And you know what? I am a grown mfing, I dont want any of these toys out here. Further, this aint fanboy ish. If some one else does it, fine - I will go with that. But I dont see it. where is it?

My personal warranty, do it right and it will take the market and make the standard, 1200 users will switch (enough of us anyway)

that 4 channel is redic.

I just want a 3+4 Channel Sl Mixer :P

boooo

+1

lol... :)

Make it a 12" platter with real vinyl, too! Like the Numark CDX/HDX so us vinyl users don't lose our true vinyl feel!

... and please don't go cheap on the faders like on the Rane 57. They feel so toy-ish.

+1

If Rane came up with a controller that was anything close to this I would buy the first one off the lot, sight unseen and no questions asked.

I love my 1200s and my CDJs (and would NEVER give them up), but with the evolution of "digital" DJing, controllers like these are the next logical steps in the progression if the technology that supports the artform.

RANE GET ON THE BANDWAGON! If you do, you will OWN this market just as you do with the SL1 and the TTM-57.

my 57 is a fucking tank

Is that the only mixer you own? Try other mixers to know what I'm talking about.

if not, put the USB plug on its own board, that way when its time to upgrade we can go in and switch the board out. It would be reminiscent of switching out the RCAs on the 1200s, even better.

anything is better then twenty more years of unnecessarily keeping analog in the chain. keep analog for the audio qualities, not the control mechanism. It was a beautiful transition...

i've used plenty of pioneers, vestax, numark, denon, mackie, rane, etc. and my 57 is shittin' on all of em.

My 57 is also one of the original 57s with the better components, before they switched to all that eco-friendly crap.

There you go... no wonder. The 57 I have feels cheap.

... and your 57 may be shittin' on all of 'em mixers... but the eco-frienly 57 isn't.

i'd be curious to know how an original 56 feels to an eco-friendly 56

I think I am just about over this controller crap. At least with a turntable or CDJ they do something else, especially at over $500 a pop (stanton think that $1500 is a good price for something that only works with software).

On the other hand, if Rane made a turntable...maybe with some midi controls on it, hell maybe even a way to control playback without a record on it (a la slipmat) there's your winner.

Even just a Rane Hi-Fi turntable, a true technics killer, I would pay $1500 each for.
but for strictly controlling software, no thanks. I still own all my records.

I would pay a rather high price for a Tech killer as well.

As long as Ive got one piece of vinyl its going to get played on a 1200

But at this point analog in the chain, might as well be sipping watter out a well with a straw

touch vinyl - on a revolving plater - select song position

www.skratchworx.com
getting warmer, but

+1 more.


cept i wont sell my techs. i'll just buy the jam.

any info on the eco-shit? i've never heard of this.

Uh no...7 inch platters won't cut it. Stanton had the right idea with the 10 inch platter but it's Stanton. LOL

a while back everyone (electronics industry) had to start using "eco-friendly" components on in their products to comply with new regulations. these new components aren't as strong as the old stuff...

7" plater is too small
buttons in front?


I don't understand why it has to be all test the watery, just freakin make it already

+1 on Akiem's reason for this thread.

for the record, i never meant to suggest that the newer components "are" the problem that many users on the forum are having with the crossfader end blocks, but rather that the newer components "could be" the problem. And like i've said before...my 57 is a fucking tank. it's always on point and i've never had problems with and RANE product.

If you compare the 56 or 57 with other mixers you can't wine about the quality!! There is no product that suits everyone and that is perfect. But the 57 is very near perfect! It's an act of god ;-)

now we need a controller from the gods

Who knows if my mixer is eco-friendly or not, but it does suck compared to other older ones. My 57 feels cheap. The faders anyway.

Nope. All you have to compare is the new 57's to older 57's or older 56's to see what we're talking about.

yeah its crazy how well my first gen 57 holds up...i've had it almost a year and a half and never had to even deoxit my b1-b6 buttons. i've done the faders a couple times just for maintenance purposes, but never out of "necessity".

back to the original program...

The analog standard is 25 years old, we need a digital standard. If it wernt for a standard turntable, none of us might even be here.

I understand why everyone would want Rane to make some kind of controller for Serato, but that is not what they do.....They produce mixers. It wouldn't make good "business sense" to venture out of the mixer market. A nice 4 channel version of the 57 would be nice though.

Rane makes more then mixers. plenty of companies make mixers and turntables both.
perhaps it would be a leap mechanically but I would expect they would buy the motors from someone else.

venturing out - look at the ipod

Technics would be able to make a dope controller

Send all this info and the thread in the feature suggestions to them?

Technics have one good product, the others are mediocre at best. I wouldn't trust Technics to make anything new - they're trading on a 35 year old product and nothing more.

Getting back to Rane making a controller - no doubt that they could but that's following rather than leading. With the MIDI controller market at saturation point, and 2 other companies (that we know of) picking up ITCH, it's hard to become the standard when there's already a lot of competition.

A VSL 4 channel video mixer (with the ability to input live video cameras) would be nice.

Also, at about half the price of Pioneer's video mixer would be nice too.

Yes, but why does the 35 year old product persist so long? Analog should have been gone along time ago (aside from RR rantings). Finally Serato drops a wave platform and still the 1200 standard is nice and strong. If whatever company would just figure that out we could move on, finally, (jeez). [unless products that never need to be replaced are not good biz?] I think Technics could do it because I think the solution for the next standard is way more simple then what people believe.

Who cares if Rane fallows, as long as we get a standard. Same as Serato 'fallowing', good product first, stability DVS, or table. I dont see any comp for 1200 replacing standard at all. Closest thing is that Vestax 7" controller. way not good enough.

yeah because the sl-1200dz turned out so well...

absolutely valid, but have the 12MKs gotten worse? I don't think so. sure they fucked up with the dz. When saying Technics could do it, its not because I think they are some how infallible. Its because they are 92.47% there already. They have made THEE standard for 30 years. If they would realize that all the have to do is take analog off and put digital on. they would have the next standard. Maybe they got scared because they fucked up with the DZ thing expecting it to be the next standard. Now they are shook, when they should have dropped a controller as soon as the laptop went standard. [just me guessing, proly got it all back assward]

Take a 1200, make it send control without any ancient analog in between, add a couple buttons (not blinking) and you have the next 20 year standard solution.

I dont care who does it as long as it is done right.

I believe RANE would do it right if they would/could.


I really do not understand why it has not been done yet, its not like inventing anything new. The main shit of it has been sitting right there for 35 years, Im quite sure everyone knows how it works by now. Its a fucking turntable that controls your laptop without a needle. A fucking cd player without the cd drive.

maybe all this newave shit is being dropped on us because its going to be replaced every year or so, while I can sell my 1200s for more then what I bought them for a decade later.

No PRO DJ is ever going to roll up to the gig with his decks in his backpack. Wait all you want it wont go that way. We need a standard in the club - period.

dont make dumb ass me go try and make that shit myself

Exactly Akiem.... Take a 1200 platter and add soem well placed midi knobs and buttons and they've got a winner, it's not that hard, fuk if i had a company that big i'd have it out already

What worries me is all these companies are rushing for thier piece of the jog wheel gadget market even though there arnt to many claims to stake. anyone can come up with a bunch of buttons and shit and sell some of those. I would think that the holly grail would be a standard controller that replaces the 1200. I thought there would be hot competition to move into that position. But nope. Thats why I wish Rane would make a move for it, its wide open. Its wide open, but so needed that there is a danger that some sort of weaker then wanted controller makes standard by default.

Maybe the logic is: Hey DVS wins because you no longer have to carry crates of records. And these companies think that the same formula will win - portable decks. But the logic breaks down at this point, records are carried because they are not standardisable (there were booths with standard records in them tho). But decks are standardisable. The reason is because they are so simple a piece of gear - a rotating plater that sends a signal.

If a company today, would drop a motorized plater, even 12" that synced with SSL and send a little midi it would easily replace every single outdated analog 1200 on the planet.

Its the form factor that keeps it there. Its already proven that we will move to digital, so it doesnt stay there because its analog. And its not because there isnt a portable solution, youre not going to get even a 7" that people really want to carry around. Dont they see how even the CDJ standardized as a digital solution.

The solution is not to just keep trying to shrink shit down and carry it. Some things deserve a regular size format. I dont care if the electronics are shrunk down to a paste that you apply to it to plug in, it still has to interface with a grown man.

I fully support whatever jog wheel type shit we get as a solution for some situations, hotel, airplane, living room toilet, whatever. But not at the cost of loosing the regular size form factor all together. IT WOULD REALLY FUCKING SUCK TO BE PRESENTED WITH A BLANK TABLE BECAUSE IM EXPECTED TO PULL OUT A LITTLE JOG WHEEL GADGET AT THE GIG.

Akiem shakes his fist at the gods again "damn you gods!"

hey, you think a hundred buttons is the solution? put them on the mixer, put that shit in a separate box and carry it around, whatever, I still want my 12" plater already spinning when I get there.

akiem great opinions... the market is wide open, and great points on the size of the hardware doesn't matter, but the technology and the "inners" and or weight is where its at, look at the retro cars, furniture and so forth out in the market selling hot right now, yes it has new technology but a clean simple format :)

Word.

Updated version after posts:

img84.imageshack.us

Seems like it's missing lots of buttons. I think some should be added to future-proof that thing. The controller can be flashed to add features to those buttons.

^^^oh yeah, add sine 1200-style platter dots for looks.

sine=some

please do not add fake platter dots

I doubt highly that RANE would make gear with fake shit on it.

you ever see those 'spinner' hubcaps?

how about boom boxes that look like they have a separate tweeter, mids and bass, but there is really only one speaker inside

same shit



a professional piece of equipment should not have phony facade shit on it

i personally feel as tho the platter dots add a level of feel which isnt otherwise available.

rolling your finger onto the platter on the side, to slow the movement for a minor adjustment is so much easier if there is a knurled surface of some sort.

what if it was a different material, like a rubber that you could control the same way? you know, something that was meant to control by design

yeah thats cool... something alternative thats equally or more tactile than a knurled surface... would be excellent

yes.

Well, those slotted indentations have no use either. If you're gonna put something on there, you might as well put the dots.

I actually think a 10" disc makes more sense for a simple controller than a 12". The 12" takes up more space. I thought the Numark CDX's were a cool idea but too bulky.

okay, but dots dont have a function anymore, the strobe. people do use them to control speed, but that was by happenstance, not design. why not actually design something for that function? you might get a better result

If it were a standard in all clubs the way 1200 is now, would it matter if it was bulky?

and especially when we will have a million other portable solutions to choose from, we really wont need to carry them around like ye days of olde

I actually like the dots for the look, forget function. It will remind me of a 1200. Even Serato's logo has dots in it...

haha, cant really beat liking the look

the dots provide a roughish surface for when you pitch bend... they'd still be handy on a controller

What do you think the likelyhood is of Rane making a dedicated SSL controller similar to a technics 1200?
I don't think they're going too personally ...

right, but what if there was a better rough surface then the dots?

I dont think they will make one ether. But for all I know they are rolling one out next month.
BUT what if the 'vote' was only 1 vote against and that vote changes because of this thread?

if it was only one vote against i reckon the other guys in the office would beat on the 1 vote till he saw the light
is there a better rough surface than dots on a moving platter? i have no idea

Seriously... if it was similar to the sldz: www.panasonic.com.au but all the buttons etc for serato, then they would have to be on a winner

Absolutely.
Is anyone going to make one?
I hope RANE will because I think they would do it correctly. Maybe they can't possibly make it for whatever reason mechanical or financial, whatever. But Im going to keep asking them to do it until someone else makes one good enough.


I would imagine that a type of plastic or rubber could work better then the dots

thats true, but the problem of we, in 2008 still only having an analog solution for a standard turntable

only thing is, plastic / rubber would wear eventually. a knurled metal surface of some desription (doesnt NEED to be dots) would be harder-wearing.

the dots have worked for 30 years, if you need rubber to make your mixes better then you need to rethink yourself... ;) leave the damn dots, unless you are afraid to see how much pitch the platter is off because of bad calibration ;)

Sure the dots have worked for 30 years, but is that why weve had the 1200 for 30 years, the dots? I dont think so. As a mater of fact I graduated to using the spindle to control speed about a decade ago. In ether case neither one was DESIGNED to perform that function. Maybe by chance it is the best solution, but I dont think so.

Im sure you could find the right formula of plastic or rubber designed with the right amount of friction. And if you are worried about wear, how often are you having to replace your car tires?

All Im really getting at is that If we want to redesign the 1200, we might as well take a look at making improvements or specifics to the functions that we use it for that it was never designed for.

If metal dots is best fine.

hell put a strobe light on it too

agreed
i also replied to your other thread about the controller too

i honestly think that the focus needs to be on things that are "new"... friction and so forth for the platter has already become a "standard" lets focus on the actual slip or "media" on the platter and how the wear is on that, also the functions and or buttons added for serato control.

also, metal platter or "dots" have never been a replacable issue on techs, why add something that might wear? why add something with more traction? i don't know about you but i don't want to stop my spinning deck, you want to do it by incraments.

There is a reason other decks haven't beaten the 1200 or taken over the "Standard" there really isn't much to it, and if something is comfortable for the masses and it is reliable, leave it, just bring it up to date for a dvs or midi, and save some weight while you are at it.

heck if most of us wanted all of these bells and whistles and new "looks" we would all own numark, stanton, etc. and the techs would be long gone.

'Ricky

Gotta agree here.

There are plastics and rubbers the dont wear, or wear different, or wear better. The wearing is a non-issue. Its the formulation. Obviously you dont choose something thats going to wear. There are lots of plastics in products formulated to not wear, switches, gears, sliders all types of things. You cant just assume that replacing any plastic part with a metal part is going to wear better. You think metal tires on your car is going to wear better?

material aside, suppose we designed a surface specifically to control the speed of the plater? The reason is that the FUNCTION of the dots are to reflect the strobe(or do you want the strobe still?). When we dont need to reflect the strobe, whats left? Controlling speed is the only thing that it would be used for, but it was not designed for it. If you dont NEED the dots why not DESIGN it to meet the needs of the only function left? - controlling speed.

Now if metal dots perfectly spaced as if they are for reflecting a strobe is the BEST way of adjusting speed, then fine leave them.

But if its just for the looks, thats just toyish, leave that for products with other phony parts just trying to appeal to the people who dont know any better. A pro solution doesnt need features just because they look cool. no need to appeal to that.

Or maybe we want to touch nothing but replacing the analog with digital. Fine how far do you really want to maintain that? Why not put the strobe light back on to see the speed of the plater? How about keep the pop-up light? In fact keep the burnout light for us who actually like to take it apart and replace. How about a hardwired USB for us to go in and replace with a better cable. Lets keep the variable weighted tone arm too, we could control the song position and needle drop through telemetry. Better yet to go digital, lets just press up digital vinyl thats read by a laser mounted on a headshell. That way it can be EXACTLY like a 1200!

lol at the childish comeback, ;) hardwired usb doesnt even come on cheap taiwan products... just curious on who has complained that the standard platter with dots isn't comfortable for speed control? who said it wasn't invented for that? turntables weren't invented for scratching or touching the record but we use it to this day for that.... just alittle salt for your mix.

so reflecting your opinions, metal just doesn't cut it.... metal doesn't wear good.. *roll eyes* we aren't driving our turntables around on us66, we aren't worried about pot holes and debris in the road, if you really are worried about automobiles maybe you should join a car forum? i know i love my m5g's but taking them on the road doesn't mean popping a 5 x 114 lug pattern on them and bolting them to my tercel... lol

<3 R'

I have complained that the standard platter with dots is not comfortable for speed control. And I'm not the only one who has decided to mostly use the spindle instead of the plater. Neither one of these methods was DESIGNED to be used to control speed.

Yes, I am assuming that it was not designed to control speed because in twenty years Ive never read anything or heard anything from any official source that would lead me to believe that it was designed to perform such a function. I am reasonably sure that the original design did not take into account the need to match tempos when mixing. And the pitch control is there if you need to control speed/pitch already. I do know DJs who use the pitch control exclusively for controlling speed, and I think the pitch fader was the only speed control originally intended.

Just like you said "turntables weren't invented for scratching or touching the record" but thats what we use it for.



I did not say metal doesnt cut it. I said the material is a non-issue. Plastic, metal, rubber, whatever- Im saying dont automatically assume that metal is the best material.





The point - metal does not always wear better then rubber. Nothing more nothing less, it was an example. Would you want metal tires on your car, would they wear better? Its absurd, but the answer is 'no'. Just because it is metal does not automatically mean it will wear better.

Here is another example, closer to home since you cant appreciate the absurd. RANE mixers have a layer of Lexan (plastic) on the face plate. Does anyone complain about the wear or suggest making them with the metal exposed? I dont think so. Were they specifically designed to wear well? I think so.

I dont know if Lexan comes in any other way then sheet, but I might prefer a layer of Lexan to the non-functioning metal dots, for example.

AKIEM - Take a look bro. www.skratchworx.com

yup seen that, but If Im not mistaken it doesnt spin + its shaped funny + plus its too futuristic looking to be standard aka its not the joint for me... better then nothing tho

yep better than nothing. i hope it is a platform that someone (cough Rane) can leverage.

I went out and got some cute fuzzy bunny rabbits (letting them skeet all over and multiply greatly). Each time I see one of those bullshit toy controllers come on the market I take a bunny or two and kill it by smashing its head on a brick wall (later I gut it, decapitate it, and eat it with curry)

When you see me on tour and Im still using analog 1200s I will hang some of these rabbit skulls from my neck.

This carnage will end only if/when I get the controller I want.

During the trials I will place square blame on RANE for not making the platform that we want.

bunny blood is on your hands fellas

explain that to your kids and loved ones

it can all end today!

save the rabbits, rane, plzkthx. akiem wipe up that bunny jiz. subscribing to this thread. forgot about it for a second.

i think it is funny when products use shiny or glossy materials. did u see see all the fingerprints and crap on that thing?

not even sanitary

Oh, for the love of (deity or not of your choice) could someone with some insight, or inside information shed some light on the reasons for all the other trash being developed while this holy grail is being ignored.

please I beg you

I don't think it's possible to do better than timecoded vinyl with only midi in/out. the resolution needed for scratching can't go low enough. Someone need to invent a new protocol.

btw, what's stanton using for their system?

hmmm, I would assume that the 'native support' for the Numark iCDX, Pioneer CDJ-400 and the Denon HD4500 would be sufficient.

if its not....

have you compared serato response to traktor?

i did... i found traktors response much better at low speed.

shame the rest of the software is total poo.

please don't forget about the rabbits people...

Traktor uses timecoded vinyl as well, what's your point? It might be better than serato at low speed but the program, control vinyl and interface is also what 3-5 years later in technology....

yeah but you said


so i answered that.

i dont think th you would ever need to go higher res than what traktor does.

Sorry I meant for a plain midi unit, no timecoded vinyl at all.... midi can't transmit data fast enough.

Timecoded control vinyl, is the best we'll see unless someone makes a new transmitting protocol other than midi

Isn't that what ITCH is supposed to be?

right, I thought that you could get a pretty hi resolution from this 'new midi', unlike the 'old midi. Not knowing much about the new, I guess because its computerized and travels by usb, not midi cable.

But if not, Im pretty sure that Numark iCDX, Pioneer CDJ-400 and the Denon HD4500 use a new protocol developed by Serato.

At least thats what it seams Sam is calling native support www.scratchlive.net

Also I think there was a video someplace where Sam or someone speaking about itch dismissed any resolution issues because of this 'native support'

I'm sure i read somewhere Sam said that it could go down as far as timecode. Now if I'm wrong then itch will be the new scratch. Serato Scratch is limited to 2 decks, my guess would be that itch is not.

I think they will probably leave itch as being 2 deck slimmed down version of serato scratch and there will be a new Serato Scratch Live 2.0 in the not too distant future.

(whipping rabbit blood from my hands)
I think there is a way that you could combine the needs of the analog turntable user and the cdj user with this thing.

probably already worked out or even already on deck, if not...

Three different modes

1. Analog Emulation
The Pitch Fader controls the speed of the motor just like a turntable. And the speed is dictated by the vinyl movement.

2. Digital / Analog Hybrid Emulation
The Pitch Fader controls the speed of the motor, and also determines the playback speed digitally. SSL playback ignores any motor fluctuation and stays locked to the exact speed digitally set by the pitch fader. But at the same time the vinyl is monitored. When there is enough differentiation between the digital pitch setting and the vinyl movement the analog control kicks in. In other words, the pitch is digitally constant like cdj (no fluctuation) until you put your hand on the vinyl and analog control takes over. (maybe the already existing rotating plater joint out there already do this, but I doubt)

3. Digital
SSL playback speed is controlled by the Pitch Fader. The speed of the vinyl is only monitored to accelerate or break the speed digitally. This would be like the CDJ. Even more like the CDJ perhaps the motor could be stopped and locked, so that the platform is static.

The reason for combining these functions would be to aim for a standard the most people are comfortable with. With this you configuration you could have the best of both worlds, analog, digital or both!

this post might be important to above discussion
www.scratchlive.net

Technics should come out with a turntable where the pitch slider doesn't control the speed of the platter, but is midi assignable, with a few knobs and buttons to map the rest of "turntable functions" inside Serato. that way we have the best of both worlds, vinyl control emulation with control vinyl, but 100% speed/pitch slider

thats what this does.

www.dolphinmusic.co.uk

get rid of that musical note bullshit and it's close to what i'd want

technics FTW

im sorry but no. technics dont make anything remotely like what we're talking about, so theres no winning with technics. their only attempt at a nice digital solution was the DZ which was complete pony. technics is not in this discussion, at all.

this is about proposing a complete controller solution.

A thought...

Something that the stanton scs 1d has, which this controller would most definately benefit from.

Motorised pitch fader

Could be cool, but at what cost, and how much use? The only people who I think it would benefit are people who go back and fourth between INT and the physical pitch fader. Who does that? If we just digitally lock the soft to the fader you could always just touch the real fader. (unless we are trying to get into some auto mixing? ha)

huh? if you take the buttons off a Controller One you just have an analog turntable right?

lets say you want to instant double... you could instant double, and have the pitch fader... automatically slide into place.

true, I can see that

Don't take off the buttons, but their use in that controller is complete waist of time for my use. I'm not a juggler, or turntablist by any means.

We've all made our little mock ups etc. in other threads and this. but if i'm right about control vinyl being better than a straight midi controller, you'd either want for "turntablists" the needle and tone arm (there's alot of tricks you can't do on cdjs which you can with vinyl) and another controller which would be like a cdj but without the cds.

The ultimate for me would be a controller similar to a cdj but with firmware running the control signal through it (that way you would have to worry about changing cds and extra parts failing), the controller would probably have to outputs, one for sound (the control signal) and one for midi (for all the buttons).... actually thinking about it you would probably keep the pitch linked to controlling the spped of the platter, thus the control signal.

Not sure guys, ideas just ideas.

I mean, i know you guys wont like this because it seems too much like automix, but say you were using reaktor or ableton in conjunction with serato, you could have the pitch fader automatically shift to the midi clock, which means when producing, you could get this kind of effect:

Watchwww.youtube.com

Check this interview:
www.skratchworx.com



So, the proof is still in the pudding but... no need for audio d/as and a/ds and boxes and crap.
just a usb

This part is what concerns me.
And that it was stated that Rane does not intend to make any controller for itch (or for SSL, I assume)


The way I see it, we are stuck.
1200 is still the standard. There is no reason to be stuck with this 30 year old technology (as much as I love and even prefer vinyl in the club, but only to hear, not me carrying it, storing it in my house, buying crap etc)

CDJ as standard as it has become will never overtake 1200 as a standard because its not the rotating plater that too many of us need. But now that we have the cdj, people dont wont to give it up because of the digital precision.

Its messy with one old standard without a suitable replacement standard, and a new emerging standard that falls short without the rotating plater. And CD is going to be old tech soon, all it is is a safety back up device.

But if we could combine the best elements of both, let go of the rest, we could have a new standard.

If we dont get a real standard we are stuck carrying bullshit around again. Thats what Im guessing these companies are aiming for with these jog wheel toys. Its sad, almost as sad as laptop only trash.

We NEED a rotating platter, and digital speed control both.

we could have a standard again.

Standard is way more portable then toy miniature.


The solution is digital pitch that kicks into mechanical control when your hand touches it. It will have the precise pitch control and the rotating plater analog feedback. Good for both CDJ users and TT users. It would feel and work like both. The divide between 1200 and CDJ would be over, forever.



As far as the tone arm, I dont see too many tricks that require a it, personally I dont think it compares to what could/would be gained by getting rid of it. I couldnt imagine that clubs would keep 1200s installed just in case a DJ might do a tone arm trick. Its been years since Ive seen such a trick.

when you are scratching why would it mater where the pitch is? and if you are mixing a sample into the program, wouldnt you want whatever you cue up on the controller to automatically lock into the master tempo of the whole program?

It seems to me that you could just use an infinite rotary knob to control the master bpm.

Why would you be beat matching with a system like that? Maybe if you wanted to use a turntable to control the master bpm, but even then you would probably want to engage/disengage it.

in the example given, the samples are triggered by midi on beat. lets say the samples were timed to a beat, you would want them to alter pitch to suit the tempo...

also, if you were hoping to snag a live stream of audio, this would also be possible...

hmmm not quite fallowing,
say you have four or five channels of samples looped and beat matched to the main bpm of the program, which one would your controller be pitch locked to?

if you bring up a new sample controlled by the controller wouldnt the sample automatically adjust its tempo to match the master bpm? what would you need to adjust the pitch fader for?

if a motorized fader did automatically move to represent the sample shifting, why? are you going to adjust it and unlock it from the master?

see with auto-bpm stuff you dont even need a pitch fader

That's where i read it thanks...

How about the controller controls the software via usb midi. The audio is piped back to that deck via the usb and comes out rca. you could then use the mixer of your choice. The controller could be made to work with other software as well.

If you could combine the needed and best features of the 1200 and the CDJ you would have a winner for standard instillation.

I dont want to live in a world where I am expected to show up with a little jog wheel box

Hey Akiem - great thread man. It's been a while since I've been on here and just found this.

SL is the business. Plain and simple. We all know it - but with the two glaring, gigantic holes missing in this technology #1) a REAL/professional/industry-standard caliber controller and #2) REAL album art/thumbnails, I feel like it's all hit a brick wall in the march towards progress. It's a shame because I really feel like the whole thing is like 80% there so why not just finish it out for god's sake and complete the package (before someone else does). C'mon Rane, craft the silver bullet already.

Signed,
Highly frustrated, but optimistic and patiently waiting

I would love a cdj controller that doesn't need the cd. I find these to be a pleasure to use. I play both house and I can battle with the best and find the cdj type controller to handle it all. No moving platter took a little time to get used to to but so did SSL. do DJ's hate CDJ's? I was just DJing in Indonesia and saw more CDJ's then Turntables.

I agree about the downsizing. I don't want to be an Ipod dj just don't want to carry ten box's of records to a gig.

yup, we have no future
life will be shit if a shit standard emerges
or no standard

I really do wonder how/why Rane decided not to get in this game.
What company is better positioned? Who has the leverage?

I hope Rane changes its mind.

the only thing I could think of is that maybe to do a deck right (1200 like) it would be too expensive.

Have they definately decided not to get into this game?

I don't think Rane's ever made anything with a spinning platter... that could be a factor.

I still vote for just outfitting a next-gen Technics DZ-1200 with MIDI/ITCH, but that would be a Serato issue, not Rane.

right, look what happened when they partnered with Serato.
maybe they could find a partner to make the motor?
What company makes all components from scratch anyway?



I wonder why they are shying away from even a static controller? because it has jog wheels? how much different is a jog wheel controller from a 57? not much if you ask me.

From what I can tell Rane's focus has always been signal processing... EQ's, amps, preamps, compressors, the SL1, mixers, etc. The 57, regardless of any "extra" functionality bestowed upon it by Serato, is still a mixer.

Vestax, on the other hand, makes most excellent static midi controllers as well as competent mixers... add Serato functionality to that and voila; enter the VCI-300.

I think companies do better with product collaborations when they stick to their individual strengths.

Take a TTM57, flatten, widen, and add the Jog Wheels and youve got a VCI-300.
Thats it, just the Jog Wheels. and what are jog wheels?
advanced rotary knobs. direction and speed.

Its not a giant leap

I think they just dont want to make any 'toys'

Maybe Rane staff would come in here and talk about the real reasons why, make my guessing and ranting look stupid.


I know some people think there are too many DJs who love turntables and vinyl too much to ever switch to a controller. I think that is a mistake. The majority of DJs who have switched to SSL (especially ABS mode) will also choose a controller if it feels close enough to a 1200. In fact I think that it is a smaller jump then vinyl to SSL.

If some other company actually makes a controller that both 1200 users, CDJ users, and club owners agree on where would that leave Rane in this game?

Whoa.... easy there :)

really tho, less the Jog Wheels what does the VCI-300 do that Rane has not already done?

I think you're oversimplifying the jog wheel issue.

Not all jog wheels are created equal. The quality of a decent jog wheel alone has got to be at least as difficult to nail down as the quality of a good turntable motor. Not only does it need to be to responsive and have a good "feel" to it (resistance, weight, etc) but it has to be able to stand up to a moderate amount of abuse. Add a spinning platter and you've got quite the project on your hands.

You're talking about adding a whole new R&D department to a company whose primary focus is signal processing... that or a 3-way collaboration between Rane, Serato & (insert manufacturer here).

Im not saying it would be easy. Just not too far out of character. The same way developing one of the best faders on the market was probably not easy, and probably seen as'out of character' for Rane.

The TTM57 is a signal processor and a controller. Why should Rane not move on with controllers if signal processing is no longer required? They have so much capital in the DJ game, why not leverage that, and move on?

apply the creativity and expertise used in developing the fader to developing a jog wheel if not a motor.

How would developing a quality fader be out of character for a company that got its start in the 80's making mixers, EQ's, crossovers, amps & such? All of those require either faders, knobs or some other volume-control actuator.

I'mm not saying they couldn't do it... just that there's no guarantee that they'd do it well. One could apply your same reasoning to Technics after they solidified themselves in the DJ world with their turntable quality and moved on to making mixers and CD players.

of course there is no guarantee that Rane would do it right. But I would bet on Rane before most of the other companies jumping in.

Im just saying that (from my pov) 1. there is no standard device. 2. Rane has perfect market/tactical advantage because of its mixers and SSL. 3. I think its a mistake to bank on analog audio control systems staying around much longer. Which is what I think Rane is doing, counting on CDJ and 1200s. Perhaps I am wrong and we will have 1200 installed in clubs for another 20 years, but I doubt it. And perhaps Rane has some completely other plan.

I dont think they are holding back because they are afraid of Jog Wheels.

Im not saying that its not a leap, or a risk, or might be difficult, so what everything is. Havnt Rane made advances in the past?

And dont know why you would need a whole new R&D department to make a jog wheel. I would expect that they would purchase the encoder from a company that makes them, same as other switches and encoders on Rane gear. I doubt Vestax makes its own encoders and switches. Unless a suitable rotory encoder does not already exist, they would just buy them like everyone else does.

I think we're talking apples and oranges.

If a "standard device" is going to be a full-sized controller, unless a mixer, compressor, amp and/or EQ is built in to it I don't see where Rane fits in. A full-size controller would be something closer to the turntable/CDJ end of things as far as construction is concerned, and why ask Rane for something like that before, say, Pioneer? You may as well ask Rane to design a CDJ-1000 with midi functions.

I would ask Pioneer, but this is the SSL forum. And its an open thread anyone can read it and benefit or laugh at the wants/needs of some of the consumers.

For all I know Rane staff are laughing at this thread right now and think I am an idiot for crying about it. But since I dont know, and only have limited powers of speculation and even less information as to why they said they wont make a controller I am going to keep saying my peace. I would still like to see the Rane perspective and sensibilities applied to these other products.

All the time, companies find new markets then expand on their offerings to that market once they get a foot hold. I bet there are plenty of corporate 'how to books' written about it. Maybe Rane cant do it, or just dont want to do it. I dont know.



If you take a TTM57, and add Jog Wheels, you have one of these controllers. Rane has already had plenty of experience with rotary encoders. These are just higher resolution encoders, probably need better chips and so on.

Im pretty sure that they would not try to build an encoder from scratch but would instead purchase them from one of a hundred companies that make a hundred types of rotary encoders.

www.gpi-encoders.com
news.thomasnet.com
www.usa.canon.com


If they were going to make a rotating plater, I would assume that they would purchase the motors from a company that builds motors instead of making them from scratch.


In reality I dont care who makes it, as long as it gets made. The real reason to ask (if Rane cant make it) is to let other companies know that we want a Rane-like product. We want the controller that Rane would make. So far the other products Ive seen from other companies are not going make good standards.

I wonder if Pioneer's been approached at all... I can't imagine the pitch hasn't been made.

I'd love to see a Rane version of the Allen & Heath X:one 3d with Serato/Itch support. I think they could pull that off pretty easily. A full-sized device with moving parts and such though? Skeptical cat is fraught with skepticism. I'd be ecstatic if they could prove me wrong though.

icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com

Well, it looks like Stanton has released something that has a lot of the features suggested in this thread.

www.enterthesystem.com

That actually looks pretty good... but this presentation video doesn't convince me. I can't tell if the equipment is malfunctioning on him or if he just... well... DJ's so bad ;).

Watchyoutube.com

<waits for public beta test>

yes, Ive been looking at that (online).
Why does it have strobe marks on the plater?
Why is it so low?
Will it work with any other mixer?
How can you read 12 o'clock on cue position?
If I want to show up with my 57, or any other mixer could I use that deck?

I dont think that it was made to be a standard. I doubt highly that it will be installed in to many clubs. And it doesnt look to rugged to me. I dont think its better then nothing, and I hope developers understand if it doesnt succeed that its not the attempt at a 1200 replacement that holds it back. Good for mobile, bedroom studio tho.

yes, dread should have had that train he was driving worked out a little better before the demo


then you have: NS7
Watchyoutube.com
How can you read 12 o'clock on cue position?
Would it survive being checked on a plane?
Is 7" really enough?

I cant see this installed in too many clubs ether. My first instinct is to pull out a saw and cut that thing apart.

and this: VCI-B1
Watchyoutube.com

This actually looks like a real attempt at replacing the 1200, but
How do you control the speed with such a thin plater and no spindle?
Is the vinyl replaceable? (that one is warped to shit)
How can you read 12 o'clock on cue position?
If I want to show up with my 57, or any other mixer could I use that deck?

Im still not convinced that 7" is enough, I still think you need 12", and 10" is only a compromise. At least it looks like it is built rugged and simple and is aiming at some type of standard replacement for the 1200

Watchyoutube.com
take a look at the inside of the VCI-100
I just dont see anything in there that I imagine Rane could not handle. Switches and chips. The only part are the jog wheels, and.......

I really dont think its a mater of Rane thinking that they couldnt make one, or it wouldnt come out well for whatever reason (especially partnered with Serato). I think they just dont want to make a controller.

I am guessing because they are 'toyish'. Im probably wrong, but I dont know what else to think.

GOD DAM the platter on the VCI-100 looks like someone left it in the sun! is that really the video vestex released!!!!

you mean the vinyl on the VCI-B1
yeah pretty silly

I think its a mistake to use actual vinyl on these things when you could find a plastic formulation that feels like vinyl, without it warping and shit like vinyl.

Wow.

wow the arcade button thing is the shit. the vestex thing works with serato?

Akiem would be happy if Rane dropped its faders into a little jog wheel itch box, as a segway into the Real Controller.

The NS7 is completely out of the question. One piece + massive + Numark = do not want... at least until the 1-year minimum public beta test period is up.

I REALLY like the Stanton unit, but again, build quality is suspect.

The VCI B1 only has 10 buttons. Unacceptable.

The VCI-300 makes me drool, but again, it's an all-in-one and the platters could stand to be just a little larger... or so I think (I haven't actually tried one yet).

I do believe Rane could make a VCI-100 clone but I would hope they would aim a bit higher than that... like the aforementioned X:one 3d ;).

Who knows anything about Reloop?

www.reloopdj.com

my first thought was.... 'its a numark total control isnt it?'

Looks very similar to my eyes...

www.synthtopia.com

peep:
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