Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

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 Serato DJ Pro General Discussion
Laptop Recommendations
Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

Laptop Recommendations

maestromind 6:45 PM - 14 September, 2009
Now that my faith in my laptop is gone (please see the Hard Drive Horror Story thread) I'm thinking about getting something new. I'd like to get a computer that can run ITCH at 2ms without any hiccups (and I assume that when FX come out even more power will be required). It also has to run Photoshop, Flash and other power-hungry creative apps (my current traitorous laptop has been set up strictly for ITCH ). It also has to be able to withstand normal use (see above).

My guess is that the overwhelming consensus here will be to get a Mac. As I've always been a PC this is a new area to me and I'd love to hear your experiences on running ITCH on Macbooks that are used for your everyday life as well. Most importantly have you ever run into any performance issues running ITCH on a laptop that has lots of other programs (obviously not all running at the same time)? Do Macs manage resources as well as everyone says they do? The reason my VAIO is used strictly for ITCH is because many Windows programs eat up some resources even when they're not running.

Thanks a lot for all your help!
kraal 7:15 PM - 14 September, 2009
ok i will say this a macbook or mackbook pro will run all you are asking but i would get a seperate computer for your photoshop stuff and for djing
i use photoshop and other illustration and animation software ... it bogs down your computer with constant writing on moving of files
maestromind 7:25 PM - 14 September, 2009
In an ideal world I definitely would, and right now I do most of my photo editing on a desktop, but I want to be able to take one laptop with me when I travel that can do everything as well. The main problem with a PC is if, for example, I install a driver for my graphics tablet then it will always be present at start up and hog resources even when I don't need it.
One thing I'm thinking of doing though is getting an SSD in the macbook for all the apps and then having my music on one external HD and my photoshop/etc files on another HD.
kraal 7:31 PM - 14 September, 2009
like i said it will work the only thing i suggest is keep a program like disk warrior to keep you HD optimized
now the question as to what to get is 'what do you want to spend?
maestromind 7:36 PM - 14 September, 2009
I think $2K would be my limit, seeing as bargain and Mac don't usually go together.
If I go to the apple store it looks like that either gets me a 2.53Ghz MBP with an SSD or a 2.6Ghz MBP with the dual graphics. Are there any other options I should explore?
kraal 7:38 PM - 14 September, 2009
either of those will work :)
sometimes the apple store has 'older models' still in the back so you may ask and you can get those for cheaper.
maestromind 7:49 PM - 14 September, 2009
Will an older MBP still run everything fine? I have no problems about going under budget ;)
kraal 7:52 PM - 14 September, 2009
i run photoshop fine on a macbook (non pro)
kraal 7:53 PM - 14 September, 2009
so an old macbook pro should be fine
casket hands 8:05 PM - 14 September, 2009
Just to elaborate on the other side of the coin for a moment I have an asus f6v a1 that I bought last year for all the purposes that you listed. I run it full time as my everything computer. Photoshop, games, websurfing,anything and everything. I should add that I'm a very tidy user, never had any spyware or viruses on this or my previous rig. It's got a 2.5 ghz p8600 chip, 4gigs of 800 MHz ram and it still runs like the day I got it. Itch runs at 2ms and I've never had dropouts or glitches. It Came with a 1 year unconditional replacement warranty as well which I haven't used but is nice to have with all the fools at the bar getting their noses in my business. There was very little bloatware I had to remove from the system and everything has been super quick from day 1.
kraal 8:13 PM - 14 September, 2009
casket hands have you ever used photoshop on a mac.... now i am not starting the mac vs pc war i am just asking quite simply cause i use photoshop to bring in an income and have been to other design studios that use pc set ups and my photoshop on my mac runs faster and smoother.
now the reason i am asking you is because you have a working system so that would be the best comparison .
casket hands 8:19 PM - 14 September, 2009
yup, I have used it on a macbook pro, last years, and yes it was very smooth. I cant quantify the degree to which it was better than a PC but theres no doubt that a brand new mac will have no problem with it. However, the smoothness was lost on me because I found the program so incredibly frustrating to use without the ability to right click with the mouse alone.
kraal 8:21 PM - 14 September, 2009
yeah i got a two button mouce for my mac :)
DJdaveZ 5:09 AM - 15 September, 2009
i had itch running on at 1ms my macbook pro 1.1 and it was the 2.0 core duo 2 gb ram.. everything is newer than that in subsequent MBP models. so basically anything with the macbook pro name on it will run itch at 1ms.
Dj Beware 7:58 AM - 15 September, 2009
@maestromind

To resolve you issue buy the Mac you pointed out in your earlier post that is within your budget, and run bootcamp. Since your use to the PC world make you OXS partition smaller and install ITCH and only use it for music you'll be able to comfortably run at 1ms latendy :)

Then use your Windows partition for your graphics world. If you want get Paralells or Vmware Fusion and you can even boot into windows while your on the OSX side from your bootcamp partition. The macbook pro hardware runs any version of windows whether its XP, Vista or 7 very well.

This way you can also ease yourself into the MAC world and I bet in a year or you will gradually make your windows partition smaller and smaller and start moving your software to the MAC side, as it is IMHO such a joy to use especially when using graphics programs like photoshop with a 2 button mouse of course....... :)

just my 2cents
casket hands 8:04 AM - 15 September, 2009
I would say generally the trouble with the switch to a mac isnt the desire to cling to windows, its the cost.
Dj Beware 8:08 AM - 15 September, 2009
You get what you pay for....
casket hands 8:27 AM - 15 September, 2009
I think you misunderstand, those considering switching to a mac usually have the hardest time reconciling the price, not the OS. I think we can all agree that being gifted a mac would be glorious, but money doesnt grow on trees, and thus, a mac is not the magical perfect solution.
Dj Beware 8:45 AM - 15 September, 2009
Not that I am arguing with you but maestromind stated his budget was 2k which is what my answer is based upon...........so actually respectfully I think you misunderstood.

In fact if I were to spend 2k tomorrow on a computer I would definitely go with the suggestion I proposed and not any windows PC for the purpose of ITCH.

Furthermore maestromind can go with the the entry level 13" Macbook Pro and still accomplish what he wants for 1199 +tax and money left over for the effects unit when it comes out.......and of course a good bluetooth multi button mouse.......and a nice monitor for when he/she wants to connect the laptop at home when doing graphics....
djcerla 8:46 AM - 15 September, 2009
There are some surprises when comparing the TCO Total Cost of Ownership of a Mac vs. PC. Retail price of course is easier to compare but things like antiviruses, downtimes and reselling price of the used machine must be factored in a conscious buying decision. Macs have by far the highest consumer satisfaction rate in ANY industry for a reason.

If money is the issue, look for a 1year old used mbp instead of a brand new Vista PC, that's my 0.02.
Dj Beware 8:53 AM - 15 September, 2009
Or a refurbished or reconditioned MBP directly from Apple....I have purchased 3 MBP's this way and never had a single issue...
casket hands 9:18 AM - 15 September, 2009
for me TCO with my asus
downtime: $0
antivirus software : $0
resale value: irrelevant

I agree, macs are very nice computers, but the issue is rarely the OS, its more often the cost.
casket hands 9:20 AM - 15 September, 2009
when I was shopping I was comparing a $1400 machine to a $2800 machine for reference. the OS never came into it.
casket hands 9:24 AM - 15 September, 2009
anyways, this will probably turn into a pissing contest but my point was merely, if you buy a mac to run itch, forget about windows. its two steps left and one step right. may as well stay left.
djcerla 9:53 AM - 15 September, 2009
Quote:
resale value: irrelevant


Irrelevant to you, of course, as it's near zero. That's exactly my point.

Also, a $999 Macbook is perfect for ITCH, why do you talk about 17", $2800 powerhouses?

The hi-end Macs are expensive, it's called market segmentation, as they have bigger margins on machines aimed to professionals (like the 17" 3.06 GHz you talked about). Basic Macs, as opposite, are GREAT VALUE.

Last, ITCH 1.1 is optimized for Macs, and runs 30% more efficiently than on Windows.
casket hands 9:54 AM - 15 September, 2009
I have never and will never sell a computer.
casket hands 9:57 AM - 15 September, 2009
and the comparison I was making was last fall and was based on similar features like CPU RAM, video card and hard drive. I understand your point and I am fully on board that macs are more than capable. I have personally never been able to justify the cost.
djcerla 9:58 AM - 15 September, 2009
This doesn't mean others will never sell a computer.

Take a look at the used macs prices here: www.macexchange.it, it's a specialized Italian site.

I've sold 3 Macs there, it took one week on average. Why waste money?
djcerla 10:00 AM - 15 September, 2009
If you take a close look to the resale prices, you'll understand that (basic) Macs are inexpensive.
casket hands 10:08 AM - 15 September, 2009
right, and a comparable pc would be even cheaper respectively. FWIW my laptop looks to be selling for about $800 on craigslist
www.google.com
djcerla 10:11 AM - 15 September, 2009
... page not found :)

BTW you get that kind of value collapse in 2.5 years on Macbooks, not 6 months.
casket hands 10:14 AM - 15 September, 2009
so had I purchased the MBP last year for $2800 it would be worth $2200 in 2.5 years?
casket hands 10:16 AM - 15 September, 2009
forums.macrumors.com
djcerla 10:16 AM - 15 September, 2009
Man, I've clearly stated BASIC macbooks.

Quote:
The hi-end Macs are expensive, it's called market segmentation, as they have bigger margins on machines aimed to professionals (like the 17" 3.06 GHz you talked about). Basic Macs, as opposite, are GREAT VALUE.


Quote:
you'll understand that (basic) Macs are inexpensive.
casket hands 10:18 AM - 15 September, 2009
so I wouldve lost out had I bought an expensive mac? the argument is a bit of straw man. but this is all a very circuitous way of saying, if you can justify the cost of the mac you want, GET ONE! if not dont.
djcerla 10:25 AM - 15 September, 2009
First off, you are totally OUT as far as math is concerned.

1400-800=600 loss on your computer, or roughly 42%
2800-2200=600 supposed loss on the mac, or roughly 21%

do you have an idea of what a percentage is? you can't simply subtract $600.

second, our topic is DJing. I don't want to demostrate that Macs are ALWAYS the best bang for the bucks (servers or parallel computing are examples), but my humble opinion is that, for ITCH use, a basic macbook or MBP is DEFINITELY the best value you can get vs. performance and stability.
casket hands 10:28 AM - 15 September, 2009
well last time I checked my paycheque they pay me in dollars not in percentages.
casket hands 10:29 AM - 15 September, 2009
I'd say the MBP is an easy pick if you can afford it, but the best value I disagree with.
djcerla 10:37 AM - 15 September, 2009
OK casket hands, I give up, maybe I don't get Hawaian humour.

There are enough data and comments in this discussion to let anyone form his own idea on the topic, though.
casket hands 10:40 AM - 15 September, 2009
nothing personal cerla, I respect you a whole lot, just trying to fill out both sides of the decision.
now lets never speak of this again :D
marcA 10:52 AM - 15 September, 2009
colours and taste...
no doubt that mac will run itch+hardware better, otherwise the serato guys wouldn't recommend it over a windows based machine...
but if you don't like the feel and use of a Mac then why go there...the soft + hardware is stated to run on windows machines also...
and i'm to am struggling to get my dell machine which meets the minimal requirements up and running..why..cause windows/drivers think they know what is the best hardware config settings...and that's probably better handled on the mac...
so it aint better value but targeted for different uses i guess, mac has always been a platform for music and graphical stuff, so i'm not surprised it handles real time streaming better...
but still i aint gonna buy a mac cause i'm not fond of it nor can i run the soft i want to run on a daily basis..

my .02$ :)
cu
marc
kraal 2:31 PM - 15 September, 2009
i want to add to this. IF you det a mac and plan to run everything in boot camp dont waste your time or money get a good pc.

as far as the re-sale value being a selling point do factor that too much in your decision either. You can only sell it for what some one will pay.

like stated by others on the oposite side. I have nothing but macs (never sold and old one usally used the parts for something or run them till they are broke ) I use macs cause all my software are mac based
maestromind 3:09 PM - 15 September, 2009
Don't want to throw any fuel on a fire here, but did you guys see HP's Envy 15 announcement today?
gizmodo.com
It's like an ugly MBP clone on the outside (personally, I really loved the original Envy 133's edgy carbon design and have no idea why they wouldn't keep it), but inside it has some pretty amazing power - i7 CPU, dual SSDs in Raid 0, up to 16GB DDR3 (in 4 slots, and only one is filled from the factory) and a standard 1GB discrete VRAM. Does get negative points for a "Beats by Dre" internal sound card and that hideous laser etched case design though. Starts at $1800, but obviously the SSDs will jack that up by a lot. I gotta say though, having an SSD for apps and a second 7200 RPM 500GB HD for music and files would be pretty stellar.
Anybody know when Apple is announcing the next round of MBPs?
kraal 3:25 PM - 15 September, 2009
a apple rip off called ;envy; now that's funny. one can only hope the os holds up on it... remember with mac it isnt just hardware
djcerla 3:25 PM - 15 September, 2009
Quote:

Anybody know when Apple is announcing the next round of MBPs?


They've just made an important upgrade (sealed, long-life battery, price cuts). MBPs are in mid-product cycle guides.macrumors.com(time-ordered)

Next big thing will be the Apple Tablet (iPAd?) towards February, 2010.
maestromind 4:09 PM - 15 September, 2009
Quote:
a apple rip off called ;envy; now that's funny. one can only hope the os holds up on it... remember with mac it isnt just hardware


I know, the irony isn't lost on me at all. I also feel 100% what you're saying about the OS. Apple's strategy is definitely to sell the hardware at a higher margin by putting out great software. Windows computers sell the software by discounting the hardware that is nominally more powerful than a comparably priced Mac. Ultimately, if ITCH will run at 1ms on a 1.8Ghz Macbook with 2GB of RAM when my current laptop has 3GB of DDR3 and a 2.4Ghz CPU but can't handle anything <5ms then I don't care about it seeming more powerful.

After using Windows since 3.11 I don't have that much faith in the OS, frankly. On the other hand, I've never spent a lot of time with a Mac either. Maybe the best thing would be if ITCH ran in Linux - someone could tweak it so it'd be a bespoke DJ distribution... Of course OS X is Linux-based, as I recall...
kraal 4:13 PM - 15 September, 2009
yup
djcerla 4:17 PM - 15 September, 2009
OSX is UNIX-based, like Linux.
djcerla 4:25 PM - 15 September, 2009
@ maestromind

news (actually rumors) for you: blogs.barrons.com
maestromind 4:38 PM - 15 September, 2009
Quote:
@ maestromind

news (actually rumors) for you: blogs.barrons.com


Thanks - it does make sense that they'd do a price cut right before the Win7 release time. Sort of how they unveiled that Bluetooth 2.0 is on the iPhone, after all, and did the 3.0 OS upgrade right when the Palm Pre was about to ship.
marcA 6:22 PM - 15 September, 2009
hi maestromind,
if you do want to go down the ssd lane than make *sure* that you use the ssd to put your music on and the os on the regular harddisk!
not the other way around
ssd is fabulous for reading data, not so fabulous for writing...
cu
marc
maestromind 6:35 PM - 15 September, 2009
I actually didn't think about that - thanks marcA!
Dj Beware 10:59 PM - 15 September, 2009
I actually wished the 13" MacbookPro's had external DVD drive's as well I used my DVD drive in my Macbook Pro maybe 10 times in the last year or so, and its always been at home, so an external DVD and placing the a second HDD so I don't need to use a external HDD in my MacBook Pro would make me a VERY VERY happy camper.
maestromind 7:37 PM - 16 September, 2009
Another pretty badass PC laptop I've found is the ThinkPad W700ds.
bit.ly
I've used ThinkPads at work and they are very solid computers, and can stand up to a lot of abuse. This one has some pretty unique features - namely a built-in Wacom digitizer and a 10" pullout second screen. Depending on how ITCH 2.0 works it'd definitely be sweet to move the FX to the second screen, keeping the main screen for waveform and track views. It also supports RAID and SSDs and even offers a Quad-core 2.53Ghz CPU, although then we get into the $3k range...