Serato Software Feature Suggestions

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 Serato Software Feature Suggestions
Dynamic library tool - meet the "Shrink".
What features would you like to see in Serato software?

Dynamic library tool - meet the "Shrink".

DJwhizkid 7:36 AM - 2 December, 2014
The more options you have the more complex life tends to be - So lets take care of it.

Ok so you're playing a track with serato, and you think what will be the next one to mix - That happens quiet a lot, ah? :)
With "Shrink" ,the new tool for dynamic library arrangement, its gonna be much easier.
Shrink let you filter your serato library by custom settings of your choice.

This is how it works:
Lets say you're current song is a progressive house in 128 BPM in the key of A minor.
You want the next track to be also a progressive house in BPM range of +/-5% and in key of A minor/ C major or its harmonic keys - E minor, F minor. Well how do you do that - Smart crate? Well you're not gonna make a crate for every song, right? Thats exactly the what Shrink does for you.

Shrink shows you only the songs which fit your settings and hide all the rest - what makes it much more simpler to make your next decision .

Now, the beauty of it is the fact that its dynamic - meaning it changes by the current track you're playing. When you load your next track it "shrink" your library by the new track info and by your setting of filtering.

To make it work All you need to do is to set your "sensitivity settings" - BPM range in percentage from the current track (0-100%), Key - Same/Harmonic/None, Genre- Same/close/none etc...

You can also save 4 profiles of different settings and activate the one you need.
for example:
Profile 1 only have BPM filtering.
Profile 2 have BPM and genre
Profile 3 have BPM, genre and key settings.
Profile 4 have only Genre settings.

Now when you play you can choose which profile will filter your library.
If you want to see all the library again - just turn Shrink off.


What do you think?
Riko Roos 12:02 PM - 2 December, 2014
Sounds cool and helpful.

The BPM range could be set automatically by the current pitch-range. It's necessary that it works in the current crate only (incluging sub-crates if enabled in setup).

For me a single profile with key and bpm would work... Now let's collect some +1s here ;]
DJwhizkid 12:38 PM - 2 December, 2014
Thanx

3 things:

- I think that the pitch range can be too wide to be set automatically by the deck pitch settings the (8% difference for example can be too much for some).

- You're right it should operate on the chosen crate.

- As i see different profiles can be useful to switch quickly for different "mixing scenarios/situation". For example, when mixing hip-hop or progressive house or "warm up elevator music" the quick profiles recall can be helpful to fit the filtering of the library to the mixing style "needed".

And yeah, let's collect em all :)
DJ Demolition 1:50 AM - 4 December, 2014
A very useful idea. Should be very easy for Serato to implement. Maybe you should be working there..?
DJwhizkid 2:27 AM - 4 December, 2014
Thanks, I hope serato guys will find it useful as well. And i prefer producing and playing :)
DJ Compiler 2:47 AM - 4 December, 2014
+1 awesome idea. I've been wanting a tool like this for a while and I think you described it beautifully.
Mr Wilks 4:00 AM - 4 December, 2014
This gets a +1 from me.

I've found there's always room for little library improvements and this would help marrow down the better tracks out there.

I play mixed genre clubs and carry 30,000 tracks from 'build me up buttercup' to 'bangarang' so to be able to filter live and dynamically around a said track would be great.

I wouldn't want it to suggest tracks for me but I'd like it to filter out the tracks I don't need. I love this idea.
Djkom 9:20 AM - 4 December, 2014
In fact, all you want is a powerful search which can be static or dynamic (dynamic in your case).
Looks great in the paper but I can't see a clean and simple UI to do it :( and see it activated or not...
maybe if you can draw a mock up UI, it will help us (me at least) ...
DJwhizkid 11:11 AM - 4 December, 2014
I will try to describe it the way i see it…
There should be 2 different sections:
Settings section - where you set the profiles.
Choosing filter profile section - where you choose the profile of which the library will be filtered by.

There stetting section button can be in:
- the settings screen--> Library panel-->Shrink settings button.
Or
Next to the :Files ,Browse, History, Prepare buttons above the library.

When you press it a new window opens with 4 labels for each Shrink profile.
When you choose Profile a for example a window with settings appears.
In that window you set however you like this profile to filter your Library.

In order to actually enable it and choose the wanted profile to filter by you simply press on one of 5 small buttons beneath the library : A, B, C,D, OFF.
These buttons can be even in pop-up menu under a "Shrink profiles" button beneath or above the library screen.

Well it docent have to work exactly like that, but this is one example.
DJ_Jayzon 1:17 PM - 4 December, 2014
+1

It would be neat if more parameters could be considered, based on selected metadata since everyone has their own way of tagging files and also play history.

Songs that have previously been played in the same set, or within a range of a given number of songs in a set.

Basically take any given data and have songs relate to each other in various ways.

One problem though, what if you are playing more than one song and want to do a related search, which song will be the "master"?
DJwhizkid 2:27 PM - 4 December, 2014
I think the master song should be the last one loaded. In most cases it will do it.
Maybe there should be an option to toggle between decks to select to "master".
ekalb 4:14 PM - 4 December, 2014
www.mixshare.com

This is what I use to create my harmonic mixes
DJ Demolition 5:20 PM - 4 December, 2014
Quote:
www.mixshare.com

This is what I use to create my harmonic mixes

Thanks for sharing.
Mr Wilks 8:36 PM - 4 December, 2014
What if the library could follow smart crate rules?

Have a extra option next to the search bar you could check and a predefined rule (or rules) are applied to the search.

Smart crates have options that we'd want so would be a quick way of implementing it by adding the library to a rule.
DJwhizkid 2:01 AM - 5 December, 2014
Yeah thats the point, to make some rules that will define the different filtering profiles.
OlliC 12:34 PM - 7 December, 2014
+1
F#M 1:17 PM - 9 December, 2014
+1
DJ Frustro 3:03 PM - 9 December, 2014
+1 for Shrink
Serato, Support
Martin C 10:01 PM - 9 December, 2014
Sounds rad to me. From what I understand, when you have this option enabled you'd not be able to see all your library, just what meets the criteria of "shrink". Of course this is kind of the point, to minimise your selection to make it easier.

It might be worth keeping in mind that an additional option for the feature could be to still show all files but somehow highlight the ones that meet shrinks criteria.

This means you could still stray from shrinks selection if you wanted to.
DJwhizkid 10:09 PM - 9 December, 2014
I see what you mean, highlight the filtered tracks beside the unfiltered ones can work as well.
The best option, in my opinion, is to give the option to set this behavior through the settings of the tool.
Serato, Support
Martin C 10:10 PM - 9 December, 2014
Agreed :)
BrendanClay 10:43 PM - 9 December, 2014
This could have benefits, definitely.

I'm sure – as digital DJs – our libraries are incredibly large in size, and we can be spoilt for choice.

How many have finished a gig, reviewed the set list and wondered why you didn't think to play track 'A', 'B', etc.

Though, on the other side of the coin, this idea, by limiting suggestions, may – for some – stunt the creative process somewhat.

Cool idea, though, definitely!
DJwhizkid 10:45 PM - 9 December, 2014
As Martin mentioned it could highlight the desired tracks and leave the other tracks in sight as well...
BrendanClay 10:47 PM - 9 December, 2014
Well, then, that sounds great.

I was essentially replying to the first post, and hadn't read the rest of the thread.

Shame on me.
DJwhizkid 11:01 PM - 9 December, 2014
Lol that what happens when theres too much info…. its hard to track :P
BrendanClay 11:03 PM - 9 December, 2014
Case in point!
=A=C= 3:07 AM - 10 December, 2014
+1 good idea!
although the actual implementation of that idea might be harder than it seems at first sight.
could be a very powerful tool when fully developed

@ DJwhizkid:
I made a comparison between your dynamic library management tool, and the similar but different "instant-link-between-tracks" idea in this other thread.
serato.com
BrendanClay 3:13 AM - 10 December, 2014
Perhaps an ability to create rules for said association would be a nice addition, too.

For instance, when selecting a track that might be in key – using the Camelot Wheel method – as well as finding references with the same Camelot number, or one either side, I might look for tracks that are:

> +7 places: up a semitone;
> -7 places: down a semiton;
> +2 places: up two semitones, or;
> -2 places: down two semitones.
DJwhizkid 6:51 AM - 10 December, 2014
=A=C=, I like the "instant-link-between-tracks" a lot.


BrendanClay ,I think that at first the key filtering should be one of these options:
- None - Any key get through
- Harmonic - Any keys that is harmonic by the general principles which means Unison, Relative minor/major, 5th and 4th harmonic degrees. For example in the key of C major the harmonic keys will be C major, A minor, G major, F major.
- Relative minor/major - In the case of C major it will be C maj and A min.
Unison - Only the same key.

I dont think that specific harmonic rules like +2 semitones will be that handy for the majority of serato users.
BrendanClay 7:44 AM - 10 December, 2014
Possibly, but giving the user the option to create a rule – if they choose, or are fussy like me – would be a nice feature.

Pre-created templates like you've mentioned would be really helpful, of course.
DJwhizkid 11:54 AM - 10 December, 2014
I understand what you're saying, however we need to take into account the "friendliness" of the tool. When you offer too many options it may become too clumsy and complex.

When you'll need to set a +2 semitones as a rule, someone else may want to filter songs if their duration is less than 2:40 minutes, or songs that have a BPM which is 175% higher.

Users may find lots of creative way to filter the library by, yet we need to draw a clear line between what is really necessary and common for the majority of users and whats not. The simpler the tool will be the better. Thats my opinion.
Mr Wilks 7:16 PM - 10 December, 2014
Quote:
I understand what you're saying, however we need to take into account the "friendliness" of the tool. When you offer too many options it may become too clumsy and complex.

When you'll need to set a +2 semitones as a rule, someone else may want to filter songs if their duration is less than 2:40 minutes, or songs that have a BPM which is 175% higher.

Users may find lots of creative way to filter the library by, yet we need to draw a clear line between what is really necessary and common for the majority of users and whats not. The simpler the tool will be the better. Thats my opinion.


Perfectly said. It has to be flexible but also remain user friendly at all times.
BrendanClay 11:26 PM - 10 December, 2014
You're probably right about that.

In my opinion, part of Serato's attraction has always been the simple "plug and play" nature of the application.

I know a fair few Traktor champions who have made certain, minor modifications to get it working the way they want it to. (Though, that might just be Windows!)
DJwhizkid 10:57 AM - 11 December, 2014
Question is where should we draw the line :)
What do you think must be included in the tool?

BPM and Key are the obvious, What else will be crucial?
Mr Wilks 4:32 PM - 11 December, 2014
Quote:
Question is where should we draw the line :)
What do you think must be included in the tool?

BPM and Key are the obvious, What else will be crucial?


I think all the rules that are currently present in the smart crates would be good. Tracks of a certain rule we decide "show only clean tracks" / "display tracks of a 10% BPM variant" / "show tracks of the 90s genre including rock genre". I think it's a method of multi-sorting that's also been asked about here. Having the entire library as a smart crate with the on/off button next to the search bar would be okay.

A check box that allows your preset to be turned on and off in an instant would be handy. Or maybe a drop down box next your the search box with, say, the five most used presets you can select throughout the night. Like the favorite FX function?

It's got potential for endless possibilities and implementations.
DJwhizkid 4:48 PM - 11 December, 2014
I dont really work with smart crates so i dont know which rules can be defined.

"show only clean tracks" / "display tracks of a 10% BPM variant" / "show tracks of the 90s genre including rock genre" - can you set it as rules with the smart crates?
Mr Wilks 8:24 PM - 11 December, 2014
Quote:
I dont really work with smart crates so i dont know which rules can be defined.

"show only clean tracks" / "display tracks of a 10% BPM variant" / "show tracks of the 90s genre including rock genre" - can you set it as rules with the smart crates?


Pretty much, yeah. You create rule(s) to search for and then tracks matching your 'rules' are automatically put into a crate... which are updated live too. Instead of being a crate it could be the library.

Give it a go by clicking a new smart crate and start setting various rules to see what you think and if the current rules would be enough to shrink the library to what you'd want. Being that it's updated live it's 'kinda' like a library view!

Adding a BPM +/- tolerance from your current track would need to be added if that was a rule people wanted but others are there.
DJwhizkid 1:49 PM - 13 December, 2014
Ooooh I did use it a couple of times b4…. well yeah its kinda similar.
It should by rules like the crates, but its important to remember that it dosnt replace the crate rules, so if you're in a crate already it will filter what inside it, so it will be like do double filtering.

My point here is that there shouldn't be that much rules like in the smart crates - it should be more general. It dosnt tend to filter the whole library to fit the current track, but to give better results within the crates themselves….
DJwhizkid 9:36 AM - 22 December, 2014
If some kind of a ranking system and/or playing count info will be implemented that could also be a nice criteria to dynamically sort the library.
Mr Wilks 10:40 AM - 22 December, 2014
Quote:
If some kind of a ranking system and/or playing count info will be implemented that could also be a nice criteria to dynamically sort the library.


I've put so many +1's next to rating and play count requests it's unbelievable.

I'm desperate for this so we can only show played tracks that you've played that week with 3 stars. It would help with my chart returns as I have to compile charts for musicweek.
DJwhizkid 10:45 AM - 22 December, 2014
Im sure Serato hear us. Lets hope they act accordingly :)
charlee1985 2:10 PM - 22 December, 2014
+1
Cwite 7:45 PM - 22 December, 2014
I would defo +1 this. I tried every combination of smart crate to get something like this working.
DJwhizkid 11:01 PM - 23 December, 2014
Yap, it will definitely upgrade the current crate system.
music man 3:29 PM - 27 December, 2014
+1
&Midge 5:55 PM - 27 December, 2014
+1 This sounds good.

When I'm looking for my next tune the filter most vital to me would be the 'KEY' of the next tune, and as I like to change semitones the option +2 / -2 and +7 / -7 as Brendan said this option would be much needed. If this wasn't an option it wouldn't be of little help for my needs.

Questions:
When would this filtering take place?
Would it be constant? (i.e. when all decks are loaded)
Or once one deck is unloaded?
What would happen with people using 4 decks?

This sounds very resource heavy (but i might be wrong), an increased amount of CPU usage with spikes leading to drops as the filtering takes places.
DJwhizkid 2:03 PM - 28 December, 2014
Key is surely one of the most important parameters to filter the library. The question is do we really need more specific options than same key/harmonic keys? I mean do we really need an option to select tunes that are +6/-6 or +11/-11 semitones? +2/-2 can be quite handy as well in some situations though… I think that for 95% of the times you would use same key or harmonic key for the next tune, and that other keys which are not harmonic won't lead to harmonic mixing anyway so what the point filtering the library by it…?

The filtering will take place when you choose to enable the tool.
The user will pick manually the "master" deck to use as an "anchor", or set the "last loaded deck" to be automatically the "master" deck.

I dont think it will resource heavy at all...
&Midge 9:35 PM - 28 December, 2014
+
Quote:
+11/-11 semitones


This is the same as +1/-1, much the same as +2/-2 is the same as +10/-10, and +7/-7 is the same as +5/-5

Quote:
I think that for 95% of the times you would use same key or harmonic key for the next tune


But changing semitones still keeps to the harmonic format.
DJwhizkid 10:00 PM - 28 December, 2014
Lest say your current tracks is in C.
If you want to mix harmonically, then your "best" choice will be songs in the same key - C.
The next level is the relative key - A minor.
The level after that is the 5 degree of the scale - G, and then the forth - F (and their relative minor).
The other degrees of the scales won't mix so harmonically, so why would you want to choose em?
&Midge 10:34 PM - 28 December, 2014
Are you familiar with using the Camelot Wheel for Harmonic mixing?
DJwhizkid 12:16 AM - 29 December, 2014
pretty much yes...
&Midge 8:20 AM - 29 December, 2014
For 'Shirk' to work using KEYS you would need several options in settings.

1. Keys being displayed as true values. i.e. the key 'C Minor' displayed as 'Cmin'

2. Keys being displayed in the Camelot values. i.e. the Key 'C Minor' displayed as '5A'

I use the Camelot wheel and I would need the tracks with these values displayed if finding a track to mix with a 5A and they would be the following:

4A, 5A, 5B, 6A and to change up or down semitone, 3A, 7A, 10A, 12A

Just to say I think this idea is great! But everybody has different needs and for a function like this to work anyone using the Camelot wheel would need these options for it to work effectively.

If you haven't tried shifting semitones, try it, it works well esp. +2/-2
DJwhizkid 9:10 AM - 29 December, 2014
This is exactly what I've described here:
Quote:
Lest say your current tracks is in C.
If you want to mix harmonically, then your "best" choice will be songs in the same key - C.
The next level is the relative key - A minor.
The level after that is the 5 degree of the scale - G, and then the forth - F (and their relative minor).
The other degrees of the scales won't mix so harmonically, so why would you want to choose em?



5A and 5B are the relative minor major…
4A and 6A are the harmonic keys - 4th and 5th degrees.

As for the whole-tone shifting (+2/-2) it can be effective I agree -yet its not harmonic.

What I dont understand is the logic behind the 3A,7A,10A,12A. Why should sound good with 5A?
&Midge 1:20 PM - 29 December, 2014
For me on the Camelot Wheel.

Quote:
The next level is the relative key - A minor.


This would not work.

Quote:
The level after that is the 5 degree of the scale - G, and then the forth - F (and their relative minor).


To move on the Camelot Wheel
G Minor and F Minor = YES
But G Major and F Major = NO


As for the logic behind 3A and 7A, (5A +2 or -2 = 3A or 7A) this would change up or down 2 semitones,

and 10A and 12A, (5A +7 or -7 = 10A or 12A) this would change up or down 1 semitone.

More info on this can be found here: community.mixedinkey.com

Maybe most people don't. But, surely myself and Brendan not the only people that changes semitones in this way. It's a method of mixing that really works well and it is worth playing around with this style of mixing if any of you haven't yet.


I guess the point I'm trying to make is although some filters will be easy (BPM within 10% range for example) the KEY filter will be hardest to define as people use this in different ways and some might not even have the values recorded in the same way. That's why it's important to discuss this.

Also, to get the most out of this, would meta tag generation be an important part of the feature? or should this be handled with Third Party Apps?
DJwhizkid 1:37 PM - 29 December, 2014
I read the first msg in the link you've pasted. I understood it from the first time you mentioned it. Mixing with songs which are 1 tone above can make a nice uplifting feel, but l playing a tone above the 5th degree isn't that effective.

Im talking as a musician here, not a DJ. It is basic music theory. 1st degree will mix perfect with 1st degree, its relative minor which consists of the same notes, the 5th degree of the scale which is the most harmonic degree on the scale and lastly the forth degree.

This is exactly what the Camelot wheel is showing you graphically.

Mixing to other degrees can work as well but won't sound that good when playing together because of to much dissonance between the notes.

Mixing 2 semi tones above the current key can make a nice "lift" effect, but its not the case when you play 2 semitones above the 5th or 4th degree of the scale.

Of course there is no right or wrong in music, composing or mixing - but there are some guidelines.
DJwhizkid 1:42 PM - 29 December, 2014
About the way users should format their values, a simple standard can be set.
I think that for major scales we should use the letters (A-G),
whereas for minor we should use A- or Amin. Serato can treat all of the common formats as the same (a-,amin, a minor, am= A minor)
Its not that complicated. The standard "signs" are already known and being used everywhere.
&Midge 1:54 PM - 29 December, 2014
Quote:
Of course there is no right or wrong in music, composing or mixing - but there are some guidelines.


You've got it right just there. Peoples guidelines might / will be different and how to accommodate the differences is the tricky part as no one is right or wrong. To set guidelines that work for one might not work for another. So would there be a standardized rule for Key Filter, or different rules for peoples differing standards and methods?

My Key values have been analyzed by 'Key Finder' and the key meta tag is changed to display as 1A, 1B, 2A etc
DJwhizkid 2:15 PM - 29 December, 2014
The most complex way it can get is letting the user set which of the degrees (in semitones) of the chromatic scale should stay unfiltered (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12).
Question is how many DJs really understands semitone and scales?
I think most DJS would stick with same key, relative keys, harmonic keys and thats it.
Maybe an advanced tab in that panel would let more personal preferences, but as i know Serato they will keep it as simple and as clean as possible.

And for the key formats, I assume these 1A,1B etc... are standard formats as well that can be treated by serato the same as the keys themselves (G#m, B).
&Midge 2:26 PM - 29 December, 2014
I think I am over analyzing this and the complexities. ;)
DJwhizkid 2:27 PM - 29 December, 2014
Thing is its not that complex when you understand the logic behind it :)
DJwhizkid 1:30 PM - 6 January, 2015
Bump
TrashGordon 11:10 AM - 13 January, 2015
+1!!!
djchrisL 3:52 PM - 17 January, 2015
+1
DJwhizkid 5:29 PM - 30 January, 2015
lets make it real….
Leafie 1:27 PM - 11 February, 2015
I just use smart crates.

Create crates something like "From 1A", "From 1B" etc. Then just filter your other tracks in that have a suitable key. Sort the crate by BPM and you have something workable.
Mike Czech 7:21 PM - 11 February, 2015
+1

Anything to help weed through the mess of having a huge catalog. There can never be enough ways to filter your library, and Serato really hasn't even tried to create anything new in this area. The "Smart Crates" really are basically feature-less, iTunes does a much better job of this.

And seriously, when iTunes does something better than what you're doing, it MUST be bad.
DJ Frustro 8:52 PM - 5 March, 2015
I would also add the ability to do multiple filters per column. For example in my Hip Hop crate I want to select a pulldown at top of the column that has the following boolean operator: [begins with/ends with/is not/is] year is older than (1995) and then be able to see just those results. Next, within that 'filtered view' I further want to be able to the go to the bpm column and filter by: bpm [greater than/less than/is not/begins/ends] 70. I would like to be able to do this for those times when I want Hip Hop music older than 1995, bpm greater than 70 and if I were to really get picky, grouping: [greater than/less than/is not/is] 7 or 8 or 9. (Grouping is where Mixed in Key places the energy level of the song)

Once you're able to do such on the fly filtering within genres, it's really simple to find/narrow down what you need. Mind you this should work on all the columns within the grid, not just the ones I mentioned.
DJwhizkid 8:02 AM - 29 March, 2015
I see lots of users that request for a better "crating" system with sub crafts and so on. Apparently they didn't see this thread - so here it goes. Its the perfect solution.
Davideon 6:59 PM - 30 March, 2015
Could be good. GOD knows if it could happen
DJwhizkid 9:02 AM - 14 April, 2015
YES IT CAN!