exactly why i'm trying get out of mainstream djing and moving on to performance style djing and production.

doesn't take a genius to play the top 300 songs from the last 2 decades in a decently progressive fashion.

Sure you have to have skill to do it well, but how many people that frequent top 40 bars actually give 2 shits if the DJ is actually good or not? They just want to hear their song and hear it next.

Thats true, so it should be easy to pull off - but I think computer could do a better job then most club DJs.

The computer already can type better THAN you.

:P

I don't think the computer will be able to do what I do unless it learns how to scratch.
Sure it may be able to choose songs and mix them but that will just
be it.

Perhaps the thread should say "... Better than a rookie DJ who only mixes"

And the % of the public that cares to see another DJ scratch is 0.000000001%

I would put scratching in the 'turntablist' category.

But the easy way to get a computer to scratch would be to record automation from a real dj. clean it up and keep it on file.

I think its the pioneer djm-1 with the "bpm gate" so you can scratch without touching the fader.

ether way, might it sound stale or whatever - sure. Is it a deal breaker for most club situations?
I dont think so.

To dj better than an experienced person a computer would have to be able to read a crowd, & that would be some serious tech right there.




This. I'm getting over it.

+1

I know quite a few dudes who been djing for years and don't scratch...and are pretty decent djs.




I think the computer will still need some user interaction from the manager/waitress/bartender - based on the type of crowd that is in attendance that night.. The could be accomplished by having like a touchscreen with buttons with LABELS for a specific crowd...
A) Urban
B) Mixed Crowd
C)Top 40
D) Fist pumping
E) Latin etc..
Once the button is activated the computer intelligent changes the selection list based on the activated button...

if the computer had heat sensors, it could tell if people are dancing or not

or cameras programed for movement, or motion detection, or a wrist band tracker

the computer might go to facebook pages to see peoples favorites.
it might remember who danced to what songs last week, even at other clubs
it might know whos birthday it is

it might read the crowd in ways a DJ never could

Watchvimeo.com

Still, I don't buy this, peoples tastes change in ways computers can't understand, new genres and styles spring up, others grow old. A computer can maybe sense that people aren't dancing, but it won't know why, it could choose it's next certified banger only to find it die coz that shit got old.

Computers a good for automated and repetitive tasks, if you think that covers everything you do in DJing, you may as well be working in a factory.

So the computer will know from one night to the next the changes in the crowd, it's ages, demographic, general mood, etc etc...? The answer to that question and many more is a definite no. Even if someone created a system that could even come close to a live dj it would cost a great deal of money and then the clubs and bars themselves would be responsible for finding music. We landed a man on the moon in 69 and 42 years later planes still need pilots, cars still need drivers, and bars still need bartenders...

If it was old, it wouldn't chart or be on other playlists. If it died in one club a plugged into the network computer would no about it. If it flops in a top rated club other computers would take that into account and adjust. You would have some clubs that tried new cuts, see if they worked, and other clubs that just played it supper safe by only playing shit that is currently working in all the other clubs.



lets not start with the insults

you are confusing computers with assembly lines.
They are good for storing large amounts of data and allowing it to be organized in meaningful ways rather quickly and accurately. Sharing data across remote areas. And with smartly programed algorithms they are good for combining large amounts of data into a decision. No two chess games are the same, but computers can beat humans easy. They can plot far ahead, and would probably have working set lists mapped out for the evening changing them on the fly if needed.

what this computer is doing is surely not a repetitive task
Watchwww.youtube.com

planes actually do not need pilots - people just feel better with a pilot. you have heard of auto pilot no? or drone military aircraft.

couple of days ago I was turned away from a bar because my license had expired. they were swiping everyones license as they entered and it would tell them lots of shit even if I had a warrant.

Is finding music really that difficult? What do you do - a search? easy.

not only that but if for some reason an old classic made it into a system and received a good response all the computers in the system would 'hear' about it instantly.

even clubs that let live DJs spin for some reason - what they are playing could be listened to and absorbed into the system. computer could go back and listen to 'classic mixes' floating around and chart them.

sure these systems might be expensive to start - yeah

It sounds like such a boring world, all the clubs just minute variations on each other, in a way, I think that already is a problem. So many clubs and bars just playing the mainstream, little variation, no one daring to step out their boxes, is it just the DJs giving the crowd what they want, or have DJs just got complacent?

We could argue a computer could theoritcally achieve sentience and put us all out of our jobs and turn us into batteries, does that make me worry if someone uses a sodding button to get their BPMs in time? No. It's hyperbole. The slope you think autosync is going to start, actually started when we started playing recorded music, music that is hard coded and unreactive to the crowd. Somehow though, despite the automatation of music, people still found a way to build a craft around it. We can chop it up, blend it together, add to it, but most of us wouldn't call ourselves musicians. As we automate one thing, some clever spark comes along and finds new ways to spend their time. The degree to which music can be manipulated only increases. Adding autosync doesn't simplify, it only changes and adds more control.

Why is everyone so concerned about embracing the "computer takeover" instead of helping preserve the art form. Guess what, if someone could simply press a command and the computer does the rest, believe they wont be hiring a "Dj" to do that. So while your all embracing technology start looking for a new hobby or part/fulltime job.

I watched a random playlist off of windows media player make some DJs sound like amateurs....

yeah.

Or maybe this system would be good enough to break out of that box depending on what the parameters are.



we could argue about sentience or artificial intelligence, but that would be a different story. I thing this can be done without it.

I dont think auto-sync is the start of a slope. But I do think that it is a very important mile stone. Doest mater because we passed it some years ago. Sure the start was with the phonograph, or the player piano, or the music box. ok

Notice that most DJs arnt really musicians. It could be in the next era people will still want a guy up there to say some shit. OR perhaps the local programmer and system tweaker will take the lead. I doubt it tho.

Right, the bar is very low - and the computers ability very high.

It wont happen till at least when battery operated cars are the norm. No one or company is going to spend the money on something that is going to take at least 5 years for R&D, build a prototype, test run, feedback and execute when all they need is some dude that says they are a dj and own a laptop. We took the jukebox out and that was a machine back in the 60s. Cover bands are being replaced by djs for weddings and other formal parties. I would rather focus landing the next major gig then worrying about a Johnny 5 or T-1000 rocking decks.

as far as R&D its been being done

this pdf has been posted to the form before, but check it out
www.google.com

drone planes have pilots.... they just aren't in the plane.... airliners absolutely can not take off and land on auto pilot as of now... and who cares if the bar can scan your I.D. to prove age can the scanner make your drink? you proved nothing with that entire statement. A club will always need a dj. (a real club). small bars and half ass wanna be clubs that only want to pay a dj 100 dollars can do what they want. A real club will always use a real dj. Why? Because the crowd is following the dj's energy. The Day I walk into Ultrabar in dc and the cameras the are projecting people like Scene, Enferno, Chachi and so on on the walls start projecting a Dell will be like the 9/11 of the club industry.

That is just like the iTunes library or Pandora by reading the genres played the most and setting a playlist for you. The automated dj has yet to be thought of to be sophisticated enough w/o having to rely on user feedback. The above is not a legitimate R&D inquiry to your OP.

Auto Pilot has been able to take off and land since the 1940s en.wikipedia.org
Completely Autonomous systems do exist thefutureofthings.com

You asked about reading the crowd, the demographic data taken from scanned DLs will tell a system the exact age m/f ratio, area, frequency of attendance, maybe where else the person attends etc. In the future it could look at your facebook preferences and so on.

You didnt read it did you?

user feedback - yes. But it does not need to be ported through a human. And it does not have to be human-like to operate.

E

This is irrelevant to the thread.

@ Roger Rabbit, decent is not good.

nm

I think it's definitely more complicated than that. Plus, you also have to think about budgets. You're talking about sensors, etc. that will definitely be costly. To your average club owner who has a problem paying a DJ in the first place, he/she won't want to invest too much on something that complicated to begin with.

+1

Sure, what we do as DJs is much more complicated. But I think they could get by doing other stuff extremely well.

As far as cost I would guess there would be different services from a simple camera that detected movement on the floor to a system that tracked each patron as they moved around the club.

But the real magic would be in the accessing and collecting data, analyzing feedback and turning it into algorithms that chose the perfect song.

Use a seismograph, get real time dancefloor feedback. Feed that into a ratings/song database. Include data such as time of night played, age of track, how many times played, etc etc etc. Build in a simple text request system.


Couple this with the data from the drivers license scans at the door recording demographic info,
and not only could it play the right tracks for the crowd, but it would even learn when to play them.

That wouldn't work. Let's see... the damn seismograph might confuse 10 fat bitches for 100. lmao!!!!

That pretty much sums it up for me. I can't imagine any of these setups would be cheap to implement. We all know how cheap and short sighted club owners and managers can be.

Im not sure what all the expense would be - to get it to work would mostly be software. The cheapest club owners would have no feedback system. It would strictly play hot shit at the end of the night. Collecting data on patrons - again not to expensive. Next level up would be cameras that watch for movement - pretty cheap. The higher end would be like an rfid bracelet watching system or whatever.

But even a system that did not collect any current feedback could still mimic the system of whatever hot club down block. Or the hotest club could even sale its data to other systems or some shit.

But at a minimum cameras watching the dance floor would be cheap.

in most clubs i play at i could program an itunes playlist that would could get the same reaction that i would djing. luckily clubs have bought into the idea that you really need a dj. fine with me.

It wont happen now that I think about it. Djs draw crowds not computers. The more well known the dj the better the club owner will see his revenue jump. A club promoting a software that basically keeps all info about you and selling data of you to 3rd party companies would freak people out. Club owners arent trying to be the Jetsons, they want shit rocking out and the dj is the rockstar.

I dont think there will be an end to star personalities or talking on the mic. Its not like there is going to be a computer screen with a digital readout siting in the booth instead of a guy.

And Im not talking about your personal data so your identity can be hacked. Im talking about the same shit millions of people share on facebook, or the simple fact that you used a credit card at a club, so what they know you came back. Shit like that is already in full effect - no one cares.

The DJ is a rock star, but so is anyone else with a name. Anyone else with star power can draw people too. The idea that you are the man because you control what song comes next will be over - thats all.

^ If you think its going to be over it wont be for a long time but personally knowing club owners and bar owners they arent going to do it. As long as Ibiza, Europe, Vegas, L.A., Miami and NYC rely on big name live djs this concept is going to be pushed aside like wind/solar power.

headlining djs draw crowds - maybe the top tier of locals, and then djs who focus on a particular underground scene or genre.

working stiff joe-blow who just play the same songs as everyone else likely aren't the reason most of the top40 donkeys go to those venues...

But those working stiffs also go to these top40 venues just because there is a dj. Take the dj away and people will look else where.

i mean "working stiff, joe-blow djs"

but these people aren't going to any top40 venue for djs - most of these people are going to drink, mac on chicks/get macked on, and sing along to their favourite song. The majority of these people won't know the difference between a computer cycling through the top hits and some dude cycling through the top hits. If you think that's not the case, you're fooling yourself.

No I know thats the case, the point I'm making is that whether it be a top name dj or a poser laptop dj, the fact of an actual dj being at a venue makes it more of a complete venue for people to dance, drink, mack and sing. It adds to the integrity of any venue. You take that away and people find out there is no more dj but just a computer(jukebox 2015) it wont be the same vibe.

Think of the electric car vs a gas car or even a hybrid. The electric car isn't really working as it should because the necessary elements to make it work aren't there. Too much shit to install everywhere and for what? a short ride? Same thing with DJing.... well kinda. lol

A.I. DJ Emplyed by Texas Radio Station.

www.geekosystem.com

Aritcle doesn't say anything about her playing music. Looks like the personality DJs should be the ones to worry....

who dont know club owners?

Its not going to happen over night like one night you show up and youve been replaced by some Hal9000 type shit sitting in your place with chicks gathered around it.

Its us that will be ushering that shit in, not any club owner.

- Shit why would I want to carry a bunch of vinyl when I can just bring these CDs?
- Buy a record? I just download shit
- Just pop open my laptop, fuck carrying any crates I carried plenty
- Why waste my time matching any bpms Its so easy I can spend my time doing other shit
- what? move the cross fader? why I already set the mix point it will go ahead and do it
- Back in the day I wasted all my time organizing mad files, why would I want to do that? they got them up in the cloud all ready to play
- Dude my time is too important to worry about manually controlling anything, just log on and it runs

Its not like all the sudden "DJs" are going to stop trying to take advantage of technology that makes shit easier and easier.

And if anyone is pushing it along its big name EDM (not hating) dudes.
Think about this Steve Angello situation - its ridiculous that he would have to even explain that he was not up there playing a pre-made mix. None of the audience could tell if he was or wasnt, really only he would know, and no one cares.
www.dumpert.nl
But at 9:50 he obviously is not the one pressing start. Did anyone in the arena notice or even care? No one gives a fuck .

Yes - if you have a big name that draws people, they will still pay you to stand on stage posing. But no one is going to give a fuck who chose the music being played.

Yes - if you are a producer or whatever people will want to come see you stand there posing while your tracks play - but do they really understand or give a fuck about what made one track blend into the next?

And if you are some kind of star they will come to see you pump your fist and say some shit on the mic while you watch what song is coming next.

^ You contradict the whole idea of a computer replacing the human with the above post. Before you said a computer would replace the dj and that all the cameras and sensors in the club would be all thats needed then you said above ^ . well which one is it? So even if a dj is playing a pre mix or if this so called super computer is going to control the dance floor, the presence of a human dj is still needed.

Its already been said in the past and now that most club goers dont care whose playing it but again back to my point that you seem to keep missing is the presence of a dj. No one in the crowd cares that Angello was faking the funk but they did care that he was up there.

"Its us that will be ushering that shit in, not any club owner."

Using technology to make djing easier is not the same as the concept you brought up. DVS programs having sync or the fact you can carry less equipment does not reinforce your argument as I said before and starting to sound redundant, the club will still use a live dj to control the crowd and to have stage presence.


As for personally knowing club/bar owners, Im talking about knowing them as friends on a personal level outside of the business and most that opened up a club already dumped 100s of thousands into the club and most would not pour another thousand to replace a dj with your super computer idea. Every business owner wants it cheap and most are conservative of spending more after the doors open to maximize their bottom end. The only way I see someone implementing your idea is a brand new club and the owner risking his newly establishment on a artificial dj. Could it happen, yes. Soon, no.

Ya but this statment blows your whole point, sure in the top tier markets people go to see the big name DJ but thats about 1% of the entire market, the vast majority of the country never even gets the chance to see a top name DJ play, most places have dj spin4drinks playing the same crap that everyone else in his city is playing, alot of those citys arent even lucky enough to have an underground scene

What I find laughable is the mentality alot of the DJs here have about how important they are the the situation, im reading how much it would cost to impliment sensors and seismographs and thermo vision ect.....you guys are approaching it from a "how do i replicate what the human dj is doing" perspective, when the truth is its alot easier than that, you dont replicate what the DJ is doing you retrain the crowd! You dont need ANY kind of high tech wizardry, outside of the top tier markets people arent going to the club to see a DJ they are going to drink, find people to have sex with, buy drugs, and hear music they know.

You DONT have to have and elaborite setup to read the floor and know whos dancing and scan id cards to find out what people like, NONE OF THAT MATTERS, you wanna know how i know, because ive been to a shit ton of clubs and 99% of the DJs have no idea how to read the floor, also I personally DJ in a club and have NO IDEA WHAT IM DOING. All you have to do is play the current top 15- 20 songs and people will have a great time and dance. All of this "the system wont know what to play" and "people come for the DJ" is BULLSHIT and if you want proof go to the stupidest request thread and read it for yourself, every monday that thread gets another 100 or so posts about people WANTING to hear the same song 6 times, and WANTING to hear "something they know" and that thread is FULL of djs who are either ignoring, berating, or straight out attacking the people. How can you say people go to a club because they can interract with a live dj then in another thread declare how important it is to keep people out of the booth and how you wont take requests.

So yes implimenting this system would be as simple as providing an auto updating intro in intro out downloadable library of the songs the labels want pushed, a system that sets up a BPM structure but BPM VS time of night that takes into consideration what hot song the labels want pushed on the radio. For instance if the labels decide they want the new pauly d lil wayne joint to be the next big thing they dump a ton into advertising, get it 80 spins an hour and play it in prime time int he system. The the program will be set up to sync it up and mix out after the second chorus.

Impliment this system in enough places use the money your saving to institute a great drink special and a ladies night and your golden, the girls will show up and act like sluts with or without the DJ guys will come to get drunk and try to fuck the sluts and noone will know the difference because theyve been trained, the same way radio trains them to only want to hear whats on the radio and like songs that they didnt like before just because they are being played 30 tiems an hour.

quoted for sad truth, in the end when it comes to kill our culture not only will we not fight it but it seems most of us will hold the doors open for it and carry in its stuff for it.

its acutually very relevant, when saying "a computer cant replace the dj because a computer cant scratch" you need to know what percentage cares about scratching, its like opening a steak restraunt and only advertising your salads, if your basing your worth on something people dont find valuable your not gonna get very far

I was using those places as an example for the rest of the world to follow the trend. Dives and shitholes are always so quick to advertise they have a dj even if it is a $50 dj. People talk and be like man I heard that shithole has a dj now, lets go peep. Even if these djs are using computers to cue the next joint, THE PRESENCE OF A DJ IS STILL THERE!

I disagree that people will come to terms with this new system because like most people that listen they get sick of songs pretty quick. They may love the new shit for a week straight but after that they complain about how radio sucks and the song is played out. This same mentality will carry over to this cyber disco.

Who said anything about Interacting with a live dj? The dj is not there to make friends, fans but not friends. Interacting to me is talking to the crowd, keeping it moving with hype drops and controlling the crowd with what you play and say. I never think of interacting as clubbers hanging around the booth talking the dj ear off about what they did over the week or blab up the next request. Although the latter is expected.

From what ive seen personally a fliers saying "penny pitchers and $1 well drinks" will bring more people in that "thursday night with DJ buttonpush"




I dont know where you play but ALL i get are requests for "something they know" or whatever was on the radio on the car ride over, im still getting requests for radio top 40 songs from 6 months ago, still getting S&M request (NH), still getting shots and party rock requests, still getting no hands and make it rain requests.
ect ect



hype drops and mic work, there are tons of threads on here about even DJs complaining about all that stuff, im 100% sure that crowds will not miss the DJ blabbing on the mic over all their fave tunes

From my experiences most club goers look at the DJ as a necessary evil, a system they can exploit, they hate 90% of what we do, they hate that we dont play the whole song, they hate that we try to introduce them to new music, they hate that we wont play a song 10 times in an hour, they hate that we wont play a 130 "techno" song and then a 80 bpm thug song back to back, but they know they gotta make nice and tell you how great you are because your a someone in the club and they want status and favors, just like they hang on the door guys, security and the bartenders.




I thought the same thing about the radio when they started only playing 6 songs OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, and i thought the same thing when all the clubs and bars in my area starting firing their DJs and using itunes playlists or brining in laptop DJs who were clicking next on winamp all night. Guess what, crowds didnt give a shit less because all these places popped up a drink special and a bikini contest and now they are alll jumping, there is no real "dj" so theres no rules to follow, people get the song they want when they want it, they just hear the current hot tracks all night and nothing new gets brought up. People here are lovin it and from a DJ perspective its a NIGHTMARE, imagine sitting in a bar at peak hour and hearing the cupid shuffle trainwrecked into all i do is win, then next tracked into the stank leg, next tracked into party rock and seeing the crowd LOVING IT

"From what ive seen personally a fliers saying "penny pitchers and $1 well drinks" will bring more people in that "thursday night with DJ buttonpush""

Think of what would happen it it said "penny pitchers and $1 well drinks w/ dj.

"I dont know where you play but ALL i get are requests for "something they know" or whatever was on the radio on the car ride over, im still getting requests for radio top 40 songs from 6 months ago, still getting S&M request (NH), still getting shots and party rock requests, still getting no hands and make it rain requests."

Doesnt mean you have to play it and also the cyber dj sounds like it would play those songs more than once in a night. That shit gets old and lame and people will hate it. GIrls will even be like this song again 2 hours later after hearing for the 4th time.

"hype drops and mic work, there are tons of threads on here about even DJs complaining about all that stuff, im 100% sure that crowds will not miss the DJ blabbing on the mic over all their fave tunes"

Everyone hates a dj that constantly talks over music, Im talking about spitting shit right before dropping the track or a party break where you're say (insert city name) make some fucking noise. That kinda talking, not the where my dogs at where the ladies at blah blah blah 1 minute into the song.

"thought the same thing about the radio when they started only playing 6 songs OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, and i thought the same thing when all the clubs and bars in my area starting firing their DJs and using itunes playlists or brining in laptop DJs who were clicking next on winamp all night. Guess what, crowds didnt give a shit less because all these places popped up a drink special and a bikini contest and now they are alll jumping, there is no real "dj" so theres no rules to follow, people get the song they want when they want it, they just hear the current hot tracks all night and nothing new gets brought up. People here are lovin it and from a DJ perspective its a NIGHTMARE, imagine sitting in a bar at peak hour and hearing the cupid shuffle trainwrecked into all i do is win, then next tracked into the stank leg, next tracked into party rock and seeing the crowd LOVING IT "

There's still a human clicking.

see your adding credit to my point, you just basically said you dont have to do what their asking for, your going against the customers wishes because of our DJ code, the computer wont do that. You also say people will hate hearing the same songs 2 times a night, thats VERY incorrect because people listen to the same song on the radio about 5 times in an hour. As a matter of fact ive had several nights where i was just ready to leave and dropped the same tracks over and over and peopel LOVED it. As a dj who listens to these songs all the time you hate it but for the joe average club goer they dont really care


so your saying that "alabama make some noise" will make or break a club? Hell you can program the computer to throw drops in



not in all cases there are plaenty of bars and clubs here using mixmeister and itunes playlists

Im saying all this from personal experience, hearing someone from NY or LA or Miami talk about stuff like this is like hearing someone with a billion dollars in the bank talk about the problems of the poor. Im CURRENTLY LIVING in the world of the DJ apocolapse, im in the worst case senario, im IN the remains of the battle the DJs DIDNT win

"see your adding credit to my point, you just basically said you dont have to do what their asking for, your going against the customers wishes because of our DJ code, the computer wont do that. You also say people will hate hearing the same songs 2 times a night, thats VERY incorrect because people listen to the same song on the radio about 5 times in an hour. As a matter of fact ive had several nights where i was just ready to leave and dropped the same tracks over and over and peopel LOVED it. As a dj who listens to these songs all the time you hate it but for the joe average club goer they dont really care"

You answered this one on the above post and also from my experience as a clubber not the dj, Ive heard random people complain about a dj repeating songs let alone a set. 2 weeks later he was canned

"so your saying that "alabama make some noise" will make or break a club? Hell you can program the computer to throw drops in"

Seriously? If you cant get the gist of my post pertaining to this then I dont know what more I can say


I have seen bars use mixing programs but this is more about clubs. Never seen a club even if it was a sweatbox I never seen a mixmeister program running the show. Been to Orlando, Vegas, ATL, Chicago and never seen or heard repeated songs or a computer controlling th crowd

Ive heard people in the crowd complain about damn near everyting, no matter what random people will complain




so you know he was cannned because someone in the crowd complained about a song being played twice? That could be another selling point to the software, the option to turn on or off multiple songs durring a night, that way you dont have to worry about your dj disobeying






If it can work in a bar why not a club? The reason you havent seen it is because we are discussing a software that hasnent been created yet. But if you want the beginings to it I KNOW there are DJs in those citys that use premade mixes, and celeb DJs who use auto sync or ghost djs.

Let me get this straight, so this debate is about a software doing the job for you or a computer doing your work and you not being needed?


"
so you know he was cannned because someone in the crowd complained about a song being played twice? That could be another selling point to the software, the option to turn on or off multiple songs durring a night, that way you dont have to worry about your dj disobeying"

He was canned for being like a radio jock. Repeating sets and repeating songs. More than 1 person complained and how I know this is because I was offered his job.

Bezzle is actually correct about something for once.

yes



Well in the future whoever canned the guy would set the repete songs per evening setting to - 0

Problem solved

one leads to the other, as the software becomes more advance it does more and more of the work for you, the more work its doing for you the less skill the operator needs, this is when they start hiring dual security\djs to pick songs and push buttons, once thats common and the program becomes more advanced then you dont need the operator anymore. Just look at the level of difference between a DJ in 95 and a DJ in 2011, now EVERYONE is a DJ, supply and demand tells us that the more of us there are the less in demand we are and software is making it so ANYONE can do it .




what market is this in because every club ive worked in has PUSHED me to just play songs people know and play them multiple times because more people complain that they want it like that, their USED to radio style because theyve been trained to expect that

the 1st step towards getting replaced at a job is believing you cant be replaced

Yes to which question?

"what market is this in because every club ive worked in has PUSHED me to just play songs people know and play them multiple times because more people complain that they want it like that, their USED to radio style because theyve been trained to expect that"

Theres a difference between being a straight up wack radio jock at the club or a 40 dj with some flare. He was canned because it was all repeated nonsense on almost the same identical order.

you didnt answer my question though

The answer to your question is "both"

Maybe the problem here is that you seem to think a human playing a pre-made mix is DJing.



Yes he was up there NOT DJing.

No one said the computer is going to replace FAME. or make people not care about it.

The nature of fame is changing too. Antoine Dodson performs at the BET awards. Could be that in the people who become famous will show up at clubs to """DJ""" and stand there posing while music plays. Isnt Paris Hilton a """"DJ"""" ?



You are confusing a 'person who has stage presence' with a DJ.

Yes, if computers do more and more work, there will come a point where they do all the work.



ha yes I have "friends" who own bars and club

And you are making the point - club owners will not "pour another thousand to replace a dj". Would that be a thousand dollars ever? Or would that be a thousand ever a year? Or a thousand dollars a month? Even a week?

What club owner would NOT drop a thousand dollars to get rid of a DJ. They would LOVE to drop a grand to quit having to pay these fools $100 a night.



yes to both - whats the difference?

I just had the weirdest case of deja vu

Actually, very irrelevant. No one can replace ME. I'm sure a lot of machines can replace you though.

you sure?? tinyurl.com

the tech already exists to make the software powerful enouh to know when someone in the crowd is givingthe stink face

news.yahoo.com

Dude a computer won at Jeopardy, beating out the shows highest money winner ever 3 nights in a row, to think that it cant be programmed to pick 200 songs a night for drunk people is friggin ridiculous.

Wow people are slow. Now youre twisting words to make it sound like Im saying celeb djs or other posers are djs. W/e this argument is going nowhere. Bottom line no club owner is going to put an AI system in his club anytime soon.

A computer will never replace a human intuition let alone a dj's or crowd read.

keep telling yourself that

Depends what you are calling soon. Next week? No
eventually yes


human intuition? no
computer simulated intuition? yes
read crowd? yes

Im about to make someone here a millionaire with this idea: Someone needs to write a program that utilizes the xbox kinect camera to monitor the dance floor for movment and read the stats then give song suggestions to beginners who are fuckin up, it will scan the floor, see lack of movment and a little paperclip can pop up and say "great set buddy but its slowin down lets pick it up with this track? Take sugggestion yes or no"

3 quarters of DJs working right now also dont know how to read a crowd and have terrible intuition, so crowds wont notice a difference lol

I dont think the question is IF they will ever automate the system, the question is how many drinks minimum will the computer work for lol

I think some people get confused when we say "the computer can do this without you". There will always need to be some human interaction. However that interaction will change to be someone doing database optimization/pruning, it will be backend stuff.

We are not saying the computer can get setup and on day 1 do your job better than you. But to think this cannot be programmed is foolish. Just kicking around ideas here we have basically figured this out on a DJ forum in our downtime while shooting the shit. Imagine if someone actually pumped R&D money into this idea.

So those 3/4 should ruin it for the rest of the good djs? Yes embrace technology that will kill this art.

Sounds like some of you are preparing for the ultimate destiny of the club dj to go out like an 8 track player.

everyone on this board is a DJ - no one is WISHING for this shit

lol dude im not saying embrace technology at all imon your side about the culture and the art and all that, im just being realistic on the fact that it CAN and WILL happen if we dont start giving a damn, walkin around with your nose in the air sayin it cant happen to me this will never happen aint helpin anyone

very untrue, there are plenty of people on this board who suck and are in it for the money and are yappin at the teeth ready for this software to take over so they can sit at a desk in the club, make money, and sound just as good as everyone else with 0 practice

haha - yeah those people dont count




I dont know why any one thinks talking about it is wishing it happens. I find it interesting, but I would switch back to vinyl today if it would stop it from happening.

I skimmed thru and this is exactly why it is so important to preserve our culture. The technology is there, I remember being in college for architecture 6-7 years ago and people where already working on human sensors to sense your mood, thru body temperature, face recognition..etc. Also it was pretty cheap. All a club would have to do is use a program similar to Pandora, but a little more sophisticated.

That is why I started the Turntables forever Thread, we need to preserve our culture and the skills to be good at what we do.

THIS!!! +1000000000

Its gonna be sad when the day comes that you show up for an "audition" and instead of playing their looking at your school transcripts and you dont get the job because you havent had enough C++ experience

MATRIX

This...

There are a ton of ideas that are awesome... but the key is: Will they really ever be implemented in a real-world setting that would be cost-effective? Because with club owners, that will always be the bottom line.

The problem is the whole idea that you still need a person to control this. In that case, why have all the middle super expensive shit when you can just have a DJ or someone who thinks he/she is one. lol

Let's think in terms of Radio stations... which is a good example in my opinion. There are computers that already play everything. The program director programs the songs, the computer does its thing. It throws commercials, etc. at the right time. However, the station still needs on-air personalities. It's that simple.

Same with DJing... well kinda. lol

No computer-only hour on radio has ever beat the ratings with an actual show where there are people interacting with each other. Calls coming in, etc.

Same with the clubs... the crowd likes to come up to the DJ and try to convince him to play his or her songs. Sometimes it takes tits. Sometimes it takes money. A computer can't do shit with tits or money. lol

thats because people are in the car goin places and wanna hear people BSn, in a club where people wanna drink, dance, and get on bitches interaction isnt as necessary

Another good example... there are vending machines everywhere. Not one beats the taco truck.

no you really dont

Are you following the same thread? Because many people have agreed that you need someone.

we aint got taco truck in alabama but i can get the same store bought burrito that you can from walmart and i bet their sales numbers are higher lol

for what?? you really dont need anyone to run it

You ain't got a taco truck in alabama... so you can't even comment on what my point is.

Btw, keep eating those garbage burritos from the frozen isle. They're gross!!!!

your point is theres someone needed, i just illistrated why there isnt

i agree...BUT PEOPLE EAT THE HELL OUT OF THEM, take away taco truck and burrito sales DONT STOP they just eat whats there, same as automating the dj, will the final product be as good HELL NO, will people still go clubs if thats whats avaliable...YES!!!

Bottom line will always be $. Want another real-world example?

Video mixing. I remember in 1998 when the manager at our club went to Vegas and came all excited talking about how video mixing was the next thing. Yes. It was but not at the cost of 10K DVD players. It took SSL and other more cost effective programs to make it a reality.

Like I said... you can't comment. That isn't the point. The point is that you cannot beat freshness. (scratches the Fresh sample on the turntables) FREEEEESH!!!

YOU CAN BEAT FRESHNESS like i just said, we dont have fresh tacos here so people buy frozen, same thing with entertainment, if they cant get quality theyll go for whats there

and i BET that even where there is a taco truck, theres a shit ton of fams with a freezer full of frozen burritos because either A) they cant afford taco truck or B) they just dont know know better. Thats where im saying owners can get this system for next to nothing and hit em with mad drink specials and fill up the place with people who dont knopw the difference between a dope DJ and a mixtape, theres PLENTY of em out there, pauly D sellin out shows, if that can happen a comp can be a superstar

Now you're going sideways... the people can't choose. It's about the owners. They want DJ's that are affordable and they can get them very cheap. Why spend thousands to try something that isn't the real deal, spending thousands when you can achieve it by paying a dude very little money.

Now if we're talking about mobiles... the DJ rules. Even if it's some dude just sitting on his ass pushing play. nm

Stop right there. You know that's impossible. We were talking about sensors and all kinds of shit, now it's NEXT TO NOTHING? Stop playing just to try and win an argument.

it wouldnt cost thousands of dollars, a few hundred at most, and even if it was a $1000, your paying a dj what $300 a night? thurs - sat thats $900 right there, so with 1 weekend of DJing you could pay for the system then you SAVE $2700 a month. All these people are talkin about sensors and seismagraphs and whatnot, NONE OF THAT IS NEEDED, the people are sheep just throws some top 40 or whatever genre you want the night to be and let the computer do the rest

Whoa? I'm sure you're getting ahead of yourself. Tell me how you KNOW this system costs $1000 dollars?

lmao!!!!!!!!!!

YOU DONT NEED SENSORS, if you just play the hits people WILL dance especially when their drinking, ive seen WACK! DJs (including myself) who have no idea how to read a crowd just play hits and people dance all night long, most people just wanna hear the shit they know get shitfaced and find someone to go home with.

Oh yeah, nevermind. It's a jukebox. Oh yeah, there are no jukeboxes in clubs FOR A REASON. lmao!

The whole idea that THERE IS A DJ usually makes the party. Even if it's wack. Trust me on that one. Put a jukebox in its place.... the party won't happen even it plays the same songs.

as i just mentioned theres no sensors or infared or high tech facebook scanners, just a piece of software that can mix 2 intro outro songs together, mabye slam a few tracks if necessary that has a database on what all the major hits of the last 3 years were

because a jukebox CANT MIX RECORDS

Okay, BREAK IT DOWN FOR ME.

Where did you come up with the $1000. I'd like to know.

Break it down...

theres plenty of jukeboxes in clubs, half of em are members of this forum LMFAO!!!

please show me where i said this system would cost exactly $1000

Okay... here's the line.... you actually said a few hundred. lmao!!!!!

"it wouldnt cost thousands of dollars, a few hundred at most, and even if it was a $1000"

Show me a system for a few hundred dollars that claims to replace the DJ at a club......

successfully.

Please break it down for me. After you buy the cheapest computer, tell me how much you have left to make it all work.

hell even if you DID install sensors it wouldnt raise the price THAT Much, look at the xbox 360 kinect camera, thats what a few hundred bucks and can identify who the user is on site and read their facial expressions, make 3d images of rooms, give you a minority report style keypad and all kind of other shit. I gaurentee you some 18 yr old haxor can build drivers for that kinect camera would would read a crowd fairly accuratley.

Btw, one of the clubs I DJ'ed at 2 years ago had a system that was cheap enough to do the job you claim it will do. I believe it was virtual DJ on a desktop computer. Oh yeah, that's right. It didn't work. That's why they hired me to DJ.

And even THAT system cost more than a few hundred dollars. Now, throw video into the mix cause remember, a lot of clubs now want video.

So no breaking it down for me. I thought so. Moving on.

Everything is SO EASY in theory.

The computer isnt in the cost becaus emost clubs have computers already but as far as the acutual system we re talking about as ive said all your doing is buying a piece of software, basically advanced mixmeister with a record poos subscription, mixxmeister with video is 399, so an advanced version of wahat im talkin about mabye $600 and the xbox kinect cam is $115, 2 of those and your done

well shit we talkin about something that is GOING to happen, sorry i cant give you exact prices and spec on a product thats prob about 5 years out lol

You better adjust that time line. I believe this here topic has been around for at least 5 years already.

yes shit is expensive at first - I just copped a 2 TB drive for $70.
who even heard of such a thing ten years ago?

yes - you might always need a guy standing up there posing and saying some bullshit on the mic.
If there is a personality up on the stage or not does not really matter.


And its US DJs bringing the computer into the club


There are about 52,000 "DJs" right now wishing auto sync worked better, and hoping they wont have to mess around with a cross fader anymore, and cant wait for the songs to download automatically, and will play every single song the system suggests, and will be on facebook all day blabing about there event and be piss drunk fist pumping and trying to grab bitches ass and let them say shit on the mic - and pass out at 1:30 (no the party dont stop) and get carried home by three skeeming trannies.... and he leaves his laptop. <--- thats how the club owner gets the system, wont cost shit.


[nm]

and look how far techs come since then, the link i posted earlier has sun glasses that can read people facial expfressions and give you a readout on what they think about you, the xbox kinect can turn on when you walk in front of it and identify you by your facial expressions and generat a 3d computer character that resonds to your movments. You CANT sit there and tell me this isnt doable in 5 years

/url?q=www.psfk.com


/url?q=hacknmod.com

We will talk in 5 years. Someone make this a sticky. lol

There is a lot of technology that has been around for many years to do all sorts of other things that still haven't happened. The reason? Not just one but many... cost effective being one. The others, well, we already went through some of them.

for one thing there is a market for it
If so called DJs (the fools being replaced) are begging for all the shit features that will make the system possible then there is plenty market for it.

auto-sync
auto-mix
auto-selector

those already exist in software now - just need to be refined

an ID scanner
a couple cameras

everything else is software

An xbox kinect camera can already identify individuals and detect heat

kinda scary to think that the computer will take over us djs, with the prototype name arnold.

I believe this can happen, but you're ALWAYS going to need a human to run this technology. He might not have to be a DJ, but you'll still need to pay him (probably more than an average DJ) to operate, update, etc. Most likely will come with an optional service contract that'll cut into profits as well.

Most of the time a DJ runs solo, and is usually paid under the table and too small amount of cash to consider this type of system. **NOT IN EVERY CASE** but I think you get what I'm trying to say.

i just wanna do aerobics and talk on the mic to a pre made mix ala steve angello.

Add in futuristic technology like upon entry, the person has an electronic license, that ALSO happens to have a playlist of their favorite songs, swipe that puppy and then the computer can cater to those SPECIFICALLLY in the crowd.

No more having to "read" the crowd, it already knows what they like...

Also, a weighted dancefloor to add in who is actually dancing...

Yep, it's comin...

Amen

Arrgh, I'll be back...Money calls.

This wouldn't work. Why? How many times does an owner say "I don't want the hood element in this club or whatever." So, what if there are only people who listen to rap on the dancefloor and they had their electronic license read. Oops. Too bad, dancefloor is empty.

Also, how many times would a person try to have something played that's off the wall. Not even club material to get the club bumping. This is where the DJ is very important.

There are less and less people that care about the music now than ever before.

Payola killed it all.

Hood Element? Stop playin... They can screen that out at the door.

On top of that, the OWNER can customize the DO NOT PLAY LIST...so there goes the "Hood Music" threat...

Also, the "Off the wall" music would NOT be played...but moreso something like, 10 people come in, and 5 of them have some Beyonce' song on there...factor in Billboard stats, station rotations, weight reaction on the dancefloor....

Man, it's all numbers...and algorithms.

theres no requesting, it would depend on how many people had it on their card, or if the labels wanted it play.

so the "problem" is that the crowd the owner dosent want there isnt happy??? VS a dj who will still cater to that crowd regardless of what the owner says because he has a "rep". Wheres the downside of this system again

+100

nt


A) you wouldnt always need a human B) if you did how hard is it to tell the bouncer or bartender he\y if this happens click this....you dont have to add pay to tell a employee to do something new

The whole point of a system like this would be that ANYONE could run it. This is the direction we are headed with each feature software companies add that do the work for you. And ANYONE will be able to afford it.

Technology is the ultimate under cutter, always has been. Nothing different here.

Whoomp! There it is.

If you're into technology like a select few of us, (way beyond just knowing how to manage music on a laptop), you already know where this is headed.

You'd know that music control has been taken out of the hands of the DJ, and put into the control of the consumer. That's ipods, internet downloads, downloadable "DJ" software, youtube, Napster (and the like), Shazzam, and anything that stops the DJ from being the "Go To" guy for music.

You already know that if all it takes is a good DJ to "Sell Out" and work with a Super Geek to replicate his record hand and fader movements, that it WILL happen. Most cats have a price, or will feed into the idea of being forever Immortalized within some brand of DJ software.

You already know that the setup of equipment is getting easier and easier. Powered EVERYTHING, no knowledge of 3 or 4 way systems needed. No amp/eq configurations, or very minimal at least.

You already know that "Exclusitivity" is out the window. No more of "we have to see DJ Such and Such" to hear that "Exclusive" song....

Remember that? No more... SOMEBODY has that song in electronic format, and made a copy of it. The only way to get around this, is to be your own creator of music and/or have those DJ Enferno type live remix shows...

Stay tuned.

DJSIXXXMARKER


I will check back on this thread in 5 years.

Aphex Twin uses Facial Recognition to add to his set, it's a good example of how a technology can be used to extra effect by a DJ or producer. It hasn't replaced him, he's found a way to use it to distinguish himself from other DJs. When you level the playing field with technology, people then look to exploit the technology to distinguish themselves in new ways.

Watchwww.youtube.com

Pretty sure he's been using autosync for a while, but he was always one to take something ordinary and fuck about with it to make it do things it was never designed to do. DJ culture came out of people making turntables do things they weren't originally designed to do, I see no reason why the trend won't continue with new technologies, unless people start requesting software that restricts possibilities, rather than adding them.

There will probably always be a niche market for DJs as performance artists but with enough information and algorithms a computer will certainly be better at picking music.

A well catalogued music database with a good software who needs a lame ass Djs......lol

Don't think so, they still only pick up on trends, but people still make those trends, not computers.

yea but the people making those trends are now the masses - not the dj (at least in the mainstream scene).

Ever since the majority of DJs started only catering to their crowds rather than taking risks, DJs have become reactive to the trends rather than setting them...

I would say that's the main problem, i don't see how worrying about autosync, or super intelligent dj systems is going to change that.

computers can fallow any trend online

Again, that electronic license with the PLAYLIST would be more accurate than someone's "opinion" of what the crowd would enjoy.

You can't look at someone today and determine if they're a HipHop, Top40, Dubstep or Underground fanatic anymore...

Many underestimate the power of INFORMATION and technology.

Man, all they need is a SERVICE to interact with the latest music, or certified bangers that would work....

Y'all actin' like the DJ can't be come extinct.

Please look at how technology has REPLACED PEOPLE in various jobs over the years...

That mention about working in a factory above? MOST PEOPLE have been REPLACED by automation....

WHY? Because it can work 24/7, with minimal supervision, no days off, and won't ask for a raise...

What makes you guys think for 1 second that a COMPUTER can't be better than the latest wave of "Celebrity DJ's" that have been flooding the market?

the last of us DJs will by playing real sets in the club and that thing will be listening/watching for ideas and shit.

Or, some DJ will have a "Price", interact with the SuperGeek, and create a model of himself within the software...

I mean, look at these Video games nowadayz? How all the players are mimicked, but in video land?

Y'all can't be serious...

I work in automating systems with software, much of my work is at users requests, and there's a saying in software development:

Make something idiot proof, and the world will build a better idiot.

It sounds negative, but people always, always, find a new ways to fuck with my carefully thought out processes.

Most peole have not been put out of work by automation, I know you lot in the US are gong through a bad time at the mo, but they've been put out of work by people, not by machines.

not even close to true automation is the cause of TONS of job losses, look at things like car assembly line, or how about blockbuster going out of busniess to redbox, do you have any clue how many people lost their jobs to the redbox system??

OK, this is making me that doing djing is kind of like working at blockbuster. I do DJing part time, for love, don't imagine applying for a job a at video rental shop to do that

But yeah, even then, you're right, I guess I sound like the worse kind of libertarian. But when it comes to DJing, rather than worrying about the tech that can replace me, I'd rather look at how I can use that technology so it can't

bloody hell, where's the edit button?

OK, this is making me think that doing djing is kind of like working at blockbuster. I do DJing part time, for love, don't imagine applying for a job at a video rental shop to do that

You can't be serious...

Factory workers, textile, assembly line, even telemarketers...

Again, automation is GREAT, but it comes at a steep price.

see above post, also.

I suppose so, but we pay the price, our whole world is a house of cards, we all stand on others shoulders.

As DJs, have we replaced musicians? How many musicians did the amplifier replace?

Think of samplers, DAWs, MIDI, the entire music industry should be run by machines already.

Might be a little drunk and feeling philosophical

DJs replaced musicians and built a culture out of it. Computers will do it without building a culture.

Computers aren't yet sentient or somehow seprate from any other tool(for the moment?). they're as mechanical as a magic musical machine that plays music when you feed it records.

That's why they won't build a culture

I think you just contradicted the thread title.

I don't think so. How?

How you define "better than"

Well the first post was an explanation.
It will select songs better (like beating humans at jeopardy or chess)
It will sync better (instantly)
It will mix better (as in it won't need a couple extra seconds to choose a song)

I don't think a computer can mix as good as Jason Jollins. It may actually be able to scratch and do some tricks better than mixing flawlessly.

Never heard of him - what does he do so well?

But seriously, It would not surprise me if the next Pioneer 'invention' involved automation with CDJs working in tandem with a DJM mixer with motorized faders to mix tunes automatically. They would advertise it as a solution to DJs needing to take a bathroom break. BPM detection is already pretty darn accurate for house and techno. Lucky for me, I spin dnb.

He's a NYC dj. The boy can mix really well. Better than most djs. Compared to him, I am probably 5/10 with him being 10. I have been djing for over 20 years.

it's not like dnb beat detection is all that off - the hardest part is determining whether it's 175 or 86 bpm and that's simple as plugging in a bpm range...

let me preface by saying that i did not read the debate raging above.

NO computer could ever do what i do on two techs and a mixer. ;)

A lot of detectors get the BPM detectors get the it completely wrong ( not suitable for bet mixing) even within the 160 to 180 BPM range. It depends on the specific tune. Give it a couple of years and it will be perfected. That'll likely be the time when Pioneer will roll out the automated DJ profile ;) then everyone will be talking about the manual way of djing and the automated way of djing...It is just speculation, but I am not that far off.

most beat detection for dnb i've found is fairly accurate - even with the more complex early 90s jungle and ragga sounds. The only tracks I see that almost consistently see being off are tunes with that syncopated dancehall-y rhythm in it... (for instance, Chasse & Status - Duppy Man to name an old example).

When was the last time you actually heard of a new R&B BAND being created?

Nobody "creates" music with musical instruments anymore, at least in the Mainstream Genre...where have YOU BEEN?

Hell, they barely SAMPLE BEATS anymore....

Oh, one more thing...

Right now, a sketchy thing is this whole BPM thing, and how it's interpreted by whatever software.

Imagine the DJ game once they start importing the BPM's actually IN THE SONG when they release it.

What could be more accurate than the actual company that releases the song, including an imbedded metronome in the song that would allow for perfect "Automated" mixing?

Man, y'all just don't know.

www.mtv.com

You couldn't be so wrong.... How many bands are out there that are mainstream? Think Rock bands. Unless, you don't think of Rock as being mainstream?

This argument is getting ridiculous. Last time I looked factory still had workers even if there is a lot of automation. Remember, automation takes over but NEVER completely.

No but it does reduce the number of people needed as well as lowers the amount of skill a duty requires to be performed.

Think thats right around the time his beats started to get wack.

That's why I said -

Correct... but the argument was because someone said that the DJ replaced musicians... which I think it's completely untrue.

Oh yeah, cause companies NEVER make mistakes...

Remembers all those records released as "clean" that were dirty.

Or those that were label just wrong...

lmao!!!!

I just wanna see this computer or system or whatever you want to call it take over the clubs in 5 years. I already put my marker there. nm

noone said they would take over clubs in 5 years

In the club. As many musicians as there are today working there would be five more for each DJ out there.

Yes people still want to see a human perform thats why we still have musicians. but not in the club. people in the club dont give a shit about that.


The bar gets lower and lower and lower.
While the 'ability' of computers is increasing and increasing.

Those two trends have generally not changed for years. Maybe there will be a resurgence of the turntablist or whatever. But most people are just dumb nowadays.

Too lazy to search...

yup thats my argument, most people are dumb nowadays

You're wrong.... Well, I don't ever recall a club having musicians.... But, you still see plenty of bars with live musicians ALL THE TIME. Well, in Cali anyway.

This ain't the 50's... lol

lol the 50s

ask johnny im sure he was alive and clubbing when bands were big in clubs back in the 1700s

hahaha

Here you go Bezzle...

Ummm...it would be the HUMAN that designated the label that would have caused the error...but this isn't even about computers NOT being able to make mistakes..

That's like saying it would never break.

How many times does SSL get the BPM wrong?

Plenty

DUH, the reason for why I said that the actual MAKERS of the SONG would be able to imbed the TRUE BPM into the file...

Man, keep up...

I said the PRODUCT WILL BE AVALIABLE in 5 years, not a full scale take over. Reading is fundamental.

+1



if its wrong it gets reported and someone in tech support remote logs in and changes it to the right value....so there you go DJs will be needed.....in a cubeical in whallawhalla washington answering phones and using remotelogin to change BPM variables, so there we go you guys are right djs will be needed....smh

Reading IS fundamental. You did NOT SAY the product will be available.....

And, I did not say it will be a full scale take over either.

.... That's the problem with implying things. I just quote exactly what you said.


Like I said, I already have a marker. I wanna see this product in five years.

also

? I'm just going to keep quoting stuff then.

No


idea


where


you


are



going


with


this



------
/end of thread for me.

Will check back in 5 years.

The bpm being incorrect will show up when it tries to blend. Or when the song shows up in mixes being blended with some other bpm. Or if detects a train wreck. Or killks the dance floor. The system would use lots of different ways to flag improperly tagged files. Some human some place central or on the seen will correct the error and the patch will propagate through the entire system.

but probably labels will try to release their music in correct specifications if they want there shit played by the system

THAT'S where I see this going. It's too easy. Also, wait until the labels get the bright idea of "Quantisize"? (whatever that thing is that you guys do to map out live or off beat drums, so you can mix easier) their music, or past releases....

There is a REAL thin line separating music from technology....

Music will soon enough become "Technology"...

Oh, and DRM WILL be back in full effect....WOTCH...

They pulled the trigger too early before....but now they're allowing for EVERYONE to go digital, put music on clouds and whatnot, and for the turntable to become....

lol...

Extinct.

WL <---

+1, its about labels getting control back, theyll be able to put songs THEY want pushed in the playlists and they can pay the company $$ to have their songs pushed into heavy rotation. Also they could add info to the song that certian songs should be played before or after so the songs are presented in a way THEY want, hell they can even set mix in and out points so the songs are presented in what they feel is the best way possible

The label can do whatever the hell they want with their magic file.... but if the song it's garbage, it won't be played anyway. (minus payola) lol

payolas exactly what im talkin about, its all automated so they bypass YOU the tastemaker AKA the biggest obsticle in getting their new lil wayne drake soldierboy single that their pushing on radio and MTV6 played in the club

Just FYI: The label can do whatever the hell they want with the file. Look at Whitelabel. Same thing, how many of you use the file the way it came? Not many. Most add their own codes, their own in/out points, etc.

All these minor conveniences are just that. Nothing more. They don't make the file more appealing. If the song is great, it will be found by the DJ whether it's tagged, properly named, etc.

So what? That means nothing. It's done nowadays. So, really, now we're talking about some other bullshit. Automation to the minimum. It DOES NOT MATTER.

lol you arent even in the same book let alone the same page as what were talkin about with that statment

Its not about making the file "more appealing" so someone will play it, and in case you havent been paying attn in this senario THERE .....IS.....NO....DJ

In case you haven't been paying attention, there is NO SUCH THING.... yet.

So, you can theorize about everything you want. It's all theory.

lol exactly, which is why the thread is entitled the computer WILL dj better than you and EVERYTHING being discussed is dealing with things that WILL happen and products that DONT EXIST YET.....SOMEONE GET THIS MAN SOME CLIFFNOTES HES BEEN SLEEPIN

It's theory, therefore, might not will.

That is mistake number 1 assuming everything you think might happen actually will.

No but it never hurts to form an educated hypothesis based on facts and current trends

You can't be serious with all the BULLSH*T that''s being played today...

It's about the marketing machine....doesn't matter if it's GAWBAGE or not....

C'mon, stop playin.

I have how many years of radio experience vs you?

mmmh. Say that again. Stop playin...

lol turn on the radio RIGHT NOW and let me know if the "hiphop" tack is hot or garbage

10 yrs ago, peeps argued about cd players, 5 years ago serato, now its midi controllers and sync. its pretty obvious where this is headed. and its not vinyl and tts. although they will always be around and people will always use them, how many gigs will be played with vinyl out, out of 100? maybe 1-2.

there is a wall somewhere with writing on it.

yup, and i think our culture is speeding towards that wallat breakneck speeds all the while arguing that the walls not really there.....SPLAT!!!!!!!1

the only splatting are the diehard sl1200 mofos

the meek shall inherit the earth. that means you better get smart and learn these progs inside and out or its gonna be like taking sling shot to and rpg party. and the 16 yr old kid is gonna have the rpg and guess what that leaves mr. keep it real?

yeesh, everytime I bemoan how shitty the average pay for DJs is these days, I thank god that I'm not trying to do the band thing.

You think $150 djs is deplorable? Most live music venues in my city pay about the same amount to a band - so that $150 has to get split between 4-5 people... it's pathetic - especially considering how much higher the bar for live musicians is often held to by the public than DJs...

That and for the most part, you actually have to learn how to play an instrument, spend money on a place to practice, and have to find compatible bandmates...

if think a culture of "anyone can join the party" stand there and push a button pushers is a culture than ya your right....there is no culture to controllers, no soul

Again, how much radio experience DO YOU HAVE?

I know how radio works CAUSE I'VE BEEN THERE. Not one or two radio stations but 6.

I understand that you sl1200 diehards have never used a CD player or a controller. To reduce those things to pushing few buttons and the software doing the rest shows your ignorance. Heck, you can even autobeatmatch with a DVS and 1200. There better be a soul in controllers. This is where everything is heading. Some dude said the same back in 1977 after Giorgio Moroder released from here to eternity. There is no soul in disco produced with drum machines and synthesizers. It's got to be a real drummer and real instruments. I think we got over that pretty well.

theres where you are wrong, i started DJing on Dual Deck CDJs and found the experience VERY VERY boring, make the BPM readouts equal, press play and stand there for 4 minutes because yuo dont have any wow or flutter or corrections, also just pressing the play button was BORRING vs throwing a record with your hand, throwing a record on vinyl takes more SKILL than pressing play on a CD deck

really how so??

....now your just makin shit up to argue

you think so?? so theres more soul in todays music than in yesterdays analog sounds?? GTFOH

I've never used it. I believe on traktor scratch and even sl4, but again dont use it. I'll check it out.

you cant be this slow. You know what I mean.

if anything this PROVES my point, music had soul and was better when you had to put WORK into it, learn to play an instrument or have expensive equipment to produce it, not ANYONE could do it, now adays the tech is all automated and cheap, ANYONE with an internet conection can DL fruity looks or ableton and make their own track....enter todays soldier boys and lil waynes being the hottest artists in the world

really? dude. I am done here.

well yeah, everything takes skill. EVERYTHING. Even producting music with virtual instruments. That's where the soul comes in. Not whether the instrument is accoustic or virtual. But that's just my opinion. You think that it does not take skills to use a midi controller? Isnt the sl1200 a controller? You are using it like one with SL. And you should be able to rock it even with a Traktor S4 controller.

Let's be honest OK. The reason why you dont want to give up the sl1200 is because it is like driving a Lance Evo and cant imagine yourselves in a Honda Civic. Yeah, the Civic is less sexy. Not as flashy. Not as cool.

FIne ill use yuor logic and say it takes MORE SKILL to use some controllers than others, it takes MORE SKILL (and is more fun) to throw a record with your hand rather than push a button



that and because an evo will outperform a civic

No man, really, I use controllers, sl1200, ipad. I mix with everything. I actually find it harder to do with with a pair of CDJs and prefer the sl1200 myself as many others, but this does not cloud my opinion that other ways are viable. I knew you would pick on my analogy, but I hope you understand where I am coming from. Id hate to explain everything to you piece by piece.

so you find it HARDER to dj with tools that eliminate needing to throw a record, wow, and flutter??

I'm a die hard turntables kinda guy.... but you better bet I can work my way around a CDJ or any other type of equipment you throw at me. I may not like it, but if I need to use, I will learn it.

I still prefer turntables over any other controller though.

+100000000

yes, unexplicably yes. I think that for a CDJ to do what I do with the sl1200, it needs to have a pitch control with 0.001% increments. But who cares, 0.01% is still OK. Like the crowd cares. The dj could rock it with something even less acurate, like 0.1% increments. Still viable. I am totally spoiled by the sl1200.

You're trying to tell me that the QUALITY of MUSIC is what sells it today?

Yeah,

C'mon son.

Who the hell said that? hahahaha

Didn't you say you'd be back in 5 years?

Let's wait.

Why do people assume that about 1200 diehards?

Yeah. Back in five years to see if it happened. What's your point?
I can't be bacl whenever I want AND ALSO in five years?

lol

your lols sound like farts sixxx

.............

Which is a lot better than your mouth smelling like prison ass.

GETEM!!!!!!!!!

sick

abcnews.go.com

It is pretty much already possible: Read manual - pages 20-22 : www.virtualdj.com

For the places where the dj isn't that visible, automated systems will probably take over.
However, for clubs where people pay the door admission to "see" an act, then the act itself will be the main attraction.

My claim is that until driver-less cars take over for traditional cars (including gas, diesel, hybrid electrical etc.), dj's will prevail in clubs over any kind of machine. As humans, we (the DJ's) love the attention of the crowd on a big night. And people in the club love to tell their friend/hookup etc, that they know the DJ. Who the F wanna be friends with a automated machine in the corner? Yeah right...

It's been a long time now that one person is able to arrange a complete track/album alone using a single computer, and no physical instruments. Any time these artists perform, they will still enter the stage, not just set up a player/computer to do the job. Even if not really doing anything on stage (eg Deadmau5), they're still needed on stage to please the audience. My claim: same thing goes for a DJ, even if the person in the booth is a autosyncing sheep, that person is needed to balance the equation.

Back to the issue of "The Computer will DJ better then YOU". I'm sure it will, but thats actually not the bottom line, and as working DJs you should all know this. Getting booked has less to do with your actual musical and technical skills, and more to do with your perceived skills. It boils down to your network, friends who talk highly about you etc.
And who the F wanna network for a machine, LOL

The bottom line how I personally see it is this:
We, the humans, love machines, but there is one thing we love more, and that's other humans.

Watchwww.youtube.com

www.cnn.com

Not too far away.

No one knows the future. People and companies try and push their views and wants. But humans change their minds all the time. It's definitely going to be interesting thou.

I agree with everything you said here but what you described is the situation all the DJs here bitch abot, if the tech is there to play the music and yor there so the bottle poppers and sororistutes have someone to kiss up to, thats not the rise of the DJ, thats the rise of thepromoter\gimmik act. In the senarion you describe someone like Bl3nd would be the perfect dj and would prob be touringthe country,,,,,oh wait

Agree with you Bezzle, only thing is, I believe its been like that for a loong time already.

Contrary to popular beleif, all drones are driven by humans, at least partly...

It's the 'promoter turned DJ' syndrome elevated to the 'promoter turned on the computer'

Considering those Self-Driving drive better than many people in the D/M/V, you'll understand if I find this a welcome change...

99% of people are going to the venue and not to see the dj on the average night.

Interesting yes, sustainable? I doubt it.

seriously, 10 years ago, even when final scratch was first popping its head up, how many people on this board thought they'd be djing with a computer that you could have 10,000+ songs with vinyl or cd control?? I can remember people in 06-7 even as late as 08, telling me how they didnt trust a computer. how crazy would that sound in 2013??

NOT TRUE!!! Who else are they going to pester about getting them in for free lol

when you say sustainable were you referring to the self driving car?

There are people who use technology to advance things and there are people who use it to be lazy and skill-less. Sad, but I believe a majority of DJ's belong to the later and companies are banking on it. I'm just gonna keep on doing what I do until it ends and be happy with it.

^yes^

Mater of fact this could end up a good thing for some. Companies are catering to the common denominators which (as I've been saying) will lead to ANYONE bang able to just press the start button. It really will lead to the promoter/bar owner making minimal decisions or saying shit on the mic, if even needed.

On the other hand what this could lead to is a smaller but open space for Live Production type performances, actually pushing the envelop (not even saying this is me at the moment)

But this can only happen if the software is built to allow it - if all they do is keep focusing on this bullshit automatic plastic shit..... :)

People will have to quit being fooled by a preemade mix tho.

The problem most djs cant seem to grasp is that most people arent fooled by premade mixs they just dont give a shit

same thing (too me)

dont give a shit
cant understand
are fooled
eh - like it

Oh ok so the miscommunication isnt with the concept its your inability to use words correctly

Only people who care are other DJs.

As I said, high levels of salt content around these parts...

no (if we mast argue about this) in that sentence I am using "fooled" in a much broader sense what INCLUDES:
1. not giving a shit (because to me, it is a fool who does not give a shit)
2. unable to understand (is obviously being fooled)
3. are fooled (as in they thought the DJ was DJing)
4. like pre-made mixes (in this sense I would say they are fooling themselves)

so, unless I missed something "fooled"should cover all of it

There are probably lip-syncing singers who say "only other singers care" - in the same regard I beg to differ.

Apples to Oranges.

With the exception of what's-her-face being busted on Leno, how many people have you seen get knocked for lip syncing? No one seemed to care about Psy lip syncing Gangnam Style while performing with Hammer (and it was blatantly obvious).

Come to think of it, I'm not 100% correct. The only time people cared about pre-made mixes was Paris Hilton failing something serious at even doing that right.

Outside of that, I can't think of anyone else. Hell, Pauly D has made a career out of it - and faking the funk to go with it.

"fake performance" - or whatever you want to call it - put it under that umbrella name

people will care about it - if they are told to, just like everything else

Ehh. The way i look at it your the one being fooled cause ya just dont get it

Nope

I dont get what?

:eyes rolling:

See

Akiem... either trolling or dead serious...

spell it out

Indeed...

dummies

I don't understand why this debate from the past is still raging.

It's not theoretical anymore.

Software with sync (and indeed automix) has been available for over a decade. It's used all over the world.

And yet, people still DJ, and people still book DJs.

So what's to debate?

ay
if a club owner or promoter can cut costs and still make a profit without seeing a drop in bar sales and attendance, it will be done.
yep

It has not been compiled into a single well working networked "intelligent" system. Most of the elements are there - but whats been talked about in this thread has not been implemented and is still theoretical.

10 years ago, no one used ssl or tsp, and only a handful of people djed with turntables and a computer. 10 years previous to that there was a small %age of people that could even dj with cd players. 10 years prior there were basically 0 cdjs. 10 years before that, there werent any cd players and cassettes hadn't taken over 8 tracks.

so its not a stretch to say that in 10 years, you just make a playlist and it does the work.

I can see a system where the content is auto dl'ed by the computer(with input from charts and a record pool service) and it just runs every week at a scheduled time.

Just look at where the focus of all the dvs companies is directed at, theyve smartened up and realised the more people they can turn into overnight djs the more $$ they make so dont think for a second these companies arent working tirelessly on perfecting automation

Really?

Last time I looked, there are more DJs in the world than there are venues which use DJs...

To achieve Akiem's end-game would mean the demise of selling equipment to bedroom DJs, wannabe DJs, and working DJs. Each venue would buy one system and that would be it.

I've no doubt there are some tech companies out there with that goal in mind, but if you think that includes the big players in the DJ-gear game, you crazy.

Really? Lets look at serato over the last year or so theyve put out several new controllers, developed dj intro (the you can do it to) system, theyve evolved itch to serato dj, a controller based system that can do everything SL does and more, theyve developed sync

And for scratchlive they.....added album art

Btw you quoted me then argued the other direction my quote was saying the focus is now on bedroom djs. The big name players are focused on making every home with a bed home to an aspiring dj regardless if they ever play a venue

This will never take off and heres why.. there is no such thing as true humanless automation. Even in the strictest sense, a machine that operates by itself will always need a human to maintain it and deal with it when it goes haywire..which brings me to my next oopoint. We cant even get fully automated cash/checkout registers that dont screw up and require a cashier to walk over and reset them. . You think someone's going to make a low cost full dj system that works? Lol. And like I said before whatever job that is replaced by a computer will soon enough add a job for a person to operate and maintain it.

I dont think anyones talking about humanless systems, its as stated earlier youll have a promoter or some jackass in a costume up there for maintence and entertainment purposes

its extremely easy to even put an itunes playlist together. almost everyone at this point(people that would be in a bar) have Itunes and their playlists, how long would it take to set up playlist for the week. Maybeeee and hr? after the initial programming, which wouldnt be too much harder.

the dj system wouldn't have to be low cost. Having no gear and paying djs is going to set the bar back a minimum of 10k a year(thats only 200$ x50 wks if you figure that most are paying at least 1000$ plus drinks $100, which is 55k)

Both actually, for the same reasons Ive already stated. And by saying its not sustainable, by that I mean as a player in the market with a considerable amount of market share. Not saying it wont ever happen, but not sustainable within the next 15 years imo.

The service would be subscription based - if not for the music then for the semi-intelligent learning system that would do okay on its own, but much better plugged into the main system.


It does not necessarily have to evolve from the DJ equipment manufacturer.

It'll come from NetFlix, Verizon, or some beer company!

You see it as a problem, I see retirement money...

pauly d doesn't fake it. He still plays live - he's just not very good at it.

Interesting... Last time I saw a video of him, dude was making the TTM57 do some interesting things....

stupid - I dont see it as a problem, threat, competition or any such thing for myself

(man, this dude just cant jump off the dillz)

...and yet he's the loudest voice about it...

are you talking about me?

i love scratching and turntablism but this comment is everything thats wrong with scratch dj's

Go to a club and do much more than a couple of basic scratch routines or a simple juggle and the crowd think your a w**nker. I've also seen enough brilliant scratch dj's loose floors cause they have no idea about how to build sets, mix smoothly (and i don't mean a four bar blend)

Not true - at least not in all clubs/situations. The fact remains that a computer can keep a mix going but it will seem generic.

then they don't know how to scratch



then they don't know how to party rock

This just in computers do most things better than humans do. Whatever else is left that we do better is just a matter of time. Idiocracy here we come.

"Extra Big Ass Fries" all the way!

www.djtechtools.com

akiem into computer dj'ing, but wont let vinyl die. i like the paradox

no paradox - just observations

Pandora's Box

Honestly this is a good idea... to eliminate wack deejays.

If the program could learn to identify instrumental sections, drops, etc. The computer would HAVE to have some style just naturally from whoever wrote the program... but it would still be a computer just jukeboxing tracks.

blah who cares,,,,there will be a day when there will be no Dj's. That is fact and until then I will keep spinning.

Basically

LOL at coming into a thread to say "who cares"
nm

:) now what I want to know is what ( nm ) stands for on these fourms.

No misquote

damn and I use to type that shit.... FUDGE again who cares....

As long as you're okay with that no one should care.

nm

I expect nothing less for u 6. NM

"Hey, Mr. DJ": RequestNow delivers song requests via text "Hey, Mr. DJ":RequestNow delivers song requests via text

By Scott Kirsner, Globe Columnist

Nudging your way through a sea of bodies on the dance floor is soooooooo 20th century. These days, to ask the DJ to play a song, you're better off using your mobile phone.

At least that's the vision of RequestNow, a new startup from two Boston University undergrads. When you send a text message to a special phone number, RequestNow figures out what song you're probably talking about, and adds it to the DJ's queue. Songs requested by more than one person float to the top of the list. The founders are Matthew Auerbach and Guy Aridor, who met in a computer science course; Auerbach has some DJing experience.

I tried it this afternoon, and it was pretty good at figuring out what songs I was talking about. Texting "Heroes" put the David Bowie song on the play list. The first time I asked for "Crazy," it assumed I meant the Gnarls Barkley song, but a second text for "Crazy by Seal" set it straight.

RequestNow hopes that DJs will pay a monthly fee for access to the app, starting at $9.99 per month. A higher-priced version will let them send out marketing messages to people who requested songs, presumably promoting future gigs.

"It gives them the ability to market themselves and develop a relationship with audiences," says Peter Boyce of Rough Draft, a seed stage investment group that is putting $10,000 into RequestNow. "It's almost like a marketing platform."

Aridor is working on the startup from Brookline this summer; Auerbach is out in Silicon Valley, where he has a summer internship at Facebook.

mobile.boston.com

X-Post needed? serato.com

advertise the best way you can I guess.

There is no program in the world that can replace me at any venue I play.

A dj has to see and feel his crowd and the crowd has to feel the dj.

We as dj's take our crowds on a trip. When we play music, we are going somewhere. We are taking them somewhere.
I never have a pre determined list of music that I will play because a party is a live, moving, growing, breathing thing thats different from night to night, from hour to hour, from minute to minute.

I might see a small crowd of people partying early in a corner of the venue and kinda cater to them to encourage that energy to grow. Other people seeingthem party Iis gonna get more people partying.

A computer peogram just can't do that. Computers can't feel.
Computers will never know when to break to the next song. Computers will never know when to change up the mix.
A computer can pick songs, play songs from start to end and mix in the next song on beat but since a computer cant feel, a computer will NEVER be able to replace me.

i.imgur.com

Couldn't help it :D

Lmfao
You a fool for that one.

I unno man, lolz


equalizermag.com

even though you are joking, they did say the same thing about chess.

when some programmer wants to invest his time into getting the nuances of dj'ing in an application things will change.

the one thing that ive found about technology over my lifetime is that you cant stop it, and every time you think 'it" can't be done, 'it' is.

en.wikipedia.org

www.djtechtools.com

What's next? Hologram Tupac concerts?

Interesting read... I liked the quote about how DJ's rarely look above their computer screens. THAT might be the biggest push for this type of technology right there! Once we got into laptop DJing (from real vinyl), we started digging our own grave.

they should have read this thread before writing that piece

en.wikipedia.org

LIke I said - > "Imagine this scenario: You walk into a club, swiping your phone at the door to check-in and update the promoters on your listening tastes"..

Exact quote


Gee, just 7 days short of exactly 2 years saying that....

wow thats amazing - take a look several posts up, just the day before
serato.com


besides - that had all been said before in several threads years earlier
serato.com

Yes, I would also conclude that I am a visionary...

...of other peoples visions...

LMAO

I never said there weren't people as intelligent as I...

They are far and few between, but exist nevertheless...

:-)

Fixed

as should be


nm

We gotta stop giving these companies free ideas on this board.

First Akeim making the ghettotech 57 now this!!!

yeah, who ever wrote the article probably just read this thread.

eh they must have only skimmed through because this thread goes way more in depth

“Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far the universe is winning.” Rich Cook

Bump

serato.com

?

It all started with sync....

The reason everyone's going back to vinil is its our last chance.

I'm not. I'm saving my vinyl for after the magnetic pole reversal or a global EMP disaster. I have a wind-up turntable in my basement.

Everyone thinks its Facebook or Google that ushers it in... nope...

I can't wait for SeratoCar™ telling me where to go...

Will that have a sync button?

Yeah, but by then it will just be a placebo that lights up

It will be syncd AUTOmatically.

pulselocker + serato pyro = AKIEM's conspiracy theory =ing Fact

Spotify Party Poised to Take Over DJing

Spotify is like that really cool friend you just met. He or she shares all your interests, you can have a conversation for hours, you can take them on a jog, go to the gym, or even have them around while you’re studying.
As a DJ, you’ve probably appreciated Spotify for letting you discover new tracks, mixes, and artists. But now Spotify has come out with a dandy new feature that is sure to make many professional DJs super jolly.
Spotify Party is the newest feature released by Spotify earlier this month. This service promises its users that they [Spotify] will control the vibe while all the user needs to do is “just play” at their event or party.

What’s at stake for the professional DJ? Can a professional DJ be so easily replaceable as seamlessly as it seems in Spotify’s new video ad?
We don’t think so, but that’s just our opinion which we so illustriously painted in our previous article regarding “DeeJaying it Yourself.”
In this article we wrote 5 reasons why you SHOULD NOT rely on streaming services, like Spotify, to be the DJ at a party.

Here were our 5 reasons:
1. Sound Quality Will Not be the Same
2. The Automaton that is Spotify Cannot Read the Crowd (Realtime)
3. There is a LACK of Coordinating Announcements
4. The Gear Quality Will Not be the Same
5. Song Collection (Debatable)
There could be more reasons, or even the reasons we listed could be debatable. But the fact remains – Spotify is poised to become a giant in the industry.
The data is crystal clear, Spotify is growing – fast. The popularity of the streaming service is exploding. The revenue growth it has seen over the past few years is phenomenal. It’s now valued at over $10 billion and does not seem to be slowing.
Even Diplo has hopped on the gravy train with his partnership with Spotify.

news.bpmsupreme.com

1. Sound Quality Will Not be the Same

for now

2. The Automaton that is Spotify Cannot Read the Crowd (Realtime)

yet

3. There is a LACK of Coordinating Announcements

MCs

4. The Gear Quality Will Not be the Same

get some gear

5. Song Collection (Debatable)

debatable

Yep, and to be honest, I don't see this canging anytime soon, at least not within my DJ carieer. A dj spinning from spotify/online streaming lib is one thing, a totally automatic system is a whole other thing IMO.

The technology exists already.

The various game controllers can pretty easily look at and measure dance floors. Combined with whatever type metrics you feed it.

All its going to take is combining technology which already exists at this point.

This is what I was talking about happening.

www.forbes.com




most computer systems are going to do this, just a matter of time

I know, I know. We also have technology to send people to outer space, but its not a mass industry for tourism...

I mean, the main players in the industry has yet been able to settle on standards in music software like daws (project files), dj software (tags). I dont expect them to settle on automated standards anytime soon. Also the whole thing could backfire on the music industry, as one could argue that we no longer need the artists, we only need ai computers to compose/produce the music.... I have never seen one plausible example of a real life working auto system in a good club, and honestly I doubt Ill ever see one.

At the same time we have examples like MIDI.

And I don't see why there can't be competing systems, same as everything else...


As far as music production, same thing. Its becoming easier and easier to create. Its all about the formula and the feedback loop.

I think it will go as far as computer systems creating music live, even remixing live according to human feedback.

time will tell, but there are people working on it

Yep, we can agree on that one Akiem: "time will tell"

:-D

lol

Check the trajectory tho,

Said in 2011
"They are good for storing large amounts of data and allowing it to be organized in meaningful ways rather quickly and accurately. Sharing data across remote areas. And with smartly programed algorithms they are good for combining large amounts of data into a decision. No two chess games are the same, but computers can beat humans easy. They can plot far ahead, and would probably have working set lists mapped out for the evening changing them on the fly if needed."

Five years later and its being implemented in self driving vehicles and probably other systems.

But really Serato + Pulslocker and the only thing needs be done is the 'learning' algorithms and the feedback system.

I know ive gone on about this before but i disagree with this. I think people put waaay to much credit to the skill of reading the crowd. Most people now adays are sheep and are preprogrammed by the radio to like certian things going into the gig. These people are easily led and its easier to just program them to do what you want rather than read and predict. I see all these djs talking about how well they read a crowd then i see them live and their playing the exact same music at the exact same time as every other dj. Oh you read the crowd so well that you knew to play the top 5 songs in the country at the peak time of night congrats bro.

From my experience there are exactly 2 types if crowds now adays. There's the top 40 sheep crowds who just wanna hear what they have been told is hot, you can put the same 10 songs on repeat all night and theyll be fine (no crowd reading required) and theres the "other" crowd who just dont want to hear those 10 songs the other crowd are listening to. As long as you dont play those 10 songs your golden (no crowd reading required).

This call all be programmed just like the radio programs them to like songs.

agree with bezz.

realistically if you have some years under your belt in the dj game or even have good friends in the dj biz, you can get them to program a nite or just curate you itunes for a similar vibe as a dj. DJs are just promoters for a venue these days. Most dont even get paid for promoting,photos, and dj'ing just one fee. I know djs that get paid to dj (4 hrs), promote(original flyerwork every week across social networks) and take photos to post online maybe 1 fee of 200-250$ a week.

We all know the bell curve concept that most people are in the middle with a few people on the far left or right(often used in politics but applies to most tastes involving humans). This is why it works for dj's. MOst people want popular, down the middle music, ala they arent going to want to hear techno or 70s garage rock or late 80s industrial. Even if its a more niche music like house or indie rock, there are still a consistent amount of hits that people hear and want to hear.

Now you have the music streaming services, with playlists, with best of, or classic hits from the 70s/80s/90s that can easily be set to play. Most places could hire a veteran to set things up for lets say 2000$ dollars, which is only 10 200$ gigs over a year. We all know club managers and owners are cheap asses but even combined with a 5k soundsystem(or less) most any bar is set and ready to go. Then they dont need tts or cdjs maybe just a small pa mixer to boost the computer/ipod's level and then let it go. Again, really the only help they need is having a promoter for social media on staff or free lance(which there already are those)

i feel someone will eventually do this on a large scale, much like scratch live has taken over corporate dj gigs with bigger department stores. The other reason it will work is much like when Bose was giving away free soundsystems to place their brand in the venue with BOSE stickers on it. Those didnt work because inevitably a dj played on it and blew the cheap/avg system, but many club owners took them up on the offer.

The service will give away a cheap soundsystem or some other freebie and then slide in with the music service subscription.

Yup, all of this. I had a gig last week where i spent the first 3 hours burried in my computer working on a flyer for an upcomming gig i had, posting invites to another one, and sorting tracks for nye. I just had my main club crate open and woupd randomly grab out a track and mix it in when the previous was running out. I looked up after about 3 hours to see a packed dancefloor i hadent bothered to pay attention to before. I would also be willing to bet i was playing the same tracks at the same time that half the other djs in my city who are bragging about how great their crowd reading abilitys are. This shit isnt rocket science. Just play whats on the radio and add in songs that instruct the crowd to do a dance or act like a hoe/thug.

Far less money being invested in your regular club system than your regular (highend) car. Hell, most dont have a good wifi, let alone a god wan connection...

@ bezz & goodkat, I guess its also about demography then, as where I live (Oslo, Norway) people still prefer people to machines. Both in dj booths, behind the bar counter, shop assistants etc. Even selfservice POS at retail stores arent really that popular over here. (I even used to work on a concept for those about 10 years ago)

Also, let it be known, I was not trying to boast my incredible abilities on reading the crowd. Im fairly commercial, even though I will play 60s garage rock, rockabilly, boogaloo, mod, british invasion, rocksteady, dancehall, 80s synth along (not the actual same gigs) the more common top40 hot garbage in a monthly basis.

consider yourself lucky. and not saying you cant do that here, but you have to be very selective and not let money be a real consideration. most of those gigs are small bar gigs or specialty bars.

i think music is getting better overall in the states in bars and in general, but you have to realize, the u.s is so heavy into the service industry(esp over the last 10 yrs), everyone is opening bars/clubs and restaurants. its a growing industry and many people are into it only for the money (as opposed to a music based venue) and the bottom line is saving money by compromising music to make the most money is generally what happens.

Yep thats a sad development. I DO tend to play smaller places, 100-300 capacity bars/clubs, and they DO pay a little less than the bigger spots, BUT I get quite a lot of gigs, so I'm happy.
For now.. ;-)

Told ya

waits for : 'they cant play clubs because of our taste and skill set'

next statement to be erased from history

IMO
Here were our 5 reasons:
1. Sound Quality Will Not be the Same

Most of the places using something like this already has a crappy sound system, so not a big deal.

2. The Automaton that is Spotify Cannot Read the Crowd (Realtime)

A lot of current DJ's can't do it and honestly a computer can probably do a better job than most.

3. There is a LACK of Coordinating Announcements

Not sure birthday shoutouts attract people to a venue.

4. The Gear Quality Will Not be the Same

Again, places looking to say a few $ have questionable gear anyways.

5. Song Collection (Debatable)

Spotify has way more and is way more diverse.

Akiem, Bezzle and a few others have already covered most of the other factors. Most DJ's do not play in a club environment, it's usually a bar, restaurant that turns into a club...etc. So a lot of the factors above don't apply. For a small place to save $600 a week on DJ pay is probably a huge for them. Generally in an bar like environment, the customer is usually complaining about the DJ anyways.

This is also - just the beginning.


I think Jeff made an interesting point that this could train people to expect blends, 'good' selection, etc. That would be good, but I think the flip side to that is guys using this tech to "DJ" for that reason.

Also, actual DJs having to play like how people are being trained expect.

Same thing with radio, DJs used to break records till radio programing took shit over.


Bet even radio implements this type of technology for all day blends...

yup

club djing prob not, and it does make sense. sports bars and bars it will hurt djs. it will help djs that are good, and hurt those that arent. just because you want to dj doesnt mean you should or have some sort of right too. dj in the bedroom if you cant make it. its djiing it happens with almost everything in life, some people get weeded out, some quit, some keep doing it.

Not necessarily true at all. There are alot of good DJ's at small venues that work for cheap ass owners. They could cut that overhead of the DJ and still keep the music flowing.

Soon the adaptable systems will be coming online. Learning, constantly improving feedback algorithms... and the race will be on (if it aint already)

I still have to disagree guys, if anything, DJ'ing is more healthy than in a long time.
At least to me locally. I think Mark Settle sums ip up pretty nicely in this article.
-> djworx.com

Sigh... opinions from companies that are in a position to collect checks based on ads from multiple companies they do product reviews and posts for.

I realize I'm saying a lot right now, and djworx is one of those blogs I really like and follow, but I can't see someone biting the hand that feeds them. Before I read it, is this joint coming from an unbiased point of view or is it exactly what I expect?

I actually purposely avoided the article/post because based on the title alone it's already taken the approach of "old serato forum heads are salty."

I will take everything back if it proves me wrong, btw.

pretty much what you expect.

but this comment was along the lines of how i feel about the situation:

''The idea that Pyro in its current form is going to "kill DJing" is obviously nonsense (is anyone even making that actual claim?), but a much more advanced evolution of it is likely to kill some DJing further down the road and a forward thinking company would want to be the one to perfect that tech so they can sell it to bars/clubs.''

Gotcha.

^that right there

i'd say it will be like a final scratch solution.

someone will put big money in and mess it up, while other companies start up and copy the idea, or (Pioneer buys them), then after the first or second failure, some company really comes up with a great system(aka Serato and DVS) that works and finally sticks with bar owners/mgmt.


if you went back to 10 yrs ago 05-06, and told 30-40 yr old djs that basically everyone would use dvs systems with computers and/or cdjs that played flash drives and hardly anyone would dj with vinyl but record sales would be higher due to people buying records to listen too at home, most would have thought you were crazy.

who knows what the next 10 will bring.

The real shocker would be to record the set of an average dj in 2016 and let a 30-40 yr old dj listen to it and tell them thats the standard

LOL

I'm just gonna drop this right here...

Watchwww.youtube.com

I quit the game O_O

...another 30% of djs round here taken out.

I dont even think you can teach a computer the human element. I know we can get damn close to it but I dont think science is going to be able to recreate the spontaneity of the human spirit with 0101010101010101010000111001. I dont feel threatened because the places that book DJs have had streaming services for years and Ive even had some managers try and juke box it themselves with those streaming services but the catalouge is so predictable. Here's the kicker I don't think humans want a computer in control of their party I think they enjoy seeing the band or DJ control the vibe in most cases. We may like it on a case by case basis but computer controlled events for humans is not something I see people eagerly getting behind. But if we lie to them about it they might.

that was cool but is anyone going to pay to see a computer do that live? I guess thats why I feel like humans will always be in control. I could be wrong but just my 2 cents

Comouters won't need to do any humanist spiritual type anything because what they CAN do the do a million times better to overcompensate.

And it will still be humans controlling the party through a feedback loop.

There's places you go to and the crowd doesn't even notice whether there's a dj or not. Just busy getting drunk.