Software help archive

A read-only archive of old serato.com help threads.

PnT best before or after mix down and effects?

Product
Pitch 'n Time LE
Version
-
Hardware
Ortofon | Serato S-120
Computer
-
OS
Platform
-
vibedaddy 8:03 PM - 10 September, 2006
I've been trying the demo version of PnT LE to take an entire Pro Tools session up a few clicks in tempo (only) to give more life to a track. I started by carefully adjusting the tempo of each individual track of the session (in Pro Tools grid mode) and changing the PnT mono and multi mode setting for mono and stereo tracks accordingly.

Overall the results are very good (much better than anything else I've tried) but a few things are audibly noticable if listened to closely (especially while soloing tracks). One is a "phf" attack sound on notes of higher pitch instruments (vibes, high conga drum etc.) that are busy note wise. I've also noticed a slight worble on sustain notes when the mix is played back together (oddlly enough it's not in the track when soloed).

For this purpose is it better to use PnT on individual tracks of a session one at a time before effects and mix down (as I did) or would the results be better (the same or worse) using PnT on a completed stereo file after everything has been mixed down?

Thanks for any suggestions.
Serato
Josh 10:49 PM - 10 September, 2006
hi vibedaddy,

try processing the whole session in mono mode, as multi-channel mode is only needed for tracks that you need strictly in-phase. If you're stereo miking instruments chances are they won't be exactly in-phase and forcing coherency usually has pretty poor results.

let us know how you get on :-)


Josh
vibedaddy 7:59 PM - 20 September, 2006
Well I've been experimenting but feel a little like I'm shooting the dark. The results are good but the sound quality does become slightly muddy or fuzzy compared to the original. One thing I've figured out, in answer to my own question, is to use PnT before any EQ or effects then use EQ to try and hide any sound anomalies. Otherwise the EQ and effects can make anomalies, such as the "phf" attack sound I hear, more noticable.

I'm confused about when to use Mono versus Multi mode though. For stereo overhead mic tracks Josh suggested using Mono mode on the stereo track (if I understood correctly). What about for several percussion or drum set mics (each mic a mono track). Would you use Mono mode again or Multi mode on these tracks? What is an example where Multi mode would be used?

P.S. Does the registered version come with a user manuel? If so does it help any?
Serato
Josh 6:29 AM - 21 September, 2006
You're quite right about using Pitch 'n Time before signal processing generally giving better results. To me the likely reason would be that there is almost always an associated phase shift of the affected frequencies. With complex frequency content over 2 or more channels, we end up with complex phase relationships that are constantly changing as the effect unit responds to the makeup of the input.

Pitch 'n Time doesn't change the phase of the audio at all (except in multi-channel mode). So while the phase is the same in the output, the time scale is changed, and chances are the phase relationships won't exactly match what would result if we had applied our effects to the TC/E'd audio.

Then again if you're EQing to fix phase problems, you might be better off doing that prior to Pitch 'n Time, so as usual it's best to experiment to find what suits the situation.

In the case of Pitch 'n Time mono and multi aren't describing the material they're best suited for, but rather the way in which it carries out it's processing. That is, in mono mode each track is processed independently whereas multi channel mode alters them all together forcing them in phase with each other.

Multi channel mode is only useful when you need to force multiple signals into phase. It's a drastic change which really won't suit anything except those specific cases where it's called for, such as multiple tracks of the same instrument with wildly different effects applied, playing back in sync. Phase cancellation might be messing up the result of pitch shifting them all down an octave, so pulling them into phase is necessary.

you can grab a PDF of the manual from the downloads page - www.serato.com
vibedaddy 2:43 PM - 21 September, 2006
It seems, for the most part, Mono mode is the one to use and that Multi mode is used under special circumstances. If this is the case, why is Multi mode the default setting when PnT opens? Wouldn't it make more sense to have Mono mode be the default? It's very easy to use Multi mode by mistake this way.