It would be a nice feature... but, why not just buy mixed in key itself? its only $60

The only thing i would like, is the key column in crates (like tracktor). just so i dont have to have the key in the comments (or in front of the name, etc.)

Rumour has it traktor 4 will be bundled with MIK

then go drop $300 on Traktor to get the $60 key program.

I just thought it be nice if it had a column in serato that said the keys of each song. No need to use 2 programs if one can do it.

I too think something like mixed in key would be great for serato. Especially if it was part of when you build overviews. Mixed in key is definately a powerful tool. I use it with everything from hip hop to trance and on a weekly basis. I find that even when you're cutting in the next song it sounds a lot better when they are both in tune. Mixing harmonically while not always necessary definately helps.

as a workaround are you using the comments or other unused column for this information?

I think this would be a cool addition, or at least show the key up by the bpm so we know what key we are in.

I try not to have too many programs on my laptop for stability and space. So adding a 'mix in key' feature to ssl in the overviews is a great idea.

Lawrence, are you serious? mixed in key takes too much space and creates stability issues to your computer? Too many bells & whistles inside SSL, would make SSL unstable, me thinks... (like incorporating mixed in key for overviews..)

But yes, Im all for a key column

This would be a very nice luxury, but using MIK externally is ok too. Write key & bpm to comment field and you can get a key-then-bpm sort... very nice.

I think in general, it would be good to sort on any mp3 field.

Also, for my own part, I use Rapid Evolution for key detection anyway. It writes key information to the "grouping" field. The Author of the program claims it to determine keys more accurate than both Mixed in Key and Mixmeister. Comparison link -> www.mixshare.com

If Serato were to include a key detection algorithm, it could actually backfire at them. As I understand these algorithms are really hard to get right, and the error percentage somewhere about 15-30% at least. So when buying a professional product like SSL customers would expect better result, and end up complaining about the product...

what...serato users complain?

that's a joke

I use the Grouping field for smart playlists in iTunes. Really can you (Serato) please just add a 'key' column?

I think that having a tool such as MixedInKey built into Serato would be awesome, especially if it was incorporated when building overviews. I have no doubt that if one was included in Serato then it would be up to the highest standard.

Big ups NZ... DJ Skool reprezent.


Peace

I disagree. I don't know very much about programming but it seems to me that building overviews is designed to take pressure off of your CPU so during performance you don't have files taking forever to load. If Mixed in Key or a something like that was part of when you build overviews before a performance, how would that affect its stability during. I personally don't mind using mixed in key then transferring the files over but sometimes those files aren't read in the comments section until you manually add them from mixed in key into Itunes. For some reason, when you do this, it will then read the key in your comments section in Serato everytime. This is very time consuming.

just use mik ...you dont need to transfer files over....

just scan you files in mik as they are, writing the key data before comment on the id3 tag.

then when you use them in serato the key will be ther.....might hav to rescan id3 in scrathlive tho...

but yes adding a key detection to ssl when building overviews would be GREAT.

The reason I'd prefer to have the key detection process separated from overviews is I have "autofill overviews" on in the pref's. I guess they could just make a switch just like the "set auto bpm" ie. "set auto key" so I see your point.

When it comes to id3 tags and SSL not reading it, here's my workflow when adding new tracks.

1. Digitize/Rip/Download the track(s).
2. Put the track files exactly where I want them in my HD library hierachy.
3. Add tracks to iTunes.
4. Make sure tags are ok in iTunes, if not run Jaikoz or id3 tagit to sort them out & add coverart.
5. Convert all tags to id3 v2.3 if in doubt. I do this by right click the tracks (ctrl click on th mac) and and choose "convert id3 tags".
6. Run key detection in Rapid Evolution 2 and/or Mixed in Key (I'm converting to Rapid Evolution, as it now has become a lot faster after multi-core support was added in version 2.11.0)
7. Reread tags in iTunes by selecting them and pressing <ctrl> <i> / (<cmd> <i> on mac..)
8. Fire up SSL and build overviews form my new tracks.

9. Every once a while run "rescan id3 tags" in ssl and then overview, to catch any files I missed.

For me this is pretty much bulletpoof, I've had issues with Rapid Evolution & Mixed in Key messing up tags in past, but after adding convert tags to id3 v2.3 in iTunes, Ive experienced no problems.

Yes, it does take some work, but saves me from problems further down the road.

Warpnote thanks for the advice. I'll give it a try when I get my macbook this week.

yah add a key detection prgram in SSL +1

+1 to mixed in key
+1 to sampler
+1 to like 50 other feature suggestions


i just wonder are any of these ever going to get put in SSL; it seemed as though a while ago they added so many features but now it has seemed to slow down to me... Not saying it definitely did just felt that way lol.

+1 for key column.
I don't know which tag MIK uses, but I use RE2 which adds a KEY tag :)

OT: I can't understand how a java app like RE2 can compute the key of a track faster than Serato can build an overview :-|

Best of luck Theroy.

You can set RE2 to write the keys to the GROUPING tag, works well for me. (MIK keys stays in comment tag)

Dammit! I didn't know! Thanks for the tip!!!!

the key column would be nice to have

+1 treeo

I have a question Do you use BPM when using Mixed in key or just go by the Key? I have tried using only the key and find it that my mixes are not as harmonic as they say they would be but if I use the same key and the same bpm it works so I dont know what am doing wrong??

Do you have have the "keylock" button on when playing? If not, when you adjust he BPM, the key changes with speed.

So set the "keylock" on both decks and try to mix again.

If your keylock is on, then I really don't know what you could be doing wrong.

Now that we have a key colume. the next step would be for serato programmers to figure a way to auto detect the key,bpm and autogain all at once. that would be really nice.
thankx,
bf

thank u bullfrog u totally read my mind as 2 what i was goin to post





+1 to key detection on overviews

please key finder for harmonic mixing please please

+1

Christ...why dont we then have it so that serato will automatically beatmatch the track for you and then you can get a little motorised crossfader. Even incorporate a spectral analyser to cut out frequencies perfectly, no more having to twist those knobs!

This mixed in key program is so stupid, if you cant tell whether there is a key clash just by listening then you shouldnt be anywhere near a set of decks.


Serato, please dont put MIK into Scratchlive, make people learn their records and practice their art. otherwise it'll just make Serato users even less respected by our peers.

Yes! Thank you Minklet!!

People, how can you call yourself an honest-to-god DJ when the computer does ALL the work for you? I use Serato for it's MP3 convenience, and I think it's a great program, but I've been "classically trained" on vinyl back in the late 90's when I first touched a pair of Technics, and I can't respect your "skill" when you rely on EVERY nook and cranny of a graphical interface. Take the laptop away: can you still mix? A true DJ could mix blind...literally!

well thats what im doing when i practice i put the laptop off to the side zoom out the wave forms all the way and well at first its not pretty but im working on it....

in all seriousness mixed in key (or key detection on analyze files~ formally known as build overviews) would be a great addition to Serato.

+1 to feature suggestion.

hell no.... please

-1
Rapid evolution does a great job of keying songs and its free. I'd rather see the serato team making other DJ specific enhancements that we can't get anywhere else.

Mixmaster - ur -1. N please respect my opinion u may disagree but please hear me out. Say I have a song in my library n I run it through many ( idk about all) key detection programs I am very likely to LOSE ALL my cue points n when u have as many tracks as I do with as neatly prepared properly timed cue points as I do that would suck donkey cock to re do them all.
Now also if it were an option during the build overviews now called analyze files part of serato I would simply select all my tracks n re build the overviews for all of em n get my mixed in key results to boot.
It would rock!
So please serato include this in ur newest 2.0 version
Also please include
A sampler with 6 audio n VISUAL samples ie let me make short video clips for my audio samples

Point taken chris, it hasn't happened to me though.

For safetys sake, once an mp3 gets into serato thats it, I dont mess with it after that. I tag, key and genre group all my songs first before I import into serato.

In your situation you could just get the keys of your tracks by scanning them with rapid evolution but then typing them in manually in serato. Very time consuming I know, but no chance of wrecking your tags.

But I will agree, if serato could do it, awesome.

So I turned ur -1 to a plus 1. Damn I'm good. Lol jk but ya I don't see y it would ever affect the stability of the software nor do I see any chance of it really screwing with cue points etc. So plz serato mods include pretty please lmao

From the point of view of the feature itself +1
From the point of view that serato would be taking resources away from improving the overall DJing features and focusing on analysing MP3 files -1

I also STRONGLY agree with putting a key analyze in the "build overviews" function !

What about adding a key changer for the decks? But still keeping the lock on as well. id like to be able to step up a few semitones or down to make a great mix or accapella ride but i havent seem this simple feature added yet.

:)

btw, i bought MIK and scanned all my files and rescanned the tags and they showed up in the "key" row :)

This mixed in key program is so stupid, if you cant tell whether there is a key clash just by listening then you shouldnt be anywhere near a set of decks.

Well, with all that said, I can surely say that knowing everything about your music is
essential. I started back in the day, and I mean way back (1986). I was trained by some of the best Producers & DJs of Bay Area and Seattle, they all stressed knowing what key your in. Even "Razormaid" records (a remix service in the Bay Area) used to print what Key every song was in on center label. Disco DJs of the 70s would break a pitch pipe (among other types of pipes) and mark down the Key as well as the BPM (records of that day was much more full range with a lot more "mid range" instruments along with the bass line and cymbals, if you clashed Keys there was no way to hide it).
Currently I use "Mixed in Key" and I have that program overwrite comments. I then create a "crate" with 12 "sub crates" (one "sub crate" for every key in that genre) within Serato.
If you don't need key assistance you probably in a genre of music where it's predominately bass, hi hat with vocals (hip hop, breaks), if you're playing house, trance or anything where the full spectrum of sound is being pushed, you need to know where you're at in the key signature, plane and simple!
DJTvon

On a side note.
If you need auto beat match...... you're not a DJ. I hate to break it to you, but you're not! Don't feel bad, we call you folks Music Programmers. The art of picking the right song for the right moment does have an artistic quality to it. A DJ has a different skill, that is our mix can get as aggressive or as soft as the crowd wants it at an emotional "human" moment, a computer can't feel that!

Just My 2cent

I think we should keep Mix in Key in the file analyze mode only, using the Camelot System color code to identified only House, Trance, and anything above 128 bpm.

Now when you load a trax you know what key your in. Color Identified

I stated once before that it would be nice to have the original file untouched, have the option for the program to create a copy for the work on. I also think the SSL should have a visual wav. Off and ON option on SSL keeping it on the full trax scope.

This will help even run SSL in a more efficient way.

I my self-use my ears for mixing, I do not look at the PC or Mac for mixing.

Example: Rick James and James Brown cutting it up.
Note that you don’t need Mix and key for this mix.

I know that some headliners, Hip Hop Dj’s don’t use this system at all they are strictly Hip Hop and R&B. flow under 128 bpm.

And very happy.

Bump:}

This is all well and good but, currently when you're playing, if you have categorised or keyed your tracks in any way, you don't have easy access to the key of the current track on either deck.

On both virtual decks you have the Track, Artist, Sleeve and BPM.
If there was a configurable field display, which you could set as any ID3 text tag, then you can have this showing your key, or grouping, or the year, or whatever you use to give you ideas for your next track.

Then you can continue to use whatever software or pitch pipe you currently use without increasing the price of SSL for the rest of us.

BTW this has descended into a bit of a slang fest eh. I'm new on the forum but I see it suffers from the same old forum sh!t.
"You're not a real DJ, but I am because..." doesn't help anyone kids. ;)

Keep cool till after school.

Hey Guy’s let’s welcome RUSTY to SL



Rusty,
BLA………………………………………………Boo………â
€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..Bla…………………………………
……………………………………………………………â
€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€
¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦
……………………………………………………………â
€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€
¦BA.





ESAD

jooj

Rusty, welcome to SL




Bla Booooo Bla Ba

I don't think that was nice
it makes you look real bad

Rusty Be Nice

or ESAD !

The quote feature is messing with me....

"Mixed in Key" and the "Camelot System" are both nothing more than crutches for "DJ's" that are too lazy and/or tone-deaf to learn some basics about music.

I agree with the previous comment that anyone without that very basic level of music knowledge doesn't belong in a DJ booth.

Sorry for the harsh, but this shit just offends me. It's of course part of a larger problem, but still...

re: "Doesn't belong in a DJ booth"

Yawn...

I think the "larger problem" is something different.

You know we could all go on about DJs who mix in key, DJs who don't scratch, DJs who aren't full-time DJs, DJs who play hard house, DJs who don't use vinyl, DJs who prepare their setlists in advance, DJs who take requests, DJs who use laptops, DJs who ask other DJs to play at their gigs if they can bring 50 people, DJs who have a copy of "How to DJ properly" by Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton, DJ's who weren't DJs before 1990, DJs who think they are musicians when they are actually only playing other people's records, DJs who played that track before it went top 10 then stopped playing it, DJs who don't take requests, DJs who live next door and play techno at 3am when you have work the next day, DJs who ride the FX, DJs who play well past their set time because they think they deserve it, DJs who spill their pint in the booth, DJs who play with CDs, DJs who play that track you were going to play, DJs who play too loud for the room, DJs with one word names like Cher, DJs who don't read the crowd, DJs who mess with the cabling and leave it that way, DJs who have "f*ck off I'm mixing" t-shirts, and DJs who get all fancy on your mixer that you brought especially because the house mixer has no knobs the headphone jack is all wobbly and end up somehow firing two of your fader knobs off into nowhere...

... but that's not positive. You can reduce everything you do or say down to a choice, between fear and love. Choose the love people. Quit spraying your own dirty standards all over forums. And I mean that with love. :D

I thought my idea was a simple elegant solution to the problem that would please everyone. Could I get some comments on that? Perhaps I should have started a new feature thread.

Thank you for the reminder, Rysty!
In the end it's about the love of music, and hopefully to communicate that to the listeners...

ZM

+1 on mixed in key type of key detection built into the software on build overviews (analyze files) function

+5 for mixed in key or rapid evolution 2 which is free and supposedly better then xone mixed in key.

+10 on tht note

That column does already exist, but you'll need to run mp3s through MIK for it to autofill upon file scan.

the new serato scratch live 2.0 does detect key, but i still have not figured out how to get those keys in to iTunes.

quik vic it does?

lets keep it our little secret so i dont get banned shall we :)

lol good times

Rysty, I owe you a beer for that response. I know that SSL 2.0 pulls key information, but I'd like to respond nonetheless.

I'm relatively new to SSL, and have come here after a year of owning Torq and six months of Deckadance. One of the things that irks me about the Serato forums in general as I've been a part of them (and this applied to the Torq forums and to an extent Deckadance as well) is that it seems that lots of people here consider DJing to be a pissing contest. If you're a competitive DJ, that's great, and I truly, genuinely wish you all the best in the competitions you engage in. Personally, I'm a mobile jock. I do mainly sweet sixteens, backyard parties, and the like. I can hear some obvious key clashes, but not all of them. I can beat match pretty well, but sometimes I DO, in fact, need to look at the waveforms. If you believe that I "shouldn't be anywhere near a set of decks", then you're entitled to that opinion and I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't be booking me anyway.
Wanna know something though? with one exception, EVERY client I've booked in the past eight years has made nothing but positive comments about my work - work that's normally done in Mixmeister, where yes, the app does automatically align the beats for me. One day I'll be able to do seamless 32 measure transitions from 120bpm to 135 on turntables, but not today. If you feel a sense of superiority over me because I require software assistance, then I grant you all of that feeling you desire. I can give you names and numbers of over a hundred clients over the past eight years who will tell you that they LOVED my work and would hire me again in half a heartbeat. That means more to me than being able to brag about my ability to sift through a database of songs and find one that will work with both beatmixing and harmonic mixing in 90 seconds or less, then mix them together on my turntables without looking at the waveforms.
Let's step outside DJing for a minute. I sincerely doubt you'll find accountants arguing because one still uses pencil and paper and the other uses Excel. Would you care if you were hiring one of them? I doubt you'll find attorneys insulting each other 'cuz one still gets their case journals in dead tree books and the other is able to search through a downloadable database. Would you care if you were hiring one of them? Few graphic designers are getting extra business because they use Pantone swatches and Xacto knives instead of InDesign and Photoshop. Would you care if you were hiring one of them? What is the advantage then to having SSL NOT being able to extrapolate the key of a song? Sure a DJ should be working toward the goal of not requiring assistance, but is a client really going to care one way or the other?

I'm sure there are lots of jocks here who can spin circles around me. I applaud you all and aspire to advance to your level. But saying that you have to be able to beatmatch, harmonic mix, read a crowd, and spin real vinyl before you START DJing would be like saying that you have to be of the caliber of a NASCAR driver to drive to work in the morning.

Joey

+1 For this feature request.

-1 to the haters. If you know your good, stop pissing up toilet walls in internet forums, because your impressing noone, if you don't like the feature don't use it.

I for one would welcome it with open arms.

At this point , i scan my tracks in MIK and then drag them into SSL. Its not hard to do and when your playing some dope ass house trax and u have them all in one folder, its nice to mix up the key range and mash songs on the fly with same keys. It makes the mix sound so good.... Back in the old days when i'd stumble on records that used to mix well together in key i'd take note and do those mixes again bc they sounded so good. now i can just look at a list and pick them out..... I am old school, started back in the days when records were it. But i embrace the technology when it comes out every step of the way. I love the fact i can still use wax to play my sets but now i have 200+ other features i can use to make my mix better. just my $0.32
CC - happy mixing!

Though this would be a nice feature i think if i remember correctly mixed in key requires some sort of internet connection to analyze the songs and compares it to an already well established library. This would put the serato team on the back foot to implement and i think there is other suggestions and features more tuned for the guys at serato.

Mixed in key is only $60.00 small price to pay for all you harmonic djs (myself) and if Pete Tong and Paul Van Dyke recommend it then these guys at mixed in key know what they are doing or maybe we should get on to Chad at mixed in key to create an emulation program for djs lol.

$60 and all these plus ones will be satisfied just my 2 cents.

Using a piece of software like mixed in key isn't a crutch. It simply eliminates much of the guesswork involved in making a mix. When you have a collection of thousands of songs spanning different tempos, genres, etc. why not use technology to open some new possibilities. Many of my all time favorite songs are in 8A for some reason, songs that span decades, literally. Now I know harmonically they go well together. If people want to hate on MIK let them! They're loss!

I'd like to see key detection too but...

- MIK costs $60. I'd say 60 bucks too much if you wamt to integrate into "free" software.
- If it would be RE instead of MIK people will complain about the differences between SL and the "industry standard" MIK.

A-minor (and c-major - 8B) are popular probably because there's no sharps or flats in the scale so it's easy to play (at least on piano that is).

That reminds me... not to get too far OT here, but it's always fun to mess with people who want to play "heart and soul" with you on the piano; I switch keys midstream and play it in like d or e...

Rapid Evo. is the same thing as the first versions of mixed in key... i've been honkin for this feature for eons, as i came up with a harmonic color coding system to take even more guess work outta the equation...

if your a working dj and this software can help you, it worth the $60
i dont always mix in key but when you in a house set and you want layer your tracks , you can def find stuff to match much easier. I wish some of these douche bags making horrible off key mashups would buy it. nothing worse than hearing fingernails on the chalk board in a club. or even worse are the dj's who play these and dont even know it sucks. Being a musician, its imperative that i play stuff that sounds good sonicaly !

re3 beta in full swing - warning, it CAN eat your cue points/overviews and potentially corrupt your mp3s, if you do the wrong settings. RE2 doesnt seem to have such issues.

I think the whole convert to id2.3 in itunes helps a lot before hand tho..

Really, the key to these is doing it BEFORE you use serato. and AFTER you've made the tags uniform 2.3..

I just bought MIK because of RE3 eating a few thousands of my mp3s. I have backups I'm running through MIK atm, I'll see if it does anything nasty...

Then i'll try running it through RE2 if I can get it working, or perhaps RE3 at some stage AFTER making a new backup!!!

serato.com

DJ Krumble = Krumble producer?

I not feeling it.. breakcore mang?

respect from my peers should not be based on the equipment I use, mixing technique I prefer, how long i've been playing for or even if i hit the sync button on all of my mixes..... all of that is totally irrelevant to a filled up with false pride and ego minded know it all been thru it all self made "amazingly true and real" DJ..... I am not in the booth spinning for anybodies approval except the dance floors participants and in hopes of creating a solid following and showmanship filled name drawn to seeing my performance based on my the number one and greatest skill and what every great DJ has in common..... playing the best song track at the best time to bring out the best in as many people on the dance flooor as possible, while maintaining a sense of signature style and representation of how you build your set and sound and the love you express sharing every second of music you are playing to the world...... focus back to whats real... and seeing a couple of self idolizing DJ's disapproving of my mixing skill or equipment I use yet watching as the hundreds of dancing house music fanatics go crazy and in joy get what they came looking for...... will only make me smile even broader, greater and more satisfied than ever..... that the service I'm giving as the frontline to the latest or greatest of sounds is 100% being provided to the people who mean the most to me and my passsion for music... and thats the dancer party going love masters out there on the floor. peace..... ~:DmaQ

hopefully im missing something but. serrato seems to be lagging (maybe rane hardware?)

something as simple as a guitar tuner built in to each track, monitoring key.
leave the rest up to the artist.

Devoted serrato user

Devoted serrato user, you could learn how to spell the name of the thing you use hah!

But yeah guitar tuner style chromatic would be nice. But would fluctuate a lot bro lol. Good in the offline player maybe for determining a root note.. would be a lot easier than playing a synth along with every tune. I don't do that tho. I just use MIK and then NEVER use the keys to mix by. Because it's not always right and to rely on it = bad clash blends :P