1 decimal place is just what is displayed. The actual changes increment in smaller steps.

I think.

Well, if is the case, I'd still love to see an option to allow the user to toggle it on or off.

In saying that, you don't seem absolutely convinced.

I know that denon cd decks only display to a certain point, but actually increment as analog would. Just assume its the same here.

Hopefully you can confirm this by using your ears?

I hope it would be, but I'd still definitely prefer to see a visual change, as it might do on a CDJ.

At gigs, I use either a set of Akai LBD-8 controllers or a Traktor Kontrol F1 - both of which have MIDI assignments set up for an increase or decrease of 0.01% increments for pitch.

As a result, 0.1% display is not adequate.

Rather, LPD-8 controllers.

For anyone following this discussion, I alerted the Serato account on Twitter to this thread.

Their response:

"Hey Brendan, we're aware of this request but there's no plans to implement a second decimal place at this point in time."

I have since responded with:

"Can you advise if this is just a display issue? The pitch itself is finer than 0.1% increments, surely?"

I second this, won't move from Itch to DJ until they reinstate this and the +6 pitch settings, holding off on upgrading to a DDJ-S1 for the same reason

Hey guys,

If we considered having a setup screen option to show two decimal places instead of one, do you think its also necessary for the additional digit to appear in the library AND the native BPM track display area as well as the current BPM on the virtual deck?

I have uploaded an image just to point out the areas I am talking about: serato.com

I understand that having two decimal places are important for precision beat matching, so having on the virtual deck is the main place. Will it just be distracting in the other two areas?

Hi Martin,

Thank you for your response.

My original request, however, related to the appearance of two decimal places for the pitch reading, not the BPM of the tune.

In answer to your question, I'm more than happy to see a single integer for the BPM – without any decimal places – but I'd like the pitch to read in 0.01% increments. The functionality would have to be available, surely, as I can see the more precise reading on my CDJ-900 Nexus units, when connected in Advanced HID mode.

Thanks again.

Martin please do not have the bpm in the library show to anything other than whole numbers. It would be of zero benefit.

Brendan Clay. Are you getting confused between speed and pitch?

I don't believe that I am, Dave.

I might well be using turntable terminology here, but whilst the pitch control does control the speed of the tune, and – unless you're using some kind of "master tempo"-type control, which I don't – the pitch of the tune will also increase or decrease accordingly.

So there is no confusion, I would like to see the following reading with two decimal places (i.e. 0.01%) – see screenshot: www.brendanclay.com

Ah I'm with you now.

Martin would there be a future update that allowed the user to choose what was shown on the virtual deck. With Nothing being an option?

Ah sorry for the misunderstanding BrendanClay, cheers for the explaining that.

So the CDJ itself does display two decimals when, but the virtual deck in the software does not. This is something we could certainly consider at some stage.



I am not really sure there is much value in making it THAT customisable, (Library mode is there if you the minimal type) but sure, if many people felt like they wanted nothing on the deck, we could consider it.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I see that in Serato DJ 1.7.2, you've now added "2 Decimal Place BPM display option" – but what about pitch?!

Not for pitch sorry, just BPM, as many more people requested that. We could look at doing it for pitch at some point though.

I must admit, I really can't see the logic in this.

Whilst I understand that the BPM feature has been requested, I can't help but feel that those who use – or rather, claim they "need" – two decimal places, would be better off just using sync!

Couldn't that argument be applied to the requirement of two decimal places in the pitch percentage also?

Some users simply do want to use sync, but instead prefer the job of precise beat matching. Everyone has different workflows and not everyone is willing to use sync.

I'm not sure the two variables in question – i.e. pitch and BPM readings – are comparable, Martin.

As I've written, I'd prefer to see a visual change in the smaller pitch increments, as it might do on the reading of a CDJ – which is the experience I'm trying to mirror, though in the application.

I use either a set of Akai LPD-8 controllers or a Traktor Kontrol F1 - both of which have MIDI assignments set up for an increase or decrease of 0.01% increments for pitch. As a result, 0.1% display – for pitch – is not adequate.

I'm saying that anyone looking to match the BPM readings – rather than match it my ear – may as well just use the sync function. It's essentially what they're doing anyway, no?

So maybe what you are talking about is finer resolution with pitch, as well as being able to see more decimal places?

Because revealing more decimal places in the pitch percentage doesn't sound like it will necessary solve your problem.



In my opinion its a valid statement, but you simply can't force people to use a feature that they don't want to in replacement of another one (that we had not offered until 1.7.2 came out).

It will solve my concern, as currently, if I desire to increase pitch by 0.01% using my assigned control, there is nothing displayed on the screen.

(And this is one of my reasons that I still use only Scratch, when playing out.)



I can appreciate that from a marketing and support perspective, I suppose.

I'd imagine that there are plenty of DJs who dislike the idea of sync – due to the beliefs and associations it draws by the wider DJ community – but are happy to match the BPM, still believing that they're not using it! :P

Sooooo... any word on this feature being implemented soon? :)

Guys, I really want to migrate from Serato Scratch sooner than later, but my workflow is really restricted by the lack of pitch display.

Is this going to be a consideration — or better yet, reality — in the near future?

Please?!

Wait... I've had .00 enabled for almost a year. Have you even tried it recently?

imgur.com

Oh you want ANOTHER display. HUD is already too cluttered, good luck with that dude.

The option to which you're referring, relates to BPM display — not pitch.

Honestly?

Adding another decimal point, surely, is not going to create any additional clutter...

See screenshot: www.brendanclay.com

Alright, guys, after a bit of back-and-forth with Serato support over Twitter this morning, it has been suggested by them that, in an effort to expedite this "two decimal points for pitch" update into production, we should rally support around the thread and "bump it up".

If this is still a feature that you're looking for — as it should be, given that Serato DJ doesn't support it yet — please jump into my thread, post your desire in here, and let's get this happening.

For your reference, you can view the Twitter conversation here: twitter.com

Many thanks, in advance.

-10000

Thanks for the support.

Sorry but in the current situation Serato is not workable and I will switch to Traktor by the end of the year.

BPM is displayed in 2 decimals in the libary, but who cares about his?
The actual pitched BPM of the running track is displayed in 1 decimal.
Without continious adjustments of the platters 2 tracks with the same 1 decimal displayed BPM, WILL run out of 'sync'.
The pitch resolution really needs to be finer.

Any updates, guys?

Any update on the option of bpm to 2 decimal places?

It is already implemented. Just go to the setup and just activiate the 2 digit decimal places for the BPM's !

Scroll up, I made that comment they aren't talking about BPM they are talking about X.XX% on pitch/tempo slider.

I'd like to add that I'd like to see pitch with two decimal places. Coming from CDJs this has always been available on the CDJ screen and is a great way to visualize the changes you're making to the pitch fader.

I haven't switched to Serato DJ just yet, but does a two decimal place BPM accurately convey the most minute changes in the pitch slider? What I don't want to do is emulate the days when I was using 1200s and you had to tap on the pitch fader but you really weren't sure if it moved or not. Seeing the pitch % change on the screen tells you that you've in-fact moved the pitch fader from its previous position.

So, let's say I have a DDJ-SX2 and (hopefully) the pitch resolution is at least 0.02%, what does a change in 0.0x BPM represent in pitch percentage. In other words, if I change the pitch from 0.02% to 0.04%, is that change conveyed on the screen as a change in BPM? If not, that's bad!

While I'm not used to seeing the change in BPM (versus %), as long as there is something that changes on the screen to indicate that I've actually moved the fader the smallest increment available, I think I'd be ok with that. But if there's no indication that I've actually moved the fader, then we're kinda back in the dark ages of tapping on the pitch fader because we really don't know how much the fader has been moved when making that needed 0.02% adjustment to lock in the mix. I returned my CDJ 800s because the finest increment was 0.05% and some songs were impossible to beatmatch and would drift due to the increment being too large. Not being able to see the pitch increment would be just as frustrating and a beatmatching time-waster.

Also, I have no need to see decimals for pitch %/BPM anywhere other than the playing decks. This request is intended to provide the needed feedback so that the position and any changes made to the pitch fader are easy to figure out.

Thanks,
Mike

A little more to add to this conversation. While using the BPM value might work, having arbitrary numbers (i.e. 120.23, 120.44, etc) isn't very useful other seeing that the pitch changed. Seeing values similar to the Pioneer's implementation of 0.02, 0.04, 0.06 is helpful because it's consistent with the industry standard (Pioneer) and what people are already used to seeing. It would also be helpful when transitioning from CDJs to a DDJ controller as you'll be presented with similar values. Serato always promised to mimic the Pioneer feel, I hope they are willing to keep that promise.

While I haven't had a chance to try Serato DJ with HID on my 900s (just got my SL3 so I will try that tonight), I'm keeping my fingers crossed that controllers won't suffer from the same bug as described here:

serato.com

Thanks for adding your comments to this cause, mate.

As you'll see, this has been something I've wanted for a long, long time.

I'll do some more testing tonight now that I have an SL3 and I'm able to test Serato DJ. I was using ScratchLive before so we'll see if they've fixed the HID bugs from 3 years ago ;)

+1 for this. Two decimal places in the pitch readout would be very, very useful.

+1

So, I'm kinda on the fence about this one. Part of me is old school and I'm used to paying attention to the pitch value. But when you think about it, it's really just some arbitrary number that shows how fast or slow that track is relative to 0, and it's not particularly helpful other than somewhat being a reference, and that's only to the player, not the other decks.

On the other hand, now that software has gotten smarter and can accurately calculate BPM, it would seem that the trend is going to be to move away from pitch and do everything with with BPM, as is evident in the fact that you can barely even see the pitch because they make it so small. At this point is there even any reason to use pitch?

I think the only time pitch might be helpful is when you have a song that changes BPM, but at that point, are you even trying to beatmatch a song that changes BPM?

It's interesting because you don't even see any pitch indicators on controllers (no screen) so you have to rely on the software to give you your pitch fader reference, and in certain views it's only BPM. I do think it's *extremely* important that you have enough decimal places to know if a change has been made on the pitch fader, so I appreciate the two decimal places on the BPM.

Thoughts?

Thanks for the valuable feedback and contribution, Mike. You've clearly put some time and thought into it.

With that said, though, I respectively disagree. My personal belief — described above, too — is "anyone looking to match the BPM readings — rather than match it my ear — may as well just use the sync function[, which is] essentially what they're doing anyway, no?"

I don't personally want to use the BPM reading as, over time, I'll likely just to try to match it with the other playing deck — rather than listening hard for the subtle movements in the mix — which is likely going to make me lazier.

I do, however, want to see pitch readings so that the minor adjustments in pitch are visible to me when making a change.

Serato team, as you'll see, this request is getting a fair bit of traction now, so naturally, we'd love this to come up for consideration.

Thanks again.

Hmm... so that leads me to ask - is there any point in seeing both pitch and BPM? I wonder if the easier solution is to just give users the option to select BPM *or* pitch, with 1 or 2 decimal points. If you're using BPM, the pitch readout is pretty much pointless as it really has no relevance to the track that's playing - the only reason you look at it is to see if and how much you moved the pitch fader, but a change in BPM would tell you that you moved the fader as well. If you're watching pitch just to avoid BPM, then you're ignoring the usefulness of BPM (by choice) so why even see it. The nice part is it would clean up the display, too...

Yeah, agreed.

I'm happy to see whole BPM integers — e.g. 118, 121 BPM — as long as there are two decimal places for pitch: e.g. +0.02%, -1.14%.

I'm just saying one or the other, with one or two decimal places. Is there any reason to show both?

I'd still like to know the overall BPM of my set, sure — but I won't use that figure to beat match the next tune.

+100000

And also the possibility to hide bpm information

Brendan,

I totally get (and support) your purist approach to beatmatching and pitch control, and support your feature request. I just want to understand why you feel matching BPM is essentially using sync.

I've only been djing for a few months, granted I've been listening to the genre I play for 15+ years, and I've always followed DJ equipment/software/etc pretty closely. I've been playing around with beatmatching for years. I'm haven't ever pushed the sync button, and don't plan on it. I think the only acceptable time is when you're using 3-4 decks to live mash, play loops on top of the mix, etc.

I may be mistaken, but to use sync you've got to grid all your tracks properly and you from the little I've messed around with the grids and Serato's analyze, its not that accurate. Once this is done, you can use sync and everything matches up perfectly, yawn.

So if I don't use a grid, but I match the BPM to two decimal places, how is this basically using sync? Nothing is lining my tracks up for me, I push play, get the tracks lined up together, and adjust for any variations as I go.

I personally use two decimal places to save myself time of having to perfect match the tempo, and because the pitch adjust on the controller I use is not nearly as accurate as your CDJs. While you can argue that two decimal places on the pitch instead of the BPM isn't the same thing, but its basically math, and you can easily match up a two decimal percentage change the very same way.

I think its asinine to equate using the BPM/pitch lock to syncing songs up. It'd be like me saying if you're such a purist why the hell are you using software anyways?

G'day DMax,

Hope you're well, mate. Thanks for the feedback.

Our polarising opinions on this topic are probably down to generational factors. I totally understand why some may choose the sync option — I mean, if the technology is readily available and solid enough, why not use it? Indeed, I have seasoned colleagues — who have seen all of the different formats come and go over the years — who use sync as it allows them more time to focus on mix timing and track selection. That's fine; different strokes for different folks.

On the topic of watching a pitch reading with two decimal places: I'm definitely not using it to calculate the required pitch to match track 'A' to 'B' in my head on the fly. Rather, I'm looking for subtle changes in the reading to confirm that a movement of the pitch fader — faster or slower — has been recognised by the software.

For me, I consider beat matching as part of the challenge — and skill — of DJ'ing. Practicing it keeps my ears "sharp" and it forces me to listen harder to the music. Whilst it's a relatively simple skill to learn, you'll know that still, so many get it so wrong.

I suppose my aforementioned argument suggested that, if you're going to go to the "trouble" of matching the BPM readings by eye, well, you may as well trigger the sync function to do it for you. With that said, as you've mentioned, there is still the consideration of preparing your music for playback, if you're following that route.

On your last question, whilst I've enjoyed playing vinyl over the years — and particularly moreso recently — I love playing with Serato due to having all of my (digital) music available with just a few clicks. I don't believe the likes of Pioneer have nailed the library navigation workflow just yet — I often find that I'm unable to gain a high-level overview of my music the same way that Serato offers.

Really appreciate the time you've taken with your response, though. It's nice to see some healthy debate — and even movement in general — within this thread.

Hoping we see some action from a feature implementation standpoint soon! ;)

This is probably hands-down *THE* most logical reason to have two decimal places!! It is so annoying not to be able to have a decent feedback mechanism to know how much you've moved the pitch fader!

This also highlights another BIG problem with CDJs in HID mode as Serato has the sensitivity cranked too high and you get changes in pitch without ever touching the fader due to vibration. I confirmed this was happening in ScratchLIVE and it also happens in DJ. Having two decimal places is very helpful feedback when you're moving the pitch fader, which is probably the same reason that Pioneer includes that on their decks.

Btw, if you're curious, Pioneer's +/- 6% increment is 0.02% and in HID mode Serato uses 0.015% - if you don't show two decimal places in Serato, you can't see that. Anyways, it's bad, and hopefully Serato fixes this. While it's not directly related to this topic, it is still extremely important to have useful feedback as to what the pitch fader is doing, which also helps verify that the software/hardware is working correctly, which it currently isn't.

I still don't feel like you have answered my question. We don't disagree about sync usage, and I doubt there is a generational difference. I'm 32, hardly a kid.

Sync matches BPM's and then matches up your bars and keeps them together for you. No matter what you do to track 1, it will keep it synced to track 2. If your grids are off, I'm assuming that it will sounds like trash. If you have a track that the bpm changes, but you're grids are right, then track will stay in sync.

If I have no beat grid what so ever, but just match BPM up, how is that basically using sync? The program is not lining my tracks up for me, and its not keeping it synced up if the BPM of the track starts to change. Its literally impossible to get use the pitch adjust perfect because on the controller its not that great, nor long enough. On top of that, there is so much dead space in the middle and then it jumps .3-.4% as soon as you get out of the dead area. Half the time you can't even get the BPM perfect because it adjusts randomly from .02-.05. You can't get it to adjust .01 at all. So its possible to get tracks perfectly matched BPM wise, but sometimes its a lot of hassle.

I just can't equate what I am doing to using synced up beat grids. In the same token, whether you do the math or not, having 2 decimal places is basically the same thing, especially if you're playing a single genre with a pretty tight range. You'd see the same percentages repeatedly, without doing math anyways.

Go play with Sync a little, and tell me its the same as just dialing up BPMs.

Have a good night :D

I should probably clarify that, by "generational", I was referring to the amount of time spent mixing tunes. Perhaps not the correct word in this context. I don't mean to be condescending — and I apologise in advance if it seems that way — however; as you say, you've only been seriously playing for a few months.

Admittedly, as you can tell, I've not messed around with the sync function too much, though from what I've seen within the Serato options panel, there are different kinds of sync. In my elaboration, I'm probably referring to 'Tempo Sync': serato.com — whereby the tempo is matched, but the beat grids aren't locked in.

It's described within Serato's documentation as follows:



Indeed you might find that the aforementioned 'Tempo Sync' might save you some time in your workflow.



Well, it's not for me. Again, the idea of having two decimal places is down to a visual indicator of a finer pitch adjustment — 0.1% increments just don't cut it, as the supporters of this feature request will attest.

Occasionally, I will load a new tune to discover that the previous tempo setting is actually pretty close to "in" — but I'll still play the tune and listen hard to ensure that it does stay on beat and make any pitch adjustment as necessary. The tempo of my sets range from 105–125 BPM, so it doesn't happen all that often.

Thanks again for your responses and keeping this thread moving.

I haven't messed around with Sync either, it is just set to off. I didn't realize there were two types of sync, but I think there is a big difference in syncing tempo and using sync the way most use it to sync beats. If the pitch adjust was better on my controller, I'd certainly not just match up BPM's, but at this point its the best way, until I get better gear.

I agree 100% that you need two decimals places for the pitch as well and will continue to keep up with this so that hopefully this request comes to fruition.

Soooooo... Serato Team. Any luck with this one? ;)

I want a ZERO decimal point option like the "pure" form in SSL which is most similar to us who both started out and still use turntables. To me I think it would be a very simple code modification as all it is "rounding" depending on if you select "0", "1", or "2" option.

+100000000

I recently swapped to CDJ's so I honestly don't care, but they author of this post is an arrogant asshat. Re-reading his response to me over a year later, and when I have had more than just 4 months DJ'ing, its obvious how much of a jack ass that this guy is. If you need 2 decimal places for BPM or pitch %, you should take your own advice and just use tempo sync. If you were as pro as you try to sound behind the keyboard that wouldn't matter at all and you'd do it all by ear constantly adjusting the pitch and nudging the platters. You're such an elitist but are telling me that you want to use the screen to help you mix "by ear." Get out with that garbage.

Welcome back to the thread! Cheers for the bump.

Again, I'm requesting the visual display to indicate when an adjustment has been made to the pitch via my controller; I'm not looking at the BPM, which has been a common misconception of this thread.

As it stands, though; I've reverted back to using CDJs and vinyl and am enjoying myself on the 1s and 2s—as you say, using my ears to mix.

As such, this most pending feature request isn't a big issue for me any longer, as much as it was a couple of years back when I raised the thread.

If I require the use of Serato—at a longer bar gig, or what have you—I'll stick with Serato Scratch for now.

Thanks again for playing.