In the meantime I am completely rebuilding new crates from scratch, I'll report back (no itunes ever)

Hi Joshua Carl

could you point me at those dead-end help tickets please? i would like to see where they went and if there is something i can do.

- Are you inside the "All… crate" when trying to delete a file?
- Does it make a difference if you try with an older version of Scratch Live?
- What happens when you use Serato DJ (offline player)

- can you also try the following:
make a new crate
put some songs from your external drive in there
- delete the new crate.
is the .crate file in the trash now?
Does the crate remain deleted after restarting Scratch Live, or does it come back, unwanted?


Can you verify this still worked correct at least once after the last OS X update you made?

Cheers
Karl Y

serato.com

serato.com

serato.com

serato.com

serato.com (this one offers a bit of a sultion, but as some reported, the backup folder trick only seems to work for so long)

serato.com

I dont really have a ton of free time to go digging for every post I read last week,
but this post seems to have the most people chiming in with an idential problem:
serato.com

as you can see a combination of all the solutions allowed me to delete files again.
where it would seem a new installation of 2.5 was the final action.

while this in fact put a nice band-aid on it (for how long though)
the reason i bring it up, and I for a solution, not a "work-a-round" is with 2.5 being the final release, (sans any bug fixes) I didnt want this bug to go unaddressed if a maintenance release of SSL should come out before the end date of the software.

Thank you Karl

Hi Joshua Carl,

i'm currently investigating this but i can't reproduce it.
The temporary fix provided by Rane seems to point at it being a bug.


Can you try these please:

What about this:


Thanks
Karl Y

yeah, all the solutions listed in those other threads.
none of which worked

at that point deleting anything would NOT put it into the trash off the harddrive.
only off the internal drive.

I can imagine reproducing this one is going to be quite a pain.
I have to lean to the idea that it had to do something with Mountain lion.
I was on snow leopard with SSL 2.5 since 2.5 dropped and never had this.
Ive only upgraded to Mountain Lion a month ago, nothing else in my workflow has altered.

but i can report, here we are 10 days later (since the fresh install) and I still have the ability to delete properly.
although, i still rack my brain trying to figure out how something like this just happens with no obvious trigger.

Hi Joshua,

Doing a quick google search, i've found this, and it could be related to your issue:
forums.macrumors.com

particularly the fourth post: forums.macrumors.com

TL;DR there seem to have been quite a few Mac users having issues after upgrading to Mountain Lion with their external drives, so i tend to believe it's been that what you were experiencing.

Let me know if we can close this for now or if you need more help.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Karl Y

Im going to post there..... they all seem to be having issue with performance and backing up.

it would seem that that is certainly some sort of glitchy bug, mostly becuase a.) it was fixed after an install of Serato, and b.) the onset was sudden.

well, at least now you guys have some idea of where to send other users with this issue.
Im wondering if Mavericks has fixed this.

I did notice most of the people on there were using firewire 800, like me
a few USB3s

Thank you for your help Karl.

Hi Joshua,

Cool, i'll close this one for now then if thats fine with you.

Thanks for the effort you put into this and i'm glad we found a solution.

If you need more help let me know =)

Karl

just an FYI, i went in today,
same deal, its back to NOT DELETING.

Deleting the _SeratoBackup_ file seems to be a good temp remedy...
renaming it didnt work, only deleting it and having it rebuilt.

Ive attatched the one that DID NOT allow the deleting, and the new one that does,
hopefully the DEVs can find the standout issue between the 2 identical folders.

I wanted to chime in as I've been having an identical problem as Joshua and have spent the last two weeks trying to troubleshoot the root cause.

Like Joshua, I run all my music off several mirror copied external drives, and have no music on my internal drive. Currently I have the same crate delete issue, and have been able to temporarily fix it by either rebuilding the database V2 files or deleting the Serato Backup file. However, the problem always returns. Again, the disc permissions are correct, the library is not protected etc etc.

I might be able to offer additional insight here - I have an older 2009 model MacBook Pro that was running OSX 10.5.8. Never had any issues deleting crates and used that setup for about 4 years with my external hard drives never connected to another computer. In 2012, I purchased a desktop Mac that was running OSX 10.7 (Lion) and immediately noticed I could not delete crates (or files - nothing could be sent to the trash can) from my external drive on that desktop when I had Serato running. When I connected the externals back to my old 2009 laptop, no problem - I could delete everything with no issue. I later purchased a MacBook air laptop running OSX 10.7, and interestingly, I could not delete crates from that computer either. Since I could still delete crates from the computer running 10.5, I didn't have cause for alarm and put the issue aside. For the record, I had SSL 2.2.2 installed on all three computers.

Fast forward to about three weeks ago - I updated the 2009 laptop to OSX 10.7 so I could run Serato DJ on the laptop, and boom - all the sudden I couldn't delete crates (or files) off the laptop either - it was now the same deal on all three computers.

I've (temporarily) fixed the problem by rebuilding the database V2 file but its always a temporary fix as Joshua has alluded to. The problem always re-surfaces, usually within a day or two. And no, this doesn't happen if you load tracks to the internal drive - this is clearly an external drive issue.

I've noted an item that might be worth investigating - as you know, when you delete a crate on a Mac, the file goes to the trash bin, and in order to make it completely delete on an external drive, the trash must be emptied with the
external drive connected or it will remain in the .trashes folder and will still live on the drive (whereas a PC just deletes the file straight away). After a V2 rebuild, and with the ability to delete crates, I've noticed that emptying the trashed crates from the wastebin of the external drive PRIOR to ejecting it causes the crate delete problem to return immediately - its almost like the act of deleting the crates from the trash bin corrupts the V2 files. If you eject the drive without emptying the wastebin, and then reconnect it, and THEN delete the trashed crates, the crate delete problem does not reappear right away. I have to guess this is a clue as to the root of the issue. I am not enough of a Mac guy to even take a stab at the connection here, but I thought this was worth mentioning.

In any case, this is frustrating - hopefully this can be addressed as it does seem like this is a common issue. Thanks for looking into it!

Ill take this a step further and intruduce a new varient to this lil nightmare.

So, the way i maintain my library I have folders that are identical to my crates.
which is nice, becuase if theres any issue, I just re-create the new crates in serato and drag the corresponding folder from the external harddrives.

Ive been doing it this way for years.

heres where its been going wrong since mountain lion.

when I drag the folder over into the crate not ALL the files are coming over into SSL.
i have to go back into the actual folder and select all the tracks, and drag them over into serato.

i actually found this last night. I had about 60 new tracks I added
when i went to play them, they didnt exist in my SSL library, but sure enough they were in the folder.
so i grabbed the folder and dragged it to the crate (like i always have, this fortifies the crate with everything in that folder)
and in front of my eyes i watched it NOT load the tracks in the folder.
I had go and grab all the tracks indivually and drag them in.

again, this would seem to be some sort of permission issue.
some of the edits were actually MY edits, which I havent changed the render style at all.

Thanks for all the info.

We are going to investigate this.
i can't make any promises at this stage if or when we can fix it though, unfortunately.

Since it has been addressed in Serato DJ already, it's probably a low priority to be fixed in Scratch Live as well.
Any critical bugs we will still address in Scratch Live, but since this one seems to be edge case and there is a workaround for it, the solution will be to upgrade once Serato DJ becomes available for Rane hardware.

Can you verify it's working how it should in Serato DJ offline player?

Cheers
Karl Y

Thanks Karl
I havent installed Serato DJ yet, The library bug scares me to death, I use a 62, and its not compatible with mix emergncy.

but i will and see if I can re-create it.

I wish I could figure out what triggers it.
but thus far I can tell you, since i started posting this, Ive had probably 5 instances of this.
(not deleting)
and the fix has been deleting the Serato_Backup folder.

I have not found a work a round for adding new music to ssl via drag and drop
other than going into the folder and finding the songs I just added
(which can be confusing if your tracks have older dates and such

thanks, appreciate you guys giving this some attention.

Unfortunately, this is not exclusive to SSL - it does occur in Serato DJ as well. More on that in a moment...

On a positive note, here's the official "workaround" I've come up with for this issue:

1. Delete Serato backup folders in both the external drive and the internal drive.

2. Open either SSL or Serato DJ.

3. Close SSL or Serato DJ and allow the program to create new backup folders upon shutdown

4. Next time you reopen the program, the issue will be fixed - at least temporarily

However, and this is a big however, this is STILL an issue within Serato DJ (I am using 1.5.2. so I am on the most current version). Its the exact same scenario as SSL. The same fix works, but when connected to a SSL / Serato DJ device, the problem will randomly reappear at some point after executing the workaround.

The problem of crates not deleting will always reappear, and it seems to be tied to the following circumstances:

1. After executing the "workaround" by deleting / recreating the Backup crates, the problem will INSTANTLY reappear if you connect the external hard drive to a different computer and open SSL or Serato DJ. This may be a clue for the developers to look at. I've tested this over and over - something about putting the drive on another computer triggers the non-deleting crate issue. The "workaround" will fix this, but the second you connect the drive to a different computer than the one you executed the workaround procedure on, the problem will return and you'll need to execute the workaround again to fix it.

2. Online use (ie connected to a SSL or Serato DJ device). I've messed with the offline player for a week and not had the crate delete problem return, but any time I've DJ'd an actual event, the problem returns at some point during the set. When I play out live, I am not deleting crates or files, so I've never been able to peg a jump off point for when the problem returns, but again, the offline player does not seem to trigger this issue, but its triggered during ever set I've played while connected to an "online" device.

So yes, this is annoying, but not a serious issue for me - I've never run into the issue Joshua described about not being able to add files to crates or anything of that nature. My issue has been 100% limited to not being able to delete either crates or song files through SSL or Serato DJ. Thankfully this does not seem to impact the stability of the program or the library, and is thus just a nuisance issue. However, its still one that should be a priority investigation for the Serato team - it seems like it shouldn't be too difficult to pin down the cause of this.

However, I definitely wanted to call it out that this is NOT exclusive to SSL and is also an issue that carries over to Serato DJ.

Hi Jeremy D

we've logged it as a bug for Serato DJ as well and we added your findings to the error report.

Thanks heaps for the detailed informations provided! (to both of you :-))

I'll close this one as a logged and known bug for now, but if you need more help with anything, let me know.

Cheers
Karl Y