Hey Amos,

Where are your estimate sliders set under the scope views in Setup?

This has been happening to me the last few gigs and is really annoying!! You get that audio/USB dropout then the latency from hell on vinyl happens. I found a loop hole until this horrible problem gets fixed: Move your audio buffer slider one notch (or just move it once and put it right back where you had it) then click 'apply'. This will fix the problem temporarily until happens again in 20-40 min. You'll get the annoying sound cutoff when you click 'apply', but you'll be back in business for the next few minutes till it happens again.

THIS NEEDS A FIX ASAP!!!

Hi Zach,
The sliders were all the way to the right if I'm remembering correctly.

Thanks for the tip DJ PopRoXXX.

I have not heard of this issue or the workaround but thanks for the info Pop.

Amos.. yes.. try moving the audio buffer an/or the estimate slider.

I can confirm the the latency from hell with vinyl
This usually for me happens when i have pitch n time enabled and do some scratch practice like for 10 minutes. Then take a 30 minute break After that break when i get back to the turntables to scratch again there is a latency between the record movement and what is being shown with the sdj wave form in the software, there is a delay in the wave form is movement in relation to my hand movement.
. For me the work a round was to always restart sdj. But thanks to poproxxx is method works for me too

I agree with this needs to be fixed Zach the reason why this is not reported its because some of us are getting frustrated with these dvs instabilities in sdj and just deciding to stick with scratchlive.

Here is another thread reporting the same issue

serato.com

Thanks guys.

I'll let the Serato mods know.

Cool. Thanks! This is an important bug to be fixed!! Happened again last night twice at Universal. I could be wrong, but I'm noticing that it's mainly happening with the boxes (SL4 at least). Haven't heard any jocks with a 62 and other mixers with this problem. Maybe the 68, but haven't heard of any of the new mixers/controllers having this problem with the software

I'll most likely be going back to SSL 2.5 for my Universal gigs for now until this is resolved

Never mind. Saw a post with this issue on a 62. CRAP! lol

Yup same thing happened to me tonight on a 62 and a brand new MBP.. I've also been noticing one of the decks switching into internal mode periodically and I have needle dropping turned off.. First things first though this extreme latency issue is crazy.. Hopefully switching back to SSL will resolve this issue for now.

re: the internal switching thing...I thought I just hit a wrong button at the time, but now that you mention it, i think that was happening to me too. Thursday I used the VCI-380, so nothing to add there, but Saturday I busted out the SixtyFour again with no issues. The variables vs. last incident, are that I wasn't recording and I was using Serato video as well as using my own turntables, which are grounded from the chassis with a 3 prong plug. ( www.facebook.com ) During the event where I had the issue, I was using the in house, classically grounded 1200 MKII turntables.

I'm thinking the recording function is the issue, since the drop outs happened for me just before the switch to the new recording. I normally only record my house nights which are once a month and are my only non-video events. I might have some time over spring break to run a test or two.

I'm a SixtyFour user, so going back to SSL is not an option for me.

I wasn't recording when it happened to me, nor was I mixing video... However this has happened to me during both as well.. I did switch back to SSL and didn't have any issues as of yet

Yes.. this issue with jumping to INT mode on its own is a bug.
Hopefully Serato will get it fixed in the next release.

Another thread in the sdj discussion about this issue

serato.com

having the same issue with my 1200's with SDJ 1.6 & my 68. I was neither recording nor was I doing video, I do use the pitch in time plugin though...

This needs to fixed ASAP!! Even if it is its own quick release before anything else.

Hey DJ PopRoXXX

Can you please give me the exact steps you can take to reproduce this issue? I've had a couple of tries and I can't get the result you are describing. If I can reproduce it, I can log it as a bug for the development team to investigate.

Let me know how the best way to get it happening.

Aaron

Hey Aaron,
It happened to me again last night, which makes twice. I'll describe both events in as much detail as possible below. I had 5-7 gigs with the SixtyFour prior to my fist problem. The last change I made to my system was switching out an external 2TB OWC RAID for a 2TB G-drive (FW800) on 3/12, so I'm ruling that out, since that change was after the first problem. I've had the SixtyFour since 1/24 and first gigged with it on 2/8 and performed 7 shows with the current configuration before having an issue. I still do 2-3 gigs a month with VCI-380 and have no problems with that device. I'm the OP on the thread, so see above for specs & versions.

First Event - House Night Tuesday 3/11
I was playing audio files only, using USB port B, recording, using 1200 MK2s & Rane SixtyFour, most content on external Firewire 2TB G-drive. After review of the recording I came up with the following timeline: I started at 10pm and at about 11:50 (1:49:46 on the recording), experienced 2 quick drop outs, then had the issue on the next track loaded for the remainder of the night.

3/12 - USB & Firewire cables replaced.
Gig 3/15 with SixtyFour & grounded 1210 MK5s, USB port A, Music Videos 9-2 - No Issue
Gig 3/15 with SixtyFour & grounded 1210 MK5s, USB port A, Music Videos 9-2 - No Issue

3/22 with SixtyFour & grounded 1210 MK5s spinning Music Videos 9:30-1:50
Drop out at 1:35pm, latency issue started on next load. Resolved by adjusting buffer in SixtyFour System Preference window, resulting in a self inflicted drop out.

Quoted for emphasis:
DJ PopRoXXX 12:53 PM - 20 March, 2014
This needs to fixed ASAP!! Even if it is its own quick release before anything else.

Serious question: as a busy SixtyFour user, is it time to roll back OS & Serato versions until you guys get a handle on this?

Thanks DJ Amos Myth

I'm going to have a good go at reproducing this again today, and I'll let you know what I find out.

In the meantime, could everyone who is experiencing this issue please tell me where they have their USB buffer sliders set - both in the Serato DJ Setup > Audio screen, and in the Rane driver panel?

Cheers
Aaron

My last settings were 18ms in the SixtyFour preferences (now set to 25ms) and 2ms in the program setup (now set to 5ms)

Tonight while doing a 4 turntable 2 dj practice session for a gig this Friday, we were able to produce the problem after 1 hour with my original settings above. The new, higher USB buffer settings are untested. Also had a weird thing with the far right deck switching to Internal mode when dropping the needle at the start. It also seems to drop the BPM substantially...which we might attribute to the sync somehow activating...could have been user error on that...but the needle drop to Internal mode was sure odd. Just DL'd 1.6.1 moments ago. Will have time to play tomorrow.

I went back to SSL 2.5 for my gigs for time being (can't have that issue happen again). It happened almost every gig I used SDJ 1.6 at for 3 weeks. No exact time it would happen. Never happened at the same time or same instance. I had my buffers both at 2ms, in the apple settings and SDJ setup.

I will add, that I had to use the new Pioneer SRT at a gig last week and the latency issue did not happen that night. Although, I did manage to make the crossfader completely crap out in one hour (crap fader) barely breaking it in at the beginning of my set. Techs came to replace it on the fly, so I was not playing for about 45min with a mix playing in SDJ 1.6 Internal mode. Could be a possible reason the latency pop issue didn't happen. No idea. Just a quick run down.

I will be back on the SRT again this week, twice probably. I'll report whatever may happen on those nights. *fingers crossed*

Hey guys

I've logged this as a bug for further investigation. It's not clear exactly what may be happening at this stage, but for now I would recommend setting the buffer slider in the Rane Driver Panel to 12ms and then setting the Serato DJ to whichever setting you prefer.

It is important to set (or re-set) the SDJ slider after you have set the Rane driver slider.

If you then get a dropout followed by latency, please use the workaround of re-setting the SDJ buffer slider to remedy the situation.

I'll let you know what we find out in due course.

Cheers
Aaron

Just curious is it not true that the more you increase your rane buffer size the more latency you introduce to the equation


15.27 ms would be the total latency round trip for an sl 4


So wouldn't this defeat the purpose


Basically a scratch dj on dvs would be sacrificing vinyl tightness Just to ease on the drop outs

Computer hardware dependent, this is always the conundrum a scratch DJ will experience. We have found that users with a relatively new and well-specced computer can achieve the following buffer settings without dropouts:

- Just Serato DJ; 1ms SDJ / 3ms driver panel
- Using PnT for SDJ; 1ms SDJ / 5ms driver panel (roughly equivalent to the old SSL 1ms)
- A stressed machine; 1ms SDJ / 8ms driver panel

Nobody should have to go as high as 12ms in the driver panel under normal circumstances. I was recommending that setting here to keep everyone well away from the dropout danger zone.

Feel free to experiment with buffer settings that suit you for tightness and smooth audio - just remember to set the SDJ buffer slider last!

Cheers
Aaron

This issue seems to have been cleared up in the latest update. 6 gigs in and no latency issues. Been getting a weird sound spike though.

Yeah. Still get the sound spike/quick second dropout here and there (multiple times in a show), but the latency issue hasn't hit me again yet ...... (fingers are crossed every night)

I've had the latency issue on 1.6.1, so for me, it's still not gone.

I was playing last night after updating to 1.6.2, 3hrs in I got the dropout and latency issues. This is a major problem that needs fixing ASAP. It reflects badly on us as professional Dj's. I will be sticking with scratch live 2.5 for now. I don't care too much about the sync feature but was really excited about the jump to loop points and the extra cues in serato dj. I am running a brand new MacBook Pro with Mavericks.

Happened to me last night using the least version of SDJ. The only fix is to go back to SL.

Happened to me again last night, latest version everything for a Music Video Show. This time, I was unable to adjust the USB buffer slider in the setup screen, was forced to do the fix in the sixtyfour driver. Also new, the transport controls (Q/W A/S) on the keyboard were unpredictable as well. As a SixtyFour user, I don't have the option of going back to SSL. Please sort this out ASAP.

Any thought that the latency issue might be related to the timecode records. I have a friend who is using brand new ones and says he is having no problems with it. I will be getting some brand new ones this week and seeing if that might be the problem.

Hey christianbiko, The SixtyFour came with 4 new timecode records, so I never considered that. I suppose its possible they're getting worn out. I'm interested to know a ballpark lifespan for the timecode records in hours of usage, assuming 3g, White Labels with light scratching & fast cueing.

If they are being used for say 4 hours a day they would probably be best to replace after 3 months.

I know for sure its not vinyl.. I've seen bad vinyl trip it into Int mode and changing the tempo really slow but never this latency issue. I've had the latency issue happen to me on good PS vinyl and brand new baby blues... To me it seems like (and I'm not 100% sure) the usb drop out and latency occur during an automatic crate save that seems to be very noticeable in Scratch Live since the 2.4 update and 2.5. Example.. When I have the "File" tab open, harddrive open, folder open and searching through files, it resets the whole tab back to the harddrive and I notice a "saved..." fade in and out at the bottom of the screen (this is in Scratch Live). It's a little less noticeable in Serato Dj but you still catch the "saved..." fade in and out at the bottom of the screen and you get the usb drop out and latency. Has anyone else noticed this?

Definitely not the control vinyl. I was using a brand new pair of performance series and brand new sure n447 styli when this happened. I won't let it happen again. SL only for gigs.

Hey guys

This issue almost certainly has nothing to do with control vinyl.

What is happening is that a dropout is occurring (for any number of reasons) and the audio device (your Rane hardware) is disconnecting and then re-connecting to Serato DJ. When this happens, the hardware re-connects with very large latency. This can immediately be remedied by re-setting the buffer slider in the Setup > Audio panel of Serato DJ.

The cause of the dropout can be hard to determine, but is most often from having either the SDJ buffer slider or the Rane driver buffer slider (or both) set too low for your computer and what you are trying to do.

Here's my recommendations from earlier in this thread:



Getting your system running smoothly with appropriate latency settings is the best way to avoid this issue.

Cheers
Aaron

Hi Aaron,
Thanks for info. The issue happened last night and at no point was my CPU meter above 1/3 activity. Also, adjusting the slider in the setup window is no longer an option (assuming this is a current build change). The only slider that can be adjusted is in the SixtyFour driver.

Last night my settings were per your instruction: "- A stressed machine; 1ms SDJ / 8ms driver panel"

Last Saturday when I had an issue, my settings were: "- Just Serato DJ; 1ms SDJ / 3ms driver panel"

I'm wondering about something DJ Sample said above:
"When I have the "File" tab open, harddrive open, folder open and searching through files, it resets the whole tab back to the harddrive and I notice a "saved..." fade in and out at the bottom of the screen (this is in Scratch Live). It's a little less noticeable in Serato Dj but you still catch the "saved..." fade in and out at the bottom of the screen and you get the usb drop out and latency. Has anyone else noticed this? "

Since my latest Mavericks update, the issue seems more frequent. Its happened in 2 of my last 3 gigs. Bottom line, if I need a new computer, I'll do it...if I need to roll back from Mavericks, I'll do it....if I need to return the SixtyFour and get the SixtyTwo so I can run SSL again, I'll do it. What I can't do, is lose my livelihood over a failing product. Please help me figure out this issue ASAP.

Thanks for all the info DJ Amos Myth.

Unfortunately this issue lies somewhere between the OS, the driver, and the application and it is extremely difficult to determine exactly where we might be able to apply a fix (if it is indeed possible for us to do so as it could well be an Apple issue).

We have tried to reproduce this a number of times, but haven't had success yet. We will try running some tests with the Files panel open as you described though. Worth a shot.

If you haven't played more than 10 sessions since the one where you experienced this, could you possibly go to your _Serato_ folder and get me your log file from the session. We keep a rolling list of 10 log files from Serato DJ sessions, and if we can get one with the dropout and re-connect, it should help us understand what is going on.

That goes for anyone on this thread please. Apologies for not asking earlier, but:

If you experience a dropout followed by very large latency, please retrieve the log file from your _Serato_ folder and upload it to this thread

Thanks for your patience guys, we know it sucks when there is a persistent issue like this and we're doing what we can to figure this out for you.

Cheers
Aaron

There's mine from today, hope you find out about this. :)

Here's mine from Friday night. Didn't see anything around 12:30, when it happened.

Thanks guys, we'll take a look.

Just to confirm, you both got a dropout followed by the super large latency (350-500ms)?

Aaron

Yes. I experienced a very short drop out, then the extreme latency from the vinyl. Also new, the "W" and "S" buttons were acting odd, so I had to let the timecode roll in rel mode and trigger my start with the cue points. I tried to adjust the slider in the setup window, but it wouldn't move, so I had to open the driver from the preferences window and adjust the buffer there, which resulted in a very nasty dropout, but fixed the issue for the night.

In other news, I turned on the protect library feature last night, in case the issue was a file backup or tag writing related. No drop outs or latency in a 4 hour show. Now that I think about it, most of my issues have been after the 4hr mark, except the first one...that seemed to happen right after the internal audio recording switched to a new file.

Cool, cheers man.

I can't immediately see any audio dis-connection and re-connection in your log, but there seems to be a big gap in the log between 8:30 and 10:30pm. I'll go over it with the development team to see if they have further ideas.

Yes, confirmed.

I experienced this for the first time on Saturday. I've been using SDJ on both a 61 and 62 for weeks without issue (1ms/5ms). Saturday I played my first set and everything acted normal. I was DJing with another guy, and after we switched over to his computer (which was running SSL), then back to mine, the massive latency issue was there. I've been on SSL ever since. I know running solo SDJ is fine, but now I'm sketched out to use it on a tag set. Log is attached.

Thanks for the log djmacklong, we'll take a look at it.

It sounds like in your situation, the two of you may have had different buffer settings in the Rane driver panel so there was a re-set when you changed over. In any case, not a good result and something we need to solve as soon as we can.

Just so you know for next time, the instant fix is to re-set you buffer setting in SDJ. This will give you another small dropout, but will remove the latency. This is far from ideal, but it is the best workaround possible currently.

Cheers

Thank you.

Come to think of it, I think the other DJ was actually using SSL while I was on SDJ. Thoughts?

This weekend I only had the issue on 1 of 3 gigs...last night in fact. 1ms/7ms, library protected, as many things shut off in the program as possible (auto BPM, beat grids, serato reporting). file attached. happened early this time, about 1 hour into my set. was able to move the slider in setup. both drop outs were pretty quiet. I was spinning HD music videos using turntables and a Rane SixtyFour from 10-2, with an early start. I mix vs. scratch about 50/50 on transitions about every 3 minutes, limited video FX, little bit of looping, cue hits and filter work. my cpu activity was at about 30% all night, SMC Fan Control is my only other application running, with both fans at about 4500RPM and temp at about 170 for smooth video, quality set to high. My content is 95% on an external Firewire 800 2TB drive from G-Technology.

Please let me know if I can answer any additional questions. I think my next step is looking like an OS rollback (to Mountain Lion iirc) from Mavericks.

Thanks DJ Amos Myth

I'll add your log to the bug report. Can you try disabling the fan control app to see if that helps? Also, it would be interesting to see if running your video output on medium will help.

I'm not expecting you to make these changes permanently, but as we can't reproduce this issue ourselves, any info on what can affect it is valuable. Thanks for the reports.

Aaron

I have the Rane sixty four and this has happened to me a few times recently. All of a sudden there is a quick glitch or drop out and the latency goes wacko. Luckily I was DJing with another person and could close out of Serato and re-open which worked fine. However, the problem re-occurred every 30 minutes or so. After speaking with Rane they said to adjust buffer sizes to match and go back to an earlier version of Serato DJ. Both did not work. I'll be using the 57 in the meantime.

sure, tonight is a good spot to test this since the video system isn't HD. I'm guessing that even with video set to medium, the MacBook Pro will hit 200 degrees and get choppy output without SMC cranking up the internal fans.

Yeah, I hear you. If dropping the SMC eliminates the dropouts though, you could look at another cooling solution, like one of these: www.amazon.com.

Let us know how your test goes.

why not just going back to a one Pannel Solution why 2 latency settings ?

Hey Dj Bema

We are working on ways to make latency settings simpler to hopefully alleviate some of these issues.

Cheers

Great thanks

I started tracking this discussion, I was posting on the other thread about this same issue, this seems like the main thread about it.
The big latency issue happened to me this past weekend using SDJ 1.6.3 and a Rane Sixty-Two. My laptop is very high-specced but I'll play around with the buffer sliders and see what happens.

Cool, thanks Joseph.

Be sure to always adjust the SDJ slider last if you have the application open when you move the Rane slider. Let us know how it goes.

Cheers

Latest drop out observations
No latency on return, audio dropped from program (main out & headphones) for about 1/2 second, but I haven't found it in the recording. The attached log shows the drop out at 00:24...as well as a lot of strange looking/seemingly excessive tag writing. No video, no SMC fan control, Only running Serato DJ with just 2 turntables & the SixtyFour. The drop out happened during a mix of two songs, both returned at the same time, beats still matched. I've had this type of drop out randomly in the past with this mixer. Maybe another issue, maybe related? Also curious, the program wants to backup my drive everytime I close down now. Log attached.

this excessive tag writing is what I think is causing the issue.. just my opinion cause I'm not enough of a computer nerd to figure it out... but the drop out for always seems to happen after some pointless auto crate back up

Thanks guys, I'll follow this up.

Aaron

same thing happened to me this past saturday. i moved the turntable and it took sdj like 3 seconds to respond. moving the latency in sdj 1 to the right resolved it for the rest of the night.

i'll try the settings listed above.

late 2011 macbook pro w/2.4 GHz intel core i7, 16gb ram, ssd, osx 10.9.3
rane 62 w/latest firmware
sdj 1.6.3

Thanks Dj Nyce

Were you doing anything with your library at the time? Did you have the Files panel open, or see any kind of auto save or tag writing happening right when you got the dropout that led to the latency increase?

Could you also upload the log file from the session (it's in your _serato_ folder)?

Cheers
Aaron

deck 1 was playing, i loaded a track to deck 2 and was blending the 2nd song in. i go to nudge turntable (deck 1) to beat match and it didn't do anything. 3 seconds later the nudge occurred throwing the beatmatch off.

the files panel was not open nor any tabs. just 2 decks and the browser in extended horizontal mode.

also i was playing for about 2 hours before this occurred. i didn't know about the bug so i thought it was a random glitch. when it happened a 2nd time i know something wasn't right and immediately went into internal mode until i was able to adjust the latency.

Thanks for the info man. Yes, the one real commonality so far appears to be that this issue occurs after 30 mins - 2 hours of play. The only thing we can recommend at this stage is higher buffer settings to try and avoid the dropout.

Cheers

HI FOKLS!

I was always a big fan of RANE GEAR since SERATO DJ.


I own a 56,57; and a RANE 62

I runnig exact the same problem with my RANE 62 LIKE SO MANY PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM.

LAST NIGHT, AFTER I HAD ALREADY SO MANY TROUBLED EVENINGS BECAUSE OF THE LATENCY PROBLEM:

RANE ! THAT WAS THE LAST TIME ! I

TODAY I DID A ORDER ON THE SERATO PIONEER MIXER!

LAST NIGHT AFTER 50 Minutes the tt latency started...

AND IT KILLED THE WHOLE PARTY.

I felt such a shame and was so embarassed!!!!!!!!!!!

ARE YOU AWARE, OF WHAT DAMAGE THIS CAN CAUSE TO A DJs REPUTATION ???



The promoter told me not to came back and blamed it on me and my Skills, BECAUSE HE DID NOT BELIVING ME, WHEN I TOLD HIM THIS WAS CAUSED BY MY 2200 EURO ; 2 CHANNEL RANE MIXER.


He said: DO YOU REALLY THINK RANE PRODUCTS WOULD BE SO EXPENSIVE, IF THE PRODUCT QUALITY WAS REALLY THAT BAD, AS IT IS BY now?? He continued and said:

SO DONT LIE TO ME AND DONT BLAME THIS ON YOUR MIXER, IF U DONT HAVE SKILLS TO ROCK A CROWD, PLEASE DO NOT COME AGAIN!

THANK YOU RANE!
I PAID 2200 Euros. THIS IS A JOKE!

IM SELLING MY RANE 62! I am from GERMANY, SO IF ANYONE INTERESTED , PLEASE SEND ME A MESSAGE!

Hate to break the news, but this is a software issue with Serato DJ. It happens with different hardware, so blaming this on the Rane 62 is dumb.

Hey orangeotto and L2daGee

To be very clear, this is an issue whereby the hardware driver dis-connects from the (Apple) OS and then re-connects at a very high latency. It is fundamentally an Apple issue, but Rane believe they may be able to create a fix in the driver itself, which we are all hoping will be done for a coming release.

In the meantime, the best workarounds are:

- Keep your Rane and Serato DJ buffer sliders at a 'safe' level to avoid getting a dropout. 12ms Rane / 2ms SeratoDJ should be fine for almost all users.

- If you do experience the large latency, simply move the Serato DJ buffer slider away and back , THEN click 'Apply' to bring the latency down again. This will result in a small dropout, but you will be able to continue rocking the party.

Cheers
Aaron

saturday that happened after 2 1/2 hours playtime..
no files folder used or tag-writing.. just letting the song play when the dropout appeared
did not know about the buffer-slider solution.. so i finished the gig by using internal mode and the sp1...

stuff used..
pioneer djm800
discer and pioneer sp1 connected via hub
latency was at 20ms..
Macbook Pro 2014
osx 10.9.3
i7 2,3 GHz
16 GB DDR3
1 TB SSD
sdj 1.6.1

How could this be an "Apple" issue if it doesn't EVER happen in ScratchLIVE? Same hardware. Different software. Same computer & same OS. Lol! ScratchLIVE is fine with a 62. But SeratoDJ is not? The only reasons SRT, controllers, etc can't be tested back and forth to see is because they are not SSL compatible. But if they were, I bet they would be fine on SSL too. It's definitely a software issue with SeratoDJ.

Not the mixer's fault. Just a software issue that needs an immediate fix!

It's quite simple, I'm afraid. The drivers for Rane hardware in Scratch Live are different to those used in Serato DJ. In Serato DJ, Rane hardware (and the DJM-900 SRT) use Core Audio drivers that require a different kind of co-operation with Mac OS.

Drivers are the responsibility of the hardware manufacturer, but are dependent on the OS doing its job the way it is supposed to. In this case, there appears to be an issue with the behaviour of the OS that Rane believe they can workaround. This will require new drivers to be built and tested.

In short, this is an issue that is evident in Serato DJ, but not caused by it. The issue lies in between the driver and the OS and there is nothing we can do with the software to fix it. We are however working closely with our hardware partners to help resolve this as fast as possible.

Wow. Ok. I didn't realize the drivers for the same piece of hardware are not the same for the different software. Was this a change that needed to happen for SeratoDJ DVS? Too bad you can't take the old SSL driver and migrate it. Lol!

@Aaron E

I don't think it's effects just the Rane Mixers. I had the same issue on my SL3 box. Unfortunately, I don't remember the date for me to pull logs for you guys.

Good question... Without going into too much detail, it didn't strictly need to happen, but there are benefits from the change. Lower driver latency and being able to use the hardware with other software at the same time (Ableton for example) are the two main ones. The added development streamlining of bringing the configuration into line with how everything works in Serato DJ (the hardware manufacturer creates their own driver), shouldn't be overlooked, either.

The irony is that we used to make the driver ourselves for Scratch Live so would have been able to fix an issue like this in-house, but on balance, the new system is more robust - the old way caused plenty of issues, I can assure you :P

@victor_M - You are correct, this issue potentially affects all devices that use Core Audio drivers, which includes all Rane SL interfaces.

Wow! Thanks for the heads up, even if it was brief. That's good to know. I know you probably can't say for sure right now, but are you getting me excited for a possible new version of Bridge/Ableton in SeratoDJ?

Hello Aron E, it is possible that new hardware arrives for Serato '. I want to buy a 62 but I would then find a new battle for Serato DJ mixer ba. I want to wait to replace my Sl1 want that many problems are solved, then invest in a 62 or new hardware. I read besides these problems also crash with 62 new mac. what do you say to expect?

Sorry I hate to break the news: I was a little Rane Fan boy just like you!

When I mentioned the Rane Product Quality, I was talking about the hardware and the software: Rane Software drivers which they are promoting on the rane dj site!

<<<<Rane’s ultra low latency, multi-client ASIO and Core Audio drivers set the standard for USB streaming devices, and work with all the top DJ software applications.>>>



Yesterday I gave the pioneer djm 900 a run in the club and the mixer performed flawless!

I purchased the mixer + a ddjsp1 for 2059 Euros!

For my 2 channel rane mixer I had to pay 2200 Euro!

Yesterday I gave the pioneer djm 900 a run in the club and the mixer performed flawless!


PLUS: I had 4 Decks, 8 soft control pads for each deck and full controll for the serato software effects.

Plus: The whole crossfader curve is adjustable, so Ihave really sharp cuts now!
The Rane 62 has only a crossfader curve contour which is adjustable!

I am happy!

What does it mean that the pioneer has a fully adjustable curve? the pioneer can only adjust the crossfader, line faders 62 also

The Rane 62 is a 2 Channel Mixer designed for scratch DJ's, thats why I bought a 56;57 and the 62!

Increasing the buffer size and having less record controll should def. not be a workaround for people, who paid 2200 Euros for a 2 Channel Scratch Mixer.

May be this is the reason why even a Serato Icon Artist like DJ Premier still usses his Rane 57 and Scratch Live!

ok now I've seen the picture pioneer, can also regulate it all. then you say that the Pioneer is better than the frogs, removing the problems of driver 62.

The Rane mixers just have adjustable settings for the cf contour. The curve is not fully adjustable, thats why I always had to put an innofader in my Rane Mixers.

The DJM 900 has a adjustable cf curve.

I now do not own the 62, but I really like it, because I do not use more than 2 channels, from frontal images are the three potentiometers for adjusting the curve, what changes from 900 pioneer in the regulation? excuse the stupid question maybe.

What I was trying to say: The pioneer cf has a full linear curve, the Rane62 dose,t.


By the way: Oh and now I can perform with the buffer size set at 1 ms, without getting distortions and dropouts!

to dj zaza:

Sorry, I guess my english is may be not good enough to explain...

OK : The difference is the cut in!

On the Rane CF Curve is not fully linear, that means it fades a little bit, which makes the cut not as sharp like a fully linear curve.


I never wanted a 4 Channel Mixer, because I am a hip hop DJ.....thats why always used Rane Mixers...

Many people using a Rane Mixer but they change the Rane CF with an Innofader.


Got to youtube and watch a dj shortee video.. She uses a Rane 57 with an innofader.
An org. Rane Replacement CF is 79 Euros an Innofader is 150 Euros but it gives you more controll!

ok this is the difference. I want to understand how to invest my money, I want a mixer and a Sl1 frogs, but they are stuck to the problems we have with Serato DJ. I will certainly use SSL, but I also fear the release of new products, and that's why I asked Aron if there will be new mixer. are always € 2,000 to pull out I would not want to find myself a month off after the 62 frogs Serato DJ. ok so better Innofader. but then you would lose the warranty?

The main reeason why I moved from rane right know is the performance of the Rane Gear:

latency problems,
high cpu usage,
the buffer "workaround" which make this mixer not useable for hip hop djs
and that soft-thru sometimes dont works, that means, that one channel all over sudden is missing, until you reboot the mixer and or the software, which is a absolute no go, when the dance floor is packed full of people...

To dj sazza: Where you from? I

l am from germany.

Havent sold my Rane 62 yet, so If you are interested in buying...

not inspire me a lot to buy the 62 if you tell me that all these problems. I'm in Switzerland if you do not hurry to sell I can even think about it, but now I have other expenses to deal with even more in the us can come to an agreement, although I prefer to buy new for the warranty. I do not understand the problems of latency, and in that sense it used too much cpu

send me an email to zazadj@gmail.com with the price. quati old is the mixer

if it is a good price maybe in the future I can buy. but I prefer to wait for news from Serato for any new products.

Hey guys

Sorry to be the cop in the room, but you can't use our forums to buy and sell things, please take your discussion offline.

@dj zaza - I don't have any info for you, I'm afraid.

Aron excuse, it was not an argument for buying and selling, it was just to figure out whether it makes sense to buy the 62 or wait for a new battle mixer for Serato exclusive DJ. or in fact entered my email to finish the discussion with orangeotto in private.

You are right Aron! Sorry!

The Pioneer 900 has a much higher latency than any Rane SL hardware!

Hey Aaron,

is this issue limited to OSX Mavericks?

How do you know?

Right know I got both mixers right in front of me!.

With the rane 62 it's not even possible to set the buffer(both Serato & rane) to 1 ms without having distortion and drop outs!

With the pioneer i can run 4 decks at one time with the usb buffer set at 1 ms, use software fx without even having any orange or red usb drop out warnings!

1 ms latency : Pioneer 4 Decks + Software Fx

So if Rane is selling a two channel scratch mixer for 2200 Euro
and telling us to set the usb buffer at 12 ms just to run 2 Decks........

Please! Thats a joke!

I got a question to Serato:

Why is your own serato icon Artist DJ Premier still a Rane 57 and SL ?

Why is he not useing a 61 or a 62 with Serato DJ or SL ?



Beacause withe usb slider set at 12 ms its almost not possible to scratch and juggle!

orangeotto,

You do know there are two buffer sliders when using SDJ/SSL with a Rane mixer ya?

I'm guessing there is either an option similar to this with that Pioneer mixer or the buffer for the mixer is set in a specific spot. Serato can answer that question. I don't have the 900 here to test.

What I'm getting at is even though the buffer may be at 1 in SDJ there is another buffer for the mixer that could be set to 30. Because of that you may not be experiencing audible dropouts. This doesn't mean that the 900 can run at a lower buffer setting than the 62.

You could probably do the same thing with the Rane mixer ie set the buffer for the Rane mixer higher which would allow you to set the buffer in SDJ lower. This, of course, wouldn't make the latency any better as the overall latency is determined by any hardware requiring a buffer.

Can you be more specific with this? When is the audio cutting out?

Hello Zach S, it seemed strange that the 62 had less latency performance compared to the 900. Too want a 62 but are hampered by the fact that they can release new hardware, and then find myself forced to change the mixer to have something created for Serato DJ.

Try it out for yourself.

One of my original questions as well. Any idea?

Happened last night after just 20 minutes. Wasn't running SMC Fan Control at the time, so we can rule that out. The event shows up in the attached log. Had some other random weirdness with drop outs and sound spikes later in the night too, but only one instance with the latency issue.

Sorry guys, this is inconclusive at this point. It is looking mostly related to Mavericks, but this could simply be because the vast majority of our users are running 10.9.x.

Thanks for the log, DJ Amos Myth, I'll get it looked at.

Aaron

Already did! So, how do you know?

Thats exactly, whtat my thought were and what forced me to buy the pioneer!

On Saturday I played in a bunker from 2nd. Worldwar.
Place was packed full of people, heavy bass, smoke, 200 People on the floor and the mixer performed flawless.

It was so realxed like back in the days of SL where I could just focus on my mix and didnt have to worry about technical problems...

Dont get me wrong! I always loved rane and I would like to keep my 62, But right know I cant work with my Rane 62 because its useless..

As an owner of a SixtyTwo, you have the choice of using Scratch Live or Serato DJ. If you are having the latency issue described in this help thread using Serato DJ, you can download (at no cost) and use Serato Scratch Live in your performances.

I am not a rich person. It was no easy task for me spending another 2000 Euros for a mixer.

But even SL didnt performed on the high stabil Level that I was used to.

I am spinnig 3,4 times a weak at different locations and since going back to sl and keeping my 62 was no option for that anymore I had to make this decission.

Trust me, I really love Rane, but right know for the moment, I just cant work with it anymore!

Ok , I can still use my Rane 57 and SL, but 9 month ago I spent 2200 Euro for my Rane 62 and I am really afraid that prices are dropping and I just blew 2200 Bucks in the wind...

Paying 1699 Euro for my Rane 57 was ok,
beacause with SL, the Mixer was performing on the high quality level of Rane Gear that I was used to for the last 5 years...

Hey people: I dont want to bash rane gear,
but since there was no statement in this thread when those issuses will 100% be resolved, I felt left alone by Rane and it made so scared that I may be made a wrong decission to invest my money in the 62.

If Rane would have said, withe next update all the issuses will be resolved, I would have never moved away from Rane.

The 900 DJM has only one slider for the usb buffer.

What is the next question gonna be?

Have you analyzed your libary... lol

I got a question to Rane:

DJ Premier is an Serato Icon right?

I guess he's getting stuff like a Rane 62 for free , right?

Why is Primo saying on your own Serato Site: I am using a Rane 57 and Scratch Live?

I mean If he wants to, he would get a 62 for free.....

The current issues are not with Rane hardware. Its with Serato's software.
If you have updated to the latest firmware found here --> dj.rane.com you will be able to use Scratch Live without any backwards compatibility issues.

I know its not the rane hardware!

<<<<Rane’s ultra low latency, multi-client ASIO and Core Audio drivers set the standard for USB streaming devices, and work with all the top DJ software applications.>>>


Why is Primo not using a 62 and SL?

Why is he using a 57 and SL ?

He's getting a 62 for free which he could use with sl but he sticks with his 57 and SL... .

Why is Chris Karns, DJ Jazzy Jeff, Big Wizz, all the Beat Junkies, Eskei, and pretty much all the rest of the top dogs now using a 62?

Anyone who isn't using a 62 is someone who is simply too comfortable using what they have been using for years now and they either don't have the patience to get into something better or they don't have the time.
The 62 is hands down a better mixer than the 57.

Havent sold my 62 yet. Maybe I gonna use it with traktor....

Can I ask a question please, because your asking me silly questions like:
You do know there are two buffer sliders when using SDJ/SSL with a Rane mixer ya?

My question to Rane please: How many weeks will its take, till all those problems gonna be fixed?

Than why are you throwing Rane under the bus here?
Serato is a different company that makes the software.
The issue is within the software.

Are the problems going to be resolved with the next serato update?

That is a question for Serato. We here at Rane do none of the software.

Its a problem with the hardware driver: <<<<Rane’s ultra low latency, multi-client ASIO and Core Audio drivers set the standard for USB streaming devices, and work with all the top DJ software applications.>>>

Its not caused by the serato dj software!

Its caused by the drivers!

Ranes ultra low latency drivers..

Thats why the pioneer djm performed flawles... .they got there own drivers for the software

No its not.
Update to the latest Rane driver and use Scratch Live.
There is nothing wrong with how it works when using Scratch Live.
The issue is within the Serato DJ software.

I will keep my 57 and SL.

Why do I had pay 2200 Euros for 62?

look this a serato statement!

To be very clear, this is an issue whereby the hardware driver dis-connects from the (Apple) OS and then re-connects at a very high latency. It is fundamentally an Apple issue, but Rane believe they may be able to create a fix in the driver itself, which we are all hoping will be done for a coming release.

Ok. So I can sell my 62 right?

What do I need a 62 for , if it only runs with software which will not be updated anymore?

That was reason I had to upgrade from a 57 to a 62... now ya tellin people to downgrade....

When will all those issuses going to be fixed?

This issue will get sorted. You can use Scratch Live in the meantime.

Or sell your 62 and be done with it.

Rane! Great!

Done with it!

I ll put my 62 on ebay tomorrow!

Thank you very much!

So Rane is telling people to sell their rane equipment...

That's Ranes customer service in 2014...

i never checked the pioneer service before but it cant that bad, that they will tell their customers to sell their gear..

I'll put it on ebay tomorrow and post a warning in the description: Warning, will not work with current serato software....

You are obviously not happy with the temporary workarounds that have been provided.
Rest assured this issue will be worked out. If this doesn't work for you than, yes, sell your mixer. There is nothing else support can do for you at this point.

ok. thanks!

orangeotto, I can understand your disappointment, but certainly if there are any problems will be solved. I have my SL1 for years now and it works even on my macbook retina early 2013. As I said in previous posts, look to buy a new mixer for Serato, but sell it because it does not work with Serato DJ, does not mean that the mixer quality is not an alternative as he said Zac S you can use SSL. Use traktor with the Z2 at times, but when I'm on SSL is another thing. I do not think a company like Serato will please say to those who use the software to sell a mixer. But how they solved many problems will solve this as well. I've never had problems with both the library, which with the sound card, even with the VCI 400 I have no problems and I'm sorry to hear that others are plagued by problems. As I wrote in another thread technology advances and it is hard to keep up with him, firmware and software problems can be solved, but if they continue to come up with processors and operating systems every 6 or 12 months are cool.

This issue can potentially affect any device that uses Apple Core Audio as the connection method. Yes, we have had more reports of this issue from people using Rane hardware, but this is no doubt because of the significantly larger number of users involved.

This is an Apple issue that has been raised directly with them. Rane, to their credit, are trying to create a fix at their end. This is a frustrating issue for everyone involved.

I would also like to point out that we have only received ~25 reports of this issue to date and have been unable to reproduce it in the office. We are however taking it very seriously.

Orly... there have been also issues with Pioneer mixers. Search their forums.

The grass always greener on the other side.

About the latency question:
Measure the latency of your Pioneer 900 and you will be surprised.

I've had the issue several times on my Rane Sixty-Two and SDJ 1.6.3.

I will be trying to reproduce the problem tomorrow.

Is there a program I should be running (ex. Activity Monitor), or a file I should upload, if and when the issue occurs?

I want to help squash this bug.

Happen to me Friday night, dropout of music/music jump and the lag with turntable. Fix to move the usb buffer in serato dj setup cover up using the mic. SL4 box

patience, you will solve the latency problems and other errors that are there. developers do not need to hurry. we do not need a new version that solves one problem and leave others. let them work. except for those with a mixer 64 other people have the alternative, it's called Serato Scratch Live.

I'm convinced this is a Mavericks issue. Somebody prove me wrong. Anyone NOT using Mavericks experience this issue? Stand up.

Joseph, if you can post your logs from the night it happens, by attaching the file to a post in this thread, that could be helpful. Thank you.

Amos
(aka, sucker on the SixtyFour)

using my SL1 to run SSL on the SixtyFour just seems horribly wrong...

Thanks Joseph

At this stage there is nothing in particular you can do except upload your log files from any sessions where you experience the issue.

Yes, it would be good if anyone in this thread experiencing this issue on an OS older than Mavericks could let us know. We have had some reports of the issue on an older OS, but can't be certain they are accurate. The more information we have on everyone's system profiles, the better.

While we are gathering information, could everyone please let me know if you are using an external HD and if so, how you have it connected?

Cheers
Aaron

Here's some background on what I'm running:

Mid-2012 MacBook Pro, Intel i7 quad-core 2.6 GHz, 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 RAM, two internal hard drives (one SSD with OS and software, one HDD with music and Serato crates), OS X Mavericks 10.9.4.

Serato DJ 1.6.3, with Pitch n Time activated, USB buffer set to 2.

Rane Sixty-Two, firmware version 2.21, driver buffer set to 8 ms.

The steps:

1. Open SDJ (mixer not connected yet) and let crates and iTunes library load (about 40,000 tracks).
2. Turn on mixer.
3. Plug in mixer to USB.
4. Play some tracks.

There are frequent CPU warning and dropout lights, but no audible dropouts.
A few tracks in, and playback and performance is normal so far.

For this first test, I mixed for about 30 minutes with no problems, then I stepped away for about 20 minutes. When I came back, and loaded another track, the latency was there.

I'll upload the log file for this test, titled "latency1".

Next I'll try to recreate the problem during the mix.

One strange thing I noticed in the log file is a lot of tag writing to the same file.
Would something like beatgrid editing cause this amount of tag writing?

Running mostly HD Music Video content for my main show (90% of the time), so I'm using an External Firewire 800, wall powered 2TB G-drive.

www.newegg.com

That reminds me, I should mention I only play audio. Almost all MP3s, some AACs, but in this test I'm only using MP3s.

Been mixing for about an hour, no problems.
I'm gonna try leaving a long MP3 playing for about 15 minutes without touching anything, and see if the problem comes back during that time. The small audio dropout will be the clue that it's back.

Thanks for the info guys (and log file Joseph). I'll add it into the mix.

Cheers

No problem.

Funny thing is, the first time around, when I got the latency to happen, I had Wi-Fi off and no other programs running. Now, I have Wi-Fi and Chrome running, and still haven't gotten the latency to come back. Weird.

So I couldn't get it to happen again. Will try again tomorrow.

Some ideas I had...

- Is this an issue with external drives? Technically my music drive is external, even though it's inside my laptop. It replaces the SuperDrive and does show up as a second drive in the system. So is anyone having this problem with just a single internal drive?

- Is this problem only happening to people with Mavericks? If so, there's one feature in Mavericks that could be the culprit: App Nap. I've never disabled App Nap on any Serato app before, but basically it's a Mavericks feature that "conserves valuable battery life by slowing the app down." (more info here - www.apple.com) So I'm gonna disable App Nap for Serato DJ and see if that keeps the latency from happening.

- Even on the second test run, where I did not get a latency issue, I still notice in the session log that there is a lot of tag writing on certain tracks. It doesn't happen to all tracks loaded or played, and it happen whether I make changes to a track or not (cue points, beatgrid, etc). It seems to be random, and maybe it's possible that SDJ writes a tag to a certain file, and that causes the problem.

Still a very weird, sporadic, and perplexing problem. Hope someone else can help shed some more light onto it.

Thanks Joseph, good points.

For those of you getting this all the time, could you please try two things (individually, so as to know which helps):

1. Disable App Nap for Serato applications. You can do this by right-clicking the application in Finder > Get Info > check 'Prevent App Nap'

If this doesn't help, then try

2. De-select 'Put hard disks to sleep when possible' in System Preferences > Energy Saver. Also set the Computer Sleep slider to 'Never' for Power Adaptor.

Thanks guys, let me know how you go.

Aaron

2. De-select 'Put hard disks to sleep when possible' in System Preferences > Energy Saver. Also set the Computer Sleep slider to 'Never' for Power Adaptor.


This has been part of my standard setup for years. Disabling app nap.

Thanks,
Amos

Cool man, good to hear :)

Let us know how it goes with App Nap disabled... You seem to be able to reproduce this issue the most frequently so I'm going to be well interested to hear your result.

Cheers
Aaron

Did it again and with this app nap disable, it is not this. It is something else.

Little Fan bi$% boy!

Throw some facts in this discussion !

Dont do this asking counter question thing... thats lame!

(By the way I did!)

orangeotto, can you please take your chat somewhere else.

I'm using this thread as the main place to gather information about a troublesome issue that is affecting some users. Your chit chat is getting in the way. Please PM nik39 if you want to discuss latency on various mixers with him, or alternatively, start your own discussion in the general area.

Thanks
Aaron

I had the problem documented here pop up on me last night during a gig. But it was immediately followed by another problem.
I had an audio dropout, followed by about a one second delay in turntable latency, as detailed in the above thread.
I switched to a song on my ipod while I restarted Serato DJ. Upon restart - it said 'No Compatible Mixer detected'.
After my stomach dropped, I opened Scratch Live - which worked thank god, mixer was detected.
Now when I am home to recreate the problem - I am unable to. The latency issue is not there.
However a new problem is there - one deck starts/stops every second, making it unusable. The red buffer bar is dropping along with it. It plays a second or two of audio, drops out entirely for a second, then plays another. You can see the waveform physically stopping. If i try to scratch or touch the platter, it will often switch to internal mode.

This only happens on one deck. I tried switching cartridges and inputs with no luck.
Initially when the problem started, i was peaking around in my System Preferences at the Rane 62 settings, buffer was at 12ms, everything looked ok. But suddenly - i am getting a 'Sixty Two is not connected' in the preferences panel now when i open it. Things seem to be getting worse - what is going on, seems strange...?

Apologies if these problems are unrelated and i should start a new thread. But the timing felt like they were connected.

Rane 62 latest firmware
Serato Scratch Live 2.5
Serato DJ 1.6.3
Macbook 2011-ish running Mavericks
2x Technics 1200's recently serviced

upon computer restart - the rane 62 panel in system preferences is working again.
I have also tried different USB ports.

I sent my mixer back to Rane today to have another issue looked at, so I'm out of the testing game for a bit. Saturday night I documented 11 audio spikes from the device by hitting save on the recording every time it happened. The spikes don't show up on the recording waveform, but can be heard on booth and master outputs as approximately 300ms full volume events. Although I also had one audio drop out as well, no latency issue on this round. Shaun at Rane fielded the call and has the details. The sound spike issue has been going on at random times for a few weeks.

attached is the Log File from sound spike issues...whoa. Not sure if its related, but damn, that's a ton tag writing for an internal recording. interesting that my first encounter with the latency issue seemed to coincide with the recording autosaving to start a new recording file.

Thanks for the info Amos Myth - I can't see your log file anywhere though.

@soulslinga - yes, it would be best to open a new help request for your issue if it persists beyond your re-start.

Cheers
Aaron

log file...take 2

Cheers, got it.

For the Rane bashers .... This has happened to me not only on Rane equipment but also Pioneer equipment multiple times as well.

This has been happening to me lately as well. Very disappointing since I invested in a Rane 64 thinking it was the future. Now I have to go back to my 57 unless I want to risk this happening during a show, $2K down the drain. Here's my log file, would love to get an answer as to why this is happening and if it can be fixed. My Serato DJ buffer is set to 2ms, Mac Pro 2.7Ghz core i7, 8GB mem, OSX10.9.4.

You haven't been able to reproduce it in the office? I can come down there and reproduce it for you. It happens EVERY time I use serato Dj. I have a brand new 15 inch MacBook Pro retina with all the upgrades. $3499 not to mention when it's running without latency issues I still get random clicks and pops like the sound you would get from a dusty record. And these audio artifacts happen every minute or so. I've downloaded every version as it's come out then deleted it shortly after and continued to use SSL. What I don't understand is how this was even released with this problem. Like I said I have the most expensive newest Mac available. I honestly have no real reason to switch to SDJ from SSL at this point since SDJ doesn't really have anything I need in order to do my job. But it would be nice to be able to stay up to date with the newest software. I played out with it once at Q Nightclub and il tell you this... Having the audio drop them slam back in on a Funktion One sound system in front of 1200+ people was embarrassing to say the least.

Thanks for the log DJ GOODFOOT, I've added it to the report.



Annoyingly this is correct. Once or twice, Serato staff have reported this while playing out, but we don't seem to be able to force it to happen. We are still trying though and are determined to find a resolution for this as fast as we can.

Aaron

Thanks Aaron.....I'm aware Serato doesn't set expectations in regards to updates, but it would make many of us happy if a update was in the near future to at least fix this issue and other show stopping niggles that exist to date in SDJ.

In order to gain the trust and commitment from your Scratch Live customer base to jump over to Serato DJ permanently, issues of this sort must be expedited and on Serato's hotlist. I'm just hoping that the mere silence of addressing these issues (updates) do not coincide with the release of another controller..cough cough The "NV". :)

I foresee another announcement from Serato in the near future stating that they will be extending the support for Scratch Live past 2015 because of major show stoppers such as this issue.

Hey thorissr



I 100% agree :)

I can also assure you that exactly this sentiment is getting a lot of attention in the office. There are updates not too far away and we are doing everything we can to make each update more stable than the last.

Cheers
Aaron

I couldn't have said it better myself! +100



good to hear! +1!

Have had the same issue with my MBP 2013 i7 rane 62 mixer using 1200s every time i play out.
drop outs then massive latency on one deck until i use the work around adjusting buffer.
Back on SL and no issues and back to stress free DJing
gonna leave sdj alone for a whils.

Upon the advice of rane technical support, i did a full re-analyze of my entire library (by holding ctrl and clicking 'analyze'. I have about 28,000 files and it took about a day.
After removing ALL the broken or damaged tracks (indicated by the lightning bolts), I am no longer having the latency problem, or the other odd problems I was experiencing. Did a gig saturday without issue. Thought this might help someone.

Nice to hear Soulslinga....May I ask what version of SDJ are you running? 1.6, 6.2, 6.3

Thanks

Thanks soulslinga

Yes, it's always a good idea to analyze your files as you bring them in, and if you haven't done this, run a full analysis periodically. Corrupt files can easily cause dropouts, and if the dropout is big enough (or of a certain type), you may experience this issue.

I highly recommend everyone analyze their libraries and remove any corrupt files to see if that can help avoid dropouts.

Aaron

Any chance Sixty-Four users could use it with Scratch Live in the near term? Would switching back to an earlier version help?

No and no, I'm afraid. The Sixty-Four will not be compatible with Scratch Live and this issue affects all Serato DJ 1.6 versions.

Aaron

What about reverting back to 1.5.2? I checked the Sixty-Four manual and it makes reference to 1.5 as the software. I found this in the archives and am wondering if reverting could be the way to go until this gets sorted? serato.com

I've had this dropout problem with my SL2 for sometime as well. But I noticed an interesting thing yesterday, since I had a dropout sometime at around 3h into the set. It made me think that during the last few months I actually haven't seen any such dropouts and the reason might be that yesterday I forgot to reset the buffer (move the buffer slider and apply) in SDJ before starting to play.

This was my routine everytime before starting - kind of pre-applying the solution in hope of the dropout not happening later in the set.

Maybe some of you could try it and see if it makes any difference?

Won't hurt to try :) I've been patiently waiting for a fix to this issue as it just happened gain aabout 30 minutes ago while practicing....very annoying to say the least. It happens when using my TTs with the SL2 and also when I use my DDJ SZ with TTS via DVS.

I'm slated to put some more time in practicing and will report back my findings afterwards. BTW what do you have your buffer set at? Mine is set at 1ms on my SZ and 2ms on my SL2 and it happens even if I increased my buffer. The only fix is to move the buffer setting and click apply. Of course with the pre and post drop out sounds :(

Thanks

Rane hardware (SL2) at 8ms and SDJ 1.6.3 buffer at 5ms. MacBook Air 2012-mid.

I analyze everything as it comes in before I gig out (including re-analyzing on some updated releases). No corrupt files in my drive. Play mostly mp4 with some mp3. I analyze with mixed-in-key first (latest release) then I drop into SDJ and analyze there last before tag sorting. I also rescan my ID3 tags after tag sorting before I pack up for my show. That way I can get rid of all moved and removed tracks that show up orange.

If I ever get a corrupted track at the end of all that: I remove it, fix the conversion/corruption, then do that whole process above for bringing it back into SDJ.

I actually do all my library work in SDJ even if I know I'm playing with SSL that night. I like the way the library loads and handles in SDJ (I just wish the 'color' sorting was the same as SSL, don't like the color sort arrangement of SDJ).

This is not what is causing my problem

Good point. Sorry, my oversight, yes, you can use Serato DJ 1.5.2 with the Sixty Four to see if that helps.

That would be good information for us actually. Please let me know how it goes.

Aaron

Thanks for the info PopRoXXX, good to know.



Definitely can't hurt. Can everyone please try this and report back. It would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Aaron

Same thing just happened to me tonight. I have just now adjusted the sliders, and still have 2.5 installed if needed. Had to restart my computer - was not pretty at all.

MBP Early 2014
2.6 quad core i7
16 gb ram
512 SSD
Rane 61
Serato DJ 1.6.3

Sorry to hear that spofftastic...hang in there man!!! Hopefully a resolution is near.

Pretty much a regular thing now, at least once a night. Thanks for the tip on moving the sliders, that seems to do the trick without having to restart the program.

Thanks for the log spofftastic. You shouldn't need to re-start, moving the sliders away and back, then clicking 'Apply' should bring the latency back down.

And thanks for the info DJ GOODFOOT.

**For those of you experiencing this regularly, could you please try Marqs advice and re-set the Serato DJ buffer before starting to play to see if that helps.**

I can't think of a reason why it would help, but it would be a much softer workaround for everyone.

Cheers
Aaron

Thanks for the reply - Was unaware of this issue until last night - so when I got home from my gig I was going to post. At the time I did not know what was happening. Switched to iPods for a moment. Sweating bullets when it dropped as I just bought a new Rane 62 mixer and 15" MBP Retina. I always want to check the forums first before I start bitchin! Low and behold - appears many are having the same issues.

I've been having good results (so far) by resetting the buffer during sound check before every gig.

Does good means it doesn't happen? Or just doesn't happen as much - Thanks!

good = no instances of the latency issue...even 1 is 2 too many

Thank you! I'll try this and update after my gig this weekend. I appreciate your time.

Hey all,

In attempt to resolve this issue we have added some extra logging data to Serato DJ in the public beta available here: serato.com

If you are having this issue, please help us by trying to reproduce the issue with the beta build - grabbing the appropriate log file from within your _Serato_ folder > Logs, then create a report in the beta area and upload the log file.

This is going to help us so much in trying to track down the cause of this issue!

Thanks :)

no latency issue with my current settings and process yet, but still getting drop outs when the recording switches over to the next file. additionally, the recordings don't link up smoothly in Audacity any longer, when I assemble them for review. You can hear the issues about every 110min in the recording at this link: djmoss.podomatic.com


log attached. Using 7ms in preferences, 5ms in Serato DJ setup and resetting Serato DJ buffer before the gig. Would like to participate in the beta, but the time isn't there at the moment.

Thanks for the update DJ Amos Myth.

When you say...



...do you mean that you haven't experienced this issue since you started moving and applying the SDJ buffer slider at the beginning of your session?

Thanks
Aaron

Hi Aaron. I'm outside of the normal time frame of experiencing this issue...hesitant to call it solved, since it's been intermittent and unpredictable, but the issue seems to have subsided for now. Feeling very positive, but still watchful.

is this only happening on Maverick OS systems or is this happening on PCs too?

It is definitely limited to Mac OS X, and highly likely specific to 10.9.x Mavericks. This issue has never been reported on a Windows setup.

Aaron

Has anyone tried to revert back to Mountain Lion, with success in eliminating these occurrences. This will at least allow the 64 users to and Pioneer users to use their equipment with out fear of shutting down mid gig. Does anyone have any thoughts to Yosemite being a fix for this or making it more difficult to fix.

I'm sure reverting to Mountain Lion will fix this but know this is not an issue that causes SDJ to quit or requires the user to restart the program. Once the latency occurs you simply need to adjust the USB audio buffer in Setup.

Let me start off by saying I really do appreciate all the hard work the people from Rane and Serato have been doing to address this issue. To me it really shows the amount of trust and care you have for your customers. If this was any other company I really doubt we would have this much support interaction and time spent to attempt to fix this problem.

I do understand that adjusting your audio buffer is a temporary fix to this issue when it happens. However, doesn't this cause a pop in the sound and/or temporary loss of sound? To me and to most places I play that's unacceptable in a LIVE performance or gig (I'm sure that has been pointed out). With that being said, wouldn't reverting back to Mountain Lion be a better temporary fix for the people that have no choice but to use SDJ. I'm aware this is probably easier to do for some people than most so my other alternative to avoid having to adjust your USB buffer mid set would be to just carry a crate of records with you and play a track off vinyl and do a reset. Fortunately I'm able to still use SSL with my 62 so I'm not affect in the LIVE situation as some people are. I'm just trying to find better options for those who don't want to adjust their buffer mid set.

Although downgrading the OS would create a better experience when performing suggesting someone do that is often looked at as a huge headache.
If its not for you then, yes, do it! I'm still running 10.7 on my machine.

I'm not sure what happened, but since my last posting 3 weeks ago regarding this issue I haven't had not one single issue with latency rocking my 62/TT on 1.61. Very odd indeed, since I'm running it on Mavericks 10.9.4. I use it about 2 hours a day on average for the past 3 weeks and the issue cease to exist with this setup. I'm will try the SL2 and SZ setup this weekend and report back after thoroughly testing both setups for a few weeks.

Rane Buffer = 4ms
SDJ Buffer = 2ms

MacBook Pro i5/2.5Ghz, 16GB RAM/256 Internal SSD

Depending what newer/older model you're running, that audio pop/drop out when adjusting the buffer slider mid-gig is really less than a second. Maybe A second if it's an old machine

FYI, did a 5,5h (non-stop) gig yesterday. Moved and applied the buffer setting before starting to play. No dropouts. SDJ 1.6.3

Thanks for that Marqs

Which Mavericks point release are you running? Have you recently updated, or is the change in process (setting the slider before play) the only significant factor in your improved performance?

@Thorissr - Can you think of anything you may have changed around the time you stopped experiencing the issue? OS update, hard drive configuration, start up and play process...?

As an update, I just want to let you all know that a lot of work is continuing to be done behind the scenes by our development team. This is a really thorny issue to pin down and we have implemented new logging to specifically try and catch what is causing this.

On this, can I ask everyone here to try the 1.7 beta: serato.com You will need to run two versions (1.6.3 and 1.7 beta) as the beta is not for public performance. You will also need to have two versions of Rane driver installed if you are running a Rane device: serato.com.

The new logging we have is only present in the 1.7 beta so far. If one of you were to experience this issue using the beta, we have a significantly greater chance of being able to identify the root cause(s).

Thanks
Aaron

Ok Its almost September 2014 and still NO FIX ON THIS MATTER.. Serato you need to make searto scratch live work with the rane 64!! Im spent alot of money on this mixer for a professinal product its been everything but professional.. All I can say is Traktor is starting to look real nice about now.....

Its pretty frustrating for sure. This is the first time I've ever regretted buying a Rane mixer, but its also pretty fantastic to see the manufacturers stepping up to fix the issue. Its easy to look good when everything works perfectly, but a strong measure of the quality of a company is how they handle it when shit goes left.

Thanks to everyone for working on making this issue a memory.

I'm on Mavericks 10.9.4

Haven't changed anything in the process or settings recently. It sometimes happen that I play with Pioneer CDJ-s in HID Advanced mode and sometimes using the control CD-s using time code. Depends on the availability of the equipment at venues. But I still stand strong, that whenever I pre-apply the audio buffer before starting a set, haven't got any mentioned dropouts.

Regarding 1.7.0 beta. Was about to test it at one gig, but the CPU usage looked a bit too dangerous (up from 30% to 50-60%), so I dropped the idea for that gig. It was also with the first beta. Will test current beta this week without pre-applying audio buffer. Will report after.

Thanks man, it would be great if you could report the high CPU usage in the beta area. That would be good feedback.

As an update, we have now run some sophisticated timing tests and have determined that there is nothing we can do in Serato DJ to help with this issue. We are not entirely sure exactly where the problem lies (driver or OS), or what the potential fix might be, but we do know that it is not being caused by Serato DJ.

This is not meant to be a passing of the buck as we are still doing everything we can to get this resolved. The tricky thing for us now though is that we can't fix this directly ourselves. We are working closely with our hardware partners to determine whether something can be done in the driver to fix this, but if it is an OS issue, we will have to approach Apple.

I'm as frustrated as any of you by this, but we have to keep working with the realities we're facing. Hopefully our hardware partners can get to the bottom of it as Apple are not well-known for being helpful.

I'll keep you all posted of any developments.

Aaron

since adding the process of adjusting and applying the buffer setting before each gig, I've had no latency issue. why not just build a script into the program that does this automatically on launch?

also interesting, on my tag writing issue mentioned earlier...I found that although the admin had full read/write permission on my external drive, "guest" log-in did not, which you would think makes no difference since I never use that log-in...but after giving read/write permission to all users on the external drive, my computer stopped asking me to update the backup on the external every time I close and there don't appear to be huge clumps of tag writing cropping up in the log files anymore.

Its been suggested that tag writing and mixer disconnects seem to coincide. If you use an external drive for content, worth taking a look at all the permission settings.

Thanks Amos Myth



That's really good info thanks, but I myself am not sure how feasible this is. In fact, It's my understanding that we do this already... hmmm, I'll run this by the development team.

And yes, I highly recommend making sure that all user accounts have permissions for all hard drives (within reason). Not having the appropriate permissions could cause a number of issues in Serato DJ.

Cheers
Aaron

so it might be a problem, not hardware Rane at levels compatible with the system software apple. then I have to do I can buy a 62 or a month or 2 I find that the problem and the mixer, and everything is going to end up like the 57 and sl1

Sorry Aron, but I would not spend my money and then find myself that it is the fault of the mixer. I should make the purchase this week or next and I would not regret it.

Note.. this is not an issue with OSX 10.7 or earlier (although the newest version of SDJ does not work on 10.6.8 or earlier.) Its only a problem with 10.8 and 10.9.
Something was changed in these OS's in regards to Core Audio drivers and how they work.

This issue also happens with Pioneer mixers. Its not a problem specific to Rane mixers.

Can someone please post "step by step" instructions what to exactly do when you have the latency problem during the gig. I know that each issue is kind of different but this is getting really annoying, people look at dj like wtf ....

From the experience of some here, the best thing to do first is re-set the Serato DJ latency buffer in the Setup > Audio screen. You can move it away, then back and click 'Apply'. This seems to be helping people avoid the issue.

If you do experience this issue while playing, simply do the above (move the slider away, back, then 'Apply') to restore the original latency. You will experience a small dropout when you do this, but it's the only way to restore the original latency.

Cheers
Aaron

and if you tried to replace the audio kext with those of Lion might be a temporary solution? I think what we can do. Unfortunately not all can go back to mac Lion

Now I do not know about how it is built inside the 62 if you have 2 separate cards they have in common inputs and outputs, or the chip that is updated by the firmware is unique or separate, if it had been separated would be a great idea to upgrade the firmware to a single USB port. one with the fw to SDJ, one for SSL so in case of problems with latency switching to the next computer with SSL so you can restereste the buffer without hearing the audio drop. I know it's fiction but as an idea it would not be bad. Obviously this until we solve the problems of latency with SDJ

Are you sure, that 10.8 systems are affected too? From my understanding and observations this seems to be limited to 10.9 - please correct me if I am wrong.

I think what Zach's referring to is that there have been some reports from users running 10.8. These haven't been confirmed in-house because this is a very tricky issue to reproduce. We haven't heard from these users in some time so it may have been a different issue for them, but we can't rule them out.

Having said all this, it appears highly likely to be 10.9 specific due to changes made with CoreAUDIO in this version.

Cheers
Aaron

my 62 arrives tomorrow. I'm excited

Nice. Great mixer :)

Thanks Aaron E, a dream come true, now let's just hope that the various problems of Serato, with the core audio from Apple to reach a solution.

Ok, so I tested 1.7.0 latest beta yesterday at a gig. Managed to get dropouts at the end of the first hour. No USB light came on at that moment and dropouts sounded quite like we've previously discussed here. Latency didn't change drastically after incident, but I felt that after applying the buffer slider fix, it felt a bit tighter. No dropouts after that fix for the rest of the night.

This time I didn't pre-apply buffer before starting!

So what do I have to do now? Should there be a log somewhere to post? Let's nail it. :)

Aaron E, Zach, mixer arrived, fantastic already updated graphically serato dj, firmware 2.21 I have to get used to the new position of the keys compared to z2. as soon as I can I will test the latency problem. I noticed in Serato DJ that when you load a track on the desk cpu level of salt, even if it has already been analyzed. I did it again trace analysis and in some the beat grid does not appear, I'm going to set it manually, but when you restart the program will not be displayed again. I'll make a video of the problem to see if it is a program error. with this 2.21 firmware can I still use SSL.

Hey zaza,

Good to hear you got your mixer:)
You should post your other issues/questions in a separate thread so we can keep this one on track with the latency issue.

Hello Zach, I'm sorry, anyway I can just spend a few hours at home for the latency test, will update. Now I will open the discussion to the problems un'altoa added in the previous post.

Hey Marqs,
I'm guessing they'll want that data on the beta thread as well. check your log files in the serato folder for the log pertaining to the event and upload it to the thread using the "attach a file button" to the upper left of the reply field. it will take a second to load, so wait until it finishes to hit "post". Thanks for helping out.

Attached a log. It happened at around 23.55 local time.

Awesome, thanks for the log Marqs.

We have some new logging in 1.7 so our development team will be able to get more information from this.

Good advice to feed back in the beta area, too DJ Amos Myth. However, for this particular issue we are all working very closely so no need to create a thread there as well.

Cheers guys
Aaron

Hello, today I tested a bit to 1 ms latency, I get dropouts, do not drop audio. no red dot. received audio drop, just open the program, as soon as I placed the shure on the disc, but got no latency delay in the movement of the vinyl. then I impotato latency to 2ms, no dropouts, I received audio drop because I had a flat battery, light ross fixed but no delay in the movement of the disc. I have music on the internal ssd. mine is a macbook pro retina early 2013, 8GB Ram, 256 ssd

are not dropouts but as of clicks, but during these small clik 'there is no notice red or bright yellow.

mixed, by now 19, at 20:30, 1ms latency, no problem, I will try again in these days

tested still serato dj 1.7 beta, from 11:30 to 13:00, does not change buffer latency in the beginning, started the software began to stir. 41% processor usage with both the time code in action, 2ms latency, tried to mix both with integrated graphics card that discreet, no problem latency and drop audio, none of movement in late scratch.

Tried two hours serato dj 1.6.3, 2ms latency buffer in the control panel, it is automatically set to 4ms, no audio drop or delay latency. used for 2 hours in a row. I do not understand why I do not have these problems.

I mean, buffer Serato DJ 2ms. Rane buffer panel found automatically 4ms. everything works perfectly.

That's great dj zaza, thanks for the information.



Fortunately, this issue does not affect every user. This is why we have found it very difficult to reproduce.

On this note though, we have now reproduced this issue to a degree where we have been able to determine that the root of the issue lies in the timing between the driver and OS X 10.9 Mavericks. We have shared our results with our hardware partners and they are now investigating whether a fix is possible in their drivers.

Unfortunately, there won't be a fix ready for Serato DJ 1.7, but driver updates will be made available as soon as a fix is found. In the meantime, for those experiencing this issue, I highly recommend moving the Serato DJ buffer slider [in Setup > Audio] away, back, and then clicking Apply before starting your set. This seems to be helping avoid this issue.

Thanks for your patience with this issue. I'm looking forward to having this resolved as much you are.

Cheers
Aaron

Aron, it all works well, I posted 2 bugs on version 1.7.0, I hope you can see these too. I'm happy with my 62

Great news dj zaza.

Yes, all bugs logged during the beta have been processed. Enjoy your Sixty-Two!

Aaron

My suggestions (Rane62, Windows):

Software

-clean %temp% folder
-do not connect to internet
-login as local admin
-set Serato to high priority app
-kill any other applications running in the backrogund (also check your startup manager, msconfig)
-try to avoid any unnecessary windows updates
-clean registry

Hardware

-clean your needles
-clean your vinyl control record
-make sure to adjust right tone arm on your turntable
-wash your hands before gig

Serato

-move buffer slider (in control panel) before opening Serato
-make sure you have the right firmware version (Rane)
-try to play different type of files (flac, random bitrate, length)

I was having that latency issue(1.6.3) for over three months, usually after 3-4hrs using Serato, now it's just disappear... idk why how.
Will try 1.7 today!
Peace

Thanks MeeHow

That's some good optimization advice right there. I would recommend the above steps to anyone experiencing dropouts in general and this issue in particular.

The one thing I don't get is: Playing different types of files is not known to reduce the likelihood of getting dropouts.

Cheers though, and great to hear you aren't experiencing this issue any more!

Aaron

I have experienced this problem with my 62 at home, and now also with the pioneer djm900srt at the club I resident at, terribly annoying, NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED!!! Also why do my cue points stop working on my 62 when Im using serato dj, this happens pretty frequently(at least once every 15 minutes or like 1 out of every 5 songs, the cue points will light up but will not respond when pressed(which can be fixed by switching the channel knob to usb B then back to A again, but is extremely annoying to do on a consistent basis).

I find it really hard to move onto serato dj when it is constantly bugging out and extremely unreliable, I don't see why I would leave something thats stable and works 100% of the time(Scratch Live) for serato dj which seems to be a premature beta version that doesn't have the most basic(Vinyl latency) function mastered. Vinyl latency is pretty much one of the most important elements to any DVS system(Scratch Live, Serato DJ, Traktor, etc.)

It just seems plain irresponsible to allow this to even be released while this major bug hasn't been resolved yet

I hear you theguy67, this is a really frustrating issue for everyone involved.

We have identified that the issue lies in the timing between the driver and the OS and we are working closely with our hardware partners to try and resolve this as quickly as possible. Due to the certainty of our findings we have now issued an FAQ on this issue here: support.serato.com

For your other issue (cues not responding), can you please open a help request at support.serato.com so one of the team can troubleshoot with you. One simple question I can ask here is whether you have the latest drivers and firmware? This is always the best first troubleshooting step when facing hardware related issues.

Cheers
Aaron

That page is not coming up for me...

My apologies Jed 104, it was still in a draft state when I posted it. Should be good now!

Cheers

if your cue point stop working update your firmware on your 62 man

Am following the thread for the same deal of problems here...but your statement got me very curious....are there any kind of problems caused by SMC fan run?...been running it at default just to get the temp/fan values on my taskbar forever, never though it could be giving any trouble....curious what kind of problems did you find on it, if so....

Cheers
Nik

SMC Fan Control seems OK to me. We were just trying to rule it out as an issue, which I think we did.

I have contacted support, but I thought I would put it out there that I am also experiencing what appears to be this same issue, with Mavericks (I posted in another thread that it wasn't Mavericks, but I was wrong). It's happened to me three times this week, each time after playing for about 1-2 hours with no issue, I have a brief drop out, followed by the major lag in vinyl control. Resetting the buffer slider does solve it, however that also causes a brief audio dropout, so unfortunately I don't think I can use Serato DJ out live again until this is resolved. *Sad face*.

Thanks for putting that here deejayreece. And thanks for letting us know you are on Mavericks too man.

It's an incredibly frustrating issue, but we're getting there with it.

Aaron

No problem. Do you still want log files sent through, or you kind of have it nailed at this point?

Thanks but yeah, we've got it narrowed down now. We know where the issue lies, just have to get it fixed somehow!

From another thread:

this is the issue i am also having along with the latancy
serato.com

I had the latency issue happen again at a gig, running SDJ 1.7.

I know you guys are aware of the problem, but I uploaded a log file just in case it helps.
The issue happened around 4:30pm.

Thanks Joseph. Bummer to hear it happened again for you.
Just out of interest, did you re-set the buffer slider before starting your set? It's good to know if this is actually helping people.

Frankie Glasses, could you please confirm which OS version you are using? According to our tests so far, this issue is only existent on OS X 10.9.

Aaron

I didn't re-set the buffer slider before the event started, but I did after the issue came up, that fixed it and it was smooth sailing for the rest of the event.

I need to remember to move that slider before starting a gig, until this problem is fixed.

Mountain Lion

FYI: Although i get the latency issue, my real issue is complete audio drop out followed by studdering/hanging waveforms. Resetting buffer does not work, ejecting track and re-loading same or different track results in same issue.
The only work around is to close out SDJ and restart mixer. If i just restart SDJ it reverts back to same issue. I already provided a support ticket with no response.

its been a while since this issue has happened for me...doing the slider reset before gigs when I remember. sometimes I miss it, but still no problems.

Thanks Amos Myth - this is really useful information for everyone.

Can everyone experiencing this issue please re-set the Serato DJ buffer slider prior to playing. This will hopefully help avoid the issue.

Aaron

@Frankie Glasses - can I ask you to email support@serato.com, attention my name so I can troubleshoot this directly with you? I see you worked with Martin for a while on this and I'd like to dig deeper to see where we can get.

Cheers
Aaron

Today it happened to me for the first time. Before updating to 1.9.5 maverik, never happened. I do not know how it happened, the operation that I was making was to change the pitch range on my ttx usb. Now I do not know if this was a coincidence. I am attaching my log files.

Thanks dj zaza

Could I ask you to try the 're-set buffer slider in SDJ before playing' workaround? The more people we have reporting that this works for them, the stronger we can push it and the more likely we could build it as a potential fix.

Cheers
Aaron

Aron ok, now I'll try to set up the first buffer and then begin the mix. I had already seen this suggestion, I hope this problem will be resolved with OS X 10:10

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be. I have one user who has been testing with OS X 10.10 and he has experienced this issue a couple of times already.

The re-set before playing however does seem to be working :)

@Aaron I have done this procedure but havent really used it for longer than an hour.
WHat are other users experience how long this temp fix works? A few hrs or until SDJ is reopened again.

Hey Frankie Glasses

Most are reporting that it holds through the whole session. I've just had a good chat with a couple of senior developers and their opinion is that this workaround is unverifiable, however could be practical.

In non-developer speak, this means that we can't test (or therefore guarantee) whether this workaround will work for everyone. However, it could be possible that this second connection of the audio is better than the first due to the different process that is taking place.

Can everyone on this thread experiencing this issue please re-set the Serato DJ buffer slider before starting your set and report back whether this helps or not. This would be much appreciated, thanks!

In other news, Rane are continuing to make progress on a proper fix for their hardware.

Aaron

Thanks and thanks Aaron! I will attempt to try this at my next gig and hopefully no problems!

No worries man, give it a go for sure!

I'm going to talk with Martin about your other issue now.

Aaron

Hey Aaron E,

Just dropping in and wanted to let you know that I had a wedding gig this past weekend and went ahead and used SDJ and used the reset buffer workaround first before starting.

I started playing at 6 pm and played for about 2 hours straight with no problem. They also had a band that started playing around 8 so I was switching back to back with them every 30 min. When they would play I would just leave SDJ open and not close it down, and when they took a break I would start playing again and it ended around 12 am so I had SDJ open for about 6 hrs and I had no problems at all with drop outs or Latency with the workaround.

Also had a gig the weekend before that I used SDJ for 5 hours straight and of course reset my buffer before I stared with no problems at all.

So I'm pretty confident using SDJ now with this workaround...just those pops and clicks with PnT enabled and when scratching is getting a lil annoying tho but that is a different topic.

Thanks

Hey thanks RAYMIXX, that's great to hear. Long sessions like that are a really good test so it's awesome you had no issues.



Yeah, we're onto this one and feel pretty confident we'll be able to get a good solution into a release soon. I for one am very happy about this!

Cheers
Aaron

Been using the work around (before you start method) the last few gigs as well. Been going good. Except tonight there was just one little stutter glitch in the waveforms and audio 2 hours into my 4 1/2 hour set. I didn't test the latency effect, as I was in the middle of a quick mix, so I just did the quick bandaid fix and kept going. But it never happened again the rest of the night.

Can I use scratch live with Mavericks 10.9.5 and a Rane 61 with latest drivers for 1.7? Started it up for a wedding today and even having processor errors and ouother glitch shit happening. It is not getting better with my MBP 15" 2.6 ghz processor 16 gigs ram.

If you think the new drivers are an issue, opening Serato DJ 1.6.3 will reinstall the old drivers. I've found 1.7 to be unusable.

Thanks Myth - Here is an update after my gig tonight.

Late 2013 MBP 15" 2.6 Ghz i7 16gb RAM.
Mavericks 10.9.5
SDJ 1.7
Rane 61 With newest firmware sept. 2014

Moved the audio buffer on startup as usual, played an auto mix the background. 10 minutes in - I started to hear a glitch, almost like a sample rate glitch in audio recording. That is a sound I have not heard before. It did drop out like this thread - but I was not around to see if there was any latency. Probably should not have updated to 10.9.5.

Went to Scratch Live and it worked not problem with newest Rane 61 driver. I know this is a pain for everyone. I hope this helps the cause. I am happy I can still use Scratch Live. I'll probably stay here until things are ironed out.

The CPU warning light also was present. Thanks

How about a patch that runs the process of moving the slider automatically on startup? I keep forgetting to do mine and then having the problem. To be honest I don't think I should have to remember its a piece of pro DJ software and a pro mixer...

Yes we did consider this, but because we can't verify it as a fix, we won't build it in and say it's one. I know it's frustrating man, but it's the best we've got at the moment.

OK, you dont have to say its a fix just build it in as a 'stealth feature' ;)

Haha, tempting :)

I would personally be quite keen for this to get done, but unfortunately I don't get to make decisions about what goes in the code..

Cheers

@Aaron
Update: So this past gig i opened up SDJ reset the audio buffer (offline mode)
Plugged in usb reset it again (5ms).
Results:
SDJ seemed a little sluggish while searching. My library is not that big. 4K tracks (audio & Video) NH NM
Had some very minor audio dropouts through out the night.
Audio did not seem as good as SSL. Slightly distorted at times. (no redling on mixer). adjusted gains and volumes to compensate. This was first time noticing that.
Could the above be a result of not analyzing tracks in SDJ vs SSL?
Warning light came on 3-4 times per track
Was able to run SDJ the entire night without any MAJOR issues and no latency with turntable movement or audio.
No waveforms studdering/hanging

Forgot to mention i was running Mix Emergency as well

That'S a known issue in 1.7.0 and will be fixed (hopefully) soon.

Frankie, I feel sorry for you because I had the same issues as well for month and month.

Lets be honest: You won't be able to fix this problem if this once occurs.

I bought ne cables, bought new cartridges, bought a new macbook etc. but still experienced the same problems that you reported, thats why I had to buy a new mixer (no Rane).

I still got my 62 but I don't use it anymore for professional gigs.

All of the problems stated above sound like a software issue.. not anything to do with the 62. What mixer are you using now? What Rane device are you using now?

All of the problems stated above sound like a software issue.. not anything to do with the 62. What mixer are you using now? What Rane device are you using now?[/Quote

Yo zach please come on : your right it is a Software Problem but Not serato Software :

the problem is caused by Ranes Ultra low latency asio driver!!!!!

The issue of this post is a Core Audio issue... not an ASIO issue.

Also... this is not just with Rane's Core Audio drivers. This issue is present when using Pioneer's Serato mixer too.

What mixer did you purchase?

the problem and that Apple should give themselves to calm down, we users do not give a damn competition, intel processor can pull off a month, we do not care, microsoft can come out with a new windows every month, we do not care , apple must return to us Os stable, because this thing continues to add crap, but who cares about iMessage, notification center, face time, the graphics stoles ios, we want a streamlined system and no stupid things, like snow leopard. ios we leave out of the mac. if there was a linux version for Serato'd already formatting the mac and installing linux. I hope that Serato creates its own ecosystem, its own laptop with Serato just like os, for services to scream. now the apple is no longer as before, to gain more bay to the care of its products and customers. you believe that Apple will change their core sound, dj for us. I think it will pass in time.

In the words of Queen...

I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, and I want it now.

Ups I meant Core Audio not ASIO, but whats the buttom line Zach ???
The answer is easy, youl will find the answer in the posts by all these people!

I bought the 900 SRT I dont have any of these Problems anymore.
The mixer just works like it should ! i put an mini PNP Crossfader in it and turend it to a scratch beast!! Plus I got 4 virtual Decks and an SP1 for a lower price than my 62 was!

its been ages since I've had this problem with 1.6.3 and lately I've been intentionally slacking on the slider reset before gigs. is it possible apple sorted this out on a recent OS update?

1. - This Orangetto character is a moron. We're all in agreement on that, yes?

2. - I had this issue pop up tonight on 1.7. Just ordered an SP1 again (for the second time. I sent the first one back) because I was feeling like 1.7 was solid, but now I'm considering canceling the order because I still can't trust SDJ for live us with turntables.

1. Agreed.

2. Did you re-set the buffer slider before playing, and it still happened?

Not to my knowledge unfortunately. I highly recommend still doing the re-set before playing.

I didn't. I haven't really kept up on this entire discussion. Is that the current fix for this? I just ordered a DDJ-SP1 for the second time now (sent the first one back because of SDJ instability issues) and have been questioning that purchase since Saturday night when this popped back up.

Not a fix as such, but doing this does seem to have been helping people avoid it. Moving the buffer slider away and back, then clicking 'Apply' will also get your latency back to its original level if you run into this issue.

I wonder if it is not possible, totally separate from the core of the audio mac, create something that works on its own, it is normal that if apple makes a small change to the driver this can go to interfere with anything. If you scratch live had no such problems, why not recreate a driver for Serato DJ similar to SSL, the fix for this problem would be faster, without having to sit there waiting for a fix from Apple, which at the moment in my opinion is more concerned with profit, to solve problems on their products. take a trip on the apple forum, and see how many problems people have with the new products. We hope this situation is resolved as quickly as possible

1. Agreed :-)
2. Agreed :-)

Sorry for double posting!

Please dont get me wrong!

Iam still a big fan of Rane, because over the years I only used a Rane Mixer.

I still got my Rane62 because it´s still a dope battle mixer for using in the bedroom or mixing analog. But for professional use/work in a club or at parties I cant trust it anymore.

Has somebody seen DJ Premier using the 62 and Serato DJ ?

There must be good reason because Premo gets all the stuff for free!

Take a look at the Serato Icon Section. " DJ Premier uses a Rane 57 and SL".

62 still works with SSL...flawlessly. I have never once had any kind of the slightest performance issue using one, be it on SSL or SDJ. My one issue I had the other night was on a 61, which seems to be the least focused-on piece of equipment that these SDJ issues surrounds.

As far as Premier getting free stuff, the reasons are obvious without stating.

Hey everyone

Can I please see a show of hands for a couple of things? Let me know if you:

1. Have experienced this issue since updating to Serato DJ 1.7 (without doing the re-set before playing)

2. Have experienced this issue since updating to Serato DJ 1.7 (and are doing the re-set before playing)

3. Continue to experience this issue with Serato DJ 1.6.3 or below (without doing the re-set before playing)

4. Continue to experience this issue with Serato DJ 1.6.3 or below (and are doing the re-set before playing)

This info would be much appreciated!

Thanks
Aaron

Just happened to me with 1.7.1 .... I didn't adjust the slider... I think I gave you the file you're looking for in the serato.log section

This happened to me on 1.7 without resetting the slider. Haven't played out with 1.7.1 yet.

Also happened to me on 1.7.1 without resetting the slider... moving the slider after it happened did fix it. Will try again tomorrow and reset the slider before.

Thanks guys, that's great info.

It would be awesome if you could let me know if re-setting before you play helps on 1.7.1.

Thanks
Aaron

I've tried 1.7.1 twice now without the 'reset before starting' and all that I've got was the stutter glitch once each 4 hour set with no DVS latency affected at all.

Will try the 'reset before starting' this week and see how it goes

Thanks man, been meaning to get back to your email :)

Reset prior to last night's gig using 1.7.1. No latency issues. Did have one hiccup with the audio.

Sounds like the same issue as mine.



No prob.

Did the reset prior to playing on 1.7.1 also no issues tonight. Will try a few more times this week.

@Aaron E

I've adjusted the slider before starting my event and didn't have an issue. Both of my events are about 6 hours long with scratching and quick mixes.
SL3
TTM56s
CDJ's - 800 MK2



Reluctantly I've had to move my USB slider from 1 to 2 on my SL3 as I was getting Pop's and USB lights even though I've got a MBP Retina with 2.7 i7 and 16 gig of ram and 1tb ssd

but that's for another thread ;-)

moved the slider on 1.7.1 Saturday night. no latency issue, but two crashes...also for another conversation. help request submitted.

Thanks guys, that's great. And cheers for opening new help requests for your other issues - really helps to keep this thread on topic.

Aaron

I'm using 1.7.0 didn't not change buffer size on sdj and got a bad lag about two hours into my set on the turntables. Will try reseting before starting my set tonight.

No latency issues last night, but I did have a couple audio stutters before I all of the sudden had both tracking bars go red and the audio cut out completely. I had to shut down SDJ and go back to SSL. This is after weeks of telling my guys that SDJ is fine...and buying a DDJ-SP1.

Last few weeks have been using SSL. Been working like a charm! I'll go to SDJ when it's confirmed everything is working well. I too bought new hardware, a Rane 61. Scratch live has been working well, why mess with a good thing!I know it's some point SDJ will be ready to go, until then it is unreliable.

I'm just annoyed that I've gone and spent another $400 on equipment (SP1 + stand) that is essentially useless until Serato gets this BS figured out.

I already bought the SP1 once before, but sent it back after SDJ crashed on me mid-gig. Several months later now I thought we were all good to go, but alas...

That doesn't sound good at all djmacklong. It also doesn't sound directly related to this issue. Can I ask you to open a new help request for this so one of the team can troubleshoot with you. There's no known issue giving the symptoms you describe so you shouldn't have to live with that.

Aaron

Just out of curiosity because I'm considering doing this... Downgrading my OS to avoid this. Which is the most stable OS to use with Serato DJ?.... Lion, Mountain Lion? I'm getting a bit tired of worrying about this and I can't afford to have this sort of problem at a big gig. It will be a pain to reinstall everything and to reanalyze my files but not as bad as loosing rep and other potential gigs because of something like this happening. For now I'm using my older MacBook Pro with Scratch Live for important events and at the clubs. Even though the buffer reset workaround does seem to be working... I don't trust it.

Just this weekend I created an OSX 10.8 (Mountain Lion) partition on my internal HDD and ran Scratch Live with Scratch Video on it. Worked like a champ.

Scratch Live is still stable thankfully! Serato DJ not so much - not yet anyways. How about Serato DJ with Mountain Lion? (My old computer is a 2011 MBP running Snow Leopard with Serato Scratch Live - worked like a charm)

I am/was using SDJ with Mountain Lion and i have issues

Frankie Glasses is correct that this issue affects both 10.8 and 10.9, but seems to be much more prevalent in Mavericks.

If the buffer re-set is working for you, I would recommend keeping going with that, but if you were to roll back your OS, you would need to go to 10.7.x to be sure.

This beta looks like it has a fix correct?

DO we need to reset buffer still for 1.7.2 beta?

Good questions guys.

There is a possible fix in the 1.7.2 beta that we would love everyone to test. Can I ask you all to try the 1.7.2 beta version and NOT do the re-set before playing. If you then experience the issue, please make a report in the beta area stating the device you are using and the fact that you didn't re-set the buffer before playing.

Link to the 1.7.2 beta: serato.com

If you don't experience the issue after a period where you feel you would/should have, please report back here with your hardware.

Thanks in advance guys, this will be really helpful information in verifying the potential fix.

Aaron

where is this beta... maybe I'm stupid but I can't seem to find it

Ah sorry man, here you go: serato.com

[added the link to the original message too]

man thank you but right now I feel really stupid as I can't find the link to actually download it...

nevermind.. I found it.. Damn things have changed since the last time i used a beta

very first track.. there was a pop in the audio when I switched from int to rel and lost all audio coming out of that channel

Yeah, sorry, the download links can be a bit obscure. We just want people to be really aware they are running a beta so make the process very different to a release version process.



Doesn't sound good. Make a report in the beta area and we'll work with you on that there.

Cheers
Aaron

Played on 1.7.2 Beta & Yosemite last night using SL2 for 2 hours without resetting the slider. No issues at all it ran really nice. Will test for 4 hours tonight and with my 62 when it comes out of the repair shop (again)...

Thanks Jed 104

Will be good to hear how your 4 hour test goes and we're definitely interested in hearing about the Sixty-Two when you have it back.

Aaron

Hi, I tried to test the "reset buffer" method on Saturday...

Experienced a couple small issues:

I was using,
Serato SL2, with CDJ's.
Late 2010/Early 2011 15" MacBook Pro - Mavericks 10.9.5
Serato DJ 1.7.1

- Setup box and cables as normal,
- Opened SDJ, and plugged in SL2 USB to my MacBook
- Went to settings, moved USB buffer slider to 2ms, hit "Apply"
- moved slider back to 1ms, hit "Apply"
- played left deck, OK. Right deck had a problem

The every 5 seconds or so, signal bar above the virtual deck was dipping down a couple notches, and the wave form was glitching (so was the audio) by a half beats or so each time. Audibly noticeable on the empty room but obviously, after this happens a couple times you're completely out of sync after beatmatching.

- I decided SDJ was acting up so went back to SSL, but the same problem existed.
- Restarted my Macbook and just went back to SSL and everything worked fine as normal.

I'm not sure what resetting the slider does but it clearly caused something to happen where SSL wasn't working 100% either, driver issue?

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to give my exp on this method, because I'm so anxious to start using SDJ.

Hey guys,

To aid us in some investigation please let us know : if you experience this turntable latency being discussed in the thread, does your computer have a solid state drive or a 'spinning disk' hard drive?

Please just make sure the latency you experience is definitely what is being discussed here, i.e a very noticeable delay when moving the platter vs when you hear the audio.

Cheers :)

So...Solid State Drive vs. "Hard Drive"? lol.

I'm running a 500gb SSD.

Turntable latency... Seagate Hybrid Drive ST1000LM014 1TB.

Running a 250ggb SSD -- I believe it's an Intel, not sure what model.

512 gB SSD for me

FYI: this was happening to me before my SSD disc doubler upgrade from Other World Computing. Sorry I don't have more to add. I had to go back to SSL. I hope you get it sorted out. I'd really like to get back on my SixtyFour.

Hey guys - furthermore if you could let us know if your SSD drive is 'post market' i.e it's been added in/swapped out for the DVS drive etc, that'd be really helpful!

Thanks.

1tb SSD. Straight from Apple.

500gb SSD factory.... and I don't keep any music or videos usually on the laptop, and I use a 2TB external that is obviously a standard harddrive...

500gb SSD factory installed.

I read a post about issues with the new apple update yosemite and 3rd party ssd's? anybody else see that article?

yuo cant perform trim garbage collection command. they disbaled it in yosemite.

Are you talking about this article?
www.zdnet.com

I've been using Trim Enabler, a free app that enables TRIM on third-party SSDs.
They posted this article regarding Yosemite:
www.cindori.org

Someone with more knowledge on this stuff, feel free to chime in.

Ya apple trying to keep you using there products only lol lol

people on here who no more then me I'm sure.

Hey everyone, significant news on the big latency issue. This is the blurb from the release notes that went out with the latest SDJ 1.7.2 beta yesterday:



What this means is that the underlying issue still exists because it lies somewhere between the driver and the OS and can't be fixed in the software. The user experience however is dramatically improved in that:

- you shouldn't experience the large latency any more
- if you experience the dropout caused by the underlying issue, it should be shorter in duration and therefore less noticeable

Can I ask everyone who has experienced this issue to try the latest beta release here: serato.com and report back in the beta area if you have any issues.

Feel free to ask any questions here that you may have, and positive feedback on the beta is always welcome :)

Cheers
Aaron

Discussions on Yosemite issues are happening over here guys: serato.com

Just had a huge drop out, followed by extreme latency on 1.7.2


OS X 10.9.4
2.5 GHZ i5
8GB RAM
Intel SSD

I hope I attached the correct file.

Hey man

Can you tell me about when in the session you experienced the dropout and latency? Did you shut down SDJ straight after you got it?

Cheers,
Aaron

It was right in the end, i shut down almost immediately after.

Thanks man, I'll get it looked at.

Hey Jimi_Hoffa,

What version exactly where you using during this session? It will say this when you open the software, click setup and look down the bottom left hand corner.

Your session runs from 19:09 to 20:11 - so about an hour set. Does that sound correct to you?

So the issue happened for you basically within the last 5 minutes then..say just after 8pm/20:00 or so?

He already said he was on 1.7.2.

I was running the latest, newly released 1.7.2 (1725850)

Hey Jimi_Hoffa



Does this sound about right to you? It would be good to know so we can look at your log in earnest.

Thanks

Yes, seems right. It was the only time I tinkered with it that day.
Can also add that I had the AFX plugged in.

Had one just now,not many minutes in..
This is horrible, thought that this update was supposed to fix it, not make it worse?

Equipment:
DJM-900srt
AKAI AFX
Turntables

See previous post for other specs.

Hey Jimi_Hoffa

From your logs I can see that you are not experiencing the same issue as it existed before, so we may need to explore some other options as to what may be happening for you. I'm getting your logs looked at by our development team.

In the mean time, can we start to narrow some things down? Can you please try running Serato DJ with just your DJM-900SRT connected to see if you experience the issue. It would be great to know if this is specific to either the SRT or the AFX.

Also, is there any chance you could try a different computer with the same setup? This will also help us get closer to figuring out what may be going on.

Cheers,
Aaron

Just had a bit over an hour running with the same setup, nothing happened.
Will try more tomorrow without the AFX plugged in.

Thanks man

Could you also please upload your full computer profile?

You can get it from clicking the 'Apple' > About this Mac > More Info... > System Report.

Cheers,
Aaron

It's in norwegian, let me know if you need me to translate it:

Modellnavn: MacBook Pro
Modellidentifikator: MacBookPro9,2
Prosessornavn: Intel Core i5
Prosessorhastighet: 2,5 GHz
Antall prosessorer: 1
Totalt antall kjerner: 2
Nivå 2-buffer (per kjerne): 256 kB
Nivå 3-buffer: 3 MB
Hukommelse: 8 GB
Start-ROM-versjon: MBP91.00D3.B09
SMC-versjon (system): 2.2f41
Serienummer (system): C1ML46N3DTY3
Maskinvare-UUID: 0D16A13B-53D8-5F68-BCA4-5C4B9FF25CEB
Sudden Motion Sensor:
Tilstand: Aktivert

Thanks Jimi_Hoffa, that should be fine.

Aaron

Not been available to mix for a longer period today, so can't bring any news, but as I failed to mention the other day, was that I updated the firmware on the mixer from 1.10 to 1.12, and had a bit over an hour session where nothing happened.

Cheers man, good to know. We're having a look at things our end, but jump back in here with any updates for sure.

Just had about 3 hours with and without the AFX plugged in, and nothing happened.

Has this been resolved?

Has happened to me at least 5 times, including twice on the same night. Only resolution is to unplug USB, which is not an option in some settings.

My suspicion is that this has something to do with other hardware involved, aka 2 computers hooked up to SL4 or SL4 hooked up to a Rane mixer.

Horrible bug, nothing half as bad ever existed on SL AFAIK

@chlyklass

You shouldn't have to unplug the USB... what you need to do is basically go to setup... then to audio.... then adjust the slider for the USB buffer... move the slider off of what it is and then back... and hit apply and it should go back to working with no latency...

There will be a noticeable cut in the music for a second so I found it's best to do so on a breakdown of a track... and use the echo on the mixer you're using just before you press "apply" so it covers the blanked out sound from applying buffer...

Doing this saved me from complete dead air in front of 6000 people!

Hey chlyklass

For the best workaround, DJ Anti Hero is correct. Re-setting the USB Buffer Size is the fastest and least interruptive way to get back going smoothly.

Can you please let me know what version of Serato DJ you are using? Also, I know it's been a while now, but if you could possibly supply me the session logs from when you experienced this issue, that would be awesome.

You can find them in Music > _Serato_ > Logs.

Cheers,
Aaron

does newest beta help ????

Hey dj-freestyle

There have been no specific changes made for this issue in the 1.7.4 beta. Currently the status of this is that it should be resolved for users of Rane equipment, but we are still receiving the occasional report from Pioneer DJM-900SRT users.

'Occasional' meaning we have two current reports from the total of SRT users. I can't say exactly how many SRT users there are, but it's enough for two reports to represent an extremely low frequency of occurrence.

Have you experienced this recently? If so, it would be great to get your session log file to pass to the development team.

Cheers,
Aaron

Hi Aaron

Does SDJ only save those logs for like the last month or something? Because all I can see is the logs for February, and in the _Serato_Backup folder for the last part of January. So unfortunately I'm afraid I won't be able to help.

BTW Aaron, another much worse bug that you should definitely look at is the one that on SL4, when switching from a computer running SDJ to one running SSL the SDJ computer sometimes 'takes over' unexpectedly again, I think this happens when the next tracks loads on auto mode. If there is already a thread on this subject, please point me to it.

This is an absolutely horrible bug which has caused a f*** in a club when the next DJ takes over, suddenly the song changes. I would have happily provided you with the logs for that one too, however those are further back than a month unfortunately as well.

Hey chlyklass

We automatically save the logs from the last 10 sessions so if you play a lot they will only go back a short way. Best thing to do any time you experience an issue is to go and get the session log after closing Serato DJ and save it to another location. That way you can get it in to us when you want to report the issue.

Hmmm... I haven't heard of this issue with the SL4 before. Can you please try and give me exact reproduction steps so I can test for it? Have all active decks been switched over to the SSL computer when this happens or are you half way through the changeover process (one deck SDJ, one deck SSL)? Also - which computer has Autoplay turned on... both?

Let me know and I'll try reproduce it.

Cheers

I'll try to reproduce it myself, trying to describe it is too big of a hassle and it's been too long for me to be able to say for sure how the setup was.

However, I really don't see the point in limiting the logs to 10. Files sizes are incredibly small. Of course the next time I experience some problem I'll be sure to copy the log somewhere else immediately.

I hear what you are saying that they are small and we could save more. Having more in there though could be confusing and/or redundant as it would likely be difficult for anyone to remember what happened in which session when, beyond the most recent 10.

We could be more active in our messaging around the existence of logs and how helpful they are though. I'll get on this.

Definitely let me know if you can reproduce the changeover issue. I'd be keen to know the setup/workflow that leads to it if it happens again.

Cheers

Hey Guys,

If you are still experiencing this mega latency issue and you want to help test a potential fix we have been working on please join this invite forum area: serato.com

Thanks,
Jamie