I'm going to try this tonight...I switched when I got my NS7. If the sound
And scratching is on par with itch which they claim has been
Improved I'm going back. This will be easier since my back up
System and laptop use VDJ , just one database to manage.
In my opinion Serato fell short with the 1.7 release. More features
Were/Are needed.

I mean at the least add a damn auto mix feature for dinner at formal
Events. Just pathetic...

Or maybe they don't want to target mobile djs...

run winamp or itunes in the background of itch... use that through our aux input and thats how itch is designed to handle a playlist... ha!

I actually use to disable midi in VDJ and run a wire from my Aux to
My pc soundcard and use VDJ as stand alone that way.

I do feel the same way.

The worst is that, for what I read in someplace, the crossfade & fade in/out between tracks options is already built in...but you can only get it if you're using the Denon controller.

How come the most expensive of all the controllers don't get that option ?

Awshit, it seems to have a bridge-like feature in it too... no mixtape correction, but you can run anything that can be ReWired as a channel. Inneresting.

Funnily, I find pathetic auto mix features. Humanity is diverse.

DJ Cerla auto mix feature is not to replace djs it's to help mobile
Guys during dinner or when needed to take a break for whatever
Reason: washroom, going to car ,fixing something

I guess super djs like u don't need to ever go to the washroom....

I certainly don't go to the washroom while performing.

ITCH is a high-performance tool, like a Ferrari or a Pagani in the automobile sector. At each one his own tool... I feel good with the sportcar, others may find a crossover fits their needs much better.

Automix is a Joke I'll use winamp instead

I use ITCH's "continuous" mode all the time for this situation. What's wrong with it?

-KLH

This is no GUI: www.skratchworx.com

This is a nightmare.

i find it funny that people complain that they cannot go to the bathroom while djing is a draw back for serato.... how long are you people djing that you cant go before you start and the not have to go till you are done. and on top of that how long do you plan on being in the rest room....

a pre made mix, running shoes so you can get back withing 5 mins or decently placed first cue points will solve that issue quick

but seriously i just tried virtual dj7 (yes i own a lisence) and have to still say 'yawn' and the audio sounds like crap through my vci-300 hissing and pops

Or do like Sven Vath: make a 1 bar loop and keep it 10 minutes long (he used to do it with stickers on vinyl, much easier in ITCH :)

hmm i trust kraal's judgement so very dissapointing hehe, i thought vdj 7 will be a game changer, guess we still wait for serato to bring the long awaited features.

i was thinking the same.... seems like they are covering too many bases... still not good for scratch dj's so serato still ahead

i been using VD7 for video ( bootcamp windows 7) and it works great....i like the four decks deal, loops are good to mix a 3rd track.I will keep testing the video part of it couse I have no choice ..

@ Kraal: Try

Try dead silence in between tracks?

As much as you guys hate on VDJ it does have its benefits. I admit, the sound in Serato is better, but VDJ's new track addition methods beat itch. Its such a pain to add new songs to the library in itch. As well, If i add a folder as a crate and i have sub folders within that parent folder, i cannot see those sub folders. They are just bundled all together. Its pretty lame.

VDJ's team is way more innovate then Serato. They have balls to add good innovative features. I mean controlling from an ipad/iphone?? Recording live from a mic or aux input? All the plug ins? Video? Karaoke? Sampler? Its endless.

You think Serato will add 4 deck ability to the NS7 or VCI ??? HAHAHA fuck no. Why would they? They make money on hardware. Their going to wait until a 4 deck comes out other than the crappy DX and add support for it. Why would they give you 4 deck ability on older decks??? Come on now... Similar to video fucntionality. You think their going to pre map the NSFX like VDJ to allow you to toggle between, video, sampler and effects??? nooooooooooooo way. Why would they?? Why do you think its taking so long? As a business decision is being made as to how to let us all down. VSL has been out for 2 years or so. Why would it take so long to implement in itch?? As hardware drives itch, not the software itself. If we have a 2 deck midi controller, with no extra buttons, how can we make more money to add effects, video? I know how, lets talk to numar or who ever to design a CTRL with these functions built in. Unlike SSL we cannot control the manufactures as any hardware will work. Its BS man.

Its like Audi have quattro in the A6 but taking 2 years to add it into the A4. How does that make sense. They have the technology they just dont want to do it, as its all about fuckin the end user.

Its smart what they do, but its a bitch, as they dont give you any options.

VDJ on the other hand, have so many variables therefore are reconized as they support whatever they can. Eventually they will get it right, and Serato will fall short. Serato is like RIM. They dont think the competition will catch up so fast...just wait...it will.

personally i have no silence in continous mode and if it is it is a fraction of a second.... i can use itunes if need be...... you talk as if i dont own virtual dj ... i do all the inovatiopn added features mean nothing to me since i cannot get it to play a full set with out play button not working..... so to each his own on that but running around saying serato will fall short i am not sure... serato is professional ITCH is still young.... both softwares have its place.... but i am just stating with the release of VD& there is nothing making me want to jump to VDJ and ditch itch that is all i am saying.... the automix just seems to be the begest complait and if people would actually realize there are work arounds i have been trying to point out instead of throwing a fit. but like it is people will always yell the grass is greener. I am personally on the ITCH forum cause i like use and make money off ITCH. nuff said

Dj fluke let us just face reality vdj is not for prime time, it for beginners who can get it free all over the Internet. There's nothing about vdj that say, professional.

I dunno about most of you, but I have DJd for 5-6 hours without even stepping away from my equipment, its not that hard. Go use the potty before you start, what do you guys have, the bladders of a two year old. My two year old can hold her pee for at least 2 hours. No diapers unless its bedtime.

i agree --- i don't like leaving to 'booth' i mean thats why i am there isnt it?

Dont come tell me the software dosent work man, bc it does. I used it for 3 years straight using numark ICDX and it ran flawlessly. I own a VCI 300, 2 NS7's, Denon 1200, 2 X Total Controls and still got the ICDX's and all run in VDJ fine. I mainly use the itch controllers in itch, but they work in VDJ. What you are saying is BS bro. Either the issue is your PC/user or you just simply never spent time to figure out what the issue is. As much as your opinion about VDJ not making want you to change, thats fine but dont run your mouth like its some high school kids that programmed it, as it works man...

Its not the automix, did you even read what i wrote about 4 decks? Videos? As young as the software is, the manufacturer is not. They are and claim to be a pioneer in the business.

So you telling me if a car manufactuer creates a new model and dont add features from existing models like 4 wheel drive or hybrid its ok?? bc that new model is still "young"??? wtf. what kind of analogy do u work around?

with a nick name like that..i dont think ur ready for prime time...

wadup yo!

lol

Just to add, I am a mobile DJ and even with dinner I don't step away. I use itunes for dinner music, I have a pre-made playlist that I have on shufle, but I always change the order of it, uncheck the songs that have been played already and uncheck songs that I don't think are appropriate for the crowd I am djing for that night.

I never know what the crowd is gonna be composed of exactly, so I have the dinner playlist that has about 100 songs, more than what I need for dinner with all sorts of slow love songs, I do mostly wedidngs.

Wouldnt it be easier if Itch had that?

Actuallly your name is pretty bad compare to mines ,might as well change it to dj fake..lol

yes...having a slang nick name is very proffesional and ready for "prime time".

Anyway...

Wadup yo!!!

yoyo wadup

LOL

Not necessarily, itunes does a great job of managing playlists and as kraal said once, the genius feature is awesome. That is not a quote, just something I remember him writing once.

but if your willing to use itunes for this purpose why not use VDJ if you have a liscence like i do?

Im sure the play lsits functionality of it are far more advanced then i tunes. A lot more control over what i want meaning.

On the other hand i never used i tunes and probably wont bc i use VDJ for standalone behind itch.

Dj Fake, do you use vdj at ur gigs?

OK, I guess it's just preference. I do not have VDJ as I tried it (Yo Gabba Gabba) and did not like it.

yawn!!! If vdj actually never crapped out on every gig I had I would of neve ditched it for itch. If vdj is working so great for you then I don't understand the need to be on itch forums complaining. I own vdj and it failed me. So I no longer. Hang around there forums
Btw fluke the only reason I commented on the automix is because you specifically pointed out " try this"

VDJ still sucks with the NS7 up until 6.1, just sounds horrible compared with ITCH. i do however rock video mixing on a separate laptop with an m-audio xponent when i need to, no doubt for anyone that doesnt own SSL with Video SL VDJ is the second best thing out there.

Anyway, the automix feature that is feared by some of us, is a feature I would like to see in Itch.
I do understand DjFluke's remark about that.
I played several years in several big Dancepubs where the toilet was at the other side, and were I had to play for 8 to 10 straight hours in a row... (tricky business to get to the toilet when it was crowded, and then hope not all toilets were taken). Always had to use premixed CD's for that but they did not always fit into the atmosphere at that moment. and then the magic is disturbed or even gone...An automix feature would not be bad for that kind of situations.

Now on events, when being mobile, when background music is needed, I also use iTunes with automatic fade in/out. I don't feel comfortable with iTunes and Itch running at the same time.
(remember AAC bug, and database problems, or system resources that are taken)
Another disadvantage is that when you use a backup laptop, you have to manually type over the (background music) playlist from iTunes to your other machine (I did not find a way to copy that automatically). That would not be necessary when it was built in inside itch.
That's why an automix feature would fit my needs. just my 2 cents.

i guess my point is this... if itch had automix i would probably never use it... which leads to why when i hear these ITCH is crap cause it doesnt have automix i always chime in with work arounds......

i guess i dont see it that THAT important.... there are other things vdj has that are more worth looking at

Performance and stability wise VDJ sucks.
I'm just referring to a feature that I would welcome in certain situations, but it's not a deal breaker...

So, stop being fucked and leave this forum. Pointless, destructive rants and astroturfing are not welcome here.

Looks like sjite. Not impressed at all.
More important is how stable and solid is this app.

I think this thread became a pointless rant as most thread recently have become(this forum is actually starting to bore me, same RANT's over and over)........in any case I tested VDJ7 with my VCI-300 last night and it works quite good with 4 decks, the main issues is there is still lag on the jog's and sound quality is not as clean, when comparing to ITCH. I used VDJ for many years before getting ITCH, and I personally prefer the plug and play nature and simplicity of ITCH. I think ITCH's development cycle seems to be slow and the core features that some of the ITCH users are looking for like Video, Sampler, multiple decks (on a 2 deck controller) and I would also say the mediocre file management, leave software like VDJ at an advantage. However the sound quality and the stability of ITCH are its stronger points. Once ITCH's feature development cycle speeds up and becomes mature I think there will be a lot less discussions, it unfortunately really does seem like forever for Serato to incorporate new features.

What I noticed with VDJ when I used it more is I spent more time tweaking, tinkering, testing than actually playing......it became basically became counter productive, I much prefer the simplicity of ITCH, however I don't think VDJ is garbage, it works well once your computer is setup correctly, I personally never really had a crash with it, I really think people should stop dogging it especially if the assessment is not on the later versions. As well there is a lot of initial assessment based on how it looks at first glance, but remember you can skin it to your liking.

I've had flawless operation of VDJ since May 2007. Never had one crash or one hick-up.
I do admit that it takes a little more setup time and tweaking to get right, but once it's done it's rock-solid.
That said, I still think SSL and Itch has better time code implementation, so for a turntablist Serato would be the choice. (I can't really speak for Traktor Scratch or MixVibes since my experience with these systems are limited)
I own VDJ, SSL and Itch (NS7) and use all three systems were I need them.
I mostly use VDJ(or virtual vinyl actually) for video gigs and the Serato systems for audio only gigs in a club setting. For events which is not that performance focused I stick with VDJ, because of ease of use.
I don't think there is a need to hate on one software just because you use the competitor.
That is why I'm also considering getting the Traktor S4 unit, just to see what advantages that system could give me.

Btw, my thoughts were not specifically directed at you Kraal, I just used your quote to make a point about stability.

^ yah what he said......but at the end I still prefer ITCH. I really don't use most of the frills VDJ has, I only miss the file management, video, sampler.......well and now 4 deck support....mostly everything else I couldn't care less.

actually I shouldn't assume....should have read ^ yah what he\she said...

he
LOL

that right is it..... if something works for you use it.... i usually just chime in with the fact that since 6.0 i can't get VDJ to work ... my issue for sure and if i really cared i would be talking to VDJ right now. just when it leads to ITCH is crap cause VDJ can do this I tend to defend ITCH cause of what it can do..... back to the simple fact that there are constructive ways to address this

Agreed

ok but now here is my take on vdj7
it's doesnt work for me doesnt scratch with the vci-300

however
what about the vci-100 mk2??? that may bring the vdj7 close to vci-300 performance????

agreed kraal thats the noticeable difference when using the VCI-300, but it is ALOT better with VD7, I would say its now usable actually i comparison with 6, but with ITCH the scratching is right on, you don't sense any delay.

Are you guys using Bootcamp? couse the mac version sux, on windows it works fine.

that is same here mac version doesnt work well

Yes the windows version is much more stable than the OSX version, it actually does pretty well with 4 decks and the VCI-300. I look forward to ITCH going 4 deck (hopefully it does) 2 deck's almost feels boring to play on now. Even when I was playing vinyl I was using 3

4 decks solve lots of mixing problems for me...im using VDJ for video right now..havnt test it at a gig yet.

Only thing I use VDJ for are my Karaoke shows. And that may be changing soon...

dames, my buddy swears by vdj for his karaoke... i use winamp...

Watchwww.youtube.com

Pretty cool vid using VDJ by DJ Dab. He's had some pretty neat set-ups.

dab is the homie! just talked to him, actually. he has a crazy set up now with 3 ipads and wifi control. he can mix videos sitting at the bar. shit is ILL.

he uses VDJ and traktor at the same time - at least he was the last time I saw him. he has been building crazy mad-scientist shit for YEARS... he made something similar to a VCI/NS7 all from scratch probably 4 years ago and was the first person I ever saw doing shit like that.

yeah I remember on DJTT he posted up his faderfox with two XP10 i think with homemade vinyls that was pretty pimp.

Technology is mutha!

This honestly impresses me, the scratching seems pretty on point for a touch screen....not sure how good it would do in a club though with heat\moisture, sick none the less

its amazing to me that my 700 dollars hp works a hundred percent with my v7,s and virtual dj, wow this seems like the opposite to me i think, vdj is catering more to the windows operating system playing on 1 ms latency with no problems. cant seem to be that lucky on my mbp mid 2010 model.

I'm pretty impressed too I must say... This guy is defenitely a pioneer in taking the digital dj'ing to a further stage...

i'm not sure if i'll like touchscreen scratching, Hell, I can't even scratch properly on my V7's... ;-)

humm i own vd7 runs like a charm on 4 decks with my vci 300 best of all....is that vdj is totally free and i mean totally not like serato itch where yes the software upgrade is free but for every major upgrade it requires us to spend $250-$400 usd on hardwares or other softwares its pathetic....i wonder what serato will make us buy when they get video on its.....a flatscreen tv or a projector? for now thumbs up for vdj i run problem free on vdj7 4 decks and video mixing all night long!!!

Totally free like $329 www.virtualdj.com



how much did you spend on the Beatgrids upgrade for ITCH?

DJCERLA : Why do you get so offended with some one dosent think Itch is superior? ya its a good software, very stable sure, but quit the dick riding. No shit the software is not free, but once you buy it, what he was trying to say you dont need to pay for the additional features.

If you want to make us feel "lucky" that we didnt pay for beat grids, then buddy your a fool. Thats a fundamental feature in any DVS software, DUH and it should be free. Kinda like a car when it comes with tires...

Basically the point here, i know Itch never promised all these new things etc, and its cool to get them, BUT since the direction of this game is changing, the scary part is how wi,l itch adapt? Is adding new hardware for every upgrade fair, no? But is it going to happen of course.

The right decision could be to be like the VDJ team very clever and make the NSFX a multi purpose controller, for video, effects and sampler. Serato will never do the same as they would lose money i agree, but dick riding when some one says oh Itch is not as good here as this, cool off man. You sound like a desperate army dude looking for dick. Quit it man.

Your a good DJ, props to you, quit acting like you gave birth to Serato. This is a forum where people will compare things depsite them sitll wanting to use Serato. We are just talking and comparing.

If you cannot take the critique, your in the wrong business.

Are you high? What critique?

The guy stated that VDJ is totally free, and it's a false statement. Also, I highlighted the fact that not all ITCH major improvements come to a cost.

I was not "offended" at all!

I'm curious... are you running Mac or PC? I couldn't get VDJ 6.2 or whatever to work right with my VCI on Mac. Wondering if VDJ 7 on Mac works, or if I would have to use my other PC laptop to do it...

Every once in a great while, something comes up where I wish I could use my VCI for a video set - if I can get VDJ to work right until Itch drops video, it would be rad.

djcerla, someone wrote:

while others wrote



all in a single, offensive post.

A wise man once said:



and

Oh, and if I am allowed to say something:

DJFluke, I agree with everything except for the good dj and the name calling. Latter was not necessary and just makes your good arguments look weak.

Damned it, hit "post" to soon (where's the edit button?) :

Oh, and if I am allowed to say something:

DJFluke, I agree with everything except for the name calling. That was not necessary and just makes your good arguments look weak.

you guys should just calm down a little... also... this has nothing to do with virtual dj lol.

Thanks guys, on the props on my digital rig. I'll keep on trying to push things forward.

A couple new clips...
Watchwww.youtube.com
Watchwww.youtube.com

So what are you running vdj off of? Are the ipads only controllers?

Heres the deal guys, and these are the facts. The only reason Serato is promoted by stores is because they make money on the product. They cant make a dime on Virtual DJ because the consumer purchases the product key on the internet and the fancy DJ shops are out of the loop. Serato is so far behind the features in VDJ its ridiculous. Plus VDJ is so much more reliable its comical. With VDJ, you have a Lap Top, your music and your controller - and you're done. No control CD's, no sloppy wires all over the place, no sitting there analyzing files, no box to worry about (unless you wanna buy an overrated mixer for thousands) Searching for tracks is much faster (you don't have to keep clicking the "all" button when you wish to search your hard drive. Video on VDJ blows away Serato. The Automix feature is killer on a mobile gigs for the first hour or for dinner on VDJ as well. There are so many more advantages with VDJ over Serato - its scary. To the guys that say the sound quality on VDJ isn't as good as Serato? What? I hooked up Serato on one system & VDJ on the other side by side - the sound quality is not compromised at all. We are doing clubs and Mobile gigs guys, not producing music in a studio. You guys are wasting THOUSANDS on Serato and Pioneers....WAKE UP! Pioneers don't even have a pitch bend feature - they are bulky and over priced. Do the research - you will thank me...........

Rob -- i own both and have not even opened vdj in almost a year... so what you saying is a valid opinion but just that an opinion.
i mean clicking an all button is not THAT big of a deal :)

Totally disagree.. i own both myself and as i feel there are some pros and cons to both i feel that serato and itch are better suited for the performing dj for night clubs. If your just gonna play at any house gig then yes i feel you could get away with either. When it comes to performing in front of a crowd, i mean performing scratching,mixing,effects,drops, mic talking etc... then i feel its not really close. i dont consider hitting automix is performing.. If were gonna start making arguements for what is viable to use at a wedding or at some backyard birthday party then this debate is pointless.. I can go do a wedding with the numark total control and make the same $800 someone else can with serato or vdj 7. But it sounds like we are wanting to debate what is best for performing at a club... where one or two bad performances means your not asked to come back, and your actual dj skills matter. Serato has the core of its fundamentals above everyone, although almost every company i will admit has 1 or 2 better features, i feel the core of serato is superior, and i feel that as a professional and musician i want to put my love for what i do with the strongest core and work out, this also allows me to be creative on my own as they add to thier core... I hear people complain about not having all the options given to them, it has been my experience that a dj who shows the lack of desire or lack of ability to be creative in problem solving often shows that same lack in his creative ability in his craft. If you dont have something then do something about it, dont complain. Having said that i feel it is a totally ignorant statment to assume serato sells more or is more popular in stores because you have to pay for it at the store and not download it online. Serato is in store because people will pay for it.

sounds like you dont understand how supply and demand works. Stores dont keep promoting serato because it has the ability to make them money, they continue to promote it because it is making them money. People are buying it because it is working. You would be a fool to think that if numark thought they could make more money by selling there product at store they wouldnt do it. Popularity of in the store advertising may persuade the entry level buyer or bedroom dj, but a guy who has a long standing gig at a big night club is not buying his software based on the fact guitar center had a pretty poster of some crappy software..

Besides there are more vdj based controllers at guitar center than serato boxes

for sure. It sounded to me like in the above post that rob64 was making a claim that the only reason serato is more popular than vdj is because not as many people get to see in store or by mail advertising advertising for virtual dj because it is bought online. And i agree with kraal, it seems like they have more money in a wider variety of controller that would be used for their product than serato. So like i said a nebie or bedroom dj walking into guitar center for the first time seeing all the numark controllers will probably be inclined to go that route because of the variety, thus actually totally contradicting rob64, and exposing more people on average to vdj, yet on the club level serato still is king. So to sum this up.. i think it is safe to say that as a whole more people are probably exposed to virtual dj than serato because of availability and initial start up cost of controller. Yet againg at the club level serato is far more used..

VDJ is good for home use, and for professional DJ's with a (blue screen of) death wish.

i wish I could use virtual dj for video....but it wont work for me on a mac nor windows under bootcamp, I gave up the embarrassment of my screen frizzing while im looking for a song.Some times too many features is a curse.I rather just mix my and nothing else than worrying about if my setup is gonna work.Plus my good music selection is what people really want....and lighting( i'm a light junky) I wish i had more money for bad ass moving heads lol.

Question... I've noticed most controllers these days are coming bundled with VDJ why is this.... I've never personally played with it but it is making me a little bit interested...

Many controllers are bundled with Traktor LE also.

If you're getting a BSOD then it's unlikely to be a software issue I'm afraid ;)

because VDJ is one of the simplest software to learn you can do a decent mix without knowing and 'dj skills' if you want

You're right, but I liked the joke... ^^

Anyway, my VDJ experience was not a pleasant one. Random shut down during performance without any warning?... c'mon! Never again.

exactly Vdj is like being in a flight simulator, serato and itch are like flying the actual plane...

Because Itch has no DJ software aids at all ;) Believe it or not some of us VDJ users don't use automix or sync - and some of us use TCV. One interesting thing that is overlooked is that if you want to you can disabled *every* aid on VDJ - even the visual aids such as waveforms and BPMs.

Personally I believe it's down to the DJ rather than the software. Yes, features such as automix can allow people to 'DJ' more easily - but have you ever actually heard it?! I'd be ashamed to be in front of a mix like it often produces. It's really only suitable for background music applications IMHO.

Anyone can pick a list of tunes and mix them together in an acceptable-ish fashion with very little practice. The real skill comes in the crowd reading, planning and being creative. Automix has no concept of quick mixing, phrasing, key, looping, sampling or mashing it up with more than 2 tracks for example.

right also not my comment about it being simple was not an insult like somee may read it it's a viable solution for a nonskilled beginner

Agreed. I never use Automix. I'd rather grab one of my pre-made mixes (typically between half-an-hour, one hour, and 80 minutes long, depending on the mix) and play that for the first hour if need-be. But I'd never use Automix. It sounds terrible. It has it's usage, for example, say you have premade mixes and were running an online radio show. Obviously you cannot be there 24 hours a day. Using automix to set up a proper playlist may have its benefits.

Also, with regards to the earlier knocks on VDJ for stability, as someone who uses VDJ for 4-Deck control with my NS7 as Deck's 1&2 and an SCS3 as Decks 3&4 and who uses VDJ for doing events in tiny booths (where the NS7 does not fit - during which I use an M-AUDIO Fast Track Pro for an audio interface), I've never had stability issues. Ever. Not one crash, not one drop out, not one instance of skipping/scratching (Itch 1.7.1 users should know what I'm talking about - and something I seem to have resolved with a massive env_vars change), and no magical/unexplained CPU spikes. This is not an attack on ITCH, this is a point that I find little basis in the typical VDJ attacks here.

I can never help but take issue with these VDJ threads. Perhaps we should all just commit to not mentioning VDJ on this forum because it seems to draw all kinds from out of the wood-work who start hurling insults at each other, calling each other "microwave dj's", "dick [riders]", "idiot", "fool", and my personal favorite: "You sound like a desperate army dude looking for dick". I mean, seriously? This is what we've come to? I mean, screw the actual comparing and contrasting of the advantages disadvantages of VDJ vs ITCH, let's have a small few come in and derail an entire train.

I remember someone once said in another thread (I think it was kraal), "Contrary to popular belief, a lot of people here use both ITCH and VDJ". I'll honestly be shocked if I see more than ten persons including myself and SBDJ who will admit it without fear of ridicule.



No offense to you Kmxorbit, but sarcasm is not something easily detectable on a forum without specific backing context. So, while I know this is a joke, someone else might not take it for such without clarification as was exemplified by SBDJ's response.




Admittedly, I take extreme issue with the default GUI of VDJ. I also must wonder why they still have yet to produce a decent modular skinning engine that does not require me to personally "stretch" my skins through a separate program or deal with VDJ's built in "Quality / Fast" skin resizer. This is something that Traktor (which I personally do not like, but that's another discussion for another topic) and Serato offerings have had down for years. Though it has improved: VDJ 5 was a nightmare when it came to skin stretching.

I think the stereotypes associated with Virtual DJ are honestly Atomix's own fault, though I'm honestly not sure why the same criticism is not applied to Traktor - or, dare I say it, Deckadance - and I'll explain that in a moment. I'm sure we all remember that video someone posted about a month or so back with the talking bears - one of which was a professional DJ, and one of which was someone who'd just convinced their parents to buy them pretty much the entire toolset (Mixer, Turntables, SL box, etc.) and with no skill or training whatsoever, called themselves a DJ. I think the similarities drawn to VDJ has been it's piracy control - or lack thereof. As we all know, piracy of Serato Scratch Live is pretty much non-existant. You can download the free-program all you want. Without the Serato Box which functions as a usb dongle in addition to an audio interface, it's pretty much useless. The same applies to ITCH: the devices with which it has been certified essentially also function as usb dongles, without which, ITCH does not function as a DJ'ing software. With Virtual DJ, however, one merely has to type "Virtual DJ Pro download' in Google and quite literally, millions of results are returned, many of which offer links to cracked versions. The difference is, however, that with Virtual DJ, there are essentially no functionality checks.



Unfortunately, here is where kraal is more than correct: he's spot on accurate. When it comes down to it, VDJ is extremely simple to use. You might not have a clue as to what things like keylock is, what a controller is, how to setup audio interfaces, or how to configure the program, but you can download a "free" cracked copy, drop in two tracks, and call yourself a DJ with absolutely no idea what you're doing. You might even see the automix function and think it's the greatest thing in the world. The end result more-likely-than-not, sounds absolutely horrendous.



In what I can only assume is an attempt to avoid this image and combat the rampant criticisms of its program by providing a stripped-down free version (No midi-control / audio setup), Atomix is honestly to-little-to-late, and the lack of piracy control still plagues it. I can still just as easily search for "Virtual DJ Pro 7" and turn out thousands of download links for the newest version. That said, why would someone download a stripped-down free version when they can "freely" grab a full working version, regardless of whether or not they have a clue as to what they are doing? That said, wadup's statement above is not necessarily false.

This should provide rationale as to why I wonder why the same level of criticism is not leveled at Traktor or Deckadance - both of which are by no means plug and play programs which require significant audio configuration as well as some level of midi-configuration if a midi-controller is in use (more a point at Traktor. Deckadance's control is rather limited, to practically nil). Yet, a common argument I see for VDJ criticism is a lack of understanding of setting up the audio. If I didn't know better, I'd say some people were scapegoating / picking their spots.

Traktor is known for decimating musical libraries, or making them unusable in other programs - largely due to its habits of tag-writing ID3 v2.4 tags which are largely unsupported by most media players. Virtual DJ does not do this, nor does any other software I know of off the top of my head. But you'd be hard pressed to readily find this criticism being regularly mentioned.

I can, as with Virtual DJ, easily find a copy of Traktor Scratch Pro available on the internet for "free". The same with Deckadance. I think the only difference here between these three is that Traktor Scratch Pro and Deckadance are not as well known as Virtual DJ. That said, Virtual DJ seems to suffer spotlight-criticism - that being that since it is the most well known of these programs, the largest amount of criticism falls upon it.

I know this was long, but I felt it needed to be said, especially after watching this topic for sometime. If I was wrong, please inform me. I take all CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

Not wrong at all except on thing. My issues on vdj are based on playback just stops working. Even pressing the space bar. That is the "stability" issue I refer to.

But a lot of people just like throwing out the insults to vdj users. But dmc champ Dj craze recently put out the best statement on twitter " yes I use the sync button but do you want to challenge my skills"

The development team are most definitely aware of the issues surrounding skin resizing. I'm hoping they address this; I always use my own skins designed just for me so it's a non-issue, but this isn't an option for most. A vector based skin engine would be widely appreciated I reckon.



It's a difficult one to do though. Without being tied to a specific device it's hard to protect against piracy. Look how much effort Microsoft expend on this. Another problem is obviously credit card fraud, chargebacks and the like.

VDJ is an open system, so locking to specific hardware isn't an option. This then leaves hardware keys and activation. Both systems can be bypassed though and at that point they end up being more of a pain to legitimate users. I know plenty of PCDJ VJ users who were extremely annoyed by their softwrap protection for example.

No prob mate, I'm not easily offended myself and be confident I never have the intention to offend someone...

On topic:
I installed VDJ 7.02 today (my pro license of VDJ 5 still seemed to be valid) and tried to map a Korg Nano kontrol...

I have to admmit, it was fun, not so easy as many people state, but once you get the hang of it , it is fun....

But!
After a few times i needed to reprogram certain functions on the controller, after a certain restart of VDJ it did not recognize the nanocontrol anymore... And I didn't find out in 2 hours why.... It is still not working, and believe me I'm not a newbe when it comes to programming...
Can you imagine how you would freak out when this occurs just before a gig?
That's again a big reason why i will trust this program on a professional basis.

So yes, VDJ is fun for home use, but that's it. Nothing less, nothing more...

I mean "i will never trust this program"

...in your opinion. You really should be adding that - you are stating an opinion and not a fact. Big difference and way too easy to misinterpret.

Those of us using VDJ in a professional capacity (as plenty of people do) night in night out would appear to disagree with you. If it wasn't rock solid for me, I wouldn't use it. I also personally know a lot of professional working DJs who use it too. This means it's not just for home users I guess ;)

I've never had any problems with the detection of any of my MIDI controllers and I use at least one USB and one FW at every gig. Is it possible that this is something system or device related instead? I know your instinct is to blame the software and shrug it off at that but you'd be suprised how often even experienced users overlook something. You might consider yourself no newbie, but it's always worth asking for help if you're having problems. I know there are loads of people who use the nanocontrol without issue. If you can't get it detected in VDJ then there are plenty of things you can do to diagnose why - but rather than clutter Serato's forums it would be worth starting a thread asking for help on the VDJ forum.

A lot of issues people encounter are computer related. No one takes the time to understand what is needed to avoid crashes. Its very easy to just assume its going to work but it dosent. Differnet Pc's need different configurations. Similar to humans, some humans react differently when eating certain foods, therefore need to adapt to avoid. I would guarantee if u used vdj as a stand alone player just for playing music like windows media player it would NEVER crash. Whern you start adding hardware, it does get more complex but its issues with how your specific computer interacts with that hardware which is being controlled by that software and nothing else but that.

I used VDJ for a solid 3 years, never really had issues. I only moved to itch bc of my ns7. I still use VDJ in the back ground as a stand alone mp3 player for dinner music and itch as the primary player.

Anyway, VDJ works very well. I used it with ICDX's, total control, ns7 and a vci 300 on 2 different DELL laptops, and after i ironed out all the issues, it hasent crashed in 2 years. Prior to that it crashed due to my inability of not understanding what needs to be disabled when using it and just assuming (key word assuming) it would work and though my computer was a super computer and i always blamed the software.

Do you mean Traktor Pro or Traktor *Scratch* Pro? Latter is the one with external vinyl control which only works with the Traktor Scratch certified hardware such as the A8 sound card.

Both, though I honestly never saw much of a point in someone pirating a copy of Traktor Scratch Pro or Duo since they need that interface.

That's what I meant :)

Nice, it didn't let you down.
But closing down without warning in front of an audience, and now not recognizing the controller any more without any logical explanation are pretty real facts to me.

Interesting to see that every VDJ is happy with it "after they ironed out all issues". I read it everywhere.
In itch there is nothing to iron out. It just works.
Huge difference and that's also a fact.

Yes, but they might not be indicative of a problem with the software, that is my point. In a lot of the cases peoples issues are actually problems with peoples systems. People think because they have the latest and most powerful system it will just work and it's not always the case. Under windows for example, a bad driver can completely trash your DPC latency and when that happens it's audio dropout city, regardless of your CPU power.

Just closing down should never happen, I completely agree. VDJ had a problem with it's infamous search crash whereby that would happen to a relatively small group of users. I never experienced it myself, but that particular issue was resolved in v6.0.3 (November 2009).

The number of crash reports I see on the forum today, compared to say 2 years ago is a big difference. I wouldn't have thought software advancing and maturing would be a problem myself. Traktor has had a very rocky past too, yet people seem happy to overlook that.



Not everyone is happy, believe me. They never will be. Some people don't appreciate the fact that when you buy an open, flexible system that some configuration and knowledge may be required at times. Especially if you wish to customise.



Really? Itch has no problems whatsoever? So if I go to the various product support forums I won't find anything for sound dropouts, hardware not being recognised, crashes and so on? I found threads about all three on the first page I looked at. That's not a hate on Itch - I've said before that I actually like Itch.

Conversely there's nothing in VDJ that I need ironing out at this time. It just works for me too. I do have some feature requests, and I'm capable of accepting that my chosen software is less than perfect though...

Hey SBDJ, don't get me wrong.
I had/have fun with VDJ, and some features are really cool and innovative. (which is nice for the competition, by the way)

If you choose this app and it fits your needs, and it helps you you to create the music, mixes and the right atmosphere, then I'm happy for you and I do respect you.
I'm not blind to see that certain features are really worked out in a very strong and solid way as well.

And I'm definitely not trying you to convince you of the contrary.

Personally I choose Itch. It makes my spinning time always being fun without the worries.

No worries :)

I've said it like 100 times, but yes, use what works for you. I always keep on top of new systems and releases in case I come across something better than I'm using now!

Sometimes I've even been tempted to write my own...

SBDJ can we be friends?

my new screen name will be. "myBSDUYBBDorGSDUC"

yea i know looooonngggg SN i got my reason though

wtf?

Theres rumor of a release for the new Itch 2 something software, hopefully that will fix A LOT of problems with Itch that are in the 'problems with itch software' forums ... I have 2 V7s running on Itch and vs Virtual DJ, Itch is so unstable and blue screens my machine when using it, there have been forum fixes on going back to version 1.5 etc ... Im waiting for the new relase for itch whenever that is and if they don't fix the Itch problems (see forums) then im dropping it altogether and continue with vdj ....

Nice discussion this one...

oh, I do like the scratching sounds on Itch though, much clearer and crisp, I do wish Vdj 7, has a color scheme instead of just the red or blue colors ...

Sound more like a technical problem with your laptop, then it is a problem with Itch, if you ask me.
In the past when I had Blue screens, I checked on IRQ conflicts. Most of the time the solution was to be found there... (But it has been a while now (several years actually) that I had Blue Screens, so don't ask me what to do now :-SSS)

Itch SUCKSSSSSSSS!!!!!! we still on 1.7 and no improvements yet.. Virtual dj is light years ahead of you sorry programmers. ya'll need to step up ya'll game or hang up your name!!!!!!!!

Was just looking at the VDJ7 features page and noticed something hilarious..
www.virtualdj.com

From the "NEW AUDIO ENGINE" section:
"While the new Pure Scratch mode will give you a high-fidelity scratch emulation, sounding more real than the real thing."

Wowza better than the real thing.. HOLY CRAP!
:P

yeah they freeze it so there fore it is actually fresher than fresh... it's the new marketing lingo

Haha :)

HIHIHI! Now that is a serious Statement! ^^

whoa when they get a decent map for the v7s i think i might test it out...
I really hope serato dont get left behind with all these updates from other dj softwares...come on serato !!!!!! chop chop

I honestly don't think I have EVER seen anyone using VDJ at a club personally. My friend who works at a club in SF said they had someone using it last year and it crashed throughout the night. That pretty much explains their no vdj at the club rule....haha.

vdj 7 is compatible no mapping needed.. the older version are old. and dont work

you must not go to many clubs unless you are djing. I see all programs working in clubs.. dont get me wrong there nothing touching scratch live. Itch needs a fire lit under it to get things cooking... Step up your game or hang up your name..

No I'm out a lot and keep tabs on the scene in my area. No one messing with VDJ and getting a real club gig. The only things that is popping up more is Traktor.

Several years ago, I started with Numark Cue because all the hardware I had prior (CD players) were Numark. So it was the Numark name that pulled me to Cue. Later I found out Cue was just the Retail distribution of Virtual DJ. VDJ was internet only. The only real difference is VDJ releases updates immediately and Cue users have to wait until Numark signs off on the update. As time went on, it became quite obvious that the deal between Cue and VDJ was on shakey ground. When VDJ 6.0 was released Cue users had to wait what seemed like a couple of months to find out if they were going to be grandfathered into the upgrade or not. I got tired of waiting and bought a $50 VDJ cross license. However because of the time it took for Numark or Atomix to announce any conclusion, may speculated this was the end of the Numark distribution of Cue. This is probably why you dont see Numark Cue 6.0 or 7.0 hitting the retail shelves. Maybe that is because there are STILL Cue 5.0 boxes for sale! www.amazon.com and I swear the price drops $20 per year! It was $399 when i bought it new. What is even worse is Atomix prevents you from selling your license or transferring to someone else. I have two licenses I would love to be able to transfer to friends or sell online, but I cant. At least with ITCH and SSL you can sell your hardware and the software is still completely usable to the new owners.

I once used VDJ DOT DOT update without testing. I got to the gig and the controller map would not work at all. I later found out the map names of the controller (Stealth Control) had changed to accommodate 2 unique layouts of the Stealth Control. This is an issue it took me nearly 2 months to get VDJ to understand that Numark had manufactured 1 unit that had mirrored knobs and buttons at the time and another unit that had an FX section on left and global section on right. For some reason the buttons would get confused throughout the night and forget which deck they belong to... even with the deck name hard coded in the script text. So after that update to "fix" the issue... still does not work. I have two friends that still use VDJ and the Stealth Control and have not dared to try and make those buttons map and work right. They just use the onscreen GUI to activate FX.

Additionally, the Stealth Control was listed as a controller VDJ and Numark had pre mapped to work with VDJ. You go to Numark and/or VDJ for support and none of them have BOTH VDJ/Cue AND a Stealth Control to test and figure this out.

It would be one thing if the $400 license price tag included industry leading support. But their online support reps are volunteers.

Another example: I bought a VCI100 and could not get the platters to NOT be touch sensitive. As the manual says, I turned the platter dials all the way to least sensitive and worked with one of the VDJ online chat reps for 3 hours while he was connected to my laptop.... every time I touched the platters the track would stop. That was just not going to work for me. :) The support had take ALOT of time with me (and I was extremely grateful) but then the rep had to leave for lunch. Said he would be back in 1 hr. The online chat NEVER came back "online" that day. I worked on it 3 more hours and then returned the VCI100. I exchanged it for the above mentioned Stealth Control.

So if you hear Serato DJs saying "VDJ is not ready for primetime" these are two examples I provide to illustrate how true that statement is. I realize things may be better with 7.0, but seriously they burned a bridge with me. You dont price your solution at $400 for the software alone, provide NO support, and then not allow the user to discard the license at their own discretion. To me that is just tricking you into

....tricking you into buying and no way out once you realize you have been had. At least if I could sell the license maybe a few beginner Djs would have an easier time getting their start.

In our Area VDJ is rampant for Dj that uses Video......So far it's working for them I really haven't seen it crash.

But I'm willing to wait til ITCH got Videos...... I'm just so used to Serato products.

Thats the truth.. dont get me wrong i like serato ssl and cant wait for itch to stop crawling and start walking. its like when you see a big kid in a stroller when he needs to be walking. Itch been crawling long enuff. We want it to be better. One step at a time is ok but one step every year or to is a bit redundant. sp6, better lay-out, night and day, beat grids. are great improvements for 1.8 1.9 but, we could of use the bridge, or better yet vst plug-in, Vdj7 is a vst plugin.. i can wait on video

Alot of newer DJs use it here too, mostly because I got them started on it. The rest use Serato or Ableton. The Guitar Center DJs seem to like Traktor because they can tweak alot of things more.

A local club converted to a 1/2 and 1/2 video and dance bar and uses VDJ. Video wise at the time it was really the only lean, cheap, and dual purpose solution. I think if Serato had it first it might be another story. At first VDJ would shutdown or freeze for no reason at all on them using Denon gear. I was asked to come in and take a look since I had VDJ experience. I ran a few patches, updates, and had them use the latest firmware for the Denon and it seemed to straighten out. However this was live gear in a packed house. The bar bought put a new quad core PC, monitors, flat screen TVs, and all Denon mixer, CD players, and HC4500 ... so it wasnt a cheap update to their systems. I think if they had another option, they may have scrapped VDJ. They had to live with that situation for quite a few months and it frustrated the DJs alot.

When I first started using Numark Cue with a Numark DMC2 and DJIO, connected to a PPD9000 mixer. Next to the Xone DX, this was my favorite setup. It was rock solid after playing with it for about 30 days of testing and tweaking the settings. This is probably because Numark packaged and committed that the software, controller, and DJIO were all made to work together.

I think since Atomix never really had that focus in mind, the product has since been a birthing place for a ton of features and functions. However it was all made to work generically with a wide range of controllers and audio interfaces. I was the first to celebrate that because in all honesty a MIDI controller that just has buttons is really not a huge feat of engineering. So spend your money on the audio interface, and buy a modestly priced MIDI controller.

You really cant take that approach because each manufacturer puts their twist on the MIDI hardware. DJ A buys controller X and hooks to Software 123 and it works right? Almost. Those things that you thought you would really LOVE about the controller... doesnt work.

NS7 - everyone wanted those platters to work with VDJ so they could do Video and scratch.
VCI100 and 300 - everyone wanted those platters to work with VDJ so they could do Video and scratch.
Allen and Heath Xone 3D, 4D, and DX - everyone thought this would be great... use Ableton one night and do Video with VDJ the next. Jog wheels and Encoder Knobs for Pitch and Loops are only mappable if you can convert the MIDI commands into a text definition file. I know it is not to be complex, but to me it just looked like Java Script. LOL

To me in retrospect, that is where VDJ went wrong. They now have a American Audio, Denon, and newer Hercules controllers coming out with VDJ packaged. But just like Tracktor, they are the OEM/LE versions. You still have to fork out another $150 to get all their advanced features, like >2 decks, samplers, a prepare crate, internal playlist support, etc... you know... the stuff we take for granted with ITCH controllers without having to pay another $150.

WOW, maybe this year I will get all my VDJ emotional wounds out of my system so i can stop with these long posts, trying to purge my negative emotions. LOL

Sorry ya'll :)

That's cool man I think it helps a lot of the forum members giving your take on that product.

I'm not going to dissect Chads entire post because he'll just accuse me of following him around again. The truth is actually that I read the Serato forums a lot - VDJ may be my main playout system but I also own a VCI-300 and an SL-1 and like to keep up with what is going on. Aside from those I also own Torq, TSP, RPM, Ableton Live and MMF+V.

It's worth pointing out that VDJ MIDI support has improved further and a lot of MIDI devices are mappable (for input) without creating a definition file. If you do need to create a definition file then there is actually a tool available to assist with this now too.

Before that (v5) you had simple MIDI support (which you still have now) and outside of that you had to wait for an update from VDJ to support the device. I really cannot see how them adding the ability for you to add your own controllers - whilst retaining the simple learning for those who can't - is 'going wrong'.

Also the online support is not generally staffed by volunteers and I've corrected you on that in the past.

As for the LE versions, I don't see much of a difference to the situation with other controllers too - with my Ecler EVO5 I got LE versions of Traktor and Ableton IIRC. The $150 price you quoted is actually dependant on the product you are upgrading from too.

I'm still firmly of the opinion that if you want to use a controller that is not natively supported then you should make sure you have the skills to get it working (or at least try it out with the trial first?)

exactly --- that makes since and also explains why i no longer use vdj --- still own it just don't use it.

Oh SBDJ, I know you worship the quick sand i walk on. :)

I think it is also worth pointing out that you were once and maybe still are one of those volunteer support techs with VDJ. And honestly, I didnt even know they had volunteers until you told me that was the case. You in fact use it once to defend the fact a volunteer wasnt representing VDJ. So if they couldnt solve my issue, it wasnt their fault. However that is who VDJ chooses to let help. If the Volunteer cant help, they should escalate the issue to development or actual VDJ support employees.

The fact that volunteers are labled as VDJ moderators is very misleading. I have found over here those are called TechMates. Which very clearly defines their relationship with Serato. They are a user, just like us, but are not paid by Serato.

The controllers I bought for VDJ were in fact on the VDJ "recommended controllers" page. In fact the VCI100 and Stealth Control are still listed: www.virtualdj.com on that page. On line chat support even connected to my laptop to verify my use of the mapper and confirmed it was 100% correct. There was no explanation as to why I was having the issues I was having.

There is only 1 conclusion a user can reach. It doesnt work. I am also very clear that my occurrences were overtime and over a year ago. So sure things may have changed. But the underlying point of my posts above is VDJ missed the mark on their promise of bring whatever controller, we recommend these: www.virtualdj.com , and map it to work with VDJ. I followed everything they said to do and it still didnt work.

Hence why I am in this Serato forum, a Xone DX owner, and an ITCH user. It WORKS!

I was, albeit I didn't actually get much of a chance to help out as it was whilst I was stuck on mobile broadband!

A forum moderator is someone who looks after the running of a forum. People who work for Atomix have 'Atomix' under their name ;)

My point wrt to suppported hardware was related to your issues with definition files.

I'm happy you've got what works for you - however 'it works' applies to you. Itch doesn't meet my requirements and thus 'doesn't work' for me. Would I still recommend Itch to a user? Absolutely.

I would not turn people away from VDJ or Traktor if they were MIDI and Audio tech savvy. If they are not tech savvy, I would push them toward ITCH. I am tech savvy, but I have never taken any training on MIDI or Audio Tech. The definition file thing may be better now, but back then it just did not have the time or patience to track down all the skills and knowledge I needed to do the work. I just wanted the dang thing to work so I could get to doing gigs, pleasing crowds, and making money. :)

Most of the DJs I have mentored and pushed to VDJ, have all needed help getting things figured out. So I should charge VDJ for all the support avoidance I saved them. LOL

funny no one does 7 hour sets anymore.

if i go to the restroom i am back before one song finishes :)

VDJ NS7 works fine not hangups.
Sounds better? over quad L36s and a pair of D32 vegas who the hell knows.
To each their own.
Put erotic city or rock lobster on and got to the bathroom already...

My DJ team and I have been discussing the "which is better VDJ or Serato" issue for months. In my opinion, VDJ and its cutting edge features is what is making my company grow at an alarming rate. We are doing things that are absolutely blowing our audiences away. Vdj is rock solid, vdj is powerful, and what matters the most is what your audience is experiencing. It's what they hear on the dancefloor. The "civilians" don't give a sh*t what software you are using. They only care about the end result, and that is the music. It's 100% the operator, not the machine. You're either a good dj or you're not. The method and tools you use to deliver your art means nothing to anyone except to other djs. Bottom line, vdj is NOT an automixing tool, but it can be during dinner at a wedding, vdj is NOT a automatic beatmatching tool. It's the job of the dj to match the songs, by both eye AND ear, most importantly musical knowledge. I would love a decent technical explaination to as of why serato is better. Don't tell me its because of MAC verses Windows... Windows 7 is completely rock solid, if its not working right, its because the user doesn't understand how to use it. Please someone explain to me why I should switch to serato. I really want to know what you think, please.

It depends on what matters to you. I'm here because of the out of box solutions and fantastic support from Serato. I had a bad experience with VDJ after 4yrs of use. Brand new Sony Viao W7 machine and supported controllers and nothing but crashes,freezes, and malfunctioning mappings. Features don't matter to me. Its solid performance and support.... as well as reliability. That has been my experience for Serato. VDJ was rock solid for me until v6. Then I saw a whole other side of the fence and eventually the gate to greener pastures. I also did switch to a MAC. The Viao just would not hunt for some reason. I've not looked back since, but I did find fragmentation with VDJ between the two platforms. Since effects and plugins are user developed & shared, it does not mean a plug in you used on Windows will have an OSX compatible version. I found out quickly 99% of the plugins were windows only. So I only got what VDJ supplied in the installation as far as plug ins go. Which is zilch. So that was another plus for Serato at that time.

Also the UI is much cleaner for Serato as alot of functions in ITCH are designed on the hardware, which is where I want those functions to be tactile for application.

why do you need to switch?

First off, VDJ7 is extremely reliable. What ever they changed from version 6-7 made all the difference. Same with Windows Vista to Windows 7. Windows 7 with Virtual DJ 7 in my opinion is reliable enough to use in a 1,000 person club.

The reason I ask is because Serato is the industry standard. My question is, does veryone use it because everyone uses it? Or is there a real technical reason to make the change? Has anyone actually done a side by side benchmark test with timecode and cross compatable hardware? I'm looking for the truth.

the truth you are looking for is not out there... people use it cause it cos a solid platform. All modern systems will do what is needed to be done. i feel all systems are different but cant really say one is 'better' . my portable setup is itch ( mainly switched fron vdj cayse of better controllers) and my turntable setup is now traktor

The differrenchiator to me is Serato partnered early on with Rane. Rane has a reputation of solid club solutions of all genre. I think this helped engraciate Serato into the club industry because the hardware and software was one price point bundle. It was one choice to make not ala cart like VDJ. I think Native Instruments found the same ingratiated motif due to their established studio and remix lines.

To me that is why Atomix has had such an uphill battle. No real prior brand in then studio or pro world. They then went to Numark and found some love they with Virtual Vinyl and the DMC/Djio solutions, as well as rebranding VDJ as Numark Cue for retail distribution. That is how and only reason I went to VDJ has because I used nothing but Numark equipment prior and loved it. Otherwise I would have gone the Serato route. Once I started to see the Itch controllers and brands coming to the flag... That is all it took once my VDJ experience went south.

VDJ7 and W7 may be magic but I'm on Mac and still don't see a ton of plugins for MAC. I am a testament to how hard it is to win a customer back. It takes a lot of money to switch your DJ hardware and computers out. So I won't be going back anytime soon if ever.

Interesting... Kraal, out of curiousity, what does your turntable setup look like (components)? And why Traktor especially since Itch to Scratch seems like an easier transition?

Speaking for myself, when I used VDJ 7.0, I noticed the platter manipulation was not as tight as Itch. Also the GUI is not as intuitive for my taste. I like Serato's library management system over VDJ also. I don't go around saying one is better then the other. I just use what I feel is best for me. If someone is using VDJ then that's what works for them and who am I to say he should switch based on what I like.

The truth is based on what u want in a DJ app. It sounds like you have it in VDJ. No need for a discussion which will eventually turn into an argument.

I use Vdj as well, but am just a few months out of beginner. I have music training and know theory, but I find it tough to find out certain specs. Can any of you guys tell me what the deal is with scratching with Vdj? I've been going total controllerist as a result of confusion on where to go with equipment. I don't want to drop hundreds of dollars on equipment that will be a waste, and though I do my research, I'm wondering if there's a way to use technic 1200s with vdj and have zero latency? If not I'll just buck and do serato, which isn't a huge deal, but for the video DJing I can do on vdj for $1000 less, I'm making sure the steps I take aren't wasted... Advice?

The question of WHY Serato is the club standard? In my opinion It comes down to the licensing differences. I think Serato "gets it" far better than the other guys.

The VDJ software is licensed to a *specific DJ* (aka a "seats" license.) They expect you to buy a license for very DJ in your business. A specific DJ can have 2 copies installed for backup purposes, but they are not to be using them at the same time. (There are the VDJ EULA terms, not mine.) I became painfully aware when I switched from VDJ to Serato, that I could not sell my Cue Pro and VDJ Licenses like I did my Reason and Pro Tools license keys. The license is non transferable. Also if you literally interpret this EULA, it really is not conducive to clubs wanting to provide their own computers and libraries. They *should* have to buy 1 license for each user. www.virtualdj.com

Traktor is a key code and major updates are chargable. However the code can be unregistered from the user and registered to another user. However the DJ has to buy the software key to use at home and then enter a club to use the hardware.

Simply put, Serato licenses their software to the bundled hardware. Therefore anyone using the hardware can use the software. Plug ins can be used only with certain hardware, which means as long as the plug in is coded and used on a single system at a time, it should be in compliance. Therefore, DJs are able to come to serato.com, download and install SSL or ITCH, setup their libraries (beatgrids, cue points, loops, tags, etc...) using the offline player. Then use the software anywhere the Serato compliant hardware is present. Whether you are a touring or budding DJ, this mirrors how traditional club setups go. The club provides the audio setup and the DJ brings the music library.

Most likely a serious DJ is going to have a home or studio setup to reflect their perferred club setup. But given how the licensing works, it is very friendly for clubs and DJ businesses. You pay by the installation, not the seats/users.

If you are dead set on vinyl, the VDJ solution that mirrors SSL and Traktor Scratch timecode packages would be Numark's Virtual Vinyl. It can be found on Amazon.com for around $300. www.amazon.com If you look at the VDJ hardware page you will see many other interfaces that support timecode. You can also purchase timecode media from VDJ on their website or simply download their CD wave track. But keep in mind you need to still buy turntables or ensure the clubs you DJ at have them already setup and installed and will allow you to plug your audio interface in.

However if you want to scratch because that is the kind of DJ you want to become, the Serato solutions you may want to consider is the NS7 w/ ITCH. There are mappers in VDJ for the NS7 to see if you can get more mileage out of your VDJ license, but you obviously get a full version of ITCH with the NS7. So you can try both and see which workflow/setup better enables your creativity and skills.

If you want to stay controller based, but have time code flexibility SSL will work with a select few USB controllers. Just look at the bottom of the SSL product page: serato.com If you compare that list to the VDJ list you can try to find common ground that will allow you to buy 1 set of hardware that works with both software. Then you can put them through your own personal paces and tests to see which you like better. Additionally I believe Rane released ASIO and Direct Audio drivers so that you can use their SSL hardware with other applications. So even if you buy a Rane SSL audio interface/mixer, it could still work with VDJ if you so choose to. www.virtualdj.com

Video is already available in SSL and is anticipated to be available this year via ITCH. So you have to play your cards appropriately there for your needs. When I decided to switch DJ solutions, I tried to find hardware that could be used with VDJ, Serato, or Traktor. I could then really decide what works for me. I decided on the Xone DX. It works with Traktor (maps provided by A&H) and will supposedly work with VDJ... but I dont have the time or expertise to smooth it out. In the end, I found it was the most reliable with ITCH as care had been taken to ensure it does work properly out of the box.

If you are still dipping your toes in the pool of "what is right for me", you may want to try and take this approach. If you need to bounce between solutions for different occasions, then you can do so. OR you will at least finally know what DOES work for you and if it fails you... you have back ups without having to dump and buy different hardware.

When it comes to scratching, using technics and timecode vinyl... Is there any advantage to using serato over vdj?

I haven't used VDJ 7 with vinyl, but on 6.2 or whatever, the difference was major. I have always used SSL, and went to VDJ temporarily while so that I could mix video while still saving up for a TTM57 and a MacBook Pro. I used VDJ in various different configurations trying to get good results (Serato box as soundcard, old Torq box as soundcard, VDJ native vinyl, serato vinyl), and still always had issues.

When I'd really get into scratching, it would "lose its' place" often, or skip around to random spots. I also would have one deck go out on me mid-set frequently, and have to go into the menu and re-calibrate. On top of all that, it seemed like I had to reconfigure my video card settings before the show every single time I played.

It's possible to make it work, and it might be better now with VDJ 7, but in MY experience, VDJ is much better with controllers than it is with 1200s.

mt setup looks like this
www.facebook.com

i use traktor cause it is a more powerful set up. I am not the type of person that uses pre made edits and trasitions so mainly traktor can do what ever i need at any given point.... ITCH is basic mixing so if i am using turntables it is more about performance than straight music playing

@ Kraal - That is really nice setup Kraal, even if it is Traktor. JK! Those white flaps are really sweet! Do yo have white vinyl to do with it? That would be very sweet!!!!! On Topic, when you say more powerful - exactly what are the key things you tap into with Traktor that you cant with SSL or ITCH? I think that is what the chap is trying to figure out and determine if those really matter to him. I am always curious for information. So that is why I am asking myself. :)

One thing that keeps coming to mind is something I read when I first researched ITCH about 1 yr and a half ago. If you go to the bottom of the ITCH product page and click "read more" you should be taken here: serato.com

Serato's original approach with ITCH is to basically make the the hardware and software share the same DNA, making them more relate-able to one another. If you dig a bit deeper into researching the Traktor S4 and S2, that is exactly the same type of approach NI took with those controllers. Yes, you can use the mapper to change some of the functions, but there are some that are coded behind the scenes and can not be changed.

So I think it just shows that this universal mapping approach VDJ and Traktor take is NOT necessary the more high performing option with controllers.

I see, yes the effects possibilities are definitely greater with Traktor. It isn't always easy but I usually manage to find extended mixes for most of the music I know I'll be playing. That looks like the setup I am trying to attain: two technics 1200s w/ dicers but would probably go the Serato DVS route.

as a whole the serato/traktor format is the same... turntables and music... I personally like itch due to all the buttons being right there....

the difference with tracktor is i can program my dicers to do things that i have to (press or click ) on the screen to do. The sync function while using turntables is a plus too. now i never owned ssl just use it in clubs that have it so what it came down to was just making a choice of what i wanted to pay for..
djchad72 those are white vinyl. i honestly think the x1 was what sold me and the openess of programing the dicers to do what i want....

@DJFranke Labate: I assume you have heard Technics discontinued the 1200 line: www.djtechtools.com

The statement issued by Panasonic points to difficulty in the procurement of analog parts. So you may want to take note that if you have a breakage in the foreseeable future it may become a paper weight as the parts may not be available for the repair.

If you search "Technics 1200" on GuitarCenter.com, all you find are used tables and are anywhere from $350 - $550 each. I looked at a few of my favorite online stores - sweetwater.com, americanmusiclal.com, and guitarcenter.com and none of them had NEW in stock. The list price for new is around $800 on the Panasonic store, but not in stock. It says "available at your local retailer." But obviously not finding any from some of the more popular DJ suppliers.

In short, it may not be the best business decision if this is going to be a primary rig. Especially when there are more and more options coming out. Plus if you never knew what it was like to mix on 1200's, then you really dont know what you are missing and will perhaps learn newer more modern ways to skillfully manipulate your mix. :)

there are MANY MANY places to get parts if the 1200 happens to break....

Numark TTX USB or Stanton Str8 are also viable alternatives.

Now there is... But what about in a year? Two years? If The only choice is to buy used... It is quite possible in 1-2 years he'll need a repair. I would not bet on existing supply to maintain forever. With no more new parts and everyone contending for existing parts in future years.... They will be harder and harder to come by even faster than other equipment. If I recall the 1200 line had a huge life span for owners.

But then again your the one who owns a pair himself. ;)

i bet it is easier and cheaper to fix turntables than it is to fix my ddj-s1 :)

besides if the itch shows any thing about controller lifespan they are needing to be replaced every 2 years or so... vc1-300 to vc1-300mk2 ns7 -ns7fx v7 --- pioneer ddj-s1 and ns6 all needed to update to get new features.

not saying anything but not to down the idea of getting turntables. the art of using turntables is a good skill to have... the scare of them being obsolete is as practical as worning that itch maybe obsolete in 2 years

I get what you are saying... however please consider these scenarios:

CD/Mixer Setup Upgrade:
CDJ Upgrade -
Check completed listings for used Pioneer CDJ1000's MK3 - You can sell a pair for $1500. CDJ2000's go for around $1900. The difference out of pocket to upgrade via a sell/buy is $2300.
DJM Upgrade -
Going from a DJM 600 used goes for around $350 (average.) A used DJM800 is $1000. Difference out of pocket - $650.

Total cost to upgrade a CD/Mixer 1 generation - $2950. (Keep in mind the end result is 2 decks.)

DJ Controller Upgrade -
Sell NS7 w/ NSFX used on ebay - average price sold is about $900. Just the NS7 alone is about $670.
You can buy a used NS6 for $800 on ebay and new for around $1000.

Total cost to upgrade a controller generation - $100 - $330. (keep in mind end result is 4 decks.)

This is a big difference in price to go from Gen 1 to Gen 2. There are going to be puts and takes between the two setups. But dont know it justifies a nearly $3k gap in price. I submit that those who learn on one platform always find creative ways to pull off skills than those moving from 1 platform to another. There is alot of baggage that goes along with the person. As big of a part technology has played in the evolution of the DJ, the one thing DJs have proven is their resistance to change.

... so that is why I am saying if he wants to use a computer as the heart of the setup, why go with a more costly TCO that really cant be upgraded any further?

Obviously - for some its just iconic to have TurnTables. So I guess you just cant put a price on that. After all, i still think your white vinyl is pretty impressive. :)

I'm honestly not too worried about the Technics breaking down as I've heard they are built like tanks. I helped a friend of mine put together his DVS system. I found a great deal for 1200mk5s with a behringer ddm4000 mixer, scratch live box, denon controller, and speakers with an amp for $1300. Everything was almost mint and I have played with it and I really like the feel and the look of the technics. The Stanton St-8 and STR-8 series are also an option but would come out more expensive than used Technics. I figured a DVS system with Technics at the heart is extremely customizeable. Nevertheless I love my VCI-300mkII and VFX-1. It is the ultimate portable solution for me and can get the same results as two turntables and a mixer unless you want to perform advanced scratch routines.

yeah my 1200's were used 500 for the pair... traktor box was 340 then upgrade to scratch pro for 70 vestax mixer on craigslist for 100 --- so the set up was 1010

All good deals...

when i first started i bought the mixtrack virtual dj then mixdeck traktor and now im using the ns7sfx w itch... love them but i was having a lot of audio dropouts on my comp and i run an i7 8gb ram 1 gb video card good stuff...so for the longest i wanted to try vdj7 on ns7s but i got the droppouts to stop i think maybe the 2.0 updates aswell as new audio drivers being released for my comp works solid now... today i tried vdj7 on them and aside from me feeling very uncomfortable with the way the buttons function...but you can definitely hear the difference when scratching and manipulating the platters...i also love the way the waveforms are colored it helps me when im beatmatching the songs... thats prolly why traktor just picked that up... but yea serato really slacks on updates ESPECIALLY with itch...

I've had my 1200's for 13 years, been in road cases since day one, and I've never had to have any service done to them. They've traveled on a weekly basis (mostly 2-3 times a week on average) for 10 out of 13 years, and again, never been serviced. I've had them looked at once, to be sure nothng was wearing, etc. and the store owner said they were in perfect condition.

I've since migrated to an NS6 for my mobile gigs, and my 1200's have taken to the studio setup quite nicely. As long as you take care of them properly, they'll take care of you for a long time.

This week I have been very inner focused on the whole "weight" of the rig. In fact, I sold the majority of my mobile equipment off (QSC Speakers, Lights, Stands, etc...) Keeping my studio equipment - Ableton Suite + Controllers, KRK Rokit6 + S10, Kontrol, as well as all my ITCH gear (Xone DX and Twitch.)

I had major back surgery this year. I dont need a repeat. Some of this gear can be pretty heavy to manage week in and out, and the majority of my business was club anyway. So to have $5k in equipment standing around out of use didnt make sense.

But I can tell you one thing. My back will thank me every time I just roll in with a DX, Laptop, and Headphones. LOL

Glad it worked out for you DJ Frank! Spin on!

Good call Chad, health before anything!

LMAO@Some of these whiners complaining about automix an blah blah blah... What did you think we use to do in the 80's when your the only dj and you use to have to play for 10 - 12 hours!? Gimme a break with the automixing crap...

Now I will say this... As good as ITCH is, there are a few things that need to be sorted out. Mainly the adding folders with subfolders... Its very tedious @ the moment with having to create crates inside of crates... The other few bugs, im sure they will work out. But for now, I am happy with what ITCH is capable of...

This was before 2.0.. Hands down the best program for control user djing audio, video is a different story at this point.. and so is bridge. it made alot of improvement since 1.7 only thing I want to know is will it take two years to improve itch again....

im happy with 2.0 as long as they come out with little maintenance updates for the bugs here... and fix the function of the sync button(works as an ON only button)...since my last post i've done three club gigs and not one audio dropout or anything...we have three dj's one that uses virtual dj and the other traktor... they both give me compliments on how "clean" the music sounds and on just the fact how its such a powerful all in one unit...

I opened a feature request for the sync button behavior here serato.com

I am surprised others of not jumped on it given the large amount of feedback on the change. But then again perhaps it got buried with all the where and when will 2.1, video, and bridge be put posts. :(

Feel free to post your thoughts on how the feature would suit you.

I opened a feature request to enhance the sync button function with a setup preference setting here:
serato.com

I am surprised no one has shown any interest given the amount of discussion it's received. But perhaps too much other discussion keeps knocking the thread to back pages.

Oops.... Sorry got an error my first post didn't go through.

i spoke to soon just had a crash practicing with a lot of breaking up sound and it was unresponsive when i put on a loop lol guess i won't be trying that anymore lol

I feel You DJ Fluke. a serato rep got back to me and said they are working on this,because alot of mobile dj keep asking for this feature

ummm @ maskrider its not a joke us mobile DJ & other guys need to use it from tyme to tyme = quote
report
link

Serato, Support
Matt-C 9:56 PM 1 August 2011
I hear ya DJ-Tyme. This is a feature request a lot of mobile DJs have requested, so is on our list.
I can't promise when however, but I'll close this thread down as a feature request to add more ammo to the request :D

@ DJ Fluke these dang idiot DJ's on here are lame. im with you 100% ive been asking serato for this feature for awhile. i have the ns7 and use VDJ 70% of the tyme and itch 30% of the tyme just because of that feature. im a mobile dj and i do it alone. this is what they told me last tyme =
Serato, Support
Matt-C 9:56 PM 1 August 2011
I hear ya DJ-Tyme. This is a feature request a lot of mobile DJs have requested, so is on our list.
I can't promise when however, but I'll close this thread down as a feature request to add more ammo to the request :D

To be fair I didn't see the Mac users offering to buy any of the windows developers a decent Mac. One user was desperate for a Mac plugin and actually lent me a MBP and paid me to develop it for him. After the demo he also handed me a residency at his venue too.

I've actually stepped back from free plugin development for now - there are people who appreciate it but the sense of 'entitlement' is growing and it does my head in just how ungrateful some people can be.

Couple that with a few other recent issues and even I am looking into alternatives to VDJ.

SBDJ, it's not up to the users of a program to incent or retool the 3rd party developers to make dual compatible plugin, especially when Atomix prohibits plugs to be freely traded outside of the use community. They want it all to be trafficked through their site. Therefore, It's up to Atomix to incent the developers (ie compensate or tool) to keep the VDJ user base on equal footing. You dont say the software is compatible with Windows and MAC and then allow for one platform to have such a large gap in a major need of DJs: effects! There were many requests for Atomix to do close this gap themselves and they violently shutdown threads that kept asking for Mac plugins. To me that was/is saying, 'sorry, you've paid for the license but you're on your own, our business model is more important to us vs. You happily using the software you paid for." It's not a good way to do business as the plugins to VDJ is effects for audio and video and Traktor and Serato offer considerably more upon installation and are available on either platform.

I don't see this as your issue as a 3rd party developer.... It's Atomix's to solve and get in front of. However they choose not to deal with it and that was the last straw for me to say enough is enough. I quickly made Atomix a non adopted vendor for my business. I sold all VDJ related equipment immediately and adopted Serato as my vendor of choice for digital DJ solutions.

Also someone stated earlier, "iTunes does not offer auto fade". That is false as there are settings to control the time and fade in/out curves. Granted it's global but you can avoid silence in your playlist. I know I build all my playlists in iTunes for gigs as I also like to use them on my iPod to examine my selection on the go and use as a ready to play backup. So it's a 2 birds one stone solution for me.

For ITCH controller users simply run a 1/8" to RCA cable from your laptops headphone out to your controllers aux input. Pipe the aux through a channel and off you go.

I had to use auto mix once on VDJ when I forgot my headphones and a friend retrieved them from my car. It does have its uses, but it by no means is perfect or the only option, ESP if you are looking for fades and not beat matching.

I am currently a Serato user who was foolish enough to purchase VDJ8 @ $299. I can say from my own stand point...I should have never done it. Hasn't work right since it was loaded. I am currently a resident DJ at a night club and VDJ crashed 3 time in a four hour period. Called support and one says software issue the other says hardware. I screwed up!!!!! Serato by a mile...used it for over 5 years and not once did I have a freeze or crash. I do however, wish Serato could boost their continuous play ie dinner music or for whatever I need to get accomplished...just saying.

Hey DjjC - What does "boost their continuous play" means. I know they have it in SDJ, but what more do you want done to it? Thanks...

Ragman, maybe I left that comment alittle lacking...when using Serato DJ, Auto play funtion plays tracks nonstop however, there's a 2-3 pause at the end of every track before it plays the next track. Basically a dead silence until the next track plays. If there is a simple fix to it I would be happy. All tracks have been analyzed also. Thanks for your help.

It works off of when the track starts and ends. So if there's dead space at the beginning and end of your tracks or your tracks fade-in and fade out that's not really SDJ's fault as it's going by the how the song was recorded. If I play tracks that have an instant start at the first beat and stops cold on a beat at the end, there is no silence going to the next track unless it was recorded with silence or has a fade in and a fade out. Hope that makes sense. Serato get's blamed for somethings that's more on the DJ. I have a crate of songs I need to start and stop cold so I've removed the silence at the beginning an end of those tracks. If I set that crate to Autoplay, there's never any silence.

I think he means non manned play for dinner and seated atmosphere. iTunes and VDJ allow you to set continuous mix parameters on the mix in/out from song to song. Which eliminates dead space. It's a big of a stomach drop every time you hear a 2-3 second dead space because you hope nothing has happened while away. Always on music lets you know there isn't problem. Editing you whole library and playlist is a long way around. It would be good if SDJ:

1) let you set continuous play timing on settings so that next song would start 1-2 second earlier and a configurable fade.

2) route iTunes to a deck an just let us play from a playlist using iTunes playback settings on continuous play.

You can use itunes, just set the Soundcard on your computer to whatever controller you are using.