Blind test - which sounds better? Scratch Live or Serato DJ?

djmallon 3:08 AM - 6 May, 2015

Hey fam,

After talking with the homies and reading various threads on the forum about the supposed quality (or lack thereof) of SDJ vs SSL, I've decided to do a test so you can all judge yourself.

I played clips of two songs using both SDJ & SSL. The same sections of each song was used in the programs. I used internal mode so tracking wasn't an issue.

Song 1: Shiba San - I Like Your Booty (House)
Song 2: Kool & the Gang - Summer Madness (Funk Soul Love!)

Both songs are FLAC files. Full quality for the best comparison.

The songs were played via a Rane Sixty Eight -> XLR out to a separate computer with a Presonus Firestudio Mobile recording at 44.1/16 in Reaper. Saved as a WAV. No editing other than trimming silence on the ends.

Both SSL & SDJ had auto-gain enabled at 93db. Pitches were at zero.

So, which sounds better?

Recording one: www.dropbox.com
Recording two: www.dropbox.com

I'll try my best to keep a tally of the responses, and will reveal which recording is what program after we get some replies!

Cheers,

Mallon

wadup 3:17 AM - 6 May, 2015

Recording TWO sound slightly better to me.

DJ Unique 4:26 AM - 6 May, 2015

Recording 2 is marginally better on highs but sounds much better on lows. It might be that it was recorded a bit louder though.

dj_soo 9:21 AM - 6 May, 2015

yea agree that I prefer #2.

I think a better test would be to utilize a survey type deal for the answers as people could be swayed by the consensus from the responses here.

DJ Irv 2:11 PM - 6 May, 2015

Render B sounds punchier to me.

6 2:19 PM - 6 May, 2015

I like B better... it sounds a little bit louder. I wouldn't say necessarily better as both sound good to me. B just sounds a little bit louder. I'm assuming both were recorded at exactly the same levels and the second one just outputs louder for some reason.

nm

djmallon 2:27 PM - 6 May, 2015

You're right Sixxxx, everything was recorded at the same volume. I literally kept the recording going as I shut down one program and opened the other.

djmallon 2:29 PM - 6 May, 2015

Another question we should consider - if you like X, do you actually dislike Y? Or is that quality fine for live play?

6 2:36 PM - 6 May, 2015

I say both sound the same as far as quality goes. I wouldn't worry about loudness as both can be adjusted via the mixer AND serato DJ doesn't have a main gain knob while SSL does.

So, for me, what people have been saying about SDJ sounding worse than SSL using the same hardware has no merit.

Now, we need someone to do a test maybe with a 62? I would do one with the 64 but the 64 only supports SDJ.

nm

Detroitbootybass 3:43 PM - 6 May, 2015

The B sample appears to sound as if it has a bit of compression versus the A sample.

Thundercat 8:24 PM - 6 May, 2015

Call me the oddball, but I prefer TEST RENDER A. I seems to have a more flat sound. Not flat as in boring, but rather non-colored (coloured for you weirdos across the pond) if that makes sense to you. I can't say for sure without having access to the source material as a reference. And the difference is mostly imperceptible to me to the point where I have to question my sanity for hearing a difference at all.

DjWoody 9:19 PM - 6 May, 2015

B as well. The bass sounds a lot better.

DJMark 9:52 PM - 6 May, 2015

Are you ***absolutely certain*** that ***all*** settings were the same for both files?

Even just listening through an iMac's built-in speakers, I'm hearing what sounds like more bass on "B".

djmallon 10:05 PM - 6 May, 2015

Yes, I didnt touch gains or anything once I started recording. Stopped the recording, split the file into two and saved.

DJMark 10:22 PM - 6 May, 2015

That's actually very discouraging, whichever software is which. I wouldn't expect that at this stage of development we'd be seeing mere SOFTWARE altering the sound so noticeably.

djmallon 10:24 PM - 6 May, 2015

The gain structure between programs could be slightly different - I haven't measured the peaks between the two, so one might be noticeably louder. Just eyeballing the peaks earlier, it looked roughly the same volume between the two though, give or take a couple of db

DJMark 11:41 PM - 6 May, 2015

I've loaded both tracks into a waveform editor, and lining them up sample-by-sample reveals that "B" is around 1db hotter than "A".

However, even after correcting gain differences pretty closely and phase-inverting one, they do not cancel out exactly. What's heard in the "cancellation" is mostly bass.

The two samples don't stay perfectly lined up, indicating a very minor speed difference.

So at least ONE of the samples has somehow been altered in terms of frequency balance...whether a software effect was accidentally left on in one or both samples, or whether the software mix engines of one or both are actually altering the sound, I have no way of knowing.

Code:E 12:34 AM - 7 May, 2015

Quote:

Hey fam,

After talking with the homies and reading various threads on the forum about the supposed quality (or lack thereof) of SDJ vs SSL, I've decided to do a test so you can all judge yourself.

I played clips of two songs using both SDJ & SSL. The same sections of each song was used in the programs. I used internal mode so tracking wasn't an issue.

Song 1: Shiba San - I Like Your Booty (House)
Song 2: Kool & the Gang - Summer Madness (Funk Soul Love!)

Both songs are FLAC files. Full quality for the best comparison.

The songs were played via a Rane Sixty Eight -> XLR out to a separate computer with a Presonus Firestudio Mobile recording at 44.1/16 in Reaper. Saved as a WAV. No editing other than trimming silence on the ends.

Both SSL & SDJ had auto-gain enabled at 93db. Pitches were at zero.

So, which sounds better?

Recording one: www.dropbox.com
Recording two: www.dropbox.com

I'll try my best to keep a tally of the responses, and will reveal which recording is what program after we get some replies!

Cheers,

Mallon

Well you had that all setup I wish you had done some Pitch and Time tests also.

Code:E 12:41 AM - 7 May, 2015

B to me is the "better" one, But maybe no more correct. I would need hours alone with your setup to figure out if A was missing something or if B was adding something. I always assumed serato would edit the sound in some way. I would bet B is serato DJ, and that the increases in highs and lows are built into serato, Maybe some sort of audio enhancement serato did without telling anyone for the amateur dj's out there playing shitty music.

Also If test B is SDJ like i suspect, did you do it with PnT on or off. I know you said you had it set to int, and you had pitch at 0 (i assume) I wouldn't be surprised is PnT is colouring the sound also.

wadup 12:46 AM - 7 May, 2015

Quote:

I would bet B is serato DJ.

I put my money on Scratch Live.....

DJMark 12:58 AM - 7 May, 2015

Quote:

B to me is the "better" one

In any A-B comparison, with all other things equal, "louder" will always sound "better".

And we know for sure that B in this case is about 1dB louder than "A".

6 1:06 AM - 7 May, 2015

Quote:

B to me is the "better" one

In any A-B comparison, with all other things equal, "louder" will always sound "better".

And we know for sure that B in this case is about 1dB louder than "A".

And this tells me in damn good in thinking b sounded a little bit louder. Glad I can trust my ears.

:)

nm

djmallon 2:33 AM - 7 May, 2015

Quote:

Well you had that all setup I wish you had done some Pitch and Time tests also.

I think it's pretty established that Pitch n Time DJ is better than the SSL version of key lock, so I didn't bother doing that.

djmallon 2:34 AM - 7 May, 2015

Sorry, didn't read all the posts. I see you mean colouring the sound.

Both tracks were at 0 pitch, internal mode, with key lock enabled in SSL and SDJ.

DJMark 2:55 AM - 7 May, 2015

Quote:

Both tracks were at 0 pitch, internal mode, with key lock enabled in SSL and SDJ.

Try again with Key Lock off.

AKIEM 3:03 AM - 7 May, 2015

Quote:

Both tracks were at 0 pitch, internal mode, with key lock enabled in SSL and SDJ.

Try again with Key Lock off.

That.

And I think the original track as well as an output from reaper should be included in the test A B C D.

DJMark 4:28 AM - 7 May, 2015

And what SL/SDJ interface was used for this test, and what was used to make the recording?

6 5:30 AM - 7 May, 2015

Quote:

And what SL/SDJ interface was used for this test, and what was used to make the recording?

It's all there on the first post.

nm

DJMark 5:32 AM - 7 May, 2015

Yea saw that after oops nevermind...

6 5:40 AM - 7 May, 2015

Quote:

Yea saw that after oops nevermind...

You might need a blind test of your own. lol

:-P

nm

DJ Art Pumpin Payne 6:41 AM - 7 May, 2015

Hmmm, I think A is not as "warm" as B - A sounds more compressed or "more digital" than B to my old ears. I think B is Scratchlive- sounds better to me (skipped up to Summer Madness for the highs and synths)

A_Jack 6:40 PM - 10 May, 2015

I think A is SSL and B is SDJ… B sounds slightly more compressed/harsh on the mids and highs.

Either way, A sounds better to me.

latindj 5:13 PM - 12 May, 2015

They both pretty much sound the same...and about as good as you can get digitally. Neither comes close to real vinyl though.

Code:E 6:35 PM - 12 May, 2015

Quote:

They both pretty much sound the same...and about as good as you can get digitally

You need better speakers. :p

Col1990 10:35 PM - 12 May, 2015

Recording 2 sounded better

DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 10:41 PM - 12 May, 2015

Quote:

I've loaded both tracks into a waveform editor, and lining them up sample-by-sample reveals that "B" is around 1db hotter than "A".

However, even after correcting gain differences pretty closely and phase-inverting one, they do not cancel out exactly. What's heard in the "cancellation" is mostly bass.

The two samples don't stay perfectly lined up, indicating a very minor speed difference.

So at least ONE of the samples has somehow been altered in terms of frequency balance...whether a software effect was accidentally left on in one or both samples, or whether the software mix engines of one or both are actually altering the sound, I have no way of knowing.

www.djjohnnym.com

DJMark 2:59 AM - 14 May, 2015

Quote:

I've loaded both tracks into a waveform editor, and lining them up sample-by-sample reveals that "B" is around 1db hotter than "A".

However, even after correcting gain differences pretty closely and phase-inverting one, they do not cancel out exactly. What's heard in the "cancellation" is mostly bass.

The two samples don't stay perfectly lined up, indicating a very minor speed difference.

So at least ONE of the samples has somehow been altered in terms of frequency balance...whether a software effect was accidentally left on in one or both samples, or whether the software mix engines of one or both are actually altering the sound, I have no way of knowing.

www.djjohnnym.com

Glad at least one person appreciated that.

Otherwise, a disappointing thread so far.

DJMark 3:01 AM - 14 May, 2015

Quote:

Both tracks were at 0 pitch, internal mode, with key lock enabled in SSL and SDJ.

Try again with Key Lock off.

As I said before, this test really should be re-done with Key Lock off on both Scratch Live and SDJ, to take that variable out of the equation.

Also possible that auto-gain settings in the two apps could be set different, and/or behaving different.

djmallon 3:21 AM - 14 May, 2015

You're welcome to recreate the test with your own variables, I'm unfortunately a little time pressed to do this again in the near future.

latindj 4:24 AM - 14 May, 2015

Quote:

They both pretty much sound the same...and about as good as you can get digitally

You need better speakers. :p

Perhaps. But my point is no one, and I'm referring to our clientele, would really give 2 shits about which sounds better. :)

DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:58 AM - 14 May, 2015

Quote:

I've loaded both tracks into a waveform editor, and lining them up sample-by-sample reveals that "B" is around 1db hotter than "A".

However, even after correcting gain differences pretty closely and phase-inverting one, they do not cancel out exactly. What's heard in the "cancellation" is mostly bass.

The two samples don't stay perfectly lined up, indicating a very minor speed difference.

So at least ONE of the samples has somehow been altered in terms of frequency balance...whether a software effect was accidentally left on in one or both samples, or whether the software mix engines of one or both are actually altering the sound, I have no way of knowing.

www.djjohnnym.com

Glad at least one person appreciated that.

Otherwise, a disappointing thread so far.

I will always appreciate a truly scientific approach...

Joee 12:35 PM - 14 May, 2015

did i miss something here?

when is the original poster going to tell us what A & B is sdj or ssl?

djmallon 2:42 PM - 14 May, 2015

I was hoping for a good sample size before revealing the results. Only got ~10 or so at the moment.

Joee 2:45 PM - 14 May, 2015

Quote:

I was hoping for a good sample size before revealing the results. Only got ~10 or so at the moment.

i havent listened to neither , but considering people say ssl sounds better i'm guessing the better sounding file will be ssl…….if it's sdj thats going to be a big surprise

AKIEM 2:46 PM - 14 May, 2015

My monitors are in the shop.

I would have just put them in the daw and did a noise cancelation anyway.

Detroitbootybass 2:55 PM - 14 May, 2015

Quote:

Glad at least one person appreciated that.

More than just JohnnyM appreciated your analysis, Mark... the rest of us just didn't happen to comment.

:)

I think someone with access to SDJ and SSL should recreate/refine this inquiry with, say, three different tracks that all have different aural qualities.

Code:E 6:47 PM - 14 May, 2015

Quote:

They both pretty much sound the same...and about as good as you can get digitally

You need better speakers. :p

Perhaps. But my point is no one, and I'm referring to our clientele, would really give 2 shits about which sounds better. :)

i want to argue this point with you. But I would loose cause your right.

Quote:

I was hoping for a good sample size before revealing the results. Only got ~10 or so at the moment.

i havent listened to neither , but considering people say ssl sounds better i'm guessing the better sounding file will be ssl…….if it's sdj thats going to be a big surprise

better is a very relative term. They are different from each other. And one clearly has more bass. But I wouldn't call one better over the other with out far more extensive testing on much higher end gear than I currently have in my house. Though I do have demo board for focals new $25000 car audio speakers. With $10,000 worth of amps and signal processing. It's still being broken in. But I should give it a test on there and see what one sounds "better".

The question is. Do I skip the serato box all together and just go in via optical (using the offline player) or use my SL4 and go in analog?

djmallon 6:50 PM - 14 May, 2015

No one's playing (real) gigs with the offline player, so probably best to use the SL4.

DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 6:52 PM - 14 May, 2015

Quote:

My monitors are in the shop.

Yamahas huh?

I knew it...

The Return of Dj Sparky 7:29 PM - 14 May, 2015

you can be sure serato have run tests with oscilloscopes,
from my first use of sdj you could tell the siginal was slightly hotter as none of my settings were changed, i can't really comment too much about the quality difference as i dont use SDJ, but they know there is a differnence in the signal wheather or not the quality is better worse is up for debate you can be sure they have run a few tests but don't disclose the results and played ignorent when the issue was first raised

AKIEM 7:34 PM - 14 May, 2015

Quote:

My monitors are in the shop.

Yamahas huh?

I knew it...

Yup. First one went then the other. But thats 16 years of use. $80 repair.

DJMark 12:36 AM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

They both pretty much sound the same...and about as good as you can get digitally

You need better speakers. :p

Perhaps. But my point is no one, and I'm referring to our clientele, would really give 2 shits about which sounds better. :)

Audio quality, from a business viewpoint, is largely NOT about whether customers overtly notice something.

The absence of irritations (including audio degradation of various types) gives a better experience whether a single person "notices" anything or not.

As far as SL/SDJ, my expectation 30+ years into the "digital audio era" is that neither of them should by default be coloring the sound in any way. Any change between the raw source and the output (with no effects/volume/tone-control changes, obviously) should be regarded as a product defect.

6 1:14 AM - 15 May, 2015

A product defect if the change isn't meant to be an "improvement" of some sort.

nm

DJMark 1:58 AM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

A product defect if the change isn't meant to be an "improvement" of some sort.

nm

There shouldn't be any attempt at "improvement", it's either bit-for-bit accurate or it isn't.

SL/SDJ shouldn't be "processing" the audio in any way at all, unless effects/pitch change/etc. are being used.

AKIEM 2:11 AM - 15 May, 2015

Yup

latindj 3:51 AM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

They both pretty much sound the same...and about as good as you can get digitally

You need better speakers. :p

Perhaps. But my point is no one, and I'm referring to our clientele, would really give 2 shits about which sounds better. :)

Audio quality, from a business viewpoint, is largely NOT about whether customers overtly notice something.

The absence of irritations (including audio degradation of various types) gives a better experience whether a single person "notices" anything or not.

As far as SL/SDJ, my expectation 30+ years into the "digital audio era" is that neither of them should by default be coloring the sound in any way. Any change between the raw source and the output (with no effects/volume/tone-control changes, obviously) should be regarded as a product defect.

But you're looking at it from an audiophile perspective. Of course you want the best possible sound. But when comparing SDJ vs SSl, in their current state, I bet not one of your bride and grooms, drunk club hoes, uncle joe or groupie would be devastated by which platform you choose to employ, as the difference in sound is not so great. That was my point.

AKIEM 4:05 AM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

They both pretty much sound the same...and about as good as you can get digitally

You need better speakers. :p

Perhaps. But my point is no one, and I'm referring to our clientele, would really give 2 shits about which sounds better. :)

Audio quality, from a business viewpoint, is largely NOT about whether customers overtly notice something.

The absence of irritations (including audio degradation of various types) gives a better experience whether a single person "notices" anything or not.

As far as SL/SDJ, my expectation 30+ years into the "digital audio era" is that neither of them should by default be coloring the sound in any way. Any change between the raw source and the output (with no effects/volume/tone-control changes, obviously) should be regarded as a product defect.

But you're looking at it from an audiophile perspective. Of course you want the best possible sound. But when comparing SDJ vs SSl, in their current state, I bet not one of your bride and grooms, drunk club hoes, uncle joe or groupie would be devastated by which platform you choose to employ, as the difference in sound is not so great. That was my point.

And probably not for recording either... but there's the slippery slope...

6 4:24 AM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

A product defect if the change isn't meant to be an "improvement" of some sort.

nm

There shouldn't be any attempt at "improvement", it's either bit-for-bit accurate or it isn't.

SL/SDJ shouldn't be "processing" the audio in any way at all, unless effects/pitch change/etc. are being used.

But, how do you know which one of the two is "processing" the sound?

For all you know, SSL might have been "inaccurate" (We just didn't know it) and now SDJ is more "accurate".

nm

dj_soo 5:10 AM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

I was hoping for a good sample size before revealing the results. Only got ~10 or so at the moment.

still think you should retry without the public results during the test.

To do a true "blind" test, the sample base shouldn't be seeing each other's responses as that can unintentionally or intentionally influence people's choices.

Hell, might as well throw in traktor in there as a control

DJMark 10:13 AM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

But, how do you know which one of the two is "processing" the sound?

As I said already, I don't.

I hope neither one is ("processing" the sound).

DJMark 10:26 AM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

But you're looking at it from an audiophile perspective. Of course you want the best possible sound. But when comparing SDJ vs SSl, in their current state, I bet not one of your bride and grooms, drunk club hoes, uncle joe or groupie would be devastated by which platform you choose to employ, as the difference in sound is not so great. That was my point.

Yeah but you seem to have missed my point...which had NOTHING to do with either an audiophile perspective or my own personal taste as far as sound:

"Audio quality, from a business viewpoint, is largely NOT about whether customers overtly notice something.

The absence of irritations (including audio degradation of various types) gives a better experience whether a single person "notices" anything or not."

Perhaps I should have continued on and said "better experience = more likely to spend more time in the venue and more likely to remember it well and want to return".

Dancefloor behavior is affected by a lot of factors that many people don't likely notice consciously, including sound quality.

Mr Wilks 2:15 PM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

Dancefloor behavior is affected by a lot of factors that many people don't likely notice consciously, including sound quality.

I play in a club once a week (Tuesdays) that truly is the worst system I've ever heard in any club ever... and that's an understatement.

People voted with their feet as it sounds like a kettle drum being banged for 8 hours. The system has zero bass and wiggling the output XLR cables "may" add the missing channel but it's random.

It's a fun night but ruins my ears and noticed people have wandered off and stopped coming now. Oh well...

Mr Wilks 2:21 PM - 15 May, 2015

As for the test, I'll listen later through the HD25 cans and see what it sounds like.

Turning off Pitch 'n Time in the plugin setup 'could' make a difference. Even setting it at zero can colour the sound with the plugin turned on.

I think this thread opens up the notion of a software roundup.

Mixvibes, Traktor, Djay, Mixx, Decadance & Ableton could all be included too and this would be a very interesting twist once we know the SDJ vs SSL outcome.

Mr Wilks 2:41 PM - 15 May, 2015

My ears are ruined :(

I think B sounds a little 'brighter'. I'll have to test again.

Lightning 2:51 PM - 15 May, 2015

My vote is on B as well... sounded much different on my vintage PA system

latindj 3:28 PM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

But you're looking at it from an audiophile perspective. Of course you want the best possible sound. But when comparing SDJ vs SSl, in their current state, I bet not one of your bride and grooms, drunk club hoes, uncle joe or groupie would be devastated by which platform you choose to employ, as the difference in sound is not so great. That was my point.

Yeah but you seem to have missed my point...which had NOTHING to do with either an audiophile perspective or my own personal taste as far as sound:

"Audio quality, from a business viewpoint, is largely NOT about whether customers overtly notice something.

The absence of irritations (including audio degradation of various types) gives a better experience whether a single person "notices" anything or not."

Perhaps I should have continued on and said "better experience = more likely to spend more time in the venue and more likely to remember it well and want to return".

Dancefloor behavior is affected by a lot of factors that many people don't likely notice consciously, including sound quality.

I understand and appreciate your point, believe me I do. All I'm saying is playing out with either software at this time won't have much, if any, influence over the typical crowd, in my application. Your mileage may vary...

Mr Wilks 4:24 PM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

But you're looking at it from an audiophile perspective. Of course you want the best possible sound. But when comparing SDJ vs SSl, in their current state, I bet not one of your bride and grooms, drunk club hoes, uncle joe or groupie would be devastated by which platform you choose to employ, as the difference in sound is not so great. That was my point.

Yeah but you seem to have missed my point...which had NOTHING to do with either an audiophile perspective or my own personal taste as far as sound:

"Audio quality, from a business viewpoint, is largely NOT about whether customers overtly notice something.

The absence of irritations (including audio degradation of various types) gives a better experience whether a single person "notices" anything or not."

Perhaps I should have continued on and said "better experience = more likely to spend more time in the venue and more likely to remember it well and want to return".

Dancefloor behavior is affected by a lot of factors that many people don't likely notice consciously, including sound quality.

I understand and appreciate your point, believe me I do. All I'm saying is playing out with either software at this time won't have much, if any, influence over the typical crowd, in my application. Your mileage may vary...

Also the variables in club systems play a big part from setup to EQ to system manufacturer to processing to installation to... well it goes on.

In a club environment it really wouldn't have any impact as there's way too many variables.

I even think recording at home for podcasts can even vary. From memory the SX is mixed in hardware while some controllers are mixed in software (Twitch?).

It's a total minefield!

d:raf 4:40 PM - 15 May, 2015

Wouldn't "hi-fi resampling" be considered "signal processing"? There's been a checkbox in SSL for it for a looooooong time now...

6 6:29 PM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

Wouldn't "hi-fi resampling" be considered "signal processing"? There's been a checkbox in SSL for it for a looooooong time now...

This

nm

The Return of Dj Sparky 6:43 PM - 15 May, 2015

according to this even when its off it's using a simpler version of it,

serato.com

and i'm guessing sdj has it aswell just not a option to change anything anymore

6 7:24 PM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

according to this even when its off it's using a simpler version of it,

serato.com

and i'm guessing sdj has it aswell just not a option to change anything anymore

Kinda like how there's no main gain knob on the SDJ software.

nm

6 7:27 PM - 15 May, 2015

Either way, this thread was created because some people have claimed that SDJ sounds horrible (and I think the word horrible has been used as well as other words) in comparison to SSL.

It's safe to say that it doesn't sound horrible and I would go as far as saying that the sounds of both is great however the small difference may be between the two comparisons heard here.

nm

6 7:28 PM - 15 May, 2015

So, I'm thinking any problem people may have with SDJ regarding its sound quality may be due to a different hardware used other than the one tested here (68) and possibly other computer configurations.

nm

Mr Wilks 8:17 PM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

So, I'm thinking any problem people may have with SDJ regarding its sound quality may be due to a different hardware used other than the one tested here (68) and possibly other computer configurations.

nm

I've always blamed hardware too. The manufacturer's various components make it too variable.

I have an SX, AMX, Twitch and an SL3 and can notice a very slight difference in the clubs. It's small but it's there.

DJMark 8:50 PM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

Wouldn't "hi-fi resampling" be considered "signal processing"? There's been a checkbox in SSL for it for a looooooong time now...

The hi-fi resampler should have no affect on sound if playback is at 0% pitch adjustment.

Joee 9:00 PM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

The hi-fi resampler should have no affect on sound if playback is at 0% pitch adjustment.

doesn't it only affect sound when scratching?

AKIEM 9:02 PM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

The hi-fi resampler should have no affect on sound if playback is at 0% pitch adjustment.

doesn't it only affect sound when scratching?

Yup

DJMark 10:14 PM - 15 May, 2015

Quote:

The hi-fi resampler should have no affect on sound if playback is at 0% pitch adjustment.

doesn't it only affect sound when scratching?

Yup

I believe that the hi-fi resampler affects all playback at non 0% pitch (of course including scratching).

Any pitch change involves what is in effect real-time sample-rate conversion, and the "hi fi" thing was an improved SRC algorithm. I think the reason it was made a checkbox is that it used a bit more CPU.

WarpNote 9:32 AM - 16 May, 2015

To be honest,
I think both renders are really close, as for one that actually use PnT all the time, I'm glad you left it on. I brought both renders into Ableton, raised track A by 0.8 db, to better match levels. I turned off warping. Track A felt more dynamic to me, while track B might have some compression going on? Track B felt punchier, not really sure which i would prefer, I guess both should work well in the club. Do the transients on track B feel a little harsh/pinching? Might be my imagination.

Maybe track A would feel better on a high end stereo? I'm not sure, I'm listening through studio monitors and a set of beyer dynamic custom studio headphones. Assuming reason others like track B for club use, as they want a punchier sound.

My guess would be that Track A is SSL, Track B is SDJ, but what do I know...

Code:E 5:41 PM - 16 May, 2015

Quote:

Maybe track A would feel better on a high end stereo?

I wonder this too.

Quote:

My guess would be that Track A is SSL, Track B is SDJ,

And I think that this is ture also. I would assume serato has taken into condiseration where and when DJ's play. And the Kinds of stereo's they play on. So the minor extra punch, that we hear on the B recoding might be there to help your tracks come alive on shitty PA's. Where A is more reference.

Though I wouldn't be surpirsed if we where all excatly wrong.

DJ Val-BKNY11203 8:05 PM - 16 May, 2015

So.....does this get added to the failed post thread?

WarpNote 8:07 PM - 16 May, 2015

Give it some time, its only been 10 days. Mallon has always delivered in the past.

djmallon 8:22 PM - 16 May, 2015

Don't know how this is a fail lol. I have a little spreadsheet going with votes. After this long weekend I'll say what is what.

Thundercat 9:20 PM - 16 May, 2015

Will be interesting to see if I (and a couple other oddballs) need to rethink my production environment and/or reference material. Can't wait

Niro 9:21 PM - 16 May, 2015

Mallon, this is definitely not a fail and awesome that you took the time to do it. I think it does come into the equation, especially when something is so close, other peoples' opinion will help dictate the way someone decides. Shoot actually even if it wasn't close, some people can be talked into something. Then there's the opposite where some people will automatically choose the other/non popular choice. As much as people will say how much other peoples opinion affects their own, it does.

Niro 9:22 PM - 16 May, 2015

I forgot to put a smiley face. :)

AKIEM 9:23 PM - 16 May, 2015

:)

6 9:40 PM - 16 May, 2015

Quote:

So.....does this get added to the failed post thread?

I think your life should be added to the failed life thread. lol

nm

DJ Val-BKNY11203 7:36 AM - 17 May, 2015

Quote:

So.....does this get added to the failed post thread?

I think your life should be added to the failed life thread. lol

nm

For once it seems as though you are 100% right.

DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:45 PM - 17 May, 2015

Quote:

So.....does this get added to the failed post thread?

I think your life should be added to the failed life thread. lol

nm

For once it seems as though you are 100% right.

Booooooo......

tadW 6:05 PM - 17 May, 2015

Hey guys, I'm gonna chime in although can't compare SSL and SDJ directly myself sound-wise but think it doesn't matter much. I've been using Traktor for over 10 years and only recently got into SDJ when AMX was introduced. Been sifting thru posts on the forum just to get a notion what the issues are and all and found it real funny many people are slagging off sdj for sounding shit without putting sound samples clearly showing it. These are quite big claims so why not give RMS, peak, eq spectral voodoo readings whatever could prove or point to that. Mind plays tricks, blind tests usually straighten out these claims so credit to djmallon for having a crack at it. SDJ sounds sweet to me, some guys here could spend more time playing nice tunes having fun and relax a bit :)

deejdave 9:43 PM - 17 May, 2015

Quote:

So.....does this get added to the failed post thread?

I think your life should be added to the failed life thread. lol

nm

For once it seems as though you are 100% right.

Rarely see such an admission of defeat. Things can't be that bad............

DJ Val-BKNY11203 12:28 AM - 18 May, 2015

Quote:

So.....does this get added to the failed post thread?

I think your life should be added to the failed life thread. lol

nm

For once it seems as though you are 100% right.

Rarely see such an admission of defeat. Things can't be that bad............

Actually things are great. I just have to do my part to let the children feel good about themselves from time to time.

Joee 12:42 AM - 18 May, 2015

Quote:

Actually things are great. I just have to do my part to let the children feel good about themselves from time to time.

s193.photobucket.com

deejdave 12:46 AM - 18 May, 2015

Quote:

So.....does this get added to the failed post thread?

I think your life should be added to the failed life thread. lol

nm

For once it seems as though you are 100% right.

Rarely see such an admission of defeat. Things can't be that bad............

Actually things are great. I just have to do my part to let the children feel good about themselves from time to time.

Hah well that's understandable indeed.

AKIEM 12:50 AM - 18 May, 2015

lol

nm

DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:12 AM - 18 May, 2015

Quote:

So.....does this get added to the failed post thread?

I think your life should be added to the failed life thread. lol

nm

For once it seems as though you are 100% right.

Rarely see such an admission of defeat. Things can't be that bad............

Actually things are great. I just have to do my part to let the children feel good about themselves from time to time.

lmao....Classic...

DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:13 AM - 18 May, 2015

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about...

The QUALITY of the jokes and jabs is on an Upswing...

Please continue...

Kofi246 7:40 PM - 18 May, 2015

really interested to hear the results

Mr Wilks 8:06 PM - 18 May, 2015

So to push my vote forward if say SDJ is number two With SSL being the other (obviously).

djmallon 9:11 PM - 19 May, 2015

So most people said they like sample B - could this be because it's 1db louder and we subconsciously like louder things? Or confirmation bias cause everyone else seemed to like it? Or is it actually better?

I personally don't feel there's some huge difference between the two samples.

Anyways...

Recording A is Serato DJ 1.7.5
Recording B is Serato Scratch Live 2.5

Thanks guys.

Mallon

AKIEM 9:16 PM - 19 May, 2015

I think people said B was Better because of the letter B.

WarpNote 9:25 PM - 19 May, 2015

Quote:

I personally don't feel there's some huge difference between the two samples.

Agree, Thats why I wrote

Quote:

To be honest,
I think both renders are really close

&

Quote:

not really sure which i would prefer, I guess both should work well in the club.

I think the choice of mixer (Rane/Pio/AH etc) and the sound system itself,
will be far more critical factors.

6 9:39 PM - 19 May, 2015

Quote:

I like B better... it sounds a little bit louder. I wouldn't say necessarily better as both sound good to me. B just sounds a little bit louder. I'm assuming both were recorded at exactly the same levels and the second one just outputs louder for some reason.

nm

Quote:

So most people said they like sample B - could this be because it's 1db louder and we subconsciously like louder things? Or confirmation bias cause everyone else seemed to like it? Or is it actually better?

I personally don't feel there's some huge difference between the two samples.

Anyways...

Recording A is Serato DJ 1.7.5
Recording B is Serato Scratch Live 2.5

Thanks guys.

Mallon

Thanks Mallon for doing this test!

nm

DJ Art Pumpin Payne 9:47 PM - 19 May, 2015

Recording B is Serato Scratch Live 2.5

Quote:

Hmmm, I think A is not as "warm" as B - A sounds more compressed or "more digital" than B to my old ears. I think B is Scratchlive- sounds better to me

WarpNote 9:49 PM - 19 May, 2015

Quote:

Thanks Mallon for doing this test!

+1

Mr. Goodkat 12:08 AM - 20 May, 2015

Quote:

Hey guys, I'm gonna chime in although can't compare SSL and SDJ directly myself sound-wise but think it doesn't matter much. I've been using Traktor for over 10 years and only recently got into SDJ when AMX was introduced. Been sifting thru posts on the forum just to get a notion what the issues are and all and found it real funny many people are slagging off sdj for sounding shit without putting sound samples clearly showing it. These are quite big claims so why not give RMS, peak, eq spectral voodoo readings whatever could prove or point to that. Mind plays tricks, blind tests usually straighten out these claims so credit to djmallon for having a crack at it. SDJ sounds sweet to me, some guys here could spend more time playing nice tunes having fun and relax a bit :)

dont sweat the sdj haters

Quote:

So most people said they like sample B - could this be because it's 1db louder and we subconsciously like louder things? Or confirmation bias cause everyone else seemed to like it? Or is it actually better?

ive been trying to say this. go to 2.33 and its quieter than 2.5.

personally 2.33 sounds the best to me, but of course, you have to turn it up. (i only used 2.33 because i used it until 2.5 and i could tell the difference back then. its 1db from each jump, almost)

Thundercat 3:30 AM - 20 May, 2015

Good stuff! Maybe I'll give SDJ some love at my next monthly if I get my MKII by then.

Code:E 6:16 AM - 20 May, 2015

Quote:

I personally don't feel there's some huge difference between the two samples.

Agree, Thats why I wrote

Quote:

To be honest,
I think both renders are really close

&

Quote:

not really sure which i would prefer, I guess both should work well in the club.

I think the choice of mixer (Rane/Pio/AH etc) and the sound system itself,
will be far more critical factors.

That last part nailed it. The difference is minor, and the difference between a pioneer mixer and a Rane is greater than this difference I think.

A_Jack 1:55 PM - 20 May, 2015

Good test. This shows that there is no major difference between the two. Recording A still sounds better to me though as it seems more transparent.

Entro 4:24 PM - 27 May, 2015

First off, BIG THANKS to DJ Mallon for putting together this test. (Excellent song choice too).

I'm inclined to agree with him that there is no dramatic difference between the two recordings. B may be a touch louder, but listening through a nice set of headphones I was hard pressed to find any difference in "quality".

More importantly: I highly, highly doubt that people in a club or bar would notice ANY difference at all.

6 4:39 PM - 27 May, 2015

Quote:

First off, BIG THANKS to DJ Mallon for putting together this test. (Excellent song choice too).

I'm inclined to agree with him that there is no dramatic difference between the two recordings. B may be a touch louder, but listening through a nice set of headphones I was hard pressed to find any difference in "quality".

More importantly: I highly, highly doubt that people in a club or bar would notice ANY difference at all.

Exactly

nm

deejdave 10:34 PM - 27 May, 2015

I have to agree which is why I am so skeptical when I hear people trashing on the sound of SDJ. I understand there "may" be a difference but it is minimal and overall both sound good. Furthermore I have said it before and will say it again. The advantages and capabilities gained by SDJ FAAAAAAAR outweigh the barely there sound superiority of SSL.

Just my angle.

6 11:47 PM - 27 May, 2015

Quote:

I have to agree which is why I am so skeptical when I hear people trashing on the sound of SDJ. I understand there "may" be a difference but it is minimal and overall both sound good. Furthermore I have said it before and will say it again. The advantages and capabilities gained by SDJ FAAAAAAAR outweigh the barely there sound superiority of SSL.

Just my angle.

I'm thinking the people who are talking trash about the sound are using different hardware. That's why I'm curious to see what these people are using.

nm

deejdave 12:23 AM - 28 May, 2015

Could be. On the other hand these same people are hesitant to purchase new hardware for SDJ being the sound is "inferior" in their opinion. I am a big fan of all Rane hardware but I can't help but think many of the issues from the early days til now with SDJ have been with SSL gear. I know for fact I had some minor glitches with my 62 and SDJ but have not with my 64 and I don't think the fact that it was built for SDJ hurts at all.

6 2:20 AM - 28 May, 2015

I agree though the 57 mk2 was built for SDJ and it has some issues.

nm

deejdave 2:25 AM - 28 May, 2015

That is certainly true as well............ could be just a coincidence but I'd be willing to bet the 57MKII issues get fixed and real quick while the legacy products keep their detrimental baggage for the long run :(

6 2:29 AM - 28 May, 2015

Quote:

That is certainly true as well............ could be just a coincidence but I'd be willing to bet the 57MKII issues get fixed and real quick while the legacy products keep their detrimental baggage for the long run :(

Probably so. I'm also thinking other SDJ issues could be non-Rane hardware related. I don't know. For all the stuff I heard about people complaining about sound, I haven't seen or heard rather a single actual example. Makes me wonder why.

nm

deejdave 2:29 AM - 28 May, 2015

As an example the DDJ-SZ sensitivity issues may easily be the worst in both quantity and severity in terms of issues and it was handled both swiftly and properly. Furthermore the performance is now considered an upgrade from what it was intended to be. SELDOM are issues handled quite like this but even seeing progress in a timely fashion is nice.

deejdave 2:30 AM - 28 May, 2015

Quote:

For all the stuff I heard about people complaining about sound, I haven't seen or heard rather a single actual example. Makes me wonder why.

I haven't really seen any real trends or constants myself other than the fact they were all using native SSL devices by default.

DJMark 2:39 AM - 28 May, 2015

My only issue is that neither software should be changing the sound at all, unless I specifically adjust something for that purpose.

At 0% pitch and unity gain, the output from the software should be bit-for-bit identical to what's in the source file.

Any other result is a product defect.

Detroitbootybass 2:25 PM - 28 May, 2015

Quote:

My only issue is that neither software should be changing the sound at all, unless I specifically adjust something for that purpose.

At 0% pitch and unity gain, the output from the software should be bit-for-bit identical to what's in the source file.

Any other result is a product defect.

I 100% agree.

Entro 2:36 PM - 28 May, 2015

Quote:

At 0% pitch and unity gain, the output from the software should be bit-for-bit identical to what's in the source file.

Totally agree, but in this test the only really noticeable difference is that SSL has an ever-so-slightly hotter record output than SDJ, yes? The software may still be producing a bit-for-bit identical signal to the source file, just with a different record output gain.

djmallon 2:49 PM - 28 May, 2015

Quote:

Totally agree, but in this test the only really noticeable difference is that SSL has an ever-so-slightly hotter record output than SDJ, yes?

In all honesty, I don't even think that SSL has a hotter output. I probably goofed somewhere, accidentally brought my gain or master record level up ever so slightly and didn't realize.

AKIEM 3:29 PM - 28 May, 2015

Quote:

Totally agree, but in this test the only really noticeable difference is that SSL has an ever-so-slightly hotter record output than SDJ, yes?

In all honesty, I don't even think that SSL has a hotter output. I probably goofed somewhere, accidentally brought my gain or master record level up ever so slightly and didn't realize.

Lol

6 4:46 PM - 28 May, 2015

What if SSL did have a slightly hotter output and Serato realized this and corrected it with SDJ. So, all this years you've been bamboozled and didn't even know it.

lol

nm

AKIEM 4:58 PM - 28 May, 2015

Quote:

What if SSL did have a slightly hotter output and Serato realized this and corrected it with SDJ. So, all this years you've been bamboozled and didn't even know it.

lol

nm

Possible, but that probably would have shown in those other tests we did - was a long time ago tho.

If the level was lowered for a reason - could be for a little headroom for effects or something. Or maybe its nothing.

DJMark 10:19 PM - 28 May, 2015

Quote:

At 0% pitch and unity gain, the output from the software should be bit-for-bit identical to what's in the source file.

Totally agree, but in this test the only really noticeable difference is that SSL has an ever-so-slightly hotter record output than SDJ, yes?

NO. As I and several others pointed out, the second file (apparently from SL 2.5) had noticeably more bass as well as being around 1dB hotter. I lined up the two samples in a waveform editor, gain-matched and phase-inverted one, and the "cancellation" was mostly bass.

6 10:33 PM - 28 May, 2015

So like I said, maybe they realized they should have zero change in audio and they fixed this in SDJ so you've been bamboozled for how many years now thinking that SSL had untouched sound?

nm

AKIEM 10:38 PM - 28 May, 2015

Which is exactly why we also needed the raw file...

DJMark 11:21 PM - 28 May, 2015

Quote:

So like I said, maybe they realized they should have zero change in audio and they fixed this in SDJ so you've been bamboozled for how many years now thinking that SSL had untouched sound?

If you read what I wrote earlier, I left open that possibility.

I have very little free time, but I'm tempted to repeat and expand on this type of testing under more controlled circumstances. It's clear that despite good intentions, this particular test probably wasn't quite "scientific" enough.

AKIEM 12:08 AM - 29 May, 2015

Quote:

So like I said, maybe they realized they should have zero change in audio and they fixed this in SDJ so you've been bamboozled for how many years now thinking that SSL had untouched sound?

If you read what I wrote earlier, I left open that possibility.

I have very little free time, but I'm tempted to repeat and expand on this type of testing under more controlled circumstances. It's clear that despite good intentions, this particular test probably wasn't quite "scientific" enough.

Thanks tho, more than most people are doing / have done.

Entro 12:35 AM - 29 May, 2015

Quote:

NO. As I and several others pointed out, the second file (apparently from SL 2.5) had noticeably more bass as well as being around 1dB hotter.

Is that a good thing? Like 6 said, maybe SSL wasn't reproducing sound 100 per cent accurately and SDJ now has a flatter, accurate response. I would rather have a flat curve than "more bass", but who really knows?

I think the point is that to hear some people describe it, they made it seem like SDJ sounds like a 96 kbps MP3 and SSL sounds like a WAV file in comparison.

For me, this test (however "unscientific" it was) put those fears to rest. And again, big ups to Mallon for taking the trouble.

6 1:01 AM - 29 May, 2015

" I think the point is that to hear some people describe it, they made it seem like SDJ sounds like a 96 kbps MP3 and SSL sounds like a WAV file in comparison."

This

nm

6 1:01 AM - 29 May, 2015

" For me, this test (however "unscientific" it was) put those fears to rest. And again, big ups to Mallon for taking the trouble. "

This

nm

6 1:01 AM - 29 May, 2015

" I have very little free time, but I'm tempted to repeat and expand on this type of testing under more controlled circumstances. It's clear that despite good intentions, this particular test probably wasn't quite "scientific" enough. "

and please do if you can. The community will thank you.

nm

dj_task 2:45 AM - 23 June, 2016

hi all, wondering if the current version of sdj is sounding more musical, and less digital/harsh, closer to ssl quality?

xtoph 11:22 PM - 13 August, 2016

Used Serato DJ (1.8.1 - SL3) at my club last night for the first time. Always played with SSL before. I had never heard or read that there was a difference, but I started noticing (from the DJ booth) that the sound seemed more crisp and then the boss came and said the treble hurt his ears tonight, the sound was screechy. We turned the treble for both channels from 12 o'clock to about 10 o'clock, then it was acceptable. Never had to do this with SSL (always played with bass, mids and treble set to 12 o'clock), so there seems to be a very noticable difference in sound quality.

ninjagaijin 1:50 PM - 13 December, 2018

Quote:

Used Serato DJ (1.8.1 - SL3) at my club last night for the first time. Always played with SSL before. I had never heard or read that there was a difference, but I started noticing (from the DJ booth) that the sound seemed more crisp and then the boss came and said the treble hurt his ears tonight, the sound was screechy. We turned the treble for both channels from 12 o'clock to about 10 o'clock, then it was acceptable. Never had to do this with SSL (always played with bass, mids and treble set to 12 o'clock), so there seems to be a very noticable difference in sound quality.

Check if your tracks are internally redlining in Serato DJ. 'Clipping' in SDJ is 'normal' for super loud club tracks. Same for SSL, but it was more forgiving - when redlining in SSL internally, you'd get a decent saturation sound. Redlining in SSL screeches/treble tears. It's attrocious.

It seems SDJ Pro has fixed all that at least, but it is still too confusing and too much going on for me compared to SSL. I also have a 9 year old laptop so I am sure SSL is going to work, SDJP being a new version/product, with regular bug fixes, I am not so sure it will last me through a set without bugging out. I might try it one time but it's glad to hear SDJ has been dropped like the crap it is.

The Return of Dj Sparky 4:54 PM - 13 December, 2018

2 years late to the party , those ninja skills must make time stop for you

DJ Intrigue 5:00 PM - 13 December, 2018

Rane 72 sounds best.

DJ Intrigue 10:07 PM - 13 December, 2018

Quote:

2 years late to the party , those ninja skills must make time stop for you

Shut the Fuck UP Sparky you little bitch. Your fucking trash breh, eat a dick and die wont ya?

Mr. Goodkat 10:16 PM - 13 December, 2018

these replies are just not up to aptidda standards, i feel like this is maybe a group at inmusic with time on their hands. which would make sense since inmusic is hot garbage

The Return of Dj Sparky 11:06 PM - 16 December, 2018

Quote:

2 years late to the party , those ninja skills must make time stop for you

Shut the Fuck UP Sparky you little bitch. Your fucking trash breh, eat a dick and die wont ya?

Em.... No

Culprit 3:10 AM - 20 December, 2018

yeah just report it so he can get banned again

577er 3:19 AM - 20 December, 2018

I'm starting to think it's Russian teenagers... if not Russian, maybe Albanian?

DJ Intrigue 4:15 PM - 20 December, 2018

Quote:

I'm starting to think it's Russian teenagers... if not Russian, maybe Albanian?

No, Muslim Iranian. Get it right or pay the price.

577er 4:49 PM - 20 December, 2018

At least we have confirmed the teenager part is correct.

DJing Discussion

Blind test - which sounds better? Scratch Live or Serato DJ?

Blind test - which sounds better? Scratch Live or Serato DJ?

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