To clarify what I am asking specifically:

Why restrict a capable controller (the NS7) from 4 deck control? A certain key combination could be used to trigger deck switching (similar to loop rolls, which isn't the most comfortable combination but at least it was added)? To me it seems quite underhanded to cripple controller hardware in this manner, and such disregard for features for existing customers is the source of my disappointment and ultimate coming switch from Serato products.

Thanks for reading

To see words like underhanded, crippled and disregard is extremely unfair, given that Numark and Serato have not once said that the NS7 would ever be more than what it was explicitly designed to do - i.e. 2 decks. The expectation is yours and not in any way fuelled by Numark or Serato.

It was designed to be a 2 deck controller and nothing more. Given ITCH's 1 to 1 mapping foundation, expectation of anything more is going to lead to disappointment. Perhaps an updated NS7 will come along that is explicitly designed to manage 4 decks properly will come along, rather than a software hack that will make the NS7 a really bad 4 deck controller and totally abandon the whole point of software and hardware working in harmony.

Buy DJ equipment based on what it can do, rather than what it might.

You only have 2 volume faders on the NS7. 4 channels would be a seriously clunky affair.

2 V7s + 2 PCs will do the trick.

Off-topic:

Silently hoping that 4xV7's + 1Pc (using 2 usb busses) will do the trick in the near future.

On topic:
+1 for Skratchworx's comment. He's is completely right. Actually, being an Ns7 user, I wouldn't feel very comfortable with 2 faders and 2 platters steering 4 channels.
I would consider a switch from Ns7 to Ns6 as soon it comes out.

Sorry, but this sounds wrong.

As cerla and Kmx have outlined - you have only 2 channel faders/eq-sets

All other 4 deck Itch controllers have 4 channel faders.

not sure when you purchased your ns7 but until the xone dx came out there was not 4 deck control for itch. If you purchased it after then the product page shows which controller was for four decks. Wanting four deck control i can understand but feeling like serato cheated you just does not compute. Adding for deck controllers does NOT cripple your current controller.

If you purchased a mixer with 2 channels and a new version comes out with 8 channels your current mixer did not get crippled. Hardware is hardware.

Just to be clear, I bought the NS7 as a 2 deck controller, and I am very satisfied with the hardware.

My dissatisfaction is just with the software, and I completely acknowledge that a controller explicitly designed for 4 deck control would handle such activities better. However, I think we can also acknowledge there are two fader/two EQ controller mixers that still capably handle 4 decks (even the older VCI's can do this and quite capably, I might add based on my experience using them).

@skratchworx: Those words are fueled primarily by my discontent with Serato's handling of ITCH (which is to update infrequently and regularly miss expressed deadlines by a lot more than a few weeks or months, we have been talking about ITCH 2.0 for quite awhile as I'm sure any of us here can agree, regardless of how bad we each want it individually). To use the word "crippled," I would say that ITCH cripples what is otherwise brilliant hardware and through using other programs I think the controller shines more with VDJ, for example. And of course, alternatives like this are available, but part of the costs you pay for a controller like the NS7 come from software development, and I just wish the featureset had been more effectively developed, particularly in a more timely manner.

I just truly believe that Serato has dropped the ball with ITCH in a lot of ways. Perhaps initially its generally limited functionality suited the market, but now it seems that competition has far exceeded it, and strangely it has been many months without any sort of shot back at this competition.

Anyway, thanks for keeping the conversation civil, like I said I'm not trying to bash Serato. Scratch Live for example is a great, modular program that I have used a lot, and I also love my NS7.

TL;DR: I personally feel like Serato ITCH has not kept up with competition, and has not been well supported based on my experience with other software vendors in the DJ software market.

Thanks for your replies though guys, I like getting some perspective, and perhaps I came off a bit harsh initially. No uber passionate discontent here, just finding it unfortunate that competitors have truly surpassed Serato's quality and support in the software realm from my perspective. I wish the best of luck to the developers and hope the next update puts ITCH back in real competition with its competitors.

it will always be a yo-yo game between competitors.... thing is traktor 2 isnt out yet ( i think) -- so the surpassing hasn't even begun

Yeah, I agree. But..for example
I was just scrolling through a thread and I saw you speculating about the fate of ITCH 2.0 nearly a year ago. A YEAR ago, numerous other people were expressing major complaints about ITCH and its feature set, and asking a lot about the next major overhaul, ITCH 2.0, whatever you want to call it. Going through those threads, Serato response is very limited and unclear, and that's fine given that predicting release dates is so difficult.

The point is though that we have all been watching competition surpass ITCH in particular for quite awhile now. As I said, I hope (and expect) that ITCH 2.0 will be up to par and add useful new features (such as The Bridge). However, it's long overdue, and reading some of the incredibly old threads that are still going on the front page of these forums is a testament to that.

It is definitely a yo-yo game between competitors, unfortunately ITCH seems to be the one that is always returning with something fruitful last.

I feel like ITCH is merely trying to play catch up (and doing so very slowly) rather than innovating, or matching competition.

this is the by product of 40 threads about the same subject.... SERATO officially anounced a re-work in the itch software that caused the delay but explained that the re-work was needed cause it would allow for features to be added ion the future later. I look at itch/serato like the ipad it was the first so from here on out it will always be playing catch up cause the comp will no doubt try to top it

I've read this reported by users but I had not actually seen it.

Where is the official announcement, could you link it to me?

Like... which ones?

here's an example: Watchwww.youtube.com

same degree of convenience!

.....Like the NS7.

And this might be hard to swallow - but its just software. Hardware to software mixing isn't how it works - nor does it put a "cap" on the amount of decks you can have - but who wants to make the Ns7 four deck capable? why would anyone buy an Ns6 then?

Its all software based - so pushing the audio out isn't the issue - its how you would control it. Torq lets the NS7 have four decks - playing at the same time - WITH less taxing happening on the system. Torq has a function where you can "focus" on a deck - or select a deck - AB for the left side - CD on the right. I don't know how the focus would or could work with the NS7 - but I DO know that it can play 4 track at the same time. If your volume/eq/etc settings are different going from deck A - to B - you'd have to turn the knobs to where its currently marked to regain one - to - one control of that knob for the new deck and vice versa.

Which is why a Ns7 and two V7s wouldn't be so crazy after all. Still would need a way to tweak the EQ settings for the other two decks in ITCH

But I don't like to state things I can't prove SO - I made a quick video.

Watchwww.youtube.com

sorry for the daarrrkkkneesss! lolol I didn't realize how dark it was.

And there you described exactly what itch is not. People saying but you cannot get the controller on other software. Well maybe you should hound them into making a controller you would use with their software

^ I'm not 100% sure what you were trying to say but - all I am saying is that it IS possible - regardless of what itch "is not". But it won't matter - one will have a choice depending on the need...

Its no mistake that itch's ability to pull touching the pc out of the mix is important - and is why I love itch...but to say 4 deck support shouldn't be done isn't what's being said - I would just want better support for the 2 decks I have...

But that it "couldn't" be done? That is far from the truth.

no one is saying it cant be done just saying it probably wont be done in the general frame of what itch is and it's MO.
also how the code is read between the controllers and the software may have a bit to do with the workings

I know but I wonder what would be the things a coder would have to do it make it so - I mean the idea of switching from decks a to b on one side and c to d on the other is exactly how the Ns6 is going to do it....so I wonder - aside from making the ns6 not very appealing to ns7 owners - what else would hold them back?

Andb you aren't apart of those saying it can't be done - but if you scroll up a bit...

How about an actual example?
Like this:
Watchwww.youtube.com

Plenty of 2 deck controllers get 4 deck use, nothing ridiculous/unreasonable about this idea, I'm quite surprised this is such blasphemy to you guys. It's a pretty standard use of controllers, especially VCI's...

No offense, but this might work in special cases, but if you're in a club, you don'T want your mix to be effed up by some mistake you made caused by having multiple layers.

While this may be feasible for the deck control, I don't think it is practical for mixing purposes.

+1.
Don't forget that itch stands for 1 to 1 mapping. Keep everything simple and intuitive.
I'm a true believer in "less is more".
Try to master the Ns7 with the possibilities it offers as we speak and you'll agree this machine is actually a diamond in the rough.

Commercially speaking (which after all is what business is all about), why make a 2 deck controller work in a half arsed way with 4 decks, when you can simply make an all new 4 deck unit that works really well?

Like video before it, I'm still sceptical of 4 decks. You think you've really mastered 2? I haven't even mastered 1 deck yet.

word

Would it be possible to use the NSFX controller as a means to toggle between decks? Heck maybe even use the faders on it.

Whats a Deck? :0)

What are you guys talking about?

I don't see where this guy said anything about asking if you thought it was a good idea...or if its something you think should be done...

In fact - what he said was



...how is this point escaping some of you? What he said was simple - and at first it was "can't be done" - and now its "shouldn't be done".

I don't think a lot of you remember the point of his thread - which is



He even thanked you for reading the thread...did you read the thread? You might want to. It appears this train jumped the track a bit.

Itch is built for one to one mapping? And you defend it like its the oath or code of itch users but they're going to have to let that rule leave if we're going get THE BRIDGE - as there is no one to one that any itch device announced or released will have with it. Other midi devices are going to be a need for itch if it wants to use the bridge - bringing us back to the 4 deck bit.

He ask - "why do you think they would hold back 4 deck support on itch?"

To which no one really replied to what was being asked. Here - I'll give an example.

"Maybe its because opening up 4 deck support for every itch controller would make the ones built for it look pretty silly"

actually if you scroll up you will see i answered that question you say no one answered
and THEBRIDGE does just that bridge 2 software together has nothing to do with breaking the 1 to 1 mapping of itch it is a separate entity that connects 2 softwares

The VCI-100 MK2 clip is a bit bogus as it's designed as a 4 deck mixer. Still not sure how you handle volume and EQ for 4 channels with just 2 sets of controls. It's a very long way from idea.

And backing up what Krall says - The Bridge is a separate product. Keystrokes are likely.

The biggest selling point of ITCH for me is the 1 to 1 hardware mapping. I despise touching my laptop for anything while DJing so being able to do it all from my DJ gear is a massive draw for me. So going back to the very original post:



Capabilities are not defined by software alone. As far as ITCH is concerned, they are defined by the hardware. If you want more channels, you'll have to buy them. That is how ITCH works and I hope it stays that way. You could however switch to Virtual DJ or Traktor to be able to tinker with the configs and get ITCH designed hardware to run with vanilla MIDI.

DJ Sergio B:

Thank you for actually reading and replying.

Exactly my point. All of you have just said that it wouldn't work, and then, as he has said above, that it SHOULDN'T be done after an example was provided.

---
In response to skratchworx:
"If you want more channels, you'll have to buy them. That is how ITCH works and I hope it stays that way."

The fanboyism here is puzzling to me. Are you serious? How about before we got loop roll functionality? Should only new controllers with dedicated buttons that say "loop roll" have been given that feature? There are additions/improvements to ITCH we might have previously been ambivalent about but now couldn't imagine being unique to a single controller. It's absolutely ridiculous how you all defend a company for making software that withholds features buy requiring hardware to unlock parts of software.
---

In response to Nik39, I agree it isn't ideal, but consider again loop roll as an example. Holding shift and then clicking buttons at the top end of the deck is a terrible mapping that requires TWO HANDS to use simple loop roll functionality. However, the feature is usable, and can still yield impressive results, AND I am very glad it was included even though the mapping isn't ideal.

In addition, to respond to Kmxorbit and skratchworx commenting on mastering the NS7 as it is, I'm not sure what to say about this. It's a 2 deck all-in-one midi controller with no effects, as simple as it gets. Did this take awhile for you to master? I feel like the NS7 quite easy to master, especially coming from vinyl (which is what it's designed to emulate.)

Anyway, only asking for responses, as DJ Sergio B pointed, about why you think they are withholding such features. NOT why you couldn't manage to use those features because it sounds too difficult or doesn't interest you.

Basically what I have arrived at, based on the responses of you that did read the thread is:

Unlocking capability in older controllers the new ones are designed for would make them look a bit redundant, and also prevent sales of new controllers.

So, to go back to my original point, I do still think that such tactics are a bit underhanded, because we can acknowledge this is definitely possible and widely done with 2 deck controllers.

Besides the cases of poor thread comprehension, thanks for your participation. I have been wanting to get some outside perspective on this.

It's about the perspective of any given DJ. IMO there is nothing out there made by the competition that would make me want to sell my Itch/V7 setup. I don't put a lot of emphasis on efx, sample banks and other must have features. My main priorities are build quality, turntable emulation and solid mixer to go along with stable, uber manageable software. I have enough confidence in my ability that I don't need to have those features to make me a killer DJ. More like icing on the cake but without it the cake still taste great. Again nothing currently touches the Itch and V7/NS7 for things I mentioned. So IMO no one has caught up to Itch and the V7/NS7.

plain and simple ITCH is ITCH traktor is traktor torq is torq --- if they were all the same there would be no point... ITCH is a solution for the dj that doesnt want to deal with the midi mapping and wants a quality controller... sure that opens on 'issues' that you miss out on but it is what it is.... not a fan boy just someone who purchased a product for what it is not in hopes of molding it to the other software that is out there... and yes i do own other software...

it is possible to do a lot with the software... but serato chooses to follow a set path. so you can talk about possibilities all you want amd show what other softwares are doing... but when all is said and done all the talk in the world will not change the features of ITCH

that being said there are new features on the horizon... what they are we do not know yet however ITCH has set a model that they seem to follow --- need effects you need a controller -- need for decks you need a controller -- notice the pattern? if you don't like it then at some point you need to decide what works for you... i personally am looking forward to the new controllers anounced and the future of itch software...

Fanboy? Of course not. i simply wish to preserve the total simplicity of ITCH - that plug and play ease of use, that idea of knowing that pressing a button or turning a control does exactly what its supposed to and and keep my attention on my DJ gear and not having to carry out keystrokes.

Up until a few years a go, if you wanted extra features, you'd have to pay for them, be it an extra deck, more channels or effects. I have zero expectation of anything I buy possibly doing more than what I bought it to do. When I buy camera gear, there is an outside chance that the firmware could be updated to do 60fps, or maybe might step up from 720 to 1080. But if I want that, I buy it from the start.

That's a bad comparison. We're talking about faders/knobs. You need to have quick access to those. Double mapping a single button is okay, IMHO.

im laughing because i solved all these "problems" a long time ago: controlling 4 decks with 2 sets of knobs.. video, sampler, etc.. LOL!

at the end of the day i would much rather see the software developers working on a new stable itch than trying to implement controls to fit around something that functions perfectly well as a 2 deck controller..

Regardless of features we don't hold the same interest for, I completely agree the next new release should prioritize stability.

Soundbiter I'm feeling you on this, I hear what you saying. Why not have an OPTION for four decks??? It also show's that they're not forgetting about the prior customers as soon as the next new machine comes out. I now its a business and they're trying to push the new products, but damn don't forget about the people who purchased the earlier equipment. That right there displays a company that really cares about there customers not saying that you don't but if there was any doubt that's one way to prove them wrong. Back to my original comment Soundbiter I feel you 100%.

Uh? ITCH 2.0 supports legacy ITCH hardware, too. BTW, multitrack operation on the NS7 is already possible via SP6.

Why would Serato and Numark pump already stretched resource into making something that does a brilliant job of 2 channels into a half arsed 4 channel unit? It lacks the necessary controls to make it work with any degree of success i.e. 2 whole channels. I;m not even sure if it's technically doable at all given the hardware architecture.

I get it and agree that some people would like to switch ITCH to a 2 channel display on an NS6, but if you want 4 channels, buy a 4 channel unit.

I agree on your statement here.
But for the V7 I have the feeling that 4 channel support should made be possible.

I honestly thought that the option was going to be included, yet something was also telling me that being Serato behind this I should get my hopes up. sorry but that's just the kind of reputation that Serato has with me. Im already considering heavily jumping ship all together. this system itch is pushing stopped being something I, willing to support as an artist. dont take it personal but im more than your top 40 DJ. good luck squeezing money out of those kind of DJ's, cuz this one is gon gon gone!

Explain...Why don't you?

I'm inclined to agree...

But I'm still able to dream about 4x V7's or NS7+2V7's :P

well since i own a v7 & now the ns7 i'm able to use them both on the same pc using numark cue 7

The "real" reason is because of Traktor S4. It has four channels. So Serato has to step up their market game.

I used to do that with a Stanton SCS3 and Numark NS7. It was easily feasible as the Stanton SCS3 has volume faders + a 3Band EQ (with kills) for each of it's own decks (and is technically a 4 Deck controller in and of itself - thus, it would've been holistically possible to do 6 decks if I was willing to sacrifice that kind of screen real-estate). My question is this: what are you using to control the volume faders for Decks 3 and 4 in VDJ 7 if you're using V7's?

4 deck control should be easy to do on the ns7 ,deck 1 and 2 would be as normal and if you wanted to load onto say deck 3 you hold the delete button down and press load on deck 1, then for deck 4 delete +l oad on 2, and for the volume control and bpm do the same with the delete button??

surely it wouldn't be that hard for serato to program that into itch??

just a thought

and have a strange time juggling between the volume levels with just 2 faders ....it is just not practicle

the day I'll see Serato implementing something like this is the day I switch to Traktor.

Cerla? Traktor?! If I didn't see the words next to his name, I'd never have even believed the remote possibility of it, lol.

But yeah, that's far to ridiculous and complicated, and I'd rather not have to deal with the faders (or EQ's for that matter). Not worth the hassle. Just my opinion.

Heres what the DJ's at the Los Angeles Scratch Academy had to say about the NS7.
Watchwww.youtube.com

Oops, wrong thread -__-

indeed, "the day I switch to traktor" means "never"

I remapped the start time knob as a volume fader & the stop time knob as deck select 3, since i dont own a dedicated mixer thats what i do for now. This is only experimental as I wont be doing this in a live environnement (at least not yet). Unless i had a monster pc or mac i could run it all 3 decks on 45rpm hi.

New product, new features. It's the name of the game. It's the same way with any product. You can't expect your old iphone to have the exact capability of the new iphone. That's the whole point of making a new product. Yes, with some modified programming the NS7 could theoretically control 4 decks. But being an IT manager, I know that people are never satisfied, even when they get what they want. I can just see the posts now..."4 decks on NS7 not working, help!", "Too hard to control, LIKE THE NEW SYNC!", and "COME ON SERATO!!! FIX THIS NOW!!"

It would be a complete shot in the foot to support and take criticism for trying to offer a feature that the product was not originally designed for. I have been down that road in product development and it NEVER works out right. You want new features, buy a new product. I knew damn well when I bought the NS7 that it was only a matter of time that a new unit would be released that could do more. The very next day, NS6 was announced. Ultimately, when I bought the NS7 my intention was to control 2 decks. Numarks intention was to sell me a controller that supported 2 decks. I bought it, the end.

^^ like ^^

What he said.