Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

Serato DJ Sound Quality

DJSCIASCIA 5:56 PM - 14 March, 2014
Today I was playing through serato DJ and decided to play right after through rekordbox. I must say there is a very noticeable differance in sound. Is it me or anyone else notice.

I'm playing on a 900srt, cdj2000nxs and the latest MacBook Pro with retina.
smokeyjoe 8:00 PM - 14 March, 2014
Dont know about record box but there is a difference between sdj and scratch live ( with scratch being superior by quite a bit ) but i believe they already know about this
DJSCIASCIA 8:50 PM - 14 March, 2014
I haven't play on scratchlive since I got my srt in oct. That's crazy that the "obsolete" software sounds better then the current supported one. I hope they are able to rectify it for the next update.
938MyDJ 12:32 AM - 15 March, 2014
The sound quality of CDJ2000Nexus is way superior over SDJ.
Too bad the soundcard of these units don't work with SDJ just like the V7s... or how they work with Traktor.
Gabe FM 2:50 PM - 15 March, 2014
DJ compared to Scratch Live definitely has a different sound, warmer Bass and Mids.
smokeyjoe 12:52 PM - 17 March, 2014
Quote:
DJ compared to Scratch Live definitely has a different sound, warmer Bass and Mids.

Totally agree
Ilir87 1:26 PM - 17 March, 2014
When I make a mix with Serato DJ, the sound of the mix is never as good as the original songs I mixed. (I use the DDJ SX and 1.6 software)

And yes, I tried EVERYTHING !!! Can't figure it out which one to blame, the controller or Serato DJ ?
Andrei Matei 5:15 PM - 29 November, 2014
Hi Everyone,

To revive this thread a bit, I I rented some gear from my local DJ rental place this weekend to do a bit of testing in my home. The results I found are very concerning. While none of this was done in a professional club setting, I hope the results are helpful nonetheless. Here is a breakdown of the gear I own that I used for the test and the additional gear I rented:

I have:
- DJM-900 Nexus
- CDJ 900s (MK1s)
- SL3
- Numark V7s
- Two laptops both with OSX 10.9.5 Mavericks
- QSC K10

I rented:
- Additional SL3
- Pioneer DDJ-SX
- PIoneer DDJ-SR

The point of this test was two fold, 1.) to see if Serato DJ sounds inferior to Scratch Live on the same HW, and 2.) to see if DDJ-SX/SR sound worse than a DJM-900. Here were my steps:

Test 1: SL3 w/ SSL 2.5 vs. CDJ-900 via Rekordbox, both on DJM-900
Result: Same great sound, no difference noted.

Test 2: Both SL3s, both on SSL 2.5, each on separate laptop, using DJM-900.
Result: Of course, sounded identical, as expected.

Test 3: One SL3 on SSL 2.5, other SL3 on Serato DJ 1.7.1, using DJM-900.
Result: Serato DJ sounded duller, flatter, almost as if the sound was being compressed or limited.

Test 4: One SL3 on Serato DJ 1.7.1 and other SL3 on Serato DJ 1.7.2 beta, using DJM-900.
Result: Serato DJ sounded the same between both of these versions.

So, so far, we've established that I have found that Serato Scratch Live sounds BETTER than Serato DJ on equal HW. Now we move on to comparing Serato DJ with the SL3 on the DJM vs. the other controllers.

Test 5: SL3 with Serato DJ 1.7.1 and Numark V7 on Serato DJ 1.7.1, both on DJM-900.
Result: No discernible difference in sound quality.

Test 6: Numark V7 on Serato DJ 1.7.1 on DJM-900 vs. DDJ-SX on Serato DJ 1.7.1. (Both were able to be hooked up at the same time to my QSC K10 due to dual inputs on the speaker.)
Result: DDJ-SX sound flatter, duller, and more hollow than DJM-900. Even more apparent via headphone output.

Test 7: DDJ-SX vs. DDJ-SR.
Result: DDJ-SR sounds even worse, muddy, tinny, additional sound degradation.

So I have concluded:

1.) I'm sticking with SSL 2.5 because it sounds noticeably better. Not to mention things like echo effects are STILL distorted and not fixed jn Serato DJ 1.7.2 Beta.


2.) Pioneer's portable controllers (SX/SR) sound noticeably worse than Serato DJ with an SL3 or V7 on a DJM-900. Being as Serato DJ already sounds worse than SSL, and these controllers sounding even worse, I don't see how people are ok with this.

I don't understand why we're moving backwards instead of forwards in SQ with Serato DJ.

Hope my testing helps someone and perhaps the Serato could chime in as well. (Yes, all devices had the latest firmwares updated, and both laptops had clean installs of Mavericks and SSL/DJ only w/ latest drivers.)
DJSCIASCIA 5:41 PM - 29 November, 2014
Great job with the testing Andrei. I have ditched Serato DJ until this gets worked out. Sound quality is extremely important to me and I am currently using Rekordbox full time now and I'm actually digging not having a laptop in front of me and using a usb stick instead.
DJ Fluke 613 7:16 PM - 29 November, 2014
You guys have too much time on your hand.
Andrei Matei 7:45 AM - 30 November, 2014
Quote:
You guys have too much time on your hand.


It only took about an hour. :)
SG SOUNDS 1:35 PM - 30 November, 2014
Would love to see serato step up to the plate and comment on this....THIS IS A KNOWN FACT SSL SOUND QUALITY IS SUPERIOR SDJ WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT SERATO??????WE ARE WAITING FOR YOUR REPLY...
DJSCIASCIA 4:12 PM - 30 November, 2014
Quote:
Would love to see serato step up to the plate and comment on this....THIS IS A KNOWN FACT SSL SOUND QUALITY IS SUPERIOR SDJ WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT SERATO??????WE ARE WAITING FOR YOUR REPLY...


It's true. This has been known for a while now and I figured it would be fixed or at least acknowledged by Serato.
Mr. Goodkat 4:40 PM - 30 November, 2014
i always found 2.33(which was one of my favorite versions pre 2.5) wasn't as loud as 2.5 ssl and sdj was louder than them both by about 1db vs 2.5 and 2.5 db with 2.33. but i wasn't scientific accurate.
dj Krazey leo 11:34 PM - 30 November, 2014
Great info Andre Matei most of us who actually care about sound quality will stick to what works better and sound better which is ssl 2.5 serato hq please raise the bar in the sound quality of Sdj it's very noticeable.
Serato, Support
Martin C 9:54 PM - 1 February, 2015
Hey guys,

I am surprised by some of these results - we've got plans to run some deeper investigations to figure out exactly why Serato DJ does not sound the same as Scratch Live so we could potentially make improvements.

I can't make any promises as to when I can share you the results of the investigation but hopefully at some point soon.
benictrs 10:46 PM - 1 February, 2015
Hello sadly i must agree with Andrei the sound quality of Serato DJ is worse compared to the defunct scratch live :(
Please Serato step up your game and do rectify this issue . It affects all of us . This is actually pretty sad .
SG SOUNDS 3:58 AM - 2 February, 2015
Quote:
Hey guys,

I am surprised by some of these results - we've got plans to run some deeper investigations to figure out exactly why Serato DJ does not sound the same as Scratch Live so we could potentially make improvements.

I can't make any promises as to when I can share you the results of the investigation but hopefully at some point soon.


Im surprised you guys now realized this
Serato, Support
Martin C 4:16 AM - 2 February, 2015
Yep, its surprising indeed. There aren't many reports of it considering all the other feedback we get - its possible some change was later introduced and this issue has not always existed.
smokeyjoe 9:50 AM - 3 February, 2015
Hi Martin
I think with any new product there is a settling in period and for those of us who use both products with our Rane Boxes you choose which one you will use depending on the gig. I only cam across this on my Saturday night gig when i decided to try serato DJ instead of scratch live and i actually thought there was a problem with their funktion 1 system and so at the end of the night I ran some test and there is a massive difference in the quality of the sound.

I used the same song and then got the other dj,s laptop and rane box and ran the same song through 1 macbook serato dj and the other scratch live and and had the same song matched up and used the mixers cross fader between the 2 products and it becomes more apparent the sound difference.

The best way I can describe it scratch Live is much warmer the sound with a great sounding bass and serato dj sounds quite toppy and screatchy.

This is just my 2 cents maybe it is different for others
BleedR 10:53 AM - 3 February, 2015
It may sound weird to you, but try resetting the usb buffer and setting it a bit higher! I experienced a sound improvement with SDJ! Can you confirm that?
Mr. Goodkat 11:20 AM - 3 February, 2015
Quote:
It may sound weird to you, but try resetting the usb buffer and setting it a bit higher! I experienced a sound improvement with SDJ! Can you confirm that?


this
BleedR 11:22 AM - 3 February, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
It may sound weird to you, but try resetting the usb buffer and setting it a bit higher! I experienced a sound improvement with SDJ! Can you confirm that?


this

this & that
Mr. Goodkat 11:24 AM - 3 February, 2015
just saying, so many people have come over to sdj with their buffers set too low for their computers and/or their computers arent powerful enough to run the program well. its a daily issue on the board.
BleedR 3:34 PM - 3 February, 2015
The issue is mainly driver based what you are talking about, sure there are a few cases that are based on the cpu power, but this is not the majority!
djburnee 4:28 PM - 3 February, 2015
Hi, how can i reset the USB Buffer?
BleedR 4:58 PM - 3 February, 2015
Quote:
Hi, how can i reset the USB Buffer?


Move the latency usb slider in the setup to somewhere and press apply
djburnee 5:06 PM - 3 February, 2015
Thanks
DJ Tecniq 6:07 PM - 3 February, 2015
5 is prob a good setting. If I can't rock SDJ on 2 usb buffer then I'll stick with Scratchhlive for now. Fresh cuts are a priority👌
Andrei Matei 1:26 AM - 4 February, 2015
Hey all,

I've always left my buffer at 10, both on SSL and SDJ. I've also tested this on latest-model Macbook Pros (Retina/Non-Retina and Airs). It's unfortunately not the buffer settings...its more subtle than a "buffer is too low" problem which would be much more apparent.

I think the reason there have been more rumblings about SQ lately vs. when SDJ was introduced is because only recently (since 1.6) did the SL2/SL3/SL4/Rane62/68/etc. gain support.

In the early days of SDJ, when it was controller-based only, folks didn't really have anything to compare it to. It wasn't until we could A/B test with the same hardware, that differences really became apparent. I always assumed the controllers didn't sound good because they are controllers, and left it at that, vs. think it was a software issue. I think folks that use controllers are also perhaps less sensitive to sound degradation than those who are willing to lug club-grade gear everywhere because it sounds/feels better.

P.S. Thanks for looking into this for us, Martin. It is MUCH appreciated. Let me know if I can personally be of any assistance. I'd love to see some headway made on this so I can finally leave SSL in the dust and pick up a snazzy new 57MKII or Rane 64. :)

Andrei
SG SOUNDS 2:08 PM - 4 February, 2015
Quote:
It may sound weird to you, but try resetting the usb buffer and setting it a bit higher! I experienced a sound improvement with SDJ! Can you confirm that?


What setting did you hear this improvement? 5 or 10?
DJ Remix Detroit 2:37 PM - 4 February, 2015
Quote:
5 is prob a good setting. If I can't rock SDJ on 2 usb buffer then I'll stick with Scratchhlive for now. Fresh cuts are a priority👌


this
BleedR 9:29 PM - 4 February, 2015
For me it was from 1 to 2
maarawoe 9:47 AM - 10 March, 2015
I didn't believed that there is some noticeable sound difference between SDJ and the old Scratch Live until today.
I have downloaded Live 2.5 and realized how much better it sounds...- the bass is much more rich and the hats are much more smoother and not so much aggressive as in the SDJ. When switched back to SDJ, every kick which was strong but soft in Scratch, sounds like when kicking a can in the SDJ

Must say that I am very disappointed that the sound quality has changed as the standard for Scratch was very high ( been using it in 2006 and 2007) and when comparing SDJ with it, it sounds like a crap...
Is there any chance that Serato will look into it and do something about it?
SG SOUNDS 11:08 AM - 10 March, 2015
Quote:
I didn't believed that there is some noticeable sound difference between SDJ and the old Scratch Live until today.
I have downloaded Live 2.5 and realized how much better it sounds...- the bass is much more rich and the hats are much more smoother and not so much aggressive as in the SDJ. When switched back to SDJ, every kick which was strong but soft in Scratch, sounds like when kicking a can in the SDJ

Must say that I am very disappointed that the sound quality has changed as the standard for Scratch was very high ( been using it in 2006 and 2007) and when comparing SDJ with it, it sounds like a crap...
Is there any chance that Serato will look into it and do something about it?


This is unacceptable in my opinion...They upgraded everything else in SDJ except matching the sound qaulity of scratch live or making it sound better...Serato does stuff sometimes that really make you scratch your head.....
maarawoe 11:30 AM - 10 March, 2015
This should be somehow addressed as this is really not acceptable..... :-(
A_Jack 12:15 PM - 10 March, 2015
I also thought SDJ sounded bad somehow but I think it has something to do with Auto gain. When stopped using auto gain it now sounds perfectly fine. Can't compare to SSL at the moment though because I don't have it installed anymore.
hvn 7:58 PM - 10 March, 2015
During some gigs last year (had none so far this year) I also had the impression, that SDJ sounds not as good as it should sound like. I can imagine that it's some kind of clipping, as if SDJ raises the level internally whilest loading the track.
I tried to reduce the level with the small "input-gain" controls and this seemed to work - unfortunatelay each single piece of music has to be corrected ... Using "Auto gain" didn't have the same effect - as far as I could test this.
@SERATO: Please have an intensive look at this!
maarawoe 8:52 PM - 10 March, 2015
I found following (not sure how relevant this is but definitely affecting the qaulity for me) - somewhere I read that serato doesn't take the mp3 replay gain into account and calculates the gain on its own. Well thats not quite true - I had a track which was obviously clipping so I have changed the replay gain value and was very surprised that it was no longer clipping in the serato. Another track had auto gain set to 99db and my auto gain was set to 95db - it sounded like a crap... After changing the reply gain value, it sounded fine.
So I don't know what is true - is the reply gain really being ignored? Is the auto gain fine?- i don't think so......
hvn 9:04 PM - 10 March, 2015
I forgot to mention that I (almost) only own FLAC-files.
My tests/experiences are based on FLACs, not MP3s.
maarawoe 9:29 PM - 10 March, 2015
I am talking about mp3. But obviously it doesn't matter much :-)
Andrei Matei 2:34 PM - 11 March, 2015
I think the issue here is that the Serato team intrinsically doesn't feel there is a problem and that these tests we are doing are subjective. While SQ and "what sounds good" is perhaps indeed subjective, I do NOT feel that the "slightly different audio coloring" of Serato DJ is a step forward, or even on pace with SSL. It sounds worse to my ears and to those who I have A-B tested with. (Ive done blind-tests with non-DJs listening in the clubs I play at regularly and nearly everyone pointed out the differences.)

It really comes down to the audio engine. Since Serato DJ was initially made for controllers, and most controller folks aren't that particular about SQ I gather, I wonder if a complete sound engine overhaul will have to be made for Serato DJ 2.x before we get SQ parity with SSL...
DJ Tecniq 5:32 PM - 11 March, 2015
Exactly...I didn't buy an SL3 for it to sound like shit on SDJ least I can still use Scratchlive though :)
SG SOUNDS 5:40 PM - 11 March, 2015
To me the sound quality SSl out weights all the fancy new features in SDJ...Question is are they gonna fix this?
Mr. Goodkat 6:09 PM - 11 March, 2015
i used ssl a few weeks ago and it does sound better, after using a 900srt and sdj for the majority of 2014 to now in 2015.

last nite i opened both, 1.74 and 2.5 and just kept a/b'ing different files and ssl was definitely the winner.

as i stated at some point, when comparing 2.33-2.5-1.7x(might have been 1.6 at the time), even with a sound level app(of course its not scientific), there was a increase of a db in each program. I personally think 2.33 sounds better than both.

still, the better files, the better sound, so it really makes me want to step up that area, but with reedits and web files, thats not always a option.
bohlrocka 9:35 PM - 11 March, 2015
hi Andrei Matei,

did you recognize a difference in the led meters in Scratch Live compared to Serato DJ when you listen to the same song?
Because the only way I can think of how the software can change the sound, is some kind of clipping (when the led meters going red).

In Scratch Live the volume of each individual track is forced by the master level (recognizable in the led meters of each track).

Is Serato DJ behaving the same way or not?
DJ Tecniq 12:44 AM - 12 March, 2015
Why does Serato DJ still not have a master level yet? This way you wouldn't even need auto gain everything could be fixed with master level...👀
DJSCIASCIA 12:47 AM - 12 March, 2015
Quote:
Hey guys,

I am surprised by some of these results - we've got plans to run some deeper investigations to figure out exactly why Serato DJ does not sound the same as Scratch Live so we could potentially make improvements.

I can't make any promises as to when I can share you the results of the investigation but hopefully at some point soon.



Is Serato working on this during for the 1.7.4 beta?
SG SOUNDS 12:52 AM - 12 March, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Hey guys,

I am surprised by some of these results - we've got plans to run some deeper investigations to figure out exactly why Serato DJ does not sound the same as Scratch Live so we could potentially make improvements.

I can't make any promises as to when I can share you the results of the investigation but hopefully at some point soon.



Is Serato working on this during for the 1.7.4 beta?


No
deejdave 1:54 AM - 12 March, 2015
Quote:
Why does Serato DJ still not have a master level yet? This way you wouldn't even need auto gain everything could be fixed with master level...👀

You were already told this the last time you asked about this serato.com
But Serato DJ HAS Master gain as seen here www.dropbox.com
It is just your one device that you own that does not activate the software's master gain option.
deejdave 2:03 AM - 12 March, 2015
That being said I can notice a sound difference overall for sure. Like the OP I have not used SSL in quite a while as the features gained by SDJ are far too important for me to ever consider going back. I noticed it (again like the OP) with Rekordbox myself and only with certain tracks. Unfortunately I can not compare with the higher quality files as RB does not support .flac but I notice it with .wav and thankfully I am getting more and more .wav files in my collection.
Mr. Goodkat 8:24 AM - 12 March, 2015
after listening to it again this week, the time stretch is so bad in ssl, and better features in sdj, i think ill stick with sdj. id say the sound is like a 5 to a 6 out of 10 imo so its not worth it really.
&Midge 9:12 AM - 12 March, 2015
Quote:
It is just your one device that you own that does not activate the software's master gain option.


SL2, SL3 and SL4 user don't have master gain. I have raised this issue and Serato said they will be adding the feature, but I dont think it is a priority for them.
DJ Tecniq 12:09 PM - 12 March, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
It is just your one device that you own that does not activate the software's master gain option.


SL2, SL3 and SL4 user don't have master gain. I have raised this issue and Serato said they will be adding the feature, but I dont think it is a priority for them.
Ahhh well that's retarded what is the purpose of a rane box if it the program doesn't fully work correctly? I love the master level in scratch live this way if my gain levels are bleeding i can just turn master level down in the software and all my songs will be fine lol.
deejdave 3:56 PM - 12 March, 2015
Quote:
SL2, SL3 and SL4 user don't have master gain. I have raised this issue and Serato said they will be adding the feature, but I dont think it is a priority for them.

Correct and TBH I think you are right about their priority. I know the statement "this shouldn't be that hard for them to add" is overused but I truly feel this one fits the description more than most. The code exists and I feel like a "port" would actually be fine. Slip it into one of the public beta's and see what happens. Worst case scenario it does not work right and people have to wait for a new code for the feature.

Not for nothing it seems (at least to me) that the devices in which adjusting individual channel gains is super easy have a master gain and the devices where it is not as easy does not.
maarawoe 4:01 PM - 12 March, 2015
Would be sweet if someone from serato let us know that they are aware......
&Midge 4:50 PM - 12 March, 2015
I know the Serato Team must be uber busy (more so than most of us could image), but whilst there is lots of little things like this that are missing from SDJ it gives the long time SSL users something to moan about.

Don't get me wrong, new features are great. BUT.......

At some point soon I wish the focus would be to give the SSL users all the small missing features back. Then the focus can truly but on driving the SDJ project forward!!!

I love SDJ but missing features suck :(

My main problem with the SL2 is that when you run into an analogue mixer (for me either a Roland DJ 1000 or Ecler Nuo4) the signal has always been too hot even at 89db (its the same for SDJ and SSL), however the master allowed me to reduce the output down and I could bring my gains up to 12 o'Clock. Does this effect the sound quality? I'm not sure!

But like Dave said, I would miss the SDJ features too much to switch back.
BleedR 10:37 PM - 12 March, 2015
+1

They should make a running stable piece of software before adding more features!
Mr. Goodkat 11:30 PM - 12 March, 2015
its stable
deejdave 2:37 AM - 13 March, 2015
VERY stable.
BleedR 5:57 AM - 13 March, 2015
Reading the beta Forum i am Laugthing my ass of how stable it is ;)
maarawoe 8:29 AM - 13 March, 2015
Quote:
Reading the beta Forum i am Laugthing my ass of how stable it is ;)

You know what "beta" means, right?
Considering beta as a showcase of the stability of the application is something to laugh...
BleedR 10:13 AM - 13 March, 2015
en.wikipedia.org
Look for open beta aka public beta here.

It's ridiculous to have a version update that causes the application to crash, while it should include just a few updated functions! Anyway, the point I was thinking about was removing first the open bugs (looking are the issue numbering, 14k+ reported bugs (with corrected ones for sure)) and then doing such 'upgrades'
DJ Fluke 613 11:05 AM - 13 March, 2015
Quote:
en.wikipedia.org
Look for open beta aka public beta here.

It's ridiculous to have a version update that causes the application to crash, while it should include just a few updated functions! Anyway, the point I was thinking about was removing first the open bugs (looking are the issue numbering, 14k+ reported bugs (with corrected ones for sure)) and then doing such 'upgrades'


You are one of the most unrealistic people I have ever came across. Your statements are so vague. What makes something stable ? I have an Audi but others swear they wouldn't buy it. Same with Dell PC's, iPhone, fuck anything . what is stable for one is the opposite for another. I've been using itch since 2010 and ya man after 350 events its pretty fuckin stable.

You have an issue ? What have YOU done to get it resolved other than being negative on a forum?

You remind me of this guy I use to work with before I took my business full time. Just negative and thinks the world reflects around him.

Always keep this in mind, you need to accomodate to serato so the software works around your setup, not the other way around. So ya yours fails but do you really think its the software ? Like really is it bad coding ?
BleedR 11:29 AM - 13 March, 2015
DJ Fluke,
you seem like a smart guy, so I guess you could answer all of your "question" by just using the search function and taking a look in the archives.
Actually this is the SDJ forum, you can post your super dj mega 350 gigs for 4 years in the itch one, maybe some1 cares. I've done more then 500 with SSL, so what?

Actually except SDJ everything works fine for me in personal, but thanks for caring!

And again, using the search function should be the first step to gain intelligence, which would answer why I blame the software (confirmed reproducible software issues) and what I've done so far (like SSL private beta testing and stuff)

Kisses and good luck with your Audi, which obvious works, cause it's made in Germany and not New Zealand!
BleedR 11:32 AM - 13 March, 2015
And as of talking of competence, you were not even able to give your fb page right, so it's broken, you might want fix that Fluke!
DJ Fluke 613 12:32 PM - 13 March, 2015
Quote:
And as of talking of competence, you were not even able to give your fb page right, so it's broken, you might want fix that Fluke!


Have a great day boss :)
maarawoe 4:14 PM - 13 March, 2015
Quote:

Kisses and good luck with your Audi, which obvious works, cause it's made in Germany and not New Zealand!


You know nothing John Snow!
You can always switch to Traktor if you feel more comfortable with German products but trust me that I am having same issues with traktor final releases as I have with serato beta. The difference is that Traktore gets never fixed so I am pretty comfortable with some public beta crashes and instability - noone makes me or you to use it..
BleedR 5:38 PM - 13 March, 2015
@maarawoe

I bought a S4 some time ago, but got bored to keep both libraries up to date...
So it was a nice gift for my ex's brother who was doing dubstep.
Anyway, the EDM & Electro colleagues over here are no more using Serato or Traktor, most of them are using Record Box. As a Hip Hop DJ this kinda sucks, but I'm definitely considering it, runs solid rock (the feedback I got) and no need for a laptop (no more Jägermeister spilled on it) running some software.
I hope this is the future, and that consoles will be then the market for kids - what I feel fits the actual no pro status of SDJ.
You know Nokia owned the mobile market completely... Now there is no Nokia anymore.
I hope the future of DJing will develop this way.
smokeyjoe 6:18 PM - 13 March, 2015
This thread was not concerned at the stability of SDJ but more the sound quality between SSL and SDJ which I think we can agree there is a difference where SSL sounds better.
Mr. Goodkat 9:18 PM - 13 March, 2015
there is no forum section that's titled 'sdj works fine for me', there is a help section, therefore you will see many more posts on problems than with satified customers.

and ssl pitch lock sounds absolutely horrific compared to pnt. so to an extent sdj sounds better than ssl.
smokeyjoe 9:32 PM - 13 March, 2015
Again I was not talking about the pitch lock either I was talking about the sound quality from the same track played on both software and SSL sound far better than SDJ and again this is just my 2 cents

Stability and pitch lock were not the issue
Mr. Goodkat 9:34 PM - 13 March, 2015
but if you use pitch lock in ssl, which many people do, its sounds bad. so what you were talking about is right, its not like anyone notices if you have half way decent files. if you use record pools only, it sounds bad already, just not as bad.
DJSCIASCIA 9:52 PM - 13 March, 2015
Quote:
Again I was not talking about the pitch lock either I was talking about the sound quality from the same track played on both software and SSL sound far better than SDJ and again this is just my 2 cents

Stability and pitch lock were not the issue


Smokeyjoe is right. My post had nothing to do with stability or pitch lock. Taking into the account the same song at 0% pitch SSL sounds significantly better the SDJ. I try to keep my pitch close from +\- 0-2% where pitch lock won't be a issue.
Mr. Goodkat 9:56 PM - 13 March, 2015
how would you guys rank it in a 1-10 scale? id go with sdj at a 5 and ssl 6-7
alec.tron 9:25 PM - 16 March, 2015
Since this was written by someone from Serato -
Quote:
we've got plans to run some deeper investigations to figure out exactly why Serato DJ does not sound the same as Scratch Live so we could potentially make improvements.

So Serato confirms there is something off with the sound from SDJ ?
Anything conclusive yet ?

Cheers.
c.
deejdave 9:36 PM - 16 March, 2015
I think they were confirming hearing the reports here and furthermore pointed out they were surprised to hear it. I think they also confirmed they would look further into it and I think you are interpreting it as Martin has noticed the same thing. Martin noticed the reports................. that is all he said. Hopefully there is enough feedback to assume he will in fact be able to reproduce it though by one of the methods mentioned above.
hvn 8:33 PM - 17 March, 2015
Quote:
During some gigs last year (had none so far this year) I also had the impression, that SDJ sounds not as good as it should sound like. I can imagine that it's some kind of clipping, as if SDJ raises the level internally whilest loading the track.

To check this theory, I just plugged my ddj-sx to the line-in of my computer and recorded a 0 db sine wave from a ripped test cd (flac-format): The result was a beautiful sine wave - no clipping at all.
So there must be another reason for the "strange" sound of SDJ.
maarawoe 10:20 AM - 19 March, 2015
Sounding bad even today....
benictrs 8:19 AM - 27 March, 2015
Nothig new in this isue ?
SG SOUNDS 11:42 AM - 27 March, 2015
Quote:
Nothig new in this isue ?


Nope
maarawoe 7:36 AM - 28 March, 2015
Any news today? ;-)
BleedR 3:51 PM - 28 March, 2015
They need to push the 1.7.4 first out, so BETA issues have priority.
1.7.4 means $$$, so wait till they sell the club kit and get cash.

Maybe then someone will address this issue!

Weren't you teaching me what beta means?
Now I teach you what economics mean ;)
smokeyjoe 6:46 PM - 14 April, 2015
Any update on the sound quality on Serato dj 1.7.4 compared with SSL or are we no further forward ...... I will test out on Saturday myself but just wondered if anyone had a chance to compare the 2??
benictrs 10:19 PM - 14 April, 2015
It's pretty much the same thing :-/ sound quality whise . Could someone else alsoo confirm this ?
DJSCIASCIA 3:45 AM - 15 April, 2015
I'm sure if it was fixed they would of added it to their list of "bug" fixes.
Cee-T 7:28 AM - 15 April, 2015
just wanted to confirm the probs from my side. same picture every week when playin with fellows using ssl. Everytime doin the changeover from ssl do sdj i have to increase the djm800 gain about a quarter turn to keep the sound somewhere NEAR to the preciding - not speaking about the "warmness" or differences of the sounds in particular.
Master gain could for sure solve SOME of the problems coming along with the whole thing.. f.e. playin in clubs having their power amplifier in line with a hardware or software which can give more output-power.. often i have to play with a (again: normally djm800 as the standard over here) master AND gain turned to the limits.. that shit cray!
Mr. Goodkat 9:55 AM - 15 April, 2015
where is the master volume set in ssl? sdj seems hotter than ssl to me.
DJ Tecniq 1:40 PM - 15 April, 2015
Quote:
where is the master volume set in ssl? sdj seems hotter than ssl to me.
there is a master gain at the top right of SSL it is even in offline player it's super useful cause SDJ doesn't have it👎 not for the SL3 that is...for what reason I have no idea👀😳
maarawoe 1:55 PM - 15 April, 2015
Quote:
often i have to play with a (again: normally djm800 as the standard over here) master AND gain turned to the limits.. that shit cray!


That sounds suspicious...
The quality is definitely not good but its not so bad so I would need to push gains to the limits...
What is you audio level (autogain) set in your serato preferences? - I have it set to 95db I think
With my djm850 and sl3, I am having my gains usually at 9-12 o'clock to get the PFL to +4 - +7db on channel and master what is ideal level of loudness.
I think you should check your settings....
Mr. Goodkat 6:11 PM - 15 April, 2015
serato dj is so loud with a 900srt if you dont turn the mixer down at least -3. personally im at -6.
mr187 10:11 PM - 15 April, 2015
Quote:
I haven't play on scratchlive since I got my srt in oct. That's crazy that the "obsolete" software sounds better then the current supported one. I hope they are able to rectify it for the next update.


I believe it is mainly due to Rane's better Hardware. My Rane hardware don't work on sdj so I can't verify this/
deejdave 10:27 PM - 15 April, 2015
LOL probably safe to assume the ONLY way people would have been able to state this is by A/B comparisons using hardware compatible with BOTH software................... AKA Rane hardware.
DJ Tecniq 12:15 AM - 16 April, 2015
Scratchlive has "always" been better than SDJ - End of thread👌
deejdave 12:39 AM - 16 April, 2015
No luck even with your new MacBook Pro?
DJ Tecniq 1:16 AM - 16 April, 2015
Quote:
No luck even with your new MacBook Pro?
Won't have that till sunday👍
LJ_WOOLSEY 7:14 AM - 16 April, 2015
Quote:
Scratchlive has "always" been better than SDJ - End of thread👌


What a load of bollox ssl can't do most the things sdj can and ssl can not support or use 90% of the hardware sdj can. I used tobe a beta tester for ssl and trust me the damn thing was full of bugs and some real bad versions of that came about why do you think people stuck to 1.9.2 and never used anything any newer?

The reason you don't have issues with ssl now is that it's dead not updated so nithing wilk change or get broken it is what it is.

Any software you fix one bug and creat 10 new ones. It's a hard life and serato do do public beta to help get all the issues highlighted.

But you keep bashing that ssl never had a bug once bollox and it's the futer.

I use hid mode with cdjs so glad to see the end of ssl and they were buggy as fook and run like a bag if shite. Sdj they are fine.
BleedR 9:22 AM - 16 April, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Scratchlive has "always" been better than SDJ - End of thread👌


What a load of bollox ssl can't do most the things sdj can and ssl can not support or use 90% of the hardware sdj can. I used tobe a beta tester for ssl and trust me the damn thing was full of bugs and some real bad versions of that came about why do you think people stuck to 1.9.2 and never used anything any newer?

The reason you don't have issues with ssl now is that it's dead not updated so nithing wilk change or get broken it is what it is.

Any software you fix one bug and creat 10 new ones. It's a hard life and serato do do public beta to help get all the issues highlighted.

But you keep bashing that ssl never had a bug once bollox and it's the futer.

I use hid mode with cdjs so glad to see the end of ssl and they were buggy as fook and run like a bag if shite. Sdj they are fine.


But in the End the sound only matters to the customer ;)
LJ_WOOLSEY 9:55 AM - 16 April, 2015
Well if you use keylock in ssl that ready makes ssl sound worse than sdj with pnt.
DJ Tecniq 12:33 PM - 16 April, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Scratchlive has "always" been better than SDJ - End of thread👌


What a load of bollox ssl can't do most the things sdj can and ssl can not support or use 90% of the hardware sdj can. I used tobe a beta tester for ssl and trust me the damn thing was full of bugs and some real bad versions of that came about why do you think people stuck to 1.9.2 and never used anything any newer?

The reason you don't have issues with ssl now is that it's dead not updated so nithing wilk change or get broken it is what it is.

Any software you fix one bug and creat 10 new ones. It's a hard life and serato do do public beta to help get all the issues highlighted.

But you keep bashing that ssl never had a bug once bollox and it's the futer.

I use hid mode with cdjs so glad to see the end of ssl and they were buggy as fook and run like a bag if shite. Sdj they are fine.
funny I never seemed to have issues running 2.5 w/turntables n mixer with SL3.
LJ_WOOLSEY 12:50 PM - 16 April, 2015
Funny i have no issues running sdj and that setup.
SG SOUNDS 1:12 PM - 16 April, 2015
Quote:
Funny i have no issues running sdj and that setup.


I have no problems running sdj and yes all the new features in sdj are awesome..But me personally i rather have the superior sound quality of ssl than all the new features of sdj any day...SOUND QUALITY COMES FIRST..
when serato fix this then ill switch back to sdj...
Mr Wilks 2:56 PM - 16 April, 2015
Well I'll agree on the sound quality of SDJ not being as nice as in SSL.

I haven't used SSL in over a year now as last summer my HDD crashed and just went with SDJ so I never reinstalled SSL.

I've noticed the sound is much more harsh on an unforgiving sound system and just listening to the SX with SDJ and the SL3 with SDJ is noticeable, let alone SSL.

I'm thinking of going with the SZ just to try and improve sound as reports from various users have confirmed it's much better. I knew of the SX's sound before I bought it but still went with it but now want to strive for better.

Let's us hope Serato can increase the quality of sound in the software and I'll get better hardware solution.
LJ_WOOLSEY 3:20 PM - 16 April, 2015
Wish i had two sl3s to see what the difference really is.
maarawoe 3:26 PM - 16 April, 2015
Quote:
Wish i had two sl3s to see what the difference really is.


I wish I had only one sl3 sounding same with both... ;-)
deejdave 3:33 PM - 16 April, 2015
Quote:
Well I'll agree on the sound quality of SDJ not being as nice as in SSL.

I haven't used SSL in over a year now as last summer my HDD crashed and just went with SDJ so I never reinstalled SSL.

I've noticed the sound is much more harsh on an unforgiving sound system and just listening to the SX with SDJ and the SL3 with SDJ is noticeable, let alone SSL.

I'm thinking of going with the SZ just to try and improve sound as reports from various users have confirmed it's much better. I knew of the SX's sound before I bought it but still went with it but now want to strive for better.

Let's us hope Serato can increase the quality of sound in the software and I'll get better hardware solution.


Supposedly the sound is better from SZ or SRT Vs. the SX but again I don't notice a huge difference. It's not like SDJ sounds like trash. You actually have to A/B compare in order to hear the difference. For me (I probably sound like a broken record) I would trade the minimal sound difference for the VERY real difference and huge gain of the vast feature list that is only getting larger and stronger in SDJ.

I mean I literally do NOT have to use one or the other and I ONLY use SSL for testing purposes these days yet use SDJ all the time. Just did a practice set in the hospital with the wife who is giving birth to my firstborn ............................ t-minus about 2 hours BTW!!!! www.dropbox.com........................... which is why I am on a posting binge LOL
LJ_WOOLSEY 3:33 PM - 16 April, 2015
Has anyone here done a recording switching between both with same hardware?
Floren Munteanu 3:50 AM - 18 April, 2015
Quote:
Has anyone here done a recording switching between both with same hardware?

I did some recording tests on my DDJ-SZ and I can confirm the sound is duller on Serato, compared to Traktor. I'm wondering if I could record directly to my Roland R-05?
LJ_WOOLSEY 10:16 AM - 18 April, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Has anyone here done a recording switching between both with same hardware?

I did some recording tests on my DDJ-SZ and I can confirm the sound is duller on Serato, compared to Traktor. I'm wondering if I could record directly to my Roland R-05?


Thats now supported in scratchlive so pointless test it needs tobe Rane hardware that works on both same somg file loaded in each software keylock off on both software then keep switching between software so then we can all hear the difference.
deejdave 1:22 PM - 18 April, 2015
@ Floren they are looking for SSL/SDJ comparison so only the old Rane devices will be of any help here.
LJ_WOOLSEY 1:33 PM - 18 April, 2015
Shit my now = NOT lol
deejdave 2:17 PM - 18 April, 2015
Quote:
Shit my now = NOT lol

Sure does change the meaning of your statement with hat one word huh? LMAO I knew what you meant though :)
siroc5 2:54 PM - 18 April, 2015
Congrats DeejDave on the new bundle of joy!!!!
deejdave 3:47 PM - 18 April, 2015
Thanks bud!!
M.adaM 6:34 PM - 19 April, 2015
I wish someone could make a real test with some pro soundcards like Focusrite Forte or any RME cards and avoid any dj gear, only studio grade hw in the chain.
LJ_WOOLSEY 7:19 PM - 19 April, 2015
Quote:
I wish someone could make a real test with some pro soundcards like Focusrite Forte or any RME cards and avoid any dj gear, only studio grade hw in the chain.

you can't do that as ONLY BOTH support Rane gear so its a easy simple test i just don't have two the same i could record each then chop it up in some software but can't be asred lol.

i'm surprised everyone saying there is a big difference but no one has posted any evidence..
M.adaM 9:04 PM - 19 April, 2015
Maybe a cross test with the same pro soundcard between serato vdj and others.

I have ns7 II, but would like to know what sw to use.

It is strange that no hw manufacturer licensed any pro soundcard design for their gear.

There are trusted names with many evidence, but all these dj gear manufacturers are try to prove they can make better sounding devices. Not to mention the fact: pioneer is the standard. wtf? I never heard worse than pio. ok, behringer and noname brands. any pio sounds sh.. even at 0 dB.
I'm a sound engineer, with pretty good ears.

super strange things in this industry, or whatnot
deejdave 11:07 PM - 19 April, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
I wish someone could make a real test with some pro soundcards like Focusrite Forte or any RME cards and avoid any dj gear, only studio grade hw in the chain.

you can't do that as ONLY BOTH support Rane gear so its a easy simple test i just don't have two the same i could record each then chop it up in some software but can't be asred lol.

i'm surprised everyone saying there is a big difference but no one has posted any evidence..

The truth is (and I challenge everyone here) because it is minimal at best. The sound advantage gained by SSL from SDJ is absolute and I won't dispute that but it is not even a blip on the radar compared to the features gained by using SDJ.

Rekordbox is more or less 1:1 in terms of audio to output and you can hear a real difference between SDJ and it as the OP stated an as this post is entitled but SSL/SDJ is not nearly as much of a difference in my experience. The ONLY SSL/SDJ device I have left is the SL4 though so I can't speak for all cross compatible gear.

Prove me wrong though let's hear an A/B comparison between the two showing how horrible SDJ sound quality is. Most who know me know I would 100% invest the time if I truly felt the juice was worth the squeeze (<<<<Yeah I am HUGE on this <<<<) but I do not personally however I would be keen to see if I were wrong.
maarawoe 12:36 PM - 23 April, 2015
Need some attention.....
Cee-T 4:54 PM - 24 April, 2015
Quote:
I think you should check your settings....

it's turned off..
DJ Tracy G. 4:56 PM - 28 April, 2015
I can tell you I had some sound issues with SSL and SDJ and traced it back to the use of USB2 versus USB 3 port on my PC. Once I went to a USB2 only on either SSL or SDJ, the sound quality difference was very different.

I had a weird aliasing using USB3.0 and made a bunch of updates/changes trying to get the aliasing to go away. One day, I plugged into the USB2.0 port and the aliasing disappeared completely.

I'm an IT geek and have no idea what the software/hardware difference is to make that aliasing go away by using a USB2.0 port. I just know it works. I have seen other threads where others said the exact opposite and they only get good sound out of their USB3.0 port.
mr187 4:42 AM - 29 April, 2015
Quote:
I can tell you I had some sound issues with SSL and SDJ and traced it back to the use of USB2 versus USB 3 port on my PC. Once I went to a USB2 only on either SSL or SDJ, the sound quality difference was very different.

I had a weird aliasing using USB3.0 and made a bunch of updates/changes trying to get the aliasing to go away. One day, I plugged into the USB2.0 port and the aliasing disappeared completely.

I'm an IT geek and have no idea what the software/hardware difference is to make that aliasing go away by using a USB2.0 port. I just know it works. I have seen other threads where others said the exact opposite and they only get good sound out of their USB3.0 port.


Problaly because usb 3.0 use a different protocol. I see that VDJ sound better than Serato I thought it was just my controller just had a sucky sound but in fact it is the software sound engine controlling how good or bad it sound. tried it on both usb 2.0 and 3.0 but couldn't get Serato to pickup the controller on 3.0 properly but vdj did and it sounded good on both Serato might be emulating 2.0 on a 3.0 port or something making it sound like that.
Andrei Matei 12:30 AM - 10 May, 2015
Has anyone noticed 1.7.5 sounds better now? I don't have a big system to test on at the moment, but it seems the sound has reached parity now on my home system. Thoughts?
The Return of Dj Sparky 5:45 AM - 10 May, 2015
so your saying 1.7.5 sounds better then 1.7.4?

according to the change log for 1.7.5
they added support for the ttm57mk2 and a bug fix for the ns7ii
nothing else has changed
hvn 7:35 AM - 10 May, 2015
Quote:
so your saying 1.7.5 sounds better then 1.7.4?

according to the change log for 1.7.5
they added support for the ttm57mk2 and a bug fix for the ns7ii
nothing else has changed

Hi DJ Sparky,

SDJ 1.7.4 has not been released if I followed this forum correctly, it was "only" a beta-version. This explains the long changelog for 1.7.5:
serato.com

So maybe Andrei upgraded directly from 1.7.3 to 1.7.5, like I did yesterday. And the sound improvement - if there is any (couldn't check this by myself so far) - has been done in between.

Bye
Holger
LJ_WOOLSEY 11:13 AM - 10 May, 2015
1.7.4 was released! 1.7.5 was released the week after to support the ttm57mkii and had a huge show stopping bug fixed for the ns7
BleedR 2:03 PM - 10 May, 2015
Her you can download each final version...

serato.com


Changelog for 1.7.5 is bullshit, as it should contain only the changes stated by Sparky!

Quote:
Quote:
so your saying 1.7.5 sounds better then 1.7.4?

according to the change log for 1.7.5
they added support for the ttm57mk2 and a bug fix for the ns7ii
nothing else has changed

Hi DJ Sparky,

SDJ 1.7.4 has not been released if I followed this forum correctly, it was "only" a beta-version. This explains the long changelog for 1.7.5:
serato.com

So maybe Andrei upgraded directly from 1.7.3 to 1.7.5, like I did yesterday. And the sound improvement - if there is any (couldn't check this by myself so far) - has been done in between.

Bye
Holger
The Return of Dj Sparky 7:11 PM - 10 May, 2015
yeah just noticed the change log they have edited now for 1.7.5,

i'm nearly sure when i looked at it there was only two changes,
now they copied and pasted in all the changes from 1.7.4 to make it look like more of a update,
WarpNote 7:34 PM - 10 May, 2015
To be honest, I think its fair they've included changes in 174 into the 175 log, as most users would not have time time to update to 174 before 175 dropped. Or users might have missed the beatjump feature and club kit.
The Return of Dj Sparky 7:42 PM - 10 May, 2015
yes lying is always fair to the end user,

they should just include the running log below to show all the changes and break it down by version,

i.e.

1.7.5
Rane ttm57 support added,
bug fix for ns7ii,

-------------------------------------------
1.7.4
New Features

Beat Jump
Master Video Effects
MP3+G file support
EQ Colored Waveforms setup option
Disable needle search during playback option
Improvements to scratch response for CDJs in HID mode
Language support for German/French/Spanish/Chinese/Japanese/Portuguese


and so on
WarpNote 8:56 AM - 11 May, 2015
Serato is not lying on purpose here.
57mk2 support was probably schedueled for 174 and musikk messe. It then probably took them a little more time, and thats why there is a 175 in the first place. We all know users normally dowload the latest version. Maybe they should have worded it slightly different in the notes, but thats nitpicking. I dont see any big foul.
deejdave 8:47 PM - 11 May, 2015
This is also not the first time this has happened. Other versions were handled in the exact same manner even as recent as 1.7.3 which was just a hardware addition as well with about a month in between. This was in no way worse and does not seem like a form of lying. The information is all public. There just so happens to be not much time in between the two as well as not much added from the next version so a "merge" seems logical so to speak.

1.7.3 serato.com

1.7.2 serato.com
Mr. Goodkat 12:03 AM - 14 May, 2015
one thing i noticed about SDJ vs SSL is that when you slow a record down in SDJ it doesnt have the artifacts that it had in SSL. its more like traktor in the natural sound of a record. i used to point to that as a difference but for some reason i was messing around and noticed its the same in SDJ now. with pnt on and off. anyone else notice?
Serato, Forum Moderator
Samuel S 11:53 PM - 14 May, 2015
Quote:
yes lying is always fair to the end user,

they should just include the running log below to show all the changes and break it down by version,

i.e.

1.7.5
Rane ttm57 support added,
bug fix for ns7ii,

-------------------------------------------
1.7.4
New Features

Beat Jump
Master Video Effects
MP3+G file support
EQ Colored Waveforms setup option
Disable needle search during playback option
Improvements to scratch response for CDJs in HID mode
Language support for German/French/Spanish/Chinese/Japanese/Portuguese


and so on


The reason it's combined is because 1.7.5 came so quickly after 1.7.4 to add support for the TTM57MKII. It made sense to include 1.7.4 changes because it's still a new update. Those features are all still new, and we want people to know about them if they are updating.

sam.
maarawoe 5:52 AM - 15 May, 2015
And how about the sound quality, Sam? Are you guys aware? :-)
LJ_WOOLSEY 8:59 AM - 15 May, 2015
Isn't there a thread somewhere where someone has uploaded two samples but wont say yet which is from which software and seeing who thinks which one sounds the best???? Not sure where i see it tho maybe someone else can link it?
DJSCIASCIA 12:34 PM - 15 May, 2015
Quote:
Isn't there a thread somewhere where someone has uploaded two samples but wont say yet which is from which software and seeing who thinks which one sounds the best???? Not sure where i see it tho maybe someone else can link it?


serato.com
DJ Rebellious1 5:35 PM - 15 May, 2015
Been following the thread and I don't see that there is a remedy yet for the sound issue with SDJ. To me its an SDJ issue since I have SSL on my LT and SDJ on the PC. I was running both using SSL previously. Since updating to SJD (and I wanted to try it on the PC first), the sound quality has been horrible. I've been trying to diagnose what else could be causing this and so far I have nothing. I use a 62, and MK5's. None of the settings have been changed on the 62. The same track(s) I spin using SSL on the LT I also use on SDJ on the PC to test.

The sound from the SSL is full and rich. The sound from SDJ sounds like its coming thru a can at times and dips in and out. Goes back to the SSL... full and rich no matter the tracks. I really like the SDJ interface, but under these circumstances I have to go back to using the SSL which I really don't want to do. Will keep looking back here for any solutions in the interim. Has anyone having sound issues with SDJ dl 1.7.5 and resolved their issue?
SG SOUNDS 9:44 PM - 15 May, 2015
Quote:
Been following the thread and I don't see that there is a remedy yet for the sound issue with SDJ. To me its an SDJ issue since I have SSL on my LT and SDJ on the PC. I was running both using SSL previously. Since updating to SJD (and I wanted to try it on the PC first), the sound quality has been horrible. I've been trying to diagnose what else could be causing this and so far I have nothing. I use a 62, and MK5's. None of the settings have been changed on the 62. The same track(s) I spin using SSL on the LT I also use on SDJ on the PC to test.

The sound from the SSL is full and rich. The sound from SDJ sounds like its coming thru a can at times and dips in and out. Goes back to the SSL... full and rich no matter the tracks. I really like the SDJ interface, but under these circumstances I have to go back to using the SSL which I really don't want to do. Will keep looking back here for any solutions in the interim. Has anyone having sound issues with SDJ dl 1.7.5 and resolved their issue?


+1
SG SOUNDS 9:45 PM - 15 May, 2015
Quote:
And how about the sound quality, Sam? Are you guys aware? :-)


when comes to this topic they never answer back...pisses me off..
Lightning 10:35 PM - 15 May, 2015
I can tell a huge difference between running SDJ+DDJ-SX and XDJ-1000's through the analog channels of the SX reading off the USB stick. I can't really compare SSL anymore since I only have a SSL1 card.
I wish there was a way I could measure the fidelity differences.
Mr. Goodkat 10:50 PM - 15 May, 2015
still think its gain structure or internal gain is too high. its just too loud.
Lightning 11:18 PM - 15 May, 2015
Quote:
still think its gain structure or internal gain is too high. its just too loud.


I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the auto gain, I need to go back and revisit that theory some. Last year when I messing around with it I seemed to remember the quality went kinda crappy with auto gain enabled not to mention it was way too dynamically compressed.
DJ Tracy G. 11:44 PM - 16 May, 2015
We may need to help by providing more technical data. I don't see one graph to show any of the sound plots we believe we hear.

Most of this dialog including mine sounds more like a conversation we would be having about consumer electronics. The software is not support to have "a sound" Its just supposed to accurately reproduce whatever we put in - not better, not worse.

If we think there are differences, we should be able to at least show a graph using the specific setup we have. Serato has not much to investigate at this point IMHO.
DJ Tracy G. 11:45 PM - 16 May, 2015
...typo..."not SUPPOSED to have "a sound'
Lightning 3:04 AM - 17 May, 2015
I think we need a baseline file to test with. If we have a baseline then we can measure the range output of it. Probably would have to run it through a scope or a spectrum analyzer to log the data though
hvn 9:01 AM - 17 May, 2015
Quote:
still think its gain structure or internal gain is too high. its just too loud.

This is exactly what I think, too! Including some kind of (slight) clipping.

Although my tests did not prove this theory ...
serato.com
smokeyjoe 2:18 PM - 17 May, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
yes lying is always fair to the end user,

they should just include the running log below to show all the changes and break it down by version,

i.e.

1.7.5
Rane ttm57 support added,
bug fix for ns7ii,

-------------------------------------------
1.7.4
New Features

Beat Jump
Master Video Effects
MP3+G file support
EQ Colored Waveforms setup option
Disable needle search during playback option
Improvements to scratch response for CDJs in HID mode
Language support for German/French/Spanish/Chinese/Japanese/Portuguese


and so on


The reason it's combined is because 1.7.5 came so quickly after 1.7.4 to add support for the TTM57MKII. It made sense to include 1.7.4 changes because it's still a new update. Those features are all still new, and we want people to know about them if they are updating.

sam.


Sam is there any way one of you can answer the actual thread about sound quality between the 2 platforms ?

There are several threads all looking for some answers
BleedR 3:31 PM - 17 May, 2015
Quote:
I think we need a baseline file to test with. If we have a baseline then we can measure the range output of it. Probably would have to run it through a scope or a spectrum analyzer to log the data though


What about routing the channel back to a SL3 or SL4 box and recording the output in SDJ using the AUX channel? You would have an identical workspace. Completely in SSL and SDJ using the same hardware and file?
maarawoe 7:50 AM - 17 August, 2015
Bump....
Wizzu 8:50 AM - 17 August, 2015
Quote:
We may need to help by providing more technical data. I don't see one graph to show any of the sound plots we believe we hear.

Most of this dialog including mine sounds more like a conversation we would be having about consumer electronics. The software is not support to have "a sound" Its just supposed to accurately reproduce whatever we put in - not better, not worse.

If we think there are differences, we should be able to at least show a graph using the specific setup we have. Serato has not much to investigate at this point IMHO.


Exactly.

This is a typical audiophool thread: blanket statements, mere subjective impressions, no controlled comparisons, no volume matching, no data, no measurements, i.e. nothing vaguely resembling evidence. Gossip, really.

Usually, when people who claim "huge" differences between softwares or digital electronics are put in a controlled A/B blind setup with carefully matched volumes, most differences suddenly vanish...
Johnny H 8:20 PM - 17 August, 2015
Hi guys

Just tried searto and a new pioneer sx2 for the first time this weekend, love the system and loved serato software, but the sound quality of serato DJ is terrible.

Can't believe Traktor sounds better, (sweet and Hi-Fi sounding) I also own CDJ 2000s and CDJ 400s for the smaller bars and clubs, the sound of these decks blow serato DJ away!

Serato DJ seems so good in every way, so stable on my new mac book, no drop outs, so responsive with the sx2, it's a total joy to DJ with, apart from the poor sound quality ! it sound awful compared to everything else I own.

It sounds Dull, Muddy, Bass is not thumping, Top is not sweet, mids disappointing, it does not have a clubby thumping sound like CDJs and Traktor !

What is going on ??

how can the best DJ software in the world be sounding so disappointing, I really hope the rebuild the sound engine in Searto DJ and make it at least comparable to traktor i.e. sweet and clubby sounding.

I had such high hopes for moving over to searto as a long time club DJ, I use mainly lossless music, so that's why I notice a big difference in seartor. Trying to get away from CDs, but not sure I can live with the sound quality of serato! as it is at present

I'm so upset, hope it improves big time

Regards
LJ_WOOLSEY 8:41 PM - 17 August, 2015
Care to upload a comparison of Traktor vs sdj with the same audio file? Then link up hear?
Also do you use keylock? If so you really want to get the pitch and time dj plugin.
Johnny H 9:09 PM - 17 August, 2015
thank you for you feed back it is very much appreciated,

regarding pitch lock I will try this DJ plug, thanks for the advice, though my bug bare is not so much with the pitch lock, though I know some tracks sound awful when pitch lock is on.

It's the dull sounding output of sarato DJ, though I can only compare it with the Pioneer SX2 or and my PC when processing the music files. It's just so muffled and lacking stereo dynamics and separation, there is NO crisp clean top end, and deep clean bass. It's sounds close to 128bit MP3s

I using loss-less music files too! rips from CD's etc.

The same files in Win Amp sound better on the PC than in searto DJ ??? and this poor sound quality in searto reflects when using the SX2, on a big sound system as I experienced at the weekend.

This is such a shame, other than the sound quality of serato DJ, I only have praise in every way!! It is truly the best DJ software I have ever used and I have tried them all!

Let's hope the powers to be at searto can address this issue, there is lots of room for improvement on the audio engine.

I do also agree that there is a huge amount of gain on the levels too, but I can still live with that, as long as I'm not red lighting anywhere, hopefully clipping will be minimal.

But sweet sounding HI-FI Quality is missing big time......


regards
Wizzu 9:13 PM - 17 August, 2015
Quote:
What is going on ??


You're just making things up to promote Traktor, that's what's going on.

Unless you're simply fooling yourself. It's quite usual with audio in the hands of people who have no training in sound. Unlike sound engineers and other audio professionals - this includes rational, cold-headed, experimented DJs.

There's nothing wrong with SDJ's sound. If you claim diffently, please bring on some evidence. Not mere gossip and stories about "sweet sounding HI-FI sound" (LOL)

Quote:
It's sounds close to 128bit MP3s


Yeah, right. LOL
Johnny H 9:47 PM - 17 August, 2015
No I'm NOT!!

the latest 64bit versions of Traktor sound sounds poor too,

How dare you accuse me of promoting traktor!, get your facts right..... Wizzu

I moved from Traktor to Searto after investing money in N.I. Audio 8, Audio 6, Traktor Scratch, Traktor Pro 2 in the past, and due to the poor quality of the new 64bit version of traktor, I feel native instruments have lost the way!

I contacted N.I. support regarding poor sound, and they advised me to go back to version 2.6.8 of traktor pro 2, a older 32bit version.

N.I. support sent me the older version, 2.6.8, It sounded amazing compared to the new 64bit version of traktor. The Sound Of The New Traktor PRO 2 Is Ribbish

So I have no faith in N.I. ... how can they be releasing new 64bit versions of traktor that have all the new toys, but sound quality is rubbish and expecting DJs to use an old version, if they want keep pristine sound quality.

Thus why I have now invested in searto and a pioneer sx2.

Regarding sound, I am electronics design engineer, no fool! I design daily with FPGA's, Design 10 Layer Surface Mounted Circuit Boards and Program In C & Forth languages with Microprocessors.

Wizzu do your home work LOL.

When I not working In Night clubs, I own Allen & Heath X92 Mixers, CDJ2000s, Nexo PS15 & LS18, JBL SRX Speaker Systems. 4 Crown Macrotech 5000 Amplifiers.

My PC sound card is an RME Fireface UFX, some of the best A/Ds & D/As in the industry.

So don't talk to me about knowing good sound when I hear it.
mr187 11:41 PM - 17 August, 2015
I did a comparison with a VCI and ns7 controller connected to serato and traktor with a audio 8 dj left and right comparisons with wave files from professionally pressed cd's ran serato to left channel and tracktor in the right same wave file and traktor wins hands down. but for some reason I find myself still using serato. just wish I could get rid of the bugs. :)
Johnny H 12:13 AM - 18 August, 2015
Thank You !

What a breath of fresh air to hear from a knowledgeable person.

You talk more sense, than some people who need to clean the wax out of there ears and they think they are sound engineers lol. really.... not sure what they can hear?, but it's not as crisp and clean as it should be.

I also have to say Serato, is not just good or great, it is truly brilliant and amazing DJ software to use, it's the closest I have got to going back to my Technics SL1210 vinyl days.

But Serato needs a major rework on it's sound engine, then it would just blow away any other DJ software period. I'm not saying traktor is substandard, but I don't feel it comes anywhere close to Serato. I have nothing but the highest respect for Serato, and the engineers that have written built it..... period.

What a shame we are even having this conversation....
SG SOUNDS 12:48 AM - 18 August, 2015
Man Johnny H ive been crying about this ever since i bought the ddj sx...now im not a traktor user so i can't compare the two but what ive been crying about for the longest is the difference in sound quality between ssl and sdj..

Just like you put it in your post sdj bass sounds muddy compared to ssl...ssl bass is punchy and the mids and highs is crystal clear..i was playing around with the latest update from sdj this weekend and man they sure did improved on almost everything in sdj except the friking sound quality..

sdj runs smooth and flawlessly on my macbook pro but for the life of me im spoiled with the superior sound quality of ssl on my rane 62..now ive heard talks on other forums claiming that sdj sounds exceptional on the new 57mkii dont know how true this is but im reading it on different forums..
DJ Tecniq 1:35 AM - 18 August, 2015
I will have to do my own testing with my SL3 and compare the two. However if you are using a PC then that's prob why it sounds so terrible. Ever since I moved to Mac there was a huge difference in the audio compared to PC. At least that's what I have come to find with my old Mac and my HP. Mac blew it out of the water.
deejdave 2:02 AM - 18 August, 2015
This is simply a specific instance. The amount of variations in PC's is staggering. This is a little too vague.
Johnny H 6:11 AM - 18 August, 2015
Hi guys

For DJing I use..,,

a maxed out mac book pro i7 2.8ghz 16meg ssd and use a LaCie 2big 8tb external thunderbolt drive for my lossless music.

I only use an ultra high end spec pc to process my music, tagging, ripping and analysing in serato.

The a/b tests I have done is on the mac in a live DJ situation with serato vs tractor version 2.6.8 and with a cdj2000 playing the same music file as in serato DJ.

And serato sadly does not come out on top regarding sound quality. It's dull and muddy sounding.

This is while using a mac, can't understand really why it should sound better on a mac as its using the same hardware, so a little shocked also to hear mac should sound better in serato than a pc.

Regards
LJ_WOOLSEY 6:22 AM - 18 August, 2015
Still love to hear this comparison. Why can't all the people in here upload and show Serato this poor sound quality. Evidence really is needed. I don't own Traktor so am very interested in all of this.
DJ Tecniq 7:11 AM - 18 August, 2015
I believe it has to do with the Pioneer controllers. I have noticed the ddjsr doesn't even come close to my SL3 sound quality wise.
Johnny H 7:46 AM - 18 August, 2015
Really the best test is to do A/B tests against different DJ hardware on the same sound systems, running flat eq with the same lossless music files. That's how been doing comparison, your ears will soon inform you of what sounds the best.

Then ask other people listening what they think sounds best. It's not rocket science to compare and hear prestine sound quality.

Maybe I could take the time out to record the a/b tests.
Johnny H 7:47 AM - 18 August, 2015
I'm shocked to hear It may be pioneer hardware !
WarpNote 8:05 AM - 18 August, 2015
Quote:
I'm shocked to hear It may be pioneer hardware !

Why would you be?
The SX2 is mid-grade, not high end...

Have a go at the SSL/SDJ blind test, put together with a Rane 68 by DjMallon.
-> serato.com
Johnny H 8:25 AM - 18 August, 2015
I'm not convinced at the moment it is the pioneer, but even being a mid range device should still sound better than it does with searto DJ!

A third of the price n.i audio 6 sound card at £250 sounds better than searto and the sx2 pioneer controller. £850

I still think think is all down to audio decoding in serato DJ
DJ Tecniq 8:33 AM - 18 August, 2015
From my experience I have used the ddjsr. Hooked it up to my KRK. What I came to find is a slight hum from the controller. Tested with brand new cables. Do the comparison yourself. Have not tried the higher end controllers like the SX though. But the SL3 overall just had a cleaner sound👌🏻💯
smokeyjoe 6:45 PM - 18 August, 2015
To be honest this thread was started as a comparison between SSL vs SDJ sound quality and I still stick with what was stated at the start of this thread that Scratch Live definitely has a different sound, warmer Bass and Mids to Serato DJ.
Mr. Goodkat 7:19 PM - 18 August, 2015
i think ssl and traktor sound better than sdj, but how much? id say if it was a 0-100 score, and i had my preference it would be

ssl 80
ts2 82
sdj 78
cdj 2000 nxs with lossless file 86

its not a huge difference imo.
deejdave 9:11 PM - 18 August, 2015
Quote:
ave not tried the higher end controllers like the SX though.


As WarpNote mentioned the SX is mid grade as the SX2 is. The DDJ-SR is the bottom of this grade BTW.
In terms of Pioneer (Serato) sound cards the SZ, SRT & 900Nexus are the only high grade due to their DAC's etc.
mr187 1:09 AM - 19 August, 2015
Quote:
Hi guys

For DJing I use..,,

a maxed out mac book pro i7 2.8ghz 16meg ssd and use a LaCie 2big 8tb external thunderbolt drive for my lossless music.

I only use an ultra high end spec pc to process my music, tagging, ripping and analysing in serato.

The a/b tests I have done is on the mac in a live DJ situation with serato vs tractor version 2.6.8 and with a cdj2000 playing the same music file as in serato DJ.

And serato sadly does not come out on top regarding sound quality. It's dull and muddy sounding.

This is while using a mac, can't understand really why it should sound better on a mac as its using the same hardware, so a little shocked also to hear mac should sound better in serato than a pc.

Regards


on serato it don't matter mac or pc because it is using it's own hardware based sound card or controller.
Quote:
I believe it has to do with the Pioneer controllers. I have noticed the ddjsr doesn't even come close to my SL3 sound quality wise.


I don't think it is the controller I ran serato through a ns7 then vdj 8 through and then Traktor and there was still a difference through the controller I thought the ns7 sound card sucked at first but it wasn't the ns7 sound card but it was the serato sound engine.

Quote:
I'm shocked to hear It may be pioneer hardware !


I really don't think its the hardware Pioneer been in pro audio a long time.

Quote:
I'm not convinced at the moment it is the pioneer, but even being a mid range device should still sound better than it does with searto DJ!

A third of the price n.i audio 6 sound card at £250 sounds better than searto and the sx2 pioneer controller. £850

I still think think is all down to audio decoding in serato DJ


me neither my son pioneer cdj100 sound better than serato. sad but true.
cdj100 may not even be pro grade either.


Quote:
To be honest this thread was started as a comparison between SSL vs SDJ sound quality and I still stick with what was stated at the start of this thread that Scratch Live definitely has a different sound, warmer Bass and Mids to Serato DJ.


I believe SSL was written by Rane and SDJ was written be Serato.
deejdave 1:41 AM - 19 August, 2015
Quote:
I believe SSL was written by Rane and SDJ was written be Serato.

I know this is incorrect.
LJ_WOOLSEY 5:53 AM - 19 August, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
I believe SSL was written by Rane and SDJ was written be Serato.

I know this is incorrect.


For sure it was Santaaaaaaaa
smokeyjoe 6:57 PM - 19 August, 2015
lol
Mr Wilks 12:39 AM - 21 August, 2015
Okay.

So I've DJed on this system for 4 months now and it's awful. I've used the SX exclusively and tonight I'm rocking an SL2 through a Denon X1500.

Wow. The music is 10x better with so much clarity. I'm stunned at the difference. I'll be using this set up permanently now.

I think it's just the gear in many cases.
LJ_WOOLSEY 1:53 AM - 21 August, 2015
Quote:
Okay.
tonight I'm rocking an SL2 through a Denon X1500.

Wow. The music is 10x better with so much clarity. I'm stunned at the difference. I'll be using this set up permanently now.

I think it's just the gear in many cases.


SSL or SDJ?
Mr. Goodkat 6:56 AM - 21 August, 2015
yeah i had a friend that had an sx, its ok, but most 6-700$ mixers and up sound better imo.

top of the line mixers, there not much difference between the ssl and sdj, but a difference with traktor. i feel like ts2 has more clarity without eqing but serato has a more real sound thats not so samey all the time. if you have bad sounding files in traktor it helps a little, serato, your just gonna sound bad.
DJ Tecniq 7:51 AM - 21 August, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Okay.
tonight I'm rocking an SL2 through a Denon X1500.

Wow. The music is 10x better with so much clarity. I'm stunned at the difference. I'll be using this set up permanently now.

I think it's just the gear in many cases.
+1 curious to know ssl or sdj?

SSL or SDJ?
DJ Tecniq 7:53 AM - 21 August, 2015
Quote:
SSL or SDJ?
Wondering this myself😕
Mr Wilks 4:19 PM - 21 August, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Okay.
tonight I'm rocking an SL2 through a Denon X1500.

Wow. The music is 10x better with so much clarity. I'm stunned at the difference. I'll be using this set up permanently now.

I think it's just the gear in many cases.


SSL or SDJ?


I was on SDJ but wanting to fire up SSL over the next few days in the club.

Just the change in SL3 from the SX1 has made such a difference.

It was expected as Rane tech vs the Pio soundcard will always be in Seattle'so favour but the music sounded considerably better to my ears.

Would be interesting to try with SSL at some point.
Johnny H 12:01 AM - 24 August, 2015
After DJing last night, I can not stand the poor quality for sx2 & serato, so will be selling my sx2 right away, its only 3 weeks old lol,

But my next hurdle is where do I go from here ?

I love using searto but think traktor 2.6.8 sounds better, but then again I only have heard serato DJ through the SX2! oh and the PC sound card.

I after achieving CD quality similar to my CDJ 2000s which at the moment have not come close with the SX2 & serato DJ

Is serato scratch live better than serato DJ for sound quality ? what features are missing In SL vs SDJ

Should I consider the SL4 sound card and use my CDJ over a controller ?

I so want to fall in love with serato, but so far can't stand the Sound Quality! but this could be down to the pioneer SX2, what ever it is the two don't work well together.

I'm now not even sure If I would invest in the SZ controller, this has really turned me off pioneer controllers.

any feed back as always appreciated, j

Just want to be happy with the sound quality, I don't give a dam about any of the toys, fx, etc, I'm an old school club DJ that wants a pristine audio thumping sound quality

Regards
Johnny H 12:33 AM - 24 August, 2015
As so many DJs are saying the older searto SL software is sounding so much better than SDJ, why is this ??

Surely the clever people at serato should be improving on the sound quality with birth and release of a new product ? no degrading the sound ?

Yes with crappy mp3s there is going to be alot of DJs that either don't care or can't even tell the difference, but there are also a few of us old schol DJs that care more about sound over toys, features etc.

or is it features over sound quality ?

just can't understand how old products are the way to go if pristine sound quality is required, it all seems a little crazy.
Mr Wilks 1:27 AM - 24 August, 2015
Quote:
As so many DJs are saying the older searto SL software is sounding so much better than SDJ, why is this ??

Surely the clever people at serato should be improving on the sound quality with birth and release of a new product ? no degrading the sound ?

Yes with crappy mp3s there is going to be alot of DJs that either don't care or can't even tell the difference, but there are also a few of us old schol DJs that care more about sound over toys, features etc.

or is it features over sound quality ?

just can't understand how old products are the way to go if pristine sound quality is required, it all seems a little crazy.


Serato generally pumps out the same souname into the controller but as hardware is very different they can all sound different.

It's like playing a track through iTunes plugged into different amplifier & speakers. Some will sound worse than others.

Numark sounds different to Rane who sound different to Pioneer who sound different to Allen & Heath.

Personally I've not enjoyed the soubd through the SX and used an SL2 through a Denon mixer and it sounded much better... but it's pretty subjective.

I much prefer it over the Pio.
Mr Wilks 1:28 AM - 24 August, 2015
**same sound
bohlrocka 7:39 AM - 24 August, 2015
I can not confirm any audible difference using the latest SDJ version vs SSL together with a RANE 62 Mixer. PnT is even much better when using key lock. But an the other hand, PnT has a weird behaviour while scratching.
LJ_WOOLSEY 8:37 AM - 24 August, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
As so many DJs are saying the older searto SL software is sounding so much better than SDJ, why is this ??

Surely the clever people at serato should be improving on the sound quality with birth and release of a new product ? no degrading the sound ?

Yes with crappy mp3s there is going to be alot of DJs that either don't care or can't even tell the difference, but there are also a few of us old schol DJs that care more about sound over toys, features etc.

or is it features over sound quality ?

just can't understand how old products are the way to go if pristine sound quality is required, it all seems a little crazy.


Serato generally pumps out the same souname into the controller but as hardware is very different they can all sound different.

It's like playing a track through iTunes plugged into different amplifier & speakers. Some will sound worse than others.

Numark sounds different to Rane who sound different to Pioneer who sound different to Allen & Heath.

Personally I've not enjoyed the soubd through the SX and used an SL2 through a Denon mixer and it sounded much better... but it's pretty subjective.

I much prefer it over the Pio.


Exactly it's not just todo with the software all different hardware and sound chips and there iwn "sound" i used a numark ns7ii at a ub and to me it sounded way better than the pioneer mixer that was in there! It's all about what sounds good to you. But with all there is not a massive difference and 99% people in the venue would not notice for shit and even if they did when you are using what you think sounds the best someone out there will be like this sounds crap ect ect.

With sdj sounding worse than SSL This can inly stand for Hardware that supports both and thats only the Rane SL-2/3/4 61/62/68

When wilks says hes rane box sounds better than pioneer it is most likely the Denon mixer that is sounding better. If he had used a pioneer mixer there prob wouldnt of been much difference in sound.
Mr Wilks 1:42 PM - 24 August, 2015
Quote:
When wilks says hes rane box sounds better than pioneer it is most likely the Denon mixer that is sounding better. If he had used a pioneer mixer there prob wouldnt of been much difference in sound.


Very true.

I think this week I'll drop the Rane box into th er SX. I'll test that.
SG SOUNDS 8:57 PM - 24 August, 2015
Quote:
I can not confirm any audible difference using the latest SDJ version vs SSL together with a RANE 62 Mixer. PnT is even much better when using key lock. But an the other hand, PnT has a weird behaviour while scratching.


I can confirm there is a audible difference using the latest SDJ vs SSL...ssl sounds better,warmer,punchier more hifi than sdj
Johnny H 9:14 PM - 24 August, 2015
So why can't Serato use the same sound engine as Serato Live in Serato DJ ???

It would seem everyone is saying, quote....

"I can confirm there is a audible difference using the latest SDJ vs SSL...ssl sounds better,warmer,punchier more hifi than sdj "

If Serato is listening or even reading this forum, why why why is SDJ sounding so different to Serato scratch live ???

I'm now at the stage of scrapping my new SX2 !! after 3 weeks of owning it, just can not stand the muffled sound any more, even the eq on the controller does not sound sweet, or crossing over at the right frequencies ?

I'm not sure what way to go now,

1) Pioneer SZ ??? but think there may be a SZ2 just round the corner.
2) Pioneer 900 ???
3) SL4 ???
4) Rane Mixer Sixty-Eight ??

I still like pioneer as this is what I have always used, not not sure if I like the sound quality anymore ?

After having the sx2 for 3 weeks, this has now started to put me off controllers, though can not comment on the SZ, still maybe worth a try?

But .....

Should I now use Serato SL to achieve the best sound quality ? if so, how crazy is this!

using old software because the new version of SDJ does not sound as good as Serato Live

Have to say, Searto is brilliant, just wish everyone was bigging up the sound quality of Serato DJ......

Surly the powers to be at Serato must be listening to some of the feed back from their customers ???
DJ Tracy G. 12:11 PM - 28 August, 2015
Being an old synth dude, many people say some of the old 10-bit synth patches sound "better" than the 16-bit ones did. I hear on this thread 16-bit SSL sounds better than 24-bit SDJ.

16-bit SSL box and Allen-Heath Xone mixer versus NS7ii with SDJ and I think the SSL will win.

SL3/SSL and cheap analog mixer will sound better than SDJ with DDJSX.


There are so many variables to consider. I can say nobody is paying attention when we use terms like "warmer" and "fuller" though.
Johnny H 3:52 PM - 29 August, 2015
In relation to the sound quality of traktor vs searto DJ, traktor has inbuilt eq that mimics well known high end mixers, like AH xone 92. This really allows you to sweeten up the sound quality across the eq spectrum, and the eq crossover points sound so much better than on the sx2 eq.
Mr. Goodkat 8:36 PM - 29 August, 2015
why not stay with traktor?
Johnny H 1:02 AM - 30 August, 2015
Because.....

Searto has many great features, and I not hear trying to dis serato, far from it, we are just talking about sound quality and that could be more related to the hardware ?

serato knock traktor sideways on so many points, though both products are good in there own way, but.... I'm liking serato for the following reasons.

No.1 serato stamps the library on root of each hard drive, this is truly brilliant allowing you to take the harddrive to any serato install, traktor is a night mare moving your collection from pc to mac! on a continuous basis.

No.2 The crates in serato are so much better than traktor playlists, lot less cluttered and the don't get corrupted unlike in traktor.

No.3 serato show the full cover art unlike traktor

No.4 serato interface is much more simple and less cluttered than traktor, there is so much going on in traktor interface

No.5 serato is very stable and works like a dream, had traktor crash on both pc & mac, not fun when the dance floor is rocking.

No.6 serato feels closer to working with vinyl than traktor, just like the good old days of DJaying, love the feel of working with serato.

No.7 searto feels to me a more mature and supported product, the community and company seems very professional and installs faith. Would like to think searto support is spot on.

No.8 Love the idea of plugins that can be purchased to upgrade the product and add new features should one require them.

No.9 serato seem to spend a lot of time and effort supporting 3rd party hardware, thus ensuring stability and a varied choice of hardware for every type of DJ.

No.10 As a pro club DJ using searto for the last few weeks I have much more confidence and faith in using serato, so far I can't fault it, but still not over happy with the sound quality of the sx2 controller,

I'm sure there are many more plus points of serato, that just haven't come to mind right now.
maarawoe 7:35 AM - 30 August, 2015
Can't agree more on the vinyl emulation - I moved from traktor because of it. When comparing, traktor feels more synthetick compared to serato while serato is much more closer to real vinyl feel... The raw vinyl feeling :-D
mr187 4:14 AM - 1 September, 2015
they are both for djing
the difference is Serato is more for performance Dj's
Traktor is more for Electronic music dj's.
Mr. Goodkat 7:14 PM - 2 September, 2015
im not gonna lie, a/b'ed ssl and sdj, and ssl does sound better, sdj is really loud and bright.

i just dont think i could go back to ssl. I like everything in SDJ much better, but the sound is better in ssl.
Johnny H 9:54 PM - 2 September, 2015
Why?

The sound quality should be the same! In both sal and serato DJ . I just don't get why the sound should be better in ssl. And why have serato not listened to all this negative feedback about the sound quality in serato DJ and rectified this issue.

Serato DJ is brilliant, just a real shame people are not saying the same about the sound quality
dj Krazey leo 11:23 PM - 2 September, 2015
+100
SG SOUNDS 11:53 PM - 2 September, 2015
Quote:
im not gonna lie, a/b'ed ssl and sdj, and ssl does sound better, sdj is really loud and bright.

i just dont think i could go back to ssl. I like everything in SDJ much better, but the sound is better in ssl.


You couldn't of said it any better than that sdj is very loud and BRIGHT while ssl is loud but clear and the bass is punchy and warm...
Mr. Goodkat 12:12 AM - 3 September, 2015
Quote:
I just don't get why the sound should be better in ssl.


can't win 'em all as i would say
DJ Tecniq 6:22 AM - 3 September, 2015
Quote:
im not gonna lie, a/b'ed ssl and sdj, and ssl does sound better, sdj is really loud and bright.

i just dont think i could go back to ssl. I like everything in SDJ much better, but the sound is better in ssl.
Curious what hardware you tested this on?
Mr. Goodkat 9:23 AM - 3 September, 2015
on a sl3 and a srt 900. not saying its technical at all, but it is kinda clear that the sound is better.

seems like sdj could come out with a few eq options or a master eq as a paid plug in.
DJ Tecniq 9:43 AM - 3 September, 2015
Quote:
on a sl3 and a srt 900. not saying its technical at all, but it is kinda clear that the sound is better.

seems like sdj could come out with a few eq options or a master eq as a paid plug in.
ill have to test both with my SL3 since there's no master gain in SDJ I think that's the main cause as well as the auto gain is shit. Master gain should be a top priority it's what keeps tracks balanced and out of the clipping zone💯
DJ Tracy G. 12:29 PM - 3 September, 2015
all of the tracks should have the gain set already (mastered). The autogain is the devil and was much more useful back in the day when 128kbps files were floating in the environment along with 192, 256, 320. Auto-gain has outlived its usefulness.
Johnny H 1:13 PM - 3 September, 2015
Thought auto gain is designed to keep any music file to a near constant gain level, wavs, flac, mp3

It clear that even today CDs and others music sources are mastered at different gain levels.

So would think this feature is still more than useful, if it works correctly
DJ Tracy G. 1:27 PM - 3 September, 2015
the difference in gain between the lossless formats and 320 MP3 is not nearly as different as when people had a library half full of 128. Channel gain on the mixer is probably more appropriate these days - especially since the major differences these days are in the bass content.

When make-up gain is added at the input level across all frequencies evenly or when a file is artificially limited at all frequencies at the input level, this is where the lifeless and dull comments emerge.
mr187 8:16 AM - 7 September, 2015
ok I am tired of this game the reason ssl and sdj sound different is because sdj not making money like ssl did so the better sound is going to come to sdj as a plugin called SSL Audio Engine and it will cost $29 it will also have its own tab in setup where you can tweak the 28 band parametric eq, compressor, limiter, sonic maximizer, tube preamp, and subsonic harmonic processor. best of all each section can be disabled including the limiter.
benictrs 10:40 AM - 7 September, 2015
Quote:
ok I am tired of this game the reason ssl and sdj sound different is because sdj not making money like ssl did so the better sound is going to come to sdj as a plugin called SSL Audio Engine and it will cost $29 it will also have its own tab in setup where you can tweak the 28 band parametric eq, compressor, limiter, sonic maximizer, tube preamp, and subsonic harmonic processor. best of all each section can be disabled including the limiter.

This is priceles !!! Lol
maarawoe 11:09 AM - 7 September, 2015
Quote:
ok I am tired of this game the reason ssl and sdj sound different is because sdj not making money like ssl did so the better sound is going to come to sdj as a plugin called SSL Audio Engine and it will cost $29 it will also have its own tab in setup where you can tweak the 28 band parametric eq, compressor, limiter, sonic maximizer, tube preamp, and subsonic harmonic processor. best of all each section can be disabled including the limiter.


Or simply a plugin for down sampling to 16bit :-D
Johnny H 11:43 AM - 7 September, 2015
If only, would be serato dj best selling plugin lol

Even after 100s of post no one is any wiser why serato DJ doesn't sound as good as ssl

So crazy lol
Tommy Deem 1:14 PM - 7 September, 2015
Quote:
No I'm NOT!!

the latest 64bit versions of Traktor sound sounds poor too,

How dare you accuse me of promoting traktor!, get your facts right..... Wizzu

I moved from Traktor to Searto after investing money in N.I. Audio 8, Audio 6, Traktor Scratch, Traktor Pro 2 in the past, and due to the poor quality of the new 64bit version of traktor, I feel native instruments have lost the way!

I contacted N.I. support regarding poor sound, and they advised me to go back to version 2.6.8 of traktor pro 2, a older 32bit version.

N.I. support sent me the older version, 2.6.8, It sounded amazing compared to the new 64bit version of traktor. The Sound Of The New Traktor PRO 2 Is Ribbish

So I have no faith in N.I. ... how can they be releasing new 64bit versions of traktor that have all the new toys, but sound quality is rubbish and expecting DJs to use an old version, if they want keep pristine sound quality.

Thus why I have now invested in searto and a pioneer sx2.

Regarding sound, I am electronics design engineer, no fool! I design daily with FPGA's, Design 10 Layer Surface Mounted Circuit Boards and Program In C & Forth languages with Microprocessors.

Wizzu do your home work LOL.

When I not working In Night clubs, I own Allen & Heath X92 Mixers, CDJ2000s, Nexo PS15 & LS18, JBL SRX Speaker Systems. 4 Crown Macrotech 5000 Amplifiers.

My PC sound card is an RME Fireface UFX, some of the best A/Ds & D/As in the industry.

So don't talk to me about knowing good sound when I hear it.



NEVER had any problems with sound quality with, serato or traktor. Serato DJ sounds same as SSL, Traktor 2.9 sounds same as 2.6.8 on both laptops, HP and Apple

The software isn't the problem, it's the hardware and users.
Tommy Deem 1:15 PM - 7 September, 2015
Pls, record two sets, one with SDJ and one with SSL and upload so we can also hear the difference.
DJ Fluke 613 1:20 PM - 7 September, 2015
No one wants to do that, their all full of shit.
dj_foo 1:23 PM - 7 September, 2015
I will put my 2p in here.

I've been using Serato DJ and a DDJ SX. Up until recently I've heard no problems with the sound until I upgraded to the latest release 1.7.8. I noticed the sound was distorted out of my monitors.

The recording is fine. Its the sound coming from the controller which is the problem. So the way I see it there has been a change with the way the sound is processed and sent down the USB to be output to the speakers.

Recording wont change either way because its all being done internally. The issue is with the Master out on the controller. I will try to record into the line in of my Mac when I get a chance using VDJ and Serato and see if the difference is noticable and post up my findings.
Tommy Deem 3:38 PM - 7 September, 2015
So u say that u cannot record sound that comes out from ur controller?? ;)
dj_foo 3:41 PM - 7 September, 2015
Quote:
So u say that u cannot record sound that comes out from ur controller?? ;)


It's not that I can't I just need to change it all around and use audacity to record from the line in.
deejdave 3:41 PM - 7 September, 2015
Quote:
So u say that u cannot record sound that comes out from ur controller?? ;)

Quote:
I will try to record into the line in of my Mac when I get a chance using VDJ and Serato and see if the difference is noticable and post up my findings.
Tommy Deem 3:43 PM - 7 September, 2015
Until that, waiting some proof from this issue,
dj_foo 5:00 PM - 7 September, 2015
as per my post here - serato.com

I will do it tonight and post findings there between VDJ, SDJ and different versions using my DDJ SX (I will also check firmware is up to date)
smokeyjoe 8:45 PM - 7 September, 2015
Is there a chance someone from Serato can chime in here and confirm any of these differences in sound quality ?
DJ Fluke 613 9:31 PM - 7 September, 2015
They already did. See the link in the post above.
Heltino 9:50 PM - 7 September, 2015
far away from the discussed details....one point here is interesting:
the idea to have some "advanced audio addon" that is possible to purchase.

With a cool audio master output plug in I could avoid to carry a 31 band EQ with me for room accoustic reasons. It sucks to have an additional case with the EQ.....a izotope plug in would be a dream.

31 band EQ, tube, subsonic, harmonic.....izotope has such stuff!
G-rod 7:11 PM - 8 September, 2015
Quote:
far away from the discussed details....one point here is interesting:
the idea to have some "advanced audio addon" that is possible to purchase.

With a cool audio master output plug in I could avoid to carry a 31 band EQ with me for room accoustic reasons. It sucks to have an additional case with the EQ.....a izotope plug in would be a dream.

31 band EQ, tube, subsonic, harmonic.....izotope has such stuff!


+1
Johnny H 7:34 PM - 8 September, 2015
+1
Johnny H 7:35 PM - 8 September, 2015
Please bring it on, anything to make the sound quality better 😀
smokeyjoe 8:45 PM - 8 September, 2015
That is do with an upgrade mate nothing to do with this post which is using my Rane sl4 ssl sounds better than sdj
Quote:
They already did. See the link in the post above.



That is do with an upgrade mate nothing to do with this post which is using my Rane sl4 ssl sounds better than sdj

Still waiting for serato to chime in
DJ Tracy G. 2:41 PM - 9 September, 2015
all due respect, everyone is using those "better/worse" and "warmer/fuller" terms and no one has put up a graph. Originally, my only problem was that I had some aliasing happening that was more what I thought was related to USB than anything. Once I figured out my USB issue, I have no reason to try to compare SSL to SDJ sound quality.

It would be awesome for one of us to put up a trace using SDJ to SSL cards with the same input voltage, etc. and show us what many think we are hearing.
mr187 5:13 PM - 9 September, 2015
Quote:
all due respect, everyone is using those "better/worse" and "warmer/fuller" terms and no one has put up a graph. Originally, my only problem was that I had some aliasing happening that was more what I thought was related to USB than anything. Once I figured out my USB issue, I have no reason to try to compare SSL to SDJ sound quality.

It would be awesome for one of us to put up a trace using SDJ to SSL cards with the same input voltage, etc. and show us what many think we are hearing.


best thing to use is a reference white noise signal, that is what we used to align the system for concerts. It was a large complex system that made alignment easy.
watchman 9:26 AM - 19 October, 2015
Serato DJ 1.8.0 Beta sounds much better than 1.7.8, I've been trying all sorts to improve sound quality but IMO 1.8 sounds proper good now.
mr187 11:12 AM - 19 October, 2015
Quote:
Serato DJ 1.8.0 Beta sounds much better than 1.7.8, I've been trying all sorts to improve sound quality but IMO 1.8 sounds proper good now.


what about 1.8 vs SSL ?

I don't have the 57 anymore to test ssl
SG SOUNDS 11:44 AM - 19 October, 2015
Quote:
Serato DJ 1.8.0 Beta sounds much better than 1.7.8, I've been trying all sorts to improve sound quality but IMO 1.8 sounds proper good now.


was the sound quality upgraded? i dont see it in the release notes
mr187 11:48 AM - 19 October, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Serato DJ 1.8.0 Beta sounds much better than 1.7.8, I've been trying all sorts to improve sound quality but IMO 1.8 sounds proper good now.


was the sound quality upgraded? i dont see it in the release notes


me neither but they may have not said nothing because they calmed they sound the same.
deejdave 3:08 PM - 19 October, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Serato DJ 1.8.0 Beta sounds much better than 1.7.8, I've been trying all sorts to improve sound quality but IMO 1.8 sounds proper good now.


what about 1.8 vs SSL ?

I don't have the 57 anymore to test ssl

The 57 would not be of any help in a test anyways as it is not supported by SDJ. I am hoping peeps realize that the ONLY way to keep things consistent is to literally keep things consistent.

Same laptop
Same music files
Same Speakers
Same cables
Same hardware (Soundcard)
Same mixer (If using an SL box)
Same settings
Same atmosphere (room)
Same outlets even (to eliminate grounding variables etc.)

These are known as constants.

To be specific the ONLY thing that should be different is the Software/s you are testing themselves.

These are known as variables.

TBH even when following these precisely it is still not a 100% accurate test as the input devices (us who are listening) add more variation than literally all of the above factors combined. This is why when using words like louder, warmer, etc. I can get on board and sense the individual/s know what they speak of. When words like better or superior gets thrown around................ not so much as these words are open to interpretation. In the end this that or the other things are all pretty much based on opinions (with the exception of volume, clarity, etc. which are all able to be measured in some way) anyways.
soul63 3:23 PM - 19 October, 2015
Never used ssl.so have no idea if there is a difference to sdj..all i know is sdj sound quality is fine for me,using amx and mc2000.i use it to broadast with,as do all the people i know who do radio shows..never heard any complaints about sound quality from the djs or listerners
deejdave 3:45 PM - 19 October, 2015
It is all subjective. What some here fail to admit is the sound may be different in SSL but the sound in SDJ is by NO means garbage. Not in my atmosphere with my hardware and in my outlets at least LOL.
watchman 3:56 PM - 19 October, 2015
Have been using Serato for 10 years and have never heard it sounding this good, Serato DJ 1.8, has had major software changes, it's a beta so there's gonna be bugs but it does sound good.
Johnny H 10:10 PM - 19 October, 2015
I love searto and I'm still very new only a few months in but from day one of using it I have never been happy with sound quality. It's alway sounded dull, lacking crispness and detail, that aside everything else is great.

I have had issues with the sound quality on both serato pc and serato on my MBP and sx2.

I have even purchased an RME sound card ucx £900 BEST quality sound card I have ever heard and still have dull sound from serato. Every other media player package sound great.

It all very well people saying its all subjective and every person idea of sound is different bla bla bla.

But the same lossless file should sound the same quality within reason across many different pc or mac music players.

Sony sound forge, Winamp, music be, etc and they all do sound the same until I play the same lossless music file in serato! And its lacking stereo definition, it sounds dull and slightly lifeless in comparison to hearing the file in sound forge!

I'm not making this up it real ! And the new RME sound card which is truly the boll****s shows this up even more.

So this is truly music to my ears hearing that at long last the sound quality of serato has been addressed, can't wait to hear 1.8

Serato truly can be the best DJ software if they sort out the presstine audio sound quality that I so long for.

Here's hoping.......
soul63 10:31 PM - 19 October, 2015
Does anybody have a link to a mix/track that they consider poor quality?maybe i got low standards when it comes to sound quality..lol...but honestly i know at least 25 people i speak to regulary that use sjd for radio and mixes.and i'm just not hearing this issue with the sound quality
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 10:49 PM - 19 October, 2015
Hi all,

If you are using Rane hardware, you should definitely notice a difference in sound quality in Serato DJ 1.8. We have removed the limiter and added a Master Volume knob for these devices, so the sound quality should be exactly the same as Scratch Live.

Also for all controllers which are software mixed, there is still a limiter in place, so when you increase the gain to a level where the audio signal will clip then the limiter will engage and you may notice a difference in audio quality.

One thing to note about DJ hardware is that not all soundcards are created equal, so one piece of hardware may sound better than another when running on the same software.

I hope this helps!

Cheers,
Michael.
Johnny H 10:49 PM - 19 October, 2015
well everyone has there own standards and expectation of sound quality, try some RME sound equipment! That will blow your socks away on what quality sound is all about

Re searto sound quality

It's not one individual track that sounds bad, that I can give you a link to, it's every track! when compared to listening to the same track in other media players, for some reason searto serato just doesn't sound as crisp and clear sounding as in other music players.

Now with the same lossless file every media player should really sound very close as long as there is no eq added, and this is true until I play the file in serato.

I'm ripping my DJ vinyl at pressent and thus the reason for the new RME sound card, truly can't believe the quality I'm getting from my old DJ vinyl it's amazing quality I am able to capture, also using a Cambridge Audio RIAA pre amp and SL1210 with Night Club II e Cartridge and sound forge 11 software.

So I know a little about quality and how things should sound, and sadly something is lacking in Serato, again here's hoping 1.8 has addressed this issues.
soul63 11:25 PM - 19 October, 2015
Well i dont think i will be investing in a 900 pound soundcard just to broadcast music on mixlr lol.i think most people that listen to me are tuned in via laptop or some mobile device.so using what i got now is sufficient but i appreciate others may be looking for a higher end sound than me..i still think mine is ok for what it is
Johnny H 11:42 PM - 19 October, 2015
Fully understand your view, but I haven't purchased this sound card to DJ with lol though it would not be the worst idea in the world ! Any system is as only as good as its weakest link.
This grade of card with its A/D & D/A would truly produce some very impressive results.
deejdave 12:10 AM - 20 October, 2015
It honestly sounds to me like the word standards is getting confused with priorities. I am not sure how many are denying the fact there is a difference. It just seems the vast majority are getting along fine as is.


djworx.com
Johnny H 12:35 AM - 20 October, 2015
Dave no one is saying you are wrong! and I think serato is a brilliant DJ package, would even go as far as to say the best I have used and I have used most of them.

But when my lossless music sounds better in winamp than serato something is not quite right.

If serato has the software engineers / programming power to make such good DJ software, for the life of me I can't work out why they would have overlooked the sound quality! just does not make sense with today's quality expectations, codecs, and high end hardware.

I have always found having the best crisp clean sound quality when DJing warms people to the dance floor, I'm sure they don't even realize or are even aware of the sound quality! but... play a lifeless, dull sounding track and watch them disappear off the floor.

there is nothing better than a great sound system when DJing....

There is really no reason why we should be even having this conversation, searto software is quality software through and through, just a real shame the sound quality is not as it should be,

Some DJ's will never understand and thus be happy with the sound, other DJ's will know things aren't quite right, but accept it. Finally the other DJs expectation will be high and won't be happy until the sound is at least as good as other windows / mac music players.

The is nothing wrong with people's expectations being high, that's how progress is made and why we all enjoy such high quality and standards today that we all take for granted.
dj Krazey leo 12:59 AM - 20 October, 2015
Well said @ Johnny H.
Big Pops 2:08 AM - 20 October, 2015
@ Johnny H. I quite agree with you,

I have been saying a long time now that Scratch Live has a commanding sound which Serato DJ just don't have. Serato DJ is a good software but Serato needs to spend some time and do some research why the sound is just not crisp and clean.
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 2:11 AM - 20 October, 2015
Hey guys,

Just jumping back in here as it looks like my post may have been overlooked ;)

Quote:
If you are using Rane hardware, you should definitely notice a difference in sound quality in Serato DJ 1.8. We have removed the limiter and added a Master Volume knob for these devices, so the sound quality should be exactly the same as Scratch Live.

Also for all controllers which are software mixed, there is still a limiter in place, so when you increase the gain to a level where the audio signal will clip then the limiter will engage and you may notice a difference in audio quality.

One thing to note about DJ hardware is that not all soundcards are created equal, so one piece of hardware may sound better than another when running on the same software.

Cheers,
Michael.
Dj Ace 2:38 AM - 20 October, 2015
Pioneer sound quality has never been in the same league as RANE. Also how do you expect a sub 1000 dollar all in one controller to be as good as a 2000.00 mixer? You get what you pay for
Big Pops 5:22 AM - 20 October, 2015
@ Michael R we fully understand what the difference in 1.8 would be, but that does not change what most users are saying that SSL sounds more crisp and clearer than SDJ.
LJ_WOOLSEY 6:33 AM - 20 October, 2015
Still no proof of all these arguments 😂 And as said 1.8 should now sound the same as SSL but you still moaning 😂
Now magically SSL sounds crap 😂
You guys are killing me 😂😭😭
watchman 6:51 AM - 20 October, 2015
try using 1.8 with a graphic equaliser on "send return" of your mixer, think you'll be happy.

Quote:
I love searto and I'm still very new only a few months in but from day one of using it I have never been happy with sound quality. It's alway sounded dull, lacking crispness and detail, that aside everything else is great.

I have had issues with the sound quality on both serato pc and serato on my MBP and sx2.

I have even purchased an RME sound card ucx £900 BEST quality sound card I have ever heard and still have dull sound from serato. Every other media player package sound great.

It all very well people saying its all subjective and every person idea of sound is different bla bla bla.

But the same lossless file should sound the same quality within reason across many different pc or mac music players.

Sony sound forge, Winamp, music be, etc and they all do sound the same until I play the same lossless music file in serato! And its lacking stereo definition, it sounds dull and slightly lifeless in comparison to hearing the file in sound forge!

I'm not making this up it real ! And the new RME sound card which is truly the boll****s shows this up even more.

So this is truly music to my ears hearing that at long last the sound quality of serato has been addressed, can't wait to hear 1.8

Serato truly can be the best DJ software if they sort out the presstine audio sound quality that I so long for.

Here's hoping.......
Jzzen 7:26 AM - 20 October, 2015
I would agree.

I have also just moved to Serato after using pcdj for nearly 10 years.
I know Serato seems to be the industry standard and has left pcdj way behind, I have noticed a drop in sound quality.
I wasn't sure if it was down to Akai AMX controller which cost only £150, maybe I need to try it with SLive.

This was one reason why I stay far away from pioneer mixers.
Again industry standard but sounds harsh.
I feel that I've been sucker punched by Serato Dj which I have committed to in a big way yet, seems to still have a few other issues ongoing.

Come on Serato Team.
Do the right thing and Fixup!!
Jzzen 7:30 AM - 20 October, 2015
Quote:
Pioneer sound quality has never been in the same league as RANE. Also how do you expect a sub 1000 dollar all in one controller to be as good as a 2000.00 mixer? You get what you pay for



A formula sound fsm600 or a allen & Heath xone 62 sounds a lot better than all of the pioneer range of mixers I've heard, regardless of price.
soul63 8:21 AM - 20 October, 2015
There was a thread where a test was conducted comparing ssl & sdj.the conclusion was ssl sounded a bit different to sdj,and possibly the quality was slightly better.the test didnt prove sdj sound quality was as bad as some are stating.granted the test was not conducted in lab conditions..but nor is playing music out.
WarpNote 10:07 AM - 20 October, 2015
Quote:
@ Michael R we fully understand what the difference in 1.8 would be, but that does not change what most users are saying that SSL sounds more crisp and clearer than SDJ.
Those users have not tried 1.8....
Johnny H 10:45 AM - 20 October, 2015
Quote:
Still no proof of all these arguments 😂 And as said 1.8 should now sound the same as SSL but you still moaning 😂
Now magically SSL sounds crap 😂
You guys are killing me 😂😭😭


LJ-WOOLSEY

Who sad ssl sounds crap ????

There's loads of proof! of these arguments, just do an A/B test between any media good player (Sony sound forge) and serato, simples !

You can hear the difference right away,
If you can not then your ears are damaged or full of wax, or your sound system is crap

Oh re other post I have repaired and serviced Many formula sound mixers they are very well built and high quality mixers
LJ_WOOLSEY 11:20 AM - 20 October, 2015
You just said it sounds crap.
Johnny H 12:03 PM - 20 October, 2015
No I never said it sounds crap,

I may have said serato dj is dull sounding, lacking dynamics and crispness

All of the above is true when A/B testing against other media players and serato DJ software.

Who mentioned anything about serato ssl ????

I didn't ..... From what I hear everyone raves about it, though I can't comment. In future please be factual on your comments!

I never said serato ssl sounds crap!

Now some of the posts are killing me too lol
LJ_WOOLSEY 12:58 PM - 20 October, 2015
And sdj now is same as ssl so all should be fine no? I mean serato have even posted twice stating that. So if sdj still sounds not how you want it to sound nore would ssl.
dibb 2:18 PM - 20 October, 2015
Quote:
well everyone has there own standards and expectation of sound quality, try some RME sound equipment! That will blow your socks away on what quality sound is all about


Have you ever heard the Rane MP2015? It has Audio 4 Pro delta-sigma modulator converters by AKM. These are said to be as good as the converters RME uses.

I have once tested the MP2015 (next to a DJM900) and I was blown away by it's sound quality. OK, I didn't have SDJ as a source since it wasn't supported at the time, but maybe as of SDJ 1.8 (reading Michael R's post) this might be the mixer for you.

You should give it a try..
Daniel Ventura 6:31 PM - 20 October, 2015
it's all about the d/a conversion of your Hardware AND the Quality of your source material i often play on a djm 900 (with it's internal soundcard or cdjs hooked on spdif ins) with an external rme adi 2 dac afterwards - THIS is soundquality :-)
Mr. Goodkat 7:56 PM - 20 October, 2015
Quote:
it's all about the d/a conversion of your Hardware AND the Quality of your source material i often play on a djm 900 (with it's internal soundcard or cdjs hooked on spdif ins) with an external rme adi 2 dac afterwards - THIS is soundquality :-)


this.

but,

so many people have to play shitty files from record pools that have been mp3'ed to mp3'ed re-edited that Pioneer sounds harsh.

record pools are the single biggest problem in the chain of sound quality.
dibb 8:19 PM - 20 October, 2015
I always run edits I get from other people trough this simple and free spectrum analyzer: spek.cc

You would be amazed how many "320 kbps" tracks have their frequencies cut off at 16 Khz, so are actually 128 kbps re-encoded tracks.

Obviously you can hear that difference quite easily, but it's always nice to see it as well.. :)
watchman 9:42 PM - 20 October, 2015
Useful tool, thanks.
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 9:49 PM - 20 October, 2015
Quote:
@ Michael R we fully understand what the difference in 1.8 would be, but that does not change what most users are saying that SSL sounds more crisp and clearer than SDJ.


Quote:
Come on Serato Team.
Do the right thing and Fixup!!

Sorry guys if I'm reading things wrong here, but a couple of you keep saying "you need to fix the sound quality in Serato DJ so it is the same as Scratch Live" and I'm letting you know that we've done that :)

If you want to test for yourself, please try the public beta of 1.8.
DJ ManTron 11:42 PM - 20 October, 2015
sound quality has more to do with d/a coverter in your mixer and usb codec than the software.
Johnny H 1:10 AM - 21 October, 2015
Ripping my vinyl right now with this new RME sound Card and Can't believe the quality I am achieving, It is truly mind blowing to hear the detail and stereo separation.

Never knew I could capture such detail from my beloved tunes, I am getting better results than most CD's I own, seriously ......

What a sound card RME UCX is. period......

Oh I have maxed out the setting, Ripping Vinyl at 192k @ 24bit it make a huge different on a high end setup.
Johnny H 1:21 AM - 21 October, 2015
Oh a big thank you to Serato for correcting the sound quality, I will try the beta out and look forward to the final release.

Really look forward to hearing serato as should sound,

Well done Serato,
maarawoe 8:38 AM - 21 October, 2015
Thanks for fixing up! Was using 1.8 during my last gig and it sounded very nice! (Hope it was not just a placebo effect caused by the master volume knob :-DD )
Dj Ace 7:08 PM - 21 October, 2015
Yeah it s a huge difference using my 62! Thanks serato
DJSCIASCIA 10:20 PM - 21 October, 2015
Anyone try it on a Pioneer 900SRT? I won't be able to for a few days. I'm curious.
deejdave 11:06 PM - 21 October, 2015
You mean that mixer that JUST got discontinued two days ago? Yeah more great news..............


djtechtools.com
WarpNote 11:20 PM - 21 October, 2015
Quote:
You mean that mixer that JUST got discontinued two days ago? Yeah more great news..............


djtechtools.com

There it is, the S9 takeover. I'm holding on to my 900SRT though ..
Dokumentary 12:46 AM - 22 October, 2015
Quote:
Hey guys,

Just jumping back in here as it looks like my post may have been overlooked ;)

Quote:
If you are using Rane hardware, you should definitely notice a difference in sound quality in Serato DJ 1.8. We have removed the limiter and added a Master Volume knob for these devices, so the sound quality should be exactly the same as Scratch Live.

Also for all controllers which are software mixed, there is still a limiter in place, so when you increase the gain to a level where the audio signal will clip then the limiter will engage and you may notice a difference in audio quality.

One thing to note about DJ hardware is that not all soundcards are created equal, so one piece of hardware may sound better than another when running on the same software.

Cheers,
Michael.

So the only thing effecting sound quality between SSL and SDJ was the limiter?

This is great news.

Can you give us some info about the way the limiter acts to "color" the sound when active? Is this something that can be tweaked for the controller users? Also, is there anything that needs to be done with Rane devices? volume? firmware?

I can't wait to test with my SL4!
DJSCIASCIA 1:37 AM - 22 October, 2015
Quote:
You mean that mixer that JUST got discontinued two days ago? Yeah more great news..............


djtechtools.com


Oh damn. That was a quick run for this mixer. Like WarpNote said, I too plan on keeping this mixer. I haven't used it for serato in a long time but if the sound quality has improved I might just start using it again.
deejdave 2:07 AM - 22 October, 2015
Yeah. Assuming firmware updates are being provided by some good Samaritan software developer we will be fine with the future operating systems too.
Niro 4:53 AM - 22 October, 2015
Is the limiter turned off permantly after installing 1.8 and can be used with 1.7.8 (wishful thinking) just can't use beta on your right now. Thanks
watchman 6:38 AM - 22 October, 2015
Quote:
Anyone try it on a Pioneer 900SRT? I won't be able to for a few days. I'm curious.

I'm using Pioneer 900SRT and 1.8 sounds much better than 1.7.8 did and I'm not using Rane hardware.
Serato
Nathan.H 6:55 AM - 22 October, 2015
Michael wasn't 100% correct: this change applies to all dvs hardware including all Rane devices and the Pioneer 900 SRT, Nexus and all club kit mixers
watchman 6:57 AM - 22 October, 2015
Brilliant, was just going to ask.
dibb 6:59 AM - 22 October, 2015
Does the AMX counts as DVS hardware as well?
dibb 7:23 AM - 22 October, 2015
Quote:
Michael wasn't 100% correct: this change applies to all dvs hardware including all Rane devices and the Pioneer 900 SRT, Nexus and all club kit mixers


In the context of the limiter change, it probably doesn't, since it's a software mixed controller that happens to be DVS ready.

So the change applies to all DVS hardware which are not software mixed, right?
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 12:10 AM - 23 October, 2015
Quote:
So the change applies to all DVS hardware which are not software mixed, right?

Correct, apologies for the mistake. I was using the Rane hardware as my example as they work in both Scratch Live and Serato DJ, which is what the comparisons were being made against.

Quote:
Is the limiter turned off permantly after installing 1.8 and can be used with 1.7.8 (wishful thinking) just can't use beta on your right now.

Wishful thinking I'm afraid ;) The limiter is enabled in 1.7.8 and disabled in 1.8.

Quote:
Is this something that can be tweaked for the controller users?

I'm afraid not sorry.

Quote:
Also, is there anything that needs to be done with Rane devices? volume? firmware?

Nope, it's just changes in software :) The only thing to note is that you now have a master volume knob which you can adjust yourself rather than having the limiter.
Niro 5:31 AM - 23 October, 2015
I keep the auto gain at 92db and it seems fine, will having it lower like around 90db keep the limiter from being activated. I'm using a 62, thanks.
dj lashes 2:58 PM - 23 October, 2015
at what DB does the limiter turn on?
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 1:43 AM - 27 October, 2015
Quote:
at what DB does the limiter turn on?

I asked around our development team and here's the answer:
Quote:
0dB full-scale. On a controller we apply -3dB for mix headroom so if there’s just one channel playing the limiter will kick in when the channel reaches +3dB. Those three yellow segments on the Master Output Meter are worth 1dB each.
dj lashes 6:42 AM - 27 October, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
at what DB does the limiter turn on?

I asked around our development team and here's the answer:
Quote:
0dB full-scale. On a controller we apply -3dB for mix headroom so if there’s just one channel playing the limiter will kick in when the channel reaches +3dB. Those three yellow segments on the Master Output Meter are worth 1dB each.


thanks for your great help and time to look into it.. also nice one to the development team for thinking about the headroom for mixing,... could you find out if the sampler also runs to the limiter.. hope am not asking for to much lol
Niro 11:36 AM - 27 October, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
at what DB does the limiter turn on?

I asked around our development team and here's the answer:
Quote:
0dB full-scale. On a controller we apply -3dB for mix headroom so if there’s just one channel playing the limiter will kick in when the channel reaches +3dB. Those three yellow segments on the Master Output Meter are worth 1dB each.


Does this same equation apply to Rane mixers like the 62? Thanks
WarpNote 6:50 PM - 27 October, 2015
No limiter for the 62 in 1.8 niro, assume the equation is the same as for other hardware (ie sl 2/3/4) in 1.7.8.
Mr. Goodkat 8:10 PM - 27 October, 2015
only thing i can tell is that all of my tracks are super loud unless they are mastered in that 80s/90s way.

i noticed that with sdj more than ssl. unless you turn the auto gain on in sdj(which to me sounds too limiter-y to me and takes away from the bass) seems like tracks are all over the place from loud to super loud even at zero. ssl and rekordbox sound better to my ears.
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 9:26 PM - 27 October, 2015
Quote:
could you find out if the sampler also runs to the limiter.

Yes it does.

Quote:
No limiter for the 62 in 1.8 niro, assume the equation is the same as for other hardware (ie sl 2/3/4) in 1.7.8.

This is correct :)

Quote:
i noticed that with sdj more than ssl. unless you turn the auto gain on in sdj(which to me sounds too limiter-y to me and takes away from the bass) seems like tracks are all over the place from loud to super loud even at zero. ssl and rekordbox sound better to my ears.

Which hardware are you using? If you're using DVS hardware then you'll find that Serato DJ sounds the same as Scratch Live in 1.8.
Mr. Goodkat 10:36 PM - 27 October, 2015
so you are saying its the exact same sound engine(or whatever you would call it in code, im a tech neanderthal) as ssl? seems that would be the only way to 'sound the same as scratch live in 1.8.'
DJ Tecniq 1:49 PM - 7 November, 2015
I agree with everyone pretty much in this entire thread. I as of now am no longer using SDJ. I used 1.8 lastnight and like everyone else says the sound quality is just not up to par with Scratchlive. Bass was very muddy sounding and hardly had any punch or clarity. Something was just off. I loaded up Scratchlive and the sound was a world of difference. It sounds more punchy and full. I felt my scratches just sounded more clearer. This was all tested on my QSC system using the same songs. And no I was not clipping in SDJ cause thank god they finally added a master volume for the SL 2's and above. I don't know what's going on but I refuse to use it as of this point. It makes sense cause SDJ first started out for controllers only and every controller I've heard in SDJ does not compare to SSL's sound quality. Has nothing to do with the drivers I have an SL3 and compared both programs. Please fix this!!!!
DJ Tecniq 1:51 PM - 7 November, 2015
To back up my statement I will be recording a video using both programs with the same song on my system. You will hear a difference I guarantee it.
LJ_WOOLSEY 2:07 PM - 7 November, 2015
Users have given the opposite feedback that 1.8.0 sounds much better than other versions of Serato DJ.

But for sure post up anything proving your statement.
DJ Tecniq 2:08 PM - 7 November, 2015
Quote:
Which hardware are you using? If you're using DVS hardware then you'll find that Serato DJ sounds the same as Scratch Live in 1.8.
I completely disagree. I am used to Scratchlive's punchier sound and clarity. SDJ definetly did not have that lastnight. It was easily noticeable for me. I thighs it was maybe my sub or equipment till I loaded up Scratchlive and blew out SDJ's sound quality. The developers have to look into this.
dj lashes 3:04 PM - 7 November, 2015
Quote:
Users have given the opposite feedback that 1.8.0 sounds much better than other versions of Serato DJ.

But for sure post up anything proving your statement.

yes your right 1.8.0 sounds better then the last few SDJ which seem to of had REALLY bad sound BUT i have not seen anyone say SDJ sounds better than Scratch Live which i think is the point dj Tecniq is saying
dj lashes 3:10 PM - 7 November, 2015
if we mark it out of 10 ...1 lowest 10 highest

last few SDJ = 6
SDJ 1.8.0 = 7
Scratch Live = 10
DJ Tecniq 3:13 PM - 7 November, 2015
I am actually surprised more dj's haven't come forward. I ask you please do a test yourself with a Rane box you will hear a difference. Scratchlive has a more "pristine" sound. My sub sounded like garbage lastnight it was so incredibly noticeable. And I'm really not trying to hate on SDJ it's just the sound that "I'm used to" is not there anymore. Please look into this. I will post up the results after this weekend and do a complete live sound test using my system. I'm sticking with SSL for now.
DJ Tecniq 3:16 PM - 7 November, 2015
And another note I had songs clipping like crazy with SDJ's recommended gain settings. My master volume in SDJ was so low just so I wouldn't clip. Scratchlive never came close. Something needs to be looked into. Thank you!
dj lashes 3:22 PM - 7 November, 2015
Quote:
I am actually surprised more dj's haven't come forward.

people have and i guess team serato have been on the case like i said SDJ 1.8 sounds better the other SDJ earlier versions... but just not up to SL

Quote:
Scratchlive has a more "pristine" sound

no one can say no to that ...lol

Quote:
And another note I had songs clipping like crazy with SDJ's recommended gain settings. My master volume in SDJ was so low just so I wouldn't clip

for me i feel like the gain is sensitive ...
DJ Tecniq 3:31 PM - 7 November, 2015
I have no idea what is going on. I can't believe users are using "$1500-"$2000" mixers and getting this sound. It is terrible compared to SSL. How this has been overlooked is shocking. I really hope SDJ 2.0 sound quality improves. I like it but the sound I'm used to is gone...
&Midge 4:03 PM - 7 November, 2015
Quote:
And another note I had songs clipping like crazy with SDJ's recommended gain settings. My master volume in SDJ was so low just so I wouldn't clip. Scratchlive never came close. Something needs to be looked into. Thank you!


are you using PnT in SDJ?
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:36 PM - 7 November, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Users have given the opposite feedback that 1.8.0 sounds much better than other versions of Serato DJ.

But for sure post up anything proving your statement.

yes your right 1.8.0 sounds better then the last few SDJ which seem to of had REALLY bad sound BUT i have not seen anyone say SDJ sounds better than Scratch Live which i think is the point dj Tecniq is saying

Ok but where has anyone on here said 1.8.0 sounds worse then ssl? Only see. Dj Techip so fare.

I don't own any ssl only hardware anymore so I can't test but look foward to your uploads showing the difference. Sure would be annoying if you had to suffer lower sound quality.
DJ Tecniq 5:12 PM - 7 November, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
And another note I had songs clipping like crazy with SDJ's recommended gain settings. My master volume in SDJ was so low just so I wouldn't clip. Scratchlive never came close. Something needs to be looked into. Thank you!


are you using PnT in SDJ?
Nope do not even have PNT and that's scary.
DJ Tecniq 6:29 PM - 7 November, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Users have given the opposite feedback that 1.8.0 sounds much better than other versions of Serato DJ.

But for sure post up anything proving your statement.

yes your right 1.8.0 sounds better then the last few SDJ which seem to of had REALLY bad sound BUT i have not seen anyone say SDJ sounds better than Scratch Live which i think is the point dj Tecniq is saying

Ok but where has anyone on here said 1.8.0 sounds worse then ssl? Only see. Dj Techip so fare.

I don't own any ssl only hardware anymore so I can't test but look foward to your uploads showing the difference. Sure would be annoying if you had to suffer lower sound quality.
I would honestly rate the sound quality a 5 with SDJ and Scratchlive a 10. Maybe it has to do with auto gain cause there's not a huge improvement with auto off or on. The audio def does not sound like 24 bit audio. Maybe I'll look into my settings. I just go by what my ears tell me and I honestly thought my sub was damaged. The bass just sounded so much more "rich and full"the kicks and hi hats were just clear. SDJ sounds completely different and not in a good way. Keep in mind SDJ started out for controllers first then came DVS💯
Mr. Goodkat 9:18 PM - 7 November, 2015
what mixer are u using techniq?

i think sdj is pretty close to ssl.


what im getting is

the channels are extremely hot and almost any new tracks need to be turned down

normally, i would use the autogain but the autogain sounds bad. i have been able to test that in a big room on a big system (pretty good EAW system, 8 3 way -15 speaks with 2 2x15 subs flown and 2 kw181 subs on the ground) and i switched back and forth with auto gain on 92-93 and there is a difference.

PNT has some influence, but im cool ok with it.

while SSL sounds good without pitchshift but awful with it on. i was watching the redbull world 3 style and it was so bad i wondereed how anyone ever used it.

surely there has to be a way to keep the files from starting so hot. id rather turn up than turn down, because its sounds much worse coming out hot and distorted.

and last thing

has anyone noticed that some older files come up completely turned all the way up?

i've had more than a few older files come out this way.
DJ Tecniq 1:03 PM - 8 November, 2015
I'm using a Pioneer DJM 700 which still sounds great. SDJ's sound is way too loud I thought. With the normal settings I had almost all my songs clipping. This is why I couldn't stand SDJ it had no master gain for the Rane boxes till finally 1.8 was released. When I say my master gain was turned almost all the way down so the songs wouldn't clip is an understatement. I'll take a screenshot next time.
Frankie Glasses 8:16 PM - 9 November, 2015
Quote:


normally, i would use the autogain but the autogain sounds bad. i have been able to test that in a big room on a big system (pretty good EAW system, 8 3 way -15 speaks with 2 2x15 subs flown and 2 kw181 subs on the ground) and i switched back and forth with auto gain on 92-93 and there is a difference.



Just to make sure, you are saying files analyzed without AUTOGAIN sound betterthan the ones with?
kbscholar 9:23 PM - 9 November, 2015
Since my switch from SSL 2.5 to SDJ 1.8, I have not noticed any sound quality reduction. I think 1.8 sounds great. However, I think that you need to do a slight tweak to the settings in SDJ 1.8. I use auto gain, but what I had found was that if you set auto gain to 92 or 93 dB, the program will cause clipping in the tracks. I have found that setting auto gain to the lowest allowable dB (I can't recall right now 86 or 89 dB), the sound will come out of SDJ clear. Make your proper gain adjustments at the mixer.

Once you clip a digital signal, it will never sound good on the system.
&Midge 9:25 PM - 9 November, 2015
yup, have been set to 89dB too
&Midge 9:25 PM - 9 November, 2015
default has always been way too loud
DJ Tecniq 2:17 AM - 10 November, 2015
Will be doing the test this week. And as for the default setting set to high is true cause I got clipping with every song and my system was barely even up.
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 2:27 AM - 10 November, 2015
Hi all,

Just to clarify, for those using DVS devices (e.g. the Rane SL2, Sixty-Two etc.) the sound quality of Serato DJ 1.8 and Scratch Live should be exactly the same. If you are experiencing a noticeable difference then check your setting such as auto gain, master volume etc.

Cheers,
Michael.
&Midge 8:19 AM - 10 November, 2015
sample rates would be a good one to check too
Johnny H 11:34 AM - 10 November, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Users have given the opposite feedback that 1.8.0 sounds much better than other versions of Serato DJ.

But for sure post up anything proving your statement.

yes your right 1.8.0 sounds better then the last few SDJ which seem to of had REALLY bad sound BUT i have not seen anyone say SDJ sounds better than Scratch Live which i think is the point dj Tecniq is saying

Ok but where has anyone on here said 1.8.0 sounds worse then ssl? Only see. Dj Techip so fare.

I don't own any ssl only hardware anymore so I can't test but look foward to your uploads showing the difference. Sure would be annoying if you had to suffer lower sound quality.
I would honestly rate the sound quality a 5 with SDJ and Scratchlive a 10. Maybe it has to do with auto gain cause there's not a huge improvement with auto off or on. The audio def does not sound like 24 bit audio. Maybe I'll look into my settings. I just go by what my ears tell me and I honestly thought my sub was damaged. The bass just sounded so much more "rich and full"the kicks and hi hats were just clear. SDJ sounds completely different and not in a good way. Keep in mind SDJ started out for controllers first then came DVS💯




Agree 100%
Johnny H 11:37 AM - 10 November, 2015
but poor sound quality could be down to Pioneer SX2, I don't rate at all.....
soul63 11:46 AM - 10 November, 2015
Rating sdj 5 ssl 10....so the sound quality in ssl is twice as good as sdj..surely that cant be right?..i'm curious as i've never used ssl..is somebody going to post a comparison..
LJ_WOOLSEY 11:49 AM - 10 November, 2015
Quote:
Rating sdj 5 ssl 10....so the sound quality in ssl is twice as good as sdj..surely that cant be right?..i'm curious as i've never used ssl..is somebody going to post a comparison..


Nope it is not that much worse, and no throughout all of this not a single person has shown any proof. Just all talk.

I'm still waiting aswel......
DJ Tecniq 12:19 PM - 10 November, 2015
I will be testing this. I'm gonna try to get to it today. I will do a live sound comparison with video footage so that you can see and hear a difference in the two. It is very noticeable on a mobile system. Everything sounded flat and not "rich" like SSL does. If I could hear a difference in my sub then they are not identical sound.
DJ Tecniq 12:20 PM - 10 November, 2015
I meant everything sounds flat and not "rich" when compared to SSL there is a huge difference in overall ouput quality.
DJ Tecniq 12:26 PM - 10 November, 2015
And keep in mind I am using an SL3 and could def hear a difference in the two. I am not sure about controllers. I just got a completely different sound then what I'm used to. I don't think any controller sounds good with SDJ anyways. Whatever this limiter they speak of they should of left it out. Scratchlive never had one and it sounds so "pristine" My SL3 did not sound like HD audio with SDJ and it's not my device considering SSL has such a better sound.
&Midge 12:47 PM - 10 November, 2015
Tecniq, when you make your video, ensure you including your settings for SDJ and SSL. Open the Rane control panel to please.
DJ Tecniq 1:53 PM - 10 November, 2015
Quote:
Tecniq, when you make your video, ensure you including your settings for SDJ and SSL. Open the Rane control panel to please.
Will do. So i just did a test in offline mode with both programs open and I couldn't hear much of a difference however the volume level indicator is far too sensitive in SDJ. The same songs I played in Scratchlive were nowhere near clipping...However in SDJ I was hitting red levels with volume indicator but didn't "sound" like it was clipping if that makes sense. I am not using auto gain on either program and both are at 92 db recommended setting. What i dislike about SDJ there is no master gain in offline like Scratchlive has...why they got rid of this and is only for hardware I have no idea.
DJ Tecniq 1:59 PM - 10 November, 2015
From my understanding if the volume indicator in SDJ is hitting "red" levels this would indicate I'm clipping correct? Or the output is being pushed too hard from a visual perspective. However it doesn't sound or seem distorted it just displays this way? Then this is not an accurate reading?
DJ Tecniq 2:07 PM - 10 November, 2015
The real test will be what it sounds like with my equipment set up. The actual output quality from the system. But yes the track output level meter is super sensitive in SDJ. If it displays I'm clipping but the sound necessarily isn't this could be deceiving toward whoever is playing the music.
DJ Tecniq 2:10 PM - 10 November, 2015
I have also noticed when using the lowest 89 db setting there is no change in the volume indicator it still displays as if I'm clipping audio. Test this yourselves and see.
LJ_WOOLSEY 2:33 PM - 10 November, 2015
Use the VU meter on your mixer to match the volume levels between ssl and sdj ignor the VU meters in sdj gui
DJ Tecniq 2:38 PM - 10 November, 2015
Quote:
Use the VU meter on your mixer to match the volume levels between ssl and sdj ignor the VU meters in sdj gui
But why couldn't they work on this? SDJ has been like this for awhile with the track output level meter. If my mixer is saying I'm not bleeding/clipping sdj should be displaying the same result. This is why master level in SSL is convenient I can keep all my tracks just below clipping with master level/gain. SDJ has finally brought this to 1.8 for hardware devices. I think it was already was already available for controllers. Why not add it for all hardware..why did it take so long to be featured in 1.8 for rane boxes...
LJ_WOOLSEY 2:39 PM - 10 November, 2015
Basically set your gains on your mixer then use the master and auto gain settings to see if you can get to the same level as ssl. Maybe you found a bug with sdj VU levels. So this test your could show the audio level is changing but the gui VU leds stay the same.
WarpNote 3:10 PM - 10 November, 2015
Quote:
I am not using auto gain on either program and both are at 92 db recommended setting.

@Tecniq: This sentence makes me think that you might have missed how autogain works. the 92 db setting will have no effect if you don't use auto gain. Also you will need to reanalyse the files that you want to compare with auto gain checked before doing your comparison. To me it seems as there is something weird going on in your software gain structure.

I did some comparison right now. SSL2.5 vs SDJ 1.8.0 using a Rane 62. Autogain @ 89db in both programs, pitch at 0%, keylock off. I thought maybe SSL was ever so slightly louder than SDJ, and maybe a little softer on the higher transients?
Most people tends to think the sound is better when louder....

However this could absolutely been a placebo, and I thought both sounded very nice indeed. This was on smaller lower end monitors (KRK Rokit 5), but I did play a nice loud system with loads of bass this weekend, really clear at all volumes...

Also, I'm not here to bash you Tecniq, just wanted to share some info and opinion. I also have the DJM900SRT, and always felt the SDJsound was up to the quality of SDJ when playing that mixer or using the 900nxs club kit at clubs...

Just my 2 (euro)cents...
PopRoXxX 5:56 PM - 10 November, 2015
Quote:
Hi all,

Just to clarify, for those using DVS devices (e.g. the Rane SL2, Sixty-Two etc.) the sound quality of Serato DJ 1.8 and Scratch Live should be exactly the same. If you are experiencing a noticeable difference then check your setting such as auto gain, master volume etc.

Cheers,
Michael.
DJ Tecniq 7:08 PM - 10 November, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
I am not using auto gain on either program and both are at 92 db recommended setting.

@Tecniq: This sentence makes me think that you might have missed how autogain works. the 92 db setting will have no effect if you don't use auto gain. Also you will need to reanalyse the files that you want to compare with auto gain checked before doing your comparison. To me it seems as there is something weird going on in your software gain structure.

I did some comparison right now. SSL2.5 vs SDJ 1.8.0 using a Rane 62. Autogain @ 89db in both programs, pitch at 0%, keylock off. I thought maybe SSL was ever so slightly louder than SDJ, and maybe a little softer on the higher transients?
Most people tends to think the sound is better when louder....

However this could absolutely been a placebo, and I thought both sounded very nice indeed. This was on smaller lower end monitors (KRK Rokit 5), but I did play a nice loud system with loads of bass this weekend, really clear at all volumes...

Also, I'm not here to bash you Tecniq, just wanted to share some info and opinion. I also have the DJM900SRT, and always felt the SDJsound was up to the quality of SDJ when playing that mixer or using the 900nxs club kit at clubs...

Just my 2 (euro)cents...
All of my files have been analyzed in sdj already. What is also odd is the key i don't think it's accurate. Almost all my keys have the letter M like 6M, 7M, 8M, 9M, 10M, 11M, 12M. Is this right key info?
PopRoXxX 7:12 PM - 10 November, 2015
Setup menu ......
kbscholar 7:42 PM - 10 November, 2015
Quote:
What is also odd is the key i don't think it's accurate. Almost all my keys have the letter M like 6M, 7M, 8M, 9M, 10M, 11M, 12M. Is this right key info?


Are you sure they are reading 6M? That is a cross b/w the standard musical key and the Camelot Key. 6M should be 6B, also known as B b (B-Flat Major).
PopRoXxX 8:01 PM - 10 November, 2015
I think he is referring to the Open Key format possibly
DJ Tecniq 9:30 PM - 10 November, 2015
Quote:
I think he is referring to the Open Key format possibly
I don't know guys i'll have to check i just started using sdj. I have been with Scratchlive for a long time cause of it's low cpu. Finally 1.8 doesn't use as much now. Trying to get comfortable with all of this.
DJ Tecniq 9:32 PM - 10 November, 2015
Got it. I didn't know i could change the key format. I am now using camelot and they are displaying like they should. But this really should of been the "default" setting in the first place. It was like this when i started using it.
DJ Tecniq 9:34 PM - 10 November, 2015
Also I have analyzed my entire library and the majority of songs have key info but some are just blank and have no key info. Not sure why
kbscholar 9:55 PM - 10 November, 2015
Quote:
Also I have analyzed my entire library and the majority of songs have key info but some are just blank and have no key info. Not sure why


Either you need to rescan your id3 tags, or some songs cannot be analysed for some reason.
Smoke21 10:44 PM - 10 November, 2015
Quote:
Since my switch from SSL 2.5 to SDJ 1.8, I have not noticed any sound quality reduction. I think 1.8 sounds great. However, I think that you need to do a slight tweak to the settings in SDJ 1.8. I use auto gain, but what I had found was that if you set auto gain to 92 or 93 dB, the program will cause clipping in the tracks. I have found that setting auto gain to the lowest allowable dB (I can't recall right now 86 or 89 dB), the sound will come out of SDJ clear. Make your proper gain adjustments at the mixer.

Once you clip a digital signal, it will never sound good on the system.

Hey so if i would like to change my gain from the default one that serato dj recommends, how would i do that to set it to 89db. What db would be ideal for serato dj?... I use the djm900nxs mixer... Thanks for any help.
kbscholar 10:56 PM - 10 November, 2015
In Setup, make sure you have Auto Gain set to 89dB, the lowest setting. Then you can do 2 things: analyse your entire library to switch all of your tracks to 89dB, or as you play a new track, Serato will analyse the track as it plays.

Also, make sure that the master gain in SDJ stays in the green, or maybe just touches the yellow. From there, do all of your master EQing at your 900nxs mixer. Be sure that you keep the channel levels on the 900 at +2 or +4, which is 2 or 3 into the yellow. NEVER, EVER, go into the red at any point of all the equipment, especially the gains out of Serato. Once a digital interface clips (i.e. Serato DJ, controller, etc.), the main sound will be crap.
DJ Tecniq 11:59 PM - 10 November, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Also I have analyzed my entire library and the majority of songs have key info but some are just blank and have no key info. Not sure why


Either you need to rescan your id3 tags, or some songs cannot be analysed for some reason.
Have done this most of the songs are from my vinyl collection that i ripped myself but no key tag information is being recognized.
Mr. Goodkat 12:00 AM - 11 November, 2015
havent we established that the red doesnt mean the same with pioneer mixers and digital mixers with limiters as it does with analog mixers?
DJ Tecniq 12:01 AM - 11 November, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Since my switch from SSL 2.5 to SDJ 1.8, I have not noticed any sound quality reduction. I think 1.8 sounds great. However, I think that you need to do a slight tweak to the settings in SDJ 1.8. I use auto gain, but what I had found was that if you set auto gain to 92 or 93 dB, the program will cause clipping in the tracks. I have found that setting auto gain to the lowest allowable dB (I can't recall right now 86 or 89 dB), the sound will come out of SDJ clear. Make your proper gain adjustments at the mixer.

Once you clip a digital signal, it will never sound good on the system.

Hey so if i would like to change my gain from the default one that serato dj recommends, how would i do that to set it to 89db. What db would be ideal for serato dj?... I use the djm900nxs mixer... Thanks for any help.
Guys this is the whole point of the issue...if I'm using the recommended gain setting but the levels are showing I'm clipping then something isn't right...
Mr. Goodkat 12:01 AM - 11 November, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also I have analyzed my entire library and the majority of songs have key info but some are just blank and have no key info. Not sure why


Either you need to rescan your id3 tags, or some songs cannot be analysed for some reason.
Have done this most of the songs are from my vinyl collection that i ripped myself but no key tag information is being recognized.


are all your mp3s tagged in id3?have you gone back thru and scanned the files in serato? not analyzed but scanned them as mp3's in the file drop down?
DJ Tecniq 12:04 AM - 11 November, 2015
Quote:
In Setup, make sure you have Auto Gain set to 89dB, the lowest setting. Then you can do 2 things: analyse your entire library to switch all of your tracks to 89dB, or as you play a new track, Serato will analyse the track as it plays.

Also, make sure that the master gain in SDJ stays in the green, or maybe just touches the yellow. From there, do all of your master EQing at your 900nxs mixer. Be sure that you keep the channel levels on the 900 at +2 or +4, which is 2 or 3 into the yellow. NEVER, EVER, go into the red at any point of all the equipment, especially the gains out of Serato. Once a digital interface clips (i.e. Serato DJ, controller, etc.), the main sound will be crap.
This was a problem i had when i first started the night with serato dj. I had to turn my master gain level almost all the way down to assure the level meters weren't clipping. It makes it difficult to determine if I'm actually clipping audio or not. Because these level meters are too sensitive.
DJ Tecniq 12:05 AM - 11 November, 2015
Quote:
havent we established that the red doesnt mean the same with pioneer mixers and digital mixers with limiters as it does with analog mixers?
I'm getting red levels in sdj this has nothing to do with the mixer.
DJ Tecniq 12:06 AM - 11 November, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also I have analyzed my entire library and the majority of songs have key info but some are just blank and have no key info. Not sure why


Either you need to rescan your id3 tags, or some songs cannot be analysed for some reason.
Have done this most of the songs are from my vinyl collection that i ripped myself but no key tag information is being recognized.


are all your mp3s tagged in id3?have you gone back thru and scanned the files in serato? not analyzed but scanned them as mp3's in the file drop down?
yes have rescanned id3 tags and relocate lost files. I am still seeing blank key fields...
DJ Tecniq 12:09 AM - 11 November, 2015
Here is a screen cap...Notice the key field is blank. I have also tried to reanalyze the crate it will not let me cause I apparently "analyzed all files" already.
www.dropbox.com
Mr. Goodkat 12:16 AM - 11 November, 2015
have you looked in 1.74 or ssl if they show up? have you tried to load the file and see if the key comes back in the column?

ive had all these issues with ssl and sdj.

i use the comments extensively and sometimes i have to write in itunes for sdj or ssl to see it. sometimes i have to load the track and then it comes on, sometimes i have to scan ids then it comes up to an old track then i delete that, rescan or load track and it comes up.

its happened in ssl and sdj.

i really dont think everything is every going to be perfect with this software because of the nature of new OS's dropping, new hardware and the various imperfections one machine can have over another.

before you say ssl was perfect, it was perfect for you, people still complain about certain things. SO its was great and we all used it to the extent that we knew it but it had issues as well.

but i do think it sounds slightly better as well. not as much as you guys, but the cherry on top of ssl is probably the sound, not a big difference, but who doesnt like cherries on top?
DJ Tecniq 12:19 AM - 11 November, 2015
It's working now and seems to be writing the tags..i had to drag the folder to the analyzed files area and it's working. Not too much of a big deal just odd I had to do that when my whole library claimed it was analyzed.
DJ Tecniq 12:20 AM - 11 November, 2015
It wouldn't work unless i dragged the crate to "analyze files". Normally I could just be in a crate's area and click "analyze files" and it would work.
kbscholar 12:45 AM - 11 November, 2015
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havent we established that the red doesnt mean the same with pioneer mixers and digital mixers with limiters as it does with analog mixers?
I'm getting red levels in sdj this has nothing to do with the mixer.


If you are getting red levels in SDJ, then your audio has no chance to sound good. Follow my instructions from above. Set Auto Gain to the lowest setting, then fine tune with the master gain. Also, activate the help function in SDJ (the "?") in the upper right. Hover over the master gain for instructions on how to turn up/down the master gain to a specific level with the CTRL+click & ALT+click combinations.

Hell, we could do a Skype video call, and I can get you squared away if need be.
DJ Tecniq 12:49 AM - 11 November, 2015
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havent we established that the red doesnt mean the same with pioneer mixers and digital mixers with limiters as it does with analog mixers?
I'm getting red levels in sdj this has nothing to do with the mixer.


If you are getting red levels in SDJ, then your audio has no chance to sound good. Follow my instructions from above. Set Auto Gain to the lowest setting, then fine tune with the master gain. Also, activate the help function in SDJ (the "?") in the upper right. Hover over the master gain for instructions on how to turn up/down the master gain to a specific level with the CTRL+click & ALT+click combinations.

Hell, we could do a Skype video call, and I can get you squared away if need be.
No it's not sounded distorted at all...the level meters are displaying it is but it is no different then scratchlive and ssl is not reaching red at all..far from it.
DJ Tecniq 12:50 AM - 11 November, 2015
Even after analyzing the folder again there's still quite a few that did not write key tags.
&Midge 7:37 AM - 11 November, 2015
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In Setup, make sure you have Auto Gain set to 89dB, the lowest setting. Then you can do 2 things: analyse your entire library to switch all of your tracks to 89dB, or as you play a new track, Serato will analyse the track as it plays.


You DONT need to analyze your entire library to change the Auto Gain settings.

1) All you need to do is change the db in the settings from the drop down.
2) Then uncheck 'Use Auto Gain' to disable auto gain
3) Then check 'Use Auto Gain' to enable auto gain

You have NEVER had to analyze your entire library to apply these setting not even in SSL
&Midge 7:39 AM - 11 November, 2015
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Even after analyzing the folder again there's still quite a few that did not write key tags.



Some software, if they are ensure of the key they will write a key that it could be (which is why you get all tracks tagged). SDJ is different. If it is not 100% sure, it doesn't right a key tag.
SG SOUNDS 1:18 PM - 11 November, 2015
Can someone explain to me why im only seeing the level meter in the upper right corner next to the master output when i use my ddj sx or akai amx but not seeing it when i use my rane 62?

Tried out sdj 1.8.0 with my rane 62 and yes it does sound a little better but still not a crisp as ssl...maybe ill try setting the db at 89 as posted above..
DJ Tecniq 11:42 PM - 11 November, 2015
It is true the master gain in sdj 1.8 does not even do anything? I don't have any equipment connecting just the SL3 and master gain is not lowering the volume? It should work just like Scratchlive did and at least keep my songs below clipping
DJ Tecniq 12:05 AM - 12 November, 2015
So basically master gain in 1.8 is useless? Why did they even add it in 1.8 for the race devices. I hope you all understand that master gain/output controls the gain of every track...so essentially auto gain is not really necessary cause master gain takes care of this so you don't clip your songs. The video is uploading so I can't wait till you see it. Must be a bug or something.
DJ Tecniq 12:06 AM - 12 November, 2015
rane* devices
DJ Tecniq 12:21 AM - 12 November, 2015
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Can someone explain to me why im only seeing the level meter in the upper right corner next to the master output when i use my ddj sx or akai amx but not seeing it when i use my rane 62?

Tried out sdj 1.8.0 with my rane 62 and yes it does sound a little better but still not a crisp as ssl...maybe ill try setting the db at 89 as posted above..
That's a good question it still boggles my mind because master output was only for controllers for some strange reason. They finally have it available in 1.8 for the Rane devices like SL2 or above. So I'm not sure why it is not available for your 62?
DJ Tecniq 1:00 AM - 12 November, 2015
Here's the video. This is why I don't like SDJ. If I use auto gain it still makes my tracks too low. I want them like Scratchlive normally has them with adjusting the master output level but it unfortunately doesn't even work in SDJ 1.8 for the SL3. Not sure about other hardware. This should of been resolved A LONG time ago...Whoever the developers were for Scratchlive I doubt they are in development with SDJ. Just saying. Here's the video
www.dropbox.com
DJ Tecniq 1:24 AM - 12 November, 2015
Even with auto gain on. The master output level changes nothing from the track output level meter. The track doesn't get lower or higher.
DJ Tecniq 1:31 AM - 12 November, 2015
Next test will be the sound test comparing the two softwares. Be on the lookout for it prob will get to it tomorrow.
soul63 3:44 AM - 12 November, 2015
Thats standard how the master output operates in sdj ?..i never go in the red live.because you just adjust the individual gain levels either via the software or by mapping the gains in 1.8.so bad sound quality shouldnt be an issue due to clipping..i'm not great on tech so may have missed something here
DJ Tecniq 4:34 AM - 12 November, 2015
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Thats standard how the master output operates in sdj ?..i never go in the red live.because you just adjust the individual gain levels either via the software or by mapping the gains in 1.8.so bad sound quality shouldnt be an issue due to clipping..i'm not great on tech so may have missed something here
Who the hell wants to adjust track gains with every track they play? This is why master output volume is beneficial in ssl cause it actually lowers track volume so essentially auto gain is not even needed. I explain this clearly in the video when i compare the two.
soul63 4:48 AM - 12 November, 2015
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Thats standard how the master output operates in sdj ?..i never go in the red live.because you just adjust the individual gain levels either via the software or by mapping the gains in 1.8.so bad sound quality shouldnt be an issue due to clipping..i'm not great on tech so may have missed something here
Who the hell wants to adjust track gains with every track they play? This is why master output volume is beneficial in ssl cause it actually lowers track volume so essentially auto gain is not even needed. I explain this clearly in the video when i compare the two.

eh?lol..master lowers overall volume,not individual track levels..if using auto gain then you wouldnt really need to adjust every track,but autogain is not perfect.i play neo soul and 70s and 80s..there can be a big difference in levels then.and auto gain dont fare well sometimes.hence manually adjusting track levels
DJ Tecniq 4:54 AM - 12 November, 2015
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Thats standard how the master output operates in sdj ?..i never go in the red live.because you just adjust the individual gain levels either via the software or by mapping the gains in 1.8.so bad sound quality shouldnt be an issue due to clipping..i'm not great on tech so may have missed something here
Who the hell wants to adjust track gains with every track they play? This is why master output volume is beneficial in ssl cause it actually lowers track volume so essentially auto gain is not even needed. I explain this clearly in the video when i compare the two.

eh?lol..master lowers overall volume,not individual track levels..if using auto gain then you wouldnt really need to adjust every track,but autogain is not perfect.i play neo soul and 70s and 80s..there can be a big difference in levels then.and auto gain dont fare well sometimes.hence manually adjusting track levels
You apparently haven't used Scratchlive cause that's how master output level works! I will show you proof in this video. Notice I'm using both the same tracks on each deck with no mixer connected just my SL3. It's not "Magic" Master Output Level is the "Master" level for all overall gain levels in Serato. Unfortunately it does not work in SDJ. Enjoy the vid lol www.dropbox.com
soul63 5:10 AM - 12 November, 2015
No i haven't used ssl..as i have said in this thread before..my post was really a reply to the clipping cause distortion..and to avoid that is to adjust the level so its not in the red before going live..thanks for the videos..i see what you mean with ssl master output i think.lol..but thats just the same as adjusting individual gains in sdj..in ssl you are just adjusting master output to match levels..think i got that right?..or not..
DJ Tecniq 5:21 AM - 12 November, 2015
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No i haven't used ssl..as i have said in this thread before..my post was really a reply to the clipping cause distortion..and to avoid that is to adjust the level so its not in the red before going live..thanks for the videos..i see what you mean with ssl master output i think.lol..but thats just the same as adjusting individual gains in sdj..in ssl you are just adjusting master output to match levels..think i got that right?..or not..
No it's not the same bro cause i'd have to do this for every track...The master output level as long as it's in the middle or below it will keep "ALL" your tracks from clipping.
DJ Tecniq 5:24 AM - 12 November, 2015
When I tried Master Output Level in SDJ it does "Nothing" to the overall track level...So I'm basically stuck with having to use auto gain which brings my tracks way too low. I want them in the yellow levels unfortunately SDJ does not do this. Even with the 92 db setting with auto gain on or off I am still clipping in the song level meter or it visually looks that way.
DJ Tecniq 5:27 AM - 12 November, 2015
I believe it is a design flaw and only works for controllers unfortunately. Because Master Output Level was never featured till 1.8 for the rane boxes. In the 1.7 there is not Master output level it doesn't exists. Basically Rane users with SL2 or above got the shit end of the stick. Keep in mind SDJ was for controllers in the beginning then later came DVS. I honestly think they overlooked this. It should of been the same whether your using a controller or DVS system. I think they just forgot about us "turntable" dj's :(
soul63 5:34 AM - 12 November, 2015
In that video you used the same track on both decks..both will have the same level..i can see the difference in your video between ssl and sdj..but that is just the overall volume showing.what as i explained earlier with different styles of music where auto gain dont always work..then individual gain tweaking has to be done
DJ Tecniq 6:24 AM - 12 November, 2015
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In that video you used the same track on both decks..both will have the same level..i can see the difference in your video between ssl and sdj..but that is just the overall volume showing.what as i explained earlier with different styles of music where auto gain dont always work..then individual gain tweaking has to be done
True, but for the majority of the tracks in scratchlive they are all under the clipping zone. Because of Master Output Level i can lower this more if need be to make sure i don't bleed at all. Unfortunately in SDJ I'm getting red levels for almost every track i play. Master output level would at least fix this but it doesn't work in SDJ it does nothing for the rane devices.
soul63 6:56 AM - 12 November, 2015
i never get red levels..i've hooked up my controllers..amx..denon mc2oo..quick tested about ten diferent tracks on each deck,,none going into the red..auto gain set at 89..the grey gain level dial on channels never passes 11pm..
DJ Tecniq 6:59 AM - 12 November, 2015
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i never get red levels..i've hooked up my controllers..amx..denon mc2oo..quick tested about ten diferent tracks on each deck,,none going into the red..auto gain set at 89..the grey gain level dial on channels never passes 11pm..
Are you using a rane box?
soul63 7:02 AM - 12 November, 2015
no
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i never get red levels..i've hooked up my controllers..amx..denon mc2oo..quick tested about ten diferent tracks on each deck,,none going into the red..auto gain set at 89..the grey gain level dial on channels never passes 11pm..
Are you using a rane box?

no,,but its not hardware related the internal vu meters in serato are independent to hardware unless you map them,,your issue is the software yeah? would a rane box make the software vu levels react different?..like i said i;m not very techy
Niro 7:50 AM - 12 November, 2015
Autogain will lower or boost individual tracks to the desired DB, master gain will lower or raise the volume equally. So if one track is 78db and anothef is 85db, if you raise the master gain by 2db, then the first track will now be 80db and the second will be 87db.

If you use autogain and set it at say 89db, then both tracks will be at 89db. First one raised by 11db and second by 4db. Hope that helps.
DJ Tecniq 9:13 AM - 12 November, 2015
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Autogain will lower or boost individual tracks to the desired DB, master gain will lower or raise the volume equally. So if one track is 78db and anothef is 85db, if you raise the master gain by 2db, then the first track will now be 80db and the second will be 87db.

If you use autogain and set it at say 89db, then both tracks will be at 89db. First one raised by 11db and second by 4db. Hope that helps.
But I tried master output level and it affects nothing? Not the track level gain like Scratchlive normally did. And it also is not in older versions below 1.8 for the Rane boxes. It only is featured in 1.8 why did they take so long to feature this when it should of been there from the beginning like every controller on the planet? Did they overlook this maybe? Guess DVS users got the shit end of the stick eh.
WarpNote 10:49 AM - 12 November, 2015
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I am not using auto gain on either program and both are at 92 db recommended setting.

@Tecniq: This sentence makes me think that you might have missed how autogain works. the 92 db setting will have no effect if you don't use auto gain. Also you will need to reanalyse the files that you want to compare with auto gain checked before doing your comparison. To me it seems as there is something weird going on in your software gain structure.

I did some comparison right now. SSL2.5 vs SDJ 1.8.0 using a Rane 62. Autogain @ 89db in both programs, pitch at 0%, keylock off. I thought maybe SSL was ever so slightly louder than SDJ, and maybe a little softer on the higher transients?
Most people tends to think the sound is better when louder....

However this could absolutely been a placebo, and I thought both sounded very nice indeed. This was on smaller lower end monitors (KRK Rokit 5), but I did play a nice loud system with loads of bass this weekend, really clear at all volumes...

Also, I'm not here to bash you Tecniq, just wanted to share some info and opinion. I also have the DJM900SRT, and always felt the SDJsound was up to the quality of SDJ when playing that mixer or using the 900nxs club kit at clubs...

Just my 2 (euro)cents...
All of my files have been analyzed in sdj already. What is also odd is the key i don't think it's accurate. Almost all my keys have the letter M like 6M, 7M, 8M, 9M, 10M, 11M, 12M. Is this right key info?


You need to REANALYSE WITH THE AUTOGAIN CHECKED...

About the keys, make sure you have camelot checked in setup.
WarpNote 10:58 AM - 12 November, 2015
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It wouldn't work unless i dragged the crate to "analyze files". Normally I could just be in a crate's area and click "analyze files" and it would work.

This is an old behavior/slight bug in akl versions of both ssl and sdj. If files has been analysed in an older version og the program, then you NEED TO DRAG ALL YOUR TRACKS to the analyse button. TBH this is Serato knowledge 101. But glad you are getting along.
WarpNote 11:02 AM - 12 November, 2015
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In Setup, make sure you have Auto Gain set to 89dB, the lowest setting. Then you can do 2 things: analyse your entire library to switch all of your tracks to 89dB, or as you play a new track, Serato will analyse the track as it plays.


You DONT need to analyze your entire library to change the Auto Gain settings.

1) All you need to do is change the db in the settings from the drop down.
2) Then uncheck 'Use Auto Gain' to disable auto gain
3) Then check 'Use Auto Gain' to enable auto gain

You have NEVER had to analyze your entire library to apply these setting not even in SSL

Are you 100% sure Midge? My experince was thar ssl never calculated gain level when autogain was off, even remember talking to serato support about it...
WarpNote 11:12 AM - 12 November, 2015
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Here's the video. This is why I don't like SDJ. If I use auto gain it still makes my tracks too low. I want them like Scratchlive normally has them with adjusting the master output level but it unfortunately doesn't even work in SDJ 1.8 for the SL3. Not sure about other hardware. This should of been resolved A LONG time ago...Whoever the developers were for Scratchlive I doubt they are in development with SDJ. Just saying. Here's the video
www.dropbox.com

Use the line gain not the master. And again, the 92db dont do squat unless you have AUTOGAIN ACTIVE, this goes for SSL too.
WarpNote 11:15 AM - 12 November, 2015
Honestly, the gain structure in ssl was a bit weird, and its more intuitive in SDJ IMO.
&Midge 11:54 AM - 12 November, 2015
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Are you 100% sure Midge? My experince was thar ssl never calculated gain level when autogain was off, even remember talking to serato support about it...


1) Load a track to deck
2) Press play
3) Open setup window
4) Change db settings (go for highest / lowest to ensure the most difference)
5) Disable 'Use Auto Gain'
6) Enable 'Use Auto Gain'

Depending if you set auto gain higher or lower you will hear the difference as soon as you enable 'Use Auto Gain'

I've just check both SSL and SDJ, they have the same behavior.
&Midge 11:57 AM - 12 November, 2015
As far as I'm understand neither SDJ or SSL alter the gain structure of the file in anyway (i.e. it doesn't save a change to the file). The auto gain is applied whilst the track is playing.
&Midge 12:00 PM - 12 November, 2015
If Auto is disabled then the track plays in it's original form.
WarpNote 1:29 PM - 12 November, 2015
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Are you 100% sure Midge? My experince was thar ssl never calculated gain level when autogain was off, even remember talking to serato support about it...


1) Load a track to deck
2) Press play
3) Open setup window
4) Change db settings (go for highest / lowest to ensure the most difference)
5) Disable 'Use Auto Gain'
6) Enable 'Use Auto Gain'

Depending if you set auto gain higher or lower you will hear the difference as soon as you enable 'Use Auto Gain'

I've just check both SSL and SDJ, they have the same behavior.
You left out these steps:
- Import fresh track.
- make sure autogain is off.
- analyse fresh track, and play.
- now, turn on autogain and reanalyse the track, play again.

Any difference? I used to have "mixed" experience with this in the past, honestly though, I always keep auto gain on these days. I does such a good job, and stops me from getting in the mess that Tecniq finds himself in....

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As far as I'm understand neither SDJ or SSL alter the gain structure of the file in anyway (i.e. it doesn't save a change to the file).
As far as I know, the gain info is written to the id tag/metadata for each track.

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If Auto is disabled then the track plays in it's original form.
Agreed.
&Midge 1:52 PM - 12 November, 2015
You DONT need to analyze and reanalyze. Analyze has nothing to do with Auto Gain
&Midge 1:56 PM - 12 November, 2015
Did you check my steps? do they work?

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As far as I know, the gain info is written to the id tag/metadata for each track.


It's possible I guess, but I cant find any tag/metadata relating to gain values. Perhaps I looking in the wrong place, but I can't seem to find this data in my tags. What should I be looking for mate?
&Midge 2:03 PM - 12 November, 2015
With Auto Gain enabled.

Crtl + Click = Resets the Gain values.
Alt + Click = Resets to Auto Gain values.
WarpNote 2:12 PM - 12 November, 2015
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Analyze has nothing to do with Auto Gain
This is slightly wrong my friend, from the SSL manual:

"Use Auto Gain
Auto gain enables you to set a uniform volume level for the tracks in your library. When a track is in auto gain mode, the track gain knob appears recessed.

Check this box to enable auto gain. Provided you have analyzed your files, your tracks will now be loaded with the auto gain applied.

Next to this box is a drop down menu, in which you set the target gain volume level.
To find the optimum setting, load a track with an average volume level onto one of the Virtual Decks. Now play the track, and take note of the volume and LED lights inside the software.

The idea is for the track volume to be sitting just under the clipping point (indicated by the LED meter red-lining). If the track is too quiet, unload it, then go to the Playback setup screen and boost the auto gain dB value more.

Once you’ve made this adjustment, load the same track onto the Virtual Deck again. You’ll notice that the volume knob has automatically adjusted itself.

Keep making adjustments on the same track until it’s just below the clipping point. Once this is set you won’t need to adjust the target gain level ever again.

Because the track you used had an average volume level, most of the other tracks in your library should be around the same volume. You may still need to make minor adjustments to some individual tracks, but once that’s done these will stay saved in the ID3 tag of the file.

TIP: Slightly too quiet is always better than too loud. If your LED meter is in the red, it is likely that it is clipping. Not only does clipping not sound very nice, it can damage your equipment."



The wording in the SDJ manual is slightly different:

"Use Auto Gain
As part of the overview building process, Serato DJ automatically calculates an auto gain value for each track. This value represents the gain adjustment required to match the perceived loudness of the track to a reference level. If the Use Auto Gain option is checked, each time a track containing auto gain data is loaded to a deck, the track gain knob will be set to a value that matches the level of audio in the track to the reference value selected from the drop down list to the right.

The drop down list allows you to select from 89dB (quieter) to 98dB (louder), however 92dB (default setting) is the recommend value."

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What should I be looking for mate?
I'm no expert with tag technicality, but as stated in the SSL manual, they write to the id3 tag. Expect that holds true for SDJ aswell.

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With Auto Gain enabled.

Crtl + Click = Resets the Gain values.
Alt + Click = Resets to Auto Gain values.
Great overall tip!!
&Midge 2:33 PM - 12 November, 2015
Well this might be where the confusion is......

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Check this box to enable auto gain. Provided you have analyzed your files, your tracks will now be loaded with the auto gain applied.


This doesn't mean you need to Analyze and Reanalyze every time you want to change the Auto Gain settings.
WarpNote 4:56 PM - 12 November, 2015
True, but I do think they made some overhaul to the gain analyse at one point, seeing how Tecniq "enforces" his analyse process, Id say its a good idea for him to reanalyse at this point, even if just for building beat grids for SDJ.
DJ Tecniq 9:06 PM - 12 November, 2015
Guys judge for yourselves I just did the live recording sound test of both softwares with same settings. Scratchlive sounds more pristine than SDJ ever will at least that is the result with my SL3 device. SDJ seems flat and dull and SSL sounds more full and punchy. I doubt you will be able to notice the difference but to say they sound identical is completely inaccurate. Maybe for controllers but not DVS systems. I made the comparison as quickly as I could and tried to be as accurate as I could. Why I would need to reanalyze my entire library with auto gain I have no idea. I've never had to use auto gain cause there's always the master output level in Scratchlive to take care of these issues and essentially auto gain is not needed due to master output level. It's unfortunate SDJ does not work the same with MOL. For this reason I have to stick with SSL it just has the better sound I want. SDJ is like a downgrade in audio quality. To put it this way Scratchlive is like HD audio and SDJ is like standard definition. My ears notice a difference and that's what makes a great DJ. Having a good ear😉 Please watch the comparison. db.tt
kbscholar 9:26 PM - 12 November, 2015
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Guys judge for yourselves I just did the live recording sound test of both softwares with same settings. Scratchlive sounds more pristine than SDJ ever will at least that is the result with my SL3 device. SDJ seems flat and dull and SSL sounds more full and punchy. I doubt you will be able to notice the difference but to say they sound identical is completely inaccurate. Maybe for controllers but not DVS systems. I made the comparison as quickly as I could and tried to be as accurate as I could. Why I would need to reanalyze my entire library with auto gain I have no idea. I've never had to use auto gain cause there's always the master output level in Scratchlive to take care of these issues and essentially auto gain is not needed due to master output level. It's unfortunate SDJ does not work the same with MOL. For this reason I have to stick with SSL it just has the better sound I want. SDJ is like a downgrade in audio quality. To put it this way Scratchlive is like HD audio and SDJ is like standard definition. My ears notice a difference and that's what makes a great DJ. Having a good ear😉 Please watch the comparison. db.tt


Bro, why are you still posting these videos? Why can you not understand what the Master Output Gain does. Scratch Live didn't properly have the Output Gain set. SDJ 1.8 makes more sense.

In that video, you were clearly running SDJ with the levels in the red, hence the poor sound.

You haven't posted any video on how the sound is reaching the mixer. Are you available for a phone call, so that I can walk you through the steps. For some reason, you can't seem to grasp what we have been saying. my cell phone is 510-427-3612.

Kyle
DJ Tecniq 9:29 PM - 12 November, 2015
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Guys judge for yourselves I just did the live recording sound test of both softwares with same settings. Scratchlive sounds more pristine than SDJ ever will at least that is the result with my SL3 device. SDJ seems flat and dull and SSL sounds more full and punchy. I doubt you will be able to notice the difference but to say they sound identical is completely inaccurate. Maybe for controllers but not DVS systems. I made the comparison as quickly as I could and tried to be as accurate as I could. Why I would need to reanalyze my entire library with auto gain I have no idea. I've never had to use auto gain cause there's always the master output level in Scratchlive to take care of these issues and essentially auto gain is not needed due to master output level. It's unfortunate SDJ does not work the same with MOL. For this reason I have to stick with SSL it just has the better sound I want. SDJ is like a downgrade in audio quality. To put it this way Scratchlive is like HD audio and SDJ is like standard definition. My ears notice a difference and that's what makes a great DJ. Having a good ear😉 Please watch the comparison. db.tt


Bro, why are you still posting these videos? Why can you not understand what the Master Output Gain does. Scratch Live didn't properly have the Output Gain set. SDJ 1.8 makes more sense.

In that video, you were clearly running SDJ with the levels in the red, hence the poor sound.

You haven't posted any video on how the sound is reaching the mixer. Are you available for a phone call, so that I can walk you through the steps. For some reason, you can't seem to grasp what we have been saying. my cell phone is 510-427-3612.

Kyle
I don't think you are understanding correctly the mixer was no where reaching red levels..What you see is a design flaw in the way the track output gain works. It is "red" no matter what unless i use auto gain...But still auto gain doesn't get the track volume as high as it should like Scratchlive.
kbscholar 9:30 PM - 12 November, 2015
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Guys judge for yourselves I just did the live recording sound test of both softwares with same settings. Scratchlive sounds more pristine than SDJ ever will at least that is the result with my SL3 device. SDJ seems flat and dull and SSL sounds more full and punchy. I doubt you will be able to notice the difference but to say they sound identical is completely inaccurate. Maybe for controllers but not DVS systems. I made the comparison as quickly as I could and tried to be as accurate as I could. Why I would need to reanalyze my entire library with auto gain I have no idea. I've never had to use auto gain cause there's always the master output level in Scratchlive to take care of these issues and essentially auto gain is not needed due to master output level. It's unfortunate SDJ does not work the same with MOL. For this reason I have to stick with SSL it just has the better sound I want. SDJ is like a downgrade in audio quality. To put it this way Scratchlive is like HD audio and SDJ is like standard definition. My ears notice a difference and that's what makes a great DJ. Having a good ear😉 Please watch the comparison. db.tt


Bro, why are you still posting these videos? Why can you not understand what the Master Output Gain does. Scratch Live didn't properly have the Output Gain set. SDJ 1.8 makes more sense.

In that video, you were clearly running SDJ with the levels in the red, hence the poor sound.

You haven't posted any video on how the sound is reaching the mixer. Are you available for a phone call, so that I can walk you through the steps. For some reason, you can't seem to grasp what we have been saying. my cell phone is 510-427-3612.

Kyle
I don't think you are understanding correctly the mixer was no where reaching red levels..What you see is a design flaw in the way the track output gain works. It is "red" no matter what unless i use auto gain...But still auto gain doesn't get the track volume as high as it should like Scratchlive.


What is your phone number?
DJ Tecniq 9:30 PM - 12 November, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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Guys judge for yourselves I just did the live recording sound test of both softwares with same settings. Scratchlive sounds more pristine than SDJ ever will at least that is the result with my SL3 device. SDJ seems flat and dull and SSL sounds more full and punchy. I doubt you will be able to notice the difference but to say they sound identical is completely inaccurate. Maybe for controllers but not DVS systems. I made the comparison as quickly as I could and tried to be as accurate as I could. Why I would need to reanalyze my entire library with auto gain I have no idea. I've never had to use auto gain cause there's always the master output level in Scratchlive to take care of these issues and essentially auto gain is not needed due to master output level. It's unfortunate SDJ does not work the same with MOL. For this reason I have to stick with SSL it just has the better sound I want. SDJ is like a downgrade in audio quality. To put it this way Scratchlive is like HD audio and SDJ is like standard definition. My ears notice a difference and that's what makes a great DJ. Having a good ear😉 Please watch the comparison. db.tt


Bro, why are you still posting these videos? Why can you not understand what the Master Output Gain does. Scratch Live didn't properly have the Output Gain set. SDJ 1.8 makes more sense.

In that video, you were clearly running SDJ with the levels in the red, hence the poor sound.

You haven't posted any video on how the sound is reaching the mixer. Are you available for a phone call, so that I can walk you through the steps. For some reason, you can't seem to grasp what we have been saying. my cell phone is 510-427-3612.

Kyle
I don't think you are understanding correctly the mixer was no where reaching red levels..What you see is a design flaw in the way the track output gain works. It is "red" no matter what unless i use auto gain...But still auto gain doesn't get the track volume as high as it should like Scratchlive.


What is your phone number?
i'll message you it
DJ Tecniq 9:33 PM - 12 November, 2015
And to back up my statement. The sub did not sound as punchy as Scratchlive did it sounded very flat and just overall horrible. Even with the 92 db setting i still get red levels in sdj..as i clearly showed you in the video. It's almost like it's reading an inaccurate track level. If you notice my gain on the track level was in the 12 o clock position it looked as if i were still bleeding...??
kbscholar 9:34 PM - 12 November, 2015
Text me your number at 510-427-3612.
DJ Tecniq 9:35 PM - 12 November, 2015
Quote:
Text me your number at 510-427-3612.
Will do
Mr. Goodkat 10:03 PM - 12 November, 2015
i see what both people are saying.

and while i rag on tecniq for complaining too much, but im kinda on his side.

1.8 is better and one Serato forum person said its exactly the same as SSL. I replied 'does that mean its exactly the same as in the same audio engine as ssl' because really thats the only way its the 'exact same'

what im getting with SDJ is what techniq is describing with every song coming out super hot. even if get to the yellow, no red on a channel meter in serato, its still super bright. if i use the auto gain it tends to really kill the mids and upper mids. its pretty noticeable on a bigger system.

its not awful, but it does lack the sweetness of ssl. i think its glaring to some people because you are listening at loud levels. its kinda like a microscope effect. its just sorta noticable at practice and home low level use, but on loud systems its just not quite the sound of SSL.

its not awful, its just not that good.
DJ Tecniq 10:15 PM - 12 November, 2015
I figured out what was going on and this is why i suggest users use auto gain in SDJ and keep it on at all times. With auto gain off in SDJ and raising the Master Output Level you will start to get distorted audio. With adjusting the MOL with auto gain on you won't have this issue it basically makes sure you don't peak your levels. Why it sounded so different from scratchlive cause I had auto gain off in SDJ. I never really used it or needed it cause MOL in Scratchlive was a lifesaver. Shouts to kbscholar for explaining things. I'm new to SDJ and I just got terrible results with it due to auto gain being disabled.
soul63 10:17 PM - 12 November, 2015
Reading through the thread.it looks like people are agreeing ssl is some what better sounding,though from techniq video i cant really hear the difference.1.8 line levels are hotter than 1.7.8.
DJ Tecniq 10:18 PM - 12 November, 2015
So make sure auto gain is ON in SDJ for whatever db setting you have set. When auto gain is off stay away from Master Output Level or even touching it cause you will get distorted audio if you go to high.
DJ Tecniq 10:22 PM - 12 November, 2015
I originally thought the master output level in SDJ changes the track gain just like Scratchlive does. It does not and works completely different. With auto gain on the MOL in SDJ syncs with your dj mixer's Master output or whatever mixer you are using. Kinda like a piggy back. So if you have auto gain on in SDJ and turn MOL up you will see your mixers master output level raise. If you turn MOL down in SDJ you will see your mixers master level turn down. This may confuse some who come from Scratchlive.
WarpNote 10:27 PM - 12 November, 2015
At last! :D
No wonder you did not get a punchy signal when you were clipping all the time.

This is the reason why I wrote:
Quote:
the 92 db setting will have no effect if you don't use auto gain

Now try connect a Rane mixer to your PA system instead of the DJM 700, that will probably have a bigger impact on your overall sound quality...
Also, remember that you can adjust the gain on a per track basis. (even if the dial is grey)
kbscholar 10:30 PM - 12 November, 2015
Soul63, speak with Tecniq or myself. I called him to Facetime, and walk him through the difference b/w SSL and SDJ. He is all squared away.

Here are the key take-aways to run SDJ clean and punchy, without clipping:

1. Auto Gain MUST be checked in Setup. Also, the original setting of 92 dB is too loud in SDJ, and will result in poor audio and/or clipping. The best result is setting the Auto Gain level to 89-91. (I personally recommend setting it to 89 dB for the added headroom).

2. You may or may not need to adjust the Master Output Gain (upper right corner of SDJ). That gain now runs differently from SSL 2.5. It now only runs one direction: out of SDJ and in to the mixer.

3. On the mixer, adjust the channel gain so that the sound output is anywhere between 0 dB (the line where the green meets the yellow) and +4 dB (2 or 3 yellows). If you need to do additional tweaking to the levels on the mixer, you can raise/lower the Master Output Gain in SDJ.


If you follow these settings, you will have great audio.
DJ Tecniq 10:32 PM - 12 November, 2015
Quote:
At last! :D
No wonder you did not get a punchy signal when you were clipping all the time.

This is the reason why I wrote:
Quote:
the 92 db setting will have no effect if you don't use auto gain

Now try connect a Rane mixer to your PA system instead of the DJM 700, that will probably have a bigger impact on your overall sound quality...
Also, remember that you can adjust the gain on a per track basis. (even if the dial is grey)
Yeah i just thought Master Output Level in 1.8 worked the same as Scratchlive which it does not. And it's quite depressing they finally added MOL in 1.8 for the rane devices. They should of had it from the beginning like the controllers. A shame we got a late addition.
soul63 10:33 PM - 12 November, 2015
Not sure why i need to speak to anyone..lol..i aint got no issues with redlining or distortion..why? because i turn it down if it looks to high...
DJ Tecniq 10:34 PM - 12 November, 2015
And yes kbscholar is right with auto gain off and the 92 db setting sdj runs too hot. You will get red levels on your track gains. Keep auto gain on it is a lifesaver!
DJ Tecniq 10:36 PM - 12 November, 2015
Quote:
Not sure why i need to speak to anyone..lol..i aint got no issues with redlining or distortion..why? because i turn it down if it looks to high...
I had no problem redlining either. The program itself with the track gains displays it as redlining with the recommended setting..Why i don't know I think they need to tweak it so it doesn't run as hot.
WarpNote 10:38 PM - 12 November, 2015
I disagree, I think auto gain is great, always used it in SSL too. It always makes sure my tracks have a nice hot output without clipping. And to be honest, i dont have an issue with the 92db setting either, only bad mastered files (brickwalls) will only ever clip at that setting in my experience. Why someone would want to mess with the software gain during performance is beyond my understanding. Counter productive to say the least.

Quote:
with auto gain off and the 92 db setting sdj runs too hot.
This is because the 92db setting is ONLY active for auto gain... and this is the SAME in SSL...
kbscholar 10:42 PM - 12 November, 2015
Quote:
I disagree, I think auto gain is great, always used it in SSL too. It always makes sure my tracks have a nice hot output without clipping. And to be honest, i dont have an issue with the 92db setting either, only bad mastered files (brickwalls) will only ever clip at that setting in my experience. Why someone would want to mess with the software gain during performance is beyond my understanding. Counter productive to say the least.

Quote:
with auto gain off and the 92 db setting sdj runs too hot.
This is because the 92db setting is ONLY active for auto gain... and this is the SAME in SSL...


Warp, I noticed that when I had Auto Gain ON & set to 92 dB, the signal was still too hot. That is why I run Auto Gain at 89 dB. I make all of my adjustments at my Allen & Heath Xone 92. The audio runs great!
kbscholar 10:43 PM - 12 November, 2015
Quote:
Not sure why i need to speak to anyone..lol..i aint got no issues with redlining or distortion..why? because i turn it down if it looks to high...


Exactly, turn it down if it looks too high.

I guess I failed to make the point. With the right audio settings on both platforms, both sound really close to each other, if not identical.
DJ Tecniq 10:44 PM - 12 November, 2015
I think ppl are not understand that auto gain and master output level work differently for controller users. DVS users are getting very hot signals with auto gain off. This is clear.
WarpNote 10:44 PM - 12 November, 2015
I've tested gain with Rane 62, 64, mp2015 (club kit), DJM700 (w/SL4), DJM850 (club kit) & DJM900 (club kit), its been a while since a was on a Xone92, great mixer btw!
WarpNote 10:46 PM - 12 November, 2015
Quote:
I think ppl are not understand that auto gain and master output level work differently for controller users. DVS users are getting very hot signals with auto gain off. This is clear.

Yep, so did SSL, thats why they probably introduced the master volume as band aid, before they were able to implement the better solution: auto gain...
DJ Tecniq 10:46 PM - 12 November, 2015
So i apologize for the gripe. I just didn't get good audio with auto gain off and the recommended setting. Not my fault it's that way. Never used auto gain in SSL and never had this problem.
DJ Tecniq 10:49 PM - 12 November, 2015
With SDJ's 92 db setting (recommended) and auto gain off you will have horrible audio and trying to adjust the master output level will just cause more distortion. At least that's how it is for the rane boxes/dvs users.
WarpNote 10:53 PM - 12 November, 2015
Quote:
So i apologize for the gripe.

Its all good Tecniq, I'm glad you got the hang of it now. I've been a Scratch Live user since version 1.7, transferred to SDJ for all my gigs about 1 year ago, maybe more.

Once you get to know all the great features of SDJ, you dont wanna go back :D
Ie: Flip, Slicer, PnT, Beatjump, Quantize, Beat Grids, Club Kit for installed mixers, New FX etc..

Quote:
With SDJ's 92 db setting (recommended) and auto gain off you will have horrible audio
Yep. no matter what db setting you use without auto gain you will have this, I believe its equivalent to setting the SSL master output at max...
Frankie Glasses 11:04 PM - 12 November, 2015
Quote:
Soul63, speak with Tecniq or myself. I called him to Facetime, and walk him through the difference b/w SSL and SDJ. He is all squared away.

Here are the key take-aways to run SDJ clean and punchy, without clipping:

1. Auto Gain MUST be checked in Setup. Also, the original setting of 92 dB is too loud in SDJ, and will result in poor audio and/or clipping. The best result is setting the Auto Gain level to 89-91. (I personally recommend setting it to 89 dB for the added headroom).

2. You may or may not need to adjust the Master Output Gain (upper right corner of SDJ). That gain now runs differently from SSL 2.5. It now only runs one direction: out of SDJ and in to the mixer.

3. On the mixer, adjust the channel gain so that the sound output is anywhere between 0 dB (the line where the green meets the yellow) and +4 dB (2 or 3 yellows). If you need to do additional tweaking to the levels on the mixer, you can raise/lower the Master Output Gain in SDJ.


If you follow these settings, you will have great audio.


So if users were using 92db on the auto gain and then start using the 89db, do we necessarily need to re-analyze entire library or once the track is loaded it will change it.
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 11:06 PM - 12 November, 2015
Quote:
So if users were using 92db on the auto gain and then start using the 89db, do we necessarily need to re-analyze entire library or once the track is loaded it will change it.

No you don't. The files just need to be analyzed first for you to use auto gain, after that you can change the autogain setting to whatever you want.
DJ Tecniq 11:38 PM - 12 November, 2015
Will the track gains signal be fixed or lowered cause with auto gain off and the 92 db setting users with DVS are redlining the track gain. It's not our fault this is the program's default setting. If there was no auto gain we'd be screwed.
dj lashes 8:17 AM - 13 November, 2015
Quote:
Hi all,

Just to clarify, for those using DVS devices (e.g. the Rane SL2, Sixty-Two etc.) the sound quality of Serato DJ 1.8 and Scratch Live should be exactly the same. If you are experiencing a noticeable difference then check your setting such as auto gain, master volume etc.

Cheers,
Michael.

ok so SDJ 1.8 with a controller the sound is not the same?
WarpNote 2:48 PM - 13 November, 2015
Quote:
ok so SDJ 1.8 with a controller the sound is not the same?
As long as you stay with autogain at 92db it should be the same, as the limiter should not kick in. In general, you might wanna be careful when running software effects though.

The sound card on your controller will be the most deciding factor for output quality, not the software. My DDJ-SX sounds pretty nice on my KSQ K12 speakers, maybe not as nice as the Rane 62 but still good IMO.

As the saying goes, you kinda get what you pay for..
WarpNote 8:11 PM - 14 November, 2015
Quote:
In general, you might wanna be careful when running software effects though.

Also, when scratching you will normally get loud peaks...
Dj Ace 12:49 AM - 16 November, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
ok so SDJ 1.8 with a controller the sound is not the same?
As long as you stay with autogain at 92db it should be the same, as the limiter should not kick in. In general, you might wanna be careful when running software effects though.

The sound card on your controller will be the most deciding factor for output quality, not the software. My DDJ-SX sounds pretty nice on my KSQ K12 speakers, maybe not as nice as the Rane 62 but still good IMO.

As the saying goes, you kinda get what you pay for..


Exactly...well said
SG SOUNDS 11:18 AM - 16 November, 2015
Quote:
So i apologize for the gripe. I just didn't get good audio with auto gain off and the recommended setting. Not my fault it's that way. Never used auto gain in SSL and never had this problem.


Ok now that you gotten the problem sorted out does sdj 1.8 sound the same as ssl in your opinion? Ive been going back and forth all weekend between both on my 62 and to me ssl still sounds more warmer and fuller than sdj..
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 9:07 PM - 17 November, 2015
Quote:
ok so SDJ 1.8 with a controller the sound is not the same?

I posted this earlier but it has gotten lost in all the posts:

Quote:
If you are using Rane hardware, you should definitely notice a difference in sound quality in Serato DJ 1.8. We have removed the limiter and added a Master Volume knob for these devices, so the sound quality should be exactly the same as Scratch Live.

Also for all controllers which are software mixed, there is still a limiter in place, so when you increase the gain to a level where the audio signal will clip then the limiter will engage and you may notice a difference in audio quality.

One thing to note about DJ hardware is that not all soundcards are created equal, so one piece of hardware may sound better than another when running on the same software.
DJ Tecniq 6:22 AM - 18 November, 2015
Quote:
Ok now that you gotten the problem sorted out does sdj 1.8 sound the same as ssl in your opinion? Ive been going back and forth all weekend between both on my 62 and to me ssl still sounds more warmer and fuller than sdj..
Been testing 1.8 at the house and I cannot tell the difference between the two. SDJ sounds great. Make sure you have auto gain on and master output level less than halfway. Sounds really clean on my end. Here's a short recording I did using SDJ with some wordplay. www.dropbox.com
WarpNote 6:32 AM - 18 November, 2015
Glad you got it sorted Tecniq! IMO SDJ offers so many great things, that I'd be hard pressed to switch back to SSL at this point. Ie PnT, 8 Cues, RGB pads, Isotope FX, beat jump, Flip.. the list goes on.

On the note on sound quality, got the DJM S9 home yesterday, its early days, but I do think it probably sounds sweeter than the DJM900....
DJ Tecniq 8:38 AM - 18 November, 2015
Quote:
Glad you got it sorted Tecniq! IMO SDJ offers so many great things, that I'd be hard pressed to switch back to SSL at this point. Ie PnT, 8 Cues, RGB pads, Isotope FX, beat jump, Flip.. the list goes on.

On the note on sound quality, got the DJM S9 home yesterday, its early days, but I do think it probably sounds sweeter than the DJM900....
Word I'm actually debating if I wanna get the Z2 to save more money or the S9. I'd sell my DJM-700 eventually.
dibb 4:30 PM - 18 November, 2015
Thanks all for sharing this valuable information about (auto) gain staging in SDJ.

I've been annoyed about the hotness of the signal / lack of headroom for a long time, but never used auto gain. Now I do (I'm now on 90dB, might experiment with other settings). Much much better! :)

(using VCI-400 / AMX at home, mostly DJM900 when playing out)
DJ Tecniq 4:42 PM - 18 November, 2015
Quote:
Thanks all for sharing this valuable information about (auto) gain staging in SDJ.

I've been annoyed about the hotness of the signal / lack of headroom for a long time, but never used auto gain. Now I do (I'm now on 90dB, might experiment with other settings). Much much better! :)

(using VCI-400 / AMX at home, mostly DJM900 when playing out)
No shit right man. They should make it apparent to keep auto gain on or at least it's set for default when you load SDJ. No wonder why I had such shit audio. If you have auto gain off and higher master level about half way it stars to sound like garbage. But like I said I've never had this problem with auto gain off using SSL the signal wasn't as hot. Hopefully they will tweak this a bit more cause my tracks aren't mastered that high but with auto gain off SDJ makes them sound that way.
kbscholar 4:42 PM - 18 November, 2015
Quote:
Thanks all for sharing this valuable information about (auto) gain staging in SDJ.

I've been annoyed about the hotness of the signal / lack of headroom for a long time, but never used auto gain. Now I do (I'm now on 90dB, might experiment with other settings). Much much better! :)

(using VCI-400 / AMX at home, mostly DJM900 when playing out)


No worries Dibb. I am happy that we could all offer assistance to get you dialed in with your audio.
DJ Tecniq 4:48 PM - 18 November, 2015
My settings in SDJ is auto gain on at 91 db. 92 is too high as I still get clipped audio. 91 is perfect.
dibb 5:06 PM - 18 November, 2015
I might dial my setting up to 91 dB then.. ;)
WarpNote 5:07 PM - 18 November, 2015
Quote:
Word I'm actually debating if I wanna get the Z2 to save more money or the S9. I'd sell my DJM-700 eventually.

I ordered my S9 today, spent last night testing it. I'm sold on that mixer.... ;-)
(and as mentioned, I already have both the DJM900SRT and the Rane62)
WarpNote 5:10 PM - 18 November, 2015
Quote:
They should make it apparent to keep auto gain on or at least it's set for default when you load SDJ.

Actually, I do believe it is on by default after install. I did a fresh install on an fresh macbook pro for a buddy a few weeks back.... Are you sure you didn't turn it off yourself?
DJ Tecniq 7:14 PM - 18 November, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
They should make it apparent to keep auto gain on or at least it's set for default when you load SDJ.

Actually, I do believe it is on by default after install. I did a fresh install on an fresh macbook pro for a buddy a few weeks back.... Are you sure you didn't turn it off yourself?
Im not really sure but you're prob right
Frankie Glasses 8:02 PM - 18 November, 2015
Quote:
My settings in SDJ is auto gain on at 91 db. 92 is too high as I still get clipped audio. 91 is perfect.


Just curious, have you used it at 89db as suggested by someone else?
kbscholar 8:08 PM - 18 November, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
My settings in SDJ is auto gain on at 91 db. 92 is too high as I still get clipped audio. 91 is perfect.


Just curious, have you used it at 89db as suggested by someone else?


Frankie, I suggested that Tecniq set his gain to 89dB. We video chatted to test that level, and everything worked great. He then dialed it in to 91 dB, a level that he was fine with.

I still recommend using Auto Gain set to 89-90 dB. I currently have mine set to 90 dB, with great audio quality.
Frankie Glasses 9:42 PM - 18 November, 2015
Ok gotcha
DJ Tecniq 10:15 PM - 18 November, 2015
I thought 89 db was too low. Just personal preference i guess.
Smoke21 5:08 AM - 20 November, 2015
Recently used 1.7.8 with auto gain at 89db and my gains between 2and 4 and master at 0 sounded good to me...
Bogdan Dobrescu 8:30 AM - 17 April, 2020
In conclusion : after 5-6 years i still use SSL 2.5
Why ? :
- SDJ looks like a toy for beginners , a lot of colors and functions for home DJ’s using console instead CDJ or Turntables
- SDJ has freeze in waveform which is more disturbing to the eyes
- SDJ effects sound like digital sound , not analog sound in term of EQ especially LF and HF . In order to check this you should use an analog mixer and you’ll see the difference.
- SDJ in scratch vinyl will not perform like SSL ever
- SSL 2.5 is more stable in terms of sound quality and low latency compared with SDJ

I compared all versions of SDJ with SSL 2.5 using my last Macbook Pro later 2019 with SSD buit-in and Rane 62. I made movies and i sent to Serato Staff in order to explain the issue with SDJ

And their confirmation was : SL was developed by RANE using another platform having in mind the analog sound performed by RANE .
This is already confirmed by Serato Staff.
In conclusion SDJ is only a beautiful marketing and
that’s all. SSL developed by Rane should reborn in my opinion

... and Happy easter to everybody !
deejdave 2:56 PM - 17 April, 2020
OG Rane is no longer as they were sold off to InMusic and they were hardware manufacturers not software developers. Serato was indeed created by Serato serato.com but yes with Rane in close mind as they had the exclusive partnership out the gate. I hear what you are saying and I don't FULLY disagree (especially with some of your points) but as a whole the progress HAS been positive and some really great stuff has been offered over the years many of which OG Rane would have NEVER been able to tackle. If InMusic had not purchased Rane there is a good chance it would not be around anymore as the gam has changed a bit. Still a need for rock solid great sounding mixers but the market for controllers and "tech" can't be ignored either.

Keep in mind SSL was a glorified media player so yes it was obviously more stable and was barely a strain on ANY machine. Neither is/was Winamp. SDJ does MUCH more. Obviously this is up for debate as to whether it will suit any given individuals needs is all.
Andrei Matei 5:29 AM - 18 April, 2020
Quote:
In conclusion : after 5-6 years i still use SSL 2.5
Why ? :
- SDJ looks like a toy for beginners , a lot of colors and functions for home DJ’s using console instead CDJ or Turntables
- SDJ has freeze in waveform which is more disturbing to the eyes
- SDJ effects sound like digital sound , not analog sound in term of EQ especially LF and HF . In order to check this you should use an analog mixer and you’ll see the difference.
- SDJ in scratch vinyl will not perform like SSL ever
- SSL 2.5 is more stable in terms of sound quality and low latency compared with SDJ

I compared all versions of SDJ with SSL 2.5 using my last Macbook Pro later 2019 with SSD buit-in and Rane 62. I made movies and i sent to Serato Staff in order to explain the issue with SDJ

And their confirmation was : SL was developed by RANE using another platform having in mind the analog sound performed by RANE .
This is already confirmed by Serato Staff.
In conclusion SDJ is only a beautiful marketing and
that’s all. SSL developed by Rane should reborn in my opinion

... and Happy easter to everybody !



I was in the same camp as you until I purchased my Rane Twelves late last year to go with my Rane 62s...so I was forced to migrate. I discovered several things:

- To me, the sound of SSL is still slightly warmer/fuller/more pleasing with a slight color to it vs. the flat SDJ Pro. However, with autogain turned off, it really do think its"ok enough." (Never thought I'd say this but I am. And I am VERY picky.)

- I actually don't mind the UI of SDJ now. It used to look really bad when it was SDJ, but SDJ Pro, especially with Hi-Res support, is pretty nice imo.

- Yes, most waveforms are still very unsmooth with SDJ. They changed the graphics engine after SDJ 1.7.8 and they don't intend to go back. The only computers I've seen where the waveforms are very smooth (really close to SSL) are the 2015 15" Macbook Pros, 2018 and newer 15" Macbook pros, and the 2019 13" Macbook Pros. Everything else is really not smooth AT ALL.

- Yup the SDJ effects are horrible imo. I've asked about these over and over since 2013. I recommend getting a mixer with good hardware FX such as a Rane 62/64/70/72. Once you get used to it, you'll never care about the internal effects anymore. The echo on the Rane 62 is still the cleanest and best of any mixer I've ever used, imo. And lots of people are obsessed with the S9 effects too.

- I'm not sure I can comment on the tracking and latency of SSL vs. SDJ on vinyl as I don't scratch, but on my Twelves, I have no complaints at all. The Twelves are my favorite control surface I've ever used. Previous;y, I used SSL with CDJs and Techs and SDJ Pro with controllers. I'll never go back to any of those. The Twelves feel so good, it's worth lugging them around to gigs.

- Clubkit or Serato DVS or whatever it's called now is a game changer when you need to quickly hook into a DJM900.

- SSL is def. smaller (around 20MB if I remember) vs. more than 120MB for SDJ. However, for me, SDJ has been really stable on a dedicated DJing computer (Macbook Pro, not PC) with nothing else installed.

Overall, I wish it sounded like SSL, but I've finally had to thrown in the towel and move on.

Here are the biggest reasons I can't go back to SSL anymore:
- Pitch 'n Time sounds WAY better than SSL keylock and key shifting / matching is a game changer for me. Allows me so many more mix options that sound great.
- Tempo sync is handy for really quick mixes or trying out a ton of song options quickly
- Two column sort is great
- Lots of nice features in SDJ Video that wasn't in SSL video
- High res mode is nice on Retina
- The graphics engine has shifted grids and cute points slightly from SSL and SDJ once it was implemented in SDJ Pro, so if you are re-doing your library now, you want to do so with a eye towards the future
- HID mode on CDJs doesn't have the skipping bug that SSL had
- Nested smart crates are really nice
- It's the only option for the Rane Twelves

So overall, I TOTALLY feel you, but give SDJ Pro a chance. There is a lot to love even though the sound isn't quite as good as SSL. Thank goodness its way better than SDJ was though...that was awful. Just never use autogain, manually save your track gains, use a great sounding mixer like a Rane 70/72, and you'll be in pretty good shape.
deejdave 1:57 PM - 18 April, 2020
VERY well said. In comparison they are just two completely different animals. SSL is just a dual media player app while SDJ has become a full blown suite.
DJ Discovery 11:01 PM - 21 August, 2020
SDJ Pro does sound better than Rekordbox.
david07 12:12 AM - 22 August, 2020
Depending on the connected hardware you will get better or worse sound, computer and monitors also influence
mixgoonie 7:39 AM - 22 August, 2020
How the track has been mastered does also effect the sound quality. In general Serato sound much closer how the track has been mastered compared to any DJ software, why i do use Serato.

Now do you only listen SDJ on PA speakers or on Studio monitors because that make a huge difference on how the sound quality is perceived.
577er 3:57 AM - 25 August, 2020
SDJ Pro sounds good to me. Does it sound like angels singing inside my head? No. But it’s an inexpensive super fun software so for that it sounds good enough. Way better the SDJ without the Pro suffix.
577er 3:57 AM - 25 August, 2020
SDJ Pro sounds good to me. Does it sound like angels singing inside my head? No. But it’s an inexpensive super fun software so for that it sounds good enough. Way better the SDJ without the Pro suffix.
577er 3:58 AM - 25 August, 2020
Looks like a glitch in the matrix 😝
Hanginon 11:35 PM - 25 August, 2020
Quote:
VERY well said. In comparison they are just two completely different animals. SSL is just a dual media player app while SDJ has become a full blown suite.

SSL 2.5 is a 69 mb download, SDJ Pro is over 600 mb! Do the math.

While it can be argued that a complicated machine like a BMW will always beat a rickshaw in a race - but when the BMW breaks you're really screwed!
david07 9:27 PM - 20 January, 2021
Many friends continue with live scratch, they say it sounds better, I changed for several things, one because the hardware I currently have forces me to use sdj pro, 2 because on mac the recordings were in aiff and finally because I like to see waves horizontally and that they occupy the whole screen, at first I used the sl3 with scratch live and it was going very well👍
david07 9:27 PM - 20 January, 2021
Many friends continue with live scratch, they say it sounds better, I changed for several things, one because the hardware I currently have forces me to use sdj pro, 2 because on mac the recordings were in aiff and finally because I like to see waves horizontally and that they occupy the whole screen, at first I used the sl3 with scratch live and it was going very well👍
Andrei Matei 9:34 PM - 20 January, 2021
Quote:
Many friends continue with live scratch, they say it sounds better, I changed for several things, one because the hardware I currently have forces me to use sdj pro, 2 because on mac the recordings were in aiff and finally because I like to see waves horizontally and that they occupy the whole screen, at first I used the sl3 with scratch live and it was going very well👍


It's true. I know some notable DJs around Austin still on SSL for this reason. I agree but there isn't much we can do at this point. Many of the features of SDJ Pro are so critical for me (Key Sync, PnT, two column sort, better video functionality, etc.) that it is what it is.

SDJ: Sounded bad
SDJ Pro: Sounds Ok
SSL: Sounds good
CDJ-Only: Sounds great

Crowds won't hear the difference. Many DJs can't either unless you A/B test for them on a big system. I certainly can hear the difference, but I'm also pretty OCD. I'd love to see the audio engine improved, but if we haven't gotten clean FX in SDJ Pro, and we've been asking since 2013, its just not a priority for them. They have to keep up with all the new gear being released, streaming services integration, etc. and other stuff that we prob. don't care about but a lot of the masses do.
david07 10:34 PM - 20 January, 2021
I use sdj pro and do techno sessions, I don't use even half of its functions, and the functions of tidal etc ... I have it disabled, I do not use it, with that I say everything
Andrei Matei 7:36 AM - 26 January, 2021
Oh, one more thing. Disable autogain. Helps a lot with SQ. I pre-save all my gain levels per track manually.
&Midge 7:48 PM - 1 February, 2021
I always use Auto Gain, but have it turned down to 89db. Anything else is too hot
Andrei Matei 11:28 PM - 1 February, 2021
Quote:
I always use Auto Gain, but have it turned down to 89db. Anything else is too hot


Try it completely off on a big system. Set your gains manually on a few tracks to peak top yellow but never red. You'll notice the depth and clarity and punchiness of the music. Regardless of DB setting, AutoGain on lowers SQ.
david07 12:08 PM - 2 February, 2021
I always have autogain activated by default because otherwise I would be controlling the gains of the tracks every time to equalize it and in a session of 1h or 2 it would be a mess
Andrei Matei 3:50 PM - 2 February, 2021
Quote:
I always have autogain activated by default because otherwise I would be controlling the gains of the tracks every time to equalize it and in a session of 1h or 2 it would be a mess

Just set the track gains manually yourself ahead of time, then lock the tracks. More work, but I think its worth it.
DJ Tecniq 12:13 AM - 3 February, 2021
I would not concentrate on gain levels so much in Serato. The gain indicator levels are really sensitive if you’re peaking in the red you won’t really notice an audible difference. Most tracks are mastered extremely high gain anyway but i still set my autogain at 91db. Just my opinion.
david07 7:48 PM - 3 February, 2021
Anyway, I'm sure that all the songs I put on are at the same volume level but it may happen that some are not and I prefer to leave it activated, I prefer to concentrate on the mix, there are people the other way around and I respect that everyone works as they want, here I give a set of mine

www.mixcloud.com
hvn 8:35 PM - 3 February, 2021
Quote:
Oh, one more thing. Disable autogain. Helps a lot with SQ. I pre-save all my gain levels per track manually.

Is this still a valid suggestion?

I thought that the limiter, which caused some sound issues, was deactivated with Serato DJ version 1.8 or 1.9 at least.
M.adaM 9:21 PM - 3 February, 2021
Quote:
Oh, one more thing. Disable autogain. Helps a lot with SQ. I pre-save all my gain levels per track manually.


How is that can be done exactly?

I have to rebuild my entire collection from scratch because of a major data-loss, so I don’t mind spending some clicks extra on every song if it becomes better in S.Q. and I can keep autogain OFF
mixgoonie 5:36 PM - 5 February, 2021
There is indeed a difference of basses between AG off and on. But mixes are more smooth with AG on, I cannot explain how but transitions are easier. Sad that AG on is not touching only med and high frequencies without touching the low frequencies.
&Midge 10:05 AM - 7 February, 2021
Pitch and Time also makes the takes run hotter...
&Midge 10:06 AM - 7 February, 2021
tracks*
StefanDDJ 4:10 PM - 10 July, 2021
DDJ SRT, Macbook pro 2014 Big Sur, SDJ 2.5.5. Music straight from the iTunes library. Last show. I play music, the sound is dull and flat. I restart Serato, DDJ on and off. Remove the iTunes library from SDJ and reload it. I start SDJ with the controller connected, then again first SDJ and then the controller. At the 4th or 5th Start - wow! Crystal clear sound! A completely different world! Suddenly it was fun to be the DJ !! The next day the sound was dull and mediocre again. The bottom line: SDJ can sound very good! The problem: Sometimes it sounds crystal clear, then again dull. It's after years for me! failed to find a way to reliably start the system with the correct sound quality. Can someone tell whether a standalone device (Prime 2) always delivers the same sound. And how does the Prime 2 sound compared to the Rane / SL?
benictrs 5:35 PM - 11 July, 2021
Hello ,
is it me or serato's left deck is always louder& fuller in sound ?
Noticed this first time years ago when i used Rane SL3 , i find this to be the same these days on my SZ2 & SX3 , te left deck sounds always louder & fuller , tried with the same loosles audio file on both decks & controlers , sound cards... With auto gain on & off ...
Is it just me ? Is anyone else experiencing this ?
benictrs 5:36 PM - 11 July, 2021
Hello ,
is it me or serato's left deck is always louder& fuller in sound ?
Noticed this first time years ago when i used Rane SL3 , i find this to be the same these days on my SZ2 & SX3 , te left deck sounds always louder & fuller , tried with the same loosles audio file on both decks & controlers , sound cards... With auto gain on & off ...
Is it just me ? Is anyone else experiencing this ?
577er 6:15 PM - 11 July, 2021
I’ve not noticed this and have used many different laptops, interfaces, mixers and controllers.

Have you only noticed this on one laptop?
benictrs 6:40 PM - 11 July, 2021
Quote:
I’ve not noticed this and have used many different laptops, interfaces, mixers and controllers.

Have you only noticed this on one laptop?

Several Laptops , two of my own and several friends machines . Same story .
DJ Tecniq 8:15 PM - 11 July, 2021
Quote:
DDJ SRT, Macbook pro 2014 Big Sur, SDJ 2.5.5. Music straight from the iTunes library. Last show. I play music, the sound is dull and flat. I restart Serato, DDJ on and off. Remove the iTunes library from SDJ and reload it. I start SDJ with the controller connected, then again first SDJ and then the controller. At the 4th or 5th Start - wow! Crystal clear sound! A completely different world! Suddenly it was fun to be the DJ !! The next day the sound was dull and mediocre again. The bottom line: SDJ can sound very good! The problem: Sometimes it sounds crystal clear, then again dull. It's after years for me! failed to find a way to reliably start the system with the correct sound quality. Can someone tell whether a standalone device (Prime 2) always delivers the same sound. And how does the Prime 2 sound compared to the Rane / SL?
Never have this issue with SRT and Mojave w/SDJ Pro 2.4.6. Might wanna check your cables my SRT is the same sound i use Hosa XLR cables.
ceedogg13 5:25 PM - 14 July, 2021
i see all these complants about sound quaity , but i never had an issue at all.. Either its live or when i do a mix on mixcloud , my serato is very clear. i just dont understand where all this noise is coming from...
StefanDDJ 6:42 PM - 14 July, 2021
Hi ceedogg13

I am happy if Serato sounds good to you. Could you please tell us about your system? What Hardware do you use? What cabling? How do you start the system? Thank you!
benictrs 8:07 PM - 14 July, 2021
Quote:
i see all these complants about sound quaity , but i never had an issue at all.. Either its live or when i do a mix on mixcloud , my serato is very clear. i just dont understand where all this noise is coming from...

Everybody with it's own ears and opinions .
I heard the other day some kid explaining to somebody that there is NO noticeable diference in his opinion between the youtube rip's and a purchased flac file ...
deejdave 10:27 PM - 14 July, 2021
Quote:
Quote:
i see all these complants about sound quaity , but i never had an issue at all.. Either its live or when i do a mix on mixcloud , my serato is very clear. i just dont understand where all this noise is coming from...

Everybody with it's own ears and opinions .
I heard the other day some kid explaining to somebody that there is NO noticeable diference in his opinion between the youtube rip's and a purchased flac file ...

properly recorded this is often times true. I have seen people say they can hear a difference between a youtube rip and the very same youtube rip converted to FLAC LOL.
nilre 9:54 AM - 15 July, 2021
Quote:
Quote:
i see all these complants about sound quaity , but i never had an issue at all.. Either its live or when i do a mix on mixcloud , my serato is very clear. i just dont understand where all this noise is coming from...

Everybody with it's own ears and opinions .
I heard the other day some kid explaining to somebody that there is NO noticeable diference in his opinion between the youtube rip's and a purchased flac file ...


The biggest decider for perceived audio quality - other than your ears of course - is the gear that reproduces the audio, so the DACs, cables, amps, speakers.

So if the kid you heard is listening to his music through the iPhone speakers or the simple earbuds delivered with it, then he might actually be right. :-)
Hanginon 7:04 PM - 15 July, 2021
Quote:
The biggest decider for perceived audio quality - other than your ears of course - is the gear that reproduces the audio, so the DACs, cables, amps, speakers.

Absolutely - but even there there is a hierarchy. Probably the most critical thing we do is to convert electrical energy back into mechanical energy at the loudspeaker.

I love seeing the endless FLAC vs mp3, or Pioneer controllers vs Reloop controllers, sound discussion's - and then finding out it's being played on the typical two-way 15" loudspeaker on sticks without subs. Makes the former about as important as what mouth wash you're using.
mixgoonie 4:48 PM - 16 July, 2021
But they are still some trends, some people here think (and my ears too) that AutoGain off sound much more close to the original track and has a bit more bass punch that AutoGain on in Serato DJ. To resume it in short words, autogain is slightly killing the dynamics of the track.

I've reported this "issue" to Serato as it is sad to see that in 2021 for a better sound quality, you need to setup your gains manually. Since I prefer sound quality, I do this during my mixing ;)

Your example of Youtube VS Flac can be true if you are using a bassy headphones with killed Med/high frequencies, then of course they don't hear any difference. If you provide them studio headphones, I am nearly sure they will hear the difference ;)
Sony311 10:55 PM - 20 July, 2021
Quote:
But they are still some trends, some people here think (and my ears too) that AutoGain off sound much more close to the original track and has a bit more bass punch that AutoGain on in Serato DJ. To resume it in short words, autogain is slightly killing the dynamics of the track.

I've reported this "issue" to Serato as it is sad to see that in 2021 for a better sound quality, you need to setup your gains manually. Since I prefer sound quality, I do this during my mixing ;)

Your example of Youtube VS Flac can be true if you are using a bassy headphones with killed Med/high frequencies, then of course they don't hear any difference. If you provide them studio headphones, I am nearly sure they will hear the difference ;)



I turn off Auto-Gain and manually do the trim and levels myself. Waaaayyyy better sound.
StefanDDJ 10:27 AM - 21 July, 2021
Hi Sony311, where exactly do you set the gains manually, in the Serato software or only on the DJ controller mixer trim button and leave everything in the software at 12 o'clock?
mixgoonie 1:27 PM - 21 July, 2021
He does probably like me mean the Track gain who are separately setup depending on the track volume.

All my tracks are setup with MP3gain at 95Db so I don't have to play to much as the files are by default around the same volume, I just lower the track gain for the very noisy tracks.
Sony311 12:56 AM - 31 July, 2021
Quote:
Hi Sony311, where exactly do you set the gains manually, in the Serato software or only on the DJ controller mixer trim button and leave everything in the software at 12 o'clock?



I use the trim levels on the controller itself to control the levels....
Sony311 12:56 AM - 31 July, 2021
Quote:
Hi Sony311, where exactly do you set the gains manually, in the Serato software or only on the DJ controller mixer trim button and leave everything in the software at 12 o'clock?



I use the trim levels on the controller itself to control the levels....
mixgoonie 10:30 AM - 31 July, 2021
If you have mp3gain for every track, the trim difference are with that getting minor :)
StefanDDJ 7:48 PM - 9 August, 2021
Macbook Pro 2014, Serato DJ 2.5.6, DDJ-1000SRT
Wow, a really great sound today. Crystal clear. Serato can obviously produce very good sound quality! The big problem is that the sound is great today and bad tomorrow. And I can't figure out what's causing it. I think it is:
- the iTunes integration of the library (I play directly from the iTunes library)
- Wifi problems
- USB problems
- Sound card routing (internal Macbook, DDJ sound card)
However. The sound can be great or miserable.
I don't always manage to get the good sound.
That's a big problem for me. And in the forum I see that I am not alone. The good news is: the controller sounds good, your speakers sound good, Serato sounds good. We just need to figure out why this doesn't always work when we start the system. Forget Serato Support. We have to solve the puzzle ourselves! My start routine:
1. Macbook
2. DDJ - 1000 SRT
3. Loudspeaker
4. Serato DJ (WiFi off)
StefanDDJ 7:48 PM - 9 August, 2021
Macbook Pro 2014, Serato DJ 2.5.6, DDJ-1000SRT
Wow, a really great sound today. Crystal clear. Serato can obviously produce very good sound quality! The big problem is that the sound is great today and bad tomorrow. And I can't figure out what's causing it. I think it is:
- the iTunes integration of the library (I play directly from the iTunes library)
- Wifi problems
- USB problems
- Sound card routing (internal Macbook, DDJ sound card)
However. The sound can be great or miserable.
I don't always manage to get the good sound.
That's a big problem for me. And in the forum I see that I am not alone. The good news is: the controller sounds good, your speakers sound good, Serato sounds good. We just need to figure out why this doesn't always work when we start the system. Forget Serato Support. We have to solve the puzzle ourselves! My start routine:
1. Macbook
2. DDJ - 1000 SRT
3. Loudspeaker
4. Serato DJ (WiFi off)
StefanDDJ 7:48 PM - 9 August, 2021
Macbook Pro 2014, Serato DJ 2.5.6, DDJ-1000SRT
Wow, a really great sound today. Crystal clear. Serato can obviously produce very good sound quality! The big problem is that the sound is great today and bad tomorrow. And I can't figure out what's causing it. I think it is:
- the iTunes integration of the library (I play directly from the iTunes library)
- Wifi problems
- USB problems
- Sound card routing (internal Macbook, DDJ sound card)
However. The sound can be great or miserable.
I don't always manage to get the good sound.
That's a big problem for me. And in the forum I see that I am not alone. The good news is: the controller sounds good, your speakers sound good, Serato sounds good. We just need to figure out why this doesn't always work when we start the system. Forget Serato Support. We have to solve the puzzle ourselves! My start routine:
1. Macbook
2. DDJ - 1000 SRT
3. Loudspeaker
4. Serato DJ (WiFi off)
StefanDDJ 7:53 PM - 9 August, 2021
sorry for the multiple posting :-)
benictrs 10:22 PM - 9 August, 2021
Quote:
Macbook Pro 2014, Serato DJ 2.5.6, DDJ-1000SRT
Wow, a really great sound today. Crystal clear. Serato can obviously produce very good sound quality! The big problem is that the sound is great today and bad tomorrow. And I can't figure out what's causing it. I think it is:
- the iTunes integration of the library (I play directly from the iTunes library)
- Wifi problems
- USB problems
- Sound card routing (internal Macbook, DDJ sound card)
However. The sound can be great or miserable.
I don't always manage to get the good sound.
That's a big problem for me. And in the forum I see that I am not alone. The good news is: the controller sounds good, your speakers sound good, Serato sounds good. We just need to figure out why this doesn't always work when we start the system. Forget Serato Support. We have to solve the puzzle ourselves! My start routine:
1. Macbook
2. DDJ - 1000 SRT
3. Loudspeaker
4. Serato DJ (WiFi off)

Following with interest .
DJ Tecniq 6:06 AM - 10 August, 2021
Quote:
Macbook Pro 2014, Serato DJ 2.5.6, DDJ-1000SRT
Wow, a really great sound today. Crystal clear. Serato can obviously produce very good sound quality! The big problem is that the sound is great today and bad tomorrow. And I can't figure out what's causing it. I think it is:
- the iTunes integration of the library (I play directly from the iTunes library)
- Wifi problems
- USB problems
- Sound card routing (internal Macbook, DDJ sound card)
However. The sound can be great or miserable.
I don't always manage to get the good sound.
That's a big problem for me. And in the forum I see that I am not alone. The good news is: the controller sounds good, your speakers sound good, Serato sounds good. We just need to figure out why this doesn't always work when we start the system. Forget Serato Support. We have to solve the puzzle ourselves! My start routine:
1. Macbook
2. DDJ - 1000 SRT
3. Loudspeaker
4. Serato DJ (WiFi off)
I’m on a 2014 and never had issues with my SRT yet. Maybe it’s your controller or power supply? What OS are you using?
DJ Tecniq 6:10 AM - 10 August, 2021
Def need more info…what output are you using on the SRT?

Master XLR?
Master RCA?

Have you tried diff audio cables?
Are you playing outside or inside?
Have you did a diagnostic test on your Mac for errors?
How many usb devices are connected to your laptop?
Have you considered the controller may be faulty and it’s not the software at fault?

Plenty of situations here but this will help narrow it down that’s the first start to the solution.
Hanginon 12:51 PM - 10 August, 2021
I'd suggest a different starting order -

1. DDJ - 1000 SRT
2. Macbook
3. Serato
4. Speakers (or amp)
Aligan 3:00 PM - 10 August, 2021
Hi 👋
What speaker are you using and how you place it can ruin the sound. Even more if you have some phase inversion.

Cheers 🍻
StefanDDJ 3:51 PM - 10 August, 2021
First of all, thank you very much for your answers. That's very nice and always helps.
Thank you

Macbook Pro 2014, Big Sur 11.3.1, Serato-DJ 2.5.6, DDJ-1000SRT
Master XLR - directly into the active boxes. High quality XLR and USB Cables.
Have you tried diff audio cables? - yes
Are you playing outside or inside? - usually inside
Have you did a diagnostic test on your Mac for errors? - yes
How many usb devices are connected to your laptop? - only the DDJ
Have you considered the controller may be faulty and it’s not the software at fault? - I
think the controller is ok

I suspect some bug in the Macbook - iTunes - Serato DJ constellation !?
I show the iTunes library in Serato and play directly from the iTunes playlists. Since some OS versions, the CPU has also been very high and the Macbook gets very hot. I have to reduce the screen updates per second in SDJ-Setup to the lowest level and increase the audio buffer. Then I have about 25 -28% CPU.
Hanginon 4:55 PM - 10 August, 2021
Intermittent problems are often the most difficult to troubleshoot -

Quote:
Macbook Pro 2014, Serato DJ 2.5.6, DDJ-1000SRT
The big problem is that the sound is great today and bad tomorrow. And I can't figure out what's causing it.

Don't change too many things at the same - you'll start chasing your tail
hvn 8:27 PM - 10 August, 2021
Hi!

I doubt that it's a software problem.

At what kind of locations are you DJ'ing?

And in which area of the world?

And - already questioned above - which speakers are you using?
benictrs 9:42 PM - 11 August, 2021
Quote:

I suspect some bug in the Macbook - iTunes - Serato DJ constellation !?
I show the iTunes library in Serato and play directly from the iTunes playlists. Since some OS versions, the CPU has also been very high and the Macbook gets very hot. I have to reduce the screen updates per second in SDJ-Setup to the lowest level and increase the audio buffer. Then I have about 25 -28% CPU.


So when did you clean the last time the interiors of your laptop ? I mean the heat sink , checked the fans , changed the termal paste beetween the heat sink & cpu/gpu ?
Personaly noticed that when the laptop i am playing tendes to get hotter there can be some audio quality degradation witch is easily followed with dropouts if the temperature of the laptop does not decreases . I'm using smc fan control to keep an eye on the temps and turn up the fans when needed .
DJSCIASCIA 1:29 AM - 12 August, 2021
Quote:
Quote:
I always use Auto Gain, but have it turned down to 89db. Anything else is too hot


Try it completely off on a big system. Set your gains manually on a few tracks to peak top yellow but never red. You'll notice the depth and clarity and punchiness of the music. Regardless of DB setting, AutoGain on lowers SQ.


I can honestly say in my opinion that auto gain does decrease sq. When off I find the sound clearer and punchy as opposed to it being on.
mixgoonie 5:09 AM - 12 August, 2021
And the bass is not compressed :)
AKIEM 7:46 AM - 12 August, 2021
Auto Gain does not process the audio. It sets the Gain to a value according to the perceived loudness curve. The only quality difference is 'loudness'. There should not be any other quality difference, otherwise just changing the gain on the track would change the quality as well.
mixgoonie 8:07 AM - 12 August, 2021
I do not agree, it does process more than you think.

Let's take a stupid example, you have a song of 7 minutes, from 1-4 minutes, there is mainly bass, the track is not loud. Then from 4-6 you have lot of synth and vocal, a loud part and then the last minutes, you have only basses for the outro.

With auto gain, the bass part (less loud part) perceived loudness will not that by different than the loud part of the song.

Without autogain, there is a clear difference in perceived loudness between the bass part and the loud part of the song.

When i am mixing without autogain, i know this means that sometimes, my gain must be higher during the bassy period and i reduce the gain to middle position during the loud part to keep the same perceived loudness.

The best way to see there is some very slight compression with Serato is to compare on loud parts of the song how the bass is so more in the background with autogain on. With AG off the bass remain more present in the background.

So autogain is processing the audio slightly and with a good headphone you can hear it.
AKIEM 8:26 AM - 12 August, 2021
Auto Gain sets the gain, by literally moving the gain dial position. Thats all it does. Its not processor.
DJ Tecniq 12:49 PM - 12 August, 2021
Turn auto gain on at 95db then turn it off…same sound. The only difference is loudness. It does however sound clearer but no real change. At 92db it just sounds watered down cause when you disable autogain it sounds like it’s at 92 or 94db more punchy.
DJ Tecniq 12:50 PM - 12 August, 2021
93*or 94 etc.
docmotion2000 7:28 PM - 12 August, 2021
dj tecniq is this guy here in the forum who has been wrong for years, I check the seratoforum every few months and always have to read nonsense from him.....
mixgoonie 6:07 AM - 13 August, 2021
Quote:
Turn auto gain on at 95db then turn it off…same sound. The only difference is loudness. It does however sound clearer but no real change. At 92db it just sounds watered down cause when you disable autogain it sounds like it’s at 92 or 94db more punchy.


Not true unfortunately, if you set also your track gain high or low you still have more punch with autogain on.

On some controllers the sound spacing is also more natural with autogain off.
StefanDDJ 7:19 AM - 13 August, 2021
Quote:
Quote:
I suspect some bug in the Macbook - iTunes - Serato DJ constellation !?
I show the iTunes library in Serato and play directly from the iTunes playlists. Since some OS versions, the CPU has also been very high and the Macbook gets very hot. I have to reduce the screen updates per second in SDJ-Setup to the lowest level and increase the audio buffer. Then I have about 25 -28% CPU.


So when did you clean the last time the interiors of your laptop ? I mean the heat sink , checked the fans , changed the termal paste beetween the heat sink & cpu/gpu ?
Personaly noticed that when the laptop i am playing tendes to get hotter there can be some audio quality degradation witch is easily followed with dropouts if the temperature of the laptop does not decreases . I'm using smc fan control to keep an eye on the temps and turn up the fans when needed .


Thank you, I will try it.
StefanDDJ 7:28 AM - 13 August, 2021
Quote:
Hi!

I doubt that it's a software problem.

At what kind of locations are you DJ'ing?
mobil DJ everywhere

And in which area of the world?
Europe

And - already questioned above - which speakers are you using?

Active Speaker Systems like Yamaha DSR/DXR, EV ELX 200/EKX -
from the ddj srt with xlr cables directly into the speakers

I use from Macbook a USB Cable by Oyaide
StefanDDJ 7:43 AM - 13 August, 2021
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I always use Auto Gain, but have it turned down to 89db. Anything else is too hot


Try it completely off on a big system. Set your gains manually on a few tracks to peak top yellow but never red. You'll notice the depth and clarity and punchiness of the music. Regardless of DB setting, AutoGain on lowers SQ.


I can honestly say in my opinion that auto gain does decrease sq. When off I find the sound clearer and punchy as opposed to it being on.


all in your opinion! Are you leaving the Serato Track Gain at 12 o'clock? And what do you do with the track gain on the controller, also at 12 o'clock? On my DDJ SRT, the audio is then on the top yellow level, not red.
StefanDDJ 7:50 AM - 13 August, 2021
2 questions please

- why is there no master level display with the DDJ-1000SRT? The support writes because you are using the master level of the controller. But then you could also hide the track level meter and control it completely on the hardware controller?
- why is there a hardware controller track gain and a Serato software track gain in Serato? Which one should i use? Both?
Hanginon 12:43 PM - 13 August, 2021
This Thread is a prime example of why one of the Forums header's reads -
"Mixing the truth with rumor and speculation"
Hanginon 12:43 PM - 13 August, 2021
This Thread is a prime example of why one of the Forums header's reads -
"Mixing the truth with rumor and speculation"
nilre 8:49 PM - 13 August, 2021
Quote:
This Thread is a prime example of why one of the Forums header's reads -
"Mixing the truth with rumor and speculation"


As I understand it the auto gain feature does not process the audio and merely adjusts the gain on your behalf. If this is true, then I don’t see how that can affect sound quality any more than if you manually adjust the gain.

So, someone from Serato — please clarify if this is FUD or fact.
mixgoonie 7:32 AM - 14 August, 2021
Let's take an easy test, take good headphones and listen the track with autogain on and off with the exact Track gain.

Make a blind test and you should hear a difference :)
DJ Tecniq 8:32 AM - 14 August, 2021
Quote:
dj tecniq is this guy here in the forum who has been wrong for years, I check the seratoforum every few months and always have to read nonsense from him.....
Glad to see you’re “woke” thanks Dad 👍🏼
hvn 11:55 AM - 14 August, 2021
Quote:
Quote:
Hi!

I doubt that it's a software problem.

At what kind of locations are you DJ'ing?
mobil DJ everywhere

And in which area of the world?
Europe

And - already questioned above - which speakers are you using?

Active Speaker Systems like Yamaha DSR/DXR, EV ELX 200/EKX -
from the ddj srt with xlr cables directly into the speakers

I use from Macbook a USB Cable by Oyaide

So far, I did not have a look at you DJ name, sorry ... "Europe" and "Stefan" lets me guess, that you are in the "DACH"-region (I live around Bremen, Germany): Thus the power supply should not be a problem (weak fuses, "strange" grounding).

As you are playing in different locations and with varying speaker systems, In my opinion, these are the sources of your sound problems.

Are you using your own speaker systems? Otherwiise, there could be some kind of DSP-setup "wrong" (in the meaning: Otherwisa than you expect it to be.)

And: Are you using the same (master-) level in Serato with the differenz speaker systems? You absolutely should not go into the red levels.

Technically, the Yamaha subs are using bandpass enclosures, which - for me - sound a little bit dull and unprecise, whilst EV seems to use closed enclosures producing more precise sound.

Maybe it's worth looking at these parts, not Serato and/or the laptop.
StefanDDJ 7:46 PM - 14 August, 2021
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hi!

I doubt that it's a software problem.

At what kind of locations are you DJ'ing?
mobil DJ everywhere

And in which area of the world?
Europe

And - already questioned above - which speakers are you using?

Active Speaker Systems like Yamaha DSR/DXR, EV ELX 200/EKX -
from the ddj srt with xlr cables directly into the speakers

I use from Macbook a USB Cable by Oyaide

So far, I did not have a look at you DJ name, sorry ... "Europe" and "Stefan" lets me guess, that you are in the "DACH"-region (I live around Bremen, Germany): Thus the power supply should not be a problem (weak fuses, "strange" grounding).

As you are playing in different locations and with varying speaker systems, In my opinion, these are the sources of your sound problems.

Are you using your own speaker systems? Otherwiise, there could be some kind of DSP-setup "wrong" (in the meaning: Otherwisa than you expect it to be.)

And: Are you using the same (master-) level in Serato with the differenz speaker systems? You absolutely should not go into the red levels.

Technically, the Yamaha subs are using bandpass enclosures, which - for me - sound a little bit dull and unprecise, whilst EV seems to use closed enclosures producing more precise sound.

Maybe it's worth looking at these parts, not Serato and/or the laptop.


You're right. The location and the speakers have a great influence on the sound quality. The effect of the changing sound quality also occurs in the studio. It is of course almost impossible to remotely determine the cause. But there is always valuable information to be found in the discussion. Thank you.
Sony311 12:20 AM - 21 August, 2021
I have found that using Auto gain "Muddies" the sound quality. I no longer use it and just manually adjust the TRIM / Loudness myself.

Way better sound.
Try it.

PS - I work in a club atmosphere where you can really hear the difference.
StefanDDJ 10:59 AM - 21 August, 2021
Quote:
I have found that using Auto gain "Muddies" the sound quality. I no longer use it and just manually adjust the TRIM / Loudness myself.

Way better sound.
Try it.



"I no longer use it and just manually adjust the TRIM / Loudness myself."

Do you adjust the Trim in the Software manually or only with Controller/Mixer-Gain Knobs and let Serato Gain in the 12 Position? Thank you
benictrs 8:49 AM - 24 August, 2021
Quote:
Quote:
I have found that using Auto gain "Muddies" the sound quality. I no longer use it and just manually adjust the TRIM / Loudness myself.

Way better sound.
Try it.



"I no longer use it and just manually adjust the TRIM / Loudness myself."

Do you adjust the Trim in the Software manually or only with Controller/Mixer-Gain Knobs and let Serato Gain in the 12 Position? Thank you

Same here, only that i play weddings & corporate events too. But my private events sound rig sounds better & louder than most the " pandemic club's sound sistems " i have recently played .
But definetly auto gain off , and use mixer in stereo . Found out it alteres radicaly the sound if used in mono .