Software help archive

A read-only archive of old serato.com help threads.

tracks losing sync / drifting

Product
Serato DJ Pro
Version
1.5.2
Hardware
Numark NS7 II
Computer
PC
OS
Platform
-
Sounds By JB 12:02 AM - 11 December, 2013
When I have tracks (2013, Techno, Flac) running in perfect sync (when using smartsync) they too often spontaneously loose sync. Its just a minor lose of sync but enough for me to hear it to press sync or pitch bend again.

I figured it would have something to do with the moving platters. So I I enabled slip mode which normally will correct any effects caused by the platters. No effect.

The same for turning off the platters as a whole, still I experience minor drifting..

What is going on?
Sam GG 2:03 AM - 11 December, 2013
Hey Sounds By JB,

Have you tried mixing the same two tracks with the motorized platters turned off?

Sam
Sounds By JB 5:19 AM - 11 December, 2013
yes, even with the platters turned off!
Sam GG 2:36 AM - 12 December, 2013
If this happens with the motorized platters turned OFF its likely that your tracks have incorrectly set beatgrids. Have you tried adjusting them?

Sam
Sounds By JB 5:25 AM - 12 December, 2013
Hi Sam,

All beat grids have been auto analyzed and manually checked. In some cases I used slip to adjust the position of the grid.

I'm using smartsync, so when I play the tracks line up perfectly and remain like that. When one drifts (its truly small) I notice it by ear and the sync indicator goes to orange, when I than resync its all solid again. I would think that the tracks would be somehow stay locked on whatever minor fluctuations.

Thx!
Sam GG 12:00 AM - 17 December, 2013
It still sounds to me like it may be your beatgrids. Can you upload a couple of the tracks here for me to look at?

Sam
Sounds By JB 8:59 AM - 18 December, 2013
Ill find you some tracks Sam! Thx!
Sam GG 9:36 PM - 18 December, 2013
Sweet, looking forward.
Sounds By JB 8:02 AM - 23 December, 2013
Hey Sam,

Trying to get something reproducible here but the effect seems pretty random. What I did notice is:

- The motor do seem to be the 'bad' guys.
- But also the position of the pitch slider seems to make an impact.

And just read here: serato.com than more people are actually bothered with it.

So no idea if serato is just reading the unit to accurate or if there is some misalignment between the two, but it gets to be annoying to be constantly re-correcting the synchronization. WHEN it happens its worse than with traditional SL12K's.

I will send you a link to two files that you could try this with (just exactly what I did):

- load left in left right in the right deck
- Pitch down left to 136,5 bpm
- (auto)loop the first four beats of the right deck
- start deck left
- start the loop of deck right, in sync of course

Play around with some stuff but basically just let it run.

Cheers and happy holidays.
Andrewwwwwww 1:53 AM - 27 December, 2013
Any luck from serato or should I Not get the ns7II?
Karl Y 3:15 PM - 27 December, 2013
Hi Andrewwwwwww

if there is a bug which we can reproduce, we will try to fix it :-)

For the time being, it seems that the operator of this thread is still having the issue, so if the potential of this happening to you as well would be a deal breaker for you, i'd recommend you wait for a while and don't buy the controller.

That said, we always try to resolve outstanding issues and fix any bug we can reproduce.

Sometimes certain bugs can have to wait a bit longer than others. This depends on how serious a bug is and how many users are having it. Also a priority criteria, based on common sense and some simple rules.
For example, if file corruption or crashes would occur, or anything that makes the product unusable, (like audio distortion for example) that is always a higher priority than minor mapping issues where you can still rock a night with the controller as it is.

Thanks
Karl
Sounds By JB 3:39 PM - 27 December, 2013
Karl,

Any help you need with reproducing, either video, tracks, or whatever, just let me know.

Cheers,

JB
Sounds By JB 8:35 PM - 27 December, 2013
Sam GG, Karl Y,

Send you guys a video to watch in a private message. Hope it helps.

Cheers,

JB
deancrake 9:09 PM - 28 December, 2013
I have all the same issues and cant see how there can be much more importance than keeping things tight without constant correction ...and its no comfort when it costs so much either ... my priority will be too sell it com feb if it cant be fixed dare not leave it any longer than this as I wont even get close to what it costs due to all the ill press its going to get ...with all the faith in the world and a big shout out to serato for there support in resolving things asap our happiness is in your hands haha regards ..dc
deancrake 11:41 PM - 28 December, 2013
also jb how do you go about assigning the sampler volume to a channel do you know please thanks
dc
JanB 4:30 PM - 29 December, 2013
Yes, my first question at the NS7-II compared with the DDJ-SX is how do I control the samples volume? Why not an extra control fader or knob?
But when I read the problems about the sync start....
Thanks for sharing this info. It prevents me for much purchase leed.
Sand 6:12 PM - 29 December, 2013
Quote:
When I have tracks (2013, Techno, Flac) running in perfect sync (when using smartsync) they too often spontaneously loose sync. Its just a minor lose of sync but enough for me to hear it to press sync or pitch bend again.

I figured it would have something to do with the moving platters. So I I enabled slip mode which normally will correct any effects caused by the platters. No effect.

The same for turning off the platters as a whole, still I experience minor drifting..

What is going on?


I have had the same problem originally on my NS6 which was proven to be a fault by Serato, and also this fault is evident on my NS7 2. I have just decided to wait it out and hope it is fixed soon with an update.
Sam GG 8:48 PM - 29 December, 2013
Hey JB,

Sorry about the late reply, we have been really busy over the holiday period.

Thanks for providing the video and the tracks for me to test with. I have not been able to recreate your issue.

Judging by your video it looks like there is slight flutter with the motors and the sync is disrupted slightly, the software realizes and compensates for it after a moment. You would see the same issue with regular turntables or an NS7 for instance. Having motors introduces another variable.

Sam
Sounds By JB 9:15 PM - 29 December, 2013
Hey Sam,

Thank you for replying, but that's hardly a sufficient response. I've played with SL12K's and they were a heck of allot more stable than this. Drifting a bit sometimes is normal, but 14 times in 10 minutes is not what I call a working set of gear. None of the first NS7 users that I spoke are experiencing these issues in this magnitude.

And I'm not the only user experiencing this problem as you can see in the various threads. If there is some sort of signature flutter in these devices than the software will need to take that into account as a given an compensate to make the whole thing work together.

So I do hope Numark and Serato will take its responsibility and investigate this further since its pretty clear from these various user responses this is a deal breaker for their (future) customers buying 'The best controller ever build that will drift off sync within 45 seconds'. Period.

JB
deancrake 9:55 PM - 29 December, 2013
Quote:
Hey JB,



Sorry about the late reply, we have been really busy over the holiday period.



Thanks for providing the video and the tracks for me to test with. I have not been able to recreate your issue.



Judging by your video it looks like there is slight flutter with the motors and the sync is disrupted slightly, the software realizes and compensates for it after a moment. You would see the same issue with regular turntables or an NS7 for instance. Having motors introduces another variable.



Sam

hi sam
where do things stand as far as manipulating the track while its playing with the motors off ie scratching being able to spin back so forth is there a chance of this being something that could be fixed in a firmware upgrade as this may ease a lot of pain while the drifting situation is resolved . would that be possible ??
regards
dc
Sam GG 11:28 PM - 6 January, 2014
Hey Guys,

Most users who purchase the NS7 and the NS7II expect a little bit of fluctuation as they are generally vinyl enthusiasts and most turntables experience this. I think if you connected your 2 technics turntables with an SL box and used sync in the beta you would notice the slight fluctuations also.

That being said, it is a fair point about ignoring the fluctuations in speed and this is something that we may address in the future. We currently do not do this. I believe traktor do this with their software, whenever they have moving platters and sync the platter motion is ignored and sync is purely based on beatgrids.

Whether this is something the majority of a users want or even if it is a edge case request I think its worth logging as a feature request, which I am happy to do for you.

Sam
deancrake 12:38 AM - 7 January, 2014
hi sam...
I bought the unit due to its extra functions ie capacitive knobs pads and so forth and not for reasons stated above .this product was supposed to be (the best controller ever made period) I just don't see how this issue wasn't made a priority during testing to be honest I can live without the motors running but not having a functioning platter while the track is playing is a double blow I really hope one of these issues is dealt with soon as to press I am actually yet to come of playing with it without feeling fed up I bought the thing and what I could of bought for not a lot more ........some good news soon would be nice..
regards dc
Sam GG 10:23 PM - 8 January, 2014
Hey dc,

The fluctuations are really minor. Just like a regular turntable. If you are finding that the tracks are getting thrown out in a real bad way I would recommend speaking to Numark as you motors may be defective or need servicing.
Panotaker 4:34 AM - 9 January, 2014
If this is an issue with motorized platters, why is this not a problem with the NS7 and Itch. It is only a problem with Serato DJ. The NS7 stays synced up just fine when you run Itch, Serato DJ is the problem. The other problem is that Serato and Numark can't seem to duplicate the problems we keep complaining about. Can you post a version of the Serato DJ 1.7 beta that you guys are using, because the 1.6 beta that we are using doesn't seem to work. I hate to be so harsh, but I have been complaining about instant start and sync not working in Serato DJ since day one. Can't you guys make it work like it does in Itch? Sync and instant start work perfect in Itch. I bet if you get the instant start problem fixed, the rest of the problems will fix themselves.
Sounds By JB 1:01 PM - 12 January, 2014
Hey guys,

Been a while for me to respond to this thread. Took the time to make some decent hours with the units and use it on a big gig yesterday.

In general the unit drifts less and I've also noticed it is for sure temperature related, as in the motors (on venue ;P) need to be nice and warm. I guess they might have just needed some wear-in time.

Nevertheless, I do still at times experience the de-syncing and I don't believe its all hardware related. it doesn't seem to be entirely random and its not a slow drift. Everything can be ok for half an hour and than all of a sudden two tracks get very problematic and de-desync multiple time. Not entirely by slowly drifting apart, but I have the feeling they make a little jump.

Of course all not really helpful as in very reproducible but, with a developers background, its my gut feeling that the de-syncing might have its root cause in the drift, but is somehow amplified in the sync procedures.

From a software perspective the drift should be very easily correctable. The effect of a fingertip slowing down the motor is much much noticeable than the drift. Perhaps a 'sensitivity' parameter?
Sam GG 2:21 AM - 13 January, 2014
Thanks for the further insight guys,

I will pass these details on to our developers.

Cheers, Sam
8:00 AM, 27 Jan 2014
This help request has been closed due to inactivity.