i just saw this as well!i cant effing wait!

And there it is... the upgrade path from Intro.

This business model makes a lot more sense for Serato. People are pretty happy to pay an amount for an upgrade... with the previous business model, Itch users that bought a VCI-300 back in 2008 get free upgrades for ever (well up to 2.2.2).

Not a great way to fund future development. Most people will be more than happy to pay a $50-100 upgrade fee for major version every couple of years.

The longevity or RANE's hardware must also be hurting SSL dev, again, I have an SL1 I bought back in 2005 and have had 7 years or free upgrades and improvements - same dealio.

I'd LOVE to see DVS for controllers with line-ins (380, NS6, etc) in Serato DJ. Would be happy to pay for a plugin to do it like with Serato Intro. One less box I'd need!

I'll be waiting for the update :) !! as all of us, I hope bugs fixed (like the tempo light xD) and more features.

Itch controllers don't get compatibility until Spring 2013... Bummer.

serato.com

serato.com

I called it back here in october last year. I called it Serato DJ Pro... but I predicted that ITCH would be phased out.

I am happy that Itch users a free bump, but also would have been prepared to pay a small nominal fee on an old controller like a VCI-300.

This new strategy will benefit users and Serato a like, and it certainly makes sense why Serato ITCH dev has been a little slow of late.

yes, it all makes sense..still bummed out about having to wait 6 months and it looks like, as long as dj intro users pay, theyll get to use it before us

edit* like Serato video --- a paid DVS plugin. Not that I am hopeful, I think DVS might have seen it's day.

Finally....This makes sense.

No Xone DX... boooooo...

Not surprised though...

Man that sucks. Spring time?!

Excited for Seratos latest development. Good job........but 2013. Damn it!

So they managed to take the most awesome promising Serato news in ages and execute it in the shittiest way possible with this stupid rollout plan.

If it's ready for high-end prime time with the new Pioneer hardware next months then it's surely not 6 months away from being ready for the VCI-380 or other recent itch controllers. I suspect Serato cashed in on an exclusivity deal with Pioneer that pisses over their loyal customer-base.

Quote: Serato "Hey guys, The Bridge will not be available in Serato DJ."

Quote: Serato "ITCH 2.2.2 is the last planned release of ITCH. "


Oh dear !

Hey Markabre,

ITCH users have been able to enjoy a full feature set and Serato experience for a long time. We wanted to be able to give Serato DJ Intro customers the opportunity to upgrade first, to give them the full Serato experience. ITCH users will get the upgrade for free shortly afterwards.

The new controller looks like the VCI-380, NS6, and DDJ-S1 had a weird threesome and hatched the SX... which is completely awesome.

If it is as good as it looks and holds up, I will be ditching my NS6 and VCI for this momabajama. I am willing to speculate we will be seeing some cool stuff leaking from hear on out till NAMM.

I can say this is a damn smart move on Serato's part as I wasn't holding much hope for Itch with its current development cycle or features, looks like they have stepped back and are trying to get back into the game with a thunderous boom.

A

Yup and I saved up and paid substantially more to get the higher tier feature set because that was important to me. The customers that most value progressive features, get them last, interesting choice. As a VCI-380 user I feel pretty short-changed by the move to ship the new pioneer hardware with Serato DJ for an effectively exclusive period of 6 months (on high end hardware).

Err another software product line or will this be merging with ITCH? If it's 4 products now I am seriously beginning to think Serato is losing their marbles and is steering a ship with no captain. Hopefully these will all merge into 1 product in the near future.

Erm Winter 2013 for DJ Intro controllers? That's an eternity.. no one will care by then lol.

Hahaha! I was thinking the same thing. Pioneer just paid Vestax and Numark a huge compliment. That controller went totally away from the Pio plastic theme.

ITCH 2.2.2 will be the last planned release of ITCH. All further feature development and fixes will be developed for Serato DJ which will be a free upgrade for ITCH customers.

Hmm doesn't sound terrible then. Maybe that will get merged with Scratch Live eventually. But seriously Winter 2013? Does that mean this winter or Dec 2013? If it's Dec 2013... that is a looooooooooong time for current DJ intro hardware

This coming Winter :)

Wow, no more Itch. Sounds kinda sad but understandable as the Itch platform was very limited in scalability (if that's a word).

Where are you guys getting Winter 2013?

It just said above Intro will be supported before Itch controllers.

Intro Controllers = Winter 2013
Itch Controllers = Spring 2013

I'm kinda with Markabre......the guy who spent 150.00 on used Mixtrack will have access to Serato DJ before the loyal customer who's had a 1200.00 NS7? Especially considering many of the guys here are also SSL users, and have purchased multiple controllers. I know I've had a DDJ-S1, NS7 and VCI, as well as an SL2 and SL3. But the Mixtrack guy goes first. Oh and I had one of those too!

x2 Haze

i'd like to add that I understand this is a business decision and this is a "for profit" organization....

..but I think you guys should've waited until you could launch all at once. Who else is best suited to champion the new software the the loyal Itch users that have been waiting for a significant update. The guys willing to spend 199.00 for the upgrade may be much more willing to, once the reviews of this community are out. Essentially I think you would've gained more of jump start by having all controllers supported at first.

Smart move on their part, they saw what worked but also what was lacking in the NS6 and VCI. Sounds like they have stepped up to the plate and launched a controller that fits all needs. The NS6, twitch, and VCI controllers are all great but all have some serious flaws too.

100% agreed unless they are doing this to bank roll the dev costs and recoup losses. We will have to see what it has to offer vs Traktor. If I was a greenhorn DJ and looked at $89 vs $199 vs features, Traktor might be the logical choice to upgrade a low to mid grade controller to. Not saying thats what I would do, but if they are looking at getting the Intro users, that might be something to think about.

Never, know with Serato on what they are doing or what they are thinking. Seems like they actually did listen to the users but failed on letting their users know they were listening ...till now.

Who are we to question this?......lol

But it does pretty much unfair that us loyal ITCH users have to wait till Spring.

INTRO users will have to pay $200 to upgrade, that's a HUGE cashflow for serato right there, and that cash flow is necesary to give us ITCH users the nes software for FREE.

I'm happy.

Very, very happy.

*nes=new

Would you pay 199.00 for a software no one has used before? Trust me I understand this is a product intended to make a profit and if this business plan generates them more revenue then more power to Serato since ultimately it benefits us the users most.....but I think they should've waited until they could roll it out together. 199.00 for a product no one has used vs. 89.00 for traktor that is being widely used. I would've pushed it to Itch and built up the Serato DJ community that way. At first launch there will be more entry level controllers using professional software than high end controllers.

**caveat is the DDJ-SX looks like a homerun ;)

If they wanted traktor they could have it right now...

and they are :) just check out DJTT and see how many Mixtrack users are using Traktor right now.

this is an exciting development, im hoping this is the start of serato closing the gap between ssl and the controller line. i bought a kontrol x1 a few months ago, and the more i use it the more i really want serato to make something as tightly integrated as the x1. the new pioneer unit looks fucking awesome but i really want some controller love that works with dvs. cant always lug around some 3 foot wide controller...

If Serato could only work out a deal w' Rane to allow Turntable Control of "Serato DJ", the gap could truly be closed!!!!!

I would be ALL OVER THAT!!!

So let's say we have a couple of ITCH controllers, and we get Serato DJ for free, and we have a controller such as the mixtrack, to use the mixtrack would we still have to pay for the upgrade?

I just want to know what this means For the NS7 and V7'S. We received a little spill about it still supporting those Numark Controllers but anxious to findt out the details,

Hey Haze,



Pioneer DDJ-SX users would have used the software? :)

I understand the frustration that ITCH controllers will be supported shortly after the Serato DJ Intro controllers are. This is a decision that has many factors and I can promise you it hasn't been made lightly. We want to get Serato DJ in everyones hands as soon as possible and our rollout plan will hopefully accomplish this. All I can promise you is that the teams are all working as hard as they can to deliver everything as soon as we can!

I bought the NS7 based on Serato's promise to bring the Bridge to Itch. I'm still angry at how that whole situation was handled by the company and what is it now, two and a half years later (?) it's still not available. This was made as a firm 'coming to Itch' promise at the time so it seemed reasonable to purchase the hardware in the expectation that it would definitely become available at some point.

This looks like exactly the same thing all over again - advertising something that will be available in six months time? I won't be holding my breath.

And to make the original purchasers of the hardware (the 'old skool' NS7s, VCIs and all that) wait last seems like somewhat of a slap in the face - especially after the Bridge thing - which was pure misleading advertising.

@ sgw, Sue their estate !

this is the best news i have heard from serato.

$200 might ba a bit steep but u get video for the introductory period, plus full blown version of serato!

i cant stand traktor and would happily hand over the green

also the inclusion of iZotope for effects is a great thing. I use their plugins in the studio and nothing short of quality.

i cant wait to hook up maschine and my vci.

What with A&H XONE:DX users? Will we get upgrate to serato dj? when? :/

Looks good guys! Well Impressed.

Will this work with the Bridge?

No words on Keylock algo though. I hope they don't destroy this new product with ITCH's algo.

i've never had a problem with the current algo.

Will there be any possibility of this ever running with the Allen and Heath Xone:DX???

Hey Pete,

Unfortunately as the Allen & Heath Xone:DX has been discontinued, it will not be supported for Serato DJ.

Martin....thanks for the prompt and candid response....although not supported, is there a likelihood that it would work or are the changes so significant that it is requiring a rewrite of firmware and drivers for most controllers in collaboration with your hardware partners?

It is not likely at all that it will be working in Serato DJ.

You can see on the the Allen & Heath website www.allen-heath.com it is mentioned that the product is discontinued.

This means that the product is no longer manufactured by Allen & Heath, and therefore no further hardware development will be made by them. As a result, Serato will not continue to support it in Serato DJ.

Your unit will still continue to work with ITCH 2.2.2.



I couldn't accurately say how significant the changes are, as I am not developer, however there is definitely a certain amount of work required for all of the controllers that will be supported for Serato DJ to make them function with the new forthcoming software.

I hope this answers your question Pete.

Sam,

No worries man. I'm sure you guys are working your butts off and are more excited than we are about your new product. I'm happy to see Serato moving in this direction. My comments are purely based on business decisions and certainly there are factors or cinsiderations I am not aware of. Looking fwd to spring. Good luck with the roll out plan.

That answers your question [thisisdjkaz]
a big fat NO !

If we had rep points, I'd click the button. LOL

Can we get more information about the midi mapping ? wich features will be mappable ect...

The fact that you havent had a problem with it doesnt change the fact that the current algo is sub par by every metric and not up not only to pro level DJ gear, but also to $0.99 iPhone apps.

Artifacts are very noticable even at modest pitch shifts. This could have been kinda good in 2007, but now it's inexcusable.

Here's a thought: I bought a VCI-300 a couple of years ago, and it keeps getting better, and I haven't had to pay any more money.

Gotta agree with cerla.

Cerla,

What are your thoughts on seratos business decision to release the software to the mixtrack users while those of us with the ns6/v7 have to wait?

Word!

[quote
Your unit will still continue to work with ITCH 2.2.2.

oh fine...with a big unfixed memory leak and a non working aera button? I thing you had eaten a clown.....

I find it amazing that Serato keeps its new software compatible not only with the current ITCH lineup, but also with legacy hardware. Especially since mapping an ITCH controller is not an easy task. so a little wait is no drama.

Oh, and that new Pioneer controller looks fantastic (filter knobs!), I think it will entice many, many Traktor users.

Agreed @Cerla. The distortion becomes pretty nasty when scratching slowly or cueing a beat with a slow baby scratch. I've tested multiple versions of SSL and Itch, it's a problem across the board. Did you ever see Q-Bert's comparison video of Traktor and SSL? That was something he pointed out. I really can't stand Traktor but I would LOVE to have that algo in Serato products.

I'm pretty confident Serato won't overlook this (in the press release they hint at more features coming...).

I held off buying a Mixdeck Quad because it wouldn't do the the video crossfade on the mixer with ITCH and the Video plugin. Based on what I am reading, this should all work with Serato DJ?

Can someone from Serato cofirm?

Great news overall though!

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but even if MD4 didn't support video crossfading in SDJ, since they opened up the MIDI part you should be able to jack another controller in to handle that.

I'm still not sure how locked down its going to be, but in theory it should work.

VCi 400 is my next purchase now. LEts go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slashgear is pricing the DDJ SX at $1199... not bad.

www.slashgear.com

Can someone from Serato cofirm?

Great news overall though!

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but even if MD4 didn't support video crossfading in SDJ, since they opened up the MIDI part you should be able to jack another controller in to handle that.

I'm still not sure how locked down its going to be, but in theory it should work.

Thanks Lightning. In fact, that's what I do at the club that I am at now. They have a Mixdeck (original) and I use Serato with the SL1 box and I use an Akai LPD8 for crossfasde. Since the MD$ is a fully midi mixer, I am hopeful to have an all in one solution.

Serato dj could work with the Xone DX via midi mapping I guess?

sooner or later theyve got to. rane makes quality stuff but not every place has a rane mixer installed and with the sl boxes theres really little offered for controlling serato thats as tightly integrated as the competition (kontrol x1). seratos library management is so much more intuitive so it gets frustrating that they dont offer something as tightly integrated simply because of some deal they have with rane. again hopefully this is the beginning of a tide change, because for dvs i was about ready to make the change to traktor.

Possible, but Serato said they wouldn't support the DX any more, which leads me to believe that there is a huge possibility that you will have to have a "Serato Approved Device" to launch SDJ. This would be the norm for Serato. So DX Users will most likely be forced to either stay with Itch, upgrade hardware or jump ship to Traktor which sounds like a BIG kick in the nuts to me.

I almost was in this boat but my DX was defective from GC and they had no more so I got the NS6. At least there are plenty of options for the DX users to keep using it regardless of Serato's decision.

Looking at the Pioneer's mixer channels... what's up with the odd numbering? 3-1-2-4?

www.pioneerdjusa.com

Looks like they are holding hands now with iZotope so maybe they could be working on a better time stretching algo than the one serato currently has for ITCH based on their Radius plugin.

(up)

Can we get more information about Midi mapping ? Slip mode, slicer and 4 chanel will be accessible for all ?

Wouldn't be bad to have Phantom power for this. Make all my dreams come true.

ok spring 2013, its spring here in NZ now so we have to wait a year?

^^^^ I hope this is not the case ((:

This numbering has proved to make sense. Usually you would use two decks: 1 and 2. You would use deck 1 on the left side of the cf and deck 2 on the right side. That's why deck 1's lf sits close to deck 2's lf. Now add 2 more d3cks and you'll get why it's numbered 3124.

Looking forward to seeing the new Pioneer unit in action, are there any videos up?

I'm especially curious to know if this new software is as good with scratching as a V7 or VCI-300, or weather it will be more like scratching on a S2 or VCI-400...

Ah, found this Pioneer video anyway, not really any sort of demonstration. I'm sure I'll find as many DJs who want to scratch 2 decks at once as I know video DJs...

Watchwww.youtube.com

I think many Xone DX users are really pissed about this. I think it is not quite right. I mean I read on one forum some guy bought last week a Xone DX new from a shop and he just read that Itch is on it's last version and no future for him with updates. Sounds pretty not fair to me.
WTF..What is the reason for this? I mean A&H Xone Dx is and was a certified Serato Itch Controller
with it's logo on it. Well..there is always Traktor for him.

talk about beat a dead horse! ITS DISCONTINUED!!!! NOT MADE ANYMORE! if he did his homework he would have known this, and it still works totally fine with ITCH! Which is printed onit. why waste development time on a dead old product???

Serato,

After reading some of the crap that's been posted in the last 2 days, I apologize for any post dealing with release dates or business model. This new product and way ahead look great. Keep up the good work. I expect you guys will receive many more dumb ass posts.

itch 2.2.2 is still buggy and quick and dirty released with the background to announce those infos these days. Version 2.2.2 is unusable with many big databases and has got xone specific bugs. I dont believe that Serato now spent time for fixing generally V2.x specific bugs.

I'm still not able to load my Version 2.x build database wihtout crash because of a memoryleak!

And now i read, itch is dead. Its allowed to be pissed of, or?

.....i am a xone user.....

i feel for you but EVERY ITCH controller and scratchlive has large database issues, more so with itch than scratchlive. and there is no way to fix that as serato have said many times. you just need to trim ya database for sure thats a pain and i also can not use my vci-380 on my windows laptop but on my mac works fine.

i love my xone because this console has a endless knob instead of a pitchfader.

While I DO see a lot of promising developments here...

ITCH users have effectively just been told "nothing for you for six months". No upgrades, no bug fixes. Oh, great - and now, no BRIDGE.

Frankly, In this case, I would have prefrered the silent treatment instead. Then I woudn't know until, say, a week before this release in "SPRING, 2013". Assuming that's even EARLY Spring.

I pay 1000€ for this controller. Serato + Xone = EPIC FAIL


This is why the better djs uses TRAKTOR. The support is the difference.

It will never be good for everyone here. If serato would wait for 6 months and then announce this a week advance then people would complain they had to wait for a long time.

Now they announce well in advance and people are also complaining.

I don't get that...

I'm a xone user too, but I understand. It won't be the first time something older/discontinued didn't get an upgrade (think Snow Leopard vs Power PC-based Apple computers).

Xone:DX will not magically stop working on Serato DJ release day.

There was no obligation from Serato's part to support the controller forever; as opposite, they're supporting free of charge several other controllers including discontinued ones, which is a very good thing in my book.

Instead of copying/pasting the same comment with the word "traktor" in capitals, try to open a petition to support your controller in Serato DJ.

i think, this will waste our time and will not impress Serato

Every petition subscribed by a lot of folks, in my memory, had succeeded. FLAC support, FX, better FX, video just to name a few.

In the case of the Xone:DX, this won't happen unfortunately.

It's discontinued and will remain to be supported in the latest ITCH release.

think it over.....you will disgust thousends xone owner.

i don't understand a lot of dj's here ..... if you are a dj and get money for djing, you should change all 1 - 2 years your console. a console has not the same quality as a club-cdj or club-mixer.
now we get serato dj and a much better (semi-professionell) console from pioneer. i will buy it, no question. why you want a new software for a (old) console?

How about we just let Serato launch the damn software first before we hate them for what they've done? Yes, I can agree that it sucks that they're making Itch users wait another 6 months or so to upgrade to the new software, but I'm personally SUPER-excited about it! In my case, the timing was perfect for its announcement, because I was going to buy a new Traktor DJ controller next week and jump ship from Itch to Traktor. Like many of you, I had given up on Serato...but now I'm excited and have hope once again.

And where does it say that we won't be getting The Bridge for Serato DJ? I read somewhere that it wasn't happening at product launch, but people are talking like it's never going to happen! Did I miss something? My guess is that it's likely to come somewhere down the line in a future release. Serato gave us Video, I'm sure they'll give us The Bridge in time.

The new Pioneer DDJ-SX looks pretty bad-ass and addresses many of my concerns with the earlier DDJ-S1 In fact, just by skimming the details we know about it, it appears to blow EVERYTHING out of the water, including the new, over-rated VCI-380 (which I had for a short period and returned--I thought it was junk). The only real glaring issue I see with the new SX is its size--it appears comparable to the size of the NS6, which is pretty big.

I'm gonna hold off until NAMM and see what else is coming down the pike and then make my decision as to which controller I buy to replace my Twitch (which will become my backup unit). As impressive and all-encompassing as the DDJ-SX is now, imagine what ELSE might be coming! This is only the FIRST controller for the new software!

Based off what I've seen so far, my only remaining concern from what I can see is that I hope Serato upgrades its beatgridding algorithm...in my experience, Itch is pretty lousy at detecting bpm/beats on nearly 50% of the music I run through it. While I don't use sync mode personally, I LIKE having my songs properly beatgridded for tidiness and occasional "wave-riding" purposes. I find it frustrating when I can load a song into Traktor 2.5 and it gets the grid perfect, while I load that exact same song into Itch and it can't get the grid remotely close to being accurate. Very frustrating.

Nicely done, Serato. Looking forward to seeing what new awesomeness you've cooked up!

for me, its not a money problem. The xone is the one and only that offers several ASIOI audiochannels and a very charming way to route a previewplayer through the console's cue directly in the headphone. I also have a serato dj supported twitch console. But the output is lightyears from xone's away.....

i would have no problems with this updatepolicy when 2.2.2 would work for me.....

I'm still using 2.2.0 myself, but I'm also still using Snow Leopard...

@dj-nice
i anderstand. i'm am happy with my NS6 and it works fine with 2.2.2 .... you use de ITCH in a different way....and i have only a small song-database....

Upgrade to 2.2.2
It's just better

I actually like the Xone DX..it is not a dead horse in any means.. It is a pretty tight controller.
A&H is a really solid company and guess the DX didn't shine as well as it should have.

Very happy with NS7FX + ITCH combo since they were first introduced.

This is very welcoming news and I can't wait to see the new GUI and capabilities of Serato DJ.

I think people need to stop comparing Itch to Traktor because the fact that you are here and using Itch is because it gives you something better. And if you are here just because then stop trolling around. :)

I totally disagree with Serato's business direction to allow users of DJ Intro to upgrade first and making us Itch users wait. If you are cash strap, I am sure many will be willing for pay a small fee for the upgrade. It's silly to be creating tiers of users by making preference of one over the other.

i don't think that Serato DJ will have much more usable features as ITCH 2.2.2, when u use your ITCH-controller.

only if you get a new Serato DJ Controller, you can use new and more features.?

"Serato DJ support for Serato DJ Intro and ITCH controllers will be rolled out in a series of releases this coming winter."

This is a complete load of crap...........most djs want stability. You didn't see jocks switching between 1200's, to ttx's, to xyz brands of turntables every year. Most djs marry to a product and expect it continue to work for years to come. Just because I have a boatload of cash hanging around doesn't mean I want to spend it frivolously for the latest and greatest controller fad. As a MOBILE dj myself, I don't have the time or the desire to have to continually retool my mobile gear every time something new comes rolling out. It would have to be spectacular to make me want to convert and retool.

Some djs can deal with moving around to multiple interfaces, but IMO, most can't. I can't tell you how many djs I've seen screw up a show or mix because they "don't know the system that well". That is the landmine of moving around to new system "every couple of years". These are supposed to be tools to get the job done, nothing more. Swapping out every couple of years as an expectation is completely unrealistic and does nothing more than line someone else's pockets.

This is just my opinion.

I don't get why Xone:DX users will not be able to use Serato DJ.
Discontinued?
Are you kidding?

What about Vestax VCI-300, Numark V7/NS7?
Have A&H pissed you off?
I think it has something to do with the partnership to D&M as the HC-5000 won't be supported too.

The VCI-300 was the first ITCH controller ever and has been replaced two times.

As I have a Twitch and a VCI-380 everything's fine with me but I really feel bad for the Xone:DX users!

As do I...



This is the part many don't seem to understand.

When something is discontinued, it's discontinued. That simple. I know it sucks (believe me on this as I deal with it constantly having worked in IT in some form or capacity for years), but that is the nature of the beast.

Android and iOS users deal with it ALL the time.

Probaly did not want to sign a new deal w/ Serato

VCI-400+serato dj DDJ-SX. I think these are the best solutions for all in one solution consolle!

The device was discontinued. That simple.

Why should someone invest money into developing for a device with a diminishing user base with no outlook on future return sales? Come on, this is simple business people.

The Numark NS7 and NS6 are still for sale. They will continue to be made available for sale. Numark even announced TODAY that it would package Serato DJ in future sales with their current ITCH devices.

The VCI-300 Mk. 2 is still for sale and remains for sale. The VCI-380 is still for sale and remains for sale.

The various Pioneer devices are for sale and remain for sale.

ITCH licenses sold to manufacturers will be carried over as Serato DJ licenses and collected through various Royalty agreements.

Since there are no new Allen & Heath Xone DX devices being sold, there are no royalties being collected and thus Serato makes no money.

If you stand to, as a company, make no money off a product (First Sale Doctrine, people. Third party sales (person-to-person) do not make Serato money), then why bother to develop for it? That's a waste of resources and valuable development man hours which could be put elsewhere.

This is simple business and economics.

(third up :D )

Can we get more information about midi mapping ? slicer, slip mode and 4 chanel for every one ?

That actually makes sense. Thank you.

I do my best :D

why would i want to change to something new every 1-2 years ? if its working fine why change it ? yes i like and look at other controllers but my NS7 is serving me just fine

Will Slicer work with an external midi controller?

I too am curious about this.

I'm actually an agreement with you Tyme. That statement reminds me of someone I knew who would buy a new car every 2-3 years (old car worked fine and was well under warranty!) and wondered why they were always broke.

Slicer will only be available for controllers that support it. That is, the Pioneer DDJ-SX, Novation TWITCH and Vestax VCI-380.

The A&H Xone DX help section is blowing up with mad levels of discontent... lol.



...because it can't run a software update? LOLZ... It's not like the thing is going to shut off and quit working; even with "just plain 'ol Itch" it still runs circles around a lot of controllers that are out there now in terms of flexibility (IMO).

Ok; is it possible that a controller that doesn't currently support the feature be updated to support the feature? Much like what happened with the SP6 for everyone?

Hopefully we can do this in a future release. No plans or timeframe at all to share for that though sorry.

Therefore the vci-400 which does not support the slicer in intro will not have it in serato dj. Im sure there are people who own or intend on owning the vci-400 who believe the serato dj update will make it work.

Thank you so much for clearing the air with the slice feature. I think that's a hard line approach though. It's a feature that i'm craving, We have great classic Itch controllers with the Itch name branded on our equipment; the least Serato can do is bring this feature to us. It's going to be a hard sell/trade now because of that branding on the itch controllers; it's instant obsolescence after about a year with the ns6. I'm excited about the update but it's definitely bitter sweet; Itch is str8 shot dead now, those of us with Itch controllers deserve a bone for this and slicer should be that bone. Again, bitter sweet. First The Bridge and now no slicer and End of the line for itch. Scratching my head?...........

And how about the slip mode ? for every one ?

Slip Mode is exclusively for the Pioneer DDJ-S1 and DDJ-SX at this stage Bozo.

While Slicer is only available for the controllers I mentioned earlier at this stage, it's not to say it won't be forever. Just not for the initial version of Serato DJ. We hope to be able to offer this in a future Serato DJ release. I just can't share any kind of timeframe or roadmap at the moment.

Sam.

ok can any one at serato say that spring 2013 release is nz spring or norther hemisphere spring? as nz spring 2013 is still a whole year away since its only spring here now

Northern Spring 2013.

Sam,

Question:
If I purchase a DDJ-SX and also own a Mixtrack. Once support is available will the same version of Serato DJ work with both controllers. Will I have serial number?

^ Good question, haze324 ^

No, you will need to purchase a license for your Intro controller to use it with Serato DJ.

OK thanks.

Wow!, Just watched the video for the new Pioneer DDJ-SX. Wowww!

Pioneer DDJ-SX no eq kills? -26db? correct me if im wrong...

Hopefully they put a option in the set up to kill or attenuate to -26db as I think my Twitch does it.

Hopefully someone can confirm it's a selectable "kill".

just jumping in here... xone people pissed... oh well... i bought my vci300 years ago and did a great job with the software when it was purchased. yes it got better... but bottom line, buy something for what it does when you buy it... not what it MIGHT do in the future.

Discontinued or not that sucks. I own 2 Xone DX's and now I am being told that if I want to move forward I need to invest in new hardware. The DX is my preferred controller of choice.

Looking at your system profile, I see you own a 17" MacBook Pro running Snow Leopard. I'm sure it is your preferred machine of choice. So are you going to be screaming at Apple because the 17" MacBook Pro has been discontinued and they choose to no longer support it with future updates, or will you invest in new hardware?

Good question....lol

Got some questions now...

1) Will itch 2.2.2 be updated when certain operating systems upgrade?
If not, then you might get stuck as a DX user within the next release of the OS of your choice.


2) when I read: MIDI mapping, I understand it must be possible to route the slicer mode to a second controller. But the quote seems to let us know that this will not be possible, is it?

im puzzled by this too, i though we would be able to map the slicer to an external contoller but it seems to me that we cant..
I'm going to assume that if your controller is not a twitch, sx, or a vci 380, it will not activate the slicer at all, which really sucks

I would think the slicer would be pretty pretty tricky to map yourself. Sure, possible... but probably outside the scope of mapping that serato is offering. In it's controller implementation it also has light feedback to the buttons.

Does anybody know the estimated price for pioneer ddj-sx?

between $1,000 & $1,200.....that's sooo freakin' cheap!!

Some traktors users will have to admit that this is the final move from Serato to par the levels with Traktor software. I have been waiting for this for a couple of years by now, Still we have to wait for numark's mpc dj launch in 2013. Hopefully will be running Serato dj, and if it does not, I will definitely
upgrade to pioneer ddj sx. I strongly believe it has everything we have been expecting from serato and a partnership so strong like pioneer. I wonder what how numark is going to offer next year to match such product as ddj sx

I dont think a premium 4 channel controller from pioneer will be priced that low, if it is correct, that will be awesome. but I have my doubts about that.
thanks for responding

Holy heck, how long has my twin brother been on the Serato Forums? I own ableton, an APC 40 and a NS7 (plus a twitch for house parties) and I am ready to get a full refund on all of these things if I don't hear a word about Serato DJ getting The Bridge. It was 3/4ths of the reason I bought all this stuff.

Of course there is.. Serato should simply fix the issue on their end. That's a defective part of the product. Period. Marketing said there are now limitation concerning amount of tracks. Now stick to your words.

I don't own a Xone or Denon Itch device. But if Serato promised The Bridge for Itch (this means for *all* devices incl. Xone and Denon) and suddenly withdraw their promises after almost years, then this is a shady move and reminds me of Native Instruments business moves, which I never liked.

i find it funny all these people going on about the bridge - how many people does anyone know actually making use of the bridge for scratch live? i bet the number is low - i love ableton, i love serato but the 2 have completely different workflows and i bet majority of you aching to have the bridge would be done with the shit within a month if given it right now. its been out for scratch live how long now? it hasnt exactly set the world on fire now has it?

i just do not get it - if its that important to you why didnt you just spend your money on a rane box?
sucks your hopes went unfulfilled but it just sounds like childish consumer whining

I don't think the number of customers matter. A promise is a promise.

If you're affected, then you'd be pissed.


Because it has been said that it will come for the hardware they already paid for.

no more doubts.....www.agiprodj.com

The bridge was a flop big time! And if ppl wanted bridge that much they would have got scratchlive but they didnt they just sit here bitching. I would rather have serato make something like the bridge in there own software. You know the bridge for ssl is dead unless your rocking an old version of ableton?

But 100% if you got itch because they advertised it would have the bridge in 2011 then yes you have the right to be really pist off. Again another bad move. Sadly i dont know what you can do about it.

Being a Pioneer product, this is a really good price!

Yes it is

Serato should issue an apology for the Bridge fiasco. And offer a free Video license to every ITCH user requesting it, as a refund.

Think Antennagate and free bumpers.

i believe there is a saying for said "promises", i believe it goes: shit in one hand and wish into the other - see which hand fills up first...
and, i was affected - 2 years ago. since then having actually tried the bridge it really wasnt quite the wet dream i had in mind and i got over it.

im not trying to be antagonizing, im just sincerely asking - anyone try the bridge and really give a shit about it?
been using ableton since like 4.0 (that was the intro of midi and vst to the platform right?) and yeah the initial announcement of the bridge gave me a boner but fact is its not really gratifying - its 2 completely different workflows and the impression i get from all the moaning about "THEY PROMISED" - i dont think 90% have ever used the bridge for ssl, and if they did the solution to their problems would be simple - make your primary piece of kit a rane sl box.
simple problem - simple solution.

* or Pitch n Time LE free license :)

As per most products, hardware or software, buy it for what it does TODAY. Sucks, but sometimes dev priorities change with the market or unforeseen circumstances. Apple realise this 100%. Serato will be much quieter on future feature roadmaps, at least I hope they are.

I just bought the vci-380, knowing the auto / loop implementation isn't exactly to my liking, I am hoping it may change in the future, but did not base my purchase decision on it changing. I will change my workflow to fit... And if I have new options in DJ, yah. By then I might prefer the alternative. :)

Hope the velocity will be workable for many midi mapping solution and 4 deck acces on VCI 380 (and one day slip mode :O).

I don't think the 380 is obsolete (don't think you said that), just bought mine to and i will not return it because the DDJ SX is to eavy for my activity, maybe gonna buy it for bedroom djing instead of a new mbp (the difference between a child and an adult ? the price of their toy).

I just want mappable loop controls, instant double buttons, and fully mappable sampler control routed to its own channel on day one that Serato DJ is available for the 380.

As long as everything that puts the SX ahead of the 380 control-wise is mappable, I'll have a Lemur template ready to go to take care of it all right from the start. I can't wait to use my video Lemur pages again.

I have Scratch Live but would rather use The Bridge with ITCH/DJ as it makes more sense to me.

Apology? Yes but do we really need to ask for that (which I already did)?
Promising it maybe was the worst move Serato has ever made. But phasing it out without any comment?
Serato: Just removed from the website.
Ableton: Said they were to busy in 2011 so we were expecting it in 2012.
Pioneer: Advertised the DDJ-S1 with The Bridge.

There should've been an official press release at least.

I started a discussion here in The Bridge's area and got a respond that became quite typical for Serato lately: serato.com
Whatever people have asked for in last months and especially since Serato DJ was announced was:
"We are looking into it... it would be great if... we can't say anything now"

I don't want to have any inside information on development. I think nobody wants that and of course nobody outside Serato needs to. But a little more information would be better. Saying "no" or "yes" would be best - even for a given timeframe.

Oh, and free Serato Video would suck as I already have a license :)
And if I could trade Serato Video with The Bridge I totally would go for it.

If you buy a lot of equipment you can get the pioneer for less then 850.00 so for pioneer thats a huge change in there price format

my take: the Bridge was a flawed concept to begin with, that translated in a poor user experience. I'm a DJ/producer (the target audience for the Bridge) but I've always found this integration lacking and basically wrong at every level. Uninspiring.

To distract valuable resources just to keep a promise, for the benefit of a handful of people genuinely interested in the Bridge, would be a mistake, especially in this transitional phase.

So, damage control is what is needed here. An open letter from Serato's CEO, for example, and some kind of refund.

Serato teaming up with another company that had an iffy roadmap for the future, didn't know how to build on its own success, and was losing touch with the market it helped create was never a good plan. It sounded great, but Ableton is STUCK--not who you want to partner up and try to develop new software with when you're in such a fast-moving field with gigantic, well-funded, and experienced rivals like NI.

And you could never scratch or backcue Live sets with it! The first question every DJ asked, and the answer was always/still is "no."

Serato Video is another reason I want The Bridge. I currently have this half-backwards setup to "bridgelessly" work my NS7 setup and Ableton together over two monitors using a Amplitube Stealth pedal audio card to route ITCH sounds through Ableton and the midi footswitch to navigate windows & .VST's.

The Bridge would really help me get this setup mobile (using the Twitch I have as well) and maybe free up that second monitor for video so I don't have get frustrated with the triple split like I do. It would also help to cue Ableton sounds naturally, rather than the ridiculous auxiliary workaround I have going.

I think i read somehwere yesterday that serato brought key people in to revamp there roadmap and get the company back on track so im sure they are re-thinking everyhting at this point and im sure the bridge was one of those things that had to be dropped or changed. I feel like serato might finally be back to heading in the right direction.

I disagree there. It was not finished I personally think.

However there are DJ's like DJ Eskei83 who use The Bridge successfully.


This is the part I agree.

I suspect you are 100% right regardless of what anyone else says. You and I are on the eye to eye when it comes to this company. I understand it's good for Pioneer's courtship with Serato, but way to turn the ITCH users into the bastard children of Serato with no child support until spring.. 6 months? That sounds about right for a small exclusive agreement. Just long enough to flood the market with the SX.

I'll say this up front and right now. If this new software addresses all the issues we've been whining about now that Pioneer is involved, I will NEVER touch another Pioneer product and I will NEVER buy another piece of gear with the words 'Serato' anywhere on it. And all the nut riders who defend these companies and just all too satisfied with the product to realize who and how they're screwing people to get ya there.

I'm out..

- Matt

@matt, if they give you the products you want and they work then really does it matter?

I completely 100% don't understand your statement. Elaborate and explain how your elaboration relates to a position I took in my post so I clearly understand your point please.

And the A&H users have EVERY right to be upset when NOWHERE in the print or packaging with their product does it clearly state 'Software support expires when product production expires' Because if it did, those clearance items wouldn't BUDGE. If it is the position that Serato thinks this sort of practice is OK, so be it :) But you fix EVERY DAMN SINGLE SOLITARY BUG infested in the last release of ITCH for those users first! Outrageous!

While we're at it, Serato, Vestax, or who/how ever else is responsible for this bold ITCH 'badge' all over our products needs to fork over some $ for new face plates and ship them out to us with installation instructions. I hereby refuse to 'support a discontinued product' :) If that kind of attitude is good enough for Serato, it's good enough for me. Right?

- Matt

Once they progress to this point in the distant whispered-about future when controller functions are fully remappable, which I know I saw mentioned somewhere, then the Xone should be mostly useable again because it is just a soundcard/MIDI controller & you should be able to get Itch to play sound through it and map it yourself.

If that time comes and they lock the Xone out of working that way, then that's really a reason to be upset. I can see not wanting to make new default mappings for old hardware, but to make it impossible to map in the future would just be spiteful.

Once the product allows user mapping, anything midi will pretty much be supported. I see that 'whispered about feature' going the same route as the 'whispered about bridge'. They screwed up so bad on this one, i'm only sticking around to enjoy and comment on the MUCH deserved fallout from it. I'll be auditioning 3 different replacement products today and am happy to say I am done with this garbage. I'm here to watch the ship sink, I paid for it.

- Matt

@matt, i was trying to be funny and it failed. i totally get your point. Of course it makes a huge difference and i have a ns6 and would be really pissed if they stop supporting. i am buying the new pioneer but thats just me.

Absolutely. If it really happens, we won't see it before 2014, and there'll be some caveat that makes it a lot less fun.

My bad, I get it now. The Pioneer unit looks sweet, but I'll stick by my boycott. It doesn't offer anything my skillet requires so i'm not losing anything by avoiding it.

- Matt

umm... I bought it on clearance expecting nothing more than (a) Allen & Heath sound quality (which I got), (b) the capabilities inherent in Itch 1.6 (which were surpassed many times over), and (c) the ability to map it to other software if I so chose (which I can). I didn't even expect to be satisfied with Itch at the time to be honest; there was so much bitchin' about it not having this feature or that feature on the board about it that I was fully prepared to jump to Traktor if I had to.

I also knew it was discontinued and was prepared for everything that that's historically entailed.

Not everyone shops with the same goals and expectations you do. Thus the politics involved in making a decision like this as there will always be some offended people who didn't see this coming.

This is just plain bad business. Let me break this down into something people might better relate to. We'll use Microsoft Windows. It's a well known product and people can follow this. Microsoft has well published support timelines and roadmaps.

When VISTA was released, You had to pay for the upgrade. But you're paying for the new FEATURES. Features and functionality might go hand in hand, but they are supported differently! Yeah you have to pay for VISTA's features over XP's, but Microsoft HAS and WILL continue to send out hotfixes, patches, and service packs for XP and has even EXTENDED that support!

With Serato, the first roadmap i've seen so far was making ITCH users wait! LOL! Is that some sort of joke? The A&H users (including you) SHOULD be upset because while Windows XP support of bux fixes has been extended 7 YEARS after it's successor VISTA. And now 2 years after sales of PC's with XP (this means no more XP revenue, but still supporting it!) they have a plan to continue to debug the code base clear till 2014! A total of 4 years after revenue halts on new PC sales.

The plan for ITCH users?:

You can all migrate..
after you wait..
after Pioneer is happy..
Oh, and throw out those A&H X:one's.. it's not like they make them any more!

Do you see Microsoft treating people this way after their PC is no longer made, like 6 months after it's released and replaced by a new model? Nope! If the hardware supports it, and you can find a driver, you're in there! And Microsoft is just an example. Tons of legit software companies publish support guidelines and while they don't offer free feature upgrades, they still bux fix! Go read the list of bugs reported in 2.2.2 on that forum and they're being told 'sorry about your luck' basically.

I say if you have no intention of 'perfecting' ITCH 2.2.2 before you drop it, you need to migrate ALL ITCH users until they get a code base that works for all of them. What is going on here is a catastrophically poor decision. To base this kind of decision on manufacturer support? Lunacy! People are still buying this controller! Subaru quit making my vehicle model in 2004, I sure am glad I can still get parts after the fact! It's called LEGACY support.

I got front seat tickets to this debacle and I intend to watch the whole show.. popcorn? :)

- Matt

I'd rather not have to keep up with a key dongle to use it... I'll stick to a free license of Serato Video :P (But then, of course, we'll have to deal with ITCH users who already own it complaining about that so... there goes that idea). Back to that Pitch Algorithm, we circle...


See, this is the messed up part here and why I understand many person's anger.

Serato did advertise that the Bridge was coming (it was part of their introduction of 2.0) to ITCH.

It was delayed... then delayed more... and finally we got "Sometime in 2011" as a response; and then 2011 came and went. Now 2012 has essentially come and gone and now the response is "No Bridge. Period."

I know Bridge was a disaster. This is why I don't feel so bad about not having it. But the fact that it was an advertised feature which likely influenced it's sales is a problem to me. But that's just my opinion.
I will point out that no where on the packaging does it need to say such. This is implied by the product itself and is a simple fact of the market. When something is no longer supported, it is no longer supported. Video Game Companies, Software Companies, Hardware Manufacturers... etc.; They all do this all the time.

LOL! Thanks for the education. Countless successful lawsuits over packaging disclosure, warranty misrepresentation, product misrepresentation and the mere fact that 'legacy support' exists in every field you cited; disqualifies your entire statement and establishes it firmly as 'opinion'. Enjoy that new SX! =)

- Matt

If this is true, can you load Vista on a 486?

You're talking apples & oranges; you're taking software upgrades and implying that they should be made backwards-compatible for discontinued products forever. This just does not happen... you can't run Snow Leopard on a PowerPC-based Mac, you can't run Android 2.0 on a Motorola Cliq (not without some substantial hacking anyway). How is this any different?

Damn... beat me to it.

Who said forever? I cited good practices, legacy support, and planned roadmaps that generally reflect a companies plan to transition users. The A&H users got a red light out of the sky! That's not a plan for transition, it's a middle finger.

And if I disabled all hardware checks and ran it in safe mode, VISTA might actually run on a 486. Would it be a productive work enviroment? doubtful. People have run windows 7 on a Pentium 2.. Google it.

What's next?

- Matt

Maybe im excited, maybe too excited but after checking this out im excited about DJing again. It looks like Serato has done most of what we have asked for. Midi is huge! Traktor killer? maybe

I did say "not without substantial hacking". That hardly falls under the umbrella of "supported".

That "red light out of the sky" is the same one I got when Mac OSX 9.2 came out and I wanted to install it on my Powermac 8500/120 in '01. I think I got all the outrage out of my system then.

...or Mac OS 9.2, rather. I'm so used to putting an X in there by default now.

For anyone interested (especially Serato team):

www.acm.org

Poor... Poor ethics. It's not gospel, and they're not rules. But you'll never be able to proudly display that you conform to it.

- Matt

No, this isn't going to be a Traktor killer. This is what I call keeping up with Traktor.
Until Serato make up for the "Bridge" debacle by seriously advancing the Sp-6 to make up for it, thereby making it an Ableton LIve-esque feature (akin to sampler functionality in Traktor), then Serato DJ won't be surpassing Traktor, but merely keeping up...though to a lesser degree.

I'm a little buzzed, I hope that makes sense :)

good bye serato hello NI I am really disappointed with all the time and energy and money I have spent with my set up that this is how it ends. Maybe things will change in the future I dunno I don't hate the player I hate the game, but in this case I hate the player and the game cause its obvious the player wasn't looking at its market the people and that the people are asking for and what they need. Folks let your money talk to you there isn't much use in getting angry and frustrated at this point.

Alright, I guess I'm going to have to hand him the shovel to keep digging...

The cases which you cite are not relevant to the subject matter at hand; and if you're implying that you plan to sue Serato and/or Allen & Heath for failure to adhere to obligations regarding warranty and contractual law, then this is not the forum for that and you may have other problems ahead of you beyond future support of a product.

Generally, a product must function as advertised when it is delivered to the user at point of sale. If that product fails to meet that standard upon release, then it is incumbent upon the manufacturer to either recall that product, and/or provide a fix or restitution (aka: Refund) for that product in accordance with that product's warranty (whether defined or implied). When the company fails to do this, then they are violation of that warranty and liable for damages in civil court for failing to honor their warranty. This also goes only so far depending on whether a warranty is implied or defined, the terms of that warranty, it's scope, and whether or not it is limited or all encompassing.

Extended warranties only go so far as to provide a working unit, like-functioning unit, or financial restitution (based on product availability) and are incumbent upon the reseller to honor, not the manufacturer (i.e.: If you buy a laptop right now with a 1 year warranty from Best Buy and buy a 3 year extended warranty from Geek Squad, then Geek Squad is bound to honor that warranty post year 1 where-after the manufacturer warranty is no longer valid and does not have to be honored).

Failure to disclose in the scope defined by this product refers to the failure to disclose of known defects and/or problems with the product.

Product misrepresentation defines that you have advertised something for a product and failed to deliver on it.

Now then, the product in question (Allen & Heath Xone:DX) reached it's end-of-life support period and is no longer even manufactured as it is a discontinued product. Granted the time period between it's discontinuation and now, all manufacturer warranties have likely expired. Therefore, it is no longer incumbent upon Allen & Heath to support the Xone:DX

Extended warranties for the Xone:DX extends only to support of the hardware device itself (Software bundled is not covered by retailer warranties issued at the point of sale - sorry guys who bought that extended warranty from Guitar Center) for the duration of the warranty. Chances are at this point that this has likely expired as well.

Now then, Serato has truthfully, for all intents and purposes, had no liability to support the Xone:DX to ITCH 2.2.2. It was incumbent upon Serato to provide a working product for the Xone:DX at the time of it's release and adequate support for THAT VERSION ONLY for shelf-life of the Xone:DX and warranty period in relation to the last manufacture date.

Serato has not earned a single penny on royalty licensing from Sales of a Xone:DX in over a year. From a business standpoint, development and support for the Xone:DX to this point has been nothing but a pure LOSS for Serato in terms of profit margins. That's simple business and economics.

At no point is a hardware or software company required to support a product past it's E-O-L or else a load of manufacturers and developers would be financially screwed right now. Apple, Google, Motorola, Samsung, LG, etc. No one would survive that onslaught of lawsuits. Technology would never ever progress if Microsoft was required to ensure Windows 8 runs on my old 386, or Apple was required to ensure the next iteration of it's OS runs on my old Apple Macintosh II.

Now then, Serato has provided a working product and seen that product through far past the shelf-life of the hardware device it was manufactured for. Now, I've said this before in this very topic so I'll quote it again:


Now do you really want to keep digging?

(IAAL || YMMV)

LOL! You act like you just served me with all that jargon I don't even care to dissect! Tell ya what, you march on over to the A&H forum and use your own shovel. You'll find bug reports with every version of ITCH from controller launch day till close. I'd say that defines 'failure to deliver' /story.

- Matt

so make 2.2.2
run stable with my big database

Sorry, you started this and now you can't finish it?

Why even bother to use jargon you don't know or understand. It's like someone using words they don't know the meaning to.

I'm not acting like anything. You give every indication of it yourself in your own post. Using terms you don't even know to try to advance your argument? Come on...

just sold my Numark NS6 today, hope the new pioneer doesnt dissapoint me. I was almost convinced with the vci-380 except for the 2 channels, this pioneer is a perfect upgrade for the ns6, not even due to serato dj but includes the velocity pads, slicer, more fx control, hardware based dedicated filters, this is going to kill the ns6 for good if numark doesnt release a controller asap, this is a no brainer since they are at a similar price range.

You mad bro? :) I made my point, Serato has failed to deliver a properly functioning interface for every controller and consistently with every version released. The only difference now is the A&H users just lost their hope of ever seeing it. Instead the get to choose between:

Bugs A
Bugs B
Bugs C
Bugs D

etc, etc..

Bet you're glad the issue doesn't affect you, huh? :)

- Matt

Well now that you mention it, my controller works just fine... Mad? Not in the slightest bit, lol. When you can use terms you actually know and can advance an argument with little more than the words of a childish troll, we'll talk.

Yet you breeze right past my blatant point that they have failed. TWICE.

In fact it was, what? 90 days ago that Scott @ Serato, right here serato.com had to learn from a 3rd party that a company which boasts close relationships with manufacturers had no idea A&H was discontinuing the product. Then he proceeded to state they would still support it. I guess a lot changes in 90 days.

But you keep ignoring whats going on like the Serato poster child that you are bud :)

- Matt

Not really... you asked me if I was... well, I'll just quote:

Well... uh... yeah.

What, am I supposed to not be?



Man, the pot sure is talking to the kettle...

Now if you'll excuse me. I'm going to go stare at my Numark NS7's poster... because... you know... I'm a poster child and all that good stuff...

If things carry on at this rate, by the weekend all of the 34 people in the world who bought a DX will have been on here complaining.

Crazy days!

Haha.

True story...lol

Terry hunter has been beta testing ableton 9. Would love to know if any bridge stuff in there.

lolz.

If they hadn't priced it at almost $2k at launch...

👍

Hum fail = liked lol

Some people just can't be happy, no matter what is given them. Bad karma.

Ha!

Truth

@ djcerla, I am your opinion

I am happy that developed the serato dj software.
I cry for no old controller. let alone controllers that are no longer produced. it would be lost time, having to invest more manpower.

serato has the right partners on board (iZotope / pioneer / vestax ...).
who opts for a controller should know that these are not devices such as cdj 1000 or tedchnics turntable. controller are short-lived and they should also become used by professional DJs!

anyone who thinks that 20 different controller serato can always adapt the latest software release, the dreams!

Why are people bitching about the DX I own one & it has performed flawlessly for me since I bought it and I am not bitter & in fact already ordered the new Pioneer,

Technology advances regardless of what you have put your hard earned $$$ into build a bridge get over it and stop needlessly flapping your gums

Rant over

the xone is one of the few contoller with a endless knob for pitching. If you tried out this, you will love it! Imho Faders a analog history and will die in future ;-)
All new Controler had pitchfader :-(
i also owned a twitch....but not a patch to the Xone...

I would spent 199 $ like the introuser for getting a future support with SERATO DJ with the Xone. I never said, that i expect a lifetime free update. So i could not understand SERATOS statement about missing receipts in future (with the Xone)

ok, it will be very nice! the new Pioneer DDJ-SX looks very similar to the Numark NS6.... good quality from Pioneer :-)

I would have to say the DX has the best mixer section of any controller I have put my hands on to date. Hell, I would almost trade my VCI300 to have one of these again and just use it for something else than Itch.

I still love my Xone DX. Favorite controller I have owned, among NS7 & Traktor S2.

Simple, easy to use. Compact. Great sound. Stable for me on verison 2.2.0

I'll buy the new DDJ SX, but I was thinking of buying an $800 Pioneer RMX 1000 for effects, so I think I am getting more bang for my buck with an $999 DDJ SX

All we can do is wait for what they have for us.......Just Dj the months away........lol

Didn't you once accuse me of pulling statements out of my ass?


'Dear Matthew,


Thank you for your email.


I can confirm that we sold in excess of 4,510 units.


Kind Regards


Lorraine Hartland

Sales Administrator

Allen&Heath'

I have to admit, that is NOT a lot. But it's 4,510 confirmed users that got the finger, not 34. A retail gross of over 4.5 million dollars in sales. They had to switch build houses due to assembly issues at one and presuming minimum production for each was probably floating around a minimum of 5k units per, i'll assume 10k were produced. Not all available for sale, but some are still on shelves. By the time the stock empties out there may be 6-7k users SOL. Mind you this controller was discontinued several months ago, not several years. Everyone is talking like this unit was sold in 1982 to 10 people.

- Matt

You see, what you're confusing there is the difference between stating something as fact, and making a joke.

If I'd have said '2000' users, that might have been reasonably assumed to be a guess at real figures. But 34?

It can be a subtle distinction, I guess.

Nah, I just owed ya a shot and took it. It's all in good fun Bob ;) There was a subtle hint in there though that we shouldn't marginalize that many people with such comments though. They paid hard earned cash just like everybody else and I think what's creeping on my nerves here is the lack of interest in Serato allowing them to upgrade even by paid subscription.

If 1k of those owners upgrade at a cost of $199.00 that's $199,000.00 dollars upgrade revenue. That doesn't justify moving the mapping over to any new format they may have, which I doubt has even changed? When you pass all the questions on the decision, and evaluate the possibilities; this decision just seems personal and I don't get that. Unless of course the concern is A&H is going to ask for royalties on the upgrade sales. Which I don't even know if they are entitled to that. Serato should at least offer an explanation more dignified than 'it's discontinued so we can't support it'

- Matt

Hello Serato Team,

I do have one question: Will "Super Filter" remain in Serato DJ (as an easter egg or possibly as an actual effect) or will it be removed?

If you cannot answer this question at this time, I understand, but it would be a bonus to know it will remain :)

Allen & Heath and serato have finished cooperation. no company invests money into a sinking ship.

A & H dx are apparently no longer competitive.

You're just bad luck that you have bet on the wrong horse.
This can happen .... head high, there are alternatives.

Says who?

What about Denon?

if no successor is more available, I assume!

I explained my view on the DX support in a thread of DX support, I'll copy it here :


Now I'd like to add something here, as Sam (the CEO Sam ?) answered a little more in this thread, arguing that it's because this product is disconiued and no longuer sold.

Can you tell me Sam, is the Rane SL1 not a discontinued product ? The TTM 57 SL ? Did you drop ScratchLive support for these products ??

I think, as someone suggested here, that users would be willing to pay an upgrade to have support. They could understand that your contract with A&H may be over, and that you don't want to invest time & money in a product which won't generate any future income.
What they cannot stand, is being despised just like that, and being the ONLY product in this case (maybe, the MP 4, I don't really know for this one, but that would be a shame too).
What we can't stand, is having such a poor answer.

As I stated earlier, we trust Serato because, while not always having the state-of-the-art software and technologies, we can count on a great product life expectation. At least we could.

Cheers,
Dje

wrong address!

A& H has probably passed by the controller business with serato ....
if you have disappointed a & h, then the company you correct address.

writes A&H, please send us at least 2-5 years for all release serato dj, download fee for example § 200.

Perhaps they pay the expense and send them regularly with the latest release.

and in the end:
can I still use ITCH?
You can continue to use and serato will continue to support the latest version of ITCH for your controller.

Not a wrong address... A&H built a controller, and they built it well...
Serato is, and have always been making the software. They are in charge of that part.

No, they are not; and in terms of software support, they have not (Hardware support, however, is out the window). But, that only extends so far as Serato wishes. Should Serato wish to not continue to provide updates that work with the Rane SL1, they are more than entitled to do so as long as it is not in breach of any contractual obligations they may have with Rane Corporation.

Should Serato wish to introduce a successor to Scratch Live as a whole new product, then no, they would not be required to support those products as it would be outside of the scope of the original arrangement.

how long should serato xone: dx support yet?

1 month? 2 months .... 5 months? 1 year .... 2 years ... or indefinitely
  
Perhaps you have noticed that a controller 2 large partner needs ... software and hardware .... if the hardware is missing partner .... is circuit.
I expect your suggestions, as long as your baby is yet to be satisfied ....

Opinions about your price and duration are located just as far apart as your wish ...

the first version of serato dj will not be without error .... Of course you expect that all bugs for the xone: dx controller free and indefinitely
be eliminated. software errors but one does not exist!

serato has to develop in the future for free new controller features. free, even if they are no longer manufactured.

Now I'm looking forward to your suggestions for how long to develop serato for a & h controller features ..... free, of course ....

I suggest 3 months ..... you can increase

they could sell it like Intro upgrade for 199$. for me the best solution

k...

that's a good idea .... the only problem will be ... how long you want the updates to be delivered? ... but due to the popularity of the controllers would be your suggestion for a good image care serato ...

It's not "the CEO Sam" ;-)

The problem here is : Serato Dj is NOT a new product.
It is only a rebranding of Itch. The name could have been Itch 3.0, it would have been the same, it is only marketing, to have a more consistent range of products, and upgrade path between them (which is one of the strenghts of the Traktor products range).

I assume some large parts of the code was rewritten, but not the whole thing, and is very similar as the Itch 1.x to 2.0.

And it is used as an excuse to drop support... that IS lame, to me.



As Dj-Nice said, an upgrade like the Dj Intro to Dj would be the best solution. Then, they would have to support it as long as possible, meaning until a real hardware problem is preventing them to continue this support. But for 200 bucks, it should be at least 2 years.
That seems feasible : look at Apple, providing support for old iPhones, sometimes with less features on these if the new features rely on new hardware capabilities, but they do it.



Sorry, but if you look at serato.com you will see these products as discontinued.
And they are still supported by Serato.

If the policy is to drop support for discontinued products, then they should make it clear, and be fair by dropping support for ALL discontinued support - of course, it's not my wish, and not the way I consider a serious company.



As stated above, Changing the name of a product for marketing reason is not introducing a new product... it is just called rebranding, like what ATI & nVidia like to do every once in a while when renewing their graphic cards.

And at a price tag of 1200€ when released (about 1600$ USD), it is considered as a premium product. And with premium products come premium services.

4500 people trusted Serato on this one. 7.2 million dollars. Remove the costs, split the rest, what is it, maybe 1.8 millions ? Is it nothing ?
Now let's say maybe 500 customers upgrade. At 200$, it makes it 100.000$. Is it more expansive to add support for this controller ? Is it so specific that you have to rewrite the whole code for it ??
I don't think so.

Thanks Nik39 for the precision :)

Interestingly, nobody has yet speculated that the DX had a very specific, hardware-related issue with the new software.

Which could be a perfect reason for this somehow odd exclusion.

You saw Serato's statement on this Cerla?
They could've said hardware issue and everything would be fine I guess. Until A&H drops a note though :)
But they said discontinued product so that's what people are arguing on.

Did anyone drop a line to A&H?
What do they think about this and are they in contact with Serato?
Did they knew that the DX will be dropped with Serato DJ even before it was announced? What is their decision on this? What's their excuse?

there is also the legal view.

serato software must continue to develop a & h?
a & h may wish that their customer buys another product from them?

for example Xone: 4D DJ worktation

Because this idea doesn't make any sense. I am 99% sure there is no such hardware specific issue - how? We're talking about a software update.

But I wonder whether it has to do with license costs. Since Serato has to do most of the software work and since the money flows into the hardware manufacturers hands first (you buy the hardware from the hardware manufacturers) maybe there isn't simply enough money to fund the development for the A&H+Denon devices. And charging money for one half of the Itch users and not for the other half may look weird. But it may be better than locking out those users who might want to upgrade for a certain fee.

A paid upgrade would be a compromise.

I am just thinking loud.

I was thinking loud, also, based on the fact that the DX never worked absolutely flawlessly as far as I know (my review unit was beyond buggy so I must be a bit biased on that).

;)

That would sorta explain why discontinued controllers by Vestax are still upgradable; maybe not so much code difference between the VCI 300 & 380 since it's the same manufacturer?

I do remember that they had to create a whole new version of Itch to include the xone when it came out...

Like they do for quite every controller, first version is always a specific one for it, and they integrate it in the streamline release after.

I really don't think there is a hardware issue. A cost issue though, maybe, hence the will for having at least a paid upgrade - which is already hard to swallow regarding the price tag of the unit !

~4000 units is a pathetically low number to sell..I'm sure they were just bleeding money with the Xone:DX and are more than eager to kill it off. Business is business folks... you got a lemon (although a very functional lemon).

I believe it has to do with the unwillingness or lack of support from the DX hardware team given that it is a discontinued product, thus resulting in the decision not to have it supported in the new upgrade. The same could be true for any other hardwares if the support is not there.

I could've sworn I just said that...


What Serato wishes to do, as a company, with their product support and declarative of EOL for a product, then that is their prerogative.



With the exception of nVIDIA's blatant re-branding of certain cards (I do know what it is that you speak of), you confuse rebranding for the introduction of a new product. In example, the GTX 680 is NOT the same card as the GTX 580 and is not a re-brand. It is a new product. Comcast (a major cable company and residential ISP in America) to Xfinity is a re-branding effort.


Are you a programmer? I am. You have no idea the amount of man hours exhausted and how much code would need to be written, re-written, debugged, processed, reviewed, and compiled.

Tell you what... I'll offer this up.



That's absolutely basic PHP, but I intentionally made one error. If you can spot it, you can say what it takes to code a program.

I demoed one for some time at Guitar Center myself. It was a horrendous experience.

I suspect it may end up a collector's item in 10 years or so with those kinds of sales figures (if they functionally last that long).

This is an excellent opportunity to sow the seeds of a "real controllerist DJs use Xone DX" meme :D.

Wow Mr. Intelligence speaks...

Come on, man... <?php echo "Hello World!"; ?> would be correct.

Before going to system engineer path, I wanted to be a developer, so I did some C, Assembly, different sorts of Basic... I now mainly use VBS and PowerShell for work. So I think, while not being a developer, I have an idea about what it takes and how much work it represents.

In a software like this one, you have core functions, and drivers that work as bridges to the core functions. I really don't think that the drivers for the DX would be completely different between Itch and Dj.
And a paid upgrade would certainly cover the work needed for the changes.



They both were caught rebranding cards. I didn't say all cards, but entry level ones are rebranded quite every time a new range appears.

Excuse me while I go remove a shoe from my mouth. :P

Dear Serato:

Those of us who bought Itch controllers are stuck with controllers that have ITCH branded on it. Re-selling these units will be very difficult because Itch is End Of Line.

The Bridge for Itch that was promised, where is it?

Secondly; What about those of us who already bought Serato Video? A free serato video license will do exactly what?

No Slicer feature support for Itch owners.

Everyone that bought an Itch controller was hosed! Seriously. In fact it needs to be brought to the attention of those who are buying these OBSOLETE controllers.

Erm, you will still be able to use them with Serato DJ.. I fail to see how they are end of line. End of line is the Xone:DX.

I feel inclined to point out Serato never said this...

I'm just going to put this out there...

Thinking critically about this whole potential "$199 upgrade Xone DX option" for Serato DJ puts things on a whole new level. This may be shocking to the faithful Serato zealots, but I currently opt to use Itch because it was (a) functional and (b) free. If I have to pay for its future equivalent that makes Traktor a viable option that I'm going to have to compare and contrast features with before I even think about spending that kind of money; NI has come a long way since nabbing the "Final Scratch" license from Stanton.

I've never even visited the NI Traktor site until now; apparently the forthcoming version 2.6 upgrade is going to include "flux mode"; its description is as follows:



Sounds a lot like "slip mode" in Serato DJ, doesn't it? That was one of the only "new features" that intrigued me (that and full midi mapping, which Traktor has had allegedly had since forever).

Traktor Pro 2 sells for $89 on their website. $89! There's no way in hell I'd commit to spending twice as much on a program that isn't even released yet that does many of the same things simply because it has an (arguably) less-cluttered gui (remember, we haven't even seen a screenshot yet) and a Serato stamp on it; I'd have to see it in action and understand -why- it's worth all that extra loot. As it stands we don't even know what features would carry over to the DX were it to be included (as stated before not all features will even be available for all controllers with SDJ).

Making sales projections based on blind Serato zealotry (aka the "4500 users x $199 = profit!" model) seems to me like jumping the gun just a bit. I think the folks at Serato know this, hence this statement from Sam in the DX forum:



Makes perfect sense to me...

+1

Unlike some Itch controllers, the DX is a great fit with Traktor Pro. Why you would want to pay double the price of Traktor when neither A&H or Serato want to support your controller is something I just can't get my head around.

I think people are just trying to rationalize with Serato to just offer DX users the support in lieu of the decision to abandon them. Remember, the controller is several months out of production, not several years and it's definitely not out of sales. it seems they can't be reasoned with though. And this topic brings up many other good points regarding the new software and OTHER users.

I am an advocate for the support because i'm in the business myself and I don't own a DX but I feel this is unethical as I pointed out, on a few levels. When companies behave like this they begin to lose the delicate balance between helping customers and helping themselves. They start tumbling towards the 'help ourselves' end, which once branded as that sort of company things typically don't get better in terms of reputation. It's frustrating for me to watch personally.

One of my concerns, if we want to get personal and continue to point out OTHER issues with the new software here, pertains to what I *do* own that's an ITCH product, my VFX-1. I raised a thread a while back about the manual print on ym vfx-1 stating I could select other FX for the custom presets. You would need to pull a copy of the manual to follow along here. At the time the VFX-1 print manual was released in 2009 there were NO other presets in ITCH so the 3 selections were USELESS on the controller. An ITCH FX unit, with 3 useless switch positions and nobody raised any sot of hell. This is how it starts.

I was then informed that Serato was 'kind enough' to add 3 more FX in a patch for a controller that should have had every selection covered at launch since it is an ITCH controller. The selection total is now equal to my physical selection total. Mind you, the print in my manual is still inaccurate 3 years later as I still can't 'select a different effect' for the 3 customs because there are ONLY 3 customs. Following? Mind you the 3 added were useless as two of them I can do on my VCI !! They were lazy attempts to fix a mistake and look like the good guys doing it.

Then along came a spider named 'Serato DJ' with a new FX engine. Now, speculating here (bear that in mind) It does not say these FX are additional to the originals. It just lists the FX in the new engine. So I presume based on the semantics used that these will be our new FX selection. Guess what? I count 10 FX choices. The VFX-1 has 12 selection settings. Did I just take a step BACK 2 choices and end up with an unfullfilled FX controller? Maybe the VFX users should wake up. Maybe *everybody* with an FX unit should start counting their physical choices. Maybe, just maybe they'll patch back in the useless reverse and brake to make it up to us! I can set brake and reverse on my VCI, we ALL can.

Anyone wanna talk about this fresh concern? I'm sure there will be more and very few are being satisfied in any meaningful way. Seems like you have Serato proponents, and people who get the shaft. No wonder the two groups go back and forth like this while they sit back and watch. FWIW, I started a thread on the VCI forum a while back on the FX choices, and got the run around several times before finally settling on the politically correct run around I was given.

- Matt

The reason why is... I didn't even bothered checking Traktor Pro's price. And in my memory it was more like 200$. But 89$... it could be a great way to forget about the cluttered GUI :)

But overall, as Matt stated, it's not really about having the update, but more about the way Serato handles this situation, and their DX customers : poorly.

You blame Serato, but in fact it is A&H that screwed you...
It's their controller which they don't want to support any more.
Numark could have done the same with the V7 (which is also discontinued in production) but they decided to still support it.
See the difference?

as a dj with ten years experience, I had under my hands so much equipment from every brand: gemini, stanton, pioneer, allen&heat, beringher, m-audio, numark, hercules, denon, ecc ecc.
I could say with no regrets that allen&heat equipment is definitely overestimated. It breaks so easily and components quality is not so high! The point is you guy are right to be upset about serato dj support but you need first to ask H&S to make some new deal with serato team 'cause right now they are far away from each other for future collaborations! Sorry!

I don't think anybody would be as upset if Itch had ever performed at the same level that Scratch Live always has. And now here comes that acknowledgement from Serato: "yeah, we know, and we're gonna try & fix it, and we want everyone to forget the whole Itch fiasco so much that we're changing the damn name."

And almost all of us are left out of the upgrade at least initially, so I can empathize with the handful of users who are left out for good. It does suck.

Serato's the only DJ software I can think of that it's possible to get locked out of. All the others just let you set your soundcard & map your MIDI & go, so you might miss some custom features but your stuff will at least keep working.

I don't think so... the hardware is still here, and working. A software upgrade doesn't need any hardware modification IMO. So it is feasable, it's only a question of willing to do it.

That A&H discontinued the product should have no impact over software development, unless a contractual issue forbids Serato to develop any product other than Itch for this controller, which is doubtful.



I only used the DX in A&H products, but I can tell you that, of all gear I used, it was the better sounding one I ever had. Compared to my NS6, it is day & night ! And it doesn't seem fragile, still works perfectly, looks solid... but maybe I don't have enough experience regarding this brand.
However, I don't think their reputation comes from nowhere...

The fact is : compagny pay for HID intégration : Pio pay NI for the cdj 400/900/2000 Tractor Ready (wich mean HID integration), Vestax pay serato for ITCH AND Serato Dj HID integration...

A&H payed for ITCH but since there decided to discontinued the DX there will not pay for Serato Dj and serato team won't spend time/money for free (even a Dj intro/199 depend on A&H).

I've used an A&H Xone 62 for almost 10 years now and it's never failed me (one of the old ones with a fader for master volume control instead of a knob). I tend to take decent care of my equipment though. When I let other more heavy-handed DJs use it sometimes I had to search for missing fader caps at the end of the night from them slamming the volumes so hard that they popped off.

That assumption makes sense IMHO.

www.planetsono.com

Is that a real image, or it is just a mock up?

Im gonna say legit.

but why the FX and SP6 up top and not tabs? I guess we'll need to see more soon.

Looks great BTW.

Eh, I don't know how I feel about that interface. I'll wait till I see it to believe it (and I'm doubtful from the jump, especially looking at that pitch range. +/-100%? Really?)

Look at the time on the decks then look how far the play head is lol FAKE

i don't see what there's not to like, it looks a lot like scratch live. People were requesting that itch look more like scratch live so if this is real, Serato is giving users what they were asking for in dj.I'm pretty sure that the +-100% pitch range is changable

Maybe :)


I hope we will be able to display the FX and Samples at the same time

Also there is video crate but no video tab lol and why the fuck is the bpm HUGE you could read that from a mile away lol.

good job Mr. Watson....lol

good catch!look at the elapsed time and time remaining, then look at the total time of the track, it doesn't add up..

+1 on this being a fake screenshot

Good catch. Also decks 1 and 4 have the exact same times

The biggest clue.. metadta says Origin is : Adobe Photoshop CS6 Windows

fourth deck, third Hotcue is green

actually, his original code works just fine as well.

I've seen some people request this for years and I've always been the dissenting party.


Good spot. I also failed to notice that underneath that ridiculously sized BPM count (which doesn't show 2 decimal places like every single ITCH controller does), it list a REL mode where controllers (not even the NS7 and V7) don't use Relative / Absolute mode because there is no vinyl to track against. That would be absolutely pointless to add.

I won't even point out the shamefully copy and pasted elements from other programs (and that cheap copy and paste of a logo at the top).

1 and 4 have the exact same time stamps.

1, 2, and 4 somehow are at -/+ 0% but are clearly indicated as being pitch adjusted down to 124.6 despite their various BPM displays.

It's highly unintuitive, cluttered, and a joke; Even for a fake image.

No look again. It's start time elapse, not time remaining. Look at total track time and look at time elapse. Legit.

Want to see a horizontal waveform to put things into perspectives.

As much as I love the SSL GUI interface to display track info right onto the dial, I don't think such dependency should rest on a software. I mean, it's what on the hardware that dictates the positions of these track info, right? These just make the screen more crowded and become like Tracktor.

My bad...just saw the top and bottom time display. Never mind....

I still find the screen is way too crowded and this will prompt me to use the computer keypad for input. Not liking it a bit. I'll stick to Itch 2.2.2.....

So if this is legit, tell me, how does 47 seconds and 1minute with 16 seconds equal 7 minutes and 24 seconds on deck 2?
FAKE!

...or extremely buggy. lol

Lol I highly doubt Serato will pump up this software and claim they're so excited for it if the software has problems counting lol

We should play a game and point out all the flaws with the sreenshot!lol

I've found like 4 or 5 that leads to this being fake

I think Papa Midnight nailed a few of them about 7 posts back...

I wouldn't laugh about OR dismiss that at all.. ROFL..

Another question to put out there...

Is there any such thing as a "bugless" DVS? So far the only one I've ever used that came close to that was SSL 1.9.2. but it may have just had bugs that didn't affect me or that I didn't notice/consider "bugs" (like "choppy waveforms" and such)...

If this is real then i am quite happy becauses this looks more like sl than itch. Sl has all the important information shown in one place - the virtual decks. I hate how the information is spread across different places in itch becuas it is simply less ergonomical. Now do we need the bigger bpm values? I personally think it is helpful, but maybe not really soooo needed. I guess many djs will use ... Sync anyway.

Imo it looks a BIT cluttered

Cmon...its showing 4 decks!

i must have scrolled right past it.lol I noticed all the ones he noticed.

Don't know exactly what you mean by this(as in if you're implying its fake cause its showing 4 decks or implying its real cause its 4 decks) but if you're thinking its real, you are aware that there isn't going to be 4 decks for 2 channel controllers right?atleast bot in the first release

4 decks = more information. Of course it will look crowded. Have you ever used 4 decks in Itch or SL before?


Well, are you aware that the first release will only support the Pio SX and that the Pio SX is indeed a 4 deck controller? ;)

The more SeratoDJ looks like ScratchLIVE, the happier I'll be!

That image above is likely a FAKE, but I hope the GUI ends up looking similar to it. Perhaps not exactly like it, though if it did, I would have no complaints.

My hope is that eventually ScratchLIVE & SeratoDJ merge into one program, and I know I'm not the only one that longs for that kind of flexibility.

Nail == Head.

I want the scratchability of SSL and the controllerism of itch all at once. If I knew this was coming I wouldn't be investigating if Traktor can already do this :\ Which it looks like it can :(

@jprime, you lost me. what can you do on traktor you cant do on serato? Im not being shitty im really asking. im curious.

Use a DJ controller + external midi devices + DVS all with the same program.
SSL you can use MIDI + DVS but no controller.
Itch only a controller.
SDJ Controller + MIDI but no DVS

.... any questions?

:) 'zactly

@freestyle:

If Serato DJ were Traktor, you could plug tables into the channel 3 & 4 inputs on the new Pioneer SX and scratch with them OR the jogwheels for channels 1 & 2--in the same software, no hassles. No SL box or separate hardware required.

This is how Traktor's main controller (S4 or something like that?) works.

It's not -quite- that simple... if I were to use Traktor with the Xone DX, I'd still have to get an NI interface (the A10 or A6) to use the DVS feature with it. I doubt they included that functionality in the Pioneer since it doesn't have their brand on it anywhere; I think it only works with NI hardware controllers.

You know, I would take a compromise right about now. How about Serato just give us a plugin for SeratoDJ which will allow for DVS operability, but at the same time you have to connect the SL-1/2/3/4 as a dongle. This way, Rane still get their money, and we the customers, get the functionality that we've been craving for years.

I KNOW THIS CAN BE DONE!

+100

That would also work for me just fine. +1329.63

I didn't mean to imply you could use non-NI controllers that way in Traktor, it was just an akward analogy to point out that there IS a 2-jog, 4-channel controller for Traktor that can do DVS, which is way beyond anything possible with Serato.

I think this is the way things will end up.

If you compare to traktor --- this is exactly how it works. You can use Traktor with a controller but for timecode (traktor scratch) you need to upgrade your software license and you need a certified soundcard. I think Serato DJ could fill the controller portion and if you wanted timecode you would use a Rane card but ALL within the same software.

Makes sense to me. As of right now, SSL and Serato DJ are still different. Which leads me to ask are the iZotope effects going to make their way to SSL...and what about the boat load of effect in SSL like roll out. Will those make it over to Serato DJ. Would be great if it was all one platform.

Rane will make a controller, and it will be the only one that offers DVS built-in.

Hopefully it won't be as expensive and have as many issues as the 68 did.

Interesting thought though, if Rane were to build a controller, would be under Serato DJ or SSL?

SeartoDJ Scratch Live Pro Mark I

Hopefully Serato DJ, because they need to unify everything they've got & make it as amazing as possible to start beating down Traktor.

That may not be how they see it, but meanwhile NI is trying to cut into 62 & 61 sales with a similar product that's half the price.

Hopefully Rane has something to show at NAMM.

Just make the damn Plugin, and we can avoid Rane having to make a controller. Hell, I don't even think that will ever happen. If Rane did make a controller, wouldn't that be kinda' redundant? I mean, Serato would have to support two distinct programs, that do the same thing....that makes no sense!


Yeah, hopefully it will be an EmpathSL w' (2) USB ports.

I would DEFINITELY buy that!

Relax, I have an ns6, I always have 4 decks. &it doesn't look crowded in terms of there being so many buttons

Yeah, but have you ever seen ScratchLIVE with 4 decks?

pretty crowded.

That, I admit, I have not. Not really digging the crowded look. Regardless of how the GUI looks on Serato dj, I hope its a bit customizable. This way, everyone who likes the ssl-style GUI can opt for it while others also have the option to have less on the screen.

I have. ITCH does it better in my opinion.

I am thinking out loud here but the term of the agreement between Rane and Serato for SSL exclusivity has gotta come to an end pretty soon. Unless it is a lifetime agreement so long there exist DVS and in return, Rane stay out of the controller business. Would that be a wise business decision? Time will tell but Rane so far has built a solid reputation. I would love to see one day a Rane controller.

As far as Serato DJ GUI being close resemblance of SSL, I don't think it will do any good unless the plan is to eventually integrate the two. Maybe by that time we will see a Rane controller? One could only hope.

Personally, the Serato DJ GUI should not be borrowed from SSL simply because each serves different purposes. On a DVS, functionalities that cannot be triggered on the hardware could and should be displayed on the computer screen for input from the keyboard or trackpad. However, the same cannot be done on a controller system because that would make Serato DJ like Traktor or VirtualDJ, crowded GUI and not very intuitive.

I agree.

Even my SL3 takes up madd real estate, but that wasn't the point.

Vestax have written an .XML to control ScratchLIVE via ITCH Hardware (VCi-380), so there is no reason that Serato can't do the same. It is possible. I think the Plugin idea is easiest. After all, that's all that Vestax have done. You still need the Rane hardware for functionality. Though if Serato/Rane were to work out an agreement, we could get MIDI out, and get those LEDs lit up!

Imagine....Serato would be just like Traktor.....all the same software, but w' different hardware to access it from. It makes the most sense, and it's what I hope the eventual outcome of this 2nd overhaul to "SeratoDJ" shizz is all about.

When "Intro" was released, many of us were like, "this isn't going to work, because, Intro needs an upgrade path". Well, it's obvious now that this was the plan all along. Perhaps, since they are putting so much emphasis on updating the Intro/ItchSeratoDJ software with updated Izotope effects & whatnot, that there will be an "eventual" integration of ScratchLIVE into that platform.

Before long, SSL peeps are gonna be screaming for the Izotope Effects, and some of them (me) have already been calling for SP-6 Sync. It only makes sense to eventually merge the two.

The future could belong to Serato, just as it did in the past, if they were to only work out whatever Drama/Legalities that are needed to make this a reality.

It would make sense for them to come together right now. For the first time ever, Serato's controller software might be ahead of Scratch Live features-wise. All the SL users would get an upgrade out of the merge, so it becomes an easier idea to live with.

Add that to the fact that there's been less Scratch Live branding on recent hardware just like the Itch logos disappeared, and the fact that controllers are getting better all the time & DJs' attitudes about them are changing.

Regarding the DVS, I think when you buy a controller that expansive, you could get this feature out of the box, without having to buy a Rane SL device.
I never understood why SSL wasn't supported by Itch devices... CDJs, or others players, can control SSL using HID mode, but not a 1000$ controller developped partly by/for Serato.
Is there a contractual exclusivity with Rane ?

From my understanding - yes.

That needs to go, or at least ease up. It's not like anybody's gonna replace Rane either way.

nice cant wait

If I'm Rane that's not gonna happen. That contract stays tight and exclusive.

I hate the fact that slicer will not be able to map in serato dj!!!!

r u sure ?

Yes

The Slicer was a unique selling point for a range of 'performance' controllers and i chose the Twitch as The Slicer was unique to that particular controller (at the time). It was exciting as I got to play with a function that the hardware was designed around and not 'tacked on' like most things in the DJ world. That and it was exclusive. I bought into the Slicer.

By opening up the Slicer for everyone i feel it could look like it's kinda 'tacked on' unless it's done right. Light feedback is very helpful in this mode and also the two rows of four buttons are the logical arrangement of the Slicer so MIDI mapping wouldn't be logical unless using an MPC. This is also something you don't get in Itch, light feedback. Yes it can be done without but it helps and keeps it's continuity.

I think it would be a while before it's added to non-slicer controllers (if ever). I think it would undermine the new breed of 'performance' controllers a bit if it was retro fitted to old models. I could be wrong though but its just the way I think they may see it at Serato towers.

We could all have it if Serato would "simply" (LOL) add MIDI Out to their software.

Looks like it wasn't a fake.

It's still off a bit. Looks like an earlier interface w/ some photoshopping. Also the Deck information isn't accurate. You have 126 BPM with a current 124 BPM and the deck showing 0% pitch change.

ya i think it was a leaked photoshop mock up from serato them selfs... HATE the MASSIVE bpm read out no need for it tobe the biggest thing on the screen. but ya like it apart from that.

Totally agree with the fact it was a doctored image as the inconsistencies pointed out earlier in the thread are way too obvious but it's exactly the same GUI we seen today as we have in the photoshopped one we seen the other day. There is CUE data looks different but that will just be the mode its in.

I could be wrong but it seems from first glance that it was only deck data that was manipulated maybe to send out as press packs to the online outlets as the original screenshot may have contained no tracks on the decks or something they had to censor like track names? Just a thought.

I like it and think it will be interesting to see a GUI that closely resembles that of Scratch Live.

I actually got a full on looking at the pioneer ddj-sx.

I'm on a vci-300 right now and was looking to upgrade to the vci-400 but then news of this drops and I am in love.

it's kinda big though... 26x14

but It needs to be. hopefully it still works as a carry on... I'd hate to have to check it.
baggage handlers always steal shit and break things

Now you can see the official screenshots on the seta dj section of the web :)

on the "serato" dj section

Probably no one will agree with me but I think Serato DJ shouldv'e merged all the Serato itch controllers as the final step to Fading Itch out and provided the first licenses free of charge to all its itch users and if it is impossible to support Dx then to offer some sort of equipment exchange program I mean lets talk facts the DX and Itch havent been around for any real lengthy period of time Serato has placed themselves under a very difficult challenge and I think the future of the company is at stake.. it would've made more sense to merge with atomix the makers of Virtual DJ and build on that platform to compete in the controller arena first off it eliminates a competitor and secondly VDJ sounds awesome and works great I even use they're Music service wich helps me find new music that I would've otherwise never found, if that were to be combined with better fx from Izotope you'd have a real product not this Second cousin to the Itch Failure that said I think I'll wait 3-5 years before investing my money into new software or hardware from Serato

Nope i 100% dont agree. Im really happy with serato it makes me money! But each to there own i guess.

Uhh.. yeah I kinda luv my serato too but it looks like Serato DJ will deliver what Itch promised to deliver at a higher premium than the competetion with less features for example every thread I read promises that Serato DJ will never have timecode capabilities that alone will make Serato DJ an inferior Product and since you cant use your controller with scratch live your pretty much screwed the DJ of yesterday is not the DJ of tomorrow Artists don't want to be trapped and the DJ is becoming more of a performing artist Thats why there was so much excitment when Scratch Live added "The Bridge" of course that didn't exactly pan out as a plug N play option to release your creativity but there are DJ's out there who perform Well even with the limitations for serato to succeed they need better sync better key detection better key locking more hardware integration and Vision wich is something they are lacking at the moment

BTW Wools undercutting Real DJ's for a chance to spin and a Bar Tab doesn't count as "making money" but each to their own...

I understand 'working DJ's' take that capitalist move personally. But it doesn't negate the fact that he is indeed 'making money' you're just upset that it's 'your money' or shall I say 'was your money'. You guys can be mad about that all ya want, but at the end of the day it comes down to the bar and club owners, not the undercutters.

If a bar or club owner will take a cheaper DJ over you, you have to ask yourself 2 questions:

1: Does the owner really need my skill level present? Because maybe they don't.
2: Does my skill level leave an impression on the owner where I am a 'must have' DJ?

Both of which are not his fault or his problem. This is supply and demand at it's finest. It's the very bane of capitalism. If the owner doesn't want or need a Bentley, they're not going to pay Bentley prices. Conversely their not going to pay for a Bentley and drive around in a Cavalier. You as a 'DJ' are a 'product' in a 'market' and people will buy you based on features and benifits. If they get all the features and benifits they need for 50 bucks and a bar tab, you don't blame the other product! It's amazing how people feel entitled to things these days.

- Matt

It's your prerogative on how you wish to operate because at the end of the day your only cutting your own throat. Equipment wears out and no amount of free drinks or P***Y you get can keep the mortgage paid or your lights on .. Those are just the facts and as far as entitlements go yeah it's a little upsetting that your talent can take a no name Bar or Nightclub and make it a successful business and the minute someone offers a lower price you get ousted since it takes alot of pride in your work and dedication to your artform to create a vibe and establish a crowd just to see it ruined. but to be honest the trend in America is changing and although I have to travel more the pay is better and since the economy is down there are more nightclub upstarts than ever before the ones who hire amatuers quickly fail and it makes it easy to find cheap gear and the Bars who hire professionals Succeed

anyhow thats my speel on the subject Much respect Matt keep doing you