I literally laughed out loud when the irony of who started this thread hit me

+1

I have to believe that there's a way to modify this to make that happen... www.elpj.com

Now if only they'll come down on the price... www.audioturntable.com

GTFOFH...

I see my loyal fans have arrived... :-)

I'd like to see a new format of audio files that had all the parts as tracks (kicks, snares, hi percs, etc) so that if you chose, you could remix stuff to a more granular degree on the fly.

LOL
Hey Johnny, it's 2013!

www.quickmeme.com

en.wikipedia.org

Traktor already does this lol

I nominate for Backfired Thread. In 'record' time!!!

More "Good Humor"...

Please continue...

No. Seriously. You can't deny this one, Johnny.

You start a thread for 'geeks' about 'future' technology and your first request is something that was invented 36 years ago??? Meanwhile in another thread you need a new laptop so you buy a 6 yr computer then install Windows XP and SSL 1.9.1???

A Mind reading machine that can see the requests of the crowd.


*2 Chainz bubbles above everyones head*

True story.

Ah, but can the laser digitize a worn out copy of "Good Times"?

a way to digitally convert Barbara Streissand records into Classic Rock

i615.photobucket.com

yikes

See a pattern? :-X

Don't say nuffin' mayne...lol...

What's good?

So is listening to Barbara Striessand a crime? Espeically if you're a DJ?

Y'all are scared to answer the question.....

smh...

Actually a much more recent development than the "laser turntable" (which will always be a niche technology) is optical scanning of records:

phys.org

It's not well-developed yet, but with better/cheaper optical scanner technology and faster/cheaper processing, it could be cost-effective and practical before too long.

LOL. No doubt

"...cause we've got nothing to be guilty about..."

heheheh

Yes because you should be listening to Bette Midler

Then stay tuned dammit... :-)

Nah man, I see what you're saying though :) You can def. use the remix decks like ableton clips to get the effect - but still....MP3s don't come with each isolated track ;)

Backfired Thread of The Year right here.


So what did everyone have for breakfast today?

Well according to this other thread

serato.com

Johnny had Creamofsumyungguy. He claims
it's Asian food. lol

Nah traktor, for a while at least, was releasing big name songs in seperate parts specifically to use with the remix decks

lol! why would he even post that wtf!!

Are you sure? :-)

****Taking attendance****

***About to start calling parents because a few are missing***

Ahhh that explains all the shitty guetta/avicci remixes. Cheers ;)

Lmfao i think those acutually some of the kits procided

This is them:
www.native-instruments.com

Ever so slightly seems to defeat the whole 'originality in my sets' point of the remix decks to be buying packages to use.

I think there already is something like this. I remember reading about it a year or two ago. I can't remember the format name, but it was, I assume, an experimental/research idea. I'll have to find it.

O_0 .....................

When "Brain Sync" gets here, will the "button-syncers" and "ear-syncers" come together to fight a common enemy?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Streisand has a hell of a voice.

fuck you all.

LMAO....

s3-ec.buzzfed.com


O_O s3-ec.buzzfed.com

s3-ec.buzzfed.com

Again, WHO are you again?

i'm moe. or is it curly?

Iover how you guys alow him to ask questions he had no right asking.... He is nobody..... Ask all you want old one..

Someone insignificant, Larry? Maybe Shemp?

I never gave you that much thought....

LMAO! AT YOU of all people saying someone is "NOBODY", when all the time you were sooo much of a NOBODY that you needed to create an additional alias...

BWHAHAHAHAHA...

Of all people to comment...

I'm here old one... :)

Another loyal fan....

Old folks need time to think ... Their reaction time is very slow!!!!

**** not gonna look in the morrow cause I'm afraid the ashy old man will install crapy windblows on my mbp*****

The Future of DJing Technology...
2014-2020- Going into all wireless, motion,gesture-based widi controllers
2020-2030- Neuron-based thought control and mind manipulation of tracks.
2031-2036- Full virtual reality based musical immersion systems. DJ and party-goers will be mentally and emotionally connected so DJ has full control of every feeling and memory created in the crowd.
And automatic request denier.

The dial up connection hes on dosent help

*** mirror

That aol connection and his brain move around the same speed

The only thing going fast in that old mans life is the way he moves backwards towards the crap that is windows 95

Johnny, have you experienced any issues running scratchlive on your commedore 64?

C'mon now,

The more you guys rub Johnny the wrong way, the ashier he gets.

lol

LOL....

You guys have irritated the old guy so much I'm wondering why he hasn't told y'all to kiss his ash?

Ashy Larry ... Aka ash McGee aka ashy 95 aka ashy ...... .....

Born on ash wednesday

This is funny...

The ability to controls one's emotions over the internet is astounding. - DJJOHNNYM

+1

Who are you again?

Someone trying to gain noteriety off of my fame?

Silly boy.

You're like a FAKE AZZ "Black One"...lol...

And THAT'S ironic...

johnnym is famous now? lol?

I must be since you follow me from thread to thread...

It's all good in da hood...

Stay tuned... :-)

we are all just your puppets.

Guess its true what they say....some artists wont be famous till they deseaced

Ya dude dont make your name off the deseaced, who are you jayz? Lol

**** cue in the pile of ash******

Every thread. Every gawdamn thread.

Say what you want, they baited him. He wasn't even a presence in another thread till people were gathering around the bathroom mirror saying "D-J-JOHN-NY" like it was a game of bloody mary or something: serato.com

I think the evidence shows that there's a coordinated, clandestine movement to distract the masses with continuous JohnnyM jokes and undermine this topic because "real DJs" are skurred of new technology.

</conspiracy>

Wait. Are you saying that people baited him to create a thread? lmao

The control they must have!!!!!!

hahahahaha

nm

Does anyone remember when there was least a SMALL chance that any given thread on here wouldn't rapidly descend into incomprehensible shite?

I miss those days.

johnnym aka Watchwww.youtube.com

holy out of whack batman! just listened to that DJ Rukus disco remix of Diamonds and that just ain't right....

whooops! wrong thread....carry on! :)

Man, it comes with the territory....

Some people have figured it out....

Some haven't.... : -)

is that ash or flour?????

Wow, I can't believe this really happened!

*sigh*

ssl mods need to have a timeout forum for akiem, johnny, bezzle and sixxx when they get to playground bully status. grown men in timeout. smh

Captain Save A Hoe to the rescue? lmao

nm

king small dick back again

Another hilarious one... www.6speedonline.com

^^^ LoL... Futile attempt to get this thread back on topic... ain't gonna happen.

Every post has a report button if you have a problem.

You must like dicks if you're even considering a man's penis size.

Give Mr Cee a call

nm

That's too difficult for him to comprehend.

nm

Oh snap...

Pretty much...

Still worried about a grown man's skin texture...

Some would have thougth you would have gotten the hint...

But hey, carry on...

It's actually the reverse.... :-)

Carry on...

like im going to report a post on the ssl board. its not offensive, its just boring and confusing to anyone that actually comes here for info.

It takes just a couple minutes on the forum to recognize a thread by this dude will yield 0.
No one came in here disappointed the future of DJ tech is not seriously being discussed.

lol....

Please continue...

Exactly.

So what's good Moe?

I hear you're on the path to being a model neighbor these days....

Sure it can...

We're back.... :-)

What's got me curious right now is wearable computing, with Google Glass and the like.

Seems like we're not too far away from walking into the booth with our glasses, wristwatch, or implant; connecting to the equipment wirelessly, and having all of our music ready to go.

Serato Face takes on a whole different meaning when you're basically looking up and left slightly all night...

If you THINK about it, if technology advances to the point of what you say, we as DJ's would actually LOOSE a LOT, since most music would be digitally managed, thus, MORE BIG BROTHERNESS, virtual licenses to play, instant fines, the whole gambit...

Wrong.

Dude EVEN YOU know that with the advancement of technology, DJ'ing as it stands TODAY will fade to black...

Or at LEAST become a much more licensed and controlled environment....

Then again, I HAVE been known to have given you too much credit....

Is that why u have no credit left?

NoCred<---stuck

Ahh....

That's what I like to see....

Support for his fellow man..

Ladies and Gentlemen of the board, may I present...

www.djjohnnym.com

The WONDER TWINS.....

Y'all click rings and all that too?

Sitting back relaxed, secure with the knowledge the deceased has been bodied, skirt pulled, truth revealed, no credits, no tractions. No reasons eve read a post, maybe skim through - eh whatever

Oh, so you have to explain to the board WHY you choose not to respond?

lol, like they care....

And like I say, 'Even in Death" I haunt you...

You'll never get a job at Rane by running away from problems...

That's how they advance....

Anyone want a martini? Bout to light up a Cohiba.

LMAO! You know you be drankin' Cosmo's......

Ah, screw it. No point even bothering to TRY having a decent thread on here now.

Wouldn't be so bad if the shit was actually funny to anyone apart from the people writing it.

Don't pay attention to them, they're on a mission... :-)

Back on topic...

Like I said -

MIGHT have a chance if the thread starter had some credibility or decorum.

i.imgur.com

www.djjohnnym.com
Don't pay attention to them...

They're harmless.....

This is what they "Do"...

That's the problem Akiem. Nobody round here is mature enough to just close a door on a dumb thread and start over. I've had altercations with Johnny in the past, but this a new thread, with some merit. Why be a dick about it?

Ok Johnny... One more go.

I hear you about the digital side (we're talking cloud really, right?) but that's pretty inevitable regardless isn't it?

Just as society is largely dropping physical media, surely the end point is gonna be that we just don't own our music anyway... I don't much like the idea, but in the software domain, it's already happening (see Adobe Creative Cloud).

If every DJ has every released track available to them, do we actually all end up being producers after all, because that's the only way to stand apart from other DJs or the inevitable robots...

That would suck for me 'cos I'm shit at producing.

But the truth is that DJ's are TRULY uneducated in the actual "Business" of DJ'ing...

We've NEVER owned the songs in terms of having the ability to play them out in public...

That is a constant law, (that's always overlooked and up until the digital age, REALLY couldn't be enforced), but now cats are all into technology and digitizing everything, which is great, but will eventually be our downfall..

OR AT LEAST be able to get rid of the "Fly By Night" DJ's....

Look at Youtube and Soundcloud killing DJ "Mixes"...

It will only get tighter...

In terms of 'live' DJing though, won't the onus remain on venues to ensure proper licensing though?

Definitely an interesting aspect to consider. I've been posting some YouTube videos lately and it's fascinating to see which countries block which tracks.

Perhaps we'll all start having to upload our mixes to 'Chinacloud' or something, or wherever else the last country is that doesn't care about copyright.

You're in the UK, correct? I do believe "Live" venue DJ'ing licensing is different over there...

Over here, as of right now, I haven't run into places that sweat what you play, but that may not be true for all of the US.

If you've got a track that you've "Created" then it won't matter where you host it, but you can best believe a commercially available track will soon be able to be "Locked" by the artist themselves if they want to distribute it "Themselves"...or at LEAST be tracked as to how may downloads, plays, etc..etc...

It will be cool and cold at the same time...

That's what I posted earlier in the thread.

Completely relevant to the thread and interesting, but of course Johnny gave it no notice because it wasn't about HIM.

How *does* one get old enough to have near-adult offspring, and yet retain an astounding level of self-absorption? And have time for many hours a day posting worthless crap on a message board?

It takes practice, but this isn't about me...

Back "On Topic".... :-)

"On topic" gets no notice.

Unless maybe it's incendiary...

hmm...

oookayy....

stupid old ashy-ass no-life troll, read this: phys.org

Optical scanning of vinyl records FTW.

you're an idiot for posting about a "new development" from the 1970's.

There, are we now "On Topic"?

Wow, so I missed something....

Yes, we're back on topic... :-)

phat bob actual worked a miracle and got this thread , nice work.

Man, people have been complaining about this dude shitting on the forum for years. over half a decade he has been destroying legit threads. mods unbanned him - so it is what it is.



...anyway since the convo is kinda dead here and Im a good sport. I think there will be a split between "live production" and "record playing" both will depend greatly on algorithms and live feedback which most like will allow almost anyone to DJ, or replace DJs all together.

discussion?

See I was actually interested to hear your thoughts on this Akiem as I know you're convinced that we'll all just be replaced by robots or whatever...

I wonder if a new scene will spring up, like acoustic bands, where people will flock (in smaller numbers) to see a 'real' DJ.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

It's already been a reality for years that computers are able to duplicate musicianship previously exclusive to live bands/musicians and they haven't replaced them. I think the idea that robots will completely replace live DJs is similarly flawed.

premis of a complete 100% takeover is incorrect. In every past discussion Ive made sure to make it clear that humans will always want to see other humans perform.

second - a head dude standing on stage who pressed the on button and fist pumps will work too.

lastly - there are plenty venues where seeing a guy up in a booth maybe doing something is just not needed.

But yes the obvious paradigm pattern is how DJs did in fact take over a whole lot of the musicians territory - I expect about the same thing.

"Current" future of club djing seems to be usb sticks and pio cdj's. Even though i prefer techs myself, this is where its heading for the most part, where i am at. Away with the laptop for club use, in with small storage units directly connected to the players. Maybe ipad as a "semi serato" solution with those player will become a more popular solution. But for now i think usb will be the most popular format, due to the disposable nature. I dont think motion sensor stuff will be a common form of djing, ever.

This dude has been around for decades; from DMC megamix vinyl to premixed DAT tapes to premixed CDs to Ableton sets. He's not replacing anything; he's a constant. Even then, to even get that far someone still has to build the mix to begin with; doesn't your theory assume complete (or near-complete) automation of both the track-selection process as well as the actual mix?



Agreed... why some of them haven't been replaced yet is beyond me; there's already a whole host of "mixing optional" DJ's out there making a living that would have been replaced looooong ago if technical ability were the determining factor in whether or not they got ousted in favor of a cheaper, more skilled robot (like an itunes playlist).



When did this take place exactly, the 40's? DJ's have been around for a looooong time...

On the subject of CDJs, I was pretty blown away recently at a Pioneer demo event by their wifi stuff.

Whilst I'm not sold on the idea of PLAYING tracks from an iPad, with the 2000 NXS you can use it to browse and load the media from your hard drive or USB/SD. It's pretty compelling and elegant when you see it in action.

If I wasn't an open-format DJ, and could get by with a couple of thousand tracks (and I was RICH), I'd certainly be tempted. It seems very 'future' compared to rocking up with a whole computer...

Yep, thats what I meant by saying: "semi-serato" setup.

right - just a existing element that will make this possible

the someone who will build the mix is the computer.



right - now suppose an itunes "dj" had the option to use a software which actually mixed songs for him.



yes, DJ have been around a long time, but compared to musicians? musicians ben around well forever.


recorded music - why do we need a guy to play it again?

did you know there was a time when people actually had to control motor vehicles, they did not drive themselves!

I've been looking into something similar regarding using Touch OSC with Traktor to better control fx, sample decks and other features that would be difficult to map intuitively to my existing controller (yeah, I know... blasphemy, but Serato's decision to abandon the A&H Xone DX coupled with my decision to keep using it has me dancing with the proverbial devil).

Touchscreen (ipad) assisted or DJing is probably here to stay.

Especially as a control surface is proof of less need of tactile control for many "DJ". And yes that started with CDJ, ends with ipad (or whats next) and is a trajectory pointing away from hands on control. (the musician being the source of that hands on trajectory) - it ends with 0 controls - lol

(btw fuck a snitch)

I agree with that for sure. If you look at the way computing is going, clearly the big players (Apple, MS) are viewing touch interfaces as the immediate future.

I don't think the tech is quite there yet, but I look at my 2-year old daughter operating my iPad, and have to wonder what will happen when a whole generation has grown up with touch interfaces as an everyday thing.

yes - If you remember I time before the internet, considering what its like to grow up with it being so common and pervasive - what technological advances will have the same impact?

The thing with DJing (outside of turntablism) whats needed to pull it off might take plenty of human skill and practice but the TYPE of skill (I think) will be easily approximated, done exceedingly better, or ultimately not needed as a trade-off.

If we take sync for example - what does it require with turntables? It takes some real practice getting the touch right, understanding beat count.. etc. What does it take if you have auto sync? press a button.

The easier software makes it to DJ by performing tasks or making those tasks obsolete the easier it will be for a completely automated system.

Anyplace where the human performance is not whats important the completely automated system will work perfectly.

This is the tricky part. If automated systems haven't replaced DJs who basically sit behind a console and play songs back-to-back with -zero- mixing and -zero- mic work by now I don't think it's going to happen.

hmm, I guess thats like saying automated cars havnt taken over yet imo.

I think we are in the very dawn of a type of information exchange between learning data bases and human interaction. Right now we see the collection of huge amounts of data. And we see simple systems for looking at very specific slices of that data. What we dont see is how that data will be "processed" in order to make certain types of predictions. When the right learning, self adjusting algorithms are in place...

take this tech for example www.huffingtonpost.com use it to predict what the best song to play next is based on whatever known factors can be placed into the system

personally I think we are near computing which will act like its reading our minds based on what data can be poured into it.

when those type things are implemented there will be good reason to put the system on auto pilot. same as turning the car over to auto so you can do 80 during rush hour two feet from the car in front and back

People won't "Flock" anywhere to see anybody, as with the advancement of technology, it will either be "virtual" or via the internet....

:-)

The idea of a DJ was to bring the "DJ's" message to the crowd. He had exclusives, etc, and people would go hear him play.

The days of exclusives are over...

And the days of people going to see a "Specific" DJ are ALMOST over as most music is available to anybody these days...

So enter the era of the DJ having to CATER to the people. That takes away the uniqueness of said DJ, as it almost doesn't matter what the DJ wants to play versus, what the people want to hear...

Add in the ability to collect a playlist from EACH person of what they currently have in rotation, who enters the club, create a dynamic play list of that...

And boom, you have a list of songs that has something for everyone....

Minimal DJ "Input" would actually be necessary.

USB sticks and Pio's are already the "NOW" in a lot of places.

Yes, laptops will disappear as maybe Serato will build a small OS into their devices, and eliminate the entire MAC vs. PC debate altogether.

Create some navigation tool to select the songs, and maybe a small portable monitor, and you're good.

Music will eventually be stored on "Clouds" in their entirety, so no "supposed" backup issues, ...ever...

Except if you don't pay your bill.

hahaha

I don't think CDJ's are part of any real "future" at all. Pioneer has managed to drag out the technology long past its expiration date via aggressive marketing, sponsored giveaways and an insane level of product-placement (like near-every "EDM" music-video made in the last few years).

$4,000 for a pair of fancy CD players in 2013 is just idiotic. It will only get more idiotic as non-application-specific portable computer hardware grows less expensive, and ever more powerful and reliable.

Plus Pioneer is operating that area of its business at huge losses: www.twice.com

"Although sales of DJ equipment rose, sales of optical-disc-drive-related products declined substantially"

^ yup. Turntables will outlast CDJs as choice.

Watchwww.youtube.com

Right now im seeing two distinct divergences occurring. Im only relaying what im seeing in my immediate area but heres what i see.

Club crowd:

This is the same crowd its always been, this crowd will never change, their sheep and their there to look cool and get laid, they want to hear what they know and whats hot they couldnt care about any creativity from the dj. The tech pretty much exists now to automate them and its not as high tech and expensive as everyone always makes it out to be, a microsoft kinect can already distinguish a persins face so it can identify how many people are on the floor and a simple algorithm could be made to determine how many people leave the floor per song, put a kinect on the dance floor and one on the bar, set parameters on what geners are acceptable and let it do the rest. These people are sheep they want to hear what they know so all the system needs to do is play radio bs. A human could be used to take requests or make changes to the course of the night.


The underground/event crowd

This used to be the scene that was all about the music/dj but the edm crowd has turned this into a gimmick, people used to come to hear a particular djs set now thats the last thing they care about. Now its all about the partys gimmik. We have paint partys practically every week and people pack them out without knowing who the dj is. Recently i spoke with a promi group about booking a big name headliner, they started a poll to see what people wanted at the next party, the big name dj got NO votes, people wanted dance contests, raffles, more paint, black lights ect ect. Essentiallt THEY want to be the star so i think the music could easily be automated easily because the djs all play the same tempo anyway and the future of the dj is who can interact with the crowd best ie masks supersoakers cake ect ect....the future of this crowd is for the dj to be an entertainer. As an example i played an adventure time themed warehouse ravethis weekend and they set ALL of the lights in front of the dj stage so noone could see who was playing, most people said tjey liked that and noone at any point knew or cared who was playin

I run with a promo group that is runnin shit on the coast, all younger guys NONE of them use cds or TTs, everyone in this scene runs traktor and controllers, none if them care what equipment any ine uses, none of em care if the older generation respects them, none of em care about developing and skill beyond finding blazing hot tracks and playing them back to back and crowds dont seem to give a damn either. So thats the next gen whos goin to take the reins so personally imho i think the culture of djing is dead, at least the culture i signed up for, and in the next 10 to 15 years i think the "art" will be completly unrecognizable and at this point i can say i personally dont give a damn, thats why im puttin in the prep work to get my standup career goin lol

Looks like it did Gaffle.
And Warpnote, Motion based controllers for the win!
Skrillex has a performance that's all motion sensored out!

All tracks will be released to DJs as stems so Live remixing of any tracks will be possible...

WOTCH.

It will be interesting to see if the artist would actually want to ALLOW that type of freedom for their work WITHOUT compensation, OR if they will come up with some type of digital royalty payment system for creating such a mix, AND playing it live.

You technically already have the RIGHT to make as many "Remixes" as you want, but you have NO LICENSE to actually play it out in public....

They already watermark downloads, so that filesharing will become a thing of the past, unless of course you convert back to analogue to remove the fingerprints and then re-record.

Already happening
www.native-instruments.com

Completely wrong. You have the right and license to remix or alter any song as much or as little as you want and play it out in public. If you play it in certain establishment they pay a fee to BMI/ASCAP. Remixing is not illegal. - ha!

That is the SOFTWARE vendor that is allowing that to happen.

How does the artist feel about that, and/or the record companies if there was any monetary gain to be won or lost?

Most companies have conceded to allowing purchase of songs for .99 cents to combat "File Sharing", so at LEAST they get a little bit vs. none at all.

That's IF you hook up with a place that PAYS A FEE to BMI/ASCAP.

Nobody said Remixing is illegal. You can do that all day long.

SHARING the REMIX or playing it out loud for "Performance" IS technically "Illegal".

Obviously just like any record, remixed or not.


No it is not.

Sure "sharing" the file is illegal without license, sharing ANY song remixed or not is illegal remixing it makes no difference.

If I am playing a club or public it's perfectly legal for me to play an original, or a remix I made at home, no difference.

As long as the club is paying BMI/ASCAP, I can play REMIXES I made all night long.

If I give out mixes, that would be illegal file sharing - but just playing a remix is perfectly legal.

ha

We're basically saying the SAME THING...but how many clubs/establishments in the US actually pay those BMI/ASCAP fees?

plenty

Obviously if you play a song in a club not paying its dues it is illegal. That goes for ANY song REMIXED or not.

If you are in public or in an establishment where dues are paid - you can play any song, or any REMIX and it is perfectly legal.

REMIXING changes nothing in regard to playing it out wherever.

can't see how we are saying the same thing.



This statement is false.

The license is through ASCAP/BMI in a club - or perfectly legal in PUBLIC.

and it's not "technically" a right, it's an obvious right

We both agree on that.



We both agree on that ALSO.



You're going by the premise that the place has a license BY DEFAULT.

I am not.



That is IF you're at a place that has a "License".

You assume they do.

I assume they don't.

That's crazy that you guys seem to concurr that a lot of venues in the US don't pay the required licensing.

In the UK, they're like, super-efficient. Even the smallest store or business playing music with the public in earshot gets the knock on the door...

So you think native instruments is getting the stems to big songs and giving/selling them without the consent of the artist/label....interesting

Mine definatly didnt

That's because Johnny hasn't left the basement in years. The fact is, and yes, it's a fact, they've been crackin' on clubs, venues, restaurants and ANY place that place music to the public for the last 2 years non-stop. I know this because I attended a couple of conventions in the last 2 years and it was the same story - lots of small place restaurants/clubs, wanna-be-clubs etc, owners that were fighting lawsuits for back payment of fees.

So, as a DJ, many may not realize if the joint you're playing at has the right license for you to play there... but you can ask.

That is definately NOT the case here...

You know what?

I guess it depends on what a "Renowed" artist is considered....

SOME artists would LOVE someone to Remix their jawn and make it hot, while others may not want them to touch it...

Interesting....

That may be happening on the WEST coast, but nobody is making bones about it over here...

None of the DJ's that I know have run into this problem.

The MOST that they run into, and it's only fairly recently, is that places HAVE been asking the DJ to be "Insured"...

Which johnny are we discussing?

I can speak from experience it is pretty damn close to the truth

most clubs or lounges with djs, at least in my area, get a knock sooner or later. Its like a grand or was few years ago. I think it is a worthwhile tax, but that being said, i wouldnt wanna pay it either.

So then you DO have license to play a remix out in public.


Like I said.










No I am not. If a place has a license BY DEFAULT, you don't need one in the first place.

Otherwise, sure you can call it DEFAULT as in there has to be a law put in place to make it illegal. But I can't see how that has anything to do with the discussion.

If you are legally able to play a song, you are legally able to play a REMIX of it. Period.



No, I don't.

An establishment ether has a license or they don't - I'm not assuming anything.

If they have license to play a song, they have the license to play a remix. If they have no license to play a song, they have no license to play a remix.



You said "in public" maybe you meant "in public" as in an establishment which is supposed to pay performance rights?

Even then it makes no difference if its a REMIX or not. Clearly you were saying something about REMIXES, and not just ANY music in general.

especially in the context of your previous paragraph:

Clearly you were making a distinction between a "REMIX" being played 'someplace'.

Home made remix, or original song makes absolutely no difference when it comes to performance rights.

My guess is you have never played in a fee paying club to know the difference (unlike the og guy)




AND even if they come up with a proper system for tracking club spins, it will probably still not matter if it is a remix or not.


There are some good reasons the powers that be do not want individual club spins counted.






The US is a big place, lots of different jurisdictions and different ways shit happens. There are probably a lot of variables in play as to if a club can get away without paying the mob, er I mean BMI/ASCAP.

Can you two please stop fuckin arguing over stupid ass little unimportant shit.


You clog the forum with your virtual pissing contest every day, its getting annoying.


You have differing opinions, we don't need a fuckin novel written everytime you two disagree.

Shit reminds me of one of them harry potter movies.

JM ssays its leviOsa

Akiem writes a novel about how its LeviosAA

just fuckin battle each other already.

Problem is its not opinion I it's incorrect facts.

There was a time when someone was incorrect about something they would just say "oh really, I didn't know that". Now yes there is mad squirming around.

So if everyone votes for this forum to now include incorrect information along with everything else fine

Its not incorrect facts, its a beef between you two.

You both look to jump down the others throats every chance you get, and this forum has turned into your own pissing match.

Everytime this happens, we get novel long threads, threads locked, its played, you both need to grow up.

Im waiting for the response that says "He started it"

That's how childish its gotten lately.

Case in point: serato.com

.

How about start a thread on the subject as not to destroy this thread?

I certainly don't have a problem discussing how the forum has been disrupted. And what should, could be done about it.

Lol - shit there's FIVE years worth of cases - lol

lol ok that was funny

Ill battle him...heres my submission

Watchwww.youtube.com

its as easy as, 'lets agree to disagree'.

I actually thought we were getting along pretty well in this thread.

Oh well.

LMAO!

How is licensing and the possibility of not being able to play music in for a public performance remixed or otherwise not important?

Anyway it is perfectly legal to remix, mash up, re-encode or whatever else you want to do to a song and play it in public, or play it in a club.

If the club is not taking care of its licenses and fees (in the US) it's the clubs issue not the DJs. And really does not matter if it is a remix or not.



This is just flat wrong. Yes you do have the right to play a remix in public, same as any other not-remixed record. It makes no difference.

If the club isn't paying its fees to ASCAP, that's a completely different issue. Same as if its breaking noise ordinance - doesn't matter if its a REMIX.


Even if the original artist fucking hates it, makes them sound stupid, there is absolutely nothing they can do about someone playing the remix.

It is illegal to sell it or give it away - but not play it.



In the future there could be some changes to how clubs pay for performance rights. It might end up being based on spins because the technology is there - but there will be some serious issues to deal with. Personally I think the powers that don't want it to happen because it would mean less money for the major publishing holders. There is A LOT of music being played where no money is reaching the owner because its not charting or being sold.

I forgot who else on here was trying to say it was illegal to remix, mash up, or change a song from its original sound. Had to do with some crooklyn clan nonsense.

" None of the DJ's that I know have run into this problem."

Of course not, it's not their concern. It's the venue's.

nm

hahaha

"My guess is you have never played in a fee paying club to know the difference (unlike the og guy)"

they aren't - these days you need to make your own exclusives. It's why producers are getting more play and money for their "performances" than proper DJs.

THIS!!

But did you see what you just wrote?

In order to have an "Exclusive", you'd have to become a "Producer/DJ".

And like the majority of DJ's have?

Fantasy.

which is the only viable future when it comes to djing, just playing records is over

That was hardly the point. Obviously the majority of "DJs" have ALSO never played in a club where dues were paid. And most DJs probably had no clue, same as as most DJ have no clue if the club paid its electric bill on time. It's not really any of the DJs business. And most DJs probably have no idea how intellectual property rights work, and how artists are in fact compensated for DJs playing records in clubs who pay fees. You fit in the category of most DJs. No shame, but...

...the truth is it makes no difference if a song is remixed, mashed up, screwed, it is still legal to play in a club same as the original the artist intended.

Which makes this statement false.

But, my free drinks that I got paid with are legal right?
Also, they let two friends in...

#winning

What you're saying is that if a Club is paying fees to BMI/ASCAP, the they can have a DJ who plays ANYTHING, originals, remixes, etc...

No kidding.

I'M saying the BULK of DJ's aren't PLAYING in a Club or place that pays BMI/ASCAP fees, so NO they technically aren't allowed to play those BMI/ASCAP songs for public performance.

How many do you think on here actually play at a place that pays these fees?

Unless you two can post some actual numbers, this is going to go on forever.

What's the whole point of this argument again?

nm

Here you go:

www.wikihow.com

Quote fail. I suck.

The law suites and tons of news storts were my first clue lol

O K A Y..... then why did you say...



Are you really trying to say that you were not making a distinction between a RIMIX and original cuts?

And you really think so few clubs pay fees that speaking in general it is just assumed that "no one" has the rights to DJ around here.

This is just ridiculousness - obviously for some reason you were saying there are different rights issues between playing a REMIX and an ORIGINAL.


And your paragraph just before:

And how is an artist uncompensated for "such a mix"?

What are you talking about - ha, artist okaying non-pay clubs somehow?

(LMAO - at all the maneuvering trying to make this work)



Dude, quit lying and just admit you thought artists are not being payed royalties from remixes played in clubs.

This part of the argument is to obscure where the dude was wrong, it's a side non-issue.

LMAO

The hand gestures and shit...


Nm

Absolutely, because I was talking to Bezzle about "Stems"...in that particular instance.



smh...

It's a NO BRAINER that clubs or establishments that PAY this FEE are "legally" allowed to let you play out...

MOST of us DJ's don't play at those types of clubs....but if you have numbers to show otherwise, post away.



There is no ridiculousness, except the fact that you are excluding the fact that I was referring to the "Stems" part of the conversation....



Ummm...if you JUST REMIX IT, and distribute it...




You're trying really hard to prove me "wrong" in something...as usual.



You must be smokin' that stuff again...

If the song, or HELL even if a REMIX is being played in a club that ISN'T paying those fees, YOU'RE telling me they magically get a royalty check?

Oh, wait, you DJ in a "Legal" spot...

How ironic...

No, this is the part of the argument where you take the EXCEPTION vs. the Common Rule...

But yeah, this "argument" is about "Licensing" which has been an issue forever, and not necessarily new technology....

But continue...

Right. you were making a distinction about stems and remixes as in how performance rights royalties are paid.



nothing Im saying depends on any numbers.

YOU are trying to say the obvious normal default is clubs dont pay, its a given in any discussion.

true or not, we both know thats not what you were talking about.




LMAO - yes, you were obviously talking about stems/remixes as apposed to original cuts - so then we agree - LMAO



LMAO even more - now you want to bring "distribute" into it - not just DJs playing in clubs?

classic!



No, I proved you wrong from the start - all this is you just trying to ridiculously transform what you said into something passable as maybe sounding correct




whats ironic? oh this would not be one of those BS slick remark you claim everyone is throwing at you would it?

Let me see, the irony is suposed to be - since Im such a criminal type, how is it that I have played in fee paying clubs across the land and actually collect checks from performance rights royalties. While mr proper citizen has been stuck twenty years playing in some bar no one ever heard of to even collect from? Is that it?

LMAO - maybe "crime pays" - LMAO

Right, you are trying to say the "common rule" is clubs dont pay - the "exception" is the ones that do. Therefore...
...is suposed to make some kind of sense.

Its obvious you thought MAKING a remix is perfectly legal, as apposed to PLAYING it in PUBLIC (even if you ment non-paying club) because the artist wont see the royalty.

Trying to make it about playing a remix in a club is not legal because (commonly) clubs dont pay fees - just so happens that playing the original is illegal too and just mentioning remixes specifically for no reason = LMAO

"MOST of us DJ's don't play at those types of clubs....but if you have numbers to show otherwise, post away."

Actually, if you have numbers to PROVE that MOST of us DJ's don't play at those type of clubs.. .please post.

Like I said, unless you TWO are posting any numbers. Neither one is going to win this argument.

nm

Don't say MOST unless you can prove by posting numbers that prove that MOST is true.


nm

but like I said - the argument is not about these numbers.

This dude could be completely correct about fee paying clubs are a very rare exception - THIS statement will still be wrong:

he was trying to angle the argument off into something he thought he could sound right about

lol - he wasnt even saying 'most' - he was just acting like it was a given known fact default

And who cast that first stone again?



C'mon son, you've got to do better.

I'm tired of quoting, so AGAIN, for the last time...

And you can slice it up in any way you like...

MOST DJ's don't understand the BUSINESS of DJ'ing when it comes to playing music for "Performance" reasons.

Most commercial music is not Licensed to be played in your "Average Club, Bar, Hole in the wall, etc", UNLESS said Club, Bar, Hole in the wall pays BMI/ASCAP fees..

In my experience, I have NOT run into ANY one of those places in the Tri-State Area that enforce that rule and pay a fee. So TECHNICALLY, to play those songs, it's illegal. Remix, Original, whatever...so you might loose 1 millisecond of sleep.

Now if you're lucky enough to be in a Club.Bar, Hole in the wall that PAYS those fees, you can rest assured that you're good, and can enjoy a full nights rest after playing those Originals and Remixes if you want, and nobody will be coming for you or the location to pay fines...

That is all.

Watchwww.youtube.com

Back on topic... I'd like to see wireless speaker tech progress further; not sure how they'll overcome the latency though.

lol, ok. On to the next one...

That is actually quite funny...I'll give you that one.

All we need is a way to Dj without any limbs... just pure brain power. Make it so that our minds can create something like this: youtu.be

How is that throwing stones? I guessed correct, you said yourself - only bars you've played are small joints off the radar.

The dude you "obtained" your name from been played all types of fresh clubs in your area.

I'm not busting any shots - shits the truth ain't it?




And this is just strange to say. Maybe you meant most bars/clubs do not pay fees therefore can't legally play ANY published music. Not sure why you say "commercial". The music isn't "licensed", clubs pay a fee. Maybe just strange wording.....

But this is still just plain wrong:

You can keep on saying all types of whatever shit ^ that is still wrong no matter how you try to wriggle around. I'm pretty sure you know you were wrong, just can't bring yourself to admit it.

You want to talk future tech now that's settled :)

Nm

LMAO @ "Fresh" Clubs in "My Area"... Like NJ is 1 block wide.

CTFU @ "Obtained", and I see your attempt to derail and lock, so I will leave it alone. :-)

The ONLY thing that I DIDN'T know via this discussion was actually what Bezzle posted of "Reknown" artists supplying stems...

So, yeah...I confess I didn't know that...and he actually posted a link... :-).

Next topic.

Dude was always talking like the spokesmen for the whole Tri-State, now NJ alone is a big bad wilderness of unknowns.




Shit, I said "obtained" to be ambiguously nice about how he obviously "acquired" the name.

I'm not trying to derail the thread, just answering the comments. Remember, I'm not allowed to bring any of our discussion to a PM because this guy will snitch. And I'm not trying to lock the thread at all - lmao - ain't this the cat crying and getting threads completely removed? Please.


If so this would not have been said: and this BS about clubs not paying for performance rights is comical. I'm the one who brought it up to explain how the shit works.

Funny thing is, way back when this fella first appeared on this forum, I though, 'hmmm this dude sounds familiar.' And gave some credit and some benefits of doubt (even tho he was only here to troll and damage the integrity of the place. Didn't even own the product till he needed to get unbanned) And all this time it was because he "gifted" himself with the real dudes name.

Now I understand why his credits is really so low - was faking the funk from day one with a known DJs name. explains oh so much.

So yeah I can see where advancement in technology leads to very strict automatic reporting of individual spins. I wonder if you will have to register DJ names as well with the system, might stop all the masquerading and shits- hmmm.

What the HELL are you talking about? You sent me a PM and I didn't respond? And pointed to a THREAD to respond? GTFOOH. I never told anybody you sent me PM...

Ask any mod.

Maybe they just SAW that you did, as they can read PM's...duh.

And besides, you don't mean enough to me to talk behind the scenes.

And as far as "snitching"..lmao

Here you go not being man enough to start your own "Snitch" thread, and instead ask CMOS to do it for you ...lmao.



Like someone really wants to discuss that other than you...

LOL @ your Jailhouse lingo...

Figures...

Here is the PM you sent me..



WTF does that even MEAN?

I just ignored it...

It's a link to a thread?

Oh, I get it, you wanted me to keep the drama going...

Gotcha....

smh....

Old people problems....

Ok, I think I understand now...

Somebody got in your PM box and told you to fall back...

So you ASSUMED I told them something....

Well, I challenge you to name that Mod AND ask him in front of the entire forum if I TOLD them to go after AKIEM.

There, that should do it.

You know what?

Forget that...

I'll be the bigger man...

Back on topic. :-).

www.djjohnnym.com

Probably go to 4G!

So yeah, everybody's music will probably wind up on some cloud somewhere...

Does that mean the end of fearing "Backups"?

Watchwww.youtube.com

LMAO!

NOW I understand why YOU said this ->



Ha ha..

Y'all give me too much credit....

Really...

Back to our regularly scheduled programming!

Not much future tech in this thread... think I might have to untrack ;)

Nah man, those are my distractors, there's a mission here...

You (and I) have to simply ignore them... :-)



What do you think about Serato making their OWN OS?

Only thing true in all that emotion up there.

This dudes been snitching for years and forgot all the where and when. No, I'm not going to bother a mod, and that wasn't the PM I'm talking about. This dude sent an email to complain about me sending him a PM.i don't have any problem taking a disagreement to PM this dude will snitch tho (or is it this dude?)

Facts remain where we started, 1 this is incorrect:
2 this dude been using a known DJs name from his area for years now.


LMAO All the sudden he wants to play by the rules? LMAO





Aight back to technology - everyone is predicting the cloud is the future. I disagree unless there is some sort of 'force' applied to the market. For certain things sure, but for DJing, nah. The size of drives are damn near infinity compared to what any DJ actually plays. Even keeping a huge library to fill requests is pretty much achieved. Drive space will always trump the bottleneck of a connection imo. I doubt RIAA could ever convince everyone to adopt some "secure" format and make computers with tiny drives.

Yep, as expected...

But back to the thread.... :-)



That would be foolish of the RIAA to even attempt such a thing.

THEY DID however get at the computer manufacturers in the past to try and implement a technology that would forbid the end user to make direct CD dupes, by building something into the hardware....

That was met with massive pushback because folks just started NOT buying those particular PC's...

Stepping away from licensing tho, so as not to rehash anything, the idea of a patron with a digital license which contains for example, their current "Playlist", being scanned while entering a club to help populate a "Playlist" will become something that will further eliminate the DJ as what we perceive them today.

Also, upon EXIT of the club, scanning AGAIN, so their songs can be REMOVED from the nights playlist, (assuming they're leaving before the club closes), would be cool too...

the more you rub a snitch the more ash you get!!!!

Doubt that ever happens - sounds like a bad Sci-Fi B movie. What club is going to want any playlist of a 'patron'? No one wants to collect a data base of unplayable Barbra Striesand like crap - ridiculous.

A playlist a club develops will come from radio/sales charts, or possibly other clubs playlists if the data is shared.

LMAO - don't tell me this dude checks out patrons iPods looking for good shit to play - LMAO

Pretty sure this dude just wants the discussion about who he "acquired" his name from to go away.

WTF does that even MEAN?


BTW if I may interject - what that shows is this dudes lone 'supporter' of his 'Barbra Striesand is Classic Rock' theory changed his mind right away. no cred

What's this? We're actually on topic...

Well, for those who remember, the RIAA did try such a thing - multiple times.

The most hilarious of them occurred just shy of a decade ago. It was the DRM on the Sony and BMI compact disc that could quite literally be defeated by running a Sharpie along the outer edge of the disc (I heard Scotch tape worked as well). Not that it really mattered. If you had auto-run disabled, Nero Burning ROM copied it anyway.

You'd think Sony would learn... They and BMI were caught packing rootkits onto CDs that would install when users inserted them into their computers. The first iteration of this was on about 50 albums and affected Windows users only. The second iteration was on another 50 albums and affected both Windows and Mac OS X users alike.

Never forget that this is the same company who said (in 2000), quote:
"The industry will take whatever steps it needs to protect itself and protect its revenue streams... It will not lose that revenue stream, no matter what... Sony is going to take aggressive steps to stop this. We will develop technology that transcends the individual user. We will firewall Napster at source - we will block it at your cable company. We will block it at your phone company. We will block it at your ISP. We will firewall it at your PC... These strategies are being aggressively pursued because there is simply too much at stake."

It took a minute, but we're trying... :-)



There are the details! NICE!

So, taking all THAT into account....

Who's to say that they aren't still interested in fostering something THAT THEY CAN CONTROL, (i.e. watermarks in mp3's, digital fingerprinting, etc..), and throwing the switch?

Of course they are 'interested' - CAPABLE is another matter.

I cant wait until the day music evolves itself past the industry, that days comming quickly

Technologically CAPABLE?

I think the industry still has a chance to transform itself. My theory was always figuring out how to implement a formula where the digital music was 'free' (tolls charged where possible) and focus on percentages of artists other revenue streams. Like management companies.

They indeed are. Even the MPAA tags its screener releases with hidden watermarks so as to identify who the leak is when they get pirate.

iTunes, prior to 2009, used to employ rather strict DRM with audio files obtained from the iTunes store until they relaxed it.

We're just lucky in the states that the RIAA hasn't been able to "tax" us for optical media purchases like they did in Canada. They almost got away with "taxing" MP3 players (and by extension, smart phones) up there too.

Besides, I'm sure we've all taken note of Serato's own Whitelabel.net files which are heavily DRM locked down and many are watermarked as well.

Sure technologically capable, anything is possible. (Then again most systems are defeatable in the long run)

But market wise? People don't like all that type shit and may simply opt for artists offering music without all that nonsense.

Personally I don't use WL because l Iike the option of easily editing my files (which is perfectly legal btw-lol) even if I hardly ever do it. I also like to listen to the quality of my files outside SSL so it's easier for me to just not use them. For example.

I thought it already did...

Who REALLY needs a Record company anymore?

I haven't worried about what major contracts look like for quite a while, but if they can get a taste of that Pepsi money built in there are still good reasons for majors to exist.

LMAO!

I didn't want to bring that into the convo, but HEY, it's here now, so let's go...

Man I NEVER use those Whitelabel.net files, (that's a lie, I have one that I use...), for fear that one day, a BETTER TECHNOLOGY of DVS may appear or hell, just Music Mangement PERIOD, which we would, of course, want to migrate our music to...

But, you'd be stuck...

I don't understand cats that can't see past that....

And that's ANOTHER thing about "Throwing the switch", supposed one day, Serato went out of business, or somebody bought the patent rights to the technology unlocking Whitelabel files.....

And shelved it...

Is it Barbra Striesand?


Most charting records are throw away anyway. I've seen some archivable WL, I just go get them someplace else.

Actually, they did. That's what you were paying extra for if/when you bought CD-R's labelled for "music" use.

Wow, more derailment tactics....





Well, I'm sure we're all very interested in your thoughts on the subject...
:-)
So why don't you do as YOU requested of CMOS, and create a thread on the subject? :-)

We'll all be waiting for you over there....

Or we can stick with the subject matter here...

Possibly the most ironic thing I've read in my 8 years on this forum.

So, since the technological capability is there, it's really a matter of political / legal wave riding and implementation until "throwing the switch" comes to fruitition....

:-)

Yay, glad we managed to turn thread back around, hope we can keep it on track for a while guys!

Depends what you envision that OS to do?

If running a laptop/desktop computer, I'd say its a bad idea. The task of doing that and competing with Microsoft and Apple, and maybe linux is no small undertaking. I dont se the comercial potential. Other serato products would suffer as a consequence. And it would drive up cost of the computer hardware due to less volume than the competitors. Remember, most other brands are some sort collabs between software and hardware vendors. Main reason we see so much bloatware in win computers. Even pro Dell machines are bundled with crapware. Some serious bull right there. For serato, osx is already about as perfect as it can realisticly be.

Now, if that OS were to drive a CDJ, mixer, console etc, then thats a different matter. Think about it, most clubs have the cdj2000 these days. What if there were a small Rane usb dongle connection kit for the ipad to the cdj. Ie the cdj would load tracks from the ipad into the players, kinda like rekordbox does wireless on the nexus players, all while having the familiar ssl library interface on the ipad screen. Sort of like playing like playing from the usb stick, only a better library display, than the small cdj screen. Id buy that connection kit/software for a "serato light" setup.

Serato making their own OS would make no sense at all as things are today.

First and foremost, because the result would be less real-world utility and compatibility than we have now. Also the resource demands would likely cripple the company.

If this was 1983, an era in which both operating systems and mainstream computer hardware were completely incapable of dealing with real-time high-bandwidth audio playback, that "proprietary OS" approach would not only be sensible but necessary. The price tag (in 1983 dollars) would likely be well into six figures. Look up "Synclavier" and "Fairlight" for then-contemporary examples.

I agree...



^^This is along the lines of what I was thinking...

Doesn't even need to be a full blown OS, but something that allows management of songs...

Period...

No Mac...
No PC...

Nothing...

Can you imagine all the DJ's who would DROP LAPTOPS like a bad habit?

I'm sitting on the fence about that one...

I have a standalone deck that forces me to use blank "Music" CD's...

But that's because of the older "Technology"...

I'm not sure you can make a comparison between that and "Regular" blank CD's, that some decks (Tascam/Teac) were eventually able to use...

I can certainly imagine hardware with a very stripped down Linux system built into hardware... Don't Stanton have something like that already?

Nope. That was a totally artificial limitation, imposed by the RIAA and manufacturers in the late 90's.

There was (pro-grade) recorders before that capable of using regular CD-R's.

Its already happening, every week i talk to someone who hope to drop their laptop (both serato & traktor guys) for less bulk, more convenience, and generally more crowd interaction, ie no laptop barrier between dj and crowd. Quite a few did take the jump too. Mostly the more open format guys are sticking to their laptops, like myself. And I see even a few of them changing, they just make a usb stick for each main genre.

Sorry about the instant double, guess the ipad can screw up too, huh?

Johnny derailing his own thread. smh. I'm with Akiem on this 'something' should be done about the blatant attempt to bog these forums down with nonsensical posts, fact-less rhetoric and personal attacks..

^ lol THAT AVATAR

Pfft... GQ CD-R's from Fry's Electronics when I was younger. $9.99 for a spindle of 100 in the early-to-mid 2000's.


I recall this. I used to be amused by that fact. My cousin actually got his CD burner before I did. His was a blazing fast 8x (laugh, but it was fast at the time). We were pumping CD's with random tracks on them out of there like crazy. I ended up being the first one with a DVD-R burner at a blistering 2x write speed o_O.

Can you instant double with USB sticks in the CDJs? Seems to me like juggles and on-the-fly remixes are out of the question with the USB key...

if im not mistaken on the newest cdjs they link together so if you have a usb stick in one you can play it on the other....i may be wrong but im pretty sure you can

Wow...

Who knew?

I've got a TDK deck that damn near DEMANDS TDK Audio CD's, or else I get errors.

The crazy mess is that Audio CD's are RARE now...

My boy also has a dedicated deck, and he was like "You can still get CD's?", and I was like "Sure"....until the next time I went shopping...

So what about the Turntable guys?

I assume those who "Dropped" the laptop are using CDJ's or controllers....

I heard that....

I hope not, but wait, who invented Final Scratch?

Pretty sure the mods don't like those threads. I will just leave it here.


Scanning patrons for music (Barbra Striesand type shit) sounds like a really dumb idea.

Care to elaborate?

yup, anytime this troll type dude is completely destroyed he sets up some BS situation to play the victim roll. Pathetic init?

Yep disgrace & bezzle, the 2000 (also non nexus model) have the ethernet connection cable. One usb stick sereves both players. Btw thats not a "future" feature, the players were released in 09, so this is old news. They only have 3 cues thugh, still pretty sufficient if playing house music IMO. If playing rap, I wouldnt leave the techs in the first place.

Even if writing about cdjs for a second, i absolutely prefer techs. Its just a matter of time before tablet sized computers will match the performance of todays laptops. Well maybe not the higher end, but you get the idea. I mean, even now the macbook air is quite agile for its size. So evenually, I think we'll see tablets running dvs systems. Those tablets will most definite call for new touch-friendly user interfaces, probably with "pages" like midi controller. Have a look at current touch osc/lemur interfaces, and you know what im hinting at.

And yeah, i have seen the that current ipad app running dvs, that one dont seem ready for primetime, just yet IMO

I have that app. Even tried it with DVS.

(I buy all the iPad DJ apps. They're cheap, and fun to play with whilst travelling)

It sucks big-time.

And every new version they come out with gets worse, as they try and shoehorn yet more features into a 10" touch interface.

That one (DJ Player) is NOT the future, I can assure you...

I'm talking about this one:

www.stantondj.com

Perhaps that specific device is not aimed at the typical Scratch Live user, but it is maybe a sign of things to come.

I have it too, but never upgraded to the DVS version, didn't have the confidence in the app.

I buy a few of them myself, leisure toy while traveling, yup.

Yeah most of them do for now, so did the early laptop/desktop DJ apps too.

Yeah, and I have the ipad mini, even worse. However, once developers learn to make usable interfaces, and user customizable GUI's, then tablet computers might not be so bad, once they reach better performance of course.

Imagine they make pages (like a midi controller):
Page 1: Serato performance (decks, cues, loops, fx)
Page 2: Library only + load to deck
Page 3, and onwards: custom setup by the user, eg one page for decks only, one for FX, one for Loops/Rolls/Slicer, one for cues, one for samples, one (or several) for Serato Video / Mix Emergency, one (or several) for the bridge, etc etc....

Only time will tell though, I don't really expect that much change over the next 5 years (well, controllers flooding the market even more...), but in 10-20 years, that's another story....

The Traktor DJ app is actually the one I find myself going to most on the iPad, simply because although the features are very limited (I don't mind sync, but sync without a pitch bend facility to fix phasing is DUMB), I like the GUI the best compared to the competition.

When I'm just mixing for fun, I don't want to use an app that's been hit with the ugly stick.

Yeah, haven't dowloaded that app due to the autosync only, so, there isn't even a pitch bend?
I guess the one I play around with the most on the ipad lately is the algoriddim djay. Anything else you could recommend for killing time on the commute?

One thing is certain. NoCred isn't the right person to talk about new technology when he keeps holding on to technology that is past its efficiency date. (No turntables)

On the topic of whitelabel. I used those files for a hot minute and then stopped completely. It's so much easier, convenient and more effective to get your music from record pools especially if you're editing music or like to preview tracks while on the road, etc. Nothing beats the ability to be able to put songs on a phone or thumb drive for you to listen anywhere you want without being tied to your laptop.

On the topic of digital watermarks. They're almost useless since tracks and videos are usually shared within a tight group of friends. This isn't the Napster days when people who upload any music they possessed for anyone to share.

I kinda hope the technological advances slow down. Ever since SSL became popular you've seen more and more companies try to invent their future of DJ'ing. A Serato box, two turntables and a mixer (or all in one), I would like it to just remain there for as long as possible.


One thing I am looking for however is a sampler/beat machine/effects that I can run on the IPad and connect to the mixer. Any suggestions?

***Skipping all that other bait****

Sure,

The idea of using Billboard 100 or top selling songs and remotely programming would work, IF you want to also push NEW music...

But if an ADDED attraction is that somehow through the night, a patron could hear a song, (that fits the format of the night), that is ALSO imbedded in say an electronic license or something, that they PERSONALLY own, then that would make their club/lounge/bar experience that much more enticing.

In other words, it's like a request list, WITHOUT them actually coming up to you.

So, for example, you have a group that arrives, say on a bus ride from somewhere, going to a spot that happens to be "slow" for the night, they get admitted, scan their licenses, or whatever may house their playlist, (if they want), and the next thing you know, they're jamming to stuff that may be danceable, if that's the type of vibe, or if in a lounge, something that THEY particularly like.

Nothing dumb about that.

There is nothing wrong with using tried and true methods that happen to last for years.



Agreed.



Why would you say "Useless", when the digital watermark etc, is doing exactly what it was designed to do?

The BIGGEST issue was cats sharing music with ANY and EVERYONE...

Of course it being shared amongst tight friends is a given, but the watermarks, and threat of putting a file out in the wild with your signature on it, and say Franchise finding out that you were the source is a pretty good deterrant.

I didn't say useless. I said almost useless. For someone who likes to use MOST, it's ironic you omitted that word.

nm

"There is nothing wrong with using tried and true methods that happen to last for years."

We know now that's not why you hold on to them past their date (when you can't even find the CD's you actually need and you're limited to a special kind of disc to begin with for example). For you it's a $$$$ issue.

You can't fool anyone.

nm

I thought he said he made more money than everyone else on the forum - not true?

Again, they basically curbed the average user from sharing on a wide spread basis, so one way or another, it's been effective.

I don't know if this is available for iOS but if it is, Electrum Drum Machine/Sampler is the way to go in my opinion. I've used it on Android OS on my old Tegra 2 Tablet (Play Store: play.google.com) along with TouchDAW (Play Store: play.google.com)



I'd disagree. There's always that one friend who's going to make a copy for their self and may even share it with their friends. Next thing you know, it's online for every one to see and the originator is staring down a civil suit for "making available" (see: Jamie Thomas-Rasset).

So granted, people may not be opening their entire machines up on Napster, iMesh, KaZaA, Morpheus, Ares, etc. any longer or in possession of a directory called "My Shared Folder", but music is still proliferated and they will know who the source is with digital watermarks.

The MPAA uses this to track down who leaks screeners. It indeed does work.

Is there a reason we can't have a discussion without trying to slide it into a series of personal attacks?

Besides, we all know ninos is the one cleaning up around here.

No, it wasn't a money issue.

I wanted to burn music using a certain workflow that allowed me to basically do it ONCE, and also have a hardcopy lossless backup to go to if a better conversion technology came out.

I've got all types of PC/burners/servers/bandwidth and whatnot at my disposal. I was very deliberate with my methods.

Once I burned the "irreplaceable" stuff the way I wanted, I moved onto the Tascam mini and all is still well.

Again, it had nothing to do with money, and YES someone wanted to compare "Paychecks", and we haven't heard a peep from them since.

Funny, I still use the My Shared Folder from back in the day as my downloads/junk/unsorted crap folder.

Well that's not a personal attack. This dude several times mentioned how he makes more money than anyone else around here. If true - the statements he makes are viewed within that context. Not sure how he knows he makes more than anyone else, but to say such a thing, it must be quite a lot of fucking cream. So understanding where he is coming from - if he is truly some sort of Big Money having fellow like he claims it may change the meaning or value of the bs he is yapping about.

Hmmm...one day I have to clean that mess out...

I keep transferring it from computer to computer.... :-)

Hey, I just roll with it... :-)

Nah, this due INVENTED it - suppose he can have some credit for that :)

A direct USB slot in the Mixer (with it's own Serato File Management system) for a Harddrive with music, and ports for a small monitor/keyboard, and all would be over.

They would make a killing.

Back "on topic"

Except everything.

So lets say you as a patron are on the bus listening to your Zune which you paid some sort of extra fees or whatever in order for the license to be shared (guess exclusively with a club/dj) - jump off the bus, enter the club. As you enter you take the time or there is some sort of scanning system which acquires your playlists (and files?). - right here seems like a whole lot of expenses in the licensing and the scanning equipment to start.

DJ is playing some tunes, its a little slow, early, you stroll on up - "c'mon MAIN stop playin, and PLAY some ish from my Zune"

DJ :eyes roll: thinking 'why the fuck did they install that bullshit?'
says "hey. Well I got it covered I'm about to kick into some Classic Rock"

You: "ah MAIN, this man is racist and ish, can't a black man have a Classic Rock playlist?"

DJ: "fine okay, what's your name so I can check out what you brought?"

You: "johnnym"

DJ thinking: 'oh yeah, I heard of this dude, thought he was a white DJ from jersey tho'
Scrolls through carbage after carbage, comes to 'Classic Rock' - open - scroll ---
"What the fuck is all this? I'm not playing any of this crap"

You: make a big ass seen, yelling all kinds of jive lingo, talking about racism, law suits, Johnny cockring, windows 98, etc...

Manager comes on over, trying to make something out of the cash spent on system "just play the guys shit"

DJ: "fine" scroll - load 192k vinyl rip, cue Watchwww.youtube.com

Might as well have dropped a couple vile of Morning Breeze in the place.


Now the above is just an example, but honestly this might be the worst suggestion I have heard on this forum - ever.

No DJ wants patrons walking up with stupid ass playlists. If the club is trying to pull people in with that nonsense, it would be non-stop bullshit. No DJ wants to take the time to peruse some Johnny-off the streets iPod looking for shit to play. No club would spend the money on a system when just fielding patrons request should be enough.

Dumb Idea
(Regardless of who came up with it :-)

For that to work, the club would need an industry strength waterproof keyboard imo, and djs would still want to plug their laptops for running stuff like video, ableton, traktor etc. Assume that mixer would be quite expensive: cpu, memory, internal storage for ssd, internal graphics card, usb bus for the external storage, another usb bus for sound/laptop(s), additional firewire/thunderbolt? Possibly some fan(s) for heat reduction. Add the price of a mbp to the mixer, and then some more, as volumes are lower than laptop sales, and if rane make it... You know that thing aint gonna be cheap.....

I think thats the disconect people have when discussing the autimated system, it would be easily implimented as a push system...DONT give people the ability to request or control, push it on them the same way radio does. TELL them what they want to hear and what they will or will not dance to. How many times has someine aaked you for "something they can dance to" then requested some 60 bpm thug bullshit that they heard on the radio earlier, people ARE sheep, treat thrm as such

Not even sure if I would chance pluggin in my HD to an unknown machine either, who knows what kind of virus, or other weird hardware fails might occour. Sounds to risky IMO.

I'm not doing that... lol. Agreed.

One thing I had set out to do after the SL1 inside the TTM56, was to put a whole Mac Mini inside it. I understood it would have been less practical. Could have been done. But I decided not to chop up the mixer that much. I had resign to just put it in the same box behind the mixer. Over it would have been the mounted touchscreen i had. The actual problem with that design was simply the size of various plugs and the power converter. I had resigned to leave the power external. The other problem was finding a mini keyboard, there just weren't any at the time, even pc. Also considered same with a micro pc. Along with the work I would have had to have done, and it would never work as an actual product - is the system started to look like it was going to work too well - mounted touchscreen, mini computer - it worked so natural and so well, I didn't not want to become accustom to it because it might not travel well or be usable in any both.

The Microsoft Surface Pro is basically everything you describe here.

:P

Yeah, at this point there's a bunch of possibilitys with tablets and such.
Laptop days are numbered if you ask me.

3
2
1 cue the deceased mentioning how RANE will never hire me because I'm a known felon, and not qualified for the job (tho I have no felony record, nor was I ever trying to work there in the first place)

The didnt even respond to my application...neither did serato. I expecred at least a fuck off

DM1 is a step-based drum machine that works pretty well with tap & pitch slider options for beatmatching ease. It also has effects, a randomizer, and a bunch of other stuff I haven't used yet:

www.fingerlab.net

If you want more then FL (Fruity Loops) Studio HD also has a step sequencer along with multitracking DAW features (instruments, automation, etc.). It can be a little more difficult to navigate in a pinch though:

www.image-line.com

Negative. Those sites have been shut down and all the lawsuits are what scared people.

nm

As a matter of fact, just ask around to see if anyone is sharing music. On this forum they will say no but off the forum I'm positive most people do and I'm not talking about DJs.

Who said there was a DJ?

Duh.

BTW, don't quit your dayjob....

Oh, I forgot... :-)

Negative, I know cats that even in the same SMALL GROUP won't share watermarked files because of the same reasons PM mentioned below...

SURE cats share NON Watermarked files...ALL the time...

Others will say, "Yeah, that file is on Traxsource, just log in and get it"...

Not thinking about the video market just yet, just a simple mechanism for managing files but not via a laptop.

I do agree that the price would go up, with the video card and outputs, BUT how much does one pay for a laptop ANYWAY?

Corporations are at the head of that monster. They push it to the radio, radio pushes it to the consumer. The CONSUMER pushes it on the DJ.

Right now, there are too many options for the end user to get the music they want when they want.

Gone are the days of going to a club to hear "Unreleased" mainstream stuff.

Most DJ's now have to conform to "Cash a check". If they CAN dictate, then more power to them, but for now, the customer is always right, and if there's an argument, there's a DJ that will replace you to play EXACTLY what the customer wants.

If you like to believe that, go right ahead. nm

By the time we get to that era, you'll be carrying multiple USB keys which will house your ENTIRE music collection by the six pack and be blazing fast, if not using some type of dongle to access your music on a cloud.

Show of hands, how many of you on this thread have lost a gig to someone who would okay what you didn't? My guess is not many if anyone cause I'm sure all if you in here are professional enough to cater to your crowd to some degree. If you got canned, it was probably for money and nothing more.

nm

Okay should be play. nm

old people problems #STFUJ

Forgot what?

yeah "no DJ" is quite an important part of your scenario there, might want to include the key elements next bud

So now, who the fuck is going to pay a fee so an automated system MIGHT navigate their BS files and do what, on the spot analyze the file to see if it works in the mix? LMAO.

And why would anyone design a system to 'barrow' tracks from patrons instead of just access a central library and play requests if even needed?

Still dumb as all hell.

Now I'm convinced if this dude (even ever plays anyplace) he actually does cue up patrons iPods.

Don't quit you day job!
(Oh... never could :-)

this forum needs nested threads. then I can just hide all the useless bullshit and concentrate on interesting discussions. As is I need to wade through post after post of petty squabbling before I read an interesting topic.

This forum needs an enema.

LOL

I guess that explains why he has patrons dictating what he plays from their iPods.
(No BS)

Nm

No, I actually just go to Hot 97.com, find out what the top 10 are, download them, and go.

End of story.

With one sentence you just killed your own argument lol

nm

No, the point is that I DON'T necessarily LIKE Hot 97's (or today's hiphop), BUT I know in order for me to keep my JOB, I'd have to go and mindlessly download this stuff, not even give it a listen most times, and play it JUST because I KNOW they will eventually ask me for it....

If I TRULY had my way, I'd never play this mess...

This may be a difference in geography as this is definitely the case along pretty much the entire East Coast (D.C. and Virginia included) for club-goers, party-goers, and bar-hoppers alike.

People actually WANT to hear the same song multiple times a night. If it's not on the radio, they don't want to hear it. Doesn't matter how hot it is (or will be). If it's not being played by their local radio station, don't even waste your time.

Let me give you the perfect example: Rihanna - We Found Love. Song is annoying as hell. Hated it. But it sounded like it would be a club hit. So... I played it (Playlist are available for proof). Played it solid for 2 weeks to zero reaction. I shelved it for 4 months. Suddenly, I'm inundated with request for it because the radio stations have decided to play it now. Now this song just got hot and you want to hear it, but the same crowd didn't want to hear that shit 4 months prior? So much for the theory of "DJ's breaking a record." This isn't the 90's anymore, gentlemen. People don't need to rely on a DJ having an exclusive anymore. The internet has eliminated that, but it's irrelevant because the mentality of the audience is "If it's not on the radio, it must not be good."

Another example: Ludacris - Jinglin'. Played it at parties and a few clubs and introduced it as new. Played it along with Rihanna - Birthday Cake (probably the exception to the rule. Even with only 1/3rd of a song, it played from the get-go). Zero reaction. Radio plays it. Explodes... and dies as quickly.

If you're not up on what's hot on radio, you frankly will not keep a crowd here. So Johnny_M actually is not wrong for what he's doing.

But following the top 10 tracks on radio or Billboard Top 100 does not equate to taking a request for Jagged Edge - Where The Party At off someone's iPhone at 12:45AM.

^everyone knows that. That's not what he was wrong about.

Hint: Remember we are supposed to be talking about new technology.

The first part is already reality, done deal (duh once again). The second part won't ever happen because of the first part. In the long run, no one is ever going to choose the Cloud over hard storage. A net connection will always be a weaker link than storage space/cost. No one is going to opt for erasing a file from a drive because its in the Cloud.

Now if we are talking about legal/licensing restrictions on personal storage of intellectual property - that could be a different story. But for too many reasons I doubt they can ever pull it off. Once again, no matter how ubiquitous the net becomes it will never trump a hard space where the file is already sitting.

In the end where the file is stored is not even the issue, its purchasing the license to use it. Which could be a stipulation for utilizing a fully automated system - performance rights could be built into the cost.

But a DJ carrying around a dongle to access the cloud is just not going to happen when that dongle could be a storage device in the first place.

I could see having the cloud as a supplement, sort of like Spotify in this thread... serato.com/forum/discussion/785797

Actually I guess that's already going down, so does it qualify as "future"?

Which is ecactly what i said

And in this case it looks like its useful for "juke boxing". DJs even if using it to field requests want to keep the file on hand to use again - unless they think its a one time request.

A professional DJ will always want the file on hand in order to do all the things which should be done in preparation. Just letting a file stream like that is ANOTHER indicator or element showing the completely automated system is a viable possibility.

With the completely automated system there are two options, extremely centralized control. Or local control creating value out of the data generated by the learning system. If the latter is the case there will be another reason for local storage because that individual system may deal with its files a particular way (as a pro DJ should)

It would still not make a whole lot of sense to restream data continually instead of just storing it locally.

Au contraire: www.virtualdj.com

Not necessarily a dongle (unless you count the controller on some editions as a dongle similar to an SL box), but the same principle.

I couldnt disagree with this more, everyone i know thinks i am insane for buyin hardcopydvds and cds when amazon offers them in them streamed fromthe cloud, most nonprofessional users perfer the cloud as long as thiscontinues youll see momentium movethat way to thepoint where the only deviuces that are offered are tablet style with no harddrive only cloud access

My argument is - at the moment the Cloud is a bunch of hype. It works perfectly for shit like email. Why? because you NEED a net connection relatively immediately in order to fulfill the function. But for shit that 'normally' does not require a connection its some BS. What's being hyped is the ubiquity of access and trying to train people to give up local control. Eventually the weaker link will be understood - it may take a while.

Consumer hard drive manufacturers arnt going to just shut down because of the Cloud. They may be in a race to keep prices low and space high. But consider the fact that we all have huge libraries we each customized for our use which we could never even play all the files in our lifetime. The only thing faster net speed does, is increase the chunks of huge data we can store locally. Online will be for specifics (and communication) offline is where we will individually deal with our own large database of crap. How we individually deal with large sets of data will be intellectual property in and of itself, and a privacy concern as well.

Which drive are you most likely to share, the one with random bullshit you 'acquired' some place or the one (same data) you spent hours configuring for your use?

We can argue this one to death, but I'm pretty sure it's squarely in the 'wait and see' category.

The Cloud Bubble - ha

I suppose there could be a conspiracy to take all data out of people's hands - and only professionals will be stuck understanding (or just complaining but not too loud) about what's happening.

Like I said: The computer will DJ better than you.

BTW I was meaning in a complete sense, not individual situations - like hard drives will be a thing of the past, I'm saying both will be in effect

Youtube had replaced the radio for a lot of people I know.

Honestly think cloud streaming services and monthly fees like spotify are going to be the furture of at least consumer media consumption.

I respectfully disagree, most of the consumer grade consumers loooove the cloud, look how well netflix, hulu, and amazon streaming are doing, look at the popularity of tablets, hell sony even bought a cloud game streaming service to impliment in the new playstation. I told a girl i know recently i bought a box set dvd and she laughed because i bought a hard copy when i could have streamed it via amazon. The concept of on demand acces via multiple devices is mouth watering for your average consumer and the corp push for the future will DEF be tablets that access info via the cloud, its convienent to the consumer and adds power and additional revenue stream to the holder

www.investorguide.com

Cloud-based storage has recently become the industry standard, with software such as Google (GOOG) Drive, Microsoft (MSFT) Skydrive, Dropbox and iCloud growing in popularity with consumers who now realize the convenience and necessity of being able to easily access content across multiple platforms, such as smartphones, tablets and home computers. 

Those are all great, as long as the option for "ownership" isn't taken away.

Fact remains - there is no practical reason to download files you continually use instead of storing them on a local drive. Especially if you own them or have license to them. Or if you can't share them. Or if how you change them becomes intellectual property.

Consumers 'might' allow such a limitation, but professionals probably will not.

It does not matter how easy it is to connect. If you could find a free hi speed connection floating in the middle the ocean during a storm - it still will not trump already having the data on your local machine.

^^ this

Here's where you're actually right.

But put this in the context of DJ'ing.

How many "DJ's" out there are actually "Professionals", vs a DJ who would be willing to skim music from YouTube and the like?

So basically the same situation exists, unless "Non Professional" DJ's are somehow weeded electronically out of the system.... and again, that goes back to watermarking, etc..etc.

DJs (even using the term loosely) are too small a group of users to have an effect on the way computer hardware is built. It is built to be useful for the greatest number of people possible - so putting it in the DJ context really doesn't mean anything.

Even if the professional DJ is ultimately usurped by the consumer hack who is perfectly fine streaming a set from YouTube - the facts in my last post still remain.

And the above scenario will probably be mitigated by the complete automated system anyway. And in that case there is still absolutely no reason to download the same file over and over and over again.




Removing the ability of consumers to store data might be the ultimate dream goal of intellectual property owner (especially the giants) but the fact also remains we are all creators of intellectual property and have an interest in control over it - especially while it is being worked on. Implementing a permanent weak link like requiring a connection makes as much sense as building laptops without batteries.

Cloud takeover check 2022... on point or slow AF?

This year I've done several events where at least 90% of the music was streamed through Tidal via Serato. The client sent me a Spotify list and I converted it to Tidal. I didn't have to buy any of the music. I was thoroughly impressed. Of course I still have all of my music stored on my laptop but it's nice to have this feature now. 10 years ago I would have never believed this was possible.