sync ...... for me at least is wack ..... i'm even against having the computer right in front of your face and stare at it like fat booty in a porn flick .... A Dj's hands need to be on the equipment and not doing Jesus posses . Work .... sync is just laziness, not an advancement in the dj technology. Don't be lazy and learn the skill necessary to do the job.... go on with your sync cause God knows i wont touch it cause i take pride in my work and im not lazy !!

****** got tea and popcorn ready *****

nm nh nb

Sometimes I use it and sometimes I don't,I prefer a manual car but if the choice was to either walk or use an automatic I would use the automatic,and I would still be driving.

I think the more accurate question is: why do DJs who want to use sync feel the need to start threads defending it. If you want to cheat fucking cheat stop trying to make the world accept it, its you being bored in the booth not us.

My point is, everybody using vinyl emulation is already 'cheating'. The day you picked up Serato was the day you sold out and lost the right to claim you're 'keeping it real', from a purist perspective. I thought long and hard before buying my SL1 box all those years ago, then realised it was the best move I ever made.

Sync is just the final stage.

...and i'm never bored when I play. I play what I want to play, with people I want to play with and in front of crowds I want to play in front of. I would never sell out to play a soul less event, even for big money. If tweaking the pitch slider for a few seconds is the only thing that keeps you interested in your DJing, then i'd re-evaluate what you're getting out of your nights.

I just love playing good music. I get extra props for my playing when I play real vinyl and i've no intention of giving up playing real vinyl alongside Serato. I don't even know yet if Sync is going to work well in my set up as as I haven't tested it properly with vinyl emulation yet.

But......Tweaking the pitch for a few seconds isn't the be all and end all of DJing. It's no more cheating than carrying a large hard drive full of music all with all the BPM's set.

I agree man. North American's with their automatic boxes don't drive their cars like us Europeans do with our manual boxes, well driving purists might not think so. That's a great analogy too.

I dont agree with sync as it removes a fundamental part of bein a dj. I hear what ur sayin about using serato an I put off movin to it for some time but essentially I'm doin the same thing with it as I was wax. Using cue points with dicers is the same as put stickers on my records for example. However I think there is a difference between making life easier an relieving u of your duties as a dj.
Pretty good analogy about the cars an livin in the uk we all drive manuals lol but at the same time unless your some form of pro driving isn't really seen as a specialist skill which I like to think djin is

Theres a world pf difference between using tech to do more and using tech so you dont have to do as much.

The most fundamental part of being a DJ is tune selection. Serato can turn a minute or so job of digging through crates into a few second job. Therefore it speeds up your workflow far more than locking in the tempo does.

Therefore it's a far bigger cheat. BPM's at a glance, hot cues and other 'cheats' takes away the artform, therefore I don't see how sync is any different.

That isn't my experience and i've seen many routines loose their magic because their stickering and technique let them down. It takes a lot of skill to mark up records and use them on the fly.

lol @ 'keeping it real' & 'cheating'.

isnt that all subjective?

while i dont have access to sync, i can imagine some instances that it could be very helpful to me (a 20 year,self proclaimed 'pretty good' mixer/dj).

now, if a noob is on stage, fronting like hes a good dj meanwhile all hes doing is pushing buttons, well, good for him. let him eat. obviously he's doing something better than the dj's complaining.

I agree if u use the bpm read outs when compared to regular wax there is a a clear advantage so yeah maybe that is cheating but you still have to perform the mix I never seen sync so I could be barkin up the wrong tree but isn't it something that u press or set so it's mixed for u makin it impossible to bollocks up a mix? Like I said I could be talkin out my ass but on one hand you have an advantage an the other it's completely done for u

As you say it's all very subjective and each to their own. I welcome all opinions.

But isn't it just the same at the end of the day if a noob is pressing dicer buttons?

I've always been ok with it although I can't say I've ever stickered a record durin a set lol I have major OCD on things like that lol but what I meant it is almost an equivalent what u then do with the cue points is what counts

What I was tryin to get at is even if u did use buttons it's either mixed or out where by u would have to re cue or press te buttons again whereby (based on my limited understanding of the sync function) it does this for u so eliminating any risk of a bad mix.
Ain't tryin to shit on no one jus the way I see it.

If DMC heavyweights can mess up with their stickering, then most people can.

You don't see splice tape much these days, but in the old days that was how you hot cued your records.

No man, it's cool, I welcome your opinions.

But... again, instant cues can make many people into a beat juggling expert overnight.

My trial of using sync with the V7's was that there's no guarantee that Sync is going to get it just right, whereas i'd expect my manual mixing to be tight.

Valid point but was that down to user error in application or did the stickers slip? What I'm sayin is the dicers are an example of improvement on a flawed methodology. There are not performing the routine itself (unless of course u are doin something to incorporate them. Ie u generally use the cv when doin normal juggles).

No your right I hear that it it is a lil easier to spot someone faking the funk on dicers as u can see them bein used maybe
Again I only have limited understanding of how the sync function works so take that for what it is lol

Yep, Dicers now mean that any chimp can do stuff that they wouldn't have been able to do before, without a lot of practice and a good memory.

Serato ScratchLIVE was the natural progression of DJing; DVS - Digital Vinyl Simulation - The computer aids the DJ and performs a minimal of tasks for the human DJ.

Serato DJ (aka sync, aka cheating, aka the noobs wet dream, aka the promoters wet dream, aka the bar owners wet dream, aka the go-go dancers wet dream, aka the reality tv stars wet dream, aka Satans wet dream) is the unnatural progression of DJ Automation (aka the singularity). The end result will be the Anti-Crhist himself will declare himself to be the greatest DJ ever at the UN assembly by floating out of the sky in an inverted jesus pose to press start with a kiss. A spectacular disco ball will drop, massive led displays, lighting and pyrotechnics. He will then invite every delegate up to the podium to be great DJs as well, they will one by one file up on stage to dance next to the computer removing pieces of clothing and occasionally glancing at the computer to see what song it will play next. And all will erupt into an orgy of immoral sex an sodomy as they trample the last existing Technics 1200 ripped from the hands of the last human DJs offspring by a robotic Gestapo (who start DJ careers as well)

I would say playing for free qualifys as doing something better than the compitition

Hahaha nicely written :D

We all saw what happened in Ghostbusters when they crossed the beams...

.......They spawned Tiesto and Guetta and brought untold misery and suffering to the world

Cheating

End of discussion.

this pretty much sums it up...

Nice sounding philosophy, but don't we all use tech so we don't have to do as much and also to do more for us? And wouldn't sync allow you more time to get more creative with other things?

How many people here still cart a few crates of records to a gig and how many people use cues on their hard drive? These are things that none of us need be we use them to do more and also so we don't have to do as much.

the whole concept of dvs is not to do as much.

record lifting/carrying
cue points
start on cue or at beginning of record
being able to use loops(instead of flipping loops manually between 2 records)
dont have to be as accurate with your hands in rel instead of abs

loop roll(slip mode) is the only thing that you cant really do with 2 decks and records. not sure if that qualifies for 'doing more' but a cool feature.

Auto Gain too. It's there in the background and most of us forget all about it.

So many things demanded more time though when I started, from choosing which records to take with me, to finding the next records at the gig, finding the first bar on the record, or the bit you wanted to play from, to trimming the gains, to beat matching, to remembering where the right break to mix from is, to finding that sample to scratch with. It was all more taxing on the mind and memory and kept you a lot busier.

Serato now makes this child's play.

Please show us a demonstration of yourself using this SYNC feature to "get more creative with other things"...

It's purely hypothetical at the moment man, given I haven't adopted sync yet, but it's based on the assumption that Sync is instant beat matching vs non machines needing a few seconds to lock in the pitch manually, at least for a long set of un predetermined track selections.

It stands to reason that that would give you more time to play about with scratches, effects or whatever....

But how do you feel then about rocking your CDJ's at a gig? Do you feel that you're cheating using them?

The reason i'm bringing it up is because for about 10 years or so when they were first introduced into mainstream DJing culture here in the UK in the early 90's by the likes of Roger Sanchez and other early adopters, most of the old school all said that using those was cheating, but gradually over time many people just started to accept them as an integral part of DJing, even though the technology also started advancing to make using them less of an art form by making them easier to mix with, at least for many people to use. There will always be people that will never accept them though and say that using them is cheating and I know people that say i'm cheating when I use Serato, even though they know I can play an entire set with regular vinyl too, so i'm just interested in your view of where the line lies between cheating and not cheating?

Disclaimer: CD decks were used before the early 90's too, but mostly by karaoke DJ's, Radio stations and other people not too concerned about mixing tracks together, or gaining a reputation as an artist.

If you are not playing in Absolute Mode then technically you are cheating.

The level of how are are cheating varies.Cue Points, BPM, Visuals, Loops, Dicers, Midi Devices.

Now please get off of your high horses and stop this nonsense.

i could be wrong, but isnt dj'ing technically cheating?

*popcorn ready
*waiting for M-Bezzle

+1

(i guess more throwing hands in the air and twisting those heavy filter knobs)

Lol - carrying crates?

There is a huge difference between a PERFORMANCE and the work it takes to set up equipment.


Yes, high ing a rodie is cheating - you must carry all of your own gear or its 'cheating'.

Fucks outta here

Nm

Amen!

Cheating at what? Being an excellent 'vinyl purist' - ok guilty.

Now what?

Nm

Does a few second pitch tweak warrant being classed as part of the performance, or is it just a means to get to the performance part, same as say a hot cue?

What's the difference in Scratch Live in Internal Mode & Serato DJ minus the sync feature?

Just trying to reason the philosophy being the sync button being the most hated thing in mixing, like it somehow gives people superpowers when all it actually does is speeds up a workflow by a few seconds.

it is by no means a part of a performance, it's just a behind the scenes kinda thing that only a dying few care about.

Back in the day, the only thing stopping anyone from becoming a dj was being able to beatmatch. I knew guys that had been playing for years and still couldn't get it. Now that this requirement has been removed, well.... you tell me what the scene is like these days.

It's traditionally the foundation of the artform. Using stickers for "cue points" and such was more advanced, but that feature on it's own hasn't caused the influx of noobs. It's like telling hockey players they don't need to learn how to skate anymore. Now you have a bunch of meatheads out there firing off slapshots all day.

Ok that's fair enough man. That's a valid point and I can respect that. I also had your mentality when things started getting a whole lot easier.

I'd also point out that I came from that back ground of having to learn to mix on my own, spending anything up to 10 hours mixing a day for months before I started playing local parties, then later being offered a 2,000 people venue.

Yes it was hard work, but now that cd's and computer software has entered the arena, bpm's down to a tenth can make anybody learn that a whole lot faster.

It really all depends on what you consider to be a "performance".

If you consider standing next to a computer dancing and posing a 'performance' - fine.

Nm

My paintings are much better now that I switched from using a paintbrush to a using a camera.

Haha, you haven't seen my dancing :D

...but, it's still hypothetical at the moment, because i've spent 23 years tweaking that pitch like the rest of you. I'm contemplating my next step.

.....but i still have time to chat, drink, try out stuff in the cans and monitors and perform.

Class tune as your avatar, the kinda shit i'd play. I respect you more already.

And we both know syncing will never work with tracks like.

Geez I finally try some smart ass internet sarcasm and this is the response I get. :)

still waiting for a single example of this

You can use cues to do more than you can with limited tech, see tone play

I disagree, everything you mentioned, if used properly, can be used to do MORE instead of less

this

LMFAO!!

lmfao!!

it basically works both ways.

you could have cue points on vinyl and flip between them. or you could just punch some buttons and do the say things. thats easier

or you could use the buttons to do the masturbatory transitions known as tone play. thats probably harder.

sure that works both ways.....theres no both ways to sync, it allows you not to mix, it docent add ANYTHING, there is no such thing (as of yet at least I'm still waiting) to "creatively" use sync....it ONLY allows you to be lazy

awesomegifs.com

i3.kym-cdn.com

I am going to get a lot of shit for this but here I go! I am using Traktor's Z2 mixer along with Traktor Scratch Pro 2! With the mixer I can play analog or digital with a press of a button! I can also switch it up and be analog in deck A and digital. In deck B. I have been DJing for almost 8 years and about 6 of those years I was analog only. I didn't get into digital till about a year and a half ago. I still prefer analog over digital any day! The question being presented is like asking if digital DJ'n is real DJ'n! For me, sometimes the sync button is helpful but if I already know the tracks, I won't use it. Tomato, tomoto!

Such as when

Such as you just started last week and have a huge gig.
nm

hahahahaha

Some of you guys debating about sync are coming from a technical mathematical representation. Yes it would be easier to use sync, it would also be easier to have the computer just mix the songs for you, all you have to do is choose the falling songs. I'm sure there's already a jukebox type app or someone is working on one that will do that.

DJing is a culture, it's an art form and we should celebrate their skill, wether it's important to the outside world or not. It's our culture we dictate and police ourselves. There is always someone usually new or is just too logical trying to make things easier, Velcro grip tape for skateboards, handbrake for snowboarding, webbed glows for surfing, faders that cut for you....etc. (sorry these are examples of sports and cultures I've been a part of for most of my life.) And there's always the lazy or practical person that will buy into it and try and try to pass it off as it helping.

In the end, these products or concepts were not accepted because it's core users would not accept it. The term poser was coined for a reason. Honestly if mixing to beats together is so easy, then why even have a sync option. Why, because when you are actually mixing songs with scattered Bpm's, it still takes some skill. Easy to a vet, but most newbies and bad Djs can't do it without trainwrecking.

There has been many technical advances in skateboarding, surfing,snowboarding....etc. one example would be skateboarding, ollying (making the board jump) is easy, I can do it in my sleep and so can any other skateboarder. But it is the basis and a major foundation that is a necessary skill for a lot of the other tricks. There have been countless inventions (usually thought up by someone that doesn't skate) trying to eliminate this basic skill and have not succeeded. Kids that don't know how to Ollie can do some tricks, but they look horrible and is limited to the parking lot. From learning to Ollie, people learn board control, timing, build leg strength, how to judge speed....etc. Also some of the best tricks or greatest feeling tricks to do is just a big simple stylish Ollie. Similar to seeing someone seamlessly mix a slew of records together.

Sync will be here to stay, just like training wheels. ( I use training wheels, because it gives me the ability to do other things, balancing on a bike is really simple and really not needed. I also prefer to wear a silver spandex suit because it's logically and technically best way to go.)

Use sync if you want to, will I respect you, probably not, especially if I don't know you or your skill set. Will the audience care, they will when a real Dj in the crowd calls you out and compares you to and iPod to others in the audience. (This is a side note, but quit using the excuse that only another Dj would care. If you any integrity you should care, they are your colleagues and can actually judge what you are doing. And if fooling and uneducated audience is what is important to you, then sir, you are a scoundrel.

Sorry, long reply on my iPhone and somewhat lost my full thought. In the end do what you do, just don't be a scoundrel and pass yourself off as something else.

Actually, if you're using a computer, you're "cheating"...

Agreed. The hypocrites who use certain features but talk shit about others kill me.

Once again, theres a difference between an option that can be used to do more and an option that only subtracts from what you have to do. By using a computer I have access to more songs than I could even fit in a room on vinyl and i can get a new song thats not in my collection easily on the fly at a gig. These are things you COULD NOT DO on vinyl and can be used to ADD to the performance. Sync just matches two tempos together, not only could this be done without help, its done so easily. Im still waiting in a creative use for sync that cant be done without it.

It's a forever sliding slope...

At one time or another ALL of these used to be considered "cheating" but eventually were accepted....

Using a turntable with a PITCH control...Yes, there are DJ's out there who can mix with NO pitch adjustment...

Using another PERSON to hand you records in a sequential order.

Going from "Unmarked" records and remembering the label position, to marking on labels using magic marker...

Using stickers on labels that were vividly easy to see...

Using actual tape on grooves - (I could never bring myself to do that)...

Using breakbeats that had EVERY SINGLE SOUND you would ever need on one album...

Using "skipless" records...

Transfrom "buttons" / Flashformers

Using CDJ's...

Using mixers with BPM counters and effects, like flange, or echo...vs making the sound manually...

Using Straight Arm Turntables...

Keylock, +/- 100% pitch, reverse, stop, braking adjustments, fader curves, cut in, replaceable everything, keydetection, you name it...

And of course, DVS - Period.

Now there are varying levels of what's considered "cheating" WITHIN the DVS realm....

Really?

C'mon, do they even see how far this has come?

^^^^Thank you!

Man look, MOST would run like scurred lil' girls if given a setup like this and some vinyl...

www.djjohnnym.com

This is what will happen. Watchwww.youtube.com

Hahahah... Bring it... It will be fun :)

Nm nh nb

hey that rig was the $hit when i first started i wanted one soo bad lol great pic.

There is no pitch control on that there rig...

I played a show with Afrika Bambaataa a couple years back and about halfway through his set, he just started picking out tracks on serato and let his roady mix for him...

Now that's sync.

All you can do is cut on that thing there's no mixing except perfectly bum matched records...

Bpm^

So you think there was "cutting" back then?

Yes, they're RIM DRIVE, which would be great for torque, but nobody was really using slipmats back then.

So the DJ YES, had to plan his mixing both up and down the BPM scale based on songs that were very close in BPM's if he wanted to mix, or do a slam if he wanted to change tempos drastically, then work his way back up (or down) the BPM scale.

So yeah, DJ'ing with a computer vs. this?

Which is requiring more skill from the onset?

you have a point those where used strictly for cueing and playing set your cue back it up and hit go lol...

No, some people were talented enough to MIX.

Hell, I did ...

The hardest part was finding songs that were very close in BPM range...

Nice to see a few reasoned responses from knowledgeable people that have a deeper understanding of the history and culture than I do and can think outside their own egos.

Thanks to the pioneers that paved the way, I had better equipment than most of them and I expect most on this forum and thread had better gear when they started than I did when I started.

LOL! Don't get it twisted, my ego can be HUGE, but you HAVE to give credit where credit is due...

Most cats don't get that.

You have no cred to give

You damn right...

No HANDOUTS to anybody....

Earn your keep around these parts...

LMAO @ Jazzy Jeff not winning A World DJ Supremacy Battle..

lol talk about not giving credit where credit is due...

Shame on you son.

As a bystander, this argument is starting to feel like the ol' "When I was your age, I used to walk 5 miles in 8 inches of snow barefoot"... its becoming trite and almost obsolete.

Yes, there is an incredible amount of skill required to be able to beatmatch without any aid and seamlessly put together a set that way. However, isn't that just one of the "specializations" or skill sets that one can (and probably "should") master when trying to become a DJ? Beatmatching, IMHO, has become more of a checkbox rather than an absolute requirement, and in general has become an attribute that really only people "in the know" / other DJ's really care about. I think I read a response here that went along the lines of "well if you're here to deceive an audience then shame on you". Dude - you must really hate magicians.

There's obviously two sides to this argument: the audience's perspective and the DJ's perspective. I'd be curious to see if someone were to stand outside a show and survey the crowd - how many people would say "yeah I was totally blown away by his beatmatching". The average person goes for the overall experience, and to be honest, it doesn’t really matter what people “in the know” necessarily care. As much as you might be able to analyze and breakdown every technical aspect of someone’s set, most people can’t. Most people are there for the music, the crowd, the ambience – and all of those things can be controlled by a DJ with a sync button. If you think this is detrimental to the industry – try convincing any club promoter, bar owner, festival promoter etc that you’ll be able to provide a sellout crowd of ONLY people who only come to pay attention to perfect beatmatching and then follow through with it. Good luck.

I think the sync button has done amazing things for the industry - think about it, it completely flattened out the learning curve for becoming a “DJ”. Yeah at first it might seem like a bad thing, but in truth its only helped the industry evolve. More competition pushes people to refine their skill. Sure, there’s 17 year olds who sit in their bedroom and call themselves DJs and have their sync buttons on permanently, but what does it really matter? Are you REALLY losing sleep over these kids? If anything, these are the kids you should be encouraging because they ARE your audience. Anybody with some cash in their pocket can buy some kind of controller that will get them to start “learning” how to become a DJ and that’s a GOOD thing for you all. Sync has brought down a major barrier to entry into this market, and you guys are benefiting from it because now you have people who want to be you and will only appreciate your skill that much more. The more you can relate to people the more they become interested in you, and you get them to relate to you by at least pulling back the curtain a little bit and making them feel like they can do it as well.

So I think what it comes down to is the following: should people who use sync be able to call themselves DJs? I think so. There’s more to “DJ’ing than proper beatmatching. Does using sync mean they will be a SUCCESSFUL DJ? Absolutely not. Ultimately though, the guys who get gigs at bars, clubs, signed by labels, or even tour internationally will get there because they've earned their way one way or the other. You’d like to think that most of these individuals can beatmatch perfectly but you know that’s not the case. A simple google search for some of the big name artists out there will show you just how many of them use this functionality – yet are incredibly successful in their fields/genres/whatever.
I’ll leave with this – I didn’t take the time to find the video of him using sync but I’m sure you’re all capable internet users if you’re really that interested, especially after reading this long rant.

doandroidsdance.com

Ok I’m ready for the backlash.

sorry for the double post

so you are in favor of completely automated DJing? and miming to premade mixes?

Nm

As part of the post serato and newbie controller dj era, sync although nice from a technical stance, is just a really bad habit to have and can and will if it is the only way one djs become a dependence. Its understandable that the path of least resistance is the one most people take, so why people do it is understood. But unless you strictly play genres which are friendly with sync your not gonna do much expanding. Start messing around with tracks and sync isnt cooperating then the person will be displeased and not venture. In my experiences with it it hasnt been a benefit at all and it just made djing feel lifeless very fast, also the fact that alot of the music i play fluctuates bpm there was no way sync made sense. So way potentially lock yourself in that box all because you didnt want to take the bit of time to manually learn to do something that is much more beneficial to you as a dj if in fact you are trying to take djing seriously and be taken serious as a dj. Sync in the end does more harm then good.

I'm not sure you guys understood at all what my points where. No where am I arguing that that sync is the way to go. Neither did I ever say that I was in favor of completely automated DJ ing or even miming - those are both assumptions youve made and gross generalizations that anyone who uses Sync is miming.

Just because you can beatmatch doesn't make you a good dj.

Totally agree that it is definitely a bad habit. I don't think you can truly be considered a great DJ if you don't know how to beatmatch. But then again, there are great beatmatchers out there who use sync.

@Akiem - don't mean to sound self righteous but you keep sounding like you're on some sort of high horse because you're a good beatmatcher. Surely you probably can beatmatch better than some of the kids out there who are touring internationally - but does that mean you've got the rest of the package to offer and compete against them? Have you watched the video I posted? Just because Luke uses sync doesn't mean he isn't talented.

Heres the thing, beatmatching takes time to learn and while your learning you pick up a lot of things that are on that checklist, bypassing the practice aspect and skipping straight to the big show actually hinders the performer in MANY more ways than just that one checkbox.

coming from the guy that plays 'house' at 128. how hard could that be. esp on cdjs or controllers.

How exactly has it helped the industry evolve in any way. Pay is at an all time low, talent is at an all time low, most of the culture has been eliminated. Please actually list the ways its good for the industry\helped it evolve rather than just making the claim.

I totally understand where you guys, as accomplished people within your crafts, might feel slighted when you have people calling themselves DJs when they haven't necessarily taken the amount of time and effort that you guys have put in to refine your skills. I get it - I'd be angry too if someone showed up one day and said "Yo I'm a professional at this and it took my x amount of years less than you".

But put that aside. My argument isn't that people should be using automated sets and miming. That is an absolute embarrassment to the profession and definitely insulting. Shame on those who do that. My argument is that sync has broadened the horizons for everyone and anyone who is interested in DJ'ing.

Anyone who is considered a professional should definitely be able to fulfill any of the skills that are expected or implied by that profession. Totally agree with that. Professional DJ SHOULD know how to beatmatch. They SHOULD. That doesn't necessarily mean they need to be excellent at it or do it perfectly every time.

I mean what happens when you hold that argument across other professions? Should Shaq not be considered a professional basketball player because he couldn't shoot a free through if his life depended on it? Do professional golfers run up and down fairways yelling at bystanders that they're not true golfers because they'll never shoot under par?

Cmon fellas - don't villainize people because they use sync. Most of those guys will probably never make it big anyway so whats the point in worrying about it.

it helped it evolve because anyone can dj better than they could normally.

i saw it with traktor. there were guys with ssl that couldnt dj AT ALL, that figured out how to with traktor. It probably made them really think about their playlists and grid the tracks they played, which is a good thing. most people using sync are open format guys anyway. it gets in the way, but if you are playing quantized electronic music at 120-140, they are just shortening the curve and allowing people to focus on the music and selection.

edit

most people using sync aren't open format guys anyway.

Sync is the future!

The so called purists will soon be loosing gigs to the sync'ers as their sets will sound bland in comparison.

New techniques are evolving / will evolve that cannot be done without it and a dj gains work from what he did not how he did it.

Beat matching is a skill anyone can learn and will soon be dead in the water
Music selection and creativity are the only 2 things that matter and are much harder to learn

Many djs that cannot do this well try to promote their technical ability to make up for their lack of critical skills and knock down anyone who they fear may outshine them.

false, that 17 year old syncing in his bedroom isn't paying to come to shows being a fan, he's sitting in his bedroom emailing all of your promoters and bar managers trying to convince them that he can do the same thing you are doing for free. Also enlarging the pool puts the power into the hands of the promoters\managers and takes away from the artists because a larger pool of selections means your more easily replaced, for better or worse. When back in the day the people who put legitimate work in could say hey Im good so I deserve respect and compensation, now a hiring entity can just put out a Facebook post and have countless unskilled kids offer to PAY to play

who?

lol awesome troll....but i can't pass it up.

NAME ONE!!

A) Shaq wasnt a horrible free throw shooter, but he was AMAZING at other things. If a guy got on stage and did a qbert routine perfectly but couldn't beatmatch i would be confused but id give him a pass.

B) The golfer probably would yell at someone and say they were not a true golfer if that person had just went to the pro shop before the match, bought a putter, and walked out of the crowd during the pro tour trying to hit the long ball saying that he hitting a ball is a skill anyone should learn so he shouldn't have to do it and he wants to win the cup.

I think one of the hurdles to get over in this argument is not lumping everyone into one category.
Cheaters or Not.

the advent of sync has opened up a massive list of possibilities for many djs. fact.
the advent of sync (along with other tech) has made it nearly instant to be able to put together a passable mix to a non-saavy crowd. fact.

but these are two completely different people using the same tool/crutch (see what i did there?)

as it stands right now on the whole, for your average DJ, the bar is LOW.
insanely low.

are there guys out there doing next level stuff with all this tech and software?
of course there always will be... just like there were guys doing next level stuff with 1200s and a 06.
theres always those guys.

but they are NOT the ones most people are talking about... not the ones that we see crazy youtube video of wild shit.

when people say "the cheaters" or "the sync DJs" its not ONLY the fact that they are contributing nothing but a playlist (and sometimes not even that) to their skillset.
its they are coupled with a list of DJ faux pas, back handed dealings and loose ethics.

personally i'm all for pushing the envelope.
if you are using sync and being innovative and creative to put together a dope set ill have no quams with that what so over... matter of fact ill probably sing your praise.

but sadly.
9/10 that is not whats happening on the streets (sure its happening on youtube)
its a dude standing there while the beatport top10 mixes itself while they try to turn a 130 pound test filter knob with 1 hand in the air overlayed with a hodge podge of effects that make the track almost discernible to your average sound like a broken fax machine.

but people often hide behind the merits of guys like Ean Golden, Shiftee and A-Trak to validate it... who have earned every merit they got by using the software combined with their years of knowlege and intuition to create.
where as, more often than NOT, people are leaning to sync because it is in fact a faster route to being the DJ at a spot.

how many guys JUST getting into DJing know ANYTHING about keys, turntablism, reading a room, measures... all these things that take a bit to learn...its not rocket science but its not the first thing on their minds.... its "how do I mix?"
oh, I dont have to? its done for me? then what else do i need to do except load the track and learn how to identify the 1 vs the 2,3,4.


so again.
2 different types of people. The Short-cutter & The forward-thinking DJ
the two should NEVER be mentioned together.

I'm not a troll, just dont go round thinking i'm awesome because i can do the basic skill of beat matching,

Unfortunately I dont have names for techniques that i use but I can add parts to songs in seconds, run 4 decks and do live remixes that would not have been possible without sync

Techniques like loop and cues have enhanced sets in the same way and can not be done with analog

PERFECT, well said

All of that can and has been don't without sync

*been done

rarely anyone uses more than 2 decks. why? because its very labor intensive. 4 decks? other than wanker EDM djs that have 4 cdjs for no reason and pure aesthitic(other than if they have them there in case a cdj break down), it is very difficult to do for a period of time. sync clearly is a game changer in that respect

I agree also so we are not that far apart just different ways of getting there

All has been done with decks as you said but it can be done tighter and quicker with sync which gives more possibilities and progression , you can juggle a beat with decks to create a loop but you can not bring in the next bit until you stop juggling, you can cue a track with stickers but you cannot jump to several different cue points instantly and on beat

Which has all of what to do with sync?

Sync is the next progression

Fixed

You can do this with practice to

You see it as a threat too?

Yes, i see lazyness and apathy as huge threats to allthings including cultures

Do you still start your car with a starter handle or do you use the easier key start then get on with the important stuff?

In both cases you still have to turn something to start it, you still have to steer by hand, you still control the accelerator by foot, and iny case you stillhave to shift manually.

Comparison FAIL

not really,
the starter handle is the 30 - 60 seconds adjusting the pitch
the key is the instant sync button

pretty good imo

A better analogy would be claiming your a professional driver but you dont know how to drive but thats ok because drivings easy what matters is knowing how to operate the AC and the radio

Also uf it takes you 30-60 secinds to adjust the pitch you either need to get off the forums and get back to practicing or quit because your not very good

so you only mix over 2-4 bars then?

Lmfao, yup you def need more practice

I'm assuming that was a typo because if you're trying to argue that someone who is a professional in their field yet can only fulfill one of their requirements about 50% over their entire career, then I'm sorry but that's just flat out wrong. My point here is exactly what you said following that - he had other skill sets that complemented his weaknesses.



That literally has absolutely nothing to do with what I was getting at. The fact you tried to even make that argument is ridiculous. Yeah it'd be absurd if some dude went out, took someones mixer, walked up to your booth and said he was as good as you because he can push a button. If that's what you're taking from this entire discussion, that I'm saying that example is completely acceptable, then you clearly need to read closer. You're a smart dude, cmon.





You keep asking to provide statistics yet you don't. Those are definitely considered general assertions without providing any backup evidence to them. Yes there is a general sentiment that people are getting undercut - but thats only a sentiment, show me the stats. I'm incredibly interested in seeing how the numbers have progressed or regressed in the last 10, 15, 20 years. And as for the culture - are you saying that the culture of manually beatmatching has been completely eliminated? because that is again a gross generalization as evidenced by the fervor of all the people that are arguing against sync. Elimination and irrelevance are two completely different things. BUT AGAIN don't misinterpret what I'm saying and think that I'm arguing that beatmatching is no longer important. IT IS and PROFESSIONALS should be 110% accountable for being able to do so...that doesn't mean that the average person is going to care that they can. And if you say that it doesn't matter what the average person thinks about manual beatmatching - then why are you complaining about not being paid as much and not getting as many gigs as you used to. If you were really into this purely for the love of the sport, you'd be just as happy doing this for yourself at home and having a perfect technique rather than trying to get gigs out there and playing for others with the intent to have them enjoy themselves. I'm not arguing that your skill is irrelevant and unimpressive. I'm saying the opposite, it is and I get that it takes time and effort. That isn't being disputed here.



Again all you're doing here is classifying anyone who uses sync as being completely lazy, apathetic and a threat to all things including cultures. Its clear here that the problem, like Joshua said, is in your definition and classification of what sync means. I'm surprised you're not arguing that people who find music online shouldn't be considered DJs since back in the day you used to have to physically go to music stores and sort through records.



Having said that @M.Bezzle I'm glad you actually were open to Joshua Carl's argument. That was really what I'm trying to get at and maybe I phrased it poorly. I'm especially glad he mentioned Ean. He's a perfect example of somebody that can see both sides. I've seen him go through a set without touching sync and do some crazy shit with sync. Did he "need" to use sync...probably not. But then again would he be able to go through this routine with turntables and a mixer...probably not. Is it cheating now that he's using a digital controller that has helped him get creative in different ways? There's no denying his skill, and it is hard to argue that its not interesting to watch him go through routines like this.

Watchwww.youtube.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

Insults show ignorance and inflated egos.
If you cant open your mind to the possibilities then thats your problem
If the early pioneers had such a closed minds you would not be mixing the way you mix now.

If teenage kids are using sync to do basic mixing then how does that effect you, whats your problem?

If others are using new technology for progression how does that effect you?

I am just stating a fact that sync will be the future, like it or not, you dont have to use it and it will not effect you

The fact that you took my comment saying that if it takes you 30-60 seconds or riding the pitch toix 8 bars as an insult and not fact if the matter shows inexperience and insecurity

Instant gratification is a mug.

I prefer not to ride the pitch, If i can hear it drifting so can others

Ive said it before and ill say it again, you cant just keep pointing to the top 1% of the people in tje craft to prove something right. For every ean gold or craze there are hundreds if not thousands of djs stinking up the place just using sync to crutch thru anight they shouldnt be at anyway

That statment clearly shows you dont have the skillsir understanding to be in this conversation and kinda proves my point about people who think sync is the future

Why can't you keep pointing to the 1% - thats just absurd. Without the 1% then you'd be 100% true and this wouldnt be a discussion at all. that's why theyre called outliers and thats exactly what Joshua was saying. For every Ean theres 9 shitty 17 year olds. But at the end of the day, its the Eans that push the envelope. How do you not see what I'm getting at here?

No im saying the attitude of the individual I posted that to is the problem, not syncers in general. I can understand sync as a tool but to claim its "the future" shows a lazy arrogant reliance that wont get anyone far.

As far as physical records, i wont say people who use digital music arent djs BUT as someone who attended clubs, raves, and events PREdigital music I will say that the evenrs were more fun and unique when EVERYONE didnt have access to the same songs. Having a dj like icey come to NOLA and play records noone had access to made it thrilling and you picked what club you attended by which dj could get the record first.....now everyplace plays the exact same shit, its not nearly as exciting

Yes one person is pushint an envelope and 100 people are pulling it back....and you call that an evolution?

How is it ridiculous when it happens on this forum on almost a weekly basis, literally almost once a week some knucklehead will post that he JUST got a controller and wants to know how to get booked. He gets flamed but low and behold a month later theyll pop back up with gig footage, gigs that they played for free (horribly)

And my point is 99% of djs using sync DONT have any skills to complement their weakness

Easy, when i was getting started guys in my scene were making $400 $500 a night doin club gigs, now your lucky to get $50. Ask ANY user on this forum who has been gigging 10+ years wether the average pay (or offer to play) has gone up or down and see what they say.

I AM more than happy doing this at home, so much so that I would like to make a living doing so without having to sit at a 9-5 all day NOT doing what I love. Beyond that Im in love with the culture of Djing and that culture does not get spread with me sitting at home perfecting the craft while a kud who got their rig last week crawls through a beatport 100 playlist

Please show me some stats supporting that.



Its ridiculous that you're directing that argument at me because I'm clearly not arguing for this. Honestly I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here and keep repeating this over and over again. I'm not defending these shitty kids, I'm arguing for you guys to not classify EVERYONE who uses sync as a fucking terrible abomination and a sorry excuse for a human being. You just can't make a blanket statement like that because there is that "1%" that you refer to.



I agree with you in terms of the attitude of that individual and the implications behind what he says, especially because I've never once made an outlandish claim that sync was the future.

As for the nostalgia of having new music, i see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure i agree that it doesnt exist anymore. You can't argue that digital music hasn't expanded the industry in general. its literally exploded over the last 15 years because it is accessible to everyone. And being that it is accessible to everyone, and new tools are invented every day, there are literally millions of different iterations of the same song out there. Does it mean theyre all good? absolutely not. but purely looking at it from a statistical point of view, the chances of you finding and hearing a new song EVERY DAY have exponentially grown since then. You no longer have to wait for someone to tour through your city to hear that one song you find amazing. you literally have that power at your fingertips now. how is that not evolution?




Again you're only providing opinions and personal experience which is hardly enough to say this has happened industry wide in the US let alone the whole world. I think the point here is that unless there's a vetted industry research report out there, this point will never be truly proven wrong or right. Sure maybe it's true that people who respond to this are people that have experienced it? But is that because its been a plague for everyone, or because the one's who are getting paid just as much and being offered more gigs aren't really complaining about that? And as for a question of whether or not those kids getting asked to play more and getting paid more are indeed talented or not - what objective and tangible evidence do you have to prove either way?

We're talking in circles here and its clear that there's really no budging you. I think there were moments where it seemed like you kinda see where I'm getting at, but its clear that this goes far beyond just an appreciation for the skill and starting to get into more personal territory. Something clearly happened to you and whether you've been upstaged by some talentless 17 year old out in Mobile, or you've had some personal confrontation with bar/club owners regarding your fees, then thats just something I can't really help.

To be 100% clear:

1. I believe that professional dj's should be 110% accountable for beatmatching. does that mean every professional dj out there does it? no.

2. using sync is not a sin. its obviously lowered the bar and yeah there may be kids out there performing horribly. But if thats the case, why do you even bother taking the time out of your day to listen to and/or care about them. that's your own fault. be proud of what you can do and know that you're more talented than they are bc as i've said multiple times already those skills are truly impressive and not everyone can do them.

3. if you are trying to spread the culture, rather than villainize anyone who uses sync, why not use it as an opportunity to spread what you believe in. sync has helped people get in the door and if you truly are passionate about this you would use it to your advantage rather than isolate and marginalize all those people. this is all completely counter intuitive to the whole "culture of dj'ing" as you said. Music and dj'ing are both arts. they're meant to be inclusive and theyre meant to be shared. don't put boundaries up and try to cast people out of it because they dont know better. instead you should educate them and HELP them understand how important it is. you really shouldn't be taking music as seriously as you're doing it right now. its meant to be enjoyed not fought over. you're passionate about it, i get it so am i. but don't try to close people out from the opportunity of being able to enjoy it only because all they can do right now is ride on training wheels.

later.

And i clearly stated that comment was directed at someone who used those exact words. Thats the problem with you guys who use sync you dont distinguish your self from others and you get buthurt over shit that got nothin to do with you

Would you feel better if i clearly said the 99% of talentless sync users...well you shouldnt because i have yet to see you post anything showing your not in that 99%

Lets get something clear here because its become apparent that even Residents in the Premier Club of Mobile aka the cream of the crop, don't seem to be understanding something here.

My argument isn't for myself. I don't need to prove anything because you're just frankly not my competition.

My argument here is to try and push back general ignorant sentiments from people like you which has obviously proven to be impossible.

Keep doing what youre doing in that premier club in mobile

Because it takes away from the thrill of being excitef to see that artist come through. Thats the problem with you kids now adays (old man rant) you dont appreciate the value of rarity making an event special. Also I dont particularly enjoy finding a gem, playing it at a show, then the next night half the ithrr djs in the city are playing it.

Though on this particulat issue i will say its a good with the bad senario, im in no way saying digital musics all a bad thing, but the act of physically finding and obtaining music is a skill thats been devalued

lolz

mobile, new orleans, jackson, pensacola, birmingham, destin, panama city beach, and soon to be atlanta if we're keeping track but who cares cause like you said, your not competition to me

by some, not all. every real dj knows they have to have an extremely deep library(in multiple genres) and they know they have to do it or have the same tracks as anyone else.

Agreed

Well now you are doing what you said I did because I never said being able to beatmatch makes you a good DJ. Didn't say it, and don't think it's true.

Now, the reason I ASKED are you in favor of completely automated DJing is because all the same arguments in favor of sync can (will and have been) used in favor of the rest of the 'features' required for complete automation.

So I will ask again; are you in favor of completely automated DJing?

And the reason I asked if you are okay with miming to a pre-made mix is there are some very well paid DJs out there who do exactly that - pretend to be controlling the music while actually doing nothing - but according to your measure its fine becuase they are paid well.



I am on a high horse. But not becuase I am a good beatmathcher, I'm not even the greatest. But I am on a high horse, a white one and I look like Gandalf riding around telling hobbits what to do. Does that mean I think I should be paid more than Luke, get his tours or crowds? No. And the reason has NOTHING to do with sync - you are just trying to make some bullshit up here. And it's always the SAME bulshit people who advocate sync always make up - but that guy is making lots of money and he uses it. So. The. Fuck. What?


I see you have lots of verbiage to deal with since my last post so don't bather answering fella.

I sure wish they had sync for turntables. I would use it.

If sync didn't exist, most of these so called new DJs would have never taken the steps into this field.

But that's just how I feel.

If not being able to do something right the first time you try, or having to work at something keeps you from doing it then you dint have a true passion for it

Agreed.

Dont all be so angry about it, sync will be the future without doubt thats just the way tec moves, maybe it will take five years or a generation but you wont stop it, it will just be part of the standard equipment.

I dont personally care if it is or not but its bound to happen

Let me clear one thing up, if you know how to beatmatch and your scratchin and blendin and puttin on a show and you hit sync, more power to ya. My issue is with its prevelance and acceptance future generarions will be ushered into itand forgo basic building block skills. Im not about removing obsticles to let everyone in because if an obsticle keeps you out you didnt have the passion anyway. And if your passion is just music then pay you $5 at the door and listen to music with the rest of the people who couldnt cut it

Akiem : auto mixing and tune selection will be another feature available but think that will only catch on in small bars, people like to see and interact with a dj, no genuine dj would use these features other than perhaps while a place fills up,
as being a dj is about having your own personal style in the tunes you play and the way you mix them.

I'm not having a dig at what your saying just thats what I personally believe

Do you not think that the ones that are passionate about it will not develop new skills with the tools available? because that is what has happened in all walks of life throughout history

Taking away learning processes is not a goid way to stimulate inivation or progress

See this right here is the problem, no GENUINE dj would use them BUT these features allow NONGENUINE djs to walk in the door.

Alot of you are operating on the assumptions that only real djs with passion want to be in stage, the reality is almost everyone in the crowd wants to be a dj but not because they give two shits about music or culture, its just the need to be the centrr of attn or get girls. Sure people like this dont last long but the easier you make the craft andthe less skill is involvd the more and more of these guys are gonna be the guy djing when you go to have a drink on an off night or are opening for you fucking the night up.

yup, and


Well I can tell you from experience you are mistaken.

How is 'auto-mix' or 'auto-select' stoping a DJ from interacting with the crowd? And why wouldnt a "genuine dj" who has the computer beatmatch for him use those features? They are the same type thing, the computer is doing something for you - so you have more time to do 'other' things.

How would you even know a DJ is just playing what the computer suggests?

And why would a DJ want to bother with pushing the fader if the computer can do it for him?

Sync is exactly like these other features (maybe not to you personally) but to the profession and the culture at large - same shit.

There are people asking for a song suggester, and auto fader, and all the rest of the crap which will result in a completely automated system.


There was a reason Serato removed the catch phrase "the computer doesn't DJ for you" or however they worded it for their marketing material. People assumed thats what was happening. When the charges of Serato wrecking 'vinyl culture' came out they did something about it to make clear they wernt about destroying vinyl and in the end probably did a lot to preserve vinyl. But in this case I think they dropped the ball by not sticking to their guns and not developing this garbage which does in fact do some of the DJing for you.

Im going to answer Joshua Carls post later when I get a chance.

Right now I have to go manual drive a car through the blizzard wishing I had one of those new fangled auto drive vehicles to do it for me.

I will play the devil's advocate. By using sync, you can launch loops and samples that are quantized and at the same tempo as the record that is currently playing. This allows you to be much faster in juggling loops and samples without initially having to take the time to make sure that your loops/samples are at the same tempo as the song that is playing live.

To put it simply, sync can save you time and make you more creative on the fly in your mix by SAVING you the extra step of quickly matching the tempo of loops/samples.

Look at this video by Dj Shiftee where he uses it to launch samples and it allows him to be waay more creative using traktor ------> Watchwww.youtube.com

in the video, Notice that:
ALL the loops and samples he launches are SYNCHRONIZED to the record that is playing live. But as you can see he can still do all that beat juggling and other turntablist tricks EVEN IF his samples are being launched in sync, thus ALLOWING him to be MORE creative. So there's you proof that SYNC enhances creativity ONLY WHEN USED IN THE RIGHT WAY though.

I love how cats like to put sync in a class of its own its not. ALL that sync does is match the 2 tempos of the playing songs and that's it. You still have to do the nudging and the PHRASING in order to get it right. That's why so many noobs don't know how to phrase properly, sync cant do that for you.

Man look, we have cats who go to the clubs with NO HEADPHONES and all they do is read off the BPM counters and match the waveforms. Is that cheating or an advancement in technology? ANYONE who uses the waveforms to their aid is as guilty as anyone who uses sync. Because you can just look at the waveform and judge on the flow of a song. And if you tell me that "Oh using waveforms or cues or loops makes you do things you couldn't do", then also using SYNC makes you ADVANCE your performance and do things that you couldn't do.

LMAOO!! im pretty sure all the music in your library is at 128bpm, right? lol

- At the club playing to a crowd who just wants to be taken on a journey of their favorite music, go ahead and break into a DMC routine, that shit wont work

- Get on stage where the crowd is expected to SEE a performance and all you do is select nice tracks, that shit wont work ether

- Now we have another performance style I call it "live productions" taping beats, playing keys, launching samples, remixing and whatever else "button pushing" - and again this might not fly where the others are expected.

generalizing, sure there is overlapping and guys doing all three or more styles....

The issue here is it looks like people are calling techniques like clip launching 'sync', or even 'loop roll' as some sort of 'sync'. Not the case. Take clip launching in Ableton OF COURSE the sample should automatically match the BPM and lock to the grid. That is not what we are talking about. Yes, you can use clip launching to play entire songs and so on. You can also tap out a drum beat by tapping cues (I do it all the time)

So I think there is a confusion of terminology and purpose at play.

For example I do not have a problem with 'loops' or effects being bpm locked, or the SP6 "syncing" to a track. These are quite different functions from 'auto-syncing' two tracks. The FOCUS and really the only thing this feature does is beat match for you. Clip launching is something else entirely and NOT on a path to complete automation.

Pretending 'sync' on a DVS is like a DAW or headed in that direction is false, its simply not and wont ever be. In that regard I think a DAW from Serato would be quite dope - but just adding 'sync' is not that.

If you are trying to use four decks with sync like a DAW, why not just use Ableton in the first place? Other wise, 4 decks will eventually not be enough.

Pretending sync is anything other than made to let unskilled dudes pull of a mix is just slightly dishonest.


I dont see where the sync is being used.


Joshua Carl


If you are calling 'sync' everything from 'loop roll' to 'clip launching' - I agree.

But I dont think thats the 'sync' people are objecting to.





okay - I mostly agree.

But here is the thing - 'sync' is meant to be a crutch. Exceptionally skilled people can take a crutch and do fantastic shit with (or without it). So in general practice it is just a crutch, as it is meant to be.

A professional piece of equipment should not have a crutch on it.



The negative effect of this 'feature' (tho some are pushing limits) is becoming understood. Maybe we can learn the lesson and STOP automating our equipment. Sync should have been the line not crossed - whats next?

There is no argument against the other automatic features now. There is no reason to not build a software the does EVERYTHING for you. The only question will now be - how well can it outperform the human?

Things like this are kinda what Im talking about. Beatmatching may be basic but it IS a talent that takes alot of time to really get down. Bypass the learning portion of this ability bypasses alot if time that had you have been learning to beatmatch you would have also been learning keys, phrasing, ect ect. Thats why when you look at djs who come on this forum using sync, cough DJRU DJRU cough, they post a gig mix a year after posting and they havent improved AT ALL. Why should they, they arent listening to their mix, the computers doing EVERYTHING but picking the song so all theyre learning is how to pick songs

its just hard to have a conversation, online as well, for anyone to have to put asteriks on every single potential point.

IE

Sync is wack*
Sync is Cool **






*= unless your someone like shiftee, or your not using it as a crutch or otherwise defined by preceeding posts.

**= if your just starting out and you need a bit of help figuring out the basics ***

*** = no scratch that, you should learn the manual way first, pref on real vinyl ****

****= but you cant snub the advents of technology and the future of the artform ***^^

***^^ = But when the computer takes over its no longer and art form, its AI and the computers interpetation of 01101101010101010101010100001111100100 **@@:

**@@: = Ke$ha - Timber.

LMAOO!! Truth truth 101...

watched that again and didnt see where the 'sync' was being used

ok ok... lets turn the whole thing around.. Can any of the purest explain...

Why are you the better or real or non cheating DJ's when they are able to match two tracks in the same tempo and put the first beats of a bar together.. That is ALL sync does, and honest truth anyone with the tiniest bit of musical feeling can learn this.

Sync does not...
- Match patterns, choose the perfect entry or exit point, crazy transitions, scratches etc..
- Pick those perfect tracks, build that perfect energy, make that perfect mix
- Give your audience a great night and keeps them dancing
- Books you gigs, promotes your gigs, organize gigs

So how could one really justify that anyone that does the above perfect but for whatever personal reason goes with today's technology and occasionally uses the sync instead of that little overrated step of pulling the tracks together, is a 'cheater'.

I think that actually says much more about the person calling the other a cheater than it says about the sync user.

*ducks*

Bam used to do something similar with Burzootie (Jazzy Jay) back in the day, he would give Jazzy records to play and point out where the breaks were.

which begs the question. why have it?

That's like telling me I can have a midget tie my sneakers for me everyday
why bother, its SO easy I can do it myself.

not to discredit the comedic value of a midget that pulls on your pantleg everytime your about to put shoes on of course,

LMAO!

So I can play flappy bird .. duh.. and the whole neighborhood love the midget. I rent him for parties and such :P

But for real, but that's for me personally, I play techno and more underground type of electronic music. In this genre there are so many releases that I truly don't know most tracks in detail that are in my crate. So I rather spend my time searching for that record that fits the flow I am in. And yeah if the grid was analysed wrong, ill just do it manually just as easy. Its just workflow and I really give very little value to doing it manually or automatically.

Sidebar
as an old techno hound. one of the best pieces of advice i got was to almost insanely label your tracks with descriptions.

I have so many Primate, 20/20,
Phuture Wax and Rush records that are labeled with "slow build, lots of percussion, big break mid track, latin flavor, works well with Jesse Garcia or Monika Kruse"

If you do all that "perfectly" and you use sync "occasionally" i dont think anyone really gives a damn. But more often than not thats NOT the situation. The most common reality is a kid who has no real passion for the art who attends a festival or watches a dj khaled video and says hey i want that kinda attn too, so they go to GC, buy a controller, and start looking for gigs and when they get the gigs....not by being great at booking or organising gigs...but by telling a bar owner or a promoter theyll play for free and bring their extended family, they just stand there NOT scratching NOT doin any crazy patterns NOT doing great transitions and NOT phrasing well playing the beatport top 100 or the hottest new floor packing banger at 8:15 to three people all because they never took the time to learn a damn thing, and why should they when the option to bypass the learning procesd is there and theres a strong vocal communuty screaming at anyone who will listen that the skill they are bypassing is worthless anyway. Everything this new kid is meaningless because ean golden dosent need it.

Yeah that is a frustration I do understand, especially for you guys out there that make a living out of this.

But of course the question is would you want to work for a bar that goes for cheap instead of quality. And the kid.. well if he's not really passionate he'll soon get very bored with what he's doing.

Well lets examine this, sync is an extension of tech evolution, so how far should it be allowed to evolve and still be "ok". How about when an autoscratch feature is added, or a random transition button that will auto fade the track and transition in a way chosen from a list (backspin fade out slam slow mix fasrt cut) or allows audience feedback to choose the songs for you. How much automation do you consuder ok to replace since "anyone with the tinyest bit of musical talent can do it"

A) in my experience cutting cost and pulling stunts to increase profit/pull in customers is almost EVERY club/barvso thats a null point

B) Of course hell get bored but as it was stated earlier the goal to this tech is to make djing accessable tobEVERYONE so once hes bored finding a new manequin to prop up behind the decks wont be hard, just open the door and pull one off the street

...and replaced by two more thanks to the lowering bar.

There are many bars, at least here, which have machines, continuously updated from online sources, that allow the barkeeper to keep the music going pretty automatically. But that is nothing compared to a real human standing there. Techniques can be automated but the human creative factor, nahh.. I don't believe in that.

by human you mean bar tender?

No a DJ of course, the bar tender is slave to the machine.

i615.photobucket.com

...and so will the dj be

again, it kind of pulls back to the Advances of technology Vs. the Dehumanization of Art

Would you call the people that work for Dreamworks artists? They switched paint brushes and frame animation for 3d computer animation.

This is like auto pilot dumbing down the skills of pilots to fly manually when needed.
www.bloomberg.com


I am not dissing people who use sync and I use it sometimes but sync let's mixing skills get a little rusty but so does watching the waveforms on ScratchLive.

Nobody on DVS is a purist or keeping it real.

Sure but the people who use apps to make gifs and memes out if their films arent.

The big difference is switching from brush to computer allowed them to ADD to their art and do things they couldnt do before with old equipment and ill say it again sync dosent ADD anything that could not be done before, it just allows people who dont want to take the time to learn bypass learning. Sync for the most part is a subtractive technology

...more like paint and canvas artists switching over to the 'paint by number technique'

^ Bingo

I like how people always assume that just because you use a DVS you now have completely stopped using vinyl. I've been using Scratch Live since 07 and I still own and use my vinyl. There are a lot of songs that I still only own on vinyl and only play on vinyl. My record players still play records.

ive seen people not beatmatch at all and use a delay button all night long and still kill things.

ive seen people beatmatch flawlessly and phrase everything correctly and put people to sleep.

sync button can have a neg side, and it can be more of an broken crutch than a motorized wheelchair.

you're obsessed bezz. its just a sync button.

not as a purist statement, but beatmatching at its simplest form is part of being a dj
if all it does is matching tempo then do it
if people are more focused effects, phrasing ect..
then focus on studio rather then live

I say these things from a hip hop djs point of view,
I have no idea what EDM djs do, I have tried to watch them but its over my head as it just looks like a lot of technology at work.

I see it this way, if I had to go play at a place with sync I could easily
someone that grew up on sync and depends on it could not go to a place that didnt have a system that didnt have sync

you gotta remember, most of these people will never play on anything other than a computer, so sync will always be there. they aint got no records and the only other option is usb stick and cdjs. even cdjs have sync now.

e3fabhckvfadprm2.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com

thats a scary link

Watchwww.youtube.com

relevance?

.....''The time has come to push the button''...

Light hearted response to Akiem ;)

I PRESENT TO YOU,.......THE FUTURE!!!!

www.youtube.com

I applaud Akiem, Bezzle, Joshua Carl and all of the others trying to keep some integrity in our craft.

I understand some of you guys are trying to be Captain Save A Ho on sync. But it's not helping our culture to lower bar for entry. Equipment makers will cater (as we see some doing it right now) to the lower end of the spectrum and we as professionals will get the shaft.

The examples you guys post, Ean Golden…etc. is not what is happening out there. It's the joe shmoe that didn't have the ability to do a basic skill as matching two beats. Also the argument of selection as a skill set is Eh. I can tell you now, that my little sister is a better selector for her high school dance then you will be. She is not a DJ because she does not know how to seamlessly move from one song to the next (which is a good thing.) But if an automated system that you lazy DJ's (that claim beatmatching is so easy and can do in a split second) encourage, then you will soon be out of work.

My first experience with Sync was at the Expo a few years back. I believe it was on Traktor and Grid mode must have been activated, because I couldn't even drop the incoming song off beat. Then last year at Namm, where I witnessed people mixing songs 20 BPM's apart and not even and many songs that shouldn't be mixed. They did this because they could, why didn't have to think.

Just like anything else, if you're using technology to do something new and exciting, then you will be praised. But don't use technology to eliminate skill sets that you are too lazy to learn and pass it off as something else.

The purely Sync guys might put a few DJ's (ie people that just play bland machine sequenced music) out of a job, but not in the places I play, which love a mixture of old school funk, hip hop, breaks, boogie, dnb etc mixed in with the good underground new stuff, by clued up DJ's that don't need to pre program their sets for a more knowledgeable crowd. This style of DJing along with the turntablism guys needn't feel threatened by the sync button, as long as there's demand for those styles.

I see where a lot of you anti sync DJ's are coming from, but I also think there are a lot of DJ's with the anti sync mentality that have honed their craft in Serato and Traktor and not learnt to mix with real vinyl anyway, with no BPM counters or effects, no auto gain, no visible means to help you select your next track apart from having a vast knowledge of the genres from years of listening and playing, or with less familiar stuff from reading the sleeve and labels. Well most of those guys that are too reliant on the new software and hardware will struggle anyway if put in a room with just 2 turntables a mixer and some records, such is the ease that Serato Scratch Live has made mixing these days and if you think Sync will make it that much easier for myself and others that play a lot of live drumming tracks and other stuff with beats all over the place, well you're living in dreamland.

All you guys playing to the pampered demands of a top 40 loving crowd, well i'm not sure I care too much if a new sync enabled DJ comes in to replace you by undercutting you, as you're not the kind of DJ i'd want to see anyway. Those type of DJ's have always been ten a penny. Sorry if that offends any of you, especially if you've spent years learning how to mix properly, but that's just the way I see it.

The world isn't losing much if you are entertaining them by giving them exactly what they ask for instead of entertaining them by amazing them with a few long forgotten gems mixed in with more familiar stuff that you know they'd love, unless of course you're a wedding/occasions DJ, but that's a whole different ball game and skills set anyway.

And ANYONE that thinks tune selection isn't highly important and certainly more important than sync. Well, i'd rather listen to a programmed set by somebody that can't mix but understands what works together than somebody who doesn't understand how tunes can compliment another tune when played in a certain order, but can beat match perfectly.

Sorry, that does sound cold. I really wouldn't want anybody to lose their job. I'm just thinking that it's a tough world out there and if you haven't got more specialised skills than just beat matching, then you'd better have a good personality or friends that'll help you out.

.

I went from playing clubs to party venues,playing crap music that gets a big reaction but playing it in a creative way,mixing when most cats could not,I had a massive usp,then along comes virtual dj and these djs who had no idea how to mix could suddenley pull off half arsed mixes,half arsed to me and you but to pissed up punters and people who know little about mixing they were able to do similar to me.My usp has now gone down the toilet.

I sometimes use sync but most of the time mix manually cause I prefer it,fact sync is not going to go away ever.

So yes we can do really fancy transition and its far better than what noob sync reliant djs can do,but they can attempt mixing and that treads on my toes and yours but there's nothing we can do about.

Depending on venues we can set ourselves apart by other things sometimes mic use,also things like scratching whilst still keeping our mixing very high quality.

Instead of focusing on the problem how about focussing on the solution,I have tried till I'm blue in the face to try to get some debate going on here about what extra things for want of a better word tricks/usp's etc we can add to our shows to totally set us apart from the cheap sync reliant undercutting piss poor djs who are attemting to get work in the same marketplace that most of us work in.
Maybe I have not put it across correctly but so far nobody seems up for the debate or nobody has any solutions other than the comedy ones such as wear a mask lol.

I wonder how many others will own up to this fact. Some may see it as harsh with the world of things having to be far and easy for everyone. But its a reality that i hope doesn't go away which sadly at this point seems like it is. I wish alot of the music i play was available on vinyl so i can see how far i can get without the help that serato offers. Im forcing myself to play in library mode and i still like a little kid press the spacebar to take a peek at the waveform to mark a cue point or when i practice baby scratching a song in because i havent practiced enough to control my hand movements. Although my stance on sync is that it shouldnt exist and people should learn to beatmatch manually i understand the stance of the supporters. Some arguments are good in the sense of defense for your opinion. But not being able to see the unintended consequences that may come when sync is the only way the person chooses to go about djing then there is a problem. Sure there is a exception to every rule where sync may help a person easier understand the process of beatmatching and its workings and they end up manually beat matching. But when were in a society where the path of least resistance is the one being chosen by almost everyone in just about every facet of their lives sync just like many things that provide to much ease remove alot of important lessons and intangibles that are a big part of the main foundation of things.

Do you think the developers stopped working on sync once this version was coded. It will be improved and improved the more it is accepted and there will be a time when any noob off the street will be able to push a button and mix whatever wonky live drummer BS your playing with ease

And still we go round and round,None of these companies are going to remove the sync button,whether you use it or not its there its irrelevant.
Would be more productive to discuss the things we can do to obviously set ourselves apart from the sync reliant noob djs, Nobody seems to want to engage in that discussion either on here or another thread!

This was THE BEST post on the whole thread! Hey Akiem, I'm still using that old QTZ file you made me at a show here and there.

My 2 cents? Hmmmm .....

I do LOVE how all the guys that use/like SYNC refer to A-Trak, Shiftee, Craze etc. Hide behind them and what they're doing, when 98-99% of you aren't doing ANYTHING close to that. You are the ones that make me LOL so freakin' hard.

I used to say it (before I became one) like this: DJ's that didn't go crazy on some decks, showing skill vs passion, reminded me of people who wanted to be a musician but couldn't cut it or didn't want to take the necessary time needed to actually learn and develop the skills to play that intstrument. So they became a "DJ". That was way back when though (still does happen today too). The exact reason I don't go to DJ festivals, DJ concerts and other similar shows. Unless I'm going to go pay money to see someone like Jazzy Jeff, Mix Master Mike, A-Trak, etc to watch them shred some decks like a musician - I'd rather go see a real band or just perform myself and make money.

Now? Over the last decade I have REALLY seen musicians become DJ's. On top of that, those select groups of people came at DJ'ing like an instrument. Learn it, Play it, Rock it out. But more than that, they did/learned what was needed to develop actual skill. This is what intrigued me to pursue this career. Playing multiple instruments and seeing the shift in music culture go from booking live bands more than DJ's - to the EXACT opposite is what got me into this whole world. But I didn't look at it like - "Hey, DJ's get booked more than bands. I'm gonna play other people's songs now". My vision of DJ'ing was being an actual musician like I am. I would have NEVER got into DJ'ing if I thought it was all plastic rectangles with buttons and no skill. Sorry, but it's also such a cheesy look. "Hey there, I'm your DJ, even though there are no 'discs', check out my small plastic box". That should be SJ or BJ (song jockey/button jockey). Choosing songs is NOT a skill. The radio does it for you. Top charts do it for you. Facebook posts do it for you. etc etc. Being able to do more than push buttons, put hands in the air and choose songs you know are on the charts is what sets you apart.

I get booked more and more cause I don't like to push buttons, I don't put my laptop in front of my face, I don't show up with a plastic rectangle thats 24" x 12", I don't mix an 87bpm track with a 128bpm track that sounds like vocals are being spit out like Twista every time (this can keep running on with more examples). To say it's helping you save a couple seconds by using SYNC instead of DJ'ing is ludicrous. What the hell were you doing for those "couple" of seconds? Hahahaha!! Seconds right?

SYNC has it's place, for those that use it right. For sure!! I got a kick and lots of laughs off this thread. I'm not attacking anyone in particular at all. But if you are getting a little butt hurt off of this post, you're probably the person that IS using SYNC as a crutch and definitely NOT using it like A-Trak, Shiftee, Craze, etc. To whom you refer to and hide behind when this subject always comes up.

Sorry guys .... I was way bored and had nothing else to do, but post this long ass, un-needed, possibly controversial post. LOL

A good Dj should be able to match beats, good reader of crowds, have some sort of trickery and a basic knowledge of song structure. The bar has been set low enough, that some of you are happy to choose the lesser of the two evils. If you care about DJing as an art form and culture, you don't have to choose either.

You should be supporting Djs who are skilled at their craft instead of making up excuses for the ones that aren't. The people the sync supporters keep referring too are skilled Djs. I surprised at how many of you support Posers and make excuses for subpar skill sets. No not everyone deserves a trophy.

The Dj use to be respected, we have now become somewhat of a joke. There's not much to risk as far as the actual act of DJing goes, no chances of getting physically hurt...etc. but it still took practice to become good. If you can't do all of the other things sync supposedly allows you time for, then you might think about practicing more. Sync is a tool that should be used to further your craft if you choose too, as a lot of other things.

Not everyone deserves a trophy.

dope




I remember when you got automatic respect for being able to claim you were a DJ. If you were being honest it meant you put in work, you have some sort of knowledge, some sort of skill. Today it doesnt mean shit at all.

I am still waiting to see someone use sync for creative advantage. Ive seen a number of really dope DJ use it in routines which wouldn't suffer a bit WITHOUT using 'sync'. I am actually open minded about it and WOULD use it if I could see the advantage - but the only reason I see for using it is done naturally in Ableton where it belongs.

But for now - even tho the battle is lost - I will continue to complain to Serato about it in hopes they will understand the type of damage they are doing to the culture. <-- sincerely mean that and always have, they knew better at one point. Destroying the 'vinyl culture' pales in comparison to where it looks like these bottom line cheap features are headed.

nm

I will now present exhibit A

youtu.be


Just because you do not use a sync button does not mean you are good....lol

There are videos of all vinly sets train wrecking also. The whole Sync button discussion is whack just make good sets. And keep learning and practising to enhance your skill.

You don't have to use sync, cue points, BPM counter, auto gain, or waveforms. Just go straight Absolute Mode. Keep it real!

Nobody but other DJ's give a fuck.

Come on guys, aren't you getting a little bit to grim here?

AKIEM, Niro, judging by your profiles and websites you guys are both specialists in your trade. I'm pretty sure you are all very much respected for your skills, especially by those who care for the music, craft and the scene that you play in. You cannot be compared to, nor competed by DJ 'I got a controller for Christmas'. And yeah perhaps the general mass might have a different idea with the concept of DJing, but so what. Anyone with love for your music will recognize your skillset and respect you for that, that's worth much more than the opinion of the ignorant mass.

To me, it isn't about the opinion. It's about the fact the the whole art keeps degrading

nm

yes.

I also meet people all the time who never heard of me since Im not on TV. I used to introduce myself as a DJ, and now I dont. Might as well introduce myself as "Hi, Im possibly a no-talent-duche who recently purchased a piece of plastic"

Im not worried about the people who understand and respect what Ive done and what I do, and what I will do.

But as 6 just said, its about the entire artform being degraded.



DVS was the Renaissance for a while - part of that was the people creating the technology had some respect for the art - now they dont.

nm

Its a combination of both use the technology but know your history. Thats all.

Thats respecting the art.

I get what you're saying.

But isn't any art subjected to the work of lesser gods?

When I was 12 (some 24 years ago :P) I made 'mixtapes' with my double cassette deck. Pressing pause, changing the tape to find another song, pressing record again etc etc. Back than these tapes never made it further than my private collection but in this time and age they, how horrible they might have sounded, would have very likely be on the internet. Its the time we now live in, anyone can distribute their handy work now. Pretty sure photographers are having the same discussion as well with all the cheap high quality digital camera's and editing software out there.

But despite the 'pollution' the art still exists and will survive. All I can suggest is just to stay proud and keep your head up.

I did the same thing with dual cassettes counting the beat so the next song would mix with the previous. taping Dj red alert and Mr. Magic late Friday nights....lol

And it never really worked that well since often on pressing record the tape would move a little bit :P How we dreamed of having a mixer ..

Exactly. But it was our humble beginnings..lol

This is gonna be a long hearing since youtube is packed with such evidence.. At least the jury will have it easy to form a verdict.

And yeah.. judging by the other video's he has.. this is teen, very enthusiastic, but clueless of what he's doing. Sort of the same as we starting with mixtapes, with the exception that through youtube the whole world can now enjoy what might have been better left private....

Degrading of the art or collateral damage in this age of communication?

" Degrading of the art or collateral damage in this age of communication? "

Maybe both so instead of "or" an "and" would work best.

nm

Here's the deal, DJing is a culture policed by us. We are responsible for it's future, if you care about it, then you will want to pass it on in a better light or at least as it was. Humans are in current state apathy and ignorance. We as elders are not doing our job to preserve the integrity of our culture. Instead the weak and lazy speak with authority encouraging and excusing inferiority.

Honestly, it stems from many different issues, older DJ's that can't do anything else, but too lazy to learn anything new, older DJ's living off of what they did 20 years ago……etc.

As gate keepers, we need to do a better job. We owe it to our culture.

You just proved the anti sync point, those sets were not good because they didnt possess the skills to make it so...add sync and those EXACT same dj/skill levels have one less talent to learn and can fake that much more of their acutual ability

THIIIISS!!! People keep saying the culture will live on.....no, no it wont if noone speaks up everytime someone removes a piece of it.

Today its sync, if noone speaks up and everyone smiles and says yes push that button thats all ya gotta do piece of cake, then the next gen will grow up pushing that button without thought, noone will go out of their way to learn something thats automated and accepted. Then itll be autoscratch and poll playlists ect ect until there is no culture, only software.

Is this future inevitable...probably but i for one sure as fuck wont just sit back and watch the culture i love die without a fight.

Add to that. Its great fun to teach the younger generation. Amazing to see how fast kids pick up on stuff!!

Recently I volunteered to give a series of workshops for the local youth center. In four evenings I taught the kids the bare bare basics. Starting with what a DJ actually does, counting, selecting, basic mixing etc etc. After four workshops the next phase for them was to organize their own party for friends and family and play on it. Of course you cannot expect mix master kids after just four workshops, but at least they got the basics correct for them to build onto.

Some pics from the kids at their 'gig': www.facebook.com

I think it proved the the emphasis of who is using sync and who is not using sync does not matter. There are fundamentals that are more important and if you master the basics whether you use the sync button are not it will not matter. At the very least play the records people like and play them on beat with or without sync.

I have never left a club in my younger years sweaty and drunk worried about if the DJ used vinly or sync. As long as the music never stopped, the selection was good and most importantly he controlled the energy so there was a "flow".

Master those things and the masses will love you.

There is a human element to "just" mixing songs by ear. The slight adjustments that the dj makes to ride the beat are heard subconciously by the crowd, connecting them to the dj's ear/brain/hand Mental/musical process. Some mixes sound better with one track slightly ahead or behind the other. There is some deep intuitive musical shit going on when a dj mixes two tracks and gets them to swing just right right at the crucial moment.

There are some things that old school djs and crowds got to hear and feel that future heads won't even know existed, and riding the mix is likely one of them.

er, mine worked perfectly after I learned the secrets. I was making radio tapes, beat loops, I could even chop between bars and so on. all that before I even wanted to DJ.

back on subject:

I dont agree. When I started learning I stayed in the bedroom and would not let anyone see me do shit until I had some type of skill worthy of being shown. Whats happening to today is different - these dudes EXPECT the shit to work right away without any work put in. The reason these expectations exists is the 'sync' type features being added.

As soon as the computer showed up people thought the computer was doing the work for us - they had to be educated about the art - and eventually they were. NOW the computer is actually doing the work.

THIS is how the art is being destroyed - if ANYONE can 'make it work' without doing anything there is no respect for the artform.

I will admit that DJing (playing other peoples music) has always been in a precarious technology based situation compared to the guitar player. But a culture and an artform emerged. It took time, practice and intelligence to work - those elements are being replaced. period.

Serato at one point did in fact respect the art and made sure their product was not seen as automation, it was a tool which allowed the human to do the traditional work of DJing and more. Sync does the work for you.



yeah - SUPER FAST when they dont really have much to learn.

Watchwww.youtube.com

Sorry man, but that's just pretty acid. With that mindset your world and the future must be a grim and nasty for sure.

There will always be technological 'progress' and there are always going to be kids wanting to be DJ and there are always going to be companies commercializing the whole thing. That is here to stay. Fact of life. So if you want anything to chance and keep the art alive.. share your knowledge.. be a teacher.

Maybe, if my whole world revolved around a sync button.



I am actually a teacher.

This is not about 'technological progress'. I like and benefit from all types of technology and have nothing against it at all.

It's pretty funny to for someone who has been using a computer to DJ half of their career (almost ten years) to looked at as 'afraid of technology' LMAO

But if it makes you better about yourself pressing that button.....

Nm

I've taught quite a few DJ's over the years and I can tell you that the "students" of today are lazy, wanting to be out in front of a crowd after one lesson, and just plain disrespectful to the art. So, that's why I have zero students right now.

Last month I had someone ask me about DJing. I asked what the reason behind wanting to become one was and couldn't even answer.

nm

well, we can thank the commercialization of hiphop, then the commercialization of Electronic music, and then add every company looking to make some money of of both of those as fast as humanly possible...

and there we have it.
a LARGER than average percentage of people want, and can instantly become the person they saw at EDC last week...

why?
1. The person at EDC probably did nothing spectacular to warrant a "how did he do that, or jesus he must practice shit daily" opinion.
2. all these companies, most of them have a very SMALL stake in the EXISTING DJ
why? they already got our money.
its about the NEW guys.
Not too many CDJ/1200 djs are going to drop everything and go grab a ___________ controller.
but think of how many new guys are... pretty much all of them,
matter o fact i cant even count locally how many DJs i know locally that -3 years experience that ARENT on a controller.
(don't confuse this with a slight on controllers. just illustrating the focal point of these companies are handling the existign DJ community with 2 fingers, while the other 8 are thinking how can we get more new DJs to buy our product... (pssssss , i not talking about Rare, and their name rhymes with Eye & Ear)

"Not talking about *Rane..."

Obviously

My theory was always cater to the pro and the rest will follow.

True Joshua.

nm

Exactly

nm

Happy clapping with your best mate and Jesus poses are partly responsible too imo. I'm sure you're well respected in your field, given the quality of your promo video(s) www.djniros.com but to me mixing long perfectly sequenced trance tracks isn't much of a skill anyway, especially on CD decks which don't deviate the tempo like a record turntable does. Even if you aren't pressing the sync button, because you've so much time to cue your tracks up and with the CD players show you the BPM. Less so of a skill as i'm pretty sure you claimed tune selection isn't really a skill.

Probably says a lot for a trance crowd.

Sorry to single you out dude, but i'm the exact opposite of you and despite me changing my attitude to sync over the years, I have still never used it in a live setting and might not do until I see a need.

....or at least some benefit.

I can relate....

I love a rougher rawer mix with a few mistakes from lots of experimentation. If I listen to my old mixes, I hear a lot of experimentation of my throwing snippets into the live mix to see how shit's going to sound. I understand my thought processes from those times better and can see why I drop some things into the mix and swap stuff about.

Sadly, most DJ's releasing a commercial mix these days has almost certainly done it on or with a computer to ensure perfection.

the thing about sync is that other than the complete grid quantize mode, is that it doesnt really sync tracks unless you throw them on point with a very non swing quantized track. of course its minimal adjusting to get it right, but in any dvs, you can sync the bpms manually and get the same basic effect. surely changing the pitch on a computer to match tracks with a transient map and wav layout isn't that much greater of a task than using a sync button.

Yet. CDJs (which I personally don't like and only used for rappers back before DVS) were created with a noble purpose - spin cd. The elimination of wow&flutter was a bonus of the technology....... The only reasons sync exists is to a. Do work for you and b. People crying for it.

but how much work is it doing? like 10% extra.

After using sync SDJ with a 900 and an x1, it make it much easier to get on the Serato board during those boring retail gigs.

maybe I missed something here.... but are we talking about the same Niros? I could be wrong, I have been before...
The Battle DJ? The Rane Sponsored turntablist who also spins and produces remix videos (as seen in the link you mentioned) and performs in the Rane booth at all their shows?
dj.rane.com

What percent of the software doing the work for you is acceptable?

In that case man, i'll eat the humble pie. I can see I misjudged the guy, so sorry to you Niros.

I just have a strong aversion to Trance DJ's in general as I see the god complex and little else, but I can see the guy has some decent turntable skills and obviously a much larger repertoire than playing just trance.

...and is more talented than me on the decks too with his turntablist skills, so respect! :D

Well he was right about one thing....hes the exact opposite lol

Hahahaha well a kindred spirit :D

....apart from the trance of course ;)

lol

nm

what percentage is not acceptable? even if you are using abs, if you arent using vinyl NT(no timecode) the argument of how much is right or wrong is moot.

well one cant help but affiliate trance with ALL THINGS THAT SUCK!

BANG BANG! lol....

lol

nm

i.imgur.com

:D

hahaha

nm

Rotflmao

If you can believe it, I've seen the same scenario play out when trying to explain A-trak's come up to some DJs...

technology aside
I don't think a lot of this generation vest themselves into things like past ones had.

I think a lot of the older cats eat, sleep & breath all things DJ
ESPECIALLY in the infant/toddler stages of their careers.
Of course there are some... But it certainly seemed like every dude you bumped into was dedicated beyond compare.
Now it's something people do on weekends if you can get booked

This is how people practiced in front of an audience before sync was invented.

i30.photobucket.com

:P
nm

...with a PC?

:D

lol

nm

^^^ This! Exactly. = NONE

virtual dj sync .......Watchwww.youtube.com

exactly

i also think a lot of producers, didnt really necessarily HAVE to dj. Now, many did, but still it was maybe a live PA or one of the members dj'ed. Now DJ'ing is pretty much THE revenue stream for most producers.

First off, I nag literally every DJ I come across to not use sync. I feel like being able to beat match is a right of passage to being respected along with an essential skill that all DJs should know even if they don't use it all the time. My friend's argument is always "If you don't have to beat match then you can pay attention more to the music and transitions. I want to take people on an experience." While he has a valid point, I still don't completely agree. I think the main reason why it's considered "cheating" is because the "real DJs" use turntables. Turntables are the epitome of the DJ world, it's what started it all. Why use vinyl at all if we don't need to acquire the fine art of easing the vinyl to the perfect pitch. The ability to sync is just one level of respect, just as using real vinyl over control is. I'm not completely against it but it definitely has its pros and cons.

Overall, DJ'ing is an art and in the art world there are many fakes. Someone could always think that digital painting is selling out because you aren't keeping true to the medium and have an advantage despite creating a beautiful piece with it, but if you can paint for shit, be it digitally or organically then what does it matter? There are ways to use technology to its fullest potential and surprise people with the way it's utilized you just have to have the talent to back it up.

Bullshit maybe if you play hip hop pop in an American Style you don't like trance but lets name a few djs.
Paul van Dyke,Ferry Corsten, Armin van Buuren,Paul Oakenfold,Tiesto(in his prime) Carl Cox,Sasha,John Digweed the list goes on and on.
Trance is not very popular right now as certain American asssholes have invented edm in an attempt to make as much money as possible.
I find it very dissrespectful that just because the general style in america is to play chessey pop and rnb along with 25 year old wickey wickey noises[scratching]
and try to pass it of as original that you feel the need to call many djs who invented a scene,a scene that did not rely on people bragging about cars/money/sex.

A scene where people came out to dance to enjoy themselves to forget to make friends,America gets hold of edm and turns it into a rock concert lowest common denominator,shit music big name so called dance djs bringing out records that are basically country and western goes cheesy dance.
Unfortunatley America doesnt have much of a culture cos as soon as anything gets relativley big coparate America jumps on it, Very Sad.
Your all playing 40 records an hour because the music is shit and the crowd have the attention span of a gnat. Rant over.

Never a better time to invoke Godwin's Law...

Watchwww.youtube.com

Yup

nm

No apologies needed. The site was last updated before a quick tour in SE Asia and it's very uptempo. Am I a trance DJ, I don't think so, do I like trance? I really like some of the songs and not others, similar to my taste in, rap, hiphop….etc. I like a lot of music and also dislike a lot. I would consider myself more of a party rocker/open format DJ. I grew up as a scratch/battle DJ and was introduced to a lot of genres while digging for records across America. But, on the way home from gigs, I listen to talk radio about aliens and stuff.

I'm gonna say it again, you do not have too or should you choose to accept someone as a good DJ because they can do one or the other. A good DJ is a complete package, breaking it into pieces so you can excuse lack of a skill sets is bogus.

Also the excuse that the crowd do not care and only other DJ's would, is probably the crappy excuses out. If you feel that way, then I'm going to have to inform you, you have no integrity, you are a scoundrel. Judgement by your colleges/peers that understand what is going on is very important. Case in point, Grand Master Jay. (Please don't give me examples like Paris, that crowd goes to see the celebrity period.)

Sync is not going away, but neither are training wheels for bicycles. If you're using technology to further the art form, then awesome. But if you're using it because you're lazy, then not so awesome.

hehehehehehe........ "Dont poke the Trance fans"

it was a joke.
I got stacks and stacks of trance from that era.. Rank1, Blank& Jones, Lange, Chicane, CosmicGate, Ferry Cornsten, Above & Beyond, Tomcraft,,,,sooo many

and how dare you put Carl Cox in that group!

I just know that Trance fans are like Chicago Cubs Fans.... So salty.

"Sync is not going away, but neither are training wheels for bicycles."

I like this line for a t-shirt.

nm

the only difference, when you show up at the tour de france with the wheels still on your bike the other riders dont say well, as long as the people finish line dont care...
Watchwww.youtube.com

quick mixing 30 pop records or playing 8 minute long songs with 2 minute breakdowns. equally shit. i guarantee its harder to do the open format.

this lol^^^^^

hey, wtf matters is if your putting money in your pocket from the gigs you got. BOTTOM FUCKING LINE. to sync or not to sync should be left to Shakespeare. people now-a-days dont give a shit about the crap [that they already hear on a daily] hear. play your fucking set and be done with it guys. unless you a headliner dj i.e jazzy jeff, qbert, stop bitching about trivial shit like this. nobody cares but us Djs about sync. So get $ in your pocket. Djn is more than sync or to not. and if you get your spot taken by a syncy nood, thats your falt and personally id be embarrassed. So F off, play music, get paid, get laid, drink a beer or two and enjoy the ride! Im so over this topic that come to surface every 2-3 months.

i digress.

love you guys.

house music all night long

lol

Cheers mate, where do you want it delivered?

It's hard to understand what you're relaying. On one hand, you say Americans "invented EDM" but on the other, you said Americans got a hold of EDM.


Is this a knock on scratching?


I don't get your comparison here on how capitalism equates to culture or lack of. Corporate gets on it because this is a capitalist society. If there's a buck to be made, people will jump at opportunity to make it.


LoL... no explanation needed.

(nm)

What is now called EDM has been around for ages its commercial dance music,pop electro whatever,I'm saying the marketing men created the term edm and have tried to push it as though its a brand new thing,brand new in America but not elsewhere,Its being exploited by big buisness who don't care for the music the scene just for the bucks.



No not if its done well,but if overdone it can be annoying and as far as I am aware its not moved on much over recent years.




When the rave scene took off over here it was anti establishment,people were fed up of being spoon fed the same crap music in carpet and chrome nightclubs,it was a reaction against the big labels and companies in a similar way to what punk was in the 70's.In America now with the EDM it seems to be all about brands jumping on the bandwagon,the tail is wagging the dog!

The fast mixing style has its place,what you do lose out on is contrast,a track never gets to a breakdown its big hit after big hit which after a while is just a wall of sound,with house music and playing the tracks longer there is more oppertunity to use contrast light and shade,build things up break them down etc but todays crowds do not have the attention span.

Don't ask. Don't tell.

nm

That's definitely not the shirt I want. lol

nm

Just play a mix cd and twist slob some knobs - long as you get some free drinks.

Nm

the UK is ground zero for shite dance pop. Trance is what started bad electronic music, as a specific genre, more than anything else. I hear trance djs say that 'dolphin' trance or pop trance sucks and there is good trance. Well either way the late 90s-early 2000s Trance was EDM. I live in a big metro area in texas, lets say the 4th biggest in the US. Trance was played in every sports bar/lounge/club in the area from about 98-2002. Every meathead with a shiny shirt and stripper type chicks loved it, but why? because it was awful mainstream crap. EDM is simply the redo of that awful style, thats why all the cheesy pop Trance stalwarts easily slipped into the EDM scene(ex Tiesto).

Yep, the UK certainly produced a lot shite dance music thanks in large part to the PWL hit machine, around the time much classier house music started hitting us from Chicago and the more techno electro sounds were coming in from Detroit and the new beat arrived from Belgium, then A Guy Called Gerald brought something interesting to the party from the UK in 88, but the good music helped kick start the warehouse scene.

I think trance arrived from elsewhere in Europe though. It was mentioned in the magazines as being the thing on the continent, but it took a while to catch on in the UK, thankfully.

I'll just say this, without waveforms and sync there would a ton of DJ's who wouldn't be DJ's. I know plenty of guys coming up that found it incredibly hard to mix two songs together wether it be CD's or vinyl. That alone stopped plenty of people from becoming DJs.

Fast forward today and technology is changing this and now music is mixed primarily with your eyes, well for the new DJs that its. No headphones. Mixing music with your eyes, wth. I use the waveforms no doubt, but I still use my ears no question. I will never use sync.

I was reading this earlier too www.mixmag.net

It's badly written on the most part, but towards the end it made some really interesting points and made me question why I started this thread.

I think there's lots of interesting points been made here in this thread and in that piece, even despite it being written in a EDM (and I hate that term) music mag.

It seems to be the people with the passion for what it once meant to be a DJ that's winning the argument for me now and the more I read, the less I want to change where i've come from. I don't really need to use Sync, so why am I arguing in it's defense? I guess it's just because it's there now in the software and every other Tom Dick and harry are going to be using it.

...But, I don't think I can bring myself to use it live.

If you are a true master of your craft, it will show.

that was an amazing era of electronic music, especially towards the end there was some absolute garbage though.

around these parts (call it later day puritan... see, im in New England.. and yet i felt a string pull to alot of things UK... see thats a joke... be it a poor one)
but i was really into 2 step, Garage, Funky & Nu Skool breaks.
all the while the sound, at least around here was big anthem vocals and NYC house (The sub genre is a blurred line... but all that 137-141 bpm shit like this: Watchwww.youtube.com

Ive always felt the formula for todays garbage was birthed from that very predictable formula for that style. intro>small build>small drop> big buid> drop>long break> huge build> crazy out

I certainly have still think some of those songs are pretty impressive.
Watchwww.youtube.com
but it certainly paved the way for Krewella, Cash Cash, alesso SHM style of atmospheric break downs and build ups and acid.

personally, Ill this build over those any day of the week
Watchwww.youtube.com

I'm going to keep this thread on a serious matter and not say some smart ass remark. Your attitude is what is wrong with the current state of DJing. You're exploiting an art form and then leaving it to go to waste. It's nothing more then prostituting DJing for a dollar. SO NO, THAT IS NOT THE BOTTOM FUCKING LINE. I'm sorry you are sick of this topic, you do have a choice not to few the post. You are messing it up for the people that actually care about DJing as a whole.

Enjoy the ride, but also please leave it better then when you came in or at least the same. Don't fuck it up for others because you don't care. This topic comes up because it's an integral part of DJing and it's not going away. Policing our culture is the only way it will stay alive, slowing automating piece by piece will indefinitely kill it. Again, I feel strongly about this subject, because I love DJing and it's something I choose to do, not because I have too.

DJ Dick Driver, I'm sorry you feel the way you do. Good luck in your career.

Because it needs to be read again.

nm

THIIIIISS!!! Just because your bitter or bored with the minor aspects of the craft dosent give you the right to rob the learning oppriunity from the next gen. Characters built in the struggle.

"I'll just say this, without waveforms and sync there would a ton of DJ's who wouldn't be DJ's. I know plenty of guys coming up that found it incredibly hard to mix two songs together wether it be CD's or vinyl. That alone stopped plenty of people from becoming DJs."

So true. Yet I hear many people say that mixing isn't that hard. It's funny too because then you see noobs not be able to get what apparently should be or is an easy concept.

Mixing with DVS or any device that gives you the BPM of a song makes it easier indeed. Yet, I see people fucking that up even with the new technology.

nm

Serato actually said the reason they don't show the BPM down to two decimals is because its a REFERENCE - originally they did not mean for anyone to just dial in numbers.

enter sync

nm

this is true. even with sync people mess up.

to me its such an ass backwards way of doing it, id rather, if i had to, learn to beatmatch.

look im not bashing the craft, i play 3 nights a week. nobody cares about sync but djs. so while you guys go back and forth about this topic, ima prepare my my set for my tuesday night gig. o and yeah, ima just use the sync button just because lol. peace

why not just make a pre made mix tonight?

nm

lol maybe. i need to practice my jesus pose too

WRONG!!
I know a few venue owners/managers/promoters that won't even book DJs that use laptops. So you're statement that nobody cares about Sync but DJs is quite inaccurate. But if you feel better at the end of the day being a push-button sync DJ then go right ahead. Some of us actually do this because we love it, not just for a paycheck. Have a nice night

Shots fired !!!

Nm nh

....


close enough

lol


---
This is why I freestyle all day long.

nm

so they are so uneducated about djs, they wont allow laptops regardless of sync?

thats just plain dumb.

In the future you will be able to DJ by selecting lets say 20 songs and with ONE button automatically arrange and mix them. Oh wait this guy uses that program right here. Listen to what he's saying till the end. Watch at 4:35 min Watchwww.youtube.com

Why not its the natural evolution right?

its so hard to beatmatch!!!!

I'm sure all us pro djs care,but really what do you suggest we do! set up a protest group to force serato traktor pioneer and virtually everyone else to remove the sync feature.
Sync is here nothing can be done about it,either use it or don't,but its not going to go away so what's the point in the discussion? It's already happened.
I have cruise control in my car I rarely use it,I know other people who use it all the time,are they not driving?are they cheating,will pedestrians start berating them from the side of the road?

The part I agree with is how companies make bullshit gui with fake turntable graphics. Its just as bad with these controllers with fake shit on em - strobe dots without a strobe light etc.

I think he is wrong about who thats aimed at or whos asking for it because I highly doubts its anyone who actually uses turntables.

So in the long run will he be happy when the computer is making song selections too?

Noones asking the companies to remove the option but as a culture it should be frowned upon and not taught as an option. Versions of sync have been around for a long time, there was a SYNC button on the CMX 3000 CD unit I learned to DJ on. The FIRST thing the older DJ who taught me the game told me was that if he ever saw me touch that button, from then until forever, he would punch me in the face and trash my set. Now I don't believe he would actually do that but it was instilled in me that I would def lose respect if I used it. Tahts the opposite of this mentality threads like this try to push where people start preaching about how since its here its not a big deal

worst is when that shits called 'the future' or 'technology advancing'

It's not about them being uneducated about the DJs. They want the crowd to actually see the DJ mixing, not staring at a computer screen all night. Believe it or not, in this day and age some people actually go out to watch a real live DJ perform

Is driving a car an art now? lol

nm

It can be in some senarios

I can bet in those scenarios, cruise control wouldn't be a factor. lol

nm

True

I agree with Bez you definatly should learn to mix manually. But once you can mix in your sleep whether or not you occasionally chose to use sync or not is irrelevant.
As for some venues banning laptops that great for me so long as they have cdj 2000s installed,if they want me to play vinyl it's going to have to be an oldskool night.
This conversations just going right round and round like a record lol.
I've stopped tracking.

And again. As stated weeks ago we are back at "the person who knows how to and is using technology to advance the value of their product."

VS

"I Hit pirate bay, got a crazy indie dance set, bought a 300 controller and talking to the manager right now about my $50 and drink tickets... Because what did I have to do to be a dj aside from spend a little money and download free music?"


Apples and Oranges.
Yet, everytime these conversations happen Shiftee and Dj BlogStar are the same exact guy.

This subject/discussion = this video on repeat: Watchwww.youtube.com

Not cool yo.

Watchwww.youtube.com
Watchwww.youtube.com
Watchwww.youtube.com

Thanks Akiem, here's a better perspective.

Watchwww.youtube.com

to all those pro to sync
serious question,
if you and another sync dj were given the songs, gear, time frame,
how much different do you think your stuff would sound?

The Sync button only beat matches "sometimes"
And the Sync button never mixes

It may save time messing with the pitch but technology posts the BPM and I am not hardcore enough to put tape of the BPM reader. LOL

So if you dont use sync but read BPM you still have an aid to find the tempo even if not always exact. We all are using these aids to some extent. But those who use sync only cannot use certain records period cause it will sync a snare with a bass depending on were it lands in the measure. Plus waveforms are easier to use than sync becase you can actually see the beat and cue right on the bass drum.

Just respect the art and learn as much as possible.

Sure NOW, but what about tomoarow
first you had to use your ears
then you had a bpm readout
then you had a bpm readout and a waveform
then you had a bpm readout and a waveform and a function that matches the beat sometimes

and at each step people had this same conversation and people claimed "well it only does ____ it docent ___" and next thing you know it does. Inch by inch it grows and at each step people figure out reasons to say its not bad.

Very true....

nm

next is .... pick a genre of music and it will mix shuffle for you i=on your ipad/iphone with music in the cloud with your dj drops in the mix ... post direct to your facebook/tweeter/instagram/soundcloud/internet radio ........

nm nh

If none of you are just using vinyl you are all cheating. STFU & have a seat already.

You have a point. Part of respecting the art is learning the history.

Yep!

I would have to disagree, nice try.

Well control records are vinyl. So stfu already. lol

nm

:)


nm nh

can't we all just get along? LOL

^^^ Rodney King voice

...finally these people wake up bent over a log feeling violated.

nm

Fixed....

I look at it like this, pure vinyl djing was like a test you had to know the info and what you were doing. Djing with DVS is like an open book test that allows you to reference the information but you still need to form your own independant thoughts and opinions and site your sources, sure you are getting a hand from the book but your still using it to form an educated responce. Sync is just copying the answer word for word from the book and walking out of the class having gained nothing of value to use in the future.

when did Bezzle get so edyewmuhkayted?

Lol!!

NM lol

DVS is the ultimate Cheat Sheet. It has all the answers for you. BPM, Cue Points, Loops, Instant Doubles, Length of track, Waveforms, Auto Gain.

Sync is just one more item. Adding it to all of that is not a big deal to me. Natural evolution.

And as I keep saying sync is the only thing that totally subtracts from the performance, it adds NOTHING. A bpm may tell you what bpm it is but on vinyl you still have to match it and keep it lined up dealing with pitch and wow, same with waveforms, cue points can be used to do tone play routined which are IMPOSSIBLE without them, same with loops, infinite loop rolls and looping an accapella for wordplay is impossible without em. What can you use sync for to ADD to your performance, what can you NOT do without it? And length of the track...comin son even regular no computer vinyl had track length on the lable

The usefulness of these items are not the argument. We can all agree that each of them make DJing great and have added a new level to the game.

They are still cheating in respect to "The Artform" so many are here crying about. All I continue to say is don't justify which type of cheating you want to use. Because it is all cheating.

If natural evolution means taking away skills and aspects then the natural evolution will end up takung away ALL skills and aspects and ausing the species to go extinct.

Not true because as i just clearly showed they have INCREASED the artform, toneplay, looping, quicker loading of songs, larger librarys ect hace all allowed things to be done that couldnt be done before, therefor they have ADVANCED the artform. Sync not only adds nothing but it causes a skill to not be developed so it DECREASES the artform.

BPM takes away the skill of having to know what the beats of your records are.

Loops take away the skill of you having to juggle to records to extend a break.

Cue Points take away the skill of you having to needle drop or try and find a spot on your record

Waveforms take away the skill of you listening to see if your mix is going to be off beat


Now which skills are you talking about going away?

Increased by Cheating!

ever try mixin 4 tracks at once? sync helps. i could do it all my own but if there is a tool i could use, then sure why not?

Yeah. When did that happen? :P

nm

Can you do a tone play routine without cues? NO, skill added

Can you loop an acapella and use it to do a wordplay routine/remix without loops? NO, skill added

Waveforms and bpm do take a way a bit of skill but you still have to hold the mix so ill give you a draw on that.

But Sync adds NOTHING theres NOTHING you can do with it creativly, it ONLY subtracts skill. Not only that but its clearly detracts fron other skills as well.

Why dont you just mix them all together in ableton and play it as a single recording since theres a better easier tool than syncing it live?

Now your just trolling but at least its still increased, sync only detracts

Beat me to it..

nm

BPM takes away the skill of having to know what the beats of your records are.

Loops take away the skill of you having to juggle to records to extend a break.

Cue Points take away the skill of you having to needle drop or try and find a spot on your record

Waveforms take away the skill of you listening to see if your mix is going to be off beat


Now which skills are you talking about going away?
Can you do a tone play routine without cues? NO, skill added

Can you loop an acapella and use it to do a wordplay routine/remix without loops? NO, skill added

Waveforms and bpm do take a way a bit of skill but you still have to hold the mix so ill give you a draw on that.

But Sync adds NOTHING theres NOTHING you can do with it creativly, it ONLY subtracts skill. Not only that but its clearly detracts fron other skills as well.

Again you are adding skill by using a feature that allows you to cheat.

You don't have to hold a mix if you are using CDJs. Just lock in the BPMs.

Sync allows you at use EQ & Effects during the transition.

Ill even say bpms and waveforms give you info, you may not know how to count a beat but when bpm info is given you learn what tracks to play, waveforms can teach track structure. Sync dosent teach ANYTHING it dosent even provide info

because sometimes as a dj, you do shit on the fly. or some new combination just comes into your head ya know?

flowers for bezzleron lol

Negative....

They have not INCREASED the "Artform"...

In reality, it's has created a "DIFFERENT" Genre, something akin to "Digital DJ"ing...which has developed into an "Artform" all it's OWN....

You're now talking apples and oranges, because you're not using the same tools to get the same results...

" BPM takes away the skill of having to know what the beats of your records are."

This tool has been there before DVS. Even though is there on DVS, you can tell the veterans don't really need this tool because when cueing songs, they're usually 1, 2, 3 even 4 songs ahead. Meaning... they know the BPM range.

nm

but you're using the same tools... plus added tools. That's how evolution happens

Turntables plus other "tools"

nm

" Sync allows you at use EQ & Effects during the transition.

lol

nm

I'm going to quote it one more time because it was funny.

"Sync allows you at use EQ & Effects during the transition."

nm

Nobody is saying evolution doesn't happen, just how transporation evolved from walking to horse and buggy to bikes to cars, to planes..etc...

You're still getting from point A TO B but the "Tools" have changed...

You can't compare Walking to Taking a Plane today.

So what has sync created? Nothing

Well, you can. It's calling moving around from one place to another.

:)

nm

At what point did walking become an artform?

Okay... I'm going to post it again... because it. was. funny.

"Sync allows you at use EQ & Effects during the transition."


I believe the majority knows how to use EQ and effects during transitions without sync...

AND WITHOUT DVS EVEN!

nm

People need to realise the difference between pratical labor and an artform.

Comparing Djing to walking us like saying its ok to tear down a 100 year old temple because they tore down the 1 year old starbucks on the other side if town.

Synch is nothing more than a tool in the Digital DJ World...

That's it.

Those who grew up in the DJ world truly learning how to mix feel some sort of way about it because of the very NATURE of it's job.

It can be both a positive and a negative, depending on who's looking at it and from what perspective.

Sure it's an artform for those who may NOT be able to walk...

But you already know what I'm getting at...

#NoTangent.

I can agree to that.

The only problem I have with sync, to be honest, is that everyone who has ever said something good about it says they needed it to increase their performance or something to that effect. Yet, none of them, has done so. Proving, in fact, that sync really doesn't do (or hasn't done) anything useful.

nm

You don't even see that I'm halfway agreeing with your dumb azz....

Walking wasn't the "Artform" - "Transportion" was the example...

The thing about sync is that those who need to BRAG about using it are the ones bringin down the "Artform", and probably couldn't survive without it.

Those that can use it "effectively" (and already know how to beatmatch) are already increasing their performance or something to that effect.

Quote fail. I blame it on Sync

I am well aware of that.

And I would beg to differ about the vets not needing it. Because of DVS people are using wider ranges of BPMs with


FYI I use TT's so I have no need for Sync. I'm just saying it is another tool that is out there to be used for DJ's. It has it's place with the rest.

"And I would beg to differ about the vets not needing it. Because of DVS people are using wider ranges of BPMs with"

Huh? You lost me. What does sync have to do with wider ranges of BPM?

nm

i agree with this. Ive seen alot of examples of people who claim its a necessary tool yet when they describe why or compare it to other features yiou can clearly see that not only do they not do any advanced mixing but they wouldnt know what you were talkin about if you asked them to try

Good morning gentlemen.

1. Knowing the bpm of a record is information/knowledge. Acquiring information use to take skill, but this was attainable by anyone that could tap and had a watch.

2. Loops are loops, not much to say there. I still juggle certain parts of the song, because it's fun and a skill set I have learned.

3. Listening is not a skill, I believe you are referring to wave riding. I would consider that cheating and do not encourage it, but helpful to some in certain situations and also helpful to novice DJs learning how to mix. Just like training wheels on a bike, leaving the training wheels, eh. Myself and many others usually DJ with our laptops to the side.

4. You can also use EQ's and Effects without using sync. It takes more skill, that is the point. Riding with no hands on your bike without training wheels takes more skill then with training wheels.


DJ Dick Driver, again not trying to be a jerk or anything. But I have never heard four songs that sounded good mixed together (Please provide an example.) Anyhow, I would be more impressed if you did it without sync. Doing with sync, again is similar to riding no hands with training wheels.

Take cue points for example - yes they can be used to help the lazy DJ - BUT what they allow you to do has a net INCREASE in the artistry.

sync - none

Sync is no different than locking the BPMs on your CDJ or in Internal Mode.

point Ive been making forever. Four decks, why not five? just use Ableton, thats what its built for.

nm

incorrect - nether one of those leads to compete automation.

Its not a "tool". A tool allows you to work more effectively. This is "automation" - doing the work for you.

nm

I don't know, because I don't use CDJ's and the few times I have, they were with SL and there were no BPM's on the display. But I would believe that you still had to manually do some work, especially since a lot of music, especially older stuff isn't quantized.

The question is why you are justifying the bad with things a little less bad. I'm not for wave riding, bpm locking and whatever else takes minimal to no skill to achieve, I discourage this type of behavior. I do encourage the veteran DJ's to help foster the newbies lead them in the right direction.

Sucks that today's/tomorrow's djs will never feel the satisfaction of pulling off a dope mix of a couple of (not ableton warped) songs by ear.

b/w

You could mix 4 tracks manually but just can't be bothered 'cause it's so easy anyway? Foreal?

Djing is easy, anyone can do it, so why bother showing up to gigs

If you can pull a crowd you get bookings

Thats the way it works, doesnt matter how you do it

The anti sync people seem to be the scratch mixers so seems to depend on the style of music you play would that be correct?

wrong

Please elaborate then

^^ wrong indeed

The anti sync people are not only scratch mixers so it does not to depend on the style of music you play.