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NS7 **CRITICAL** bug related to AAC files and USB port
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NS7 **CRITICAL** bug related to AAC files and USB port

djcerla 1:55 PM - 21 February, 2010
OSX 10.5.8 Leopard, MBP 2.4 15", 4GB RAM, all ITCH versions

NS7 plugged to the USB port farthest from screen
NSFX plugged to the other port
a song is playing on a deck
trying to load an AAC file (EVERY AAC file gives the same result) into the other deck causes:

1) the NS7 sound abruptely cuts in both Master and Headphones outs
2) while the AAC file info is correctly displayed, no waveform appears
3) the wafeform of the other song fades away; I mean from that moment onwards it becomes silence
4) every attempt to load any new songs (even WAVs or MP3s) causes behaviour 2)
5) the program seems to work correctly (library, effect selection, etc.), and it's NOT crashed
6) restarting ITCH solves the problem, until a new AAC is loaded (jump to point 1)

A) changing the order of the USB slots SOLVES THE PROBLEM (all perfectly normal)
B) having both NS7 and NSFX plugged to an USB hub SOLVES THE PROBLEM
C) plugging in my Apogee Symphony Mobile PCMCIA audio interface SOLVES THE PROBLEM, even with USB cables in the "buggy" position
D) on a Snow Leopard Macbook Aluminium, all perfectly normal in both USB slots.
E) the problem appears even in older ITCH version (i.e. 1.4)
F) changing USB cable, same results, so it's not a broken cable issue
G) I have made no changes in the system and not installed new software; as usual, I've run the repair permissions and daily/weekly/monthly scripts in the afternoon.
H) with or without the NSFX, same results, so the NSFX is not to blame here
I) the problem is repeatable and consistent, as is the solution to switch USB ports.
L) on the VCI-300, all perfectly normal, even with USB cables in the "buggy" position

Unfortunately, since in my studio I always have the PCMCIA inserted, I didn't notice the problem until in front of 1.500 people yesterday night (and thanks God I always have my backup Macbook in the bag).

I will upgrade to Snow Leopard in the next few days, and keep the topic updated.

Please Serato guys look into this.
djcerla 2:07 PM - 21 February, 2010
M) zapped PRAM, same results.
djcerla 2:13 PM - 21 February, 2010
N) even if the USB hub is plugged to the "buggy" USB port, everything is working as expected. (it's a powered hub)
djcerla 2:57 PM - 21 February, 2010
BTW, given that AAC in ITCH seem somehow "dangerous" (one year ago I suffered from the "editing AAC tags syndrome" just fixed in 1.5), and given the only problems I've encountered so far are AAC related, I'm definitely dissing them and converting to WAV.
djcerla 2:59 PM - 21 February, 2010
*dropping, not dissing
The Reverand 3:05 PM - 21 February, 2010
Quote:
I'm definitely dissing them and converting to WAV.

That would be what I'd do. Just out of curiosity has anyone tried AAC playback on Windows? If I were Serato, that's the first thing I'd want to know: if the bug affects both platforms.
I keep everything MP3, more stuff supports it.
The Reverand 3:09 PM - 21 February, 2010
Wait Wait Wait. When you say powered hub do you mean the internal hub on you MBP or an actual external USB hub?
The MBP, and most other laptops will concentrate their USB ports onto a single port on the board. So all those ports share power. It's a more energy efficient design, but damn.
I don't however think your USB ports have anything to do with your problem.
djcerla 3:09 PM - 21 February, 2010
I tend to prefer WAVs (I don't need huge music libraries, but the equivalent of a couple of record cases), but of course AACs are iTunes format, and converting every time is a pain; however, I must do it now, as I don't feel them safe anymore.
djcerla 3:11 PM - 21 February, 2010
Quote:

I don't however think your USB ports have anything to do with your problem.


It's DEFINITELY the problem, as switching USB ports solves it 100%. I know it's a weird one.

And yes, when using an external powered hub the problem disappears.
djcerla 3:12 PM - 21 February, 2010
but weird things are common when AAC is in play... serato.com
The Reverand 3:23 PM - 21 February, 2010
Your right that is freaken weird. Stupid DRM.
kraal 3:24 PM - 21 February, 2010
can anyone else duplicate this.... I mean if it is just an issue you are noticing then it really maybe your system
djcerla 3:47 PM - 21 February, 2010
Quote:
Stupid DRM.


There is no DRM anymore.

Quote:
can anyone else duplicate this.... I mean if it is just an issue you are noticing then it really maybe your system


don't know what to think... it may well be that at the club I've always plugged the "right" port... and at home it never happened because when the Apogee soundcard in plugged in, the problem doesn't arise.
Simon B. 3:54 PM - 21 February, 2010
Quote:
can anyone else duplicate this.... I mean if it is just an issue you are noticing then it really maybe your system


I experienced a similar problem last night using my Apple Lossless (that is, its not DRM related) AAC wrapped files. For the record, all edits are exported as .wav files and I encode them into .m4a files using Apple Lossless compression (using max from sbooth.org).

Setup: OSX 10.6.2 Snow Leopard, MBP 2.0 13.3", 2GB RAM, all ITCH versions

NS7 was plugged into the USB port farthest from the power supply connector. A mouse dongle was accidentally plugged into the USB port closest to the power supply connector (its tiny, totally forgot it was there). AAC file would load, but it would cut out the other track completely and kill the sound. By the time I figured this out, I was in the middle of my gig and just avoided all my edits. I'm going to mess around with it some more later and to try to provide more details.
djcerla 3:55 PM - 21 February, 2010
Gents, we have a bug.
kraal 4:04 PM - 21 February, 2010
thats what i was hoping cause if it cant be reproduce it may never be fixed
nik39 4:04 PM - 21 February, 2010
Wouldn't it make more sense to put this in the help section, which is monitored much better than this general subforum here?
djcerla 4:11 PM - 21 February, 2010
@ nik,

no, because it's a bug report and not a problem I'm having; also the software is no longer in beta, so I can't post in a beta section either
nik39 4:16 PM - 21 February, 2010
Since when shall bug reports be posted in the General section? Imagine every bug gets posted in this area over here - which gets little attention by the mods and esp. the developers.

Sorry, that makes no sense.
djcerla 4:19 PM - 21 February, 2010
It makes perfect sense, as it's a hugely dangerous bug that everybody should know about, and not be buried in the help section.
nik39 4:31 PM - 21 February, 2010
Wouldn't you want Serato to confirm that this is a bug and let them announce the serious bug maybe with a sticky topic rather than this thread getting lost in the general section? I mean... the "bug" has not even been confirmed by anyone else yet.

Anyway, it was just a suggestion. You do what you think is right.
djcerla 4:34 PM - 21 February, 2010
Quote:
I mean... the "bug" has not even been confirmed by anyone else yet.


Confirmed by Simon B.
nik39 4:38 PM - 21 February, 2010
Oh, sorry, I read kraals post "thats what i was hoping cause if it cant be reproduce it may never be fixed" and thought he meant that it needs be confirmed.
djcerla 4:50 PM - 21 February, 2010
No problems mate.

PS: could you try this on your NS7?
DJ dVO 8:27 PM - 21 February, 2010
So there is problem if you use OSX 10.5.8 Leopard. No problem if you use OSX 10.6 Snow Leopard?
djcerla 10:26 PM - 21 February, 2010
Quote:
So there is problem if you use OSX 10.5.8 Leopard. No problem if you use OSX 10.6 Snow Leopard?


Actually Simon B. reported the same exact problem on 10.6.2.
Simon B. 11:06 PM - 21 February, 2010
I'm playing around with it right now, it kills the audio 100% of the time I load an apple lossless file when the NS7 is plugged into the USB port farthest from the power supply connection on my macbook.

With the NS7 hooked into the USB port closes to the power supply loaded approximately 160 tracks with no problem. By contrast, with the NS7 hooked into the USB port farthest from the power supply, the audio dies immediately upon loading an apple lossless file. It works fine with MP3 files, but as soon as you feed it an AAC wrapped file, the audio dies.

This definitely a bug.
I1Kirm 11:35 PM - 21 February, 2010
Just buy a Mac!
I1Kirm 11:43 PM - 21 February, 2010
Jokes aside I tried to reproduce it on a MBP Unibody 2.53 with 10.6.2 and VCI but (fortunately) I wasn't able to.
DJ dVO 11:56 PM - 21 February, 2010
Not that it is an issue for me. I have always converted my AAC files into MP3. Not a good practice but I just like the ease of working with MP3s.
djcerla 6:28 AM - 22 February, 2010
@ I1Kirm

yes, also on my VCI-300 all OK, it's a NS7 thing.
eric007 7:10 AM - 22 February, 2010
I don't know if this is general knowledge, but I posted about having AAC problems. Serato has confirmed it and I haven't seen a fix.
www.serato.com

My suggestion: DO NOT USE AAC.

"You're right, it seems that there is an issue with ITCH / Scratch LIVE truncating AAC files. We're currently working on reproducing and fixing the problem and if turns out to be a fault with our software, we should have a fix soon. There is some concern though that there is a bug in Snow Leopard file system. We will post a fix or information as soon as it is availalble."
k_one 11:22 AM - 22 February, 2010
On a sidenote though, there has always been performance issues when using high bandwidth USB-devices on the USB-port farthest from the screen on Mac laptops(not just with Serato and NS7) due to the fact that the trackpad goes to sleep for power saving when not being touched and the USB-port farthest from the sceen is tied to the same BUS as the trackpad.
This then causes dropouts because the BUS is in "power save mode".
I have experienced USB-dropout on earlier occasions when using this USB port(and still do), so I always make sure to use the port closest to the screen when using my NS7.

However, seeing that only AAC files causes this fault is very strange though.
I could understand it if it happened all the time, that would mean there's a problem with AAC all together, but seeing that swapping USB-ports help makes it somewhat of a mystery.
A file type is in no way tied to a specific USB-port.

The only viable thing I can think of is that using the NS7 on the USB-port farthest from the screen causes you to be near CPU-limit when the trackpad sleeps, and maybe AAC then takes a little more resources to load compared to MP3 and this in the end causes the glitch in the sound.
Seeing that it works with an external hub then seems likely, due to the fact that this hub would keep the trackpad/USB-port from going to "sleep".
Maybe the Apogee Symphony card in some way does the same thing??
This is of course just suggestions from my side, not necessarily the correct cause of the problem.
But, seeing that it has been a problem in the past I wouldn't be surprised if it still is.
I1Kirm 12:00 PM - 22 February, 2010
I thought that the 'good usb port' is the one furthest from the screen.
At least this is what i read here www.serato.com
kraal 1:23 PM - 22 February, 2010
i heard for mac book it is the one furthest from screen and the macbook pro it is the closet to the screen
k_one 5:20 PM - 22 February, 2010
hehe...I never realized that it might differ on the different Mac models...seeing that this problem seems to be file specific, it probably doesn't relate to the same fault as other USB-dropouts though...I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the engineers and programmers come up with.

Anyway, one thing is for certain, if there's anything to actually complain about on Mac's, it would be this...finally a score for the Windows lovers!..on the other hand it seems that they all have IRQ conflicts all day long...
Wait, did I just start another MAC vs PC debate?(sorry!) LOL
I1Kirm 5:27 PM - 22 February, 2010
Quote:
i heard for mac book it is the one furthest from screen and the macbook pro it is the closet to the screen


If you're right then I have been using the wrong port on my MBP since day one... I guess I'm lucky
Serato
Dylan W 9:21 PM - 22 February, 2010
Hey Guys,

Sounds like a hairy problem!

AAC playback utilizes quicktime in the background and it sounds there is some strange problem that is specific to using the N7 and quicktime at the same time.

This is a kind of strange request but could you try playing the same AAC file through quicktime or itunes using the NS7 as the sound device?

If this works then it's an easy way to rule out a quicktime/NS7 conflict.
We'll keep investigating here as well and see if we can reproduce this issue.

Let us know how you go.
Cheers
Dylan.
djcerla 9:38 PM - 22 February, 2010
Thanks Dylan, I will try that and report in a couple of days (now I am in France for a gig with the VCI-300)
Simon B. 2:16 AM - 23 February, 2010
Dylan, I just tried the AAC files with the NS7 plugged into the port closest to the power connector. Itunes and QT have no problems playing the AAC tracks.
Luku 5:14 PM - 23 February, 2010
Confirmed :(( In fact, all the NS7 disconnection issues under 10.6.2 that I was talking about in another thread where related to this bug as it appears (still, I do not remember having this bug under 10.5.8...)... And for me it does not matter which USB port I use, same results (10.6.2, MacBook Pro). This is a huge one. Serato should act faaaast. I have a lot of files in AAC format and I do not want to re-convert them...
marcA 6:28 PM - 23 February, 2010
maybe it is an Apple problem... ik don't see how Itch could be the culprit...
maybe MBP has flaws to (now ducking under the table)
zaguama 7:15 PM - 23 February, 2010
i hope czar catches this, could help him on his mac vs pc debate.
djcerla 7:24 PM - 23 February, 2010
Quote:
maybe it is an Apple problem... ik don't see how Itch could be the culprit...


sure, like ITCH wasn't the culprit in the AAC corrupted by editing tags containing not-English letters bug fixed in 1.5.
djcerla 11:53 PM - 23 February, 2010
Quote:

This is a kind of strange request but could you try playing the same AAC file through quicktime or itunes using the NS7 as the sound device?


Hi Dylan,

no problems here playing AAC files using iTunes with NS7 as sound device.
djcerla 12:10 AM - 24 February, 2010
I strongly suspect the culprit is the 2.0.2 NS7 driver.
Luku 12:24 AM - 24 February, 2010
Quote:
I strongly suspect the culprit is the 2.0.2 NS7 driver.


I think so... because everything worked fine under earlier (one not certified for usage under 10.6) driver, as I recall...
djcerla 12:33 AM - 24 February, 2010
@ Serato

how to downgrade the driver? I'm still on Leopard on my primary machine.
I1Kirm 1:36 AM - 24 February, 2010
Maybe you should start reporting your iTunes versions as well. It might be a recent iTunes update...
Serato
Zeb 1:52 AM - 24 February, 2010
Quote:
@ Serato

how to downgrade the driver? I'm still on Leopard on my primary machine.

Hi djcerla, the only way to do this on Mac is to reinstall the version that came with your NS7, this will roll back the driver & then reinstall 1.5 final but select customize before installing & deselect drivers from the list.
Or if you have a copy of the RC1 installer you could just run that to reinstall driver version 1.6.4

If neither of these options are possible for you, let me know & I'll help get you sorted.

As a note, I was unable to reproduce this issue but I was using an aluminum Macbook, not a Macbook Pro.
I tired switching the usb ports between the NS7 & the NSFX but that made no difference.
marcA 8:27 AM - 24 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
maybe it is an Apple problem... ik don't see how Itch could be the culprit...


sure, like ITCH wasn't the culprit in the AAC corrupted by editing tags containing not-English letters bug fixed in 1.5.

LOL cerla, i love your fire man !
i was just playing you :)
djcerla 10:18 AM - 24 February, 2010
**UPDATE**

now it's the USB port closest to the screen that gives the problem (the "buggy" port swapped)
nik39 10:27 AM - 24 February, 2010
Are you sure that this is related to the USB port? It just seems very strange that this is depending on the USB port.
djcerla 10:39 AM - 24 February, 2010
Quote:
Are you sure that this is related to the USB port? It just seems very strange that this is depending on the USB port.


there is nothing "sure" here, apart the fact that switching USB port solves the problem; we can narrow it down and exclude a "weak USB port" problem, given that the "faulty" USB port swapped this morning.
djcerla 10:40 AM - 24 February, 2010
hi Zeb

tried to install the RC1 drivers, but 1.5 does not recognize the NS7 anymore.
k_one 11:23 AM - 24 February, 2010
Quote:
we can narrow it down and exclude a "weak USB port" problem, given that the "faulty" USB port swapped this morning.

Agreed.It does seem strange that the USB port should be the culprit, so I would think that this is rooted in software, be it OS X or Itch.
djcerla 11:44 AM - 24 February, 2010
Just upgraded to Snow Leopard.

Same problem.
Luku 12:53 PM - 24 February, 2010
Clean Install will not help. Tried. We need a new driver I suppose. 2.0.3? 2.1.0?
Serato
Zeb 9:34 PM - 24 February, 2010
Quote:
hi Zeb

tried to install the RC1 drivers, but 1.5 does not recognize the NS7 anymore.


Yeah I had the same result when doing this, I'm not sure why it doesn't connect though, the driver components were still installed in the correct locations.
Anyway you can get the driver installer from here - www.numark.com
This should fix it up for you.
djcerla 6:01 PM - 25 February, 2010
The culprit is definitely the 2.0.2 NS7 driver.

I've reinstalled 1.6.4 and, zap!, the problem has gone. All works fine now with AACs, as it used to be. Just 2 things:

1) while installing the drivers, the Installer said it couldn't install all components
2) now I am on Snow Leopard, so I should use 2.0.2; but that driver is buggy. What to expect using 1.6.4?
Luku 7:29 PM - 25 February, 2010
So we definitely need updated 2.x.x series driver... Serato?
djcerla 7:38 PM - 25 February, 2010
Hi Luku,

have u tried to downgrade?
Luku 7:47 PM - 25 February, 2010
No... but Serato said not to use 1.6.4 driver under Snow Leopard, no?
Only 2.0.2 driver is certified for Snow Leopard.
djcerla 7:48 PM - 25 February, 2010
2.0.2. is certified, but crashing

1.6.4 is not certified but it works AFAIK
Luku 7:49 PM - 25 February, 2010
Hmm... Serato should give us an answer here then... Thanks for the info cerla!
CAW 7:57 PM - 25 February, 2010
@djceria: My experiences with 1.6.4 on Snow Leopard are two-fold:

1) Random kernel panics when connecting/disconnecting the NS7 (regardless of ITCH running at the time or not.) The dump report OSX shows after rebooting always shows that it died in the NS7 USB Audio Driver.
2) 1.6.4 does not show up in Core Audio, so you cannot use other applications and have them output through the NS7's soundcard.
Luku 8:00 PM - 25 February, 2010
Thanks CAW... this is sad news... it means that we have to wait for an updated driver for Snow Leopard :( I hope Serato can fix this bug FAAAST!
CAW 8:02 PM - 25 February, 2010
Technically the driver is from Numark, not Serato. Serato just bundles it in the ITCH installer package. (And based on strings'ing it, Numark outsourced the driver to another company. I'm at work now, so can't check the actual company name.)
djcerla 8:02 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:
1) Random kernel panics when connecting/disconnecting the NS7 (regardless of ITCH running at the time or not


not happened yet... however this wouldn't be a major problem

Quote:
2) 1.6.4 does not show up in Core Audio, so you cannot use other applications and have them output through the NS7's soundcard.


confirmed... however I can trade this with AAC stability.
Serato
Dylan W 9:09 PM - 25 February, 2010
Hey Guys,

You're correct that we don't write the driver for NS7, this comes from Numark. We can however work with them to correct this problem ASAP.

Zeb can chime in and give you a run down of what to expect using the 1.6.4 driver with snowleopard as we have done fairly extensive testing on the matter.

Cheers
dylan.
Serato
Dylan W 9:11 PM - 25 February, 2010
PS.

Thanks for all your hard work looking into this problem guys, we have been trying to reproduce on our machines here but have been unsuccessful so far.
I'll direct numark to this thread for info.
Serato
Zeb 10:37 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:

1) Random kernel panics when connecting/disconnecting the NS7 (regardless of ITCH running at the time or not.) The dump report OSX shows after rebooting always shows that it died in the NS7 USB Audio Driver.


I have never had a kernel panic with the 1.6.4 driver on either my black Macbook or aluminum Macbook, both running Snow Leopard.

Quote:

2) 1.6.4 does not show up in Core Audio, so you cannot use other applications and have them output through the NS7's soundcard.


This is the only issue I can verify.

I have done significant testing with the NS7, using driver version 1.6.4 on Snow Leopard & have had no stability issues with ITCH what so ever but I also can't reproduce this AAC issue using driver version 2.0.2 either.
CAW 5:52 PM - 27 February, 2010
I've been trying to reproduce this with 2.0.2 on my MBP running 10.6.2, and I can't make it happen. I've tried going from MP3 (including Whitelabel.net stuff), WAV, and AAC from one deck to an AAC on the other deck and nada. I can switch to any AAC in my library without issue.

FWIW: The majority of my AACs I have ripped myself from CDs, at 320k using iTunes. I also have a handful of purchased iTunes AAC tracks at 256k.

Another thought is that maybe upgrading from 1.6.4 to 2.0.2 causes the problem. When I was having problems with the ITCH 1.5 betas retroing the driver back to 1.6.4, I would run the driver uninstaller in the DMG provided by Numark before installing the new driver. Thus, all traces of 1.6.4 are gone from my system. I don't know if the ITCH 1.5 installer does the same, or just overwrites with the new driver and so some old piece is getting left behind that is causing the problem?

The Numark V7 driver is also 2.0.2. (And there is no older version for the V7 as far as I am aware.) Has anyone got a V7 yet, and if so, can they reproduce this problem with AACs?
CAW 7:26 PM - 27 February, 2010
Also, for the people experiencing this: have you checked the kernel.log with Console.app to see if the Numark driver is logging any error messages when this occurs?
djcerla 12:24 PM - 28 February, 2010
More testing.

Just uninstalled driver 1.6.4, re-installed driver 2.0.2 ---> bug is BACK! as usual switching the USB port, or plugging in my Apogee Symphony Mobile PCMCIA card solves it.

Then, uninstalled driver 2.0.2 and re-installed 1.6.4 (this time I got no error message from the Installer) ---> all perfect with AACs like in good ol' days.

I strongly suggest everyone having issues with AAcs (iTunes Store format) to uninstall 2.0.2 and stick with 1.6.4 (you can download it here www.numark.com)
YESWEDJ.COM 2:08 PM - 28 February, 2010
Used The updated ITCH a couple of Nights ago and while people where dancing.
I decided to load a new song and BOOOOOOMMMMMM the music stopped playing. I got Boooosss and Bunch of tomatoes... There is a Bug on the latest version of itch because I realize the song I downloaded was the one that created the crash.... I analyze the file and it was not corrupted. I had to re-boot and after the night was over I tried playing the same song back and the system crashed on me again. This morning I started playing with different types of songs and every 75 songs there will be one particular song that will make the system crash......
djcerla 2:13 PM - 28 February, 2010
@ YESWEDJ.COM

I already asked with no reply from you: what kind of song crashed the system? An iTunes song?
YESWEDJ.COM 2:14 PM - 28 February, 2010
I know it is not a corrupt file since I went back and analized the song. it will play on another computer that still has itch 1.1...... Again, while i had A Playing I will try loading song B to have it cue and played. Automatically when I downloaded the song B the whole system will stop playing. Even when I am not tryiing to have song B Playing yet but just trying to load the song to cue it. It does not crash or freeze, the sound simply stops playing and now it does not matter if you try playing any other song but that particular song. Again, I had to force close itch and I re-open and when I try playing the song again boom the whole system stops playing. This is a Big problem because now I do not know how many songs like this one will crash my system. I think the song is a AAC File.... I have to check.... But Again, never had this issue with Itch 1.1
YESWEDJ.COM 2:18 PM - 28 February, 2010
Quote:
@ YESWEDJ.COM

I already asked with no reply from you: what kind of song crashed the system? An iTunes song?


I am sorry Djcerla, I did not notice you asked me about the song. thanks for helping. But it is not a Itune Song.... I have all my music organized via Itunes... I do not use creates and so on.... I have all my music install on a external Hard Drive. I never buy any songs from Itunes... It is mainly promo only songs... I was playing at this party.
YESWEDJ.COM 2:20 PM - 28 February, 2010
By the way Djcerla, I remember asking if I had to Delete the current drivers first and then Re-Install..... ????
djcerla 2:20 PM - 28 February, 2010
Quote:
It does not crash or freeze, the sound simply stops playing and now it does not matter if you try playing any other song but that particular song. Again, I had to force close itch and I re-open and when I try playing the song again boom the whole system stops playing


Looks like you are experiencing the 2.0.2 Bug. In this case, even reloading 1.1 should crash the output, as the problem is in the driver, not in the ITCH application.

Just downgrade to 1.6.4 here www.numark.com and report back.
YESWEDJ.COM 2:20 PM - 28 February, 2010
By the way Djcerla, I remember asking if I had to Delete the current drivers first and then Re-Install..... ????
YESWEDJ.COM 2:23 PM - 28 February, 2010
Cool, Again, Should first Delete manually the current Driver and then Re-install the 1.6.4?

Thanks for the help....
Djcarrero
djcerla 2:23 PM - 28 February, 2010
Yes, delete it using the uninstaller that comes with 1.6.4, then restart your Mac, install 1.6.4, restart again and test the problematic song again, switching both USB ports (the bug may be related to the port you're using).
djcerla 2:24 PM - 28 February, 2010
NOT manually...
YESWEDJ.COM 2:30 PM - 28 February, 2010
Great info....

I do not have the NS7 connect while I re-instal,

Does it matter If Re-install the driver without having the NS7 connected?
djcerla 2:35 PM - 28 February, 2010
When I reinstalled, my NS7 was switched off.
YESWEDJ.COM 2:36 PM - 28 February, 2010
Great Thanks man really appreciated...
I will try doing that....
kraal 3:19 PM - 28 February, 2010
not being sarcastic here but i a pulling for YESWEDJ to get his ns7 up and running he has been frustrated far to long..... can't wait till he is on the fan club band wagon
YESWEDJ.COM 4:36 PM - 28 February, 2010
Thanks Kraal,

I have to say you guys (Djcerla, Kraal, Djquartz) have been very helpful and with a lot of patience. I look forward to it....
Luku 5:52 PM - 8 March, 2010
Numark, Serato, any news on an updated driver?? This is URGENT.
djcerla 11:18 PM - 8 March, 2010
hi Luku,

as a workaround, I have reinstalled the 1.6.4 driver; now it's all flawless, except the fact that on Snow Leopard I can't use the NS7 as a soundcard for 3rd party software.

I've also converted all my AACs to WAVs just in case, and re-fixed the cue points. Not going to use AACs anymore, I'm converting everything as soon as it's downloaded from iTunes.
Luku 10:28 AM - 9 March, 2010
Hi djcerla,

Thanks for the tip. An official way would be better though, as I want to be able to use NS7 as a sound card :(
djcerla 10:34 AM - 9 March, 2010
Quote:
I want to be able to use NS7 as a sound card :(


As a side note, Logic Pro DOES recognize and use the NS7 as a sound card; it simply doesn't show up in the OSX Audio Midi setup utility (i.e. you can't use it as the system out).
Luku 7:34 PM - 22 March, 2010
Can Numark/Serato team chime in and tell us when to expect updated 2.x.x driver for AAC compatibility under Mac OS X10.6.2? I don't want to install 1.6.4 driver as a semi/temporary solution. I want Snow Leopard certified driver. This is REALLY important and needed!! Please, give is some update on the status...
Dj Bacik 7:44 PM - 3 April, 2010
So I have been using the 2.0.2 drivers flawlessly for a long time now. Then all of a sudden BAM! I got hit with the aac bug. I never had this problem before. All the songs that crash are songs that have played perfectly before. The only thing that changed is that I created a new playlist in Itunes. So maybe the xml got messed up. But when I downgraded the driver everything worked perfectly.
djcerla 3:21 AM - 4 April, 2010
Have you tried to switch USB port before downgrading? Same result?
Dj Bacik 12:24 PM - 4 April, 2010
Yeah, I did everything. When I did the switch port the music came back and only play/pause/cue worked on the NS7. I had to restart itch for platter control. I just don't get how this can happen just out of the blue. It was working fine.
djcerla 1:24 PM - 4 April, 2010
@ Dj Bacik

same here... to worsen things, the problem doesn't arise when my Apogee PCMCIA card is plugged in, so I had no way to discover the bug in my studio.
Serato
Dylan W 5:03 AM - 7 April, 2010
Hey Guys,

Just a note to let you know we are still looking into this. I've spent a few hours this afternoon trying to reproduce it on a couple of different machines. We've also had the developers and other test guys try this on their machines but to no avail, we're just not able to make the 2.0.2 driver misbehave with AAC here for us.

So, what we need is more information from anyone effected by this issue so we can try and figure out what the thing that your systems have in common other than the 2.0.2 driver and AAC files. If we can reproduce this issue then we have a shot at fixing it but until we can make it happen we're in the dark a bit.

I'd ask that anyone that can upload us their system profile. I've started a help request so you can upload them in one place here www.serato.com

To save a system profile go apple>about this mac>more info

Once the system profiler starts shoose file>save as to save an XML version of your system profile. Once you have it upload it to the help thread above.

We appreciate your effort and hope we can resolve this issue for you soon.
Thanks
Dylan.
Dudu P 7:38 AM - 10 April, 2010
Hi!

I've just came home from a gig, and I'm *so* disappointed because of this bug. I'm a long time user, and ScratchLive never failed me before, neither Itch. However, this night I simply couldn't load any AAC files on my MacBook (current policarbonate unibody model, with 4gb ram). Every time I would try to load an AAC file, Itch sound would die on me, exactly like the OP described.

I'm running Serato Itch 1.5.0 (15047) and the 2.0.2 NS7 drivers on a Mac OS X 10.6.3

I've used this very same MacBook successfully tons of times, like last week, without any hassles. After reading the previous posts, I can fully reproduce the bug if I use the USB port which is closest to the magsafe connector. The problem won't happen if I use the farthest USB port (the one adjacent to the headphone jack).

I'll upload my system profile on the other thread, but I must confess I'm really worried about this.

Thanks in advance!
djcerla 9:00 AM - 10 April, 2010
Hi,

as a workaround, reinstall driver 1.6.4, it won't crash anymore

however I have heard that Serato has a fix for this in the next version
Kmxorbit 11:50 AM - 10 April, 2010
@ Dudu P:
Small question:
Did you change the output settings of your sound on your mac somehow?
I mean, did you change for one reason or another your output from internal speakers to NS7 output drivers in the settings panel?
Dudu P 11:25 PM - 10 April, 2010
@djcerla
I think I'll wait for a fix, since this happened only with my work laptop. And from now on I'll convert all my AAC files to CBR MP3s. So much for iTunes LP, tho'… :(


@Kmxorbit
I haven't change anything, 100% sure.

This happened with my work MacBook, which I used for DJing about half a dozen times at most. My main DJing machine is a 2.13ghz SSD MacBook Air, and I've never ran into any issues before.

I strongly believe this is related to "bad" USB ports. Most likely I've unconsciously used the right USB port (the farthest from the screen) all other times, and last night I probably insisted with the wrong one. TBH I didn't new that current (Nvidia) MacBooks had those USB issues anymore, I thought this was something from the past times when Apple used Intel chipsets. Seems to me that maybe current MCP chipsets are still affected by these "good x bad" USBs.

And probably I've never noticed anything before because the MacBook Air has only one USB port, and a very good one, capable of running the external Superdrive with no additional power, or the NS7 thru the ports on a Apple wired keyboard with no glitches.


since the MacBook Air has
Dudu P 11:27 PM - 10 April, 2010
"since the MacBook Air has" -- whoops! a half sentence I've left out. Sorry! :P
Kmxorbit 7:04 AM - 11 April, 2010
Can you please check the following:
you most probably can reproduce the bug when you change the output setting from internal speaker to ns7 output. If you select the internal speakers again the problem should be resolved.
Can you check if this works for you?

Fyi: i've got the exact same problem with the usb port furthest from the screen with my v7's. So, I'm not sure if this problem is usb port related. I think it's sounddriver related.
Dj Bacik 1:38 PM - 11 April, 2010
Not sure what causes it. I updated to itunes 9.1 and rebuilt my itch database. Now everything works fine. There is a slight hesitation when loading an acc file, but otherwise its fine.
Kmxorbit 1:46 PM - 11 April, 2010
Nobody knows exactly what causes it.
Might be a sound driver problem might be something else.
personally I don't think your problem is resolved. As far as I know, It does not affect all your USB ports either...

best way to test is trying to reproduce this behaviour like I describe it above.
Dudu P 12:08 AM - 12 April, 2010
Quote:
Can you please check the following:
you most probably can reproduce the bug when you change the output setting from internal speaker to ns7 output. If you select the internal speakers again the problem should be resolved.
Can you check if this works for you?


You're right, I think it might not be USB port related (even though previously it would only happen to the one closest to the display).

In my system, if I change the Sound Device on System Preferences from Internal Speakers to NS7 while playing mp3 files, everything's normal. Audio will keep on playing and I'm still able to scratch it.

However, if I do the same while playing an AAC file, the NS7/ITCH will go mute the moment I switch to NS7 as a sound output device, and the virtual decks will stop spinning and reset to 12 o'clock, and the zoomed waveform will disappear. I can try loading new tracks, either aac or mp3, it won't matter. Device is dead.

Switching back to Internal Speakers won't solve the problem until I quit and start ITCH again.

I've tried starting ITCH with the NS7 already setup as the default audio device. It loads mp3 files and behaves normally until I load up an aac file.

So maybe last friday what happened to me is that OS X was automatically assigning NS7 as the default audio device the moment I plugged it in. I know that OS X isn't supposed to do that, but who knows.

Anyway, we do have a driver issue in here, that's a fact. Even if it's the default audio device, it should play aac files as it does with regular mp3s.
Dudu P 12:29 AM - 12 April, 2010
Very same behavior on my MacBook Air, which never had any issues before.
Serato
Dylan W 3:12 AM - 12 April, 2010
Hey Guys,

We think we have reproduced this issue in house, it does seem to be related to using the NS7 as a system sound device and with ITCH at the same time. Thanks for all your input, it took us a while to track this one down. Special thanks to those who uploaded system profiles.

We're working on a fix and will let you know as soon as it's available for beta.

Thanks
Dylan.
Dj Bacik 7:01 PM - 12 April, 2010
Sweet! So is it just don't use the NS7 as a sound device to keep this from happening for now?
Kmxorbit 7:15 PM - 12 April, 2010
Quote:
Sweet! So is it just don't use the NS7 as a sound device to keep this from happening for now?

That's the way to avoid this bug, as far as I know...
CAW 1:27 AM - 13 April, 2010
I guess the question is, is it only an issue with setting the system sound device to point at the NS7 while running ITCH, or is it pointing ANY other app to the NS7 at the same time? (E.g., having system sounds go through default internal speakers, but point Ableton or a one-shotter like Battery/Soundboard/Kueit to the NS7 while using ITCH.)