ummm because the more people u bring in the more money youll get......

- Rotating the dancefloor keeps a steady stream of customers going to the bar

You have a better chance of winning power ball then winning this arguement against a bar owner...

Bar owners either are for it or against it...

Most of the ones that are for it are either owners of new bars, are friendly with the promoting team, or are about to go bankrupt so having 200 ppl in their bar opposed to the normal 20 and having to give up a % is worth it...

I'd say 9 out of 10 bars will tell you to go F yourself when it comes to this arguement lol

^ lol whaaat?

id have to agree - maybe if you do a special night of drink specials and charge cover then maybe get a % of cover but getting a % of the bar is probably not gonna happen - shoot for either a % of bar staff tips or more money for your gig

I don't know what you guys are talking about, a lot of Dj's get % of the bar. And if you're promoting too it should be standard, most promoters I know won't take on a new venue unless they're getting door and a %, why should the Dj be different, especially if he's wearing two hats at once and most likely not getting a cut of the door but a small flat fee?

Especially in this day and age, I know tons of bars these days that try and get away with "oh, we'll throw you a few peanuts, but you get percentage of the bar if we get busy" (as if they're doing YOU a service). That way they don't have to lift a finger in building their own place up.


Evensteven, don't say this...

"Everybody that works in the bar contributes to the success of a night"

That just gives them an excuse to say "if I have to pay you a percent, then I have to pay the bus boys, the bar girls, the coat check, security all a percent since they all contribute too, I'm not doing that"

Also if he doesn't seem like he's into it, even back in the day we used to negotiate a set goal, then %. Like once the bar makes 2K, then you get so much %. That way he won't feel like he's losing out too much since you're basically guaranteeing him a good chunk of money before he has to start kicking back to you.

If he does go for it, always remember to look at the read outs, a lot of bars will try and fuck with you and say "we only made X amount" rather than what they really made.

here we go. number one best reason a dj should get percentage of the bar........

(drum roll please)

"Cause if you don't make money then I don't make money"

POW!

I think what they are saying is that most bar owners are greedy and don't and won't want to share, even if there spot is hurting...a lot of times, once the owner sees the dj making more money than the owner thinks the dj should be making, they'll be like, F that, I am gonna find a $200 dj....it's not that it can't be done, but its a rare owner that actually values the dj for things other than just the music

Thanks for everyone's input. I might still give it a try. I'm pretty sure shes gonna ask me to bring in a minimum # of people each night, but, obviously, that's not what I'm signing up for. If it doesn't go through, I'll just have to stick w/ a higher hourly rate

LoL...YOU'RE FIRED!!

You're paid to do your job...suck it up. If you don't like it, go DJ somewhere else.
The owner will get someone else to spin. Unless you're willing to take a paycut when the bar DOESN'T do well...you can't ask for shit otherwise.

You have a better chance at givin a shoutout to tipping the bartenders throughout the night and receiving a 20 spot from THEM!

Honestly...to save the trouble...I just ask for a higher flat rate...I learned this at a venue where they had really slow bartenders. They were busy, but they just didn't sell much....

Plus, A lot of bar owners are really shady when telling you haw much the bar made that night...

One of the spots I use to work in would give me an extra $50 if we made over $2000 in sales at the bar, and the one night the other manager told me the numbers and they came out to $1945 for the night. DIdn't want to cause a fuss but I had my doubts. Would have made a bigger deal if that was the person that always paid me.

Although I have never done it, best way to make this happen is or the way to "open the door" is to have a "Bar Guarantee".

Let's say if the Bar is already doing $1000 per night on average ANYWAY - approach the owner and say I get XX% over (or after) that $1000

If you cause the bar to do $2000 because of your Marketing, Promotion, DJ skills, Etc, and you have a 15% agreement - you get $150 (or $300 if he includes the 1st $1000) at end of night. If the bar does $900 - you walk out with NOTHING because you didn't reach the guarantee.

It is easier and safer to just be a promoter and get the Door (first) and if you are bringing in shitloads of people (bar is making $3000-5000 now instead of $1000) THEN ask for a percentage on top of Door.

if you theme, market and promote yourself/events well - you can move (your crowd) to a bar that WILL give a door plus bar percentage after you have proven yourself.

just my theoretical two pennies...

Except hes doing 2 jobs and only being compensated for one

every place is going to be a little different, but here is an example from a sports bar where I play about one weekend a month...

- friday I will usually DJ from 9PM-1:30AM with no cover at the door, and I get my flat rate of $250 regardless.
BUT if the total bar sales (food/drinks) reach $3000 then I get a $50 bonus, at $3500 another $50, and so on... So basically I'm getting around 10% of the total bar sales - unless it is dead (which rarely happens) and then I still get my minimum guarantee.

Saturday - I usually throw some kind of live event (with either a few local bands or rappers) and charge a cover at the door, and I usually end up running lights/sound and DJing between acts.
I still get my regular $250, PLUS the entire door (usually around 400-500 -most of which goes to pay the performers) and these are usually the busiest nights and almost always reach my bonus benchmark.

It all boils down to maintaining a good relationship with the owner, and letting them understand it is a win-win situation if there is an insentive involved - the more money you make for them, in turn the more money you make also.

However, at some other places I play I've found it easier to just charge a bit more and not deal with %'s

I've had similar deals to this at some spots that I have worked. But there are so many bars and so much competition in my area it dilutes the pay. For example I played at a spot that recently was sold and my base pay was $250 with a bonus structure of an additional $50 for every $500 after 4500. However another spot I play at pays a guaranteed $300 but makes like 12-17k every fri/sat.

He gets paid for DJin
He can keep a percentage of the door (if there's a charge. If not, better start )...not the bar.

according to the original post



if hes promoting then hes doing 2 peoples jobs and only being paid for one, so either the owner needs to comp him for the extra job or get off hist back about promoting the venue and let him stick to djing

I am laughing at you guys talking about 1-5k...One of the spots I did gave me super nice bonus when they did over 25k....they averaged 18k a night....the first time they said mentioned bonus to me they did 30k...them bottles were poppin...

To the original poster: use the suggestions that were made. If they normally make 1k (as an example) and they do 2k, try to work a bonus structure....yes, they will be shady but if they are making an extra k, they should be happy to pay out something extra...

One of my local spots gave us a similar deal, flat rate dj pay , plus a percentage if they made over x amount(usually the nightly avg) and I hit a certain amount of people on the guestlist...it made it easier for me to promote a lil harder...

It makes me wonder what those megaclubs in LV make...

SORRY FOR MISQUOTE

according to the original post
You are 100% right.
But he can't ask for a percentage of the bar. Just doesn't work that way

it acutually happens quite often

It never hurts to ask for something especially when you have a plan to make it mutually benifitial, you not gonna get fired for proposing that you can make them extra money and to break you off some. The worst they can say is no and nothing changes the best that can happen if you get a raise. Think it through and go for it.

Actually it does all the time, are you not reading the thread?

I get a flat fee and a % from the bar at two of my weekly spots... it's not out of the question to ask. You just have to figure out a way to show value. And unfortunately every bar/club is different when it comes to how you prove it.

But if your doing two jobs.. then you should get paid for both.

Cut and dry they shouldn't. If anything get a percentage off of the door. I've always told club managers it is your job to get people to the club. It is my job as the DJ to keep them at the club.

lol whaaaaaaaaat??? the hell is the problem here? why is this hard to grasp?? lol

my father owned a club and i'm a dj so i see on both sides of the fence. me personally, i don't believe that DJ's should get a percentage of the bar unless they have some stake in the venue.

at a bar/club everyone has a job and should get paid for their job and their job alone. the dj is a small notch in a cog that influences the amount of money that the bar makes and therefore is not entitled to any of its profits. as notch you are entitled to the pay agreed for your job.

the owner owns the club and makes profits from drink sales and cover. he then has to pay employees from this income which includes the dj. as the owner, he/she is responsible for profit and loss regardless of whether the venue made money. this risk as the owner is why he is entitled to 100% profit from the bar and cover.

as a dj you don't incur any risk. you get paid whether or not the venue has 1 or 1,000 people. and if you don't get paid if the venue has 1 person in it...you know you done fucked up right?

lol



I think i see where the disconnect is here. Yes if you are just DJing you should NOT get a percentage of the bar unless your some kind of big headliner name whos gonna be a draw that the venue WANTS to be there. In other words if your major contribution to the bar is being able to blend the new britney into the new LMFAO and posting a "come see me at the club tonight" status on favebook then yes you are a dj\atmosphere creator and should be paid as such. On the other hand if your gonna be making phone calls, printing and passing out fliers, theming, going out and networking up so that on our say you can double the bars income then yes you most certianly should be allotted a percentage of the bar because your doing two peoples jobs and bennefitting the establishment.

to the OP

From what Ive seen a good stratagey to get this accomplished would be to talk to the owner and get an average of what the bar makes, tell him that you can double that (or whatever) but youll need to be compensated because there is gonna be a MASSIVE amount of work and materials put into it. Then put forth a deal where they keep 100% of the bar UP TO the average amount, then after that you get a percentage. In other words if they are pulling in $5Gs a night average tell them that up until 5K they gat 100% then for every $500 after that you get 10% or something like that. Then its no risk to them and it reflects the results of the work you put in in a quantifiable way.

Just explain to them that your gonna be putting in massive work on this and even though it will cause them to pay you more it will be mutually benefitial because they will be MAKING more on the bottom end, and if they dont it wont hurt them one bit.

Just be SURE you can pull in the kinda numbers your throwning at them because nothings worse than finally getting this deal in place then not being able to capitalise on it.



100% true BUT if you can show them that you being there DOES influence the amount of money the bar makes then you should in fact be entitled.

I hustled... stuff that is illegal to possess... when I was a teenager and now I wear a shirt and tie to my cushy @$$ office job every day. I have bought and sold companies. I have been a DJ for over a decade. In the end hustle is hustle. It's all game. Period. Top to bottom. You just need to get your head right and your pitch ready to spit at that manager. And if he doesn't take it then go from club to club and bar to bar till you find one that will. That's all there is to it.

No matter the situation, asking and not getting is better than never asking


nm. nh

Except when you're doing more than just your job alone, that's the bottom line here that some people in this thread are not getting. They're also not getting that it doesn't matter whether or not you think Dj's should get a percent at the bar, it's something that happens regularly so the point of should or shouldn't becomes moot.

Me - I work flat fee, I am not a promoter, I don't want to be a promoter even if it means I can make more money, those days are done for me and I want no part of that responsibility.



One of my own regular sayings when the subject comes up.

The second they want me to promote, I either tell them they've got the wrong guy, or I point them in the direction of a good promoter. But just because I personally work this way, doesn't mean it's not right for someone who does want to wear the extra to expect compensation. If for some reason in the rare event that I did take on the extra responsibility, I want the extra money too since I am no longer doing my job alone.

Standard promoter agreements usually are door and percent of the bar. Some places do door only, but most promoters I know will only take a venue if percentage of the bar is involved and these are promoters that I don't see get refused often. Doesn't matter if people reading this think it should or shouldn't be this way, it's a common way of doing business.

Me I probably wouldn't ask for all that because again, I have no interest in that role, but if did, I would probably reduce my flat fee, take door and put my own girl on to make sure I don't get cheated, and let them keep the bar. But the point is I'm still getting something for my efforts. And if I don't deliver they have every right to send me packing.

To the OP I don't think anybody has asked you what type of venue this is. Is it a bar or club? Are they already charging at the door or is it a walk in as you please type of place? Is it a local where they have their own built in clientele and if not, how much effort do they put in to getting a crowd in there, or do they leave it all up to you?

So many variables when working out a deal.

If it's a walk in as you please neighborhood spot, I would probably just ask the flat fee with a bonus after so much spent at the bar/made at the door. I try to keep my deals as simple as possible, but that's me.

That's what I was saying in that thread about management with little music knowledge. You at least have to try to compromise if you're not happy at your spot, if you just grin and bare it, where's that going to get you. You may not always come out with the win, but at least you explored the possibility.




+1

All that needs to be said on this topic.

ask them for a sliding scale. it's what I do with weekly venues

^^^ what's a sliding scale?

its what you use to measure out coke

setting several quotas on an any given night and making sliding percentages as the quotas increase.

for ex.: if bar makes over $5000 you get $250 or 5%, if bar makes over $6000 you get $360 or 6%, if bar makes $7000 you get $490 or 7%, and so on and so on. typically this wouldn't include percentages.

sliding scale.

I have run a few bars before and the nights where people didnt wanna hear Underground Hip-Hop (most nights then lol) I would hire other DJ's to play. Now I know a lot of you on here are professional DJ's and run with contracts etc but to most DJ's I use to give them a standard amount (if I knew they would bring a half decent crowd) and if the night went well and I took a good amount behind the bar I used to drop them a bit more money. But like a few people said in this thread, most bar owners will tell you to do one. There are so many people that can do what we do, maybe not to the level we think we are in our own heads. To most people, they cant tell much of a difference between a good DJ and an average one. Unless the DJ is bringing Jazzy Jeff skills then he aint got no real bargaining power.

I kinda dissagree with this due to what you said before it





there are alot of djs here making a TOOOOONNN of money at the door and percentage of the bar who hold alot of bargining power, they arent that good technically average at best but they network like crazy and can get people in the doors. Skills arent necesarily a direct translation to what walks in the door

that's a triple beam. Don't confuse the kid.

well, in my small(microscopic) market, finally both skills and following are becoming directly related.
-up until about 5 years ago my area was saturated with DJ's that just played songs (no mixing) and I was fed up so I decided to get out of the bedroom, and start playing live. (disclaimer* I'm no Jazzy Jeff) but I believe I have influenced other DJ's around here to step up their game by showing just what is truly possible with a little dedication and practice. And as just as the crowds have began to take notice, thankfully so have the club owners.

Well where I live, if some DJ comes to me and demands a percentage of the bar take then Im gonna tell him to pack his shit up and go somewhere else. In this day and age work is hard to come by and like I said, unless he has some top notch skills then he aint gonna be too hard to replace. And the workers I used to have at the bar used to be just as much of an asset but I didnt see them asking for a cut of the DJ's money. Im all for a DJ making the right amount but when it comes to wanting a piece of another pie, forget it.

Go for bar sells... if you get more and more people than it may work against them... just make sure they don't try to limit you to a certain amount

If he is asking you to promote the place then come to him as a promoter not as a dj with your argument...

-I need to build a decent "street team"
-i'll need a flyer and poster for the street team to distribute
-it will come in handy so were able to get dj xyz (whom will pack the place!)
-the share amount of time and dedication to this will take time/monay away from other opportunities
- also add that you only get paid if the bar is getting paid!! Thus little risk to the owner.

NEVER EVER MAKE A GUARANTEE! Say do to the research, we can expect to see x-y amount of ppl

I like the sliding scale idea myself, gonna pitch it when the time is right at my place...

What place would that be? Podunk?

% and Door is the only way to go in MAJOR cities. I'm just sayin.

Maybe if he is a MAJOR DJ he would get that. But how many places can claim to having that apart from places like LA, Vegas, NY etc.

question, you said "if some DJ comes to me and demands a percentage of the bar take then Im gonna tell him to pack his shit up and go somewhere else", what if that DJ comes equiped with a following that would tripple the amount of customers comming in the door and the bar sales? Would you still send him packing if he asked for a cut of the bar even though it would increase the bars profits for the night

Thats my point. How many DJ's are gonna come with such a following week in, week out. Not many. And the ones that do are very hard to come by. DJ's these days believe they are a lot better than they really are. How many of you can honestly say that if your club/bar manager got rid of you that they couldnt just get someone else in that is either on the same level as you or even better I know a few real good DJ's in my hometown that people really get down to in the club but it aint like that if we heard they wernt playing there no more that no one would go their again. Plus there are like 7 nightclubs in my city that has different music styles and DJ's so people you see in one club one week might be in the next club the following week. A club has a bigger name than most DJ's. And since we are talking about bars then yes, I would tell the DJ to pack his shit up because the bar would do alright without him. I would never get held to ransom by someone asking for a percentage of what goes on behind the bar. Who knows if the people he brings in are big drinkers?. Maybe its the loyal weekday/weekend customers that have filled my till up and not the 20-30 (at pure maximum) that the DJ has brought.

Reasons to ask for a % of bar:

- Venue guarantees "no cover" entry ("never a cover charge" places), or they let a majority of people in free (like 21+ in free all night, etc)
- Venue is small, doesn't charge a cover (typical small bar), and the owner doesn't want to shell out $250 for a "might be a good night".
- Some towns have mostly no cover bars (like here, typically ladies are in free till a certain time, etc), so the minute you have a night with a $10 cover for the promoter, the people say "forget it i'll go next door"...
- there's no risk to the bar of losing money to the DJ on a bad night.

Reasons against:
I've seen some $1 fill up draft beer nights with 150-200 people and the bar rings $1000... so 10% (which is high) is 100 bucks (bad). But the same bar won't pay a $250 DJ because they know there ring up will be low anyways...
You have to trust the management to give you ALL the numbers and not just 2 or 3 of the 6 registers..

The bonus structure with sliding scale sounds good though, kind of a win win, esp. if the bar keeps the cover.

I get what your saying but i cant accept it as a blanket statment because as you said its rare that a dj can do it but they do exist. My spot has a once a month party that this local dj throws and on that night busniess literally tripples just because the people he personally knows shows up and the organisations hes involved with promote to their own people. That dj gets a percentage of the bar but our bar usually tripples in sales.

Yeah, I would give a good DJ a bit more money if I had a good take behind the bar. But even if he does come with a good crowd, who is to tell if they are the ones buying all the drinks. You go down the road of asking for a percentage of bar take and you are leaving yourself open for having the bar manager wanting to give you less money if the bar take is poor. I always told DJ's that I booked that if they promote it well, sell tickets etc then they have all the door plus a fee and if I had a good night Ill chuck in a sweetener. Plus I used to get them drinks most of the night. If they asked for a percentage of the bar after that I would get on the 1210's myself lol

I had this EXACT argument with one of my owners once...his argument was that I was supposed to not only be the MAIN promoter, but also the ONLY promoter. To top it off he only wanted to pay % of bar (with no minimum flat rate). So obviously I left the place once I realized this guy wasn't bringing in anyone but my friends.

That's because DJs with monthly spots are smart. It builds sort of little "exclusive" feeling about it when he shows up in town for that one night. If a guy is DJing at the same spot 2-3 times a week every week people get bored with it, and also figure that if they don't go today, they can go another day. Not only that but if you actually have people following you from club to club it makes it more interesting for them as well considering that they are in a different venue, different people, etc, etc

very true

as a DJ you have the power to control the flow to the bar.... it's a cyclical thing.... some clubs give me $35 - 50 per bottle sold from my guests that are there.....that's on top of the sliding scale.... it's possible..it's been done..it doesn't take a big market....all it takes is solid negotiation skills and a proven history that you can sell the bar and bottle service.

And it all depends on where/what type of bars you DJ. The majority of DJ's aint gonna have no bargaining power. Not if your DJ'ing in Nowherseville, USA or Quiteasshit Town, UK lol

not necessariily true, if your djing in a small town odds are there arent alot of people who go out, you have your same customers day in and day out, so if you can find a DJ who can bring in a clientelle who normally dosent come then he has power.

So do you get a percentage of the bar?

And I aint buying that anyway. I dont know many DJ's if any that bring a big crowd with them to all gigs. If you had the same people going to watch their friend 2-3 times a week thats pretty sad and that place would get stale very quickly. If you have a big name and your gonna attract people just on your namwe alone then yeah, you may have some power, but like I said, how many DJ's can actually claim that. Especially on these boards?

Few DJ's are people i want to go see on any regular basis... especially local house DJ's...

For me, I think the most valuable DJ is someone who can attract more and more people... That way the crowd keeps getting larger. people tell their friends, and there is a snowball effect. some people won't come next week, but if they tell their friends how awesome it was, than their friends will come. maybe the week after they will come with their friends, bring chicks with them, and boom. 4 times as many people on the 3rd week.

Last club I had residency at (before it hit the shithole) I actually was establishing that, first 3 weeks I was there barely anyone was there. Then one random night a shitload of people showed up, loved it and came the following week, and the week after that. It's not hard to do (or at least to me) you just gotta act like your a human behind the deck, wave at people as they are leaving, give shout outs to random shit, and simply have fun. If anyone is wondering why I am no longer a resident it is because the owner refused to increase my pay after I attracted this crowd, and he refused to hire promoters to accompany this crowd...and this fucker wanted me to learn how to DJ hip-hop, house, dubstep, reggae/dancehall, gay anthems IN THE SAME NIGHT....he clearly did not understand how confusing that is to people when one minute your listening to Vybz Kartel then 10 minutes later your listening to raining men, followed by some Skrillex.

I hate owners like that... idiots. he obviously knew what he was doing by the empty bar... maybe he liked it like that.

My thing is. How you gonna get percentage of the bar profits when you're drinking???????

That depends on IF you're drinking, and how much. Which reflects on your maturity and professionalism as a DJ. If you're playing at the bar to get pissy drunk for free then you're not gonna get much cash. If you're not drinking at all you come off as much more professional but probably a bit too uptight. I find the most success in keeping my drinking to a moderate level and having my friends BUY my drinks from the bar so my drinking isn't so obvious to management and I'm not all uptight. It keeps the free drinks variable out of the DJ pay equation. Works well for me.

I am sure it is a plus when you can get it, but the clubs I have spun at pay a flate rate and keep the rest for themselves

my wife pisses me off sometimes. she loves to come to clubs when i dj so she can drink for free... not cool with me, and she doesnt see why...

lol i have the same problem, i dont mind giving her a drink or 2 but they dont see why i have a problem when their downing their drink in 5 seconds then asking for more every 10 minutes, its like does the concept of not wearing out your welcome mean anything to you

I suggest you heed Yoshi's Advice. He's been dropping knowledge on me for years since I met him thru Rap Attack Lives.... Always good advice on the DJ game and industry.

So im just wondering what has been the outcome for the DJ who posted this thread? Everybody's insights have been the most part very informative im just wondering how they played out

Oh dang, this was so long ago, I don't even remember what bar this was for. If I remember correctly, this bar closed down, haha.

Weird I didn't get any email for updates on this thread. Thank you for the ton of input from everybody though

haha hopefully another door opened. im starting a small promotion company going around town for small venues and i ran into this thread and picked up on a lot of good info. best of luck to everyone if anybody runs into a bind including myself id like to see this thread come back to life again.

what is nm. nh ? been seeing it a lot and google is saying battery.

it stands for No Misquote and No Homo....

See how I misquoted what you said above - nm nh gives you forum immunity against what I did (unless we don't care and do it anyway).

ok thanks been trying to figure it out with no luck.