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Have you looked?

First things first, how much are you willing to spend? What application are you planning to use a sub for? Weddings? Live band? Indoor /outdoor? Halls/clubs? Do you have tops? Give us some info so we can steer you into a right direction.

I would love a all around sub for all Applications outdoors and indoors. I am using QSC for tops K12 but I will be using them i'm mostly for indoors, weddings, halls and bars. And the spending I see they go as high as $2000 for what I see on zzounds. Now question also if I do use the sub outside i'm figuring a lot of the subs would be lost cause that is a hard application to fill but I will figure if I sub can feel that application it can fill a indoors with no problem.

For indoor use, the qsc kw181 would be a perfect match for the k12.

You are correct about using subs outdoors, the bass would have no boundaries to reflex on. Indoors, a single qsc kw181 can hold its own with weddings up to about 150 people. With two indoors for weddings, it can handle up to 250 without breaking a sweat.

Outdoors would be a different story. More subs would be needed, or use louder subs like the yorkville Ls801p, yamaha dxs18 for example. The crossover would match better using qsc kw181 with your K12 however. Other people here on this forum I'm sure will recommend more subs for you. Good luck

The best subs usually start around $2000 passive and can run double or triple that powered. If your running K12s I don't really think you're looking for the best that are out there. Figure out what your needs are and what your budget is. Then do some reading, there are plenty of reviews and comparisons out there on most of the major brands of subs. Then try to demo the ones that interest you, what's great to you might not fill my needs at all.

Hope I'm doing this right first time but I was looking to pick your brain Taipanic. What do you mean I'm not looking for the best if I'm running K12? Educate me please. I'm learning

K12s as midrange tops designed for small-size use. The "best" subwoofers will overpower them easily.

You're definitely not looking for "the best" so drop a price range, and expected amount of people you want to cover and you'll get recommendations for the best in the class you need - realistically of course.

Oh ok I see Dj_Soo thanks for that. But I will probably would like the best still could I can tone it down. But let me know what will be better then the K12's. Cause I am looking to upgrade them also. They are starting to be not right for me right now. I'm looking to do 300+ next year so I'm getting ready now. It's why I'm looking and getting info.

Yes, the QSC subs are intermediate level.
The question is:
Do you want to spend $$$ on super pro gear, or will it be overkill for your application.
If 2 QSC's will provide all the bass you need, why drop the cash on the super expensive stuff. But if you want big bass on a higher level, the JBL srx828sp ($1900 dual 18") is a great option. 2 of those will positively ROCK.
Gear on a pro level gets you into brands like RCP, Danley, Martin, etc... These brands are usually much more expensive, and are used by big time sound reinforcement companies.

If you want the Best sub that outperforms all the "Regular" dj subs and is small, scalable and portable.....these are the current winners.

RCF SUB 8004-AS
BASSBOSS SSP118

You could always do the Meyer 1100 LFC but you're taking about $14k per cabinet.

Pdidy
thanks checking out the bass boss. Looking like what I been looking for. I rather have over kill then. It enough. Cause I can also turn it down. Thanks for the info

Sorry, been busy working.

The QSC series has been around for quite a while without any real upgrades. While it is virtually bulletproof and sounds decent, it isn't on par with the latest powered speakers in its price range. New speakers have DSP with more protection and better sound shaping. My personal opinion is that the QSCs get very sharp when pushed hard, I do not like the sound.

Decent mobile subs range from the 800-2500 range and up.
EV - decent subs in each price range
Yamaha - new 18 has been getting good reviews, though it is a bandpass. Their DSR112 tops are one of the best 12" tops around, very loud and clear, need to use with subs though.
Yorkville - the LS801 still brings more boom for the buck than most others, though it is big, heavy and awkward to load by yourself. One sub will suffice for most wedding type stuff.
JBL - new SRX series has been getting a lot of love, especially the dual 18 as a good value.
RCF - good quality subs and tops all around

Moving up the pay scale...
JBL VRX - subs go low and sound good for a small cabinet. Will need 4 or more for higher output. Tops have a very nice array look that is popular and can sound good. Again, will need multiples of each, at least 2 a side.
JTR - small high end manufacturer of Pro and high end home theater speakers. One of the best quality/value brands out there, in my opinion. I own their Orbit Shifter subs and Noesis 3TX tops. 4 subs and two tops can do 1000 people well. Very good sound quality, reasonable pricing for what it is.
Bassboss - another small manufacturer. People seem to like their stuff and the owner seems very approachable though I haven't personally heard any of their gear yet.
Danley - another great small high end manufacturer. Super genius engineers and designers. Great sound quality, probably a third or more higher price than JTR gear.

You have to figure out how much sound you really need for the type of gigs you do. Half the PA I own is overkill for many events, I have multiple systems to cover a wide variety of gigs but if you need to stick to one get gear that is good and will provide adequate sound levels for your average gig. You can always rent more gear if you have some bigger gigs.

Buy a VOID Incubus Sub 3x21" 6000 WATT RMS passive though or
SoundPorjects SP2-21 2x21" 5000 WATT RMS active sub.

Don't know what the prices are but you can bet around 10.000 Euro's each.

I finally got to hear the BassBoss SSP218. A band had two stacked per side with JBL SRX 835s. This was setup for opening day for the Houston Astros. They were hitting pretty damn hard.

any thoughts on turbosound IQ seried 18"?

the newer tops have been getting some love and the 10 year warranty is nothing to scoff at, but I haven't heard much in terms of their subs.

Specwise, they are pretty underwhelming tho with the -3db rolloff starting at 50hz so it's likely not going to go as low as some of the competition.

I've never heard it tho.

Thanks dj-soo, currently I'm using 2 JBL 4719Xs and 2 JBL 4733s on each side for our band. We play pretty hard rock and it works well for any indoor situation we've had. Mostly smaller theaters holding 3-500. We haven't used it outdoors. We like the idea of used powered speakers for ease of use and built in DSP as in the Turbosound. We were looking at the 18s and perhaps the IQ 15" 2 way for the top. I wonder if it would be a trade up or?

thanks

JBL is traditionally considered a good choice for live bands given they tend to have a very flat response. Could look at the PRX line although the SRX line is considered the best of their midrange offerings (although they are pricier than the turbosound boxes you're looking at).

I guess it depends on your budget tho. Turbosound is a bit of an unproven company despite their past history as they were purchased by Music Group and rebranded as more of a midrange powered line, but the 10 year warranty is a big plus. The fact that it's more for live bands might mean the comparably weaker depth of those subs won't be as much of an issue since you likely don't need to reproduce that deep subbass that is better for electronic and hip hop music. I would also think - given the specs, that turbosound system would definitely be pushing it for 500 people.

Around these parts, EV, QSC, Yamaha, JBL, and Yamaha tend to be the companies most recommend.

I would also recommend 12" tops if you're going with subs. You'll get better clarity due to the smaller woofer in the top. I'd only look at 15" tops if you were going with the 3-ways like the SRX 835P or something.

Another option to consider if you're looking more for clarity of sound and ease of transport would be some of the column speakers offered. The options I would consider would be a pair of the RCF EVOX12s or the db Technologies ES1203s. Again, 500 people might be pushing it, but in terms of throw, coverage, and ease of transport/setup in an attractive package, these would be good options.

The EVOX12 is less scalable than the ES1203s as you could potentially grab two more of the 1203s and have two 4-speaker columns over a pair of the subs on either side with 4 of them.

DJ-Soo

Thanks for your input. As I said, we're using the JBLs right now which is 4 18' and 4 15's on each side with the horns on the 4733s. We're thinking 2 18s on each side with two tops. I've heard the TurboSound 12s, they sound great and they're pushing 2500w each. I'm hoping that the turbosound will be better than the current JBLs. Although we have 4 18s and 4 15s, the 4719 and 4733s are pushing far less power than the TurboSound would but a little hesitant to pull the trigger as it is a lot of money for me.

Listed wattage tells you almost nothing about performance these days and are basically all lies and marketing.

I highly doubt that two of the turbosound subs are going to give you the performance you want as they are firmly midrange subs with fairly average max Spl.

dj-soo,

Any thoughts to stay within that price range to get the same bang I'm getting now? The 4719s are twin 18s in a horizontal format and we put two on each side. The 4733s are twin 15s with a 60 degree horn with a 2447j driver. It does fine but the set up is getting old, they are heavy and the possibility of not having to have power amps was appealing. We now use in ear monitors and can't believe how much nicer it is without having monitors, amps etc. If 2 turbosound 18s on each side won't do, I might have to rethink things. However, the turbosound 12s sound really good. I've heard those in person. They packed quick the punch for being fairly small.

Taro1958 it is not wise to invest your time and what very little money have in an unproven speaker system or brand. Dump the turbo idea....

I'm not familiar enough with those old JBLs to really give you a comparison, but a $1000 sub really isn't going to push that much to be honest - just about anything in that price range is going to struggle a bit for crowds of 500 imo, but my frame of reference tends to be more for DJing with prerecorded music that requires deep and loud bass. I run a similar class sub with a pair of Cerwin Vega CVX18S and I'd probably max out at about 300 people for a wedding style performance (where not all 300 are expected on the dancefloor) and the specs for that sub suggest better performance than the Turbosound subs.

If you want bang for buck, going passive will get you better performance for your money - part of what you're paying for in powered speakers is the convenience of having built in amps and dsp. Unfortunately, that's also means you have to pay for the amp module and processing module in addition to the cabinet and drivers for each box.

One thing I might suggest is to just find out what brand your local rental houses stock and buy a pair of those, and just rent an additional pair for your larger shows. Just make sure your tops have a compatible featureset as different companies handle crossovers differently and you need to make sure you don't for instance get a top that requires the sub have an active high pass and a sub that requires the tops having a high pass filter.

For the tops in terms of performance, I've never heard those particular speakers, but most midrange tops like QSC K-series, EV EKX, Yamaha DXR, JBL PRX, RCF ART-300 will probably perform about the same and it's more individual preferences in terms of sound signatures and features. The Turbosounds are fairly cheap in price, but it's likely because they are still trying to get a foothold in the mid-range prosumer market.

While I agree with pdiddy that turbosound is a bit of a risk given their unproven nature since being purchased by Music Group, the 10 year warranty might mitigate that concern a bit - although it will depend on the level of service by the company. A 10 year warranty won't mean as much if it takes them 2+ months to fix any issues.

"Listed wattage tells you almost nothing about performance these days and are basically all lies and marketing."

"If you want bang for buck, going passive will get you better performance for your money - part of what you're paying for in powered speakers is the convenience of having built in amps and dsp. Unfortunately, that's also means you have to pay for the amp module and processing module in addition to the cabinet and drivers for each box."

Excellent advice

Slight thread jack,

the RCF EVOX 8, about how large of an event do you think that could handle (a single unit).

What about the EVOX 12?

Single EVOX 8? You could make announcements for 300+ people but dancing maybe 50? Single EVOX12 maybe 500 for announcements and 100ish dancing at wedding volumes indoors. Depends on your expectations.

I've heard some people say a pair of evox8s can handle a 200-205ish wedding - so I guess it really depends on your expectations.

A wedding of 200 with a pair of EVOX8 would have to be in a room with amazing acoustics where you got to setup in the ideal location or have a small dance floor. A pair of EVOX12s no problem.

WOW , I would have never thought I'd find so many audio geeks here ! I too am a semi - retired car-fi geek. I've done many home installs as well as designed / installed systems for the car. My hats off to the many fine suggestions, but can't help but chime in.

NEVER hook up a suspected blown driver (speaker) like all these types soundrating.com to a "known good source from your receiver" unless of course you want the (possibly shorted) speaker in question to take out your amplifier (hopefully just a fuse) Use an ohmeter for starters, then try "popping" the speaker with a 1-1/2 volt battery (connect the battery to the speaker and it will "pop") you can also check the polarity of speakers in this fashion. Once you establish the speaker is in fact OK then you can connect it to music / etc. to verify that the voice coil doesn't rub etc. - C'mon guys how'd you all miss this ?

On task of the original question, pick a driver with good fs/qts parameters (lower is better) build a 2ft / 1ft bandpass tuned to 20 hz/50hz, apply ample amounts of power, and AMEN - enjoy. Yes I take a simpler approach to subwoofer design, because I've built hundreds of boxes. Some work well, some do not. When I am in doubt, I get on the phone to technical assistance and get the "mad scientist" box designer (from whichever manufacturer's speaker I'm dealing with) and tell them what I have to work with and most all times, they are thrilled to oblige (since they tend to do the same-same "design a box that joe consumer wont destroy our woofer in" everyday) In short , I dont care who's subwoofer you use, I know I can design and build a box for it that will work well. I've got a no-name 15" in a ported box that plays 15hz like it owes you money, 25hz and you can't see straight. A PV 1.3K bridged on it doesn't hurt either.

If I couldnt build my own stuff, I would go with the Velodyne servo controlled 18 -sweet like candy. If size is an issue - the solution is a bandpass mounted in the basement (between the floor joists) playing up through the floor (in a corner) works like magic.

any thoughts on turbosound IQ seried 18"@ gearly.org ?

Tim have reviewed best subwoofers in the market. He is a sound engineer and reviews those products which he has tested for himself. I am sure that it will help you to get a best subwoofer.

You can see updated reviews about subwoofers here: speakershunter.com

Let me know if you have any questions. I am not that techy guy but I would love to answer.
Thanks!

Hey Rocker! it SHOULD sound authentic!
I would love to hear songs from this website , all information is here bestspeakerz.com

When I am in doubt, I get on the phone to technical assistance and get the "mad scientist" box designer from whichever manufacturer's speaker.

I'm dealing with and tell them what I have to work with and most all times, they are thrilled to oblige (since they tend to do the same-same "design a box that joe consumer wont destroy our woofer in everyday In short.

I dont care who's subwoofer you use, I know I can design and build a box for it that will work well.

Ive got a no name 15 in a ported box that plays 15hz like it owes you money, 25hz and you can't see straight. A PV 1.3K bridged on it doesn't hurt either.

If I couldnt build my own stuff, I would go with the Velodyne servo controlled 18 -sweet like candy.

If size is an issue - the solution is a bandpass mounted in the basement (between the floor joists) playing up through the floor in a corner works like magic.
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