Software help archive

A read-only archive of old serato.com help threads.

Smart sync not working.

Product
Serato DJ
Version
1.2
Hardware
Numark NS7
Computer
Mac
OS
Mac OS X 10.7.5 Lion
Platform
-
Panotaker 1:19 PM - 1 May, 2013
Just downloaded Serato DJ for the NS7. When I put both tracks on smart sync and I start the second track, the second track goes back to simple sync and it doesn't start on the down beat of the first track. I then have to hit the sync button again on the second deck, then the two tracks will sync up. I don't know if I am doing something wrong, or if I am not holding my mouth right. Please help.
Panotaker 2:56 PM - 2 May, 2013
Am I the only one that has this problem? Yeah, I know, nobody uses sync.
Panotaker 6:46 PM - 2 May, 2013
Just so you guys at Serato know. If I turn off the platter motors, smart sync works just fine and the second track starts on the track one downbeat, and the sync icon stays blue. If I turn the motors on, I can put it on smart sync and the icon turns blue, when you hit play, the blue sync icon turns orange, and the second song starts a split second after the downbeat so the tracks are not in sync. If I hit the sync button again, the tracks sync up and the icon turns blue. So in other words, it only works correctly if i turn off the motors. I'm running a 13" 2009 MBP running Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5. Am I the only one with this problem or are other NS7 user having the same problem with smart sync.
Panotaker 7:32 AM - 7 May, 2013
Still waiting for an answer on this. Thanks.
Matt P 11:48 PM - 7 May, 2013
Hi Panotaker,

I've tested this and can confirm the problem you are having with the NS7.

I can give some explanation as to why this is happening. Its relative to the motors on the NS7. The platters aren't running at exactly the same speed so therefore can't maintain a Smart Sync. Its a limitation of the hardware, but we will work with Numark to try and find a resolution to this problem.

Matt P
Panotaker 2:00 AM - 8 May, 2013
Thanks for answering my question, but if it is a hardware problem, how come it works perfect with Itch. With Serato DJ, I can have the left deck playing and the right deck cued up. I then put both decks on smart sync and the screen sync icon turns blue on the left deck and grey for the right deck. The second I start the right deck, the blue icon on the left deck turns from blue to orange, and the right deck icon turns blue. The right deck doesn't start on the down beat either, but about a half a beat later. I can then hit the left deck sync button and the decks sync up like they are supposed to and the stay in sync. So I don't think it is a motor issue because they stay in sync. The problem seems to be that the left deck goes from smart sync, to simple sync, the second I start the right deck. That is not supposed to happen. If I turn off the motor for the right deck, and leave the motor running on the left deck, smart sync works like it is supposed to. So with the motors running, the second I start the right deck, the left deck goes from smart sync, to simple sync. I think it is a software issue, but I'm no expert. Hope that helps you trouble shoot the problem.
Matt P 4:29 AM - 9 May, 2013
Hi Panotaker,

I've just fired up the NS7 to compare it to ITCH and turns out after comparing both programs i was unable to find the same problem. :/
The problem you have now described where the tracks syncs a beat later is present in both too.
Are you using the same songs to compare this with or different songs?

Matt p
Panotaker 1:40 PM - 9 May, 2013
Same songs or different songs, it doesn't matter. Smart sync works perfect in itch, it works as I described in Serato DJ. The only way smart sync works correctly in SDJ is if I turn off the motors. Are you using beatgridded songs? Try this with SDJ. Play a song on the left player, put the left player on smart sync until the screen icon turns blue, leave the song playing. Load up a song on the right player, cue it up on the first beat and press pause, hit the sync button and put the right player on smart sync, screen icon turns grey. Hit play on the right player and you will see that the left player screen icon instantly goes from blue to orange and goes back to simple sync, and the right player doesn't start on the down beat of the right player like it is supposed to. The right sync icon turns blue. Now try the same thing with the motors turned off, works perfect now. Now try the same thing with Itch, works perfect. At least that is what it does on my system.
Matt P 3:13 AM - 13 May, 2013
Panotaker,

I have doen some further testing with this and was able to find some more peculiar things with the bug.
It is present in ITCH 2.2.2. However it is worse in Serato DJ.
However if you turn the motor off, then sync the two tracks(i'm using two of the exact same tracks with beatgrids) then turn the motor back on, it stays in Sync. Either way, its a bummer and we are going to have to fix it.

Thanks for your extra info.

Matt P
Panotaker 3:50 AM - 13 May, 2013
Well, I am glad you finally found the bug I was talking about. I am surprised no one else has noticed it and complained about it. That is the first thing I noticed the first time I used SDJ. I put both tracks on smart sync, and they didn't sync up. I don't have that bug in Itch 2.2.2 on my NS7, it works perfect for me there. I guess it only happens on the NS7, because that is the only controller with motorized platters. That's probably the same reason it works with the motors off. It behaves just like all the other controllers with static platters. It is probably related to the same bug that keeps the platters from starting instantly like they do on Itch. I hope you fix it pretty quick, because the new NS72 is coming out soon, and that is probably going to have the same problem since that has motorized platters too. Thanks again. I'll let you know how SDJ works with the next update.
Matt P 4:30 AM - 13 May, 2013
Panotaker,

You can rest assured we'll be taking care of it. Thanks for your helpful info.
I'll close this up as a logged bug, but feel free to open it up if you have any more you feel you need to share.

Matt p
Panotaker 11:28 AM - 23 July, 2014
I'm still waiting for this bug to be fixed in the NS7, NS72 and V7's.
dizzyrocks2001 3:48 PM - 23 July, 2014
By the sounds of things the problem is due to SDJ not having instant platter start like ITCH does. What's happening is you're hitting play on time but there is a slight delay between hitting the play button and the song actually starting thus causing your mix to be off. Technically the two songs are synched, but they are slightly offset by a fraction of a second due to the song starting a fraction of a second after pressing play (platter start delay). This would explain why hitting the sync button a second time works because by hitting sync it's causing the track that's lagging behind to 'catch up'. That's why sync DOES work with the platter motors off because then the song DOES start as soon as you press the play button - no start up delay. Serato has acknowledged that platter instant start will be fixed in a future software update so hopefully that will solve your sync issues. I know a workaround with the NS7 II is to hold the shift button while pressing play, or turn the motors off, or to do it the old school way and release the platter on beat. Think of it this way... without instant start the platters are behaving the same way as an old school vinyl turntable would, and anyone who's played on turntables knows that you can't hit the play button and have the song start instantly and on beat - you have to compensate for the delay. That being said, the instant platter start using the NS7 with ITCH would cause the play button to start the track the same way a CDJ would - instantly. So for the time being, until the instant platter start gets implemented you'll have to treat the play button behavior like it was an old school turntable and not a CDJ. I hope this makes sense :)
LeJan 12:53 AM - 24 July, 2014
A work around would be to use your hot cue buttons to get an instant start then then press play.
Panotaker 1:01 AM - 24 July, 2014
Yes, I know all the work arounds, I came up with one of them. I don't have an NS7II and probably will never get one if it doesn't work right with SDJ. Since I own an original NS7, my work around is to just use Itch, which works perfectly.
Sand 8:19 AM - 17 August, 2014
Quote:
Well, I am glad you finally found the bug I was talking about. I am surprised no one else has noticed it and complained about it. That is the first thing I noticed the first time I used SDJ. I put both tracks on smart sync, and they didn't sync up. I don't have that bug in Itch 2.2.2 on my NS7, it works perfect for me there. I guess it only happens on the NS7, because that is the only controller with motorized platters. That's probably the same reason it works with the motors off. It behaves just like all the other controllers with static platters. It is probably related to the same bug that keeps the platters from starting instantly like they do on Itch. I hope you fix it pretty quick, because the new NS72 is coming out soon, and that is probably going to have the same problem since that has motorized platters too. Thanks again. I'll let you know how SDJ works with the next update.


This quote was dated July 2013 and still no fix for the instant start! And please stop saying it's coming in a future update, why don't you grow a set and tell us when.
Panotaker 2:35 PM - 17 August, 2014
That's my post, but that is not the first time I reported those bugs. That is just the first time that they acknowledged the bugs. I actually found it the first day that Serato DJ was released for the NS7, which is a long time ago. I talked about it on a different thread.

I'm not even going to worry about it any more. I have an NS7 that works perfect with Itch. The NS72 has been out a while now, and with all the new features coming out, they are probably due for an NS73 soon, so it makes no sense to get the NS72 now, even if they fix it tomorrow.
bradbear 5:58 PM - 20 August, 2014
Not sure if I'm in the right place, but can anyone help with my problem, I purchased the numark mix track pro 2 controller with dj serato intro, alls working well, I just need to know how to get the bpm's for my tracks so I can sync, I'm no professional dj I just play with my controller and tracks as just something to do. Thanks brad
dizzyrocks2001 7:05 PM - 20 August, 2014
Quote:
Not sure if I'm in the right place, but can anyone help with my problem, I purchased the numark mix track pro 2 controller with dj serato intro, alls working well, I just need to know how to get the bpm's for my tracks so I can sync, I'm no professional dj I just play with my controller and tracks as just something to do. Thanks brad


You need to analyze your files within Serato. I would suggest reading the user's manual because it explains in detail how to go about doing this.

For future reference it's better to start a new thread if you need help :)
Panotaker 1:35 AM - 8 October, 2014
Well I just downloaded The new Serato DJ 1.7.1 and guess what, Instant start and sync still don't work on the NS7. I'm sure it was an oversight on Serato's part. After all, you where too busy fixing the bugs on the Pioneer SZ to worry about the two bugs we have been complaining about for almost two years now. On the bright side, they added support for the new Akai mixer that nobody has yet. I can't wait for Serato DJ 6.0 so the NS7 bugs will finally be fixed. Thanks Serato, you guys are doing a great job!
Panotaker 2:59 AM - 21 October, 2014
I can't believe it! I just installed the new 1.7.2 Beta and you guys actually fixed the instant start bug, and the sync bug on the NS7. Thank you very much. I take back all the nasty stuff I wrote in my previous post. I'm sure it is probably fixed on the NS7II too, but I don't have one to check. I'll check my two V7's and let you know if it works on those too. I'll play with it for a while and let you know how it goes, but so far it works just like Itch does. Only thing I found so far is that the Flanger effect sucks in SDJ, it's a whole lot better in Itch, but I guess you probably already know that. It could be because I'm using a VFX-1, but that shouldn't make any difference. Thanks again, you did a great job.
Sand 6:53 PM - 21 October, 2014
Quote:
I can't believe it! I just installed the new 1.7.2 Beta and you guys actually fixed the instant start bug, and the sync bug on the NS7. Thank you very much. I take back all the nasty stuff I wrote in my previous post. I'm sure it is probably fixed on the NS7II too, but I don't have one to check. I'll check my two V7's and let you know if it works on those too. I'll play with it for a while and let you know how it goes, but so far it works just like Itch does. Only thing I found so far is that the Flanger effect sucks in SDJ, it's a whole lot better in Itch, but I guess you probably already know that. It could be because I'm using a VFX-1, but that shouldn't make any difference. Thanks again, you did a great job.


Don't hold your breath, instant start works about 90% of the time so far! sometimes the motors spin up slowly so you have to cycle the motor speed rotary knobs to get it working again! This is on the NS7 2 though.
Panotaker 11:51 PM - 23 October, 2014
I spoke too soon. It works for 4 mixes and then instant start and sync quit working. I posted about it in the beta forum in the instant start thread at the top.
Eric2 11:27 AM - 17 January, 2015
It's really helpful that use your hot cue buttons to get an instant start then then press play.
Eric2 12:18 AM - 20 January, 2015
You guys are really very kind.







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www.ourcase.co.uk
Heltino 5:54 PM - 20 January, 2015
1.7.2 instant start on NS7II works perfect for me. (1.7.3 not yet tested)

Important is that you move the start time knob one time after the software is started. just move it a little up and then to the zero position.
you´ll see the message "instant start enabled" in the bottom bar.

doing so: no single issue so far.
DJ SOUTH 7:32 PM - 28 July, 2015
shouldn't be using SYNC at all .... must not knw how to mix by ear huh? lol
Panotaker 8:33 PM - 10 August, 2015
You got me DJ South. I have been using the SYNC button since I started DJing, which was 1976. How long have you been DJing again?
Sand 9:19 PM - 10 August, 2015
Quote:
You got me DJ South. I have been using the SYNC button since I started DJing, which was 1976. How long have you been DJing again?


It's funny because DJ South thinks sync should never be used, but I bet he looks at the BPM readings on the screen display.
ronnie dj 4:03 PM - 15 February, 2016
Sorry guys....I HAVE THE NS7 III and have the same issue in seratodj 1.8.1 The same songs are running out of sync also. This is a bummer and since thiswas reported in 2013 already....wow!!! and still no resolution. eish!!!!
dizzyrocks2001 5:07 PM - 15 February, 2016
I have the NS7ii and I'm having the same problem. I didn't have this problem for awhile with other versions (around 1.7.8 or something). I'll test older versions today and see what the last version was that didn't have this problem.
Phsyraxion 11:18 PM - 15 February, 2016
I have an NS7 III and like to sometimes muck around with Sync and have found it very hit and miss as to if it works (EG doesn't loose sync every 4 seconds). I am also running the latest version of serato as of yesterday.

If you deactivate the platter motors, sync is rock solid so its related to the physical motion of the platters. Personally I believe it's the fact that you have audio and MIDI in the same device and occasionally you will get a timing issue. That and the fact the motors and physical platters will vary their speed ever so slightly.

Still, there should be a feature/check box or something that can compensate for nuances.

I have found if it does start to really play up if you switch off the NS7 while Serato is running and switch it back on again it appears fine and I have locked songe for 3 minutes solid without any loss of sync. Of course this is no good in a Live situation.
dizzyrocks2001 1:55 AM - 16 February, 2016
So I tried older versions of Serato DJ (as far back as 1.7.5) and the sync problem was still there. I could have sworn there was a time when tracks stayed in sync better. By the way, I don't actually use the Sync button, but when I do an instant double the left deck is always slightly faster. And if I'm mixing two perfectly beat gridded tracks and I've matched the tempo on both tracks they fall out of sync quickly and I'm constantly having to have my fingers on the pitch bend buttons... grrrrrrrr.
dizzyrocks2001 1:57 AM - 16 February, 2016
Oh, and on a side note, make sure you back up your Serato folder before opening older versions of SDJ. After opening older versions I lost all my camelot key info in the tags and had to restore from a backup to get them all back.
dizzyrocks2001 2:14 AM - 16 February, 2016
Attached is a screen recording showing how the tracks fall out of sync when I hit instant double. At the 15 second mark I hit instant double again and everything is fine. Hitting instant double a second time seems to be a workaround, except what about when you want to mix two different tracks?
2:15 AM, 16 Feb 2016
dizzyrocks2001 attached a file: Screen Recording.mov
Download· Permalink
Panotaker 3:45 PM - 23 February, 2016
I gave up a long time ago waiting for Serato to fix this sync problem, and I was the original guy that brought it to their attention 3 years ago. Lucky for me, I have an original NS7, and those work perfectly with Itch. There are no sync problems with Itch and the original NS7. So if you use sync, and you only need 2 channels, I suggest you sell your NS7II or III and just buy a used NS7, those work perfect. If you need 4 channels, I suggest getting a controller with non motorized platters like the Pioneer SX2, those work fine with Serato DJ and sync.
dizzyrocks2001 7:59 PM - 23 February, 2016
Quote:
I gave up a long time ago waiting for Serato to fix this sync problem, and I was the original guy that brought it to their attention 3 years ago. Lucky for me, I have an original NS7, and those work perfectly with Itch. There are no sync problems with Itch and the original NS7. So if you use sync, and you only need 2 channels, I suggest you sell your NS7II or III and just buy a used NS7, those work perfect. If you need 4 channels, I suggest getting a controller with non motorized platters like the Pioneer SX2, those work fine with Serato DJ and sync.


I don't even use the sync button and the tracks will drift when the tempos are matched.
dizzyrocks2001 5:59 PM - 27 February, 2016
So last night things were really wonky. When I instant doubled a track to deck 1 the waveforms fell out of sync faster than I had ever experienced before (see video.) You'll see in the video that both instant doubled tracks are at the same BPM but it only took about 3 seconds for them to completely fall out of line. But, after I turned my NS7ii off and on again the sync problem disappeared. So is this a Numark issue, or is it both a Numark AND Serato DJ issue. At least now I know to do a test before I do my set and if the tracks fall out of sync like they did last night then I know I can power cycle my NS7ii as a workaround.
6:00 PM, 27 Feb 2016
dizzyrocks2001 attached a file: Out of sync waveforms.MOV
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dizzyrocks2001 6:01 PM - 27 February, 2016
Btw, I should mention that I wasn't using the SYNC button, I just simply instant doubled a track from deck 2 to deck 1.
djdrewsie 7:12 AM - 3 March, 2016
I just experienced this in version 1.8.1. The problem is based on how you connect your unit to your Mac or PC.

I believe the instructions tell you to power on the unit first and then connect the usb to your computer. In my experience this can cause occasional power surges on your USB port and it results in the mixer not being powered properly when running serato. I find that if everything is connected and then you turn on the ns7 with the usb already plugged into your computer, it works perfectly.

You might want to check your power settings and see that you are not running any power saver settings on your computer. If you have a PC be sure to optimize your USB ports in your device manager. I believe there is an article on serato that shows you how to optimize your pc for performance.

For me when it had happened I found the fix was to reset the current by unplugging everything, replug everything and then power the unit on.

From my experience the problems stem from how an outlet is powering the mixer itself. If you have a large setup with computers, hard drives and monitors (especially at a venue that's already drawing a great deal of power) it's no surprise to see differences in results and power distribution in your live experience.
dizzyrocks2001 7:08 PM - 3 March, 2016
Quote:
I just experienced this in version 1.8.1. The problem is based on how you connect your unit to your Mac or PC.

I believe the instructions tell you to power on the unit first and then connect the usb to your computer. In my experience this can cause occasional power surges on your USB port and it results in the mixer not being powered properly when running serato. I find that if everything is connected and then you turn on the ns7 with the usb already plugged into your computer, it works perfectly.

You might want to check your power settings and see that you are not running any power saver settings on your computer. If you have a PC be sure to optimize your USB ports in your device manager. I believe there is an article on serato that shows you how to optimize your pc for performance.

For me when it had happened I found the fix was to reset the current by unplugging everything, replug everything and then power the unit on.

From my experience the problems stem from how an outlet is powering the mixer itself. If you have a large setup with computers, hard drives and monitors (especially at a venue that's already drawing a great deal of power) it's no surprise to see differences in results and power distribution in your live experience.


My MacBook is fully optimized for DJing including my power settings. I'll try what you suggested in regards to making sure everything is connected before powering on the NS7ii, although you mentioned that the mixer may not be powered properly due to a power surge on the USB port but the NS7ii has it's own power supply, so the USB port isn't powering the unit like it would if it was a controller without its own power supply.
dizzyrocks2001 4:53 PM - 4 March, 2016
djdrewsie, I tried what you suggested (connecting everything before powering on the NS7ii) and it didn't fix the problem. I think I have found a fix though - if I instant double a track 3 or 4 times right in a row it seems to do the trick. After the second instant double the wave forms drift out of sync a little less, and even less after the 3rd press.
djdrewsie 6:09 AM - 7 March, 2016
Hmm, interesting. I'm no expert or anything, but I'm always interested to know why bugs occur for my own knowledge. Out of curiosity, are you plugging the unit into the laptop or a hub? Also, if you're using a Macbook, something prior to 2010 might not have the horsepower to run such a large mixer as the ns7. A 2009 Mac is running Core 2 Duo and Serato DJ seems to be phasing that support out. While the ns7 compatibility may be within the specs of your machine, it may be a task to run it alongside Serato DJ. (Serato DJ is quite the resource hog)
dizzyrocks2001 9:37 AM - 7 March, 2016
Quote:
Hmm, interesting. I'm no expert or anything, but I'm always interested to know why bugs occur for my own knowledge. Out of curiosity, are you plugging the unit into the laptop or a hub? Also, if you're using a Macbook, something prior to 2010 might not have the horsepower to run such a large mixer as the ns7. A 2009 Mac is running Core 2 Duo and Serato DJ seems to be phasing that support out. While the ns7 compatibility may be within the specs of your machine, it may be a task to run it alongside Serato DJ. (Serato DJ is quite the resource hog)


I plug the unit directly into the MacBook which is a 2012 i7 with 8g of RAM and an SSD which is more than a capable machine. Everything runs smooth and the CPU never gets higher than 20%. I don't think the tracks falling out of phase have anything to do with USB power or my MacBook not being powerful enough (because it is powerful enough) - it's just a bug with either the NS7ii or Serato DJ, or both.
djdrewsie 8:58 PM - 7 March, 2016
Have you tried recalibrating your ns7 in the utilities mode? Perhaps the calibration of your start time knob is off. That's probably the next step I would take in my trial and error. Also, plugging into a different usb port?

Another thing I was thinking about was resetting your smart sync settings by unchecking and rechecking all the boxes. There are many times where I'll plug in something that's not an ns7 (say like an akai amx) and the smart settings automatically become disabled. They only become re enabled if you manually do it.

Hardware wise, I put blank cds under my slipmats to have them be a little looser. I also added a dab of electronic lubricant under the cd.

All of these things could help, and for your sake, I hope they do!
dizzyrocks2001 12:51 AM - 8 March, 2016
Quote:
Have you tried recalibrating your ns7 in the utilities mode? Perhaps the calibration of your start time knob is off. That's probably the next step I would take in my trial and error. Also, plugging into a different usb port?

Another thing I was thinking about was resetting your smart sync settings by unchecking and rechecking all the boxes. There are many times where I'll plug in something that's not an ns7 (say like an akai amx) and the smart settings automatically become disabled. They only become re enabled if you manually do it.

Hardware wise, I put blank cds under my slipmats to have them be a little looser. I also added a dab of electronic lubricant under the CD.

All of these things could help, and for your sake, I hope they do!


I have done all of these things except putting a CD under the slipmat, which I might try just to see if it helps but I like the current feel of the platters and don't want them any looser.