Serato Software Feature Suggestions

What features would you like to see in Serato software?

BPM display. Please have it diplay 2 decimal places

DJ Da Juan 6:29 AM - 3 December, 2012
May I please put a request in for the BPM displayed to be 2 decimal places instead of 1 as it currently is .
The reason for me requesting this is because I currently still have my Vestax VCI-300MKII and when I match the BPMS of both tracks with my VCI-300 by +/-.02 the songs mix SO MUCH better than with my Pioneer DDJ-SX.
I am always having to bend (speed up/down) my tracks CONSTANTLY with the DDJ-SX. Where with my VCI, I drop the second track and it just goes together so well instantly and for me effortless (scratching and or cue wise) .
I never have this problem AT ALL with my Vestax VCI-300MKII.
I am hoping this is the simple cause for my troubles.

All my tracks have been Platinum Noted, and analysed by both softwares (Itch and Serato DJ).
And of course the same songs were tested with both units and with both softwares.

Any response would be greatly appreciated
signs 6:40 PM - 3 December, 2012
if you are matching by useing the BPM Meter, why don't you just use SYNC? That would be much easier for you
XRM5 9:56 PM - 3 December, 2012
It used to be there, it should be there again.

+1
Nogasi 10:54 PM - 3 December, 2012
They could also put the option to remove the BPM
ivan zilch 6:31 AM - 4 December, 2012
we would need at least to display the current pitch position in 2 decimal places

at the moment with the DDJ-SX's lowest setting +/- 8% the pitch slider is too loose and its hard to tell where exactly the pitch slider is

EG. in pioneer CJD series it would show pitch 6.12% (2 decimal places) instead of 6.1 (thats how it is now in serato dj and ddj sx)
Simon Love Carter 2:27 PM - 4 December, 2012
+1 I would love to have 2 decimals. It was so wasy to mix manually and match the perfect bpm (for radio shows especially)
antlover 11:29 PM - 4 December, 2012
+1 absolute essential
CalVic 12:25 AM - 5 December, 2012
I agree with this 100%

I have to pitch bend every so often as well with the DDJ-SX
LJ_WOOLSEY 1:04 AM - 5 December, 2012
It was in itch so +1
SH3PARD 9:56 PM - 23 December, 2012
Quote:
+1 I would love to have 2 decimals. It was so wasy to mix manually and match the perfect bpm (for radio shows especially)

+1
Simon Love Carter 12:33 AM - 24 December, 2012
check it out.
doing the upgrade is so easy... for GUI team

img846.imageshack.us
SH3PARD 12:38 AM - 24 December, 2012
Quote:
check it out.
doing the upgrade is so easy... for GUI team

img846.imageshack.us

like
djelover 7:41 PM - 26 December, 2012
+1
TheOne Andre 4:47 PM - 2 June, 2013
I tested Serato DJ today and i must agree with all here.
It´s not so easy to get the same BPM on both decks in ITCH, but when u have it, there is no more hand on the pitch for the mix.
In DJ, i have all the time do the pitch thing and the traxx are runing out of sync :(

Yes Autosync is a way... but i dont want to use it... it´s not like a pro :)
So please give use the 2 decimal back in the next update, thanks!

Greats Andre
TheOne
phatbob 12:09 PM - 3 June, 2013
Quote:
needing 2 decimal points on my pitch display is a way... but I dont want to use it.. it's not like a pro :)
signs 12:28 PM - 3 June, 2013
Quote:
Yes Autosync is a way... but i dont want to use it... it´s not like a pro :)


But looking at the BPM Meter all the time is?!?
Mark Quest 4:58 AM - 6 June, 2013
Quote:


Yes Autosync is a way... but i dont want to use it... it´s not like a pro :)
So please give use the 2 decimal back in the next update, thanks!



So you don't want to press a button to sync your tracks up, but you're happy for a computer program to do the work for you so you only need to ensure the track you're mixing in matches the BPM exactly of the current playing track? Is this not a primitive form of Sync? It's not like a pro, that's for sure..
what would happen if you tried to mix 2 songs & had to rely on just your ears to adjust the tempo so it beatmatches? that's really how the PRO's do it champ.

Keep on posing yo ;)
Mark Quest 5:00 AM - 6 June, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
needing 2 decimal points on my pitch display is a way... but I dont want to use it.. it's not like a pro :)


Oh.. I see what you did there

Kudos ;)
Felonyruckus 8:30 AM - 6 June, 2013
Quote:


Yes Autosync is a way... but i dont want to use it... it´s not like a pro :)
So please give use the 2 decimal back in the next update, thanks!

Greats Andre
TheOne



HAHAHAHA i recall pros don't use the BPM. Guys do you remember ever DJing without a computer on these things called turntable with black things with grooves in them called records?

guys that NEED 2 decimal places probably want automix too
DJ RisG 7:34 AM - 22 July, 2013
+1
This suggestion goes hand in hand with the following thread
serato.com
If you can pitch more precise you need a more precise display
Pault49 9:48 PM - 22 July, 2013
i remember turntables felony i love them, the point is to use the sx to its full potential i.e 3-4 decks, loops, effects and samples you need the software to hold time of all these things, and with one decimal point and without using the sync (which i don,t use) doing the above can,t be done.
Felonyruckus 12:40 AM - 23 July, 2013
you want 2 decimal places because you want "to use the sx to it's full potential" yet won't use sync. If you want to use "3-4 deck loops, effects and samples" then use what's already built into the SX, use sync and don't worry about 2 decimals...why because it doesn't need to be added and you can have your level of accuracy as long as your beat grid is all good. Also, if you remember turntables then you would appreciate what's already in the program rather than contemplate what is not.
Pault49 9:47 PM - 24 July, 2013
you have a point, but my point is i don,t want to use sync, 1210,s didn,t have sync and if it had 2 decimal places you would not have to use sync, and it would make the whole software more usable. Not everyone is going to agree or be happy, but surely it would,t be such a hardship for Serato to put in a 2nd decimal place in, then everyone would have the option to either use or not use the sync. At the moment that option is not available.
Shumi 5:56 PM - 25 July, 2013
+1
acemc 10:43 PM - 28 July, 2013
+1
This is more than just a display request actually.
For those talking about using the bpm reading or sync function,
your arguments are really null & void if the software is changing the pitch in the increments of 0.1 instead of 0.01 (depending on the range obviously). If you move the slide 1mm but the software's resolution isn't fine enough, you gonna be "all hands on decks" all the time.
After trying your best, but the tracks are still drifting, you gonna look at the screen to see whats going on...... but right now, that doesn't help.
Pault49 9:04 PM - 29 July, 2013
perfectly put acemc
Simon Love Carter 10:26 PM - 29 July, 2013
this tread will continue forever! Change that damn bpm display resolution. No one will complain about it!
Pault49 8:55 PM - 3 August, 2013
Still nothing happening on this yet?
Menace 2:23 AM - 5 August, 2013
+1 for 2 decimals
Simon Love Carter 9:56 AM - 9 August, 2013
No 2 decimals, no 6% on pitch range, no v7's support, no more fxs, no day mode, no quantized loops, no blue color for played tracks....... no nothing! We want some from you guys!
BCast 4:43 AM - 14 August, 2013
+1
Ultimate Patu 7:09 AM - 12 September, 2013
+1
rfnv 10:11 AM - 13 September, 2013
can we pleease, pleeease have 6% pitch back at least on the ddj-s1? the lack of 6% pitch and the pitch LEDs being inverted are the only reasons why i still stick with ITCH.
DJ GrimeTime 5:35 AM - 18 September, 2013
+1
DJVaage 9:54 PM - 18 September, 2013
All you guys complaining about people not being real Djs because they want to see 2 decimals for their bpm need to really read acemc's post. He is spot on on what is the big issue here.

I've been used to beatmatch manually my whole career as a DJ, meaning I don't use the sync button but set the pitch manually. I've owned a DDJ-SX for 3 months now and before this, I'm most accustomed to using CDJs. The one thing that has kept annoying me with Serato so far has been that my tracks keep slipping apart (and even faster when looping). This issue has really been bugging me as I feel I've been more busy with the decks and pitch than ever before. In all my years as a DJ, I have always relied on my ears more than BPM counters as I know they could display the wrong bpm so the biggest problem here is not that the UI shows me 2 decimals for the bpm itself (even though that can be a great tool to speed up a DJs workflow) but that the pitch is working with a resolution of 2 decimals.

CDJ-1000s for instance, don't even show 1 decimal in their BPM but the tempo does show and work with 2 decimals in resolution.

As I have been frustrated over this issue for some time, I have started looking into the possibilities of midi mapping my DDJ-SX to other DJ software such as VDJ or Traktor as I have seen a lot on the internet about other DJs successfully mapping their DDJ-SX to other software.

A couple of days ago I was doing some mixing at home and there were 2 specific songs I simply could not beatmatch no matter how much I tried. They kept slipping apart constantly. I thought I'd try activating the sync button just to see if maybe the sync function works with "hidden" bpm data that I can't see. But even with sync active, the songs still slipped apart which proves to me that Serato is not working with a high enough resolution for their pitch.

I decided to test out the DDJ-SX with Traktor and tried to beatmatch the same two songs and it was a success. The beatmatching was done manually and without almost no effort as I could quickly set the pitch to a fine tuned setting that matched. In Traktor, they use 2 decimals for both bpm and pitch. If I was to move my pitch very very slightly, Traktor could show me pitch change of +0.04% while Serato might skip all the way to +0.1% (0.10%) So here I have used the exact same hardware and gotten two different results based on two different softwares. The positive side is that it's quite clear that there's nothing wrong with the hardware but Traktor is obviously far, far ahead of Serato as a software but I felt that the midi mapping changed too much for my taste to what I can do with my DDJ-SX which is why I don't want to change software. I am really hoping that Serato sees this problem and takes this seriously and fixes it.

This is obviously an issue that goes further than just an update to the UI as it is an issue of how the software handles the pitch bending. It is simply too loose. I don't feel the need to see 2 decimals in my bpm as I'm used to not having that accurate information from my past but I need the pitch to work on a resolution that even CDJs from 10 years back could.

I have even opened another post on this same issue:
serato.com


I really wish someone from Serato could confirm to us that they are working on this fix and how quickly we can expect to see it. This is a critical issue that needs to be addressed as it is one of the most fundamental features that should be in the software. Please stop prioritizing enhancements like effects in front of the fundamental issues that needs to be fixed.
Pault49 7:51 PM - 25 September, 2013
Spot on DjVaage, its seriously letting down Pioneers good hardware, might even be worth getting in touch with them about the issue.
acemc 7:24 AM - 26 September, 2013
As above, but something even more important.........
Is to give us this within the grid edit mode.
When editing beat grids you don't even get a single decimal!!! (120 - 121 - 122 etc..)
That is just plain WRONG!!
That in itself, just leaves waaay to much margin for error.
The grid editor is where it all begins.
LJ_WOOLSEY 7:40 AM - 26 September, 2013
Quote:
As above, but something even more important.........
Is to give us this within the grid edit mode.
When editing beat grids you don't even get a single decimal!!! (tel:120 - 121 - 122 etc..)
That is just plain WRONG!!
That in itself, just leaves waaay to much margin for error.
The grid editor is where it all begins.


+1 for this
Pault49 6:56 PM - 26 September, 2013
+1
Unit:E 7:58 AM - 29 September, 2013
+1
DP PEPITA 2:48 PM - 2 October, 2013
+1
Simon Love Carter 6:46 PM - 2 October, 2013
+1 +10 +100 how many plus signes I have to put here to show you how much we are concerned about?
Crazyraider 10:01 PM - 2 October, 2013
I have the same issue. Granted, before I got my DDJ-SX, I had a Hercules Mk2, which only had digital pitch adjustment (if I remember correctly, it used 0.16% increments), and that was too inaccurate for manual tempo adjustment. As such, before getting the SX and SDJ, I used tempo sync (not beat sync - I still had to manually beatmatch, I just had to have the software do tempo adjustments for me), which saved me a lot of grief (luckily, I can avoid the sync button like sin now). It isn't like SDJ shouldn't have 2-decimal point accuracy, either. It appears to analyze to the second decimal (you can see this by going to manually adjust the BPM value in the library). Traktor has that kind of accuracy, previous iterations (apparently) have that accuracy, even Mixxx (an open source DJ program) has it.

I constantly have loops slip out of sync with other tracks, and while I can minutely adjust the slider, I have no idea whether it's actually doing something or if I'm just imagining that it is having an effect. Increased accuracy is DEFINITELY needed here.


+1
Oktavian Putra Agusta 3:39 AM - 3 October, 2013
+1000 from DDJ-SX user here as there always some songs that drift apart when I beatmatch due to loose resolution.

And not even a single response from Serato Admin!
antwin73 1:42 PM - 7 October, 2013
Thank you guys for opening my eyes.

+1 for 2 decimals
+1 for quantized loops
+1 for pitch resolution

The bad is that no one from Serato seems to b interested.
Unit:E 8:41 AM - 8 October, 2013
Serato has shown interest in this in another thread devoted to it...in the feature request section.
Unit:E 8:41 AM - 8 October, 2013
BTW, +1
DJ Icee 9:20 AM - 8 October, 2013
I too would like to not only portrayed but also the opportunity to move two decimal places.
This function is missing me a lot!!!!!!!!!!
Always!! I have to manually every 5-10 seconds compared. And it makes very bad if you are mixing 3-4 songs together.

+1
spkrbx 5:51 AM - 21 October, 2013
Quote:
The one thing that has kept annoying me with Serato so far has been that my tracks keep slipping apart (and even faster when looping).

A couple of days ago I was doing some mixing at home and there were 2 specific songs I simply could not beatmatch no matter how much I tried. They kept slipping apart constantly. I thought I'd try activating the sync button just to see if maybe the sync function works with "hidden" bpm data that I can't see. But even with sync active, the songs still slipped apart which proves to me that Serato is not working with a high enough resolution for their pitch.


+1 I couldn't have explained this better. I hope this get fixed in the next update.
Unit:E 9:31 AM - 22 October, 2013
Quote:
A couple of days ago I was doing some mixing at home and there were 2 specific songs I simply could not beatmatch no matter how much I tried. They kept slipping apart constantly. I thought I'd try activating the sync button just to see if maybe the sync function works with "hidden" bpm data that I can't see. But even with sync active, the songs still slipped apart which proves to me that Serato is not working with a high enough resolution for their pitch.


Do either or both of the songs you were trying to beatmatch stay on their respective grids all the way through til the end? I have found that Serato analyzes most my tracks properly but a few came up slightly off. I had to slide the grid further in the song to keep the grid properly aligned. Once I did and it was saved, I had no problems beatmatching the track.

I do agree that we need 2 points after the decimal and tighter pitch resolution.
Mark Quest 10:01 AM - 22 October, 2013
have any of you guys noticed the discrepancy between the virtual deck's BPM & the sampler's BPM? The sampler will show as being xxx.17, yet the deck will show as being xxx.2! It's wasn't really that much of an issue until they changed how sync works in the new SDJ 1.5.1.. now it sucks balls :/
They need to implement another decimal point to have consistency across their software, otherwise it looks fragmented
DJCY 5:18 PM - 2 November, 2013
Yes, we need this feature on next release
dpetree 3:56 AM - 3 November, 2013
+1
DJ L1tn1ng 5:22 AM - 12 November, 2013
+1 and agree to have a REALLY fine-tuning in the grid editor.
Adrianotic 8:13 PM - 9 December, 2013
+1
Pault49 9:56 PM - 15 December, 2013
Yep, time to sort it out Serato
eSanto 8:53 PM - 27 December, 2013
+1
Pault49 9:30 PM - 13 January, 2014
Still Nothing,
Rhadesh 2:51 PM - 15 January, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
check it out.
doing the upgrade is so easy... for GUI team

img846.imageshack.us

like




+++++1
blackavenger 4:42 PM - 1 February, 2014
Quote:
+1
This is more than just a display request actually.
For those talking about using the bpm reading or sync function,
your arguments are really null & void if the software is changing the pitch in the increments of 0.1 instead of 0.01 (depending on the range obviously). If you move the slide 1mm but the software's resolution isn't fine enough, you gonna be "all hands on decks" all the time.
After trying your best, but the tracks are still drifting, you gonna look at the screen to see whats going on...... but right now, that doesn't help.

Word!!!
jay dyson 8:38 PM - 2 February, 2014
Totally agree with acemc's post, resolution isn't fine enough for tempo matching, on most controllers, if it's midi based, this is because it's got 128 possible values that can be used, so at +-8% that's 0.125% per step, so some tunes are impossible to match, real solution is to give us +-4% or 6%, as well as giving us the bpm to 2 decimal places, at least with the bpm at 2 decimal places you can mitigate the error between the 2 bpms by getting them as close as possible, whether you can match them perfectly or not.
Dj Bema 6:38 AM - 4 February, 2014
+ 1 for 2 decimals
Konka 8:37 PM - 5 February, 2014
+1

and really, how hard would this be to implement?

just put a toggle in the setup:

BPM counter decimal places
1: o
2: o

I mean there's tooones of room for the option,
that setup pane is so bare bones
Blackie Lox 9:23 PM - 7 February, 2014
Quote:
Totally agree with acemc's post, resolution isn't fine enough for tempo matching, on most controllers, if it's midi based, this is because it's got 128 possible values that can be used, so at +-8% that's 0.125% per step, so some tunes are impossible to match, real solution is to give us +-4% or 6%, as well as giving us the bpm to 2 decimal places, at least with the bpm at 2 decimal places you can mitigate the error between the 2 bpms by getting them as close as possible, whether you can match them perfectly or not.


In Traktor you can get a 0.01 pitch resolution on a MIDI controller at +/-8% so I don't consider the option of +/-4% or +/-6% as a "real solution". They just need to get it fixed...
jay dyson 2:41 AM - 11 February, 2014
I've been looking into this some more and I want the freedom to actually be able to tempo match correctly by hand, the major issue is that a lot of controllers are only outputting 0-127 midi controller values on the pitch control, which using +-8% gives you a pitch resolution of 0.125%, I'm not entirely sure what the solution would be here, +-4 or 6% would be one solution, having a moveable zero point would be another, so for instance, you have one tune playing at X tempo at 0 pitch set to 4% and another that needs X tempo + 4.5%, you'll never tempo match them, but being able to set your 0 point to + 2% on the 2nd track would allow you to get in range.

From the small amount of research I've done, serato doesn't appear to have anywhere near analog pitch resolutions.
Quote:
Quote:
Totally agree with acemc's post, resolution isn't fine enough for tempo matching, on most controllers, if it's midi based, this is because it's got 128 possible values that can be used, so at +-8% that's 0.125% per step, so some tunes are impossible to match, real solution is to give us +-4% or 6%, as well as giving us the bpm to 2 decimal places, at least with the bpm at 2 decimal places you can mitigate the error between the 2 bpms by getting them as close as possible, whether you can match them perfectly or not.


In Traktor you can get a 0.01 pitch resolution on a MIDI controller at +/-8% so I don't consider the option of +/-4% or +/-6% as a "real solution". They just need to get it fixed...


That's the problem though, how do you implement that kind of resolution on something that can only do 128 steps like a lot of controllers tend to use? at 0.01% pitch resolution, you'd need 1600 positions for +-8%, so anyone that already owns hardware would be stuck using mouse/keyboard to adjust pitch or add a 2nd controller and do midi mapping.

I've been looking into this some more and I'm not entirely sure what the solution would be here for people who already own controllers, +-4 or 6% would be one solution, having a moveable zero point would be another, so for instance, you have one tune playing at X tempo at 0 pitch set to 4% and another that needs X tempo + 4.5%, you'll never tempo match them, but being able to set your 0 point to + 2% on the 2nd track would allow you to get in range.

From the small amount of research I've done, serato doesn't appear to have anywhere near analog pitch resolutions, which is a big shame really, as it's starting to make me seriously think about using traktor instead.
Blackie Lox 3:20 AM - 11 February, 2014
Quote:
From the small amount of research I've done, serato doesn't appear to have anywhere near analog pitch resolutions, which is a big shame really, as it's starting to make me seriously think about using traktor instead.


Traktor is definitely better in this area. Serato is heading in the right direction with "DJ" but not quite there yet. The fact that my Denon DN-MC6000 can make 0.01 pitch adjustments in traktor at +-8% but it can't in Serato has proved this to me.
signs 8:01 AM - 11 February, 2014
Most controller use 2 Midi channels. So you get 128*128 = 16384 steps.
and serato uses these 16384 steps, but only doesn't view that
Crazyraider 8:55 AM - 11 February, 2014
I just pulled up a MIDI monitor (MIDI-OX) and plugged in my DDJ-SX, then ran the left deck's tempo slide from one end to the other very slowly. The log recorded 1700 events, which look like this:

TIMESTAMP / IN / PORT / STATUS / DATA1 / DATA2 / CHAN / NOTE / EVENT
0001C59D / 1 / -- / B0 / 00 / 7F / 1 / --- / CC: Bank MSB
0001C59D / 1 / -- / B0 / 20 / 60 / 1 / --- / CC: Bank LSB
0001C603 / 1 / -- / B0 / 00 / 7F / 1 / --- / CC: Bank MSB
0001C603 / 1 / -- / B0 / 20 / 50 / 1 / --- / CC: Bank LSB
0001C7C2 / 1 / -- / B0 / 00 / 7F / 1 / --- / CC: Bank MSB
0001C7C2 / 1 / -- / B0 / 20 / 40 / 1 / --- / CC: Bank LSB
...
I'm cutting out a crapload because you get the idea
...
000344B5 / 1 / -- / B0 / 00 / 00 / 1 / --- / CC: Bank MSB
000344B5 / 1 / -- / B0 / 20 / 30 / 1 / --- / CC: Bank LSB
0003451C / 1 / -- / B0 / 00 / 00 / 1 / --- / CC: Bank MSB
0003451C / 1 / -- / B0 / 20 / 20 / 1 / --- / CC: Bank LSB
00034545 / 1 / -- / B0 / 00 / 00 / 1 / --- / CC: Bank MSB
00034545 / 1 / -- / B0 / 20 / 00 / 1 / --- / CC: Bank LSB
[End]

And there were 1688 more entries that look like that that I cut out. Now, I can barely make heads or tails of that, but the important sections are DATA1 and DATA2, which prove what signs said. Two data channels, much higher resolution than 128 steps. Why it isn't full resolution, I can't say for certain, but I'd guess it's to prevent data overflow or something like that - even minute adjustments send a number of signals, so if the tempo sliders worked at 16384 steps resolution, things could end up slowing down a lot (note that I have no experience with programming anything MIDI related, I'm just guessing based on my personal experience and relatively limited knowledge, so feel free to correct me).
jay dyson 12:52 PM - 11 February, 2014
It doesn't prove what signs said, it does suggest that some controllers use a single 7bit value (CC) like mine and some use a 14bit like yours crazyrider, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

It's not 2 data channels either, it looks very much like bank change data, which splits the msb/lsb over 2 commands, but that most certainly ISN'T over 2 channels :)

I can spit out the data from my numark mixtrack pro II and it's only outputting 128 values, which is consistent with 7bit midi value data .

There will be plenty of boxes that ONLY output 128 values for pitch, so how does that get resolved for the end user?
jay dyson 1:02 PM - 11 February, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
From the small amount of research I've done, serato doesn't appear to have anywhere near analog pitch resolutions, which is a big shame really, as it's starting to make me seriously think about using traktor instead.


Traktor is definitely better in this area. Serato is heading in the right direction with "DJ" but not quite there yet. The fact that my Denon DN-MC6000 can make 0.01 pitch adjustments in traktor at +-8% but it can't in Serato has proved this to me.


Yeah, I just want to have the facility to realistically tempo match without having to say 'that'll do', because it won't do, it's digital, it should be working better than this. Clearly from the 2 posts above from signed and crazy rider, some controllers are better than others, but this can easily be solved in software. I'd solve it on my custom midicontroller if I could but it's only a 10bit dac.

There's also next to zero documentation about how each midi command can be interpreted or what the actual types mean, for instance, the only reason I know that serato can cope with 14bit data is because someone just posted the info in this thread :D
acemc 1:55 PM - 11 February, 2014
I think we're getting too complicated here.
Itch had it & it worked, so why not SDJ?
acemc 1:58 PM - 11 February, 2014
Actually, if your controller can get higher resolution with a different dj software,
that proves it's not hardware related & Serato can (if they want) implement it.
jay dyson 5:26 PM - 11 February, 2014
it looks like crazyriders controller is working in serato, so it's entirely possible that serato is capable of better resolution on the pitch adjust, the issue would appear to be hardware related on my 7bit data, so serato is crippling it to fit the hardware, what would be needed would be maybe just some buttons to fine adjust the pitch, it means either using a pc keyboard to do it or an external controller to handle it but at least we'd have something.
Crazyraider 11:18 PM - 11 February, 2014
Thanks for the info, Jay. That's really good to know, and I don't know why I didn't take the fact that some controllers could be 7-bit into consideration. Regardless, I always appreciate being corrected.

Quote:
it looks like crazyriders controller is working in serato, so it's entirely possible that serato is capable of better resolution on the pitch adjust, the issue would appear to be hardware related on my 7bit data, so serato is crippling it to fit the hardware, what would be needed would be maybe just some buttons to fine adjust the pitch, it means either using a pc keyboard to do it or an external controller to handle it but at least we'd have something.


Yeah, I seem to get pretty fine precision in Serato - I can make very slight adjustments that seem to affect the audio but not the BPM display. So it could very well be a hardware issue. However, without a more precise display, I can't be sure if it's in my head or actually that fine in the software. Admittedly, I didn't start SDJ while running the MIDI monitor, but I at least know the raw output. In the end though, since some controllers are 7-bit, we definitely need smaller pitch adjustment ranges.
pueblofunky 7:12 AM - 12 February, 2014
I don't know how many threads exists since the past years how much decimals should be displayed with BPM.

And I don't understand why Serato is not able in the past years to make a preference setting how much decimals the user wants to see?

A drop-down box with the options "No BPM", "0 Decimals", "1 Decimal", "2 Decimals".

This could be shown on the decks and in the library view.

Beside the ID3 tag BPM column (which doesn't allow decimals as designed by id3.org), Serato is storing the BPM value with 2 decimals in an additional ID3 tag - and the "rounded" value to integer in the normal ID3 BPM tag.

Depending on how you are playing - internal or external - the BPM value will be shown correctly in +/- 0.01 steps (internal) - or jumps in steps - due rounding and external information how fast you play.
Rhadesh 8:26 AM - 12 February, 2014
Quote:
I don't know how many threads exists since the past years how much decimals should be displayed with BPM.

And I don't understand why Serato is not able in the past years to make a preference setting how much decimals the user wants to see?

A drop-down box with the options "No BPM", "0 Decimals", "1 Decimal", "2 Decimals".

This could be shown on the decks and in the library view.

Beside the ID3 tag BPM column (which doesn't allow decimals as designed by id3.org), Serato is storing the BPM value with 2 decimals in an additional ID3 tag - and the "rounded" value to integer in the normal ID3 BPM tag.

Depending on how you are playing - internal or external - the BPM value will be shown correctly in +/- 0.01 steps (internal) - or jumps in steps - due rounding and external information how fast you play.


+1
jay dyson 2:19 PM - 13 February, 2014
Hi CrazyRider, hehehe, yeah, I wasn't trying to be a pedant or anything, I've just sat here and looked at what's going on for a couple of days or so and figured out what was going on, like I said previously, I've got a custom midi controller and access to the guy that wrote the code, so I can do some things to try and fix it my end but none of that will ultimately be useful as the pitch controls aren't even re-mappable in serato :(

As it stands, I think I can possibly get 512-1024 as the max values (9/10bit) but even at 512 that would be 4x the resolution and would probably be good enough, so it's whether serato would be willing to accept 2 8bit bytes for midi data types and make the pitch faders re-mappable. in fact, making all of the faders re-mappable would be neat.
Rhadesh 9:06 AM - 14 February, 2014
Quote:
All you guys complaining about people not being real Djs because they want to see 2 decimals for their bpm need to really read acemc's post. He is spot on on what is the big issue here.

I've been used to beatmatch manually my whole career as a DJ, meaning I don't use the sync button but set the pitch manually. I've owned a DDJ-SX for 3 months now and before this, I'm most accustomed to using CDJs. The one thing that has kept annoying me with Serato so far has been that my tracks keep slipping apart (and even faster when looping). This issue has really been bugging me as I feel I've been more busy with the decks and pitch than ever before. In all my years as a DJ, I have always relied on my ears more than BPM counters as I know they could display the wrong bpm so the biggest problem here is not that the UI shows me 2 decimals for the bpm itself (even though that can be a great tool to speed up a DJs workflow) but that the pitch is working with a resolution of 2 decimals.

CDJ-1000s for instance, don't even show 1 decimal in their BPM but the tempo does show and work with 2 decimals in resolution.

As I have been frustrated over this issue for some time, I have started looking into the possibilities of midi mapping my DDJ-SX to other DJ software such as VDJ or Traktor as I have seen a lot on the internet about other DJs successfully mapping their DDJ-SX to other software.

A couple of days ago I was doing some mixing at home and there were 2 specific songs I simply could not beatmatch no matter how much I tried. They kept slipping apart constantly. I thought I'd try activating the sync button just to see if maybe the sync function works with "hidden" bpm data that I can't see. But even with sync active, the songs still slipped apart which proves to me that Serato is not working with a high enough resolution for their pitch.

I decided to test out the DDJ-SX with Traktor and tried to beatmatch the same two songs and it was a success. The beatmatching was done manually and without almost no effort as I could quickly set the pitch to a fine tuned setting that matched. In Traktor, they use 2 decimals for both bpm and pitch. If I was to move my pitch very very slightly, Traktor could show me pitch change of +0.04% while Serato might skip all the way to +0.1% (0.10%) So here I have used the exact same hardware and gotten two different results based on two different softwares. The positive side is that it's quite clear that there's nothing wrong with the hardware but Traktor is obviously far, far ahead of Serato as a software but I felt that the midi mapping changed too much for my taste to what I can do with my DDJ-SX which is why I don't want to change software. I am really hoping that Serato sees this problem and takes this seriously and fixes it.

This is obviously an issue that goes further than just an update to the UI as it is an issue of how the software handles the pitch bending. It is simply too loose. I don't feel the need to see 2 decimals in my bpm as I'm used to not having that accurate information from my past but I need the pitch to work on a resolution that even CDJs from 10 years back could.

I have even opened another post on this same issue:
serato.com


I really wish someone from Serato could confirm to us that they are working on this fix and how quickly we can expect to see it. This is a critical issue that needs to be addressed as it is one of the most fundamental features that should be in the software. Please stop prioritizing enhancements like effects in front of the fundamental issues that needs to be fixed.


+++++++++1



PS: SERATO simply doesn't care..............
jay dyson 12:51 PM - 14 February, 2014
I got serato because it was recommended as being the de-facto software that DJs use, it does everything it's supposed to, except that one, crucial point, that's never going to go away, DJ's need to be able to tempo match, if your software can't do that, it sucks.

I also got traktor recently, I thought I'd give serato a fair go but as they can't even get the basics right, I think I'm going to jump ship and use software that works and won't cripple itself because of the controller I own.
Pault49 9:55 PM - 18 February, 2014
Disgrace this is now, A Basic thing need fixing, Serato sort this out
jay dyson 10:13 PM - 18 February, 2014
What's even more galling, try loading a tune up into an sp-6 sample slot, guess how many decimal points you get for the pitch on the sample player? Yup, 2.........
DeRajj 6:04 AM - 23 February, 2014
+1
Mr Wilks 3:58 PM - 3 March, 2014
+1
acemc 9:10 AM - 4 March, 2014
Quote:
guess how many decimal points you get for the pitch on the sample player? Yup, 2.........

Now that's just crazy!
Mr Wilks 9:17 AM - 4 March, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
guess how many decimal points you get for the pitch on the sample player? Yup, 2.........

Now that's just crazy!


Yeah, shame that but it's always been the case from Scratch Live & Itch.

Come on Serato... give it us back!
jay dyson 1:59 PM - 6 March, 2014
Pretty sad really, they'll spend bundles of time on stuff but can't do the little things.

I also find it really sad that even though I bought exactly the same copy of serato dj as everyone else, the pitch on mine is crippled to 128 steps, because of the pitch on my hardware controller, a limitation that serato could easily overcome by allowing us to adjust the pitch from the keyboard or remap the pitch controls ourselves.
jay dyson 2:00 PM - 6 March, 2014
Also, something I find incredibly sad is that this thread has been open 2 years, 2 years and not a peep of an answer from Serato, shockingly poor customer service.
pueblofunky 3:39 PM - 6 March, 2014
Quote:
Also, something I find incredibly sad is that this thread has been open 2 years, 2 years and not a peep of an answer from Serato, shockingly poor customer service.


I think there is an application designer who says "NO" due personal reasons.

Since the release of SSL 2.0 (7 April, 2010 !),

serato.com

there was NO library releated release. Since 4 years !!

Tell me any other software product where there is NO change in a key function - and the library management is one - ?

- I've asked for more columns in SSL. No reply.

- I've asked for fixing the crates + smart crate order problem with connected / disconnected external hard disc. I made hours and days with detailed analyses - no fix until today (the same problems still exist in SDJ 1.6).

BUT ... in SDJ we have a the "unreadable" BOLD font. WHY ?

SSL has been copied to SDJ and modified. Was there EVER ANY feature request to switch to the bold font ... and WHY NOT adding an option in the library management to switch between normal, bold - and if someone needs it ... italic, italic bold. ;-)

THIS font switch is the MAIN reason for me NOT to switch to SDJ and buy a SL 2, 3 or 4.

Also I play with a DRM 900 SRT in my main club. 3 CD players are connected and I can NOT change this setup - and SDJ fills the laptop screen with 4 decks - but I only need 2. So it is NOT useable.

Who please is responsible for this application design and who are the developers?

I am software, application + database designer and programmer for 30 years now and working for more than 20 years in a big bank ... but I do not understand this design.

Funny is that they have made an option to make a grey or blue background which track has been played.

If I could - I would work for FREE for Serato to make a better library management - including a setting in the prefs how much decimals you want to see for a BPM value of course. ;-)
nik39 4:33 PM - 6 March, 2014
Quote:
BUT ... in SDJ we have a the "unreadable" BOLD font. WHY ?

+1

Quote:
I do not understand this design.

+1
Rhadesh 8:48 AM - 7 March, 2014
+1
Simon Love Carter 11:32 PM - 19 March, 2014
+1 for two years!!!! Please someone ate SERAT HQ say something! Anything!
Rhadesh 3:26 PM - 20 March, 2014
Quote:
+1 for two years!!!! Please someone ate SERAT HQ say something! Anything!



+++1
beisi 2:10 PM - 21 March, 2014
+10000
DJVaage 3:12 AM - 22 March, 2014
Quote:

If I could - I would work for FREE for Serato to make a better library management - including a setting in the prefs how much decimals you want to see for a BPM value of course. ;-)


And there you have it Serato. Make this guy busy!!!!!
Entro 4:03 PM - 6 April, 2014
+1

Yep, I'll keep this 2 year thread running.

Two decimal points for BPM goes hand in hand with a 4 and 6% pitch range option. Pitch sliders at 8% are just two sensitive to be precise.

Even the FREE version of Cross DJ has this...
Rhadesh 8:36 AM - 7 April, 2014
Quote:
+1

Yep, I'll keep this 2 year thread running.

Two decimal points for BPM goes hand in hand with a 4 and 6% pitch range option. Pitch sliders at 8% are just two sensitive to be precise.

Even the FREE version of Cross DJ has this...




++++1
viper9711 7:59 PM - 8 April, 2014
+1 for two decimal points
QDJ 3:05 PM - 13 May, 2014
Greetings from South Africa!, for this post, agreed.
I have just bought the DDJ SX and feel that the Serato Software needs fine tuning.
The BPM %'s must reflect to decimal points, in some tracks there is a slight time audio gap even when the BPM's are identical on Serato - I do not sync and this needs to be addressed as beat mixing is why I do this, its the pleasure of having those notes locked in with each other - audio orgasm. Please assist Serato!!!!!!!!
DJ Compiler 3:29 AM - 14 May, 2014
+1
Rhadesh 12:55 PM - 14 May, 2014
++++++++1
Pault49 9:20 PM - 17 June, 2014
god knows how long this has been going now with no response from Serato.

Disgrace
Mr Wilks 11:44 PM - 17 June, 2014
Honestly... I went to use this tonight while playing and totally forgot it wasn't here until I looked.

Grrrrr.
Greg Wynn 1:54 AM - 20 June, 2014
This is ridiculous, thread has been going for a year and a half an zero response from Serato... This is one of the few things I wish they would update on this program already...
Frozone 2:52 AM - 20 June, 2014
+1
scornille 9:32 AM - 20 June, 2014
+1 yes ! Very interesting for me ...
acemc 5:35 PM - 25 June, 2014
Quote:
SDJ fills the laptop screen with 4 decks - but I only need 2

You can change that with a button on the top left of the screen (2/4).
But for the 2 decimal BPM, I'll add another..........
+1
Xavier Albareda 10:45 PM - 26 June, 2014
+1, please avoid to reply 'JUST PRESS SYNC', because I use to mix with my two brothers at the same time, they use Traktor, and I mixed clearly perfect with ITCH and my old Vestax VCI 300. Now I've bought VCI 400, and it runs with Serato DJ: IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO MIX AGAIN WITH ACCURATE PRECISION :(

I sent a message to Serato on Twitter and they reply me, that this feature is not on the RoadMap.

Does it means that I'm forced to reset the firmware, download the mapping for my new Vestax VCI 400, and use TRAKTOR?

Please Serato Team let's keep this simple and put the 2 decimal positions back again
Xavier Albareda 10:48 PM - 26 June, 2014
Quote:
This is ridiculous, thread has been going for a year and a half an zero response from Serato... This is one of the few things I wish they would update on this program already...


Totally agree. Nobody is saying anything about this issue, and this Feature Sugestion is meaningless with no response from the team
Nacho Ruiz 7:36 AM - 15 July, 2014
+1
Cozmic023 7:46 AM - 15 July, 2014
+1

Better pitch resolution & 2 decimal readout..........come on Serato, sort this out.
Wackozz 7:30 AM - 22 July, 2014
+1, It's a must-have..
Simon Love Carter 8:52 AM - 22 July, 2014
better resolution is the first thing really important more than looking at the screen for two decimal places!
dizzyrocks2001 4:11 PM - 22 July, 2014
I don't need 2 decimal places, but I get why people want it, and it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it, so I give it a +1
lexloofah 5:04 PM - 3 August, 2014
+1 its not so much that I need to know the precise percentage of pitch I am applying. I need to know that when I move the pitch by a very small amount, the software has actually recognised this and applied it. Instead of waiting for 30 plus seconds cueing to see if it runs out again.
Cozmic023 7:44 PM - 8 August, 2014
Doesn't look like this problem has been addressed in the SDJ 1.7 Public Beta?

But then again, they have addressed several Pioneer DDJ-SX issues.

So i'm happy for that.....but please fix this issue.

Many thanks
lexloofah 8:18 PM - 8 August, 2014
Please let us have a pitch readout to 2 decimal places at least. Bought a ddj sr to save lugging my 2000's to places with no decks, impossible to confirm immediately if the small touch on the pitch slider has actually done anything in the software.
Mr Wilks 10:16 PM - 8 August, 2014
Shame that early Itch had it.

I think the sample deck uses it IIRC?
DJ Cyrix 9:45 AM - 21 August, 2014
+1 fro two decimal places in BPM. Not so much for actually matching two bpm's, but indeed to have an indication if moving the slider a notch actually has done something.
Xavier Albareda 9:50 AM - 23 August, 2014
Ok, I usually play with my two brothers and they use serato, I'm no able to play with them with the new Serato Dj and I don't want to move back to Serato ITCH like I used to.

I just decided to erase the firmware of my Vestax, and install Trakto Pro 2,

Bye bye
NORRISSK8 2:40 PM - 25 August, 2014
This is essential.

Also a very good way of detecting the accuracy of the pitch faders when you test a new controller.

+1
Martin C 2:16 AM - 26 August, 2014
Hey guys,

If we considered having a setup screen option to show two decimal places instead of one, do you think its also necessary for the additional digit to appear in the library AND the native BPM track display area as well as the current BPM on the virtual deck?

I have uploaded an image just to point out the areas I am talking about: serato.com

I understand that having two decimal places are important for precision beat matching, so having on the virtual deck is the main place. Will it just be distracting in the other two areas?
DJ Compiler 2:25 AM - 26 August, 2014
I think those areas will be fine as is
Martin C 2:44 AM - 26 August, 2014
Cool, so only necessary on virtual deck is what you mean right?
acemc 2:50 AM - 26 August, 2014
Only on the virtual decks will be enough as far as Im concerned.
What benefit could the other areas have?
Martin C 3:49 AM - 26 August, 2014
I don't think the benefits are great in my opinion, but I did want to ask you guys just in case there were some that I hadn't really thought about.
Mr Wilks 4:00 AM - 26 August, 2014
I'd vote to skip the library but virtual decks and track into (the other two options) gets my vote.
Mr Wilks 4:05 AM - 26 August, 2014
Quote:
Hey guys,

If we considered having a setup screen option to show two decimal places instead of one, do you think its also necessary for the additional digit to appear in the library AND the native BPM track display area as well as the current BPM on the virtual deck?

I have uploaded an image just to point out the areas I am talking about: serato.com

I understand that having two decimal places are important for precision beat matching, so having on the virtual deck is the main place. Will it just be distracting in the other two areas?


Does the sample player show two decimal places too? I know it used to in other Serato softwares.

I vote a +1 for sample player too if it doesn't already! (As it used to have it).
pueblofunky 6:21 AM - 26 August, 2014
To AVOID any future discussion(s)

I HIGHLY recommend to make an option (how many decimals) for each display (native BPM display/deck, library view, etc.)

or

if the decision is only one option - use the number of decimals everywhere!

The main reason for it to display it everywhere is that I'm also sorting out the best masters with Serato (music from 70-90s) and it is nice to see how different the BPM is (different speed during A/D from analog master tape, etc.).

E.g. I have

125.51 will currently display as 126 BPM
125.47 will currently display as 125 BPM

With 2 decimals in the library view I would see that it isn't so much difference as it looks like rounded and I need NOT compare it with my original 12" vinyl or other sources which is the correct speed - so it saves me a lot of time.


Thanks a lot!
Mr Wilks 11:32 AM - 26 August, 2014
I think Traktor and Rekordbox show it in the library and it's no biggie. I can just close the BPM column a little if it gets annoying I suppose.
Simon Love Carter 12:26 PM - 26 August, 2014
we are going out of c9ntrol with this thread.... Considering that serato never gave an answer I really don't know what to do more..... disappointed
DJ Cyrix 12:50 PM - 26 August, 2014
I'd vote displaying it in all the views.
blackavenger 1:37 PM - 26 August, 2014
Quote:
The main reason for it to display it everywhere is that I'm also sorting out the best masters with Serato (music from 70-90s) and it is nice to see how different the BPM is (different speed during A/D from analog master tape, etc.).

E.g. I have

125.51 will currently display as 126 BPM
125.47 will currently display as 125 BPM

You shouldn't be "syncing" tunes like that anyway. The whole reason that I want two decimal places is for tighter EFX, sp-6, etc.. I don't think I would be using old analog master tape material for those situations anyway. FFS, just use your ears!!

I vote Virtual Deck and SP-6.

If it must be in all places, then please at least give us the option to turn that feature on/off.
pueblofunky 2:18 PM - 26 August, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
The main reason for it to display it everywhere is that I'm also sorting out the best masters with Serato (music from 70-90s) and it is nice to see how different the BPM is (different speed during A/D from analog master tape, etc.).

E.g. I have

125.51 will currently display as 126 BPM
125.47 will currently display as 125 BPM

You shouldn't be "syncing" tunes like that anyway. The whole reason that I want two decimal places is for tighter EFX, sp-6, etc.. I don't think I would be using old analog master tape material for those situations anyway. FFS, just use your ears!!

I vote Virtual Deck and SP-6.

If it must be in all places, then please at least give us the option to turn that feature on/off.


For whatever I want 1 or 2 decimal places - it is highly recommended to make an option for each display variation - as I wrote above - and all are happy and everyone can use it as he wants.

btw: Instead of an option "Use 2 decimal places" I recommend "Number of decimal places:" (and you can choose between 0, 1 or 2) ... ;-)

And I think there is no difference if you add 1 or 3 or more options if you are doing the work one time. copy + paste in editor ;-)
viper9711 4:33 PM - 26 August, 2014
I'd vote displaying it in all the views.
Cozmic023 6:49 PM - 26 August, 2014
Same here. And have a switch to choose between whole & two decimal places.
Frozone 12:25 AM - 27 August, 2014
I also vote for all views, but also see the point of having user control to turn the feature on or off.
Martin C 3:05 AM - 27 August, 2014
Quote:
we are going out of c9ntrol with this thread.... Considering that serato never gave an answer I really don't know what to do more..... disappointed


Hello Simon, I am here :)

Quote:
I vote Virtual Deck and SP-6.


It already does show two decimal places in SP-6 by the way.

Keen to hear more reasons why you actually need it in library view, track info display area etc. I am not fully convinced its necessary and may just clutter things for people simply wanting this information on the virtual deck.
blackavenger 5:49 AM - 27 August, 2014
Quote:
Keen to hear more reasons why you actually need it in library view, track info display area etc. I am not fully convinced its necessary and may just clutter things

Word, I agree.
pueblofunky 6:28 AM - 27 August, 2014
Please give us an option for the number of decimals (0, 1 or 2) for every possible view.

It is really simple and all users are happy. Everyone can make the setup he wants and prefers - regardless of personal meanings. No further discussions and threads should follow.

@Martin C:

If you think in the library view it is not necessary - than you are a person who think for the others that they don't need it. But as you see above - others want it and need it (including me) - and the easiest way to make all happy is as I've written on the first sentence.

Thanks a lot!
zoomwire 7:06 AM - 27 August, 2014
@pueblofunky: I think adding an option for everything isn't an option. Take a look at Traktor or many other windows software. There are so many options, sometimes you can even export+import your settings of an application.

I think Serato has a different take on user interfaces. "Only add an option if its really necessary. Everything else should be predefined." It helps to write & maintain cleaner code and to have a simpler user interface. :)

+1 for decimal in virtual deck. - don't need it in the other views…
nik39 7:53 AM - 27 August, 2014
Quote:
@pueblofunky: I think adding an option for everything isn't an option. Take a look at Traktor or many other windows software. There are so many options, sometimes you can even export+import your settings of an application.

I think Serato has a different take on user interfaces. "Only add an option if its really necessary. Everything else should be predefined." It helps to write & maintain cleaner code and to have a simpler user interface.

+1
Martin C 8:12 AM - 27 August, 2014
Zoomwire has summed it up, thank you.

We have always taken this mentality to our software to keep things simple and concise. This means we sometimes might miss out on edge cases and full customization, but if that is your thing then Serato is probably not for you, but we completely understand that.

We'd like to nail this with one option if possible, so instead of telling me how you think it should be, I am really more interested in why you think it should be that way. I am interested to know the real world use cases for having the extra two decimals in all places.

Thanks!
LJ_WOOLSEY 8:22 AM - 27 August, 2014
It should just be on the virtual decks and reason for this is that where the live stuff is happening. But i do like the idea of a choice .0 / .1 / .11 as options for the bpm display of the virtual decks. Then if you are from ssl and only like to see the hole bpm and not the .1 at the moment thats cool then if you come from itch you can choose .11

No need to have anymore choices.

That should cover it all for people using it to mix.

Just how i see it should be.
pueblofunky 8:44 AM - 27 August, 2014
I am a computer programmer and application designer in a big bank for 25 years now ... options are good. Of course - too much isn't good - but Serato doesn't have really much as other software. And this is in the preferences! You do it one time and then never again anymore. The programming itself isn't really the problem.

If you only do ONE option - it is ok for me of course - but please keep the number of decimals equal on every view (continual) - and not 0 decimals here, 1 decimal there and 2 decimal on another place. This is a bad mix-up. Keep it simple and consistently.

But regarding your personal preference "+1 for decimal in virtual deck. - don't need it in the other views" ... you see - I and others above want it the other way. So you need more options. Why should your opinion count more than from others? I see a 50 : 50.

Why decimals in the library view?
- sorting by BPM
- avoids double click into the BPM cell to see both decimals
- comparing the different masters from different CDs (e.g. CD from 1986 vs from 2001) shows different BPM's - see my example above:
- new rekordbox 3 has 2 decimals in library view - don't be a step behind the competitors
- consistently everywhere

125.51 will currently display as 126 BPM
125.47 will currently display as 125 BPM

In the library view I currently see a difference of 1 BPM - with 2 decimals I see it's only 0.04 BPM difference. Currently I have to click inside. This is a big difference. ;-)

However:

Not an option if 0 or 2 decimals. Let us enter the number of decimals: 0, 1 or 2.

And - one option more or less in the preferences isn't the problem. I wish there would be more options e.g. to click the cue-point-view in the stand-alone player view away to save space, an option to have the original SSL font and not the bold font which makes the library view unreadable, and option to have the lines instead of the cluttering background, an option to have blue / orange crates as in SSL, etc. This unreadabilty is the problem - not one option more or less.

Thanks
pueblofunky 9:01 AM - 27 August, 2014
btw:

You have to decide if you want to have more customers.

If a customer sees another software which things he likes or prefers (e.g. decimals in library view) he might choose the other software. Otherwise you can say: Yes of course - we have an option to specify the number of decimals. We have options to make it suitable for you! -> That is marketing!

=> That is why options are important.

However - my option is currently to use SSL and not SDJ due the readabilty. And I am not ready to switch. Just for example.

I only want to help you with my long experience regarding usability because I always used Serato since the beginning.
Martin C 11:17 AM - 27 August, 2014
Thanks pueblofunky, much more valuable feedback. Appreciate you taking the time to explain that :)
Blackie Lox 12:46 PM - 27 August, 2014
It only NEEDS to be on the virtual deck. I can't think of any practical reason for it being in the library.

I sort my songs by BPM, only to get a general idea if a song can mix with what's currently playing. A standard turntable only has a +/- 8% pitch range (which I feel is more than enough). With that information alone, I know that I can theoretically mix two songs that have a difference of +/- 8 BPM. As a general rule (for myself) I try not to go past +6% or -2%. So in that aspect, decimal places are of no importance to me as whole numbers work just fine.

If you are dwelling on decimal points to decide what song to choose while mixing, then you might as well just press sync to have it perfectly matched up.

The only real practical benefit I see with having 2 decimal places is when using digital pitch sliders (either CD players or MIDI controllers) so you know how much you actually nudged the slider. If using analog turntables, there is no need for an extra decimal place since it will fluctuate anyway.

Just my humble opinion.
nik39 12:57 PM - 27 August, 2014
Quote:
Why should your opinion count more than from others? I see a 50 : 50.

If it is a tie, or close to a tie, then an option is needed (assuming this is an important feature).

Personally, I don't feel like this is a very important feature. There are other features which should be more customizable with options. ;)

I agree with Blackie. Decimals in the library is too much unnecessary clutter for me personally. I just need the bpms to get a rough idea about what could match bpm wise. No need to know decimals for that.

On the virtual decks, I can see the benefit of having one decimal. Because I spin with vinyl two decimals would be overkill (wow+flutter). Even if I was playing with CD's I would more likely use my ears to fine tune the speed/bpm.

Just my 2 cents.
Cozmic023 10:57 PM - 27 August, 2014
If i had to make one choice then it'd have to be the virtual decks. Library & Sample deck are worth having, but not essential.

My Pioneer DDJ-SX could do with better pitch resolution, and/or decimal places for finer adjustment.

SDJ seems to have a course pitch adjustment, compared to when i was using Itch which seemed to have much finer adjustment.

Also agree with the SSL layout, and blue/orange crates. Preferred that look.

I tend not to bother with sync, as i play old tunes that don't sync well so prefer to dial them in instead.

Hope this helps?
acemc 11:43 PM - 27 August, 2014
Quote:
SDJ seems to have a course pitch adjustment, compared to when i was using Itch which seemed to have much finer adjustment.

This is the whole point of this thread / feature request.
We aren't actually asking for a mere visual decimal on the GUI.
We are actually asking for a higher resolution pitch adjustment, which will allow us to make finer pitch adjustments much more accurately. It really should be implemented relative to the pitch range one is using. Eg: 2% over the entire range of a pitch slide gives you 3 decimal places, 6, 8 & 10% gives 2 decimals. 15 - 20% = 1 decimal etc.....
The whole option for 1 or 2 decimals falls away if this is implemented correctly.
Well that's just my 2c's anyway.
Cozmic023 8:53 AM - 28 August, 2014
Cool. Thanks for explaining.
pueblofunky 2:22 PM - 28 August, 2014
Quote:
We aren't actually asking for a mere visual decimal on the GUI.


As far as I can see the initial thread has the first sentence: "May I please put a request in for the BPM displayed to be 2 decimal places ..."

Quote:
We are actually asking for a higher resolution pitch adjustment, which will allow us to make finer pitch adjustments much more accurately. It really should be implemented relative to the pitch range one is using. Eg: 2% over the entire range of a pitch slide gives you 3 decimal places, 6, 8 & 10% gives 2 decimals. 15 - 20% = 1 decimal etc.....


Too complex - and would be another feature request. ;-)

And more than 2 decimals is a little overhead (but possible).

E.g. A track with BPM 96.123 changed to +0.001 % speed = 96.123 * 100.001 / 100 = 96.12396123 = 96.124 ... so a speed change of 0.001 % would changed the 3rd comma. I would be surprised if you can move the speed slider within 0.001 % to be equal with another track. ;-)

I don't say I need 2 decimals to mix - I also don't need 1 decimal to mix because I only play 70's and 80s anymore where there is no correct tempo of the beats and I always have to use my ears and hands. ;-)

The presentation of 1 or 2 decimals in the GUI library itself is only for the "data" freaks (like me). Maybe sorting might be another reason - don't know yet if Serato sorts the library view with 0 or 2 decimals.
Mr Wilks 3:05 PM - 28 August, 2014
+1 for track info display as it used to have it in Itch and also in all views. I didn't like having to switch to stacked mode/library mode in SSL to see more info!

There was a beta of SSL a few years back that had a bug that gave two decimal places on internal mode on one deck if I remember but they fixed it. Booooo!

Virtual decks would be handy.

Maybe giving the option to "reveal" the two decimal places when a shift + click is done on the BPM display? Similar to how we change the waveforms to either a smaller size or three band waveforms.
This makes the extra options in set up redundant and is just a mouse click away.
Mr Wilks 3:16 PM - 28 August, 2014
Oh, and as you've asked specifically why we want it, ill give my reason.

I think it's pretty much normal in software now to show the extra BPM data and as we are moving slowly to a system with Flip and the possibility to sync with DAWs, dialing in precicely with Ableton will be great. The APC 40 will be next to the SX running SDJ and the Twitch mapped to Live.

Having the extra info never hurts anyone. They just complain that it's there so a shift + click to hide it will please the people who aren't fans.

Just my reasons and understand if this isn't to everyone's taste.
Mr Wilks 3:32 PM - 28 August, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
SDJ seems to have a course pitch adjustment, compared to when i was using Itch which seemed to have much finer adjustment.

This is the whole point of this thread / feature request.
We aren't actually asking for a mere visual decimal on the GUI.
We are actually asking for a higher resolution pitch adjustment, which will allow us to make finer pitch adjustments much more accurately. It really should be implemented relative to the pitch range one is using. Eg: 2% over the entire range of a pitch slide gives you 3 decimal places, 6, 8 & 10% gives 2 decimals. 15 - 20% = 1 decimal etc.....
The whole option for 1 or 2 decimals falls away if this is implemented correctly.
Well that's just my 2c's anyway.


You may want to post in this thread for the pitch resolution as that will get noticed more i think serato.com
Mr Wilks 3:35 PM - 28 August, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
SDJ seems to have a course pitch adjustment, compared to when i was using Itch which seemed to have much finer adjustment.

This is the whole point of this thread / feature request.
We aren't actually asking for a mere visual decimal on the GUI.
We are actually asking for a higher resolution pitch adjustment, which will allow us to make finer pitch adjustments much more accurately. It really should be implemented relative to the pitch range one is using. Eg: 2% over the entire range of a pitch slide gives you 3 decimal places, 6, 8 & 10% gives 2 decimals. 15 - 20% = 1 decimal etc.....
The whole option for 1 or 2 decimals falls away if this is implemented correctly.
Well that's just my 2c's anyway.


You may want to post in this thread for the pitch resolution as that will get noticed more i think serato.com


Actually, disregard that as I realised you wanted a different resolution and not pitch display.
acemc 12:33 AM - 29 August, 2014
Quote:
And more than 2 decimals is a little overhead (but possible).

Im not saying I want 3 decimal places, just using that as an example of decimal places versus pitch range.
Quote:
The presentation of 1 or 2 decimals in the GUI library itself is only for the "data" freaks (like me).

If you mean "library" only then I agree with your statement. However, If not then you need to read through this thread & you'll soon realise that many of us feel like we don't have enough control over our pitch. "IF" Serato only changed the pitch in 1% increments as we currently see it on the screen, then in order to add 2 decimal places to the screen the pitch resolution would need to be increased - It kinda works hand in hand.
Sand 5:08 PM - 31 August, 2014
Quote:
I tested Serato DJ today and i must agree with all here.
It´s not so easy to get the same BPM on both decks in ITCH, but when u have it, there is no more hand on the pitch for the mix.
In DJ, i have all the time do the pitch thing and the traxx are runing out of sync :(

Yes Autosync is a way... but i dont want to use it... it´s not like a pro :)
So please give use the 2 decimal back in the next update, thanks!

Greats Andre
TheOne


Surely beat matching by using the BPM display is not pro?
Entro 6:00 PM - 5 September, 2014
Two decimal places in the virtual decks - that's where it's needed. Library and track display would be fine but not totally necessary. User options, as always, are appreciated.

Pitch range is very much connected to this though. The default 8% simply isn't precise enough, especially on controllers with short faders (most of them). 6% and 4% are offered in Cross DJ. Don't see why it would be a hugely difficult addition...
Rhadesh 8:29 AM - 8 September, 2014
Quote:
Two decimal places in the virtual decks - that's where it's needed. Library and track display would be fine but not totally necessary. User options, as always, are appreciated.

Pitch range is very much connected to this though. The default 8% simply isn't precise enough, especially on controllers with short faders (most of them). 6% and 4% are offered in Cross DJ. Don't see why it would be a hugely difficult addition...



++++++1
_jeri_ 11:07 PM - 11 September, 2014
Quote:
Two decimal places in the virtual decks - that's where it's needed. Library and track display would be fine but not totally necessary. User options, as always, are appreciated.

Pitch range is very much connected to this though. The default 8% simply isn't precise enough, especially on controllers with short faders (most of them). 6% and 4% are offered in Cross DJ. Don't see why it would be a hugely difficult addition...


+1❗️👍
Wackozz 11:08 AM - 21 September, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
Pitch range is very much connected to this though. The default 8% simply isn't precise enough, especially on controllers with short faders (most of them). 6% and 4% are offered in Cross DJ. Don't see why it would be a hugely difficult addition...

+100000
Dokumentary 6:11 PM - 24 September, 2014
+ 100.00

for 2 decimals on the decks and also in the library. When I click the BPM column I'd like my songs to actually be listed by BPM. (Low to high or high to low).

Just make the column resizable so people can keep it tight for no decimals (100), a bit wider for 1 decimal (100.1) or all the way for 2 decimals (100.00).

Also, add an option in the setup screen to show 0,1, or 2 decimals on the decks. Have the font resize smaller for each increase in decimal points on the deck so it has no effect on the GUI.

Make sense?
Mr Wilks 9:09 PM - 24 September, 2014
Quote:
+ 100.00

for 2 decimals on the decks and also in the library. When I click the BPM column I'd like my songs to actually be listed by BPM. (Low to high or high to low).

Just make the column resizable so people can keep it tight for no decimals (100), a bit wider for 1 decimal (100.1) or all the way for 2 decimals (100.00).

Also, add an option in the setup screen to show 0,1, or 2 decimals on the decks. Have the font resize smaller for each increase in decimal points on the deck so it has no effect on the GUI.

+1

Resizeable columns can hide it in the library so this is the way forward.

Setup screen to confirm how many decimals.

Make sense?
Jumbo Boogie 11:20 PM - 24 September, 2014
although I believe that if your using your eye's to match bpm's you might as well be using simple sync...but at the same time there is a benefit to seeing the extra decimal values. For example if your trying to gradually increase the bpm from song to song....it's good to be able see the bpm is .20+ faster or adjust to it if your ears placed it at a lower value...Yes you can adjust it during the song but if you go too much you'll notice the slight change and that might bother people. At least with the +.15-25 head start the change would be less noticeable.
DJHessler 11:32 AM - 29 September, 2014
Hi!

Just started to use Serato DJ and found it had only one decimal??
I have used about every software on the market and never came across such a bad visual showing of BPM. Wich for my personal preference is the most important information of all.
I would like three decimals as in other software and also the waveform is to rugh.
And that is for all of the places BPM is shown.....
Yoy need to be able to zoom in much more to be able to set the beatgrid more correct IMHO!

Pretty pleas fix that :-)
Shumi 6:12 PM - 19 December, 2014
Thanks Serato! :)

Just saw that in the new Update to 1.7.2 it is possible to display 2 decimals now.
You showed us again how much you care about our feedback and requests.
acemc 11:24 AM - 21 December, 2014
Having the 2 decimal in offline mode for grid editing is still missing though :(
Xavier Albareda 7:24 PM - 21 December, 2014
Thanks for the 2 decimals new feature. Next version 2% pitch range?
djchrisL 11:48 PM - 27 December, 2014
+1
Mr Wilks 6:07 AM - 28 December, 2014
Quote:
+1


If you haven't already downloaded the latest version you now have the BPM to two decimal places. You have to check the box in the setup screen and you should be good to go djchrisL.
DER_FICH 9:23 PM - 9 January, 2015
+1
LJ_WOOLSEY 1:36 AM - 10 January, 2015
Quote:
+1

Why you +1 its already in sdj now.
blackavenger 3:31 AM - 10 January, 2015
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Quote:
+1

Why you +1 its already in sdj now.

Ha!
Davideon 9:29 AM - 10 January, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
+1

Why you +1 its already in sdj now.

+1
Mr Wilks 5:13 PM - 10 January, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
+1

Why you +1 its already in sdj now.

+1


+1 (because there was lots of +1's there!)
LJ_WOOLSEY 5:44 PM - 10 January, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
+1

Why you +1 its already in sdj now.

+1


+1 (because there was lots of +1's there!)


+1 i agree
BrendanClay 11:18 PM - 2 December, 2015
Alright, guys, after a bit of back-and-forth with Serato support over Twitter this morning, it has been suggested by them that, in an effort to expedite the "two decimal points for pitch display" update into production, we should rally support around a thread, "bump it up" and increase its visibility.

If this is still a feature that you're looking for — and it should be, given that Serato DJ doesn't support it yet — please jump into my thread, post your desire — at serato.com — and let's get this happening.

The reason I suggest the use my thread over this one, is that my thread specifically details the issue from the get-go, rather than it being mentioned in other threads as a side-discussion.

For your reference, you can view the Twitter conversation here: twitter.com

Just to avoid any confusion here, as it's commonly believed that this request relates to two-decimal place BPM display — which is already available — the pitch reading that should have two decimal places displayed, is shown here: www.brendanclay.com

Many thanks, in advance.

Let's make this happen!
DJHexum 11:41 PM - 25 April, 2017
+ 1 on the ZERO decimal point option in SDJ similar to the "pure" form in SSL which never had decimal points. EASY code change.
acemc 4:17 PM - 26 April, 2017
?????
They added the 2 decimal point in quite some time ago.
Perhaps you're asking for something else?
DJHexum 10:15 PM - 26 April, 2017
I am only talking about getting the ZERO decimal point option implemented. SSL did not have 1 or 2. SDJ started with 1 decimal, then moved to 1 and 2, but for some reason removed 0. Simple code change.
BrendanClay 12:51 AM - 20 November, 2017
Quote:
?????
They added the 2 decimal point in quite some time ago.
Perhaps you're asking for something else?


Not for pitch display they didn't.
acemc 11:51 AM - 20 November, 2017
The title of this thread says "bpm display" not pitch display, so that could explain the confusion. But I would def +1 for a higher resolution pitch display.
BrendanClay 12:31 AM - 21 November, 2017
Feel free to add some love on this thread, please: serato.com

;)