if you guys are only at the point of just considering implimenting some point in the future then sorry im returning or selling my unit. i dont have the time to wait another few years for such basic essential functionality in ur software. it took u over 2 yrs to inmprove ur fx (which is now done by another company). uv upgraded ur software but cutback on a simple essential that was already in ur old software itch yet u guys use fancy words when ur advertise this s**t. must be how things r done in nz. ill be sure to avoid u guys in future.

firstly thanks for replaying so quickly thats a rarity here so big plus :). secondly, so the pitcvh is still working at 0.01 but the visual values only show up to 0.1? well why didnt u guys say so! there r a few threads on this here n there but none of them have been answered. also if it is working like itch then shouldnt it be an easy fix to put in ur next update. its just a value displayed in the gui? could u guys have an option to change it on and off in the settings so u can keep both crowds happy? for example leave it unchanged as it is for 0.1 display. but for 0.01 display setting make the overall pitch slider font much smaller to fit the txt into the same space. thats better than not having any choice at all! that way the guys who like what they have can retain it. and ppl like me can squint and see the smaller values. id rather that than no option at all.

with the new information ill hang on to my sx for now :) but how long will it take to get an update that shows the value? its a relief to hear that it still works at that value but its difficult to control such a precise value. my turntables iv owned it the past worked fine without any display but the resolution was 0.05 not 0.01.

please please give the added option of having very small font slider details as an optional setting to appear somewhere/anywhere on the screen. if not unfortunately ill have to change products to an s1 again which i unfortunately got rid off to be able to afford the sx upgrade. or could give up djing untill i can afford cdjs or something similar.

anyway thanks for ur reply man.

good to hear. see if the coders can ad a switch between display modes. the second mode will just cram the pitch in the same place just with a smaller font. hope thats not to difficult. cool let me know how long a fix will take if it does take as ill prob be making a decision on what i do from here and dont want to wait too long if i want to keep my chances of a return with my retailer. once again cheers.

I think that a major issue with a lot of people here. The don't realize the program has a higher resolution than whats displayed on the screen.

Wow!!! Just wow!! Unbelievable.

It really bothers you that much you would consider returning such an awesome piece of equipment? Really?? Funny how it was a MAJOR drama for you & you made out like you haven't been able to do any mixes on your DDJ-SX then when Aaron said nothing has changed at all except for the visual feedback you're all like "Oh why didn't you say so! bla, blah, blah.." Let me guess - you're about 15 right? The kind of person who gets worked up & really upset and goes around attacking everyone & everything because you're upset before actually looking into the problem or seeing if it actually exists! LOL 0.01 pitch adjustment.. Oh, and I doubt your reatailer will take it back & give you a refund as there's nothing wrong with the unit - you have simply changed your mind.

I know, i know :) Glad to see I wasn't the only one thinking that.. I just got mine yesterday & I'm a Serato Forums noob (but not a noob when it comes to DJing!) & I didn't want to get off to a bad start by digging into a fellow user but it seemed liked a big whinge to me without any substance! "beatmatching is now impossible" :D :D :D Bahahaha! And then he's like "why didn't you say so!" lol..probably doesn't even have one - just spends all day looking at the net & comparing specs of controllers and comparing them to eachother theoretically - Fantasy Baseball for Controllers!

dude no offence iv been mixing before the cdjs became the standard. then i went to cdj 2000s but had to sell them for an s1 due to financial issues.

now my gripe was that on the display the resolution only 0.1. so when i was mixing i only thought i could make 0.1 adjustmants.

aron then informed me that that u can actualy make 0.01 adjustments but serato only displays 0.1. so i can techniclay use the resolution just have no idea as thers no display.

beatmatchihing with 0.1 is impossible. its not enough adustment to get tracks to hold for more than 20 seconds neatly.

majoritity of the ppl here use sync and with that the program makes the adjustment for u. u guys probably dont realise but when u press sync and use see the value of a particular deck move to lets say 1.2 its actuly 1.27 etc. its just that it is not displayed. this is where ppl who manualy beatmatch like me thought that they only iused the extra precisw resolution for the sync buttons and not the pitch slider too.

aron, please feel free to chip in here, its not a great feeling to be attacked on ur support forum without any knowledge or basis and thinks like omg i sit n look at specs all day.... infact im studing a sound engineeeing degree and iv been tougt how specifications mean nothing in so many senarios in the audio and comouter world. for example a output of a device of 18hz - 24khz means nothing but its on every box. theres no power value per freq. even pcs a simple 2.4ghz means nothing. gota dig into the architecture and benchmarks for an idea. unfortualtly the dj scene(not the studio/music production) does not have such basic levels of comparison amd investigation in their reviews and information avail.

now iv owned turntables, djm and cdj 2000 and even the last controler the s1. so im in a pretty good position to figure out what me needs r. the problem was as aron said that they did not document this issue properly and ever post about this on serato and even pioneer forums have been left blank and no official tech or rep has responded.

i remember being attacked last time because i thought itchs eqs were too muddy. some guy was like no its not. using the prefound perceptiual art and science of "i like it so therefore its good". well if ur stuck in that well good for u man. but its good to ge out of that well try some hardware eqs on pjoneer and allen n heath mixers, get some basic education or do some reserch. if u talk to a professional and successfull person in the audio indusrty im sure ull find that they say that even after 20 yrs they r still learning and growing both atristiclay and techniclaly.

oh also the retailer may not take it back but theres ebay. might just save up for something sort of affordable like cdj and djm 850s. id be loosing money tho prob a few hundred.

and as for me not owning one. check out my other support thread thats currently open. i actualy uploaded a demonstartion video of the problem with my sx which u can all see......

@ Singhka; I've being Dj'ing for over 20 years now and have gone through a lot of gear, from belt driven decks to technics to a vestax vci 380. If you search in the vci380 forums you'll see I raised the same question. I agree with you fully and despite your spelling (lol, jokes), I support everything you've stated and conveyed fairly on this string. With absolutely no disrespect intended, there will always be people on here pointing fingers to the ones who embrace this new tech who only want to see it improve. It's surprising to see what I'm sure is some really talented DJs quick to throw stones from glass houses, its not conducive to anything positive for anyone involved. I'm sure the developers appreciate the time you have taken to air your views which are completely relevant!
Peace.

thanks man thats nice to hear :) same i mean no disrespect to others and im not against things like sync but i was rasing the issue that because the sync features r common that should not mean ppl who chose not to rely on them have no manual control. its a little like the boeing and airbus debate lol. to their credit serato didnt actualy remove sdjs ability to beatmatch manualy becuase the pitch works at 0.0x. however the removed a humans ability to use that resoution to beatmatch by oy displaying 0.x. its now up to a gui update add the extra digit. and also this issue was not documented and initial as seen with othe posts on here n pioneer, there was never any responce from officials giving the impression that they wanted us to ignore n forget it or something like that.

and yes im known for by useless spelling lol. im also typing on a phone sometimes. 20yrs is a long time! i only got into gear when the cdj 1000 were coming out lol but i stuck to turntables but did use a djm mixer. lucky u djing must have been really fun with those belt driven decks!

++++1

@ singhka and Rhadesh

I think we've been over this enough now. Feel free to carry on, it's your thread after all. I'm afraid I don't have anything more to contribute here though.



Sorry to hear that guys. Good luck out there :)

lol that post was from april 2013, but thanks for getting back to me!!!! i sold the sx back in june last yr for some cdjs!!

see on one hand we have scott saying please if theres enough 'noise' over requests you guys will listen and make plans.

on the other hand you are saying that we can carry on, but nothing will happen....

i think i know what the problem is:

something that gavin said on the pioneer forums:

"As I'm sure you know, Pioneer does not make advanced announcements about products that may or may not be in development. As it currently stands, it appears Native Instruments are controlling their own hardware development.

Its not a simple case of picking a software to build a product around - the software developer has to license the manufacturer to make that product. So if Native say no dice then Pioneer can't do anything about that."

im assuming lack of competition to push or influence developers.

Haha, so it was :)

Scott and I are both correct. Feature requests that get a lot of support in the Feature Request area, definitely get attention. Help requests that are actually feature requests where every aspect of the debate has been covered don't continue to get attention for time immemorial I'm afraid.

Cheers
Aaron

ahhh thanks for that so ill prob start one there cos im keen to get sz! :)

Haha, yeah, I've heard that a fair bit over the last week :)

btw does the sz have a more precise pitch slider than the sx? does it have more travel? or is it the same?

and since the sz is marketed as "pro" gear and costs over twice as much as the sx, will the gui be any different just for this controller so we can see even a 0.05 display like on cdjs and this is marketed to have similar feel to cdj 2000 nexus setup.

if not then will the sync algorithm be updated to be more accurate. all the elctro pop music i had synced accuratly, all the melodic progressive house i had eg music from silk royal and so on drifted off on the sx.

if all of the above fails, can the sz hardware be mapped to other more friendly software eg traktor?

cheers!

Unfortunately not... on any count :)

- The Tempo Slider is the same length and sensitivity as the SX.
- The BPM display in the virtual deck is the same for all hardware.
- The Sync algorithm is the same. Are you using smart sync with beatgrids? If so, there shouldn't be any drift.
- The DDJ-SZ won't be able to be mapped to any other software.

I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear, but the truth is always a good idea I reckon :) I have raised the BPM decimal places with the Products team so they can consider it moving forward - no promises though!

Aaron

hey thanks aaron for ur quick reply!

however its not the bpm decimal point we were looking for thats fine as it is. i meant the PITCH POSITION decimal places.

so when u move the pitch slider the pitch positon value shows more precice incriments at 0.00 eg cdjs use 0.02 and s1 with itch used to show 0.01. could u also let the product team know it was the pitch value i was after and not the bpm value, that would be great and would really suit the sz being a pro controller!

cheers again!

maybe that explains the lack of action. u guys misunderstood me asking for the BPM value of decimal places when i was ACTUALY talking about wanting the PITCH POSITION value of decimal places.

its was perfect on the s1 with serato itch! even if u guys use a smaller font size for the lower last decimal point value.

also i thought u guys had recognised it already, scot said on the 1/100 pitch request thread that quote:

"Fair enough mate, thanks for the feedback!

Hopefully we can change this, as I know there is a lot of request for it. I will re-up the feature request of this issue and hopefully it can make it's way into a future release :)

Regards"

so i thought serato had aknowledged the issue and that it was important to a large number of people, so it would be on the way to being implemented.

btw if this update needs funding id be happy to help and donate for the programming time.

We have acknowledged it, but it is not that important to a large number of people. This is what we have been trying to say to you. It is not that important to a large number of people, which means the priority to change this is not that high.

Get more people to want the feature change = more chance of it happening.

Posting over and over again in every single thread (even unrelated threads) about this feature NEEDING to be changed because you want it to = not going to get very far.

I have explained to you many times what is needed to get a feature request considered for a feature version release, so if you follow what I have told you will have more chance of your feature seeing a release.

Regards

thats absolutely fine scott, however it does fly in the face of u saying: "Hopefully we can change this, as I know there is a lot of request for it".

so anyway how many people is a large amount of people.

if u think im spamming then look at the threads iv posted on with this issue throughout my entire account period!

so far iv posted on:

pitch resolution by singhka - (the thread i started about a year ago and didnt come back to till now)

Pitch precision to 1/100 instead of 1/10 by OOKAMI - (only posted one message which was today today!)

INTRODUCING THE PIONEER DDJ-SZ FOR SERATO DJ blog - (i thought is a valid post, and if u read it initially all i asked was that if the so called pro cdj-2000 style emulating controller would give me another number to display on my screen!)

now if u guys dont want to implement it thats fine! im just trying to make a suggestion and sell you my viewpoint to convince you!

the unfortunate thing is ni have closed of their software with hardware designs to themselves apparently according to Gavin at Pioneer. i guess if there was competition and pioneer controllers were on both platforms per controller, there would be a greater reaction by the software companies between customers.

also how many people counts as significant for you guys?

cos iv found multiple threads a requests for this not just me thats the thing that drove me to push for it one more time. here a few:

serato.com

serato.com

serato.com

serato.com

serato.com

thats what i thought and smart sync works great on simple electro/pop/comercial music.

however what happens is when u listen to music that is complex such as melodic progressive house, progressive trance, (im talking tracks from artists like ad brown, jacob henery, vitodito, talamanca, blood & groves, schodt, terry de libra, shingo nakamura... etc) then what happens is that the software has trouble finding the peaks of the kick drum due to all the layers and complexity and probably frequency content of the arrangement of the track. so what it does it trys to keep the peaks in sync but it actually holds the track not precicly on the kick drum but on either side of it.

and when using simple sync the bpms on somet racks are incorrect by a little bit etc, if some tracks are 130 bpm itll come up as 130.1....

so for the style of music im playing sync is not relaible, thats why i left serato for some cdj -850s and a djm 850 so i could actually control the pitch.

if the decimal point of the pitch is out of the question then why not see if u can improve the sync algorithms so the sync works reliably across the board with all types of steady tempo 4/4 music.

again thanks aaron! :)

gone quiet here again after i asked about ur sync algorithms....?

I'm not really sure what you mean by this man.

If you use Smart Sync and have good beatgrids, your tracks will lock and never drift. If you are using Simple Sync, then your tracks will be tempo (or transient) matched and will drift over time, but Simple Sync is designed that way for those who like the flexibility to match for the mix and then adjust as necessary.

Cheers
Aaron

exactly my point, smart sync is dependent on beatgrids. however when serato analyses and detects beatgrids, for certain types of music it gets them wrong. and what will happen is the tracks will lock, but not precisely in line and on top of the middle of the kick drums.

its possible to adjust beagrids, but its not practical having to adjust beatgrids which time a song not analysed properly. thats what mixing on ableton was like, all the prep and warping done beforehand.

and my again if simple sync is there so we can also adjust and make corrections in the software, how but giving as the 0.00 pitch resolution so we can make the corrections, this is my point from day one. i know u guys cater to the laptop crowd how are fairly dependent on syncing or using visual grids on the screen, however it doesnt not always get it right.

thats why cdjs that do come with sync options, still the same pitch resolution they have always had. just like with itch.