Gotta love back handed comments, sure to inspire devs every time. I thought this was a great post until the last paragraph.

To be fair, it has been about a decade that this request has been has been made. I've made this request before as well. I am curious if there is a technical roadblock or if this is a management decision. Either way, it would be great if the powers that be could chime in. I've only done a cursory scan for flac issues in the forum and haven't seen any recent answers to this.

I have pretty much given up on Serato doing anything about these issues. This is not a post created to inspire developers. It is for the sake of transparency and to save each other the time and effort of troubleshooting & creating work-arounds. As this information is not clearly indicated anywhere on the Serato website and or manual I think we should ourselves make this information available. I have lost all hope of inspiring them to do anything about it. Clearly it will never rise from the bottom of their priority list. I have opened up a half dozen tickets and they always say they "log the bugs for a possible fix for a future update" and then close the ticket and it disappears into oblivion never to be seen again. After repeatedly doing this for years, I am of course not going to omit this in my post. There is really no excuse for issues of such basic functionality not being fixed. Ableton is a company that does an excellent job of delivering a product of great functionality and usability to the end user. I believe other companies should strive to do the same. I have bought the full software, all expansion packs, video, DVS, and a whack-ton of control vinyl. The only logical conclusion is that I offer no future revenue in the foreseeable future for Serato and therefore my needs are not as high of a priority as potential new customers (Who of course they tell that the software supports flac and is not transparent about the fact that it only partially supports it in a buggy fashion at best)

Hope you find software that suits your needs.

Here is a more up to date version of what we know about Flac functionality in serato.

I have added a dummy Flac File With all fields written to ID3 tags (I used Tag&Rename which is a great program)

Serato reads correctly;
Artist
Composer
Song
Genre
Grouping
Year
Bpm
Key
Album
Comment
Artwork
---------Remixer =NO
---------Label =NO

---------Autogain =NO

I will need to check further what it writes properly or does not.

You can also only make a column a maximum length so you are unable to see any info past this ☹ (Genre category as an example, though artist, and song columns can extend further). This is a real nuisance as I am trying to cram info into this field, as I cannot save the info like I should be able to into the correct\corresponding Flac fields as it does not work – another issue stemming from basic usability issues.

------------------------------------------------------------------

There is much room for improvement in basic useability of the sofware and this should be addressed for the current user base, though this does not seem to fit with the current company philosophy at Serato.

Things that are lacking aside from Flac issues.

Copying Smart Crates (workaround = go into “C:\Users\****\Music\_Serato_\SmartCrates” and manually copy crates)

Being able to sort crates by alphabetical order (workaround = tediously re-arranging crates one by one which is very time consuming)

Cue points reappear after deletion (I have spent much time deleting ones mixed in key created only for them to re-appear next time I load track into crate = I have not found a workaround for this yet though likely making new cue points might fix this I would imagine?). This one could possibly be related to Flac as I have not experienced it with mp3 files, though it is very possible the issue is with all file types.

I hope you find a trolling platform that suits your needs. Oh wait you have! The Serato forums.....

Uh. You just said you weren't spending more money on Serato, and I posted hoping you find what works and that is trolling?

I certainly wouldn't prioritize anyone who is stuck up like yourself. Especially since you continue to complain after you told them you won't support them anymore. LOL

Lmfao where do i begin. first of all no record pools offer flac. thats why they are called mp3 pools seccondly on a dj system you wont hear a difference. Your what is called an audiophile so Serato is clearly not for you maybe stick to using the needle drop feature for your vinyl on your $1234567656787 home system

Yea no shit, as someone who supports developers on a daily basis I can assure you you'll get no love going forward with that shit attitude. Although the fisher price comment made me laugh. You're also barking up the wrong tree, in most cases developers are over worked and under paid (in most cases) and they bounce jobs frequently because of doosh comments like what you said, among other things. They're just doing what the board members are telling the directors and what the directors are telling the managers and what the managers are telling them. I also find it funny how everyone thinks they are businessmen, like you really know what drives the dollar in million dollar companies. If that was the case you wouldn't be on a music forum bitching about a file format. People like this it's just better not to help at all and tell them to use another vendor's product. Not worth the time because they're not grateful even if they were helped. My 2c

Other threads pertaining to topic

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Closed discussions and tickets to unfixed flac issues (this was a very quick search and likely many more exist)

serato.com
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nice,and we want day mode something people actually want and we still havent got it so keep dreaming

Well so much for constructive input.............

Any constructive input would be SUPER-DUPER-MEGA-UBER-APPRECIATED!

Email Serato or call or something dude what's your point, don't make all the other troll's here suffer because of your flac insecurities.

This guy is somewhere on the spectrum.

Jeeze Louise! I should rename this post to "calling all trolls, calling all trolls".

Oh no! Now I have caught the toxicity and need to go look on a "positive" and less toxic forum to feel happy again about life, people, and society.......

Please, thanks.

I wouldn’t give up on serato/FLAC yet. Some of use less informed individuals here who think FLAC is not all that common........ did you happen to know that Serato just added Tidal support and the ENTIRE lossless catalog is FLAC lmao. This is literally serato’s partner now so they may just have some interest in it.

Little lesson hoping we can get up to speed here support.tidal.com


When attempting to belittle someone it is best to rely on facts not opinions btw. Anyways as for the OP I get your frustration but perhaps package your request and deliver to team Serato as mandatory due to the new tidal partnership. I use streaming as a supplement so I’d be lying if I said this was a top priority for me but I do agree in the future a different approach should be considered. There are s lot of bored individuals here and while they may not offer much to the community in terms of intel and technical know how they are in fact the ones you will be hearing from first and the high road is the much better road to take around here not to mention there is way too much traffic on the low road as it is lol.

Back to The original topic. Take a note that not all tag-editors of software with tag edit functions write same ID-versions. Some write stuff that are not compatible with all software. It's improved from what it was though but still.

how many djs actually streamed music up untill this point? barely any unless you got a request and had a rca to 3.5mm cable handy.

I personally would love to see better FLAC support, sorting by Label would be top of my list - it would help me immensely as an organisation option.

You are assuming every uses sdj. Most use djay pro for streaming Spotify. Furthermore Pulselocker was actually used by quite a few dj’s with serato. Nit the majority for sure but plenty enough to make this statement erroneous as well.

we are on a sdj forum arent we?

Not all DJ systems are the same. I can hear a difference on my gear. Either way, a typical 16/44 flac is the equivalent of CD, a technology that was introduced in 1982. Actually, 1978 if you count laser disc. I wouldn't consider 40 year old digital audio technology audiophile grade by any standard whatsoever. Its more like a minimum standard. Just about any free, open source music player is able to play and tag flac files flawlessly. If Serato is going to support the format, they should make it work. Its not rocket science.

For future reference, you don't drop the needle on a $1234567656787 system. You carefully place it in the groove, and then turn the motor on.

keyword " feature " sir like, an automated turntable audiophile would use

I was just kidding. But since you bring it up, they really don't put that feature on audiophile turntables.

lol us turntablists dont use them? who else would

I am starting to understand why things are the way they are on these forums.

excellent!

Can you explain this Flac is the equivalence of a CD thing? I believe Flac only began in early 2000.

CD is 16/44. If you rip a CD to its lossless file equivalent (FLAC, WAV, ets..), its 16/44. Its essentially the same thing. If you transcode a lossless file like FLAC to MP-3, most of the musical information that makes up the file is removed and discarded. That's why its called lossy compression. You can't get it back.

If you like, I can post some pics of my turntables so you can see for yourself.

I've come across some higher quality FLAC files. I believe they are 24-96 and 24-192

Serato doesn't play them...

Engine, Traktor, Rekordboxdj plays them without issues.

Work around is to convert them

Anyone else noticed?

I would recommend foobar2000 to convert them.

I use XLD

I covered this in full four years ago: serato.com (which was an extension upon this thread that DJ Val-BKNY11203 was involved in: serato.com)

show me what your old automated turntables? I have my own lol they are direct drive but very little torque and a minimal pitch adj

If you have a Mac, XLD is the best transcoder. No need to change it. If your playback software supports flac, but not high res (24/96, 24/192, etc...), then transcoding to 16/44 flac files is the proper way to handle it. And for DJing, you're fine 16/44. Shouldn't need anything more than that.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I think you didn't get my post. You brought up audiophile TT's with automatic arms. I didn't think you were really being too serious, and my comment was that usually not a feature on high end TT's. It just happens to be what I do for a living. There was no insult intended at all.

If you really want to see a pic, then have a look at this one. (This website has really good pics). This is my new TT that I bought about 6 months ago. If you look at the arm, you'll see that everything is manual, as are almost all good quality, modern TT's. That's all I meant. Sorry if I didn't explain it well.

\me aswell no shade intended, my point was that audiophiles tend to take better care of there wax then most. they are more atent to needle dropping compared to one in the club constantly cuing and needle dropping in live scenario

I don't mean to argue with you, but with storage prices decreasing every year why not convert to a 24bit resolution that Serato supports? Also I must add that the biggest fallacy with the arguments of people saying that one can not perceive the difference between standard resolution audio 16/44 and high resolution audio is based on controlled tests that minimize variables such as sound system and room size/sound (I assume these frequently referenced tests were with headphones and or sound-optimized rooms). We must realize that the soundwaves keep traveling and reverberating before hitting our ears in different environments. The resolution will indeed in theory alter the soundwaves coming out of the speakers and these differently constructed soundwaves will sound different (better) after reverberating many times prior to hitting our ears. I always try to go for the highest possible resolution reason as well as that of future proofing my collection for when the already low 16/44 by modern standards becomes obsolete!

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread. Don't give up please!

And all the trolls - please save us some time go somewhere else, kthxbye. This thread and the way it has gone is a prime example why this forum has gone down.

BTW, this problem is not only limited to FLAC. Mp4 containers (video files!) are affected as well.

It's really sad that this issue which has been know for a long time has not been fixed yet.

"I don't mean to argue with you, but with storage prices decreasing every year why not convert to a 24bit resolution that Serato supports?"

As far as I know, Serato doesn't 24bit playback. If that's the case, you would need to convert them to a format Serato is compatible. Also, I never meant to imply you should discard the original file after transcoding. That would be foolish.

"Also I must add that the biggest fallacy with the arguments of people saying that one can not perceive the difference between standard resolution audio 16/44 and high resolution audio is based on controlled tests that minimize variables such as sound system and room size/sound (I assume these frequently referenced tests were with headphones and or sound-optimized rooms)."

if you are referring to my statements, I never said, or implied any such thing. I said you most likely won't hear any difference between Redbook and high res on DJ equipment. DJ gear isn't built for sound quality. Its purpose built for sonic manipulation, and as such, is forced to make some compromises in other areas. Also, I never referenced any tests of any kind. My comments are based on 100% personal experience. I don't rely on studies or reviews of any kind. (I'll look at them, and if they seem interesting, I'll do my own listening and verify it for myself.)

"We must realize that the soundwaves keep traveling and reverberating before hitting our ears in different environments. The resolution will indeed in theory alter the soundwaves coming out of the speakers and these differently constructed soundwaves will sound different (better) after reverberating many times prior to hitting our ears. I always try to go for the highest possible resolution reason as well as that of future proofing my collection for when the already low 16/44 by modern standards becomes obsolete!"

This last part, I find a bit confusing. I get the 16/44 is obsolete comment. I bought the first SACD player to hit the market in 1999. But your comment on resolution and room acoustics, isn't correct. They're separate issues that need to be dealt with individually. For example, if you took a piano and put it in a room that excites certain frequencies, how would you fix it? You wouldn't alter the piano and put felt tape on some of the wires in an attempt to quiet those notes down. It would change the fundamental sound of the instrument. You would so something to the room itself. Same thing for an audio system. Remove the piano and put some speakers in its place. You would fix that same frequency issue in a similar fashion. Or, maybe I just didn't understand your point. Its not easy to explain how something sounds using words.

Hi, I wasn't trying to argue with you or anything (NON-TROLL). I could be mistaken but I thought maybe 24bit 4800 worked or something. I wasn't referring to anything you said, but just wanted to point out that more detailed soundwaves will have more flexibility to evolve and change after exiting the cones and before entering your ears. I was just pointing out that people do not take into account, physics and the soundwaves during that stage, when they make that argument (you did not make that argument), and that I think that is a bunk argument!

THANK YOU!

Sorry to hear about Mp4 as well :(

I know you weren't trying to argue with me and that your post was well meaning. As far as I know, Serato only supports up to 16/44. If that's not the case and I'm wrong, that's a good thing. I'm all for better quality.

As for sound evolving after it leaves the speaker, the simple answer is that it can't. It can only degrade. How fast it degrades, and by how much depends on many variables. However, I think I understand what you are trying to say. Your argument is that with a higher signal quality, people further away from the speakers will get a better experience because it will hold up better under travel. Its a sensible point, and there's some truth to it. But in reality, this is the job of the playback system. Its called bandwidth. The playback system has to be able to keep the integrity of the full bandwidth of the signal evenly throughout the room. For example, it won't be beneficial to have more detailed highs from a high res music file if they get rolled off by the time they reach someone in the back of the room. The system itself has to do that. My point was that the typical pro audio system that DJ's perform on, doesn't have the resolving power to reproduce the extra detail you'll gain with a high-res (better than CD) format.

I convert all FLAC to AIFF. The extra step is worth not worrying about crapy FLAC in SDJ.

The total number of hours DJs waste on workarounds and lame work flow for decades is probably ridiculously immense. Just for the sake of overall efficiency Serato should dedicate time to dealing with these LONG standing issues. Time is money and you would think Serato would want more money in its users pockets to spend. Or maybe adding controllers is just more profitable - some BS.

Some people love to be sticklers about stuff, which makes them either a jerk or somewhere on the spectrum. Neither is an excuse.

your opinion has been disregarded.

I have to disagree with that one, which is the reason for amphitheaters and sound halls. Degradation you may call it but that is a matter of philosophy of how the music "should sound". It's the same idea with vinyl creating warmth by the needle vibrating in the groove. If the physics of our environment changes the sound, it is an subjective perspective if the sound degrades or improves for the better. The fact that it changes means that it evolves for worse or for better. Higher resolution sound-waves would likely sound better in many circumstances after this process than lower resolution sound-waves. That is what I am trying to say.

You are totally right AKIEM, and that poopnwave guys opinions do not matter whatsoever. He just an autisticaphobe who enjoys to spreading his prejudice, intolerance, and hate speech on Serato internet forums.

+1
+1

"Degradation you may call it but that is a matter of philosophy of how the music "should sound". "

No its not. This can be measured, and is not my opinion. Here's what I said.

"The playback system has to be able to keep the integrity of the full bandwidth of the signal evenly throughout the room. For example, it won't be beneficial to have more detailed highs from a high res music file if they get rolled off by the time they reach someone in the back of the room. The system itself has to do that."

Some things are subjective, but this is not one of them. Also, after reading your last post I don't understand how you were using the word evolved. Essentially, you are using it as another word for distortion. In that context, you have it correct.

"It's the same idea with vinyl creating warmth by the needle vibrating in the groove. If the physics of our environment changes the sound, it is an subjective perspective if the sound degrades or improves for the better."

I'm not sure I completely understand what you mean there, but the needle really does heat up when playing a record. Actually, it melts the vinyl for a very short time as it plays. No one ever believes that, but its true.

"You are totally right AKIEM, and that poopnwave guys opinions do not matter whatsoever. He just an autisticaphobe who enjoys to spreading his prejudice, intolerance, and hate speech on Serato internet forums."

Hate me if you want, but I like Poopnwave.

Oh lord, the guy who literally spams 20+ threads with nonsense has NO ground to stand on. And I don't even know why AKIEM is even siding with you. At least he contributes to the forums other than bellyaching about stuff.

im not siding with anyone.

whatver this dude said elsewheres i dont know, but i agree with him here.

Serato has a legacy of leaving shit undone.

whats funny, is i was always against FLAC suppoert because there was more important things imo. I should have been against it because of poor implementation of new shit. To me there is no difference, i still convert my FLAC files as i always have.

if most of you would actually dj frequently and had to get an immense amount of music weekly you wouldn't worry about flac instead of just complaining of the lack of support for the file. Like I've said many times many for home setups on very expensive audiophile systems you can hear a slight difference but for club djes, there is no use. If this was such a big issue then Serato would address it. That's why you don't even get mods commenting on this subject around the forum. Its such a niche spot in Serato out of all the other major barebone features which lack the needed optimization

I agree. I never thought it should have been supported in the first place. However, they might as well do it correctly.

definitely, There it is so niche and a complex file format that is not manipulated easily by software. I think Serato bit off more than they could chew by trying to be a " leader " but instead pissed off the 1 percent niche flac users LOL. However, now that they have started it they should finnish it not because it matters but because im tired of seeing " name already taken " revive old threads from 2014 and make a new thread every week asking people to check out his flac threads LOL

lol.

Flac works with: Big Macs, Whoppers, Double Double's, and McRibs. That's about it.

I agree!

I noticed if I edit eg a FLAC comment in Serato, it changes back to whatever was originally written in it.

Is this issue related to the original topic...just asking

Yes please fix flac support.

Yes, same issue

I switched to Rekordbox. It is WAAAY Better.

Are you a member of every record pool? As a background music provider we certainly offered .flac files as options to our customers. CD's of coursed were ripped in the studio while promotional material was made available in .wav format directly from the labels via the DMDS portal.

Beatport users certainly also are provided .wav format.

So while there is some truth to what you stated, you're neglecting to factor in that anyone serious about their library will want to embed meta data. If you care about audio quality & care about tagging, every .wav you purchase or are provided should be converted.

Time, technology or ignorance becomes the biggest obstacle for many with regards to this.

I have had every major pool. Now on club killers and going to stay till i die. Anyways I am a club and mobile dj so 320kbs is perfectly fine and will sound excellent on any sound system. Do you think festival djs use flac? lol no. And you proved my point correct promo and cds are encoded in wav so it's obvious there isn't a high demand.

Festival DJ's play with .wav's, the equivalent of .flac.

One of my best friends headlines international festivals as a vocalist & song writer for quite a few of the biggest EDM names in the world.

This is her playing closing Tomorrowland in 2016 in front of a few 100,000 people.

Watchwww.youtube.com

The two of us have had this conversation. The ones she's worked alongside play .wav's of all their original compositions, generally instrumental versions that she performs overtop of a backing track, also in .wav format.

In addition I've opened and done lighting for many of the EDM acts that came through our province. All play .wav when mixing live, others hide behind a pre-mixed set that was recorded in .wav format. A handful, mostly pure house dj's, like Dimitri from Paris, Miguel Migs & A-Track spin vinyl, but often in smaller venues with well isolated dj booths where wow & flutter isn't a concern.

Any international dj spinning 320 kps .mp3's would be a joke in my book.

Province, ur canadian aswell. In alberta for example the bom fest none of the djs were using flac or wav files. A-traks edits get published on pools in mp3s if he had the wav why would it not get uploaded in a wav.

I would agree that few play in public with .flac. Our .flac database never left the office.

.flac's big feature is offering tagging without audio compromise. I would hope that the companies providing subscription services have mastered ALL their recordings in .flac. Doing so allows a mouse click to convert to other formats with no sound degradation. It would be a shame to have to rerip ones library from scratch now that hard drive space is as cheap as it is.

For instance my decade as a music director had everything ripped to .flac and then we could convert these files to whatever format our customers requested. Moving forward as new formats emerge no extra work needs to be done.

.flac to .aiff, .flac to .mp3 (128, 192, 320 bit rate), .flac to .wav.

Thus when converting to lossy formats all our meta data could easily be transferred.

A mouse click later and voila, job complete!

When converting to .wav, the file name was rewritten and structured Artist - Title - Version - Album - Genre. In .wav file names can be manipulated to populate meta-tag fields providing it all appears in the file name, although the naming structure must match the import method that each piece of software is designed for.

So in reality meta tags can be stored for .wav.

The issue become file name length, otherwise even more information could be included. We would use a Tag Editor (MP3TagIt as I recall) to rename these files for .wav clients.

Should one be constantly updating tags, for instance bumping a song charts history each week, rewriting a /wav's file name each week would be a mess. Most charting songs have a 6-12 week shelf life. I couldn't imagine having to rewrite file names and obviously then create new paths to each new crate that would in essence have the same music, just with a chart # changed from #5 to #4.

Better to encode in .flac, make your weekly changes until a single peaks, and then meta-tagging should be done...until an artist changes distributers, or a label merges causing more re-entry. It's really a full time job and one that can drive you crazy.

I have the entire history of Billboard stored within my files. I've more recently archived RPM Magazine's entire chart history from 1962-2000 (which is the data I briefly lost in Serato's "remixer" field and the reason I returned to the Serato forums. I successfully regained it all by manipulating "_serato_/ database V2" via trial and error until I found what I was looking for.

Anyways, in both Billboard and RPM's cases I have both the year end chart position stored as well as the position each single peaked at. There's a few dozen other fields of data at my disposal, mostly publishing information should I get back into providing background music.

In the interim I do my best to maintain this work and with the catalogue job mostly complete, it's a handful of hours each week to stay up-to-date.

Back to your point, A-Trak is a rather well esteemed DJ. As a world champion at age 15, he's spent his lifetime in studios. He's not composing tracks for Duck Sauce in lossy formats. If I were a betting man (I am by the way), I'd state emphatically his original compositions are all .wav's. Providing them to pools in a lossy format is all about saving bandwidth.

That's why Beatport charges more to download .wav format. Yes most dj's are grabbing .mp3's and saving themselves a dollar. The audiophiles are all grabbing .wav's.

Even the local dj's that spin MMETIC, Winnipeg's local festival, are playing Beatport .wav's. I'd be shocked to learn producers I admire like Tiesto, Zhu, or Duke Dumont would play on a big sound system with lossy files.

I have the same problem.

Serato forgets everything. Just like me. It's a very good combination.

Sadly going to have to drop Serato unless fixed.

Serato doesn't "forget everything." The limited number of fields on can enter data into will always be there the next time you reopen barring a catastrophe.

Nearly all fields will have your changes written to the file itself. (Artist, Song Title, BPM, Year, Comment). If you are making changes here and they are not reappearing upon relaunch, your problem is a setting issue. In all likelihood you haven't set your drive permission to "read & write". Changing from Serato to. competitor won't change this for you.

If the issue is in Serato's stupid proprietary tag fields (remixer for instance) the issue is drive space. You don't have the room on your drive to store this info. That was my issue when I composed this a few years back.

I have several 4TB external drives I gig with. During grad week I had a substantial amount of requests leading into the event and had added a few hundred videos that pushed my storage to its limit. When Serato closes it writes to the remixer (& perhaps two other) to the same drive I'm playing from. It's a small amount of info (100 MB or less) but there wasn't even that amount of room. When I launched Serato & entire field was missing.

Thankfully I have backups, but hadn't done so in a few weeks so lost 40+ hours of work. Although very rightly angry, that 40+ hours is a small fraction of the 20 years of database entry I've done so it the big scheme of things wasn't a huge loss.

Since my post Serato reached out to be via PM. They are considering implementing my suggestions in a future update.

Serato doesn't "forget everything." The limited number of fields one can enter data into will always be there the next time you reopen barring a catastrophe.

Nearly all fields will have your changes written to the file itself (Artist, Song Title, BPM, Year, Comment). If you are making changes here and they are not reappearing upon relaunch, your problem is a settings issue. In all likelihood you haven't set your drive permissions to "read & write". Changing from Serato to a competitor won't fix this.

If the issue is in Serato's stupid proprietary tag fields (remixer for instance) the issue is drive space. You don't have the room on your drive to store this info. That was my issue when I composed my OP in 2019.

I have several 4TB external drives I gig /backup with. During grad week of 2019 I had a substantial amount of requests leading into the event and had added a few hundred videos that pushed my storage to its limit. When Serato closes it writes the remixer field (& perhaps two others) to the same drive I'm playing from within the serato file system hierarchy. It's a small amount of info (100 MB or less) but there wasn't even that amount of room. When I launched Serato & entire field was missing.

Thankfully I have backups, but hadn't done so in a few weeks so lost 40+ hours of work. Although very rightly angry, that 40+ hours is a small fraction of the 20 years of database entry I've done, so it the big scheme of things wasn't a huge loss.

Since my post Serato reached out to be via PM. They are considering implementing my suggestions in a future update.

As long as I'm rereading old threads, thought I;d bump this.

Serato STILL using antiquated ID3 tags & placing "remixer" & "label" into their own proprietary file structure.

If they'd solve this issue I could:

1) Rest easy knowing all my meta data was stored within each file permanently
2) I could use a tag editor to populate a dead field like "remixer", "label " or "grouping" with data I've stored from a legitimate tag editor.

It's rather annoying to have dedicated ones life to database maintenance but then gig 200+ times a year without access to this information.

...sigh