Ive got the same problem, both tracks have the same BPM and when running together will slowly start to run out. It also does it with an Autoloop setting activated. Not very good if your doing long mixes with 2-3 or 4 tracks,

Hey Sodom,

Thanks for getting in touch,



If you are not using SYNC then tracks can fall out of time with each other.
-- Not all tracks stay locked to a grid, they can swing and the BPMs can slightly change over time, it all depends on how the tune was recorded.

Imagine mixing with vinyl decks, you have to slightly adjust the pitch as you mix.

If you use SMART/SYNC then Serato looks at the GRIDLINES, so if the tunes transients(kick drum) are lined up with gridlines, tracks will be locked and wont full out of sync.

Im interested to test some of these tunes out though, are you able to attach a couple files to this thread? I will do some further testing here and get back to you.

Thanks :)

Hi Jamie

I have just been testing a few things out with various tracks and 2 tracks running the same BPM, then activating a auto loop 8 will still start to run out if left to run. I have tried this on numerous tracks, I have also tried altering the beat grid and tracks will still need altering. The only time tracks will stay in time is with the Sync enabled. You can also see by the gridlines that they are starting to go out of sync. I think this is something to do with the program as the same tracks running with Tracktor are fine. I have used all types of turntables and you don,t have to adjust the pitch or touch the platter as much as you do on the software. This is very very difficult when i like to do long 2-3 track mixes, which i can,t do at the minute.

Cheers

Paul

Hey, yes i try to load a few tracks!! but why do the same tracks work together with cdj´s but not with serato dj? when i am using smart sync or simple sync i have no problem! they run perfect together until they are ending. so more than 6 or 7 minutes!!! as long as the tracks are!
When i don`t use the sync button it doesn´t work!
I try to explane something: I start with a track (141bpm) and want to mix it with track 2 (140bpm) then i push the sync buttons and both are running with 141bpm perfect together!
when i disable the sync function (i push shift and the sync button) and start again to mix them by manual sync (with the tempo fader) and without any auto sync function then it works also perfect! but it doesn´t work if i start a new session without using the sync buttons! only if i once used it!
I hope it´s not too difficult to follow me!
anyway thanks for helping!!

Hi Sodom
I am going to give what you have just said a try. I will let you know how i get on. It is very disappointing when we have spent a lot of money a controller which has been made to work with the software

Hey Pault49!! yeah thats true, i love to play with the controller and to have my own equipment at the parties! but when it doesn`t work as it should its really disappointing!
i want to mix without the sync button! but to be creative and be sure that you can concentrate on using the features is only possible by using it! cause of running out.
oh man! greetz

I have just tried what you said and the same occurs. If you mix 2 tracks together they will run out, but if you activate sync on both tracks then de-activate sync they will stay in time.

yes exactly!!! i´m loading a second track. lets see what jamie can tell us!!

The 2 tracks will run together without sync fine even when you restart them without the sync enabled, as long as you have synced them before. But if you eject them then reload them they will run out again. I have noticed the BPM read out stays blue after you de-activate the sync and only when the BPM stays blue will they stay in sync with the sync de-activated. Hopefully Jamie can help and i understand that things that are new will have issues, but i think this is something major for DJing.

Keep in touch Sodom and let me know how you get on with this problem.

Paul

Thanks Paul! yes i keep on trying things, i tell you if i find something!!
lets keep in touch

all the best
sodom

I would guess that this would point to the fact that we are only dealing with 1 decimal point with the BPM readout...I have to deal with my tracks drifting after time when I use my CDJ 900's, which also are confined to 1 decimal point display. This is how I see it.....example if you have track 1 that's at 141.6 BPM and your cued track 2 is a 140.4 BPM song. Naturally you will adjust the BPM of track 2 to match track 1....now both tracks are at 141.6 BPM and you are ready to drop in track 2 to begin your mix/transition. Now both tracks are playing and are aligned perfectly, but a few seconds later you noticed that track 2 is drifting....hmmm. Now let's do some math and hopefully this will explain it all.

If you recall:

Track 1 = 141.6 BPM
Track 2 = 140.4 BPM

Now if Serato analyzed and provided BPM's to a hundreth decimal point your songs BPM's would actually show that:

Track 1 = 141.64
Track 2 = 140.41

Therefore when you manually matched track 2 (140.4) to track 2 (141.6)...in actuality you brought track 2 to only match track 1 to a tenth of a decimal point, leaving a four hundreths of 1 BPM as error that you as the user won't see.

Okay... now track 1 is really 141.64 but serato will see it as 141.6 because it's rounding it down to the nearest 1/10th.

Keep in mind you may have 2 tracks where the BPM's are reading "141 and 141"....however this translates in Serato as "141.0 and 141.0" which will require no adjustment by the user other that dropping the tracks in at the right time...right? Incorrect!! If Serato provided the ".XX" decimal point format your tracks are really "140.6 and 141.4"...keeping in mind that it rounds it up or down to the nearest 1/10th...hence 141.0 and 141.0.

Now if you do the math you will see that you have a huge variation (8/10th's) almost an entire beat off in a scenario where we though they were perfectly aligned....therefore your tracks will eventually drift and user interaction is required to keep your songs beatmatched for long mixes. Also keep in mind that Traktor displays BPMs in the ".XX" decimal format, therefore you didn't experience this issue in Traktor. In addition when using SYNC in Serato it works simply because the computer alglorithm is matching both songs precisely.


Hope this helps and made sense!!!

TJ

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all this information, and I really appreciate all the testing you have done!



So we all agree there is always going to be a slight margin or error when it comes to two tracks beat matched manually using a pitch fader. You will have to slightly adjust things to while in the mix. But I do agree with you, it should not be as hard/harder then turntables, so I will definitely be looking into this further.





This is very interesting, I will do some further tests Monday and get back to you all in regards to this. Thanks for your efforts testing!



Hey TJ, thanks for your comments. You are limited to seeing one decimal place in Serato DJ and this could be causing the issue, I am not 100% sure but I think even though you cant see the second decimal place, its still being calculated. I will find out some further information on Monday and get back to you.

Thanks :)

NP Serato,

Sorry...Wasn't able to quote or link a thread requesting a 2 decimal point format from the Serato DJ Feature Request forum because of the same issue the OP is having....but here you go:




DJ Da Juan1:29 AM - 3 December, 2012

May I please put a request in for the BPM displayed to be 2 decimal places instead of 1 as it currently is .
The reason for me requesting this is because I currently still have my Vestax VCI-300MKII and when I match the BPMS of both tracks with my VCI-300 by +/-.02 the songs mix SO MUCH better than with my Pioneer DDJ-SX.
I am always having to bend (speed up/down) my tracks CONSTANTLY with the DDJ-SX. Where with my VCI, I drop the second track and it just goes together so well instantly and for me effortless (scratching and or cue wise) .
I never have this problem AT ALL with my Vestax VCI-300MKII.
I am hoping this is the simple cause for my troubles.

All my tracks have been Platinum Noted, and analysed by both softwares (Itch and Serato DJ).
And of course the same songs were tested with both units and with both softwares.

Any response would be greatly appreciated

Hey Tj!
I think i can follow you but with my cdj`s 200 i have no decimal and it works perfect!
if i want to go up or down 1 bpm i go +/- 0,7% (beatrange from 140 to 148)
but in serato dj it doesn't work with 0,7%. not with 0,8% and not with 0,6%

with cdj´s its not 0,75% or something its exactly 0,7% and i don`t have to pitch up or down at 99,9% of the tracks i play! one more decimal at the tempo pitch could help!
I am happy that i am not alone with this problem but i am not happy that the problem exists!
;) hope to find the true reason, i think we are getting closer! or is it really the hardware????

go on!!!
beats and greetz!!!
Sodom

You guys are not alone.. I having same issues... when the tracks are all same speeds as the serato showing me.. and beatmatched, after 10 seconds, droped track starting slowly drifting aways wich causing out matched beats... so i have to push forward or backward plater to match them again... its getting quite annoying... as i cant built up the set properly.
What i noticed that let say if ur track starting to drift forwards... i just slightly moved pitch fader (without changing bpm`s wich serato shows, i mean they still be same) the drifting track starts drifting away slower.
So i guess the solutoin is in what @thorissr saying.

More over i found another thread here with similar problem serato.com
Cmon Serato we need a fix

At the end of the day this is a controller that has been made to seamlessly integrate with the software for DJing and at the moment it does not do that. Most of all this is the most important part of DJing. Once more and more people discover this BIG problem, i personally think it will drive the converted back to Tracktor and other software. This also was not a cheap lower range controller.

Can we please have this big issue fixed

serato.com

Seems to be a lot of unhappy DDJ-SX on the above thread as well

I think it can be easy fixed.... but the question is time, how soon they gonna fix it...
I dont want to sell this controller tbh as i loving built quality of pioneer and i am pretty fancy with serato dj.

Ditto

i agree!!

Hey Guys,

I have done some further testing here and I have come across similar results,

1. If tracks have not been synced and you manually beat match them using the pitch fader they slowly go out over a period of time.

2. If the same two tracks are SYNCED then sync is removed completely, the same two tracks will stay in time until the track has finished playing.

I have logged this as a bug now, and our developers will look into it further.
At this stage I still dont have any information in regards to the decimal places.

-- Its possible the second decimal place causes this issue as you cant see the finer increments when adjusting the pitch. But I cannot confirm this yet, so please hold tight.

Again, thanks for everyones efforts with testing / troubleshooting, I really appreciate this information. I will get back to you all again when I get some further information.

Thanks for your patience.

Cheers Jamie, at least we know its a bug now, i am happy to sit tight until it gets sorted now.

Thanks again

Paul

nice one Jamie !!!

Hi Jamie, any news yet

Hey Paul,

Nothing new...

This issue got logged less then a week ago. Its now on the list to get looked into further.

I will keep you all posted.

Thanks.

Any news yet Jamie?

do you think it will take long for this to be sorted Jamie,

Hey Paul,

Its been logged. It gets put on a priority list for the developers to look into further.
-- This is the best I can do for you and this issue.
-- I don't have timeframe information.

Keep an eye on the Serato newsletter that gets sent out.
This is the first place we announce any upgrades / releases / etc etc...

Thanks.

Any word on how the developers are getting on with this issue Jamie

Hey Pault49,

Sorry I don't have anything further information at this point in time.

Thanks.

anything new here?

A lot people have said it would just get forgot about and it looks like they were right. Might be worth contacting Pioneer direct as this software is letting down a good controller

Hi guys,

this is technically not a bug, but was a spec change.

I know that is not the answer you want to hear, but it may be good for you to know that this is being discussed based on the feedback we got since, and will potentially change back in a future version. I can't provide a date though.

As a workaround for now, if you don't want to match by ear and don't want to use sync either, i recommend the following

- On the target deck, move the pitch fader slightly until the last digit jumps, e.g from 90.0 to 90.1
- Move the pitch fader on the new deck until the same happens. They should now be as close as they can be. (For the new deck, this must be in the same direction, i.e. jumping from 90.0 to 90.1. NOT: jumping from 90.2 to 90.1)

The explanation why this workaround actually works is that we do track much finer pitch changes given that the hardware is capable of sending them. We only currently don't display them.

So you use the jumping of the one digit as a reference when you are close to the end of that pitch value. e.g. 90.07, 90.08, 90.09 (they all show as 90.0) , next value is 90.10 which will show as 90.1

I hope that is a little bandaid for you until the requested change makes it into a release.
Sorry i don't have better news so far.

I will close this one now as a feature request.

Cheers

Karl Y