I’d pay for it. This is actually the reason I switched back to Rekordbox for the time being. I can just pay the Rekordbox Subscription and use any mixer I step in front of.

A paid software unlock for using third party soundcards would be a miracle at this point…

…seeing as DVS users have been getting a cold shoulder since Serato DJ 1.9.6.

I won’t hold my breath for anything to change, but, it would be nice if some sort of path forward unfolds for users of analog mixers wishing to stay in the ecosystem.

Yeah I’d pay for that, I’d even pay for an up to date driver, or new hardware… anything that keeps us mixing on our 1210s and analogue mixers.

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

I think we should keep posting in these threads every day until said miracle happens. LOL.

I’ve been praying for piece in the Middle East for 23 years. It’s probably more likely.

It’s looking like there is more chance of me still becoming a superstar DJ, I’m 41 and been on the decks for over 22 years:)

37 and on the decks for 22 years. I’m on the same path to stardom! ;)

I should post here in this thread the message I sent to Serato support when the news first broke about SL card support removal and the lengthy response I received from one of their customer service managers.

So on December 9th 2021 I sent this message to Serato support:

“Tremendously bummed out at the very much anti-consumer decision to remove support for the Rane SL2/3/4 sound cards in the current Serato DJ Pro 2.5.8 update. Logically, as an owner of both the SL3 and SL4, it doesn't make sense to me that something that was working perfectly fine with 2.5.7 now can no longer function going forward... so basically I am locked into using 2.5.7. But yet it's perfectly fine to support the discontinued Pioneer DDJ-SX2 in the software? Why does it feel like DVS users are getting the shaft lately? I already own a SL3/SL4 and have no desire to buy an inferior Denon DS1 just to have compatibility with Serato DJ Pro versions going forward, or just to be compatible with Apple Silicon, but that's a whole separate issue.

This is a rock and hard place for DVS users using Rane SL2/3/4 sound cards. With no clear upgrade path going forward, we are all kind of shit out of luck, aren't we? Just stay on the same OS, same version Serato and same computer... or else. Kind of a shitty position to be in after spending all this money into the Serato ecosystem over the last 10 years. I have purchased countless Serato timecode vinyl pairs, Club Kit for my MP2015 (that I don't use anymore), a Serato DJ Pro license for my DDJ-SX2 (which is discontinued but magically still supported), purchasing both the SL3 and SL4 because I want to stay in the ecosystem with using my Xone 96 mixer with my turntables.

I get that time passes on and technology moves forward, but, removing support for something that works just fine in the SW with no clear immediate hardware replacement upgrade available, is just poor form and really pours a lot of salt on all the long time users that have supported Serato over the years by purchasing the SL2/3/4 sound cards.

I've been posting separately on the Rane forum as well regarding this matter, seeing other users chime in too, clearly there is demand still for these sound cards to continue functioning. They all didn't just stop working just because Rane (InMusic) stopped making them.

Perhaps I am just venting, but as a very long time Serato user, I need my thoughts to be at least put into words and sent along as feedback. I am truly gutted that given the context of my DJ setup I will now be forever stuck with where I am at now. Too bad.”

This is the response I received:

“Hi Caley,

Thanks for getting in touch.

Sorry to hear you're frustrated with our recent decision to stop certain devices connecting in Serato DJ Pro 2.5.8. We do sympathize with you, and other users of the Rane products you've mentioned, and please know that we did not make this decision lightly.

Both the SL3 and SL4 have received 10 and 12 year support, from their Scratch Live debuts', up to the last recommended version of Serato DJ Pro 2.5.5, and as you stated, technology is not perpetual, particularly when it comes to compatibility. Not only are they discontinued products as per their manufacturer, but their drivers and firmware have not been updated since 2016, and are not being actively updated.

Over the years we have worked hard to ensure these devices worked as well as possible using Serato software, and while it's less than ideal to introduce a cut-off, it's important to note that they should continue to work with the recommended version of Serato DJ Pro (2.5.5) alongside the recommend operating system (macOS 10.15 Catalina). Admittedly, you have already acknowledged this.

We do understand that some users may be able to get their devices working in some circumstances, however this is not the case for all customers, and for many customers it can result in a poor experience - even if they do connect.
We have tried hard to support users with older hardware over the years, but given we are no longer testing these devices, it makes sense to draw a line in the sand and recommend a final, supported combination of OS & software.
You're probably aware that Apple Silicon / ARM compatibility complicates this matter even further, considerably increasing the test & support workload.

The lack of a replacement DVS interface device is certainly regrettable, and feedback on this is something we do greatly appreciate.

We also appreciate your support in purchasing Serato DJ Pro licenses and expansion packs - please remember that these upgrade licenses will continue to offer functionality when used with supported, compatible hardware, so the lack of support with your Rane hardware does not invalidate these existing purchases, even though your support in purchasing them is greatly appreciated.

I understand this is probably not the answer you were hoping for, but I hope it provides even a little bit of context.”

Standard company answer-shit, what did you expect?
Your criticism comes to nothing, but the answer most consumers feel taken, you feel petted over the head, and in the end they don't give a shit. Because there are enough idiots who go along with this bullshit and continue to finance it ...

Can anybody here who is familiar with Serato’s business model explain, or at least speculate any reason why they wouldn’t simply offer a paid unlock option to solve the problem described in OP? It seems like a win-win no-brainer solution, but maybe I’m missing something for why it wouldn’t be.

Exactly!

If they’re worried about losing revenue, they could really lock you in by making the paid unlock subscription only.

I'm tired of of thinking about it. I'm just making the move to Rekordbox's Interface 2. I'm banking on a company that makes both hardware and software will be more "reliable". Although I don't hold much hope in any companies these days.

I'd advise against that... the phono preamps are notoriously AWFUL. It's been widely discussed since the box was released 4-5 years ago. Check around the web for some user experiences and test results.

At this point, better to wait for an Interface 2mk2 or Interface 4.

Just switch to virtual DJ. It's better than you think.

Thanks for the feedback. I can still use my SL3 and subscribe to Rekordbox for now. I'll keep an eye out for the next generation Interface.

My understanding is that there is something about Win 11 that makes SL 1-4 an issue. I'd sure buy anything that has the functionality to use an external soundcard for all the reasons listed above. It'll be cheaper than replacing my home use DJM-700

Perhaps SL1, but that's illogical with a SL2-SL4 64 bit ASIO Driver.

Do not forget what IMHO is a very important reason for opening the software to external sound cards - and the reason many still use analog mixers - Sound Quality. You know, all those threads with people belly aching about the sound of their Pioneer controllers! :)

Seriously, this would open up the opportunity to use real high-end sound cards, with markedly improved fidelity.

I have not encountered any issues testing ASIO on my Win 11 VM so far. So there are no issues running the SL2-4 on competing software like Rekordbox or Traktor at this time.

Can confirm the SL4 works flawlessly with Rekordbox on Windows 10.

I'd pay for a definitive solution as well, specially if it allows me to use the internal sound card of my mixer otherwise I'll keep with obsolete software and hardware in order to DJ with digital files, just as I've kept my Technics for decades now. Is not different if you think about it.

Friendly reminder that you can also use the Akai AMX as soundcard like an SL Box

Or the ds1 still.

Probably going to see a lot more people using the AMX as soundcards now lol

..."Serato staff regularly monitor this area - but please don't be offended if we do not comment on a thread. We are listening!"... so there's no need for Caps Lock!? :P

I've bought an SL2 and an (paid) upgrade for my Allen&Heath x:one DB2 years ago and I'd buy another one for new support & drivers for M1/Monterey. In case you doubt how many people have the same issue: Start a kickstarter campaign! : )

Interesting.

How? It only has 2 inputs and 1 output?

-Connect Turntables to the AMX Inputs
-Open Serato DJ with active DVS plugin
-AMX CH1 for the left side
-AMX CH1 Linefader complete open
-AMX Crossfader complete at CH1 on the left side
-AMX Master Output into CH1 of the second mixer
-AMX CH2 for the right side
-AMX CH2 Linefader complete closed
-AMX CH2 with CUE active
-AMX Headphone Output into CH2 of the second mixer
-Done

Ahhh, such hackery. I suspect audio quality would be compromised in such a setup... not that the Akai AMX seems like a high fidelity audio device anyway though.

Yes, but it works as a "workaround".

Bet that will sound amazing. You can do this with any Serato controller that supports Serato dvs. Of course, if someone, we’re to say, get their hands on a bunch of discontinued yet still support mixers primos and mod them to essentially be a dvs box, how much would you pay for it?

Still have a ds1 Box, might be a bright idea later down the line when the ds1 gets discontinued even tho it's class compliant

Updated Serato DJ Pro today and got the SL3 discontinued message and had to roll back to the last version supported. This really sucks, being one of the early adopters of Serato Scratch Live since launch back in the day this hurts. Had an SL1, SL3 plus bought all the packs, and made a lot of people buy Serato along the years... and now we don't have a vinyl audio card solution for Serato? It's now only controllers age? This sucks and I hate Traktor, what are some options ? I don't even want to think about library exporting and compatiblity... uggghhhh all good things must come to an end...

You can sync your libraries using lexicon and switch to rekordbox. It’s not as accurate as Serato, but you’ll still be able to use your sl3.

Mojaxx from DJ City TV is thankfully shining a light on this problem. Who knows though if there will be a response/solution form Serato. Geez this flippin' mess sucks big time. >>> youtu.be

I am happy he made that video. The comments on it are going OFF.

5:00am Eastern time 2/5/2022

9,987 views, 350 Comments

The Squeaky Wheel gets greased!

Love Mojaxx for doing that, he is a proper DJ who cares about the industry.

There has to be some responsibility put back on Rane here as well.

They haven't updated their drivers/firmware for these devices.

Mac & Windows development for these 'legacy devices' have not been updated.

www.rane.com

If development is not being continued to support these device Serato's hands are tied as well.

An OS update could break compatibility and then who is responsible to fix it?

If Rane is vocal about ongoing support and update their drivers and maintain them then there is a bigger arguement.

I see mentions of Rekordbox working with the SL4 etc.

That's great but wait until an update comes out that breaks functionality.

Who is fixing that? It's not the responsibility of Serato or Pioneer to fix that, it would be on Rane to fix their drivers.

This is where the hard cut comes in. They can provide the applications side support as a 'courtesy' but when it breaks and users are screaming....

Then what?

Maybe a new interface is being developed that can be supported going forward.

Native Instruments had the Audio 8, 10, etc, etc... not to mention other vendors that had DVS solutions as well.

Rane needs to be clear if support is ceased on the SL series period. If no work is being done that needs to be clearly stated not left for interpretation.

Just like the legacy mixers, then customers can make proper decisions to move forward for compliance.

Really and truly, Rane should have made the SL 2 - 4 class compliant from the start which would have made it easier to maintain development for them.

I was considering getting an SL box awhile ago just as backup device/collectors item.

But now I'm kind of glad I didn't do this, watching this happen. This gives me flashbacks of when I was witnessing the whole NI/Stanton/Final Scratch 2 debacle take place.

There is way too much radio silence going on right and customers need to know.

Can Serato support them in it's current state yes, but if there is any changes in the OS', or even in their own application and this break.

They have no leg to stand on currently and would cause a whole other backlash because they cannot fix Rane's drivers, etc, etc.

Serato had to make a hard stance, it sucks yes, but they can't hold back because of Rane.

Rane needs to speak up and let their customers know what the deal is.

It sucks in the computer based product world because these things do happen. Support ceases and even though the hardware is great, no support is no support.

No different than the Scratch Live to Serato DJ transition and we lost support for the 57SL/SL-1.

If you wanted to use it, you HAD to use Scratch Live and that was it.

Rane didn't make new drivers, etc, etc.

So if you look back at history, you do have an idea of what will happen...

You can even see posts on the Rane forum...

raneforum.com

raneforum.com

I had to laugh at the guy who claimed being made to use USB resulted in him ‘playing like trash’ and that he may not get booked again.

That aside I’d pay for a new driver if money is what they need.

Over a year plus looking forward and being here now I don't think there will be any extended support for the SL models nor the 61/62/64/68 mixers.

This is just my opinion based on my observations since late 2019 until today.

Maybe they will see the niche and make a Rane DVS-1.

4- Channel, Class Compliant, USB audio interface specifically built for DJ use.

So essentially a new 'SL-4' box with open support for the whole market.

It would be up to the vendors to support it but the background work would have been done already to have a successful product.

So.... who knows.

Obviously anyone who does it would have a successful product at this point if done right.

The only one's who really know why this decision was made, are the one's who are absent from this discussion.

Currently there are 3 Threads with 464 Posts about this, a YouTube video with 548 Comments (in 48 hours), and not one peep from Serato!

Seems to me a healthy, active Forum should have some two-way communication, and not be a one-way bitch session - takes "Mixing the truth with rumor and speculation" to a whole new level.

One the Rane side they are also absent from the conversation.

The thread I started has well over 300 comments and not a single person from Serato has joined in, it’s honestly beyond embarrassing now…. The fact they can’t even make a valid statement about it is the worst thing.

Mojaxx calling them out is great though, he has a massive voice amongst the DJ community and is a top bloke too who doesn’t deal in BS.

There are other class compliant interfaces (even tho in the used market) available, if Serato were to open up to all interfaces like the competition did. The SL3/4 are also ASIO compatible for windows machines.

Yes, but there is a point people are missing here.

SUPPORT

As long as the hardware manufacturer is working is with application developer, no issue.

The minute it becomes a 'it will work' situation and then breaks then it becomes the point the finger game and the customers suffer again.

This same logic goes for buying currently available $1600+ mixers. Should I refrain from buying them in case the mfg stops updating drivers?

No you choose to use what works with it or upgrade. That's the climate we're in currently.

As I said prior, whoever (could be Rane), but whoever decides to make an audio interface could make it open to any platform.

It could become the 'open' solution.

Serato can add it to the club kit as a supported device, and so on...

The SL interfaces already work with every platform, except Serato. Or did you use the term platform as OS or CPU Instruction Set Compatibility?

No, the SL box does not work correctly past Catalina and is also not compatible with the M1 platform natively.

So Catalina + 2.5.7 and older you're good, after that it most likely will not work without new drivers.

This also affects other devices also. For instance I have to upgrade to Catalina to run the newer Rane 72 driver because it doesn't work on High Sierra.

So luckily the older driver is still compliant.

After all this time I guess it's safe to say no solution will be coming...

Just ordered a Pioneer S7 even tho I prefer the independent channels FX depth of the Rane Seventy, Rane is scratched off my list of brands I'll buy things from in the future.

I'm still quite salty about not having a box/interface solution as sometimes depending on the club/booth or what time I'm playing I prefer to just use an interface instead of bringing my mixer... Switching mixers at 4 AM is often a bit of a nightmare on smaller booths.
A used Denon DS1 @ 500eur is a no-go for me.

Oh well...

Stay in the OS your box works and do a double boot if you need a more recent OS for something else, it's so easy that I'm starting to believe that some are complaining because just want something new to play otherwise get bored. It even saves you money!

That’s not a solution to the fact there isn’t a valid Sound card on the market that works with the DJ software we all paid for.

That's exactly what I've just done.

Luckily 2.5.5. saw the introduction of Serato Virtual Audio and the ability to turn off play count and most of the recent updates since then have been for hardware compatibility. Feature-wise the only thing I'll miss on those occasions I have to roll back will be scratch banks and I can live with (out) that.

I'm not happy about it either but there's no way I'm gonna let the SL3 (or 62, 68) become redundant to ME, just because Rane/Serato have decided it's redundant to them.

Rock it till the wheels fall off baby!

I'm still surprised they never re-worked the drives to maintain compatibility for such expensive devices.

I mean yeah support gets dropped for products eventually, but these were still some high-end units that are not 'dead'.

The radio silence is a frustrating factor in this situation. It really sucks for the people in this predicament.

However, in the meantime 2.5.5 and High Sierra will keep you working for now.

This is bullSh!t Serato, I have been your customer for 20 years, you started the company as digital vinyl solution, and I understand some hardware can become incompatible, but there is no new hardware to replace it? So vinyl DJs, which supported you through all these years, are now obsolete? Why is there no new audio card to support your software? How is carrying a mixer around everywhere a solution? Knowing about all this discontinued hardware audio cards who is going to buy a mixer that is going to be later obsolete too? They should release a new box or open up the software to be used with any other compatible soundcard.

I would buy the new Serato soundcard if we were forced to upgrade, but leaving us without a solution is not how you treat your lifelong customers. I have already started my migration to Traktor, I can't believe how this company has gone so downhill...

You're hardly alone on this. Many of us are sadly being forced to move away from Serato until if/when they ever wanna decide to keep us as customers by simply offering products that allow us to perform with Serato they way we have been for for nearly two decades now (high-end analog mixers). As said countless times already; we're more than willing to pay for solutions, but until those solutions are made available to purchase, Serato won't see another dime from us.

Lord, why not use 2.5.5?

With multiple versions why not have one for DVS on the SL boxes and one for everything else?

Some of you folks forget the drop off of legacy hardware since SSL became SDJ as well. So much for using the stuff for 20 years, but it's just because it impacted YOU this time around that you care.

I remember how many people jumped ship for Traktor back then too. The internet just wasn’t in the palms of everyone’s hands back then, so you didn’t see the complaints. ;-)

Well, to be fair, when that happened there were updated soundcards/mixers made available. So a clear upgrade path was obvious.

Not so much this time.

They made a whole video when they killed the ttm57sl and SL1 box, 2 products.

Also, they gave a reason because of USB 1.0 not cutting it anymore.

This time around they they killed at least 5 mixers, and 3 soundcards, no video, no nothing.

Last time it was USB 1.0 but you had the option if getting a new soundcard, this time it's "lol we can't be bothered to write new drivers" and no solution is provided apart from owning a Denon ds1 which you can't get anymore

And that was just a cheap excuse.
Sometimes I still perform with my TTM57SL and Scrach Live.
No problems and no complaints.



It is what it is.
A profit-driven business decision with no technical necessity.
To a certain extent this is also understandable, but it is absolutely not customer-oriented and old-customer-friendly.
It's chicken shit.

But they haven't "killed" anything with it, the package of software and sound card/mixer works exactly as it was advertised and sold, so nobody has any financial or technical disadvantage, nobody is restricted or ripped off.

There are plenty of powerful (and cheap) Intel Macs on the market, installing Mojave isn't rocket science, and Serato versions up to 2.5.5 are all still available as downloads.
This means that everyone can continue to work with the old hardware as usual for the next 10-20 years.

I`ve learned 4 lessons from this whole experience
1.Avoid All Rane Products At all cost because Rane isn't Rane anymore its just Inmusic.
2.Slowly get used to using virtual dj because it supports almost everything with USB
3. No company in the Dj industry truly cares about customers they only care about profit
4. Serato & Rane won't care when you complain about issues that involve both companies

100% agree.


Nah, I wouldn't go that far.
VDJ is definitely a good program (I've had a license for years), but I don't see it as a replacement for Serato.
Every program has its target group, but VDJ doesn't pick me (and many others) up because in many places it's just not what I expect.


That is true.


Of course, a contractor who brings money is more important than a consumer who consumes anyway...

But the consumers/society are themselves to blame, because they willingly allowed themselves to be re-educated from customers to consumers.

Welcome to the new millennium.

i am acually working on this right now :)
if serato doesn't listen, we'll make it ourselves.

www.reddit.com

Careful. The last project we started, serato discontinued support of the parts we were harvesting to make it happen.

Standing by to learn more.

Post already removed by admins there :(

Seriously? What parts were you harvesting

We have 6 boxes of NS7 II interfaces.

oh i see so that's the reason the ns7ii got discontinued all of a sudden lol

i have actually reached out to serato, and since it's just midi, they should be find with it :)

here is their response:

Bruce T. (Serato)

Oct 25, 2022, 00:47 GMT+13

Hi there,
Thanks for reaching out.
 
"I'm sure that you can understand that the scope of what is possible, and the ways in which people would potentially cause errors in the MIDI mapping due to these files means that we cannot provide support for any actions taken with MIDI mapping outside of Serato DJ.
 
While you're welcome to manually edit the MIDI mapping file for your controllers, any issues or difficulties that are faced because of this are outside of what we're able to assist with."
 

so it sbould be fine cause you need the license and some kind of dongle.

here is the video: www.dropbox.com

it got taken down because my phone posted it multiple times. thats what the mods told me...

and here is proof that you need nothing more:
www.dropbox.com

You do not seem to be using DVS in these videos.

here is also proof that it was my fault the post got removed:
www.dropbox.com

yeah i said i am working on it. it's not done yet :)
but phase and rane 12s work. since sl boxes lock midi faders and eqs, i haven't got a solution now

when





when i'm done moving i can check my 62... i have some ideas i want to test

We should 'hack' this supported unsupported thing
Or
Make a truly modular (basicly 2 but snap in upgradable 3/4ch) supported solution and kockstart/indiegogo it so we get all the upset users money and interest. Its can't be that hatd anyway

But it looks like the best solution in the short run will be selling ALL my Vestax mixers (07 pro, 07 ISP, 05 mk4, 37 Pro) and buy a Rev7 to use SDJ and Stems....
I hate now both Rane and Serato... as time goes by I hate them more and more.
If VDJ would have P'n'T in the same way... or I could use it as a vst I probaly will never look back.

I want cover art/label based browsing,
Multi screen support
Proper remote support
Full unlock if you buy the fu&*ing program
And a forum where they listen to their customers

Not a crazy list, specially for the last 2-3 points

Go and burn in hell Serato!

I’ve used Serato and Rane since the 57sl came out. With you man, but got out the game in 2017, just coming back now. At 1st it was a lot to take in, but now, don’t feel so abandoned, as DJay, VDJ, Rekordbox and tractor pro all seem promising. Whatever the case, as of the last few days, Will never buy another Rane product (unless it’s a 57sl MK3 with the same theme, even if it has a screen) and hope I can fully leave Serato, I wouldn’t of mind paying for software here and there, every 7 years or so, but what they did is unacceptable. I’ve always believed one person can make a difference, and I hope once I find software to replace Serato, I’m going to promote the shit of it. This shit got personal. Lol

Not if you hold yourself to a standard. I don’t want to be seen a Touch Bar laptop! Ewww. I’d rather get a PC. Lol which I would drive off a cliff.

Reloop to the rescue. Too bad it’s only three decks though.

www.reloop.com

youtu.be