Now I see that even the CUE button disengage the sync on a active deck...

serato.com

I understand what your saying, But I like the new way. That way if I drop a slower BPM I can mix it on the fly. Otherwise I would have to take off sync then reload it.

I think Serato addressed the request of a lot of users with this tweak.

Those users can use Simple Sync.

I don't mind hitting sync after every track load, but after every time I hit a cue point? Nahhhhhhhhh!

After every cue point is stupid... Once you sync it should be sync no matter how many times u hit cue thats how i mix in a song anyways...

It should quantize cue point strokes, IMHO, but this is an entirely different discussion ;)

what happen more often: mixing a song with similar tempo or jumping to a whole new different bpm?

the fact that now the sync is engaged when you press the hotcues mean that you can't go wrong when jumping from a different bpm, you can't forget that you have the sync engaged because if you preview your song you will notice...

only if it is an option ;)

Latter makes little sense to me. Can anyone elaborate on the advantages?


Can you please link to a few threads which deal with this?

Hi nik, I'm referring to the fact that SYNC seemed bard to deactivate to many users, probably now it's the other way around :) I have yet to test it , though, as I'm focusing on simple sync that I will actually use in gigs.

What's this all about? I don't see the point of having the "Delete/Shift" + "SYNC" X 2 if it's just going to disengage each time a track ends or is paused.........seems kinda redundant. Yeah, this is clearly a bug, or Serato really have lost their heads!

i pointed out another Idea. What do you think of that?:

serato.com

signs agreed that with the addition of sync with hot cues and double shift sync tap this is not an issue and sync should stay always on, independent of the bpm range (I seriously use sync for tracks far more different than 10%)

As do I. I like using DnB tracks in Future Garage mixes.......174bpm > 132bpm!



I couldn't really understand what you were trying to say in the beginning of your post...sorry. I hope you were agreeing w' my post though...haha.

I was referring to the user "signs", he agreed that the best way would be letting the sync obey what we told it to do and not act by its own.

yes, we are agreeing ;)

yes ^^

Just tested a little bit for about half an hour now. What I can say so far / my personal feelings:

I love the new SmartSync behavior when putting a new song to a deck, syncmode turns off automatic. No more danger of too fast or slow pitch if I change genres and forget to switch syncmode off. Happend to me several times since using 2.0 because I often just use the cuebutton to prelisten next song without using the playbutton and 2.0 dont sync bevore pressing the play button once. Now next song gets in sync even if I just press the cuebutton. I really dont mind that I have to press syncbotton again every time I load a new song to a deck. For me the better way now. What I dont understand because my english is perhaps not so good, is what is said about the cuepoint-syncmode problem? I dont see that using 2.1 with my VCI-300. Loaded song switches/stays in sync first time and everytime after pressing the cuebutton, using tempcue or hotcues. Perhaps I missunderstood something here.

What I also love, has nothing to do with the new sync behavior but I have to say this :-),
thank you Serato for adding the beatindicator to the Center Vertical Waveforms View! Comming from ScratchLive I nearly feel at home now :D

idefizz, do you use smart sync or simple sync?

How many times do you switch genres in a night? and do you realize that previously you could forgot that you have sync activated because if you previewed the track with hotcues or cues it played at normal speed and as soon as you made the real switch and pressed play the songs synced and hell happen (It happen two me several times)

But with the addition of syncing when you press hot cues now you can realize very fast that you forgot to turn off sync for this particular time when you want to switch genres and is very very easy to fix with a double tap in the sync button while holding shift...

I would really want to know your use case to understand why someone could think that is good to the sync to disengage automatically.

They way I see it is like this:

99% of the times I will transition beatmatching to a similar bpm song

1% of the time you will transition to a different BPM

If I need to push a button I want to push it 1% of the time and not 99% of the time, taking into account that there is an easy way to know and fix when you are in the 1% cases...

Hey selkie.

After reading the posts again and overthinking the things, I think I understand that point now. I just missunderstood the thing that syncmode would switch off everytime i press cue or hotcues and play the song only in original speed.

I'm using smartsync. I'm with you that it's not necessary that syncmode turns off when loading a new track with the new behavior that cuebuttons now put the song in sync. I realize it now at once, like you said, that I maybe forgott to turn off syncmode. And yes, you are also right, I surely dont switch genres that often. So I can quickly use the new feature with double tap on sync button while holding shift.

Maybe I was little bit too fast with my statement because I was so happy with the new behavior of the cue button in smartsync.

@ idefizz
same happend to me^^

I think we all now say, that Sync mode should be turned on whil loading even when track is paused.
Well if I was a Itch-Team-Member, i would change this in Final/next beta.

cheers

This would solve it all....

I can see serato are going to have to make a new tab in setup call ''Sync Settings'' and have all the options to have the sync the way you want it. I think its the only real way this will be solved for ALL users. Would also make it very powerfull sync software.

Some people want it so if you press sync it stays on till you turn it off.
Some people want it so you have to keep turning sync on when loading new track.

Some people want the above options in simply and smart sync.

Some people want the beat grids shown all the time some people only want to see beatgrids in a one of these / no sunve / simple sync / smart sync.

So that is alot of combos that could all be in its own steup screen, and would keep anybody happy im sure.

made an option like
- stop sync after load song in deck
- show visual Beatgrid in simple sync mode

My view is that they didn't bring simple sync back, just renamed the beatgrid option and changed a little the previous behaviour... that's why we have this "mess" now...

the original 1.8 simple sync supported beatgrids right?

Simple Sync = 1.7.1 Sync + Beatgrids disabled

This is the argument. It makes soooo much sense!

There seems to be a divide amongst the users for how they want Sync to operate. I thought that all along we were waiting for an "option". All Serato have to do is give us just that.

Give us the options, and everyone will be happy ......

Simple Sync (pre 2.0 behavior)
Smart Sync (post 2.0 behavior) w' Shift/Sync+Sync Return to Absolute Pitch

Get it done, and all will be good :)

I agree with blackavenger. This will make EVERYONE happy.

Totally in agreement with you both. I've gone through the forums and honestly can't see anyone who wanted the setup in this beta.

no, no....the simple Sync is a little be different to V1.x

You can use simple sync with shift sync to reset the BPM....i think, thats new and famous.
For me, i love simple sync, i can grab with one Button oposites BPM value and will not not automaticly be in Autosync. ( I will do this in my own oldschool-modus ;-)
This is diffrent to V1.x too, isnt it?
I only missed my beatgrid.....for VISUAL support

Having played some more tonight, I think the current setup is actually the same as 2.01, and actually is the best compromise.

I like the fact sync is not activated on loading a track.

Think I might have been kicking off over nothing.

Thanks for your feedback & thanks for being honest.

can you explain how do you use smart sync? I can't understand you would want to turn on the feature every time you change the song.

I would love to understand why you don't think this is logic:

I would love for "ANYONE" to counter this logic.

Serato, this makes no sense....why do Y'all think this makes sense? It's crazy!

Selkie, I do play a lot of different genres in a night. Maybe 10 times in a 4 hour set I'll want to change to a totally different BPM range.

I only used 2.01 a few times live because it was so unstable for me, but when I did, I found that disabling sync was not straightforward, and didn't work in an intuitive way.

Pressing sync once on track load, to confirm I want to sync that track, I find to be totally intuitive, it just feels right.

It may be one extra button push when I'm just playing House tracks or whatever, but it's still a heck of a lot less work that actually beatmixing the track myself!

I think that the ones that dont understand this is because they don't use sync often. I use it VERY often. 80-90% of my set is done with sync... 5% is slam mixing "fun" songs that work better that way.

Serato should focus smart mixing to heavy sync users... casual sync users shoul use simple sync

Heavy sync users don't want to be pressing a button 150 times each night

So basically, Serato have abandoned Smart Sync then. If you have to engage it for every mix, it is no longer "smart". Serato, Y'all might as well return the whole thing to Simple Sync like it was before 2.0!!

then you are not to use smart sync, you should use simple sync and just press a button whenever you need to sync... for you syncing is an special ocation and as such is obviously that you want it easy to.disengage... you have simple sync for that

for me sync is the base of my workflow, and obviously I want it to be always on until I decide it. I shoul have smart sync for that.

This discussion is based around something that is just a preference. Some DJs will like it some won't. There's no 'right' way to do it.

Selkie and blackavenger,

With regards to Smart Sync - I'm assuming you guys are not actually using Sync (blue) but are just using the auto tempo (yellow), is that right?

The reason I ask is because in 2.0.1 if you had a deck in Sync (blue), when you loaded a new track to that deck, the deck would go into Auto Tempo (yellow). Which means that if you wanted to Sync (blue) again you had to press the Sync button again. So in the sense of pressing the Sync button every time, this was already the case if you were indeed using Sync to do a beatgrid sync (blue) - which is what Smart Sync is primarily for. So it hasn't really changed, you aren't pressing Sync and more times that you would before, in fact you are now pressing less buttons because if you don't want to be in Sync mode you can just leave it and not press Sync as opposed to pressing Shift + Sync.

That's how I see it anyway, interested to hear your opinions :)

No, not necessarily, because when you loaded the new track, it would still be the same tempo, just not locked by the beat-grid. Haven't any of you needed to load up a track in a pinch...with only moments to spare before the track is about to run out? I have always assumed that what made the Smart Sync, "smart", was the fact that once engaged, it kept each subsequent track that is loaded, on time/tempo locked, until you decided to disengage it. It is this behavior that saves the day in that afore mentioned scenario.
Am I wrong? Because otherwise, why did 2.0's Smart Sync behave this way, if it were not intentional by you.

You see, what I am finding confusing is, now that Smart Sync essentially behaves like Simple Sync, what's the point of having the two........you might as well just have Simple Sync, seeing as how you've neutered the "Smart" one.


It's all good, if this isn't fixed, I'll just go back to manual beatmatching....never getting to use the (tempo-locked) SP-6....all the while saving up for the N.I. S4....'cause it's apparent that Y'all have lost your marbles!

You don't take away functionality...you build upon it!

This is a pretty big overstatement, the whole sync architecture in simple sync is completely different. The only difference is that smart sync now turns off sync when a deck is not actively in sync (playing) it seems even smarter to me personally.

blue? yellow? Im lost... in 2.0.1 i loaded the first song to deck A and press sync. then I loaded the second track in deck B and pressed sync...

I never had to press sync again... never... I could load 100 songs to each deck and would never press sync again.

NEVER...

I don't know if it was blue or yellow or what mode of sync, I just played and it worked.

If for any chance i wanted to change bpm abruply then and only then i would turn off sync... but as I stated that happen a lot less often than the oposite case.

the only gripe was that sometimes with abrupt changes i forgot i had sync activated because I previewed the song using hotcues so the sync didnt kick in till I pressed play... and it was problematic

BUT now that is fixed, because now sync kicks in (the bpm is equaled) when you use hotcues, so you would hear the problem and could solve it fast using shift+sync+sync

does that make sense? I feel we are not understanding each other...

Both of you are referring to Auto Tempo (Yellow) rather than an actual Beatgrid Sync, which I would assume the majority of Smart Sync users use.

If you are only using Smart Sync to Auto Tempo then wouldn't you guys prefer to use Simple Sync?

i dont know the difference between auto tempo and sync... I used the thing that equaled bpm, i had to nudge the track to equal the beatgrids. maybe what Im refering as sync is auto tempo?

please read carefully my previous post and understand my workflow...



ok, if its called auto tempo, thats what im using, but not simple sync! I want it the way it was in 2.0.1 whatever the name was.

simple sync doesnt set a master track, doesnt let you use synched sp6, and doesnt show you (and i dont understand why) the beatgrid...

Is more, in the mode I used in 2.0.1 if I had music with real drummers the sync/auto tempo respected the beatgrid and changed the pitch acordingly to keep the master bpm....

I don't want simple sync...

Fair enough!

Don't get me wrong guys, as a DJ I am personally quite happy with either way. We had a large number of users asking for this to be changed which is why it was changed. For someone who does beatgrid Syncs this would be a welcome change. Blackavenger, I can see your user case where perhaps it wouldn't be as quick to autotempo as in 2.0.1 but this is a small user case and even then all you would need to do is press one button! ;)

Perhaps one day we will have various Sync options that allow you to tweak these preferences.

Yes,. they wanted simple sync back, they have it...



small user case? so you are saying the mayority of the user base use sync only one time and then they don't use it... so you are focusing sync to the people that doesn't ues sync in a regular basis?

I erally want you to explain why my 99%/1% example doesn't apply to the mayority of the sync users:





One button?, in a regular gig I do 150-200 songs...that's 150-200 times to rpess one button when previously I had to press it 10? 20?

Please please EXPLAIN to me why the 99%/1% logic doesn't apply, I want to understand your design choice cause it affect me and all you have to say is "some" users didn't like it that way...

no because the beatgrids are handy indicators and because simple sync doesn't stay activated

I was referring to Blackavanger saying this : 'Haven't any of you needed to load up a track in a pinch...with only moments to spare before the track is about to run out'. So a scenario where a track was about to run out and you had to quickly load another one but you didn't have enough time to press the Sync button. This is a minority user case, no?



While it is exaggerated, your 99%/1% logic is not far from the truth, most people mix within a close BPM range. Lots of these points you are bringing up (see quote above), are only true when we are talking about using AutoTempo - which is a minority group of Smart Sync users. I think you are getting mixed up with these two. Most people who use Smart Sync are doing Beatgrids Syncs and therefor most of the points you have raised don't effect them at all.

I think the logic behind changing it was that most Smart Sync users use Beatgrid Sync rather than just Autotempo. This change will benefit them a little in that they still have to press Sync to do a beatgrid Sync (same as before) but now if they don't want to they don't have to press anything. However this seems to be where the problem is for users such as yourself who use Autotempo to mix rather than the actual Beatgrid Sync. Now instead of just loading tracks you have to put it back into Autotempo mode and I can see why that would be annoying as you now have to press Sync when you load a track where before you didn't. But you are assuming that everyone has this problem like I said most users use Beatgrid sync where they have to press Sync each time regardless, and these problems don't affect them. Do you see what i mean?

There is definitely a case here and we will take it on board, we've just been having a chat about it actually. If we find that the number of users in this position (such as yourselves) is quite large then I don't doubt we will either change it or have an option to. It seems this change would be better for those using Beatgrid sync but at the expense of the Autotempo functionality. We want to try keep everyone happy!

The reason why I'm fine either way is because when I'm DJing, if I only have to press one button per track to get it to Sync - I'm a happy camper :P But I do understand that this might interrupt a DJs workflow.

Group hug and thank you all for the feedback!

and imagine how happy some guys would be if they would only have to press the tempo button once per gig :-O
which is true for auto tempo in 2.0.x

Yup that is true. The reason why these sorts of decisions are hard is because (for example) we had threads similar to this when 2.0 came out with lots of users unhappy they had to press Shift + Sync to turn it off. They're happy now, but now others aren't. At the end of the day we are discussing preferences here, which means keeping as many people happy as we can.

hehe yeah i know, you can never please all. options are normally the best way to cover as much ground as possible.
however looking at the threads here and in the beta forum it seems the vast majority doesn't like the auto-disable.

going by the logic the default should be "turned on = on" > the static variant. everything else could be offered as an option in the settings (e.g. auto disengage sync)

Haha yeah but don't forget, opinions voiced on the forum are generally to do with something they dislike or want changed. We don't often get people starting a thread just to say 'Hey thanks guys I love this change'. Which is fine but we just need to bare in mind it's not always an accurate representation.

Either way this seems a valid point so we've taken it on board :)

of course, in many cases people only show up if they have a problem, hehe. so let me take this opportunity to say that except a few details (who's perfect anyway eh) Serato rocks!! :-D


excellent

: )

Exactly, this is the problem! Y'all having this draconian lock down on ITCH is really annoying! Thank God I still have my SL3 & TTs!!! If ITCH were mappable, I could map all this functionality to my personal preference......and for this reason, as of tomorrow, I am starting to save for the N.I. S4 w' Scratch Plugin.

Sadly, ITCH isn't what I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be essentially like ScratchLIVE, but more portable. My mistake....oh well : /

I read several posts by Cerla claiming that Simple Sync was going to come back, but as an "option".......now there are no options. Can you see why I am disappointed?

I fully expected that ITCH Sync would behave they way it has been for the past 4 months, but with the addition of the "Shift"/"Sync", "Sync" functionality. I guess that's just too much to ask for.

You've lost me. Simple Sync is back...as an option...

In case you missed my previous post I stated we have identified this change as an issue for certain users and will address the problem accordingly. We're nice guys here at Serato :)

im lost with all this sync talk lmfao

watts simple sync ?
i just want sync like 1.7.1

Ok, first things first THANK YOU for.lstening and taking.the time to elaborate.

Now, I only have one doubt... I understand now that Im not a beatgrid sync user, but an auto tempo user. I have only one doubt left I hope you can answer me.


Why do you say this changes BENEFITS beatgrid sync users?


It seem to me that it only have this effects:

1.- For beatgrid sync users nothing changes, if the needed to push the button before, they need to push it now too, so is the same.

2.- for the users that were complaining sync was too hard to deactivate it does... nothing because I think that user base is the simple sync user base so they werent doing beatgrids before or doing them only for visual help (thats why I think is IMPORTANT to show beatgrid in simple sync, because if you don't the simple sync user base will move to smart sync only for beatgrids and of course they will benefit of auto turn off)

3.- For the auto tempo users... it ruins all the fun of djing with serato and not having to worry of tempo matching at all (Now I have to focus in tempo matching, which doesnt add anything creative to my artistic presentation)

I hope you can answer this for me as I really think you are mixing the beatgrid sync user base with the simple sync user base and without intention forgeting your auto tempo user base.

oh, and I would like to chat with one of the beatgrid sync users cause I don't know any and I may be misrepresenting them

What I meant, Logan, was that the two essentially behave the same way....it was a stab at sarcasm.

Look, it's all good.....Y'all are not going to implement the logical course of action. Which is to have it behave the way it has since 2.0 but w' the Added "Shift" + "Sync, Sync".

I stopped using Sync because when disengaged it didn't return to Absolute Pitch...but hey, Y'all fixed that......then broke what I loved most about about "Smart Sync", not having to press the Sync button each and every time I load a new track.

The ONLY reason I even give a shit about using Sync is because of Y'all (finally) making the SP-6 Tempo Locked, and the fact that I MUST use Sync to utilize it. Otherwise, I could care less. But if I am going to have to use Sync to use the SP-6 the way I want to, then I want ITCH's Sync functionality to make sense to me, and this simply doesn't!

There's no point in me arguing my point any longer, it ain't gonna' make a DAMN bit of difference anyway.

sync as in 1,7 is back! you just have to select simple.sync in the preferences and forget about this topic ;)

I can't see your eyes rolling from here so it's hard to tell :P


And again, let me repeat myself - we realize this is an annoyance for some users so we will look into what can be done about this. Everyone's happy :)

Yeah, out of anger I replied to your post, having only read the first half of it. Then, after publishing it I saw that you said that Y'all were going to work something out to make everyone happy. Though, by then the *damage of my ill post had already been done.

So let me clear the air, and apologize for my irrational behavior.....I tend to get a little heated sometimes. Still, my overall frustration is warranted....I'm just handling the arguments all wrong.





*Another reason that Serato.com needs an Edit Button ;)

Please don't forget my question:

serato.com

That's okay. We do listen to you guys though, I think that's one of our strengths here.
I will keep you all posted on any changes or decisions made regarding this. I can't promise anything but like I said we are taking this on board.

Woops sorry selkie. I wasn't behind this decision so I'm not sure all the reasons for the change but I do know that lots of users were complaining about having to turn Sync off. With this change everything stays the same for beatgrid Sync users except they don't have to press Shift + Sync to turn it off now. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more to it than that but I do know that was one of the reasons.

I just wan t to make sure that those users that were complaining about having to turn Sync off are the ones that USE auto tempo / beatgrid sync... My fear is that they are the ones who will use sync not very often or in simple sync :(

This is very important for me, I don't remember seeing anyone complaining about 2.0.1 sync other than the ones who wanted 1.7 sync back

and don't forget auto tempo users :(

This is a valid point. The popular arguments were for an option to return to a Simpler (1.7-ish) Sync, and for a return to Absolute Pitch once disengaging Sync.

No this was beatgrid Sync users (remember Simple Sync wasn't even an option in 2.0.1).


We haven't! They were a small casualty of change that we are now revising.

We love all our users :P

dont bite my head of but i cant find it lol..

so i go setup in the right hand corner and then ?

It's in the 'Playback' tab of the Setup screen. You need to be running the 2.1 beta.

nothing says simple sync ?

You must be using a four-deck controller. The simple sync option is only available if you are using a two-deck ITCH controller. Sorry I should've mentioned that in my last post.

there is a combo box that says smart sync, change it

im using v7s i dont think the 4 deck option works with v7s

oouch, that's right :(

huh i thought the v7s are only a 2 deck controller ?

If you are using a V7 then yes you should see this option.

I'm guessing you aren't actually running the beta ;)
You can check what version you are running in the bottom left corner of the Setup screen.

You are running ITCH 2.0.1 (20102), the latest ITCH Release

ohhh lmfao sorry duhh

you need to run 2.1 beta...

yeah i just notice its 2.1 im using 2.0.1 hahah for some dumb reason i thought they the same lol..okay gonna go test it..thanks guys lol

okay last time im gonna bug you but i cant find the download link....in the public beta section

nm found it.....

+200, especially on a XONE DX

and the twitch too

I like how Smart sync is working now.
if i'm slamming tracks the sync stays on, (i dont stop inactive playhead)
when I want to change it up stop the inactive player, load a diff tempo and sync is off.
it's SWEET and feels more natural now - 2.0.1 felt a little awkward to disengage sync, now it's easy,

Also - whats so hard about having to "push the sync button" if you want to stop player and load next trac in sync? There was a time when we would manually "put a needle on a record" and have to cue with headphones ,
- perhaps an option for those who always want it on - but leave it how it is for the rest of us :D

and auto tempo users neither

Im glad you gave your two cents, I'll answer what's wrong with "push the sync button" versus your perspective...

You want to auto disengage sync on load when paused so you don't have to push two buttons (shift+sync+sync) everytime you change your genre to a diff tempo...

We don't want to auto disengage sync on load when paused so we don't have to push one button (sync) everytime we change our song to other song...

I can't be that a user case that happens very little in a DJ set has preference before a user case that happen on almost any song change during a DJ set...

does that makes sense to you lofty? I really want to understand...

(letting the deck that I'm not using playing makes me very confused as I always doublechek were I'm loading a track to not mess up, and with both track playing in a dark setting is complicated to see which one is the side actually sounding)

This is kind of what I meant before, it's just a preference there is no right or wrong way for this to behave. Some will like it the new way, some will like it the old. We will work to have it so no matter how it is used it can please everyone.

it could be, but in the case where there is a preference issue, you should favor the case where the disturbance is minor.

genre change is much less frequent than song change

in 1 hour you could change 4 times of genres... that means 4 times you will want to turn off sync, thats 8 button push

in 1 hour you put on average 30 songs, that means you will have to push a button 30 times

For saving the "trouble" to the users that need to push a button 8 times in an hour, you are forcing other users to push 30 times a button (that they didn't have to push before, and that the manual said they wouldn't need to push)

perhaps an option next to smart sync in preferences - disengage when paused --- or not to disengage when paused

they beat grids and smart sync seemed to flow better when I was playing today - I don't really pay attention to what I'm pushing :D -- I'm playing again tomorrow and I'll pay a little more attention to the sync -
I'm really happy with 2.1 otherwise

bingo :-P
very easy and very effective. options ftw :-D

That would be great but serato doesn't seem to like options very much

I don't know, Selkie...we do have to give them the benefit of the doubt. If 2.1 is officially released & there still isn't an option, then I say we give them hell! But until such time.......

I know they have the best for us in mind... I really think they do their design changes out of conviction, I'm trying to let them see the things from a perspective that could have escaped to them when making the choice they made... and I'm trying to understand where they were coming from to make those changes too

At this point I think we need to just wait and see as Logan D said they will be looking for better resolution to suit all.

I'm just trying to calm down, and save my real anger for a time when it's most warranted....LOL!

I hear you man...
Hell I'm just happy a Serato rep is talking to us. ;-)

Good Point, they were M.I.A. for a looong ass time. Prolly gettin' this release ready.

I think everything minimizing the risk of disaster is always the best option.

While a "power user" may find auto-SYNC super-convenient, manual re-SYNC is much safer for the uneducated user (trust me, it's the vast majority). Not to mention the drunk-user ;)

So, if Serato is not willing to compromise and give a checkbox option, the newer behavior is to be retained IMHO.

No offense, but you're probably the one that called for this stupid shit in Private Beta!

Great! So I guess everyone's perception of ITCH as an Amateur product is true then? Sacrifice features from the "Power User" to make it easier for the "Uneducated User".....what is this, Kindergarten? I thought we were supposed to be professionals here? Leave that simplified bullshit for programs like "Intro"!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I know I said I'd step back a bit....chillax until the final release. But the content of this post really pissed me off, and I just couldn't let it go!

I've done two gigs with this beta now and I can honestly say this new system is working for me.

Blackavenger, I'm trying to understand how you work. Surely you don't load a track and then just mix into it? How can your phrasing be correct? Surely in 2.01 you load a track, and cue it up before dropping it at the correct beat?

Because if you do, 2.01 drops automatically into the 'green' sync mode and you have to press sync to enter the 'blue' grid-synced mode anyway?

So in fact, if you only hit sync once, after cueing the track, 2.1 doesn't actually add ANY button presses at all?

Please explain what you do 'cos I'm genuinely confused.

lmfao

I have to go to work....will explain my position later.

First, yes you are offending. Second, you are wrong, as I called for SIMPLE SYNC option, not smart sync changes . Third, this is not "stupid shit" at all, but it makes perfect sense. Last, what Private Beta are you talking about???

A "professional software" doesn't put a user in a danger condition.

CDJs are considered professional, yet the majority of users are "uneducated" on them (no manual read at all), so they have to be dumb-proof.

Hope this helps your comprehension.

Cerla, the "danger" you are talking is inexistent... you can't forget to unsync now as the sync kicks in with cue points, so if you preview your track you inmediatly are aware that your song is super slow or super fast... then you shift+sync+sync and you are ready to go...

We have a dumb proof mode and is called siple sync... they let you (the simple sync users) have the sync you wanted... why they took away us what we had?



We used the "green" mode to mix (I think is yellow, not green), we never pressed sync again... we didn't use grid-sync, we used smart sync auto tempo...

The danger is indeed existant, and it's precisely the reason of the 2.1 tweak.

Well, is minimized with the new tweaks.

and I think the users that are more subjects to this risk (the ones that jump a lot between bpms) should be using simple sync instead, don't you?

yeah but the point is, in 2.1 no matter which sync you use you have to hit the sync button for every new track and that is a big downgrade from 2.0.x

... but a big upgrade in safety. SYNC as an "action" (opposed to a "status") leaves no room for human error. But this is just my .02.

you have sync as an action in simple sync!! I understand it usefulness, and I know you are talking from that side because is what you use.

but sync as an action can cause problems to if you are used to sync as a status... I come form ableton live and mixmeister, there always sync was a status...I got into ITCH in version 2, I continued with sync as a status and felt home... it was part of my purchase choice. sync as an action is troublesome for me because I forget to turn it on...

I know I can get used to push the button 150-200 times per night, is not hard, but is inconvenient!

If you change genre "shift+sync+sync" fix the problem in a split second... (and most probably when you are cueing), but is too troublesome to push a button once every 30 minutes (and the dance/electronic user base doesn't even do abroupt changes) so you change the option and make other users that were working just fine press a button every 2 minutes

That's clear. You should open a feature request topic asking for the option, I could support it too :) but let's leave 2.1 behavior as a default for the dumb-DJ next door ;)

just one more thing cerla that you havnt adressed:

why don't use simple sync for the dumb dj next door?

Im talking about smart sync, it supposed to be used by users that knows how beatgrids are made and used,not the standar straight to the AB mix dj.

Because the dumb guy may want to use beatgrids, especially on a 4 deck unit. But of course the option makes sense (more sense than reversing to 2.0 IMHO).

All well and good selkie, but you've just told us above that you don't use grid sync.



So you're actually a simple sync user, and I'd suggest you put your feature suggestions to Serato about that mode and leave my smart sync alone...

I have to disagree with you here, I am a professional DJ and the new sync method sucks ass. If I wanted to work with different BPMS I would turn off the gird and beat match the old school way. So educated uneducated is a bunch of BS. The way it was in 2.0 was perfect for those users headed in that direction. Symple Sync was the alternate for everyone else, not every user is on an NS6 or V7 or NS7.

Besides I have always been able to Mix Halved BPMS with sync 2.0 and a beat grid with no issues at all.

"perfect" with hundreds of complaints.

Like everything else

And BTW I'll be happily advocating for the option, so I don't see the point in all this "disagreeing" and calling BS.

I usually request features that I'd like, if nobody's opening the topic I can't +1 anything.

After all it makes sense that way... in 2.0.1 the sync button would always stay highlighted on my twitch, even though only the BPM was in sync. so I had to press sync either way to get the grids synced (too lazy to do it manually via touch strips).
So there's really no difference, except that twitch now shows that the tracks are not synced which I think is better.

On a sidenote, the hotcues should have an option to auto-sync everything once the sync-button is activated.

the difference affects auto tempo most

So say i got a song playing on deck 1 (Numark V7) @97bpm and the sync light is on, When I add another song to deck 1 and the bpm is about 88bpm. When I hit the sync button on this deck, the song that is playing automatically syncs to 88bpm, so now all of a sudden that song is slow, is that normal? I don't want that to happen, maybe I'm missing something?

Ok, I have used "shift+sync+sync" and that fixes the current song, but shouldn't the second song I'm cueing in (88bpm) automatically sync up to deck 1? why is the song playing syncing up to the new song that I'm cueing in?

Hey Fuidawg,

It's a little hard to see what you mean there. I'm assuming you are using Smart-Sync and not Simple Sync?

Remember that with 2.1, when a deck is in Sync, if it is paused and you load another song to that deck, then the deck will go out of Sync. It's hard to say but it seems that this change might be what is confusing you. This behavior is not necessarily what will be included in the 2.1 release, this is only in Beta remember.

it's Simple Sync, maybe i didn't explain it properly but this is what im doing, I have a track playing on deck 1 at 97 bpm with the sync turned on, I load another track to the other deck while deck 1 is still playing ... the second track has 90bpm, when I hit the sync button on this deck, the song that is playing on deck 1 @97 bpm changes to 90bpm so that song slows down .... Shouldn't the second song change the bpm to 97 to match deck 1?

is that how it should work?

When using Simple Sync, pressing Sync on a deck should only ever effect that deck.
I just tried what you said and it worked fine for me (not as you described). If you are sure the other deck is moving when you press Sync then please give me numbered steps that I would need to do to reproduce this. Cheers :)

Yes it should if you are using Simple Sync.

It does and sometimes the current song that is playing changes its bpm to match the new song so if the second song on deck 1 is 92 bpm the song on deck 1 changes from 97 to 9
Also if deck 1 is not playing when I hit the sync on deck 2 it lights up the sync button and matches the bpm to the song that is loaded on deck 1 even though its not playing

SORRY, i swear it was behaving like that before, it's working the way it should be as you mentioned ... ;-|

Well that's good news then! If it does start behaving weirdly again let me know.

well ive notice that the issue about pressing sync is not so big hen doing bormal gigs... I put one song each 1:30 pr 2 minutes.... so is anoyibg. but not so much.

When practicing in my house is really anoying as I do much more quick mixing... 10-30 seconds betweeb songs means tht I woyld love to not press the effin buttob each time... sometimes I even forgot it and have to manually adjust or press sync and have jump and hope.for the best...

In still thinking this should be reverted to 2.0.1 behavior... or with a range where it wouldn't be always on if the next song.is outside 10%-20% range

the only problem i notice now (on the V7'S) is sometimes I'm not looking when im hitting that sync button but instead I hit the 'Cue' button and that will stop the whole song completely ...

point in favor to bring 2.0.1 smart sync back. man it was easy and intuitive!

2.0.1 smart sync "easy and intuitive"? You may call it "powerful" but it's counter-intuitive, at best. That's why Simple Sync has been promptly introduced.

is super easy... you active first your master track, then your slave.. then you forget about it till you need to turn it off for a bpm jump...

whats the complication?

+1

I don't like the new behaviour at all.

the new beta 35 has the 2.0.x sync behavior :-)

BRAVO!!!!!!!

::CLAPS VERY LOUDLY::

I played for the past 3 hours...not a single glitch, dropout, freeze & MOST IMPORTANTLY Sync makes sense again! I had given up hope....you've proven me wrong, Serato! You actually do give a shit about what your customers want.

Thank You so much :)

is there another beta download besides 21033? if YES can somebody point me in the right direction?

same thread serato.com

Gracias Serato!!!

Where can I get a serato tshirt... I wanna show Im proud!!!!!!!!!! :)

Very happy with the un-change

:)

haha yeah, where's the ITCH merchandising?

Told you guys we listen :P

I'm glad you are all happy now!

I ended up really liking the change! Gutted now.

Not like the new/old version doesn't work though. I'll cope. ;o)

Hey I haven't got to use the new beta build 35, so does the sync now stay on for SMART sync? and for simple sync it comes off after every new track loaded?

Simple Sync still works the same as it used to in earlier ITCH versions.

Smart Sync works the same as it did in 2.0.1. If a track is in Sync mode and you load a new track to that deck it won't take that deck out of Sync mode (regardless of whether the deck is playing or paused).

Good to hear you listened to us! Thanks Serato!!!

faites une mise a jour svp la fonction sync était mieux sur la 1.7.1 please.

i was loving the way smart sync turned off, looks like ill just keep using the beta ive got at the moment if its going to be the other way round instead of using the final release when its ready :(

+1

+1

It's clear that Serato are going to have to eventually give us an assortment of different Sync behaviors. Different peeps like different methods. It's the only way to keep EVERYONE happy. I hope they can come up w' a solution for us all, instead of just screwing one segment of the customers over another. I'm speaking for us all, because I can't stand what Y'all are asking for, but I recognize that you deserve your preferred method just as much as I do.

Y'all need to make this a priority, Serato......like within the next version or two!!

I would like to hear reasons as why do you prefer to have the sync deactivated, when originally we had this debate the only reason given was that it could mess when doing a transition to a new BPM... is this the only reason to it?

Because when you load a track it doesn't grid sync. It 'simple syncs'.

To grid sync it, you have to press sync once anyway.

So no less button presses for you, but a lot of hassle for me when changing bpm.

ok. so your hassle is when changing bpm only...

I dont use grid sync. I only press sync once on my sets and forget about it...

when I do a change in bpm Im reminded to dwactivate the sync with the fact that now sync triggers.when using cue points. So I hear the wrong bpm.and I fix it very fast: shift+sync+sync

So if we.go back you get rid of the hassle of having o press shift sync when doing bpm change (rare ocurrence) anf I have the new hassle.if having to press sync 150 times each time I perform...

Does that make sense to you?

look at this mini set: I never press sync during the performance and I can focus on the creative part of djing

serato.com/playlists/selkie/09-12-2011

I would have to press sync 12 times to get that with the previos beta... not good

So actually, you have no requirement for smart sync, you want simple sync. Why are you even using smart sync mode if you don't need it's functionality?

you are confusing smart sync with grid sync.

I use smart sync beause:

1.- you "engage" sync in a deck instead of using sync as an action. this is gold

2.- I use sync in 95% of my set time

3.- I play songs with variable and loose tempo. so I need the grids to sync them. smart sync changes the pitch dinamicly to.maintain the master bpm. genious!

4,- I want to sync more than two decks (sp6). Only smart sync acomplish that.

You don't have to use beatgrids to use smart sync, the way that it tempo syncs is different from simple sync as well. The reason we changed this back to how it worked in 2.0 is because we added the shift+sync twice functionality to re-initialize the pitch, so this step was not really necessary. We also came to the conclusion that the argument for keeping it on was more just than the one for turning sync off. Simple sync turns sync off on every track load so if you are a user who doesn't use sync all the time & want it to turn off between track load, simple sync is probably the right choice for you. If you use sync always, you probably want to be dong less button presses, so smart sync is more catered that way.

Where was everyone that wanted sync to turn off on load to a paused deck when we were discussing this weeks ago :)

I really like the idea of bringing back simple sync!

Well, I for one think that SYNC makes PERFECT sense now, and thank Y'all for finally coming to your senses on seeing it our way .... ; ) .... J/K ... LOL!

I swear my reading comprehension is reasonable, and I always go through the release notes thoroughly for each build. When was this brought in?

Because I managed to miss it completely. If that's right then my complaints are sorted. Have I been thick or have you not made that change clear?

Sorry, brother....you've been thick! That's been a continuously revisited point in Mine & Selkie's arguments for this discussion. Shift + Sync, Sync enables Return to Absolute Pitch functionality.

Fair enough!

Would expect to see it in the release notes though.

serato.com


It was there all along, Bro ;)

Me = FAILING