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What's harder to spin? HipHop/Open Format or EDM?
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What's harder to spin? HipHop/Open Format or EDM?

DJ Mozo 9:11 PM - 28 June, 2013
I saw a post on fb that kinda "grinded my gears." Some EDM dj said " pssh.. Hip hop DJs shouldn't try to dj EDM, it just doesn't work."
I was like whaaaa? I started djing hip hop and old school tracks and have kept with my roots ever since. I assimilated to spinning EDM when the occasions called for it, because as times go on, I adapted. I've done a few EDM gigs.. ACtually a fair amount more than a few, frankly because IMO they're a lot easier to dj. I've been fairly successful in doing the EDM thing, which lets be honest, is not that hard to spin. I aksed them to explain and they were saying that there is more to spinning EDM than there is to hiphop.. At which point, I almost lost my shit. lol. Frankly, I've started spinning EDM on usb sticks no laptop and its astonishing to these guys. What, no laptop? I know fascinating, I use my ears instead of eyes to dj. taDUN magic. lol

I understand there is a challenge to djing EDM. And honestly, it's still pretty simple to do, and the EDM djs still find a way to trainwreck.. USing the flanger and other effects as a permanent crutch is not djing.. its plain awful. Phrasing, transitions, keys, blends all that good stuff. It's not hard, even without effects (Whaaaaa?!?! Iknow crazy concept lol)

There is more of a challenge in DJing hip hop.. IMHO.. Going outside of 128bpm.wait what? I know, pitch, blending, mixing, phrasing, keys, even a little bit of scratching from time to time. I definitely do not see any EDM djs trying to dj hip hop and being successful at it as easily as it would be for a hip hop dj to spin edm. When spinning hip hop/open format, you're playing for the crowd, you're observing and raecting to what the crowd wants; how many times are EDM DJ's up there spinning a planned out set, not paying attention if the crowds rocking out? Frankly, I thought it was stupid of them to start saying things like that. But I defended it for a bit saying there are many different challenges to both

Then they came back saying hey its ok.. at least we're all djs.. not laptop djs..

I was like wow.. some EDM djs are such pricks.. lol.

Now I did generalize EDM Djs.. I don't mean all.. in this whole question, I mean a fair amount to most..

What are your guys' thoughts?
dj_soo 9:18 PM - 28 June, 2013
I think you're generally better off paying more attention to what you're doing than paying attention what other Djs think
 6 9:21 PM - 28 June, 2013
Quote:
I think you're generally better off paying more attention to what you're doing than paying attention what other Djs think
DJ Mozo 9:29 PM - 28 June, 2013
I know.. and I am.. I was just ranting a bit at these guys, and am now honestly thinking what to you is more challenging/ requires more skill?
Thundercat 10:35 PM - 28 June, 2013
Quote:
I think you're generally better off paying more attention to what you're doing than paying attention what other Djs think
DJ Art Pumpin Payne 12:00 AM - 29 June, 2013
Quote:
Some EDM dj said " pssh.. Hip hop DJs shouldn't try to dj EDM, it just doesn't work."
There is a WHOLE LOT of truth to that especially today.

Quote:
And honestly, it's still pretty simple to do,
WRONG!!!! JUST WRONG!!!!!

Spinning EDM takes MUCH MORE skill than spinning Rap and Open format. Most DJs don't realize how hard it is to do a cake toss without getting the icing on your fingers or making the cake NOT land "bottom side down" on the audience.

This time of year takes a physical toll on the EDM DJ - imagine wearing a mask at a outdoor festival in 80, 90 or even 100 degree heat, When you do a Jesus pose - you have to be sure that your deodorant is working - nothing worse than visible Pit stains while you do that sustained Pose.

Let's not even talk about how hard it is to make those knobs look like they weight 40lbs while fucking with the EQ or making sure your fist pumps are in sync with the pre made mix that you did in Ableton (all same BPM range)...

What does a Rap or Open Format DJ have to do - just rock the crowd and make them dance???

Hell - Anybody can do that!!!

: )
Joshua Carl 7:25 PM - 29 June, 2013
To mix dance music track a to b and be decent at it... Eazy peazy
Arguably one of the easiest things in our game.

But that's a pencil dive.
And sadly that's where a lot of dance DJs live
(And are perfectly content with that... Hence the image of 3 minutes of posing, knob twisting and theatrical antics )

But there are dance DJs who strive for more, generally employing all the sought after skills employed by hiphop, open format and turntablists.
Granted, 99.9% are NOT going to be you standard dance artist turned DJ playing at festivals and such.
Which of course makes them usually local heros, and often scene veterans.

But like everything in our scene, there are no 1 answers, or concise lines for us all to fit in.
Robert W 10:36 PM - 30 June, 2013
I'd say hiphop is harder. I.M.H.O. turntablism skills greatly enhance the mix. If im listening to a dj spin hip hop and hes not doing any scratching, beat juggling, or other tricks, then ill get bored and not wanna listen anymore. It takes long time, to get to that level plus, you dont have 5 minutes to mix the next song in like in edm, so ya gotta be quick with the beat matching (which really isnt that hard though )
DJ Remy USA 3:10 PM - 1 July, 2013
Quote:
I think you're generally better off paying more attention to what you're doing than paying attention what other Djs think


pretty much
Dj-M.Bezzle 4:05 PM - 1 July, 2013
Apples and oranges
DJ Reflex 10:41 PM - 1 July, 2013
Quote:
Apples and oranges



True, but oranges are harder to peel.
 6 10:42 PM - 1 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Apples and oranges



True, but oranges are harder to peel.


hahaha
Dj-M.Bezzle 12:59 PM - 2 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Apples and oranges



True, but oranges are harder to peel.


hahaha

Lol i agree, my personal opinion is yes hiphop and open format are easier to spin on a technical level but its much harder to capture the spirit of an edm set. I havent spun a hiphop or open format set in over a year but when i did you could play the wobble and shit like that 4 or 5 times in a row and people would eat it up, they just want to hear their hot garbage ratchet bullshit and the hard part as a dj is figuring out how to technically get to each song and somehow make the repetitive shit interesting. At least where i am if you play some cookie cutter shit like levels youll get booed off stage, its still abouy finding that rare remix, or having your own remix or buildint that pathway of the night
DJ Mozo 3:13 PM - 2 July, 2013
I definitely do feel like if you play levels, you'll get booed lol In either genre. That's anywhere nowadays.

In all reality, the EDM scene is so accustomed to the top 10 beatport playlist, but I do feel that in the EDM scene they would accept and enjoy something you created or a special mashup or something that hasn't been heard before. Where as hip hop, if you bring in a new underground banger, the audience might not respond so fairly. Don't get me wrong, if done properly they could love the new track, but it's a risk either way. As well as vice versa for EDM.

The other day, I was told by the manager to only keep it at 128 upbeat electro house stuff. The Trap stuff is boring and depressing. I was like whaaaaa? Don't get me wrong, there is some awful trap remixes out there. But there definitely are some good tracks that can keep the turnup on full volume. Where was I going with this? I feel that within the EDM scene there are more restrictions on what you should be playing/not playing. And I understand there will always be some genre specific nights, but if its an EDM night at the club, I should be able to play any genre of house be it tech house, electro, minimal, or when the time calls for it some Dusbtep, glitch hop, even hardstyle (Ewww). Whereas, open format club nights, you have free range with your arsenal.
Dj-M.Bezzle 3:18 PM - 2 July, 2013
Quote:
I definitely do feel like if you play levels, you'll get booed lol In either genre. That's anywhere nowadays.

In all reality, the EDM scene is so accustomed to the top 10 beatport playlist, but I do feel that in the EDM scene they would accept and enjoy something you created or a special mashup or something that hasn't been heard before. Where as hip hop, if you bring in a new underground banger, the audience might not respond so fairly. Don't get me wrong, if done properly they could love the new track, but it's a risk either way. As well as vice versa for EDM.

The other day, I was told by the manager to only keep it at 128 upbeat electro house stuff. The Trap stuff is boring and depressing. I was like whaaaaa? Don't get me wrong, there is some awful trap remixes out there. But there definitely are some good tracks that can keep the turnup on full volume. Where was I going with this? I feel that within the EDM scene there are more restrictions on what you should be playing/not playing. And I understand there will always be some genre specific nights, but if its an EDM night at the club, I should be able to play any genre of house be it tech house, electro, minimal, or when the time calls for it some Dusbtep, glitch hop, even hardstyle (Ewww). Whereas, open format club nights, you have free range with your arsenal.


^that senarios kinda specific to you, from my experiences ive seen helicopter showdown drop a queen track and heard alot of edm djs drop rap tracks and in all cases the crowd loves it, whereas if i were to drop some protohype or zomboy at a hiphop/open format gig, id get the stink eye and be told to stop playing techno
DJ Remy USA 3:58 PM - 2 July, 2013
Def agree when I play gigs dubbed for "EDM" the promoters are snobs and barely let me do any real kind of DJing. The moment I get creative the crowd digs it but the promoter then feels like his brand is on the line and then quickly ask me to cut the creativity out and play levels...lol.

I like open format gigs less bitching from promoters

I dislike any gig where Im forced to play specifically one type of genre wether it be hiphop, house, reggeaton or anything where the promoter says "hey only play this kind of music" so I stick to my bed room most weekends working on stuff that I like.
Dj-M.Bezzle 4:11 PM - 2 July, 2013
Quote:
Def agree when I play gigs dubbed for "EDM" the promoters are snobs and barely let me do any real kind of DJing. The moment I get creative the crowd digs it but the promoter then feels like his brand is on the line and then quickly ask me to cut the creativity out and play levels...lol.

I like open format gigs less bitching from promoters

I dislike any gig where Im forced to play specifically one type of genre wether it be hiphop, house, reggeaton or anything where the promoter says "hey only play this kind of music" so I stick to my bed room most weekends working on stuff that I like.



True that, i acutually got into an argument with a promoter at a show last month (and prob lost a nice gig) because he couldnt wrap his head around the concept of playing one genre.

Promoter: hey whats up so your djmbezzle ive heard your name around and im thinkin bout adding you to a line up what do you play

Me: Everything

Promoter: no i mean when your booked what do you play

Me: everything or at least whatever fits the room

Promoter: No i mean if you booked what would you WANT to play

Me: everything

Promoter: well what do you like to listen to

Me: everything

Promoter: what the hell does that mean

Me: it means ive been doin this for over 10 years, ive held residencys in hiphop spots, top 40 spots,band played raves through several fads do depending on the gig might play dubstep, trap, mabye some old school breaks of some funky house and i may mix in some rock or rap if it feels right

Promoter: oh your just a fucking top 40 dj i dont book those

Me: facepalm whatever, i didnt ask you for a gig you approached me


The rest of the night dude kept making snide remarks about me being a top 40 dj whenever i walked by.

To this day i havent heard about him throwing a party lol
Joshua Carl 4:50 PM - 2 July, 2013
Quote:

I dislike any gig where Im forced to play specifically one type of genre wether it be hiphop, house, reggeaton or anything where the promoter says "hey only play this kind of music"


I agree, especially in a bar, or a spot where there arent the other contributing factors to constitute a reputable reflection of the music played.
IE.
I get alot of "NO HIPHOP"
Now Im certainly not whining about not having to play a 2-chainz-a-thon
but when you want all dance music, and the only thing you have in you venue is mediocre speakers and a DJ booth, people dont walk in that room expect to hear
music that compliments the demographic of the room, and the patrons.
and then of course you have a non-dance crowd living between 120-134 bpms all night
if your going to say, no hiphop, all dance music you better come with some proper sound and lights....
you can not just change the format from open to all dance, and then exclaim your a dance room.
its like putting spaghetti on you chinese food menu, and saying, no we are an Italian restaurant now.... dont you see the spaghetti?

I chalk that scenario up ton good old fashioned racism.
call it what you want. but thats what it really is.

look at my post from 5 years ago: serato.com

your certainly not alone, and its certainly not a new occurrence to run into arrogance in the dance community as an open format DJ...
but anytime you stand on a fence you can expect to get rocks thrown by each side.
you REALLY have to know, and exercise some great stuff to be the top40/hiphop guy to walk into a dance community and gain acceptance
("we" all know by our standard what it means technically to spin both...)

but.
you have to remember these are simple people we are dealing with here....
you know...
MORONS.

2 Years, daddy's trust fund, and a few trips to ultra and edc and they come back thinking they know all about dance music....
djnak 6:27 PM - 2 July, 2013
Quote:
2 Years, daddy's trust fund, and a few trips to ultra and edc and they come back thinking they know all about dance music....



quote of the day!!!! stealing this....
DJ Mozo 10:17 PM - 2 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
2 Years, daddy's trust fund, and a few trips to ultra and edc and they come back thinking they know all about dance music....






quote of the day!!!! stealing this....



definitely love this.. lol

I'm doing a set this week, with a few other cats..One of the djs who is supposed to be the big headliner type guy, has all these people coming out to see him etc, I found out has only been djing for 6 months. Everytime I see him post about a gig, hey does anyone have an S2 or S4 I can borrow for a gig? Like really? How are you going to be playing Avalon/Exchange and not even have your own gear? Apparently, he's one of the promoter turned dj... So yea, he can pull a crowd.. plus He's kinda a prick.lol.. Yes, I'm "jealous" of the fact at how easy it was for him to be successful, in comparison to the old school ways of grinding it out and working for success.

Like I've said before, the edm kids don't care. They don't learn the importance of owning your own gear. The pride you get from paying for your own equipment after saving up from all your gigs to be able to finally afford it.
DJ Remy USA 10:22 PM - 2 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
2 Years, daddy's trust fund, and a few trips to ultra and edc and they come back thinking they know all about dance music....



quote of the day!!!! stealing this....


I just put that on my facebook and got likes right away cause its tru talk
DJ Remy USA 10:24 PM - 2 July, 2013
To much truth going on in this thread I gotta watch myself I just got picked up by promo team in DC that does mostly electronic parties.

Weird thing is they know Im not play it safe kinda DJ so we will see how long this last Im not changing my style to suit anyone. I will bend but not break
DJ Mozo 10:28 PM - 2 July, 2013
Quote:
To much truth going on in this thread I gotta watch myself I just got picked up by promo team in DC that does mostly electronic parties.



Weird thing is they know Im not play it safe kinda DJ so we will see how long this last Im not changing my style to suit anyone. I will bend but not break



yea.. same here.. working with new team.. i've had to stop calling people out on fb..lol
DJ Remy USA 1:07 PM - 3 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
To much truth going on in this thread I gotta watch myself I just got picked up by promo team in DC that does mostly electronic parties.



Weird thing is they know Im not play it safe kinda DJ so we will see how long this last Im not changing my style to suit anyone. I will bend but not break



yea.. same here.. working with new team.. i've had to stop calling people out on fb..lol


yea man thats no way to build a network if you wanna blast someone your better off going to them face to face and telling them the issues you have. They may not like you after but they will damn sure respect you.
DJ Mozo 2:56 PM - 3 July, 2013
I post passive-agressive things on FB mainly. Have you checked out the fb page for DJ's on blast? I'm sure some of you are the owners of those pages. But they post a lot of points that we've discussed on this page, along with a lot of other posts I've read in these forums.

But I'll share some of the posts from there cus they have a lot of valid points. I like that they obviously don't feel the need to hide what they feel. I know that now that I'm working with new cats with that promo team, I've got to be careful of what I post. Don't want to offend anyone. Damn being politically correct !l ol
RonDu 5:22 PM - 3 July, 2013
I don't know. Playing EDM reminds me of playing 80's and 90's house and 70's disco- just with a lot of effects, synths, multi-pitched snares, and effective exagerrated knob turning to enhance the performance and making it look difficult. I honestly don't see what is so challenging about it. Pretty much the only thing I'm doing, and I'm speaking for myself, is working the pitch. Y'all can hate me........ NOW.

On the other hand, to me, Hip-Hop is more work. Various tempos, styles and you definitely HAVE to come up with good transitions. Properly placed scratches and teases enhance the performance as well. Special effect lighting and costumes are optional.

To conclude, I don't see it being a challenge for a strictly Hip-Hop DJ to effectively play EDM but I do see a challenge in a strictly EDM DJ playing Hip-Hop.

Mis dos pesos.

In advance, you're welcome
 6 7:48 PM - 3 July, 2013
I'm going be as real as it gets to answer this question and hopefully put the question to rest.

In all honesty, anything other than EDM would be harder to mix if DJ's weren't using extended intros as EDM songs automatically have intros on them on original songs for the most part. BUT, since DJ's use extended intros 99.9 percent of the time, it's almost up for grabs. The only difference would be the BPM ranges - anything other than EDM still is a little "harder" to mix.... but not by much.

Now, I'm just going by basic matching of 2 songs via BPM. Now, add things like proper mixing of two songs by way of no clashing, etc and I think anything other than EDM is a little more difficult.

However, I believe both types of mixing/spinning require a certain art and dedication. So, that's usually what separates good from better, etc.

nm
DJ Mozo 7:50 PM - 3 July, 2013
Quote:
I
To conclude, I don't see it being a challenge for a strictly Hip-Hop DJ to effectively play EDM but I do see a challenge in a strictly EDM DJ playing Hip-Hop.


yup

I definitely agree with this
pdidy 8:29 PM - 3 July, 2013
I see it like this....

House/EDM: Requires a GED or High School diploma.

Hiphop: Requires a GED or High School diploma, associates degree, bachelors degree masters degree, doctorate degree.

Hiphop has many more levels of skill for the "DJ" to choose from. Some hiphop djs NEVER get past the GED stage.....;)
pdidy 8:33 PM - 3 July, 2013
Quote:
House/EDM: Requires a GED or High School diploma.


Disclaimer: This does not apply to House/EDM djs like Carl Cox because he is obviously a God....lol
DJ Mozo 9:56 PM - 3 July, 2013
Some EDM djs never make it to high school.lol
In general..lol
Dj R. Driver 11:09 PM - 3 July, 2013
some edm djs on these forums are still in high school
DJ Remy USA 11:42 PM - 3 July, 2013
Quote:
I see it like this....

House/EDM: Requires a GED or High School diploma.

Hiphop: Requires a GED or High School diploma, associates degree, bachelors degree masters degree, doctorate degree.

Hiphop has many more levels of skill for the "DJ" to choose from. Some hiphop djs NEVER get past the GED stage.....;)


this is probably the most accurate I would add that some of the EDM guys use to be hiphop DJs that got bored with the sound and moved into something more exciting.
DjWoody 12:06 AM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
Some EDM djs never make it to high school.lol
In general..lol


And some have high end degrees like Judge Jules & Armin Van Buuren who both have Law degrees.
DJ Art Pumpin Payne 12:51 AM - 4 July, 2013
So it takes a masters degree to stop a record and yell on a mic?

Actually I came from a (true) house background (no fist pump) and mixing traditional or deep house CAN be more complex than most hip hop rap Djs think.

When done right - a multi measure blend where baselines drop and strings come in can be magical - no 16 or 32 beats and out.

We are talking letting 2 records inter twine for 128 beats (not Bpms) or more. Soon as the strings drop on song - A - bassline comes in on song B - proper phrasing...

Add in twisting knobs to control the Bass - not difficult but definately not a cake walk to make some magic...

Just sayin...
DJ DisGrace 1:28 AM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
We are talking letting 2 records inter twine for 128 beats (not Bpms) or more

ahhh, the pre "drop" days lol
 6 1:34 AM - 4 July, 2013
Or even blending....

nm
dj_soo 1:37 AM - 4 July, 2013
I think back in the vinyl days, proper mixing of EDM was way more challenging since phrasing required knowing where the track when for long periods of time and required both knowledge of the song and knowledge of reading the grooves.

Without cue points, transients, loops, or waveforms, you had to be completely on point with phrasing sometimes 32 or more bars into the song to get proper blends and complimentary mixes.

Mixing was generally more complicated too since the better DJs would flip between basslines, tease riffs and hooks, double drop tunes and generally make it so the listener would not know when one song began and the other ended unlike todays style of mixing quick from one drop to the next or one break to the next.

You couldn't just drop a cue point 8 bars before a drop or break and quickly re-cue or loop just in case your phrasing was off by a phrase or something. If you were off, you either wouldn't have ideal phrasing or you'd have to start your mix over riding it out for another long period of the tune.

Nowadays even without sync, there are so many shortcuts to let you figure out your phrasing without even listening to your tracks. Hell, Traktor even includes a phrase counter giving you an easy countdown to your next cue point. And all the tracks are just super-easy to mix now with at most 16 bars until the break or drop.

And like sixxx said, almost all the "hip hop" djs are now using intro edits taking away the requirement to actually study and know you tunes (or even count anything other than 8 bars).

Dumbed down imo.
pdidy 1:38 AM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
So it takes a masters degree to stop a record and yell on a mic?

Actually I came from a (true) house background (no fist pump) and mixing traditional or deep house CAN be more complex than most hip hop rap Djs think.

When done right - a multi measure blend where baselines drop and strings come in can be magical - no 16 or 32 beats and out.

We are talking letting 2 records inter twine for 128 beats (not Bpms) or more. Soon as the strings drop on song - A - bassline comes in on song B - proper phrasing...

Add in twisting knobs to control the Bass - not difficult but definately not a cake walk to make some magic...

Just sayin...


Man stop playin, that's easy once you have developed flawless blending skills.

Difficult is classic 70's early 80's disco/r&b tracks with live drums. Blending that for 16+ bars separates the men from the boys easily.......lol
dj_soo 1:40 AM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
So it takes a masters degree to stop a record and yell on a mic?

Actually I came from a (true) house background (no fist pump) and mixing traditional or deep house CAN be more complex than most hip hop rap Djs think.

When done right - a multi measure blend where baselines drop and strings come in can be magical - no 16 or 32 beats and out.

We are talking letting 2 records inter twine for 128 beats (not Bpms) or more. Soon as the strings drop on song - A - bassline comes in on song B - proper phrasing...

Add in twisting knobs to control the Bass - not difficult but definately not a cake walk to make some magic...

Just sayin...


Man stop playin, that's easy once you have developed flawless blending skills.

Difficult is classic 70's early 80's disco/r&b tracks with live drums. Blending that for 16+ bars separates the men from the boys easily.......lol


even that is way easier now with the waveforms and transients and key-lock allowing for less finesse in pitch riding or pushing and pulling without hearing the warpy sound...
DJ Art Pumpin Payne 2:40 AM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
Man stop playin, that's easy once you have a CDJ to give you flawless blending skills.


<sigh> yep - Fixed???

Don't get me wrong - I CAN'T scratch worth a shit but I took what I learned spinning House and like Sixxx/6 said above - use the DJ Intro tracks, run everything thru Mixed In Key or Keyfinder to avoid key clash and mix the ratchet shit like House tunes....

I find it more interesting programming, phrasing and beat mixing Rap (like House) especially since I scratch like shit...
pdidy 7:18 AM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So it takes a masters degree to stop a record and yell on a mic?

Actually I came from a (true) house background (no fist pump) and mixing traditional or deep house CAN be more complex than most hip hop rap Djs think.

When done right - a multi measure blend where baselines drop and strings come in can be magical - no 16 or 32 beats and out.

We are talking letting 2 records inter twine for 128 beats (not Bpms) or more. Soon as the strings drop on song - A - bassline comes in on song B - proper phrasing...

Add in twisting knobs to control the Bass - not difficult but definately not a cake walk to make some magic...

Just sayin...


Man stop playin, that's easy once you have developed flawless blending skills.

Difficult is classic 70's early 80's disco/r&b tracks with live drums. Blending that for 16+ bars separates the men from the boys easily.......lol


even that is way easier now with the waveforms and transients and key-lock allowing for less finesse in pitch riding or pushing and pulling without hearing the warpy sound...

naaa....i was talkin bout the real way but yes you are correct.
pdidy 8:30 AM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Man stop playin, that's easy once you have a CDJ to give you flawless blending skills.


<sigh> yep - Fixed???

Don't get me wrong - I CAN'T scratch worth a shit but I took what I learned spinning House and like Sixxx/6 said above - use the DJ Intro tracks, run everything thru Mixed In Key or Keyfinder to avoid key clash and mix the ratchet shit like House tunes....

I find it more interesting programming, phrasing and beat mixing Rap (like House) especially since I scratch like shit...


man aint nobody got time for that.......

an who lied to you and said cdj's give you flawless blending ? I have learned to love my cdjs but I personally blend better on my 1200's.

let me ask you this, prior to mixing in key..... has anyone ever,........ever ever ever noticed you were mixing out of key ? yea i'll wait......lol
The answer is no, but I totally agree it does sound better.

I will never mix hiphop, r&b or reggae in key because it does too much harm in limiting MY selections and creativity as apposed to sounding good. House music is my only exception to the rule....... Sure its a trade off but If given the option of weighing the two, I will always choose creativity because everyone can HEAR that while only a select few can hear key.
pdidy 9:05 AM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
I CAN'T scratch worth a shit

Scratching is so overrated at most gigs....and i can scratch.

I've found most people cant understand or appreciate the complexity of scratching other than those 4 or 5 dudes that come to the both and stare at you in awe. Therefore, over the years I've found myself Dumbing down my scratches and focusing more on selection, blending, dropping and yes...... Mic Work.....lol

I now only scratch to show off when required or to enhance the mix.....
djnak 9:06 AM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:

let me ask you this, prior to mixing in key..... has anyone ever,........ever ever ever noticed you were mixing out of key ?


yes....those tracks you would mix flawlessly but never sounded right...kinda like a trainwreck but you could clearly hear the beats were on....so you would avoid mixing those 2.....
pdidy 9:23 AM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
let me ask you this, prior to mixing in key..... has anyone ever,........ever ever ever noticed you were mixing out of key ?


yes....those tracks you would mix flawlessly but never sounded right...kinda like a trainwreck but you could clearly hear the beats were on....so you would avoid mixing those 2.....

nope

there are other option and techniques to avoid the very BAD key clash......you're just doing it wrong..........dropping, echoing out, filtering....
Joshua Carl 2:19 PM - 4 July, 2013
alot of us electronica guys have been using the camelot key wheel since the 90s...
Its certainly not a new practice.

when electronica "became" EDM is got simplified, dumbed down and topical.
Joshua Carl 2:27 PM - 4 July, 2013
sidebar read: www.discodemons.net
DJ Art Pumpin Payne 3:54 PM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
let me ask you this, prior to mixing in key..... has anyone ever,........ever ever ever noticed you were mixing out of key ?


yes....those tracks you would mix flawlessly but never sounded right...kinda like a trainwreck but you could clearly hear the beats were on....so you would avoid mixing those 2.....


Yep - ^^^this.... The DJ that does the 5 o'clock mix in my town usually has 1 or 2 key clashes a day sometimes. I used to think - damn he is REALLY STRUGGLING to get that mix in. Nope it just sounded like shit because of the key clash.

I know what you are saying but what I do is - if it sounds like shit MAYBE do a quick glance at the key and pick something closer instead trying to ride out a "sour" mix being "creative".

Especially mixing some of the sloooowww tempo 70 BPM or less tunes that are very melodic - creativity ain't gonna help those head nod tunes if blending and mixing - key clash makes it sound like you are killing a cat in the dj booth. (UONEO, Swimming Pools, Bitch don't kill my vibe, etc).

I'm not saying don't break the rules but I don't think we have EVER had to deal with mixing 65 or 70 BPMish shit other than slow songs until this decade. Back in the 90's and 2k you would be VERY selective if you to blend bump & grind or slow songs. Now you have to do that shit every time you play in a set "basically".

just sayin...
 6 4:04 PM - 4 July, 2013
Your memory is going old man. Dirty South became very popular in the late 90's and by early 2000+, you found yourself doing sets of very low BPM's.

nm
DJ Art Pumpin Payne 4:19 PM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
Your memory is going old man. Dirty South became very popular in the late 90's and by early 2000+, you found yourself doing sets of very low BPM's.

nm

Naw- give me Examples?
Most of that stuff averaged around 80 bpm or more - shit like Lil Jon - I Don't Give Fuck or Bia Bia (yep-key clash candidate), even the No Limit Mystikal - shit, C- Murder or something like Youndbloodz were all pushing 90ish... Drop and Give Me 50... around 90

Shit now you got me pulling put my gig computer...

Some Cut - Trillville 85, ok - lil scrappy head bussa was 78, knuck - 75, no problem - 86

Your favorite Soulja Boy - Crank that was late 2k - and that was around 70 - kinda started the whole VERY low tempo rap trend...
Kool DJ Sheak One 5:03 PM - 4 July, 2013
I play both genres... At the same damn time!

Like Soo said, Back in the good ole bad days,with EDM, the phrasing had to be on point or you are done for that mix. But with Hip Hop, you have more chances at fixing stuff due to shorter transitions.

I find that my countless hours of scratching and rocking doubles with Hip Hop, helped me with doing super-long epic blends when playing EDM.

Most Hip Hop DJs can't blend for more than 2 bars.

And most EDM DJs have shakey-ass hands on the faders,,smoke, text and do other non-DJ related activities.
Mr. Goodkat 6:13 PM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Your memory is going old man. Dirty South became very popular in the late 90's and by early 2000+, you found yourself doing sets of very low BPM's.

nm

Naw- give me Examples?
Most of that stuff averaged around 80 bpm or more - shit like Lil Jon - I Don't Give Fuck or Bia Bia (yep-key clash candidate), even the No Limit Mystikal - shit, C- Murder or something like Youndbloodz were all pushing 90ish... Drop and Give Me 50... around 90

Shit now you got me pulling put my gig computer...

Some Cut - Trillville 85, ok - lil scrappy head bussa was 78, knuck - 75, no problem - 86

Your favorite Soulja Boy - Crank that was late 2k - and that was around 70 - kinda started the whole VERY low tempo rap trend...


lil keke is a houston legend and paved the way for the paul walls and mike jones. HIs first cd has a screwed song... at 77 bpm. some of the screw of that gen was 10 bpms faster than current hits. but then again, big pimpin came out in 00 and it was 67 bpm.
djnak 6:29 PM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
there are other option and techniques to avoid the very BAD key clash......you're just doing it wrong..........dropping, echoing out, filtering....


did you just admit to making an attempt at mixing in key or AVOIDING key clashes pre m.i.k. hmmmmm...
pdidy 6:32 PM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
there are other option and techniques to avoid the very BAD key clash......you're just doing it wrong..........dropping, echoing out, filtering....


did you just admit to making an attempt at mixing in key or AVOIDING key clashes pre m.i.k. hmmmmm...

No you missed the point.
pdidy 6:38 PM - 4 July, 2013
I'm saying, why force a bad blend when you have better options like dropping ect...
dj_soo 10:51 PM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:

let me ask you this, prior to mixing in key..... has anyone ever,........ever ever ever noticed you were mixing out of key ? yea i'll wait......lol
The answer is no, but I totally agree it does sound better.


I noticed. Lots of people notice. Even the ones who didn't know what was happening knew that there was something off with a key clash.

You never had to mark your keys or have these labels, you just had to make sure you didn't do bad key clashes and that was it.

I also remember going through track after track, mix after mix, record after record, until I found those two tracks that just mixed perfectly together partially because they were in key.

People think mixing in key means you have to consciously choose what record to play following whatever classical theory of harmony says to mix which isn't true. It just means avoiding key clashes and remembering complimentary key mixes...
DJ Art Pumpin Payne 11:34 PM - 4 July, 2013
Quote:

People think mixing in key means you have to consciously choose what record to play following whatever classical theory of harmony says to mix which isn't true. It just means avoiding key clashes and remembering complimentary key mixes...

^^^this - like I said - if I hear a potential key clash in the headphones - ill scan my immediate library and see if I can find something "more compatible" - its not about using that key/wheel as a crutch
dj_soo 12:16 AM - 5 July, 2013
yup. The biggest problem I see with these n00bs using Mixed in Key or whatever is that a lot of them never trained their ear to know what a key clash actually is and just blindly follow the numbers spit out by the program. The problem is that the programs are at best only about 50% accurate and on top of that, you miss out on some great mixes if all you do is read the numbers.

All these technological shortcuts - including things like sync, bpm readouts, key tags, bar counters, etc - are doing is making the n00bs think they can run before they've even learned how to crawl and when they stumble at some point they don't even realize that they're fucking up because they never learned the basics to begin with.
dj_soo 12:18 AM - 5 July, 2013
Rane actually just put up a blog post about using key tagging software here: dj.rane.com

pretty good read although it's nothing new for any of the vets here.
DJ DisGrace 12:46 AM - 5 July, 2013
Quote:
We are talking letting 2 records inter twine for 128 beats (not Bpms) or more. Soon as the strings drop on song - A - bassline comes in on song B - proper phrasing...

Funk Phenomenon vs Witch Doktor.... could let those mix foreeeevvvver

"the funk phenomenon, untz, the witch doktor, untz, untz, the funk phenomenon, untz, the witch doktor"

Quote:
Quote:
let me ask you this, prior to mixing in key..... has anyone ever,........ever ever ever noticed you were mixing out of key ?


yes....those tracks you would mix flawlessly but never sounded right...kinda like a trainwreck but you could clearly hear the beats were on....so you would avoid mixing those 2.....

Yup, the first time I tried to mix Spacedust and Stardust... ouch!
DJ Reflex 2:59 AM - 5 July, 2013
Try Don Henley's "All she wants to do is dance" with INXS "What you need". I love this mix - the saxes seem to blend well together in each. Not typical dance music, but the beat is around 116 or so and the bass is heavy enough to punch the floor. I use these at retro gigs all the time.
DJ Reflex 3:04 AM - 5 July, 2013
DJ DisGrace - Funk Phenomenon is great tune for a ton of mixes. Good choice!
DJ Remy USA 2:17 PM - 5 July, 2013
I use Mixed in Key but you still have to cue in the headphones to make sure its a good mix. Anyone who blindly lets technology do the DJing for them is not really a DJ but glorified computer juke box.

I love mixed in key I wouldnt have found some incredible mixes without that software because I would have though to mix Bojangles with Ting Tings Shut Up and Let me go. What a fuking awesome mix.

Anyways still gotta use your ears and Im still considered a novice to intermediate DJ only been spinning for 7 years now and still learning new shit everytime.

Anyways rock out guys all genres take different skill to mix not one is more challenging than the other just different
DJ DisGrace 2:31 PM - 5 July, 2013
Quote:

Anyways rock out guys all genres take different skill to mix not one is more challenging than the other just different

+1

This is a pretty subjective debate...

Which one is technically harder? Depends on how you play....

Which crowd is tougher to please? Depends on where you play...
SELECT 3:10 PM - 5 July, 2013
They both are as hard or easy to spin as you make it. Its all in the creativity and skill of the DJ behind the decks, not the genre. I spin both and find it easier to stay in a groove and mix with EDM just because the BPMs dont vary as much. With hip hop, reggae, rnb, funk, latin, funk, soul its a contant thought process of how to get in and out of bpm range and not kill the dancefloor. Not to mention there is more looping and work involved since a lot of older tracks dont have 1-2 minute intros.

Mixing EDM or Hip Hop isnt the hard part, its putting it together in a creative way that separates the amateurs from the pros.
SELECT 3:10 PM - 5 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Anyways rock out guys all genres take different skill to mix not one is more challenging than the other just different

+1

This is a pretty subjective debate...

Which one is technically harder? Depends on how you play....

Which crowd is tougher to please? Depends on where you play...


Exactly.
DJ Mozo 3:19 PM - 5 July, 2013
But honestly, how often do you hear the new cats being on with their phrasing? I know all the veteran djs who spun house on vinyl back in the day obviously know what they're doing.
For the most part, how often is it that phrasing becomes something that is used regularly? Nowadays, most of the time, its hit the drop, filter out, hit the drop filter out... I've seen times when the guy spinning should have been blending etc, but wasn't and was just slamming tracks together.. It was his first time trying to use straight cdjs instead of traktor plus laptop.. it was a fun trainweck to watch only cuz he's a prick of a dj lol..
DJ Remy USA 3:59 PM - 5 July, 2013
Quote:
But honestly, how often do you hear the new cats being on with their phrasing? I know all the veteran djs who spun house on vinyl back in the day obviously know what they're doing.
For the most part, how often is it that phrasing becomes something that is used regularly? Nowadays, most of the time, its hit the drop, filter out, hit the drop filter out... I've seen times when the guy spinning should have been blending etc, but wasn't and was just slamming tracks together.. It was his first time trying to use straight cdjs instead of traktor plus laptop.. it was a fun trainweck to watch only cuz he's a prick of a dj lol..


alot of the EDM DJs in my town are starting to pop up using traktor or strictly CD or USB sticks using record box. Still all in they are using sync and dropping tracks in the same way everytime. Although they are very good at song selection and keeping the party hype after 45 minutes of EDM all crowds in DC appear to be bored with the music and want some hip hop or some other genre.

Clubs are slowly but surely loosing formats and going strictly open at most of the nicer spots. The only pure spots are hood spots which only want hood music. But EDM spots eventhough the promoter tries to push EDM only the crowd complains all night about us only playing techno and wanting to here something else....anyways kinda got off topic
DJ Mozo 6:10 PM - 5 July, 2013
That's why when I do strictly EDM stuff, I'll stray and always drop something that represents me. Just this past Wednesday, I threw in Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, at a breakdown. It worked flawlessly. Everyone singing the words and then when it dropped back into the beat, everyone was still with it. Later in the set, threw in some This is How we do it - Montell Jordan, as a breakdown. then later into only a few trap(only 3 songs) I think that being able to switch bpms and even for a little bit just straying from the beaten path of 128bpm definitely played to my advantage. The other djs for the evening stayed at 128, played the beatport top 100 and trainwrecked.. And another dj played some underground dubstep stuff, (his own productions) which don't get me wrong were good stuff, just not the stuff for the crowd.
Topic.. where'd you go? lol.
Caley Martin 7:25 PM - 5 July, 2013
I may be in the minority here, but, from time to time I love to warm up my sets with some good hip hop. I've been spinning predominately deep house for about 13 years now, but about 4 years ago my ears were exposed to the Mushroom Jazz type sounds (better late than never!). I immediately began researching different artists that appealed to me and everything branched off from there... I now have a sizable collection of different genres in the 80-100bpm range, mostly old hip hop instrumentals from the 90s. I frickin' love that old smokey jazzy spacey sound. I definitely found a new appreciation in learning how to adapt my mixing styles/techniques for slower genres... timing, cutting a transition quickly, phrasing properly with vocals, looping, etc... it was definitely rough at first, but eventually it made sense to me. With a little bit of time and love, I think a DJ who spins electronic music can absolutely adapt and integrate slower genres into their sets. And, a neat side effect, at least in my experience, is that I've noticed improvements in mixing the usual deep house that I play... so it's been a pretty enjoyable ride thus far.