I kind of do....though I thought I'd miss it far more than I actually do... syncing is pretty easy with the pitch sliders, but reducing steps does make it easier to do rapid fire mixing on the fly. Part of why I went to software was to be able to do some of the creative things that just could not be done with CD's or vinyl.. mashups, and such on the fly are difficult sometimes as you may need to change songs and fire off within a single phrase... having a sync button makes that possible, where starting the track and adjusting the slider just can't be done due to the time it takes.

I know all of the "i'm too cool for any automation" crowd will cry, but make it so they can turn it off, or hide the feature.

Personally, the wave view and the Beat grid are also "cheating" if you want to be all gay about it, but I don't see any of the "Purists" complaining about that!

Limiting the functionality of the software doesn't benefit anyone. Including the option to disable features would solve those problems for those who like to suffer..

I always laugh when a serato user walked up to me with my Virtual DJ and said "oh, that's cheating, it DJ's for you" I'd step back, hit the sync button to sync BPM, then say.. OK, go ahead and make the software mix... they never can.. even with matched BPM's...

I'm now a serato user, but I can tell you that it's no harder to DJ on serato than it is on VDJ.. The beat guide at the top gets you dead on the BPM.. so why not go one step further, and make a sync button?

it's a useful tool like anything else...

I think its a great suggestion being able to hide it and have it be completely optional.

+1 Definitely the way to go.

I am not a "purist" by any stretch of the imagination but I hope this feature never comes into SSL.

If you want this feature badly enough, there are lots of packages out there that have already implemented this

god i wish ppl would search this damn forum.

as a side note.
the difficulty djing on VDJ and serato is the same...but i've NEVER heard a dj using VDJ not use the sync button. if you don't use the sync button and use VDJ...you are one of the rare ones my friend.

great suggestion but make it optional.....

I would have no objection to this, as INT mode is not the easiest for fine tuning pitch.

Sync is only accurate some of the time...

I spin a ton of disco, funk, and old school 80's....

none of that stuff was quantized, so even if you beat sync it, in 4 measures, it's off again anyway.. I'm riding the pitch bends , or outer wheel of the CDJ through the entire mix

I can tell you that when I'm doing a wedding, or corporate event for example, I'm not going to bring out CDJ's, and all that, I'll simply use my MEP-7000.

I'm curious as to why those who say "I hope we never see this feature in serato" say that.

it's not an auto mix button, it's a bpm sync..

I don't know about many of you, but I'm a full time professional DJ. I support a family of 6, pay my mortgage, health insurance, IRA, etc. by DJing. I have been for 12 years. I'm not some schlock DJing in his bedroom. (nothing wrong with that, I was there 15 years ago) So as a user whose living depends on the software he chooses to deliver his services, I think that features that help a professional DJ do their thing are a smart thing to add..

I don't do clubs anymore. Nothing wrong with them, but as I get older (I'm only 35), I think it's more "Legit" to make $2500 a night to DJ, even if I'm DJing to a dentist's convention.

No software DJ's for you.... even mixmeister, which can be pretty tight, can't intelligently mix and choose proper in and out points.. so what's the problem?

sync doesn't match the tracks up, it simply makes the bpm from one deck match the other.. how much skill and technique does it take to slide the pitch slider till' it matches the opposing player? why not a button to make it lightning fast? that my friends is not DJing for you.

seriously, I have not heard one intelligent reason as to why it would not be a good feature.

those who cannot mix still won't be able to mix.

I just wish that with the substantial investment I've made into this system for my business that development wouldn't be hindered by whiners with lame DJ Names Djing for $75 and a pint of beer, because they're so "Legit"...

Boy, I hope protools and final cut never introduce SMPTE time code for syncing audio and video tracks...

Real audio engineers and Real video editors do it manually...

Using tools to further creativity is cheating.. cheating cheating cheating...

using software is cheating then... wanna' be old school, leave the laptop at home..

I'm looking towards the future...

NEVER EVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eklipze please go to sell naranjas if you can't spin

It would only apply to internal mode where you don't have a physical pitch slider. It would simply set the pitch close and not provide any automatic anything.

No hate rlaci, its strictly convenient. If you dont like it, thats cool if you do thats cool too.

-1.

no sync... -1

+10000000 if they make it in (option) why not pepole can choose to use it or no.its a personal choice...

Sync really isn't the word that we should be using. It's confusing all the people that didn't read most of the thread.

If they add this, might as well add AUTOTUNE on the scratxh box mic input :P

LOL... so we can all be rappers as well as DJs

lol
-1
No auto Synch

I can't believe people are still suggesting auto sync....... Whats next? You people want someone to pick, load and play your next song..... How about using your headphones to sync the music yourself? NOT A SYNC BUTTON...... I know this concept may be strange for those microwave dj's..... But, put in your time to practice and perfect your skill before you call yourself a dj...... This thought makes me sick.......

I love when people don't read the majority of a post. No one was asking for auto anything.

You should take your own advice Pete..... Sync between two decks is Auto Sync.....

+1 optional can make happy evryone. Why thinking for 1 when whe can think for 5 billion. (dont think for your self heater think for evry one)

I am totally against this....why should we have a feature that makes Dj'n easier......In fact....I don't even think we should have serato, it makes Dj'n too easy.....I wish everyone would go back to having to carry around cases of vinyl.....that's real Dj'n......oh and direct drive turntables should be banned too, they make scratching too easy.......yeah real Dj's use belt drive.......matter of fact....maybe we should just get rid of Dj's and go back to the days of live performances.......then we'll see who really has talent......oh yeah and I think we should get rid of modern instruments too.......that's right...get your sticks and stones and start clapping..........

It's called progress people....get over it!!!!!!!!!!!

What's with the "Nooooo" people and all the Hatersssss!!! Accept it,Auto sync is a great extra and should not be an issue,i would love it,i'v be Djing for more than 15yrs,i work on average of 5 nights a week,different clubs and all types of music,i have more than 10000 vinyls at my house.i have hundreds of Cd's,Tech 1210',Cdj's 1000s and Sl1 and 3 and i can play and mix on any system,it does not make me a better or worse Dj than the next guy,only more choice and knowledge (and less space),but each year i embrace new technology,i love it,why is it a problem?Its like a musician saying No to computers for recording or producing tunes cause "a true musician should only play live or should only record on 24inch tape or Drum machines are not real drums etc etc"Or We should go back to cassette or 8 track... Whatever way you Dj should not be an issue as it's about what and how you put it together... You wanna stay on vinyl "great... Happy for you,Enjoy..
You wanna use Cdj's to Mix Fantastic..Enjoy
You wanna keep using Serato Even better... best thing ever invented...
You want Auto sync or Fx or loop option or be able to record your voice onto Serato to scratch up or have a sampler... Thats amazing too... What's the difference..
Other systems like Traktor has some of those feature... Does that mean that the Dj's using it are crap or they don't understand how to Dj,NO,just a different way of performing,I don't like the sampler side of Serato but i don't mind it on Serato, im not screaming and complaining about it,if i want to use it,i will,and if i don't like then i just don't use it...End offfff.... Get over it peeps,should be your choice...

All I want is a button for use in internal mode to set the pitch bar to the same pitch as the opposite deck; since it's damn near impossible to smoothly change or fine tune the pitch in internal mode on the fly. I think many others within this thread are also asking for this.

I don't understand why you all make such a big deal out of this? If you really want it that much why not just get Traktor or Itch? Now understand, SSL is first and foremost a DVS. Now, if you were to hit that sync button, then drag the pitch control on the turntable/cd, the pitch would jump anyway. Beatmatching in SSL is fast already, as you can "cheat" and watch the waveform, ...if you want to...

The reason I don't want advanced autosync in SSL, is that I'd prefer the developers focus on stability and better library management.

And to be honest, beatmatching in internal mode using a midi controller is no harder than using a turntable. It is actually easier as you can see the pitch value change when dragging midi-slider/turning midi-knob, even if the if the track is paused.

Again, if this is such a important feature that you would spend time on a forum begging for it, I think you're better of switiching for another one?

There is already a way to "match" if you wish to look at the screen and match up beatmarkers. I think as DJ's its already hard enough to set yourself apart with all the dj hero's out there and the last thing any of us need is yet another way for anyone to be a half decent DJ. I like the way serato stays a little more "true" to the art then other other programs, and thats why i decided to choose it. Just my opinion.

so -1

If this comes in, I quit using serato... It's the only credible program because it does NOT have sync!!!!

Enough with the sarcasm, I would not quit Serato just NOT use it. As people say, "optional".

I did this with vinyl, and now do it easier and faster with serato - no auto-sync required

If it's difficult you need to practice - not ask for autosync

Come on people,just let it go... We all know It's gonna happen at one point or another....No need to be so dramatic about a function on a bit of software...It's a bonus for those who want to use it,Yes you can do things without autosync but it's great to have the extra.... And I bet that nobody will "quit using Serato" because of an added function,we all know once you use Serato there's no going back,YOUR HOOKED!!!!
Love Serato......Most stable software invented for Djing and i hope the Autosync is added asap...

I wouldn't use an auto-sync; but, sync or not, you still need the skills to know when to fire a song off and mix it. I have heard many guys trainwreck while staying on-beat.

auto synce is wack. and anyone that wants it is wack too, and shouldnt be djing. wack ass djs. go dj a class reunion ya bums!

Why do people just not learn the art of mixing? oh wait that takes years of practise. If you want auto sync use traktor. I use serato and traktor for 2 different purposes. I always use sync in traktor and I like Serato as it doesnt have sync and makes me focus more on the music and mixing



so --100000000000000

Please dont destroy Serato

If added, then it wud not be called ssl again!

That time of the month AGAAAIN?!?!?

UUGH when will it end?

NO to AUTOSTINK !!

go away

Sync would be a great addition to an already great hardware/software.

Uers do not have to use it if they choose not too.

If you VDJ you need this.
If you spin electro/house/physadelic (mind the spelling) you would benefit of a sync function soooo much. It would allow the DJ to focus more on FX and making his performances unique.

and yes. If you do use a computer with visuals, you are most likely matching the two decks by matching the wavelengths rather than doing it by ear. there is nothing wrong with either or; to each their own.

At the end of the day, If you manage to impress the crowd by doing your own thing AND throwing in your own twists (live mashups and/or FX) than you are doing well.

Even that Tonetable iPod App doesn't have auto sync.

-1000000000000000000000000000

WTF

+1

lets have this feature, its well overdue

what about an extra plug-in for some extra money? :)
i don't need or even want auto sync. but if it was good working and for a reasonable price i think i would get at - or at least think about it.
i tried this on ni tsp and it's somehow cool to have it.

-1... Just add more wanna be DJ's to the market.

yawn

decimal bpm!

I VDJ and I absolutely do not need (or want) a "sync" function.

Just saying.

check out my post about decimal bpms instead

but we dont need a sync button if u are having problems moving the pitch slider until the numbers on the screen match up theres a serious problem -1 +1. the thing that makes serato a professional respected program is because theres NO sync button so u still need skill. but if serato makes it optional i wouldnt have a problems but g-d forbid they have a beatmatching feature every person on earth is gonna become a dj and the dj culture would be ruined.

i agreee....it took me years of practice to finess the art of mixing...scrating ect.. any button pressing is cheating...if your gonna do that u should become a human juke box not a dj...... but if i wanted to press a buton i wud want the kind of buttons for is sound effects like echo...of flanger....so guys pls dont call urselfs djs call urselfs button pushers.. so at the end of the day fuc sync".....heheheheh

...same here and I absolutely agree, if you're proper (V)DJ, you don't need an "auto sync" option, if not, learn how to mix before you even start to call your self a (V)DJ...

jesus christ, this must be the influx of traktor users coming over to ssl after seeing v2.

SSL WILL NEVER HAVE SYNC. IF YOU WANT SYNC USE ITCH.

Sure, add it. I'd rarely ever use it.

I find I can corner the funk in a track with my hands better than a piece of software can calculate its location. I rarely ever glance at the beatmatch graph, and when I do its just out of curiosity to see how accurate the software is.

There will always be those tracks where it never works, I'll just miss being forced to manually speed up the record with your fingers while in the cross just to get it into the mix, that is, when your actual pitch sliders can't get you there quick enough. I always get a good kick outta that :P

Do you think ... people stopped oil paintin when acrylics were introduced... All the oil painters crying about how fast acrylics dry in relation to oils. Guess what? the artist is who translates his creativeness regardless of which tools he uses. And the artist who whine about it .. have low self esteem .
en.wikipedia.org

So take a deep breath and let the future take its natural course and just get back to business.

But those people thinking of buying auto-sync programs are a section of the market that Serato will also want to pull in.

I'd like the feature to exist, so long as it could be turned on or off.

At least there is now a need for a time signature to be recognised, but mainly for the forthcoming effects panel. If you're midi controlling effects from the computer then your controller needs to know the output tempo at all times for them to accurately 'snap' to your music. A tremolo running at 200bpm when your track's running at 140bpm isn't exactly controlled, so that needs to be aligned with some kind of time-recognition.

no to auto stink. it will cheapen the product. people step up to serato when they wanna become a better dj. let that fraction go. who cares about them.. they will learn and come to serato eventually... when they become a real dj.

I doubt HIGHLY that any respectable DJ...or anyone who wants to BECOME a DJ, has turned away from buying SSL for NOT having Autostink

NO TO AUTOSTINK!!

You proved my point. If you want to paint with Oils (SSL) use it
if you want another medium (enter other brand here_______) then go right ahead!

I'm an artist who uses SSL
you want Autostink? Use a different medium.

A lot of clueless business people in here.

Serato already has a program for the section of the market that wants Auto-Sync. Here's the link ---> serato.com

Scratchlive already has what it needs to align effects, it does it with the auto loop.

NO TO SYNC!

Auto loop only works for those tracks with a recognised bpm though. Most of my library is AIFF and SL doesn't assign bpm to these, thus no autoloop. It needs a better time signature interior to the program for sure. Or at least the ability to fully scan all file types.

so according to a lot of peoples logic on here richie hawtin isnt a real dj because he uses auto sync ?

I know who id rather hear doing a set and guess what ? its not you

Tap then.

That doesn't work.

What do you mean it doesn't work?
I've got loads of AIFF & WAV files in my library, TAP works just fine..

It doesn't associate the bpm. I mean exactly what I said.

fuck richie hawtin.. i would rather spin next to dj am.. splice... vice.. or any of them then some moron who gets paid to push buttons and move sliders up n down and act like he did something cool.and try and get a reaction from a crowd. yay. ask me if i give a fuck. i dont.i respect a dj who doesnt use that shit.. anyone can flange...echo... and reverb a track...wheres the talent in that ?

So you think that Autosync makes him the DJ he is?
Or even improves upon the type of DJ he's become?
I don't care if you'd rather hear his set or hug his nuts.

I have AUTOSYNC...It's in my head.

Wake up, kid. Practice

Ive been Djing since 1984, kid.

Someone's a little grumpy. Did Autosync sleep with your mom or something?

awwww look who decided to join the big boys club.

Lmao you consider this the big boy's club? You're writing sentences with 24 periods in between brain lapses and whining like a 12 year old who doesn't have the coolest toy on the playground anymore.

Serato + Sync will change nothing. Button pushers exist regardless. Duh?

listen, dont be mad that ur still using virtual dj. good night.

Don't forget to take a bow.

Funny, The best arguement you can come up with in favor of autostink is that another DJ uses it. So go jock him some more. It won't change my mind about that feature.

I couldn't care less WHEN you started DJing. It's apparent you should quit considering the fact that to you need Autostink to do the job for you. Search how many times this feature has been discussed, I've always reacted the same way. I didn't mean to hurt you or your girlfriend's feelings.

I consider it WEAK that you want that function.

Fantastic argument, though its not apparent who you're arguing against.

I never said I had years on you guys, it's quite the contrary, I'm sure you all could drop me in seconds flat. I'm not that seasoned.

I also never said I'd be using it. I'm not against it, so I'm not making a big stinkface about it. It puzzles me to think that you guys equate your pride with the existence of a tiny little button that only functions 80% of the time.

I consider that insecure, if you wanna get into definitions.

dont forget to take a bow

? I thought you were the one who said good night.

Nevermind, this is just getting confusing.

they say nerds make the best djs.

don't care either way but ^lol

Same here but I don't want "Auto-Stink". I see too many people using other DJing software without TTs or CDJs and I see them using auto-sync. That's so lame.

JEM 357... I'm curious as to why you want this feature. If SSL had auto-beat-sync would you still use TTs or CDJs.

i know several djs that been djing for 10+ years that still cant match beats..

Lads your all completely right, i mean who wants to go to a club and see some shit DJ playing on Virtual DJ hitting the Sync button just isnt professional. you look at all these videos on youtube of people djing on Virtual DJ their shocking, Back in the days when it was just Vinyl their was an art, no visual aids, no nothing! now any tom dick and harry can beat match. BUT IT DOESNT MEEN THEY CAN MIX?

Software like Virtual DJ says its going to mix for you with the Automix feature but lets be honest, it sounds awful. DJS who come to a party armed with their Virtual DJ, selection of Now 50 Tracks, and his Numark CD Mix are quite franctly noobs!

Back in the day when it was just Vinyl DJS would have been bang against the idea of VDJ.. most people think its ruined now at the fact a computer is involved.

So i ask you this, even if a dj can beat match, does it meen their a DJ or can mix NO, you can hand someone 2 CDJS that are perfectly beat matched and they be like WTF DO I.

I think in all fairness the concept aint all that bad i mean, dont like it dont use it? i came to Serato because its more stable, more professional. and not some tom dick and harry can download a cracked version and think their a DJ.

or even still why not measure the bpms a bit more, eg like 125.42 rather than just 125, we all no that u can perfectly beatmatch but then itl slip away from you.

Whether you like it or not, concider it dont meen you have to use it right?

- 10000000000 If Serato ever gets a sync button I will sell my equipment and start playing an instrument instead.

Hi Dj Unique, to be honest mate id NEVER USE AUTOSYNC, im not really a house merchant and i think they would benefit most. However i do think there should be an option for those who want take djing in that direction (many do).

Thats it really, ZESH! and HENRY GQ thanks for the entertainment !

Hey JEM 357, there is an serato does have an option those who want to take djing in that direction.... It's called ITCH ----> serato.com

/end thread

hahah. i bash the fuck out of a dj in my city for using virtual dj, and call them out on it all the time. i cost one a dj a gig so far, and plan on doin more damage if he continues to be a loser with auto sync.

last friday night i had some lame ass come up to me at my friday residence and ask me if i use virtual dj, i laughed and said people who use virtual dj are losers. he looked at me with disgust, and asked me what i knew(my name is the most popular in the city amongst djs/club-goers) i told his sorry ass my dj name and asked him if he ever mixed live on the radio or if he ever played 35 different nightclubs in the same city... or if hes been in the game for 18+ years, or if he ever made a remix... let alone an edit, of course he was like noooo, and then i said whats ur dj name ?.. he told me.. i googled it right in front of him.. and bam.. nothin came up, so i said.. lemme google my name.. needlesss to say he finished his drink and left the lounge. lame-o

my personal opinion.. fuck auto sync and fuck u for using it to make urself look better than ur not.

+1 lol Virtual DJ is shite, its made poorly, any cunt can beatmatch with it, but in all fairness, doesnt meen they can DJ.

I think the problem with "auto-sync" is that it waters down the DJ pool. We all know how "cool" is it to be a DJ these days, and it just gives all the rich kids with dreams of being the "rock-star DJ" an easy way into the job. And for those who say that "The best DJ's will always rise to the top" - that's bullshit. We all know that in any performance type job, it's not what you know, it's who you know.. and in my city, there are plenty of DJ's who have no right to be live in a bar because they will train-wreck at least 40% of their mixes, but they just so happened to be the bar-owners brother-in-law or whatever.

Many of us all had to learn how to beatmatch the hard way with our ears and it took us a lot of time and devotion to master it. I think we all get a little pissed off when we see some kid in a club with a pirated version of VDJ doing all the beatmatching for him. I am not saying there is anything wrong with VDJ or DJ's who use it... but I have noticed a STRONG correlation between shitty DJ's and VDJ... and I think it's because all the lazy half-assed DJ's gravitate towards software that does more work for them rather than putting in the time and effort. This is my problem with auto-sync.

However, as a DJ who has mastered beatmatching by ear, and would love to pull off some lightning quick mixes/samples/etc... an auto-sync button would be beneficial.

^^^ Fair point

furious george just made a statement i been racking my brain to spit out. very good!

It might be beneficial to some...but it's obviously CRUCIAL to others. the funny part is how they try to be sooo convincing, stating that their sales would improve SO MUCH if Serato implemented this feature.

silly rabbits

It's one function i will never want in this program.

vdj detects the beat wrong more often then it gets it right!

horrible program!

if you've mastered it, then you shouldn't need the sync button, right? or maybe you haven't mastered it as much as you'd like to think?

no auto sync

-1 :)

NO auto sync!!!!!!

don't take the fun away from djing.

I do most of my work from inside Ableton Live, but I thought it would be awesome to supplement my capabilities by routing through DJ software. I was looking into using Serato or Traktor to suppliment my use of Ableton Live. Traktor doesn't integrate well with Live (even if you set a shared MIDI clock there is drift which royally screws everything up). Serato does integrate well with live via Bridge, but of course we don't have the sync feature.

I am quite busy triggering stuff in ableton and I don't really want to spend time beat matching. I can, but doing so would stop me from using my other equipment.

For those of you who claim that adding a sync button would take all skill out of the picture, keep in mind that other software already offers this. Having a sync button in SSL won't suddenly allow terrible DJs to be faux awesome; they will still be bad. Good DJs will still be good. And DJs who want the feature so they can spend time working on other things (Running 3+ decks, triggering loops, cue points, controlling effect envelopes, adjusting sequencer bits with MAX/MSP with a monume, etc.)

Anyhow, I would buy into SSL if I could use a sync feature. As it stands, I'm a lost customer, because I want it to augment my use of Ableton, which I can perform just fine with already - I just want some added functionality.

If Traktor came out with a product similar to Bridge, I would pick it up tomorrow. I already have some other NI products (Massive, FM8).

i left serato a few months ago after beeing a user for 2+ years.

the reason that i switched to the "dark" side (traktor) is this:

Serato keeps neglecting the demand for a sync feature for us EDM DJ's so that leaves the market wide open for traktor. SL hardware is overprized in comparitian to NI hardware related to available features.

The bridge was a good idea but the beatgrid detection is not perfect, so you have to manually grid every track... (to time consuming).
@takeabow: NI has "Maschine " for this, but it is possible to sync ableton to traktor on the same device.

The SL4 is double the prize of the Audio 10 from NI and you can do half with it. SL4= (still no midi in/out, mic input/headphones output, no feedback for your LED's on third party midi controllers)

Two Usb ports on the new SL 4 is a plus if you are low on ports on your macbook and you don't have a usb hub (which cost about 15€). Or if you want to dj-battle which in my opinion is ment more for hip/hop dj's. This would be great for EDM if you could sync all your decks and use loops, bridge,... to constantly beeing in the mix, tweaking and creating something new.

I know all serato pure-ists over here don't want this because then your not a dj..
I also have no respect for people who just "mix" two track in sync without doing something special or original like 4 decks, semi live and efx.. It's all about your perception and feel of music, it's all about making your crowd dance.

I have friends who play hip hop and can do really cool tricks what i couldn do in like a million years and i'm dj'ing since i was 13 (32 now).. i just can't scratch. (or like real bad :D)

So i have mucho respect for people who can do this. But in EDM there are few who can and/or do that. I like to make long mixes (2-3min) or longer and try to tell a "story". It's just how that kinda music (or like how i feel it) needs to be played, each his own. But it would be great to use extra loops, live, efx, ect.. all in sync.

And not by a midi controller.. i always liked the feel of "vinyl" since the beginning so that's the only thing i wanna use to control my tracks. (so no itch or S4 for me)

So on my account serato lost a customer, so yes it costs them money. And i'm probbably not the only one.

But i wanna thank Rane & Serato for the good times i had on the SSL system! :)

No offense, but it looks like you clearly missed the purpose of two usb ports on an SL4.

It is funny how history repeats itself......remember from the 70s and 80s the 12 inch was king and then CDs cam along in the late 80s and 90s and the same arguments was started we would never leave the 12 inch record........then in the 21 st century history repeats it self and everybody who used cd and those who used vinyl all complained about laptop djs.

Now 10 years on the same can be said about auto sync and some of the top djs in the world much more respected than most of us here are using and not using ..... so for those of use who swore never to leave vinyl , cds or use auto sync what will we all be arguing over in 10 years time ........?????????

Serato will listen to all of us not just a select few and also it will look at what will make it money ..........

Now if serato were to implement auto sync are you seriously going to stop using it?

I think not ......

If Serato does not implement Auto sync and in 10 years time every dj is using it you lot will have left Serato behind just like we all did when we left vinyl then cds......

SERATO ARE IN THIS TO MAKE MONEY WAKE UP PEOPLE

P.S> as long as Auto sync can be turned off i have no problem..

Just my 2 cents Serato Rocks cant wait for SL4

I did the survey that serato asked us users to do. And it looked like Sync is coming. I started on vinyl and jumped into midi in around 2004. Im a hardcore Traktor user but SSL is really working for me. I dont mind the sync button, cuz the crap doesnt work 100%. I used it in traktor to get the bpms close and triggered it off and made fine adjustments manually. Bring the sync serato scratch live.

Heck did you guys see the Traktor Scratch Pro 2 Soft Sync? I see SSL doing something similar.

FYIs Serato already does auto sync

untracking. tired of this arguement.

Itch.

i use serato for two reasons: excellent support & community, stabillity & great workflow with good library management - these for me are the basic requirements for a professional product, traktor lacks in all these areas hence I use serato.

people keep bitching about auto sync not being present in SSL - perhaps serato marketting need to go into overdrive and really make people aware about the whole reason why ITCH was created!

here we go again..;-P

NO PLEASE DON'T ADD A SYNC! THATS WHY THEY CALL TRAKTOR NOOBS! Please!

If Serato gets a sync button im selling it. Sorry :/ Serato is the most fun to do without auto mixing!

otherwise the haters will just say" Your rubbish you use sync" :/

same blabla all the time...

If Serato Does implement auto Sync then when you sell your box what are you going to use....just wondering seems daft if you are happy with something and autosync can be turned off why not stick with it or is every one scared there street cred will go down. Anyway I LOVE SERATO will not be selling even if auto sync is put in i will just leave it off plus I am counting down the days to SL4

Well, heres what I have to say about auto sync. i guess i'd have to say i'm 50/50 on it, and the reason being is That i mostly do hiphop but during my sets i like to throw in rock songs in with the hiphop (e.g. led zeplins Kashmir with Rick ross's super high beat on top. Sounds awsome by the way too if you bring it in right) As most of us know, it's hard to keep the track with a live drummer in sync with anything since his timing in (slightly) off which can ruin a great sounding mix. The same goes for mixing 70s/80s funk music too. That would be my only reason for needing auto sync on SSL so i dont have to keep tapping the record everytime to keep the mix going when the drummer is slightly off beat.

same here if it gets sync im off!!! cdj 2000's and rekordbox for me

sync is for noobs...nuff said!

This is poor...

this is really funny to see people calling them self dj only cause they can beatmatch. If the only thing you are afraid is that people call you noob cause you don't beatmatch, you already are probably one :)
if you are turntablist, people don't care, other tricks are important.
if you mix EDM, you should probably start doing something on your skills, everybody is able to beatmatch.



ahaha, i love this way of thinking. why just don't use it ?
If people can't see you, they don't care if you are mixing with vinyl, cd, or on sync.
if they can, good for you, they will see you are doing something with your hand cause you are a real skilled dj.

I'm thinking the same way.
If someone calls himself a DJ just because he can beatmatch... that's really disturbing. I am one of those guys who only mixes one EDM track into another. Two decks. No sampler. Almost no effects. But I know that I'm still unique with my mixing style. My track selection. My sense for the crowd - just as any DJ should be.
I'm not saying that I'm the best - I would never do and I know that there are hundreds and thousands of DJs with much better skills. But I'm not defining myself as a DJ just because I'm able to match the beats.

If SL doesn't get autosync - I'm fine with it... because I can beatmatch.
If SL gets autosync anytime - I'll still be fine with it and will also use it... because I can mix.

For me it's the stability - the GUI - the policy - the support - the feel of SL... that makes me not switch. Not any particular function/feature. It's the whole package that is better than any other DVS on the market.
Has it issues? Definitely YES. Has it more issues than other DVS? Definitely NO.

;)

*runs and hides*

YOU JUST DON'T GET IT DO YOU !! it's not as simple as "just don't use it" as if serato were to get it, it instantly discredits the program to people who know what their looking at (people who matter).
it's like when people see others using vdj etc its looked down on. thats why serato is still king!!

You better :p

So what? Makes more money for Serato resulting in an even better DVS than SL already is. If you are really afraid that autosync makes a better DJ then you have a problem, sir. I know a lot of DJs who can't beatmatch and use autosync all the time. But they still suck. And hey, IF a DJ plays a much better set than me using autosync - then he deserves to be in the booth and I have to work on my own skills. It's just that simple.
And remember: Were talking about auto-/softsync. Not automix!

btw.
I'm wondering if people will look down on SL if it gets autosync.
Are they actually looking up because it's the only professional software lacking autosync? How weird is that?

i will look down on it.
I think that it is a GIMICK to attract less then professional DJs (or striving to be professional). It is not needed by any professional TURNTABLE using DJ. If you have a feature that overrides the turntable then what is the point of SL in the first place? If you are more concerned with OTHER things then why not use a software like (ITCH) that allows you to do those other things? Why are you sync dudes so bent on putting sync in SL when it ALREADY exists in plenty of other software including one from Serato?

AND, if you get Auto Sync - why not get Auto Mix as well? And why not an Auto Scratch? And why not an Auto Select? Why not AUTO EVERYTHING? Wouldnt that let you do all you OTHER things?

Firstly i do not want to use ITCH it is a not my bag .........it is a midi controlled software.
Serato is not just a professional Turntable dj you can use cdjs also.


you use the word GIMICK doe that mean that the SAMPLE DECKS and EFFECTS , THE BRIDGE and MIDI intergration are also GIMICKS maybe in your book they are but again you can turn them off and you are still using it.

I have watched many of the worlds top djs using these GIMICKS and getting paid for it and I am pretty sure they get paid much more than us .......lol

The use of Auto SYNC is used in a professional way very much like your effects , sample player , the bridge and midi control......... you dont use them all the time.

But please remember it is how the dj puts together his set and how the crowd reacts and 2 be honest 90% of the audience is waiting for the dj to take them on a journey they dont care what tools you use its how you use them to entertain them.....they are not leaving because Pete Tong is using auto sync or Five times DMC World Champion DJ Craze is doing the same or Richie Hawtin is using ableton....... they pay there money to see these people.

As long as Serato continues to implement any ideas that can be switched off because the user does not want to use it then great or ON because they do suits me.

I am still confused about people who worry about what others think when they walk past the dj box and see what the dj is using (you must be very paranoid ) .......you can be good at mixing but play all the wrong records i think most people look at a dancefloor to rate the dj............

I have DJ since 1986 so yes i can beatmatch and i have probably done it for longer than most of you ........ but i still love too embrace new technology to see if it suits my style

AKIEM i am wondering why you gave vinyl if all you want to do is mix vinyl.

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000ES FOR AUTOSYNC
What for SL4 if no autosync???
Times are changing . Remember the time when shotguns where invented and every big swordsman said that it will never have a chance AMONG THRU GENTLEMEN??? Well the swordsman have all died (most of them with a bullet between their eyes) and now everyone takes pride on how well they can
shoote with their gun :)) !!!!
. . . .
SOUNDS FAMILIAR????
P.S. SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH AND SPELLING

you can
and you can use internal and laptop buttons, or you could play all night from off line mode and a headphone jack... so?

or you can just play a mixed CD and pretend ---- so what?



ummm, where did I say those features are gimmicks?

I said Auto Sync is a gimmick - and it is. The only reason it would exist in SSL (outside of SP-6) is to attract costumers who find learning to mix to be too hard or take too long. Or as some type of marketing point to match up to other software.
en.wikipedia.org



I did not say anything about what the DJ looks like using whatever feature.



it would still be a gimmick - even if you can turn it off



wrong - again I said nothing about what you look like, matter of fact, I only use one turntable in the club and dont care what other DJs think about it. And I plan to add an iPad to my system in coming months.



Well you have about two years on me... which means that I am obviously not against 'new technology' since I switched to SSL back in 04.

yeah um, I cant figure out what that last sentence is supposed to mean there.






It sounds familiar as in anytime some one is against a feature people claim they are afraid of advancing technology (which is pretty stupid to say about anyone who switched from analog to digital in the last decade). Also its just a straw man argument, same as assuming I think various other features are gimmicks, or I am talking about what you look like using whatever feature.

en.wikipedia.org

My argument has nothing to do with:
a) advancing technology
b) other features
c) what you look like using it


As far as the SL4. The way I see it, there where lots of people arguing that they badly needed four dicks since they normally use four tables (even though Ive seen little evidence of it). But thats not why it was created.

Four channels is standard for club mixers - enter the TTM68. And with the 68 comes the box version SL4 which greatest purpose is the two usb ports so two DJs can use it simultaneously - ergo the four decks.

Now if you are going to be using all four decks (for any reason beyond the novelty) then I doubt highly that you are going to be running four actual songs. Instead you will probably be doing something like playing elements and loop tracks, acapellas and shit - not full mixed artist releases - but more like live production. In that case more then two or three tracks - of course they should be synced. BUT if you are doing 'live production' why the hell would you choose to limit yourself with four tracks? Isnt everyone going to demand more then four tracks? Why the hell would you limit yourself to only DJ type effects, isnt everyone going to demand daw type plug in effects? Obviously yes!

Just use the damn correct tool for the job in the first place!

The question is why try to turn Scratch Live into a multi track mixer? Why not just use Ableton in the first place?

If you want shit to sync together then you want a MULTITRACK not a VINYL EMULATOR.

Dumping everything possible into SL will be the death of it

C'mon Some of the best djs in the world use Traktor. Noone really cares wether you use autosync or not. Traktor has really stepped up their game a lot the last year and for some EDM djs Autosync is a main reason for chosing Traktor. I hate to see Serato loosing customers over this. It's a question wether you want Troktor or Serato pre installed in the clubs. Because thats what this is really about.
Traktor is cheaper, has been stable now for years, Has more features, good build quality and more versatile.
As long as the program is stable, affordale people want more fearures.

Would you pay more money for a old mobile phone with the only two features was texting and calls, or would you spend less money and get a Iphone 4?

Two thins are ceratin in this world. 1. Death 2. Serato will get autosync sooner or later.

so then why are you worried about SSL if Traktor does everything you want?



LOL - SL lacks features?
ok

I dont understand why people use CDJs and Auto Sync - what are you using the platter for if it syncs for you? Maybe CDJs look cool?

If you want all your tracks to automatically sync why not use Ableton?



and again
If you get Auto Sync - why not get Auto Mix as well? And why not an Auto Scratch? And why not an Auto Select? Why not AUTO EVERYTHING?

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000. there is talent in djing. With all this Auto rubbish "AutoSync". What would be the need to have a DJ? If you cant DJ dont.

At Akiem

I think you miss understand me I dont want to use auto sync. And this GIMICK you are not wanting in your words would be ok for the sample decks????

I do not want to use itch thanks if i did i would buy it i want to use cdjs which are as good as vinyl in my opinion and i feel comfortable with serato.

I never said that you thought the bridge , sample deck or effects were gimicks i was questioning your logic if you thought auto sync was a gimick then did that go for the rest of the features above ?

I was not questioning your issues about the djs using auto sync i was saying they were using the suitable tools that in their opion work for them very similar to your opinion to use only one deck cause it suits you.

So what if you and i think it is a gimick switching it off suits our needs.....?
It does not make the software any less useful to us ....... and thats why i mentioned being paranoid.........

So the question really is if auto sync is placed on the software and we can turn it off what would be your problem because in effect the software would be just the same.

And i was asking if you like vinyl so much and the feel of it why did you switch to serato as i bet you had people saying back then you were not a real dj as you had a laptop............

As i said before at the end of the 80s everybody frowned apon cds and the still happened then in the early 2000 laptop djs poped up and everyone frowned on them but you and i jumped ship.......now auto sync is here and history repeats itself i will meet you back here in 10 years time and we will argue about the next thing in djing.

As long as the software stay stable and the guys at serato keep up the great support they are welcome to try new things.........

This is just my opinion ........ and i will continue to use serato thanks.

The front page of this website used to say: ScratchLIVE does not DJ for you, it does not mix or blend for you (however it was worded)

2004 My reluctance to start using the computer to DJ was because from what I seen much of the software out there tried to DJ for you. I switched to SSL when I realized that it was a professional tool and not a toy for non-professionals.



The SP-6 is built like a multitrack device with some cue triggers. If it had "sync" from the beginning no one would have had a problem with it. The problem is with calling it "sync" and adding "sync" to the software. It should even be called "sync" when speaking of a multitrack device.



I am beginning to see that most of the people who want sync are CDJ users.

And I have to ask again - if you use sync to match BPMs then what do you even use the plater for?



no

however - I do feel that some of the effects in particular delay and reverb are gimmicks being 'pre fade' instead of 'post fade'. And even though it works - not having a dedicated output for the S-P6 is kinda gimmick. Also I feel the little beatmatch display is a bit of a gimmick as well.



ok



It is more about the general direction of the software then any one particular gimmick (even thought auto sync is maybe the biggest). I dont want to see SSL filled with gimmicks.

which again begs the question once again not answered: Do you think Auto-Mix, Auto-Select, Auto-Effects, and Auto-Everything, should be added???



see above



no one ever said that to me, and I use SSL because I like the feel of vinyl.



and again you are trying to cast my position as if I am against the progress of technology - which I am NOT - wtf

And an auto-sync feature is hardly comparable to the advent of CDJs, or DVS (lol) It not the next step.

The next step after DVS has actually been midi decks.




aight - so should they add an auto-mix, an auto-scratch, auto-effects, auto-song selection?

I think the last bit of your convo is extreme but I think serato are professional enough to realise that auto mix auto scratch are not requested.....But there maybe other things we do not like my point is that as long as the software is stable then they will still have a custom from me .

And again you assume that I want auto sync I do not want use this feature as I also do not use effects ..... I have sl3 so I have adedicated output for my sp6

I am not casting down your position I am wondering why you are so dead against it if it has no effect on you if it can be turned off and the value of the box stays high.

Remember Serato is in this to make money no money no development plus it is a unique position where it listens to the request of its users ... Or should we let this software company go to the wall just because we do t want them to develop features some users don't like .........

Listen I just think let them get on with it and to be honest I heard it will be another year yet first it is the bridge to be brought up to speed ....
Thanks for listening see you on the darkside

Actually there are requests for various other Auto type stuff.

And its pretty clear that if they put in a sync there will be the next big auto feature being requested. And it will be called 'advancing technology' and so on.



As I have explained - I do not want the tool I use to be filled with gimmicks and become a toy. It certainly would not be the first product to start out high quality and and end up being a shitty product, sometimes in order to sell more units.



I believe the people who developed the company have more reasons then making money. And even if not their strategy has been to provide an excellent professional tool instead of tossing in any gimmick like other companies.



Well I would not be surprised if it happens - disappointed yes. But this might just be the place where a line is drawn and people who demand sync are forced to use The Bridge, ITCH, or maybe the SP6 as it should be.

In my opinion , if you speak about internal mode SYNC and CROSSFADER must be there.
Why Traktor use this options ?
I use serato but sometime (depends of the parties) i use a vocal mixer without crossfader. If i buyed this hardware maybe io want to use that for Dynacord- vocal mixer , but the software not offer a completely solution.
Why you do in this case ?


Sorry for my English ..))

use Traktor

Why is this un professional to have sync ?
30k / gigs dj are using sync, is it still un professional ?
if you use it just to play 2 songs, i think you are lazy.
i used to play techno using 3 decks, it was fun, pretty hard to keep it right.
Now i want to play 4, 5, 6 sounds at the same time. i can't do it without sync.
I can use ableton but it means i have to prepare all my stuff, so i will only be able to play the same thing. As a resident dj, i have to always come with new stuff and listen to what people want. i can't prepare one live act and stick to it.

People wants it, so it will come.
And as usual, with great quality, cause that's why we stick with ssl.

Race car with automatic
Ten speed with training wheels
Phone with giant buttons
9 year old in a baby walker
Auto tune
Rented tuxedo
Belt Drive



yes



why not 7 or 8 or 20?



use The Bridge

You cant play a track in Ableton without preparing it in advance? That sounds like a feature suggestion for Ableton.



or people will realize Serato offeres Auto Sync in ITCH where it belongs. And if they want to do multi tracking it make more sense to use a multi track in the first place instead of trying to turn a VINYL EMULATOR into a multi track

yopyop - maybe you will answer - so should they add an auto-mix, an auto-scratch, auto-effects, auto-song selection, since people want it?

I have a 200hp car with auto/semi auto. i missed non auto to play on mountain road, but it's still fun with semi auto and the rest of time, 99% of time, i happy to don't have to manage cause it's useless.


so a guy like richie hawtin is non professional ? he is playing 3 decks all the time, creating something you can't do if you have to manage the beatmatch.




you can't put 7 sounds together without preparing it, in that case, you should use ableton.



it would have been 3 years ago, now it's not anymore, tracks got beatgrid due to the bridge, they are too close to it to don't do it.




as long it doesn't turn the whole thing into an unstable shitty software ressource whore, i don't care.
if computer can do better than you, why should you be paid ?
is a computer can do better than mind creativity ? i don't think so.
is beatmatch is creativity ? i don't think so.

Ssl was only a vinyl emulator, they drop it when they add sp-6 and effects. They did that cause they would loose customers to Traktor.
Traktor made a great move with adding sampler, which is a copy of sp-6. But with sync it has just buried sp-6.

You can't use itch with sl interface. i don't want a big controller which include a mixer.

Pardon me, I did not know you were a professional driver.






I like how you change my criticism of a FEATURE calling it unprofessional to a PERSON making it seam like I am saying something about any person who uses the feature.





what about 6?




So they should put EVERYTHING in that they can if they maintain stability?

So if it mixed for you, scratched for you, applied effects for you, selected songs for you - downloaded songs for you - that would be fine?

i'm professional driver as your are debating feature with good argument.



So a dj who using it may be professional, but the feature it self, is not ?



2-3 songs, 3 samples/loops, you can do it, but it think it would me my limit playing something i didn't worked on it.
sp-6 allows you to use 6 samples/loops, + 2 decks, it gives us 8 devices. i don't say i need them, but they are already present. Without sync on it, sp-6 is useless if you want more than just launching horn sound or some short vocal.
Once you made sync on sp-6, why not add it to main decks ?



I think that when you mix, you have to add your own things to the mix to make it different. That's why you are paid.
Be able to beatmatch is not one of this thing. Today, to make a good session, you have to be creative. No one care anymore if it's beatmatched, it must be. So you need time to do other thing and beatmatching is time loosing.

About the others features:
- i don't think a computer can do better than a real skilled dj
- i really don't care. if ssl can do better scratch than you, shame on you. It easy to blame the software.

"hey serato guys, don't add this feature, cause all wanabe dj will be able to do same things that i do". isn't it weird ?

To people which say, if you are not happy, go for traktor. Don't say it to loud, people would listen to you. Less serato = less money = less dev = less update/feature add.
If you don't want new feature, stop to upgrade and put a big sticker on your comp "I'm using SSL < 2.2, i dont have auto sync"

Btw why your position would be better than people asking for new things ?

aka - you dont know what you are talking about? :)



exactly




I have already said the tracks in the sampler should be locked together.
Its not what I am talking about

go back and read the first post in this thread



that sounds nice but your view is pretty limited because there are plenty of non-creative DJ making plenty of money - some can hardly even blend




- since computers can record a DJs movements - then they can do it equally as well
- since computers are faster and more accurate - then they can do it better



hey Serato, thanks for making a professional tool for me to use instead of a toy for unskilled amateurs



like I already said auto-sync is a gimmick, I can say it some more if you like?

So by your logic Serato should add ANYTHING that keeps as many people using it regardless of of anything else? Serato should add ANYTHING someone might use? If a guy wants it to make mix tape cover - add it? If a guy wants it to make phone calls - add it? If a guy wants it to be a web browser - add it?

dftt

aka - your argument are so pertinent ;)





When you have beatgrid, auto sync on sp-6, it is stupid to don't add it to main decks.

I know djs using vinyl for main decks and auto sync on decks 3-4 on traktor, so it keep people, who thinks they know something about mixing, thinking they are a real dj.

I dropped vinyl cause it was a source of problem, not every club has technics in good state, non boost, with good needle and good isolation.
Today with cdj, you can't get a perfect mix, even after 2-3 min max you have to correct it. And i don't want to do that adjust cause it's useless for me.

It took me lot of time to learn to beatmatch, and i think every dj should learn with turntables. that's the first thing every dj should be able to do.
But now for me, it's just something that is boring and errors introducer.
So i'm asking serato team to add it, cause they already did 80% of the job by adding beatgrid.


one more time please :)



When a large amount of user ask for a feature, serato team (should) thinks about it. And i think they do, that's why i'm still using ssl.

Thanks!




They are not the same - The two decks are controlled by real decks, SP-6 is not.

SP-6 is built like, and has all the controls of a multitrack - so yes, it makes sense for it to operate like one. And I would not even call it 'auto-sync' because they arnt decks. It would be matching bpms and NOT overriding any real decks.




So then why use SSL instead of something that already has auto-sync?

And again this brings me to the question I always have: why use CDJs at all?

Example:
Deck one is at 123.68 BPM
You load a new track in deck two 121.43 BPM
Auto-Sync automatically pitches the new track up to 123.68
You tap the start button until the track is running where you want
You move the cross fader to mix.
and repeat

Now do you ever touch the platter? All you are doing on the CDJ is tapping the buttons - why even use a CDJ?

You think it really makes sense to load a SSL CD in the CDJ that gets overridden by a sync control?



auto-sync is a gimmick


Well of course they should think about it, as they obviously have. But that was not the question - should they add EVERYTHING a large contingent of people ask for. Because there is a large amount of requests for "internal" mixing. And an "Auto-Mode" that will play, and mix by itself. And we already have softwares that pick tracks - Im sure that plenty of people will want it to do that shit too----

Again - what I am getting at > where do you draw the line between a software that is a tool for your use, and a software that does the work for you?

Auto sync (imo) is a feature that does work for you. And if you have a feature that does work for you, why not have many features, as many as possible features that do the work for you?

Otherwise we will end up with a product that is no longer a tool for you to use but a product meant to replace what you do.


And again why not just use the software that is made to do this work for you instead of the software that is made for you to do the work?

Cause my need of auto-sync comes from few month ago and i use ssl for 4 years.
I like how ssl is build, how serato dev their software, correct their bug. it's closer to my view on software than NI is.



CDJ is just a controller for me, btw the best controller i tried in order to beatmatch.
In my case, i will not need them anymore if sync is implemented.
Why don't i go for itch ? cause i don't want to use a specific controller with internal mixer include.
I think we are not talking about the same way of mixing track, so we won't be able to agree.
SSL has been build as a vinyl emulator. Today it has a lot of other features. We will see in next month if Serato think they need sync on main decks.




They answered internal mixing by making itch.
Auto mode is not a professional feature - imo
If it's just sync two track and make a fade, that's not professional. If you use it to get more time on adding something else on the music, it is.

The line is when you find the guy you are paying is lazy.

The point on auto sync, is not that i'm lazy to make the beatmatch. it take me ~ 10 sec to do it. point is that i will always have to correct it cause with vinyl or cd, it can't be perfect. That's what i seek in auto sync.

I should have took time to read entire thread first, all my arguments has been already exposed and well described.

Right, so since using auto-sync pretty much eliminates the need for a controller (especially CDJ) what would be wrong with just using the SP6 if the tracks were linked? Because of effects? Ableton

You see what I am getting at - people who want the decks to sync are really after MULTITRACK type playing something much better done with an app like Ableton.

What benefit does SSL have over all these other softwares when it comes to "Live Production" or "Multi-Track Mixing" whatever you want to call it?

I swear people who want sync will not be satisfied until SSL is transformed into what Ableton already is. All Synced, Internal Mix, Plug-in Effects - this is what people want SSL to become instead of just using the correct software - Its even connected in the Bridge for heavens sake - so you can even look like you are on two decks.

Right.
but, ableton isn't a dj sofware, everything has to be prepared.
I've seen lot of people djing with ableton and it was pretty boring.
We want the flexibility of ssl and the power of ableton :)

Isnt that what The Bridge is, or a fault of Ableton?

Why not get Ableton working in a way that does not require this preparation? Isnt the boring part because the tracks are all synced?

And what about just using SP6 if the tracks were linked?

I mean the core function and main purpose of SSL is Vinyl Emulation. It is meant to work like two (or three turntables) not a Multi-Track app - what sense does it make trying to transform it into a multitrack machine?

I havnt used the bridge - but doesnt SSL create the grid on tracks needed to use them in Ableton?

Get Ableton to work easier instead of transforming SSL into what Ableton already is!

Ssl only miss sync to be a multi track djing apps.
Ableton is lack of huge things. You can't do a loop in ableton without preparing it for exemple.
In Ableton, you prepare your set, and you play it.
In Serato, you pick up your tracks and you play them.

Ableton is boring when use as a 2 decks apps playing what dude prepared.
Sp-6 is a sampler, you don't have all the control and infos.

Ssl created grid for the bridge and use this feature to make itch.

Before SSL got effects, i did setup audio routing via another soundcard to use ableton as effect box, i didn't made the move to full ableton cause i don't want to play a set prepared, i'm resident in a night club, i can't stick to a plan, i have to adjust to people.

Make a version of itch with sp-6, chained effects, and the bridge where you can use your sl-[134] box and your own controller, requests from most of EDM dj will vanish.
But this looks like SSL with sync.

well we will see what they do

I'm ok with it as long as I can disable the feature in the setting. Simply because I feel Serato is about to lose this war with Traktor if it doesn't give people what they want even though they have a superior product.

ah so the product should be made inferior if people request it.

in other words: it should be EXACTLY like Traktor?


concerning sync : Abletone is closer to what people (will) want if they want their tracks all synced together. Maybe they dont know it yet - but they will keep requesting features that already fucking exist on platforms designed to do what their ultimate goal actually is.

People choose SSL for reasons OTHER then it has all the features they want.

Ive seen requests for Ableton to load tracks from the library and so on - things that will move IT toward the LIVE software that people want and is supposed to be. Trying to turn SSL into that product is ass-backwards - its strength is in DVS - not fucking effects and triggering and mixing and so on let it be what it was DESIGNED to be - a replacement for record crates - this mission creep crap is just annoying

In case you aren't looking around the dj world is changing. I have love for Serato and would like to see them EVOLVE in order to stay competitive (which they have). People like you (and me for that matter) will not be making up the market share in x amount of years. Serato still has to be able to attract new users who want things you and I may not want to use.

Serato isn't a little baby that needs to be protected, it's software that should evolve with the times to keep in relevent.

SERATO the company should evolve and add new PLATFORMS when needed - If SSL is retired one day - I would be much happier then it being wildly bent into something that it was not originally designed for.

Well there is plenty of us who wouldn't want it to retire. So how about if it starts to get out of your comfort zone you just don't download the next version. Nobody is stopping you from sticking to the 1. series.

I would want it to retire if no one was using analog decks - what would the purpose of the software be? I would hope they retired it to focus on needed platforms.

What comfort zone are you talking about? I use beta versions live because I am so enthusiastic about new features. Not only would I never want to stick with any version (do search and peep how many feature suggestions I have made) I could not stick to any early version since I keep my laptop decently updated.

Notice once again that the newer platform is ITCH.
ITCH has the sync feature that you are asking for. I can sort of undertand people not wanting to use ITCH because they want to use their own mixer (even if the controller will be the mixer) but I REALLY dont understand people who want both auto-sync AND internal mixing - just USE ITCH!? why not. Too bad you have to buy a device - that is Seratos security system.

If I could choose my own midi device I would prob switch.

wow
serato.com
seems like a much more logical tact

@ AKIEM
There even is a (to be exact: one) device that can make you choose your preferred mixer: Numark V7.

But: Have you ever thought about the fact that there might be people who want to use autosync with good old Technics turntables. Just because it doesn't make any sense to YOU doesn't mean that it's not makin sense to hundreds or even thousands of other users.
Look at the competitors: Almost all of them offer autosync in their DVS. But none of them come even close to the quality of ScratchLive - and this is fact. And what about Traktor? The Kontrol S4 even allows to combine the controller with timecoded media. It doesn't make sense to me - but there is a huge amount of people who requested this.
And since I know what you're going to say now...
NO, I NEVER EVER WANT SCRATCHLIVE TO BE LIKE TRAKTOR SCRATCH!
I actually was having my hopes high for Traktor Scratch 2 - but I downloaded the demo and it still sucks big time (when compared to SL).

I think the best way will be to offer autosync as a extra-charged plug-in (like Serato has done with V-SL). And for the ones like you (the reeeeeaaaal DJ) it can make the GUI to look different - or there can be a blinking text across the screen that says "CHEATER"...

Are you OK with that, sir? :p

yes - If I was accustom to playing 45s and wanted to carry decks everyplace.
but thats a different subject



Yes I have. Only most people I have talked to about auto-sync are not 1200 users. Secondly they dont use the CDJ platter for anything but bpm matching. So sure thats not EVERYONE but it is plenty.



obviously - ist that the same with EVERYTHING? Music I have had to play at clubs lately has been extra shit-like - I can explain all the reasons why the artistry, quality, subject matter, technical issues, make it shit. But it matters not - obviously millions of people want to hear it.



are you saying this is a coincidence? me thinks not



ok



Honestly my criticism of 'auto-sync' has absolutely nothing to do with what other software does. The only reason I discuss other softwares is people ALWAYS point out that other companies do it. I dont care - If no other software did it - my opinion would be the same - it is a gimmick if added to a DVS system




Again you are arguing with me about points I have NEVER EVER made. I have never said anything about "real DJing" and I dont give a flying fiznuck about what equipment other DJs use or how they use it. I dont care if you look like you are reading emails all night with your head behind a laptop, or you choreograph movements over someone elses mix cd, or use an ipod and let drunk bitches run it - I dont care. And like I have already said - I do not believe that it is Serato's job to design software preventing any of that crap.

But I also dont think it is Serato's job to add features that aid such dumb shit. If ten thousand people request a feature that puts up the name mixtape tracks to fool people - I believe they should resist such stupid requests. I dont think auto sync is quite that stupid - but a gimmick none the less.

If when SSL dropped, it was full of automixing - autosyncing - dj inna box - iphone app type nonsense we would not even be having this discussion.

yes - this is my opinion - and its even changeable - but that would require someone coming up with a good reason for it to be added. Something more useful then what I have heard so far.

www.abload.de just sayin...

This is stupid. Serato pretty much has sync. Line up the lines, match the bpm's, press start.

@mayaku : photoshop or private beta ?
@thebuttonfreak : of course, it already easy to beatmatch with ssl, the matter is to have them perfectly synced, so you will not have to care of correcting something later in your mix. Make the test :

- take 2 tracks which have 2-3 bpm diff. beatmatch them
- make loops on both, tell me how much time they stay synced without making a move.
- move your tracks to sp-6 to check bpm, you will have something like 0,02-0,04 diff between tracks. It's small, but let the loops run long time and it will go wrong.

I would like the sync feature just like the softsync in traktor 2 for one reason and one reason only!
The Bridge!
Now I play my sets together with a friend who controls the Ableton part but it would definetely be very nice not having to worry about the beatmatching part so I could do both!

You really just can't nudge them every now and the to keep them on? It takes like no effort.

And I just tried it in internal mode. I set two tunes up, made as sandwich and came back and they were still dead on.

exactly - open a sandwich shop and save money by making the sandwiches AND djing yourself.

and when they ask what software you are using - you can proudly and impressively say Serato!

+1 and tobe honist if you turn sync off in traktor you cant mix if you dont know how but with scratchlive you just start at the waveform in vertical view. hit spacebar to get the view of the .0 of the bpm.

so is there really that much need for sync?

I've been DJing 10 years and it doesn't matter what anyone says.

A sync button would be handy and great for 1000s of reasons.

Just put one in and allow people to enable or disable it like the on board FX.

I guarantee there would be more people that buy Serato if there was a sync button.

Just do it Serato, people are clearly showing interest.

^ Serato already done it its called serato itch!

Oh yeah i'll just convince the club i'm a resident at to buy Itch abled products and ditch the CDJs because there so 2008.

And also...

It's BS if Serato think we're all going to go out and buy new kit for this functionality, when the competitors have already done it years ago.

Me neither...
Are you saying the quality of SL is related to the fact that it has no autosync?

But I see your points - I don't agree to some of them though. But I think you should stop calling it "gimmick" :)

Give it up. People will never learn that Serato is the COMPANY that makes the SOFTWARE ScratchLive.
I love if those guys say "I'm goin' to buy Serato" or "My friend uses Serato"...
It's so cute... I could punch them ;)

I wouldn't like to see a sync button as i think it would take even more of the skill needed to mix out of djing. As much as it would make things easier for DJ's, It would allow pretty much anyone with the money to buy the software an opportunity to DJ in clubs etc.

Ok. But we also know that newbies always want the cheapest stuff. So they will buy VirtualDJ, Mixvibes DVS oder Traktor Scratch anyway ;) jk

In a way yes. I think its the same company philosophy that makes SSL the higher quality product that resists the cry to add gimmicks like auto-sync.



Why - It fits the description.

"an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, especially one designed to attract attention or increase appeal."

"to equip or embellish with unnecessary features, especially in order to increase salability, acceptance, etc."

IMO that is a near perfect description. SSLs purpose, core function is overridden by this feature, to do something exceedingly simple - match two numbers.

If you cant look at the bpms on the decks and make one number match the other by sliding the fader - you have no business behind the turntables. And when it comes to internal mode....

And let me make this point once again in regards to - "but it would give me more time to focus on other things" This is the EXACT same argument used for why 'auto-mix' should be added. Auto-Mix will give you even more time since you wont have to move the cross-fader - it would do it for you! If Serato adds auto-sync, why shouldn't they also add auto-mix? There is no reason why not to if auto-sync where added.

So we end up with a software that just runs by itself (just like the competitors) - and why not? Thats REALLY what the masses of public want some shit without any toy label stigma but that will let them add """DJ""" to their stupid name OVERNIGHT. DJ inna box is the mentality that this crap appeals most to.

+1 for making it optional.

+1 for the option to sync.

+1 Yep for the happiness of everyone

----------------------------------1

NO

go buy Virtual Dj :)

+1 Charlee
@AKIEM preach brother. I am of the personal (and growingly popular) belief that crap like automix and autosync is giving what I typically call "hundred dolla dj's" all the tools they need to come through, have flawless mixes and under cut our prices. I do have to argue one thing with you, internal mode is INVALUABLE when playing on turntables.. and by turntables I dont mean a plastic cd player, I mean the Technics kind.... if I pop a needle, I can flip to internal, and have enough time to change one, or if I need to give a needle a quick wipe cause its picking up dust, or the one I deal with the most, need to clean a record. (I live in southern mississippi, its stupid ridiculous humid here, so I do that 3-4 times a night, and clean needles every few songs) thats an awesome feature. I can also say that the internal / auto mode... is effin awesome during happy hour.. Im not mixing for an empty room. I prefer to sit at the bar in my club and have a drink, listen to some nirvana tunes... and when people come in around 10, I get up, turn it off, and spin.

HOWEVER
- if SSL goes to AUTOMIX or SYNC then its Scratch Live will be same JOKE dj program as Virtual Dj and ITCH. If you cant use a tempo slider and match beats then freakin learn it or get a different hobby. Professional Dj's will do it themselves. How about letting us stand out from the wannabes. Personally, I would like an option that completely removes the waveforms... and I mean all together, preferably a single click thing like the other wave displays... honestly thats just cause Im an *** though... cause I would undoubtably go around turning off dj's waves, and see if they could still mix without em.

Kthanks.

@dvjflash
My point about internal mode, is just that it makes it even EASIER to match the BPM (no need to mess around with the oh so complicated pitch fader)

I always use INT for one deck action.
(nm)

oh... I've never tried mixing with internal... Its plugged into my ttm57 if Im gonna mix I'll use the 1200s ::shrug:: I use it for temporary stuff...

optional.. to play with my kontrol x1 in some occasion . b in fact o just need it to drag and drop some loops from player to the sampler and keep the loop synced while i am working in another layer (loop/accapela ) . unfortunatelly the tempo is not always 100% matched and i have to work on 3 decks. everytime. if i can sync 1 slayer sapmple deck with a master player 1 or 2 would be lovely.

no sync

again.. you dont want.. you don t use.

use what has it

Serato does have a feature for SYNC, it's called ITCH

True. I dont like how the Flanger effect on SSL sounds, so i just dont use it.

WARNING: Long response. options are never a bad thing. don't forget Serato is the company that natively syncs with the one program people on both sides of that software fence with the no sync preferred opinion despise the most. Kinda weird for me, djing with two decks two ears and a mixer seems much more "Live" to me than what I know now of "ableton live performance" given that there is much more room for error (this im firm on, if youre not beatmatching yourself and ableton or traktor is playing and you wreck it, youre unplugged and not booked again. most of these jokers just warp songs, put them in arrangement VIEW, go to a gig with a laptop and a korg nano to trigger effects and press play then Jesus pose for the loving crowd. And they, the crowd or promoters don't give a hot $h1+. Im not talking about artists that literally do live rmxs of their material with other songs peppered in to make a complete set. Personally why does anyone care anymore about sync? It's something most of us can do in under 5 seconds after pressing play anyway? Scratch and beat juggling djs would benefit the most from a bpm sync. They could flex their crazy skills even more so. What does a routine based beat juggle and scratch dj need to prove that he can hold a mix?
Admitidly I don't see the fun in djing with two+ decks and using sync. SSLs effects besides looping have been crap compaired to traktor anyway.
The promoters don't care, the crowd doesn't either. no, stop your internal dialog, if the dj packs the club and even if not they(of course this isn't absolute, I only book djs that use traditional set ups just BC that's what I have at the club and they're not jerking cables in the middle of a show.) as long as its sounding good they dont care, but again that is a generalization. None of my Opinions are stated as fact, just a point of view and a lot of experience.
Honestly Serato "scratch" really doesn't have much of a shelf life. Itch will way outlast scratch. Honestly, in a year or two when not one vinyl will be getting pressed do you really see new and old djs buying record players? And since there's no sync and cdjs can loop, why would anyone with a cdj use Scratch? More producers are doing prerecorded (layed out I guess) ableton live shows now BC it's easily accessible to them. They are in demand and need to play shows now. There's no making money in selling music. It's about performing. So all the new comers are seeing their fav hot new artist using traveling midi gear and a laptop. When I went out and saw djs for the first time I had no idea what they were doing. But I emulated them, hence starting out on vynil 17 year ago.
That experience adds perspective. I've heard the same about CDs cheating years ago, now I hear cDjs complaining about laptop djs. Each leap, vinyl to tape to cd to computer has added features and made something easier. l give a stand alone deck another year or so (not including the nitche audience it will acquire just like turntablists.) if any djs method is better get out and prove it. And that's not a challenge, I WANT you to.
Peace and music.

youre wrong

NO SYNC please, that feature is for those who cant or dont want to dj.
if you want sync, why dont you buy itch or other products.

Not sure who anyone is talking to but if you read my post I said I use decks w/ no software unless I'm doing a netcast.

I'm wrong? No. That is my opinion. I was hoping a for more intelligent post. Please read the whole thread and respond accordingly.

Your post is pretty difficult to respond to the way it structured. your opinion is wrong. First you start with the false premis that people who are aposed to auto-sync in SSL "despise" Ableton use. I dont.

And if your argument is - 'well its in Ableton, might as well be in SSL as well' - I do not agree. Mater of fact, since its in Ableton - why bother adding it to SSL as well?

Well? Wow. It's my opinion man, and that's yours, and possibly others that I'm "wrong". I don't get the hostility. All I wanted was to continue a good debate, not sling mud saying people are flat out wrong. There are no absolutes. I touched on features in every software set, and didn't hate on one, or any poster either.
I didn't say everyone, i implied alot of djs that complain about sync mostly talk crap about djs, not traktor. if I didn't come across that way to you there's your explaination.
Why bother adding a tempo sync? Scratching and beat juggling, just like I posted. They spin records that waiver like hell and the DMC stuff that craze and such are doing bc of that sync is insane. Way more technical routine than could ever be achieved othereise. Have fun ranting. Post away. This got stale quick. Much love and music

ableton djs ^^^

Anyway...

dude what hostility, what mud? you are reading way too much between the lines where nothing is written.

what Craze routine is insane because of sync?

This is a tired topic I agree. I have used both Serato and Traktor. I DJ in the New York area and I am not so much for or against it being there (as in available and on the screen) but I will tell you this........ most do. I know this is not a high school popularity contest but if you for one second think public opinion matters not in this industry...... you are sadly mistaken. I for one have never had the need for a auto sync and would never feel comfortable if anyone for even one second thought I was using it. I turn to Serato for many things but above all. I am about the stability and the support. Whitelabel.net is a perk but not at all necessary. I have three friends that use traktor and all they own is a midi controller and their laptop and they tell everyone they will be spinning her or there.> What are they spinning? The only thing that even rotates in their setup is maybe a hard drive. Needless to say every first time here or there is usually their last time here or there. I am glad auto sync has not been implemented and do say this, keep on keepin' on. Hopefully all who oppose (all 5% of them) will follow through with their threats and switch to traktor and join the lame train.

Ya, using your turntable as a midi controller instead of playing records with music is logical. Using a midi controller is not because you are not "spinning", even tough t is at this stage a universal word for djing.

and you can use an all midi setup and not use autostync.

Aw geez, just give the babies their bottles and lets move onto other ways to make SSL better. How about some better effects and improving upon the over computerized sounding flanger and phaser effect, or adding some new skins.

I'd like to see something like the new Smart Sync (only sets the BPM to the same value, not the beats and phase) that Traktor Scratch 2 offers now.
Shiftee, Craze, A-Trak, Rafik, ... they all use this feature and nobody forces you guys to use it. It's definitly super handy for quickmixing, live freestyle mashups and turntablism routines.

Don't be afraif kids, the bad synbutton will not make you loose your job, because we still have to select the right tracks and read the crowd.

+ 1

I wouldn't mind a Autosync or softsync button to be optional. Can come in handy in many situations. But I wouln't use it unless I was mixing more than 2 decks at a time.
I enjoy beatmatching and I don't mind if I have a little trainwreck every now and then.
I often play with the bridge when I practice at home. Although my mixes are spot on with ableton, its not nearly as fun to mix 2 decs with autosync.

I would rather see a autosync in the sampleplayer than on the decks. but wouldn't mind both. Autosync is a must if you want to layer loops

+10000000

Autosyncing the sampler only actually would prove useful and I would not feel as cheap utilizing such a feature. I just feel it has little to no place being an option on the main decks......... save that for traktor or itch IMO.

I say only expert djs qualify for a sync button. If you can't beatmatch, learn.. then use the sync. Stop acting like you are you are gods gift because of (your computer's) seamless mixes. It seems like beatmatching is not a skill needed anymore in todays age. Sync djs are so dependent on that damn sync. The sync is the lifesaver and without it these djs can't swim and drown which i find funny. Its not fair to the skilled dj that can beat match anything with his eyes closed. However, as DJing evolves a sync button WILL be common place in any and all professional dj softwares. That you can be sure of and Serato WILL have one in the near future. Its business not personal. Its just like going from vinyl to cd to software. DJs hated making those transitions, but its their livelyhood and passion so they have to follow the technology whether they like it of not. I'll stay sync-less for now...but as more and more djs go sync..I have to follow the technology.. reluctantly.

sync yes +100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

gives you more dynamic synchronization
single and ready to add optional!

It brings joy to my life knowing that no matter how much the lil ones ask daddy to implement sync into scratch live it will never happen. I hear Target and Toys R Us are carrying Ion and such hardware so you are all welcome to hit up Traktor and Virtual DJ. You too can be just like all the other 9 yr old wannabe DJ rippin it up on with autosync!!!

es absurdo ir en contra de la tecnologia, te vas con tu serato y otro con vdj te pasea en dinamica :(

I've owned Ableton Live Suite for years, and am far from "despising it".

I also think "add sync to Scratch Live" is the most wrong-headed and frankly stupid feature-request of all time (for reasons I've gone over many times in the past).

Parse that for a minute, and learn paragraphs.

:-)

i could really care less if they add sync or not. I mean every other comparable piece of software has

- 10000000000000

If you want a sync button use trator or virtual DJ

Bingo!!! It will not happen so hold breath and stomp you feet as much as you want........ "I dont care if everyone else has it your not getting it!!!" SAYS MOMMY No joke I saw a controller for VDJ and Traktor in Kohls........ a clothing store!!!! That is how exclusive laptop DJing has become!!

I wouldn't mind it, but definitely make it optional

+1

Why are people so emotional about sync?
I sometimes have the feeling that some people define DJing by matching the beats.
And I acutally know 2 DJs using SL that really suck big time. All the can do is beatmatching.

In fact I could teach a monkey to use auto sync.
And I could teach a monkey to match beats manually.
But I wouldn't even know how to teach him DJing.
That is what seperates the DJs from the crowd.

(haha... no I'm not saying the people in the crowd are monkeys)

Not sure how much teaching is involved with pushing a button. Beat matching on the other hand is a concept that not all people get. As a matter of fact it is the basis and difference between DJing and just being a human jukebox. Your feeling that people define Djing by matching the beats is not far off from reality. Just to let you in on a secret that is actually the foundation of it. As a matter of fact there are programs that "Auto DJ" (Mixmeister) and in fact that is all they do is beat match for you. I am not saying Traktor and itch are that lame but the only real dif. is that they execute a "perfect" beat match on a trigger as apposed to automatically.

I've seen a lot of dumb people able to beatmatch.
But this ones didn't understand music structure, so mix was bad.

Animals including monkeys can not be taught to beat match. Animals have natural and instinctual senses of various types of rhythm they use to perform various types of repetitive behavior. But they do not have a musical sense of rhythm. A monkey might copy human behavior by clapping when he hears music but he ca not clap 'on beat'. The best you can get a monkey to do is strap on a funny hat and crank a music box (or press a sync button)

You got me :p
But I know you somehow got my point, right? ;)

ahahaha +1 to Akiem )

I understand your point (only its wrong) :)

When companies add 'features' that even a monkey could use it might be good for increasing the number of potential costumers capable of using the product (meaning anyone) it might be good in the short term sales. But in the long run they will make their own core costumer base obsolete. What difference will there be between professional software and any old ipad app - how cool it looks?

The real question here is what can we teach computers to do, not monkeys.

These skills other then beat matching that DJs perform - can computers approximate them? I say they can - particularly where the population care less and less about any human performance and instead value song recognition or fame.

The real question here is not what you can teach a monkey to do - its what can we program a computer to do?

I am confused does this mean the computer is a monkey.........

I love Akiem he should be a politician he could sell snow to Eskimos ........

I could not care whether sync is implemented or not I understand that Rane and Serato need to make money because 1 they need to expand on there customer base to carry on maintaining such a great product......

I dont use any of the effects that are built into serato and i am happy to turn them off as long as has no effect on what i need serato for.

I liken Serato and Rane as companies very much like Apple ....... excellent products and priced high because they are well built and the software works well for the professional dj.

No matter what happens the world is moving forward and sometimes you can not please everyone.

I cant wait for 10 years time we will all be arguing over something else lol

Point taken. I just don't agree with it that's all. Guess who else doesn't agree with it?........... SERATO.
I held a little "seminar" if you will about two weeks ago where i had my Macbook running SSL and my PC laptop running traktor. I explained for 5 mins of tutorial time on Traktor to three different females (not sexist or anything just stating) in front of my guy friends (two of them run Traktor) and gave 15 mins. of explanation to the same three on SSL. I will give you the results of my little experiment but I am sure you already guessed it.
Upon first (maybe second to be perfectly honest) the girls where executing perfect mixes (I really mean perfect because to my surprise their music choice was on point as well) on traktor. The group then spent I'd say 45 mins. to an hr trying execute just one mix with SSL................ no success.
Now why was this possible you ask?? One word..... four letters SYNC. To all those laptop loopers out there "tearing it up" beware....... there are now three individuals just as qualified and talented as you thanks to me. It is safe to say luckily for me, MY job is safe.
In response to smokeyjoe............... I to look forward to 10 years from now but at the same time fear it due to the fact that if it gets much more automated and technological, the gear just may set itself up and learn to auto MC as well. You never know maybe it will even drive itself to the gig and we can all stay home downloading software that takes over other areas of our lives. I understand I am 100% exaggerating here and I am sounding like a "purist" but I am just trying to make a point.......... there is a need for talent and maybe just because we can do does not mean we should do.

Just my opinion.

auto SYNC is desired only by those who cant mix, it`s funny cause i see a lot of dj`s here who make perfect transitions using traktor, but when they use regular vinyl they cant. they claim it`s about creativity... what creativity? the one when u autosync and do what? play with EFX nobody notice

I 100% agree until you get up to the level where you are mixing four tracks at once.............. even though it defines just how good you are if you can do that without syncing them. To beat match four tracks is amazing............. to press the sync button is no harder than syncing two channels.......... just requires the pushing of two more buttons.

I'm just saying.
I think it's an improvement for the ones that can beat match already.
But I also agree that it would open the doors for hundreds of skill-free wannabe-DJs.

There is only one thing I want to make clear:
I couldn't care less about having any sync option in SL. If it was about auto sync for me I never would've chosen SL over Traktor. And there are other reasons for me not to go with Traktor too, of course.

I will stay with SL and choose it over any other solution as long there are turntables to play on.
But I also will get my ITCH controller within one month just to check out the possibilities of a portable, easy to setup, other to use, and also auto-sync powered solution.
The only thing I know is that I want to stress out the possiblities that are being offered while trying to keep it as enjoyable as it always was. And yes, I enjoy beat matching the classic but still exciting way with a pair of old fashioned Technics :)

@serkan. I actually picked up a VCI-300 MKII. I also recently sold a VCI-300 MKII LMAO. Ironically this was not because I didn't like it. It was because I would find myself relying on things just because they were there. I did not pick up the efx unit so maybe that would have deterred me from selling it but all I know is after a solid two weeks of using it. I realized I was not having any more fun with it that when I was playing with it at my bedside before going to sleep. It just took all the fun away. Lastly after two (maybe 3) weeks of using it solidly, upon going back to my real decks uhh yeah kind of got lazy and spoiled. It was that day I decided to sell my VCI. Actually traded it for a macbook pro to be honest.

I have a MacBook Pro :)
I'll come back at you after my first couple days with Twitch.

Oooooh the twitch does look both innovative and fun. You may not have the same issue I did as I know there are plenty of cool & creative features with that controller.

What does others do, ssl don't ?

- autosync
- better effects
- better keylock
- it's free (it's not really free, but it takes 5 min to get a copy on google).

What does serato do better ? (IMO)
- more stable, less ressources whore
- better files management
- lighter and more professional gui

In order to get ssl, you have to buy RANE hardware.

Do you really think wanabee djs will spend money on something when they can get for free else where ?
So what's the point on arguing that adding autosync will help wanabee dj ? They already have all they need to steal your job.
So stop telling this is a monkey thing to use auto-sync, if people can do the same thing as you just by hitting auto-sync, you have probably failed at being a good dj ;)

It's not (and illegal)...

...because: "In order to get TS you have to buy NI hardware"

Now I agree :)

Except for - thats not the point. The question is should the needs/wants of consumer/entry level/talentless persons dictate the features or the direction of PROFESSIONAL equipment?

I dont think so

Hybrid DJing is of great interest here. Would love to have four virtual decks in SSL controlled by timecode vinyl, all locked autosync to beatgrids. Just think of the possibilities. Those who don't want to think about the possibilities should just be able to turn the feature off, but to hold back those who do is just plain silly from a business sense on Serato's part because users will eventually stop being loyal, patiently waiting while the world passes by and seek out other programs that do offer such flexibility.

In other words, evolve or die.

you know why dogs lick themselves? yes, right cause they can. if you could im sure you would try to sometimes ^^

hope you understand it right. its not offensive, but everytime i hear people say something like you said i wish you would have to mix with some replica belt driven turntables for the rest of your life without any chance of getting some 1210ers.

LOL at people getting upset about autosync. Last time I checked, NONE of these programs (autosync or not) have the ability to program a set to a room. Programming is what separates the men from the boys, and in turn gets you hired over microwave wickwack wannabees.

Im not really sure how to not see the above as an attempt to be offensive. I dont see how to understand it any other way.

Also Im not sure why talking about professional equipment would cause you to say such a thing (if I were to guess I might be breaking the rules)

Have you ever heard of the Bridge?



Or maybe they will become disloyal because they do not appreciate the software being bloated with gimmicks and unprofessional features.



Case in point - Technics 1200s
Case in point #2 - Vinyl Records

They said they were dead 20 years ago.



Its only a metter of time before an 'Auto-Selection' feature with a feedback system and the cloud to draw from - Whats going to separate the men from the boys then? oh yeah 'evolve or die'

Human beings can not out evolve computers. Technology grows at like 50 generations to 1 human generation. And the advancement between generations is extreme compared to advances in human generations where evolution can not even be detected its moving so slow. moving so slow, vast numbers of people dont believe it even exists.

What are you going to say when a pc can make selections better then you can AND can auto-sync tracks?

This thread is like Marmite "you love it or hate it"

No one will win here pointless discussion.

There are programs such as Mixmeister that picks where to mix you selected songs and beat Auto syncs and executes the mix on its own. Basically all you do is pick the songs. That IMO is just too much.

- autosync - Yeah that's the largest issue with them.
- better effects - Most working DJ's use the mixer's effects.
- better keylock - What are you talking about?????
- it's free (it's not really free, but it takes 5 min to get a copy on google) - That's illegal and you lose many updating rights as well as technical support.............. as well as obtaining some new, cutting edge, viruses for your precious laptop.

NO SYNC BUTTON....... EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

haha - in the end the only decision the "dj" is going to make is typing in requests or letting drunk chicks do it themselves

Yes, the good thing about the sync button is that it works off of the analyzed BPM which is never perfect, so the men will always be separated from the boys (or drunk chicks)!!!

ha - its never going to be improved is it?

I hope not!!!!!!!!!

one way that will be overcome is the pc selecting songs that are known to work together

I will quit DJing/Producing if that happens.

But arguing with AKIEM is fun, so it will never end ;)



- Most of club is filled with Rodec mx180 mk3 around here, so it's better to doesn't count on club gear
- keylock in serato is shit, if you move pitch more than 3%, sound become to distord on low medium/high bass. Playing tracks at +10% and still sounding good is really nice.
- My point about free is just to say that 2 month djs will not jump into serato cause it has auto sync, they already have all they need.



Funny, they will go back to vinyl/cd ? I don't know a dj who played on DVS for long time and did come back to normal.

There are :
- purists who still play on real vinyl
- people who doesn't want to bother themself with computer/plugging dvs who still use cd. Some doesn't trust computer, some can't afford dvs, other are too dumb to use a computer.

Lately i've seen a lot of traktor users who came back from auto-sync to vinyl cause they wanted to feel more their mix.

Once you have like the taste of DVS, there is no coming back.
If you stay on SSL cause there is no auto-sync, you have missed why SSL is nice.



Have you try it ? Have you use it in club ?

ha - Im not suggesting people will leave DVS. I am suggesting they will leave Serato.




no - which is not the point (been saying that a lot)

Why use a DVS as a DAW???
Just use a DAW in the first place.

The whole point of DVS is that it is NOT synced so it can be controlled by an analog controller. If you want something that is synced then use something designed that way.

To be honest Itch 2.0 promises fully improved sync features as well as beatgrid improvements so but this does not benefit me being I traded my VCI. But I think to myself this "improvement" not only doesn't help me it could potentially hurt me by losing jobs to others out there who just don't care about keeping it real or whether they have any skill or not. You all know the dudes as they live in every city in America........ DJ Dell, DJ HP, Dj Macbook, etc.

@yopyop I never count on club gear and always use my own mixer which is a pioneer being here in New York, Florida, & probably America as a whole uses either pioneer or A&H as the standard. As for the key lock I've only really noticed a deterioration to the sound when temporarily going over 10% but not (typically) under that as long as the mp3 is 320. The Bridge is actually incredible in many ways. All you have to do is have a (registered) copy of Ableton and you're good to go. Still learning every day and combined with Ableton Traktor just can no longer be compared to Serato as they are in different ball games and kind of stresses the point that Traktor is really just a cool sounding DJ toy.

While I've got the attention of some DJ's who are obviously on the same page as me I would like to ask how much of a difference there is in going from my holy grail SL1 to SL2 or (money permitting) SL4. Hell while we're here SL3 for that matter. I would guess if you are answering this you would have gone from SL1 to whichever one you're at now. I know I can go elsewhere on youtube and even here @ serato.com for more info/comparisons but I like to get my info from people I can relate to/can rely on their opinions.

If they leave cause serato has auto-sync, they should have left earlier for some real motive.



Cause i don't want to get the restriction of a DAW, ssl or traktor are flexible, ableton live isn't.
Live is here to allow you to repeat something you have prepared at home/studio.



I get your point that DVS should just be control by analog but as i said before, get itch like ssl, working on RANE hw and external mixer and we will be a lot to stop asking for sync in ssl. But Itch is 1-2 years old ssl.

@deejdave : real club still need real dj.
About the bridge, yeah, this is really dope. But it's really time whore if you want to really change your set. It's really nice for people when djing is full time job and they don't play every week on the same place.
Sl-3 : 2 decks + sample/record your set or 3 decks but you loose the record thing.
I'm waiting new SSL version to know if i'm jumping into sl-4 to get 3 decks + record or moving to audio-10

Not every camels back is broken by the same straw.




Isnt that a flaw with Ableton Lives library system? If you could select songs in Ableton the way you can in SSL that would solve the flexibility problem, correct?

You want a Live DAW with a good selection system. Make more sense then trying to turn SSL into a DAW.



And SSL is even older and not DESIGNED with sync in mind - as a mater of fact a "feature" of SSL was that it "does not mix or sync for you" - this is the exact reason that it was adopted by turntables users in the first place.


often I find that at the heart of many of these type feature suggestions is really the fault of other type of applications. SSL exceles with certain features - like its library - but other apps lacking whats great about SSL is not a good reason to turn SSL into these other type of applications.

wtf?

sounds crazy to some, but I understand the sentiment. example: plenty of people would loose interest in basketball if the baskets were lowered to five foot, and getting rid of the travelling rule. Sure it might open the sport to all the short people who cant dribble...

And yes, people become interested in things for the challenge - take that challenge away and it become uninteresting.

And - just turn it off - would not be a solution. We dont DJ in a void, or stranded on an island, there is a culture here - what you do is in relation to what I do.

^^^true for everyone all the time? no - but still true.

2.3 out, still no sync, akiem you've won for now ;)

I have to work on my files management to not be stuck into ssl anymore.

WHERE is 2.3 out?

Never mind I found it. Finally Cue point tags. I am hoping the final release has more to be excited about. kind of blah but to no surprise no sync because Serato as stated time & time again IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!

Nothing will be added, it's public beta. They will only fix bug.

That.................. is depressing. No bugs thus far reported here. Toshiba Satellite L305-D with AMD TurionX2 64. 4gb ram 250GB HDD, Serato SL1. All the new fixes and additions benefit SL2-4 users only (w the exception of the cue point tags & maybe two others)

nah, I had some crashes and other bugs (macbook pro ttm57) I hope are fixed...

I will always be the winner - because they will never ad any sync nonsense.

Whats sad is that this controversy is probably what keeps it off the SP6 where it belongs (should have been there from the start, and not called 'sync')

My mission here is to educate folks about why it makes no sense - thus lessening the controversy - thus allowing it to be added to the SP6 without drama.

ARe you referring to syncing loops Akiem?

I am referring to the SP6 performing as a "mini multitrack player" because much else about it is designed that way (except the tracks arnt locked together like any other muli track)

But - if it were up to me (especially because of the Ableton redundancy) I would have designed it completely different. Its primary function would have been triggering one shots. Notice that we dont have any polyphony - meaning the samples from the same trigger cant over lap. If it were instead driven by the EFX engine (more like triggered delays) you would get that polyphony that most samplers have. SP6 is more like decks, instead of more like a real sample player.

Personally I think they should scrap it and make something better designed for hitting that air horn - and leave all the multitrack syncing stuff to Ableton.

Ahh, gotchya'. Not sure I totally, agree, but understand what you're after now.

yeah it just makes a million times more sense to have 'sound effects' type sampler then a 'phraze sampler' IMO.

The difference between a delay (or reverb or flange etc) and a sampler is not that great. A delay saves the sound in memory, and plays it back at set time. To make it a sample you just make it so the user can trigger when the sound plays back instead of a set time. There is not much else to it. The sampler should have been elegantly placed in the DJ-FX plug in - but now we have this cumbersome SP6 sitting there that I bet is 'under-used'.

One thing the SP-6 does right (technically wrong) is routing to both channels as a solution. But where this would be better used is with the DJ-FX again - rout those delays and reverbs to both channel so the x-fader doesnt cut them off. Ether that or leave those type effects off all together and focus on the 'insert' type effects that do belong there - JMO

OK, that I agree with (in that what the actual sampler should do), but I'm still a proponent for one (1) loop deck (just calling it that for sake of discussion here) per virtual deck that allows a loop from the virtual deck that it's associated with to be copied, synced to and maintain the pitch from which it was copied from. That way we gain simple, yet very valuable tool within SSL/Itch without the need/expense/weight of going full-blown Ableton + Bridge.

Think TSP2, but minimal (just one loop deck per virtual deck) and better (pitch maintained).

Sorry, let me re-word the function better:

one (1) loop deck (just calling it that for sake of discussion here) per virtual deck that allows a loop from the virtual deck that it's associated with to be copied, betamatched/SYNC and maintain the pitch/KEY from the virtual deck it was copied from.

Actually quite a good idea. Adding this would greatly benefit SSl users and could open huge creative doors.

I think so too.

But we have the SP6 instead. I would actually want more slots, like 3 a side. Load a loop and it automatically matches BPM - you might have to use midi to trigger it adjust the levels - keep it simple.

Now something like that would not cause problems like fuckin "auto-sync"

Real DJs use Auto-Sync. lol. As an option I don't mind though I doubt I'd use it. Takes the fun out of mixing for me and i trust my ears more than the computer to do the mixing.

There is no doubt that real DJ's use Auto-Sync. I just 100% appreciate the fact that the second one of my listeners or promoters ask and I say I use Serato there is no doubt in their minds that my mixes are that much more unique and effective. Sense of pride is way up when i DJ and there is someone right before me or after me who just stares at my hands (and not a laptop screen for once) with this great amazement in their eyes and yet they are getting paid as well. That is the definition of being schooled!!

Just a little excerpt I came across by Musicians Friend Website today............. (No I wasnt searching for it. It was e-mailed to me) This just goes to show that elsewhere it is known that sync features take out the most essential part of DJing.

"Tech Tip — Beat Matching: Find the Perfect Flow
Tech Tip

The day I brought my turntables home was a truly happy day. I had saved money the old-fashioned way, by stashing away a little cash every week in a cookie jar. And I couldn't have been more eager to set up my decks and get to work. I thought the hardest part was over; after all, DJing looks like such a breeze from down there on the dance floor. But the most essential skill of DJing is more difficult than it seems: beat matching."

Yup! Yup!

Iv only read the first two posts, I learned to mix 12 years ago, its a very very basic skill that new guys will pride themselves on being able to do, to me it simply takes up 10-15 seconds of my time to get a rough mix and it slows me down, in what I do I don't have the time to have a polished mix as I'm switching to or mixing 2bar breaks in seconds, its fine for a house DJ where they have 8 minutes to blend the next track, look, obviously there's a lot of other guys who are advanced past the point of "hey look at me I can mix" !!, so I think we should all band together and demand this feature not just suggest.
Being able to technicaly beat match does not demonstrate talent or creativity.

-1

Perhaps Serato could build in a qualifier function that verifies that the user knows how to beatmatch before unlocking the autosync feature.

if its so easy - you dont need a sync

I think the only reason Serato won't add this feature is because it will most likely turn off potential new customers who want to learn to beat match, Akiem it wasn't easy at first, it took months to learn but over the years it becomes natural and effortless, this isn't a I got more skills then you debate.

if its so easy - you dont need a sync

Huh? How so? It's not like the feature (if added) would be ON by default or not able to be tuned off. If anything I think not adding it will deter new AND old users (both seasoned and noobs) who wish to explore advanced possibilities that autosync would allow.

NI gets this and us attracting customers away from SSL in droves.

"is"

Damn no edit feature "/:;()$&@".,?!'

if its so easy - you dont need a sync

How does this take the fun away from djing? It's just another tool. Don't like it, then don't use it.

You might want to consider that the Auto Sync function can be used for using acapella's on the fly. You don't always have time to cue in limited window of opportunity ;)

its called skill

Yeah, damn all those so-called professional race car drivers who use computer-controled automatic or semi-automatic clutches and gearboxes. Phony drivers.

And professional airline pilots, NASA pilots and military fighter pilots who use computer-controled automatic flight and guidance systems. Damn no skill having fakes. Get rid of them all.

etc., etc., etc.


lol

I just saw a pro bass fisherman at the gas station with a auto fish finder on his boat and laughed at him. FAKER!

I wish I had taken Debate in collage, then I could give the greek names for all the argument tactics being deployed...

@ [O/][iii][O/], I could name another hundred skilled professions where someone uses some machine or computer to do some shit automatically. Your argument supposes that I said 'people who use auto-sync are completely unskilled in every single endeavor.' But thats not what I said is it?

Beat matching is a skill. Pressing an auto-sync button, or leaving it 'on' by default is NOT a fucking skill. And no, it does not matter how 'skilled' or 'unskilled' the dumb ass pressing the button is.

So when Dj.Fusion points out that you can use auto-sync to blend in an acapella (wow lol) then I am going to answer "its called skill" - because anyone with a little basic DJ skill can do the same shit manually.

So yes, the fact remains manually beatmatching takes some skill, pressing auto sync does not. Any heavy handed, clumsy, retarded, douchebag can press a fucking button. (not that Serato is supposed to prevent this - just saying)


Ive been mentoring a group of teenage kids, occasionally teaching some DJ skills. And it reminds me that yes, DJing takes some skill - what I do seemingly by instinct, second nature - takes some LEARNING. No one can just step up to a set of decks and make that shit work.

No, you said this.



And what I am saying (and some others) is that NO, it's not NEEDED, it's WANTED. Now why it's wanted varies from user to user, but some users who ARE SKILLED at manually beatmatching desire this feature so that it frees them up to explore and develop OTHER SKILLS.

BTW, I agree with 100% that DJs need to learn how to manually beatmatch. The tangible and intangible things that instills in DJs is not replaceable IMO and vitally important for all sorts of reasons.

yeah and after that I said:



then you posted your argument against.









The problem here is that there are two oposite arguments in favor of auto sync: a) beat matching is so easy to do - auto sync wont be adding or taking anything away AND b) you could do all kinds of cool shit with it!

lol, I know man. No easy answer here I'm afraid. That's why I half jokingly threw this out there.



20+ years on vinyl here, can keep three TTs inline just fine most the time (four gets a bit wonk) and am really wanting to explore the possibilities four TT all auto synced in SSL like the Traktor users are having fun with.

If you need a sync button then you need more practice.. simple!

+1,000 i see all these DJ's complaining about the damm sync button just like you said = How about using your headphones to sync the music yourself

Here's the two separate arguments, you have one group who haven't been doing this too long and there still perfecting beat matching that don't wont the auto function feature because it un-does everything they have been practising and pride them selves on being able to do.
Then you have the second group, the seasoned pro 5-10 years experience or the turntabilist who's developed and mastered every other aspect of the craft, to this group beat matching is a simple and basic bread n butter skill, if you wanna do complex routines on the fly that 10-15 seconds it takes to get a rough mix slows everything down, this group wants the auto feature to increase fluidity into there routines.

Here's n example why I want the auto-function, I want to instantly drop the chorus Onyx-Slam looped mixed with Champ by the Mo-hawks beak looped into the set, I cant cuz it still takes time to have a perfect blend even when you remember what the pitch settings are.

let me direct you to this thread then: serato.com

but really, why not just use Ableton? you get more than 4.




again, if Im not mistaken you can do this with Ableton or ITCH.

Why not just go to traktor. If you are having your computer do you mixes for you Why even have yout TT's at all at that point. At that point the only function they serve are over glorified play/cue buttons................. which Im sure you will end up using a Midi controller for anyways. The real reason one wants them at that point is for the looks. Everyone who does want the ease and ablility of your computer making binary calculations (what a real DJ would call beat matching) for them but no one wants to admit they are utilizing this feature. Yet they will 100% join in and blaspheme against "laptop DJ's" and how they take away from the DJing community. Yet the fact remains they hide behind the illusion of their TT's or CD players present and spinning. Why even bring headphones.................. what are you listening to? I mean isn't a slap in the face time after time when you push play and your track doesn't even start when u push it but when it see's as the correct point.

In the end only one enterprise's opinion and that is Serato's ..................... I for one trust them and am a committed customer for reasons such as these............ what are you doing here. It sounds to me like you belong in the realm of Traktor or Virtual DJ. I hear Kohl's is having a sale on the Ion controller which controls both of them................... Im not joking either.

Although I understand wanting to experiment with synced tracks and all types of shit, I have to agree with deejdave.

In might be cool in the short term, but in the end this auto type stuff OVERRIDES the analog control. Whats the reason for the decks then?

I laugh at DJs spending thousands on CDJs and the only thing they are being used for is pressing 'start'. Or maybe as a giant knob to match two bpm numbers, it makes no sense at all. And with auto-sync you wont even touch the wheels. You got a bug ass expensive 'start' button - wow

Bingo!!

Just My 5cents: I've been doing this since 1983. turntables to cd players to laptop!!! @ 1st me and my DJ frenz were like F__K laptop DJing, them guys aint real DJ's. but after i got my head out of my Azz and realized, if i don't progress with the times (technology) me/we/us DJ's will get left behind. going from carrying 4-5 milk crates of records around to every gig, then taking 3 different cd case's to every gig and now just my lappy :-) i ask myself & others why not make it easier ?

Scratch Live is built to control digital files with an analog controller (tt/cdj). If that is not the chief reason for using it there are other already functioning applications i.e. ITCH, Ableton, Traktor etc.

pic the right gear for the job

Ya I use itch with my Numark NS7 :-0

I don't have abelton, you cant physically controll mp 3's with abelton.

Why not just go with Traktor? I have (TSP2). I still use SSL too but would really like to go exclusively with one system and focus 100% on it vs. split between two. Been with Serato since day one and prefer to stay with them if possible. Like the streamlined GUI better, the enhanced covert art options, the stacked waveforms, and frankly I trust Serato as a company more than I do NI.

Regarding this: "Why even have yout TT's at all at that point. At that point the only function they serve are over glorified play/cue buttons................. which Im sure you will end up using a Midi controller for anyways. The real reason one wants them at that point is for the looks." Simple... I PLAY VINYL. Duh. Why the hell else would I lug two TTs around to every gig? Isn't that the point of using a DVS? The "V" stands for Vinyl. if I wasn't playing any vinyl I'd be using Itch. I'd say my sets still consist of about 50% vinyl, 50% digital. I own over 5,000 plates and still purchase dozens every month. In less something has drastically changed recently, last time I checked MIDI controllers don't play vinyl lol. DO NOT lump every DJ you see into what you've described Dave. You are assuming an awful lot. Not all of us who want autosync grids are what you think. If you actually READ the last paragraph statement you quoted you would know this.





See above Akiem. You guys are assuming every DJ who wants this is a fake, phony poser and you have a very limited view of how HYBRID DJing can open creative doors for seasoned DJs. But to answer you question "Whats the reason for the decks then?" Again, the reason for using TTs is to play VINYL (both real vinyl AND timecode). That's the beauty of a DVS. One type of deck that can play real vinyl AND control digital files with timecode vinyl. Geez. :facepalm:

Oh, and don't presume to tell me "In might be cool in the short term, but in the end this auto type stuff OVERRIDES the analog control". Just because you can't/won't take advantage of these types of features doesn't mean others can't/won't. Why don't you let US decide that for ourselves. Yeah, "Wow" is right. You guys have blinders on. "Why even have TTs" lol.

Let me direct you to this reply: serato.com



Ableton is way overkill for what we're wanting to do.

I agree with this and laugh too. Why? Because it's already a digital file. But you and Dave lumping in and drawing comparisons to all DJs who still use TTs is not correct. It's apples n' oranges. Like I said earlier, as far as I know the only device that plays a vinyl record is a vinyl turntable. Dig?

Maybe we have some misunderstanding about what Auto-Sync is? I know there are several ways it works but, I am pretty sure about one thing: It OVERRIDES any control from at least one deck. If you reach down and try to manipulate one(or more) decks there will be absolutely no reaction. You could take that deck and throw it across the room and it would not fuck with your 'mix'.

Hence the question: what are the turntables for?

To me its a valid question. And I get asked the same question occasionally when non-DJs see the laptop - they assume that the computer is doing the mixing - AND in the goddamn case of Auto-Sync they would not be that far off of the mark.

I suppose if you would leave it off most of the time and just use it occasionally or something but...

Again why not just use The Bridge? Overkill? Underuse it then. I routinely use Digital Performer (protools) to do simple edits on stereo tracks - the fact that I could record, mix and master an entire album with it doesnt stop me from editing a simple loop or whatever.

The ability to do what you are asking already exists in The Bridge and in ITCH where it belongs.

As little sense as it make to take a digital player, send a digital signal out, convert to analog, convert back to digital, in order to manipulate another digital file... It makes even LESS sense to have ANY controller sitting on front of you while the velocity of the file is being controlled (not by that deck) but from inside the laptop to begin with.

Akiem the auto sync function you are talking about is not that what i would like to see in Scratch Live. This would be something like a hard sync. I don't want or need this.
What i would like to see is a basic sync of the bpm of the new song to the last song.
Just throw a record in a deck, push sync the bpm and then mix with my ears and with the pitch as usual with turntables, the calculated bpm may be not 100% matching. But the starting point of beatmatching those two speeds is way closer and you can surely use the time for other skills oder more decks mixing.

I am tired/bored of the beatmatching thing which takes its 10-30 Seconds. I did it for the last 20 years ^^ But yes i would like still to use vinyl to spin as the feeling is best with my fingers directly on the records...

I hope you understand that point.

I understand that perfectly (when its stated). I would call that Auto-BPM-Matching-Offset or something "sync" implies that is happening over time (or the two things being synced run at the same speed unlike TTs). So yeah "soft-sync". Probably be less argument if it was stated.

But I still disagree for all types of reasons also already stated. If you have "soft-sync" why not "hard-sync"? Most of the same arguments for "soft-sync" can be used for "hard-sync" too.... Hey man, Ive been DJing for 20 years and I am fucking tired of having to ride the pitch when bpm matching is not enough - I could be doing so much other cool shit if the tracks stayed synced, not just initially... etc.

If you have soft-sync, I see no reason for not having hard-sync - its the same thing, just one is initial, the other is over time.

So yes again, the slippery slope argument - at the bottom of the hill everything is completely automated. Its up to Serato where to draw the line (if at all). To me this is the perfect place.

First off while beat matching straight up vinyl or ,aybe even CD players I can see it taking over 10 seconds but I see no reason why it should ever take 30 seconds while using Serato. I DO NOT lump every dj into tjis category at all. Remember I am against auto sync and for Serato. This would 100% back up the fact that I am for the use of turntables and CD players this as a matter of fact the only way I do things. That being said how could I possibly lump every DJ I truly fail to see why anyone would be so solid in their use of vinyl yet so pro autosync.

I also fail to see what you expect to happen if this is included. While using your Vinyls it still won't help you................... only while using the control vinyl and again if thats the case you lose the entire purpose of having the platter if it doesnt actually manipulate the track accordingly. Why not just use itch with two analog inputs, that way you can use your TT's as well as having your autopilot system.

Its hard for me to reconcile the supposed love for the turntable and wanting features that override its function.

SSL excellently allows us to use the turntable to play digital files. Plus a bunch of extra shit while maintaining that analog turntable control. BUT when you start adding features that REPLACE, and OVERRIDE the turntables functions - then there is no longer a need for the turntable in the first place.

Yes I understand some people dont want to replace ALL the features - but any argument for replacing one can be used in favor of replacing ANY. Might as well replace them ALL.

where should the line be drawn?

Akiem I'm not sure if you know this already but there is a hell of a lot more you can do with turntables other then beat matching, there's this crazy new fad there doing right now that's called cutting/scratching/ live looping/beat juggling/triggering sample's... the list is only limited by creativity.

Didn't mean to use the word fad

The beauty of no auto sync is that it leaves room for errors and it shows the dj is actually doing something, is mixing. U know when u hear a perfectly linear set, it gets boring... but when u have 2 tracks going and u need to correct them a little , those parts value more than a perfectly matched computer mix.
theese dvs systems already made the mixing too linear... with or without auto sync, is like taking the key ingredients of great food. every time i see a dj playing a set internal mode, people is bored, nothing happens, is all synced... but its obvious why people ask for it (yeah for creativity), and we can choose to use it or not, but in the end those who produce music will always have the edge.
Personally i wouldnt care so much if they introduce auto sync, the damage is already done and DJ-ing is more comercial and accessible than ever, but i hope Serato will try to keep it stable and PRO at least by not making us look like foools using their products with loads of automatism and cheap EFX that can cause crashes.

wow really? - never heard of any of that new fangled crazy stuff. I bet all that shit works supper good with a button overriding the bpm. I guess I never heard of any of it because I refuse to listen to any DJ using a sync button. Oh well. Gosh what am I missing out on!

well I hope Serato puts an 'Auto' in front of each one of those techniques so I can do them too!

oh I forgot to say - gtfooh

www.ostrichheadinsand.com

www.blogcdn.com

lol ;-)

AKIEM Awesome!!!! Two more contenders
Traktor - technicturntables.com

Virtual DJ - www.toystx.com

LOL

+1,000

I wouldn't mind having an auto sync button. I spin different genres of music and they don't always stay in the same beat range, say for example 120-125bpm, and short lengths such as 2-3mins songs. I also host the events and need to deal with performers, the door and other DJ schedules so anything that helps speed up my cues would help. Adding an instant BPM search when loading songs would also help. I've DJed for years and have carried Vinyl Records around too but making things easier is why I bought Serato. Heck, I'm starting to use my iPad and the DJay app since I can relax and join the party instead of just running it.

Thanks!

get ITCH then, problem solved

Read the thread before posting. ITCH sadly does not support vinyl timecode and many of us still spin real vinyl. The turntable is our controller.

and you want me to belive that an experienced dj that carried vinyl records for decades and wants to use IPAD and DJay apps wants to Relax and join the party while the Technics sl 1210 Mk2 stay synced and da vinyl is spinin? get real dude... and read before u post

I think if you want any sort of Auto Sync you go with Traktor. Traktor can do everything Serato SL can do and Auto Sync. I went with Traktor a few years ago, before Serato SL had the third and forth deck and effects.

Serato SL is amazing software and the difference between Traktor is the say no to auto sync attitude. It's a good thing IMO, it means that Serato SL can concentrate what it can do best Turntable control/CDJ control.

I haven't used the effects but would be interested to hear them compared to Traktor 2.

There's a lot of setup to be done in Traktor, but once you setup the tracks (Beatgrid) everything is really tight. I can use two turnables, but three and four is a real freakin art (I play house and techno). I like the new integration with Maschine and I'm hoping this will get pushed further in the future. I'm not a fan of the sample decks in Traktor especially the way the GUI is implemented if you have three decks and the fourth as a sample deck.

In the perfect world I'd like a mixture between the two.

*4 vertically stackable Decks
*Vinyl and CJD2000 & 900 HID control
*Midi controllers to control scratching
*Mixture of effects
*Auto Sync
*Ability to use other soundcards and digital mixers (inherent problems with multiple manufacturers


For my use Traktor is still closest to my needs, but saying that I hope Serato never implements Auto Sync for Scratch Live. It's great to be different

I don't carry vinyl anymore and I stopped using CDs. I just use my laptop. I'm intereted in a simple setup. I almost bought that portable iPod like mp3 DJ device, I forgot the name. I also wouldn't want to carry my Technics 1200s, aren't they discontinued?

And..if I want to put on a show then I would actually perform in a band as a guitar player, bass player, keyboard player or drummer.

I think the sync button should be an option in the setup page.

Oh...and thanks for the Traktor2 suggestion and I'll check out itch.

That blasphemous piece of crap is called a pacemaker by tonium. Maybe get i surgically installed into your skin.......... so you don't have to bring anything anymore. This is getting a little ridiculous........ I never thought I would cross paths with this type of talk. If you want tp put on a show............ that sends most people who are interested in the music we play here packin then yah maybe do the guitar hero thing.

Just a little side note........... your tonium pacemaker is discontinued as well. For a totally different reason than the 1200's.

"I like the new integration with Maschine ", is this with tractor?

Yeah you can now drag loops or whatever into the sample decks for use later, very cool if you don't want bring Maschine on the road. I'm hoping they'll exploit the features more in updates

Reading some of the posts in here from those who want to stop technological progress makes me wonder why they're on a computer and using the innerwebs at all rather than writing letters with a quill pen and sending them off via carrier pigeons to communicate.

The classic false argument.
lmao

You know what - Im going to develop "auto-sync" for SSL.

Ive been thinking about it and it can be done using Quartz Composer, the hardest part will be teaching it how to recognize wich deck its loaded into (Serato please more data points) but I think I just thought through a method for doing it that will work.

ha,ha,ah i like that +1

Problem is the premis is false. "auto-sync" is not new technology. Its older then SSL, and could have easily been a feature of SSL from day ONE. Its not evolution, advanced, new, cutting edge, any of that shit. ha - matching two numbers? wow!

Second 'new=better' is a psychological marketing tool that is not always true.

You're correct Akiem, it isn't new tech (which makes this all the more funny/painful), but would be new to SSL IF they woke up, realized a large portion of their user base desire it and implemented it ( not to mention possibly an even larger number of new/would be users to gain).

And you're correct again, "Wow!" is exactly right if we can have four decks all synced using timecode vinyl while being able to use the same TTs to drop real vinyl in/out of during sets. We want the WOW! That's why so many are vocally pushing for this from Serato (or moving away from it).

PS: Whoever said "new=better"? Of course that's not always true. Only an idiot would believe that. It has to have real world benefit and operate properly (among other things) to be better.

The only thing i'd see good from autosync being added is when you're mixing live music. As we all know live drummers dont have perfect timing and the bpm slightly changes during the song which can be frustrating and can ruin a potentially awsome mix. with live music, there's no way to get it perfectly beat matched and you'll constantly be nudging the platter. but other than that i dont see any other purpose for this feature.

Careful Robert - Don't let some of the others catch you thinking about crazy possibilities such as that.

BTW, you are talking about syncing WITH beatgrids (and yes, agree that the feature would be very good for non-quantized music - especially three or four tracks of it going simultaneously).

^^^ flexible beatgrids at that for aligning non-quantized tracks

Where did anyone one this forum say they were against the progress of technology (which this feature is not - quit pretending it is) or against Serato adding features to SSL? I am pretty sure most people here are in favor of SSL becoming 'better' - and just disagree about what constitutes 'better'.

You are just setting up a straw man to knock down. No one here is afraid of technology.

New to SSL? sure it would be, but thats not really what you said tho is it?

Back when I switched to SSL v1.3 the main reason was stability. But it would have also been a deal breaker for myself and many of the other DJs switching from vinyl if it had "done the work for you" When SSL was shown to me it was clearly stated "it does not DJ for you". If it had 'auto-sync' in it from the beginning and people where talking about "look how it can do xyz for you" then it would never have become the standard that it is. Most people adopt it now because it IS the standard - THATS why there are so many people asking for sync - they chose the standard instead of the application with the features they want. Earlier adopters chose it for certain reasons - absence of 'auto-sync' was definitely one of them.

ScratchLive cant be all things to all people. Thats obviously why Serato has developed other applications like ITCH that have the damn feature in it. Thats obviously why Serato joined forces with Ableton - so you can do the time stretch beatgrids since you cant mix live music - or you want shit synced - even more then 4 perfectly synced tracks AND still use the vinyl.

Whats really going on here is people are resistant to exploring the options that have the solutions they are looking for and instead want to stay in their little comfort zone and have the gimmicks pile up next to them where its safe.

ITCH has Auto-Sync - Ableton "fixes" live tracks for you - Ableton syncs tracks for you. The solutions are there.

You cant jam everything you can think of into a big crappy mess of an applications that does all types of unnecessary bullshit.

Curious Akiem, how do you feel about Instant Doubles? Isn't that a "gimmick" that does "unnecessary bullshit"? I mean back in the day we simply just bought and used two copies of the vinyl to accomplish the same thing. Easy, right? Well, If so, then doesn't that mean "if it's so easy - you dont need a Instant Double". Or how about Relative and Internal Modes? What about all the built-in goofy whizz bang special effects? Are those not mucking up the program? This list of features that infest the "a big crappy mess of an application" could go on and on.

Its time for

- classic mode binary (simple basic old school dvs, with a hardcoded special skin)

- extended mode binary (extended new features supported like soft sync, beat grids, internal mixer, blah blah blah...) also with an other hardcoded special skin, may be with a skin editor built in...

shouldn't be so hard to strip a binary down to the basics and separate all those who are whining about the or the other site of the medal.

damn should be "side" not "site" sorry ^^

co-sign

I don't really agree with the reason Serato becoming industry standard was the no auto sync feature. It was silly that it was the best version of virtual turntables on the market. Final Scratch was quite popular as well, i first used DJ Decks but the hassle of buying preamps, sound cards etc was too much and I just ended up with Serato. Serato moved to slow with the more than two decks so I went with Traktor.

I'm with Akiem, Serato can push ahead with Vrtual Turntables there's no real reason for auto sync in Serato. There's enough competition out there with the features you're asking for. They're alread in front of the game with HID on Pioneer CDJs

Sorry silly was to read simply

I dont think it was THE reason. But a contributing factor. It was stated in the literature as a selling point back then (and before ITCH).

The first person I seen rock it, was Revolution, I was opening for him and Maseo in Chicago. Revolution was snickering at my two soft crates of classics I had to check on the plane and lug to the sound check - he was like check out my backpack. He started going on about "Serato"... and how it was simply trading real vinyl for a timecode vinyl and not much else - NO it does not "DJ for you" as was an easy and popular misconception about "DJ software" at that point (as well as stability) - after seeing him rock the party, I knew exactly what my next purchase was going to be. I had also previously heard about it from Klever but he hadnt brought it out yet - and again "It doesnt DJ for you". Now obviously that was not a selling point for 'everyone' but the circle of DJs I was dealing with (not all turntablists) would never fuck with some software that did some shit for you - thats just the way it was. Mater of fact it were the CDJ users I knew who were more resistant because of the perceptions they were already dealing with. And now SSL is the standard. Might it have been based on other shit like 'stability' or the library alone, maybe - but I doubt it. DVS had it hard enough convincing vinyl lovers - if it fucking "DJd for you too" it was just not going to happen in the pro market. Maybe for the 'DJ in a box/ipod' people - but not working DJs - certainly not turntablists. Early adopters made it what it is.

[O/][iii][O/] I will get back to your other question (Im too busy designing auto-sync for kids actual whining for it)

I wen't to Ibiza last week. Got to see a whole lot of DJs playing awsome sets. I didn't se a single dj using Serato. Every dj either had Traktor or used standard Pio cdjs. Seems like most DJ's at the superclubs used traktor and synced 3 and 4 decs together.

Those who think Serato is industry standard has to jump out of the fishbowl they're living in. I feel like its only scratching yanks that uses Serato, and I'm one of the few that actually play Electronic music with Scratch live. Right now I feel that Scratch live with ITCH 2.0 features would be the ultimate dj software. I've tried to jump ship a few times, but always ended up coming back to Scratch live because of the simple setup and layout.
Scratch live to be able to syncing decks and sampleplayer with the same simplicity and workflow would be a beast, I don't understand why people are against this is beyond me.

word.

Sure 'instant doubles' is a gimmick, listen to its name. It also does something particularly well and that is to work like 'channel swop' in an emergency situation when only one deck is working. If I were to see a battle and one DJ kept pressing 'instant doubles' as a crutch I would call it cheating. If someone was using it swop channels in a club I would say "they know how to use the one deck technique."

But are the two gimmicks equal in these regards? I say 'no' ID doubles solves a different kind of problem that actually takes more skill and learning to achieve. I dont see any other problem that 'auto-sync' solves other then syncing the records for you. It does nothing like be helpful in a situation where deck is down missing.

I dont have a problem with for example using one deck to control for or six channels by 'targeted instant doubles' - select which deck or SP-6 channel gets the double - it would be dope.

So no I dont consider 'instant doubles' "unnecessary bullshit".

I think that INT mode is for more of a back-up emergency situation - but If thats what you use SSL for fine. And REL mode expands the boundaries of what can be done with the digital none linear situations. But its mostly like 'live editing'.

But here, I will list what I think are gimmicks in SSL:

1) The 'tempo match' display. It was there as long as I could remember. It doesnt really "do anything for you" except provide more information. (I would have left it off)

2) The effects. Actually only the 'post fader' ones that belong post fader. Delay, Reverb, Echo.

3) The SP-6 routing. Routing it through both channels is just not "pro" to me. Ether rout it out the computer or a separate channel - or too bad.

Auto Loop, Loop Roll, and such things - sure would have required some deft manipulation or not possible with real vinyl. But they could easily be achieved by pre-editing the tracks - in SSL they are more like 'Live Editing' controls. These features give you MORE things to do. But the equivalent for "auto-sync" would be pre-made mixes. Auto-Sync DOES SOMETHING FOR YOU.




[eyes rolling]

Do you know the world wide sales figures for both softwares? Thats not what standard means, and who cares?

Ive never heard anyone say Traktor is NOT a standard. There is more then one standard. If you are suggesting that Scratch Live is not *a* standard - you are mistaken.

U are right about IBIZA, almost all of them use Traktor, rarelly you see house-techno dj`s using Serato, i think the main reason is that the wow-flutter is BIG with Serato and is impossible to keep 2 tracks together for 2 minutes without riding the pitch quite often when using turntables. I am not shure, is this hapening aswell with Traktor (when using mk2, and not using auto sync) ??? To me is the biggest problem of Serato, because the bpm fluctuates much more compared to regular vinyl.

Em' there already is auto-sync in serato itch 2.0...why have my previous comments been removed?

Somehow I just knew some features would be justified while continuing to damn autosync as having no legitimate purpose.

This isn't about Itch, it's about SSL. While Itch does have autosync, it does not have timecode support. And while SSL has timecode support, it does not have autosync. What many users want is for one program to have all these features for hybrid style DJing (like Traktor provides, but we know Serato can do it better).

you knew I had different opinions about different features - wow ok

I never said Auto-Sync has no legitimate purpose - just not in SSL

Well we are discussing SSL aren't we?

Anyway, I don't see how you are able to justify Instant Doubles if a user uses it one way, but not autosync if a user uses in a way that expands creativity like... ahhhh, nevermind, we're never going to agree on this subject lol. No biggie, we do on plenty of others ;-)

Techno/house djs use traktor since long times. At our residency, we still use ssl cause when we started, traktor was not that stable.
I played on S4 this week end, it was fun.
Too bad that sync still not present in ssl cause ssl does most of common things better than tp.

I wonder what Auto-Sync users think about just playing pre-made mixes - especially if you are doing the same set.

A sync button on the sample decks wouldnt be too bad at all actually with the option of key lock on or off too. But actually being able to sync the virtual decks just for the sake of not wanting to beatmatch is not a good reason for it to be added. I was watching a few videos about serato on youtube and a lot of the comments came from VDJ and traktor users dissing serato because there wasnt a sync button for the decks. I gave them a piece of my mind on that too!

so what is a good reason NOT to add sync??

don't try mentioning newb djs that can't already beat match or a flood of wanna be djs jumping on the band wagon. that is not a good reason.

This question is answered all through this by myself and others. (not that most people for the feature will bother understanding the reasons)

I am a DJ who plays nothing but Electronic (House, Progressive, Electro, etc.) and I have no issue using SSL on a daily basis. I understand a lot of the the big boys are utilizing traktor..... but not all. The issue there is they are paid huge amounts of money and an error would be catastrophic. I am not sure if you notice but while they are moving their hands a lot but they are not doing all that much. Wit the exception of a few for the most part they are only mixing two tracks back & forth and its strictly a means of assuring there will be no issues for their listeners. When money comes into play a lot of things change...... that's (unfortunately) just the way it is. The point it is can be done and IS done every day all over the world. I will tell you this though. The real DJ's/producers with the real talent (you know the guys that will pick up a synthesizer or other instrument during a live set and the ones that really create music on the fly) will never use Traktor for reasons of originality and talent.

To each their own and every person uses dif tools for dif jobs but one thing will NEVER be argued. It takes a LOT more talent to be able to do all the things traktor users do while still practicing the most basic concept of beatmatching................ you know, that thing that practically defines DJing.

DJ A does this, DJ B does exact same mix, A uses Traktor, B uses Serato who (usually but not always) has more talent, or at least put more effort into that mix............. this oneas a no brainer.

Hum ?

Thats why I asked auto-sync dudes how they felt about just playing a mixtape. Especially big name dudes who are just playing sets - why not just play a pre-made mix - twist knobs all day on that?

Are you saying that there's no difference in using sync as playing a pre-recorded set on one CD?

To me there is, as a DJ you listen, look & feel the crowd, there responses to the music being played, etc. A build up is dropped when the dance floor is absolutely peaking. You obiusly can't time this with a pre-recorded set on CD. Timing is key to DJing.

Personally I don't really give a shit either way, but can understand people that have residencies and DJ as a full time job and are worried about Auto-sync DJs taken their spot. Even so this is normally a weak argument as well. DJing these days has more to do with how many Facebook friends slash people you can bring to a club anyway.

You can't stop technology, Serato will either adopt Sync and gain more customers or leave it and keep their hardcore users. As a business decision I think it will come down to who Serato surveys and has the biggest majority. It's good to be underground but doesn't always bring you the most money.

Basically Serato has now had to split their resources into Itch and Scratch Live, so they've either had to employ more people or spend less time on one product while they update the other one. Personally I would have merged SSL and Itch into the one product and keep costs down and probably (just a guess) gained more users by having Sync integrated into Serato scratch Live. 2.0 was there chance to do this, maybe they will with 3.0?

No - I'm asking why wouldn't you, why shouldn't you? If the computer is going to match bpms for you why not have it move the fader for you? Why not have it choose the next song for you? And why not play a pre made mix? I'm not saying they are the same, they are obviously different. But what's the difference? Why not take it further and have the computer do even more? Or just do a pre mix if it's the same set every night?



Sure - any decent club DJ does this. At the same time a lot of these touring DJ are pretty much playing sets. And when the crowd is large enough and they are there for your show (no one is jumping on stage to make a request) there is no 'reading the crowd' you just do your show.

The flip side is if you suck because you are normally the promoter, why not let the computer choose the next song for you and fade it in with auto fade - or just play a pre mix - if the situation is wack enough for you to be up there why does it really mater?

People who want an auto-fader will say 'yeah but you still have to match bpms and choose songs. People who want an auto-song-selector will say 'yeah but you still have to match bpms and fade'. And I hear no difference when people are asking for an auto-sync and point out how will still have to do xyz... Why not have the computer do those other things as well?



Exactly - but this type of shit is the reason.

People see a computer and assume that the computer is 'doing the work' They believe that just because they have a computer and a fb page they can fucking DJ too. Depending what software they choose, they are close to being right. And when they get the wrong software - they complain and cry about the software not doing the work for them.

Serato won the battle by getting us DJs to choose the pro gear absent these gimmicks that aid us in our job. But the war is being lost against the hoards of people who don't have any fucking skill, don't plan on getting any and simply want to turn the shit on and have it work. They want the computer to do the job for them - and that's what sync does.



Aiming for the broadest market is not always the smartest move. It's often what turns product to shit. And if your product is selling because it is shit you open a space for a solid upstart to take your core customers. And where your core goes the masses will follow. (ME) Or remember final snatch?



I think the split has more to do with the midi engine in ITCH vs the CS engine in SSL. And other contractual situations with Rane. (just my guess)

To me it would sound boring and stale, especially if you are playing the same set every night. I'm sure there are some international DJs that play the same set, but I guess for a local DJ you can't play the same set ever night as your punters would get bored very quickly. Saying that though what difference does it make if your playing the same set every night but mixing the BPMs manually, big deal it still going to be very lame.

There's no real argument against the computer doing even more except for the fact that I'm guessing it will sound very rigid and stale.

Moving the fader by the computer could work by setting cues points at various times and the fader would cross over, or the track would be faded down and the next one start. The computer choosing the next track for you would probably work by keying your tracks and the computer either selecting another track in the same key or moving up or down the harmonious key scale, or you pressing a button and moving up and down the scale.

This is probably not too far off of what you are talking about and I'm pretty sure a software company will make them available. Obviously not Serato and i'm guessing Traktor won't do it as well. I've personally got nothing against pre-planned sets, it's something most DJs have probably done since DJing started. Just in different variations and forms.

If you have a purely preplanned set with no real interaction on controllers in selecting the next track, moving the fader, choosing when the next track or what the next track is, efffect twiddling, Live Sampling, drum machines or live key work etc You may as well burn a CD and play that but I guarantee the audience won't put up with it.



I personally think there is a difference, but if you can make a pre-planned set sound different, interesting and creative and NEED TO BE THERE which is the difference to me, than all of the thing you mentioned don't really mean anything to me. Clubs in the future will be exactly as you described, sitting on a high horse about Auo-syncing (and I'm really not trying to offend you personally) isn't going to change that. When I go to a club these days it's normally to see a favorite producer, I don't really care what they use as long as the set is creative with some difference.

I'm pretty sure they'll be virtual tours in the future, it's probably already happening. I don't know, I think people need a bit of human connectivity, someone behind the decks.

The best show of last yea for me was the Ritchie Hawtin Plastikman gig in Melboure. Was the show pre-planned, sure it was but it kicked as over the other DJs playing vinyl and CDJs and mixing manually. Everything has to have a difference or people won't connect it with.



Serato is full of gimmicks, there's a virtual sticker, BPMs, FX, Sample Decks, Ableton the Bridge, the list goes on. I really don't think auto-sync is a big of a deal that you make it out to be. If auto-sync is the only thing that's keeping you apart from he non-auto sync DJs your day is probably done already. You need a point of difference to be successful. Syncing your decks is a skill and I think every Vinyl DJ needs to know how to do this, but if you're not a vinyl DJ what does it really matter?



I think Serato will be around for a very long time either way, if they implemented auto-sync and everything stayed the same for the vinyl die hards why would any one move to another product? There's no real point. Trakor as an example has just done it right this time around, there bugs and obvious things it could improve on. The only real reason I could see my self going back to Scratch Live was if there were more CDJ2000s in the clubs and I wanted full HID control of the decks. Other than that they both have their pros and cons.

If Serato had auto-sync implemented auto-syn tomorrw what program could offer you a better solution as it stands right now. Maybe Traktor, maybe Torq (haven't looked at Torq for a couple of years). There's not much else out there.



What do you mean by CS engine?

Exactly. :applause:

Cmon man, this is just name calling - who made this argument? No one.

so pretty much no good reason.



so true.

screw the purists. i was once one of those.
i can beat match. did it for years before ssl. i thought auto-sync was wack. i was one of those "might as well let it mix for you" types. i've moved on and opened my mind. the world isn't flat anymore. it's round. catch up with the times and the future or you will be left behind.
i so wish we could just go back to vinyl. but it is what it is. serato has created a shload of ass djs that can't even hear how shite they sound. many have never even beat matched. all they do is match lines. that is NOT matching beats. if you match lines you are one step away from sync.

they even make crap songs that speed up or slow down. i saw one that went from 120 to 128. wtf is that?!? it's called keylock then move your pitches 4%.
and segues, don't get me started on segues. they can't even spell it right.
what you can't mix from one song to another? are you that wack that you play 2 songs already mixed?!?

so for all you "no beat sync" purist types, stop playing transitions, stop playing segues, stop using keylock or stfu.
oh and quit analyzing your tracks to show bpms.
sync is just a tool, like many other aspects of ssl.
if you JUST use it or JUST play a mix you are wack and people will figure you out.
you will just be one of millions. you will fade out.

Djing is WAY MORE than adjusting a pitch to match speeds.





and btw there is a huge difference between sync and auto-mix.

who is being purist?

THATs an argument you can 'win'

but this isnt about being 'purist' - its about what direction THIS SPECIFIC SOFTWARE SHOULD TAKE.


I dont play transitions or mashups or segues, or use key lock or stare at BPMs...
On the other hand I do spin videos and use qtz that Ive programmed myself, and loop roll (which I suggested) and cue points and all types of shit - HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PURE.

I might even use ITCH if it does video and there is a controller I like better then 1200(doubts)

Again this is about what should go into, and the direction of this SPECIFIC SOFTWARE.

I know that there is going to be fully automated systems that do much more for you then we can even guess at right now. Yes, it is inevitable - there is nothing that can stop it - it is all futuristic and space age - every is going to use it!

This is about keeping Serato Scratch LIVE free from that crap. Keeping it what it originally professed to be. A professional system that DOES NOT DJ FOR YOU.

There are plenty of other ways to auto-sync shit - choose the right tool.
Serato is not going to fail by not implementing it - ITCH/Bridge is what they are offering if you NEED to auto-sync.

whats the difference?

ah gotcha, i do video as well. i use ME though.
so obviously itch is out.

props for writing your own quartz btw. i tried and my brain fried.


"Keeping it what it originally professed to be." THAT i can understand.
but i don't think a beat sync would dj for you.
we all know there is more to djing than matching beats.

i am a person that looks at the lines. maybe that is why i don't mind. i still use headphones, i still match keys. i don't randomly pick tracks and load them to play next. i watch the lines at some points because it's simply easier and saves my hearing. my left ear is blasted from too many years of headphone checks. those lines have literally prolonged the life of my ears. so watching the lines i am practically one step away from sync. so it does not bother me. i don't NEED it but with sync i won't have to ride the pitch and can focus more on other aspects of Djing and the performance.
sure you will get people that just "sync, crossfade, sync, crossfade." not me, that get's stale.
actually, i'd love to see those guys step up and play. they'll just make me look better and better.

"Serato is not going to fail by not implementing it"
this is true. they have other programs. but SSL is slowly sinking and VSL is dead.



MY definition of auto mix would be walking away and having it do it's thing.

"Keeping it what it originally professed to be."

that IS being a purist, an SSL Purist.
i can respect that.

btw who is it going to hurt if sync is in ssl?
and why?

whats the difference?

beat sync you have to stand there, load tracks, crossfade from one to another.
auto-mix is like itunes or whatever auto loads, fades from one track to another, you can walk away from it. it's like playing a mix set.

the difference is right there in the words.

beat-sync = beats are matched
auto-mix = automatically mixes.

beat matching is NOT mixing.
if people think it is...boy, there's a lot that can be said to them.

^^^ To add that (again), beatsync isn't going to perform EQing functions, dynamic punctuations, phrasing, tension building/resolving, etc.,... and most importantly of all, it ISN'T GOING TO PROGRAM A SET or ADJUST PROGRAMMING TO SUIT THE NEEDS/DESIRES OF THE ROOM. Beatsync simply synchronizes the beats of two or more tracks. That's it.

SSL & ITCH are getting closer and closer, so there's hope for at least Smart Sync (only set the BPM right, no matter where the pitch on the turntable is, like in TSP2).

Smart Sync only recently came into Traktor with the latest update, nut you can see it used in good effect by the turnabilists videos of craze and shiftee

Just sent those two guys an email telling them to stop using sync. Explained that it's a crutch, they don't need it and to go back to manual beatmatching or they won't be taken seriously or considered professional. Damn hacks lol.

I sure do hope Itch and Scratch live become 1 in future relases. Or at least buy a plugin for itch that allows timecode. No competition out there could match the power of Serato and itch together alongside the ease to setup and understand. Remember when I bought Serato. It felt like home after 2 hours.
Or make sync in sp-6 and decks a plugin. I would buy it instantly :)

I love seeing all these arguments on why it should be implemented. There is however one large deciding body that is taking sides and for some reason or another just won't agree with any of you "keeping with the times DJ's" (I guess thats what makes you feel better). WHO is this large body? SERATO!!! It's not happening. If you guys are so right and this NEEDS to be done than why is the leading DJ software company not doing it?? There is a freedom of speech and you guys are welcome to say whatever you want......... but just remember that the vast majority like Serato the way it is (as in no auto-sync) and if the illusion is ever portrayed that the majority of people on the forums want it thats only because most people go on forums to complain, for tech support, or assistance in some sort of way. That being said the VAST majority are completely content and using this amazing tool in nightclubs or other venues every day with a smile.

I don´t thing Serato has taken any sides on this matter. We all know sync is going to be implemented. Question is when. Why you think it took so long to release ITCH 2.0? Because they had to rewrite it from the ground up to be more like scratch live.
Two last releases of scratch live has been maintenance releases. My guess is this is done because they are planning ITCH and Scratch live to be more integrated or become all in one controller/dvs solution. To stay on the top they have to adapt. It´s nice to throw in a extra loops and some extra to make sets more interesting and only have to worry about beatmatching two decks.

HAHA good guess. I'm surprised to hear there is a "we" who all knows that it will happen. I sitting over here totally confused thinking Serato from day one has stated time and time again it will never happen.

i ask again...
who is it going to hurt if sync is in ssl?
and why?

are the people that don't want it going to drop ssl? no
do the people that don't want it HAVE to use sync? no, but i bet many will.
does it matter if using sync is "real djing" or not? no, worry about yourself and not how others mix.

if that has been stated, please show where.
you've obviously seen it, please quote it.
it should not be that hard to find since it is "time and time again", please do.

it is silly to discuss this if they state it will never happen. if they say that then discussions like this can be nipped before they even begin.

i know how to get an official answer and will do so in a few hours then post the results.

This has been stated many times in the PAST bringing up that this is a tired topic. But good luck with your research. I am glad that I am tracking this forum because you for sure are about to get the inside leak that would be the biggest news to ever come out of Serato and would change the game entirely. I am eagerly waiting on your results. Hey the DJ expo is coming up this month maybe you could do the press release for Serato and announce it to the world. I am just teasing and mean no harm but you did call me out on something that HAS actually been said and followed it with something that, well let's be honest will not happen. They will probably say this

"The short answer is no. There is no function in Scratch Live that blends two tracks together, or keeps two tracks beat matched for you.

However, there is a tempo match display window that gives you a visual representation of the peaks in both tracks, helping you align their tempo. Scratch Live also provides a beat matching display window that shows you markers to assist with beat matching.
Did you find this useful? Yes No"

and follow up with a recommendation to move to Itch.........

I mean look at what type of program scratch live is. I think It's mainly targeted at djs who use turntables and CD decks and I dont think a lot of people strictly use internal mode (where's the fun in that?) and I think it's mainly there as a backup incase something goes wrong with your gear. To my knowledge, Scratchlive doesnt use midi interfaces like itch or traktor (I apologize if i'm wrong about this, but as far as i know it doesnt), so in order for a sync button to even work you'd need to be in INT mode. But there's other ways to fix a situation where one of your turntables or cdjs isnt working right and thats using the instant doubles feature to get by on one deck. Again I apologize if im wrong about this, but I doubt anyone would buy SL just to dj from INT mode all the time (i know i wouldnt) with INT mode being the only one you could even use auto sync in. But what the hell do i know...

The computer could take into all kinds of shit when selecting, tempo, key, hisstory, time of night, chart positions, other "DJ" playlists, whos in the club, shit they say on facebook, its your birthday - all types of shit.



I wonder what Peter Hooks opinion is on the mater.



I dont think sitting on my high horse is going to change anything.



This friend of mine keeps yaping at me about some shit where he wants us to tour and have that shit streamed live to a club or some shit.... why not just tape it? is what I ask - who cares if its "live"? I always get him with what if its delayed a half minute? How about half an hour? its a dumb idea for plenty more reasons....... whatever



Peter Hook



cmon, if Serato is already full of gimmicks isnt that a reason to not add anymore?

If your soup already taste like crap - fuck add some shit flavor?

And who said "auto-sync is the only thing that's keeping (me) apart from he non-auto sync DJs"???????
You are kinda just making shit up there man




I am talking about an upstart taking position from Serato if they were to be seen as having 'sold out'. It sets up a situation where die hards jump to some upstart or other.

Remember what happened to Final Scratch, or Myspace?



Thats what Final Scratch thought.



Control Signal (the code on the vinyl)

ITCH reads a specially developed digital midi protocol - SSL reads analog Control Signal. Each was designed specifically for that task.




@tomatoslice

really dude? Thats not what I am asking - whats the difference in implementing them? In other words if you add one feature, auto-sync (which does work for you) there is no argument against adding these other features that do work for you - (auto-mix and auto-select). In otherwords, why not just make it fully automatic? In other words, whats the difference?



You skipped the sentence:
A professional system that DOES NOT DJ FOR YOU.

Im not being a SSL purist - Ive suggested dozens of ill features for SSL. If I did not not SSL to change and improve and add shit, I would just go back to 1.4 where I started. But I DO want to forever be able to say "it doesnt DJ for you".



@[O/][iii][O/]


So then are you against 'auto-select'???? The software looks at BPM, key, past playlists, time of the evening, chart positions, local favorites, famous DJs sets, lyrics (in the near future) patrons facebook pages birthdays, movement on the dancefloor... and who knows what else they are going to toss in the algorithm - all in an effort to "suggest" the next song? Are you good with that?


@tomatoslice

It will hurt the (correct) perception that SSL does NOT DJ for you. It will from then on be a program that does do some of the DJing for you. For some people that is not important - but for other people, I would have never purchased some bullshit that DJs for you. Does it even matter to the dumbshit on the dancefloor? No of course not. But SSL is not designed for that guy. It is a professional software built for DJs who know how to fucking DJ, or kids who want to learn how to actually DJ - not let the computer do the shit for you.

It will hurt the integrity of Serato - for the longest time (before ITCH) right on the front of scratchlive.com one of the features was that 'it does not DJ for you' This is a plus to the long time users who switched from vinyl. Does it say it on the front of serato.com? no - that would be pretty dumb to list this "feature" when your other products do just that. But the fact remains its NOT doing the work for you is/was a selling point in most DJs opinion.

I do promise If they do Implement Auto Sync, or Beat match............. Its back to the CD Players & TT's for me. Not just for integrity purposes, but its just more fun t =o manually OWN every mix.

I want Auto Sync all soft allready have sync only scratch live not have !!!

LOL! Good one Akiem. Still don't agree with you one this, but that was funny ;-)

hahaaa :)

Cool story

thanks bro

thank you.

it's good to see that to some people think "beat sync = Djing for you" or quite simply "beat matching = Djing."

wow, bad english. sorry about that.

But thats kinda mis-stating what I am saying. I do not think that "beat matching" is the entirety of what DJing is about. (hell you could spin classic funk 45 and never match a beat all night and still be a great DJ)

BUT - mostly the main point to DJing is blending songs together, mostly by beat matching. Selecting the right songs and mixing them together.

Isnt that one of the first skills you would teach a student? Sure you could take the position that beat matching is an ancient unnecessary skill that only our ancestors used and jump right into auto-sync. But I disagree.

And no, I am not trying to tell people what to believe DJ is - I really dont give a fuck. You may think the most important DJ skill is looking 'hot' - I dont care.

BUT - Serato was built on the premis that if you see a DJ using ScratchLIVE, the computer is NOT in control of anything. It is the human creating the performance in every aspect. It is a profession *performance* tool. It is not going to do part of the performance for you - no matter if no one in the room fucking cares - or can even comprehend - or even if beat matching is so easy that you are board to death with it.

You put auto-sync in SSL you loose that integrity. YOU might not loose it - it might not be important to YOU - but it is important to lots of people. And it is the (one of the) main reasons so many DJs adopted the program.