Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

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 Serato DJ Pro General Discussion
autogain is different between SSL, Itch and Sersto Dj..
Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

autogain is different between SSL, Itch and Sersto Dj..

wellzz 6:56 PM - 11 January, 2014
from my understanding of Auto Gain, once it is set to a certain decibel level (which Serato recommends to be 92db), it is supposed to level out the volume of all of your tracks which have been Analyzed with the auto gain. Yet, any track that has been previously analyzed with Itch (where it played correctly with all of the gains playing at normal levels between the green and red meter lights), now tends to peak into the reds when the same track is played back in Serato DJ (currently version 1.5 2.). This is exaggerated even more if the track was instead analyzed in SSL and then played back in Serato DJ. Shouldn't 92db sound the same across the board regardless of which version of serato is used??
I assume that I can solve the problem within my library by just re analyzing everything in Serato DJ (if that's the version that I plan to use). The problem is that if another dj who's library was analyzed in Itch or SSL now plays his tracks on my laptop (via external drive or flash stick), we find ourselves having to adjust the gain on his tracks down.

Why is that??
DjCity 7:17 PM - 11 January, 2014
I been asking this since sdj came into existence.

Have yet to get a good answer.
clearblu 9:15 PM - 11 January, 2014
Same here.
Still using Itch
Christophlex 12:52 AM - 12 January, 2014
I use Scratch Live to analyze my files, then use them in Serato DJ. When you analyze in Serato DJ, it still is not saving the settings. So as soon as you close the program the analyzation goes away.
wellzz 3:23 PM - 13 January, 2014
Quote:
I use Scratch Live to analyze my files, then use them in Serato DJ. When you analyze in Serato DJ, it still is not saving the settings. So as soon as you close the program the analyzation goes away.


Christopher, that sounds like a different issue then what I'm experiencing. In my case, the analyzation IS saved in serato dj. My issue is that 92db (or whatever db setting is chosen for autogain) on Serato Dj sounds different then the same db setting in both SSL and Itch.
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:31 PM - 13 January, 2014
Try the 1.6.0BETA Then if still an issue open a BUG report in the BETA Area!

This way it goes straight to the dev team!
wellzz 4:56 PM - 13 January, 2014
With Serato's recent move to unify all of their softwares into one cohesive Serato DJ software, all of this should be a thing of the past once everyone re-analyzes their library with the latest version. The problem I see, will be for those transitioning from SSL or Itch who choose to keep their libraries "as is" and only analyze the newer tracks that they add after switching to Serato Dj. For them it will be a nightmare when they mix older and newer tracks since they will find themselves having to adjust the gains one way or the other. obviously the bigger the library the bigger the headache.

*** for those transitioning from SSL there is one additional headache they might encounter, it involves cue points beIng slightly off the mark from one software to the other.
Dj MacMillz 10:14 PM - 13 January, 2014
Eventually all files will have to get reanalyzed if you are migrating from SSL because of the beatgrids and ability to use slicer etc. even if you don't use sync, it still has to be on for those functions and for the beatgrid.
Johnnynights 10:13 PM - 6 February, 2014
Now this is a problem im having i was on ssl 2.5.0 and updated to the new sdj 1.6 now heres the problem with sdj i analyzed all my tracks at 92db auto gain and they clipped almost all of them so i lowered the auto gain to 91db and none of the gains on my songs lowered now i analyzed them again at 91db and is a mess some are ok some are loud some too low.

On ssl i had the auto gain at 94db no clipping only a few songs needed adjusting but it was perfect,and when i would lower the auto gain on ssl or put it higher it would lower the gains of all my tracks on sdj i have to analyze the whole library all over again this sucks.

Im using a 62 by the way

Looks like im going to have to go back to ssl
&Midge 8:14 AM - 7 February, 2014
I'm having similar issues. It's just too loud even at 89db. What I don't full understand this within setup > mixer there is now a db booster which is auto set to +6db and you have the option to raise to +12db.

Does this mean the auto gain at say 91db is really by default 97db?

This could really do with having a -6db and 0db settings alongside the db booster values of +6db and +12db. Serato has always been too loud for my analogue mixer......

Also, please, please bring back the Master Gain Knob! =D
Kristian Valdini 10:34 AM - 7 February, 2014
******************
Plugged in my SX and fired up DJ (1.6) and most of my channel signals are now pushing into the red?

Before I updated to DJ (1.6) my levels were all fine using autogain (92db) - I have not changed any settings from this.

Do I need to re-analyse my files at a lower 'auto gain' to get back to normal?

K
Dj Manzo 3:00 PM - 7 February, 2014
Anyone from Serato will reponse about that clipping problem ... Scratch live not clipping but serato dj 75 % of my song are clipping...
Kristian Valdini 3:46 PM - 7 February, 2014
**********************
+1

K
DJ RAYMAN666 3:47 PM - 7 February, 2014
Serato dj sucks. I uninstaled it after 30 mins ssl is better also serato dj lags
And the sync doesnt really work.
R-Dub 4:41 PM - 7 February, 2014
i turned auto gain off. i dont need some half ass software messing with the volume of my songs. wht i have done is adjust the gain for each individual song as its playing. get it right then leave it, supposedly SDJ will remember the setting. BTW the gain is WAY WAY too sensitive. i move it a C hair up and the track is banging in the red. And there are no numbers or even lines to give you a visual reference as to how much you've raised or lowered the gain, totally amateur.
Kristian Valdini 5:08 AM - 11 February, 2014
******************
Any word from Serato on this... seems to be a pretty common issue?

Is there any work around before I re-analyse my library (which is fine, just will take an evening)?

K
djburnee 5:37 AM - 11 February, 2014
I have set the Auto Gain to 91db instead of 92 and reanalyzed some clipping files, for me it seems to work but this can't be the solution!
Sounds By JB 8:13 AM - 11 February, 2014
mmm I notice the auto gained files are pretty 'hot'. They often will run in red and it seems very little headroom left.

On the other hand, there is no audible clipping, but very likely because of the internal handling of the sound being in 24 or 32 bits. I did notice on my latest recording that there were various points that clipped and im not the type of DJ to twist my knobs to the max.

Perhaps it is wise indeed to set autogain to 91db for all files.. but than why have it on 92 by default..

And is there a way to only reanalyze my gain?
clearblu 12:43 PM - 11 February, 2014
I've got to be honest here the gain structure on Itch is where Serato want to go and from what I've discussed with long term SSl users some things are better left alone. I still analyse my files using Itch for gain structure and play in DJ. It's almost as if the algorithm for gain structure is incorrect with a lot of controllers or it could be that we are all just used to using SSL or Itch in a certain way. If it's affecting a bunch of us I'm sure the team will look at it. I've still got to do a video to point out some practical changes in mapping on my own controller for the team but haven't had the time. Sdj is around for the long haul and will get tweaked continually until I'm 100% happy and confident I'll stick with what work's
Kristian Valdini 8:20 PM - 11 February, 2014
*******************
Have re-analysed to 90db... if I need to boost the master I'll do it via the main output.
It is not a huge issue, and something not worth crying about :)

...the whole SL3 using DJ is a whole other matter tho - awful!

K
Kristian Valdini 3:01 PM - 12 February, 2014
****************
A few tracks still coming in hot and pushing the red???

K
Sounds By JB 10:21 PM - 12 February, 2014
Been experimenting a bit, it seems that when just batch removing the SERATO_AUTOGAIN tag by using a tool like mp3tag and reanylising only the gain gets recalculated. My cue points were kept in tact.
R-Dub 4:04 AM - 13 February, 2014
whats SERATO_AUTOGAIN tag?
Kristian Valdini 6:23 AM - 13 February, 2014
******************
Can someone from Serato chime in on this?

K
RichieBlood 5:05 PM - 13 February, 2014
I have this problem too. Files originally analysed in Scratch Live sound far to hot in Serato DJ. I have re-analysed them in Serato DJ and most are ok - but some still have gain turned up too full.
Kristian Valdini 9:56 AM - 19 February, 2014
***************
Any updates on this?

K
wellzz 9:35 PM - 19 February, 2014
I initiated this thread over a month ago and still no answer from serato...
Ricky 305 4:43 AM - 20 February, 2014
i actually got someone from serato answering me back on this issue here serato.com but so far not helping much.
Kristian Valdini 8:10 AM - 20 February, 2014
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This seems to be a genuine issue/bug - usually the guys are pretty upfront with stuff like this, but seems to be a bit of a head in the sand job this time?

Frustrating, as now manually adjusting tracks, and will no doubt have to re-do this all again once the 'fix' comes out!

K
clearblu 8:16 AM - 20 February, 2014
Reanalyse your tracks and your golden
You'll notice a difference straight away
Kristian Valdini 8:23 AM - 20 February, 2014
*********************
See above... not so golden yet, even at 90db.

K
clearblu 9:28 AM - 20 February, 2014
Hmmmm
I have no problem on osx but Itch (and I suspect ssl) the gain structure is diffrent and if you run both side by side you can't half tell the difference. Just tried it as I did think 'this can't be right'
But it's really noticeable
Kristian Valdini 9:47 AM - 20 February, 2014
****************
Yep, channel gains were boosted by about 50% it seems... crashing into the reds :(

K
dj-freestyle 4:26 PM - 20 February, 2014
yes and if you enable pitch n time its even hotter. they need to adjust im sure.
Serato, Support
Matt P 5:51 PM - 26 February, 2014
Hey Guys,

So, Auto Gain shouldn't have changed. There has been a reported bug when analyzing tracks without the auto-bpm and set beat grid option selected. This should be fixed very soon.

The way to workaround this is to have both options checked when analyzing your files.

Is this what some of you are experiencing?

Or are you specifically noticing that the gain of the output of SDJ is louder than SSL?

Matt P
dj-freestyle 5:54 PM - 26 February, 2014
Way louder
Ricky 305 5:57 PM - 26 February, 2014
a lot louder
Ricky 305 5:58 PM - 26 February, 2014
i have never analyzed a track without the two options checked. Re-analyzing in sdj1.6 does not fix it either. Track stays in the red.
dj-freestyle 5:59 PM - 26 February, 2014
Ya tracks in red and in scratch live half way up green.
Serato, Support
Matt P 6:17 PM - 26 February, 2014
Hi Ricky 305, Ricky 305,

Tracks are in the red in the software correct? under the individual gain? Are these all Mp3 files?

Quote:
Re-analyzing in sdj1.6 does not fix it either. Track stays in the red.


Is this only with Rane hardware or are you guys finding this on other hardware too?

Matt P
LJ_WOOLSEY 6:17 PM - 26 February, 2014
LOADS Louder and tracks are in the red in the vu meter for each channel in sdj.
dj-freestyle 6:20 PM - 26 February, 2014
my 62 and pioneer ddj-sx
dj-freestyle 6:20 PM - 26 February, 2014
and sl3
Ricky 305 6:35 PM - 26 February, 2014
yes they are mp3 files and also mp4. its in red in the individual gain meters. but in the green in SDJ1.3 and SSL. Check the video in my other support post here serato.com
Kristian Valdini 6:36 PM - 26 February, 2014
******************
Far too loud, pushing tracks in each channel (within the software) into the red using SDJ with DDJ-SX... even when reanalysing with the autogain set to 90db (!).

K
&Midge 6:37 PM - 26 February, 2014
SL2 user, it's far too loud. Even set down to 89db i'm in the red and have my gains on the mixer set to minimum (7 O'Clock) still in the red. No Headroom to do anything. I have to adjust each channel gain in SDJ down (no master gain, grrrr).

After a period of time mixing the sound quality seems to degrade. Switch back to SSL and I can hear a big difference. Maybe the effects are not fully switching off? But the sound defo becomes weak and less clear.
Serato, Support
Matt P 6:53 PM - 26 February, 2014
Hi Guys,

I've tried reproducing this here. I know this is going to be wildly unpopular, but i'm just not seeing the same results. I'm going back to back with and SL2 and Pioneer DDJSX.

Can i get an idea of what system specs you guys are on, OS etc.

I'm only testing with Mp3 files. But if I analyze in SDJ 1.6 and then go and compare in SSL 2.5 i'm getting very similar readings in the vu meters for the individual channels, in fact, i'm really struggling to notice any difference at all :/

I've then gone and analyzed a track in SSL 2.5 then tested in SDJ 1.6. and had the same result.

Any help as to what variables there are will help us identify why you guys are experiencing this issue.

Matt P
LJ_WOOLSEY 6:59 PM - 26 February, 2014
Do you have pitch and time? As this has already been talked about and with pnt the gain is higher.
Serato, Support
Matt P 7:02 PM - 26 February, 2014
LJ_WOOLSEY,

Quote:
Do you have pitch and time? As this has already been talked about and with pnt the gain is higher.


Yep, turned that on and off too..

Matt P
LJ_WOOLSEY 7:07 PM - 26 February, 2014
Well that is strange as it has been talked about in different posts across the forum.

You sure your using 1.6.0 release version and not a beta or in house version? (Just checking)
Ricky 305 7:15 PM - 26 February, 2014
mac osx mountain lion i7 8gb of ram internal 500gb

also tested on a mac osx mavericks i7 with 16gb ram and internal solid state 500gb

and same results. as the videos i sent. much higher readings with clippings in sdj 1.6 everything fine in sdj 1.3 and ssl
Serato, Support
Matt P 7:22 PM - 26 February, 2014
Hi LJ_WOOLSEY,

Public releases of SDJ 1.6 and SSL 2.5. Checked.

Ricky 305, I just replied in your thread.

Matt P
dj.VALmonster 7:36 PM - 26 February, 2014
I'm using an SL3 and also a ddjsx and noticed a significant difference in the gain for all my tracks. This difference only occurred once I updated to 1.6.
&Midge 8:07 PM - 26 February, 2014
Windows 7, AMD A6-3420M APU with Radeon HD Graphics, Quad Core 1.50 GHz, 8GB Ram.
&Midge 8:11 PM - 26 February, 2014
I'm not running PnT....
Serato, Support
Matt P 8:14 PM - 26 February, 2014
Hi &Midge,

Cheers for that. Your problem with this -

Quote:
After a period of time mixing the sound quality seems to degrade. Switch back to SSL and I can hear a big difference. Maybe the effects are not fully switching off? But the sound defo becomes weak and less clear.


Might be related to this -
Quote:
AMD A6-3420M APU with Radeon HD Graphics, Quad Core 1.50 GHz, 8GB Ram.


Shows you are a little under spec :( But still doesn't rule out the gain issue...

Matt P
&Midge 8:41 PM - 26 February, 2014
Hey Matt,

Thanks for the response.

Quote:
Shows you are a little under spec :(


My system is tightly optimized, no other programs running, wifi off and CPU usage is really low.....
.....I reckon something else is going on.
Ricky 305 8:47 PM - 26 February, 2014
Quote:
Hey Matt,

Thanks for the response.

Quote:
Shows you are a little under spec :(


My system is tightly optimized, no other programs running, wifi off and CPU usage is really low.....
.....I reckon something else is going on.


AMD processors not supported by serato read here serato.com
&Midge 8:50 PM - 26 February, 2014
Quote:
AMD processors not supported by serato read here serato.com



Yes I'm aware of this, never had an issue in the past.
&Midge 8:56 PM - 26 February, 2014
Even though AMD are not supported reading through past support threads it seems i3, i5, i7 cause more issues.
Ricky 305 8:56 PM - 26 February, 2014
ok just letting you know. for now i've just gone back to using serato dj 1.3 and ssl in the clubs. i would love to transfer completely to sdj 1.6
&Midge 9:02 PM - 26 February, 2014
me too mate, I love many of the features in SDJ but it's just not working for me at the moment. I hope Serato can make the much needed tweeks real soon.
&Midge 9:16 PM - 26 February, 2014
Matt P, can you answer a couple of questions please?

1) The +6db / +12db boosting in SDJ is this done post or pre auto gain? If i scan to 89db is that not really 95db?
2) Why cant I have an option not to boost or even reduce the to -6db?
3) Why have you guys removed the master gain?
swavek 9:27 PM - 26 February, 2014
Let me chip in. I'm on 62, still use SSL to play, but SDJ to analyze files (just in case one day...). Both set to 92 dB. When files get analyzed in SDJ off-line player, they go hot - well into yellow, now and again hitting on red. But when I then load them into SSL, they're way quieter, hardly even touching yellow, and I have to adjust the volume of virtually every one of them manually as I go.
DjCity 11:05 PM - 26 February, 2014
@Matt P

This is the issue of gain being hotter than Itch and ssl.

Serato DJ has a much hotter signal than itch had and a hotter signal than SSL had.

I reported this issue when Serato DJ 1st dropped. What is happening now is a lot of SSL users are just now seeing this for the first time.

The hotter signal of Serato DJ is an issue that has never been addressed.

Here are 2 old help requests I put up back when Serato DJ first came out and I switched over from itch.

July 20, 2013
serato.com

August 3, 2013
serato.com

This was my theory of what the issue might be.
serato.com
SSL and Itch based hardware don't seem to work very well with Serato DJ.
It would be good to know if all the people having the gain/volume issue are using hardware that was designed for SSL or Itch as opposed to Serato DJ designed hardware.
DjCity 11:34 PM - 26 February, 2014
Btw...

To even things out a bit I have auto gain set on 89db.

I keep my gains on Pioneer DDJ SX set between 10-11:00, master around the same.

No more red for the most part.
Dj ListenDat 12:02 PM - 27 February, 2014
So the solution would be to lower gain value in SDJ options ?
dj-freestyle 4:23 PM - 27 February, 2014
Ya do we need to lower the gain and rescan compared to scratch live. its a huge difference.
DjCity 4:32 PM - 27 February, 2014
That's what I did and it worked for me.

Check out the threads I posted and check out the threads posted in them for more detail.
dj-freestyle 4:34 PM - 27 February, 2014
Ok ill do that tonight. figured that was issue.
amphidelic 5:47 PM - 27 February, 2014
Quote:
I've got to be honest here the gain structure on Itch is where Serato want to go and from what I've discussed with long term SSl users some things are better left alone. I still analyse my files using Itch for gain structure and play in DJ. It's almost as if the algorithm for gain structure is incorrect with a lot of controllers or it could be that we are all just used to using SSL or Itch in a certain way. If it's affecting a bunch of us I'm sure the team will look at it.


You've just described my experience with SDJ on my DDJ-S1. My Limiter kicks in, although the output LEDs in the mixer section show me just in the green, or sometimes barely out of it.
Wizzu 4:30 PM - 28 February, 2014
Quote:
Do you have pitch and time? As this has already been talked about and with pnt the gain is higher.
Not here. No difference at all in gain between PnT on or off. Nada.

I found the discussion there
serato.com
maybe the issue is system-specific or controller-specific. Very strange.
Ricky 305 4:46 PM - 28 February, 2014
actually i ran a few more test yesterday. if i actually disable the pitch and time plugin the gains return to normal how i had in ssl and sdj1.3 . But you have to disable it from the settings. not just turn it off in the virtual decks. also i tested this with vci-380 only. i did not get a chance to test with the ddjsx or sl3.
&Midge 5:04 PM - 28 February, 2014
Ricky, you seem to have a few control options for SDJ. When you connect the various controllers, in the setup > mixer (tab) can you turn off the db boosting by setting to 0db? or are they all boosted by 6db by default?
Wizzu 5:05 PM - 28 February, 2014
Quote:
But you have to disable it from the settings. not just turn it off in the virtual decks.
That's what I did. Zero gain difference. Who knows what's the culprit with what you guys experience. Seems extremely odd.
Wizzu 5:08 PM - 28 February, 2014
Quote:
in the setup > mixer (tab) can you turn off the db boosting by setting to 0db? or are they all boosted by 6db by default?
Wait, is it something else than an EQ boost setting with some controllers? With Twitch and DDJ-SX at least, this is only that: EQ boost setting. Not a main output boost. Doesn't change the output volume in the least until you boost mids or bass.
Ricky 305 5:08 PM - 28 February, 2014
Quote:
When you connect the various controllers, in the setup > mixer (tab) can you turn off the db boosting by setting to 0db? or are they all boosted by 6db by default?


i will have to check this. i do not have my controllers with me.
LJ_WOOLSEY 5:19 PM - 28 February, 2014
Isnt that setting just for how mich your hi mid bass egs can boost when turning past 12pclock?
Wizzu 5:23 PM - 28 February, 2014
Quote:
Isnt that setting just for how mich your hi mid bass egs can boost when turning past 12pclock?
IMO yes, exactly (as per my post above).
&Midge 5:27 PM - 28 February, 2014
Quote:
Isnt that setting just for how mich your hi mid bass egs can boost when turning past 12pclock?


Maybe, i'm not sure. But why do SL2 users like myself have this option as the software doesn't know what my mixer is doing? Should this not be a disabled option for me?
LJ_WOOLSEY 6:04 PM - 28 February, 2014
^ yes should say it should. Bug i guess
&Midge 7:38 PM - 28 February, 2014
Cheers for clearing that EQ boosting up for me Wizzu and Woolsey, i've been thinking that the EQ's are being boosted within the software before the signal hits my mixer......
Scottie A 12:19 PM - 2 March, 2014
Ive have been having the exact same volume problems. I'd say nearly all tracks analyzed in Serato DJ are far too loud. They hit the Reds everytime!!!! The same track loaded in Serato Scratch SL2 barely hits the yellows. I have SL2 running into channel 1 + 4 of my DDJ-SX using 2 Pioneer CDJ 1000 mk3's. I have tried analyzing both files in SSL and SDJ and tried them using both my DDJ-SX and SSL and CDJ's and my old 2 channel X5 mixer with the same results. The tracks always Hit the Reds using Serato DJ 1.6 :( :( :(
Scottie A 12:19 PM - 2 March, 2014
Ive have been having the exact same volume problems. I'd say nearly all tracks analyzed in Serato DJ are far too loud. They hit the Reds everytime!!!! The same track loaded in Serato Scratch SL2 barely hits the yellows. I have SL2 running into channel 1 + 4 of my DDJ-SX using 2 Pioneer CDJ 1000 mk3's. I have tried analyzing both files in SSL and SDJ and tried them using both my DDJ-SX and SSL and CDJ's and my old 2 channel X5 mixer with the same results. The tracks always Hit the Reds using Serato DJ 1.6 :( :( :(