I like the second one,
although many users, like yourself, will use stickers on the records, a lot of users, like me, just use the markers on the screen, on the screen you don't have a cart as a marker, so it is important that the cue points occur at 12 O'Clock.
Your second suggestion seems like a good mixture of the two, only trouble is it's not as clear how far away the marker is. With the current system you can see how many revolutions off you are.

we could still have the sticker fill in with each revolution. the mark could fade in as well. and with the second the mark would be on point at 12 o' clock, it just wouldnt line up with the line sticker. see the red cue point is sitting just before 12, when it hits 12 its on.

I just think something should be done because right now I just find it hard to use the cues because it makes my stickers useless. 1983 style, I dont want to look over at the computer, let me focus on the vinyl.

totally agree, lets find a way to focus on the vinyl and make SSL cue points markers to mimic the old way...

Just like to explain quickly why the way it is implemented right now (markers get aligned to 12oclock position) is quite neat. Imagine you got a song with a very important position (break, downbeat which is hard to find or similar), now you assing a cue point, all you gotta do is cue as long as you can see the cuepoint bar, then cue until it gets bigger so long as its a full bar and then if it reaches 12oclock you know that you are exactly at the cue point. This is rather uncomplicated and is easy to deal with.

I think if it would more difficult if it reaches its full position at some other angle than at 12o'clock.

But I also understand your point Akiem, so maybe having a 2nd full bar which does NOT change its orientation would be a good compromise, while keeping the old cue point bars which change their orientation.

Besides that I like your suggestion, haven the markers displayed on the outer ring of the virtual decks.

I just wanted to bring this into 2008!

Being able to lock the Virtual Label to the real vinyl would make the Virtual Label information into useful information (for people who sticker the real vinyl)

As it is now, I dont even look at the Virtual Labels for anything.

young bloods need to recognize

2009?

dont most DJs sticker their vinyls?

(or is it just me)

Great suggestion AKIEM, maybemake it an option?

BAddump.

yup, I still think the virtual label should always correspond to the actual label. (optionally)

+ 1

yes, especially in RELEVANT mode

haha "RELEVANT mode"
the other modes arnt?


YES, I swear if it was implemented this way from the beginning, no one would have thought it strange in the least. No one would suggest that it works the way it does now with the sticker jumping all over the place. If it makes sense the way it is now - it makes the less sense of the two.

all modes could benefit from this. I'm pushing for a new mode that keeps the cue points RELEVANT to the sticker on the record for drop2cue and cuestart.

;-)

+1

Dude, it's RELATIVE! :D

I know about RELATIVE mode. RELEVANT mode is the next level. "Mark" my words.

ah - gottcha :)

well, Im not sure that it really needs a 'new mode' - wouldnt a checkmark option in the setup be enough? or is there more to RELEVENT mode?

That's the big question. How would a new feature like that get implemented in way that the most users receive benefit.

the way it is now - I bet that most users who use real stickers on the vinyl pretty much completely ignore the virtual stickers on the gui. The reason is that the two will only correspond when you make them by putting your vinyl in position then hitting a cue. And then it is only locked to that cue. Mine never correspond because I always use my carts as the mark. So for me (and I bet most) the virtual stickers are meaningless, they surve absolutely no purpose.

There are times when I am looking at the gui that I would like to look at the virtual labels and gain information about the rotation of my real vinyls.

I still feel that SSL has it wrong here.

those features work if you offset your mark to the cart. However they still don't match the virtual marker. It would be sweet if there was options for Battle/Disco style and for 12oclock/cart location.

my argument on the marker features is this is something that no other DVS has. I know most people don't use markers or don't care, but I think more would if they knew how to use it.

Honestly I'm just starting to scratch and juggle after just worrying about mixing for a dozen years. Once I started using the marker system I found that I was more accurate when loading songs and doing quick mixes. Shaving a second here and there really made a big deal to me.

Also, when I trust my cues to match my marked records I look at the laptop even less and for that reason alone I'm hoping this aspect of SSL gets some love.

I see Nik's point about how the virtual mark showing progress toward cues would look odd at a different angle, but that whole system is odd anyway. If you have 2 cues close to each other it gets thrown off anyway.


I would rather have the virtual marker stay true to the record sticker* in all modes.

*Assuming the sticker is set-up correctly

yup - I see Niks point as well.

We have actually had some very in depth discussion about this matter. I have always maintained that that comes from the 'belief' or being used to 12o'clock being an important location in the rotation. - this is why on real vinyl people would have lots of stickers that only mean something at 12o'clock. I never had this issue because I always used my carts as the mark then learned that ANY degree can be a mark. And it really did not make sense to put a sticker down for every kick and snare for every song on the record. All you do is notice what degree each kick and snare is at.

AND the same lesson or way, could apply to the virtual label. let the cue hit the mark wherever, at any degree - not just 12. If the rotation reaches the cue and it is at 3o'clock for example - then so be it.

I personally have absolutely no reason to be watching the rotation of the label as it nears the cue and reading how many rotations it is to the next cue - and I imagine that hardly anyone is actually doing that. plus the cue points are on the wave anyway, you can still see it approach.

all I know is it would make the virtual labels have some meaning for the people who dont play from the gui - and use the equipment to spin. It would be a better integration of hardware and software.

I swear this should have been the way it was implemented from day one and there would never have been a suggestion to make it the way it is now.

Yep, yep. :)

I am doing it.

In that way I always know the upcoming time it takes until we h

In that way I always know the upcoming time it takes until it hits the cue point and I dont have to think about the angle (cause you would have to take this in account)

couldn't that still work if the Virtual Marker (VM) followed the Record Marker (RM)

it would change the angle of your dangle but still keep you in the heat of the beat

No. How would you know at which angle (whether on the VM or the RM) it would hit the cue point?

what if....

the cue point set up on the virtual deck at the location it would hit in relation to the record, but there could be a tapered tail (like a crescent moon) on either end that would serve the same function.

then at a quick glance you would still seen when your cues are coming up, but you wouldn't have to mentally process how long the colored bar is in relation to how many rotations until it hits

I guess that would all be dependent on where your first cue point is in each song. nevermind....

right you would know ahead of time the angle - unless the cues showed up around the edge of the label.

curious: what kind of cues are you watching approach, is it that you for example have a cue at the end of the chorus and then watch it approach then bam hit a loop or something?

and did you do that with real vinyl?

because I wonder wonder if it were never implemented the way it is now, would it be something that you need?

^@Nik

and this is why I am suggesting a new mode called RELEVANT. If you change things like this, a lot of people will bitch and wine just because there was a change from what they were used to.


just throwing it out here, but this came from DJ Quartz

Auto-relative mode.

Stays in absolute mode until you hit a cue point or set a loop, when it just switches into relative mode.

Then when you put the needle back to the lead-in, it switches back to Absolute mode.

makes sense to me.

see, I dont think it really needs a mode
just an optional behavior - people are used to it the way it is, it should not change

but a simple option, it should even be a more simple function, its like the way it is now is 'over thought'

just an option: the gui always matches the vinyl
very simple

either way....

"the way it is now" isn't working since 2.1 at least for the cuestart

whats the 'cuestart' ?

puts your first cue on the marker on the record.

wow - I must have missed that altogether

I hear you Akiem, this is one of the two biggest things I'm trying to get used to in SSL.

Coming from the Traktor side I'm used to the sticker position always following the on screen reference because it never moves.

Regadless of ABS or REL mode the sticker position is locked to the screen reference at all times.

Hence how a regular piece of vinyl would be marked. I'll be frank and say I don't like the whole jumping to 12'o clock functionality.

I understand it fundamentally, but I don't always want to move my vinyl to the 12'o clock position. Wherever I hit my cue, that's where I want it to be.

Not to mention deck duplicate following the same rules.

There should be an option to disable that 'jump to 12'o clock' feature and the reference point remain locked to the absolute position fed from the control vinyl.

Another issue is the lack of automatic ABS vs REL mode behavior. Traktor behaves way differently in this area.

The drop to absolute feature fixes this, KIND OF. It doesn't always pick up the new position right away and it ignores the lead-in.

So I have a tendency to backcue too far and have the needle fall off the vinyl because I'm used to being able to drop on the lead-in and absolute mode would switch on automatically in the Traktor world.

When I hit a cue point or loop, then relative mode would be turned on. But until then I'm always in absolute mode.

So those are the couple timecode control related issues I'm experiencing right now.

I didnt know Traktors sticker was locked to the vinyl.

Traktor got it right then - imo

for the same of seeing this make it into the program soon.

an option on the set-up screen to have the VM follow the RM will do the trick.

*edit

yes

But this is how the option "drop to abs mode" works, right?

Is that a statement or question? If it's a statement, I don't understand it.



Yeah, something like that. With some tracks you can count of course... but some tracks are kind of odd, where the cues help me.


No, but I could have done that.


That's not the proper way to approach this issue.

The current way is beneficial for me - this is what counts for me. Not whether I would have needed it if I havent know about it ;)

I bet there is a "best of both worlds"

It doesn't always work as I was saying in my previous comment.

Statement, If cue markers showed up around the edge of the label you would see exactly where it was whatever the angle.




yes - I am only half making a point and half just enquiring.




but I think that it is likely that if it were done the way I am suggesting, no one would suggest that it be done the way it is now. the way it is now is just strange. I understand wanting the cue to hit at 12, but making the sticker jump around to achieve it makes no sense to me. And I understand wanting to see where the upcoming cue is going to hit - but that could be achieved with cue marks around the edge of the label.


my theory:
1) on the gui you want a virtual label
2) the virtual sticker on the label should correspond to the sticker on the vinyl label
3) adding cue points - since a jumping label makes 0 sense - put cue markers around the edge of the virtual label.
4) now if people want cues always at 12 there are several options


enough about what I think should have happened or what I would have done...


Can we please have an option that locks the virtual label to real vinyl?

Ah, you mean on the screen. I was like... huh? Cues on the vinyl??


I like who everything stays in SL in one place. The eyes dont have to move back forth back forth (for example when ligning up the waveforms (I mean the overall waveform).



No offense....I hope you dont mean me when saying "you want" - I know what I want ;) I don't want "cue markers around the edge of the virtual label". At least not in theory.

How?


That sounds more like a bug than a conceptual issue, right? How does it ignore the lead-in? The lead in-acts as a lead in...


I can't follow you. If I drop to the lead-in then the track restarts (jumping into a lead-in sort).

nah, I mean "you" as in anyone




you mean so you are only looking at the 12 position?


There is the 'Second Way' (I guess I will cal it)
That would be that the virtual label would jump instead of virtual sticker. The virtual label being the label plus the cue locations around it. This way the nearest cue would always be at 12. Essentially this is the way it works now except there would be a graphic unity between the two different ways. And to make it cooler the label could rotate instead of jump. That would give you some information about the distance between cues that you do not get now.

a) The virtual sticker is locked to the the real vinyl sticker. Cues appear at any degree around the virtual label.

b) The virtual sticker is not locked to the real vinyl sticker. Cues marks appear around the edge of the label - the label rotates so the nearest is always at 12

This is the way I think it should be done, these two options. But I would be happy with just the simple option to keep the virtual sticker locked to the vinyl sticker no matter what.

Maybe ... it's habbit, but I don't want to search around for the other markers, I think.


Can you post a mockup?

That info can also easily be seen in the track overview as well perhaps even easier.

I have a hard time believing that you depend on looking at the 12 o clock position in order to find how many rotations you have coming up before the next cue. That would mean you

Look at your screen
Narrow in on 12 o clock on your virtual deck
Look at the bar which is the virtual sticker
Assess length and color of cue
Calculate number of rotations
Look back at record
While you are watching, count rotations
Then you can bust your trick

But at that instant the sticker on the screen moves to 12 o clock

I'm just trying to make conversation, not Saying your lying or anything

I'm just saying that is a system that you became used to because of scratch live. I think if this were adjusted you could adapt. I mean before ssl, you used your ear right and you knew the record. That would still be the case.

C'mon no one here completely depends on it - it's just that it makes it easier.


Probably.

honestly, I have times where that system confuses me. Especially when there are cues close together in the track.

the way it is now

I understand that.

On the other hand I can quicly spot the middle of a 16 bar... If I don't have enough time (I missed to bring in the track properly on the 1st bar) I can quickly move almost to the middle, find the sweet spot between two cue points by watching when the bar jumps - that's exactly in the middle between the cue on the 1st bar and the cue on the 16/17th bar.

now we have beat grid, we can just look for the number 9

my argument for changing this:

[b]DVS in the DMCs....

Scratch Live will dominate[/b]

/stickied

bold fail

This only works obviously on beatgridded tracks.

true.

I find myself doing some quick math sometimes on tracks I haven't adjusted yet.

Just as I explained, Traktor will always remain in ABS mode if you wish. If you decide to loop or use a cue point it will automatically switch to REL mode because it knows you have to be in relative mode to use to those features.

But it stays locked to the sticker position on the vinyl so the screen reference and sticker on the vinyl are always in sync.

It has a switch to absolute mode on lead-in so it forces ABS mode no matter what everytime you drop the needle on the lead-in. So it was always play from the beginning of the tracks if you enable this option.

What I'm finding in SSL is the drop to absolute position doesn't always detect successfully.

Just as I explained, Traktor will always remain in ABS mode if you wish. If you decide to loop or use a cue point it will automatically switch to REL mode because it knows you have to be in relative mode to use to those features.

But it stays locked to the sticker position on the vinyl so the screen reference and sticker on the vinyl are always in sync.

It has a switch to absolute mode on lead-in so it forces ABS mode no matter what everytime you drop the needle on the lead-in. So it was always play from the beginning of the tracks if you enable this option.

What I'm finding in SSL is the drop to absolute position doesn't always detect successfully.

As asked before: Bug? This should be posted in the Help section. doesn't sound like a conceptual issue.

Could be but here is a replication....

- Switch to INT mode
- Drop the needle on the lead-in

It will take a few seconds to switch back to REL mode, but then you have to pick up the need again and drop it for it to detect the new absolute position.

The way it should work is once you drop the needle on the lead-in it should switch back to REL and also enforce the new absolute position which would be 0 or a reset. However it's communicated to the virtual deck.

This would eliminate adding a Switch to absolute mode type of option to the setup menu.

First off, ignore the way the Virtual Label looks. I am using a rendering from a different suggestion to give it a 'cleaner look' - the thiner 'length of song' ring around the edge.

djkoolakiem.com
If we had a simple option to make the Virtual Sticker always match the vinyl, that would be enough as far as I am concerned. There would be nothing different looking about it, just different behavior. I think the filling of the Virtual Sticker with the colors of the cues can even be eliminated for the most simple form of the option. I would guess that this would be "mechanically" much simpler and cleaner if that makes a difference.

djkoolakiem.com
Now if we really need to know precisely where the Virtual Sticker strikes the cue we could have 'Cue Marks' that would show up around the edge when within a rotation of a cue. In this example the red cue is at about 20 or so degrees from 0, and the Virtual Sticker is about 1/4 turn from striking the cue. If you were to tap on the red cue at this point the red mark would jump to the exact current location of the Virtual Sticker. Repeatedly tapping it would just keep moving it to the current Virtual Sticker location.

djkoolakiem.com
Here is an example of what the sticker would look like being filled in as it approaches the cue. There would have to be a rule about which was on top - nearest, or according to time or whatever. And yes you would get some 'data loss' concerning one color behind another or whatever. I think that would be a minimal trade-off if even needed.


djkoolakiem.com
This is an example of what it would look like using the current behavior but making both options look the same. Or otherwise put, adding the 'Cue Markers' to the outside edge of the Virtual Label as an added feature and so both look the same. So the Virtual Sticker would jump around 'like normal' yet and the 'Cue Marker' would show show up at 12o'clock when the Virtual Sticker nears the cue. Here is what it would look like as the Virtual Sticker nears the green cue djkoolakiem.com . It *might* be interesting if the cues around the edge rotated by animation (or it might look to crazy instead of just jumping) If you click back and forth between the last two images you can kinda see how it would look if they jumped instead of a smooth animation that looks like the Virtual Label rotating. And this would give the same information as the sticker filling in; how near the cue is (just in a different format)

Perfection IMHO would be these settings:

a) 12o'clock (current sticker behavior)
vs
b) Locked Sticker (Virtual Sticker locked to the Real Vinyl)


Label fills with Cue Color
off/on
a) nearest color on top
vs
b) chronological order


Cue Markers around Labels edge
off/on
a) Markers Jump (or fade in when near)
vs
b) Markers Animated Rotation








And again to be critical, I really believe Serato got this wrong. If it were implemented the way I am suggesting in the first place, no one would suggest that it be done the way that it is now. I just cant imagine someone suggesting that the Virtual Sticker should be disassociated from the Real Vinyl and jump around in what looks to me unpredictable and erratic.

Nik, I think the point about you needing it as it is now, you adapting to it (nothing wrong with that) is just to point out that the decision to make it the way it is now seems 'arbitrary' instead of calculated. Likely you would have adapted to it ether way.

And I think that is maybe importent in understanding the logic behind the reasons for doing it this way or the other.

Since the software is supposed to emulate Real Vinyl... When I learned to clock records (long sticker strips that would otherwise go on blank cassette tapes) I found you could put the record at the first kick, and place the sticker pointing to the needle for precision. Then you could put one down for the snare. Well what about the next snare, and what about the other cuts on the record? Very easily my label could fill up with a jumble of stickers. This is exactly the way SSL is dealing with the issue only trying to clean it up by magically making the stickers disappear and reappear. Eventually I learned that a single sticker was all that was needed, just read the dagree of the location and not worry about what that degree is. If the kick hits when the sticker hits the needle, or the pop up light, fine. Or if the kick hits at the stop.start button, thats fine too. It does not matter the degree. One sticker can mark an infinite number of locations if you are reading the degree - that verses only being able to read as many locations as how many stickers you can deal with before its all a jumble.

The way it is now seems to ascribe some magical property to the 12o'clock location - why should it? Is it because of magnetic north? Its almost superstition to arbitrarily imprint that orientation onto the turntable.

love the renders

that is exactly what I was visioning

especially the 2nd scenario
djkoolakiem.com

I totally agree with 1 mark and multiple mental "angle references"

If you are really using this system it would make complete sense to have your record lined like the virtual deck you have rendered above.

Then in a flash, you could tap a cue and get an instant visual reference of what angle your next cue will fall at. The sticker on the record will NEVER change, so if the GUI adjusted to the sticker it would be SUPER INTUITIVE!

Watchwww.youtube.com

yes #2 :)

As bonus - just think how many people have vinyl incorrectly stickered. To use this option they will probably need a ton of $ new vinyl $

haha.

how i use clock/cues-

REL MODE

Then move record to desired postion, in your case clock marker at needle. Hold still

Press the cue button.

Now your marker starts where you want.....(fair enough the screen view will be at 12 but you should be looking at record markers anyway)

Hope that helps you.

well yes, that is what I do to match both records.....

....thats not what the issue is.

One revolution is probably not enough. If you have more than one revolution you have the issue of possibly overlapping/clashing cues on the outer edge.



That reminds me of the evil-lollipop [tm] ;)

It looks to complicated. One of SL keypoints is simplicity.



Hey, you're ignoring me ;) The jumping bars makes sense if you want to keep the cue points at 12.



Sure, that could be. Neither of us could tell with high confidence.



I agree, you can adopt, and a varying degree doesn't make it impossible, but a fixed degree simplyfies things.

yes, there would have to be a rule that dictated the behavior. Maybe the nearest would be on top or chronologically the earliest would be on top. But how often would that really come into play? How often would two of the five stickers end up on top of each other? 120 bpm songs that 'resonate' with the speed of the label would be more prone to it and so on. But I think there is a lot of space around the edge I dont see it being a problem - its a trade off.

I see a sort of equivalent trade off with the way it works now - if you have several cue points near each other the effect on the sticker -making it jump- does not allow you the full rotations to determine how close you are to the cue.





I dont know - the way I see it this would be a simplification. Mechanically I think it would be more simple - not needing the sticker to jump. Everything would be fluid, there would not be elements disappearing and reappearing. Also not to be saying too much - the evil lollipop had lots more going on making it 'evil' and was more of a compromise then different option if I remember correctly. But really the way it is now is more complicated to me. The other thing is that I would actually be happy there where no cues on the label at all - even more simple - it just locks to the vinyl period.




well yes - it should be optional.

But I really do wonder if you (as well as everyone else) would not simply have adapted to using it the way I propose it should be. As I think most people who use it the way it is now have had to adapt to it anyway. I mean there really is not a precedent - the sticker does not jump around on the real vinyl label. There is however a strong precedent for the sticker to stay in place on the real vinyl label (well since it is literally stuck on)


I think there is precisely two sides of the coin here. The importance of the sticker aligning with 12 o'clock vs the importance of the virtual sticker staying true to the real vinyl. Both have equal trade offs. Nether one provides ALL information ALL the time. But only one really has the precedent of working the way the vinyl works - and I think there should at least be an option for it to work that way.




true

But we can say with high confidence that I find that the way it is now is not something I have adapted to. Outside of setup, I certainly do not look at the GUI for much of anything other then selecting from the library. The feedback from the label is useless to me. (not entirely bad since I don't like looking at the screen while playing) But as things progress, especially getting into the 'live production' ableton type stuff, I would absolutely like to integrate better with the GUI - and this will always be a stumbling block for me as long as I use vinyl.

brings me to another point. I did not want to make this suggestion less we move further down the rabbit hole. but - in INT mode the 33.3 speed of the virtual label is absolutely meaningless. 33.3 makes reference to the turntable which is not even there, why should it rotate at 33.3? Familiarity maybe? Suggestion: How about when in INT the label spins in concert with the BPM? That way for example one rotation could equal four bars, one bar would be 1/4 rotation (or whatever resonant speed works to look at). That would give lots of musical feedback in the turn of the label. NOW why not even do that in REL mode as well? If the sticker does not really represent anything about the LOCATION of the Real Vinyl why need it represent the SPEED of the Real Vinyl? Might as well make it even more useful - right?

The point here is that the label is represented in two terms or gives feedback about two elements - speed and location. If the location does not matter then why should the speed? If the speed is important then so is the location (imo)







yes, but it also complicates things :)









If it were up to me, I would make an option for the virtual sticker to be locked to the real vinyl sticker. No messing around with the cues. If people like it the way I will then deal with the cues later.

+1

after writing about this for a week and then going back to the gig environment, I firmly feel that the virtual sticker should always represent the vinyl sticker.

glad Dub sees this.




no to convince everyone else

unfortunately, now it's really going to bug me.

I know

now you must join the battle




Further on this point, using a little statistical analysis - If it is important to see a cue ahead of time as the virtual sticker sweeps toward it, the way it is now (12 o'clock) is MUCH more likely to give less feedback. The proximity of cues causing it to jump around eliminates using it that way. The other way (Locked Sticker) will always let you see the virtual sticker sweep up on cues very near to each other.

You could see it hit the kick - boom,
then hit the hi hat - ting,
then hit the snare - krack,
all in the sweep of the sticker.

that would be sick!

+! to that

Ha.. I know DJ's who play 120BPM all night long ;)


Good point.



I thought the cue points on the outer edge would only appear if you are close to them, right?

What about the outer edge (which gets filled now, the more you move towards the end)? Wouldnt it be confusing if the filling outer edge would reach a cue point?



The way you put it, it makes sense.



Well IMHO now you are contradicting yourself. One of your main arguments was the physical remembrance of the physical vinyl position to the virtual display on screen. If you move the vinyls by one whole revolution, wouldn't you expect the virtual stuff on screen exactly moving one rotation as well?

BTW, this would throw me off - and remember, I like the current concept which is used in SL.



lol :)

wow, this thread really screwed me up

I actually see no good reason for the sticker to jump, that does not make sense to me at all anymore. Nothing in the universe works like that. In fact I find it very distracting now. It looks like a glitch on the screen.

the doors of perception have been opened

The daughter asked the mother "Why do we cut the ends off the roast before putting it the pot?"

The mother explained "Thats the way your grandma taught me to do it"

The daughter asked the grandma "Why do we cut the ends off the roast before putting it in the pot?"

The grandma explained "Because all we had was that tiny little pot back then, I dont know why your mom keeps doing it that way"






yeah - if I remember, I hadnt made that point back when....

If you look to the virtual label to see how near a cue is the way I am suggesting might have some advantage.



I think thats why I changed the 'time fill' to a single stroke in the rendering.

And it might work that the cue marks around the edge would 'fade' in instead of just appearing - jumping in. Maybe even in steps per rotation - light, medium, and then dark in the rotation that the cue actually exists.



just have to convince more people




yes, I am making the argument in the other direction here. I am taking the merits of the way it is now and extrapolating to see what further use there is.

So yes for you and I who use vinyl the Speed 33.3 has some importance even if the Location does not (well not in relation to the real vinyl). And in INT there is no real vinyl thus the Speed 33.3 is arbitrary or at best hereditary - it makes reference to something that no longer exists. Could the Speed be put to some use? I think so.

Not that I would use it.

I am just making the point, the way it is now represents a 'partial disconnect' from the real vinyl (speed yes, location no), maybe there would also be something to gain from a 'full disconnect' (speed no, location no) ? And if there is a line or continuam from a 'full disconnect' to a 'partial disconnect' it points back to the foundation - a 'full connection' (speed yes, location yes) which is what I am advocating.

(probably just babbling here for most, but it makes sense to me)

Here is an animation showing what it could look like if instead of the virtual sticker filling in as it nears a cue a 'cue mark' fades in around the edge.
djkoolakiem.com

I like it.

Approved..

I like it.

I like the idea that you have that the virtual sticker, should always match the vinyl sticker, never makes since not having it like that...

Much better.... Rane! care to comment?

Don't like it. Too color sensitive. Laptop screens are not that great, plus in the environment where we play it's not so easy to "decipher" colors.

First - I am advocating that we get an option that might not even include the cue marks around the edge. Maybe it would be easier to implement. So 'cue location' is sort of just a bonus. (and better then nothing at all wich is where I am at now)

Yes - there may be 'draw backs' but again the focus of this feature is that the sticker would stay true - that would be the priority.

And - I am not sure I understand what the difficulty is in "deciphering" the color. Do you mean color vs. color in terms of distinguishing cues from each other? Or do you mean red vs white in terms of the red mark on the white background?

Also - this is more about the operation then the 'look'. If doesnt 'look' right, I could think of 100 remedies for that.

I think the way how you fade the colors is what makes it hard to read. Just like the list of currently available colors in the color-pickup-box is bad. They're all pastell-colors. Not so easy to distinguish.

Is it that the fading does not tell you enough information about how many cycles away it is or its location to begin with?

Actually it's just the color. But then ... for me personally it could be black and white. I dont have too many cues near to each other.

it could have a black stroke around it - for example

What about the sticker changing color like it did before except it would climax at the true location of the marker.

I want the cues to show up around the outside of the clock at all times in some way. Even if the cue is 30 rotations away, I would have exact knowledge of where it will hit when it does.

Maybe cue marks could show up as an empty square no mater how far away in the song and fade in.


One problem with the sticker filling in, you would get one color covering another color. I dont think there would be a problem if the 'nearing' color was the top most. It might look a little "colorful" but to me it is still better then the sticker jumping around.

empty square is exactly what I was thinking for the cue points

the sticker changing color sounds awesome to me, as long as it didn't jump

at least we broke 100 on this thread

Good to know I'm not out of my mind.

Another thing I thought about and I don't know if it's possible is a sticker position alignment feature.

Say you sticker your records incorrectly and reference point isn't where it is. You could de-couple the virtual marker and align it with the sticker on the vinyl and save the new position.

If you need to go back to the original position you just click a reset button.

that's a good way to deal with the vinyl offset adjustments as well. I like it

yes - its hard to tell the rest of the world that they are doing everything backwards or upside down.

I find it ironic that SSL works this way while Traktor works the other (right) way. I wonder if Traktor users request that Traktor work the way SSL does.

probably only in a different universe.

Ive heard theoretical physicist postulate an alternate universe where the Earth periodically skips days ahead in its rotation. Everyone on the planet falls down and looses track of what they are doing.

that would suck! espcially while DJ-ing

hahaa


So if the planet worked like the SSL clock sticker - would we experience lost time like its 4PM - blam - its 12 o'clock - and everyone experiences missing 8 hours.?

Or would we not experience any missing time, its 4PM the Sun is shining then - blam - its midnight but all of our clocks are wrong by 8 hours.

Since the jump is instantaneous I guess we wouldnt feel any inertia (otherwise we would all fly off the planet, not just fall down)

I wonder if Traktor users request that Traktor work the way SSL does.

I did for a lot of things actually.

From watching the promo videos for T2, it seems to me the virtual clock don't reset to 12 when hitting cues?

Thats what it looks like to me. So did T2 always work that way, or did it used to work the way SSL does now, or is it an option?

Ether way it must be odd for DJs switching from Traktor to SSL.

According to Quartz, TS had always worked that way

well Traktor always had it 'right' it should be the SSL default - the way it is now should be the strange added bonus option

Agree.

i79.photobucket.com

rane CDJ? haha

nah - the plater rotates

....or at least just an option to make the virtual sticker ALWAYS lock to the vinyl

Yes please!!!!!

This can really improved. See AKIEMs avatar.



RELEVANT MODE

bbuuuummmmmpppppp


-cues on virtual deck are relevant to the sticker
-flash as they approach

smart!

just had a brief look, this would be epic!!! For the real turntablist who actually uses the marks on their records this would be hella usefull!!!

Agreed!!

Yes, pretty please, with sugar on top...

yah whut he said n stuff

after reading this from top to bottom....gotta agree, when hitting the cue (either on the kb, dicer or 1000) having the virtual deck keep it position and NOT jumping to 12'oclock would be very advantageous.
Sometimes i do hate reading things, this is now gonna bug me to no end.....

yay

thanks for taking the time to read this and adding your support

feel free to pull use the Avatar that AKIEM made to show your support

done, and will spread the word to the rest of the community here in town, and tell them to get on here and preach!

hell yeah, are you using the sticker sync easter egg?

i will when i set up this aft to put in a bit of practice before an open deck this tues

the egg completes the "drop to cue" experience.

needle dropping before SSL was a very precise move. drop to cue without the egg is kind of sloppy, like just a random reason to pick up the needle (great if you don't have a midi controller though)

now with the egg. both of my hands are working together to perform my intended function. It just "feels" better

and having the cue always show up in the same spot on the record makes things very precise like it should be if you are needle dropping

I'm down with this!

It just makes sense!

Now to work out those easter eggs...

New avatar

excelent

i think the drop to cue egg, doesn't work in 2.3 beta :( the crate is the same "N" option but no dice in 2.3... 2.2 works fine.

Biddy bump

Bump

wonder if this will go the same way as the much wanted Empath sl3

+1

why don't they stop the cue point label reverting back to 12 o'clock when you set a cue point, and just keep it at the place that it would be eg. at 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock. That your label on the control vinyl would always be the same as the visual aid on scratch live.

thats the idea

I'd love for the mods to chime in & tell us about this feature, one thats actually usefull for a change. rather than auto stink. Mods where u @

shumzs got it right with the marker following it... and they could have an option in the setup for "12" or "2" o'clock setup.

This...

bump

BUMP! Any news on this mods?

I really hope this gets implemented especially with sticker sync

sticker sync is invaluable! Must be implemented!

x2472389573298272987523

I so want this!!!!! Jumping marker is the devil!!!

Bump, bump bump...


Watchwww.youtube.com

still on the agenda

I really think dialing in this feature along with sticker sync might bring some of those "turntablists" back over from the Traktor side of things.

Make it happen, please.

I AGREE!!! got kilmore from incubus stuck on this feature...

Watchwww.youtube.com

we need this in 2.4

This would be pretty dope. I like it. +1 from me.

this is the future for vinyl control!!!

6 and 1/2 years.......

amen!

We need some form of conformation about this. asap

Interesting

Tumble weeds......

The next town over got the rail road.

One day... One day....

I doubt it at this point

Coming up to seven years, (think its like 8 years including) various threads, pms, emails with various mods, "yeah that should be easy"

Maybe you are right.

sad...SSL hasn't added any groundbreaking features since 2.0

this (along with sticker sync) would flip the script on the whole turntablist/DVS movement, firmly placing Serato as the top choice for DJs who WILL ALWAYS USE VINYL!!!

The thing that gets me is this seems so simple a feature request, and should have been the default behavior.

I hate the way it is now. I find it distracting.

The sticker on the screen should match the sticker on the record. That is all, period. I will NEVER measure the radius of a colored bar to know how many times and irrelevant mark on a record must rotate before a cue point is at a place that will almost never match where it is on the screen.


SERATO TEAM!!!! it's a mess. lets clean it up

One more time, just in case they decide to start paying attention!

+1 again

amen times a million!

Keep the faith!!!!

What if u have 2 cue points lets say 1,2,3, cue 1 cue, 3,4 and youre at 33rpm +2% wouldnt the timing be off at 0% or -1% wouldnt you have to have a digital screen on physical vynil to mathc the requested feature? Also wouldnt you have to reset vi yl to original 12 oclock position each time a song is loaded..??? I find this request impossible with the amount of variations of cues and song speeds vs physical cue labels

Sorry for typos ipad shit

Huh?

Is the actual vinyl impossible?

Whatever's on the vinyl is on the screen.

I mean say you have clock cues at 1 oclock 4 and 9 and on your sing file you have 3 cues 4 beats apart. And the next song they are 2 minutesnapart, how do you get them to all match up?

You would not have cue at any o'clock.

On an actual piece of vinyl with a sticker on it, the way you read cues is where the cue falls. So you might have a beat that starts at 3oclock, or a beat starts at power button, or it starts at the 45 adapter holder, or anyplace around the turntable.

On a real piece of vinyl you don't read everything at 12.

Remember, putting stickers on wax started back way before DVS. And back then if you knew what you were doing you learned that a "cue" could fall at any angle, 12 was not special.

And if we can get them to do it for SSL cues would fall anyplace around the dial. Look at my avatar. That's what it would look like if a cue happened to fall at 1oclock. It can fall anyplace.

The advantage of this way is the sticker would not jump around and instead always be locked to the sticker on the actual vinyl. So when you look at the virtual sticker on the screen, you will know the location of the wax. And when you look at the wax, you will know the location of the virtual sticker.

This is the way I think it should have been done from the begining

Oh so now cues are at 12 and you want real location?

Usually lets say i want a cue at my stylus i line up to my sticker cue on vinyl then hit cue and its lined up...correct? You want if cue falls on lets say 1 on virtual deck to fall on one on vinyl?

Yes.

But if that is too much trouble. I would be happy with no cues shown on screen as long as the virtual sticker always corosponds to the vinyl rotation.

The way it is now is based on staring at the screen and not having a sticker on the actual vinyl.

You can start at 12, but if you hit a cue or a loop, alignment is lost.

I understand the principle but not how it would work in real life...any mockup videos of this ?

It can be done...it is that way in Traktor

All you have to do is imagine whatever the vinyl is doing is exactly what virtual vinyl is doing.

This means the sticker does not jump around and cue points appear around the edge at any degree. Again look at me avatar, the red cue is at 1, it could be any place.

Berto, there is a true "12 o clock" on every vinyl. If you play a track with no cue points set in absolute mode and match the sticker on the vinyl to the bar on the screen. That bar will follow the sticker no matter what the speed.

yup

Right on.

Side note to Akiem: can you link me to the thread where you guys are talking about putting the sl box inside a 56 or other mixers. Thanks


Clock Sticker Cue Crew

side note: serato.com
and for the record Jeff took a picture of my modified 56SSL and talked about putting it a 909 back then

btw just finished an ill TTM57 mod....


CSCC!!!

:back to the program:


<-------- take just a moment to look at the avatar

...but dont just look at, understand it

...become one with it....

....thats it, there you go....

2 o'clock position, just how i like it.

thats what she said

thank god it's a she! nh nm

Like B2K said.....bump, bump, bump

this would be so dope. so simple too

Still holding my breath. I've turned a shade of blue that does not exist in nature...

l

lol - Im at the color 'clear'

Akiem? AKIEM? Anybody seen Akiem?? I can't see that clear bastard anywhere!!!!!

I wouldn't hold my breath as it seems serato dj is getting all of the attention. One day we can pray that we will get some library advancements and clock sticker cues....

Right now serato needs to worry about not having your Mac kernel panic when plugging it in to a 61... Lol

!

xmas pressie from serato?? this would be so usefull

are there any other holidays coming up?

Easter???? LOL

That would be cool. Sticker sync is still the best feature ever. K

make a wish

I wish the sticker on the GUI deck made sense like a real sticker on a record.

yup!!!

double yup

Truth

double yup!!!!!!

+1,000,000

I strongly feel that this needs to be implemented in Serato DJ as well. When using the DDJ-SX the cue point marker is jumping all around. On the screen that may make sense because of the cue point warning system but on the jog wheel itself it makes it impossible to scratch a sentence with multiple cue points close together.

Please Serato!!!

Clock sticker cues. You are fighting a long standing traditional DJ technique.

yup!

+1

.....and auto abs/rel mode switching, switch to abs mode on lead-in, switch to abs mode on deck load options as well.

+1

YESSSSS

+1

Eight years later....

:(

Need more requests to raise the priority if they are going to implement.

Well this thread does have high numbers....

...can't beat the sync request I guess.

Don't give up...

I feel old.

This would be a killer feature..

Just in case there was someone here that doesn't know about this (I just found out)

serato.com

Good looks!

Still patiently waiting. Shouldnt be long now judging by the length of time it took to add flac!

9 years.

Serato DJ 3.0... :p

Someone said it's around the corner. One could only pray! <3 :)

With the focus seemingly shifting away from turntables with ssl being dropped, im not holding my breath.

Im not either, Ive been tempted to change my avatar lately.

I always thought SDJ would have all the features of SSL at the outset and long times requests could start to be parceled out.

I have a feeling there will be some futuristic third software from Serato and the same thing will happen again ten years from now.


What kills me is how simple and simplifying this request is.

My bet is its one of the easiest to implement feature requests, and I thought it made enough noise - aight whatevz

In all fairness i have no idea what it would take to implement. I do know that getting people to spend £400 plus on a collaboration with ableton only to have it removed from the new sdj feels ultra shitty.

Im in the same boat on that one:(


but they also went well further with the clock easter egg thing - it was just overkill and lacked the very simple function actually wanted. It was like they understood something like this was wanted but added a kitchen sync as well

Lol at kitchen sync. I can honestly say i dont know a single dj that wanted it personally.
Im still using ssl and at the moment see no real reason to change. Pitch and time looks pretty cool. I think they held off adding that to sweeten the switchover if im honest.

probably.

I personally dont use keylock so its whatever to me - my 'records' didnt sound right when I tried it.

Not tried pnt but its gotta be better than the standard key-lock. We all know thats ultra shitty.

yeah.

I remember the days I mostly posted in this area because it seemed worthwhile.
now, not so much

Do you remember any of your requests / suggestions being added?

Yes I do actually.

Center Scroll - was the first thing I suggested.

Loop Roll - I assume someone else invented that - but I thought it up in here.

Drop To Cue - if it wasnt for the 57 I would be using this.

Set Cue when empty - pretty obvious

I did a lot of talking about a grid system - but I dont think it shows up here.

TM57SL - but I assume that was in the works.


I have no idea what was already in the works, so I dont know what from this list was actually from my suggestions. I think theres more, but its "hidden"


seems like there is much less listening to suggestions nowadays - I cant help but wonder if there is a correlation between that and how often I hear people say "this sucks" :)

i got confused with sticker sync needle drop… my bad, at least that should be coming….

But i'm with you…. i'm not holding my breath for the current moments :(

Amen

I'm still holding my breathe

You must have a purple face by now! LOL

Well here's the thing though...

Why put all that time and effort into merging dvs support into SDJ if they don't plan on honoring the control vinyl feature set.

They might surprise us all.

this…. this is why i like you dub! ;)

good point.

(keep hope alive....)

i was on that new SZ, looking at how dope the new center display is and then noticing how silly it looks when a marker showing rotation jumps from one spot to another. Cues could be shown within the circumference just like this concept and it would be AMAZEBLLZ

it's a case of BAD DESIGN being copied to new technology.

in other words.... we have moved in the wrong direction but I am still not giving up hope. This idea will make SeratoDJ a better product.

You would think... Now that everyone has become a screen staring zombie. That this would have happened sooner. Especially when the "circle" marker or whatever logo is seratos pride and joy.

don't hold out much hope, I think it was about 4 odd years ago i asked for them to add an option for a third dicer. nope, but we do get auto sync & a janky version of pitch & time.

those were 8 year old requests so sometime in the next 4 years...

the reason the circle works so well is because it is predictable.

the virtual marker jumping around is just soooo wrong. When I see it happening it looks like a glitch to me. Everything looks so cool on the screen except for that.

If you could solve this problem, you would stop the endless argument between old school vinyl DJ's and new school digital DJ's!

The answer is it's one way or the other. Use your serato vinyl ins ABS mode if you want your cue points to be where YOU want them, and mark your records. If you want to be able to jump from cue point to cue point, then you have to sacrifice somewhere.

The software won't control your hardware, your hardware controls the software.

huh? what argument is that?





incorrect. The trade off is the sticker will not hit a cue at 12. Many DJs simply do not care about 12 o'clock.

secondly, cues could be placed around the label circle, like my avatar (kinda like vinyl)

nothing need be lost - the suggestion is an optional switch



obviously

the gui sticker should reflect the vinyl and not jump around dissociated with the vinyl.

things that spin in circles don't do that

looks like a glitch in time

lol

Neil Degrasse Tyson explains how the universe works

Watchwww.youtube.com

This is what I've been used to for years.

Hell, I used neither 12'o clock or the cart, I always have used 6'o clock. There was something about right angles that I associated with DJ'ing. This of course became an issue when DJ'ing with my OWN records on someone who was set up in Battle Mode....because I then had to think 3'oclock....never a fan of lining up with the cart.

The cart is the closest thing to the sticker - more accurate. Secondly, if you want to use one sticker only you have to be able to use any clock position....

6 tho.

The truth is that all you really need is a good memory.

Pointing the sticker at the cart is no more "accurate" than referencing a 12, 6, or 2 o'clock position.

Personal preference.

I also never put stickers on the actual grooves of the record.

(argument time)

Using the cart certainly is 'more accurate'.

Im certainly not about to draw up the mathematical proof right here. But the closer two objects are together the more accurate the relationship between them can be measured with the same resolution.

Personal Preference, sure.

Stickers on the groove is the 'most accurate' - I never did that too much neither.



You DJ so bad, you put stickers on the cv grooves.
nm

I ain't gonna argue the two object point. That's spot on

You're right...this subject HARDLY deserves an "argument"...

I idea that you think that you'll be "More Accurate" because you have a sticker pointing to a cart vs pointing to a predetermined clock position sinks....

Why?

Because you said even said it yourself -

LMAO @ thinking that your cutting DJ "preciseness" changes if you don't have the sticker pointing directly at the cart.....

LMAO @ you "embellishing" what was said, because I said nothing of the sort, and neither did you. No place until the above post did you mention "cutting DJ precision".

Again. We are talking about aligning two objects, the rotating vinyl sticker and the turntable (or anything 'stationary') The closer the two objects are, the more accurate a measurement will be provided the same resolution (how close your eyes are) In this case the sticker on the label, and the cart which is closer to the sticker than any fixed point on the turntable (besides the spindle)

Now, if how 'accurately you cut' is in any way determined by your ability to accurately line the sticker up with the turntable by sight then it will have an effect. If you dont need/use the visual data to 'cut accurately' then it will have no effect.




yup

Oh, and let me address "any clock position". OBVIOUSLY in that situation we arnt talking about using the cart in the first place. So this condition of more accurate ONLY works when lining to the cart is available - for example you only need to mark one position on a real record, or when the position you are marking is 'variable', REL mode.

Therefore what I am saying holds true, especially for REL mode where you can choose to use the cart anytime you adjust the position by hitting a cue point.

When using positions other than the cart the question is mute - so OBVIOUSLY Im only talking about situations where the cart is an option. If its not even an option it OBVIOUSLY cant be more accurate, it cant be anything.

Dude, for a pretty smart dude, you have no common sense. The ONLY thing that's was up for discussion is the preference of where to place the sticker on the label in reference to the cue point / beginning of sound that you want to mark.

Not "aligning two objects". In your case the cart and marker.

I don't even worry about the position of the cart, Einstein.

I worry about the position of the mark...Duh.

I'm saying 6 o'clock, you're saying point to the cart.

LMAO @ the cue being "More Accurate" if it points to the cart...

As if the CART doesn't move, (forever increasing that "space" between the marker and cart) or worse yet, someone not being able to just use the label (and not a reference point on the turntable), to determine if something is 6, or 3, or whatever o'clock....you want the record position to be at.

You mean like 6'oclock?

Ummm. that was my position the WHOLE TIME....

That damn Bezzle wore you out over time...

I see....

And using the cart is more accurate because it is closer. This holds true placing a sticker on real vinyl or rotating the vinyl and hitting a cue in REL.




The two objects are the vinyl and the turntable. The two points being aligned are the sticker and the chosen reference in my case the cart, in your case 6. The cart is more accurate because it is in all cases closer to the label.




For this instance the cart is stationary in relation to the rotation of the record. But the closer the cart gets to the label as the record spins the more accurate the measure becomes. The 'most' accurate is when the cart is nearest the lead out.

I happen to extend my sticker out from the label into the vinyl scroll area. This way the sticker is almost touching the label towards the end of the record. This is the most accurate. The closer the cart moves to the label toward the end of the record, the more accurate the measurement.




Incorrect. I use any or all clock positions or degrees as a marker especially when I'm dealing with different parts of a song, kick and snare for example. Or if there are two songs on a vinyl, usually they both don't start at the same degree. Instead of two stickers, I just note the degree.

But when there is the option (REL mode) I usually align to the cart because it is more accurate. This is a fact.




Fact, the measurement is.



LMAO - do your turntables rotate counter clockwise? LMAO The 'space' between the cart and the label DECREASES as the record spins, not "increases" - all your facts a wrong.

Yes, anyone can use any location they choose as a mark as I do - fact remains, the cart is closer and more accurate. Fact.

lame as usual, snipping a sentence.

First I was speaking of real vinyl and having one sticker which would mean no option to always use the cart. You then point out that I said you need to be able to use any position, and this is true. So OBVIOUSLY I'm only talking about when using the cart is a possibility, when it's not, it's not and there is not reason to COMPARE using the cart to any other location - it's not an option.

Again when there is the CHOICE to use the cart or any other location, using the cart is more accurate. And it is more accurate the closer it gets to the label. This is a fact.


...and you still on that guys dick.
Speaking of, let me make an 'analogy'.


Suppose you have a piece of wood. There is a mark on the wood (not you, a pencil line) And you want to measure the distance the mark is from the end of the piece of wood. So you have a ruler and you make your measurement from a distance of about four inches. Sure you can get a good idea of where the pencil mark is. BUT if you move the wood closer to the ruler your measurement will increase in accuracy until you will be as accurate as possible with the wood touching the ruler.

Replace 'ruler' with degree of vinyl rotation. Replace 'wood' with cart. Four inches away is the distance from the label/sticker to edge. The cart is always less than four inches away and near zero at the end of the record - more accurate - fact.

Another example. Again suppose you have a mark on wood (see above). You point a red laser at the mark. If you are very close, right up on the mark you will be very accurate as accurate as possible if you touch the laser to the mark (same as cart toward the end of the record) Now if you move the wood away from the laser your ability to hit the mark will decrease (less accurate) The farther you move the wood away the less accurate you become. FACT

Again the closer two objects are (sticker, cart) the more accurate the relationship between them can be measured. This is a mathematical, geometric fact.

You are INSANE.

First off, your "6'o'clock" apparently is some arbitrary location on the physical turntable that you're saying exists.

I'm not looking at the rectangle edging of the turntable, maybe YOU are but I know when my marker is exactly straight up and down. I don't have to look any farther than the position of the marker on the label to make that determination.

I think I know where your confusion lies, but then again it STILL makes no sense.

I was going to say, MAYBE you're using a dot or something as a marker on the able, and since it's circular, you can't align it correct in your vision or something, and you need a cart as a reference point.....

But your VID clearly shows a piece of straight tape that you are "aligning" to the cart.

I'm aligning that straight tape to vertical line....

and again LMAO @ you trying to turn this into a "measuring" contest, has nothing to do with "Distance" from the tape to the cart or to a "physical location" that you arbitrarily created called 6'o clock along the turntable edge.

6'oclock is a degree reference, not a physical location dude....

LMAO! Nobody is talking about that except YOU - again

I'm using a small marker sticker at the lead in of the control record,
and line this up to the cart in battle position.

Definitively helped me become more accurate...
Would be real cool to line up the virtual stickers to match.

Let me just stop you here to show one by one the aspects you dont grasp.
(I will get to the rest in due course)

lh6.googleusercontent.com

The above photo shows the sticker straight up and down correct?

You call this 6 o'clock?

This is where you mark the start of songs or whatever correct?

Y / N ?





(my prediction is you will answer with mad verbiage to obscure the simplicity of the y/n question)

AFRIKAANS ja
ALBANIAN po
ALSATIAN ja
ARABIC نعم (naam)
ARMENIAN ayo
AZERI beli
BAMBARA awo
BASQUE bai
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EBONICS fa sho'
ENGLISH yes
ESPERANTO jes
ESTONIAN jah
EWE é
FAROESE ja
FIJIAN io
FINNISH kyllä
FRENCH oui
FRISIAN ja
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GERMAN ja
GREEK ne
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HAWAIIAN 'ae
HEBREW ken
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HUNGARIAN igen
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IRISH GAELIC [ repetition of the verb ]
ITALIAN sì
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KABYLIAN eh
KHMER cha (female) / baht (male)
KINYARWANDA yego
KOREAN ney (old form) / yea (current form)
KURDISH ere / bele
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men leo (that's it) / dai (it's possible)
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RUSSIAN Да (da)
SARDINIAN eja / giai / si
SANSKRIT आम्। (ām)
SCOTTISH GAELIC aye / [ repetition of the verb ]
SERBIAN da
SHIMAORE éwa
SHONA ehe
SINDHI ha
SINHALA ovu
SLOVAK ano
SLOVENIAN da
SOBOTA da
SONINKÉ yo
SPANISH sí
SWAHILI ndiyo
SWEDISH ja
TAGALOG opo / oo
TAHITIAN e
TAMAZIGHT wah
TAMIL ஒம் (om) ou ஆம் (aam)
TATAR aye
TELUGU avunu
THAI ใช่ (chaï) / ค่ะ (kha) - woman speaking / ครับ (khrap) - man speaking
TURKISH evet
UDMURT ben / o-o / y-y (colloquial)
UKRAINIAN Так (tak)
URDU han-ji
WALOON ("betchfessîs" spelling) oyi
WELSH ydw
[ repetition of the verb ]
WEST INDIAN CREOLE wè
WOLOF waaw
YIDDISH yoh
YORUBA beeni
ZULU yebo

Glad for å se at du tar deg tid til å lære morsmålet mitt Johnny !

NGT (No Google Translate)

Du er veldig velkommen sir.

Still gotta work on your sentence structure though ;-)
From that list, I'd say you should still have a good international career ahead, never to late ;-D

so this is quite interesting.

you say.



Ultimately yes, the clock is arbitrary, there is no actual clock markings. Moving switching between battle position and disco has you switching (lol) between 3 and 6 o'clocks as a reference. I actually prefere to used a system of degrees in my thinking, but whatever. This is besides the main point of the moment. Lets continue.



Quite incorrect as this demonstration will show.

So for this photo lh6.googleusercontent.com
What you are doing is using the crop/edges of the photo to create an orientation because you cant see the turntable. "Down" is 6 o'clock for you. The sticker (line) bisects the bottom edge of the photo at a right angle, or 180º.

The position of the sticker is not relative to "you", because you are not stationary. You are choosing a side of the turntable (in this case the photo) and having that represent "your location" the 6 o'clock edge.


The problem is this sticker is ACTUALLY pointing to about 2o'clock / 60º in battle position, and 5o'clock / 150º in disco position.

lh3.googleusercontent.com

Again, YOU are choosing which location/edge of the deck is what degree or time on the clock. Most people use the top edge of the deck and call it 12o'clock or 0º. YOU have a different orientation (lol) and use 6 as your point of reference. YOU are the one who is changing the rotation of the clock to fit battle mode or disco mode comfortability 6 or 3.

Therefore you ARE looking at the edge of the turntable (or whatever fixed object) as a point of reference to measure what degree the sticker is at. And YES, you have to look further than the label/sticker to know where it is in relation to anything else.




INCORRECT.

This reminds me of how so many people believe the magnetic north of the planet earth to be near the north pole.

LMAO.

See, the sad thing about this whole issue is that you DO understand what I'm saying, but just want to argue.

Lemmie shut you down real quick.

First off, WHO is setting up their Turntables at angles other than battle or disco?

Only you I guess...

But separate from that....You claim pointing to the CART is more accurate, than say a 6 or 12 o'clock position, assuming thats' where you want your cue point to be.

If you look at his picture, www.djjohnnym.com you'll see that the phsical marker goes to the edge of the label.

At the point of which it reaches 6'o'clock, and I've been telling time for years, hey that's where my "Good" is....period point blank.

And sure, if I turn the table to battle postion, it's at 3'o clock.

The REFERENCE POINT of where I determine the 6'oclock position is right where the green circle is. 180 degrees.Right there at the edge of the label.

YOU on the other hand, are using the CART as your REFERENCE POINT, which is additional inches away from your physical marker in the FIRST place, as shown here -> www.djjohnnym.com

ON TOP of that, you have to draw an "Imaginary Line" from the end of your tape to the Headshell to be true.

We both agree that the ultimate cue point is an actual piece of tape right on the groove (when using traditional vinyl) at the exact cue point, but neither of us likes that anyway, so that is mute.

I don't have to be "stationary" LMAO, but I DO have to know what 180 degrees or 6'o'clock looks like....lmao.

Your way is NO more accurate than mine, and actually, it's WORSE because you need a straigh line of sight to YOUR CART to truly be accurate...

I just need to make sure I have my turntables sitting at right angles.....lmao.

I swear, kids these days....

You better watch some more of that dude in your Avatar man...

LMAO @ trying to play games and whatnot.



And you wanted me to "Agree" with your "6'oclock" statement above....

But as you can see, I responded to this instead...even before you started gaming....



CTFU at cats trying to play pictionary and whatnot....

the cart is still the easiest and most accurate… but hey i guess i never double up on the snare at the 6 when juggling beats where the kick starts at the 2 (cart). :)

we havnt even got to the argument yet [the cart is more accurate]




not at all, just proving the point you CANT determine the degree without an orientation (the deck)

point proven, obviously most DJ use battle position, secondarily disco

then again we have www.okayplayer.com

so




ok

I extend mine into the scroll for more accuracy.... yeah

question: how do you know the red horizontal line is angled correct?
it looks arbitrary, what it in relation to? how do you know its square?


referencing the table (check)



LMAO

how do you know Im not just doing this?
lh4.googleusercontent.com

LMAO



yet you draw an imaginary line (supposedly) not referencing the edge of the deck just arbitrarily on the vinyl.

LMAO




Its not actually moot. Its a supporting argument. Yes a point right on the vinyl next to the cart is the ultimate.

This is why I extend my sticker past the label into the scroll area. In order to be CLOSER to the cart and more accurate.

Glad you bring this up because then THIS is the ultimate (well really close)

plus.google.com









180º in reference to what? You do realize 180º is a measurement from 0º ?




You mean you close one eye and make sure its in exactly the same position every time you look? LMAO

dude, a Right Angle requires TWO lines of reference. One is the sticker, the other is what? You? LMAO.

The other line of reference is a side of the deck.


lh4.googleusercontent.com

You dont know if your vertical line is correct WITHOUT comparing it something (the edge of the deck)





so you could not DJ on this set?


Me and the dude in my avatar is on point. LMAO at you pretending to use the dude in your avatars tactics. This is math dude, not opinion.

yup

It's not a game, you said you knew the rotation of the label without the deck as reference. The photo showed EXACTLY that. And you were wrong about its location.

The only one playing games is you with your answer

That may be the case FOR YOU, it is totally subjective.

I'd have to agree with Akiem on this one. Having a short distance visual reference distance (the cart) is more accurate/easier than a longer visual reference distance (side of turntable). However, the distance ain't THAT long either way, and I think we all can agree that both methods work well after practice. At the end its kinda pointless to argue over, no?

As a comparison, I've got a DJ buddy who will always argue that a single V7 is far better than any other serato controller on the market. He runs it exclusively with the platter turned of, only using ptich, bend, cue, play, cue-points, lib scroll & track load. I kinda run into a discussion with him every now and then, as he never played much on other controllers, and has a lot more time on the V7 than a HID CDJ.

Then I remind myself that the discussion is kinda pointless, In the end, do what works for you...

AGAIN, you wanna play like cats don't NORMALLY set their turntables up at right angles.

That's what your whole argument is based on...

Laughable.



Nobody is arguing that. Here you go with tangents.



And everybody and their grandmother thinks that setup is whack, but it is functional.



Key word "More". As we both agree that the ULTIMATE cue point is right next to the needle via a sticker or something.

If you're using the surface of the LABEL as your starting point, then me being at 6'oclock vs. you being a few degrees to the right pointing towards the cart equals the SAME THING, and yours HARDLY more accurate....



Because I know I set my 12's up at a right angles...to yes, the desk, table or whatever that I'm DJ'ing on. So, that INITIAL "squaring" is done, so all I have to do is make sure the mark is straight up and down.



Why would you NEED to? Your reference is the cart....no right angles needed....

smh...



And you arbitrarily make the assumption that the Turntable is not square on the table.



It's a supporting argument as far as sticking a cue point right next to the cart, BUT not if the Cue MARKER originates on the label.



So you always put your cart as CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to the lead out groove, so you can be more accurate huh?

Gee, all I have to do is know that the marker is VERTICAL and I'm good....



Yes, if you prefer to DJ in the lead out groove, sure....

Good luck with that whole 30 seconds you have....



You mean 6'oclock is a measurement from 12'oclock?

Well, I know how to line up straight lines, so....



Ok, so I get it, you can't determine when your cue marker is at straight up and down...

Gotcha.

Again, you can't determine when your cue marker is straight up and down, because you randomly set your turntables up cattycorner, huh?

Gotcha...



I AGREE, and my Marker pointing to 6'clock vs your marker pointing to the cart is THE SAME THING...unless of course, you're DJ'ing at Hot97, like you do....

Tell it to Mr. Arbitrary...

I told you both ;-) Takes at least 2 to keep an argument going ;-)
Aaanywaaay, clock sticker cues would be cool in SDJ....

I still think the cart is best… if you pick up your tone arm.. you are aligning your cart to the sticker… whether it's drop to cue in serato or drop to vinyl on a real record… it's the fastest reference (especially when using the tone arm drop example as you are looking at both to line em up), this will be the most accurate. 6 and 12 have more room for it to be off a tad whether you are needle dropping or backspinning.

Any clock position works, but we are talking about the most accurate off the bat…. i used to be a 12 guy and moved to the 2 position for these very reasons. I session with some of the best in the turntablism game and 75%+ will agree. Heck they are the ones that changed my view on this.

If you want to view how quick i use the needle drop to cue point feature in SSL, you can peep it here -> Watchwww.youtube.com

But anyways, have a good weekend everyone :)...

And ^^^THIS^^^ is why 6'oclock is better for me...

Why?

Because I don't need to even look past the circumference of the LABEL to know where the 6'clock reference is.

You always have to look at the marker, then the cart.

I just have to look at the marker.

Not at all. My whole argument is bassed of mathematics, geometry to be specific, spacial relationships and so forth.




wow, a tangent shits devastating!



I never said its "amazing dude". I think its a wack set up too. BUT it proves the point - turntables are quite useful even if they are not set up in right angles (battle/disco). When it comes to clocking its the turntable compared to the label sticker which gives you orientation. You can clock the sticker no matter what angle it sits (lmao I even have to point this out)



But obviously you could not spin there because the decks arnt right angle to the desk LMAO!






Incorrect. The degree to which the cart sits, about 60º is not what makes it more accurate. What makes it more accurate is that it is closer to the label/sticker in all cases. The accuracy increases as the record spins and the cart moves closer to the label. This accuracy can actually be measured, well the two can be mathematically compared.




So you are saying that horizontal red line is parallel to the table/desk whatever the deck is sitting on?




I did not say I NEED to. You were criticizing my method which is at leastest better than your poor logic.




Incorrect.

In my initial wording I accounted for this ""We are talking about aligning two objects, the rotating vinyl sticker and the turntable (or anything 'stationary')""

That would include the table or ANYTHING stationary. Like I said the clock is arbitrary and you can use ANYTHING as a measure.

WHY you would use something other than the turntable is beyond me though. I suppose you may be touching the table with your body as a reference since your myopic vision does not allow you to see the sticker AND the turntable in the same field of reference.



Wrong we are talking about degrees of accuracy as in 'MORE accurate'.

We both agree a sticker right next to the cart is the 'MOST' accurate, therefore the closer the sticker and the reference is the MORE accurate it is.

And now you claim to be using the table (LMAO) which is LESS accurate (visually anyway)




Not at all. I am capable of using any fixed point on the turntable as a reference. The cart is the first choice as it is closest and most accurate. Secondly, any right angle (to the deck) they are all equal to me. Last any of the 360º I am capable of using.

Again we are talking about "more" accurate, not just "usable"



....compared to the table. (LMAO)




All thats needed for instant doubles (shits more advanced nowadays fella)

Out of habit I would put the cart at the start of the vinyl even REL mode, now I tend to like it in the middle of the record.

The above is an illustration showing the CLOSER the cart is to the sticker, the MORE accurate it is until its the 'most' accurate almost touching. Once again as you agree a sticker right at the cart is "the ultimate".

(Pretty sure a sticker at the table/desk is pretty lame tho - LMAO)



Yes, and I guess you know where 12 is by how you have the deck set up on the table/desk (LMAO)




Apparently you dont, otherwise you would know you need at least TWO of them and would not be saying any type dumbshit

Um yeah, you have to look at your wobbly fold up table is positioned (LAMO)



Sure I can, and all the time.


Whats silly is YOU dont even get the fact that you are lining up the label sticker at a right angle with 'something' - apparently the rusty old fold up table missing the rubber on three legs with the duct tape locking the folding hing. Shits old as dirt, the wooden joint with the metal frame edge but the wood is broke up with splinters and shit







uh, no





Not saying I spun on those decks, but at least I know how they set em up, couple other places I seen too....

It certainly is not the same thing. There is the mater of difference in distance at hand, closer being more accurate - as you said yourself - right on it is the ultimate (the mfin table aint tho LMAO)












LMAO - I already proved without a doubt that is completely untrue.

Here is is again lh6.googleusercontent.com

If you dont need to look past the label then you could tell exactly what degree this sticker is at without seeing the rest of the photo. You cant! You have to have some sort of reference.

LMAO


Whats happening here is that you are just not thinking this through critically. Sure, the shit is second nature, and you arnt bothering to break it down critically, logically. You dont notice that you are measuring the angle of the label against the right angles of the deck because its very simple and takes less than a second for anyone with some kind of experience. But thats clouding your understanding of the situation.


You cant measure the angle of one fucking line by itself without referencing it to something else.

dude take a night course or some shit, obviously you quite before you made it to geometry

q.e.d.

pwned

Again with the tangents....as if the turntables can't be rotated to be at right angles...

Man, you're been boring for a while now, but now you're really starting to put me to sleep.



See? You're soooo boring that you're even falling asleep in your OWN quotes.

So you don't see that the ENTIRE PURPOSE of that whack azz looking setup is that you can ROTATE the ORIENTATION OF THE BASE which ever way you want? Including aligned to the desk, or mixer or whatever? LOL @ you putting up pics and not even looking at them in their entirety.



Like I said, if your specialty is you DJ'ing at beginning of the lead out groove, then do you mayne...



Oh and NOW you want to change your argument? Hold up, a minute ago you were preaching the whole "Align to the cart" proverb, now you wanna discuss distance? LMAO! Nobody was disputing distance from the cart Captain Obvious.
Dude knows he can't just stand on the previous argument, now you wanna act like the distance argument (which we both agree if a sticker was right next to the cart is the most accurate), is HIS WIN....lmaoo...

Please continue....



No wonder you ain't got no job. Let me break it down for you.

1. - You and I BOTH put our markers on the label.

2. I point my marker to 6'oclock. You point yours to the cart. There is no relevance to "DISTANCE" here, just ORIENTATION.

My marker points to a certain sound, as does YOURS.

But you claim that yours is MORE ACCURATE simply because it's pointing to the CART vs. MINE which is pointing to 6'0clock. Sh*t's dumb.

So basically, (since you want to bring up what THE MAJORITY of DJ's are doing), The MAJORITY of DJ's who use SERATO have, guess what? A MARKER that originates at 12o'clock! LMAO, RIGHT? Which is just the mirror inverse image of my 6'oclock.

So now you want to tell all those Serato DJ's, that Serato should have made it so that the marker magically points to the cart, right?

No, lemmie splain sumphin Lucy. They obviously needed a starting point, right? Or explain WHY their CUE POINTS always end up at 12'oclock? Oh, I get it, that's the whole Sticky Cue thing you're promoting, which is not a bad Idea for those who grasp it. Regardless, this has to do with ALIGNMENT, period. It's not like you've got a superimposed line reaching from the spindle to the end of the record, sure that would be MORE ACCURATE, but if I DID the same thing, and STILL wanted 6'oclock as my reference, it would still work.



And I said -



This is where you failed miserably.

So you're saying degrees of a circle is ARBITRARY? lmaooo....Only in AKIEM'S World...



lmao, so again, you basically don't look at how you place your turntables on the table, right?

Or that the base might magically reorient itself, but you're NOT worried, because all you have to look at is the marker and the cart....right? lmao.



I'm GLAD you said that. Because YOU pointing to the cart is NO more accurate than me pointing to 6'oclock. You're using the cart, I'm using 6'oclock. This is dumb.

Again, not talking about DISTANCE, but "Alignment"....lmao @ switching up and thinking cats ain't gonna notice.

LMAO @ the your new "DISTANCE" argument, "Alignment" remember? "Alignment"...lmao.



Hmmm, and I (using 6'oclock), or most Serato DJ's (using 12'oclock, or whatever) can't?
You should get into DJ Stand Up comedy.




Fixed

Again you NOW wanting to add DISTANCE to the equation.

And that's my point. You're basically telling me that you can't determine if the marker is completely vertical unless you look at the marker, and right angles of the turntable, yet you're standing in front of the turntable....Gotcha...lol.



And here comes the Plea Bargain. As far as BOTH of us putting the marker on the LABEL, the accuracy level is THE SAME. Period.



Sure, DJ'ing a whole night with a 30 second window. Yep, sounds good, oh wait, I forgot about that new technology called looping....smh.



Which again proves my point, you're not REALISTICALLY DJ'ing at the lead out groove...



Again, this wasn't about DISTANCE, it' was about ALIGNMENT....



No, what's happening here is that you simply like to argue. You knew the whole ALIGNMENT thing was purely a preference thing, which it IS.

We both already agreed that putting a sticker RIGHT NEXT to the cart on the vinyl is the ultimate CUE, but we BOTH hate that...

So lemmie break it down nice and simple like...

www.djjohnnym.com

This shows exactly what I'm talking about...

One is no better than the other....

It's no simpler than that...

Awww, a cheerleader!

Sup NikJr?

You still fighting CyberCrime?

The next thing you're probably argue about is that "Battle" mode is "Better" for DJ'ing....

Q. E. D.

You fooled yourself. Great job :)

Gee, for someone who claimed they created the best invention possible, a "FILTER" to remove my postings from your VIEW, it seems that you may have fooled YOURSELF, as you seem to still be keeping close tabs....

I guess you just can't take "The Heat".....

Or maybe you can.....

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO......!

One last thing for you "Geniuses"....

Suppose you Don't Have A Cart to Reference?

Like all of those Denon CDJ owners?

What's the "Most Accurate" way to CUE now?

Your Theory Falls Apart now right?

Or are you going to pick some random reference point.....

lmao...

www.djjohnnym.com

LMAO - this is one of the dumbest post ever...



LMAO, do you know how to use the word "most". It requires at least TWO things to compare! wtf!?

If there is no cart then its not even a damn option in the first place.

The Whopper is cheaper at Mcdonalds aint it?

This is some RR type sever dumbness.

wow

nm

Proof Using The Cart As A Reference Is MORE Accurate

lh6.googleusercontent.com

Line A represents the orientation of the deck. This edge of the deck is closer than 12o'clock but about the same as using any edge of the deck for orientation.

Line B at a right angle is the 12o'clock line.

Line C is the 3o'clock line, right angle to Line A, the turntable edge.

Line D is the relative Cart position, about 2o'clock.

All these lines are inferred, taking cues from the stationary spindle, the stationary edge of the deck and moving cart which essentially moves along Line D over time.

lh4.googleusercontent.com

Segment EF represents the distance the cart may be at any given time from the Sticker. Distance is about 10". At point E the cart is 0" from the Sticker.

lh4.googleusercontent.com

Segment GH represents the constant distance the Sticker is from the reference edge of the deck and is about 11".

The closer two objects are together the more accurate the relationship between them can be measured with the same resolution.

GH is always 11" compared to the maximum distance EF which is 10" at most. Therefore when the cart is place at the front of the vinyl it is about 11/10 more accurate. And when the cart is at point E it is about 11/0 more accurate.

lh5.googleusercontent.com

Obviously this my not be the most important measure in deciding which to use but, the FACT remains.

And yeah, if you dont have a cart in the first place…….. LMAO

Bwhaahahahahahaha!

All you did was abandon your first argument of "Alignment" and are running with "Distance", which NOBODY disputed in the first place....

Remember this? ->

That was your ENTIRE argument.....lmao.

You can't even argue with yourself correctly.

Now you've completely forgotten the lesson of the day.....

So, there are NO reference points for said user of said Denon CDJ to use the marker against?

Then what the hell would they mark the platter for Mr. Bill?

LMAO @ nothing to compare....

Again, I'll keep it simple for you...

www.djjohnnym.com

Wrong, my argument has been consistant
serato.com
""The cart is the closest thing to the sticker - more accurate.

It has always been about the distance. YOU are just too dumb to realize what two objects are being measure for distance. So that was a tangent.



Incorrect. My argument is now and always has been all through the argument - THE CART IS CLOSER TO THE STICKER.

The QUESTION became closer than WHAT? The reason for what is YOU claimed you dont need your sticker to line up with anything at all. Remember this dumb shit?



Again, what are you measuring it against?

[sticker]------->[cart]

compared to

[sticker]------------------>[unknown??]

YOU claimed your sticker doesn't point at anything, there is no reference it doesnt line up to anything - then you change that to a damn fold up table, or yourself, or whatever...

The simple fact is it lines up to the deck edge.

[b]
[sticker]------->[cart]

compared to

[sticker]------------------>[DECK EDGE!][/b]

two different distances. But obviously you have to know what two points the distance between is being measured.




simple damn question: what distance are YOU measuring?


nm

simple



lh4.googleusercontent.com

what TWO distances are you comparing?

of course there are reference points, any degree in relation to the straight edges of the deck, or anything else stationary on the deck.

how do you know where 12 is on the deck?

duh

No idiot..

I said ->



Then I've figured out your problem.

You just can't read AND comprehend.

Umm...that was YOUR dumb tangent...again.

And yes I said -


And your actually SUPPORT what I said by saying this ->

Unless, again you just can't tell time....



No, I've ALWAYS said the sticker points to 6'o clock...

I get it...

Now not only can't you read and comprehend, you can't tell time without right angles...

That's sheer greatness right thurr...

LMAO...

correct



Incorrect.

The distance from the sticker to the cart is SHORTER than the distance from the sticker to the what orientates you to 6. (you said you orient to the fold up table edge)



correct



Again, its MORE ACCURATE because what you are pointing to 6 is further away from the sticker than the Cart.

You just cant comprehend it tho.

Again, how do you know the sticker is at 6? Because it is at a right angle to the botom edge of the turntable, or paralel to the vertical edges of the table - both are further away.




Obviously because the software gui orients the gui sticker to 12, so most DJ would follow suit. Besides the ones who understand how to get more accuracy out of the system which is quite a few.




how can the software point to the cart? LMAO what cart?

The software should stay aligned with the vinyl even if cues are triggered.

(this dude just has a very low level of comprehension)




incorrect. It has to do with DISTANCE, it just so happens that is is DISTANCE between objects in ALIGNMENT.

Uh, thats exactly whats happening - imagined/perceived lines of alignment. If there was not an imagined line from the spindle to 6, how would you know when the sticker is actually at 6?

again, in this photo, how do you know what degree its at if there is nothing to measure
lh4.googleusercontent.com

again your red horizontal line
lh4.googleusercontent.com
is it "just a coincidence" that it is parellel to the botom edge of the deck? It just happens to line up that way?

obviously not

The true measure of that red line is the edge of the turntable. Otherwise how do you know that red line is orientated correctly?




LMAO yeah but ur ol dumb ass cant quite figure out what the SOMETHING is!


and ur too hard headed and butt hurt to imagine I know wtf Im talking about - LMAO!!!




In relation to the deck (if whatever trying to say makes any sense) you said yourself you had to reorient to 3o'clock depending on the decks position. That means the clock rotated 90º (yes in your mind - sigh)

The clock is imagined and therefore arbitrary.




uh yeah...... my decks can be askew from the table however many degrees and it means nothing. I can place my decks on a circle table and means nothing. I could place my decks on the ground, an infinite plane and again it will mean absolutely nothing.

The alignment Im looking at is the rotating vinyl verse the stationary turntable.

ur dumb as all hell to be worried about how the deck orients to the table in relation to the record spinning.

Dumb as bag of fucking roger rabbits for that one fam.




And again the distance from the sticker to the cart AND the sticker to the (LMAO) table is huge.

distance
[sticker]---------->[cart]

verse

[sticker]-------------------------------------------------------------
---------->[thedamn table]

LMAO


I actually know you arnt using the tableas a reference other wise you couldnt even perform anything.

The fact that you are using the turntable as a clock just escapes your thick ass skull piece.




Not at all, I am talking about the DISTANCE between the TWO objects being ALIGNED, and always have been

but I already said that aint I?








ALIGNEMENT of WHAT?!

I guess we are just going to keep playing the 'never answer the question game'.







Trust me - you already are.

DJs can do whatever they want. Most using Serato orient to 12 like the software does. You orient to 6 obviously not being influenced by Serato. I orient to the cart KNOWING it is more accurate, and ALSO use any of the 360º preferably the right angles but certainly not limited to them.



.....because it is more accurate.




Distance has always been in the equation.



yes.

which means you think you can determine the angle of the sticker WOUTH ANY REFERENCE.

again what angle is the sticker at?
lh4.googleusercontent.com


not like you aint already failed the test.



I dont advise it, but it is very easily done for quick mixing. not a problem at all.





no. the sweet spot I choose is about 5min on the 10min side.




Again, ALIGNMENT OF WHAT?




I never said it wasnt a preference. Im not telling mfs how to do it. I dont care if you choose no sticker, or no turntable, or just quit.


This thread is for my on benefit first.

My argument is data for anyone who cares about ACCURACY and how to get a little more.




ok. In this diagram you are aligning 6 with the edges of the .jpg square (in place of using the edge of the decks). Your cart position looks about right 30º

In your example whats being used for orientation is the grid of the jpg. And actually aligning to one of the 90º works best because its a known fact. I had to make an visual estimate about the 30º in relation to the .jpg being correct. less accurate.

If you brought the CART into this diagram the accuracy might change. Because I am talking about the sticker in relation to the CART, not necessarily 30º.









And again you seem to be incapable of determining what TWO objects are being ALIGNED and therefor incapable of determining the distance between the two objects. Therefore incapable of comparing the TWO distances.




Correct.

Probably the reason no one has agreed with you so far.



AND you also said you look at the damn desk/table which is even further and dumber to be looking at. you are all over the place.

And you failed this simple test. If the above were true, you would be able to tell what position the label is without any further information in field.

plus.google.com

where is that sticker pointing?

LMAO





obviously my knowledge of time, physics and mathematics eclipses yours.

No, its just another in a string of rhetorical questions you cant answer?

The answer is the clock is imagined and a mental construct in 3 parts.
1 The spindle is used as the center (from where the sticker radiates as a line)
2 From this center point there are four quadrants aligned to the edges of the deck
3 From the center a line made bt two quadrant edges radiates to make a right angle with the furthest edge of the deck, this point is 12 o'clock (0º)

There are obviously many otherwise to create the construct and determine the position. But all of them require some actual fixed positions to build the imagined clock from. And those fixed positions are the edges of the deck. Most people do this naturally due to innate human abilities like determining right angles. But it takes a little bit more intelligence to logically map out how its done.

This is why I keep asking you how you determine where 6 is and you cant even fathom what Im talking about. For you and your non-scientific superstitious delusional walnut its 'just there'.

whatever cat, ur not built for this


And there is no way in hell you could give any sort of comparable explanation.
(thats a challenge)





6 o'clock is an IMAGINED location. How do you decide where to place 6o'clock!

RIGHT ANGLES OF WHAT???!!!


man, dudes dumb as ten bags of roger rabbits right now

I ain't readin' all that *ish...

You can't read and comprehend, nor can you tell time....

Not that you'd need to....

angles VS distance

they both work


can we just get some #stickersync already

They both work as "ways of thinking"


But you can't set up the angles without a reference. And the closer the reference, the more accurate.

Usually you don't quit so easy - it must be sinking in.

Anyway, thanks for the argument, I always appreciate being able to bring out the dumbest things ever said on the forum from you.

LMAO - at you don't need to look past the label to know if the sticker is on point - LMAO

later

LMAO - no, you actually line up the sticker with the fold up table - LMAO

Best BS ever, thanks fam!


nm

No, once I realized that you think you NEED straight edges in order to reference TIME on a CLOCK, you've already demonstrated that you're only here to promote AKIEM's world where those things are "Normal".

Hell, you won't even admit that standing in front of a turntable doesn't give you a logical reference of what 6 o'clock is means you're just living in AKIEM'S world again.

Oh, and good luck at you pretending that you're DJ'ing at Hot 97 with cattycorner turntables...

And got the NERVE to talk about what "Most" DJ setups are like...

LMAO, dude, you couldn't even stick with your "Initial" Argument that it was purely based on "Alignment", not distance, and that's where I knew I won.

LMAO @ you trying to create another "Math Puzzle" thread....

It's as simple as www.djjohnnym.com

They both work as "ways of thinking"

LMAO, here comes "AKIEM's Ambiguity Clause".

That's the only thing that we ALL can expect from you.

LMAO, here comes "AKIEM's Ambiguity Clause".

That's the only thing that we ALL can expect from you and is consistent in EVERY argument/debate that you are involved in.

And just to drive the nail in the coffin, just to HUMOR YOU, let's say YES I have to determine that the marker is straight, and by your method, I need to look at the Table or Turntable edges, etc to make that verification.

Here's the thing....

When I (and the MAJORITY of the DJ world), put the turntables, coffin, console, controller or whatever device on the TABLE, MOST of us would make sure that it's sitting with the edges lined up.

So that's it. We've done our "Alignment" to the table as soon as we set up.

End of story.

Now all we need to do is know what TIME 6 o'clock (or 12 o'clock for most Serato DJ's) is in reference to us standing behind the table (which MOST DJ's do), with the equipment DIRECTLY in front of us.

Do you see how ridiculous you sound disputing that argument?

In AKIEM'S world, it's POSSIBLE, that the DJ is NOT standing directly behind the equipment, or that the turntables, coffin, console, controller or whatever device on the table, are just thrown on there, ANY OLD WAY, lol, or hell, is there even a TABLE in AKIEM's world? lmao.

Regardless, we have to make that alignment ONCE, (to the table, right angles, or whatever) while you have to constantly refer to where the cart is.

Or in AKIEM's world, the devices on the table (if such a table exists), are constantly MOVING, so you have to redetermine the right angles again.

Yeah, ok.

AKIEM's World coming soon to an imagination near you.

Oh, I was mistaken - you want to keep the argument going by ignoring all shown facts and logic. Not the first time that lame tactics been used around here.




Incorrect. If you are using an object (the rectangle turntable) as a clock and orienting it to that object you need to LOOK at the parallel and right angles of the object.
(but you cant comprehend this)



incorrect. Sure you can choose which side of the turntable is 6o'oclock (oh wait - are you looking at the turntable to choose a side? lmao). But what you cant see is that the precision required for what we are doing necessitates seeing the STICKER, in relation to the bottom edge of the turntable at a right angle.
(but you cant comprehend this)

You think you do not need that bottom edge (or parallel to other edges or in relation to other fixed object) to align the sticker but you do.

In order to be precisely at 180º the sticker has to be at a right angle to the bottom edge. You have to see the bottom edge to make that measurement.
(but you cant comprehend this)



If I were to use those decks I would not be thrown off by any rotation of the decks. You on the other hand would not know where 6 is because the desk is skewed and shaped funny. As you said, you need the right angle of a table (LMAO)



Most set ups are in battle position these days, before that advent they were in normal (disco). I few clubs and DJs used "strange" angles.
www.soulsessionsradio.com

Therefore it has nothing to do with how the deck is position because the deck is whats being referenced not the damn fold up table(LMAO)
(but you cant comprehend this)



incorrect. My initial statement is here:
serato.com
"the closer two objects are together the more accurate the relationship between them can be measured with the same resolution."

My argument require both 'angle' and 'distance' to be understood.
(but you cant comprehend this)



Incorrect. Your diagram does not show the relationship in distance or angle to whats being measured.

In this diagram you are aligning 6 with the edges of the .jpg square (in place of using the edge of the decks). Your cart position looks about right 30º

In your example whats being used for orientation is the grid of the jpg. And actually aligning to one of the 90º works best because its a known fact. I had to make an visual estimate about the 30º in relation to the .jpg being correct. less accurate.

If you brought the CART into this diagram the accuracy might change. Because I am talking about the sticker in relation to the CART, not necessarily 30º.
(but you cant comprehend this)







incorrect. Ambiguity requires dissociating relavent factors. This is EXATLY what you are doing with you ambiguas diagram omitting the relevant information. All of your arguments follow suit.
(but you cant comprehend this)





LMAO - EVERYONE orients the vinyl in relation to the turntable - LMAO

Even you, there really is no other way to do it (the fold up table LMAO)

ok

no, whats DUMB is worrying about the alignment of the table (LMAO)

lh3.googleusercontent.com

YOU and everyone including me puts decks on the table square, fine.

Now in locating 180º precisely (not just what side) you use an imagined line at 90º to the table edge AND the turntable edge. The turntable edge is parallel to the table.

BUT who cares about the table when making sure the STICKER on the LABEL is at 90º to those parallel lines. Use that damn turntable (as you obviously actually do) Its CLOSER.

What you MIGHT be confused about is - We are not talking about choosing which side of the deck (or table) is 6o'oclock. We are talking about finding precisely 180º rotation of the STICKER. In order to do that it has to be precisely SQUARE with the TURNTABLE. Not just pointing in that general direction.
(but you cant comprehend this)




And only the dumbest of DJs must stand in some certain position to spin. My decks can be askew from the table however many degrees and it means nothing. I can place my decks on a circle table and means nothing. I could place my decks on the ground, an infinite plane and again it will mean absolutely nothing.

This leads me to believe you were straight up lying about how you would battle cats on their own decks from the back side of the table if I remember correctly how you were saying.

That would be impressive - but damn impossible for a dude who uses himself as an orientation in the sticker position.

Which dosent happen anyway because you are not at a stationary point of reference.

Agian - you have absolutely no concept of what the discussion even is - all you are doing is choosing which side of the table is 6. Everything else requires a little more inteligence to realize what the fuck is gong on.

Im using math and geometry, you are using low level superstition and instinct.




Incorrect. The alignment has to be found every time you rotate the vinyl to precisely 180º. You have to make sure its square with the deck not just pointing generally "down".

Its clear to me now that the entire discussion completely escapes your rudimentary level of understanding the mechanics of whats taking place. You have just been using language "like" mine but beyond your level of understanding.









All you are talking about is what side of the deck you are standing on.







I am talking about something MUCH more intricate and mathematical. Now I see everything is going WAY over your head. You are probably not even looking at the digrams I posted, and if you did shit looks like random lines and numbers.

And the main problem, is you think you know everything and cant imagine Im dealing with something much more advance, thats why you wont answer my questions or even investigate whit I am saying. Stuck below 32º.












uh yeah. Its called a record. It spins on a turntable. OBVIOUSLY you have to redetermine the angles. We are comparing the rotation of the STICKER to the right angles of the TURNTABLE.
(but you cant comprehend this)




This is my fault. Obviously Ive been talking to a dude not ready for this discussion who has just been spitting out the same language and terms.


I could walk him through it but he would have to answer questions in order for me to know he is correctly following the logic.


oh well.









Unless you paint a clock on your deck the lines and angles we are talking about are obviously imagined. Thats why the distance between them is important, they are visual estimations, the closer they are the more accurate.
(but you cant comprehend this)


Let me know when your ego lets me educate you on the matter.

I started using a mark with CDJs
www.djresource.eu

nothing to measure from....


what time is it?
www.eversetclocks.com

9 o clock

I have no problem using my markers and an angle. (12 o clock battle style, 3 o clock disco style). even when the tables are tilted out. my brain adjusts.

that being said. I've been using the tonearm as an indicator more often of late. It just works.

my whole point is....
s.quickmeme.com

LOL, I ain't readin' all that...

AKIEM's World...

Price of Admission - Lack of Common Sense....

ORLY. News to us, huh.

Course you ain't reading all that, it's all above your level of comprehension. No reasons for you to even be in this thread, you're not qualified for the discussion.

Right about my slip in common sense tho, talking to like you had some practical sense.

Anyway, thanks again for one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen on here.

And again, I'm offering to walk you through it, but I know your ego will never let you past that 32º of comfortable ignorance.

Ahh, the Forum Crossing Guard....

I see you have a lot of "Pride" also...

You go gurl.

No thanks,

I can already tell time.... :-)

You mean mommy told you to 'wait for the biggie hand to point to your belly button before you could get out of time out for touching Timmy in the 'bad part'. And no one could tell you shit since, that's the level you are froze at.



LMAO

It don't work that way old fella

lh6.googleusercontent.com

Ignorance illustrated.

You definitely ain't built for this thread, I'm talking about how clocks are built.

LMAO

i.imgur.com

LMAO.

I'm actually comfortable with my skill level, just keep from rusting at this point.

Truth be told, the data generated from this discussion is useful for teaching my students. They need to know much more than how to wait for the sticker thingy to point at them.

But I can dig it.

Nm

SMH, you should listen to the advice of this man.... -> www.djjohnnym.com

Sticker to the outer edge of platter, as it does not have a needle to worry about.
When doing this, you will also see that the player has a lot of "pretty lights" & buttons for physical reference in very short distance to the sticker, right on the actual player.

wrong, he doesn't need a reference he mysteriously just "knows"



LMAO

this discussion becomes completely irrelevant as soon as you start scratching the snare.

cart isn't anywhere near it.