read this document
www.hpl.hp.com

Means nothing other than a proof of concept.
Machines and math can not replace human condition.



What do you want it to be? If you think technology is the demise of DJing then you are 26 years too late. www.vintagetechnics.info

If the technology becomes cheap enough, in certain venues(clubs) yes. But in other areas(mobile) - not anytime soon.

I don't think machines and math can "fully" replace human condition but they can replicate it and will be able to replicate it in the future so close to the human condition that no one will be able to tell machine from human.




I don't get it.



I think everyone wants to save money. I think the mobile DJ has been affected and will be affected as much as say, the club DJ. Customers are waaaay cheap out there. All you have to do is browse craigslist. lol

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I personally think that while technology will keep mimicking what a DJ does. The artistic part of DJing will not be replaced. This is for some venues, as other venues will definitely will want to take shortcuts and save money.

Btw, technology is already cheap enough: From cheap iPod mixers to iTunes or software already bundled with a computer.

No, machines cant do everything a human can. But machines can do some things SOO much better then humans that it wont matter.

If enough feedback information is poured into the database and organized correctly people will feel like the machine DJ tailored his set especially for that individual. Combine that with major label control and programing of the content from the other end. Add more exotic shit like bio-feedback loops, control of lighting and frequencies and who knows what else - No human DJ could compete.

I'm sure it's going to get much harder for us, but "true" dj's with a passion for music will always have a place in the industry. Yea maybe a computer can mix already, but it can't scratch that phrase perfectly into a mix. It wont know what bomb to drop that'll blow a crowd up. Most of all, people still want that human interaction, watching some one work a record(or a cd.... i guess) instead of a lifeless computer.

it will know what bomb to drop because it will monitor thousands of nightclubs.

how many clubs can you see the DJs hand on the table, how many people even watch, and if they do could tell if the guy was faking?

how many people have absolutely no reason or function up in they booth, they just know they DJ or something - take one of them to stand up there and pretend like there is a human doing something

Can a machine do the Jesus pose? :P

^It can project an image of VOLTRON haha

I really cant see this happening soon, the price of all the sensors you'd need to monitor people dancing, facial recognition, body movements sensors,under-floor sensors etc....also how will it know if girls are dancing....titty sensors lol, this is one aspect this > www.hpl.hp.com didn't take into consideration....#1 Rule get the Girls dancing.
It would cost at least 20k to implement this type of software,hell...for a normal In-house Computer System that plays video costs between 10-20k+ already.

Yeah, sounds a little futuristic, but who knows if less advanced systems (aka just very advanced algorithms) can out perform a local pub/clubdjs, both in term of costs, and music.. Seen that happen with "dj boxes" already.. at small scale pubs.

But the fembot with a jesus pose might be a bit far into the future, at least they are still making "real" human djs, or making money of making "real" djs, seems to be big business in recession ..
www.time.com

Back in tha' day I was taught one thing to test the crowd.

You drop a track you know will clear the dance floor and with the next track you drop the one that will immediately fill it back up. Then you know you have complete control of the room.

See the link I posted? www.vintagetechnics.info

That right there was touted as the end of the DJ back in 1983. Everyone was bitching because CD's will make DJing easier and the bar manager could get rid of the DJ because he could do it himself.

And 26 years later I'm still seeing the same arguments that Technology is the demise of the DJ. Just like the internet would kill television and television would kill radio and radio would kill the phonograph and the phonograph would kill the player piano and the player piano would kill musicians. Blah blah blah...

You know what will kill the DJ?
The lack of a sense of community.

I don't think anything will kill the DJ as an artform. But, the DJ as an "entertainer" at your local club/pub/bar and maybe even private event will eventually be gone.

How long is eventually? Who really knows?

Are you afraid that a vibrator will kill your chances to score? It's machine, in fact many of them are microprocessor controlled.

That analogy was kinda dumb. Let's stick to music related stuff.

Can a machine beatmatch? Yes. Poorly from what I have seen. Still makes mistakes. But, eventually it will be perfected. Stuff like that.

Granted, sorry.

AMEN!



AMEN! I still do this at the club, to make sure I still got it.

I have looked at the technology and compared it to other fields.

I think what will happen is a good majority of radios, lounges, and smaller clubs will start using the auto/microwave/undercutters and so forth.

Two things will happen.

- Some will implement the new technology just fine, and make it work
- Other places will have a huge backlash (from the crowds) and be forced to give in and get there shit right


Then you have the 3rd side of it, which I think will be the most important part (for us):

I think hiring an "established" DJ will end up being a very expensive "luxury commodity" similar to a hand built car. All these companies pumping out cars (auto DJ equipment) all built by machines (microwaves playing) and selling them for dirt (undercutters).

The fact of the matter is, they might "work" but they suck, they don't stand out, lack originality and most important...girls don't say "ohh a civic, awesome!" (ohh a laptop, lets dance).

To build on that point...if you want a RR (Rolls), Ferrari, etc you'll be paying out the ass for it but getting the best quality available and people will notice that.

My 2 cents

for drunk ppl at a bar or club it probably could do just fine...could it totally rock a party...probably not cause that's where the creativity comes in.

Sports are still played by athletes

Wars are still fought by Service men & Women

Drinks served by bartenders

All the above IMPROVED, not replaced by technology

I like to think that Rockin' a party is done by the same....a Human

Not looking forward to leaving a club and hearing the crowd say " WoW! this club has a better DJ program than the last place we checked out"

uuugh...I'm throwing up in my mouth again.

lol

By human interaction are you referring to when a customer comes into the booth and requests a song and the DJ either is a total ass and calls them an idiot with bad taste in music or the DJ just ignores them and acts like hes mixing in the headphones\tells them hell play the song "in a minute" but never does....i think a machine can duplicate that, hell you can just walk up to any wall in the club and request a track and replicate what it is like to ask most DJs

In todays age its easy, play top 40 that they know and they dance, nuff said

I don't think we will be replaced by machines on a mass scale soon but I see the lack of creativity in dj sets dwindling something chronic in the next ten years or so. We all play tunes we don't like it's the nature of the beast but I see things getting worse over the coming years what with the ease good quality music can be obtained illegally. Granted there has always been bootlegging but the quality hasn't always been there in bootleg records and tapes and to a point CDs.

Add to that this mass recession I see payment dwindling more over the years. Alot of us are able to justify the costs we charge due to the startup costs we've incurred coupled with the music knowledge we have which we have gained over the years. As the people that we enjoy playing music for get old settle down and have families get replaced by younger people who are less inclined to dance and appreciate obscurer songs that we spend time trying to find. The younger generations and soon to be clubbers are probably going to be happy hearing the media/label pushed hits on the timescales that the media is pushing them. Dj's coming up these days probably won't have the levels of influence some of us have and will think clubbing these days is the norm.

Lol.

And in using that analogy, on average how many RRs and ferraris do you see a day VS how many civics

I agree with this really well said, another thing ive been realising recently is that the 80s and early 90 were VERY DJ centric so people who grew up in those ages appreciate a DJ alot more than kids who grew up mid 90s on up. There never new the elabrite DJ\dance oriented scened of the 80s and early 90s and dont expect much except their top 40 just played back to back

*************
If you play straight up Top 40 R&B/HipHop/ Club Bangers /Commercial Stylee...some venues might be tempted to switch in some automation if it saves them $$$...more the commercial spots where the average punter couldn't careless if your pulling some Jazzy Jeff shit to get from one Britney to a Rhianna 35 times an hour!

It will all come down to $$$'s...most places with good F&B managers realise the value of a 'good' DJ and will no doubt keep them as oppossed to getting some computomix software that just fades (albeit in time etc...) from one track to another.

K

that is exactly my point.

I dont see the dj being replaced. digital audio production has been around for years and hasnt replace "the band"

No. But the DJ has replaced "the band" in many instances. lol

sixxx is right. I'm changing my name to DJ John Connor.

it will work in any club where you cant see the DJ hands on the decks

And this is what grates me about many of the arguments on this board. All bemoaning showmanship, hating on button pushers, losing the craft etc, when Djing, remix and sample culture was equally blamed for the death of music all those years ago.

Who'd a though anyone would go down to a club and watch people play records, eh? not much talent in that...

The DJ did replace musicians - clubs, parties, radio, shows, all types of shit. It wasnt the end of the musician, just in certain places. Maybe it was upsetting for some musicians, maybe some lost jobs (I dont know, I wasnt there) But from that was born our DJ culture. But there are still musicians. People still like to see humans perform. People will probably still like to see a DJ perform. But there are plenty of situations where people cant see the DJs hands, they dont even watch the DJ and even if they do they have no idea what he is doing, and would be equally satisfied and often even believe that the computer is actually doing all the work. These situations could very well be turned over to a computer system. Maybe with a guy standing there, maybe not.

If a crowd can already be rocked by a mixtape and a fake DJ (seen it in person several times) then that crowd can surely be rocked by an emulating almost intelligent feedback system central computer.

I dont think its the "death of the DJ", but it will be the death of some DJs who try to compete with the computer where no one gives a fuck about if the human is doing it or not.

Just a note, to whoever thinks Im talking about the 'sky falling' or Im afraid of this shit. Im not, even if it happened next week. It might take some of my cash, but I am a producer and I perform with rap groups, its my name that keeps me good. I would actually like to see said system developed just because I think its interesting. At the same time it is probably bad for the DJ community, just like the DJ was for the musician.

But dont be mad at me if what you do is in danger with this technology - I didnt invent it, Im just thinking about it.

I don't know how YOU DJ but there is much talent in the way many DJ's use their turntables. Notice I didn't even say CDJ's. Besides, one of the many reasons why DJ's replace bands at say events is because they want to hear the original artists, not some hacks whose music selection wouldn't be nearly as big as a DJ's repertoire.

But I see your point nonetheless.

Can't fight technology. Just gotta roll with it and find your (our) place. I think DJ's and the way we spin now will still be around for at least another 5 - 10 years. After that, who knows. Push comes to shove, there's always house partys. lol

You mean your own house parties as nowadays people iPod their way to entertainment.

True...

I think you can fight technology, or direct it to do what we want.

Companies come out with these features to attract non-DJs. 'Do It For You' features that do the work for you, if you cant sync, if you have trouble selecting the next record. These are the type features that will lead to an automatic DJ system. But they dont have to develop those features, its a choice.

Thats why SSL is professional product, it does not do the work for you. Even with features like 'auto gain' is it doing your job, or is it correcting a level error that maybe should not be there?

Should robots replace auto workers? DJing is an Artform, it doesnt have to be efficient and cost effective.

Machines cant do art. Yes they can, they just dont know what they are doing. When you use a drum machine whos keeping time, not a human.

So then art requires human input. Perhaps, and thats exactly what these future systems will do. They will intake human input, direct data from the dance floor, from chart positions, from text requests, from human DJ sets that get archived, and drop them into an algorithm to plot out the entire night like it was beating a human at a chess game.

In the end the huge amount of feedback that can be brought into the system, combined with some randomness, and the major label content programming, it will feel like the tthing is reading your mind when you step in the club.

True

I think the jukebox is going to make a comeback.

Tony Little is coming back?

maybe it will jolt djs into actually digging for new and interesting and "off-the-beaten-path" tunes again instead of just playing the same old same old.

I certainly sometimes feel like a machine when i'm playing the more mainstream gigs.

That's a good idea... unfortunately, a lot of DJ's just play remixes thinking they're the only ones playing such remixes. lol

- God.

That's what I'm talking about (in my autosync / NS7 thread)

DJs should step their game up. Today everbody can beatmatch!! The DJ with the sickest mixes and exclusive blends/remixes will win.

Our culture is build on creativity (inventing beat juggling, scratching, etc.)

So let's use all technical possibilities and keep moving deejaying to the next level!!!

That's what drove me to take up DJing again, there hardly seems to be anything new anymore, all the DJs stick to their genre because that's what's become easiest about DJing, not the beatmatching, or the scratching, you know you gonna go down the shop, or your favourite web portal, and find stuff that doesn't deviate too far from your safe zone.

A lot of DJs need a kick up the ass if you ask me.

Hanging out on this forum and having SL helped me out with that, previously all i played was breaks and E-Hop mixs of top 40, ive made an effort to start learning and playing more hip-hop, rock ect ect instead of being pigeon holes in the genre i find the easiest

Well, I don't know that everybody can beatmatch... otherwise, why would they be having or promoting auto-sync and automix as a feature? Ask Will.I.Am. hahahaha

- Yogi Bear

I said that today everybody can beatmatch (with technical help like waveforms in Serato and BPM). What's so wrong in beeing more creative. I don't talk about auto-mix by a computer, I just think that all djs should step there game up and do more own stuff.

I don't need auto-sync for my shows, I can do all I wanna do with technics and scratchlive.

It doesnt matter if every DJ raised their skill level to Q-Berts and built an obscure library like DJ Shadow - If people want to hear hot garbage all night, then thats what they want to hear, and theres nothing you can do about it.

Unless they are there to see you perform (a human displaying skills) it doesnt matter what skill you have if all -if all it takes is mixing hot tracks together if even that. Ive seen wild off the hook parties with a 'DJ' who couldnt blend three cuts without wrecking.

You can make a 'seen' around obscure music but if that 'seen' becomes popular its no longer obscure. Are you going to try and keep what you do away from the masses, how would that work?

Suppose that you (a DJ who tried to play less known tracks) played at a club that was wired to the central computer. What if the computer listened and archived your set along with the crowd reaction. Then because you did so well the computer (and maybe some human programmer) tracked down your records and charted your techniques. Then the computer incorporated what you did into its style for a similar crowd. How are you going to compete with that?


Take the radio/video programing out of the loop for a second. Imagine a system that reads the dance floor with the devices in that hp article, laser, infrared spectrums, floor sensors, and some tracking and archiving of data on each individual wearing a bracelet etc. A system that gathers and archives as much information about whats happening in the club as possible. Now instead of playing records it just does live production based on live feedback directly from the floor. Maybe it starts out with an 808, finds the perfect bpm, adds in the snare and hi-hat, selects a melody from the archive tweaks it a little, switches to a 70s sample from the archives, throws on an acapella piece from a certain son, etc. It does all this while monitoring the crowd, using algorithms from archived past events and other clubs, etc. etc. In this case it wouldnt even need to play pop records.

what got me thinking about this stuff - a year or so back I was driving across the country and tuned into a station playing record after record that I really liked. Then I realized it was a computer system, no DJ. Then I thought it would be cool to be able to call in a request. Suppose hundreds of people were making requests, so the computer charted the requests and played what was most requested, but also only within the parameters of the show. What if it also extrapolated from those requests other records that people wernt even thinking about, etc etc.

Maybe no one wanted to DJ overnight, but probably a DJ lost his job.

i dont know if anyone here remembers Jetsons - The Movie...but i think it will be like that, all automated but will still need some jack ass to push the button.....im just gonna say fuck it and learn how to play the guitar

Yesirieebob

the young kids are already not into the 90's "hip hop/mixing or scratching" type of dj, they are so used to hitting a button on their ipod or visiting limewire that they don't know what culture is.

The local hipster store is what they think culture is.... pretty sad.

Either way hit me up for those 90's joints if you need some real music... *see my sig*

I GotCHOOO!

-Flipstyles
www.riaa.com
hit me up or click the above link for those hard to get tracks and harddrives for sale!

The new iTunes DJ effectively does that, if you have a iPhone or an iTouch, and are hooked up to a wireless network with iTunes playing, it lets you make requests from the library, more requests, means it's more likely to play.

Also, you only need to look at sites like last fm and pandora for programs that track and select music according to your taste. A lot of people think they're great, but I can't help thinking it's more of the same problem, they don't offer up anything original, only things that are similar to what you're already listening to. Even these systems need human input.



It's pretty sad that you think that your culture is the only real culture. At one point, most people would have thought your 90s scene was bad. I prefer the new DJs, they've moved on and create their own beats with all the fantastic technology available today, and you'd have done the same.

lol SiRocket

i never attacked electronic music at all with my post above or the music that is about today, but the 90's mixing movement that was mainstream was way fun regardless of what you spun, everyone got along for the majority... unlike today its getting more competitive without the battle edge, its how many midi controllers you got and tweet followers.. normally music was about respect, you don't see me bumping alot of funk or soul in my car because its not my thing but alot of the samples of the music i enjoyed then and enjoy today came from those roots.

The kids today think that their favorite electro dj can't weeeeka weeeeka on the turntables, when alot of them maybe have never even touched one in their lives...

I have done the same with technology, i'm not against it, i'm with it, but at the same time i'm keeping certain things retro, like using turntables as my controllers by choice.

By the way if you want to keep the douche out instead of throwing it away after use.... and need some electronic music, i GOTCHOOOOOOOOOOOOO hit me up in my sig.

-Flipstyles
www.riaa.com
hit me up or click the above link for those hard to get tracks and harddrives for sale!

can* not can't*

lol -- you gotta change it to flipsteals.

you can have a system with human input and direct human feedback without a DJ

that is correct

- Ed McMahhan

I could see people walking into a club and requesting a song when they get in on some screen input, the most requests gets the song played at peak and a couple more times....

We are all juke boxes, music playing meat popsicles.
We take money to play songs, or just do it for free.

The difference is that a juke box has no personality. But no matter what format of music, we realistically are just the soundtrack providers to everyone else's life or weekend.
Nothing more, nothing less.

C'mon people we are not exactly saving lives here. LOL

That's if you're not remixing live, etc. Otherwise, yes, you're not exactly savings lives.

I don't know bout you, but I don't just sit there and play music like a jukebox.

-Sixxx
12 naranjas por 1 dólar.

Even if I was behind a screen, no mic, I would way out rock a jukebox everytime.

That's what I'm saying.....

The wonderful thing about being a real DJ is that you have a real response to the crowd. Bitch comes to the booth being mean, I send her packin'. A jukebox would just play her song no matter what. hahaha

-Sixxx
12 naranjas por 1 dólar. Una bolsa gratis con su compra de gasolina Shell.

Club Djs did it to them selves. By underselling and working with dishonest club owners! Never let people F**k you and you're only worth what you sell yourself for. Now I'm not saying you need to make a million dollars DJing but if you're in it for the money don't work for pennies. . . and if you do don't cry about it. I know Djs who don't make a lot and are happy with what they do.

You just need to find what you value most and work on/for that... You'll be fine.

More like Club DJ's did it TO EACH OTHER. Randolph's... perfect example. I was supposed to get by myself $250 per night. Guess for how much 3 guys ended up doing it for? 3 guys! splitting the pay. lol

A little off topic. Sry I was thinking about another topic and forgot this was about the "true DJ" (whatever that is)

and Just what is that Sixxx?

If you don't know what a "true DJ" is... you're probably not one of them. hahaha

I know what they got but I'm not saying anything what if they read this. . . haha I'm friends with all of them. I think they got like one million dollars???... ; )

Me, not a "true DJ" lol That's carzy!~ Not a veteran like you but a kick ass DJ for sure.

You gotta work on your skills to really become a "true" DJ. You may not realize this, but in the skills department you're still fresh.

oh, and skills alone doesn't make up a "true" DJ.

This is america! We're all ballers son. . . I want the best and people do too. . . We're all willing to pay for it but you just don't know people who have the money for it!~ (thus why you think like this. . . )

You serious? Even people with money are cheapskates. I would say... especially them... how do you think they keep their money in their pockets?

This guy called me cause he wanted me to do a wedding. He OWNS a tire company. I've been to his house. I quoted him $1000 cause I knew he has the money to pay it. He said it was too much. He got someone to do his daughter's wedding for $300.

... there is a difference between people who really are rich and those who floss.

Well I couldn't of said it better! The Tire guy is broke. haha I couldn't careless about being rich, I just want to have enough to keep my fam and I happy. It's not how much you make but how you spend your money.

We all know those guys who make more then us but have less with bad credit, a shitty car and live in the Eastside. lol You know I don't Dj a lot but when I do I make good money. Shit I've had people call and say we'll pay anything just bring the same set up you did for our friend. I try to be honest about how I do this, I think that helps a lot. I've had shit go bad too. That's the worse.

Yeah. The tire guy isn't broke... he's just a tight ass. lol (no homo)

But, everywhere you look everyone is trying to get more for less.

you dont keep up with the news\current events much do you....long story short were no longer ballers and noone wants the best anymore and if they do they want it for free......quick economics lesson, rich people get rich by making good deals and NOT blowing their money everyway they can, hood rich fuckers are the people you see living in debit and paycheck to paycheck just to look like their rich by flossing

hoodrich=broke

Damn so I guess I'm hoodrich till the end of this yr. lol

if you got serato
BRAVO
but if you cant cut vinyl records
you wont be able to follow
ME
a true MC
not a new MC
fuck the computer
its you and me

Love those lyrics... that song is 100% dope.


-Sixxx
12 naranjas por 1 dólar.