I saw that too. Surely the can’t call it a day on the sound card interfaces. The SL3 is a great little box and I love that I can use any mixer with it.
I was gonna buy a new MBP but now it looks like I can’t get any newer than 2019.

I’ve got an M1 MBP which luckily I’m using for editing photos mainly but I’m stuck with my 2015 MBP for Serato which sometimes clips audio due to only having a dual core processor and 8gb RAM. it’s been working on big sur so far but this email implies it’s not going to after some update?

If they are simply claiming that this new security extension pop up is firmware being updated and they are giving up then that’s shocking in my opinion. Denon have managed to get their sound card working.

I'm in exactly the same boat. Using my SL3 quite happily with Big Sur and a rotary mixer, though I plan to update to an M1 MacBook Pro soon. What are the alternatives?

Technically it is quite possible to continue using the old Rane SL2 / 3/4 (it would even work with the SL1 / TTM57SL, if they wanted to), only the appropriate drivers for the new operating systems from apple have to be written. And that's not in the hands of Serato, it's InMusic / Rane's responsibility.
And that won't happen, because InMusic wants to sell new hardware of its own (and that is also in the interests of serato, because they earn their license fee on every newly sold hardware).
You don't earn any money with new drivers for hardware that you did not develop or sell yourself ...
The alternative would currently be the DS1 from InMusic / Denon.

The DS1 is not supported by M1 Macs according to inmusicbrands.force.com

"At this time, all Denon DJ hardware and software should be considered not supported for use with these new M1 processors. Please look for additional announcements to be released here for M1 compatibility once testing is completed."

Perhaps it is coming. I do wonder though if we are seeing the death of DVS, which would be a pity.

Sad, but it seems to be going in that direction.

It would be very sad, I’ve had my 1210s for 20 years now and they are in perfect working order so I’ve never felt the need to get media players. Plus I actually enjoy using a proper deck for mixing, I play on CDJs at gigs and it’s pretty dull so definitely don’t want it at home.

As a photographer it amazes me that a company like Serif can offer day one support for both M1 and Big Sur with their photo editing products yet the DJ world is so far behind the curve. Let’s be honest, Pioneer might have given support but it also took an age.

Remember DJing is niche.. PC still dominates the market and sadly it's hard to expect a company to invest too many resources to make their hardware work all the time with an ARM processor.

I rocked my SL3 for years, but even the Denon DS1 is getting old. We aren't talking about stuff that came out 2 years ago, it's old tech so you're gonna have to stick with intel based Macs.

An i7/i9 MacBook Pro will last you 5+ years anyway. Hell my 2012 i7 still does 8 hour video sets like a champ at 9 years old!

I’ll just have to leave my 2015 MBP on its current version of Big Sur and use that, no way would I buy an intel laptop now after the ARM ones are so good.

I don’t mind the fact my sound card is old and needs replacing, just give us something to replace it with, there is literally nothing on the market now.

Didn’t get this email but I’m a similar user. Mid 2012 MBP, DS-1 and Rotary mixer. Consider us the manual transmission of the DJ community.

I wouldn’t feel so bad if they made a rotary kit for the One to look forward to.

I just want a modern sound card that works with modern computers, the thought of having to move to Rekordbox is not a good one.

So do I get this right? Inmusic telling us SL2,3,4, Rane 62, 64 and 68 users to get fucked?

More or less.
Unless you stick with older computers and operating systems or buy their new products.

These days you are no longer a customer, but a consumer.
And of course the consumer should consume as much as possible in order to generate as much profit as possible.
Additional effort and support for old products does not generate any profit, it only generates costs.

Capitalism at it's best. Funny thing is I have a business so I kinda understand. At some point they were going to pull the plug.

I understand it’s old tech and I don’t expect Rane/Serato to keep it going forever. I suppose the market has changed. Why produce a sound card that will last 15 years when a lot of consumers are happy to buy a new controller every four, five years or so?
That’s why I’m happy to stick with my SL3. I don’t want to buy a Serato enabled mixer that might become obsolete in a few years.
Hopefully Rane, Denon or another partner will release a new box soon.

Pls copy/paste this email for all of us who are not subscribed to their newsletter.

Really weird that there are no replacement products. Serato's hardware unlock doesn't make any sense anymore if there are no soundcards.

:( rip. Just updated my 2011 mbp to m1. I guess my only option now is interface 2 with rekordbox.

This is my whole argument, I have zero issue with my SL3 being obsolete, but the fact neither Rane, Denon or Serato themselves have arranged for an up to date product for us to use is shocking.

I will happily buy a new Soundcard, but they simply don’t exist.

This.

What a garbage move by Rane. Their reason for not supporting is dubious at best. I’ve gotten the SL3 driver to install, load and play in Serato DJ Pro on a Monterey based Intel Mac. Firmware my ass.

I got rid of my SL3 a long time ago. Best decision i ever made and just got a S9. Setup is much faster now and i only have to worry about using up 1 USB port. Rane soundcards are obsolete. You can literally buy them for $300 or less on ebay. I didn’t know ppl still use them. This is marketing and how they make their money got to adapt with the times 🤷🏼‍♂️

Not so obsolete for me as I’m actively using it with my xone:96 mixer.

Im a house DJ, I use a Mastersounds Radius 4 with a pair of 1210s, ive owned the 1210s for years and saw no point in replacing them with media players when for a small fee I can just use a sound card and DVS for my digital music, whilst also enjoying the benefits of vinyl.

As I already said, I would happily buy into another Soundcard but there isn't one, and im certainly not replacing my mixer with something from Pioneer etc.

This, its a bit of a blinkered opinion for him to assume we all just want to use mixers with built in sound cards.

Well Pioneer isn’t the only company that create mixers with built in soundcards there’s Denon, Rane, Numark, Reloop…Nevermind to each their own ✌🏼

This is the thing, they are all great mixers in their own right, but I like Rotary Mixers, specifically my Rotary Mixer... I don't expect my sound card to be updated to work with Big Sur/M1 but I do expect at least one of the companies to provide a new product we can buy so we can continue to use our own gear with Serato DJ.

Was this an email from Rane/InMusic or from Serato? How did they choose which persons to notify?

From Serato, Rane haven’t said a word, and refuse to be drawn into questions on their own forum, instead going with the party line ‘add it to the feature requests section’

I think this is actually the one and only option for people who want to use an M1 Mac with DVS and a soundcard. How are Pioneer with maintaining compatibility with macOS updates?

Denon DS1?

Why are you guys not talking about Phase? Just curious...

because phase has nothing to do with it?
it is neither a soundcard nor does it unlock serato?

I wish phase was a soundcard that unlocks serato as well as wireless needle replacement

Not supported for use with M1 Macs. Though perhaps it still works?

Does the SL3 work at all with M1s, even if not officially supported?

I have a solution: Throw that apple junk in the garbage. Everyone's shiiting on Rane when in reality it's apple that's the assholes. Face it- they're not the cool company for music they were in the 90's. They have no interest in you guys as customers... don't forget, Rane and apple have to work together on the compatibility issue...

Yeah everytime apple does an OS update they break something. That wasn't the case 10 years ago.

Regardless of your opinion of Apple, surely Rane/Serato must realise a large portion of their customer base is using Apple products. The Beta version of Big Sur and M1 Mac minis were available to developers for months and months before they even hit the market, what have either company been doing in that time to ensure their products are supported? The impression they have given is they didn't even start working on it and just put a briefing out saying don't buy a new laptop, or upgrade your OS.

As far as im concerned its 100% on the hardware/software company to drive the changes needed to get this working, not Apple/Microsoft or whatever. What are they going to do when all the PC companies start using ARM chips too? because that is where the tech is heading. Are they just going to wave bye bye to DVS users who don't want to use specific mixers?

No, when you try to install the driver you get a security message saying its blocked, with no way of unblocking it (I can't remember the exact message).

That's the thing. They deliberately don't make any drivers because they won't earn any money from it. But it creates a huge problem with arriving to a venue, not knowing what equipment is gonna be there. Either they make new SL boxes or Serato opens up the use of their software to any soundcard, anything else is dumb

Fully agree, id gladly buy a new soundcard, for now im going to have to struggle on with my 2015 MBP with 8GB of RAM, the M1 machine can do photo editing (the thing my old one was really struggling with) until something is hopefully sorted.

Buying a pair of SC-6000s is another option and not having software at all, but honestly, I love using the 1210s and the thought of packing them away for some media player is not a good one.

There are some people who say it works well.
I cannot judge that because I no longer use an interface.

Which drivers?
There are only Windows Asio drivers for the DS1. The device is class compliant and does not require any drivers under MacOS.

Honestly, I really want phase to double up as a soundcard for serato, it would really make sense since you need to carry the phase box anyway.

I don't use Phase so I didn't know it wasn't a soundcard also. I thought since it was a Serato Accessory it had a soundcard. Can't believe this haven't been thought of.

On M1 Macs, macOS won't load x86_64 kernel extensions. The System Preferences Security Pane error message is saying the developer (Rane) needs to update their driver package to be compatible with arm64e.

When trying to manually load the SL3 driver in Terminal, the resulting error message appears:

"Incompatible architecture: Binary is for x86_64, but needed arch arm64e."

On Intel Macs, Big Sur and Monterey load the SL3 driver just fine for me. So much for blaming the OS.

There is nothing inherent to macOS that is ultimately blocking development of an updated driver. Serato/Rane are pointing fingers elsewhere.

If they acknowledge how dear SL boxes are to the community, then do the right thing and release an updated driver. It's not that hard.

Unfortunately, historically, they often don't "do the right thing". Their main #1 mission is to make money, not spend it. However,

$20 x 50 people = $1000

If you are correct that there really is no limitation on SL2/SL3/SL4's due to the hardware and firmware, and given the existing drivers that already exist for these boxes (that can be reverse engineered), why not just group hire a software engineer/programmer for $1K to come up with a M1 compatible driver? I agree that it should not be that hard, and that "50 people" number is probably very conservative.

I think there's some legality involved with that.

It’s not too far fetched to suggest that Serato wouldn’t be where it was today without those SL boxes from the beginning… and all those who used and still use them.

I would gladly pay a small fee to support updated driver costs or pay for UNLOCKING third party sound card support.

Leaving DVS users behind in the dust is insulting at best.

Food for thought Serato.

Im just here as another user in the same situation. There is no solution to turning up to a club not knowing what equipment is there and being able to use my Rane SL3. I have a MacBook Air m1 with Big sur and its definitely not compatible. Poor move guys! I know a few other DJs in the same boat too!

I’ve seen enough touring DJs and club installations to know that this is one of the main rigs for those who don’t just use usb sticks in a pioneer gear. And that doesn’t even take into consideration acts who use it with visuals. What now?

I haven't had a MacOS update break anything once I migrated. But I also wait 6+ months before jumping to the new version. Windows updates hoses soundcards all the time as well, and those updates are WAY sneakier.

Looks like it works

serato.com

Yeah that’s correct, my 2015 intel Mac is using big sur and it’s working, but I’m not updating again from the version I’m running now or I’ll potentially be left with no way to use the SL3 at all. Like you say they should be working on these drivers, even if we have to pay for them as an add on or whatever I’d be happy.

btw. I know that sl3 is old now - I would be more than happy to just pay for the firmware update. Throwing out fully working box is just a total waste of resources. E waste is not cool.

It is Rane. They never update their drivers for support. Why this is a shocking is beyond me. Will never purchase their products for this reason although i would be super surprised if they update the SL boxes for use with M1. I just don’t see it. Reason why I’m die hard Pio gear i don’t care if their mixers are not metal.

If they brought out a Sound Card that worked with Serato (and more than 2 channels would be nice too) id jump on it straight away, i have nothing against Pioneer and use some of their gear.

They did a 2 channel soundcard. It’s the Denon DS1.

He said more than 2 chnls.

Nope, he said more than 2 channels would be nice too.
That sounds pretty optional for me.

Wow!

Just tried posting on the Rane forum about the SL boxes and my account was immediately placed on hold after replying to two threads. Utterly draconian, utterly unfriendly user forum experience.

LOL.

Sounds like Pioneer DJ Forum.

Any news here?

Unfortunately, this is how inMusic Brand handles their forums. Any comment that doesn't paint their company in a positive light usually gets censored, and/or "white washed"(deleted). Critical thinking & constructive criticism is NOT welcome there.

The Rane SL boxes are great devices. I previously owned a SL 1 & SL 3. Planned obsolescence sucks!!

Definitely worth hiring a programmer to build a hack. I mean for pros 1$k is totally worth it. Probably find a teenager who could do it for a lark.

I agree, but as Ragman correctly pointed out, there are probably Legal issues with that. Therefore, it would be even better (and completely absolve anyone of liability) if Rane/InMusic simply open sourced it.

For sure, but nothing like a bootleg movement of people desperate enough to hack your product back to life to embarrass a company into updating their software / firmware / hardware

Love it!!

+1 on that

Such a shame to turn these devices into paperweights. They should really make the firmware open source – the very least they could do.

This (and the many other business/quality/customer practices of the last few decades) is exactly the reason why I reject this company 100%.

The old Rane company is no more, get used to it.

I know a lot of people here are very loyal sheeps...
But the "Rane" brand is just another marketing gimmick of a company that doesn't give a shit about customers and their needs, but is only looking for permanent consumers and their money.
Welcome to the 21st century...

But you are welcome to buy the next and another "Rane", "Denon", "Akai", "Stanton", "Alesis", "Numark" and so on branded product from the same company.

That is the free decision of every free person, everyone can spend his money as he wants.
But then you shouldn't complain later ...

Open a crowdfund and I'll be the first to put a little bit of money into it.

Yeah it’s optional but with my current SL3 I have the ability to run channel 3 on internal mode into my mixer, whilst also using the input of that channel as a recording device… so 2 channel is ok but I’d then lose my 3rd Serato channel and I’ll have to change my recording workflow.

Then you have to wait whether another manufacturer licenses a 2 + x channel sound card for Serato.
However, I would not rely on it. The external cards are far less profitable than mixers with integrated cards or controllers, as they last for several generations of mixers and can therefore be used.
Mixers with integrated cards have a shorter half-life and are usually replaced every 4-5 years so that you are always up to date.
External cards are usually used for 10 + x years.

I will contact rane support regularly to ask about the current status and to show them that there are DJs waiting for it.

Yeah good idea man, I’ve been in touch with them too. I hope Serato are approaching the issue too, it is after all their software we all want to use with these cards.

You have to look at it from a dev standpoint. Apple relies on the software devs from third parties to continue to update driver signing to pair with continued updates.
As a company, you can't justify spending that extra money on manpower for devices that no longer make you money.
This is one of those times where it is better to have a Windows laptop for Deejaying.

Can't disagree with anything you said. I just want them to make a new product we can buy, or someone to make one.

Ive bitten the bullet tonight and im currently backwards installing Catalina onto my intel machine. Serato finally packed up connecting to the SL3 after I downloaded the DDJ-1000 driver to use at a gig at the weekend, SL3 just wouldn't recognise afterwards.

Serato needs to either release new soundcards or open up the software to use any soundcard. What am I supposed to do if I come across a djm750 or 800 which I can't just rip out? Am I supposed to tell my promoter that I can't play because serato sucks?

+💯 Serato does need to get with the times and open the software up to all interfaces. Serato is the only DVS/DJ software on the market which restricts you to branded audio interfaces.

The bit I don’t understand, if Rane aren’t willing to update their drivers, why can’t Serato themselves support the people who paid for their software? Surely they can just create their own 3rd party driver for the legacy soundcards.

If they weren’t doing it because they want to make money out of you buying new products, it would help if there actually were some new products.

I used Rekordbox DJ last week for the first time too, I’m praying I don’t have to go anywhere near that piece of junk as an alternative.

I'm considering just preparing a Traktor library for the times I have to use a djm750. At least they let you use any soundcard you want.

Pioneer does this too. If you want unrestricted, there’s Virtual DJ and Algorithm DJAY.



IMO, It’s not as bad as you’re claiming. There’s a lot of good things going on in Rekordbox.

Pioneer does not do this. With a paid Rekordbox subscription, the software is fully open and available for DVS use with any interface.

I will never forgive pioneer for switching to a subscription based model during the worst lockdowns where DJs didn't earn anything at all. Shows how much they care about their customers.

+1.

Issue is serato can just make it so the software won't support any unofficial drivers

Hex editor and hackin like Traktor😂

they care more than rane clearly. after in music biught them out rane isnt rane anymore rip.

Let me know how your Rane One works with Rekordbox.

The Rane One is a controller, not a DVS interface. Another Rane Product, the Rane Seventy, worked fine with Rekordbox for me, though. ;-)

So I'll probably have to play on a djm 750 mk2 with a perfectly good soundcard soon. Guess I'll have to prepare my Traktor library, I'm not going to rip that thing out to connect my S9, if some dumb patron spills his drink on my S9 I'm economically screwed. Nor am I buying a Denon ds1, I'm not sure that's going to be supported for long either. What a shitshow.

I'm genuinely mad.

I still enjoy this forum but switched to Traktor long ago. The fact I can use it with anything is great and it sounds so nice. Their Z2 came out same time as 62 and is still being sold and supported. I've had a 57 and a 62 become unsupported. No thank you.

the denon ds1 interface is currently available in europe for 114 eur or 98gbp from the major mail order company thomann. Looks like they're completely selling it out. smells like discontinued.

Well damn should I get one? Is the ds1 class compliant?

Yes, it’s class compliant.

I'm ordering one now. Even with tax and shipping, it's $150 cheaper than they are here stateside.

drive.google.com

Yeah I got one too, I guess they won't stop working because they are class compliant right?

They'll stop working when serato decide to not support them, which will be soon

Then you can just use it with any other DVS software. :-p

Yeah I got one too, I guess they won't stop working because they are class compliant right?

Serato really doesn't want me to use club install mixers huh?

What clubs don't have a Serato DVS ready or Upgrade Ready mixer installed? It's 2021.

More than enough that I know of still have a djm700, 750 mk2, 800 or some kind of xone mixer.

Xone I could see, but any club running a 700, 750mk2, or 800 owes you a rental. Update your rider.

The club in my spare bedroom has a brand new Mastersounds Radius 4 installed.

That's a really beautiful piece of kit.

There’s might be one last thing to try. It has to do with your security settings. Do this then try install drivers after.

help.uaudio.com

Keep with an OS that works and when the end comes and you can't use your gear anymore, install Windows for free on your macs with dual boot using Bootcamp and DJ with it till you can...and .... them all. SL2 user here. The more they make what I have obsolete the less I want to buy a 2000 bucks mixer that will remain out of the game just because of a ...... driver, I'm becoming so tired of this that I'm thinking of stopinng digital and keep djing only vinyl which I still do, keep in mind that the new products will be obsolete faster than the old because that's the trick they play now instead of making good products as they did in the past, I'm all about the music, I don't want to worry about drivers, OSs and all that jazz and having to sell my equipment and think about buying a new one every couple of years, analog never goes obsolete.

And yeah, that was an analog rant! :)

Any news to SL drivers so far?

If you are referring to the Rane SL soundcards Rane would be responsible so contact them they are the hardware creators. Serato’s main focus is the software.

Is Serato what we all are djing with here, they need to speak to their partners at least.

I found this, it says the SL4 is in testing for Big Sur and the M1 (scroll down till you see it)

That leds to an obvious question... if the SL4 can be updated why the SL2 and SL3 can't?

Sorry, here's the link:

inmusicbrands.force.com

Careful with it, there are several threads in here and Denon forum (if they didn't erase it yet) complaing that one channel on the DS1 cause distorsion and Denon never cared, maybe that's the reason they are getting rid of it.

That page is unfortunately giving false hope. Multiple people have confirmed when contacting support that the info on the SL4 there is wrong and needs to be removed. Why inMusic still haven’t removed it yet is another question no one seems to be able to answer.

Wonder if the original intention might have been to keep supporting the SL4, however obviously that leads people to think why not the others?

BTW: You can also run multiple versions of macOS on Mac as well, no need to jump to windows…

The bigger issue I see is people upgrading their Macs to M1 for the power and efficiency and not realizing bootcamp won’t ever be an option.

The Rane SL devices are now all listed as Discontinued: serato.com
Very sad 😢!

Damn

Why is the M02015 that requires drivers both on Windows and Mac still on the list?

Probably safe to assume it’s discontinued too…

This is discontinued support from Serato, rather than discontinued manufacture by Rane (which they are anyway). Think the MP2015 might be still supported as it is USB class compliant, whereas the SL boxes and scratch mixers don't. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The worry here for those that have one of those products on the discontinued list and it's working for them today is that the next version of Serato might remove compatibility completely.

I checked the SL2 product page and found this shit:

"This hardware has been discontinued by its manufacturer. It is no longer supported by current versions of DJ Pro."

"MORE INFO:"

"What does supported mean for this hardware?

This hardware is supported only on specific versions of Serato DJ Pro or Lite, used with certain operating systems.

This hardware has been discontinued by the manufacturer, so check the last known configuration carefully before updating your operating system, as drivers and/or firmware updates must be provided by the manufacturer, and are not updated if they are discontinued.

Depending on the age of the operating system or Serato DJ software used, our Support team may only be able to provide limited support should you require assistance.

If your hardware is used outside of it’s recommended configuration, which we strongly advise against, you may observe unforeseen issues."

serato.com

Hopefully another manufacturer steps up and releases a Serato Interface or Serato opens up SeratoDJ DVS to all users with a paid license.

The SDJ DVS expansion pack already is a paid licence. I just wonder why the hell they still limit us to a few mixers

Because if they do, they couldn't charge a percentage to Rane, Pioneer and other companies for every device sold which it's been their bussiness model because they are afraid that if their software doesn't come with the most sold devices Serato DJ stop being the most popular software and people start using rekordbox which Pioneer already gives for free with it's own controllers and mixers.

Maybe. Maybe they're just riding out their current series of licensing agreements, like NI did?

That's what Serato is afraid of, NI ended being sold and bankrupted almost twice in and Traktor it's been an obsolete software that almost anyone wants to use for years, maybe was because they wanted to sell their own dj controllers but...

Were you able to do more than this? Or did I already get as far as I can go?

PioneerDJ does not give the software away for free.The price of the rekordbox license is tied to the price of their controllers and mixers. I know it appears to be the case, and PioneerDJ wants everyone to think this way, but don't fall for the okie doke.

The XP1 is $199 and comes with Rekordbox DJ/DVS.
The XP2 is $100 for access to Serato. If anything, Pioneer is charging way less than Serato is.

Serato should open up all hardware and all features and move to a subscription model.

$30 a month for the whole package📦.

Yes. Way less, but definitely not free. They don't do business like that. This goes for any company. They always make up the free product you think you're getting some type of way at the consumers expense.

- Rane discontinues their SL boxes. We can all get on with our lives.

No, just no. Do you really want to live in a world where you own nothing? I want to buy my software once, them offering expansion packs for future payments should be enough.

Sold out now.

Think that's it. The end of an era.

It’s not far from owning something that works one day and to find out it won’t work the next day.

We are all tenants not owners.

Somehow glad I managed to get one, thanks guys. 100 bucks for a sl box is a steal, I hope I won't run into any distortion issues.

I’m picking up a Denon Prime 2 today, the SX2 is going on eBay, no more Serato for my gigs. I’ll mix it up between Rekordbox USBs and this all in one. I’ve had nothing but hassle with my laptop the last few gigs, all caused by not being able to run big sur… I couldn’t connect to a DDJ-1000 with RB, the driver and RB update that got it working then deactivated my SL3 driver so I had to backwards install Catalina to get it working again. Now I can’t connect to the DDJ full stop… this is a fine example of the utter mess DJ software and hardware compatibility is in general, a massive gang of closed shops all not willing to work with each other for the better of doing the most important thing, playing music to people.

Interesting this thread has 140 comments and no response from any mods/reps… wonder how many other threads of this volume are avoided like this?

Well done. Those are reasons why the pro world has been djing with standalone devices and clubs and pro djs got rid of computers very soon, as I will in the near future if things keep like that.

iPads are already taking over. I ran a simulation on my iPad with serato and Traktor. Both have a long way to go to use touch screens.

Djay pro with iOS is becoming more popular. Djjp is also good which is what I use a lot.

I will never ever buy something labeled Flagship or Industry standard anymore.

Somehow on my old laptops with old OSX and usb A & B cords life is good and stable and works. Just sayin’

This.

Just received my Denon DS1 and it just works by plug and play. No additional drivers required ;-)

Cool. Mine's being delivered tomorrow. What OS are you using?

Latest macOS (Big Sur) and latest Serato DJ Pro version.

You don’t have the m1 Mac then?

No lastest Intel MBP

I know. You being happy gave it away 😂

What would you pay 😜? Just kidding…

The Return of Dj Sparky v2.0, this is pure speculation.

Or on which facts do you base that assumption on?

The Return of Dj Sparky v2.0, this is pure speculation.

Or on which facts do you base that assumption on?

It would be interesting to note that the current Serato DJ Pro ships with a Windows driver for the Rane Sixty-Four that doesn't support MIDI.

The audio part works just fine - because ASIO drivers are generally OK between multiple Windows versions, unlike on macOS where CoreAudio spec changes on a bloody whim - but the driver needs updating because some companies (like OG, pre-inMusic Rane) used to build hardware that defies planned obsolescence.

Hey Serato support, any takers?

Would something like an akai amx suit any one? It works on big sur m1 and iPads/iPhones.

I bought it for my iPad but when the sc5000m received serato support I installed the free serato software and was very pleased that it all worked well. Unfortunately I have to buy the dvs upgrade for timecode via my tts but I’m not really a serato user. I works with dvs for djpp and Traktor too.

The problem is that you have to use it as the mixer in your rig and I prefer what I already have.

I just just realized that the audio routing for serato is set for this device can only be use internal. In other software it can be used just as a 4/4 sound card with no need to use the mixer.

Unfortunately it hard to keep one setup going forever with computers. I’m still having a good run with 2tt’s and a mackie d.2pro. It’s still working after 13 years on every mac without any firmware updates at all. This how all equipment should be made to last.

Loving the Prime 2 so far... fantastic piece of kit. I have a couple of tiny gripes with the GUI (namely not retaining your sorting preferences in playlists so you have to re-sort each time you select the next track, no biggie though) but otherwise its awesome. all in one units have come a long long way since i was using the XDJ-R1. The build quality is great, and loving the pitch faders too, easily the best pitch faders on the market that aren't 1210s.

My issue with that, its 2 channel, my SL3 allows me to route record out into the channel 3 input for recording sets directly... its a small thing but immensely useful and not something im willing to give up so easily.

SDJ software can record also brah.

Not if you're using an analog mixer. The DS1 doesn't have a third input to route an output from the mixer to the interface.

You’re right I don’t understand setting up additional gear why not just buy a mixer that has a soundcard built in for dvs?

There are amazing mixers on the market (Xone:96 for example) which Serato does not unlock its software for. You may not always come across a Serato compatible mixer in the wild either (lately, the amount of 750 MK2's has been unfortunate. The Xone:92 is still common in the Techno community as well).

I hear you I had the SL3 for years but sold it few years ago for the S9. It was just the better investment and cut time for setting up for me it was the best idea.

Well not quite! If you use phase via USB it frees up both inputs, food for thought. Same with cdjs that you use via HID

Only the cd/phono inputs are free, the outputs still need to send audio to the mixer

Recording is still not an option me thinks.

Is the Virtual Audio Cable option available when Using the DS1 or SL2 ?

You can route the mixer output to one of the CD inputs to record, you don't need the ds1 outputs for that

There is a work around for that but it's not very pretty. I've been able to use my AMX as a SL Box in the past when paired with my old Vestax 05.

Yep, old workaround since the old TTM57SL.

Ch1:
Linefader up, crossfader complete on the left side, master output into ch1 from the second mixer.

Ch2: Linefader down, cue/pfl full on ch2, headphone output into ch2 from the second mixer.

It will work, even if the sound is not necessarily perfect.

Countless.

Several reasons that I can think of off top of head, mainly that not everyone wants to use, such less purchase mixers that have inferior sound quality. Another reason is many don't want to invest tons of dough in a mixer only to be suddenly told at any given time "Sorry, we don't support that unit anymore."

If your computer is for djing as mine you just keep with what is working and there's no need to update anything because it currently does what it's intended for, the answer to this programmed obsolescence is not to buy something new, is the opposite: to keep with what you already have and works, if most people did that companies would learn the lesson but the majority is about "the new dj device of the week", to me is all about the music, lucky me.

If you need that same computer for something that needs the latest OS and such just make a dual boot and you are done.

+1

Its progression, progression can be seriously ugly and downright dirty. I dont blame anyone for it though. Apple's progression does not include disc jockeys. Thats the main issue. We have to work around Apple's eco system. Inmode, Serato, Pioneer, all victims to that. It's the same in every industry. I deal with it with CNC machines, manufacturing equipment, all that. I think us becoming aware somewhere around the year 2000 going fully online and generations growing up using computers expect some of this stuff to last forever, but look at how much stuff has been sunsetted since the 80's.

/endrant

The good thing with these macbook pro's is longevity. You have a 2012+ you can make it work well beyond its lifecycle

Oh you mean like how they did with the Rane SL cards🤔

Apple does this to all devs across all industries. It's to the point where we are telling people who are having issues with OSX compatibility to either roll back or purchase a Windows laptop to use for working within our software environment at work. We, in the dev community, are growing tired of apple breaking shit with every new update.

Windows 10 was a major success I think. I have to use both ecosystem for various projects. Apple is amazing when it works. When it doesn't there is no in-between, it's devistating.

I will tell you this, even though we don't like the changes, it's totally necessary. I don't like rootless protection, but I know it's a necessity and necessary evil.

When quantum computing lands, were all ganna be thankful to these large corporations because hacking will be a million times easier.

Im using a Mastersounds Radius 4, if you can find me a Serato integrated mixer thats anywhere near that level (the Rane Rotary isn't) then ill consider it, then still refuse as I love the Radius that much.

Bingo. That's exactly what I was saying earlier with "not everyone wants to use, much less purchase mixers that have inferior sound quality"

High quality analog mixers such as Mastersounds, Condesa, Bozak, Urei, Resør, E&S, Varia, Alpha Recording Systems, et al (even the Rane MP2016/XP2016) are in an entirely different league when it comes to sound and build quality, and those represents a whole other segment of the market that apparently InMusic isn't bothering to consider the only current solution to unlock Serato DJ Pro for use with analog mixers is the Denon DS1 which only unlocks two decks, not three or four like the Rane SL3 and SL4 did.

Digital mixers are a ticking time bomb just waiting to be suddenly unsupported and thrown in the ever-growing heap of worthless yet expensive paperweights. Analog mixers on the other hand are forever, which is precisely why high quality analog units manufactured from over three decades ago can be regularly found in all kinds of venues and home setups.

One has to wonder if there indeed is a profitable market for SL like boxes for Serato what is stopping the other brands from releasing such products.

Pioneer, Reloop, Roland, Gemini etc

I’m curious, If Serato updates to allow use of non-official sound cards what options are available out there for such cards that are designed as such ie switchable 1-4 pair of phono/line in and line out

Fully agree, my British designed and assembled (by an absolute mixer legend in Andy Rigby-Jones) analogue mixer will be my home setup choice for the rest of my life now... being able to play my digital music through a soundcard whilst also utilising my perfect condition 20yr old 1210 m3d's over buying media players is important to me.

I dont scratch, im more of a house/4-4 beat mixer but doing it on control vinyl at home is so much more enjoyable than pressing the play button on a media player. As someone who plays on CDJs and controllers at most of my gigs its nice to be able to go back to how i want to DJ when playing at home, few glasses of wine/beer/whiskey and spinning some records is a Friday night institution round our house now:) my partner has even set up a seating area in the hallway to sit and listen to the tunes.

Hopefully someone has some irons in the fire to give us a new soundcard so we can carry on as we choose.

The problem comes down to pricing. To manufacture a unit with proper grounding, shielding, quality phono preamps and quality DAC's (the DAC's in the DS1 are shite), you're looking at a sale price in the $3-400 range at minimum. Now add in the $100 Serato Tax.

You're left marketing a product to a niche market (this price point puts you above the average consumer and producer market).

I think it's totally possible to do a high end soundcard short run per year. I'm not sure what short run is considered to inmusic, but if there is at least 10k people willing to pay for the high end soundcard it's possible it will get done.

Serato should make their own brand of boxes. Why they didn’t do this already by now is beyond reasoning.

The only solution for someone who absolutely needs a break out box is to use software that supports them.

Or better yet, just offer us an option to pay a premium "unlock fee" that allows Serato DJ Pro users to simply use the sound cards that are already built into media players such as Denon SC5000 and SC6000, Pioneer CDJ-2000NX2 and CDJ-3000. That way there's no external interface or extra cabling needed. I would totally be down for that. Just Plug n' Play.

PS: Yes, I realize this doesn't solve the problem of using vinyl turntables with SDJP as DVS.

Just let us buy the unlock for any soundcard, problem solved

:thumbsup:

This is the easiest and best solution.

With the setup costs, a short run of 10k would end up at about a $7-800 per unit sales price before the Serato Tax. You have to look at the current shipping climate and shortages. Pricing on quality components has skyrocketed.

I cheaper solution would be as aforementioned or for someone to write a proper digital RIAA script that does not impede on the current patent held by A&H.

Care to educate on what this is

Instead of using the current chips available for RIAA specific phono amplification, you could use a lower cost configurable Audio to Digital Converter programmed to amplify the signal. This is done on some mixers already, but you would need to avoid copying the code they are running in order to avoid patent infringement.


Another even lower cost option would be to use an off-the-shelf Single Board option without a phono preamp stage, but you would cut out users that still use Technics.


I stopped modding Technics altogether at the moment due to the increased cost and shipping delays for PCB's (I ran out last year around May). To put it in perspective, an onboard phono preamp mod was running me $65 in cost pre-pandemic.

Hey Hell,

I was in no way offering a cheaper solution. I stated high end, not budget.

So,quick question. Concluded,what is a best alternative for discontinued Rane SL2 at the moment to run DVS? Denon DS1?
I don't see any hope for upgrading Rane SL2 software,and I would like to use my turntables at home a bit more the in the past few months.
Thanks for any tips!

So, the DS1 is officially announced as discontinued too.

Best is a relative term but to sum it up:

* Do you use an older Mac? Don't upgrade to Big Sur and just stay on Catalina (10.15 or previous).

* Dual boot your Mac. You can run whatever newest Mac OS version as your daily driver but boot into Catalina] (support.apple.com) or previous when you want to use Serato + the SL2 / 3 /4. Harder to do but still viable for the occasional play.

* You could also run Windows on your Mac but I consider that to be a last resort option since most people buy a Mac to run Mac OS.

* Have a new M1-powered Mac or planning on getting one? Your options are essentially limited to newer mixers and controllers or the DS1.

Yeah,I've got new M1 Macbook Pro with Big Surr.
Buying used older Macbook to run Catalina on it only to connect it to SL2 is a bit pointless for me.
How limited is Denon DS1 at the moment?Anybody runs it wit M1 Macbook with Big Surr or is it same case like with SL2?

"newer mixers and controllers"...like what? SL3,SL4??
more examples?

The current DVS Ready mixers still in production are
Rane Seventy Two MK2
Pioneer DJM-S11
Pioneer DJM V10
Numark Scratch

I don't first-hand experience with it but numerous people have confirmed it works even though inMusic/Rane haven't "certified" it to work on M1 yet.

It's a usb audio class compliant device so theoretically it should survive a few Mac OS and hopefully Serato DJ updates. The DS1 is probably the only option if you don't want to spend a lot of $$$ on new hardware and it should be a drop in replacement to the SL2.

My old TTM57SL is (was) class compliant as well but Serato dropped support for it since it's only USB1. Shame because it worked just fine as an audio device.


Unfortunately the SL3 and SL4 are in the same boat as the SL2.

It would be nice if Serato labeled which hardware works on the M1 but their hardware page is a good start. (serato.com)

Big Sur and/or M1:
* Pioneer DJ (www.pioneerdj.com)
* Rane (inmusicbrands.force.com)
* Denon (inmusicbrands.force.com)
* Reloop (www.reloop.com)

Reloop Elite. I forgot to include this one

Great info @SpinThis, thanks for summarising for everyone.

Is the S7 not DVS ready?

The S7 comes with/unlocks DVS out of the box. (serato.com)

As an aside, IIRC Serato used to say "DVS ready" on hardware that supported DVS but didn't come unlocked out of the box with it enabled... They now say it's a "Paid upgrade".

As someone who also does marketing for a living, apparently I'm not the the only one who did a double take on what "DVS Ready" actually meant...

Has anyone got any opinions on the 2019 MBP 16”? I’ve been looking at upgrading my 2012 for a long time and was waiting for the new M1s but I don’t want to give up my SL3. And waiting for a new DVS sound card could take forever.
Seems a shame not to buy the latest Mac but a 2019 model should have plenty of life left in it.

I have nothing new to add to this long thread, but I wanted to find an echo chamber to voice my frustration with the Serato, InMusic and the DJ gear industry as whole for not providing us a replacement Serato DJ DVS interface.

I understand why it's bad for business to support the Rane SL boxes forever, especially since Rane has changed ownership, but I'd be more than happy to buy a new (supported) interface AND the Serato Club Kit license at this point.

Nothing against Phase, but if there's a market for a device like that, there should definitely be a DVS interface on the market.

Maybe something new is in the pipeline and that's a reason for discontinuing the old stuff besides the zero benefits and to ensure the new is gonna be sold or they are even monitoring complaints to see if there's enough demand to decide or maybe they'll keep well known DJs signing the same mixer again and again forever... who knows...everything is possible...

Maybe something new is in the pipeline and that's a reason for discontinuing the old stuff besides the zero benefits and to ensure the new is gonna be sold or they are even monitoring complaints to see if there's enough demand to decide or maybe they'll keep well known DJs signing the same mixer again and again forever... who knows...everything is possible...

Let's hope!

There's only 2 Serato DVS mixers on the market that I would even consider owning but one is flawed and the other is too expensive for me. Those being the A&H Xone:43C and the Pioneer V10 respectively. I'll hold out with old versions of MacOS and Serato DJ for as long as I can, but I've invested a lot of time and money (licenses and accessory controllers) into the Serato eco-system, so changing would be a tough pill.

The Xone:43C is not good. It wears the A&H name and Xone badge, but does not live up to the quality expectations you'd expect.

So, the flaws I was talking about are the poorly implemented and huge FX knobs and crappy x-fader and curve settings. Other than that, I thought it was supposed to be a good sounding 4 channel mixer. I'm still kinda considering picking one up despite those flaws, is there anything else I should be aware of? I thought it was still considered a great sounding mixer.

I have a Xone 23 (which is what I use my SL2 with), and while not perfect, I mostly enjoy mixing on it.

You won't be as happy with the 43 as you are with your 23.

It's still a solid machine but the M1's obviously run circles around them. (browser.geekbench.com)

As with any sort of tech, it's like a moving train, at some point you jump on or get left behind, the key is to jump at the right time. Currently it's a weird transition time where the trains are moving in opposite directions.

Rumor has it that Apple's Oct 18 event is when new models are coming so if new M1 versions or even Intel models arrive, the now latest 2019's will also drop in price a bit too which would be good if that's what you're looking to do.

If for some reason Apple comes out with new Intel hardware too, it's likely Apple will lock it down to run only Big Sur or Monterey so a 2019 model could end up being a good option if you want want to run an SL box on Catalina for example. You can always dual boot too if you want to run the latest software. Apple tends to hold its resale value better too so there's that.

Rane is bullshitting too much right now with their driver updates too I own a Rane 64 and I cant even use it with serato dj pro the new windows updates bricked my mixer and Ranev wont release a fn update for my Rane Driver now I have a thousand dollar mixer sitting there useless with my stupid rane 12 tables wtf Rane?

That's the worst thing ever man and the reason I use external soundcards.

This…… I had one before picking up the Mastersounds, did my head in. They should have created a budget brand name to release mixers like that, having AH on it is embarrassing.

This is why i will always buy Pioneer. Rane has always had driver issues with multiple products there is no excuse for it.

According to the docs (serato.com), you want Windows 10 build 1909, anything after is not going to work. Do a clean install and don't update past. (answers.microsoft.com)

Rane also axed support for the TTM57SLmkii which came out the same year. And yet the MP2015 is still supported. The TTM57SLmkii was supposed to be usb audio class compliant as well but it's no longer supported in Serato.


TBH I haven't bought a Pioneer mixer since my DJM-500 eons ago, but but I I recently ended up getting an S11 over the 72/70 partially over this. Definitely not the same Rane from years ago.

Is 5-6 years is the shelf life for a product these days? Good grief. At least Pioneer is still supporting the S9 which came put in 2015 as well, will be interesting to see how long they keep it going.

Rane have just put an email out saying don’t upgrade to Monterey just yet….. lol.

All of InMusic did. It's to keep their support from being flooded with the slew of issues that crop up Everytime Apple does an update.


For the Rane 64, it's deprecated hardware at this point. It's a great mixer, though imho. So, I feel for you.

Remember when FireWire was a thing then stopped being a thing? We are at that point with non-class compliant audio interfaces now. Standardization will rule the industry.

My old RME FF400 firewire audio interface (introduced 2006 and discontinued many years ago) received M1 drivers almost one year ago. Just sayin.

It's just bullshit reasons and greed everytime, throwing away perfectly good hardware is terrible for the environment and not sustainable at all. A shelf life of 6 years for a mixer is not acceptable

RME is the best company ever when it comes about drivers and such, probably the only ones that support everything forever. They make very good drivers.

It was more the irony that my Mac is now stuck on Catalina because of them..

*8 years*



The current release cycle for mixers tends to run around every 5 years. Pioneer, who is the current club standard, has been running with the 5-6 year cycle for the past couple decades now.

Just curious, what did you guys hate so much about it specifically?

The reviews and opinions I've read were mostly positive, other than the things I've mentioned. I had one for a couple days before returning it, but that was mostly because it was a lot more expensive than a Xone 23/SL2 combo when you include the necessary licenses.

The components that were used do not be up over time. The sound quality pre summing does not measure up to other products at the same price point. There's a lot of low-mid mud at the summing stage.

The way the FX send works is strange and doesn't fit in well to muscle memory whether you're used to the club standard or the Xone standard.

That's unfortunate... I wonder if the Reloop RMX-90 DVS is worth a look then. I want a 4 channel mixer, but sound quality is of the utmost. And while I heard the Reloop sounds good, I highly doubt it's on par with A&H or a NXS2.

I didnt like the noise when activating the filter, the ultra steep fader curve, the flakey sound card connection (didnt always show up on my laptop) and that weird 'flex FX' thing that didnt actually serve a purpose, would have been better served as a per channel filter rather than some wet/dry FX knob.

Oh and you couldn't have post fader FX in Serato either, even though the sound card was built in.

Yeah, those are all very valid criticisms. As far as the flex FX knobs, I always wondered if those could be midi mapped to control the serato FX filter or something, probably not, as I assume someone would have suggested that in all the reviews I've read on the mixer.

So...in the fallout from my SL2 no longer being supported, I purchased a used Reloop RMX-90 on eBay yesterday. I'm not expecting it to sound as good as my Xone:23 (especially the filters) but this is for home use only so I'm sure it will be fine. I just hope this Reloop mixer doesn't become unsupported soon as well, because it's a few years old now. As for my SL2, I'll just keep a installer of SDJ 2.5.5 saved and keep my Mac on Catilina until HOPEFULLY some new interface is release. I hope one of these YouTube review channels (DJ City, Crossfader, Digital DJ Tips etc.) makes a video about the SL Boxes being unsupported and how it's bullshit, as they have a lot of pull in the industry these days.

Unfortunately most of those channels are more interested in revenue generated by keeping suppliers onside so I highly doubt they will, I agree with your sentiment though.

I’ve now split my work between my 2 macs, I’ve wiped clean the 2015 model and only installed the 3 pieces of DJ software and traxsource downloader, and kept it on Catalina. The M1 machine is going to be a pure photo and video editing machine now.

I used to have an sl3. I LOVED it, it was a rock-solid piece. After the club kit was released, I parted with my SL3.
It's silly because I almost bought a box back in July as I was bored with the lack of support for a handful of recent mixers (A&H 96 and PX5 PDJ 750mk2...)

Yeah thats why a little bit of me is hoping Rane get their act together and sort the drivers out... will be tough parting with the SL3 as its so solid. Im happy with Catalina on my freshly wiped Mac atm though, removed all other bloatware etc and just got it purely for music management.

If it ain't broke y'all

I strongly suggest just rocking a refurbished laptop. That era of Rane hardware is still solid.

My 2015 MBP is firmly staying on Catalina now.

I got one of those 2 years ago, tired of dealing with Windows all my life, of course it was used and is on Mojave, everything I got for djing works well on it so I'm learning to pass on trying new software or anything that makes me update the OS and trying to see it as I see my mixer or my decks, just another part of my dj setup, I don't update my Technics and they have been there forever...so can the MBP ...or you can run dual boot with the latest OS as I said before, I did a research and it's quite easy. The trick is to don't let yourself think that you need to try everything new that comes every week because it's obviously done to make you spend money again and again. You just need to think that if you can still do what you need with what you have you don't have any need, you are just bored!

Yeah can’t disagree with anything you say, my only issue is I have a £2000 M1 MacBook with 1TB hard drive that would run Serato like a dream and instead I’m having to use my 8gb RAM intel machine on reduced performance settings. Luckily I don’t stare at waveforms etc that often so it’s not a big deal.

Funny thing I saw on YouTube, someone was doing a live mix on Serato and people in the comments were trolling the guy for having his fps turned down and the waveforms stuttering. Like you watch someone’s DJ mix and that’s your main takeaway from the video lol.

Return it to the store and get a pair of used £500 Macbook pro and save 1000 :)

Another rule I follow is to don't buy anything new that's not been tried and tested for some years and it's clean at it's users forum :)

Seriously, companies have to change their politics otherwise this is gonna end badly.

This shows the kind of users companies are targeting, bedroom dj kids complaining at others just to feel they do better because they never get a real gig. It's too easy to DJ these days and it's a fashionable job just as "Youtuber", "instagramer" or "influencer" :)

I may be wrong, but I think going Linux would solve most of these issues. (Ubuntu is an easy gateway nowadays)

nooo one is gonna make serato or hardware drivers for linux, now or ever.

This, unless Elon tweets about it lol

I do a lot of photography so the M1 is perfect for heavy photo editing, it’s definitely staying put, tasks that used to hang are a complete breeze on that machine, plus it runs 4K monitors with no issue.

That's right when it comes about image you need even more power than with audio.

I'm Using a MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2017)
on Big Sur : 11.6 (20G165)

Hardware : Rane SL3
Software : Serato Dj Pro 2.5.7

and it works fine every gigs... Zero Problem, Zero latency, Zero usb drop...

but on serato realease note, Catalina is the last supported... wtf ?

Just serato stuped))

Yeah so my advice is, don’t ever load a Rekordbox driver of any description… and don’t ever have to need to re-install the SL3 driver, your hardware will no longer work and you will need to backwards install your OS.

Get out of my thread you pathetic troll.

Yeah, I've been noticing that "not supported" not necessarily means that it won't work, it means that if it doesn't you just can't complain or ask for any fixing.

Yeah so my issue was downloading the DDJ-1000 driver to use at a gig with RB, when I got home the pioneer driver had deactivated my SL3 driver and I then couldn’t install it again to get the interface working. This meant I had to wipe my laptop, backwards install Catalina and reload my music.

I wasn’t particularly bothered about any of that as it’s not difficult and gave me chance to clean install Mac OS with none of the junk I’d accumulated over the years, but it also means my laptop is running on an OS behind what is available with no view to being able to update.

Funny Serato have sent another warning email listing all the Rane products that don’t work.. then making some excuse about how it’s Apples OS changes that are preventing the creation of drivers. That doesn’t wash with me, other controllers of similar age are able to work.

you go yourself

Well, that's kind of a courtesy on their part. They don't really control the flow/update of hardware makers. And we all know how the gatekeeping MacOS does can really mess up your day if things don't install correctly.

It's a shame they don't just go all class compliant hardware..

I would say this is an InMusic call. They don't see 'legacy' Rane hardware making money and adding enough to the bottom line at the end of the day. Most of the mixers out there have built in sound cards. This leaves out a sector of the market where DJs want to use gear that isn't supported or opened up for Serato.

Could it be InMusic bought out Rane to have access to their patents and only build mixers with built in sound cards? The only thing that is constant is change.

Maybe. Usually, products are discontinued & drivers are not updated when new products are on the way...

I'm sure the pandemic has pushed back a lot of products that were supposed to be released in 2020/early-mid 2021. IMHO once all the port congestion is fixed, we will see a flood of new products.

FWIW the TTM57SLMK2 (serato.com) was class compliant but that didn’t stop Rane (and Serato) from pulling the plug.

i guess that mixer will still work with m1 macs then? can someone confirm?

Remember when Rane dropped a firmware update allowing all Rane SL boxes to be ASIO compatible?
Y'all should go to Raneforum.com and create a thread request a firmware update to make SL boxes Core Audio Compliant. ;-)

It tells me a lot that support was dropped for the Rane 62, and yet the newest release version of Serato DJ still supports the Pioneer DJM-850. I was told over two years ago that parts for the 62 were running low and they'd soon be unfixable. For supposedly "professional" high-end products this is all pretty ridiculous, and (as much as I loved Rane when it was really Rane) this is all making their products look like very risky purchases. Suffice it to say, I'm buying DJM-S11's to replace installed Rane 62's.

I’d say that’s a good plan, I don’t even scratch and can see just how good the S series mixers are from Pioneer.

For all the bad things I've had to say about past Pioneer mixers (going back to the turn of the century when their mixers were super buggy and sounded horrible), I'm super-impressed with this DJM-S11. Have not yet plugged it into a real sound system yet, but the audio issues with their old mixers were clearly audible to me even just in headphones.

That's their plan, I'd say...to make you buy one of their new toys and abandon the old that doesn't give any more money to them.

This shit is going so fast that there's the possibility that more and more unsatisfied clients kept their current setups forefever or throw so many tomatoes at the brands that trend inverts a bit a least and will see sturdy and durable products again ...."It's just a dream"

If Rane's plan (by dropping support for all their hardware more than a few years ago) was to induce me to buy their competitor's product, Mission Accomplished.

Facts. Not looking for a mixer that’s bullet proof but with baggage (driver issues). I’ll stick with my plastic Pioneer

Lets just hope there is a sound card in the wings from someone, with more than 2 channels preferably.

They can't control your final decision yet but give em some time:)

Seriously, you ended buying Pio but others keep trusting Rane as a brand for what they did in the past and get their new products so is stiil a good move because it's the same if a guy buys Pioneer or keeps using his old Rane products, no income for the company.

😂

There you are! I was hoping you’re still active here…

Ha! I was wondering whether it's you ;) What happened to your nickname?

I guess it had been so long since I even logged in that they just forgot about me.

Would a DJM-S3 with built in Serato soundcard be a nice and budget friendly solution to replace SL2 boks?
Or do we need to look up in a bit more high end mixers?
What I can understand,no M1 Macbook/Big Surr/Monterrey supoort issues if I end up buying something like this?

Get a Denon ds1

As far as I went through few topics here,there is no M1 Big Surr/Monterrey support for Denon DS1 either.
DS1 was the thing I was thinking in the first place.

There is no need, because it works out of the box.
Class compliant....

I'll go straight to the shop and change my SL2 for DS1 if it's really truth :)
Anybody else can confirm it? I just dont want to throw my money away for another box that doesn't work...
I'm curious why nobody here told us before,that DS1 is actually working?

If i were you I'd bring it back and go for another software provider altogether,

Pioneer have a sound card out or else get one of the Native Instruments for Tractor,

if serato want to say fuck you to its fanbase why give them your business

Both the Pioneer RB1 and Traktor Audio 10/6 are also discontinued products.

Good luck finding a DS1 now.

Actually this is not a problem.
The biggest worries I've got,if it really works. But as You guys say here,class compliant stuff should work I moght take my chances...:)

Yeh the DS1 will work for a long time as it's a usb audio class compliant device on the computer but the big question is for how long will Serato support it?

Worst case, if you get a year (maybe 2) out of it while you determine your next move, would that be worth it?

How long will Denon support it. It's their device not Serato..

you do realise it was Serato that locked the Rane gear out,

the question is how long will serato support it,

the answer is not 1 version past when the licensing agreement is up from what seems to be going on with he rane devices

Oh my bad. The device companies hold no responsibilities for their devices. They all have our best interest in mind. It's all on that evil company called Serato.

Who, by the way, let's you speak your mind on their site.

No longer tracking this discussion before I say something evil.

The founders of Serato always wanted free speech on their forums which has wained a bit since their departure,

and in regards to the device companies they might have discontinued the devices but there was no technical changes from 2.5.7 from 2.5.8 they would have meant the SL boxes were no longer compatible, this move was clearly motivated by either corporate greed or pettiness to lock out these users,

In my opinion serato made a dickhead move here and they would rather see these users buy new gear and make money off through licensing then the potential of them buying FX packs and other add ons and vinyl sales,

anyone they was locked out by serato in 2.5.8 should never give them any of their business ever again

It is not evil, serato wants to be the less tech-knowledge demanding software. Whereas Traktor lets the user tweak a lot more.

Serato was always about rock solid stability too.

Supporting a 10ish year old device where newer OS can’t is opening the door for user headache.

The problem is that said device was the “ultimate unlocker”. With a SL4 you could choose the mixer or your decks.

However I suspect there won’t be an audio interface anymore. The market has evolved.

New market, your either a scratch dj or a festival act w usbs. Pick a team. Dislike.

Serato isn't locking anyone out, the SL boxes/software still work on previous combinations of hardware / software / operating system.

It would be one thing if they phoned home on ANY version and said the device won't work anymore but that hasn't happened. I can't speak on behalf on Serato but as a software company, you have to make, sometimes arbitrary, judgement calls on what and how long to support things as hardware, software, and the OS your users run is constantly changing.

Support doesn't come for free. If someone chimes in with a new laptop (say an M1 MacBook) trying to run old hardware (an SL box), it's a lot easier to point them to a help article that says it's not supported than mess around and the find out 4 support messages in.

The timing is a little bit weird, I personally think they should have waited for a major point release (say 2.6) to drop support but there's probably a tradeoff in doing that too... you're basically telling users all the new features you released in that new version won't be supported. People get excited about said new features, then come to find out your trusty SL box won't run it.

It's a bummer any way you slice it but in 5 years time, the cutoff date won't mean much at all other than that it happened.

FWIW there's plenty of software companies won't host or let you install older point release versions. Serato keeps a whole catalog (serato.com).

Let's also remember that the SL boxes are over a decade old now. For pro audio, that is a long time for any Interface to maintain support. Their are countless audio interfaces (outside of DJ interfaces) that no longer work with newer operating systems.

It sucks if you are one of the few people using Serato/Traktor/VDJ/RekkordBox/Mixxx with a Bozak, but almost all modern DJ mixers have built in DVS capable interfaces now. It's just time to either spend the money and pair your 100% analog mixer with a pair of CDJ's for digital or sell your analog Mixer and buy a digital mixer.

I see your all ready to get bent over and let serato double dip,

the hardware is perfectly fine regardless of how old it is,

this isn't like when they went from usb 1.1 to 2 with the sl1 /sl3,

What a bullshit argument, old hardware. Meanwhile y'all still be using technics turntables made in the 70s and no one never said they were too old to be used. They're regarded as classic hardware, and you guys want to tell me some mixers aren't?

At least release new interfaces, like a mwm phase with built in audio card at least that would serve a dual purpose.

Im going to have to make some serious decisions about how i go forward with my kit.. i currently use a Mastersounds Radius and a pair of 1210s for home use, i dont want to give up on either so i need some way of playing digital files on my 1210s, for now ill just keep Serato on an older version that works with the SL3 but if the day ever comes that it stops working ill be washing my hands of the company completely.

Ive already moved my gig controller over to Denon Prime, and i carry USBs for using on CDJs so Serato has gone from a pro product to nothing more than something i can mess about with at home. That's more their loss than it is mine.

Serato guys, if you're in this thread, please tell us what your plans are going forward for all us DJs who use 3 or 4 turntables and/or media players (CDJs/SC5K/SC6K) with analog mixers and Serato DJ Pro now that Rane's SL3/SL4 is no longer supported on up-to-date computers with up-to-date software. A lot of us are trying to make important decisions about whether or not to abandon Serato DJ Pro because of these changes which are abandoning us.

False equivalence.

As soon as you plug something into a personal computer that relies on an operating system to function it's going to have a shelf life.

Should Apple still support my LaserWriter? It still works but it only runs on OS 9. I may even have toner left!

Analog turntables were never intended to be plugged into a computer. And FWIW one of the reasons Panasonic ultimately stopped making them was they were built so well people ended up buying used ones anyway.


Seems the decision is pretty easy.

Look at it from their perspective. You can:

* Use your existing hardware on older computer software/hardware (don't upgrade)
* Buy a new mixer that supports Serato/DVS (serato.com)
* Stop using Serato

Ultimately only one of those choices benefits Serato at all. They really gain nothing unless you upgrade. They got their money years ago.

The last supported Mac OS version that even works on older Macs will be 3 versions old this summer.


That seems niche enough that a company like Reloop would benefit from a collaboration. If people are serious about this, people should stop bitching on a forum into the ether and start writing suggestions to companies who might care.

They can also invest in building interfaces and reaching out to Serato directly to work out a hardware deal. If there really IS that large of a market for interfaces still, start a crowdfunding campaign to make it happen. Otherwise, accept that what you want is too small for the current DJ market and move on.

1. This is an option personally for limited, reasonable time period, and that time period has expired.

2. Not falling into the buy-a-new/timebomb mixer trap, especially since Serato-certified digital mixers are much lower-end than their high-end analog counterparts.

3. Is defiantly an option if Serato insists on not offering as an alternative that allows us to keep purchasing and using their products, and this option is strongly being considered now that their do-not-upgrade-to-up-to-date software period has expired.



That's just it. Many of us are more than willing to pay for upgrades, whether they be in the form of new, up-to-date, Serato-certified interfaces (of which they profit from licensee fee), or better yet, a paid license that allows Serato DJ Pro to be used directly with hardware and without need for a silly outboard interface. "They got their money years ago" is poor thinking on Serato's part if that indeed is what they're really thinking because it stunts their growth, loses longtime customers, eliminates possibility to gain revenue by offering products that allow SDJP to still by countless of DJs who don't use mediocre Serato-certified digital mixers, as well as other paid upgrade like FX, expansion packs, and other premium feature plugins (Flip for examples). This dumb, short-sided move also likely has people exiting the Serato ecosystem like Serato Studio, Serato Sample, etc.

Not sure what you mean by expired? There's no "this software will self destruct on x/y/z date." No phone home. Again, Serato even keeps old versions of its software so you can run on older hardware.

If you upgrade your operating system on the computer or buy a new one, that's your choice, not Serato's and they can't possibly be responsible for every combination of OS and hardware.

B2B has been dealing with this with decades. There's companies that have multimillion dollar pieces of equipment (eg presses. imagesetters, scanners, Pro Tools rigs/desks, etc) where they only work on certain combinations of hardware and software so they keep them around since they're still functional. But they run them using old hardware/software.

And people are griping about a $600 box.


I won't comment on the "lower end"bit but, again, anything that connects to a computer is going to have a "shelf life", unfortunately.


So write to Serato and let them know. The more DJs that chime in the more likely they are to make it happen. This forum isn't really the place to do that anymore.

Anyone hoping for some Serato involvement in this thread, I highly doubt it seeing as it’s well over 250 comments and they haven’t bothered so far.

One has to wonder what they as a company are actually bothering with at the minute.

Right now? Ironing out the integration with the new line of Pioneer controllers dropping this quarter.

What I mean is my "personal" time limit for running an old, outdated OS just to keep hanging on waiting for Serato to get up t speed on things has expired.



Not sure who you're referring to, but I'm not bitching at all about that. I'd gladly buy another SL4 equivalent that works with up-to-date OSs. For some unknown reason though neither Serato or their hardware partners have offered no updated solution for this problem that I'm aware of.



Yep, and we're not falling for that ever again, specially considering the lack of features and performance of digital mixers.



I have, several times. It appears to be some sorta black hole though that never gets responded to. That's precisely why I said here earlier "Serato guys, if you're in this thread, please tell us" hoping, maybe foolishly, that Serato actually reads what their customers are saying and asking for here.

I had the opportunity to buy a rane 62 at a good price and since there is no driver with monterey and previous ones, I do not do it very badly because of rane, some mixers that are not cheap and they forget

Groundbreaking, more semi featured, overpriced stuff from Pioneer.

I feel outside of Denons work with the Prime series, DJ gear and software has really plateaued, it’s probably as static as it’s ever been.

As someone said above, I’d go out tomorrow and buy a new sound card that works on updated OS.

Speaking of controllers; I'm curious if/how Serato plans to address all the DJs who will eventually want to graduate from controllers to separate components and want nothing to do with being strapped to short shelf-life digital mixers.

Yep, I bought the Mastersounds as the mixer that will be with me forever… Aside from the discontinued Rane rotary and maybe a couple of high end products from the main companies, I don’t think any Serato certified mixer is built to the same standard.

Surely this isn’t the end of the road for Sound cards?

They aren't. They are not only ticking time bombs from the very moment they're purchased, they don't hold a candle to high end analog mixers in terms sound quality, materials, construction, etc. They're basically cheap disposable toys by comparison.

Another good question, does Serato have anything in the pipeline for when laptops are phased out. It won’t be long till teenagers expect their DJ controller to connect to their phone or tablet as a standard.

It's so dumb not giving people any options to run analog mixers. So there are either turntable users who always have a phase box with them (which could also house an interface like I said before) or cdj users. Why not have the cdjs unlock serato for an additional fee and use those as soundcards for your analog mixing needs.

There is so much room for innovation to move forward and still make money.

So what do I do now if I have to use a mixer in a club that is not serato certified? Serato killed the solution for this problem

There is no chance I'll bring my own mixer or controller!

Hate to troll but I've used the dvs competition with every most of the equipment mentioned here, and well let's just say when that platform opened up their software to use any and I do mean any soundcard should have really woke the guys over in Serato Land up ... Some of you hard core DVS users should be software agnostic and see how it works for you. It's working extremely well for me ...

You certainly aren't trolling, are you referring to Virtual DJ? id rather not have a 4th software to use, i already concurrently use Serato, RB and Engine to support the various bits of gear i own and use at gigs.

I like how Serato works as a GUI so hopefully they get their heads out of the sand and give us a new Soundcard.

I was talking about Traktor. I had a Rane 61 that won't connect to Serato on Windows 10 because of a "compatibility issue" . Opened Traktor and it works flawlessly. My DS1 works Flawless with Traktor. My 62 worked flawless with Traktor.

Traktor works with everything on my early 2020 MacBook Pro.

I'd definitely consider switching to Traktor since Serato appears to be abandoning customers (of which I've been a loyal one since 2004) who don't use inexpensive, disposable Serato-certified mixers. Only problem is according to Native Instruments, Traktor doesn't work with Denon SC6000, or Pioneer CDJ-3000. At least not at this time. Perhaps in the future though.

Yeah Traktor is a great alternative for abandoned Serato hardware. I actually started a mixer collection because of this. All those mixers I couldn't afford that just came out 6 years ago ... work with MacOS and Traktor or Windows 10 and Traktor.

It looks like this is strictly a rane to serato matter.

Djm 900nxs was released 2011 and still works with serato. Pioneer last updated the drivers in dec 2021. Last firmware update for the mixer was 2016 (after the nxs2 release). It doesn’t look like pioneer has to try hard to keep support going for a lot of their products either.

Inmusic bought rane to make money and the best way to make a return from that investment is…. (you guys can fill in the rest).

What is sad is that the serato business was built with the rane sl boxes.

www.instagram.com

Looks like Master is on 1/4” TRS

Battle style backache

It’s xlr, 1/4 combo inputs on the far left that picture is just blurry I’ve seen the official picture.

Yep, it's been leaked! I wonder how they got that torq to work on the motorized platters without a middle spindle.

Science, Engineering, awesome time to be alive

Its certainly ugly as sin.

LOL

Nothing new, possible since (at least) 2005…
www.skratchworx.com

Ah yes I forgot about those!

I remember they had to be hacked to fix the latency, I still have the files to do it, but can't remember the procedure. I did the back to one pair back in the day and I've never seen them since

Hack*

I've added a Serato Software Feature Suggestion here serato.com if anyone else wants to add their thoughts to it in hopes Serato actually reads that section of the forum and takes action.

Another toy controller that will undoubtedly sell like hot cakes. Certainly not a solution for the gripes mentioned in this thread though.

Yeah I’ll keep my Prime 2 haha, this thing will be easily 3 times the price and crippled somewhat.

I got a few locations who want to swap out old gear so the timing is perfect.

serato I am not going to abandon it because I see it easy to use and create your sets, I will continue with my mixars duo mk2 it has good sound

and my two technics mk2 of course 😉

Escucha Techn@ Flac (SET 4 JANUARY 2022) de dj vel@city en #SoundCloud
soundcloud.app.goo.gl

The Pioneer REV7 doesn't look bad at all with the JOG displays.

Certainly looks a fantastic bit of kit... not gonna argue there, scratch DJs should be really happy with it.

The man, the legend... spoken up on behalf of us all. Big up Mojaxx for this.

Watchwww.youtube.com

Amazing. 229 comments strong.

I agree, respect to him. Let's hope it gets the ball rolling if it isn't already!

Just noticed and remembered, all posts on Rane’s Forum have to be manually approved by a mod. So Rane is well aware. :-p

Yeah they are just immune to criticism about it

... and let it be known as popular as that youtube channel is Serato gives less than one fuck because those boxes are dinosaurs. Upgrade or bounce.

There’s currently no boxes to upgrade to tho…..

I think he meant upgrade to a DJ software that works with any sound card.. :-P

Yep, the Traktor Audio card is looking more and more suitable by the day. 2 ins and outs plus another set for recording sets or using as send and return for FX.

when i started with serato i had the sl3 good sound, then i sold it and now i have a certified mixer and 0 problems, now the sl3 had better audio quality

Sounds promising..! Is it class compliant, or are drivers required?

Not delved into it that far but it is supported by all the modern OS, which is better than what we have.

Traktor sucks big time...the software I mean, it's outdated, obsolete and full of bugs not even speaking at it's terrible sound...just saying haha

Not to mention the UI is STILL not optimized for high resolution displays... going over 10 years now.

Weren't you one of Traktor's biggest fanboy once upon a time. lol

I dunno man, I love Traktor. No issues ever, not once.

Serato I get that little red warning light on a new M1 Mac.

Traktor Pro 3 works with literally anything.

FYI many Serato users (new or not) mistake the "Limiter Warning" red light indicating that the file is clipping / distorting for the cpu warning light.
An M1 shouldn't have the cpu light come on.
So maybe you are making that mistake?

Clic on Help, then Show Tool Tips and hover over the light and read whats indicated in the tool tips area

This! I post random pics on my Personal Facebook every once in a while with the caption, “but will it run Serato?” I’ve run Serato dvs on some real trash machines and even some SBC’s without issues. The M1 should be more than sufficient.

I'm getting the red warning and a pop sound pretty often when I scratch fast. Maybe it could be because it is not native to the M1 yet. I don't know, but it runs smooth running DJ Pro.

I'm not a fanboy for any brand unless they pay me, I use what I consider the best for my needs and complain if something doesn't work or feels wrong or stop using it if it goes so bad. They are just tools for me not a religion, I'm all about the music not the gear, I praise Led Zeppelin not Apple.

So im in the same boat as everyone here with my sixty two and sixty four mixers.

Neither will connect to serato. Fine in ableton/asio etc. Tried win10 and win 11.

So got 2 paper weights now. Utterly disgraceful they can't sort out drivers to work.

Will test to see if can get them working in traktor as i believe they opened up software to any souncard.

Always prefered Serato for dvs and have used since scratch live sl1 days.

They can, they just don't want to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm never buying Rane again, yet my ddj SX still works

These mixers are still solid...just needs a little code done for win10/ 11.

Tested in traktor and think it will work if i had the proper time code vinyl. Seemed to be ok setting up.

Even if serato would do as Native Instruments did and open it up to all soundcards then we could still use our hardware.

Hopefully something can be done. No way these mixers should be forgotten about when built to last a lifetime.

So, I borrowed a traktor timecode and can use the sixty four as an asio device. All seemed fine tracking record signal and steaming audio. Sure that side of things be fine once I buy 3 records to have a mix.

However, i can't map the midi from mixer to traktor. It doesn't show up as a midi device.

Im now thinking these sixty mixers also won't work as a generic midi device under later operating systems. I assumed it was only going to be with serato.

Anyone know if this is the case. I thought midi would've just been plug n play.

nope, the driver also crapped out in some later win10 versions unfortunately, I would go with win7 or early versions of win10

NAMM has been and gone and nothing announced or shown... RIP DVS with Serato unless you want one of their 'chosen one' mixers.

Yeh I thought as much, thanks.

Ive saw a post on Rane forum with some guy using rufus to load an older version of win10.

Im going to partition my drive and do a dual boot with one OS as older win10, purely for Rane/Serato.

Are your setups strictly windows based, no access to Mac software?

Yeh all windows.

Got it working. Heres how

1. Created 100gb partition on existing OS drive. Just used windows to shrink my c drive by 100gb so i had space for older win10 os.

2. Created a usb boot drive using rufus to last supported version "Windows 10 version 1909 (build 18363)". Great tool that will download previous versions of Windows and make boot usb drive.

3. Booted and installed to this partition. Then installed all my drivers for motherboard gpu etc. Set windows to never update before going online. This will ensure i stay on working version.

4. Installed serato/rane driver.

5. Done all the serato performance recommendations.

Now I have my mixers back. Running even better now as os clean and setup for audio performance.

Also got a usb pendrive ready to do to any pcs in future

Going to do my new laptop as well.

That's really awesome, great it works out for you

thx. Sure my laptop will work oot welll too.

Might as well rehash this thread given that the forum is as well as dead with zero moderation.

Picked up a Traktor Audio 6 from eBay today so time to give VDJ a go on my M1 machine, if it works well for me it’s bye bye Serato. We live in a world of future proofing and an 8yr old laptop running on a 3yr old OS because I’m reliant on a 14yr old sound card is just not robust enough to be remotely sensible.

Reloop to the rescue. Too bad it’s only three decks though.

www.reloop.com

youtu.be

374 comments, i wonder if someone from Serato will finally add one lol.

I agree on the 3 decks but this box couldn't have been made any better for my setup, i can even power the DDJ-SP1 and LC-6000 from the hub, then power my laptop from the PD port.