Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

Mac Vs. PC Debate

MusicDan 5:11 PM - 5 February, 2010
Let's start a Mac Vs. PC debate so that anyone who has issues with the other can let it all out here and leave the other topics alone.

Who is with me???
kraal 5:18 PM - 5 February, 2010
so is this where we talk about itch 2.0 ???
spazz 5:23 PM - 5 February, 2010
LoL.. :.)
spazz 5:23 PM - 5 February, 2010
I luv your wit kraal... ;-)
MusicDan 5:34 PM - 5 February, 2010
Why not? Every other thread gets hijacked!!!
DJ dVO 12:12 AM - 6 February, 2010
I still think those EFXs buttons on the NS7 would have been a killer running from the Macbook Pro! Ha ha ha! :) At least I am half on topic...
DJ_Bany 1:36 AM - 6 February, 2010
I have both and Mac is flawless for me were as my pc was crap!
on Mac : imac 3.06, 4gb ram, 256 vram and 500gb HD with bluetooth keyboard and mouse and wireless internet. My pc was a Rain livebook 2.53 intel"penryn"core 2 duo also with 4gb ram, 512 vram, 320gb HD and supposedly designed for pro audio and the "senior tech" tweaked it for perfection. verdict was iMac wins! image was nice and did not fail one bit on 1ms latency. on pc the display was choppy and hang up on latency set at 5ms. I tried to xp pro, vista 32 business and win7 pro. nothing worked. PLus the display sucked on pc
MusicDan 1:51 AM - 6 February, 2010
DJ_Bany, that's what I'm talking about.

Mac=1
PC=0
Antony Ellis 2:06 AM - 6 February, 2010
who gives a sh*t....?
MusicDan 2:18 AM - 6 February, 2010
Exactly! People here use every other topic and turn it into a Mac Vs. PC Debate, but when given the chance to do it separately, who gives a sh*t?

Let those topics be what they are. You wanna debate which OS is better or who has a bigger penis, then do it here...
Cid K 2:51 AM - 6 February, 2010
Yeah i give a shit, MAC ROCKSSS Fuck PC!
MusicDan 3:01 AM - 6 February, 2010
Mac=2
PC=0
czar 4:37 AM - 6 February, 2010
lol u guys. vram is actually memory consumed either from ur hard drive or from ur ram to virtually create video memory. if im understanding correctly that that is the kind of video memory you had. correct? ur "senior guy" should have known this. it will strain the system unnecessarily. but sure trust your "senior guy". I find it hard to believe he knows a lot =) good bye.
czar 4:39 AM - 6 February, 2010
at the end use what works for you. but dont say Win based computers are crap or that Mac is better because it varies with users.. I have yet to get me a mac so until I get one I cant compare. yet my Win has never left me short of expectations and delivers a lot for the buck. so in my experience I have to score on you.

mac=2
Win=1

yes, Win. not pc... macs are pc's too.
spazz 4:52 AM - 6 February, 2010
Glad somebody finally pointed that out. Like trying to have a Mercedes vs cars debate.
kraal 5:03 AM - 6 February, 2010
this is turning more into a bias vs bias debate
djfrancov 5:49 AM - 6 February, 2010
GO LINUX!!!!! that's the best... peoples OS
spazz 7:12 AM - 6 February, 2010
Quote:
GO LINUX!!!!! that's the best... peoples OS

Itch on LINUX... we can only hope.
kraal 4:34 PM - 6 February, 2010
hope=speculate :)
djcerla 5:22 PM - 6 February, 2010
@ topic

Best site for Apple news/ objective opinions and Microsoft/Dell/Palm/Google/Nokia well deserved bashing --> www.macdailynews.com

:-)
DJ_Bany 11:05 PM - 6 February, 2010
Sorry guy's I was referring to video card mem.
DJ_Bany 11:13 PM - 6 February, 2010
Also, I tried my damdist to crash this imac by loading doubles constantly and tweaking knobs like crazy and scratching like a mad man!! all this while on the internet two displays and NS7 plugged into hub from 2nd monitor! I was only able to get to the center of the cpu meter! All I need now is a macbook!! But i will use my imac for gigs if i have too.
czar 12:41 AM - 7 February, 2010
bany u got ur Win laptop still? u live in NYC area I desperately need a laptop ASAP! =) im serious... =)
czar 12:41 AM - 7 February, 2010
thanks =)
Felonyruckus 1:53 AM - 7 February, 2010
I have both PC and Mac. I was against Mac up to about 2008 until my PCs started hanging and wouldn't be able to handle work loads. I tried Mac and haven't looked back...I now own 4 plus a PowerBook. The Macs work perfectly with Itch and I don't worry about crashes.

Mac +1
DJ_Bany 3:21 AM - 7 February, 2010
Sorry bro don't live there anymore but I still rep the NYC. That laptop is getn sent back asap! Peace!
czar 3:38 AM - 7 February, 2010
I have the feeling this thread should be a hit somehow, maybe not..
Cid K 4:02 PM - 9 February, 2010
There beat that stupid Gates hahahahahahaha Total Ownage!

Mac +1
djcerla 5:56 PM - 9 February, 2010
This is the man who runs Microsoft since 10 years:

monkey dance: Watchwww.youtube.com
selling Windows 1.0: Watchwww.youtube.com
developers! Watchwww.youtube.com
laughs at the iPhone: Watchwww.youtube.com
laughs at Google Chrome OS: Watchwww.youtube.com

No wonder Microsoft market value dropped 50% in the last 10 years, while Apple gained some 1000% (yes, one-thousand-percent).
Cid K 6:12 PM - 9 February, 2010
+1 for Mac again

Cant wait for the Pc Fan Crew to add some meat on this hahahahahah
czar 9:46 PM - 9 February, 2010
arstechnica.com

blogs.computerworld.com

There's some. Even with constant attacks from spyware geniuses Windows still controls the market by far. Now you can argue all you want. Windows is open to all computer manufactures, (making it a LOT harder for Microsoft to develop than Apple can ever dream) (for now anyways), it controls the biggest market share, and I have people telling me how they are dissing the I-phone to try the Android so...

"I have 4 words for you. I love this company!"
"Developers, developers developers, developers!"

When it comes down to reality, MAc is for either people who don't have a clue about OS's and how to avoid spyware and threats (porn watchers) or people who want to have the *shiniest or both.

I don't care who wins or whatever I just don't like ppl like you saying MAc is better cuz it is not... you are cutting into my business by scaring bar and club owners into thinking if I own Windows I risk crapping the show mid way which is not true so please stop.
czar 9:47 PM - 9 February, 2010
BTW I use Google Chrome now..

I don't care if Apple grows really, the thing is the more Mac's out there the higher the risk there will be for users to get spyware invaded... honest.
czar 9:49 PM - 9 February, 2010
I use Chrome Browser. not the OS... The OS is targeted to once again people who want basic control over a device.. avoiding threats by having a "flah" OS... nothing special just not the same as Windows.. yet we will have to see the final product.
czar 9:49 PM - 9 February, 2010
Might be good/
czar 9:57 PM - 9 February, 2010
This is awesome, but ANY DEVICE CAN BE CAPABLE!!!

Thank god they created an internet czar in the US. Imagine the bad things that could be done remote control. Already can be done.,.. eeeeeshhh

Watchwww.youtube.com
czar 9:59 PM - 9 February, 2010
"I have 4 words for you. Beach ball of hell!"
czar 10:02 PM - 9 February, 2010
I don't actually EVER get blue screens... Except if the drivers from the specific device are not Windows 7

windows7.iyogi.net

www.microsoft.com
czar 10:02 PM - 9 February, 2010
lol notice how we used. "Death and hell" hahahaha
czar 10:05 PM - 9 February, 2010
dang my spelling... I meant *NEVER and Windows 7 signed... =)
Cid K 10:19 PM - 9 February, 2010
:-P I guess czar is the only one using a pc!
Cid K 10:20 PM - 9 February, 2010
But i got to admit, i never got a BSOD with Win 7.
czar 10:24 PM - 9 February, 2010
Quote:
But i got to admit, i never got a BSOD with Win 7.


and you are running Itch beta driver... not even signed yet...
czar 10:26 PM - 9 February, 2010
Quote:
I suffered a lot of BSOD since Windows 95. That´s hell.
No BSOD on Mac.
Mac +1
Win -1


It is natural that software gets better or worse with time.. In my honest opinion Windows has only gotten better. It is not windows itself.. it is the drivers that cause the problems..

Take Mac OS for example. If there is a piece of hardware I want to use. I might not be able to because Mac might not support it, So i can hack it and make Mac believe it is ok but I will be running the risk to crash the OS..
czar 10:28 PM - 9 February, 2010
Quote:
:-P I guess czar is the only one using a pc!



Yea unfortunately many people specially business owners reading forums like this encounter people saying Windows sucks just because it doesn't work for them. )They don't know how to work with it..) and it creates the false sense that Mac is better so people might opt to take the plunge and get a Mac just to not have to explain to people that Windows is OKAY! if you know what you're doing..
MusicDan 11:35 PM - 9 February, 2010
czar, I love you man, no homo, but you should let other people in the conversation. Otherwise you are just talking to yourself and only crazy people talk to themselves.
czar 11:47 PM - 9 February, 2010
I'll try to address everything in a single post next time..
Cid K 12:06 AM - 10 February, 2010
I said a millions times that i work in IT and god knows i know my way around a pc. I didn't try to hide behind osx cause i tough it was easier... or to not get any spyware... That's the most ridiculous comments ive seen on here so far. I use a pc everyday at work and we support 3000+ users at my branch and about 15 000 World Wide.

Ive said it before, since ive moved to mac all my problems disappeared. I use only Mac computers at home since that's the only place i do production and djing and of course in clubs.

Even at my work place (I work for one of the biggest game company in the world) All the audio designers and sound engineer are all working on Mac computers, the Sound Studio also is fully setup with Mac Pro's and Pro Tool's HD and honestly they will never change that setup for a pc's. Pro Audio works best with Mac's and that's a fact! It's an Industry Standard and even all the links and post you can find wont change that! Even our Motion Capture Studio is all setup with Mac's!

To browse the web, check emails, do some excel spreadsheet and even play game's perhaps a pc would be more suited for those, either way i got iWorks and even Office for mac that is as good as on pc with the exact same functions... So yeah to play games i got to admit a PC would be the best choice.

Either way we need to compare Apple's with Apple's and Oranges with Oranges not Potatoes and Kiwi's!

Take 2 Computer side by side, with same specs and same configuration, one pc and one mac. For Pro Audio, Serato, Films, Editing and of course any Graphics work load... The MAC WILL OWN on every Level.

For gaming it's a different story!

NUFF SAID!

I think CZAR is taking this to personally and i honestly think that all of this is a total waste of time to continue to argue on those matters.

PS: Man how old you... it's just that sometimes i get the impression am talking with a Kid!
DJ_Bany 5:41 AM - 10 February, 2010
Hey czar i tried to do it and with some help from Rainrecordings. My problem was that I dropped alot more money on that livebook lappy and it still had hang up. That tech probably had no idea but the bottom line is that he had to turn off every single process and some just to get it to be okay. I am surprised he didn't tell me to pull the battery out! C'mon now On my cheapest iMac i can do whatever I want while i'm running itch. It just does not make sense . I just use a pc to back up my movies now since macdaripper takes like an hour!
djcerla 9:56 AM - 10 February, 2010
czar 10:30 AM - 10 February, 2010



hahah it's so late here and I should be sleeping. came for Facebook to do a quick status and couldn't resist checking the forum. LOL great video! hahaha crazy =)
czar 10:34 AM - 10 February, 2010


hmmmm did the guy not know how to use Win? =D
czar 10:35 AM - 10 February, 2010
Cerla def takes the cake and the icing too, sorry break maybe next time =D
czar 10:49 AM - 10 February, 2010



LOL!!!!!!!!! The end made me laugh. "things gonna change?" "I hope so dude" hahahahahha
Cid K 1:58 PM - 10 February, 2010
Very very good videos... :-D
Hit Hard 6:32 PM - 10 February, 2010
Im buying A, Mac Book Pro Should I Get 13" or 15"
djcerla 7:09 PM - 10 February, 2010
@ Hit Hard

hold on, wait until Apple announces the new i7 models (in a few days)
Cid K 8:23 PM - 10 February, 2010
Yeah same for me, 15in is perfect for gig and light work.
DJ.AJ 8:59 PM - 10 February, 2010
breakmixer that was cool

mac +1
pc = 0

i was a pc head for a long time until using ITCH it wouldn't run on my laptop it ran fine on my AMD desktop but the lack of consistency forced me to buy the mac now i love it and use it for more than just ITCH.

It would be
pc +1
mac - 1

if you go bang for the buck though and take ITCH out of the equation.
DJ Boom Bap 2:06 AM - 11 February, 2010
I am getting my first Mac on Friday (yes!) A new Macbook Pro 15 inch

+1 Mac
-1 Windows
KLH 8:02 PM - 11 February, 2010
I'm just going to post this rant here because readers should know this:

Those that prefer Windows will use Windows. Those that like MacOs will go MacOs. Those that don't want to learn how to tweak the intricacies of Windows should buy a Mac because it runs DJ and Music apps well its default configuration.

Both Windows and MacOS can crash and be unstable if not maintained or abused.

While Apple tends to use higher quality components, Windows vendors can be just as, if not more, expensive than Apple is.

Windows and MacOS are both great products.

Buy what you like.

-KLH
djcerla 8:09 PM - 11 February, 2010
hey KLH

this is not the thread for a civil, balanced discussion, but for the bloody FIGHT! :-D

(the idea is to keep the other threads clean, isn't it? :)
KLH 8:17 PM - 11 February, 2010
Oh snap! I misread it. I jumped here after seeing that other one.

If that's the case, IT'S ON!

Macs suck raw ass because they're not Windows and they don't have files that end in three letters!

Take that, bishes.

-KLH
djcerla 8:33 PM - 11 February, 2010
@ KLH

actually, I'm not bashing Windows anymore because it's like shooting an ambulance: too easy, no fun, and unfair, given the stark Mac supremacy (not talking about market share, obviously, but product and user experience).

I just can't help myself to address "somebody's" bullshit thrown to Macs based on mid-90's Apple facts, and Microsoft-sponsored FUD.
MusicDan 8:38 PM - 11 February, 2010
I am glad I started all this...Go Danny, Go Danny, Go Danny.

And yes, in case you haven't figured it out, my name is Danny. I can just picture someone as they read this, "oh, MusicDan-Danny, I get it!
KLH 8:40 PM - 11 February, 2010
Dammit, that's just not going to work DjCerla. Maybe if you used a two-button mouse, you could come up with something witty.

Actually, I can't go there because your English is better than mine.

-KLH
djcerla 8:42 PM - 11 February, 2010
go Danny, high five! But we need more blood here, we lack a serious, methodical Windows-basher to fire things up.

PS: I have a 3 buttons Logitech
KLH 8:49 PM - 11 February, 2010
Ok. Here I go.

Macholes just WISH that they could run programs like Cakewalk and still had access to FireWire, Blu-Ray Players, and REAL MS Office apps. But if we're really going to go there, let's talk OS backward compatibility.

You KNOW Apple is going to come out with its next OS that will leave Snow Leopard users out in the dust. It's going to cost "only" $100 and make all of you Macholes REPLACE your precious MBP with something new - like the MacBook "Ultra."

Then what'll happen? You'll finally see that Uncle Bill has your back. All you have to do is run Windows Next (v8) ON YOUR MBPs and you'll be okay!

Until then, enjoy your day in the sun. Enjoy the ticking clock as it counts down towards inevitability. Enjoy your two USB ports. Enjoy Flash while you can.

... while you can.

-KLH
MusicDan 8:52 PM - 11 February, 2010
Can someone tell us how much Snow Leopard costs and how much Win 7 costs?

Can someone tell us how many GBs they saved installing Snow Leopard and how many GBs they saved installing Win 7?
KLH 8:57 PM - 11 February, 2010
Hey, who's side are you on, MusicDan?

Price implies value. Win7 is more expensive because it's a (*ahem*) true update of Vista. Snow Leopard is just an incremental upgrade...

(I don't know how much longer I can argue this.)

-KLH
czar 3:37 AM - 12 February, 2010
Just a thought (not directed at you KLH "They say ignorance's a blessing but in this case it's killing you!"
MusicDan 3:43 AM - 12 February, 2010
KHL, I am on Mac's side. You couldn't tell? But I have nothing against windows users, and I have nothing against you, maybe just a little bit against czar. I'm just kidding, czar and I have a Love/Hate Relationship, NO HOMO.

But when you believe in something you defend it, no? I believe in Mac, I have since 2004 when I got my first PowerBook.
Cid K 4:24 AM - 12 February, 2010
I got a magic Mouse no more stupid buttons! Take That PC!
KLH 4:31 AM - 12 February, 2010
Well, I'm running dry with reasons why Windows is better. I suppose that I can only argue that with knowledge of Windows, it can perform just as well as MacOS.

The problem that I see with most DJs, is that it's just too easy to install 8 million things in Internet Explorer, and then you "need to have" MS Office, and you also "need" PhotoShop, and throw a few games on there, and THEN there's a problem with ITCH, right?

I blame users, not the OS.

-KLH
Cid K 4:35 AM - 12 February, 2010
Most of issues are always at 6 inch of the screen!
KLH 4:41 AM - 12 February, 2010
OK - here's a plus for Windows. Most IT professionals are assigned a Windows laptop. For around ~$100, you can replace the laptop's hard drive with one almost twice as big and partition it so that ITCH has it's own Windows install AND the job has it's own Windows install as well.

Benefit is a free laptop with a dedicated ITCH environment. Cost is ~$100. Better than a MBP? Only financially. Good enough to run ITCH? Yep!

-KLH
Cid K 4:49 AM - 12 February, 2010
Will never be as sexy as my MBP hehehe :-P
KLH 4:57 AM - 12 February, 2010
Tru dat, but did I mention that work PCs come with EXCELLENT support?

-KLH
Cid K 5:02 AM - 12 February, 2010
Yeah i got Apple Care, if something happens to my Mac i just drop it at the store and they fix. Theres also the Genious bar at Apple store where you can actually sit down with a tech and learn stuff kinda like one on one sessions.
spazz 7:59 AM - 12 February, 2010
KLH I feel you bro. You got some good points but dam my MBP is frickin' gorgeous. Like I keep saying "It's like a work of art". Every time I touch it I can't believe they made something this powerful, yet so dam sexy... Oh crap I just got wood!!! ;-)
czar 8:26 AM - 12 February, 2010
breakmixer u r living in the past regarding the share dll's.. sorry..
czar 9:59 AM - 12 February, 2010
I think in my case it was mostly part of the learning curve but I respect your opinion.
djcerla 1:27 PM - 12 February, 2010
Are you a PC? Show your BSODs love with a nice tattoo -----> www.blogcdn.com
KLH 3:54 PM - 12 February, 2010
^ Too funny.

That's it! I'm done arguing for Windows. At the end of the day, I maintain what I said (way) above:

Quote:
Those that prefer Windows will use Windows. Those that like MacOs will go MacOs. Those that don't want to learn how to tweak the intricacies of Windows should buy a Mac because it runs DJ and Music apps well its default configuration.

Both Windows and MacOS can crash and be unstable if not maintained or abused.

While Apple tends to use higher quality components, Windows vendors can be just as, if not more, expensive than Apple is.

Windows and MacOS are both great products.

Buy what you like.


-KLH
djcerla 6:41 PM - 12 February, 2010
More Microsoft havoc: security patch results in BSOD, stops Windows from booting: arstechnica.com
Cid K 6:50 PM - 12 February, 2010
Epic Fail for Windows

Mac: +5
PC: -5
czar 8:17 PM - 12 February, 2010
cerla u seem to worry about windows way too much =D (joke)

bring me actual OS problems not security flaws. I want to see the Windows kernel having other than "security" flaws. It is easy to talk from the side that doesn't have to deal with new threats every day. For DJ'ing I'm not worried cause I dont use the lappy online so security threats are the least of my worries =)

(I picture you Cerla typing "Windows kernel flaws" into google right now.) =D

Check this.
support.apple.com

"Mac OS X v10.2 and later include automatic kernel panic logging, so you may not see any visual indication of a kernel panic. "

LOL!!! THEY HIDE THE MESSAGE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG!!! HAHAHAHA

I won't waste my time anymore. You guys obviously do understand but are just being cheeky.
djcerla 8:32 PM - 12 February, 2010
A BSOD and computer not booting up ARE actual OS problems.
czar 8:39 PM - 12 February, 2010
nope. it's a problem coming from a security (1-update) that messes up with the OS.


1- (Which I don't need or any other Itch user would need to run Itch.)

Mac OS is better in the sense that there being less computers of the type it's harder to get spyware, but other than that...

dont worry I need a new lappy and will get a macbook pro (most likely) because used it costs less than a Win based with lit keyboard so there.

Just for the lit keyboard and so I don't have to deal with knuckle heads telling me Mac is better when I know better.

But yea main reason the lit keyboard that costs less used from craigslist than a new Win based. (No one is selling used Win with li keyboard) =(
spazz 9:24 PM - 12 February, 2010
Quote:
A BSOD and computer not booting up ARE actual OS problems.

Not necessarily OS all the time. Other culprits are bad memory sticks, bad drivers and hardware issues. Even a faulty power supply could cause a BSOD.
djcerla 9:55 PM - 12 February, 2010
Sure, but I was talking about a specific article.
DJ.AJ 3:38 AM - 13 February, 2010
what category does IRQ conflicts fall under - this is to both of you.
zaguama 4:28 AM - 13 February, 2010
macs are for audio as pcs are for gaming :P god bless alienware...
djcerla 2:42 PM - 13 February, 2010
Windows XP patch fiasco gets even crazier: www.engadget.com
DJ GaFFle 11:39 AM - 16 February, 2010
Quote:
cerla u seem to worry about windows way too much =D (joke)

bring me actual OS problems not security flaws...

Security flaws are HUGE... why should we? Microsoft can't get pass security flaws. Let's not forget the famous BSOD (Blue screen of Death) which STILL occurs in WIndows 7.

Half the PC DJ's I know brag about how their computer never "touches the net" because they know Windows will be Swiss-cheese if they venture out there.

If you're a DJ + a Windows user, please describe your disabling ritual prior to doing a gig...

Let's see, disable:
anti-virus
firewall
screen saver
write caching
mal-ware
spy-ware
bot-ware
video cam
bluetooth
wireless card
IRQ conflicts
resident-memory apps
any other running apps
+ ANY/ALL energy-save features... just to get a glitch-free DJ session!

Oh yeah, don't forget to defrag...

Mac vs. PC debate... Too easy.
DJ GaFFle 11:46 AM - 16 February, 2010
pass=past
DJ GaFFle 11:49 AM - 16 February, 2010
^^^ I made that typo using a Windows machine, LOL ^^^
czar 2:25 PM - 16 February, 2010
Quote:
And don´t forget that there are services that you can not stop if not uninstall the program (anti-virus).


why would u have anti virus installed in the first place? hmmm

except the IRQ conflicts that are somehow based on prior research, the rest is natural so whatever

keep running your mouth.
czar 2:27 PM - 16 February, 2010
Quote:


Mac vs. PC debate... Too easy.


yep for u it seems VERY easy hahaha
czar 2:45 PM - 16 February, 2010
ahh u guy..

I use Windows online all the time. for my gig machine no internet. except maybe a little of my record pool but that's it. My machine is not a facebook machine, it's a DJ'ing machine so I respect it and it respects me back. In exchange I get extra USB ports, E-sata connection, for a MUCH more affordable price. Keep using your Mac's until you too catch spyware and run against the pretty beach ball or a gray screen of DEATH! hahaha without mentioning the screen that says "Please hold the power button" blah blah blah bias BS =) Im happy so be it.
czar 2:46 PM - 16 February, 2010
Quote:
Especially if you visit porn or warez sites.


my computer doesn't cook meals that's my job. If you don't take DJ'ing seriously I see how u benefit from a Mac. Again not a selling point for me. PORN? WAREZ? please get a life cheez ball.
Cid K 3:37 PM - 16 February, 2010
No disrespect here CZAR... Keep your cool! What up about not being serious about djing ?? Cause you got a Laptop PC your more serious then US Mac freak's ?

As for Porn, Warez am pretty sure they just say that to laugh their pants off cause honestly reading those thread give's me headache! At least some of them says funny stuff to keep it entertained!
czar 4:04 PM - 16 February, 2010
yea i get the point about calling him a lazy mozzarella ball for pirating stuff and using his gig computer for porn. sorry about that.

I was trying to be funny too. But I see how my humor didn't quite get interpreted correctly. Sorry about that guys.
Cid K 7:54 PM - 16 February, 2010
Very well said!
czar 8:17 PM - 16 February, 2010
good. When I talk in this forum I can only speak for me. If it hurts so be it. As far as having more risk infections; I have never said anything contrary to that. All I am saying is that if you want your computer to DJ and watch porn and browse warez then u must not care too much more about DJ'ing as much as doing things that might infect ur DJ'ing machine. GETT ITTT? Either one can get infections and we all know the reason why Mac's are "better off" which to me it's pointless because "I TAKE CARE OF MY MACHINE" and in my point of view if you dont, you are running a chance even if u are on a Mac. A chance that some are willing to take I guess. But to say that Mac is better than Win like some people say in this forum is not true to ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME

BTW not saying anytihng about u in particular. (I feel I have to use disclaimers like I'm talking to babies.) But thieves, murderers and liars have won prizes in this world so the prize I could care less. Now about you telling me that u have spent millions of hours (is that plausible?) practicing it's fine (I get it not literally). You are taking it upon yourself to get offended so hit the road jack. I was not talking to you and I quoted what I was talking about. If u get offended ur problem.
DJ.AJ 8:21 PM - 16 February, 2010
czar - do you understand the difference between open system and a closed system ?
just curious
czar 8:23 PM - 16 February, 2010
There are many technical factors as to why some prefer Win or Mac. What I'm discussing here is that to call something better just because it works better for "you" or other people does not mean it's better. If we can have a debate fine.

This is the screen I was talking bout.

images.chron.com

just because you haven't seen this it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
czar 8:24 PM - 16 February, 2010
Quote:
czar - do you understand the difference between open system and a closed system ?
just curious


Yes I do and I also understand that I can make myself Windows a heck of a closed system.
casket hands 8:25 PM - 16 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
why would u have anti virus installed in the first place?

Because connecting a Windows computer to the Internet means being in constant danger. Especially if you visit porn or warez sites.

not.
czar 8:25 PM - 16 February, 2010
Win has been pretty open from factory (not so much Win7). Even with older versions you could make Win a closed system with the know how.
czar 8:29 PM - 16 February, 2010
I'm pretty happy with my buffer size set at 1, my RPM set at 45 and my screens update to 60. True be told again from my actual testing there isn't much computer power needed to run Itch successfully.
Cid K 8:32 PM - 16 February, 2010
OK am done with this thread!
DJ.AJ 8:34 PM - 16 February, 2010
That's the point czar - why would a DJ want to be MCSE to be able to get his machine to the point where it is locked down enough that he/she has your comfort level. I actually went that route and it didn't work. Had nothing to do with win/mac. It was just that - that system was not able to run ITCH and i didn't not want to take the machine apart and rebuild it to get it there - when for a few dollars i could have something that worked out of the box. And the mac did work out of the box.

i prefer pc's for gaming and now use that toshiba laptop to play warcraft.
DJ.AJ 8:36 PM - 16 February, 2010
oh, and i think apple is just better/smarter at making computers than any of the other computer makers.
czar 8:38 PM - 16 February, 2010
That is my point. DJ AJ. There should be no Win vs Mac argument as to which one is better other than to a personal level in which it comes down to a particular user. I want people who use Mac to respect Win users and not say crap about Windows just because it doesn't work for them. It has created a false sense amongst some that if you own a Mac you are a better or smarter DJ which is not true.
casket hands 8:43 PM - 16 February, 2010
Quote:
oh, and i think apple is just better/smarter at making computers than any of the other computer makers.

I dont think this is entirely accurate. apple sells a platform, windows sells an OS. Apple is lucky/wise to be able to design the hardware and software, thus the whole system works better as a whole than a majority of PCs.
DJ.AJ 10:22 PM - 16 February, 2010
That's my point casket.. nothing stopping microsoft from making a stable computer - they did jump headfirst into gaming and proved what they could do. And i don't think apple makes OSX i believe that came from IBM. it failed as pc platform years ago but wound up in apples hands. correct me if im wrong.
djcerla 10:29 PM - 16 February, 2010
hi DJAJ

you're wrong... OSX came from NeXT OS, the company that Steve Jobs founded when he was kicked out of Apple, then acquired to bring Steve back onboard.

NeXT computers were used to build Internet, at CERN laboratories, among other things... :)

The core is the rock-solid UNIX (same as linux).
DJ GaFFle 10:40 PM - 16 February, 2010
Quote:
...The core is the rock-solid UNIX (same as linux).

And that my friends is... [/thread]
MusicDan 10:50 PM - 16 February, 2010
Quote:
It has created a false sense amongst some that if you own a Mac you are a better or smarter DJ which is not true.


Going back again to the I can rock a party with just an ipod. It's not what you have or own or use, its how you use it.

Owning a particular brand doesn't make you better, it's just that Mac users have less problems, not that are better or smarter.
KLH 11:14 PM - 16 February, 2010
Quote:
Going back again to the I can rock a party with just an ipod. It's not what you have or own or use, its how you use it.

My iPod runs on Windows so it's better!

-KLH
djfrancov 11:24 PM - 16 February, 2010
My Mac runs windows... so it way better..lol
MusicDan 11:47 PM - 16 February, 2010
Go djfrancov, tell em!!!

I love this thread...kudos to the one who started it.
czar 1:05 AM - 17 February, 2010
shut up Dan stop giving yourself props. I was teh one to suggest we should open a thread. U want me to find the suggestion, quote it and compare it to the time and date u started this thread?
czar 1:05 AM - 17 February, 2010
lol
KLH 1:06 AM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
My Mac runs windows... so it way better..lol

Your PC runs MacOS, but should run Windows so it can [be] better! OOOOOOH!

-KLH
KLH 1:07 AM - 17 February, 2010
^ f'n lack of editing. [be] should be be
czar 1:08 AM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
My Mac runs windows... so it way better..lol

Your PC runs MacOS, but should run Windows so it can [be] better! OOOOOOH!

-KLH


lol +1
czar 1:12 AM - 17 February, 2010
lol I just installed Win7 in 20 minutes. As soon as the desktop came up (about 12-15 seconds from BIOS) I changed the wallpaper to a US theme wallpaper that changes every 10 minutes and hit internet to check it was connecting (it was), and every other driver was good to go as well. Thank you MS! =)))
DJ.AJ 2:07 AM - 17 February, 2010
Hi DJCerla you are right - that was OS2 I was thinking about :)
KLH 2:41 AM - 17 February, 2010
Will ITCH 2.0 support OS2 Warp?

-KLH
MusicDan 4:18 AM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
shut up Dan stop giving yourself props. I was teh one to suggest we should open a thread. U want me to find the suggestion, quote it and compare it to the time and date u started this thread?


czar, you got issues. You want credit for it? Go ahead take it. This isn't a competition, no one is getting a prize. I was just trying to be funny. The next time you have a "bright" idea, put it to good use. And no, I don't need a stupid quote to let me know that we had the same idea at the same time.
czar 4:38 AM - 17 February, 2010
lol
czar 4:40 AM - 17 February, 2010
I had the feeling!!!! haha chill out DANNY!!!!!!
czar 4:40 AM - 17 February, 2010
hmm I did put the lol !
MusicDan 4:59 AM - 17 February, 2010
a post later...didn't I tell you to keep all your post into 1. You confuse people...LOL!!!
czar 5:14 AM - 17 February, 2010
LOL!!!!
KLH 6:11 AM - 17 February, 2010
I don't care. On Windows, I can run two instances of ITCH with my NS7 - FOUR DECKS, BISHES!!!

-KLH
KLH 6:38 AM - 17 February, 2010
^^ Ok, that was an outright lie, but I DID get your attention, didn't I.

-KLH
Cid K 1:30 PM - 17 February, 2010
lololol :-P
Acomb-Mouse 2:02 PM - 17 February, 2010
Personal thoughts.....

I am a windows user (MCSE 2003/2008 as well as a large selection of other qualifications). I have a high performance laptop (4GB of ram, new i7 processor). I'm still buying a MBP for serato.

Y'know why ?

Because of the way apple handle application registries. The reason so much work goes into setting up windows for situations like this is compatibility.

Microsoft has the capabilities to be compatable with almost anything on the market, almost all software can be integrated modified and customised.

My MBP is going to be used for downloading music, I-Tunes and Serato/Ableton. Thats it. If I ran all the software I run on my windows laptop on my mac including all of the tools I need, it would not be a stable platform to run audio through.

All of the 'unnecessary' things you disable when setting up audio with windows are all features. They are not useless or unnecessary they are just unnecessary for the purpose you are using the laptop for.

The fact is a MBP cant do all the things I need it to. But it will do the few things I want it to do. Quickly, Simply and with almost no configuration whatsoever.

If I went to the effort to setup my windows PC properly it would be just as stable a platform with a hell of a lot more features and interoperability options than a MBP.

Fact remains I dont need any of that stuff. The way I see it my MBP wont be a computer at all. It will be a tool for audio.

I have a laptop for a multimedia workstation that can play games, that can be used to do consultancy and a hell of a lot more.

So in a nutshell.

Laptop = Fully customisable, fully compatible all singing all dancing gaming workstation.

MBP = A well made highly polished tool that wont break on my for years so long as I keep it for its true uses. i.e. downloading music and creating/playing music.

End of thread.

PS I may be a Microsoft guy. But I am lazy and not Fing stupid enough to run audio on the same machine I do 100 and 1 other things on and constantly change the configuration.

Simples!
Acomb-Mouse 2:05 PM - 17 February, 2010
I may have just started a small rebellion......
JBoogz 2:31 PM - 17 February, 2010
I have windows installed on my Mac Pro.

I've run itch on both, and they both work flawlessly. However, when I gig, I use my MBP and run OS X just for the simple fact that my clients are looking for quality, and I'm not going to rely on an operating system that takes up a majority of the service requests in this forum.

I want to pay attention to the crowd in front of me, not be bothered by whether or not my OS is going to crash.
DJ.AJ 3:28 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
Quickly, Simply and with almost no configuration whatsoever.

That's why i ate the laptop and bought a mac - still use the pc laptop for ms office and doin invoices, brochures and other business related stuff. just not for mixing. Actually, by far i prefer the PC for back office operations.
Acomb-Mouse 3:38 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Quickly, Simply and with almost no configuration whatsoever.

That's why i ate the laptop and bought a mac - still use the pc laptop for ms office and doin invoices, brochures and other business related stuff. just not for mixing. Actually, by far i prefer the PC for back office operations.


+1
czar 9:43 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
but it is also true that many professional programs only work on Mac due to its stability.


not true. sorry. It's not about "stability" It's that Apple acquired the software and made it better. Some people use Windows to create graphics amongst other things. It comes down to personal preference. There are graphic rendering applications that work faster and perform better on a Windows base than any Mac simply because of the kind of video cards and amounts of memory Win can work with. If you want to spend 5000 on an iMac to do what I can do with 1000 Win base go ahead.

Acomb is right by saying that the machine should be considered a tool and not a computer (as able to do everything u would normally do with one)

As u have pointed out Breaker. There are badly written applications that can mess with anything. lol Only if OS's were to only allowed certified software to run on their platforms then it would be a lot less likely to encounter problems along the way. =)

I am still considering a used MBP for the lit keyboard being cheaper than a new Win machine with the lit keyboard. (too hard to find a used comp with lit keyboard and Win7 right now) I like the fact that I am less likely to get spyware but I know there is, so I will keep my eyes peeled while using it and the learning curve is something that for someone like me (Win user for life) will still be a factor to consider.

However for the reason that it will be more affordable for me to get a used MBP than a Win with lit keyboard is that Im considering the MBP.

If I decide that the lit keyboard is not necessary before making a purchase I might just stick to a basic Win laptop with specifications that will be enough to run Itch at a very economical price. Core 2 Duo 2 or 2.2GHZ 2 or 3 Gig Ram and Dedicated Video with at least 256MB ram.. and of course Win7. DRIVERS!! LOL! ;) =D
DJ GaFFle 10:11 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
Personal thoughts.....

I am a windows user (MCSE 2003/2008 as well as a large selection of other qualifications). I have a high performance laptop (4GB of ram, new i7 processor). I'm still buying a MBP for serato.

Y'know why ?

Because of the way apple handle application registries. The reason so much work goes into setting up windows for situations like this is compatibility.

Microsoft has the capabilities to be compatable with almost anything on the market, almost all software can be integrated modified and customised.

My MBP is going to be used for downloading music, I-Tunes and Serato/Ableton. Thats it. If I ran all the software I run on my windows laptop on my mac including all of the tools I need, it would not be a stable platform to run audio through.

All of the 'unnecessary' things you disable when setting up audio with windows are all features. They are not useless or unnecessary they are just unnecessary for the purpose you are using the laptop for.

The fact is a MBP cant do all the things I need it to. But it will do the few things I want it to do. Quickly, Simply and with almost no configuration whatsoever.

If I went to the effort to setup my windows PC properly it would be just as stable a platform with a hell of a lot more features and interoperability options than a MBP.

Fact remains I dont need any of that stuff. The way I see it my MBP wont be a computer at all. It will be a tool for audio.

I have a laptop for a multimedia workstation that can play games, that can be used to do consultancy and a hell of a lot more.

So in a nutshell.

Laptop = Fully customisable, fully compatible all singing all dancing gaming workstation.

MBP = A well made highly polished tool that wont break on my for years so long as I keep it for its true uses. i.e. downloading music and creating/playing music.

End of thread.

PS I may be a Microsoft guy. But I am lazy and not Fing stupid enough to run audio on the same machine I do 100 and 1 other things on and constantly change the configuration.

Simples!

I don't buy what you're saying and you're make a whole lot of unfounded generalizations. MCSE doesn't mean jack in the Mac world. OSX is built based on the Unix kernel and Unix is far more stable than Windoze will ever be + it's been around probably before you were born.

Anyone relegating their MAC to just Internet/iTunes/Serato either doesn't know a Mac, its capabilities or is just shook from the nightmares they've experienced in the world of Microsoft Winfroze.

One of the best points someone above made was the fact that Mac are pretty much standardized to one hardware platform whereas Windoze has to be uber-compatible with all sorts of hardware manufacturers (good and bad). I've run across some cheap a$$ Chinese-made hardware components along with fetti drivers that gave me headaches and they weren't necessarily Microsoft's fault BUT that's what you get with an open hardware platform. You're pretty much at the mercy of the hardware's manufacturer in those cases. This in itself lends to Macs being a more stable and better computer platform for any serious professional wanting a computer.

You can never forget about the constant onslaught of hourly/daily exploits found against Microsoft's OS... Honestly, Internet Explorer is probably their biggest Achilles heal. The OS is BooBoo too... they just can't get it right.

Poll: Would u want to be hooked to a heart/lung machine running on Windows PC or Mac?

1 = Windows-based heart/lung machine
2 = Mac-based heart/lung machine

PS: Czar would need to make out his will...
Acomb-Mouse 10:25 PM - 17 February, 2010
Neither....... There is specific software for applications like that. Now that is what you call stable.
Cid K 10:26 PM - 17 February, 2010
@ CZAR Wowow again full of F$@$#@@ Nonsense... My god! I work in the gamming industry, for one of the biggest game compagny in the world, and honestly, pretty much all the Sound Engineer, Audio Designers we have and a lot of Level Artiste, Character Modeler are all on Mac computers, not cause a Mac looks sexier on a stupid desk but cause it crashes a lot less then a pc. And that my friend is FACTS. In production, launch date is very very important, like wise if PC's are to crash and need a whole rebuilt then that user looses time to finish his level and then the whole project looses a day of work from that. We get alot of pc crashes here alot more then with the Mac's computer and again this is a FACT.

It's been said milions of times, even by Serato Mod's that Apple computer are better for Pro Audio, Pro App's Like Film Editing and so on. Again this is a FACT just for you!

Get down of your horses, take a pill and chill!
czar 10:29 PM - 17 February, 2010
Gafflr if I was the one in charge of controlling Windows I would not care to be used, but in the hands of other people I would rather have Linux =D
czar 10:32 PM - 17 February, 2010
CID STOP IT. Serato MODS have ALSO said that most of Windows problems are due to user errors and configuration and a small percentage due to IRQ configurations.

To me honestly with my hand over heart. If u know what u are doing Win machine is a good tool to compliment Itch.
czar 10:35 PM - 17 February, 2010
Maybe if your professionals used Win as a tool and not a machine to also look at porn and try out whatever app comes across their face while in work time they would also have no issues with Windows. *Giggles*
czar 10:38 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
Gafflr if I was the one in charge of controlling Windows I would not care to be used, but in the hands of other people I would rather have Linux =D


haha as a matter of fact. NO OS! People somehow manage to mess up anything anyways. Just unplug me!
djcerla 1:07 AM - 18 February, 2010
Hi czar, are you using 2 user names? Looks like you have make a mistake in the switch.
djcerla 1:07 AM - 18 February, 2010
*made
MusicDan 1:11 AM - 18 February, 2010
I'm regretting ever starting this...LOL!!!
djfrancov 1:54 AM - 18 February, 2010
is he responding to him self? ...lmao
czar 2:25 AM - 18 February, 2010
?
czar 2:25 AM - 18 February, 2010
I was quoting myself. Must be the Mac damaging ur brain. =D hahahah!!!!!
KLH 4:11 PM - 18 February, 2010
So it's settled then? Windows 7 (when supported by Serato) will be better for ITCH than Snow Leopard, right?

-KLH
Cid K 7:08 PM - 18 February, 2010
YUP... And better to cook Kraft Diner and also a multi fonction ash tray!
KLH 7:25 PM - 18 February, 2010
Are you saying that Windows 7 is an ash tray or the Kraft Dinner? I assume it's the ash tray because it's multifunctional.

Anyways, back on topic. Windows is better than MacOS because it has THREE ways of achieving direct hardware access for low latency:

1. ASIO
2. DirectX
3. WaveRT

MacOS only has one - ASIO. If Steinberg ever changes the spec (like it did with ASIO 2.0), your hardware will be TOAST!

-KLH
djcerla 8:09 PM - 18 February, 2010
Ahaha ASIO on the Mac!

You are 10 years delayed, it seems. Coreaudio all the way, no shitty ASIO.
KLH 8:38 PM - 18 February, 2010
I forgot about CoreAudio - same thing! What happens when Apple changes CoreAudio to UltraNextLevelCoreAudio? You're FOOKED!

-KLH
Cid K 9:09 PM - 18 February, 2010
is till prefere my Kraft Diner in the morning :-P
djcerla 9:16 PM - 18 February, 2010
Ahahah yes if Steve Jobs kills Coreaudio we're all fucked! :D
czar 9:38 PM - 18 February, 2010
GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bumptop.com

I dont know how smart of an idea would be to run this on the gigging machine but for home or experimental use it's just fantastic. I had a similar 3D version of this for XP before but u would have to walk around and had rooms (like a 3d first person game) u could label each room say to "game room" "Office" and in each room u could have ur icons hanging on the walls for different applications.

Well this is a similar take but it's a box. I hope you like it! For both Mac and WIn

Free version and 29 dollar pro!!! =) im so happy!!!
djcerla 10:23 PM - 18 February, 2010
Microsoft Windows 7ista: an horrible memory hog: www.computerworld.com
DJ GaFFle 11:09 PM - 18 February, 2010
This is some typical Windoze news:
Jan. 21 2010
"Computerworld - Microsoft late on Wednesday confirmed that a rootkit caused Windows PCs to crash after users applied a security patch issued last week.

Only systems infected with the Alureon rootkit were incapacitated with Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) errors that prevented booting...

Within hours of the Jan. 9 release of MS10-015 and 12 other security updates, users reported that their computers wouldn't restart. Two days later, Microsoft halted automatic distribution of MS10-015..."

www.computerworld.com

This is a typical day in the daily stuggles of a MS Windoze PCs trying to patch their security holes. Face it...
czar 11:12 PM - 18 February, 2010
the only thing I have to actually face is my awesome machine! =) If u dont like Win it's ok.
czar 11:13 PM - 18 February, 2010
PUT UR HANDS UP FOR DETROIT! AND WINDOWS! PUT YOUR HANDS UP< PUT YOUR HANDS UP!!!!
czar 11:18 PM - 18 February, 2010
DJ.AJ 2:29 AM - 19 February, 2010
lmao
DJ.AJ 2:30 AM - 19 February, 2010
thanks for the warning GAFFLE - i have 2 kids machines with windows 7 not on the internet yet. at least i know what to watch out for now.
czar 3:16 AM - 19 February, 2010
DJ AJ

Win 32 bit is supported and working flawless. U dont need to upgrade windows at all to run Itch so turn auto update off and tell it to never ask u to update so u never get any messages.(Google is full of tutorials on how to do anything) Only make sure u have latest drivers for ur devices such as sound card video card.. the rest is unnecessary such as network cards u can disable them. and better yet is u disable them from the BIOS (just as ur comp first boots up look for message how to get inside BIOS) disable whatever (on-board) devices ex. network card, wireless card, on board sound. (ur NS7 or VCI will be ur sound card anyways.) (*the sound is really not necessary disabling (in case u want to still use the sound while using Itch without the controller to sort tracks) but will free even more resources) =D

I dont use my gig machine for web use, only to run my performing software (Itch)

I use another machine to download tracks, studio work, editing tracks, web use.. u get the point. then use an external Hard drive to store my music library or simply use a usb stick to transfer from my studio computer (the one with web use) to my performing machine.

I see my laptop as a "performing tool" not a computer.

I hope that gives u a little idea. As far as updates. totally not necessary hence most updates are to "fix/patch" and rewrite code on ur OS as to prevent again Web threats. If u have no web this updates are simply unnecessary, as a matter of fact DON'T install them. =)
dj wang 4:08 AM - 19 February, 2010
as i am posting i`m currently running itch and two webcams from skype my own webcam and two online chat programs and did i mention that i`m not even using 40percent of my processor oh i forgot with 1ms of latency so if that doesn`t say get your self a mac idk what does by the way i have had it a week and anyone who has a mack the first page of the manual says it all "congratulations you and your macbookpro were made for eachother"
czar 4:19 AM - 19 February, 2010
Quote:
as i am posting i`m currently running itch and two webcams from skype my own webcam and two online chat programs and did i mention that i`m not even using 40percent of my processor oh i forgot with 1ms of latency so if that doesn`t say get your self a mac idk what does by the way i have had it a week and anyone who has a mack the first page of the manual says it all "congratulations you and your macbookpro were made for eachother"


lol sorry it doesn't! hahaha
dj wang 4:21 AM - 19 February, 2010
it so does in the new manuals
czar 4:24 AM - 19 February, 2010
sorry.

Quote:
if that doesn`t say get your self a mac idk what does


there u go.

Sorry it doesn't! =D
DJ GaFFle 12:28 PM - 19 February, 2010
Quote:
...I dont use my gig machine for web use, only to run my performing software (Itch)

I use another machine to download tracks, studio work, editing tracks, web use.. u get the point. then use an external Hard drive to store my music library or simply use a usb stick to transfer from my studio computer (the one with web use) to my performing machine.

I see my laptop as a "performing tool" not a computer...

"I dont use my gig machine for web use..."

Tssk...tssk... Told ya'... classic excuse from PC DJs. Well, if that's what works for you then so be it.


...BUT, what happens when (not if) your Web/DOWNLOAD computer catches one of these many zer0-day viRuSes/exploits and you unknowingly transfer that viRuS to your unpatched-unprotected "performing tool"...?

LoL... you'll be rebuilding your OS and praying you have a recent backup.
Acomb-Mouse 12:30 PM - 19 February, 2010
Not if you have half a brain....
MusicDan 2:52 PM - 19 February, 2010
Here is a list of the worlds most respected companies. articles.moneycentral.msn.com
See who number 1 is and then scroll down to see who number 22 is.
Acomb-Mouse 3:02 PM - 19 February, 2010
Please note that over 90% of businesses only trust Microsoft software to run the company infrastructure.....

I have yet to find a company that doesnt do pure graphics, sound or video that uses anything other than a microsoft datacentre.

Most companys that use apple servers use Microsoft exchange as a mail server.

Just remember that almost everything runs on Microsoft and it works ! Sometimes in a roundabout way but it works.

Microsoft +1

PS I'm still buying a MBP for Serato
DJ Cs 3:41 PM - 19 February, 2010
Just get an intel based MAC and do both...problem solved. OS X Leopard as main, Windows 7 on Boot Camp.

Debate over.

Spoils the fun doesn't it?
DJ GaFFle 4:00 PM - 19 February, 2010
Quote:
Please note that over 90% of businesses only trust Microsoft software to run the company infrastructure.....

People are reluctant to change and most people only go with what they are familiar with. Hell, I was reluctant several years ago when I got my first Powerbook but I'm glad I did.
Most people have PCs at home
Most PCs are at poorer schools :-D
Apple is more expensive and proprietary with their hardware whereas Windows is hardware manufacturer neutral (therefore cheaper)
Microsoft backoffice Apps are SOLID (no arguments there)
...not all the reasons but just a few.

Quote:
I have yet to find a company that doesnt do pure graphics, sound or video that uses anything other than a microsoft datacentre.

I'd totally disagree here. Is Microsoft Datacentre a product?

Quote:
Most companys that use apple servers use Microsoft exchange as a mail server.

No debate with this except that there are tons of exploits with Exchange. Lotus Notes would be a much better solution from a security perspective.

Quote:
Just remember that almost everything runs on Microsoft and it works ! Sometimes in a roundabout way but it works.

Zzzzzz... Sure it works but at what cost? IT staffing for support/patches/exploit & security vulnerabilities and additional solutions to protect the shotty Windows OS from them.

Quote:
PS I'm still buying a MBP for Serato

Now you're making sense.

Yes, it's a Windows world, they have the majority of market share BUT they are not better machines than Macs. That's like arguing Ford is better than Bentley because they have more of the market share OR Gucci Mane is a better rapper than Talib Kweli cause he sells more records. LoL!
djcerla 4:02 PM - 19 February, 2010
Quote:
Of course. If I create a business and I need 50 computers for my office will not buy 50 Mac's, buy 50 computers with Windows at the lowest possible price. The money is the money.


Sadly, they will spend 3x that amount of money for IT service. It's called Microsoft tax.
DJ GaFFle 4:03 PM - 19 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Of course. If I create a business and I need 50 computers for my office will not buy 50 Mac's, buy 50 computers with Windows at the lowest possible price. The money is the money.


Sadly, they will spend 3x that amount of money for IT service. It's called Microsoft tax.

Hey... I'm a WAN/Security engineer (IT guy) so Microsoft keeps us employed! Go Microsoft !!!

Microsoft +1 :-P
Cid K 4:04 PM - 19 February, 2010
Bingo! Thank god we have Cerla on our side :-P Good Job C!
djcerla 4:06 PM - 19 February, 2010
@ DJ GaFFle

yep, you should really thank Microsoft, if Macs were used, you'd need to be a full-time DJ to pay your bills :)
Subdriven 4:20 PM - 19 February, 2010
For those that don"t have the pocket money for a good mac laying around my Windows is working good enought for me.. :)
KLH 5:12 PM - 19 February, 2010
Guys, remove the hardware from the discussion - the major brand name manufacturers (Sony, HP, Lenovo) use basically the same hardware. It's the OS that is the core difference. The Apple's Mach kernel versus Microsoft's NT kernel.

I sadly spent an hour re-familiarizing myself on Mac OS's audio architecture because I made a false statement concerning ASIO on the Mac. As it turns out, Apple's CoreAudio is a low-level direct link between the OS and an audio output. It was released (for the desktop) in 2001 with OS X.

en.wikipedia.org

Windows has similar technology in Vista and Windows 7 called WaveRT. While promising and seemingly more advanced than CoreAudio, WaveRT is new and hasn't displaced ASIO (yet). An interesting caveat is that WaveRT is limited to the PCI/PCI Express bus - so it currently does NOT work with USB and FireWire. As we all know, ASIO does - which is a key reason that Windows XP is preferred for audio apps over the newer Windows releases.

en.wikipedia.org

I must admit, I'm scratching my head at this. While admittedly, this has nothing to do with stability, it IS interesting.

-KLH
djcerla 5:15 PM - 19 February, 2010
Hi KLH

you look like someone who's getting a Mac soon ;)

... and Logic is back! :)
czar 7:27 PM - 19 February, 2010
Quote:
Here is a list of the worlds most respected companies. articles.moneycentral.msn.com
See who number 1 is and then scroll down to see who number 22 is.


Mc Donadls is number 7 pufff so much for ur respect list. Walmart number 12! LOL! Exxon Mobil 18! hahaha

I'm sory! so much for ur respect list! hahaha

Now IBM is 4. Creators of the concentration camps' accountability machines during the nazi era. hahahaha

Whatever guys u keep drinking ur cool aid. ASIO does what ur core audio does. ;)

OMG johnson & Johnson second? I could open a pandora box of nastiness from that company u want to see?

See when trolls look at anything they believe it. For example paying more for something makes them feel like they are getting a better product. =D Noo one wants to admit they just wasted their money. =]
czar 7:28 PM - 19 February, 2010
Just like Indians during Columbus times. Remember how they came to America and exchanged pieces of broken mirrors for gold ! hahaha poor indians.
czar 7:30 PM - 19 February, 2010
but go ahead please promote ur macs so much that they get in par with how many Windows machines are out there so spyware and viruses start to eat u alive. =] then a lot will see that the only difference is the shine body of the Apple products. If it weren't they would waste time making them so shiny. Instead they would argue that their machines are better and need not waste resources on how they look so much do to the fact that they would be better....
MusicDan 8:04 PM - 19 February, 2010
czar you are entertaining...
Cid K 8:06 PM - 19 February, 2010
Very!
djcerla 8:28 PM - 19 February, 2010
agreed
czar 8:36 PM - 19 February, 2010
I have had it all expensive and not so expensive in the end everything is prone to fail. The less expensive things tend to be also cheaper to fix and get in track than their counterparts. =) I'm always up for a deal. I agree that somethings are just bad, but generalizing is not wise. For example I can't wear some kinds of inexpensive shoes because my feet sweat and the inside goes bad fast. lol (true fact) but I dont go to the store and spend 200 on a pair of shoes but rather look for the good quality ones at say 50 instead of paying 20 30 for the non-quality ones. The 50 ones last me 4 times what the other ones would.

Not because a USB cable is expensive it's a good USB cable. I will also like to say that there are inexpensive shielded cables too. In my opinion his problem might even be a bad piece of equipment displacing exaggerated amounts of static electricity and there for the shielded cable masked the problem thereof "fixing" the issue..

Electronics should have a sticker that "guarantees" that that particular electronic will not cause disturbance to other operations.

The ferrite bead is put on the wire to assist the manufacturer in
meeting FCC part 15 requirements for radiated and conducted emissions.
That it also has the potential for reducing susceptibility of the
connected devices is just an added bonus, if needed at all.

en.wikipedia.org

MY $5 (shipping included) cable from "New Egg" HAS FERRITE BEAD. =D **Now it costs $7 plus 5 shipping.. That's still less than 20..

but check this www.google.com
casket hands 8:45 PM - 19 February, 2010
godwin's law rears its ugly head.
czar 8:45 PM - 19 February, 2010
lol wrong place to post i messed up the mac vs pc with the usb cable thread lol SORRY!!!!
czar 8:46 PM - 19 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Now IBM is 4. Creators of the concentration camps' accountability machines during the nazi era. hahahaha

I have this book "IBM and the Holocaust". It is hard to read because it is very technical. Many large companies were created with the ashes of innocent people. The furnaces where people are cremated were a gift from Siemens to Hitler and the prisoner transport trucks were Mercedes.


Yea it's true..
czar 8:51 PM - 19 February, 2010
Quote:
If this continues I´ll change my DJ name to DJ Forest Gump.


that story is sad.
Cid K 9:36 PM - 19 February, 2010
and ill change mine to Dj Win 7 was My Idea!
Subdriven 4:03 PM - 20 February, 2010
Quote:
and ill change mine to Dj Win 7 was My Idea!


watch out there are a few other people that might want to steal and use your name...... :)
Cid K 4:15 PM - 20 February, 2010
Lololol :-P
The Reverand 4:52 PM - 21 February, 2010
I'll just throw this one out here cause I don't think I have seen anyone post it yet.

The best Mac's I have ever used weren't built by Apple. :D
djcerla 4:53 PM - 21 February, 2010
Quote:
The best Mac's I have ever used weren't built by Apple. :D


Can happen carolynncarreno.files.wordpress.com
The Reverand 4:58 PM - 21 February, 2010
djceria, your a smart ass after my own heart.
KLH 8:52 PM - 21 February, 2010
Wait a minute, which side am I on? ;)

-KLH
MusicDan 10:50 PM - 21 February, 2010
KHL, in a criminal trial you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the person is guilty. If not you have to acquit. I think you cant prove beyond reasonable doubt that Win is better...If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!!!
KLH 11:14 PM - 21 February, 2010
I KNOW I can't prove that Windows is BETTER than Mac OS, but I seriously want to establish that Windows can achieve the same performance level as the Mac OS.

Enough with the calm talk. Let's get back to bashing.

Snow Leopard doesn't even make sense. Windows 7 makes sense.

-KLH
MusicDan 11:46 PM - 21 February, 2010
Quote:


Price implies value. Win7 is more expensive because it's a (*ahem*) true update of Vista. Snow Leopard is just an incremental upgrade...
-KLH


SL is just an incremental upgrade and Win 7 is a true update of Vista. Why do you think that is? It goes back to the old saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Vista was a disaster, which is why they needed to come out with 7 so quick. And from what I've seen, Win 7 looks allot like Vista. I guess that's why allot of people call it 7ista. So which one was the less expensive incremental update???

Hey you wanted to start the bashing again my brother.
The Reverand 11:48 PM - 21 February, 2010
MusicDan, OJing out doesn't help you win the civil trial. :)
But seriously. I like both OSes. But I will say this, Apple's hardware is garbage. Their computers use crap components and are poorly assembled. Anyone who has had a look inside a MBP can tell you that. Especially in the 1st and 2nd gen models. I can't tell you how many I have seen die from thermal paste sloped around or poorly routed cables. It always made me happy to tell people about their $3000 paper weight from poor manufacturing, especially when it happened to me. Their Desktops are better, but not much. I will say Apple has made some strides to rectify these things, probably from the amount of money they were shelling out in replacement parts. But their road back is long. I still have a MBP, and I like it. But in 2 years, Apple has replaced the Mobo twice, and that required threating to take our discussion to the Attorney General's office, twice.
Again I like OSX, but Macs are trash.
ontime1269 12:50 AM - 22 February, 2010
I was wasting some time today looking around in Fry's electronics. I was shopping for a Hard Drive. I decided to just take a look at the laptops to see what they had available and if there were any good sales. In Fry's, there is a section that just has apple products.

I stopped and looked around. The first laptop I came upon was a Mac Book Pro that cost $2299. I was floored by the price versus what you get. I'm a 'bang for the buck shopper". There was no bang in that Mac I looked at. It had a nice processor and good sized HD but that was about it. I didn't look in depth at the rest of the specs because it was lacking other stuff that I must have on a potential laptop for me.

I require a number pad and 4 USB ports for any laptop that I consider buying. I believe the mac had 2 or it might have had 3 USB's. It didn't have a number pad. For $2299 I would expect it to have all the bells & whistles.

In my opinion, Apple just plays it safe with their products. They don't push the envelope, you just get the basics. That may not be a bad thing. Maybe that is why "Macs just work" or whatever. For my $2299, I would want more. I don't have any experience with Macs, and maybe there are other things within that Mac that I don't know about that may justify the price but I couldn't get past the obvious features that I would want. I would feel raped if I bought that laptop. Macs suck, bang for the buck.
MusicDan 1:17 AM - 22 February, 2010
Those who bash Macs, usually cannot afford Macs. Are you going to spend $2299 on a Win laptop? As you can see, allot more people here have success using Macs than Win based PCs. Do you want to pay $2299 for a Mac that just works, or $2299 for Win based machine that you have to tweak the hell out of and pray that it works.

BTW, I own a Macbook that cost me $999, and it works flawlessly with Itch. You don't need to spend $2299. And you are comparing Apples to Oranges, no pun intended. I love biting into an apple, you can't do that with an Orange, you have to peel it first, allot more work isn't it? That's why I only drink OJ (hey that's the second OJ reference in this topic). Meaning that I use a PC but only for work. UL is anti-apple as are many here...
MusicDan 1:27 AM - 22 February, 2010
From another topic...

Quote:

The screenshots are from a MAC.


Even Serato knows that Macs are better, which is why they use Screenshots from a Mac and not a Windoze Machine...
czar 1:48 AM - 22 February, 2010
Quote:
have to tweak the hell out of and pray that it works.


Tweaking is not that much once u know what to do, and as far as praying, I wouldn't understand that coming from someone who thinks tweaking the machine is a "hell" lot.

Trust me any one can afford a Mac with a credit card. I can if I wanted to.
czar 1:48 AM - 22 February, 2010
Quote:
Those who bash Macs, usually cannot afford Macs.
ha
ontime1269 2:11 AM - 22 February, 2010
I can afford a Mac but there is not a Mac on the market that has the specs I want in my laptop. No, I wouldn't spend $2299 on a windows laptop. I wouldn't have to. I got what I needed in a laptop for a little over $600.

Today, if I was gonna spend $2299 on a laptop, I would get his one and have money left over:

www.toshibadirect.com

I wouldn't be able to find a Mac with the specs of that PC, so I would have to settle for this Mac:

www.frys.com

On paper, can you guys honestly say that a Mac, bang for the buck, is a better buy than a PC.
Subdriven 2:22 AM - 22 February, 2010
I just tried to build a mac on the apple site. Very few options, get what you need I guess. Ended up close to 4k.... Then i built a Dell.. TONS of stuff to choose from. Left alot of unneeded stuff out but upgraded everything I really needed. Ended up at close to 6k!!
The Reverand 2:28 AM - 22 February, 2010
Can't be done. You can buy PC laptops with much higher specs than the $999 Macbook for $599. I can afford Mac. I just don't feel like paying $400 more for crap hardware. The quality of their OS is all fine and good. But their hardware just can't compare to the PC competition. Subdriven, I call shenanigans on that. What systems are you comparing? Mac Pro to Precision?
The Reverand 2:30 AM - 22 February, 2010
I should again state I know the quality of Apple hardware from experience. I have bought Mac and I probably won't do it again.
Subdriven 2:45 AM - 22 February, 2010
Yea.. guess that isn't realy a comparison... a high end small buisness laptop to a mac pro.
The Reverand 3:06 AM - 22 February, 2010
Given the price disparity, I'd say the differences in your comparison are more substantive than that.
MusicDan 3:32 AM - 22 February, 2010
Funny I bough a PowerBook in 2004, and it died in 2008. I bought an HP for the wife in 2007 and it sucked. She was complaining every 5 minutes. I tried everything to make it work to her liking and mine. Ended up buying an iMac for her. It's been a year and no problems. I have had my MacBook since 2008 and no problems...Crappy hardware, don't think so.

The argument here isn't hardware, it's software. OS to be exact.
Here is what czar pointed out to us.

Quote:


mac=2
Win=1

yes, Win. not pc... macs are pc's too.


The argument is that Macs are better at running itch than windoze, or 7ista...

You guys can keep arguing all you want. Mr. Reverand, how many apple computers did you own? If you are basing your facts on 1 alone then you have no case. My father in law bought a Dell in 2001, in 2002 he had to get it replaced by Dell because it sucked. He then had that refurbished computer, the one he got in 2002, until early this year. Every once in a while you get a bad apple.

Man I am on fire with my puns...
The Reverand 3:48 AM - 22 February, 2010
Mr Reverand. Thats a new one. I think my father was Mr Reverand. :)
I am hired geek. I have repaired tons of Macs, from the PowerMac till today. Apple's hardware quality has been on a downward trend since I first fixed one. In the old machines, you could see someone gave a crap about what they were building, but their component quality was in the toilet. Now when you open a Mac you see all sorts of just straight sloppy work. And their component quality is as bad as ever, if not worse. I give exception to their screens, Apple spares no expense on those babies.
If you haven't had problems, hey good for you, even junk can get the job done. I have seen plenty of poorly manufactured PC's with substandard components live long lives. Many Dells and Gateways. That is still no excuse for building with cheap parts and jacking the price up.
The Reverand 3:49 AM - 22 February, 2010
I bought Mac because I expected better after the Intel switch up. I had friends and colleagues tell me great things about the NEW Apple quality. What a joke.
KLH 4:14 AM - 22 February, 2010
Quote:
Even Serato knows that Macs are better, which is why they use Screenshots from a Mac and not a Windoze Machine...

That's not true, see the quote below.

Quote:
This is Matt-C from Serato and I want to say that you should by a Windows machine because they have more colors. They run our products 100x faster than any Mac that's ever been made. I have three laptops that run a different version of Windows and I can honestly say that I like them way more than anything Apple's made. Don't get AMD laptops though. They suck raw *ss.


See? Even Matt-C says that Windows is the best... except for AMD laptops though!

Let's check that score:

Mac: 4
Windows: 9,323,492, 483,608.7 (one guy is leaning toward getting a PC)

-KLH
MusicDan 4:16 AM - 22 February, 2010
KLH, you wanted me to get more involved in this topic, I did. Now I am done for today. Goodnight yall...
czar 4:23 AM - 22 February, 2010
I have AMD and it kicks raw lol the athlon might not be all that but the Phenom... Believe me!!
djcerla 1:12 AM - 2 March, 2010
feeling lucky?

Watchwww.youtube.com
casket hands 1:54 AM - 2 March, 2010
I think there should have definitely been a step of him googling porn over and over before the "why is my computer slowing down?" step.
KLH 3:42 PM - 4 March, 2010
REVIVED because Windows sold more copies than Snow Leopard.

-KLH
djcerla 3:45 PM - 4 March, 2010
Of course they sold more! 97% computers worldwide run Windows! :D

The big news is Steam is coming to the Mac: www.macrumors.com

The last real advantage of PCs (gaming) will soon fade away. ;-)
czar 3:51 PM - 4 March, 2010
just for fun. =D

forums.macrumors.com
czar 3:57 PM - 4 March, 2010
I will be long before MAC has available all the games Windows has. Dont forget that MS makes games. Good ones too. Xbox 360
DJ.AJ 4:01 PM - 4 March, 2010
macs cost to much - not worth buying a mach for gaming.
DJ.AJ 4:02 PM - 4 March, 2010
thankfully apple doesn't have that go for the jugular attitude
KLH 4:34 PM - 4 March, 2010
I'm taking a different view of Mac versus PC. IMHO, the comparison should be Windows 7 versus Snow Leopard - specifically how the different driver models address interrupt handling. According to many, THAT feature is what DEFINES performance in ALL operating systems. Since the hardware is the same, this should be an Apples to apples comparison (I couldn't help the pun).

Stating the obvious, Microsoft has purposely designed it's Windows Driver Model to open Windows to more hardware options than Apple's Snow Leopard. It seems that this openness is the primary reason that performance is so hit-or-miss on the Windows platform. There are simply too many devices with less than optimal drivers that impact the stability of Windows. The drivers that consistently impede performance in Windows are the video card, network, and sound interface drivers. As such, Windows real time performance is limited to the weakest link in the chain.

It could be that Macs have the same limitation. However, it does seem that Apple demands that their drivers for video cards, network, and sound interfaces "work well" together before releasing them to the public. That may change as gaming becomes more popular on the Mac, but as it stands, drivers (when released) tend to be more stable in the Mac OSes than what is released for Windows.

I suppose that you can make the argument that practically, Snow Leopard is "better" than Windows 7 because of the Mac being a closed platform. However, I really want readers to understand that at the end of the day both Windows and Snow Leopard are equally capable of performing very well... Windows just might require more hands-on to achieve it.

-KLH
I1Kirm 4:41 PM - 4 March, 2010
Quote:
feeling lucky?


I can play that game too!

lmgtfy.com
lmgtfy.com
lmgtfy.com
lmgtfy.com
lmgtfy.com
lmgtfy.com
KLH 12:19 AM - 5 March, 2010
I'm bumping this so people post here instead of that other useless thread.

-KLH
Cid K 12:19 AM - 5 March, 2010
Good stuff bro :-)
dj wang 12:41 AM - 5 March, 2010
ok i was a pc user till i got my MBP three weeks ago now i can`t stand anything else and i`m sure any other mac users are the same way people bashing macs just do`nt get it macs are an amazing machine and may not have the biggest processor or all the bells and whistles you think of but take a low end make book pro and set it up against a pc with more ram and a faster processor and see what happens lol it will get crushed by mac
The Reverand 12:59 AM - 5 March, 2010
Quote:
take a low end make book pro and set it up against a pc with more ram and a faster processor and see what happens lol it will get crushed by mac

If your high on crack and cock your head sideways, maybe.

Quote:
people bashing macs just do`nt get it

If by that you mean your inability to use punctuation then you're spot on, I don't get it.

Ultimately this a pointless debate. Until a single PC manufacturer rules them all, controls the OS and hardware, and starts price gauging there is no common ground.

(I'm gonna a get flammed for that one)
Boom Bap 8:22 AM - 5 March, 2010
Who cares, if it works it works....
djcerla 1:47 PM - 5 March, 2010
Apple most admired company in the world, according to Fortune Magazine: money.cnn.com

It's the 3rd time in a row.
djcerla 1:52 PM - 5 March, 2010
Beleaguered Microsoft down to 11th place ;-)
djcerla 2:08 PM - 5 March, 2010
PS: AAPL stock has just broken its all-time high today.

Microsoft hit its all-time high of $58 in 2000. Fast forward to 2010: Microsoft shares are worth $28, mirroring the lack of innovation and inability of the company to reinvent itself beyond the usual cash cows (Windows, Office), despite the me-too attempts (namely Xbox, Zune, Bing!) that are losing billions and billions every year (yes, even the Xbox is still a losing business). Well done, Ballmer! :-D
Cid K 2:12 PM - 5 March, 2010
Wooooooohoooooooooooo :-P Gota Love Apple :-P
KLH 8:58 PM - 5 March, 2010
Quote:
I know this is the fastest way to start a heated debate here but... I'm currently using a HPG70 and ITCH with my NS7. My situation is this though: I want to add another laptop that will be used exclusively to run ITCH and use with the NS7. All personal computing, web browsing, etc. will continue to be done on current laptop. All music used in ITCH will be stored on external HD. While I know Macbook Pro is the standard around here, I can't always "drive the Benz." so I need a good '"VW". I am approaching this strictly from a financial over performance point of view at this time. So the question is: What would be the most basic system I can buy for the lowest cost to run JUST my ITCH software on? (Basic as in OS and ITCH software only) Until I can afford a MBP anyway...

Most here would say to get a used MBP.

-KLH
PHANTIA 11:59 AM - 6 March, 2010
Hi,
question for the serato team.
user of the VCI 300 with an old TITANIUM G4 (usb 1.1,there's to much troubles with), i'm gonna change that laptop, and before buying another one i want to know if your company develop an itch version for the ipad. the tactile tech to select a sound or navigate into the itch interface could interest me...
do you have a fresh info about that...

Thanks
djcerla 12:19 PM - 6 March, 2010
Quote:
i want to know if your company develop an itch version for the ipad


Only words from Serato about the iPad: "disappointed" (I don't remember which moderator it was, search the iPad thread). So, I think the straigth answer is "nope".

But they'll soon realize, as many early bashers are slowly realizing, that being out of the iPad bandwagon wouldn't be a good idea at all. That one device is going to take the world by storm.

Just look at those data showing that the level of interest for the device is WAY BIGGER than what used to be for the iPhone launch: www.investorplace.com
KLH 5:16 PM - 8 March, 2010
MB/MBPs are horrible because they have a big lit apple on their cover.

-KLH
Cid K 5:23 PM - 8 March, 2010
Lolol :-P And now all Laptop Brand are doing just that, putting lights on the cover. Almost all compagnies are stealing Apple's idea's :-P
I1Kirm 6:12 PM - 8 March, 2010
Yeah, everybody steals Apple's ideas... except from the only idea Apple discovered on its own: milking cash from their customers in every way possible!
PHANTIA 6:20 PM - 8 March, 2010
to
Quote:
Yeah, everybody steals Apple's ideas... except from the only idea Apple discovered on its own: milking cash from their customers in every way possible!


yes of cours to keep what we buy, a more long time
I1Kirm 6:39 PM - 8 March, 2010
really? I don't get it... I bought a dvi to vga cable many years ago and it still works on every PC with a dvi port. On the other hand my mini-dvi to vga port only works for a specific generation of MBPs and it's useless now, the same way my mini-display port to DVI adapter will be useless in a couple of years...
djcerla 7:46 PM - 9 March, 2010
Macs WAY less expensive than PCs to manage: survey www.cio.com

The truth slowly emerges. No wonder Apple shares hit another all-time high today.
I1Kirm 10:30 PM - 9 March, 2010
Cerlia
Enterprise Desktop Alliance is a collaboration of companies trying to push Macs inside enterprises. Their tag-line is "The intergrated Mac". This "survey" is just the first part of an well directed advertisement. The second part is a survey from the same alliance that states various difficulties enterprises meet when trying to use Mac in their networks:
Quote:
According to another recent Enterprise Desktop Alliance survey, chief among those hurdles are: security and file sharing between operating systems, client management, backup and data recovery of Mac files, Active Directory integration, application compatibility, configuration consistency, cross-platform help desk and knowledge base support, and standard management utilities for both Macs and PCs...

In other words Enterprise Desktop Alliance says "Hey is cheaper to run Macs on the long run, but only if you use the solutions we offer".

Also, next time try to read past the title (or the first page) of the article you cite. In this specific case you would have noticed that there are several issues with Macs in enterprises that actually make their management costlier that PCs.
djcerla 10:33 PM - 9 March, 2010
hi I1Kirm

your explanation is way too logical and articulated, so please, just tease and blood on this topic! :D
I1Kirm 10:40 PM - 9 March, 2010
Sorry about that...
Actually their is no need to be logical... Macs are just not good for enterprises... period... they just suck in the enterprise world... their only real advantage is bootcamp and VMware or Parallels. The only people using Macs in enterprises are cocky CEOs that don't need a PC anyway, they have secretaries (that run PCs)

PS you should have kept your shares... bad timing mate...
djcerla 10:54 PM - 9 March, 2010
Quote:
PS you should have kept your shares... bad timing mate...


if you go to the iPad topic, you'll read one of my posts saying "I thought that after the keynote the shares would drop 5% or more", and obviously if you expect a drop, you sell! This doesn't implies I did not start to buy back after the big drop... :)

Other times I've totally missed the timing (i.e. I had the shares during the horrible 2009 lows), but this time I've nailed it like Warren Buffett :D
KLH 3:23 AM - 10 March, 2010
Let's not discuss enterprise usage trends. Let's at LEAST agree to keep to audio related usage.

How many times have Mac users had to reload the OS? Do you Mac OS guys run any anti-malware programs?

On a PC, I've replaced my standard issue laptop drive with a larger one so that I can partition it and run two independent instances of Windows. I use one installation for work (it has Office, networking, anti-malware, etc). On my second Windows install, I have disabled most services (including networking) and only have iTunes and ITCH installed.

-KLH
djcerla 1:38 AM - 11 March, 2010
BREAKING: Apple’s Mac dominates Consumer Reports desktop and notebook support rankings

Consumer Reports today gave Apple a major lead in its rankings for both desktop and notebook technical support," Electronista reports.

"Among more than 7,000 readers, Apple's help scored 87 and 86 points in each category and was much higher-rated than any other computer manufacturer," Electronista reports. "Lenovo came closest in notebooks with just 63 points, while Dell fell far behind in desktops with a 55-point score."

www.electronista.com
djcerla 1:40 AM - 11 March, 2010
Mac: you get what you pay for.
ontime1269 2:21 AM - 11 March, 2010
Wow....I applaud Apple for having good support!!! But, sounds like a lot of people having problems though.......lol. What's up with that? I thought you all said that "Macs just work".
czar 2:26 AM - 11 March, 2010
apple NEEDS to take care of their customers.
djcerla 4:10 PM - 12 March, 2010
Apple overtakes Wal-Mart to become the #3 biggest company in the US, behind Exxon and Microsoft (approaching MS market cap fast). brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com
czar 12:53 AM - 17 March, 2010
Bite the forbidden APPLE! GET WINDOWS!

Watchwww.youtube.com
Subdriven 1:05 AM - 17 March, 2010
As a dedicated PC user I know I can't run Itch with that is going on in the background.....

But damn.. that looks cool as hell!
djfrancov 1:10 AM - 17 March, 2010
ITs called WIN-linux ... come on czar... linux can already do that!!! finally realize that the mac-linux way is better?!!!!!
czar 1:11 AM - 17 March, 2010
????????
czar 1:17 AM - 17 March, 2010
lol since when is mac-linux lol... The last time I tried Linux it was poor on comparison to Windows.. it might have improved a lot.. who cares I just wanted to flame a bit. ;) FIRE!
czar 1:20 AM - 17 March, 2010
go with the flow get WINDOWS!
czar 1:21 AM - 17 March, 2010
Linux cant run my games and a lot of other software properly so NO LINUX!
I1Kirm 1:32 AM - 17 March, 2010
Quote:
ITs called WIN-linux ... come on czar... linux can already do that!!! finally realize that the mac-linux way is better?!!!!!

Lol
There is not such thing as Win-Linux. This is just Windows 7 with a bunch of applications (Switcher, NexusDock and one more that I can't recall right now) and a custom made visual theme. As for the moving background it is just Dreamscene aka video for wallpaper.
czar 1:48 AM - 17 March, 2010
Watchwww.youtube.com

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Watchwww.youtube.com

"I couldn't find the "ANY" Key and E-Machines told me to go F. Myself!"

HAHAHAHAHAHHA
czar 1:48 AM - 17 March, 2010
djfrancov 10:47 AM - 17 March, 2010
What I was trying to say that Linux could already do that before windows 7... again windows copying other OS that are more stable, smart move.
Cid K 12:45 PM - 17 March, 2010
That is SOOO true :-P
djcerla 12:50 PM - 17 March, 2010
Windows is a mess.

Microsoft should do what they did with Windows Mobile: start from scratch with a fresh project.

But they simply can't, because losing compatibility with their huge installed base would mean suicide. That's the historical catch 22 for the company.
I1Kirm 1:00 PM - 17 March, 2010
Quote:
What I was trying to say that Linux could already do that before windows 7... again windows copying other OS that are more stable, smart move.

Quote:
That is SOOO true :-P


This is misleading. The X-Windows (GUI) of Linux (KDE, Gnome) is much more buggy than the GUI of Windows or Mac. The core of Linux is stable enough but again not always.

And Windows didn't copied the features off the video from Linux. Other users tried to incoporate them into Windows by building spesific apps
I1Kirm 10:56 AM - 18 March, 2010
Lol
DJ.AJ 1:41 PM - 18 March, 2010
i have had my mac for nearly a year and i have never seen the OS crash. There were an app or 2 that crashed but never the OS - like a blue screen or something. But i don't use it with a variety of software like i do my PC's. would be interesting to see if how MACs would respond under the same usage of a PC.
DJ.AJ 1:41 PM - 18 March, 2010
if you know of any studies - please post links
I1Kirm 2:20 PM - 18 March, 2010
I had 2 "kernel panics" (read OSX's bluescreens) since the day I bought mine (about 8 months ago). Nothing is unbreakable
Subdriven 4:41 PM - 18 March, 2010
IF you think about it.. most of you guys useing a Mac are using it to run itch and music software. Would be interesting to see what you guys use as a normal everyday computer and what kinda stress you put it under... I have 3 PC's and no mac's.. 1 for Itch, 1 for work and 1 home desktop...
I1Kirm 4:47 PM - 18 March, 2010
I also use it for casual serfing while on the couch. The reasons I prefer it over my PCs is its light weight and the SUPREME trackpad, definitely the best thing about Makbook pros.
djcerla 4:50 PM - 18 March, 2010
Glass multifinger trackpad rulez.
Cid K 4:50 PM - 18 March, 2010
I use a iMac 27in Quad as my every day computer, i used to have a first Gen Intel Mac Pro.

I stop using a regular pc 5 years ago and i will honestly never go back, i know i pay more for my computer and i could probably get 3 pc's MAXED out for the same price as a Mac Pro but i honestly dont give a $%#$%# hhehehe

My studio just work and never failed me since i made the switch.
Cid K 4:51 PM - 18 March, 2010
Yeah the Glass Multi Touch Gesture trackpad is ASWME :-D i aslo like the new magic mouse, took a while to get used to it but now i cant live without it!
djcerla 4:54 PM - 18 March, 2010
for those really hating Steve Jobs: (DISCLAIMER: nauseating content) --> www.macdailynews.com
djcerla 4:55 PM - 18 March, 2010
uh oh... macdailynews.com
I1Kirm 5:01 PM - 18 March, 2010
Creepy.. lol
I1Kirm 5:02 PM - 18 March, 2010
Quote:
I also use it for casual serfing while on the couch. The reasons I prefer it over my PCs is its light weight and the SUPREME trackpad, definitely the best thing about Makbook pros.

I forgot to mention battery life, although my Thinkpad can compete with that
Cid K 5:04 PM - 18 March, 2010
Yeah battery life sucks abit i have to admit, but either way after 2-3 hours of work on the laptop am FED up and just shut it down, when REAL work needs to be done i do it on the iMac.
I1Kirm 9:00 PM - 18 March, 2010
BetterTouchTools is also really cool and free
Cid K 9:17 PM - 18 March, 2010
Wowow nice will try it out tonight, thanks very much bro :-D
czar 10:24 PM - 18 March, 2010
even 200 dollar EEE PC has multitouch track pads...

As far as usage habits. I refuse to pay a higher premium so I can browse porn and untrusted sites and have less of a risk.
czar 11:31 PM - 18 March, 2010
a screenshot at my usage habits...

img246.imageshack.us
I1Kirm 11:35 PM - 18 March, 2010
czar I still haven't used a trackpad that can compete with the MBP. It's good to open your eyes some times and face the truth.
djcerla 11:39 PM - 18 March, 2010
czar is right

(I mean,he's obviously wrong but "Mac vs. PC debate" is the right place for nonsense like that)
czar 11:59 PM - 18 March, 2010
directly attacking me hehe nice
czar 11:59 PM - 18 March, 2010
and I have indeed used a mac trackpad... maybe its u that needs to try something else..
czar 12:00 AM - 19 March, 2010
are those two screen names belonging to the same person? heck some crazy people would even buy products to have multiple screen names if serial numbers were required...
czar 12:00 AM - 19 March, 2010
sick.
czar 12:03 AM - 19 March, 2010
czar 12:05 AM - 19 March, 2010
BTW the "track pad is the button" is OLD news.. any Laptop can do it.. MULTI TOUCH AND tap the track pad to click..
czar 12:10 AM - 19 March, 2010
Oh yea double click too. or hold and drag.. a simple application lets me play with pictures drop pictures to the side, stack them, enlarge them.. u get the picture.. right? also google earth works nicely. hmm problems might be u guys are too unconscious about other computers than macs hence u think ur macbooks are really innovative and unique when they aren't at all. Oh yea paying a premium to be have a little less threat risk.. a "glass" track pad. (lol) ,. and a hmm child proof OS (not really) . is really unnecessary.. and quite wasteful if u spend twice or three times what u would spend on a WINDOWS.. but to each his own right.
MusicDan 12:45 AM - 19 March, 2010
7 posts in a row, is that your record?
czar 12:55 AM - 19 March, 2010
hehehe hehehe lol I did think about it after I finished,, heck i doesnt matter.. if its one or 7.. oh wait WINDOWS 7!!! hehehe hehehehehehe nah man lol I guess the only difference from posting one long post or 7 small ones are the separator bars..
czar 1:04 AM - 19 March, 2010
Truth is you guys are missing out on a great OS.
Cid K 1:30 AM - 19 March, 2010
Quote:
LMAO news.cnet.com


Dude thats from 2008... My God bro firmware update fixed that long time ago!
MusicDan 4:00 AM - 19 March, 2010
Just in case you didn't see it on the other post..

Quote:
Truth is you guys are missing out on a great OS.


Great OS? What are you talking about? 10 days into Windows 7 and my father in law got the BSOD. There is nothing great about that buddy...
czar 4:41 AM - 19 March, 2010
no point on arguing. CID that was supposed to be for fun... just to show that Apple has problems just like any OS and any electronic... fixed or not Apple is not perfect. And like Mac gets "fixed" Win does too. ;] danny get the man a Harley he might have more fun.. or get him linux.. ;] point click use.. linux is perfect for little technical knowledge people.. I wonder what he did to get a blue screen hehe =D I REALLY DO. :P I mean i dont care but he must have messed with something.. as I said get him LINUX and make sure to have something very light like a media player and a browser and thats it.. lol
kraal 10:15 PM - 27 March, 2010
Quote:
IF you think about it.. most of you guys useing a Mac are using it to run itch and music software. Would be interesting to see what you guys use as a normal everyday computer and what kinda stress you put it under... I have 3 PC's and no mac's.. 1 for Itch, 1 for work and 1 home desktop...

4 macs no pc's for work,art ,music,and home
djshem 6:23 PM - 28 March, 2010
Wrong Mac's are for everything. Simply because if you are running some sort of professional software lets say's CADS or MLS or whatever you can can partition the hard drive and install windows 7 and just restart to switch back and fourth. If thats annoying, you can just get parallels and run both OS at the same time. To me having a reliable system combined with the amazing tech sport if anything does arise is why Apple is on top. So now you can use or do anything you did on your pc including getting viruses lol... u'll probably learn to stay on the mac side, most major software titles are supported on osx anyways.

About Linux, i'll give credit to ppl who know how to use it and run it efficently. Linux beauty is nasty but really, you need a massive powerhouse to even run the damn os loll, it is sick tho.. Overall OSX is more user freindly.
djshem 6:25 PM - 28 March, 2010
Oh and to add some credibility to my post, i've owned a power mac g4 back in the year 2000, yeah um it never died or had a virus on it, used it for 6 years and just never crapped out. But by then u'll just want a new machine lol I currently own a mac mini, and macbook pro.
DJ GaFFle 12:46 PM - 1 April, 2010
Quote:
Oh and to add some credibility to my post, i've owned a power mac g4 back in the year 2000, yeah um it never died or had a virus on it, used it for 6 years and just never crapped out. But by then u'll just want a new machine lol I currently own a mac mini, and macbook pro.

I use a MBPro and a Powebook G4 for my DJ setups but have a Windows XP PC for the home (purchased circa 2000). The video card is failing on the PC, it's been rebuilt 3x due to trojans/viruses, it runs dog slow especially considering the external firewalls/trojan/spyware programs that run resident.

I'm gonna eventually get an iMac for home use.
czar 4:03 AM - 2 April, 2010
I predict <---lol by 2015/ 2020 Apple will lose its advantage of "threat free" from new ways of attacking multiple platforms at the same time (currently on the works, hybrid viruses, Trojans, spyware) =]

I love speculating hehe
Kmxorbit 8:20 AM - 2 April, 2010
the more popular apple gets, the more treats will be developed...
djcerla 10:27 AM - 2 April, 2010
Quote:
the more popular apple gets, the more treats will be developed...


Apple is already huge. To put Apple in prospect, the company is now worth more than 7x Dell, and is closing fast on Microsoft market capitalization brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com to become the #2 company in the US, behind Exxon.

An hacker capable of writing a working virus/trojan (not a proof-of-concept but a real treat) for Mac/iPhone/iPad would get the utmost publicity.

This is why the "security-thru-obscurity" theory is flawed, and has actually proven wrong.
Kmxorbit 10:30 AM - 2 April, 2010
Quote:
An hacker capable of writing a working virus/trojan (not a proof-of-concept but a real treat) for Mac/iPhone/iPad would get the utmost publicity.

Lets hope that will never happen...
djcerla 10:32 AM - 2 April, 2010
Sure.

Let's enjoy our antivirus-free, hippy Mac-life until it lasts (czar could be right on 2015-2020).
czar 11:49 PM - 2 April, 2010
Apple is big money wise but not market wise. Hackers attack Windows to obtain credit card and personal info from victims, not to attack MS!..

I see MS and Apple joining forces sooner or later..
czar 12:46 AM - 3 April, 2010
break a leg i mean breakmixer: lol ;]

It is easier to steal from a larger pool ! You obviously dont understand much about it..

LOL all you want..
czar 12:55 AM - 3 April, 2010
ay ay ay didnt call u idiot you are just being funny so whatever,, of course apple users have info but who wants to steal from 5-10 percent of population than 90-95 percent? I think u can get a LOT more personal info from 90-95 percent no?

www.freerepublic.com

blogs.computerworld.com
czar 12:55 AM - 3 April, 2010
a lot of mac users are kids anyways
czar 2:23 AM - 3 April, 2010
believe what u want brother. It takes a minute to research who Miller is...

blogs.zdnet.com

"It’s really simple. Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs don’t do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You don’t have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you’d find in Windows.

It’s more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesn’t have anti-exploit stuff built into it."

news.cnet.com

""I had a feeling that Mac was easier (to hack) than Windows," he said. "If I can find the Safari bug or exploit in a few days and it would take me 10 times as long for IE, why would I do that? I go after the easiest guy."
Miller comes from a Linux and Windows background and is relatively new to the Mac platform because he worked in the financial and government sector before becoming a security whiz.
After getting a Ph.D. in mathematics at the University of Notre Dame, Miller worked at the U.S. National Security Agency for five years. Hired as a cryptographer, Miller pushed for computer security training because he was "looking for something else to do.""

Just let me know if u want a coffee and a media luna with that. as a matter of fact go get it yourself.
MusicDan 2:56 AM - 8 April, 2010
I'm bringing it back!!!

+1 if you want czar to comment 2 more time in this thread so that he can reach 100 comments!!!

It will make him sleep better at night! ;-)
Cid K 1:15 PM - 8 April, 2010
Lololll :-P
czar 3:17 PM - 8 April, 2010
again not one valid interesting point to argue about. you are talking about my ability to sleep and not the threads title subject.
Otter 7:02 PM - 8 April, 2010
Safari is application. That is a comparision of web browser to web browser. I know there are exploits for Safari, but Explorer has had way more.

For general OS security
1) Windows secuirty is built ontop of the OS
2) Mac secuirty is built into the OS (it is based on Darwin which is a Unix)

So it is easier to write secure software on a mac. But just because it is eaiser doesn't mean they will. /dev/null
czar 7:14 PM - 8 April, 2010
"Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs don’t do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You don’t have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you’d find in Windows."

blogs.zdnet.com
Otter 8:23 PM - 8 April, 2010
You are going to use zdnet? Why don't you go to some of the white hat and black hat forums and figure out what they are exploting more?

yes explorer has had way more attacks because it is on a more popular OS (Windows). And Safari might have currently a easier expliot. But a Windows VS a MAC machine is much easier to attack.

Unix has protection an kernel level and a file level. Even Windows 7 at a base level is still easier to attack than a mac (and is a 100 times more secure compared to Vista).

I currently use Mac OS Snow Leopard, Windows Vista (forced on my by work), Ubuntu Linux, Gentoo Linux, BSD, etc, etc. This is my own opnion of course, but one that comes from experiece from working on these OSs.
MusicDan 9:20 PM - 8 April, 2010
Quote:
again not one valid interesting point to argue about. you are talking about my ability to sleep and not the threads title subject.


You are so easy to bait.

It's officially 100!!!
Otter 9:30 PM - 8 April, 2010
I am picturing ticker tape and confetti

-Otter "Shop smart, Shop S-Mart!"
MusicDan 9:31 PM - 8 April, 2010
LOL!!!
czar 10:17 PM - 8 April, 2010
Quote:
You are going to use zdnet? Why don't you go to some of the white hat and black hat forums and figure out what they are exploting more?



yes I am going to use ZDNet.

@ Dan . Yes Dan, I must have a lot to say about this.
Dj rick A 10:20 PM - 8 April, 2010
I have 2 macs and ran itch on both of em. and it runs excatly the same....NUmark ns7 with nsfx
Mac 1 core 2 duo - Model Name: MacBook
Model Identifier: MacBook3,1
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.2 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 4 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 800 MHz
Boot ROM Version: MB31.008D.B00
SMC Version (system): 1.24f2


Mac 2 for home use - 8 core - Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro4,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 2.66 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per core): 256 KB
L3 Cache (per processor): 8 MB
Memory: 16 GB
Processor Interconnect Speed: 6.4 GT/s
Boot ROM Version: MP41.0081.B07
SMC Version (system): 1.39f5
SMC Version (processor tray): 1.39f5


both at the same settings... run perfect.... i did have issues before with the ns7 but since the ns7 came back from repair it runs perfect on these machines...
Otter 10:22 PM - 8 April, 2010
I am much more comfortable with taking my Macbook to DefCon than I am my PC. But if you want to your machine to set to "My Pretty P0wnies" background, and your credit used to order 1000 DVD of Zombie Clown porn go right ahead :)

Really comes down to choice and what works for you I guess :)

Otter "Hail to the King Baby"
Cid K 10:24 PM - 8 April, 2010
Quote:
I am picturing ticker tape and confetti

-Otter "Shop smart, Shop S-Mart!"



Mouhahaahahahaha Hilarious :-P
MusicDan 10:39 PM - 8 April, 2010
Quote:


@ Dan . Yes Dan, I must have a lot to say about this.


That's good since it is a Mac Vs PC debate. Do like Bob Marley:
"Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!"
The Reverand 10:40 PM - 8 April, 2010
Quote:
I am much more comfortable with taking my Macbook to DefCon than I am my PC.

That comfort is misplaced, since the Mac always falls at pwn to own, and so do the PCs.

Personally I'd only feel TRULY comfortable bringing my old school laptop..... staples pad and pen. :)
Otter 10:45 PM - 8 April, 2010
Yes, but hard to run a Honey Pot on my quad ruled college legal note pad.
MusicDan 10:46 PM - 8 April, 2010
HUH?!?
The Reverand 12:02 AM - 9 April, 2010
Nonsense..

(insert smart ass picture of honeypot drawn on pad of paper here)
KLH 12:25 AM - 9 April, 2010
Back on topic. Now that the iPad is out, development on OSX will halt. On the other hand, Win7 is taking off!

-KLH
Cid K 2:06 AM - 9 April, 2010
Naw it's different DEV Team's!
MusicDan 1:45 PM - 9 April, 2010
KHL, where do you get this stuff?
djcerla 1:50 PM - 9 April, 2010
Quote:
Back on topic. Now that the iPad is out, development on OSX will halt


a clear sign that "developement on OSX is halting" has been the STEAM games platform just ported to OSX :-D
KLH 2:27 PM - 9 April, 2010
Best use of a MBP ever...

cache.gawkerassets.com

-KLH
MusicDan 2:37 PM - 9 April, 2010
Someone should come out with a good iPad stand. I don't want to use my MB for that!
MusicDan 2:39 PM - 9 April, 2010
Maybe a Pad-Dock.
MusicDan 2:39 PM - 9 April, 2010
Oh boy I am getting like czar and posting things separately instead of just on one post.
Cid K 3:03 PM - 9 April, 2010
Loo
Cid K 3:03 PM - 9 April, 2010
ololll
KLH 4:03 PM - 9 April, 2010
Back on topic. IF someone decided to get a used MBP, how OLD could you go? The first Core2 Duos in late 2006?

en.wikipedia.org

-KLH
czar 5:42 PM - 12 April, 2010
MusicDan 5:43 PM - 12 April, 2010
Hey! You haven't posted for a while, looks like you are taking your own advice...LOL!!!

Btw, how many more threads are you gonna post this on?
Vestax
Carl - Vestax 10:58 PM - 13 April, 2010
Macs are PC's And PC's are Macs...

Different OS's though

PC= Personal Computer

Both win IMO....
Subdriven 11:38 PM - 13 April, 2010
LOL been meaning to mention that one.. everyone is anti pc but pro mac... O.o maybe they should be mac or win....
Vestax
Carl - Vestax 12:11 AM - 14 April, 2010
word
czar 12:53 AM - 14 April, 2010
Quote:


Both win IMO....


Both WIN =D

=D

I"m sorry Carl I couldn't resist the chance for a joke.
zaguama 3:46 AM - 14 April, 2010
FINALLY NEW MACBOOK PRO RELEASED, NO USB 3.0 FTL!!!
KLH 3:19 PM - 14 April, 2010
^ and unless you spend over $2k, only two USB ports... just enough for an NSFX or VFX-1.

-KLH
MusicDan 3:20 PM - 14 April, 2010
Oh somebody call the Wambulance for KLH!!!
KLH 3:20 PM - 14 April, 2010
Quote:
how OLD could you go? The first Core2 Duos in late 2006?

Is anyone rocking a 2007 MB/MBP? If so, does it run ITCH well?

-KLH
czar 4:09 PM - 14 April, 2010
Otter 4:39 PM - 14 April, 2010
Not sure if I would want to run Itch on a Atom processor. But I am sure the new i7s should run it just find. What about that 48 core processor that intel is letting limited releases of?
czar 5:18 PM - 14 April, 2010
I would def test itch on teh new atom processor coming out. yesir!
Vestax
Carl - Vestax 7:33 PM - 14 April, 2010
Agree.
czar 5:14 AM - 25 April, 2010
czar 5:21 AM - 25 April, 2010
djfotizo 11:55 PM - 25 April, 2010
I love coming in to a thread super late, lol! ok, if this is about blood then

MAC SUCKS!

Mac-3
Win+3

From a usage standpoint it seems like I am way slower using a mac than pc. The operating system lacks logic that would make everything so much more seamless. I feel like i have to workaround stuff all the time. Drag and drop support is lacking, and not having open hardware options is ludicrous. Since this is a blood war, i really dont have to have any proof to talk crap, right!

So, even if the software is claimed to be so supreme, the hardware still sucks. Mac knows how to sucker its users into buying new macs every couple years. How many old macs do you see at coffee shops? Not many because
A, most mac users arent technical people who can fix their own ish,
B, who the heck knows how to fix a "spinning beach ball" or "kernel panic" with no error message (Thank god for BSOD - but i have never had one in win7) and
C, mac makes it so expensive to repair ($500 for a hard drive upgrade in a unibody mac book? whatever!)
Plus their stuff really breaks easily! lets not go there... thinkpad vs mac in durability?? NO CONTEST.

So here is the end result. I gave the mac to my wife. She hated it after a month so i bought her a thinkpad and passed it to my 6yo son. He said "white laptops are for girls" so I got him a thinkpad too and so my 2yo daughter is now the proud recipient of a cute little white 13 Crapintush.

OK, NOW YOU ARE NOT ALONE KLH. Let the fun begin! (I sure hope we are all good sports here because lets be honest. You macbois never miss a moment to hack on us pc ppl. so we put up with a LOT of your BS in the clubs. And last, remember this. My thinkpad cost more than your mac, so it HAS to be better, LOL!)

My system:
Thinkpad 12" X61 with dual core 2.4ghz, 4gb 800mhz ram, 320gb 7200 rpm hard drive running windows 7 32bit. Use traktor, VDJ, and ITCH (at 2 ms) on a Numark NS7.
cnewton 12:51 AM - 26 April, 2010
^^^^
wish i was your son!! you gave him a mac.. he didnt like the colour so you bought him summin else...

now i dont have a son, but if i did and i bought him a laptop... and he told me he didnt like it... he would end up with nothing!! lol

back to the subject...

lets all just agree to disagree, mac vs microsoft is like comparing serato scratch live with serato itch... they are both good in different ways depending on the user!!! case closed!!!


macs are better for multimedia.. that is a fact! and thats why most serato user will prefer macs...
MusicDan 3:29 PM - 26 April, 2010
djfotizo, while I don't agree with what you are saying, I thank you for your opinion. I too have a Thinkpad, and I would NEVER use it for DJing. But that's just me...

Have Fun!!!
DJ.AJ 5:37 PM - 26 April, 2010
<quote>little white 13 Crapintush</quote> - that was classic lmao.

but in all honesty - i like having a closed system to DJ with. PC is too open
and it's real open.
MusicDan 5:39 PM - 26 April, 2010
My PC is a closed system. As in it is closed and packed away in my house when I am out DJing...LOL!!!
djfotizo 10:28 PM - 26 April, 2010
Ahhh, it was all in fun... I sell technology in my business so everything has its strengths and place in the market. I research all technology equally and I think we will all end up with a piece of this and a piece of that one day.

Some of my clients need projectors, others need LCDs. My wife needed an iphone more than the blackberry she was on, but for her, windows 7 is better for her than leopard. (She is also the type to jailbreak her iphone, if she keeps it long). I am a windows guy, but they aren't perfect either. Winphone7 is supposed to be so much like an apple product we are going to see a lot of platform hopping in the mobile world. Apple fans are going to LOVE winphone 7, and us Winmo fans are probably going over to google's Android platform for openness.

I have big video production projects coming up, and my 'Team' is forcing me to us a mac when i collaborate with them so I am sure I will end up buying another one. The profit on the job is worth it. Ironically, microsoft makes the best mice, seriously. So there I will be needing my 'two buttons' and controlling a mac with a microsoft mouse. That is how it should be. Use what is best for what you need and leave others be.

I just hope that most apple fans realize that no one ever had to defend themselves about platform until the fan-boi came into existence. One thing you will never see me do is get fanatical about technology. It comes and goes to fast. If you slap your name out there too big about any one thing or another, you may find yourself discarded along with the passing fancy of that trend...

fotizo :)

“Can’t we all just get along?” - MLK Jr.
czar 10:45 PM - 26 April, 2010
Quote:
One thing you will never see me do is get fanatical about technology. It comes and goes to fast. If you slap your name out there too big about any one thing or another, you may find yourself discarded along with the passing fancy of that trend...

fotizo :)

“Can’t we all just get along?” - MLK Jr.


amen!
Ragman 2:24 AM - 27 April, 2010
Quote:
... “Can’t we all just get along?” - MLK Jr.


Actually... “Can’t we all just get along?” - Rodney King (after L.A. riots of 1992)
Cid K 2:33 AM - 27 April, 2010
Lolol :-P
MusicDan 2:09 PM - 27 April, 2010
If we all got along, this thread wouldn't be as entertaining as it is...
djfotizo 4:31 PM - 27 April, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
... “Can’t we all just get along?” - MLK Jr.


Actually... “Can’t we all just get along?” - Rodney King (after L.A. riots of 1992)


Actually, it is traced back to both ;)

I figured it would cause less drama to quote MLK :)

Quote:
If we all got along, this thread wouldn't be as entertaining as it is...


its ALL fun and games till someone gets hurt, lol. No fragile ego's here please - so we can keep having fun at each others expense!
MusicDan 4:36 PM - 27 April, 2010
yup
djfotizo 4:54 PM - 27 April, 2010
Quote:
<quote>little white 13 Crapintush</quote> - that was classic lmao.

but in all honesty - i like having a closed system to DJ with. PC is too open
and it's real open.

DJ AJ, glad you caught that one :)
czar 4:08 PM - 3 May, 2010
remember something called Bumtop I dropped the link to a while ago?

www.pcmag.com

Thread Revival! yay we should add google to the title now. :)
djfotizo 3:00 AM - 23 May, 2010
That sounds exactly like something a mac person would say. Sadly field experience would prove otherwise. Just last saturday 2 of us did audio and visuals at an mma event. I was to dj using itch/ns7/windows while my buddy ran visuals with serato vsl on a macbook pro. Video sl kept crashing so at the last minute we switched. He djed on his mac and i ran all the visuals on a pc... reputations didnt matter. we simply had to use what worked. His comment was "man, i remember when serato on a mac simply meant 'stable'. " Not always the case. And, since i am the ONLY pc out of 6 resident djs at my club, i have seen all their macs have hiccups too. I firmly believe one is not better than the other anymore, and the lines will continue to blur as performance increases. I prefer windows. it is predictable. usually if it is glitching there is plenty of time to get something else playing. When i see macs crash, the app just stops. that is too unpredictable for me and i wouldnt switch to mac even if you gave me one...
KLH 3:37 AM - 23 May, 2010
Quote:
reputations didnt matter. we simply had to use what worked.

Quoted For Truth.

-KLH
djcerla 10:42 AM - 23 May, 2010
Apple has finished the Mac vs PC ad campaign.

Apple basically lost this battle in the '90s, but managed to win over 94% of the high end computer market (>$1000), and much of the earnings of the whole industry.

But Microsoft already lost the battle for the future of computing, sleeping over the laurels of a huge monopoly.

MS, led by a marketing guy, is now doomed to irrilevancy, as ultra-portable devices, with light, fast OSs are taking over last decade's paradigms.

Apple is now worth 93.7% of Microsoft, and will surpass the old foe in the next month.

Microsoft is the enemy of the past, the new battle is Apple vs. Google.
jeffrey1790 5:10 PM - 23 May, 2010
Quote:
I suffered a lot of BSOD since Windows 95. That´s hell.
No BSOD on Mac.
Mac +1
Win -1


only kernel panics.
djcerla 5:30 PM - 23 May, 2010
Not a single KP since 2003.
djcerla 2:29 PM - 24 May, 2010
Quote:

Apple is now worth 93.7% of Microsoft, and will surpass the old foe in the next month.


Today, 97% and counting...

let the drumroll begin for the Historical Day, Apple fans rejoice! :)
DJ CeCCola 3:08 PM - 24 May, 2010
I bought the NS7FX knowing I would have issues with it. I've read up every forum and post on here to cover all my bases, and right before it arrived I reformatted my laptop from Vista 64 to XP 32 bit. It still gave me problems, mainly the volume up higher the in the middle would cause the sound to cut out. This happened on 2 laptops and 1 desktop, all Windows based PC's, clean installs, way over minimum specs. This is a new HP 2.4 with 4 gb ram and clean install, still had so many issues. I'm all about PC, I can fix em, program em, whatever. I haven't touched a mac in like 12 years but I knew I'd have to order one.

I didn't use it at a gig until over 2 months later which was last weekend when I got the new MBP. I got to practice with it at home before then with my PC, but to use it on the job and feel confident that nothing will go wrong is important. So I waited and ordered the Mac Book Pro 17" 2.8gh, 4gb ram, 512 video, and all that stuff. It sucked spending another $2200 on a Mac after buying the NS7FX, Numark flight case, etc. but it was worth it.

It worked great, no flaws or anything. It's on 1 ms latency, all the setting are on hi like sampler and recording, etc. The green bar still doesn't go past 20% even when I'm recording my set, using the platter on high and at 45 rpm, while surfing the net, downloading music, and everything at the same time. I gotta say I love the Mac. There's no other drivers n shit to mess it up, and the things are so reliable. I'm still gonna keep the 2 other PC laptops and my desktop of course. But I must say, my 3.2 gh desktop with clean install XP wouldn't work with Itch and the NS7 either. So from a PC user for life, if you want no hassle and can lease one or buy it outright, get a Mac if you want something reliable. I can't even believe I said that but after seeing what happened when I got it, Im speechless and the software rocks!
KLH 4:07 PM - 24 May, 2010
^ Glad you shared your experience. Congrats on achieving a stable setup regardless of OS.

On the PC side, I wonder if there are chipsets and drivers that are KNOWN to work. That seems to be the technical deal-breaker, IMHO. The laptop may be able to handle low latency DPC calls, but ONE driver brings the whole thing down... or worse does it every once in a while at random.

-KLH
dejae 6:26 PM - 24 May, 2010
I broke my Atari in 1982 I only need my serato to play tennis again does anyone has that code.
Mac Donalds was built next to a Pizza Cafe< Which been around the longest? do the math while I'm enjoying my Big Mac and my Audience is too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PC meanz Party Crasher. I lost 100 ballroom/ hustle dancers when Cupid said to the left and never made it to the right> and that aint RRRRRightTTTT

Control-Alt-Delete
czar 6:28 PM - 24 May, 2010
mac donalds is also force fed cows full of added hormones and stuff bad for ur health. Mc Donald's has a great ad campaign tho.
djcerla 6:49 PM - 24 May, 2010
Quote:
mac donalds is also force fed cows full of added hormones and stuff bad for ur health


Just one of the reasons why Apple is a whopping 3x times bigger than Mac Donald's :-D

www.google.com
djfotizo 6:56 PM - 24 May, 2010
there is a third variable too. last night after we closed the club, a buddy spun for about 5 hours while we disassebled and cleaned the lights. He was on my laptop and a 57. Guess what happened. The 57 froze up! laptop kept on playing, but no output mixer control nothing. i walked up in the booth and flipped the power off/on on the 57, and the music continued right where it should have been. laptop never skipped a beat. We are dealing with technology people. I dont think there is anything magic. Some people have good experience, others dont. Mac is closed architecture so you get what you get. PC may be less predictable, but when it is stable, it is stable. Again, i am playing 4 hour sets 4 nights a week and see no reason for a mac. I will, however, buy the club a new mixer. Perhaps an ecler with some denon serato controls. So tired of putting bandaids on the 57 every night.
djcerla 6:58 PM - 24 May, 2010
Quote:

Apple is now worth 93.7% of Microsoft, and will surpass the old foe in the next month


Now 98%

As a juicy pre-celebration, here's the email that Steve Jobs sent to Apple employees shortly after passing Dell market cap:

"Team, it turned out that Michael Dell wasn't perfect at predicting the future. Based on today's stock market close, Apple is worth more than Dell. Stocks go up and down, and things may be different tomorrow, but I thought it was worth a moment of reflection today. Steve."

Now Apple is worth 9x Dell.

The same is going to happen with Microsoft.
djfotizo 7:32 PM - 24 May, 2010
dell doesnt do software. it was inevitable. The battle is amongst the software giant. Apple, Microsoft and Google. Apple and Microsoft will inevitably loose for a while because the future of computing is in the cloud. Google will never reign forever because that is impossible. Who really cares? do i need stats to support my purchase? Should i be a fan of football team X because they are the most popular? Nope. I have a brain and can think for myself. I like Ortofon OM over Shure (and i scratch). Dont like pioneer mixers, etc. it all comes from personal experience so this debate will always be rather subjective. I have used 3 different thinkpads since switching to serato and they have always been stable as a rock (A30, X40, now X61). I am a dj, not a stock broker, so who cares who is bigger. I use a windows phone (since win ce days) and have had flash browsing for years, yet apple doesnt, but i bought my wife an iphone. We have both decided to go google next month based on desired features. if they werent offering a tremendous change in the user experience, we wouldnt be switching. If apple can offer the same great jump one day i may be inclined to switch, but the lines are too close to make it worthwhile. IMO!
czar 7:47 PM - 24 May, 2010
thats the problem when u bring a stock broker to a forum and ask him to be subjective
djfotizo 8:15 PM - 24 May, 2010
ROFL!

just remember that poularity often = ignorance. Ask yourself. Is what is good for the masses good for me?
DJ CeCCola 8:28 PM - 24 May, 2010
I agree with that man, it's the same with music when it comes to popularity. Some of the music on the radio and whatevers played a million times is garbage. They make money by playing those tracks even tho they are horrible. My car, my rims, the stupid lyrics and stuff that goes along with it. i love hip hop, always have been about rap and stuff, but give some of the underground hip hop a listen to and you'll see what i mean. Anyway I agree, popularity doesn't mean anything. Plys the whole software thing mentioned is true with microsoft, and xbox is huge so they will never drop as much as you think.
Although today I saw the article and on tv about 200,000 ipads being sold every week. That's insane! I'm all about PC, but audio and visual reliability is whatever works for you. We all want what's best for our systems. Use what works for you, and don't worry what everyone else is doin. INDEPENDENT ~ DJ CCola
djcerla 9:07 PM - 24 May, 2010
Too much logic guys, wrong place, this is the Mac vs PC "I'm bigger than you", bloody thread.
djfotizo 10:12 PM - 24 May, 2010
it used to be... you can only fight for so long, then it becomes quasi-intelligent. even amongst djs, believe it or not. How about this one. I heard on facebook lat night that Jobbs is still a virgin, lol!
djcerla 10:33 PM - 24 May, 2010
Quote:
I heard on facebook lat night that Jobbs is still a virgin, lol!


Given he has 4 sons, while being virgin, we can only conclude he's the Holy Spirit landed to Earth one more time to gift human beings with iPods, iPhones, iPads :)
djcerla 10:34 PM - 24 May, 2010
mmm... "gift" is not appropriate here I'm afraid :D
DJ CeCCola 12:04 AM - 25 May, 2010
hahaa true
djfotizo 12:07 AM - 25 May, 2010
true. anti-christ perhaps??? a few more curses rather than gifts up his sleeves?? or is that really just cursing from those who have prsonally discovered his games of planned obsolescense (sp), lol!!
KLH 2:13 AM - 25 May, 2010
Well I heard that Steve Jobs is really the father of Michael Jackson's kids and that's why PCs are better, bishes.

-KLH
djfotizo 10:37 PM - 25 May, 2010
ok, lets talk about this "apple bigger than microsoft" thing and some philosophy on how to process the numbers... Remember what is most important. USERS, not MONEY. How much of a foothold does apple really have?

first of all, when was the last time anyone bought a Microsoft BRANDED PC or laptop, huh? Thats right. NEVER. Aside from keyboards, mice, etc, microsoft is a SOFTWARE company. How much money do you think they make when someone (like me) buys a Thinkpad with Win7 on it? $50? $100? $200?? Now how much does apple make when it moves a Macbook Pro for the same money? You should now be getting the picture. Microsoft is outselling the cr@p out of apple. So much in fact that they probably make 10% of the profits Apple makes when a windows laptop sells and they are STILL ahead.

now, forgetting about money, read between the lines here. Apple is still getting stomped from a market share perspective in mobiles, mashable.com

and it seems windows7 is still kicking everyones butt, www.web-soft-design.com

so while it seems apple is doing so well, all they have managed to do is get people to spend more money on their products than the competition. Actually, they use "prestige" and "loyalty" to get their users to give them ALL their technology money.
Follow this example of a Mac vs PC shopper.

As a Mac person, first you buy an ipod,
then an iphone,
then a macbook pro,
then an ipad.
Apple just made at least $2500 off you.

Now here is a PC person.
Insignia Pilot Mp3 (bought it because it has stereo line in for recording and a ton of other features missing on the ipod),
HTC Touch Pro Phone (multi-tasking and Flash browsing just a couple 'upgrades' over the iphone - oh, and it dual boots android too),
Thinkpad x61,
and last a Win 7/Google Tablet, probably by HP for under $400 with open architecture, free apps, no need for itunes, etc.
PC Person just spent at most $1200 or half the price of the apple guy and most likely got more features, but more importantly, look at the breakdown.

Insignia, HTC, IBM, and HP are all in the chain to get money. Again, how much did microsoft make?

So you see, Apple really isnt doing anything worth bragging about. In fact, Apple owners should feel embarrased hearing the statistics. Its one of those "the sucker is you" scenarios I hope you are not experiencing, lol. Get a bumper sticker that says "I also gave Apple $2500 of MY dollars to help them make more money than Microsoft", lol. Sorry... It is true though.

So, they are not growing faster than microsoft (in users), and they are not growing as fast as google (in users), so actually, Apple is on very thin ice. With the IPAD turning out to be kind of boring, they may be running out of tricks.

However, I am glad they are profitable, and certainly like the competition in the marketplace. We all know that competition drives product innovation, so i hope they keep it up and I hope some of you keep giving em your money, over and over and over...

Oh, and I just had another local dj here tell me it was time for a new laptop. Macbook pro of course. I said why, you just got that one. He said nah, it is 2 years old and falling apart. I laughed and sent him my picture of all my thinkpads over the last 15yrs still working, no cracks, breaks, loose hinges, melted motherboards, etc. Man you guys are suckers. a new laptop every 2 years?? Haha... no thanks.

It is because of this fact alone that a nicely hacked snow leopard install on a pc will be about as far as I will ever go to the dark side. PS, macs do use drivers called kexts. But you would never need to know that unless you are trying to use a different sound card, different wireless card, different chipset, etc. I wonder how bad windows would really spank apple if they only made the OS work on ONE type of hardware too? You really want to see how unstable OS X is? Try loading it on every computer on the earth and tell me how far you get....

... end rant, i think...

FTZ
djfotizo 10:38 PM - 25 May, 2010
Haha! proof of even more suckers!!!

www.betanews.com
djcerla 11:00 PM - 25 May, 2010
Quote:
you can only fight for so long, then it becomes quasi-intelligent
djcerla 11:43 PM - 25 May, 2010
Quote:
Windows: Install Itch and pray.


Plug&Pray™
djfotizo 12:58 AM - 26 May, 2010
lol, no, this is supposed to be a blood bath. I keep getting objective and have to try hard to get back to throwing dukes. nothing is supposed to be solved here, it is just supposed to keep the mac vs pc debate out of the other forums... doesnt seem to be working to well, lol
djfotizo 1:00 AM - 26 May, 2010
I think IBM and Mac probably use almost the exact same hardware... That's probably why it is plug n play for me. I really don't know of the 'nightmares' other pc users are talking about...
djfotizo 1:12 AM - 26 May, 2010
serato.com

i guess macs crash too. Maybe not as many, but like i have said - I have seen enough macs crash at the club to not sway me into moving away from PC.

There is no such thing as 100% stable, so choose your 99% weapon.
djfotizo 7:50 AM - 26 May, 2010
Quote:
I thought this post was to compare what operating system is better running Itch, and the truth is that Itch works better in Mac OS x. It´s a fact that most users who have problems using Windows.

Windows: Install Itch and pray.
Mac: Install Itch and rock the place.


really? Breakermixer, Cerla what do you guys think of these threads?
serato.com
serato.com
serato.com
serato.com
serato.com

All problems with MAC and all posted within a month of each other...
My definintion of PlugNPray?? Spending $2000 on MBP and still having to gamble on whether it is gonna work right or not, lol

Sorry, tis true.
djcerla 8:22 AM - 26 May, 2010
Quote:
Spending $2000 on MBP and still having to gamble on whether it is gonna work right or not, lol

Sorry, tis true.


One "true" thing is that ITCH runs *great* on a sub-$1000, basic MacBook;

Another "true" thing is that Serato recommend Macs over Windows PCs for ITCH operation and general music usage;

A third "true" thing is that you won't find anywhere on this forum a story of a Mac guy switching to Windows for better ITCH performance, whereas you'll find dozens and dozens of stories of successful Win-to-Mac switches; are all those people dumb or crazy? No.

All the rest is statistics, and statistics doesn't help your point, neither.
djfotizo 8:53 AM - 26 May, 2010
hah! finally some rebuttal! bout time...

#1. So you say it runs *great*, but there are just as many posts about mac issues as there are PC. How do you call that great when it isnt the case for everyone?

#2. If I were serato I would do the same thing by recommending a Mac. They are EASIER, but not BETTER and hence less hassle for the company itself. Plus, with closed architecture, it is easier for R&D in the long run. Honestly, if they could make all the money they needed making a Mac only version, they would, but all the money is in the PC Sector since PCs outnumber Macs 10-1.
Another "for instance" for ya... I had a client call me today for the buzzillionth time about my computer is messed up, blah blah... She has to use windows for a class and really shouldnt be on a PC. Her computer was running slow so I tried to get her to simply open her task manager to determine if something was chewing up her memory or cpu. After about 10 exchanges I said "Have you ever considered getting a mac? It would be ideal for you". I am sure that is how Serato feels. "Just get a mac and make it easy on us!"

#3. Actually, i have a current story of someone who was a pc, bought a mac, and has now decided switched back as of last week, lol... I am guessing his story will show up on the forums soon, in the Video SL section. Not to mention another mac user that posted on facebook, "Hey Steve, I was a Mac, and switching BACK to Windows 7 was MY IDEA" after her second macbook in 2 years crapped out on her. Oh, here is another.... My graphic designer almost made the switch back after a faulty sensor kept shutting off his MBP every two hours, but he stayed a mac because his mom gave him money for a new one. I bet if it was his money he wouldnt have bought another. I can tell you this fact. None of these people recommend mac anymore. They just silently use them. Actually, i have noticed that the constant complaining about premature hardware failure around the local mac community are starting to change some of those strong mac opinions, so I am sure I will see some more switching over time.

So i guess this is the stuff that really makes points that statistics dont. To the newbie out there, TRUTH - Mac has issues too.
djfotizo 9:11 AM - 26 May, 2010
see, there breakermixer goes too. None of us can keep up the fight. It is hopeless. KLH, care to throw some antagonistic comment in to get it going again?

Ok... well, just remember this. Windows users that HAD to switch to Mac already had issues so OF COURSE the experience is gonna be positive after the switch. What I am telling you is that many PC experiences are already positive enough that they dont need to switch!

Seriously though, if you guys saw all the crap running on my machine before i play (PC) you would flip. It really stands quite the opposite of popular opinion and can be considered a trump card.

I have promised several people here on the threads that I would test my thinkpad running snow leopard and report back using ITCH. I had leopard on it and it made no difference, so lets see if I can get to "Never Crashes" instead of "Rarely Crashes" with SL...

Cheers all! tomorrow is wed so time to get back at it!
djcerla 9:25 AM - 26 May, 2010
Quote:
Mac has issues too.


hardly breaking news, as perfection doesn't belong to this world.

Quote:
I have promised several people here on the threads that I would test my thinkpad running snow leopard and report back using ITCH!


another one that thinks that OSX=Mac.

Not that easy, bro, as the Mac experience comes from tight sw/hw integration (each Mac version has its own dedicated system), something you will never get on your Dr. Frankenstein's Hackintosh.
djcerla 9:27 AM - 26 May, 2010
Quote:
#3. Actually, i have a current story of someone who was a pc, bought a mac, and has now decided switched back as of last week, lol...


Wow. One story. Getting ugly for Jobs&co.
cnewton 10:00 AM - 26 May, 2010
mac is better coz they have the apple logo on the back of the screen... so when you open it... there is a lit up apple logo facing the crowd so they know your a real DJ
Cid K 12:07 PM - 26 May, 2010
This Fotizio dude reminds me of CZAR...Long post, double, triple post...
czar 1:35 PM - 26 May, 2010
u calling me? careful! lmao
djcerla 1:36 PM - 26 May, 2010
UPDATE: Apple is now worth 99% of Microsoft... Rosè Champagne ready for big celebration later today :)
czar 1:37 PM - 26 May, 2010
rose panties?

haha so funny first post I check after reading all this crap and;

www.serato.com
czar 1:37 PM - 26 May, 2010
u seem fast to try and help lmao.

i hope Apple tanks and u lose everything :D
djcerla 1:38 PM - 26 May, 2010
So what? Apple doesn't write drivers, and the guy doesn't even have a VCI yet.

Next one.
czar 1:39 PM - 26 May, 2010
yea next one..
djcerla 1:41 PM - 26 May, 2010
Quote:
i hope Apple tanks and u lose everything :D


Really? You're a very bad and immature person.

However, I am actually waiting for Apple to tank (it always does from time to time), I have no position at the moment.
djcerla 1:41 PM - 26 May, 2010
... 99.5%
czar 1:44 PM - 26 May, 2010
some people just don't deserve to have money.

now for some laughs..

w6h.net
djcerla 1:47 PM - 26 May, 2010
Quote:
some people just don't deserve to have money


Agreed. For example, those who wish other people's misfortune.
czar 1:48 PM - 26 May, 2010
hahahaha my mother says that everybody deserves a chance and maybe u'll chance someday.

yasik.kiev.ua
djcerla 1:48 PM - 26 May, 2010
... 99.9%
czar 1:51 PM - 26 May, 2010
czar 1:52 PM - 26 May, 2010
say the truth. u just need an excuse to pop that rose.

life is excuse enough to celebrate bud. ;)
djfotizo 3:26 PM - 26 May, 2010
djcerla, i just found a stat that said microsoft aims to make 5% on windows on the sale of a 1000$ machine. The median price right now is 65$ per computer sold. That being said, windows has to sell 15 copies of their OS for every 1000 laptop mac sells to stay even.

So, while they are making more profit, there really is no need for champagne at the moment.

Now if they can achieve stability in an open system, I will meet you and we can pop champagne together (and spin a little of course)!
djfotizo 3:37 PM - 26 May, 2010
cerla, you realize it isnt that tight after disassembling a dozen macs. it is just all the same hardware. that is why a dell mini 9 runs osx out of the gate because almost all the hardware runs with the default drivers.

Once apple went intel, most of their mystique went as well. I respect a closed system, but mac does=osx. the hardware is just something they have to make their OS deal with whether it is made by ibm then or intel now.

a hackintosh is nothing more than loading the OS with modified kexts (drivers) to suit different hardware. again, mac does use drivers so this is hardly a dr frankenstein deal.
czar 4:03 PM - 26 May, 2010
djfotizo 4:05 PM - 26 May, 2010
Quote:
This Fotizio dude reminds me of CZAR...Long post, double, triple post...


My apologies if i have personally offended anyone on the boards. this was simply supposed to be mac vs pc without personal attack. I have been home sick for a couple days and had some extra time to dedicate to research/posting.

I will make sure to keep posts shorter and less frequent in the future.
czar 4:37 PM - 26 May, 2010
hahah whats next? unfolding ur half pound dj setup? lmao

fastflip.googlelabs.com
czar 4:45 PM - 26 May, 2010
www.zdnet.com

wrong link. sowy
Cid K 5:07 PM - 26 May, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
This Fotizio dude reminds me of CZAR...Long post, double, triple post...


My apologies if i have personally offended anyone on the boards. this was simply supposed to be mac vs pc without personal attack. I have been home sick for a couple days and had some extra time to dedicate to research/posting.

I will make sure to keep posts shorter and less frequent in the future.



You didnt offend anyone hehehe i was just pointing out that you reminded me of good fellow CZAR :-D
djfotizo 6:09 PM - 26 May, 2010
thanks guys! While i wouldnt consider myself one with a fragile ego, i do understand that to some debate=fight, and i never want to be that guy. Also, as the guy who books the djs at the club, i have seen first hand the repurcussions of back-biting words. Politics do exists, so respect must always be exercised!
KLH 6:45 PM - 26 May, 2010
Noted. Let's continue and pretend that Macs matter...

-KLH
MusicDan 7:32 PM - 26 May, 2010
Quote:
I have been home sick for a couple days and had some extra time to dedicate to research/posting.


Aww, whats the matter, did you get a virus? You should really get a Mac, we don't get viruses...LOL!!!

Breakermixer, I want cookies.
KLH, did you get your's yet?
Cid K 8:25 PM - 26 May, 2010
Here are the real numbers of witch company is the biggest!

money.cnn.com
djfotizo 9:51 PM - 26 May, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
I have been home sick for a couple days and had some extra time to dedicate to research/posting.


Aww, whats the matter, did you get a virus? You should really get a Mac, we don't get viruses...LOL!!!


Actually, i think i got the virus from playing with one of you UNPROTECTED macs! LOL! All you carriers need to be honest with people before hooking up with us online and spreading your diseases... J/K!

Seriously though, there are mac viruses designed to take down the mac itself so keep abreast here; www.securemac.com

Antivirus is free these days and EVERYONE should use it. For you PC guys, Microsofts new tool "Microsoft Security Essentials" works great and uses very little resources. i use it with comodo firewall and have zero problems.
cnewton 6:30 PM - 27 May, 2010
its official.... APPLE WINS!

news.bbc.co.uk
djfotizo 6:53 PM - 27 May, 2010
congrats to applee, inc!
czar 12:23 AM - 28 May, 2010
czar 12:24 AM - 28 May, 2010
Quote:
its official.... APPLE WINS!

news.bbc.co.uk


exactly what wins? lmao! thats what they win lol
djfotizo 12:53 AM - 28 May, 2010
they have successfully proven that they can overcharge for everything and people will still buy it! J/K!

honestly, none of us make a dime from either company so what does it really matter, right?
czar 12:54 AM - 28 May, 2010
cerla does
djfotizo 11:08 PM - 31 May, 2010
for the record, 15 more hours logged on th NS7 without a single glitch. recorded for 8.

and (cerla you wont believe this) dj kommotion was in the booth all night saturday and told me that he is also ditching his mac and going back to pc...
djcerla 12:04 AM - 1 June, 2010
Never said that a PC can't run ITCH satisfactorily; I just say that a Mac is more likely to run ITCH satisfactorily, and countless posts by the Serato staff are backing this point.
Cid K 12:20 AM - 1 June, 2010
That's so true. Either way it doesnt mean that on a Mac it will never fail, there's just al ot less issues with Mac's compared to PC's PERIOD!
czar 12:30 AM - 1 June, 2010
Quote:
That's so true. Either way it doesnt mean that on a Mac it will never fail, there's just al ot less issues with Mac's compared to PC's PERIOD!


u mean for you and those who might agree with you..
Cid K 1:27 AM - 1 June, 2010
Wich ever bro, i dont want to argu with you, cause it wont go anywhere... Your a Pro PC and all and in your back yard PC's are the best thing on earth, but if i just read the Serato forum, i can literally count how many PC's buddies that have issues compared to my fellow Mac user's.

Then i compare on Traktor Forum, Ableton Forum, Novation Forum, M-Audio and Degidesign and in all honesty 70% of user's are MAC user's and 80% of people who actually have issues are PC user's.

So bro, no disrespect but really get a life!
DJChad72 2:37 AM - 1 June, 2010
here is what it comes down to...

If you like to monkey with the OS, tweak until you need to find more tweaks, swap components at will... BUY A WINDOWS BASED PC.

If you want to buy something that all you need to do is pop out of the box, change the wallpapers, and it does whatever you want... BUY A MAC with OS X.

There is no such thing as a technology that is tamper proof. So it is futile to say one OS is weaker than the other in security. As long as hackers have rewards for their time, then there will always be threats. Until we find a way to deprive them of their prize, viruses, hacks, and all else malicious is going to be part of our lives on any platform.

The reason why DJs and Musicians like MACs is because all they have to do (90%) of the time is install their favor compatible application on their Mac and off they go. They have very little tweaking to do before they can begin using it. With Windows there are a LARGE number of things to consider and tweak in order to make the OS stable for live audio and video. Also if you are desperate to run Windows for programs that are not compatible with OS X, there is always bootcamp.

I had 3 Windows based laptops in the last 4 years for DJing, and each one of them required ALOT of work and maintenance to make them "performance ready." I have since got a MacBookPro 2009 edition and LOVE it! I assure you my friends could not believe that I bought a MAC, as I have been anti MAC for a VERY long time since I have almost 20 years in IT. I have always looked MACs as being a "users" machine and not that of a "professional" IT guy who knows how to take care of his machines. The one thing I do recall having to make myself do when I first got my MAC... was to LET GO of trying to make things so complicated. LOL I kept looking for ways to make this work like that and how to tweak that because of this... when I STOPPED doing that... I realized half the crap I did on my Windows machines was to work around the way Windows worked. Once I realized how the MAC actually worked, I found it VERY easy to let go and leave all those hours of tweaking behind... and get down to business with what I bought the MBP to do! MAKE THE MUSIC!

To sum it up... When performing on my Windows machines... i felt like i was holding my breath all night hoping it would not mess up. And to be a DJ who is suppose to be setting a mood for 100's for people... that is NO WAY the right frame of mind to be in. With my MAC, I have never had a problem in practice or performance. Therefore the feeling of DJing on a MAC vs Windows is night and day. MAC WINS! (pun intended!)
czar 3:43 AM - 1 June, 2010
Quote:
Wich ever bro, i dont want to argu with you, cause it wont go anywhere... Your a Pro PC and all and in your back yard PC's are the best thing on earth, but if i just read the Serato forum, i can literally count how many PC's buddies that have issues compared to my fellow Mac user's.

Then i compare on Traktor Forum, Ableton Forum, Novation Forum, M-Audio and Degidesign and in all honesty 70% of user's are MAC user's and 80% of people who actually have issues are PC user's.

So bro, no disrespect but really get a life!



Don't talk to me statistics, it is so 2009
czar 4:08 AM - 1 June, 2010
Quote:
here is what it comes down to...

If you like to monkey with the OS, tweak until you need to find more tweaks, swap components at will... BUY A WINDOWS BASED PC.

If you want to buy something that all you need to do is pop out of the box, change the wallpapers, and it does whatever you want... BUY A MAC with OS X.

There is no such thing as a technology that is tamper proof. So it is futile to say one OS is weaker than the other in security. As long as hackers have rewards for their time, then there will always be threats. Until we find a way to deprive them of their prize, viruses, hacks, and all else malicious is going to be part of our lives on any platform.

The reason why DJs and Musicians like MACs is because all they have to do (90%) of the time is install their favor compatible application on their Mac and off they go. They have very little tweaking to do before they can begin using it. With Windows there are a LARGE number of things to consider and tweak in order to make the OS stable for live audio and video. Also if you are desperate to run Windows for programs that are not compatible with OS X, there is always bootcamp.

I had 3 Windows based laptops in the last 4 years for DJing, and each one of them required ALOT of work and maintenance to make them "performance ready." I have since got a MacBookPro 2009 edition and LOVE it! I assure you my friends could not believe that I bought a MAC, as I have been anti MAC for a VERY long time since I have almost 20 years in IT. I have always looked MACs as being a "users" machine and not that of a "professional" IT guy who knows how to take care of his machines. The one thing I do recall having to make myself do when I first got my MAC... was to LET GO of trying to make things so complicated. LOL I kept looking for ways to make this work like that and how to tweak that because of this... when I STOPPED doing that... I realized half the crap I did on my Windows machines was to work around the way Windows worked. Once I realized how the MAC actually worked, I found it VERY easy to let go and leave all those hours of tweaking behind... and get down to business with what I bought the MBP to do! MAKE THE MUSIC!

To sum it up... When performing on my Windows machines... i felt like i was holding my breath all night hoping it would not mess up. And to be a DJ who is suppose to be setting a mood for 100's for people... that is NO WAY the right frame of mind to be in. With my MAC, I have never had a problem in practice or performance. Therefore the feeling of DJing on a MAC vs Windows is night and day. MAC WINS! (pun intended!)


There are no applications on windows that you can't start using right after downloading aka installing aka putting the damn program on the OS.

The only problems you might encounter might be corrupted files or incompatible files from attacks at your "online identity" which basically cheat you into accepting to install applications that damage your OS "kernel" and OS performance ='[. It is possible to even turn cell phone cameras and microphones and see and hear what the phone sees and listens by hacking!

If Apple keeps spreading rapidly I assume it would mean a not too long matter of time before more attackers focus on the Apple OS. By jail-breaking your iphone ex. you are doing what Windows is. ("Open.") Hence you can install anything, even things Apple hasn't "overseen"<--- this would mean a MS oversee? Which there is none except from their own software suits.

This may end on your device not working properly because Apple never had a chance to check the application that you just installed from a third party. Now your device has been hacked by someone who cheated you online and your device is not doing what it is supposed to be doing; what you see in windows when you are not careful and accept to download to your computer malicious files embedded in good useful applications that you wished you could use when you accepted to adder the file to your OS. ='[

It sux I know. ='[ don't u ever want a freebie application??

I have and do! lol I have seen some of the best freebies around. There are TONS!

but yea whatever I am tired of arguying. use what works for you.

That is all I have been trying from the beginning, I want to bring my win machine everywhere and not be judged by people who have had bad experiences with it.

If we count how many people DJ with what; Serato in the USA and VDJ in Europe.. except cerla. =]

no seriously let's not forget Traktor and all. It's all good baby! all I want to do is have a party! Who hasn't had a drop out or something or anything!? Stop bitching and get a lyfe! LET"S PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KLH 4:09 AM - 1 June, 2010
You know, I don't think that any Windows user would seriously claim that MacOS is inferior to Windows. I think that the only valid argument is that the pricing of Apple hardware seems to be more expensive than their Windows counterparts.

While I can't speak for other Windows users, I can honestly say that the only reason that I don't run MacOS is because of Apple's pricing. The value (for me) doesn't seem to be there. I'm willing to pay 10-15% premium, but it seems like there's a 30%-40% premium. Of course, I've also seen the wonderful party AFTER you buy it, but it's just hard for me to buy something with that premium a price.

I suppose that this is a case where having deep technical skills work against me.

-KLH
czar 4:10 AM - 1 June, 2010
*adhere
czar 4:12 AM - 1 June, 2010
*arguing

spelling bee
MusicDan 4:27 AM - 1 June, 2010
KLH, now that's somebody who speaks the truth and is not afraid to say it. Kudos my man.
czar 4:30 AM - 1 June, 2010
I totally agree with KLH as well.
Ragman 4:56 AM - 1 June, 2010
Quote:
You know, I don't think that any Windows user would seriously claim that MacOS is inferior to Windows. I think that the only valid argument is that the pricing of Apple hardware seems to be more expensive than their Windows counterparts.

While I can't speak for other Windows users, I can honestly say that the only reason that I don't run MacOS is because of Apple's pricing. The value (for me) doesn't seem to be there. I'm willing to pay 10-15% premium, but it seems like there's a 30%-40% premium. Of course, I've also seen the wonderful party AFTER you buy it, but it's just hard for me to buy something with that premium a price.

I suppose that this is a case where having deep technical skills work against me.

-KLH


Agreed.
Man you talk with a lot of sense and I really like when you post because your viewpoint is typically non-biased. For myself, the only reason I purchased a MBP was for business reasons. No matter what is being said by whom on a forum the bottom line is my profits and what gear will ensure that I can maximize those profits. Since I have opted to go with V7s I had to go with what works for me without fear of failure and/or losing gigs (hence losing money). Three Wintel laptops could not cut the mustard with Itch and I lost revenue because of those unfortunate snafus. I bought the Mac however out of desperation (not because Apple's stock is doing well). It just so happens that's what did the trick. Not one disappointing episode since the purchase. Doesn't mean I switched or gave up on Wintel PCs. As I said that was strictly a business decision. As a casual computer owner at home, my money is with the Wintel PC for exactly the reasons you stated above. Apple premium was worth it for my business because the rewards justify the purchase. However as you said.. "it's just hard for me to buy something with that premium a price" for personal and casual usage.
djcerla 8:22 AM - 1 June, 2010
Shocker: Google ditching Windows on security concerns: www.marketwatch.com

I mean, Google. Not an Apple fanboy.
ontime1269 12:45 PM - 1 June, 2010
Quote:
While I can't speak for other Windows users, I can honestly say that the only reason that I don't run MacOS is because of Apple's pricing. The value (for me) doesn't seem to be there. I'm willing to pay 10-15% premium, but it seems like there's a 30%-40% premium. Of course, I've also seen the wonderful party AFTER you buy it, but it's just hard for me to buy something with that premium a price.


This is my feeling as well. I will NEVER consider buying a MAC at current prices. When I shop for gear, I always buy what gives me the most bang for my buck. My current PC laptop cost me $700. A MAC with similar specs would cost me about $2400. I can't come up with any reason(for me) to pay that much for a laptop. Sure, I could buy some other MAC model for a lot cheaper, but it would not have features that I want on my Laptop. My laptop runs ITCH fine at 2ms latency, which(for me) is satisfactory. I don't mind tweaking my computer to run effectively. Even if it is true that "MACS just work", it just isn't worth $1700 for me.
djcerla 1:12 PM - 1 June, 2010
First, a crash or hiccup in front of your audience will cost you much, much more.

Second, we are in a ITCH forum: well, a <$1000 Mac will do the job perfectly at maximum performance. There is really no point in buying a $2400 Mac for club usage.
djcerla 1:23 PM - 1 June, 2010
Quote:
"We're not doing any more Windows. It is a security effort," said one Google employee.


Sounds good.
MusicDan 1:39 PM - 1 June, 2010
My $999 mac works perfectly at 1 MS. I have an iMac at home but the missus is always on it. So I pretty much use my MacBook for everything. From Audio manipulation to Video editing, for slideshows for weddings. Check this pic out.

[IMG]i801.photobucket.com[/IMG]

The First Dance, and parent dances were slideshows. All done on my $999 MacBook.
My specs. 2.1 GHZ processor, 1 GB of Ram. You guys put too much emphasis on specs. You don't need that much to perform well on a mac. I get the same arguments on my Bose system. 1500 watts total? That's not enough. Oh yes it is...
djfotizo 4:08 PM - 1 June, 2010
Cerla, you have the same confidence in mac that i do in pc. Honestly, I hold my breath all night when someone plays along side me with a mac. When I had do do the last big video show for an mma event, tomatoslice and I couldnt pray enough to keep his mac stable, so i had to do the video work. All this 80% this and 70% that is irrelevant. Both machines obviously can be stable/unstable depending on what the user does to their machine (and provided there are no hardware issues), so in my opinion, this thread has reached an end.

If any of you guys need Windows help, I am available. If you need mac advice there is tons of help here as well.

It is called SUPPORT, and that is why we ALL joined these forums to begin with.

Fotizo
DJ CeCCola 4:17 PM - 1 June, 2010
Fotizo, well put man. I agree.
KLH 4:22 PM - 1 June, 2010
Quote:
Both machines obviously can be stable/unstable depending on what the user does to their machine (and provided there are no hardware issues), so in my opinion, this thread has reached an end.

That's crazy talk!!! We're not done arguing yet! There can be only ONE WINNER!

Look at it this way, since games and video production stress computers like nothing else, why not look to which platform is the best on that? Hmmm... Windows!!!!

If you can handle 16x antialiasing at 1600x1200 without breaking a sweat, running ITCH will be at .0001ms latency!

-KLH
djfotizo 4:47 PM - 1 June, 2010
haha!!! KLH to the thread rescue! ok, I don't mean to hijack, but MusicDan, did you really say Bose?
KLH 5:00 PM - 1 June, 2010
^ Yeah, MusicDan. You had me going until I read Bose. Then the needle scratched off the NS7...

What 'chu talkin' about Lieutenant (Music)Dan? That's right, I said it! I can mix Diff'rent Stokes with Forrest Gump if I want, dammit!

-KLH
MusicDan 5:47 PM - 1 June, 2010
You guys don't know!!! That's all I gotta say.

KLH I love when people call me Lieutenant Dan, thanks.
djcerla 5:54 PM - 1 June, 2010
Never talked about "confidence".

It's statistics, and words from the Serato staff (which are obviously based on their statistics).

I don't derstand how you guys could beat this dead horse again. ITCH runs statistically better on Macs and no twist of words can change this hard cold fact.
djcerla 5:56 PM - 1 June, 2010
... whereas other software, like Mixmeister Studio, runs WAY better on PCs.
MusicDan 5:56 PM - 1 June, 2010
Quote:

That's crazy talk!!! We're not done arguing yet! There can be only ONE WINNER!


-KLH


I am gonna agree with Fotizo on this one. Shocking isn't it. There have been times where I have wanted to stop following this thread. The only reason I haven't is because I started this mess. LOL!!!
DJChad72 7:25 PM - 1 June, 2010
I will say as a former Virtual DJ use, its MAC version was still in beta stage when they released 6.0... so if some idiot was DJing live on a beta version on their MAC you don't blame the MAC. You blame the idiot DJ for even attempting it! So you can't air there and make a blanket statementthat MAC is unstable due to 1 instance of this.... and who knows what they were using to dj with (software wise.)

What it comes down to is unless you have walked a mile in the shoes of a DJ use BOTH platforms can you make a true comparison and opinion... the rest is a bunch of veal opinions from lopsided 3rd parties.

Lastly, PC means personal computer. Which means what ever solution bestseller fits your needs and you will never know which is best until you try both for yourself. Compar8nguyen your performance to the gut next to you is not valid. The guy next to you may be completwly incompitent on either platform lol
DJ CeCCola 7:30 PM - 1 June, 2010
Yeah i agree, I use both PC and MAC. Some people don't know what they're doing tho, and some have some crazy apps and stuff downloaded that can mess everything up. I don't use one of the PC's for anything other than work. No extra programs, downloads, I don't even play games, surf the net, or download MP3's onto my work computer, I use my external hard drive. the reliable one I use for work is the Mac, but I only bought it because I have 3 other computers, all PC, and only 1 of them worked on 5 ms for more than 4 hours while recording. It's just the case with me, but I love using both systems all the same. Everyone is different I guess.
czar 8:05 PM - 1 June, 2010
Quote:
Never talked about "confidence".

It's statistics, and words from the Serato staff (which are obviously based on their statistics).

I don't derstand how you guys could beat this dead horse again. ITCH runs statistically better on Macs and no twist of words can change this hard cold fact.


hahaha maybe a MOD could do that for you.
MusicDan 8:18 PM - 1 June, 2010
I thought you didn't see that.
djfotizo 10:24 PM - 1 June, 2010
Quote:
I don't derstand how you guys could beat this dead horse again. ITCH runs statistically better on Macs and no twist of words can change this hard cold fact.


actually we do need to twist words here. We should say "ITCH statistically runs better on CLOSED architecture than it does on open architecture" (and what software doesn't, lol). So, if you mess with your mac a lot, you may have issues once only reserved for Windows people. OR, if you have a dos based machine that has closed architecture, then not meddling with it may yield Mac like performance results...
DJChad72 11:16 PM - 1 June, 2010
Statistically speaking, Windows runs faster on MAC hardware than comparable Windows only machines. This clam has ben made by Apple since they started including bootcamp.
czar 11:21 PM - 1 June, 2010
Quote:
Statistically speaking, Windows runs faster on MAC hardware than comparable Windows only machines. This clam has ben made by Apple since they started including bootcamp.


yea, i dont know what crack they been smoking
Cid K 11:35 PM - 1 June, 2010
That's all because of Drivers! Apple optimized every driver for it's hardware to run perfectly on it's computers via Bootcamp.
djfotizo 12:24 AM - 2 June, 2010
gah... i'm driving so i cant post the thread at insanelymac.com (hackintosh site) of the guys that have osx out-benchmarking their macbooks on identical windows hardware.

i have also read at tomshardware.com where xp loaded clean (no bootcamp) outperformed osx on its own native hardware...

ultimately they are all just computers and i thing the USER is probably responsible for mucking up the performance more than the manufacturer...
DJChad72 1:05 AM - 2 June, 2010
Bingo! And there are far few 3rd party options for MAC vs windows... therefore on the whole fewer muck ups. :) lol
DJChad72 1:08 AM - 2 June, 2010
Also there is something to be said about putting out 5 or so models a year. Sony probably puts out 20 different laptop models a year... and their drivers are crap and won't run on anything but the OS it ships with...
Cid K 1:45 AM - 2 June, 2010
Exactly.
djfotizo 1:51 AM - 2 June, 2010
my guess is that dell and ibm are potentially the only OEMs left using strictly intel. I would think HP as well, but they fry wireless cards so often that something is amiss. Sony is the king of proprietary hardware so they cant be trusted to leave anything standard. Asus and Acer have several vendor partners and make their own hardware as well. Gateway? Toshiba is probably mostly intel too, but they roll out new models like the tides and are constantly changing, not to mention they have amd options as well.
Wow! I just thought of something. Here is probably a very good litmus on trustworthy makes. If the pc manufacturer has AMD options, then they arent concerned with closed architecture. Bing! (pun inteded :)
Subdriven 1:56 AM - 2 June, 2010
thing about dell is they used the cheapest parts that will usualy work with the system on a normal usuage, but for our purposes it doesn't work.. you can't blame windows or intel for these issues, you blame the companyt that built the computer. So the fact that people are blaming ALL windows systems for the faults of other company is kinda crazy... yes apple builds there own software and uses hardware known to work but a other companies have the posablilites to build windows based pc's as good and even better.
DJChad72 2:45 AM - 2 June, 2010
Well, if you look at HP, they make a Windows based DJ laptop series now... and all of them are MUCH more expensive than a MAC. However some come with Traktor and a NI audio interface. However the price tag is over $2k and far bulkier. So the fact they are selling a higher end laptop series in order to cater to the DJ world... tells you they are not saying you can "squeak" by with a low end T4200 Intel chip for $500.

So folks are saying in this thread that the Apple price tags are too high, and I think the fact they can get by on a lower end PC says it all... but many former Windows PC and now Mac users will tell you it is only a matter of time before the "cheap" will eventually bite you as it has MANY others, including myself.

Also, another good point to make is how the Window PC manufacturer world piles on the BLOATWARE with free trials, their personal entertainment bundles to "help you" and applications that integrate with other products they have like Sony TVs and Cameras. I did a post in the GENERAL ITCH forum on this here:

www.serato.com

It is a HUGE difference between Windows based PCs sold on the market vs Apple MACs.

Also, many try and compare a MAC to a Windows based PC/Laptop and leave out SEVERAL upgrades you get with the MAC that are VERY important to DJs...

1) all MBP's are equipped with backlit keyboards.... this is AWESOME for DJs in low lighting situations!
2) Firewire port - this is awesome for achieving 0 latency on your sound card or external hard drive
3) all come with a high end graphics card. even if you are not going to be playing VIDEOs, a graphics card still takes the load of scrolling wave forms and such off the CPU and the graphics card handles that load. Which means the CPU can be more focused on things like error free audio. :)
4) your screen is MUCH more clearer and higher resolution. I put my $800 Sony VAIO up against my MAC both booted into WIndows 7 and the clarity on the MBP was simply breath taking compared to the VAIO. This is VERY important to have crisp fonts when visually browsing your library.
5) MBP's have a single video output port that has multiple dongles you can buy from Apple in order to output to VGA, sVideo, DVI, Composite, etc... Most Windows laptops have VGA/HDMi these days. You can always buy a conversion cable, but a HDMI to DVI cable runs you $60 or more... the dongles are like $30 from Apple... and the Belkin non OEM solutions are like $12.

There isnt a Windows based laptop under $1k with all the above specifications. The laptops that hover around $1k with the above add ons are going to be gamer laptops, which are better than "general use" laptops... but still not professional Media power houses.

Also, lets talk battery life... a MBP can achieve up to 8hrs in a single charge! I had 3 Windows based laptops and NONE of them could even get the "quoted" 2 hrs of battery life.

Lastly, what it comes down to is your laptop is the MOST important part of any laptop based setup. It is the heart and brain to merge with your DJ soul. Laptops and PCs are to have a life of longer than a year... which means you are making an INVESTMENT. Therefore if you can not fathom the $1200 USD entry price point for a MBP, but you will spend $1300 for a single CD player (or even $2k for the CDJ2k's for pete's sake)... then you are not looking at the transaction correctly to begin with! If you are buying a CDJ so that you always have a backup in case your laptop fails, then you are missing the point on buying a laptop of equal investment so that you NEVER have to fail over to CDJs!
DJ CeCCola 4:36 AM - 2 June, 2010
well put man
djfotizo 4:54 AM - 2 June, 2010
Quote:
1) all MBP's are equipped with backlit keyboards.... this is AWESOME for DJs in low lighting situations!


I have a Thinklight ;)

Quote:
you are making an INVESTMENT. Therefore if you can not fathom the $1200 USD entry price point for a MBP, but you will spend $1300 for a single CD player (or even $2k for the CDJ2k's for pete's sake)... then you are not looking at the transaction correctly to begin with!


a most excellent point, but most people probably think the 1700 spent on an NS7 and case enough to justify INVESTMENT vs CDjs and Mixer. We should all re-emphasize to new people on these boards that the laptop IS the mixer and should anticipate spending what they would on a 57 or similar quality IN ADDITION to theee NS7.
djfotizo 3:15 PM - 2 June, 2010
...a little append here since KLH didnt beat me to it :)

i also have a firewire port and 3 usb ports, 6 hours of battery after 1.5yrs, a SINGLE breakout box that converts vga to any output (vga, composite, s-video, component, hdmi for $80 total), and a nice MATTE transflective screen so i can see outside without reflection. But, this IS a high end machine as well. So, purchasing a MBP would not yield any of these things to be considered an 'upgrade'.

I only point this out so that people realize their options are not limited to mac.

This has allowed me to use one computer for everything. Outside of djing/club partnership, i also have a home theater company, an IT business, and an internet startup all of which are done on a single 12in thinkpad that gets taken out of my backpack and opened 10 times a day it seems.

I guess at some point it would be nice to have a seperate machine just for djing, but that is after wife gets her treadmill, son starts swim lessons, daughter gets ballet classes, and whatever else balances out the fact that i just bought an NS7, lol...
Subdriven 11:24 PM - 2 June, 2010
I've been realy looking into the thinkpads. I've so much good things about it. what kinda specs you have??

Who else has a thinkpad? what kinda specs?
djfotizo 12:24 AM - 3 June, 2010
click my name and check out my profile. I have it listed there.
DJChad72 12:32 AM - 3 June, 2010
If I was to buy a Windows based notebook for any reason, I would buy an Asus. They are top ranked among many "tech consumer" reports. I think the IBM Thinkpads are popular, esp in the business and executive world. However that is for general use (ie web, email, apps, etc... does not reflect use for DJ/Music/Production.)
djfotizo 1:54 AM - 3 June, 2010
LOL!
czar 2:01 AM - 3 June, 2010
thinkpads and those seem to go well with people bcz some say that those machines have good internal parts aka good quality components.
djfotizo 2:04 AM - 3 June, 2010
DJChad72, please dont take this the wrong way, but I totally disagree and think that is not good advice. IMO, we are getting closer to determining that Windows systems that run all Intel hardware (like mac) are less likely to have issues vs companies that use their own manufactured hardware when running ITCH. You are a Mac user, right?

Asus will most certainly use their own Asus motherboards and often AMD chips as well. Serato Itch does not even support AMD. I would not recommend that over an IBM THINKPAD (not lenovo stuff) with closed manufacturing practices that only involve Intel hardware.

If anyone is USING a Asus laptop with no issues please chime in... If you are NOT using an Asus currently, please do not recommend one to the benefit of new people here.
djfotizo 2:09 AM - 3 June, 2010
.... dreaming of ITCH 2.0 solving all the problems of the world ....
DJChad72 2:18 AM - 3 June, 2010
DJFotizo,

I had an Asus laptop before my Sony VAIO. I took the Asus back because the keyboard on that particular model/unit was flimsy and the frame sat lopsided. So instead of just trying another unit, I went with Sony because I thought perhaps they had a better handle on quality vs Asus (being new to the laptop market.) Boy was I wrong... i never had so many issues with my DJ rig than with that Sony. The Asus had a T6600 Intel based chip @ 2.2ghz w/ 4 gb RAM and a 5200rpm 500gb HD. It was a $620 laptop... very reasonable.

What was even more awesome about the Asus was that I could run the latency checker without disabling a THING and it would NEVER even go into the yellow. I ran an "automix" set for 8 hours one night, left the latency checker on, and it never once went into the red. That is saying ALOT for a Windows 8 machine. Normally you have to disable Wifi, modems, webcams, etc... but not with the Asus.

I was kicking myself for not taking a second chance on the Asus after I wrestled with the Sony for 3 months. However that said, if I had not had all the trouble with a Sony I dont know I would have made the choice to go with a MAC... of which I have been extremely happy!

So I do agree with you, we should not make recommendations based on biyased opinions. However that recommendation was truly based on experience on my part.
MusicDan 2:20 AM - 3 June, 2010
This is getting boring!!!
Time to stop following this thread.

Love you guys-No Homo

Peace
DJChad72 2:22 AM - 3 June, 2010
sorry, That is saying ALOT for a Windows 8 machine... meant Windows 7... sorry i didnt go to the future and come back to write this post, i swear. ;)

Also, the demo model of the Asus did not have the keyboard and lopsided issue my unit did... So it seemed to just be mine.
DJChad72 2:22 AM - 3 June, 2010
Music Dan 0 DJChad72 1 :)
MusicDan 2:24 AM - 3 June, 2010
Mac 501-PC 55

Bishes
DJChad72 2:25 AM - 3 June, 2010
that I agree with ! ;)
djfotizo 3:00 AM - 3 June, 2010
Chad, did you use the asus with itch? was it stable?

pipe down fanboys, the grown ups are talking now, lol!
DJChad72 3:05 AM - 3 June, 2010
I only had it for a week, and I only used it with VDJ and Traktor. Both of which performed outstanding with NO tweaking out of the box what-so-ever.

So I can not say it ran with ITCH. However it is a good indication if 2 of the "big 3" ran effective... so would the 3rd. Big leap of faith, I know.

But it does meet all the spec for ITCH and far exceeded them. But I still love my MBP way better compared to that model. However Asus had models in the price range of a MBP with comparable features/specs.

Given my experience with their LOW END model... I would expect alot from their higher end models.
czar 8:32 AM - 3 June, 2010
"my comp bad, my comp hood. my comp do stuff that your comp wish she could."
KLH 1:15 PM - 3 June, 2010
^ LOL! Classic.

-KLH
MusicDan 7:51 PM - 3 June, 2010
Damn, it wont let me leave. Since I started this mess it keeps emailing me and showing up on my started discussions.
DJChad72 8:23 PM - 3 June, 2010
Haha you started it, now we own you!

You can put a rule on your email inbox to move any message with the thread title in the body to a special folder or trash. You will still have it on your dashboard on the right when you log into the site.

You could probably go ahead and say this 'issue' is resolved since the MAC heads won. :)
djcerla 8:29 PM - 3 June, 2010
Win... won hands down over the Mac. But Apple will ultimately win on the tablet space they invented, with a huge domination shaping up.

Tablet sales will surpass PC sales in 3 years. In 5 years, Microsoft will have 5-10% of the consumer computer market, Apple 70%.
czar 8:33 PM - 3 June, 2010
Quote:
Win... won hands down over the Mac. But Apple will ultimately win on the tablet space they invented, with a huge domination shaping up.

Tablet sales will surpass PC sales in 3 years. In 5 years, Microsoft will have 5-10% of the consumer computer market, Apple 70%.


hmmm whos gonna pay for that?
MusicDan 8:58 PM - 3 June, 2010
You wanna buy a Saturn or an Acura? Which looks better? Which is better built? Which has higher resale value?

You spend more, but you have more piece of mind.
MusicDan 9:00 PM - 3 June, 2010
Go ahead, the "they will both get you where you have to go" comments, but you can't compare.
MusicDan 9:27 PM - 3 June, 2010
Here is a better comparison.

What would you prefer?

Hercules RMX
or
Numark NS7

you can save $950.

Case closed, somebody please lock this thread!!!
Cid K 10:28 PM - 3 June, 2010
Music Dan is on Fire today :-D hahahhaha SICK!!!!
DJChad72 12:40 AM - 4 June, 2010
Windows won? Whatever! ...and I am sure your mom goes to college
czar 2:02 AM - 4 June, 2010
Quote:
Windows won? Whatever! ...and I am sure your mom goes to college


TYPICAL FANBOY BEHAVIOR. SUBJECT EXHIBITS SIGNS OF INFERIORITY BY INSULTING OTHERS AND JUSTIFYING HIS BEHAVIOR BY BUYING OVER PRICED PRODUCTS. SIMILAR TO THE BLING BLING DISORDER THAT HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY OBSERVED ON PATIENTS OF SIMILAR INFERIORITY COMPLEX. LMAO

CURE IS AS YET UNKNOWN.

HAHAH IM JK OF COURSE BUT LMAO
MusicDan 4:41 AM - 4 June, 2010
WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING???

Must be an inferiority complex.
Cid K 4:42 AM - 4 June, 2010
lolol :-P
MusicDan 4:45 AM - 4 June, 2010
We on fire
Up in here, it's burning hot
We on fire
Shorty take it off if it get to hot, up in this spot
We on fire
Tear the roof off this mother******, light the roof on fire
N**** what you say
We get loose in this mother******, light the roof on fire fire fire
czar 4:46 AM - 4 June, 2010
I was not shouting. I just had CAPS on.. I was only typing.
MusicDan 4:47 AM - 4 June, 2010
And you must have read what popped up right after you hot post.

More than half of your message contains capital letters. To many forum users this means you are SHOUTING your message, and is considered bad forum etiquette. Please consider editing your message so that there are fewer capital letters.

Yet you still hit post again.
czar 4:50 AM - 4 June, 2010
alright stop it. dude btw if that itch is burning!..

omg

www.labeldataplus.com

hahahaha
DJChad72 4:51 AM - 4 June, 2010
"mom goes to college" is from Napolean Dynomite... just as an FYI. ;)

I would not say I am a FANBOY though... I like sh*t that works out of the box! Which is why I think MBP and ITCH are such a great pairing. You buy. You install. You plug. You play. WOO HOO!

You dont have to build mappers, go through this 12 step OS tweaking program, and spend every afternoon and evening trying to figure out why A and B leads to C, which leads to D, and unfortunately results in Zzzzzzzzzz (which is you falling asleep while reading the forums to desperately find what the F is wrong!)

After the time and money I spent on 3 different Windows laptops, I happily paid $1700 for my MBP that I have never had to monkey with in order to get things to work. I just had to beat the learning curve of being on something new. In my case I was new to Mac OSX and ITCH. :)
czar 4:55 AM - 4 June, 2010
^ I applaud that. I understand the advantages as well as the disadvantages. =]

I just don't like it when you walk into a venue with ur Windows machine and some moron says "you play with that?!. get a Mac! It's the only safe thing to play with"

that is total BS and will make me hate you and if I was a little more animal than I am I would probably knock a few teeth off your face if I lose business because of such moronic statements overheard by whoever is giving me work. so yea..
MusicDan 4:55 AM - 4 June, 2010
Quote:
alright stop it. dude btw if that itch is burning!..

omg

www.labeldataplus.com

hahahaha



You a funny dude. Where did you find that? On your, maybe I shouldn't. You already got upset about the your mom going to college comment. God knows how you"ll react to what I was gonna write.

LOL!!!
czar 4:57 AM - 4 June, 2010
I found it on google image search ;]
DJChad72 5:04 AM - 4 June, 2010
I agree. Your disability of having a Windows machine should NOT stop you from getting work. <pats you on the head and says, there, there.>

All kidding aside, I agree it is personal choice as to if Windows PC or a MAC is right for you. As long as you are professinal about ensuring your rig works and is solid, more power to you.

However, the preception is "Serato" and a "MAC" are the signs of a "serious club DJ." I have seen it in the clubs when I was using VDJ, as well as VDJ users posting in their forums how some owners would say, "you are using Windows Laptop and VDJ?" Seriously, come back when you are serious. It is nuts, and I agree should not be what gets you a job or not. As long as your skills and setup is stable, game on.

BUT that perception is rooted from somewhere, and I think it comes from Pros using APPLE and SERATO not just random "Fanboys"... but THE "Fanboy of Fanboys." :)
czar 5:09 AM - 4 June, 2010
I've heard that in Europe VDJ has a nice foothold while Serato is more popular here in the US.
DJChad72 5:13 AM - 4 June, 2010
That could be... Atomix is a French based company and supports Video, Karaoke, and Audio. Nice solution. Support sucks out the wazu. Support for both platforms is very lopsided to Windows. They want to support MAC, but they want their customers to help develop the effects and such to achieve parity with their Windows... not cool at all.
djcerla 6:15 AM - 4 June, 2010
Quote:
I've heard that in Europe VDJ has a nice foothold while Serato is more popular here in the US.


More Traktor than VDJ actually.
djcerla 6:26 AM - 4 June, 2010
Quote:
Windows won? Whatever! ...and I am sure your mom goes to college


When you own 94% of a market, you've clearly won. Even if your product is inferior. Too bad monopolies eventually turn companies into fat, lazy laggards ready to be raped in the ass, just like Microsoft now.

PS what does my mom have to do with Windows? She's on a Mac.
KLH 4:05 PM - 4 June, 2010
^ I think that this thread has just taken another left turn. Are we back where we started?

Let's up the ante. Anyone (heard about someone) running OSx86? Is it stable enough to run ITCH live? How about long-term perspectives (from that someone)? Does it require patching to keep current like Windows does?

Any success stories out there (from their "friends")?

-KLH
orvekio 5:23 PM - 4 June, 2010
My head hurts.

What's a computer?
djfotizo 6:11 PM - 4 June, 2010
KLH, I am working on it. You can choose to patch/update or not. Most people do not.

For you other overly mac bishes - I just recorded another 4 hour set without a glitch, so it has been about 20 hrs straight (since I started recording) on the NS7 flawlessly on my P to tha C!

So, on to the next one. Time to keep the blood bath alive, right? WE dont want MusicDan to get bored of his own thread again :)

Ok, Here it goes... Mac to me is like itch to the NS7. It is "plug n play". It "just works" and it is "SO EFFIN BORING"!

Forgive me, but I can honestly say I dont want a Mac. Shocker, right? Well here is another - I dont want ITCH either! I really do want something i can tweak. More features. less limits. Let me have some settings to adjust/optimize. I want to run multiple programs simultaneously and want to control which software gets what priority. Doesnt that make sense?

Currently I am trying Dj Quartz' midi map release for traktor. Whether you like it or not, traktor is truly more powerful and has some great built in effects. Also, I already do some video work with Virtual DJ, and the NS7 already works fine with it out of the box. VDJ is very open software, so you will HAVE to tweak it to get it running right but the feature set is quite amazing. So, how much tweaking can you do to get video to run on ITCH? I know, i know. Lets plug in here pray that Serato does it for us, right? Well, they probably wont. And the only thing that will make them consider it is competition, not a bunch of people in forums begging yet not going anywhere.

So let me ask... How many of you Mac guys have actually tried other software or is that only left to the "PC mentality"? ZERO? A couple?? Are the bulk of ya'll hiding in the sanctity of "stability" waiting for Serato to solve all your problems? WE PCs aren't. In fact, if it wasn't for us (and that larger market share of machines Q1 2010 2.94 million Macs vs 81.7 million PCs), you probably wouldn't get releases/updates/features very often. It is competition that drives the marketplace. If us PC guys can get other software to do what we want better, then we will open mindedly leave the little ITCH box. We dont want to be trapped to one piece of software. I want to use my midi controller to control anything I want. That is what I bought it for, and I am betting you did too. In this mac vs pc debate, I really don't care who wins but rather hope that both platforms stick in the development arena. If one or the other didnt exist, i bet development would most likely come to a crawl.
DJChad72 12:33 AM - 5 June, 2010
I KNEW IT! WE HAVE A TWEAKER!!!!!!! ROFL! TWEAKERS USE PC/Windows. NON TWEAKERS USER MAC. :)

tweak tweak, AWK! tweak tweak AWK! Just like Tweak from South Park.

I have VDJ and Cue Pro 6.0 used it on a MAC and PC, mostly PC. They do not support MAC very well... and the PC version was really bad for me. I found their MAC much more stable for me vs my Sony VAIO setup. I had to tweak alot for my Gateway and HP with VDJ, but they worked solid. I tried to build a map for use with the Xone DX and it would not even play audio via the XONE DX. I could map some things but not all. Would have to spend alot more time with it.

I have not used Traktor other than in practice. But I have tested on both PC and MAC. Solid on either platform for my practic only use. I made sure it worked using the MIX ARCHITECT mapper with the XONE DX. Worked very nicely. But I was really wanting to use ITCH because I like the cleaner/hardware forcused interface. When expanding Traktor to 4 deck skin, leaves no room hardly at all for the lirbary view and searches. Dont really dig that... petty I know... but I dont really like messing with the skin while performaing... I want stuff to stay put so I do not accidentially do something bad and get "boo's" for it. :)

ITCH have only used on MAC becaue I sold my SOny VAIO to a used buy back company. ONce I realized the internal record with ITCH worked really well with ITCH and my MAC, i decided I did not need the SONY anymore and might as well put money in my pocket vs just pulling it out to update it now and then. Felt like having to take care of a plant you really dont want. :)

So my friend, yes i have tried the other DJ programs on multiple platforms. I have had unique experiences on some, but not all. I still have a W7 QuadCore HP Desktop that I love with 2 24" dual monitors. Very stable and very little latency without any tweaks at all. But that was a $1500 desktop tower too when I bought it. :) Not much cheaper than an iMAC and that was not including the screens.

So I consider myself bi platform. It keeps me sharp and up to speed on both worlds. But do find myself LOVING my MBP more than any other laptop I have had. Just sharper picture, back lit keyboard, and the multi touch pad has weened me off alwaysing having to have a mouse.. although the Power Mouse with its guesture/touch interface is nice too. Very slim to cary as well.

I agree it is always good to have options... however I used VDJ for nearly 5 years. All on a DMC2 controller and at the end a stealth control. I could pretty much point to everything on the screen blindfolded. But I am very unfamiliar with ITCH and Traktor so I have a learning curve. When I practice with both... I find myself learning something new and then getting distracted. Or something does not work how I thought it should and then have to research how or what I did wrong. :) I did get through my first night out with ITCH and was pretty much error free and the crowd was VERY happy. But I was not ready to do anything advanced or fancy yet. I accidentially stopped the wrong deck once (early on) and then had a beat grid go rogue and didnt know how to DISENGAGE the SYNC to save my @$$. So had to do a slide and fade dealy ma bob.

So yes options are good, but sometimes the options can hurt because you look your familiarity and have to some what start all over with your comfort level. :)
djfotizo 12:59 AM - 5 June, 2010
haha, the sync comes back to haunt! i never use it unless i am performing a live mashup set with another dj. that way i can adjust the tempo of both my loop and acapella simultaneously to the other dj...

DjChad72, i would like to know your experiences with VDJ and the NS7, so let me know when you get a chance to fire it up on that HP desktop. And let me know if you need some tweaking advice... AWK! Oops! did that just slip out??
DJChad72 5:10 AM - 5 June, 2010
I used it once ... but will prob do free form.

I have a xone dx not an NS7. Lol you sending me an Ns7? Lol
djfotizo 7:29 PM - 14 June, 2010
hahaa... we got another on facebook... (name masked to protect the unfortunate)

B#$%^@#$ M*&$%)# G@#%^&: Ok well now my macbook pro needs a new video card... i feel sorry for every single person in the world that owns a mac. if you dont already have problems now, you either got it fixed or it will soon be on its way. beware of the ides of mac! (19 minutes ago)
MusicDan 7:32 PM - 14 June, 2010
Let it go!!!
KLH 7:32 PM - 14 June, 2010
This thread when 10 DAYS without a post. UFB. We can't have that.

Anyways, for those brass-toting mothers who can't handle windows, here's a great list of tweaks:

Quote:
WINDOWS XP AUDIO TWEAKS


***These tweaks were taken from nem0nic, the author . . .***


These tweaks might add to the stability of the program. Keep in mind that some tweaks will help you more than others, and some (like the disabling of a service) might hinder some normal functionality. To be safe, only apply one or two tweaks at a time, testing between each one.



Before performing ANY of the tweaks posted here, it's a really good idea to make a RESTORE POINT. Here's how...

1. Press the Start button and click on Help and Support. Or, click on an empty area on your desktop then press F1 to bring up Help and Support. Or open MSConfig (Start>Run>MSConfig) and click the Launch System Restore button.

2. In the Help and Support Centre, click 'Performance and Maintenance'.

3. Click 'Using System Restore to undo system changes' and then click 'Run the System Restore Wizard' under the 'Pick a Task' heading.

4. In the System Restore Wizard, click Create a Restore Point and follow the prompts to save your system state in a new restore point.

5. At any time, if you wish to return your computer to the state it was in when you created the Restore Point, follow steps 1-3 above to get to the System Restore Wizard. Then click 'Restore my computer to an earlier time', and select the date on which you created the restore point you wish to return to.

Using System Restore means that even if you make a large number of changes, it's fairly easy to take your system back to the way it was before tweaking. I repeat, create a new restore point now before you proceed any further with this thread. If anything goes wrong and you're not sure what, go back to your restore point.



THE TWEAKS:



Disable automatic update - Since Windows XP will connect to the internet to find updates automatically for you, you will want to disable this. Sometimes beneficial but unnecessary and often annoying, you can ditch it by going to Start » Settings » Control Panel » Performance and Maintenance » Automatic Updates and select "Turn off automatic updates".



Turn off your visual effects (aka, eye-candy) - This can be done by going to "Control Panel" » "System" » "Advanced" » "Performance Settings" » "Visual Effects". Select "Custom" and deselect the visual effect options. Next, set the Windows theme to "Classic". It'll make your OS look a bit more boring (and less like a Barbie toy), by right clicking on your desktop, and selecting "Properties", select "Windows theme" and choose "Classic".



Disable Error Reporting - You can use this for troubleshooting, but you can also disable it. Go to "Control Panel" » "System" » "Advanced" and choose "Disable" to disable error reporting.



Disable Power Management - Power management can be disabled by going Start» Settings » Control Panel » Power Management. Set the Power Scheme to "Always On" and set "System Standby", "Turn off hard disks" and "Turn off monitor" to "Never".



Disable Screen Savers - Screen savers can cause unexpected performance glitches, so you'll want to disable them. Disable any screen savers by right clicking on your desktop and right clicking » Click on "Properties" » Click on the "Screen Saver" tab and set it to "None".



Set graphic acceleration to full - You can do this by going to your desktop, right clicking and clicking on "Properties" then on "Settings", "Advanced" and the "Performance" tab. Make sure the Hardware Acceleration slider is set to "full" to reduce the load on your CPU.



Disable your system sounds - Go to Start» Settings » Control Panel » Sounds and select "No Sounds" as the sound scheme.



Processor Scheduling should be set to "background services" and not "programs".
Start > Settings > Control Panel > System > Advanced > Performance Settings > Advanced Tab > Background Services



Disable the screen saver
right-click Desktop > Properties > Screen Saver > None



Disable Fast User Switching
Start > Settings > Control Panel > User Accounts > Change the way users log on or off > Untick "Use Fast User Switching"



Activate DMA on Hard Discs/CD ROMS
*Start > Settings > Control Panel > System > Hardware > Device Manager > IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers.
*Right-click Primary IDE channel and Secondary IDE channel > Properties > Advanced Settings Tab > Transfer Mode to "DMA if available" for both devices.



Disable Remote Assistance
Start > Settings > Control Panel> System > Remote > Untick Allow remote assistance invitations to be sent from this computer.



Disable Remote Desktop
Start > Settings > Control Panel > System > Remote
Untick "Allow users to connect remotely to this computer"



Disable "Internet Synchronise Time"
Start > Settings > Control Panel > Date and Time > Internet Time
Untick "Automatically synchronize with internet time server"



Disable "Hide Inactive Icons"
Start > Settings > Taskbar and Start Menu > Taskbar TAB
Uncheck "Hide Inactive Icons"



Disable "Automatic Desktop Cleanup Wizard"
Start > Settings > Control Panel > Display > Desktop > Customise Desktop Untick "Run Desktop Cleanup Wizard every 60 days"



Disable Disc Indexing Service
Right Click Start > Explorer > Right Click Each Disc > Properties
Untick "Allow Indexing Service to index this disc for fast file searching" - this will lead to a message if the option should be applied to all directories. Choose "yes..." and wait, until procedure is finished.



Disable MSN Messenger (XP Pro only)
If you only want to stop it running and prefer to leave it on the machine in case you ever decide to use it, you can go to Start > Run and enter gpedit.msc. Then go to: Computer Configuration > Administrative Template > Windows Components > Windows Messenger > "Do not allow Windows Messenger to be run" and choose "Enabled".



IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A NEW HARDWARE PROFILE
This can be a very helpfull way to temporarily rid your computer of nasty background services that can get in the way of audio production. It's also REALLY easy to screw things up real good. Don't do this unless you are prepared and able to reverse/tweak it.


*Head to: Start --> Control Panel

*In the Control Panel, select Performance and Maintenance.

*In the Performance and Maintenance Panel, select System.

*System Properties Dialog will appear.
Select the Hardware tab, then click the Hardware Profiles button near the bottom.

*The Hardware Profiles Dialog will be displayed.
Your current profile (Profile 1) needs to be copied.
Select the profile to highlight and then select the Copy button

*Name the copied hardware profile something appropriate (FinalScratch?)

*When finished, select OK on the Hardware Profiles Dialog and System Properties

*Select Administrative Tools in the Performance and Maintenance Panel.

*In Administrative Tools, select Services.

*Double click each service to bring up the Services Properties Dialog. Using the standard method in the "General Tab," if you Disable a service, it is "forever" Disabled for every hardware profile and every user.

Instead, use the "Log On" tab.

*Select the Log On tab.
Using the SERVICES section in this post as a guide, select each service and Enable or Disable them in each profile by selecting the profile and choosing the proper button.

Do not adjust your "Default" or "Profiles 1" configuration.

Please understand:

> If a service is listed as "Automatic or Manual," leave the hardware profile as "Enable."
> If a service is listed as "Disabled," change the hardware profile to "Disable."

*After all services have been adjusted, reboot your system.

*In a few seconds, the "Hardware Profile" screen will be displayed allowing you to choose which service configuration you wish to boot.

-You are done!


WINDOWS XP SERVICES GUIDE

Here is a list of services I disable in my audio production profile. Please note that I do not access the internet or a network when I am in this profile. If you are unsure if a service is needed or not, Google it and decide for yourself. That said, here's my list of services...

Alerter Disabled
Application Layer Gateway Service Disabled
Application Management AppMgmt Manual
Automatic Updates Disabled
Background Intelligent Transfer Service Disabled
ClipBook Disabled
COM+ Event System EventSystem Disabled
COM+ System Application Disabled
Computer Browser Disabled
Cryptographic Services Disabled
DHCP Client Disabled
Distributed Link Tracking Client Disabled
Distributed Transaction Coordinator Disabled
DNS Client Disabled
Error Reporting Service Disabled
Event Log Automatic
Fast User Switching Compatibility Disabled
Fax Service Disabled
Help and Support Disabled
Human Interface Device Access Disabled
IMAPI CD-Burning COM Service Manual
Indexing Service Disabled
Internet Connection Sharing Disabled
IPSEC Services PolicyAgent Disabled
Logical Disk Manager Manual
Logical Disk Manager Administrative Service Manual
Messenger Disabled
MS Software Shadow Copy Provider Disabled
Net Login Disabled
NetMeeting Remote Desktop Sharing Disabled
Network Connections Manual
Network DDE Disabled
Network DDE DSDM Disabled
Network Location Awareness (NLA) Disabled
NT LM Security Support Provider Disabled
Performance Logs and Alerts Disabled
Plug and Play PlugPlay Automatic
Portable Media Serial Number Disabled
Print Spooler Disabled
Protected Storage Disabled
QoS RSVP Disabled
Remote Access Auto Connection Manager Disabled
Remote Access Connection Manager Disabled
Remote Desktop Help Session Manager Disabled
Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Automatic
Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Locator Manual
Remote Registry Service Disabled
Removable Storage Disabled
Routing and Remote Access Disabled
Secondary Logons Disabled
Security Accounts Manager Disabled
Server Disabled
Shell Hardware Detection Disabled
Smart Card Disabled
Smart Card Helper Disabled
SSDP Discovery Service Disabled
System Event Notification Disabled
System Restore Service Disabled
Task Scheduler Schedule Disabled
TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper Service Disabled
Telephony Disabled
Telnet Disabled
Terminal Services Disabled
Themes Disabled
Uninterruptible Power Supply Disabled
Universal Plug and Play Device Host Disabled
Upload Manager Disabled
Volume Shadow Copy Disabled
WebClient Disabled
Windows Audio Automatic
Windows Image Acquisition (WIA) Disabled
Windows Installer Manual
Windows Management Instrumentation Automatic
Windows Management Instrumentation Driver Manual
Windows Time Disabled
Wireless Zero Configuration Disabled
WMI Performance Adapter Disabled
Workstation Automatic


Once you have set all the services to your liking, close out of the services and restart.


also check these sites for useful info on helping your music apps run smoother:
www.musicxp.net


Taken from here:

www.torq-dj.com

-KLH
MusicDan 7:37 PM - 14 June, 2010
So all that to run Itch on Windoze machine? Sheesh! By the time I get half way through that I will want to give up DJing. That's after I throw the PC out the Window, ha ha, pun intended!!!
djfotizo 7:39 PM - 14 June, 2010
Quote:
Let it go!!!


MusicDan, you started it! You should be proud for having one of the longest running threads on here! I guess it would also be wrong for you to unsubscribe, so enjoy! LOL!
MusicDan 7:41 PM - 14 June, 2010
I tried to, It won't let me!!!
djfotizo 7:58 PM - 14 June, 2010
omg... that is too funny...

I guess life plays out here in the serato forums.

Let it be known - You can never quit something you started.
Cid K 8:05 PM - 14 June, 2010
Alright am done here!
djcerla 8:27 PM - 14 June, 2010
@ dj fotizo

video cards are not built nor engineered by Apple, that's why they may fail sometimes even on Macs.

You have to try harder :)
djfotizo 8:45 PM - 14 June, 2010
@djcerla, agreed, but what IS 'engineered' by apple? The case? Anyhow hers was an ATI which is odd... It is usually the nvidia cards that plague macs. Honestly though, this will be like the 4th repair on that machine. I feel for her and many others that feel like they got sold a bill of goods. That may not be your experience, but it is true for many none the less... I think it is the temperature sensor issue causing random reboots that is getting most people here. I know other machines have their share of issues, but it is easier to stomach when you only spent 300 vs 1300 on supposed 'quality'...

PS, I am helping her pick an IBM :)
djcerla 9:09 PM - 14 June, 2010
Macs have the best customer satisfaction rate in industry, BY FAR. Also, Macs have the best satisfaction rate for service in the industry, BY FAR.

This is statistics, not fanboy bias.

Trying to trump people in believing that Macs are somehow less reliable tan PCs or that Mac's build quality is poor is plain stupid and will only make you look dumb.
djfotizo 9:10 PM - 14 June, 2010
no one looks as dumb as the crashing Mac right beside me when I play. Sorry!
djcerla 9:13 PM - 14 June, 2010
You're actually looking dumber and dumber by assuming that the Mac besides you is representing the majority of Macs, which is statistically not the case.
djfotizo 9:18 PM - 14 June, 2010
... and you look equally dumb ass-uming the same about ALL pcs...
djfotizo 9:19 PM - 14 June, 2010
^ is mad the italians didn't win (not that the greeks did any better)
djcerla 9:27 PM - 14 June, 2010
Quote:
... and you look equally dumb ass-uming the same about ALL pcs...


You're plain wrong because I've never assumed anything like that.

PS I don't like soccer.
djfotizo 9:35 PM - 14 June, 2010
Oh well.... It would have made sense since you seem a bit aggressive today :)
djcerla 9:46 PM - 14 June, 2010
You know that this topic has very special rules :) Sorry if I sounded aggressive, nothing personal, really.
djfotizo 9:54 PM - 14 June, 2010
I hope not, cause I was about to PM you for some advice on something I saw in one of your vids...
DJChad72 12:45 AM - 15 June, 2010
Quote:
no one looks as dumb as the crashing Mac right beside me when I play. Sorry!


You cant fault PC for the same. Which means you cant fault either for the user's lack of technical expertise and common sense. :)
djfotizo 4:06 AM - 15 June, 2010
I will simply say this. Mac may have a stellar OS, but they aren't the end all hardware. There are better machines out there that deserve the opportunity to run OSX. Period.
MusicDan 4:28 AM - 15 June, 2010
So lets start a new thread...OSX Vs. Windows

Wadda ya say? But someone else do it so that I don't have to suffer through it should I decide to "Stop Tracking this Discussion" like I have tried doing with this one, but like Chingy said, something "Keeps Pulling Me Back".

See what I did there? I'm a DJ, and I used a song title to describe what I wanted to say. ;-)
djfotizo 5:40 AM - 15 June, 2010
That could be a good thread, but my guess is it wouldn't get much traction. Since linux and windows are designed to adapt during install to run on all hardware, mac owners have the luxury of using any OS they want on their hardware. It is only Steve Jobs that will not allow virtualization or installation of his OS on anything but his hardware. Therefore, if you want to take advantage of some of Windows strong points, run a win session. If you need Mac for a few hours, run mac. EVERYONE should have that choice by simply being allowed to purchase the OS.

I really don't know what to think. Part of me agrees that it is to preserve OSX 'stability', but the larger part cant help but think he is just a greedy SOB that wants to keep all the money to himself. (this reminds me of Sony and the Compact Disc all over again - remember how Sony snuffed us djs?) Anyhow, It is funny how everyone used to dog Bill Gates for being the greedy one and now Jobs has become that guy, lol... Micro$oft has now been replaced by Macinto$h or i have even heard 'Cash-IN-tosh'

So, I think a better thread would be OSX on Apple hardware vs OSX on 'Other' hardware, but we are not allowed the freedom of choice in this matter. Since mac usually uses older hardware (hence the term 'overpriced'), there is a good chance that many new machines would best the Apple product relatively easily and spoil the entire Job$ campaign...

here is a nice bit of reading for ya titled, "What Apple Doesn't Want You To Realize"
www.tomsguide.com

"Think Different" is certainly a thing of the past...
djcerla 8:41 AM - 15 June, 2010
Pretty much true: "Think different" is a thing of the past. Thanks God for that. People don't want to think different actually, but to enjoy high quality, reliable, electronic products that are built around the user experience.

And innovation: the iPhone has been the paradigm of the modern smartphone, the iPad will become the paradigm of the modern PC. Just compare the level of "innovation" that the former tech king Microsoft brought on the table in the last 10 years: about zero. Even Apple-haters should thank Steve Jobs for the innovation his company has poured into consumer electronics: just try to imagine where we would be now without Apple: probably stuck at DOS vs. Amiga wars.

Those 2 Apple strenghts (focus on the user experience and innovation), and not marketing as naive people may believe, took the company to the leading role it has now. Is Apple making money out of this? You bet. But to put things in prospective, the laggard Microsoft is still earning more, just by sitting on a huge monopoly.

Times are a-changing, though, and Apple will soon earn more than Microsoft, not because they "think different" but because they care about the user.
KLH 4:51 PM - 15 June, 2010
This really IS a Windows versus OSX thread. It's the only significant difference between comparable laptops.

Windows' backwards compatibility is the Achilles Heel - particularly with drivers and keeping support for the many many flavors of .DLLs (which truth being said aren't necessary anymore). I would imagine that moving forward, Windows will use virtualization for backward compatibility... at least I hope it does.

Since OSX is based off BSD and Mach operating systems, it's core architecture and memory management are "cleaner" than Windows. Having a tyrannical company stress performance helps too.

At the end of the day, native performance in OSX really is the same with Windows. Unfortunately the latter works with subpar drivers that can kill performance and/or stability without warning.

I'm open to suggestion on how to test for optimal drivers on Windows...

-KLH
DJChad72 6:13 PM - 15 June, 2010
I agree. I had fits with Windows and Pro Tools. You buy a new laptop or PC and could use the OS pre installed and you can't roll back ... and if you did the OEM would not support you let line build drivers. Nightmare!

Then you have the 32vs64bit issue on top if the XP vs Vista vs W7 issue. It is madness. It should get better since more/all laptops and computers are 64bit only.... but many apps say they are compatible. But as soon as you have an issue they point at 64bit and suggest you go buy a 32bit retail.
KLH 6:18 PM - 15 June, 2010
Quote:
here is a nice bit of reading for ya titled, "What Apple Doesn't Want You To Realize"
www.tomsguide.com

Great article with valid points.

-KLH
djcerla 8:15 PM - 15 June, 2010
Quote:

At the end of the day, native performance in OSX really is the same with Windows. Unfortunately the latter works with subpar drivers that can kill performance and/or stability without warning.


You'd like this to be true, but unfortunately there's something called CoreAudio which is years ahead the current Windows audio engine, as once remarked by a Serato mod.
KLH 11:39 PM - 15 June, 2010
^ In all honesty, I forgot about CoreAudio (versus ASIO or native WaveRT in Windows). You are correct, DJ C. CoreAudio IS more advanced than what is available in Windows, unfortunately.

-KLH
MusicDan 3:07 AM - 16 June, 2010
CoreAudio - 1
Asio/WaveRT - 0
Serato, Support
ChrisD 3:43 AM - 16 June, 2010
Quote:
Mac may have a stellar OS, but they aren't the end all hardware.

I completely agree.

I love Mac OS X and would choose it over Windows whenever possible. But spec for spec, Macs are more expensive and, whilst they're generally at the acceptable end of things, they're never as current technology-wise as Windows machines.

Also, as much as I love it, my current Macbook Pro is the most troublesome piece of computer hardware I've ever owned.
djfotizo 4:38 AM - 16 June, 2010
... and there is a post to sum it all up.

Welcome to the party ChrisD!
djcerla 7:58 AM - 16 June, 2010
Quote:
Also, as much as I love it, my current Macbook Pro is the most troublesome piece of computer hardware I've ever owned.


hi ChrisD

post a ticket in the Help section, I'll be helping you in troubleshooting your system.

(just kidding :-D)
DJdaveZ 10:29 AM - 16 June, 2010
win 7 = $200
snow leopard = $40
having both = annoying
djfotizo 4:34 PM - 16 June, 2010
i guess u gotta be in the inner circle... i emailed a microsoft buddy and got win7 Pro 32bit and 64bit versions for $49 shipped to my house :)

and my lady friend with the troubled MBP gave me her copy of snow leopard for all the 'fixing' i have been doing on her lemon since she is going back to windows :)

KLH, as soon as my new HD arrives I will install SL on my Thinkpad and report to all you guys...
darklocust 6:04 PM - 16 June, 2010
I've been a Windows user since Windows 95 and my desktop runs Windows 7 but for ITCH or ScratchLive, OSX has the smoother display, no dropouts or latency problems.

Since I was on a budget, I got a Lenovo U330 and installed iATKOS v7 (hackintosh). I have triple booting Windows 7, OSX and OSX backup partition. If I need to restore my OSX to its brand new state, I load up the backup partition, run Carbon Copy Cloner and have a new system to work with.
djfotizo 7:55 PM - 16 June, 2010
darklocust - you are my new best friend! i am loading a clean install using iportable OSX (installs from usb drive). expect a PM soon!
DJChad72 3:50 AM - 17 June, 2010
I knew it! Fotizo is a closet apple fan boy! WANNA BE! <grin>

Also as for the post earlier about MBP's being spec'd 2 years old... they just came out with a new like about 2 months ago (right after I buy mine of coarse! LOL)

They all have Core i5 processors and are well over the 2ghz mark. You look at all the other windows based laptops, and they are all using i5 or i7, only one or two have the quad core, but they are equally as pricy... but so much more bulky. You look at the customer reviews, all the MBP are 5.0 while the others struggle to surpass 4 stars.

Also, Apple brags about their products being on the leading edge of technology that is why they make a better longer term investment... because they will still be spec'd to stand the test of time. That is why they are able to keep a line of MBP's on the market for 2 years!

To be honest it is not about this spec or that spec because it comes down to how it all comes together in the package. I used to have to come to some friends house at least once every 2 or 3 months to look at what they have done to their Windows computers. They ended up getting MAC's and have not had to make a single visit SINCE. When my friends shop for a comptuer I ask 3 questions, 1) what is your budget, 2) can you finance for 0% to stretch your budget, and 3) what if you wait 3 months will you go nuts? I also remind them budget is not what they WANT to spend, but what they should/could spend if they didnt want to be looking again next year. Once they are finalize on their budget/time to buy, I tell them the 3 things they can NOT change about a laptop later: screen size, processor, and number of direct ports available. Everything else (RAM, harddrive, CD/DVD drive) can be upgraded later when they are ready. Therefore get the best CPU, screen size, and higher number of direct ports they can... and anything else they can get already pre-installed (like RAM and HD) is icing on the cake.

I think the most humorous thing is when they shop they say, "oh I dont need anything fancy. I just check email, read the news, and look at porn." But as soon as the damn thing STOPS working (5 months later), they will wake me from bed and drive clear across town to see if I can "get them back online." LOL
djfotizo 4:48 AM - 17 June, 2010
well here you go. my sat night dj just had a full on crash on his 17 MBP. he didnt have to reboot, but def had to restart scratch live. sorry, but i cant EVER be sold on believing mac is a better product. and he was on scratch not itch. REALLY? ya'll can believe what u want.

i am going to test both OSes from the PC side and will let u guys know my findings in the hackintosh thread...

good luck with your macs guys. we all just need stability and i am here for the PC peeps!
DJdaveZ 6:30 AM - 17 June, 2010
Quote:
well here you go. my sat night dj just had a full on crash on his 17 MBP. he didnt have to reboot, but def had to restart scratch live.

still, its an isolated incident. there are sometimes issues with ssl and itch on either platform.
DJdaveZ 6:30 AM - 17 June, 2010
and like i said, i do run both...
DJChad72 12:46 PM - 17 June, 2010
Ya, you can't take 1 crash and say MAC is inferior. Lol plenty of people will also testify to Windows machine crashing as well.
djfotizo 3:33 PM - 17 June, 2010
DJChad72, DjdaveZ, if you had been following this thread, you will notice that I have pointed out many incidents so this certainly ins't 'isolated'. Also I am NOT stating that the Mac is inferior, I am simply stating my OPINION that they aren't worth switching to based on personal EXPERIENCE.

I don't know how long you guys have been using serato product, but I am going on 5 years. I have used nothing but Thinkpads the whole time and they have been rock solid. In the past year, i have seen more macs crash from different users than my PC ever has on me, and I am basing my statement on that. Sure, there are more Macs than PCs in the game, but they crash nonetheless. In fact, my light tech and I now make jokes about it whenever a shiny new mac pops up in the booth... So, it is personal opinion and personal experience only that drives me to make the statement I made above "i cant EVER be sold on believing mac is a better product". Experience is the best teacher (but only when it is someone else's experience, right? :)

No one should take this personally. It should simply provide hope to some PC guys, and truth to some Mac prospects. Again, we all deserve 100% stability, but I don't think it exists on either platform and soon-to-be Mac users need to know that. "Get a Mac" may not solve all your problems. You probably still need to have a brain and some computer skills if you plan on endeavouring into the realm of digital djing...

FTZ
DJChad72 2:45 AM - 18 June, 2010
Make the PC users SUFFER!!!!! whao ha ha ha ha!!!!! LOL

i have only been able to use ITCH once since I got it. The rest has been testing. I will be more during the summer as I ramp back up with gigs. It just has been crazy in my life. Bt I used VDJ for nearly 4years and their main platform was PC. I had many wresting matches with VDJ and WIndows. I moved to mac and I lost some features (thanks to their "we dont develop effects, we leave that to the user" policy) and I essentially plugged it in and everything works off the bat. No tweaking. No Latency issues what so ever. It went the same with ITCH and my Xone DX. All I have had it would appear would be learning curves.

So you are right... it is person experience. What it comes down to is it is technology. It will behave however we want it to, to a degree. After that it has more to do with place and time than anything.

But my point on commenting on watching other people's MAC's crash is more about pointing the finger at MAC vs the User. My feelings would be and are the same if they were a Windows user. This, for me, comes mostly from the fact I was in technical support for nearly 3 years after college. I can tell you the majority has to do with the user, not with the computer. Click on this, click on that, dont read that pop up, click through it, and after 3 weeks, 5 months, however long of that type of behavior and use no wonder things begin to not function. You might as well have a monkey using the the thing compare to some of those people, right? Then they sit there and call the computer names???? hmmmm... is it the computer or the user who does not pay attention to what it is they are doing that is at fault??? I wonder....

So I guess that is why I am sort of more on the MAC side of the fence these days. I have found my friends who do not really like to be bothered with knowing what they are doing do less harm to themselves when they are using a MAC vs Windows computer. But as you have seen it is not entirely fool proof, just like any other technology. :)
czar 7:31 AM - 18 June, 2010
Quote:
Make the PC users SUFFER!!!!! whao ha ha ha ha!!!!! LOL

i have only been able to use ITCH once since I got it. The rest has been testing. I will be more during the summer as I ramp back up with gigs. It just has been crazy in my life. Bt I used VDJ for nearly 4years and their main platform was PC. I had many wresting matches with VDJ and WIndows. I moved to mac and I lost some features (thanks to their "we dont develop effects, we leave that to the user" policy) and I essentially plugged it in and everything works off the bat. No tweaking. No Latency issues what so ever. It went the same with ITCH and my Xone DX. All I have had it would appear would be learning curves.

So you are right... it is person experience. What it comes down to is it is technology. It will behave however we want it to, to a degree. After that it has more to do with place and time than anything.

But my point on commenting on watching other people's MAC's crash is more about pointing the finger at MAC vs the User. My feelings would be and are the same if they were a Windows user. This, for me, comes mostly from the fact I was in technical support for nearly 3 years after college. I can tell you the majority has to do with the user, not with the computer. Click on this, click on that, dont read that pop up, click through it, and after 3 weeks, 5 months, however long of that type of behavior and use no wonder things begin to not function. You might as well have a monkey using the the thing compare to some of those people, right? Then they sit there and call the computer names???? hmmmm... is it the computer or the user who does not pay attention to what it is they are doing that is at fault??? I wonder....

So I guess that is why I am sort of more on the MAC side of the fence these days. I have found my friends who do not really like to be bothered with knowing what they are doing do less harm to themselves when they are using a MAC vs Windows computer. But as you have seen it is not entirely fool proof, just like any other technology. :)
djfotizo 9:58 AM - 18 June, 2010
DjChad72 - well put. i wholeheartedly agree with you. did i just break the thread rules? No ammo for my buddy Cerla?

i did record another 4hr set tonight PC glitch free, so this subject is becoming a dead horse. ultimately creativity wins in the dj world, not the technology behind it if it works...

much respect to all of you for your passion of this art. 16yrs later i feel like it has just begun.

...peace...

unsubscribed.

fotizo
djcerla 11:10 AM - 18 June, 2010
I wish your ITCH-PC rig will be as stable as my ITCH-Mac one: 2 years without a single glitch (excluding the dreaded ITCH AAC bug of course, but Mac wasn't the culprit), on VCI, NS7, V7s.
czar 5:31 PM - 19 June, 2010
wow we have Itch for 2 years already!?!!?? TIME FLIES!
djcerla 9:49 PM - 24 June, 2010
More food for thought: Apple is now worth more than Microsoft + Dell combined.
djfrancov 11:48 PM - 2 September, 2010
hell yea!!! we are the future!!!
MusicDan 12:58 AM - 3 September, 2010
Resurrected!!!
czar 1:03 AM - 3 September, 2010
can u resurrect a Gray Screen of Death?
DJ Sergio B 1:11 AM - 3 September, 2010
nooooo not this debate.


look - new macs normally come with processors that are not only dual core but - top end of the sort of stuff we use our laptops for

1066 mhz FSB is damn near standard for most in Macs and MBPs - where as 800 mhz is about standard for pcs

hard drives? macs normally come with a 7200 rpm hard drive stock - pcs get less as a standard

DDR3? runs at 1066 mhz - where as the PC standard DDR2 runs at 800 mhz....

it isn't that they're "better" - they have better specs out the box...

want a pc? get one with all those standards / or put them in - it will STILL be cheaper than a top of the line MBP.

or - if you like macs - get a mac.

...lord.
czar 1:40 AM - 3 September, 2010
Apparently a lot of your "great" apple machines need resurrection.

discussions.apple.com

discussions.apple.com

francov can you go to your future and bring a fix? haha


@ SERGIO bro...

store.apple.com

www.videocardbenchmark.net

look for number 480 (G Force 330M) on the list thats ur supposedly "higher" specd in the market computer

this comp has same specs than ur "latest" MBP and isntead of 15" screen its 18"

www.newegg.com

and thats ur "latest" hard drive US$69 OUCH!

www.newegg.com

BTW bro look at the RPM on this one... I know it has less capacity but just so u know where technology really stands..

www.newegg.com

Now look at this laptop...

www.newegg.com

and dont even try to argue, you know squash
DJ Sergio B 8:43 AM - 3 September, 2010
^....I don't mean to bring this game to a halt...but you do know I'm a PC right?
djcerla 10:32 AM - 3 September, 2010
The PC is dead. Soon, only pros will still use laptops or desktops, for productivity tasks.

Welcome tablet computing! (Apple = 90% market share :)
djfrancov 10:41 AM - 3 September, 2010
Cerla you are a dog!!!! lol
czar 12:21 PM - 3 September, 2010
yea sergio i didnt mean it to you sorry.

I agree with cerla that a lot of people are losing out on what computers can do and instead are opting for web oriented products. also as companies push for the cloud and people are accepting it that will also take a chunk of the market with them..

tablet is not new cerla and productivity is a great thing, consumerism is ok I guess. someone needs to pay my bills so let them. I will create so they consume. and yea I will do it in the machine that offers the greater set of features at a fair price no matter who makes it. so far non-apple branded computers for the win..
czar 12:32 PM - 3 September, 2010
this guy who trained me to do a job once said. "look at the window, see those people? think of them as cows. what you have to do is guide them in and make them do what you want." sad but so true. a lot of people are so looking to be manipulated. Apple has been smart about this statement yet very unfair but at the same time able to take all these cows and make a nice buck out of their hard work.

I dont respect apple cuz it takes from anyone. apple likes to play with the truth and scare people into thinking that apple is safer, more stable, and blah blah blha. bunch of horse poo. but hey it works people buy into all the hype. all that hype a little shine and thinner form factors at the cost of ventilation and bam you have many cows dropping money on you
czar 12:35 PM - 3 September, 2010
you can argue all you want.

if apple was really more cost effective would all companies out there be using windows machines? hmmm no..

oh and i mean apple is unfair in its practices such as pricing and distorting the truth taking advantage of the lack of information people have towards technology
czar 12:35 PM - 3 September, 2010
oh a lot of companies use linux for servers cuz its free too...
czar 12:36 PM - 3 September, 2010
linux is closer to apple than windows becase it
czar 12:37 PM - 3 September, 2010
has less configurations options (depending on flavor of course) but overall it can do all mac os can and its free. the only issue has been drivers to support all computers out there but the latest linux flavor have done an outstanding job at integrating drivers.
MusicDan 12:50 PM - 3 September, 2010
Quote:
Resurrected!!!


just turned in to

Regret!!!

Go Mac!
djfrancov 4:15 PM - 3 September, 2010
yea!!!!!
KLH 4:30 PM - 3 September, 2010
Get the NS12!!! Oh wait... wrong thread.

Czar, you posted 6 times in a row. Isn't that a new Czar record?

Back on topic.

Pick what you want: MacOS or Windows. They can both be great - and nightmares if you don't know how to keep them going.

-KLH
djfrancov 4:36 PM - 3 September, 2010
less problems with a mac...and thats a fact..
DJChad72 4:43 PM - 3 September, 2010
czar you do realize those video/graphics cards are for all types of machines, not just laptops, right? LOL If you google the top card, you would find it is a $500 card on Amazon.com and is made only for PCs, as is the case with all those other cards. The margin between the middle of the road is nothing the human eye can see. LOL

I do agree with you on the cow scenario. very well said.

I have not seen anyone ever say, "i wish i never bought my MAC." Once a friend buys a MAC i never hear from them against except to go grab drinks OUT somewhere. Those who dont, I get asked over for drinks and then "while you are here... can you fix my computer?" LOL

That said, I am a BIG fan of Windows 7 and I love it on my quad core PC and it is ROCK solid HP Ellite series processor. I also love my 2009 MBP.

I feel like I have the best of both worlds:

Home office Desktop: HP Quad Core Elite w/ dual monitors in an extended desktop configuration: 1) 24" HP HD monitor 2) a 22" Acer Monitor. M Audio Fast Track Pro USB Sound Card, Blu Ray Drive, and Radeon 512mb Graphics Card, Dual Drives: OS is 720gb HD and Data/recording drive is 1.5TB HD. Both are 7200rpm. I can let the DPC Latency checker run and it will never go into the yellow. Perfect engine for home based music production.

2009 Mack Book Pro 15" 2.53ghz, 500 gb 7200rpm HD, 4gb RAM, and all the regular MBP specifications. :)

So I am BOTH an Apple and a PC. But I learned my lesson monkeying around with substandard PC's and Laptops. If you want it to work and stand the test of time, spend the money on higher end on either line. However I probably would not look for another laptop other than a MBP. The PC based ones are just bulky after you have had a MBP. I really like having both OS's as well... sort of gives me a choice as to what platform I want to run which applications on.
MusicDan 5:13 PM - 3 September, 2010
Quote:

Czar, you posted 6 times in a row. Isn't that a new Czar record?

Back on topic.

Pick what you want: MacOS or Windows. They can both be great - and nightmares if you don't know how to keep them going.

-KLH

This is from another thread.
Quote:
czar, I see somethings NEVER change. You still can't keep all your responses into one post. I think your fingers think faster than your brain. So you keep clicking post after every phrase.

LOL!!!
czar 5:09 AM - 4 September, 2010
lol I know those included also desktop video cards but I thought It would make it more dramatic to compare to the whole market so I left it alone to see who was actually smart enough to pay attention. good job u win nothign! he ;] lol

I have to say that I know people who after getting a mac have wished they didnt waste their money and also those who have turned to windows after mac was a fail for them.

btw here is the mobile video card chart..

MBP video cards are number 67 on the list of currently available mobile cards + dual cards meaning: MPB could really use having had dual video cards but of course they can't, their are too thin to hold the heat. they cant even hold the heat of the top of the line cards.

this chart marks the MBP video card at number 67 included dual video card configurations available for mobiles. NUMBER 53 on the list of single video cards available in the market. that shows that apple doesnt use the latest as some of their users believe, period.

www.notebookcheck.net
Kmxorbit 9:35 AM - 4 September, 2010
I don't care what people say about PC or Mac. I use both systems and both have (dis)advantages.
In case of serato itch, my mac does a better job mainly because of the better integration of the controllerdrivers, iTunes and it requires less maintenance then a PC for that job.
czar 4:17 PM - 4 September, 2010
unless you are using 1.7 lol
zaguama 5:29 PM - 4 September, 2010
Auch lol.
Kmxorbit 3:13 PM - 5 September, 2010
Quote:
unless you are using 1.7 lol

Nothing to do with the version of Itch.
Itch is better integrated in Mac OS then PC OS.
That's a fact and not a personal opinion.
Dj_Nix 4:18 PM - 5 September, 2010
Quote:
This is the man who runs Microsoft since 10 years:
monkey dance: Watchwww.youtube.com


I swear in this video baller looks just like Bill from the King of the Hill... :/
DJ Sergio B 4:46 PM - 5 September, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
unless you are using 1.7 lol

Nothing to do with the version of Itch.
Itch is better integrated in Mac OS then PC OS.
That's a fact and not a personal opinion.


yeah - that doesn't appear true at all. Macs and PC users alike are having issues with 1.7. You could just look in the Itch forum and see that...

I have not had 1.7 crash on me nor have drop outs or anything - but it does spike up about mid CPU usage for what appears to be for no reason at all....and I'm a PC. A Windows 7 PC.

on 45 rpm - 60 refresh - 5ms ...I mean I'm using it the way I'd like to use it.

I'm going to give 1.5 a shot.
KLH 8:04 PM - 5 September, 2010
Quote:
Itch is better integrated in Mac OS then PC OS.
That's a fact and not a personal opinion.

As stated, it's a personal opinion. IMHO, what you're trying to say is: The MacOS has advanced native audio handling that integrates with DJ apps better than what Windows offers. As a result, DJ apps seem to be integrated more tightly on MacOS than on Windows.

-KLH
czar 6:59 AM - 6 September, 2010
Adding to KLH.

Audio Stream Input/Output (ASIO) is a computer sound card driver protocol for digital audio providing a low-latency and high fidelity interface between a software application and a computer's sound card. Whereas DirectSound is commonly used as an intermediary signal path for non-professional users, ASIO allows musicians and sound engineers to access external hardware directly. Source. Wiki

Mac used "ASIO" in OS 9 before introducing "Core Audio" on OS X; perhaps recoding ASIO and renaming it Core Audio.. LOL!

ALSA drivers also do the same as ASIO or COREAUDIO for Linux.
Kmxorbit 7:43 AM - 6 September, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Itch is better integrated in Mac OS then PC OS.
That's a fact and not a personal opinion.

As stated, it's a personal opinion. IMHO, what you're trying to say is: The MacOS has advanced native audio handling that integrates with DJ apps better than what Windows offers. As a result, DJ apps seem to be integrated more tightly on MacOS than on Windows.

-KLH

Well, that's another way to say the same as I meant to say it... ^^
I also feel that Itch (and SSL) were initially developed on MAC.
There are also other DJ progs where you can feel they seem to be better integrated on PC then on MAC. it works both ways you know...
czar 8:08 AM - 6 September, 2010
im about to buy a samsung galaxy just cuz I hate Apple and every self ego centric fanboy there is that hasn't realized microsoft brought tablets to market 10 years ago and crossed it seeing no interest from people.

apple just takes advantage of all the fanboys to recreate an already made product, lie about being innovative and taking advantage of peoples technological ignorance and laziness to learn. combine all those and a big need for people to gain social status based on what material things they have (the more expensive the better) and they have a succes. Im telling u I dont like the whole tablet thing cuz Im full fledged computer die core because I go for usability rather than cool factor, but Im about to buy a whole bunch of galaxy tablets and recycling them just to grow samsungs sales. its a much better product anyways!

why cant apple really create cool useful stuff and stop lying and instead rely on ego centric consumers full of self pitty and so much need for attention as to spend money on stupid gadgets? I cant wait for Microsoft to introduce Deskterity

see on microsoft software im not limited to how my things are arranged, or even limited to using a pre determined GUI. why because more people are willing to code for windows because it is cheaper therefore it reaches a lot more people.

when will apple fanboys understand that expensive is not better and that many of the best world creations are with little or no budget?

no apple user creates anything! it is the poor people of the world that innovate work hard and have great ideas. apple users just waste their time with trying to obtain admiration in a world where there's only two kinds of people; the smarter ones who know better and laugh at YOU, or the dumber ones who wish they had ur fake social status. in the end none of this matters cuz the smart ones are the ones moving the world while the dumb ones only watch.
czar 8:49 AM - 6 September, 2010
djcerla 8:50 AM - 6 September, 2010
Quote:
I hate Apple


“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

Yoda

Be careful Jedi: you're halfway the path.
czar 8:52 AM - 6 September, 2010
lol lets just say i very much dislike the business model lol
djcerla 8:54 AM - 6 September, 2010
lol
czar 8:54 AM - 6 September, 2010
good trying to twist words there btw typical.

"there isn't bigger blind person than the one who doesn't want to see"
Kmxorbit 3:07 PM - 6 September, 2010
You kinda "stigmatize" the Apple users there, don't you czar...
MusicDan 3:22 PM - 6 September, 2010
35 posts after the resurrection, 15 are from czar...

Pent up rage?

Quote:
I hate Apple


That statement says it all.

I don't hate PCs, I actually think they are really good at allot of things, Macs are good at allot of things. You have to realize, or recognize that allot more people here using Macs have little or no problems using them, whereas while there are some PC users that don't have problems the ones that do outweigh the ones that don't. And the ones that don't are really good as far as maintenance on their units. I just don't want to spend more time maintaining my computer than using it, whether to DJ or to do spreadsheets or to surf the web.

Hate all you want, but when it comes to what we do, us DJs, it clearly shows that Mac is the way to go. You go on and on about price and how we are just looking for the status quo. How all we want is to look good, when all we really want is to sound good, and there is no better way to sound good when DJing on a computer than on a Mac.

So keep going on and on about how MS is innovative and how Apple is just a big copycat, that has nothing to do with DJing. Czar, I have allot of respect for you, but sometimes you get really carried away. I started this post for the argument of Mac Vs. PC for the sake of using Serato Itch, not how one company made tablets 10 years ago. My mistake for not making that clear from the beginning.

Anyway, carry on however way you want to.
czar 3:26 PM - 6 September, 2010
whatever i totally skipped ur post except where u quoted me, and I fixed what I intended to say. "I dislike apple business model" I dont hate apple. If u really read than u would understand what I said but u care more to bash? ewww
czar 3:29 PM - 6 September, 2010
btw I skipped it cuz of the way u started ur post. "says it all" what says it all? read and stop talking like that. so what if i post so many times? I think its contagious...
czar 3:35 PM - 6 September, 2010
ok so now i read ur post.

are you saying windows doesnt sound good? can i laugh at u for saying that? probably not, its not nice...

when u talk about problems on windows that u dont have on mac u are very bias.

I could spend all night putting together a count of windows vs mac user problems but I wont waste my time.

if your software is well written it will work just as well in any platform
MusicDan 3:44 PM - 6 September, 2010
So you are blaming Serato?
Beatnologic 4:21 PM - 6 September, 2010
Why drive a Hyundai if you can drive a Benz?
czar 4:54 PM - 6 September, 2010
see, status quo again. u were saying?

i can answer that beatnologic. BECAUSE MY LIFE DOESN'T REVOLVE AROUND A CAR!

Because I need something that will do a job well and I dont care if no one has ever heard the product name before or how unpopular it might be, because brand to me is irrelevant, because the more money I can save to put towards my education the better (investment on my brain not my penis), because if some people stopped caring so much about how they look and what they have the world would be filled with more compassion and less ego centric selfishness and apathetic ideology. because material things don't bring happiness, because why drive a benz when I can drive a Hyundai, or better yet an electric car like the Volt or similar, because I care about more things than just myself, because I love technology and I will take achievement over hype any day, because usability beats fashion any time, because the benz will attract gold diggers which are the people I really want to stay away from, because the same material used in one thing are used in the other and the only thing that changes is perception.

Suggestibility
"A person experiencing intense emotions tends to be more receptive to ideas and therefore more suggestible. Generally, suggestibility decreases as age increases. However, psychologists have found that individual levels of self-esteem, assertiveness, and other qualities can make some people more suggestible than others" en.wikipedia.org

Propaganda
"As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented." en.wikipedia.org

Reality Distortion Field
"1981, In essence, RDF is the idea that Steve Jobs is able to convince himself and others to believe almost anything with a mix of charm, charisma, bluster, exaggeration, marketing, appeasement, and persistence. The term has extended in industry to other managers and leaders, who try to convince their employees to become passionately committed to projects, sometimes without regard to the overall product" en.wikipedia.org

now why do you think Jobs got the job at apple again? were apple execs looking for a manipulative rat to bring in the money using psychology and disregard for the truth? YES!
Beatnologic 5:15 PM - 6 September, 2010
Lol,
Just had to add something to this discussion, don't want to upset you or anybody who drives a Hyundai. I've had a nissan and a fiat before, drove nice, we're cheap did the job. Just take a car and take off. Let skills pay the bills. Mix, blend and scratch instead of typing on one of the above.
czar 5:48 PM - 6 September, 2010
;]
czar 5:44 AM - 7 September, 2010
djfrancov 11:01 AM - 7 September, 2010
isnt that true for every company..they pitch it like the best thing ever...( like serato) when it works very well ( like apple) they add more things to they well developed product ( like effects ) or video for SSL). the ipad is no different... there is onl one company developing all this things, not like microsoft that has 1000's of people developing this for its OS. Is obvious that companies have to stay in business so their not gonna give their best right away, we all have an option to wait and use 1 or 2 year old technology... there is no guns on our heads. we just have the money to buy the latest,if we dont we wont buy it.
czar 11:53 AM - 7 September, 2010
what???? you miss the point entirely. apple "adds" nothing! get it? nothing! what money to buy what latest? you are making no sense. sorry.
MusicDan 3:20 PM - 7 September, 2010
czar, do you DJ at all?

It seems like you have way too much time on your hands. Maybe you are rich and don't have to work like the rest of us and DJ as a hobby. More power to you though.

Keep posting so we can keep being entertained. I really liked that last video, very funny.
DJChad72 11:29 PM - 7 September, 2010
i dont think czar is 1 person. I think he has a staff of people. i think i spend time on post, but he takes the cake. Sometimes I think he is posting in multiple threads at the same time.
czar 11:36 PM - 7 September, 2010
DJChad72 11:44 PM - 7 September, 2010
okay, that is it. I have decided! you are a spiderbot. that is the only way you can know of all these sites. ROFL!
czar 4:11 AM - 8 September, 2010
soon we will controll itch with the power of our brains!

www.latimes.com
DJChad72 4:25 AM - 8 September, 2010
now you are just showing off. LOL
czar 4:43 AM - 8 September, 2010
lol man i need to go out running see ya!
Kmxorbit 10:45 AM - 8 September, 2010
DJ'ing with a helmet... now, that's an image... ^^
MusicDan 4:10 PM - 8 September, 2010
Not for czar...:-o
Bidwell 7:29 PM - 9 September, 2010
Quote:
who gives a sh*t....?


what ever works, Same same, and all that.
Theory50000 10:22 PM - 11 September, 2010
I feel that a PC is an excellent Choice for the DJ just starting out but can cause a great deal of issues for the DJ that gigs regularly. Simply put, Serato is more stable on a mac out of the box. It all comes down to how long you've been spinning IMO. If you're just starting, don't drop all your dough on an expensive MBP. The occasional crash or dropout isn't the end of the world... But if you've been spinning for a while and you need to upgrade or you wanna go from say, CDS to a laptop and you gig all the time, then definately purchase a MBP. I've had zero crashes with my MBP and occasional ones when I had my PC laptop. I wanted to get VSL so I upgraded only to find out that VSL wasn't worth it and absolutely fell in love with my MAC. If you can afford it or play professionally, go mac no doubt.
czar 10:32 PM - 11 September, 2010
are u calling me and those who use windows less professional than you because you use a mac? I hope not. What you should say is that you couldn't work with windows because that is the case. Windows works with itch flawlessly. I and many more can attest to that.

Quote:
The occasional crash or dropout isn't the end of the world.


again proves that you are weak on windows. it doesn't mean that windows doesnt work. if it didnt serato would not support it, or would have a big sign on their page "we only support windows for starting deejays because windows crashes" which is not the case.

i will respect ur post as I always do with everyone because you clearly do not understand what you are saying, and do not know how to work with windows.

www.serato.com
DJChad72 11:34 PM - 11 September, 2010
I thinjbthe point here czar and you said it yourself, you need to know Windows. There are entire websites dedicated to showing users how to administrate windows to try & ensure live stability with audio streams. Musicians and DJs should not have to have an IT / Microsoft engineers degree so they can use computing for performances. That is all there is to it. Even those with serato say that the way Windows is architect, even W7, there is no guarantee your live audio stream won't be interupted. With OSX, it is made to be real time woth audio.

Those are technical facts and the vast opinion of many DJ users. While you can have a stable windows setup, it takes alot more work to get there for most compared to OSX.
czar 12:06 AM - 12 September, 2010
no man there is no guarantee in mac os either. they are computers. there is no guarantee u will wake up tomorrow from sleep (sorry cold truth)

windows and mac os use the same sound architecture under different names. ASIO (which apple used in OS 9 before introducing the next) and Coreaudio introduced by apple in OS X. ASIO is still third party. Apple just renamed it and added it standard to MAC OS.

There is no praying with windows. trust me. and no degrees needed. u just have to understand that windows is written for a broader spectrum of uses and u just need to follow simple instructions on how to "set it up" for ur needs..

now if u only know how to whine and assume u need a degree to work windows then u will never find out how easy it actually is...

have u seen how many people actually have os issues with mac? do u know what a gray screen of death is? a beach ball screen freeze? a logic board problem? they are not nice and not cheap man.

how about the problem with 2010 MBP heating and video problems? the latest OS update issues? come on. I think what u have is the classic "I spent a substantial amount of money so I am better off" bias.

U probably visited pron sites then tried to make something u need work but it was too late because u had spyware and it was conflicting with ur system.. or u just believe what u want. no bigger blind than the one that doesnt want to see.


Quote:
With OSX, it is made to be real time woth audio.


that is called ASIO or Coreaudio. see the pattern? apple is always coming out with different names for things to separate themselves from the market. "logic board" = motherboard. "superdrive" = CD/DVD reader/writer

understand? they are just playing with ur head man. using catchy names to get cha. superdrive sounds so super right? well its only a dvd writter lol
luckee_d 2:16 AM - 12 September, 2010
Why is czar always right? I hope they are taking notes while they wipe their tears away after realizing what a waste of money Macs really are. They are so overrated and the ego that comes from MBP owners is ridiculous. They think they are so elite like the damn democrats running the USA. Haha, had to throw that in their, but sooooo true.
DJChad72 3:03 AM - 12 September, 2010
ASIO and CoreAudio are the open components for how software can utilize audio hardware. It has nothing to do with the OS and how it manages other resources the system needs (ie graphics, MIDI interfaces, human interfaces, etc...) all of that is at play, regardless of how the audio components are designed. No matter how well built or designed the Audio interfaces are implemented... the rest of the OS has be amendable to live streaming. That is my point.

Here is an EXAMPLE of what I am talking about in terms of the education Windows users has to burden themselves with knowing/understanding in order to get better/best results with the Windows PC and audio applications.

www.serato.com

audioforums.com

www.soundonsound.com

www.musictechmag.co.uk

createdigitalmusic.com

These are but just a FEW of the sites that Serato provides. When I used VDJ, they had many FAQ and links they shared with users who had audio issues.

Let us ALSO not forget the new laptops coming with Vista DEBACLE a few years back. Most people had to go out and BUY a retail copy of XP for their brand new laptop because Vista would not even install their audio applications, let alone run it correctly.

Here is a REAL LIFE example documenting the difference between setting up for PC vs MAC. I have used 3 different laptops: a Gateway, a HP, and a Sony VAIO. Each one of them required ALOT of research, learning, and work to work without clicks, pops, or get a reasonable latency/response with my interfaces. The gateway was when VDJ 5.0 just came out and it took me almost 3 months before I would trust it at a gig. The HP took about a week before I knew everything was stable enough. That was when VDJ 6.0 came out. When I got the Sony, after 6 months of trying, it was never ready for prime time. It absolutely SUCKED big time. It would freeze up on me randomly, and no root cause could be found. I have a degree in Computer Science, as well as have worked in IT for over 15 years. I could not find root cause, Geek Squad could not find root cause, and native instruments, Numark, and VDJ could not come up with any thing at all. I even tried a retail version of Windows 7 without the Sony bloatware.

After that experience with the Sony, I went to a MAC. I installed the applications and "drivers" and I was up and running inside an hour. I disabled Wifi/Bluetooth and that was it! I have never regretted spending $1800 on a MBP because I spent WAY more than that on those 3 different laptops over the span of about 2.5 years and I was never satisfied or 100% confident with the performance.

I have many DJ's that I have trained and all use PC laptops because that is what they can afford. Nothing wrong with that, but they always need help with all the above "optimization." They are either scared they will mess something up or dont understand what it is they are doing... so they always need "support" to help them. If they were going to use a MAC, they would just install, adjust the latency, and play. That is a big difference and confidence builder for users who are NOT tech savy.
luckee_d 3:23 AM - 12 September, 2010
Well I bought a HP DV7-3188cl and have my ITCH Latency set at 2 with no problems at all, with the exception of the program bugs we all know about. So, I am happy and would gig in front of 3000 people.

Windows 7
Processor and Memory: Intel® Core i5 430M Processor
2.26GHz processor speed
3MB L3 cache
6GB DDR3 system memory (2 DIMM; max supported: 8192MB)
Accessible memory slots: 2
640GB (7200RPM) hard drive dual HDD - 320GB x 2
NVIDIA GeForce G 105M with up to 3311MB total available graphics memory with 512MB dedicated

So I guess I must have big balls, and about $1200.00 more dollars than most Mac owners.
Are you saying Mac owners have small balls? LMAO
luckee_d 3:35 AM - 12 September, 2010
So, No Balls at all?
DJChad72 3:47 AM - 12 September, 2010
Luckee_d did you open the laptop, install ITCH, the drivers, and off you went?
OR did you have to do any of the above customizations I listed above (in the links?) I have an HP QUAD core desktop and I love it! However I had to do the optimization changes mentioned in may of those articles in order to achieve the acceptable latency results via DPC Latency Checker. Without that, even on their elite quad core I would get latency spikes in the yellow and red. If you have never ran the test, just google "dpc latency checker." It is freeware apps that most audio software providers ask users to download to ensure their machine has been optimized for 0 latency. You may be surprised.

Every professional audio software company I have used always start with have you done all these things changes to Windows before they will even start troubleshooting their software for issues... because the majority of the issues users have are because of the OS configuration.

Without a doubt you can use Windows and not have a noticeable problem. However the steps to get there are quite a bit more numerous than they are for MAC users for the vast majority.

It does not make MAC users stupid or without guts to avoid all the hassle and get right down the business... entertaining people.
luckee_d 3:54 AM - 12 September, 2010
I know I know, I am not saying they are stupid at all. I was just razzing the Mac owners a little. Yeah, I have not added or tweaked anything with my HP, I installed ITCH and off I went. I have never experienced anything that would affect performance, the only problems I have had are ITCH problems, and they are known bugs awaiting a fix. Other than that I can run TP with no problem whatsoever. Hmmmm I should try my latency at 1 now that 1.7 is out, maybe maybe.

Thanks for the info on DPC Latency Checker, I will check that out!


:]
luckee_d 4:10 AM - 12 September, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
So, No Balls at all?

I appreciate that you to show much interest in the size of my balls, but now I'm more interested in DJing.



LMAO, I am glad we all have a sense of humor... Ok, now back to the topic of DJing.
DJChad72 4:56 AM - 12 September, 2010
as the token gay guy, why cant we talk about both? :) jk
djcerla 8:41 AM - 12 September, 2010
Quote:
windows and mac os use the same sound architecture under different names. ASIO (which apple used in OS 9 before introducing the next) and Coreaudio introduced by apple in OS X. ASIO is still third party. Apple just renamed it and added it standard to

that is called ASIO or Coreaudio. see the pattern? apple is always coming out with different names for things to separate themselves from the market. "logic board" = motherboard. "superdrive" = CD/DVD reader/writer


This shows the TOTAL ignorance of this user "czar" about computers. These statements are false. Coreaudiois a totally different audio architecture, built from scratch by Apple.
czar 9:58 AM - 12 September, 2010
yea sure cerla.
Quote:
The only truth is that all professionals in music production, live music, DJing and video/photo editing are using Mac. It´s a fact.


hmmmm wow what a fact...
czar 10:00 AM - 12 September, 2010
again the "im a professional because I use mac" in your words: "professionals use mac" and "you are not if you use windows"?

blah this is getting so old. same people same arguments. Cul-de-sac

and hey why are u so interested on the size of my genitalia? sheesh
czar 10:49 AM - 12 September, 2010
apple didnt even write mac os from scratch and ur gonna say that apple spent time and money writing core audio from scratch? for what if they had the ASIO code in hand? PLEASE! I bet anything that Apple ripped the code apart and re stitched it with different color thread, a la apple "magical device"... why fix something thats not broken! ;]

it might be slightly different sure, to not infringe copyright laws and that they dont get capped in the rear!

the same method is applied to communicate directly to the sound hardware device thus achieve minimal latency.

www.usb-audio.com

dude did u even watch "pirates of silicon valley" yet?
czar 10:50 AM - 12 September, 2010
no difference whatsoever between asio and core audio unless of course you are looking at them with the "magical apple glasses" LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!
djcerla 12:06 PM - 12 September, 2010
Do some research. You're dead wrong.
robc 1:50 PM - 12 September, 2010
Just for the record I use a PC for Itch with a Xone dx at the moment purely because most of the drop out/crash threads I am seeing for Itch are on Mac at the moment and Itch 1.7 seems to be very stable on Win 7

I do own a Mac as well but not using it for Itch at the moment althouh I use it for other music applications
DJChad72 2:04 PM - 12 September, 2010
Xone DX here w/mac, no issues at all
Kmxorbit 3:44 PM - 12 September, 2010
czar, say, Are you steve ballmer???
com'on say it, You are him, right?
Well, if you like to do some research about the apple audio architecture, I got three words for you: BING! BING! BING! ^^
czar 4:30 PM - 12 September, 2010
yawn. itch works just find under windows and mac.

breaker u keep calling me and the rest of windows users, unprofessional brotehr?

the reason why a lot of deejays and music people and artists wanna be use mac is because of a marketing scheme by apple in which they represent windows as a stiff business guy while they portrait the mac as a hip artist dude, and some software titles such as Pro tools which was not available until recently for windows. you bought into the marketing and the choice of software. apple did concentrate to have heavy marketing towards "artists" unlike windows but both systems are perfectly capable of achieving great results in the right hands.

u obviously look at deejays using windows and immediately think they are not "real" deejays right? think what u want but it is a shame if you do.

u are people trapped in old times unable to advance and move forward which is totally fine. I do agree that many of you probably had a bad experience with Vista and I didnt even use it to be honest. I stuck to XP but really.. do as u must I have nothing else to say and I have made my point enough times already.

according to you Serato should not support Windows because it is not professional. so what the heck does Serato know right. What the heck does NI and Atomix know, Ableton, Adobe, Sony, Steinberg, Cakewalk, Digidesign, ArKaos?

OMG! they are wasting their money on worthless software for an unprofessional Operating System! THEY ARE MAD THEY HAVEN'T WATCHED ALL THE APPLE COMMERCIALS! WE MUST SAVE THEM! The world is going to end 2012 (who knows).

no xorbit im not ballmer I promise... I did do research. same concept as ASIO obviously...

Here I leave u with a nice list no matter what OS u have.

en.wikipedia.org
czar 4:40 PM - 12 September, 2010
just one example from mac user having problems, which is a lot of people i just dont wish to waste too much time anymore. u people are blind like an owl anyways.

"SSL froze up and crashed on me last night at a wedding. I was playing a Madonna track where everybody was singing the epic chorus until the music stuttttereed sturred, clip clip and stop. Boooo!! haha. At the time I had minimized SSL to open up Safari to download a song off Amazon. My fault for playing with fire"

playing with fire hu? well sorry buddy, I thought u had a mac.
djcerla 4:47 PM - 12 September, 2010
No. You did not "research" anything, you rather exposed your ignorance to the whole community.

Coreaudio has NOTHING to do with Asio, full stop.
Dj_Nix 4:51 PM - 12 September, 2010
Quote:
I feel that a PC is an excellent Choice for the DJ just starting out but can cause a great deal of issues for the DJ that gigs regularly. Simply put, Serato is more stable on a mac out of the box. It all comes down to how long you've been spinning IMO. If you're just starting, don't drop all your dough on an expensive MBP. The occasional crash or dropout isn't the end of the world... But if you've been spinning for a while and you need to upgrade or you wanna go from say, CDS to a laptop and you gig all the time, then definately purchase a MBP. I've had zero crashes with my MBP and occasional ones when I had my PC laptop. I wanted to get VSL so I upgraded only to find out that VSL wasn't worth it and absolutely fell in love with my MAC. If you can afford it or play professionally, go mac no doubt.


+100 I coulda agree more. Its all about preference and paper. If you have the money- get a mac if you have the money and don't want a mac. use your win. the price of a win pc is substantially lower than a mbp... this automatically warrants a decision based on the pros/coms/preferences of the end user. neither is superior its relative to the person. im tired of the fighting. my mac is great, so was my win pc. i miss my win but i still like my mac.
DJChad72 4:52 PM - 12 September, 2010
Have you noticed that consumer/prosumer applications are mostly Windows based only, meanwhile pro apps are both? wonder why they would bother with both if one was more professional than the other?

i think there is a reason and that is because the avg consumer is Windows, but when you go up tp pro market you all of a sudden encounter both. I wonder why that is?

Apple developed Logic souly for MAC users. Therefore I would venture to say they are in fact vested into enabling their musically inclined users. I do not see Microsoft doing the same, do you? I would say MAC is putting their money where their mouth is.... I would market that fact too if I had thown money into R&D and brought one of the TOP music platforms to the market! Wouldnt you too?

And dont even play the marketing card with me mister. How long did people think MS-Bill was the anti-christ because they were "taking over" ROFL. Really! Steve Jobs is just the latest version because Apple is making a big push into the market place as a long term investment into people's computer needs. And they are right, I can see having my MBP a VERY long time, even though I LOVE "the new computer game" almost as much as the "new pair of shoes" game. LOL

</quote>"SSL froze up and crashed on me last night at a wedding. I was playing a Madonna track where everybody was singing the epic chorus until the music stuttttereed sturred, clip clip and stop. Boooo!! haha. At the time I had minimized SSL to open up Safari to download a song off Amazon. My fault for playing with fire"
</quote>

Czar, That is CALLED USER ERROR ON ANY PLATFORM!!!!!!!!! ROFL 1) why would you have wifi on at all knowing it can jack up your audio on any platform, 2) why would you not be prepared BEFORE your gig with all the music you would want/plan to play?, and 3) if you want to be able to download music while playing, get a second laptop to access, download, move to thumb drive, and load on your performance rig. Jezzzzus! This guy should be on a MAC.. imagine how dangerous he would be on a Windows PC? LOL He would be headed for a reformat/restinall inside a month if he does not know when "NO means NO!."
DJChad72 5:36 PM - 12 September, 2010
I was thinking.... What is funny is HP (who is my choice for all PC based hardware) made a laptop series with Native Instruments called ENVY a year or so ago. The price point was into the $2000+ range; however it included an Audio2DJ and Traktor LE. Given the Audio2DJ retails for $100, the manes the rest of the laptop was still WAY over $2k. But that is what HP would consider a music pro grade laptop, worthy of the performing DJ. Interesting ... isnt it?

Here is a link to their latest line of ENVY laptops: (please note RECOMMENDED CONFIGURATION: $1,770)

www.shopping.hp.com

They are now outlet items on bestbuy.com and boy are they heavily discounted: $1600 and $1800 !

www.bestbuy.com

I guess Apple isnt the only ones marketing to the DJ/Music crowd huh? Cheaper than a MAC, yes. But not by much... and yes, Windows fanboys, the specifications are higher. However that is because Windows has a big @$$ and needs the extra horsies to carry her to the show! ROFL
czar 5:46 PM - 12 September, 2010
lol that last sentence was funny. however I dont support that laptop at all! its a gimmick pure and simple.

the OS has nothing to do with how the sound works. the software communicates directly to the hardware. Asio is a driver just like core audio.. one is integrated the other one is not.

@ cerla

do u think mac sounds better than windows?
djcerla 6:11 PM - 12 September, 2010
Answer: no, the Mac itself doesnt sound better than Win.

The sound depends on mix algoritms (on DAWs), each software has a distinct sound. If you like Digital Performer or Logic sound then it's Mac-only; Sonar is Win only, all others are cross-platform.

But a better sound architecture such as Coreaudio grants more flexibility in routing, aggregated devices and it's far more stable, as Serato has remarked several times. Apple hired Dr. Langeling from Emagic and bought his company years ago, and put this genius as a Chief for Audio Department; that's why Macs have nowadays a much superior audio architecture.
luckee_d 7:07 PM - 12 September, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
again the "im a professional because I use mac" in your words: "professionals use mac" and "you are not if you use windows"?


No. I'm not saying that if you use Mac you're a professional. I'm saying it's a coincidence that most professionals use Mac and surely must be a reason for that.

Anyway, using the best tools will never make you to become a professional. If you are a professional you can make people enjoy using the latest tools or an old pair of turntables or CD players.



Just because MAC is a Trademark for DJ's and other audio/video professions does not make it the only "professional" platform for our line of work. So to say that MACs are the best tools is you being an elitist (I am better than u attitude). Basically you think you are better because you have a MAC, you remind of that kid in school that had to be like everyone else with the clothing styles. Ooooohhh he gas MC Hammer pants, now I am gonna wear them, Oooooh he wears his pants backwards so I am gonna flip mine around LMAO. It is more of an Iconic issue with owning a MAC, people have to own them because other professionals have them, so dont think for a minute just because "I have a MAC" that you are by any means that you are more of a professional. A suit from the thrift store costing $25.00 can be just as good or even better than one bought at a major store for hundreds more. Get my point?
My W7 PC has no issues with sound or audio programs whatsoever, so your argument is invalid. And I am done, Thank you thank you!
DJChad72 7:51 PM - 12 September, 2010
Quote:
lol that last sentence was funny. however I dont support that laptop at all! its a gimmick pure and simple.

the OS has nothing to do with how the sound works. the software communicates directly to the hardware. Asio is a driver just like core audio.. one is integrated the other one is not.

@ cerla

do u think mac sounds better than windows?


I could not disagree more. The ability for a machine to output clear audio also depends on the ability for the machine to juggle all the other operations at hand... such as display wave forms, display wave forms in motion, read tags, perform search operations, changes to configuration parameters, receive/send MIDI commands and parameters, etc... All of these operations are characteristics of today's DJ and DAW software options.

Also, the OEM's ability to manufacture QUALITY drivers for their hardware to run on Windows effectively is also a BIG characteristic. With Apple, they make the hardware and the OS, therefore they have the ability to CHANGE either to suite their situation. Other OEM's do not have this capability unless they are able appeal to Microsoft, in which case resolution to issues takes ALOT more time compared to when the fix agent is all under 1 roof.

Lastly, this whole debate about mac vs pc ; professional vs non professional is simply stupid as there is NO debate at all. Proof is in the pudding folks, otherwise we would not be having this debate at all... we all know the perception is there. Therefore making it very real in our industry. If you buy a MAC, then you are perceived as taking the job more seriously than the average PC based DJ. It is instant credit, and I have seen it for myself... and others in this forum have too... as I said... we would not even be having this debate if people didnt have this perception.

The real debate is does the MAC line deserve the praise it gets over Windows based systems?
czar 5:54 AM - 13 September, 2010
Quote:

I could not disagree more. The ability for a machine to output clear audio also depends on the ability for the machine to juggle all the other operations at hand... such as display wave forms, display wave forms in motion, read tags, perform search operations, changes to configuration parameters, receive/send MIDI commands and parameters, etc... All of these operations are characteristics of today's DJ and DAW software options.


I said the OS (Contrasting windows and mac) as to say that they both work the same..
all those things that u mention are dependent on the hardware more than the OS at this point were we are again talking about windows and mac OS's..

Quote:

Also, the OEM's ability to manufacture QUALITY drivers for their hardware to run on Windows effectively is also a BIG characteristic.


yes.

Quote:

With Apple, they make the hardware and the OS, therefore they have the ability to CHANGE either to suite their situation. Other OEM's do not have this capability unless they are able appeal to Microsoft, in which case resolution to issues takes ALOT more time compared to when the fix agent is all under 1 roof.


no. apple uses same hardware as anyone else.

Quote:

Lastly, this whole debate about mac vs pc ; professional vs non professional is simply stupid as there is NO debate at all. Proof is in the pudding folks, otherwise we would not be having this debate at all... we all know the perception is there. Therefore making it very real in our industry. If you buy a MAC, then you are perceived as taking the job more seriously than the average PC based DJ. It is instant credit, and I have seen it for myself... and others in this forum have too... as I said... we would not even be having this debate if people didnt have this perception.


we are having this discussion because people like me want to change that perception.


The real debate is does the MAC line deserve the praise it gets over Windows based systems?
Quote:


exactly. and I am one to think it really does not.
czar 6:04 AM - 13 September, 2010
Quote:

A DJ is also professional when he devotes his time to discover new music, learn new tricks and training.


a professional to me is someone who knows how to do a job WELL. discovering music learning new things related to a skill and practicing are all attributed to being a professional, but u can spend all day looking for music and training to get a perfect scratch, and if u r not polite and dont have good working ethics as well u are not a professional. right? u r just a sad waste of talent.

Quote:

When someone spends the day writing is called a writer. For example Noah Gordon.


ha?
djfrancov 10:43 AM - 13 September, 2010
ok Im done tracking this discussion....dont kave the time to read Czar's book.
djbagz 12:26 PM - 13 September, 2010
sorry im gonna add my 5 cents

If you can afford a mac book pro then why wouldn't you buy one...

But in my case there are only 2 things that stop me buying a mac book

1,The price,mac books cost way to much money !!!
2,pirated software is a no fly zone with a mac book boooo!!!


in other words a pc is much cheaper and more down my alleyway..so 1 piont for the pc
djcerla 12:51 PM - 13 September, 2010
Quote:
The price,mac books cost way to much money !!!


If you consider the TOC (total ownership cost) rather than RSP (retail selling price) like you should, you'll soon realize that Macs are sometimes actually CHEAPER than PCs counterparts, due to a much higher reselling value. This is especially true for basic configuration Macbooks and Macbook Pros.
Kmxorbit 2:59 PM - 13 September, 2010
Quote:

2,pirated software is a no fly zone with a mac book boooo!!!

That's why Mac progs are actually cheaper then windows counterparts and/or more value for money.
I don't mind to pay for companies that make good progs as long as the price is right and/or affordable. My money will make them help to develop their soft a step further.
czar 5:25 PM - 13 September, 2010
cerla we are talking about machines to run itch, not machines to re-sell. no one will want to buy ur used macbook when they all need a better one trust me. unless u feed them "the mac is better" and they buy it too.

pirate software exists on mac too.

I think the reality comes down to windows being widespread thereof less expensive prices. some seem to confuse price with quality which is sad.
djcerla 6:07 PM - 13 September, 2010
You're so wrong, again.

Used Macs sell like hotcakes at very high reselling values compared to windows PCs.
czar 6:08 PM - 13 September, 2010
yea ok u are drinking too much apple kool aid man. the risk of buying an used electronic from second hands is high and makes it unattractive.
djcerla 6:11 PM - 13 September, 2010
You're wrong.

There's a flourishing second hand market for Macs. Check the Italian site www.macexchange.com as a reference.

I sell my old Macs there, in less than 3 days usually. After posting the ad, you're literally overwhelmed by requests.
djcerla 6:15 PM - 13 September, 2010
Beatnologic 6:29 PM - 13 September, 2010
Sold my old dual g4 in just one day. They still keep value where my old p3 and p4's still collect dust.
This g4 was My first Mac after being a true windows lover. Bought it because at the time professional audio software wasn't available for windows. I'm talking about cubase and maxmsp. Read, video scratching.
After that I realized that is is cheaper than a Dell or other brand pc. Believe it or not.

Czar, don't get mad again for posting once this week :-P
DJChad72 11:48 PM - 13 September, 2010
czar, you are not making a very good point here at all. Sorry. You are talking about $115 on a 5+ year old computer. I couldnt give away my 5 year old Gateway desktop tower. Also, I bought my Sony VAIO for $800 and when I sold it to a service to avoid the ebay/paypal fees and hassles, I got only $350. I only had it from mid Nov until Feb the following year and it took a > 50% drop in price! I bought my 2009 MBP for $1754. If I was to just sell the MBP now, I would get more than $1k for it. That is almost 60% of what I paid for it new. That is EXCELLENT compared to my Sony at nearly 40% resell. I also have a $400 accidental and replacement plan for 4 years that can be transferred to the new owner or prorated and cashed back to me.... if I was to transfer it it would definitely easy the potential buyer.

It is definitely good business sense for any DJ who looks at their laptop as an "asset" to look at the shelf life and resell value in an upgrade scenario. MACs owners do tend to keep their current machine alot longer than PC users. I am living proof of that... 3 PC laptops in 4 years! I have had my MBP since Feb and I would only upgrade to a new 2010 model just to upgrade... not out of necessity to continue doing business.

macvspc.info

www.businessweek.com
djcerla 11:55 PM - 13 September, 2010
Quote:
You are talking about $115 on a 5+ year old computer


Say a 6/7 years old computer.
djcerla 11:58 PM - 13 September, 2010
A 2 years old Macbook sells at around 60% of initial price. Pretty amazing if you ask me.

Only Ferraris do better (75%).
czar 3:43 AM - 14 September, 2010
what u mean to sold it to a service?

what do u expect to make out of a 800 computer? ok, so u lost 450...

out of 1750 say u get 1100 u lose 650. 1200 u lose 550.. 1300 u lose 450.. the same as above. u think u gonna sell it for more than 1300? if u do well kudos then.

dont forget that u dont have an i core processor, and ur video card is likely a 9400 not a gt330m. the 15" with an i5 and the gt330m is 1699 in the apple store with the student discount and warranty. if u ask someone for 1300 its not very likely to sell, simply because for 400 more they can get a "new" one with a better processor better video card and a year warranty..

cerla to u anything that has an apple sticker is is pretty amazing lol ;]
DJChad72 4:25 AM - 14 September, 2010
I would have to look up the name of the service but they buy used electronics and then sell them on eBay or store. You normally get 80% of the going rate on used eBay completed auctions and they give you the auctions they base their offer on. No fees. No worry that an eBay buyer breaks it and sends it back, etc... very useful.

Czar, you're looking at this backwards. If in 1 or 2 yrs I can get 500 or so for my 2009 MBP, that is $500 towards a new one. You do not get that type of resell out of of laptops.... trust me I know first hand. :(

And when its a college student, who do you think is paying the shopping bill? Lol $400 is a world of difference to a parent putting their kid through college or a college kid with an allowance or part time job. If they can get a MBP that runs marginally slower from a human perspective and has all the same apps and versions they need.... you bet your @$$ the used MBP wins! LOL. Who wouldn't want newest and latest? But $400 is a years books for a college student.

Also I played on a MBP 13" core 2 duo side by side with an Intel i7 or 5 which ever it was... and could hardly tell a difference in opening and closing applications or streaming a video. Only when your start to multi task do you see a slight sub second difference in performance.

I don't think the hardware specs matter as much on OSX as it does with Windows. As I was trying to illustrate earkier, Apple controls what hardware they out into their products even if they don't make it all, and they evolve the OS. It is much easier and tighter for them to deliver a holistic product because other OEM rely on Microsoft for all OS support. Look at the Vista debacle a few years ago... disaster! I was one of those people trying to find a cheap retail version of WinXP (ended up paying $200) so I could run ProTools and VDJ in a stalble environment. Having to completely change the OS out of pocket because the OS on board is unstable is and was not acceptable.

Also I find it hard to believe Serato users would bawk at the Apple model. This is a model that probably attracts a lot of us here to Serato. The HW and software are delivered in tandom with one another for SSL AND ITCH. Which means it is made to work seamlessly. All technology fails and have issues. That is an issue for any OEM or Software provider, not exclusive to Apple.
czar 4:50 AM - 14 September, 2010
blah blah blah whatever? u r making no sense at all. if u got 350 out of an 800 machine that 350 towards another 800 machine with highers specs. I think u are thinking that u got 350 towards changing to buying a much more expensive mac thats why u didnt feel like 350 was much. but if u bought an 800 dollar comp then u would have had to only pay another 450.. u r the one looking at it backwards.

now about paying 1300 u r drinking too much apple juice again.

the risk of buying a used macbook outweighs the savings and people who buy macs buy them because they think they are better, so chances are high they will consider the i processor a huge step forward.. so ur argument even though that it is a bit right, is not enough to outweigh the risk taken into buying a used computer, a new processor, (which is actually pretty good) and the better video card which u left out on ur side of the argument..

try to put it on craigslist just for the sake of the argument.


1250
newyork.craigslist.org

17" 1300
newyork.craigslist.org

1150
newyork.craigslist.org

1350 with apple care to 02/2012
newyork.craigslist.org

1400 or best offer "all which cost me over 2k$"
newyork.craigslist.org
djcerla 7:04 AM - 14 September, 2010
What risk? We're talking about the seller's prospective now, not the buyer's.

Macs are better built and last longer compared to the average PC and this is exactly the reason why prices of second hand Macs are so high. Most Windows PCs go straight to the dump (your own words imply it), whereas Macs have a much longer life, thru 2, 3 owners.

This is a proven fact, denying it will only make you look dumber.
djcerla 11:23 AM - 14 September, 2010
Holy Cow!

From preliminary data it looks like Apple is going to sell a record-breaking 3.8M Macs in the Seotember quarter, up 23% from last year. While the iPad is literally crushing the Netbook market and iPhone can't be made fast enough.

Not a good time to be Apple-haters ;-)
czar 12:55 PM - 14 September, 2010
technology moves faster than electronics period. ur 2009 macbook is already outdated or else apple would not have new models in the store. windows machines are less expensive simply because production and demand have brought the prices down to where they are.

im glad mac is selling well. finally it will gain market share and it will be more attractive for spyware and malicous attacks, finally breaking free by itself from the misconception created by apple in the first place as a marketing strategy.

apple cannot have anything made fast enough. maybe the manufacturer doesnt like apple that much, or it is apple's strategy to cut supply as to appear busier.
djcerla 12:59 PM - 14 September, 2010
Quote:
tapple cannot have anything made fast enough. maybe the manufacturer doesnt like apple that much


yeah! Sure. They don't like Apple.

When Apple's iPhone4 was nearing production, Foxconn and Apple discovered that the metal frame was so specialized that it could be made only by an expensive, low-volume machine usually reserved for prototypes. Apple's designers wouldn't budge on their specs, so Gou ordered more than 1,000 of the $20,000 machines from Tokyo-based Fanuc. Most companies have just one. "Terry is a strong leader with a passion for excellence," says Tim Cook, Apple's chief operating officer. "He's a trusted partner and we are fortunate to work with him." The Longhua plant now produces 137,000 iPhones a day, or about 90 a minute.

So sorry for you poor czar. At every sentence you dig yourself deeper.
DJChad72 1:05 PM - 14 September, 2010
Czar, you are just embarrassing yourself buddy. Quit while you area ahead. I tried to sell a used Sony Vaio 3 months after I bought it brand new and it depreciated 60+%! That's worsebthan a car! Lol. I am 7 months into my Mac and it has only depreciated less than 40% even though a whole new line of MBP's have come out.

I think what it comes down to is you don't pay over a $1k for your laptops and that works fine for you. You don't accept the HP Envy line.... a line they say is suited for Music professionals. So one can only assume you don't accept expensive machines pc or MAC alike.

Saying that if all the user can afford a pc laptop, then get a pc laptop. Every DJ I know, myself included has got it to work but after a lot of labor; disable WiFi, Bluetooth, anti virus, change performance settings, change usb settings, change hard drive sleep settings, and the list goes on. Not all users are willing to accept that solution and are comfortable paying the price for an Envy or MAC.

If your soul argument is price, then you should also be advocating that people buy only Ford Fiesta's and Toyota Prius. Can you get from A to B in those cars? Absolutely! Is it what you want to drive, probably not if you are a DJ and have equipment to haul. Just like you can't say a Ford Fiesta and a Jeep Cherokee ate the same, you can't say a $800 Sony Vaio is anywhere near the quality of a product as a MBP. I can tell you first hand... it does not even compare!
czar 1:28 PM - 14 September, 2010
lol! "apple discovered" meaning they dont even know what they make? lol clear propaganda. how can they not know if something is possible, do they not know how to do the appropriate research for their plans?

20,000 machines? one printer for a publishing press costs half a million.

whats 20.000.000 when they make %100 profit on parts anyways? for companies worth billions 20M is chump change. FOXCONN almost 62B revenue and net income of 1.74B...

please man. the reason why people change electronics is newer models and newer/more options.

Problem is that u read your "news" from macrumors.com

as for this chad. keep giving ur money away then ask yourself how much it is an hour worth of your time to learn how to do a simple set of optimizations. =D

windows machines with same hardware specs than macs will work the same.

keep drinking ur apple juice. i got bigger fish to fry.
djcerla 1:37 PM - 14 September, 2010
Quote:

Problem is that u read your "news" from macrumors.com


www.businessweek.com

Your hole is deeper and deeper.
MusicDan 9:31 PM - 14 September, 2010
Man, that article is almost as long as the posts that czar writes. ;-)
czar 11:23 PM - 14 September, 2010
its been months of this thread =D my lord since February... hahaha

from the same article..www.businessweek.com

"Foxconn is spending $1 billion on a factory that will produce 30 million machines a year just for Hewlett-Packard. "

"Terry is a strong leader with a passion for excellence," says Tim Cook, Apple's chief operating officer."

hmm guess I have to be happy that (Terry) is producing HP then =]

idk man I see things like the iphone and ipad such low term devices. intel popped out the dual core atom and now another chip its on its way. (u will say the ipad lasts, but people will want the newer model as soon as it comes out, thanks to apple marketing and business model that sells a trend and "fashion collection" that makes its consumers believe these electronics are (must haves)) the iphone 3g is obsolete, and the iphone 4 will most likely be obsolete by mid year 2011.

all this electronic waste created by the urge to profit faster and faster ends up specially in China, the same country its made by (Terry) in poor villages where there are no regulations and strict guidelines for its "recycling"; poisoning generations and destroying ecosystems and the environment.

So maybe we can agree that Terry/Apple/HP should be responsible for this?

www.cbsnews.com

"It's a town in China where you can't breathe the air or drink the water, a town where the blood of the children is laced with lead. It's worth risking a visit because, as correspondent Scott Pelley first reported last November, much of the poison is coming out of the homes, schools and offices of America. "


news.cnet.com

"The study predicted that mobile phone waste in China would be about seven times higher than 2007 levels by 2020, while in India it would be about 18 times higher."

Jim Puckett from the U.S.-based NGO Basel Action Network, which tracks illegal trafficking in e-waste, said Indonesian authorities recently discovered a shipment of nine 40-foot shipping containers of e-waste that had been sent from the U.S. state of Massachusetts.

"They were full of hand-stacked cathode ray tubes, computer monitors, basically. It was old junk that people wanted to get rid of because everyone wants flat-screens now," he said."


www.upi.com

"The most immediate problem is the health of the workers and the people who live in the city," Bernd R.T. Simoneit, OSU professor and one of the authors of the study, said. "But this may also be contributing to global contamination. For example, previous studies have found carcinogens in wind-carried dust from Asia."


See Im trying to look at the bigger picture.
czar 11:39 PM - 14 September, 2010
I have a huge problem with e waste and that a big reason why I dont like apple, I think that by what they charged they should provide with security that their products wont end up killing people right behind the factory that they were built. Ex, Win7 can be installed in machines dating back to 2001, Snow Leopard only to 2006. Windows mobile was up datable many times and has a great tweak capability also growing with time ( i had a winmo 2002, and I was able to upgrade software many times over until winmo 6.5, current latest.. I just made sure to buy a device powerful enough to endure time, which has worked very well in the end.), the iphone is "old" once the "newer" model comes to market. of course pushed by apple. remember the "it wont take video so *unfortunately* u have to buy the new one" with iphone 3G, in reality all it needed was a software upgrade. and people could end up unlocking the device, but apple of course wont say that, cuz they profit a LOT from hardware, more than software. hence why the look factor is so important for them.

High standards for recycling (needed) have created a huge contraband of unused electronics out to places where the mayority of consumers is not watching.
djcerla 11:57 PM - 14 September, 2010
Quote:
I have a huge problem with e waste


bad news for you.

www.greenpeace.org

look where is Apple and where are Lenovo, Acer, Hp, Dell... and worst of all, your beloved Microsoft, the dirtiest company in the tech sector after Nintendo, according to Greenpeace (and not according to macrumors)

On the e-waste criteria, Apple has improved coverage of its take-back programme with take-back and recycling services now extended to the Asia-Pacific region, including India, China, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, New Zealand, Korea and Australia. It reports a 2008 recycling rate (as a percentage of sales seven years ago) of 41.9 percent, up from 38 percent in 2007 and 18 percent in 2006; however, it needs to provide details on how this is calculated. Apple has set a new goal of achieving a 50 percent recycling rate by 2010.
djcerla 12:00 AM - 15 September, 2010
Microsoft Windows+(pick one: Lenovo, Acer, Hp, Del)=monster pollution.

Go green, czar, get a Mac.
KLH 12:08 AM - 15 September, 2010
Quote:
Go green, czar, get an iMac.

Fixed.

Quote:
Go green, czar, get an iPad.

Fixed even better.

Quote:
Go green, czar, get an clue.

Best fix.

Just play, Czar, keep this going. I'm enjoying the show.

-KLH
KLH 12:09 AM - 15 September, 2010
Dammit. No edit.

-KLH
czar 12:30 AM - 15 September, 2010
why bad news for me? ITS GOOD NEWS! IT MEANS THAT COMPANIES NEED TO COMPETE!

apple's makes money from hardware so they of course will favor to be more careful.

I am disappointed at the other manufacturers yes, and they have been getting away with it because of control over the market. Apple should push to lower prices.

def not bad news.. good news. I am thankful that comapnies are competing hard to be green.

according to that graph from December 2009. Toshiba was ahead of Apple on the race to become green, Sony at the same level, HP not too far behind, and Acer close by as well.

so no cerla I still have Toshiba and Sony defending me! hehehe ;]

I wonder how its looking now to compare it again in 6 months and get a picture..

who knows what will happen. And dude stop having this idea that I hate something.

I prefer windows because Im used to it, it works great, many more people write code for it than for other OS's, and its affordable. Its a great OS.

if u find up to date statistics I would like to see them. But didnt u really see Toshiba ahead of Apple and Sony beside it?
czar 1:02 AM - 15 September, 2010
www.crunchgear.com

Cerla go green, get a power counter. brought to u from truly your: yes u guessed it. lol im kidding its not all that. except that it will let u know what ur power usage is from a web page which is great.. but not something too great..

lol in all seriousness I think this debate will never end. both apple and MS will keep moving forward until something like one of them closes or something along the lines happens.

woo 2010

www.datacenterknowledge.com

research.microsoft.com

www.microsoft.com

Cerla, it's free get started.
blog.microsoft-hohm.com

LOL im telling u 2020 and we will still be writing..
DJChad72 1:11 AM - 15 September, 2010
Quote:
idk man I see things like the iphone and ipad such low term devices. intel popped out the dual core atom and now another chip its on its way. (u will say the ipad lasts, but people will want the newer model as soon as it comes out, thanks to apple marketing and business model that sells a trend and "fashion collection" that makes its consumers believe these electronics are (must haves)) the iphone 3g is obsolete, and the iphone 4 will most likely be obsolete by mid year 2011.


I could not disagree more. Marketing only delivers the message, it is up to the customer to decide if they want it or not. In today's society status means alot to alot of people, not just Apple customers or fan boys. No one forces you to buy HP or Apple. No one forces you to buy Acura or Dodge. It is your personal choice if it fits your needs and if you can afford it.

There is a time clock on every piece of technology you buy. It does not matter if it is an iPhone or an HTC Evo... people are going to want the iPhone 5 and Evo 2. Tech is developing quickly and the leaps are occuring with in months or years and not decades anymore.
czar 1:23 AM - 15 September, 2010
still I have the feeling that the win7 phone will be software upgradable far past what an iphone will, as well as the android OS. I could be wrong thought. IDK

besides im happy with a regular phone to talk, and a netbook to work/surf web. Iphone just gets a 5MP camera while sony has had it for a while.. It seems like apple is always behind on software and features and always ahead on looks.

Quote:
In today's society status means alot to alot of people, not just Apple customers or fan boys.


agree

Quote:
I could not disagree more. Marketing only delivers the message, it is up to the customer to decide if they want it or not.


do u know what psychology is?

www.consumerpsychologist.com

en.wikipedia.org
"Marketing is the process by which companies create customer interest in goods or services. It generates the strategy that underlies sales techniques, business communication, and business development"

In other words, the customer does not already have the need for a product, the company creates it..

Ex. we dont "need" it but MS is working to seamlessly bring TV, Computer and Phone together. Ex. phone rings TV/Computer; mutes/pauses. It will have marketing behind it.
czar 1:24 AM - 15 September, 2010
still I have the feeling that the win7 phone will be software upgradable far past what an iphone will, as well as the android OS. I could be wrong thought. IDK

besides im happy with a regular phone to talk, and a netbook to work/surf web. Iphone just gets a 5MP camera while sony has had it for a while.. It seems like apple is always behind on software and features and always ahead on looks.

Quote:
In today's society status means alot to alot of people, not just Apple customers or fan boys.


agree

Quote:
I could not disagree more. Marketing only delivers the message, it is up to the customer to decide if they want it or not.


do u know what psychology is?

www.consumerpsychologist.com

en.wikipedia.org
"Marketing is the process by which companies create customer interest in goods or services. It generates the strategy that underlies sales techniques, business communication, and business development"

In other words, the customer does not already have the need for a product, the company creates it.. so marketing does not "only" deliver a message, it is designed to MAKE U WANT THE PRODUCT!

Ex. we dont "need" it but MS is working to seamlessly bring TV, Computer and Phone together. Ex. phone rings TV/Computer; mutes/pauses. It will have marketing behind it.
czar 1:25 AM - 15 September, 2010
do we need it really? arguably.
DJChad72 2:10 AM - 15 September, 2010
I actually like webos and android better than ios. Multi tasking is far easier on that OS's compared to iOS.

Also hate the Apple vs Microsoft commercials and is till bought a MAC. I went with a MAC because of research and actual field testing. I agree some people believe everything they read and hear, but there is always a 30 day return policy. The guys at Best Buy are pretty persuasive too and I asked which brands they see the highest returns on and it definitely wasn't apple. :)
Theory50000 3:45 AM - 16 September, 2010
Quote:
are u calling me and those who use windows less professional than you because you use a mac? I hope not. What you should say is that you couldn't work with windows because that is the case. Windows works with itch flawlessly. I and many more can attest to that.

Quote:
The occasional crash or dropout isn't the end of the world.


again proves that you are weak on windows. it doesn't mean that windows doesnt work. if it didnt serato would not support it, or would have a big sign on their page "we only support windows for starting deejays because windows crashes" which is not the case.

i will respect ur post as I always do with everyone because you clearly do not understand what you are saying, and do not know how to work with windows.

www.serato.com



Oh Czar, I feel your angst. Have you ever owned a MAC? There was a time in my ignorance before I owned one where I would make similar statements to the one you made above. Rest assured, at the time I knew Windows all too well. However that is neither here nor there. When it comes down to Djing, its MAC all the way unless you're just starting out. If you can afford a MAC its worth taking the leap. Don't take it personally, it is what it is. PCs are good for a lot of things, I'm not hating at all on you or them. I'm just completely 100 percent on Apple's Jock.... Seriously dude, If my Mac had a penis I would probably suck it. I LOVE MY MAC!!!! That's what you hear people say about MACs. That they love them. You never hear people saying I love my HP! I love my DELL! With the intensity or fervor as a MAC owner. Fight it as much as you will. However you are only preventing yourself from the joys of having one.

I know its hard to hear that. I was a hardcore PC person too. Sometimes you just gotta let it go though... Keep fighting the fight if you must but in the end there really is no substitute when it comes to work with Audio. If you can afford one, give it a shot its worth every penny.
Theory50000 3:49 AM - 16 September, 2010
Oh yeah one more thing CZAR. Owning a MAC definately is more professional gear than a PC running Windows.
Theory50000 3:51 AM - 16 September, 2010
And finally, it doesn't matter if I'm not a good WIndows user.... I will never ever use Windows again!!!! EVER CZAR. EVER.
MusicDan 2:56 PM - 16 September, 2010
Theory50000 please keep all your comments to one post, or at least let someone write something in between. We don't need two people here who do this. LOL!!!
KLH 3:34 PM - 16 September, 2010
LOL!

-KLH
Beatnologic 5:50 PM - 16 September, 2010
+1
djcerla 7:10 PM - 16 September, 2010
Ugly news for czar.

Best Buy CEO says Apple iPad has cannibalized netbook sales by AS MUCH AS 50%. Ouch!
czar 8:04 PM - 16 September, 2010
George W's presidency and Apple's trendy comeback will probably go down in history as one of the most baffling co-occurring mental illnesses in millennial American history. If I took a bet on who will leave a deeper hole in the growing emptiness of the American conscience, it would be evil iProduce for the win!

1. iArrogance

Bush thinks he's a genius, but constantly reminds us he's not. Apple thinks they're geniuses, and you're a moron.

2. iNherently Evil

90% of the world hates Bush, and knows why. 90% of the world hates Apple, and they have no clue why.

3. iDesuetude

Bush can only serve eight years and despite his failures, his term will end - we can start anew. Apple's term has lasted 32 years and despite it's failures - it shows no signs of ending. There is no God and Apple killed Nietzsche.

4. iDiscrimination

Bush makes fat people richer. Apple bashes fat people on national television.

5. iCyborg

Bush sounds like a computer when he speaks. Steve Jobs makes love to computers while he speaks.

6. iVanity

Bush wants to conquer parts of the world in the name of defeating terrorism. Apple wants to name the entire world after it's favorite computer... for no reason at all.

7. Boredom iFactor

Bush's addresses can put you to sleep in under five minutes. Steve Jobs' addresses make you want to poke out your eyes, tear off your ears, and hit yourself in the kidneys after 60 grueling minutes.

8. iDeficit

Bush wants us to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to repair Iraq. Apple wants us to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to replace our rectangle iPods with square ones.

9. iUgliness

Bush dresses like a stiff capital pig. Apple representatives dress like members of the Blue Man Group.

10. iWarming

Bush's decisions make lands far far away overheat. Apple makes everything in your house overheat.

Sad thing is, George Bush probably can't even operate a Mac.

"The reason why you can't do half the things on a PC as easily as on a Mac, because Macs are for 'tards who don't want to learn how to actually use a computer. 90% of the world is actually smarter than you, and it is you who is JELOUS [sic] that you can't actually learn to use a computer properly. 90% of the world can't be wrong.

By the way, Microsoft owns 98% of the computer market, and that includes anything Apple. Why? Apple makes most of its money on hardware sales, and shares the profits of software with Microsoft, with most of the proceeds going to Microsoft. Apple users usually want to dual boot Mac + Windows, so Microsoft makes a ton of money by licensing the losers Windows. Also, most Mac users know that iWork sucks, so they need to use Microsoft Office, which is again money in Microsoft's pocket. Apple = Microsoft's puppet and external R&D"


farm4.static.flickr.com

"Remind me, Which company bailed out the other to the tune of 150 million dollars in 1997? Yeah, that bite mark in the logo is from Microsoft."

Watchwww.youtube.com
luckee_d 10:41 PM - 16 September, 2010
WOW, you should write a book dude!
djcerla 11:45 PM - 16 September, 2010
Quote:
WOW, you should write a book dude!


about how well he steals other people's writings without citing the source?

hubpages.com
thebulge 12:45 AM - 17 September, 2010
Sweet jeebus, that's some quality crazy right there.
czar 4:18 AM - 17 September, 2010
yea i was about to say lol I didnt write the last two quotes! lol it says itards and I never say that. of course I did use quotations but hehe they were funny as heck nevertheless.
czar 4:20 AM - 17 September, 2010
if u pay attention they have quotes meaning they were taken from somewhere. quotes are not used when u write ur own things.. =D
thebulge 4:59 AM - 17 September, 2010
czar, I don't understand any of your arguments, all of which seemed to be based on uninformed emotive ramblings.

If your main point is that idiots use Macs because they don't want to know how to use a computer, well perhaps. I wouldn't call people that want to get said task done in the the least amount of time idiots though.

Most people use a Mac because they have a task they want to do, and the Mac enables them to do it in a faster and more compelling way. Mac users spend less time fighting their computers and more time doing things.

There will always be a hobbyist market for tweakers, but the majority of consumers don't want to know about how the insiders of their computers work. As the computer industry "grows up" this is becoming more apparent with the success of the iOS devices.

You can hate it all you like, but if I click a button on my Mac there is a better chance of it doing what it was intended to do, and with less hassle than a Windows based PC. Period.

Anyone that denies the Mac OS platform is better engineered (both hardware and software) than the Wintel platform is kidding themselves and living in a bigger fantasy land than any Mac fanboy in Steve Jobs' reality distortion field.

With Apple's prices much more on par with a Wintel machine in the past 5 years, and the TCO on both platforms actually favouring the Mac in the long-term, it baffles me why anyone owns a Windows computers at all.
czar 5:31 AM - 17 September, 2010
Quote:

You can hate it all you like, but if I click a button on my Mac there is a better chance of it doing what it was intended to do, and with less hassle than a Windows based PC. Period.



wow okay.. anyone who uses windows will find this obscene.

Quote:

Anyone that denies the Mac OS platform is better engineered (both hardware and software) than the Wintel platform is kidding themselves and living in a bigger fantasy land than any Mac fanboy in Steve Jobs' reality distortion field.


u mean the one u live in obviously.
DJChad72 1:13 PM - 17 September, 2010
What is laughable is that YouTube video coming from czar. You do realize the infringement is the fact mac came out with a new OS and then years later Windows came out with an OS very similar? All that settlement is the work of Apple ensuring it is not damaged by all the copy ware MS toted as their own.

I consider this the birth of software piracy!
czar 6:04 PM - 17 September, 2010
yea right. like your touch screen mac os? oops no it cant.
czar 6:09 PM - 17 September, 2010
ha! may 27, 2008

Watchwww.youtube.com

OUCH!
czar 1:11 AM - 18 September, 2010
then of course u could post this video; even older..

Watchwww.youtube.com

and I would say that it is a modification not from factory and keep bashing u, then u could probably find something else and keep going like this forever

Watchwww.youtube.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

lol =]

Watchwww.youtube.com
thebulge 1:35 AM - 18 September, 2010
I've think you've certainly proved the point that the argument is stupid.

Use what you like and enjoy using it!

But I still stand by my comment that the Mac is a far better engineered solution, only rabid Windows apologists deny that. You can argue that the Mac is more expensive upfront (yes it is), but you can't deny that Windows is prone to more attacks and can't be as stable as a solution that comes from a single vendor.

My point that if I am using Windows I'll probably have to have a virus scanner, and spyware tool all running in the background eating resources therefore it's more likely not to do what I need it to do in a pro audio environment.

Then I get guys saying that they never connect their pro equipment to the internet. So basically I then need to buy 2x Windows computers? That's hardly cheaper. My MBP is my main computer, it goes to work for my day job and it's got Windows 7 in bootcamp, VMware with XP all sorts of stuff on it.

It's also got SSL and ITCH installed and it comes out to a bar with me and performs flawlessly.

I support both platforms in my day job, as I am a sys engineer for a large ad agency. I know the guts of both, and the Mac is more tightly integrated solution and is better engineered. Don't get me wrong, Windows 7 is getting there... but it still can't match the attention to detail (that's the key here) of the Mac OS X and iOS. It never can because Microsoft main client base is enterprise, and they have to support too much legacy junk to keep poorly written business software a running.

It's where Apple's arrogance is a blessing, they kill an OS technology... and you had better port your software to the new APIs or your shit doesn't work. Microsoft isn't willing for whatever reason to do that which is why there is so much crap floating around STILL in Windows 7.

Developers cry, "but, but... it worked on the last version!". "We adhered to the guidelines! We didn't use unpublished APIs". Bullshit. I package software for enterprise deployment in my day job, and I can tell you for sure 80% of developers DON'T do things right. Microsoft accommodate them, Apple don't... and it works out better for the end-users in the long term.
Gonzo89 10:31 AM - 18 September, 2010
I can safely say ive never hit a button on my PC and it didn't respond the way i wanted it too.... have to agree with czar.

Macs are nice computers, its undeniable, my first comp was the original Macintosh, but windows aren't what everyone makes them out to be... im learning pro tools on a mac and it isnt any more intuitive than learning it on a windows machine...
djykcor1 7:02 PM - 18 September, 2010
Just use what u like... Macs have problems just like windows, You just dont hear about them as much cus they have millions less of users...I use both and theres no difference besides what u are more comfortable with...XP is still the best OS on PC so just stick with that till theres somethin better and optimize it to your linking and what you wanna do with it...Besides for what you pay for a Mac u can build a machine 20X better for PC, Im sorry but I have no issues with either and these discussions are always funny to me cus bottom line is Mac's are overrated, Especially when now a days Mac's and PC's are all made with the same parts lol. Mac had there time n they were great when there wasnt so much of a option but now times are different and as an advanced user on both platforms I can safley say there is NO difference... When buying a labtop Mac will overrule cus of there hardware that aint put in 99% of PC labtops but when it comes to a desktop, custom built PC will win all day...
thebulge 8:50 PM - 18 September, 2010
I call bullshit. Anyone that's used ANY computer, Mac or Windows will be familiar with the frustration of a trying to do something, having a the computer stop up, beach ball, crash, audio drop, freeze, blue screen or kernel panic.

It happens less on a Mac for many reasons.

Seriously, we had some Dell laptops a year or so a go (I think the Lat D630), so we read the specs when we were buying them and they were claiming an extended battery over the previous model. Great we thought.

They show up, and Dell's half assed engineering team add a bigger battery by having half of it hanging out the front of the laptop and calling it a palm rest. I shit you not. Then it didn't fit in the users carry bags.

www.articlesbase.com

I am happy to pay more for Apple gear because they invest more in R&D and design, and that's a screaming example. You can't deny that.
czar 9:40 PM - 18 September, 2010
February, 2006
www.ted.com
thebulge 10:08 PM - 18 September, 2010
?

What's your next video to prove your point? The Courier mock-up? None of this stuff is a product I can actually buy.
czar 11:22 PM - 18 September, 2010
what point is that?
thebulge 11:36 PM - 18 September, 2010
You tell me what a touchscreen R&D video had to do with Mac vs PC? :)
czar 11:37 PM - 18 September, 2010
so if u dont know what the point is, what are u talking about then?
czar 11:38 PM - 18 September, 2010
u say mac vs pc.

I refuse to even take this conversation further with you until you start using "Mac vs Windows" First of all.
thebulge 11:53 PM - 18 September, 2010
Oh gosh, let's start splitting hairs over different terms. Yes, a Mac is a PC. Well done, way to sidestep. You keep posting strange videos that have nothing to do with thread. Enjoy your using your Windows PC (and reloading your OS every 6 months for no good reason).
czar 11:57 PM - 18 September, 2010
u cant say that apple invest more on R&D than Intel, or AMD, Nvidia or Microsoft.

who cares about external design when your computer will overheat, and have kernel panics

when I buy a laptop; first I look up at the specifications and features, then I look at external design and stop where im comfortable with price/design, such as good ventilation.

You can't do that with Mac. With Mac you are locked into one design.
With Windows you can pick and choose manufacturer, color, features and limit yourself to your liking.

extra USB ports, eSata, HDMI, VGA, USB3, Blue Ray, more advanced graphic chips for future proof.

Im the same way with people. When I meet people first I look at the person's qualities and then their external appeal.
czar 12:07 AM - 19 September, 2010
problem is that by saying "mac vs pc" your subconscious side of the brain already separates mac from the rest of computers without actual contrast and comparison
DJChad72 5:29 AM - 21 September, 2010
If you have resorted to the MAC is a PC arguement, then I would say you are running out of google searches.

If you are spec nut, then you cant even talk about cost of the MAC. Because all the spec game will do is bust your wallet. No one will EVER have the highest spec'd machine for more than a week before there is one that is new and more powerful. If a user does nothing but chase the specifications, then they are a tech ENTHUSIAST not a USER.

A USER only cares about how to get from A to B, do a little shopping, perform tasks, DJ a set, produce some music. The only specs they are going to look at is will this program run on this machine with this OS. I submit to you determining if a program will run on OS X is ALOT easier than Windows anything. With a MAC you pretty much just need to know if it will run on Snow Lepoard and you are set. With Windows you need to know MUCH more to validate it will run.

On that account alone, OS X makes it much easier. And if it wont run on OS X, you can install Windows on your MAC via Bootcamp and run it. You can not do the same because Apple does not choose to support a infinite number for Windows machine combinations out there. Quite honestly, nether does Windows because the OEMs (ie Sony, Asus, HP, etc...) all have to write their own drivers to run Windows on their hardware.

Lastly, you cant compare MAC specs to Windows machine specifications because both OS has different performance metrics and needs to run optimally. I can tell you I have a Core 2 Duo MBP and opening Firefox on it is just as fast as my Window 7 HP Quad core. What is even funnier is that the MBP is wireless where as my HP is wired ethernet. So when studies say OS X performs tasks faster than Windows, I tend to believe them. It is NOT some marketing brainwashing or some specification search I have Googled to say "this processor is faster and cheaper so why would I buy a MAC?" IT IS BECAUSE SEEING IS BELIEVING!
thebulge 5:59 AM - 21 September, 2010
Quote:
u cant say that apple invest more on R&D than Intel, or AMD, Nvidia or Microsoft.

who cares about external design when your computer will overheat, and have kernel panics

when I buy a laptop; first I look up at the specifications and features, then I look at external design and stop where im comfortable with price/design, such as good ventilation.

You can't do that with Mac. With Mac you are locked into one design.
With Windows you can pick and choose manufacturer, color, features and limit yourself to your liking.


I can and I will say that Apple invest more in R&D and have a better industrial design department than Dell or HP. I think that's pretty darn well obvious. Aesthetics are subjective, but I've pulled down both. Apple are far more adept at packing their guts inside a smaller and better box. The example that I gave in which Dell consider it fine to hang half of the battery out the front of their laptop and call it a palm rest is a perfect example of the differences between Apple and the rest. Steve Jobs would kick someone down the stairs for even thinking about releasing something like that.

I don't know what you are basing your overheating and kernel panic comment on? Just because a Mac doesn't have 15 blue LED illuminated fans hanging out the side (and thank god it doesn't), doesn't mean it will overheat. Apple invest huge amounts of design time in cooling their machines so they are quiet and don't require as much active cooling. If you dig on garish LED fans and stuff like that, then a Mac ain't for you.

You can build to order Macs now, and choose custom options when you purchase at the Applestore - no you can't change the shape and extra ports, but a most consumers are fed up with the amount of options you have when purchasing electronics.

If you look first at specifications then you are a different consumer, you are a tweaker, gear head, etc. Frankly, a lot of stuff looks great on paper, but Apple is proving market dominance in the phone and tablet market by execution. I've bought Sony gear that looked great on the spec sheet, but had such a bad UI and was so infuriating to use I almost threw it out the window.

I'll agree that my Macbook Pro would be great to have 1x more USB port, but that's about it. Other than that, I consider it an incredibly elegant solution for me.
If it's not for you, that's fine, but I had to pull you up on some absolute nonsense there.
czar 6:32 AM - 21 September, 2010
hahahah but steve jobs wont kick someone down the stairs for saying "you are holding your iphone 4 the wrong way." oops it was him saying that. how about saying "the ipad is magical, you can change wallpaper on it" hahahaha please I am compelled to lowering myself to ur lvl but i wont.

and to finally put this to rest. the other dudes argument that firefox opens the same on a core 2 duo and a quad core is just absurd. no program can make use of extra cores if it is not written to do so. please seriously u r a terrible waste of time.
thebulge 6:45 AM - 21 September, 2010
Quote:
hahahah but steve jobs wont kick someone down the stairs for saying "you are holding your iphone 4 the wrong way." oops it was him saying that. how about saying "the ipad is magical, you can change wallpaper on it" hahahaha please I am compelled to lowering myself to ur lvl but i wont.

and to finally put this to rest. the other dudes argument that firefox opens the same on a core 2 duo and a quad core is just absurd. no program can make use of extra cores if it is not written to do so. please seriously u r a terrible waste of time.


Yes, another post that addressed nothing at all with any of the points being discussed put it all to rest. I am done too, I have no idea why I've been involved in this discussion.
czar 7:21 AM - 21 September, 2010
hahaha typical. SMH

en.wikipedia.org

"Jobs is both admired and criticized for his consummate skill at persuasion and salesmanship, which has been dubbed the "reality distortion field" and is particularly evident during his keynote speeches (colloquially known as "Stevenotes") at Macworld Expos and at Apple's own World Wide Developers Conferences."



en.wikipedia.org

"In essence, RDF is the idea that Steve Jobs is able to convince himself and others to believe almost anything with a mix of charm, charisma, bluster, exaggeration, marketing, appeasement, and persistence. RDF is said to distort an audience's sense of proportion and scales of difficulties and makes them believe that the task at hand is possible."

www.guardian.co.uk

Watchwww.youtube.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

blog.theflashblog.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

www.ozcarguide.com

forums.macrumors.com

jessewarden.com
thebulge 7:35 AM - 21 September, 2010
And post another that has nothing to do with Mac vs Windows.
djcerla 7:44 AM - 21 September, 2010
One thing for sure: Steve Jobs didn't waste his time polluting Internet forums with endless, mental posts that nobody reads.