesn't cook meals that's my job. If you don't take DJ'ing seriously I see how u benefit from a Mac. Again not a selling point for me. PORN? WAREZ? please get a life cheez ball.

No disrespect here CZAR... Keep your cool! What up about not being serious about djing ?? Cause you got a Laptop PC your more serious then US Mac freak's ?

As for Porn, Warez am pretty sure they just say that to laugh their pants off cause honestly reading those thread give's me headache! At least some of them says funny stuff to keep it entertained!

yea i get the point about calling him a lazy mozzarella ball for pirating stuff and using his gig computer for porn. sorry about that.

I was trying to be funny too. But I see how my humor didn't quite get interpreted correctly. Sorry about that guys.

Very well said!

good. When I talk in this forum I can only speak for me. If it hurts so be it. As far as having more risk infections; I have never said anything contrary to that. All I am saying is that if you want your computer to DJ and watch porn and browse warez then u must not care too much more about DJ'ing as much as doing things that might infect ur DJ'ing machine. GETT ITTT? Either one can get infections and we all know the reason why Mac's are "better off" which to me it's pointless because "I TAKE CARE OF MY MACHINE" and in my point of view if you dont, you are running a chance even if u are on a Mac. A chance that some are willing to take I guess. But to say that Mac is better than Win like some people say in this forum is not true to ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME

BTW not saying anytihng about u in particular. (I feel I have to use disclaimers like I'm talking to babies.) But thieves, murderers and liars have won prizes in this world so the prize I could care less. Now about you telling me that u have spent millions of hours (is that plausible?) practicing it's fine (I get it not literally). You are taking it upon yourself to get offended so hit the road jack. I was not talking to you and I quoted what I was talking about. If u get offended ur problem.

czar - do you understand the difference between open system and a closed system ?
just curious

There are many technical factors as to why some prefer Win or Mac. What I'm discussing here is that to call something better just because it works better for "you" or other people does not mean it's better. If we can have a debate fine.

This is the screen I was talking bout.

images.chron.com

just because you haven't seen this it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Yes I do and I also understand that I can make myself Windows a heck of a closed system.

not.

Win has been pretty open from factory (not so much Win7). Even with older versions you could make Win a closed system with the know how.

I'm pretty happy with my buffer size set at 1, my RPM set at 45 and my screens update to 60. True be told again from my actual testing there isn't much computer power needed to run Itch successfully.

OK am done with this thread!

That's the point czar - why would a DJ want to be MCSE to be able to get his machine to the point where it is locked down enough that he/she has your comfort level. I actually went that route and it didn't work. Had nothing to do with win/mac. It was just that - that system was not able to run ITCH and i didn't not want to take the machine apart and rebuild it to get it there - when for a few dollars i could have something that worked out of the box. And the mac did work out of the box.

i prefer pc's for gaming and now use that toshiba laptop to play warcraft.

oh, and i think apple is just better/smarter at making computers than any of the other computer makers.

That is my point. DJ AJ. There should be no Win vs Mac argument as to which one is better other than to a personal level in which it comes down to a particular user. I want people who use Mac to respect Win users and not say crap about Windows just because it doesn't work for them. It has created a false sense amongst some that if you own a Mac you are a better or smarter DJ which is not true.

I dont think this is entirely accurate. apple sells a platform, windows sells an OS. Apple is lucky/wise to be able to design the hardware and software, thus the whole system works better as a whole than a majority of PCs.

That's my point casket.. nothing stopping microsoft from making a stable computer - they did jump headfirst into gaming and proved what they could do. And i don't think apple makes OSX i believe that came from IBM. it failed as pc platform years ago but wound up in apples hands. correct me if im wrong.

hi DJAJ

you're wrong... OSX came from NeXT OS, the company that Steve Jobs founded when he was kicked out of Apple, then acquired to bring Steve back onboard.

NeXT computers were used to build Internet, at CERN laboratories, among other things... :)

The core is the rock-solid UNIX (same as linux).

And that my friends is... [/thread]

Going back again to the I can rock a party with just an ipod. It's not what you have or own or use, its how you use it.

Owning a particular brand doesn't make you better, it's just that Mac users have less problems, not that are better or smarter.

My iPod runs on Windows so it's better!

-KLH

My Mac runs windows... so it way better..lol

Go djfrancov, tell em!!!

I love this thread...kudos to the one who started it.

shut up Dan stop giving yourself props. I was teh one to suggest we should open a thread. U want me to find the suggestion, quote it and compare it to the time and date u started this thread?

lol

Your PC runs MacOS, but should run Windows so it can [be] better! OOOOOOH!

-KLH

^ f'n lack of editing. [be] should be be

lol +1

lol I just installed Win7 in 20 minutes. As soon as the desktop came up (about 12-15 seconds from BIOS) I changed the wallpaper to a US theme wallpaper that changes every 10 minutes and hit internet to check it was connecting (it was), and every other driver was good to go as well. Thank you MS! =)))

Hi DJCerla you are right - that was OS2 I was thinking about :)

Will ITCH 2.0 support OS2 Warp?

-KLH

czar, you got issues. You want credit for it? Go ahead take it. This isn't a competition, no one is getting a prize. I was just trying to be funny. The next time you have a "bright" idea, put it to good use. And no, I don't need a stupid quote to let me know that we had the same idea at the same time.

lol

I had the feeling!!!! haha chill out DANNY!!!!!!

hmm I did put the lol !

a post later...didn't I tell you to keep all your post into 1. You confuse people...LOL!!!

LOL!!!!

I don't care. On Windows, I can run two instances of ITCH with my NS7 - FOUR DECKS, BISHES!!!

-KLH

^^ Ok, that was an outright lie, but I DID get your attention, didn't I.

-KLH

lololol :-P

Personal thoughts.....

I am a windows user (MCSE 2003/2008 as well as a large selection of other qualifications). I have a high performance laptop (4GB of ram, new i7 processor). I'm still buying a MBP for serato.

Y'know why ?

Because of the way apple handle application registries. The reason so much work goes into setting up windows for situations like this is compatibility.

Microsoft has the capabilities to be compatable with almost anything on the market, almost all software can be integrated modified and customised.

My MBP is going to be used for downloading music, I-Tunes and Serato/Ableton. Thats it. If I ran all the software I run on my windows laptop on my mac including all of the tools I need, it would not be a stable platform to run audio through.

All of the 'unnecessary' things you disable when setting up audio with windows are all features. They are not useless or unnecessary they are just unnecessary for the purpose you are using the laptop for.

The fact is a MBP cant do all the things I need it to. But it will do the few things I want it to do. Quickly, Simply and with almost no configuration whatsoever.

If I went to the effort to setup my windows PC properly it would be just as stable a platform with a hell of a lot more features and interoperability options than a MBP.

Fact remains I dont need any of that stuff. The way I see it my MBP wont be a computer at all. It will be a tool for audio.

I have a laptop for a multimedia workstation that can play games, that can be used to do consultancy and a hell of a lot more.

So in a nutshell.

Laptop = Fully customisable, fully compatible all singing all dancing gaming workstation.

MBP = A well made highly polished tool that wont break on my for years so long as I keep it for its true uses. i.e. downloading music and creating/playing music.

End of thread.

PS I may be a Microsoft guy. But I am lazy and not Fing stupid enough to run audio on the same machine I do 100 and 1 other things on and constantly change the configuration.

Simples!

I may have just started a small rebellion......

I have windows installed on my Mac Pro.

I've run itch on both, and they both work flawlessly. However, when I gig, I use my MBP and run OS X just for the simple fact that my clients are looking for quality, and I'm not going to rely on an operating system that takes up a majority of the service requests in this forum.

I want to pay attention to the crowd in front of me, not be bothered by whether or not my OS is going to crash.

That's why i ate the laptop and bought a mac - still use the pc laptop for ms office and doin invoices, brochures and other business related stuff. just not for mixing. Actually, by far i prefer the PC for back office operations.

+1

not true. sorry. It's not about "stability" It's that Apple acquired the software and made it better. Some people use Windows to create graphics amongst other things. It comes down to personal preference. There are graphic rendering applications that work faster and perform better on a Windows base than any Mac simply because of the kind of video cards and amounts of memory Win can work with. If you want to spend 5000 on an iMac to do what I can do with 1000 Win base go ahead.

Acomb is right by saying that the machine should be considered a tool and not a computer (as able to do everything u would normally do with one)

As u have pointed out Breaker. There are badly written applications that can mess with anything. lol Only if OS's were to only allowed certified software to run on their platforms then it would be a lot less likely to encounter problems along the way. =)

I am still considering a used MBP for the lit keyboard being cheaper than a new Win machine with the lit keyboard. (too hard to find a used comp with lit keyboard and Win7 right now) I like the fact that I am less likely to get spyware but I know there is, so I will keep my eyes peeled while using it and the learning curve is something that for someone like me (Win user for life) will still be a factor to consider.

However for the reason that it will be more affordable for me to get a used MBP than a Win with lit keyboard is that Im considering the MBP.

If I decide that the lit keyboard is not necessary before making a purchase I might just stick to a basic Win laptop with specifications that will be enough to run Itch at a very economical price. Core 2 Duo 2 or 2.2GHZ 2 or 3 Gig Ram and Dedicated Video with at least 256MB ram.. and of course Win7. DRIVERS!! LOL! ;) =D

I don't buy what you're saying and you're make a whole lot of unfounded generalizations. MCSE doesn't mean jack in the Mac world. OSX is built based on the Unix kernel and Unix is far more stable than Windoze will ever be + it's been around probably before you were born.

Anyone relegating their MAC to just Internet/iTunes/Serato either doesn't know a Mac, its capabilities or is just shook from the nightmares they've experienced in the world of Microsoft Winfroze.

One of the best points someone above made was the fact that Mac are pretty much standardized to one hardware platform whereas Windoze has to be uber-compatible with all sorts of hardware manufacturers (good and bad). I've run across some cheap a$$ Chinese-made hardware components along with fetti drivers that gave me headaches and they weren't necessarily Microsoft's fault BUT that's what you get with an open hardware platform. You're pretty much at the mercy of the hardware's manufacturer in those cases. This in itself lends to Macs being a more stable and better computer platform for any serious professional wanting a computer.

You can never forget about the constant onslaught of hourly/daily exploits found against Microsoft's OS... Honestly, Internet Explorer is probably their biggest Achilles heal. The OS is BooBoo too... they just can't get it right.

Poll: Would u want to be hooked to a heart/lung machine running on Windows PC or Mac?

1 = Windows-based heart/lung machine
2 = Mac-based heart/lung machine

PS: Czar would need to make out his will...

Neither....... There is specific software for applications like that. Now that is what you call stable.

@ CZAR Wowow again full of F$@$#@@ Nonsense... My god! I work in the gamming industry, for one of the biggest game compagny in the world, and honestly, pretty much all the Sound Engineer, Audio Designers we have and a lot of Level Artiste, Character Modeler are all on Mac computers, not cause a Mac looks sexier on a stupid desk but cause it crashes a lot less then a pc. And that my friend is FACTS. In production, launch date is very very important, like wise if PC's are to crash and need a whole rebuilt then that user looses time to finish his level and then the whole project looses a day of work from that. We get alot of pc crashes here alot more then with the Mac's computer and again this is a FACT.

It's been said milions of times, even by Serato Mod's that Apple computer are better for Pro Audio, Pro App's Like Film Editing and so on. Again this is a FACT just for you!

Get down of your horses, take a pill and chill!

Gafflr if I was the one in charge of controlling Windows I would not care to be used, but in the hands of other people I would rather have Linux =D

CID STOP IT. Serato MODS have ALSO said that most of Windows problems are due to user errors and configuration and a small percentage due to IRQ configurations.

To me honestly with my hand over heart. If u know what u are doing Win machine is a good tool to compliment Itch.

Maybe if your professionals used Win as a tool and not a machine to also look at porn and try out whatever app comes across their face while in work time they would also have no issues with Windows. *Giggles*

haha as a matter of fact. NO OS! People somehow manage to mess up anything anyways. Just unplug me!

Hi czar, are you using 2 user names? Looks like you have make a mistake in the switch.

*made

I'm regretting ever starting this...LOL!!!

is he responding to him self? ...lmao

?

I was quoting myself. Must be the Mac damaging ur brain. =D hahahah!!!!!

So it's settled then? Windows 7 (when supported by Serato) will be better for ITCH than Snow Leopard, right?

-KLH

YUP... And better to cook Kraft Diner and also a multi fonction ash tray!

Are you saying that Windows 7 is an ash tray or the Kraft Dinner? I assume it's the ash tray because it's multifunctional.

Anyways, back on topic. Windows is better than MacOS because it has THREE ways of achieving direct hardware access for low latency:

1. ASIO
2. DirectX
3. WaveRT

MacOS only has one - ASIO. If Steinberg ever changes the spec (like it did with ASIO 2.0), your hardware will be TOAST!

-KLH

Ahaha ASIO on the Mac!

You are 10 years delayed, it seems. Coreaudio all the way, no shitty ASIO.

I forgot about CoreAudio - same thing! What happens when Apple changes CoreAudio to UltraNextLevelCoreAudio? You're FOOKED!

-KLH

is till prefere my Kraft Diner in the morning :-P

Ahahah yes if Steve Jobs kills Coreaudio we're all fucked! :D

GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bumptop.com

I dont know how smart of an idea would be to run this on the gigging machine but for home or experimental use it's just fantastic. I had a similar 3D version of this for XP before but u would have to walk around and had rooms (like a 3d first person game) u could label each room say to "game room" "Office" and in each room u could have ur icons hanging on the walls for different applications.

Well this is a similar take but it's a box. I hope you like it! For both Mac and WIn

Free version and 29 dollar pro!!! =) im so happy!!!

Microsoft Windows 7ista: an horrible memory hog: www.computerworld.com

This is some typical Windoze news:
Jan. 21 2010
"Computerworld - Microsoft late on Wednesday confirmed that a rootkit caused Windows PCs to crash after users applied a security patch issued last week.

Only systems infected with the Alureon rootkit were incapacitated with Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) errors that prevented booting...

Within hours of the Jan. 9 release of MS10-015 and 12 other security updates, users reported that their computers wouldn't restart. Two days later, Microsoft halted automatic distribution of MS10-015..."

www.computerworld.com

This is a typical day in the daily stuggles of a MS Windoze PCs trying to patch their security holes. Face it...

the only thing I have to actually face is my awesome machine! =) If u dont like Win it's ok.

PUT UR HANDS UP FOR DETROIT! AND WINDOWS! PUT YOUR HANDS UP< PUT YOUR HANDS UP!!!!

marymae.tripod.com

lmao

thanks for the warning GAFFLE - i have 2 kids machines with windows 7 not on the internet yet. at least i know what to watch out for now.

DJ AJ

Win 32 bit is supported and working flawless. U dont need to upgrade windows at all to run Itch so turn auto update off and tell it to never ask u to update so u never get any messages.(Google is full of tutorials on how to do anything) Only make sure u have latest drivers for ur devices such as sound card video card.. the rest is unnecessary such as network cards u can disable them. and better yet is u disable them from the BIOS (just as ur comp first boots up look for message how to get inside BIOS) disable whatever (on-board) devices ex. network card, wireless card, on board sound. (ur NS7 or VCI will be ur sound card anyways.) (*the sound is really not necessary disabling (in case u want to still use the sound while using Itch without the controller to sort tracks) but will free even more resources) =D

I dont use my gig machine for web use, only to run my performing software (Itch)

I use another machine to download tracks, studio work, editing tracks, web use.. u get the point. then use an external Hard drive to store my music library or simply use a usb stick to transfer from my studio computer (the one with web use) to my performing machine.

I see my laptop as a "performing tool" not a computer.

I hope that gives u a little idea. As far as updates. totally not necessary hence most updates are to "fix/patch" and rewrite code on ur OS as to prevent again Web threats. If u have no web this updates are simply unnecessary, as a matter of fact DON'T install them. =)

as i am posting i`m currently running itch and two webcams from skype my own webcam and two online chat programs and did i mention that i`m not even using 40percent of my processor oh i forgot with 1ms of latency so if that doesn`t say get your self a mac idk what does by the way i have had it a week and anyone who has a mack the first page of the manual says it all "congratulations you and your macbookpro were made for eachother"

lol sorry it doesn't! hahaha

it so does in the new manuals

sorry.



there u go.

Sorry it doesn't! =D

"I dont use my gig machine for web use..."

Tssk...tssk... Told ya'... classic excuse from PC DJs. Well, if that's what works for you then so be it.


...BUT, what happens when (not if) your Web/DOWNLOAD computer catches one of these many zer0-day viRuSes/exploits and you unknowingly transfer that viRuS to your unpatched-unprotected "performing tool"...?

LoL... you'll be rebuilding your OS and praying you have a recent backup.

Not if you have half a brain....

Here is a list of the worlds most respected companies. articles.moneycentral.msn.com
See who number 1 is and then scroll down to see who number 22 is.

Please note that over 90% of businesses only trust Microsoft software to run the company infrastructure.....

I have yet to find a company that doesnt do pure graphics, sound or video that uses anything other than a microsoft datacentre.

Most companys that use apple servers use Microsoft exchange as a mail server.

Just remember that almost everything runs on Microsoft and it works ! Sometimes in a roundabout way but it works.

Microsoft +1

PS I'm still buying a MBP for Serato

Just get an intel based MAC and do both...problem solved. OS X Leopard as main, Windows 7 on Boot Camp.

Debate over.

Spoils the fun doesn't it?

People are reluctant to change and most people only go with what they are familiar with. Hell, I was reluctant several years ago when I got my first Powerbook but I'm glad I did.
Most people have PCs at home
Most PCs are at poorer schools :-D
Apple is more expensive and proprietary with their hardware whereas Windows is hardware manufacturer neutral (therefore cheaper)
Microsoft backoffice Apps are SOLID (no arguments there)
...not all the reasons but just a few.


I'd totally disagree here. Is Microsoft Datacentre a product?


No debate with this except that there are tons of exploits with Exchange. Lotus Notes would be a much better solution from a security perspective.


Zzzzzz... Sure it works but at what cost? IT staffing for support/patches/exploit & security vulnerabilities and additional solutions to protect the shotty Windows OS from them.


Now you're making sense.

Yes, it's a Windows world, they have the majority of market share BUT they are not better machines than Macs. That's like arguing Ford is better than Bentley because they have more of the market share OR Gucci Mane is a better rapper than Talib Kweli cause he sells more records. LoL!

Sadly, they will spend 3x that amount of money for IT service. It's called Microsoft tax.

Hey... I'm a WAN/Security engineer (IT guy) so Microsoft keeps us employed! Go Microsoft !!!

Microsoft +1 :-P

Bingo! Thank god we have Cerla on our side :-P Good Job C!

@ DJ GaFFle

yep, you should really thank Microsoft, if Macs were used, you'd need to be a full-time DJ to pay your bills :)

For those that don"t have the pocket money for a good mac laying around my Windows is working good enought for me.. :)

Guys, remove the hardware from the discussion - the major brand name manufacturers (Sony, HP, Lenovo) use basically the same hardware. It's the OS that is the core difference. The Apple's Mach kernel versus Microsoft's NT kernel.

I sadly spent an hour re-familiarizing myself on Mac OS's audio architecture because I made a false statement concerning ASIO on the Mac. As it turns out, Apple's CoreAudio is a low-level direct link between the OS and an audio output. It was released (for the desktop) in 2001 with OS X.

en.wikipedia.org

Windows has similar technology in Vista and Windows 7 called WaveRT. While promising and seemingly more advanced than CoreAudio, WaveRT is new and hasn't displaced ASIO (yet). An interesting caveat is that WaveRT is limited to the PCI/PCI Express bus - so it currently does NOT work with USB and FireWire. As we all know, ASIO does - which is a key reason that Windows XP is preferred for audio apps over the newer Windows releases.

en.wikipedia.org

I must admit, I'm scratching my head at this. While admittedly, this has nothing to do with stability, it IS interesting.

-KLH

Hi KLH

you look like someone who's getting a Mac soon ;)

... and Logic is back! :)

Mc Donadls is number 7 pufff so much for ur respect list. Walmart number 12! LOL! Exxon Mobil 18! hahaha

I'm sory! so much for ur respect list! hahaha

Now IBM is 4. Creators of the concentration camps' accountability machines during the nazi era. hahahaha

Whatever guys u keep drinking ur cool aid. ASIO does what ur core audio does. ;)

OMG johnson & Johnson second? I could open a pandora box of nastiness from that company u want to see?

See when trolls look at anything they believe it. For example paying more for something makes them feel like they are getting a better product. =D Noo one wants to admit they just wasted their money. =]

Just like Indians during Columbus times. Remember how they came to America and exchanged pieces of broken mirrors for gold ! hahaha poor indians.

but go ahead please promote ur macs so much that they get in par with how many Windows machines are out there so spyware and viruses start to eat u alive. =] then a lot will see that the only difference is the shine body of the Apple products. If it weren't they would waste time making them so shiny. Instead they would argue that their machines are better and need not waste resources on how they look so much do to the fact that they would be better....

czar you are entertaining...

Very!

agreed

I have had it all expensive and not so expensive in the end everything is prone to fail. The less expensive things tend to be also cheaper to fix and get in track than their counterparts. =) I'm always up for a deal. I agree that somethings are just bad, but generalizing is not wise. For example I can't wear some kinds of inexpensive shoes because my feet sweat and the inside goes bad fast. lol (true fact) but I dont go to the store and spend 200 on a pair of shoes but rather look for the good quality ones at say 50 instead of paying 20 30 for the non-quality ones. The 50 ones last me 4 times what the other ones would.

Not because a USB cable is expensive it's a good USB cable. I will also like to say that there are inexpensive shielded cables too. In my opinion his problem might even be a bad piece of equipment displacing exaggerated amounts of static electricity and there for the shielded cable masked the problem thereof "fixing" the issue..

Electronics should have a sticker that "guarantees" that that particular electronic will not cause disturbance to other operations.

The ferrite bead is put on the wire to assist the manufacturer in
meeting FCC part 15 requirements for radiated and conducted emissions.
That it also has the potential for reducing susceptibility of the
connected devices is just an added bonus, if needed at all.

en.wikipedia.org

MY $5 (shipping included) cable from "New Egg" HAS FERRITE BEAD. =D **Now it costs $7 plus 5 shipping.. That's still less than 20..

but check this www.google.com

godwin's law rears its ugly head.

lol wrong place to post i messed up the mac vs pc with the usb cable thread lol SORRY!!!!

Yea it's true..

that story is sad.

and ill change mine to Dj Win 7 was My Idea!

watch out there are a few other people that might want to steal and use your name...... :)

Lololol :-P

I'll just throw this one out here cause I don't think I have seen anyone post it yet.

The best Mac's I have ever used weren't built by Apple. :D

Can happen carolynncarreno.files.wordpress.com

djceria, your a smart ass after my own heart.

Wait a minute, which side am I on? ;)

-KLH

KHL, in a criminal trial you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the person is guilty. If not you have to acquit. I think you cant prove beyond reasonable doubt that Win is better...If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!!!

I KNOW I can't prove that Windows is BETTER than Mac OS, but I seriously want to establish that Windows can achieve the same performance level as the Mac OS.

Enough with the calm talk. Let's get back to bashing.

Snow Leopard doesn't even make sense. Windows 7 makes sense.

-KLH

SL is just an incremental upgrade and Win 7 is a true update of Vista. Why do you think that is? It goes back to the old saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Vista was a disaster, which is why they needed to come out with 7 so quick. And from what I've seen, Win 7 looks allot like Vista. I guess that's why allot of people call it 7ista. So which one was the less expensive incremental update???

Hey you wanted to start the bashing again my brother.

MusicDan, OJing out doesn't help you win the civil trial. :)
But seriously. I like both OSes. But I will say this, Apple's hardware is garbage. Their computers use crap components and are poorly assembled. Anyone who has had a look inside a MBP can tell you that. Especially in the 1st and 2nd gen models. I can't tell you how many I have seen die from thermal paste sloped around or poorly routed cables. It always made me happy to tell people about their $3000 paper weight from poor manufacturing, especially when it happened to me. Their Desktops are better, but not much. I will say Apple has made some strides to rectify these things, probably from the amount of money they were shelling out in replacement parts. But their road back is long. I still have a MBP, and I like it. But in 2 years, Apple has replaced the Mobo twice, and that required threating to take our discussion to the Attorney General's office, twice.
Again I like OSX, but Macs are trash.

I was wasting some time today looking around in Fry's electronics. I was shopping for a Hard Drive. I decided to just take a look at the laptops to see what they had available and if there were any good sales. In Fry's, there is a section that just has apple products.

I stopped and looked around. The first laptop I came upon was a Mac Book Pro that cost $2299. I was floored by the price versus what you get. I'm a 'bang for the buck shopper". There was no bang in that Mac I looked at. It had a nice processor and good sized HD but that was about it. I didn't look in depth at the rest of the specs because it was lacking other stuff that I must have on a potential laptop for me.

I require a number pad and 4 USB ports for any laptop that I consider buying. I believe the mac had 2 or it might have had 3 USB's. It didn't have a number pad. For $2299 I would expect it to have all the bells & whistles.

In my opinion, Apple just plays it safe with their products. They don't push the envelope, you just get the basics. That may not be a bad thing. Maybe that is why "Macs just work" or whatever. For my $2299, I would want more. I don't have any experience with Macs, and maybe there are other things within that Mac that I don't know about that may justify the price but I couldn't get past the obvious features that I would want. I would feel raped if I bought that laptop. Macs suck, bang for the buck.

Those who bash Macs, usually cannot afford Macs. Are you going to spend $2299 on a Win laptop? As you can see, allot more people here have success using Macs than Win based PCs. Do you want to pay $2299 for a Mac that just works, or $2299 for Win based machine that you have to tweak the hell out of and pray that it works.

BTW, I own a Macbook that cost me $999, and it works flawlessly with Itch. You don't need to spend $2299. And you are comparing Apples to Oranges, no pun intended. I love biting into an apple, you can't do that with an Orange, you have to peel it first, allot more work isn't it? That's why I only drink OJ (hey that's the second OJ reference in this topic). Meaning that I use a PC but only for work. UL is anti-apple as are many here...

From another topic...



Even Serato knows that Macs are better, which is why they use Screenshots from a Mac and not a Windoze Machine...

Tweaking is not that much once u know what to do, and as far as praying, I wouldn't understand that coming from someone who thinks tweaking the machine is a "hell" lot.

Trust me any one can afford a Mac with a credit card. I can if I wanted to.

ha

I can afford a Mac but there is not a Mac on the market that has the specs I want in my laptop. No, I wouldn't spend $2299 on a windows laptop. I wouldn't have to. I got what I needed in a laptop for a little over $600.

Today, if I was gonna spend $2299 on a laptop, I would get his one and have money left over:

www.toshibadirect.com

I wouldn't be able to find a Mac with the specs of that PC, so I would have to settle for this Mac:

www.frys.com

On paper, can you guys honestly say that a Mac, bang for the buck, is a better buy than a PC.

I just tried to build a mac on the apple site. Very few options, get what you need I guess. Ended up close to 4k.... Then i built a Dell.. TONS of stuff to choose from. Left alot of unneeded stuff out but upgraded everything I really needed. Ended up at close to 6k!!

Can't be done. You can buy PC laptops with much higher specs than the $999 Macbook for $599. I can afford Mac. I just don't feel like paying $400 more for crap hardware. The quality of their OS is all fine and good. But their hardware just can't compare to the PC competition. Subdriven, I call shenanigans on that. What systems are you comparing? Mac Pro to Precision?

I should again state I know the quality of Apple hardware from experience. I have bought Mac and I probably won't do it again.

Yea.. guess that isn't realy a comparison... a high end small buisness laptop to a mac pro.

Given the price disparity, I'd say the differences in your comparison are more substantive than that.

Funny I bough a PowerBook in 2004, and it died in 2008. I bought an HP for the wife in 2007 and it sucked. She was complaining every 5 minutes. I tried everything to make it work to her liking and mine. Ended up buying an iMac for her. It's been a year and no problems. I have had my MacBook since 2008 and no problems...Crappy hardware, don't think so.

The argument here isn't hardware, it's software. OS to be exact.
Here is what czar pointed out to us.



The argument is that Macs are better at running itch than windoze, or 7ista...

You guys can keep arguing all you want. Mr. Reverand, how many apple computers did you own? If you are basing your facts on 1 alone then you have no case. My father in law bought a Dell in 2001, in 2002 he had to get it replaced by Dell because it sucked. He then had that refurbished computer, the one he got in 2002, until early this year. Every once in a while you get a bad apple.

Man I am on fire with my puns...

Mr Reverand. Thats a new one. I think my father was Mr Reverand. :)
I am hired geek. I have repaired tons of Macs, from the PowerMac till today. Apple's hardware quality has been on a downward trend since I first fixed one. In the old machines, you could see someone gave a crap about what they were building, but their component quality was in the toilet. Now when you open a Mac you see all sorts of just straight sloppy work. And their component quality is as bad as ever, if not worse. I give exception to their screens, Apple spares no expense on those babies.
If you haven't had problems, hey good for you, even junk can get the job done. I have seen plenty of poorly manufactured PC's with substandard components live long lives. Many Dells and Gateways. That is still no excuse for building with cheap parts and jacking the price up.

I bought Mac because I expected better after the Intel switch up. I had friends and colleagues tell me great things about the NEW Apple quality. What a joke.

That's not true, see the quote below.



See? Even Matt-C says that Windows is the best... except for AMD laptops though!

Let's check that score:

Mac: 4
Windows: 9,323,492, 483,608.7 (one guy is leaning toward getting a PC)

-KLH

KLH, you wanted me to get more involved in this topic, I did. Now I am done for today. Goodnight yall...

I have AMD and it kicks raw lol the athlon might not be all that but the Phenom... Believe me!!

feeling lucky?

Watchwww.youtube.com

I think there should have definitely been a step of him googling porn over and over before the "why is my computer slowing down?" step.

REVIVED because Windows sold more copies than Snow Leopard.

-KLH

Of course they sold more! 97% computers worldwide run Windows! :D

The big news is Steam is coming to the Mac: www.macrumors.com

The last real advantage of PCs (gaming) will soon fade away. ;-)

just for fun. =D

forums.macrumors.com

I will be long before MAC has available all the games Windows has. Dont forget that MS makes games. Good ones too. Xbox 360

macs cost to much - not worth buying a mach for gaming.

thankfully apple doesn't have that go for the jugular attitude

I'm taking a different view of Mac versus PC. IMHO, the comparison should be Windows 7 versus Snow Leopard - specifically how the different driver models address interrupt handling. According to many, THAT feature is what DEFINES performance in ALL operating systems. Since the hardware is the same, this should be an Apples to apples comparison (I couldn't help the pun).

Stating the obvious, Microsoft has purposely designed it's Windows Driver Model to open Windows to more hardware options than Apple's Snow Leopard. It seems that this openness is the primary reason that performance is so hit-or-miss on the Windows platform. There are simply too many devices with less than optimal drivers that impact the stability of Windows. The drivers that consistently impede performance in Windows are the video card, network, and sound interface drivers. As such, Windows real time performance is limited to the weakest link in the chain.

It could be that Macs have the same limitation. However, it does seem that Apple demands that their drivers for video cards, network, and sound interfaces "work well" together before releasing them to the public. That may change as gaming becomes more popular on the Mac, but as it stands, drivers (when released) tend to be more stable in the Mac OSes than what is released for Windows.

I suppose that you can make the argument that practically, Snow Leopard is "better" than Windows 7 because of the Mac being a closed platform. However, I really want readers to understand that at the end of the day both Windows and Snow Leopard are equally capable of performing very well... Windows just might require more hands-on to achieve it.

-KLH

I can play that game too!

lmgtfy.com
lmgtfy.com
lmgtfy.com
lmgtfy.com
lmgtfy.com
lmgtfy.com

I'm bumping this so people post here instead of that other useless thread.

-KLH

Good stuff bro :-)

ok i was a pc user till i got my MBP three weeks ago now i can`t stand anything else and i`m sure any other mac users are the same way people bashing macs just do`nt get it macs are an amazing machine and may not have the biggest processor or all the bells and whistles you think of but take a low end make book pro and set it up against a pc with more ram and a faster processor and see what happens lol it will get crushed by mac

If your high on crack and cock your head sideways, maybe.


If by that you mean your inability to use punctuation then you're spot on, I don't get it.

Ultimately this a pointless debate. Until a single PC manufacturer rules them all, controls the OS and hardware, and starts price gauging there is no common ground.

(I'm gonna a get flammed for that one)

Who cares, if it works it works....

Apple most admired company in the world, according to Fortune Magazine: money.cnn.com

It's the 3rd time in a row.

Beleaguered Microsoft down to 11th place ;-)

PS: AAPL stock has just broken its all-time high today.

Microsoft hit its all-time high of $58 in 2000. Fast forward to 2010: Microsoft shares are worth $28, mirroring the lack of innovation and inability of the company to reinvent itself beyond the usual cash cows (Windows, Office), despite the me-too attempts (namely Xbox, Zune, Bing!) that are losing billions and billions every year (yes, even the Xbox is still a losing business). Well done, Ballmer! :-D

Wooooooohoooooooooooo :-P Gota Love Apple :-P

Most here would say to get a used MBP.

-KLH

Hi,
question for the serato team.
user of the VCI 300 with an old TITANIUM G4 (usb 1.1,there's to much troubles with), i'm gonna change that laptop, and before buying another one i want to know if your company develop an itch version for the ipad. the tactile tech to select a sound or navigate into the itch interface could interest me...
do you have a fresh info about that...

Thanks

Only words from Serato about the iPad: "disappointed" (I don't remember which moderator it was, search the iPad thread). So, I think the straigth answer is "nope".

But they'll soon realize, as many early bashers are slowly realizing, that being out of the iPad bandwagon wouldn't be a good idea at all. That one device is going to take the world by storm.

Just look at those data showing that the level of interest for the device is WAY BIGGER than what used to be for the iPhone launch: www.investorplace.com

MB/MBPs are horrible because they have a big lit apple on their cover.

-KLH

Lolol :-P And now all Laptop Brand are doing just that, putting lights on the cover. Almost all compagnies are stealing Apple's idea's :-P

Yeah, everybody steals Apple's ideas... except from the only idea Apple discovered on its own: milking cash from their customers in every way possible!

to

yes of cours to keep what we buy, a more long time

really? I don't get it... I bought a dvi to vga cable many years ago and it still works on every PC with a dvi port. On the other hand my mini-dvi to vga port only works for a specific generation of MBPs and it's useless now, the same way my mini-display port to DVI adapter will be useless in a couple of years...

Macs WAY less expensive than PCs to manage: survey www.cio.com

The truth slowly emerges. No wonder Apple shares hit another all-time high today.

Cerlia
Enterprise Desktop Alliance is a collaboration of companies trying to push Macs inside enterprises. Their tag-line is "The intergrated Mac". This "survey" is just the first part of an well directed advertisement. The second part is a survey from the same alliance that states various difficulties enterprises meet when trying to use Mac in their networks:

In other words Enterprise Desktop Alliance says "Hey is cheaper to run Macs on the long run, but only if you use the solutions we offer".

Also, next time try to read past the title (or the first page) of the article you cite. In this specific case you would have noticed that there are several issues with Macs in enterprises that actually make their management costlier that PCs.

hi I1Kirm

your explanation is way too logical and articulated, so please, just tease and blood on this topic! :D

Sorry about that...
Actually their is no need to be logical... Macs are just not good for enterprises... period... they just suck in the enterprise world... their only real advantage is bootcamp and VMware or Parallels. The only people using Macs in enterprises are cocky CEOs that don't need a PC anyway, they have secretaries (that run PCs)

PS you should have kept your shares... bad timing mate...

if you go to the iPad topic, you'll read one of my posts saying "I thought that after the keynote the shares would drop 5% or more", and obviously if you expect a drop, you sell! This doesn't implies I did not start to buy back after the big drop... :)

Other times I've totally missed the timing (i.e. I had the shares during the horrible 2009 lows), but this time I've nailed it like Warren Buffett :D

Let's not discuss enterprise usage trends. Let's at LEAST agree to keep to audio related usage.

How many times have Mac users had to reload the OS? Do you Mac OS guys run any anti-malware programs?

On a PC, I've replaced my standard issue laptop drive with a larger one so that I can partition it and run two independent instances of Windows. I use one installation for work (it has Office, networking, anti-malware, etc). On my second Windows install, I have disabled most services (including networking) and only have iTunes and ITCH installed.

-KLH

BREAKING: Apple’s Mac dominates Consumer Reports desktop and notebook support rankings

Consumer Reports today gave Apple a major lead in its rankings for both desktop and notebook technical support," Electronista reports.

"Among more than 7,000 readers, Apple's help scored 87 and 86 points in each category and was much higher-rated than any other computer manufacturer," Electronista reports. "Lenovo came closest in notebooks with just 63 points, while Dell fell far behind in desktops with a 55-point score."

www.electronista.com

Mac: you get what you pay for.

Wow....I applaud Apple for having good support!!! But, sounds like a lot of people having problems though.......lol. What's up with that? I thought you all said that "Macs just work".

apple NEEDS to take care of their customers.

Apple overtakes Wal-Mart to become the #3 biggest company in the US, behind Exxon and Microsoft (approaching MS market cap fast). brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com

Bite the forbidden APPLE! GET WINDOWS!

Watchwww.youtube.com

As a dedicated PC user I know I can't run Itch with that is going on in the background.....

But damn.. that looks cool as hell!

ITs called WIN-linux ... come on czar... linux can already do that!!! finally realize that the mac-linux way is better?!!!!!

????????

lol since when is mac-linux lol... The last time I tried Linux it was poor on comparison to Windows.. it might have improved a lot.. who cares I just wanted to flame a bit. ;) FIRE!

go with the flow get WINDOWS!

Linux cant run my games and a lot of other software properly so NO LINUX!

Lol
There is not such thing as Win-Linux. This is just Windows 7 with a bunch of applications (Switcher, NexusDock and one more that I can't recall right now) and a custom made visual theme. As for the moving background it is just Dreamscene aka video for wallpaper.

Watchwww.youtube.com

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Watchwww.youtube.com

"I couldn't find the "ANY" Key and E-Machines told me to go F. Myself!"

HAHAHAHAHAHHA

news.cnet.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

What I was trying to say that Linux could already do that before windows 7... again windows copying other OS that are more stable, smart move.

That is SOOO true :-P

Windows is a mess.

Microsoft should do what they did with Windows Mobile: start from scratch with a fresh project.

But they simply can't, because losing compatibility with their huge installed base would mean suicide. That's the historical catch 22 for the company.

This is misleading. The X-Windows (GUI) of Linux (KDE, Gnome) is much more buggy than the GUI of Windows or Mac. The core of Linux is stable enough but again not always.

And Windows didn't copied the features off the video from Linux. Other users tried to incoporate them into Windows by building spesific apps

Lol

i have had my mac for nearly a year and i have never seen the OS crash. There were an app or 2 that crashed but never the OS - like a blue screen or something. But i don't use it with a variety of software like i do my PC's. would be interesting to see if how MACs would respond under the same usage of a PC.

if you know of any studies - please post links

I had 2 "kernel panics" (read OSX's bluescreens) since the day I bought mine (about 8 months ago). Nothing is unbreakable

IF you think about it.. most of you guys useing a Mac are using it to run itch and music software. Would be interesting to see what you guys use as a normal everyday computer and what kinda stress you put it under... I have 3 PC's and no mac's.. 1 for Itch, 1 for work and 1 home desktop...

I also use it for casual serfing while on the couch. The reasons I prefer it over my PCs is its light weight and the SUPREME trackpad, definitely the best thing about Makbook pros.

Glass multifinger trackpad rulez.

I use a iMac 27in Quad as my every day computer, i used to have a first Gen Intel Mac Pro.

I stop using a regular pc 5 years ago and i will honestly never go back, i know i pay more for my computer and i could probably get 3 pc's MAXED out for the same price as a Mac Pro but i honestly dont give a $%#$%# hhehehe

My studio just work and never failed me since i made the switch.

Yeah the Glass Multi Touch Gesture trackpad is ASWME :-D i aslo like the new magic mouse, took a while to get used to it but now i cant live without it!

for those really hating Steve Jobs: (DISCLAIMER: nauseating content) --> www.macdailynews.com

uh oh... macdailynews.com

Creepy.. lol

I forgot to mention battery life, although my Thinkpad can compete with that

Yeah battery life sucks abit i have to admit, but either way after 2-3 hours of work on the laptop am FED up and just shut it down, when REAL work needs to be done i do it on the iMac.

BetterTouchTools is also really cool and free

Wowow nice will try it out tonight, thanks very much bro :-D

even 200 dollar EEE PC has multitouch track pads...

As far as usage habits. I refuse to pay a higher premium so I can browse porn and untrusted sites and have less of a risk.

a screenshot at my usage habits...

img246.imageshack.us

czar I still haven't used a trackpad that can compete with the MBP. It's good to open your eyes some times and face the truth.

czar is right

(I mean,he's obviously wrong but "Mac vs. PC debate" is the right place for nonsense like that)

directly attacking me hehe nice

and I have indeed used a mac trackpad... maybe its u that needs to try something else..

are those two screen names belonging to the same person? heck some crazy people would even buy products to have multiple screen names if serial numbers were required...

sick.

LMAO news.cnet.com

BTW the "track pad is the button" is OLD news.. any Laptop can do it.. MULTI TOUCH AND tap the track pad to click..

Oh yea double click too. or hold and drag.. a simple application lets me play with pictures drop pictures to the side, stack them, enlarge them.. u get the picture.. right? also google earth works nicely. hmm problems might be u guys are too unconscious about other computers than macs hence u think ur macbooks are really innovative and unique when they aren't at all. Oh yea paying a premium to be have a little less threat risk.. a "glass" track pad. (lol) ,. and a hmm child proof OS (not really) . is really unnecessary.. and quite wasteful if u spend twice or three times what u would spend on a WINDOWS.. but to each his own right.

7 posts in a row, is that your record?

hehehe hehehe lol I did think about it after I finished,, heck i doesnt matter.. if its one or 7.. oh wait WINDOWS 7!!! hehehe hehehehehehe nah man lol I guess the only difference from posting one long post or 7 small ones are the separator bars..

Truth is you guys are missing out on a great OS.

Dude thats from 2008... My God bro firmware update fixed that long time ago!

Just in case you didn't see it on the other post..



Great OS? What are you talking about? 10 days into Windows 7 and my father in law got the BSOD. There is nothing great about that buddy...

no point on arguing. CID that was supposed to be for fun... just to show that Apple has problems just like any OS and any electronic... fixed or not Apple is not perfect. And like Mac gets "fixed" Win does too. ;] danny get the man a Harley he might have more fun.. or get him linux.. ;] point click use.. linux is perfect for little technical knowledge people.. I wonder what he did to get a blue screen hehe =D I REALLY DO. :P I mean i dont care but he must have messed with something.. as I said get him LINUX and make sure to have something very light like a media player and a browser and thats it.. lol

4 macs no pc's for work,art ,music,and home

Wrong Mac's are for everything. Simply because if you are running some sort of professional software lets say's CADS or MLS or whatever you can can partition the hard drive and install windows 7 and just restart to switch back and fourth. If thats annoying, you can just get parallels and run both OS at the same time. To me having a reliable system combined with the amazing tech sport if anything does arise is why Apple is on top. So now you can use or do anything you did on your pc including getting viruses lol... u'll probably learn to stay on the mac side, most major software titles are supported on osx anyways.

About Linux, i'll give credit to ppl who know how to use it and run it efficently. Linux beauty is nasty but really, you need a massive powerhouse to even run the damn os loll, it is sick tho.. Overall OSX is more user freindly.

Oh and to add some credibility to my post, i've owned a power mac g4 back in the year 2000, yeah um it never died or had a virus on it, used it for 6 years and just never crapped out. But by then u'll just want a new machine lol I currently own a mac mini, and macbook pro.

I use a MBPro and a Powebook G4 for my DJ setups but have a Windows XP PC for the home (purchased circa 2000). The video card is failing on the PC, it's been rebuilt 3x due to trojans/viruses, it runs dog slow especially considering the external firewalls/trojan/spyware programs that run resident.

I'm gonna eventually get an iMac for home use.

I predict <---lol by 2015/ 2020 Apple will lose its advantage of "threat free" from new ways of attacking multiple platforms at the same time (currently on the works, hybrid viruses, Trojans, spyware) =]

I love speculating hehe

the more popular apple gets, the more treats will be developed...

Apple is already huge. To put Apple in prospect, the company is now worth more than 7x Dell, and is closing fast on Microsoft market capitalization brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com to become the #2 company in the US, behind Exxon.

An hacker capable of writing a working virus/trojan (not a proof-of-concept but a real treat) for Mac/iPhone/iPad would get the utmost publicity.

This is why the "security-thru-obscurity" theory is flawed, and has actually proven wrong.

Lets hope that will never happen...

Sure.

Let's enjoy our antivirus-free, hippy Mac-life until it lasts (czar could be right on 2015-2020).

Apple is big money wise but not market wise. Hackers attack Windows to obtain credit card and personal info from victims, not to attack MS!..

I see MS and Apple joining forces sooner or later..

break a leg i mean breakmixer: lol ;]

It is easier to steal from a larger pool ! You obviously dont understand much about it..

LOL all you want..

ay ay ay didnt call u idiot you are just being funny so whatever,, of course apple users have info but who wants to steal from 5-10 percent of population than 90-95 percent? I think u can get a LOT more personal info from 90-95 percent no?

www.freerepublic.com

blogs.computerworld.com

a lot of mac users are kids anyways

believe what u want brother. It takes a minute to research who Miller is...

blogs.zdnet.com

"It’s really simple. Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs don’t do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You don’t have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you’d find in Windows.

It’s more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesn’t have anti-exploit stuff built into it."

news.cnet.com

""I had a feeling that Mac was easier (to hack) than Windows," he said. "If I can find the Safari bug or exploit in a few days and it would take me 10 times as long for IE, why would I do that? I go after the easiest guy."
Miller comes from a Linux and Windows background and is relatively new to the Mac platform because he worked in the financial and government sector before becoming a security whiz.
After getting a Ph.D. in mathematics at the University of Notre Dame, Miller worked at the U.S. National Security Agency for five years. Hired as a cryptographer, Miller pushed for computer security training because he was "looking for something else to do.""

Just let me know if u want a coffee and a media luna with that. as a matter of fact go get it yourself.

I'm bringing it back!!!

+1 if you want czar to comment 2 more time in this thread so that he can reach 100 comments!!!

It will make him sleep better at night! ;-)

Lololll :-P

again not one valid interesting point to argue about. you are talking about my ability to sleep and not the threads title subject.

Safari is application. That is a comparision of web browser to web browser. I know there are exploits for Safari, but Explorer has had way more.

For general OS security
1) Windows secuirty is built ontop of the OS
2) Mac secuirty is built into the OS (it is based on Darwin which is a Unix)

So it is easier to write secure software on a mac. But just because it is eaiser doesn't mean they will. /dev/null

"Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs don’t do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You don’t have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you’d find in Windows."

blogs.zdnet.com

You are going to use zdnet? Why don't you go to some of the white hat and black hat forums and figure out what they are exploting more?

yes explorer has had way more attacks because it is on a more popular OS (Windows). And Safari might have currently a easier expliot. But a Windows VS a MAC machine is much easier to attack.

Unix has protection an kernel level and a file level. Even Windows 7 at a base level is still easier to attack than a mac (and is a 100 times more secure compared to Vista).

I currently use Mac OS Snow Leopard, Windows Vista (forced on my by work), Ubuntu Linux, Gentoo Linux, BSD, etc, etc. This is my own opnion of course, but one that comes from experiece from working on these OSs.

You are so easy to bait.

It's officially 100!!!

I am picturing ticker tape and confetti

-Otter "Shop smart, Shop S-Mart!"

LOL!!!

yes I am going to use ZDNet.

@ Dan . Yes Dan, I must have a lot to say about this.

I have 2 macs and ran itch on both of em. and it runs excatly the same....NUmark ns7 with nsfx
Mac 1 core 2 duo - Model Name: MacBook
Model Identifier: MacBook3,1
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.2 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 4 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 800 MHz
Boot ROM Version: MB31.008D.B00
SMC Version (system): 1.24f2


Mac 2 for home use - 8 core - Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro4,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 2.66 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per core): 256 KB
L3 Cache (per processor): 8 MB
Memory: 16 GB
Processor Interconnect Speed: 6.4 GT/s
Boot ROM Version: MP41.0081.B07
SMC Version (system): 1.39f5
SMC Version (processor tray): 1.39f5


both at the same settings... run perfect.... i did have issues before with the ns7 but since the ns7 came back from repair it runs perfect on these machines...

I am much more comfortable with taking my Macbook to DefCon than I am my PC. But if you want to your machine to set to "My Pretty P0wnies" background, and your credit used to order 1000 DVD of Zombie Clown porn go right ahead :)

Really comes down to choice and what works for you I guess :)

Otter "Hail to the King Baby"

Mouhahaahahahaha Hilarious :-P

That's good since it is a Mac Vs PC debate. Do like Bob Marley:
"Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!"

That comfort is misplaced, since the Mac always falls at pwn to own, and so do the PCs.

Personally I'd only feel TRULY comfortable bringing my old school laptop..... staples pad and pen. :)

Yes, but hard to run a Honey Pot on my quad ruled college legal note pad.

HUH?!?

Nonsense..

(insert smart ass picture of honeypot drawn on pad of paper here)

Back on topic. Now that the iPad is out, development on OSX will halt. On the other hand, Win7 is taking off!

-KLH

Naw it's different DEV Team's!

KHL, where do you get this stuff?

a clear sign that "developement on OSX is halting" has been the STEAM games platform just ported to OSX :-D

Best use of a MBP ever...

cache.gawkerassets.com

-KLH

Someone should come out with a good iPad stand. I don't want to use my MB for that!

Maybe a Pad-Dock.

Oh boy I am getting like czar and posting things separately instead of just on one post.

Loo

ololll

Back on topic. IF someone decided to get a used MBP, how OLD could you go? The first Core2 Duos in late 2006?

en.wikipedia.org

-KLH

3.bp.blogspot.com

Hey! You haven't posted for a while, looks like you are taking your own advice...LOL!!!

Btw, how many more threads are you gonna post this on?

Macs are PC's And PC's are Macs...

Different OS's though

PC= Personal Computer

Both win IMO....

LOL been meaning to mention that one.. everyone is anti pc but pro mac... O.o maybe they should be mac or win....

word

Both WIN =D

=D

I"m sorry Carl I couldn't resist the chance for a joke.

FINALLY NEW MACBOOK PRO RELEASED, NO USB 3.0 FTL!!!

^ and unless you spend over $2k, only two USB ports... just enough for an NSFX or VFX-1.

-KLH

Oh somebody call the Wambulance for KLH!!!

Is anyone rocking a 2007 MB/MBP? If so, does it run ITCH well?

-KLH

www.pcworld.com

Not sure if I would want to run Itch on a Atom processor. But I am sure the new i7s should run it just find. What about that 48 core processor that intel is letting limited releases of?

I would def test itch on teh new atom processor coming out. yesir!

Agree.

www.popsci.com

www.computerworld.com

inhabitat.com

I love coming in to a thread super late, lol! ok, if this is about blood then

MAC SUCKS!

Mac-3
Win+3

From a usage standpoint it seems like I am way slower using a mac than pc. The operating system lacks logic that would make everything so much more seamless. I feel like i have to workaround stuff all the time. Drag and drop support is lacking, and not having open hardware options is ludicrous. Since this is a blood war, i really dont have to have any proof to talk crap, right!

So, even if the software is claimed to be so supreme, the hardware still sucks. Mac knows how to sucker its users into buying new macs every couple years. How many old macs do you see at coffee shops? Not many because
A, most mac users arent technical people who can fix their own ish,
B, who the heck knows how to fix a "spinning beach ball" or "kernel panic" with no error message (Thank god for BSOD - but i have never had one in win7) and
C, mac makes it so expensive to repair ($500 for a hard drive upgrade in a unibody mac book? whatever!)
Plus their stuff really breaks easily! lets not go there... thinkpad vs mac in durability?? NO CONTEST.

So here is the end result. I gave the mac to my wife. She hated it after a month so i bought her a thinkpad and passed it to my 6yo son. He said "white laptops are for girls" so I got him a thinkpad too and so my 2yo daughter is now the proud recipient of a cute little white 13 Crapintush.

OK, NOW YOU ARE NOT ALONE KLH. Let the fun begin! (I sure hope we are all good sports here because lets be honest. You macbois never miss a moment to hack on us pc ppl. so we put up with a LOT of your BS in the clubs. And last, remember this. My thinkpad cost more than your mac, so it HAS to be better, LOL!)

My system:
Thinkpad 12" X61 with dual core 2.4ghz, 4gb 800mhz ram, 320gb 7200 rpm hard drive running windows 7 32bit. Use traktor, VDJ, and ITCH (at 2 ms) on a Numark NS7.

^^^^
wish i was your son!! you gave him a mac.. he didnt like the colour so you bought him summin else...

now i dont have a son, but if i did and i bought him a laptop... and he told me he didnt like it... he would end up with nothing!! lol

back to the subject...

lets all just agree to disagree, mac vs microsoft is like comparing serato scratch live with serato itch... they are both good in different ways depending on the user!!! case closed!!!


macs are better for multimedia.. that is a fact! and thats why most serato user will prefer macs...

djfotizo, while I don't agree with what you are saying, I thank you for your opinion. I too have a Thinkpad, and I would NEVER use it for DJing. But that's just me...

Have Fun!!!

<quote>little white 13 Crapintush</quote> - that was classic lmao.

but in all honesty - i like having a closed system to DJ with. PC is too open
and it's real open.

My PC is a closed system. As in it is closed and packed away in my house when I am out DJing...LOL!!!

Ahhh, it was all in fun... I sell technology in my business so everything has its strengths and place in the market. I research all technology equally and I think we will all end up with a piece of this and a piece of that one day.

Some of my clients need projectors, others need LCDs. My wife needed an iphone more than the blackberry she was on, but for her, windows 7 is better for her than leopard. (She is also the type to jailbreak her iphone, if she keeps it long). I am a windows guy, but they aren't perfect either. Winphone7 is supposed to be so much like an apple product we are going to see a lot of platform hopping in the mobile world. Apple fans are going to LOVE winphone 7, and us Winmo fans are probably going over to google's Android platform for openness.

I have big video production projects coming up, and my 'Team' is forcing me to us a mac when i collaborate with them so I am sure I will end up buying another one. The profit on the job is worth it. Ironically, microsoft makes the best mice, seriously. So there I will be needing my 'two buttons' and controlling a mac with a microsoft mouse. That is how it should be. Use what is best for what you need and leave others be.

I just hope that most apple fans realize that no one ever had to defend themselves about platform until the fan-boi came into existence. One thing you will never see me do is get fanatical about technology. It comes and goes to fast. If you slap your name out there too big about any one thing or another, you may find yourself discarded along with the passing fancy of that trend...

fotizo :)

“Can’t we all just get along?” - MLK Jr.

amen!

Actually... “Can’t we all just get along?” - Rodney King (after L.A. riots of 1992)

Lolol :-P

If we all got along, this thread wouldn't be as entertaining as it is...

Actually, it is traced back to both ;)

I figured it would cause less drama to quote MLK :)



its ALL fun and games till someone gets hurt, lol. No fragile ego's here please - so we can keep having fun at each others expense!

yup

DJ AJ, glad you caught that one :)

remember something called Bumtop I dropped the link to a while ago?

www.pcmag.com

Thread Revival! yay we should add google to the title now. :)

That sounds exactly like something a mac person would say. Sadly field experience would prove otherwise. Just last saturday 2 of us did audio and visuals at an mma event. I was to dj using itch/ns7/windows while my buddy ran visuals with serato vsl on a macbook pro. Video sl kept crashing so at the last minute we switched. He djed on his mac and i ran all the visuals on a pc... reputations didnt matter. we simply had to use what worked. His comment was "man, i remember when serato on a mac simply meant 'stable'. " Not always the case. And, since i am the ONLY pc out of 6 resident djs at my club, i have seen all their macs have hiccups too. I firmly believe one is not better than the other anymore, and the lines will continue to blur as performance increases. I prefer windows. it is predictable. usually if it is glitching there is plenty of time to get something else playing. When i see macs crash, the app just stops. that is too unpredictable for me and i wouldnt switch to mac even if you gave me one...

Quoted For Truth.

-KLH

Apple has finished the Mac vs PC ad campaign.

Apple basically lost this battle in the '90s, but managed to win over 94% of the high end computer market (>$1000), and much of the earnings of the whole industry.

But Microsoft already lost the battle for the future of computing, sleeping over the laurels of a huge monopoly.

MS, led by a marketing guy, is now doomed to irrilevancy, as ultra-portable devices, with light, fast OSs are taking over last decade's paradigms.

Apple is now worth 93.7% of Microsoft, and will surpass the old foe in the next month.

Microsoft is the enemy of the past, the new battle is Apple vs. Google.

only kernel panics.

Not a single KP since 2003.

Today, 97% and counting...

let the drumroll begin for the Historical Day, Apple fans rejoice! :)

I bought the NS7FX knowing I would have issues with it. I've read up every forum and post on here to cover all my bases, and right before it arrived I reformatted my laptop from Vista 64 to XP 32 bit. It still gave me problems, mainly the volume up higher the in the middle would cause the sound to cut out. This happened on 2 laptops and 1 desktop, all Windows based PC's, clean installs, way over minimum specs. This is a new HP 2.4 with 4 gb ram and clean install, still had so many issues. I'm all about PC, I can fix em, program em, whatever. I haven't touched a mac in like 12 years but I knew I'd have to order one.

I didn't use it at a gig until over 2 months later which was last weekend when I got the new MBP. I got to practice with it at home before then with my PC, but to use it on the job and feel confident that nothing will go wrong is important. So I waited and ordered the Mac Book Pro 17" 2.8gh, 4gb ram, 512 video, and all that stuff. It sucked spending another $2200 on a Mac after buying the NS7FX, Numark flight case, etc. but it was worth it.

It worked great, no flaws or anything. It's on 1 ms latency, all the setting are on hi like sampler and recording, etc. The green bar still doesn't go past 20% even when I'm recording my set, using the platter on high and at 45 rpm, while surfing the net, downloading music, and everything at the same time. I gotta say I love the Mac. There's no other drivers n shit to mess it up, and the things are so reliable. I'm still gonna keep the 2 other PC laptops and my desktop of course. But I must say, my 3.2 gh desktop with clean install XP wouldn't work with Itch and the NS7 either. So from a PC user for life, if you want no hassle and can lease one or buy it outright, get a Mac if you want something reliable. I can't even believe I said that but after seeing what happened when I got it, Im speechless and the software rocks!

^ Glad you shared your experience. Congrats on achieving a stable setup regardless of OS.

On the PC side, I wonder if there are chipsets and drivers that are KNOWN to work. That seems to be the technical deal-breaker, IMHO. The laptop may be able to handle low latency DPC calls, but ONE driver brings the whole thing down... or worse does it every once in a while at random.

-KLH

I broke my Atari in 1982 I only need my serato to play tennis again does anyone has that code.
Mac Donalds was built next to a Pizza Cafe< Which been around the longest? do the math while I'm enjoying my Big Mac and my Audience is too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PC meanz Party Crasher. I lost 100 ballroom/ hustle dancers when Cupid said to the left and never made it to the right> and that aint RRRRRightTTTT

Control-Alt-Delete

mac donalds is also force fed cows full of added hormones and stuff bad for ur health. Mc Donald's has a great ad campaign tho.

Just one of the reasons why Apple is a whopping 3x times bigger than Mac Donald's :-D

www.google.com

there is a third variable too. last night after we closed the club, a buddy spun for about 5 hours while we disassebled and cleaned the lights. He was on my laptop and a 57. Guess what happened. The 57 froze up! laptop kept on playing, but no output mixer control nothing. i walked up in the booth and flipped the power off/on on the 57, and the music continued right where it should have been. laptop never skipped a beat. We are dealing with technology people. I dont think there is anything magic. Some people have good experience, others dont. Mac is closed architecture so you get what you get. PC may be less predictable, but when it is stable, it is stable. Again, i am playing 4 hour sets 4 nights a week and see no reason for a mac. I will, however, buy the club a new mixer. Perhaps an ecler with some denon serato controls. So tired of putting bandaids on the 57 every night.

Now 98%

As a juicy pre-celebration, here's the email that Steve Jobs sent to Apple employees shortly after passing Dell market cap:

"Team, it turned out that Michael Dell wasn't perfect at predicting the future. Based on today's stock market close, Apple is worth more than Dell. Stocks go up and down, and things may be different tomorrow, but I thought it was worth a moment of reflection today. Steve."

Now Apple is worth 9x Dell.

The same is going to happen with Microsoft.

dell doesnt do software. it was inevitable. The battle is amongst the software giant. Apple, Microsoft and Google. Apple and Microsoft will inevitably loose for a while because the future of computing is in the cloud. Google will never reign forever because that is impossible. Who really cares? do i need stats to support my purchase? Should i be a fan of football team X because they are the most popular? Nope. I have a brain and can think for myself. I like Ortofon OM over Shure (and i scratch). Dont like pioneer mixers, etc. it all comes from personal experience so this debate will always be rather subjective. I have used 3 different thinkpads since switching to serato and they have always been stable as a rock (A30, X40, now X61). I am a dj, not a stock broker, so who cares who is bigger. I use a windows phone (since win ce days) and have had flash browsing for years, yet apple doesnt, but i bought my wife an iphone. We have both decided to go google next month based on desired features. if they werent offering a tremendous change in the user experience, we wouldnt be switching. If apple can offer the same great jump one day i may be inclined to switch, but the lines are too close to make it worthwhile. IMO!

thats the problem when u bring a stock broker to a forum and ask him to be subjective

ROFL!

just remember that poularity often = ignorance. Ask yourself. Is what is good for the masses good for me?

I agree with that man, it's the same with music when it comes to popularity. Some of the music on the radio and whatevers played a million times is garbage. They make money by playing those tracks even tho they are horrible. My car, my rims, the stupid lyrics and stuff that goes along with it. i love hip hop, always have been about rap and stuff, but give some of the underground hip hop a listen to and you'll see what i mean. Anyway I agree, popularity doesn't mean anything. Plys the whole software thing mentioned is true with microsoft, and xbox is huge so they will never drop as much as you think.
Although today I saw the article and on tv about 200,000 ipads being sold every week. That's insane! I'm all about PC, but audio and visual reliability is whatever works for you. We all want what's best for our systems. Use what works for you, and don't worry what everyone else is doin. INDEPENDENT ~ DJ CCola

Too much logic guys, wrong place, this is the Mac vs PC "I'm bigger than you", bloody thread.

it used to be... you can only fight for so long, then it becomes quasi-intelligent. even amongst djs, believe it or not. How about this one. I heard on facebook lat night that Jobbs is still a virgin, lol!

Given he has 4 sons, while being virgin, we can only conclude he's the Holy Spirit landed to Earth one more time to gift human beings with iPods, iPhones, iPads :)

mmm... "gift" is not appropriate here I'm afraid :D

hahaa true

true. anti-christ perhaps??? a few more curses rather than gifts up his sleeves?? or is that really just cursing from those who have prsonally discovered his games of planned obsolescense (sp), lol!!

Well I heard that Steve Jobs is really the father of Michael Jackson's kids and that's why PCs are better, bishes.

-KLH

ok, lets talk about this "apple bigger than microsoft" thing and some philosophy on how to process the numbers... Remember what is most important. USERS, not MONEY. How much of a foothold does apple really have?

first of all, when was the last time anyone bought a Microsoft BRANDED PC or laptop, huh? Thats right. NEVER. Aside from keyboards, mice, etc, microsoft is a SOFTWARE company. How much money do you think they make when someone (like me) buys a Thinkpad with Win7 on it? $50? $100? $200?? Now how much does apple make when it moves a Macbook Pro for the same money? You should now be getting the picture. Microsoft is outselling the cr@p out of apple. So much in fact that they probably make 10% of the profits Apple makes when a windows laptop sells and they are STILL ahead.

now, forgetting about money, read between the lines here. Apple is still getting stomped from a market share perspective in mobiles, mashable.com

and it seems windows7 is still kicking everyones butt, www.web-soft-design.com

so while it seems apple is doing so well, all they have managed to do is get people to spend more money on their products than the competition. Actually, they use "prestige" and "loyalty" to get their users to give them ALL their technology money.
Follow this example of a Mac vs PC shopper.

As a Mac person, first you buy an ipod,
then an iphone,
then a macbook pro,
then an ipad.
Apple just made at least $2500 off you.

Now here is a PC person.
Insignia Pilot Mp3 (bought it because it has stereo line in for recording and a ton of other features missing on the ipod),
HTC Touch Pro Phone (multi-tasking and Flash browsing just a couple 'upgrades' over the iphone - oh, and it dual boots android too),
Thinkpad x61,
and last a Win 7/Google Tablet, probably by HP for under $400 with open architecture, free apps, no need for itunes, etc.
PC Person just spent at most $1200 or half the price of the apple guy and most likely got more features, but more importantly, look at the breakdown.

Insignia, HTC, IBM, and HP are all in the chain to get money. Again, how much did microsoft make?

So you see, Apple really isnt doing anything worth bragging about. In fact, Apple owners should feel embarrased hearing the statistics. Its one of those "the sucker is you" scenarios I hope you are not experiencing, lol. Get a bumper sticker that says "I also gave Apple $2500 of MY dollars to help them make more money than Microsoft", lol. Sorry... It is true though.

So, they are not growing faster than microsoft (in users), and they are not growing as fast as google (in users), so actually, Apple is on very thin ice. With the IPAD turning out to be kind of boring, they may be running out of tricks.

However, I am glad they are profitable, and certainly like the competition in the marketplace. We all know that competition drives product innovation, so i hope they keep it up and I hope some of you keep giving em your money, over and over and over...

Oh, and I just had another local dj here tell me it was time for a new laptop. Macbook pro of course. I said why, you just got that one. He said nah, it is 2 years old and falling apart. I laughed and sent him my picture of all my thinkpads over the last 15yrs still working, no cracks, breaks, loose hinges, melted motherboards, etc. Man you guys are suckers. a new laptop every 2 years?? Haha... no thanks.

It is because of this fact alone that a nicely hacked snow leopard install on a pc will be about as far as I will ever go to the dark side. PS, macs do use drivers called kexts. But you would never need to know that unless you are trying to use a different sound card, different wireless card, different chipset, etc. I wonder how bad windows would really spank apple if they only made the OS work on ONE type of hardware too? You really want to see how unstable OS X is? Try loading it on every computer on the earth and tell me how far you get....

... end rant, i think...

FTZ

Haha! proof of even more suckers!!!

www.betanews.com

Plug&Pray™

lol, no, this is supposed to be a blood bath. I keep getting objective and have to try hard to get back to throwing dukes. nothing is supposed to be solved here, it is just supposed to keep the mac vs pc debate out of the other forums... doesnt seem to be working to well, lol

I think IBM and Mac probably use almost the exact same hardware... That's probably why it is plug n play for me. I really don't know of the 'nightmares' other pc users are talking about...

serato.com

i guess macs crash too. Maybe not as many, but like i have said - I have seen enough macs crash at the club to not sway me into moving away from PC.

There is no such thing as 100% stable, so choose your 99% weapon.

really? Breakermixer, Cerla what do you guys think of these threads?
serato.com
serato.com
serato.com
serato.com
serato.com

All problems with MAC and all posted within a month of each other...
My definintion of PlugNPray?? Spending $2000 on MBP and still having to gamble on whether it is gonna work right or not, lol

Sorry, tis true.

One "true" thing is that ITCH runs *great* on a sub-$1000, basic MacBook;

Another "true" thing is that Serato recommend Macs over Windows PCs for ITCH operation and general music usage;

A third "true" thing is that you won't find anywhere on this forum a story of a Mac guy switching to Windows for better ITCH performance, whereas you'll find dozens and dozens of stories of successful Win-to-Mac switches; are all those people dumb or crazy? No.

All the rest is statistics, and statistics doesn't help your point, neither.

hah! finally some rebuttal! bout time...

#1. So you say it runs *great*, but there are just as many posts about mac issues as there are PC. How do you call that great when it isnt the case for everyone?

#2. If I were serato I would do the same thing by recommending a Mac. They are EASIER, but not BETTER and hence less hassle for the company itself. Plus, with closed architecture, it is easier for R&D in the long run. Honestly, if they could make all the money they needed making a Mac only version, they would, but all the money is in the PC Sector since PCs outnumber Macs 10-1.
Another "for instance" for ya... I had a client call me today for the buzzillionth time about my computer is messed up, blah blah... She has to use windows for a class and really shouldnt be on a PC. Her computer was running slow so I tried to get her to simply open her task manager to determine if something was chewing up her memory or cpu. After about 10 exchanges I said "Have you ever considered getting a mac? It would be ideal for you". I am sure that is how Serato feels. "Just get a mac and make it easy on us!"

#3. Actually, i have a current story of someone who was a pc, bought a mac, and has now decided switched back as of last week, lol... I am guessing his story will show up on the forums soon, in the Video SL section. Not to mention another mac user that posted on facebook, "Hey Steve, I was a Mac, and switching BACK to Windows 7 was MY IDEA" after her second macbook in 2 years crapped out on her. Oh, here is another.... My graphic designer almost made the switch back after a faulty sensor kept shutting off his MBP every two hours, but he stayed a mac because his mom gave him money for a new one. I bet if it was his money he wouldnt have bought another. I can tell you this fact. None of these people recommend mac anymore. They just silently use them. Actually, i have noticed that the constant complaining about premature hardware failure around the local mac community are starting to change some of those strong mac opinions, so I am sure I will see some more switching over time.

So i guess this is the stuff that really makes points that statistics dont. To the newbie out there, TRUTH - Mac has issues too.

see, there breakermixer goes too. None of us can keep up the fight. It is hopeless. KLH, care to throw some antagonistic comment in to get it going again?

Ok... well, just remember this. Windows users that HAD to switch to Mac already had issues so OF COURSE the experience is gonna be positive after the switch. What I am telling you is that many PC experiences are already positive enough that they dont need to switch!

Seriously though, if you guys saw all the crap running on my machine before i play (PC) you would flip. It really stands quite the opposite of popular opinion and can be considered a trump card.

I have promised several people here on the threads that I would test my thinkpad running snow leopard and report back using ITCH. I had leopard on it and it made no difference, so lets see if I can get to "Never Crashes" instead of "Rarely Crashes" with SL...

Cheers all! tomorrow is wed so time to get back at it!

hardly breaking news, as perfection doesn't belong to this world.



another one that thinks that OSX=Mac.

Not that easy, bro, as the Mac experience comes from tight sw/hw integration (each Mac version has its own dedicated system), something you will never get on your Dr. Frankenstein's Hackintosh.

Wow. One story. Getting ugly for Jobs&co.

mac is better coz they have the apple logo on the back of the screen... so when you open it... there is a lit up apple logo facing the crowd so they know your a real DJ

This Fotizio dude reminds me of CZAR...Long post, double, triple post...

u calling me? careful! lmao

UPDATE: Apple is now worth 99% of Microsoft... Rosè Champagne ready for big celebration later today :)

rose panties?

haha so funny first post I check after reading all this crap and;

www.serato.com

u seem fast to try and help lmao.

i hope Apple tanks and u lose everything :D

So what? Apple doesn't write drivers, and the guy doesn't even have a VCI yet.

Next one.

yea next one..

Really? You're a very bad and immature person.

However, I am actually waiting for Apple to tank (it always does from time to time), I have no position at the moment.

... 99.5%

some people just don't deserve to have money.

now for some laughs..

w6h.net

Agreed. For example, those who wish other people's misfortune.

hahahaha my mother says that everybody deserves a chance and maybe u'll chance someday.

yasik.kiev.ua

... 99.9%

more laughs

www.funnypictures.net.au

say the truth. u just need an excuse to pop that rose.

life is excuse enough to celebrate bud. ;)

djcerla, i just found a stat that said microsoft aims to make 5% on windows on the sale of a 1000$ machine. The median price right now is 65$ per computer sold. That being said, windows has to sell 15 copies of their OS for every 1000 laptop mac sells to stay even.

So, while they are making more profit, there really is no need for champagne at the moment.

Now if they can achieve stability in an open system, I will meet you and we can pop champagne together (and spin a little of course)!

cerla, you realize it isnt that tight after disassembling a dozen macs. it is just all the same hardware. that is why a dell mini 9 runs osx out of the gate because almost all the hardware runs with the default drivers.

Once apple went intel, most of their mystique went as well. I respect a closed system, but mac does=osx. the hardware is just something they have to make their OS deal with whether it is made by ibm then or intel now.

a hackintosh is nothing more than loading the OS with modified kexts (drivers) to suit different hardware. again, mac does use drivers so this is hardly a dr frankenstein deal.

en.wikipedia.org

My apologies if i have personally offended anyone on the boards. this was simply supposed to be mac vs pc without personal attack. I have been home sick for a couple days and had some extra time to dedicate to research/posting.

I will make sure to keep posts shorter and less frequent in the future.

hahah whats next? unfolding ur half pound dj setup? lmao

fastflip.googlelabs.com

www.zdnet.com

wrong link. sowy

You didnt offend anyone hehehe i was just pointing out that you reminded me of good fellow CZAR :-D

thanks guys! While i wouldnt consider myself one with a fragile ego, i do understand that to some debate=fight, and i never want to be that guy. Also, as the guy who books the djs at the club, i have seen first hand the repurcussions of back-biting words. Politics do exists, so respect must always be exercised!

Noted. Let's continue and pretend that Macs matter...

-KLH

Aww, whats the matter, did you get a virus? You should really get a Mac, we don't get viruses...LOL!!!

Breakermixer, I want cookies.
KLH, did you get your's yet?

Here are the real numbers of witch company is the biggest!

money.cnn.com

Actually, i think i got the virus from playing with one of you UNPROTECTED macs! LOL! All you carriers need to be honest with people before hooking up with us online and spreading your diseases... J/K!

Seriously though, there are mac viruses designed to take down the mac itself so keep abreast here; www.securemac.com

Antivirus is free these days and EVERYONE should use it. For you PC guys, Microsofts new tool "Microsoft Security Essentials" works great and uses very little resources. i use it with comodo firewall and have zero problems.

its official.... APPLE WINS!

news.bbc.co.uk

congrats to applee, inc!

serato.com

=O

exactly what wins? lmao! thats what they win lol

they have successfully proven that they can overcharge for everything and people will still buy it! J/K!

honestly, none of us make a dime from either company so what does it really matter, right?

cerla does

for the record, 15 more hours logged on th NS7 without a single glitch. recorded for 8.

and (cerla you wont believe this) dj kommotion was in the booth all night saturday and told me that he is also ditching his mac and going back to pc...

Never said that a PC can't run ITCH satisfactorily; I just say that a Mac is more likely to run ITCH satisfactorily, and countless posts by the Serato staff are backing this point.

That's so true. Either way it doesnt mean that on a Mac it will never fail, there's just al ot less issues with Mac's compared to PC's PERIOD!

u mean for you and those who might agree with you..

Wich ever bro, i dont want to argu with you, cause it wont go anywhere... Your a Pro PC and all and in your back yard PC's are the best thing on earth, but if i just read the Serato forum, i can literally count how many PC's buddies that have issues compared to my fellow Mac user's.

Then i compare on Traktor Forum, Ableton Forum, Novation Forum, M-Audio and Degidesign and in all honesty 70% of user's are MAC user's and 80% of people who actually have issues are PC user's.

So bro, no disrespect but really get a life!

here is what it comes down to...

If you like to monkey with the OS, tweak until you need to find more tweaks, swap components at will... BUY A WINDOWS BASED PC.

If you want to buy something that all you need to do is pop out of the box, change the wallpapers, and it does whatever you want... BUY A MAC with OS X.

There is no such thing as a technology that is tamper proof. So it is futile to say one OS is weaker than the other in security. As long as hackers have rewards for their time, then there will always be threats. Until we find a way to deprive them of their prize, viruses, hacks, and all else malicious is going to be part of our lives on any platform.

The reason why DJs and Musicians like MACs is because all they have to do (90%) of the time is install their favor compatible application on their Mac and off they go. They have very little tweaking to do before they can begin using it. With Windows there are a LARGE number of things to consider and tweak in order to make the OS stable for live audio and video. Also if you are desperate to run Windows for programs that are not compatible with OS X, there is always bootcamp.

I had 3 Windows based laptops in the last 4 years for DJing, and each one of them required ALOT of work and maintenance to make them "performance ready." I have since got a MacBookPro 2009 edition and LOVE it! I assure you my friends could not believe that I bought a MAC, as I have been anti MAC for a VERY long time since I have almost 20 years in IT. I have always looked MACs as being a "users" machine and not that of a "professional" IT guy who knows how to take care of his machines. The one thing I do recall having to make myself do when I first got my MAC... was to LET GO of trying to make things so complicated. LOL I kept looking for ways to make this work like that and how to tweak that because of this... when I STOPPED doing that... I realized half the crap I did on my Windows machines was to work around the way Windows worked. Once I realized how the MAC actually worked, I found it VERY easy to let go and leave all those hours of tweaking behind... and get down to business with what I bought the MBP to do! MAKE THE MUSIC!

To sum it up... When performing on my Windows machines... i felt like i was holding my breath all night hoping it would not mess up. And to be a DJ who is suppose to be setting a mood for 100's for people... that is NO WAY the right frame of mind to be in. With my MAC, I have never had a problem in practice or performance. Therefore the feeling of DJing on a MAC vs Windows is night and day. MAC WINS! (pun intended!)

Don't talk to me statistics, it is so 2009

There are no applications on windows that you can't start using right after downloading aka installing aka putting the damn program on the OS.

The only problems you might encounter might be corrupted files or incompatible files from attacks at your "online identity" which basically cheat you into accepting to install applications that damage your OS "kernel" and OS performance ='[. It is possible to even turn cell phone cameras and microphones and see and hear what the phone sees and listens by hacking!

If Apple keeps spreading rapidly I assume it would mean a not too long matter of time before more attackers focus on the Apple OS. By jail-breaking your iphone ex. you are doing what Windows is. ("Open.") Hence you can install anything, even things Apple hasn't "overseen"<--- this would mean a MS oversee? Which there is none except from their own software suits.

This may end on your device not working properly because Apple never had a chance to check the application that you just installed from a third party. Now your device has been hacked by someone who cheated you online and your device is not doing what it is supposed to be doing; what you see in windows when you are not careful and accept to download to your computer malicious files embedded in good useful applications that you wished you could use when you accepted to adder the file to your OS. ='[

It sux I know. ='[ don't u ever want a freebie application??

I have and do! lol I have seen some of the best freebies around. There are TONS!

but yea whatever I am tired of arguying. use what works for you.

That is all I have been trying from the beginning, I want to bring my win machine everywhere and not be judged by people who have had bad experiences with it.

If we count how many people DJ with what; Serato in the USA and VDJ in Europe.. except cerla. =]

no seriously let's not forget Traktor and all. It's all good baby! all I want to do is have a party! Who hasn't had a drop out or something or anything!? Stop bitching and get a lyfe! LET"S PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, I don't think that any Windows user would seriously claim that MacOS is inferior to Windows. I think that the only valid argument is that the pricing of Apple hardware seems to be more expensive than their Windows counterparts.

While I can't speak for other Windows users, I can honestly say that the only reason that I don't run MacOS is because of Apple's pricing. The value (for me) doesn't seem to be there. I'm willing to pay 10-15% premium, but it seems like there's a 30%-40% premium. Of course, I've also seen the wonderful party AFTER you buy it, but it's just hard for me to buy something with that premium a price.

I suppose that this is a case where having deep technical skills work against me.

-KLH

*adhere

*arguing

spelling bee

KLH, now that's somebody who speaks the truth and is not afraid to say it. Kudos my man.

I totally agree with KLH as well.

Agreed.
Man you talk with a lot of sense and I really like when you post because your viewpoint is typically non-biased. For myself, the only reason I purchased a MBP was for business reasons. No matter what is being said by whom on a forum the bottom line is my profits and what gear will ensure that I can maximize those profits. Since I have opted to go with V7s I had to go with what works for me without fear of failure and/or losing gigs (hence losing money). Three Wintel laptops could not cut the mustard with Itch and I lost revenue because of those unfortunate snafus. I bought the Mac however out of desperation (not because Apple's stock is doing well). It just so happens that's what did the trick. Not one disappointing episode since the purchase. Doesn't mean I switched or gave up on Wintel PCs. As I said that was strictly a business decision. As a casual computer owner at home, my money is with the Wintel PC for exactly the reasons you stated above. Apple premium was worth it for my business because the rewards justify the purchase. However as you said.. "it's just hard for me to buy something with that premium a price" for personal and casual usage.

Shocker: Google ditching Windows on security concerns: www.marketwatch.com

I mean, Google. Not an Apple fanboy.

This is my feeling as well. I will NEVER consider buying a MAC at current prices. When I shop for gear, I always buy what gives me the most bang for my buck. My current PC laptop cost me $700. A MAC with similar specs would cost me about $2400. I can't come up with any reason(for me) to pay that much for a laptop. Sure, I could buy some other MAC model for a lot cheaper, but it would not have features that I want on my Laptop. My laptop runs ITCH fine at 2ms latency, which(for me) is satisfactory. I don't mind tweaking my computer to run effectively. Even if it is true that "MACS just work", it just isn't worth $1700 for me.

First, a crash or hiccup in front of your audience will cost you much, much more.

Second, we are in a ITCH forum: well, a <$1000 Mac will do the job perfectly at maximum performance. There is really no point in buying a $2400 Mac for club usage.

Sounds good.

My $999 mac works perfectly at 1 MS. I have an iMac at home but the missus is always on it. So I pretty much use my MacBook for everything. From Audio manipulation to Video editing, for slideshows for weddings. Check this pic out.

[IMG]i801.photobucket.com[/IMG]

The First Dance, and parent dances were slideshows. All done on my $999 MacBook.
My specs. 2.1 GHZ processor, 1 GB of Ram. You guys put too much emphasis on specs. You don't need that much to perform well on a mac. I get the same arguments on my Bose system. 1500 watts total? That's not enough. Oh yes it is...

Cerla, you have the same confidence in mac that i do in pc. Honestly, I hold my breath all night when someone plays along side me with a mac. When I had do do the last big video show for an mma event, tomatoslice and I couldnt pray enough to keep his mac stable, so i had to do the video work. All this 80% this and 70% that is irrelevant. Both machines obviously can be stable/unstable depending on what the user does to their machine (and provided there are no hardware issues), so in my opinion, this thread has reached an end.

If any of you guys need Windows help, I am available. If you need mac advice there is tons of help here as well.

It is called SUPPORT, and that is why we ALL joined these forums to begin with.

Fotizo

Fotizo, well put man. I agree.

That's crazy talk!!! We're not done arguing yet! There can be only ONE WINNER!

Look at it this way, since games and video production stress computers like nothing else, why not look to which platform is the best on that? Hmmm... Windows!!!!

If you can handle 16x antialiasing at 1600x1200 without breaking a sweat, running ITCH will be at .0001ms latency!

-KLH

haha!!! KLH to the thread rescue! ok, I don't mean to hijack, but MusicDan, did you really say Bose?

^ Yeah, MusicDan. You had me going until I read Bose. Then the needle scratched off the NS7...

What 'chu talkin' about Lieutenant (Music)Dan? That's right, I said it! I can mix Diff'rent Stokes with Forrest Gump if I want, dammit!

-KLH

You guys don't know!!! That's all I gotta say.

KLH I love when people call me Lieutenant Dan, thanks.

Never talked about "confidence".

It's statistics, and words from the Serato staff (which are obviously based on their statistics).

I don't derstand how you guys could beat this dead horse again. ITCH runs statistically better on Macs and no twist of words can change this hard cold fact.

... whereas other software, like Mixmeister Studio, runs WAY better on PCs.

I am gonna agree with Fotizo on this one. Shocking isn't it. There have been times where I have wanted to stop following this thread. The only reason I haven't is because I started this mess. LOL!!!

I will say as a former Virtual DJ use, its MAC version was still in beta stage when they released 6.0... so if some idiot was DJing live on a beta version on their MAC you don't blame the MAC. You blame the idiot DJ for even attempting it! So you can't air there and make a blanket statementthat MAC is unstable due to 1 instance of this.... and who knows what they were using to dj with (software wise.)

What it comes down to is unless you have walked a mile in the shoes of a DJ use BOTH platforms can you make a true comparison and opinion... the rest is a bunch of veal opinions from lopsided 3rd parties.

Lastly, PC means personal computer. Which means what ever solution bestseller fits your needs and you will never know which is best until you try both for yourself. Compar8nguyen your performance to the gut next to you is not valid. The guy next to you may be completwly incompitent on either platform lol

Yeah i agree, I use both PC and MAC. Some people don't know what they're doing tho, and some have some crazy apps and stuff downloaded that can mess everything up. I don't use one of the PC's for anything other than work. No extra programs, downloads, I don't even play games, surf the net, or download MP3's onto my work computer, I use my external hard drive. the reliable one I use for work is the Mac, but I only bought it because I have 3 other computers, all PC, and only 1 of them worked on 5 ms for more than 4 hours while recording. It's just the case with me, but I love using both systems all the same. Everyone is different I guess.

hahaha maybe a MOD could do that for you.

I thought you didn't see that.

actually we do need to twist words here. We should say "ITCH statistically runs better on CLOSED architecture than it does on open architecture" (and what software doesn't, lol). So, if you mess with your mac a lot, you may have issues once only reserved for Windows people. OR, if you have a dos based machine that has closed architecture, then not meddling with it may yield Mac like performance results...

Statistically speaking, Windows runs faster on MAC hardware than comparable Windows only machines. This clam has ben made by Apple since they started including bootcamp.

yea, i dont know what crack they been smoking

That's all because of Drivers! Apple optimized every driver for it's hardware to run perfectly on it's computers via Bootcamp.

gah... i'm driving so i cant post the thread at insanelymac.com (hackintosh site) of the guys that have osx out-benchmarking their macbooks on identical windows hardware.

i have also read at tomshardware.com where xp loaded clean (no bootcamp) outperformed osx on its own native hardware...

ultimately they are all just computers and i thing the USER is probably responsible for mucking up the performance more than the manufacturer...

Bingo! And there are far few 3rd party options for MAC vs windows... therefore on the whole fewer muck ups. :) lol

Also there is something to be said about putting out 5 or so models a year. Sony probably puts out 20 different laptop models a year... and their drivers are crap and won't run on anything but the OS it ships with...

Exactly.

my guess is that dell and ibm are potentially the only OEMs left using strictly intel. I would think HP as well, but they fry wireless cards so often that something is amiss. Sony is the king of proprietary hardware so they cant be trusted to leave anything standard. Asus and Acer have several vendor partners and make their own hardware as well. Gateway? Toshiba is probably mostly intel too, but they roll out new models like the tides and are constantly changing, not to mention they have amd options as well.
Wow! I just thought of something. Here is probably a very good litmus on trustworthy makes. If the pc manufacturer has AMD options, then they arent concerned with closed architecture. Bing! (pun inteded :)

thing about dell is they used the cheapest parts that will usualy work with the system on a normal usuage, but for our purposes it doesn't work.. you can't blame windows or intel for these issues, you blame the companyt that built the computer. So the fact that people are blaming ALL windows systems for the faults of other company is kinda crazy... yes apple builds there own software and uses hardware known to work but a other companies have the posablilites to build windows based pc's as good and even better.

Well, if you look at HP, they make a Windows based DJ laptop series now... and all of them are MUCH more expensive than a MAC. However some come with Traktor and a NI audio interface. However the price tag is over $2k and far bulkier. So the fact they are selling a higher end laptop series in order to cater to the DJ world... tells you they are not saying you can "squeak" by with a low end T4200 Intel chip for $500.

So folks are saying in this thread that the Apple price tags are too high, and I think the fact they can get by on a lower end PC says it all... but many former Windows PC and now Mac users will tell you it is only a matter of time before the "cheap" will eventually bite you as it has MANY others, including myself.

Also, another good point to make is how the Window PC manufacturer world piles on the BLOATWARE with free trials, their personal entertainment bundles to "help you" and applications that integrate with other products they have like Sony TVs and Cameras. I did a post in the GENERAL ITCH forum on this here:

www.serato.com

It is a HUGE difference between Windows based PCs sold on the market vs Apple MACs.

Also, many try and compare a MAC to a Windows based PC/Laptop and leave out SEVERAL upgrades you get with the MAC that are VERY important to DJs...

1) all MBP's are equipped with backlit keyboards.... this is AWESOME for DJs in low lighting situations!
2) Firewire port - this is awesome for achieving 0 latency on your sound card or external hard drive
3) all come with a high end graphics card. even if you are not going to be playing VIDEOs, a graphics card still takes the load of scrolling wave forms and such off the CPU and the graphics card handles that load. Which means the CPU can be more focused on things like error free audio. :)
4) your screen is MUCH more clearer and higher resolution. I put my $800 Sony VAIO up against my MAC both booted into WIndows 7 and the clarity on the MBP was simply breath taking compared to the VAIO. This is VERY important to have crisp fonts when visually browsing your library.
5) MBP's have a single video output port that has multiple dongles you can buy from Apple in order to output to VGA, sVideo, DVI, Composite, etc... Most Windows laptops have VGA/HDMi these days. You can always buy a conversion cable, but a HDMI to DVI cable runs you $60 or more... the dongles are like $30 from Apple... and the Belkin non OEM solutions are like $12.

There isnt a Windows based laptop under $1k with all the above specifications. The laptops that hover around $1k with the above add ons are going to be gamer laptops, which are better than "general use" laptops... but still not professional Media power houses.

Also, lets talk battery life... a MBP can achieve up to 8hrs in a single charge! I had 3 Windows based laptops and NONE of them could even get the "quoted" 2 hrs of battery life.

Lastly, what it comes down to is your laptop is the MOST important part of any laptop based setup. It is the heart and brain to merge with your DJ soul. Laptops and PCs are to have a life of longer than a year... which means you are making an INVESTMENT. Therefore if you can not fathom the $1200 USD entry price point for a MBP, but you will spend $1300 for a single CD player (or even $2k for the CDJ2k's for pete's sake)... then you are not looking at the transaction correctly to begin with! If you are buying a CDJ so that you always have a backup in case your laptop fails, then you are missing the point on buying a laptop of equal investment so that you NEVER have to fail over to CDJs!

well put man

I have a Thinklight ;)



a most excellent point, but most people probably think the 1700 spent on an NS7 and case enough to justify INVESTMENT vs CDjs and Mixer. We should all re-emphasize to new people on these boards that the laptop IS the mixer and should anticipate spending what they would on a 57 or similar quality IN ADDITION to theee NS7.

...a little append here since KLH didnt beat me to it :)

i also have a firewire port and 3 usb ports, 6 hours of battery after 1.5yrs, a SINGLE breakout box that converts vga to any output (vga, composite, s-video, component, hdmi for $80 total), and a nice MATTE transflective screen so i can see outside without reflection. But, this IS a high end machine as well. So, purchasing a MBP would not yield any of these things to be considered an 'upgrade'.

I only point this out so that people realize their options are not limited to mac.

This has allowed me to use one computer for everything. Outside of djing/club partnership, i also have a home theater company, an IT business, and an internet startup all of which are done on a single 12in thinkpad that gets taken out of my backpack and opened 10 times a day it seems.

I guess at some point it would be nice to have a seperate machine just for djing, but that is after wife gets her treadmill, son starts swim lessons, daughter gets ballet classes, and whatever else balances out the fact that i just bought an NS7, lol...

I've been realy looking into the thinkpads. I've so much good things about it. what kinda specs you have??

Who else has a thinkpad? what kinda specs?

click my name and check out my profile. I have it listed there.

If I was to buy a Windows based notebook for any reason, I would buy an Asus. They are top ranked among many "tech consumer" reports. I think the IBM Thinkpads are popular, esp in the business and executive world. However that is for general use (ie web, email, apps, etc... does not reflect use for DJ/Music/Production.)

LOL!

thinkpads and those seem to go well with people bcz some say that those machines have good internal parts aka good quality components.

DJChad72, please dont take this the wrong way, but I totally disagree and think that is not good advice. IMO, we are getting closer to determining that Windows systems that run all Intel hardware (like mac) are less likely to have issues vs companies that use their own manufactured hardware when running ITCH. You are a Mac user, right?

Asus will most certainly use their own Asus motherboards and often AMD chips as well. Serato Itch does not even support AMD. I would not recommend that over an IBM THINKPAD (not lenovo stuff) with closed manufacturing practices that only involve Intel hardware.

If anyone is USING a Asus laptop with no issues please chime in... If you are NOT using an Asus currently, please do not recommend one to the benefit of new people here.

.... dreaming of ITCH 2.0 solving all the problems of the world ....

DJFotizo,

I had an Asus laptop before my Sony VAIO. I took the Asus back because the keyboard on that particular model/unit was flimsy and the frame sat lopsided. So instead of just trying another unit, I went with Sony because I thought perhaps they had a better handle on quality vs Asus (being new to the laptop market.) Boy was I wrong... i never had so many issues with my DJ rig than with that Sony. The Asus had a T6600 Intel based chip @ 2.2ghz w/ 4 gb RAM and a 5200rpm 500gb HD. It was a $620 laptop... very reasonable.

What was even more awesome about the Asus was that I could run the latency checker without disabling a THING and it would NEVER even go into the yellow. I ran an "automix" set for 8 hours one night, left the latency checker on, and it never once went into the red. That is saying ALOT for a Windows 8 machine. Normally you have to disable Wifi, modems, webcams, etc... but not with the Asus.

I was kicking myself for not taking a second chance on the Asus after I wrestled with the Sony for 3 months. However that said, if I had not had all the trouble with a Sony I dont know I would have made the choice to go with a MAC... of which I have been extremely happy!

So I do agree with you, we should not make recommendations based on biyased opinions. However that recommendation was truly based on experience on my part.

This is getting boring!!!
Time to stop following this thread.

Love you guys-No Homo

Peace

sorry, That is saying ALOT for a Windows 8 machine... meant Windows 7... sorry i didnt go to the future and come back to write this post, i swear. ;)

Also, the demo model of the Asus did not have the keyboard and lopsided issue my unit did... So it seemed to just be mine.

Music Dan 0 DJChad72 1 :)

Mac 501-PC 55

Bishes

that I agree with ! ;)

Chad, did you use the asus with itch? was it stable?

pipe down fanboys, the grown ups are talking now, lol!

I only had it for a week, and I only used it with VDJ and Traktor. Both of which performed outstanding with NO tweaking out of the box what-so-ever.

So I can not say it ran with ITCH. However it is a good indication if 2 of the "big 3" ran effective... so would the 3rd. Big leap of faith, I know.

But it does meet all the spec for ITCH and far exceeded them. But I still love my MBP way better compared to that model. However Asus had models in the price range of a MBP with comparable features/specs.

Given my experience with their LOW END model... I would expect alot from their higher end models.

"my comp bad, my comp hood. my comp do stuff that your comp wish she could."

^ LOL! Classic.

-KLH

Damn, it wont let me leave. Since I started this mess it keeps emailing me and showing up on my started discussions.

Haha you started it, now we own you!

You can put a rule on your email inbox to move any message with the thread title in the body to a special folder or trash. You will still have it on your dashboard on the right when you log into the site.

You could probably go ahead and say this 'issue' is resolved since the MAC heads won. :)

Win... won hands down over the Mac. But Apple will ultimately win on the tablet space they invented, with a huge domination shaping up.

Tablet sales will surpass PC sales in 3 years. In 5 years, Microsoft will have 5-10% of the consumer computer market, Apple 70%.

hmmm whos gonna pay for that?

You wanna buy a Saturn or an Acura? Which looks better? Which is better built? Which has higher resale value?

You spend more, but you have more piece of mind.

Go ahead, the "they will both get you where you have to go" comments, but you can't compare.

Here is a better comparison.

What would you prefer?

Hercules RMX
or
Numark NS7

you can save $950.

Case closed, somebody please lock this thread!!!

Music Dan is on Fire today :-D hahahhaha SICK!!!!

Windows won? Whatever! ...and I am sure your mom goes to college

TYPICAL FANBOY BEHAVIOR. SUBJECT EXHIBITS SIGNS OF INFERIORITY BY INSULTING OTHERS AND JUSTIFYING HIS BEHAVIOR BY BUYING OVER PRICED PRODUCTS. SIMILAR TO THE BLING BLING DISORDER THAT HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY OBSERVED ON PATIENTS OF SIMILAR INFERIORITY COMPLEX. LMAO

CURE IS AS YET UNKNOWN.

HAHAH IM JK OF COURSE BUT LMAO

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING???

Must be an inferiority complex.

lolol :-P

We on fire
Up in here, it's burning hot
We on fire
Shorty take it off if it get to hot, up in this spot
We on fire
Tear the roof off this mother******, light the roof on fire
N**** what you say
We get loose in this mother******, light the roof on fire fire fire

I was not shouting. I just had CAPS on.. I was only typing.

And you must have read what popped up right after you hot post.

More than half of your message contains capital letters. To many forum users this means you are SHOUTING your message, and is considered bad forum etiquette. Please consider editing your message so that there are fewer capital letters.

Yet you still hit post again.

alright stop it. dude btw if that itch is burning!..

omg

www.labeldataplus.com

hahahaha

"mom goes to college" is from Napolean Dynomite... just as an FYI. ;)

I would not say I am a FANBOY though... I like sh*t that works out of the box! Which is why I think MBP and ITCH are such a great pairing. You buy. You install. You plug. You play. WOO HOO!

You dont have to build mappers, go through this 12 step OS tweaking program, and spend every afternoon and evening trying to figure out why A and B leads to C, which leads to D, and unfortunately results in Zzzzzzzzzz (which is you falling asleep while reading the forums to desperately find what the F is wrong!)

After the time and money I spent on 3 different Windows laptops, I happily paid $1700 for my MBP that I have never had to monkey with in order to get things to work. I just had to beat the learning curve of being on something new. In my case I was new to Mac OSX and ITCH. :)