it says that article is not there, if you could cut an paste it, that would work

here's the correct link: www.djtechtools.com
ima read it later thx for postin this tho

Wow. I disagreed with almost all of it. Undercutting is a bad idea. You shouldn't just DJ a wedding because it's easy and for the money. Leave that shit to real wedding DJs, in the end everyone will get paid more. Throwing in extra services, especially PROMOTING, is a bad idea. Thats been talked about on the board already.

To be fair, there were some good points, but overall I disagreed with most of it.

In reference to undercutting, I'm thinking he might have meant to don't be undercutting like an idiot...

A bit undecided on that article to be honest. Some good points but most of it needs expanding on. I have a hard time in the past at one of my residencies with under qualified dj's trying to be the sound engineer and royally fucking things up or making my life difficult.

DJ for free or drinks? GTFOH!!

I didn't even notice that bit.

Thank you! I'm sick of people taking gigs like weddings, and then not having a clue. If you want to get into weddings, shaddow someone on a number of gigs to learn the ropes!

"Ask him how much money would normally go into the Jukebox, and use that as a starting rate to shoot for."

LMFAO. **Cries a little bit**

This is Ground Control to Major Tom
You've really made the grain
And the papers want to know whose shirts you wear
Now it's time to leave the capsule if you dare
This is Major Tom to Ground Control
I'm stepping through the door
And I'm floating in the most impeculuar way
And the stars look very different today

LOL

www.gonemovies.com

"This LZ is still a little hot, don't you think we should surf some place else?"

"What do you know about surfing Major? You're from god damn New Jersey"

"Dont you think it's a little risky for R&R sir?"

"If I say it's safe to surf this beach captain, it's safe to surf this beach! I'll surf this beach, I ain't afraid to fuckin surf this fuckin beach!"

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know one time we had a hill bombed for 12 hours, when it was over I walked one and didn't find one of them, not one fuckin dink body. That smell....the whole hill, smelled like......Victory. One day this war is gonna be over."


Fucking love that movie

CHARLIE DON'T SURF!!!!

***Right after a helicoptor and crew explodes****

"Lance! Lance! What do you think?"

" ah yea sir, it's pretty exciting"

"No, the waves, the waves! Look, breaks both ways....SIX FOOT SWELLS!!!"

I agree with parts of it, but I also disagree with others.

LOL! Who the fuck is this clown that wrote this? What a joke.

Thats a funny article. All in general good ideas. but whatever you do, don't cut your price. If everyone is cutting prices, you are telling people that your skills are equal to the other cost cutting djs that probably are using ipods, burnt mixes etc. if anything, work the other angle, charge more, make people feel like whoa, they must have something special. You can tell people, "Other djs might charge less, but they don't have what I have". If you need to negotiate, offer up a package upgrade.

1) diversify your gigs: I agree with the general statement. but to say weddings are crappy gigs is not accurate. Weddings can be crappy gigs if you let them be. take control of the wedding. Don't let it be a crappy gig. As someone who doesn't do a lot of wedding (but probably will in 5 years), I have had many a wedding be just as fun as the club.

small bars: great idea. but work a promotional angle if you have the sales skills. Say, he I normally play for $300 a night. But i will cut you a break but I want to prove I can bring people in here. Let me get a % of the bar if things get better. or a % of the door



2) Change your music style: Again agree. But just because you do hip hop, doesn't mean you can gonna excel at latin music, or house. Being narrow minded with music is lame anyways.

3) Get A Residency: i don't know how many times a friend of mine has gotten a solid high paying gig beacuse he went into a struggling venue with a nice location and bad sound and offered to help them out. You become more than a dj, you will be relied upon. The stickler here is to get shit in writing if the club gets poppin. They could screw you real quick

He's an idiot.

Want to get more gigs? Understand what the hell you're supposed to be doing. You do bar/club work? Study a few books on bar management and the bar business. Work to understand what they need from entertainment. Learn the 'financial' terms used in the bar business.

I worked a local venue for a while. When I came in I talked with them about the work, and what they wanted. We tried some stuff, but in the end it didn't work out. But here's the difference - we BOTH knew it wasn't working (I was doing karaoke for them). But I LISTENED. I talked with him about what he wanted, what they wanted for the bar, and we talked frankly about the business side of things. In the end, I left on good terms and once they make some changes they'll bring me back. It helped that I managed a bar for a while, and previously worked as a bartender. I knew the lingo, I knew the financials, and what was expected.

Weddings.... wow.... He's a dumbass to the nth degree.

If you want to make some 'quick' money - do backyard parties and small stuff. Don't jump into the wedding market without being prepared. If you don't understand the ettiquette and other stuff involved you can ruin a wedding faster than you can make it better. In the end, if you don't know what you're doing you'll get a bad reputation amongst other vendors and you can even get blackballed. I've seen one DJ they won't let play at some venues because of his business practices. Trust me, do NOT go into weddings or mitzvahs unless you're prepared to spend some time studying. I have at least 20 books on weddings and I refer to them often. A weddings is NOT easy money if you do it RIGHT.


Want more gigs? Want higher paying gigs? Learn to market yourself effectively. Read the trends in music and adjust accordingly. Don't undercut others. Build a unique 'brand' of 'brand YOU'. It works for me and in a market where the company with 29 years in business is doing $395 weddings I'm charging roughly 4 times as much.

Oh yea... I forgot one thing...

ASS CLOWN.

Lol. MM. You're normally a lot more composed than that.

Yea, I know... but people like this who would destroy someone's wedding day for a quick buck really pisses me off.

I've spent over $5K in the last year on training. I have over $10K invested in equipment. I have at least 20 books on wedding ettiquette, traditions, etc that I've read. I read bridal magazines to stay up on trends. I spend at least 2 hours a month working on public speaking. I spend countless hours with my clients making their events special and flow smoothly.

And this ass clown thinks that anyone with a pair of speakers and some spare time can 'do a wedding' for a quick buck.

Sorry everyone.... but I have a very low tolerance for uncaring assholes with the IQ just below that of a pet rock.

NEED WE NEED A REMINDER?!?! Watchwww.youtube.com

MM, what did $5K in training costs consist of? I don't doubt that it takes a lot of time and effort to be a good wedding dj, but that seems a little excessive

Ok, that figure is a 'little' misleading because it includes travel and lodging. ;-)

But a rough breakdown?

Toastmaster's for the year

Travel from Pensacola, Fl to Los Angeles, and back
Attending Winter NAMM
Master of Ceremonies Workshop (in LA)

Travel from P'cola, Fl to Las Vegas and back
Attending Mobile Beat Las Vegas
Love Story Workshop

Travel to Greenville, Tennessee and return
Attending Appalachian Regional Mobile Disc Jockey Symposium (ARMDJS)


There's a good chance I'll be attending the Computer DJ Summit (CDJS) in Atlanta in November.

DVD's on marketing, performance, and other related areas.

And that's not including about $1000 in books I've bought over the last year on marketing, wedding ettiquette, and magazines to stay on top of trends and the like.

Next year, I'm hoping to hit Winter NAMM, MBLV, ARMDJS, CDJS, and 2 more workshops (maybe more). I'm trying to make arrangements for a multi-day consultation to improve my business as well. I've also been investigating taking classes at the local community college on lighting effects, public speaking, comedy, etc.


In short, all of this training is an investment in be becoming that much better at my job.

And if I was spending only $1500 a year, it's still $1500 more than pretty much every other DJ in my market is spending.


As for excessive.... think of it this way...

The average DJ in my area charges $400-$500 for a wedding. I charge $1500 and will be at either $2000 or $2500 after the 1st of the year. I currently charge $650 for a wedding ceremony and it's likely going to $750 after the first of the year.

It's the difference between a college graduate and a high school graduate. I'm investing in educating myself, and becoming not just a little better, but a LOT better. I want to be at $4K or more before I 'vest' at my day job in 4 years and have the option of being 100% full time as a mobile DJ. You won't get to those levels without investing in some education to become better. In short, I won't take a pay cut to leave my 'day job' as an IT manager.

BTW, at the last toastmaster's meeting I read one of the Love Stories I did for a couple back in July. When I was done I was asked if I did voice over work. And if that pans out, there's a good chance it will be yet another revenue stream for my business.

Education is almost never a poor investment. I went to bartending school when I was in Alaska. Turns out when I left my IT job there I ended up bartending and later managing a bar. All because I invested in proper training.

Just to clarify, as a lot of people seem to have mis-interpreted our article. We NEVER said you should only get paid in drinks or always play for free. The point was that in hard times, you need to get your foot in the door. Once your foot is in the door and a small bar believes your valuable THEN you can ask for more money and a regualr gig.

Look at the following example that was posted in our comments, this is exactly what i am talking about. Its these kinds of people that will always rise above the rest because they think OUTSIDE the box.

"
me and a couple of buddies came up with a solution we were getting paid 80 pound to dj for 4 hours on a sat night in a local bar, standard sat night routine but with the greater numbers coming in the door we spoke to the owner and said right once a month on a sat we will put on “A NIGHT” 2 or 3 dj’s of differing style i.e me and my mates and i knocked up a couple of flyers that we stick up in the bar the weeks before the gig and the guy offered to put a promo on some drinks and instead of a basic wage the owner said ok no basic pay but 5% of the total bar takings. (if its empty we lose out and if if full we do good and no risk for the bar owner) Last month we walked out with 500 quid.
"

500 to split between 2 or 3 DJs? Still shit money. especially considering that the other saturdays you do it for 80 so you figure your total take for the month was 740 bringing your average to 185 a night. Sounds like your still gettin the short end of the stick to me. Maybe you should negotiate a base pay along with that 5% of the bar

Dynamite, just so you know 500 quid is, I believe, about $1000.00 dollars U.S.

oh, is it?
lol
I'm not familiar with unamerican money

I must recalculate then

Recalculate and then hit us with the new analysis.

Either way its an improvement...since 80 pound is roughly $150.00 U.S.

so then it would be 1450 for the month, averaging 362.50 per night. Not bad, but also not guaranteed. Now is that before or after you split it with the other DJs? Because you did say "WE" walked out with 500 quid, not "I"

what club do you dj at that you make more than 362.50 a night, guaranteed?

I'm not picking a fight or anything, I'm just saying that clubs in socal pay way less

I'm in the NY/NJ area. It's alot different over here if you know how to politic

fair enough. but that's not going to apply to most djs out trying to get gigs.

also, If it's 362.50 and you have to split it between 2 or 3 DJs then that really isn't much at all

True, but that's why I say to negotiate a base pay plus a percentage of bar sales. That way if you have a slow night at least you make something instead of nothing

I think that's good advice

Ok, I didn't misinterpret the article, but clubs/bars here may be different than they are in the UK.

First and foremost, a quid is the same as a pound sterling, or GBP (based on my research). Currently, 500GBP=$864.208. And since most bars are willing to pay up to 10% of the pour, they got paid about HALF what they should have.

Here in the states, bars love to take advantage of people. They'll bring you, have you DJ for free, build the night up, and then drop you for someone else who is willing to do it for nothing.

In short, there is ALWAYS someone who is willing to work for less. Price based marketing is not sustainable - just ask Wal-Mart. Eventually others will find your advantage, duplicate it, and you're not able to compete on price.

You're better off finding creative ways to get buy outside of playing for 'less' or even 'nothing'. And even getting your foot in the door is a poor excuse to play for nothing or a couple pitchers of beer.

What those guys did is ADMIRABLE. They took some risk while minimizing what the bar was risking, took some initiative, and made some bank. I applaud them - but they never played for free. They had the POTENTIAL to play for free, which is VERY different.

I stand by my wedding comments as well but I won't go down that path again, because it would likely end in me calling someone an ass clown or something similar again.

This whole article (How To Get Gigs In Hard Times) serves the purpose of one thing: Getting gigs! Sure, you'll get gigs, but you won't get the money you deserve for playing those gigs - which essentially will keep the hard times coming... especially for you.

I'm an established DJ, and one thing I've noticed is that in "hard times" it's a lot easier for me to get work. Why? because all the "wannabes" out there either can't afford gear, or are busy working two jobs and have no time to DJ.

With that being said, if you want to spin the corner bar for free drinks - go ahead. As a beginner, you're probably not at the level you need to be anyway. Add some drinks to the mix and you're be train wrecking and puking on your gear.

But to enter the wedding market takes planning skills, production skills and of course, performance skills. Not to mention that the nicer reception halls will require you to have liability insurance. One the devils advocate side though, If you want to enter the wedding market and scoop up some budget weddings at fire halls, why not? Everyone's gotta start somewhere.

Read the original comment and you will see that they went from making 80 pounds between 3 people to making 500 pounds. All because they were willing to take nothing. They said to the bar, hey if you don't make money- we wont make money. Let us show you our value. They got a 400% raise because they didn't "stick to their guns" as some people are suggesting. Now they are in a position to also ask for a guarantee.




Once you get the gig, you can get more if you do a good job. Thats the goal. Djing full time is a business, and this is a solid business strategy.



When is the last time you made the effort to go out and help someone other than yourself? Next time you decide to call someone an asshole or an ass wipe, I recommend you do your research first. i have invested my full time building a site that is DEDICATED to helping djs become better. You have a problem with a suggestion, ignore it.

But until you have actually done something to warrant respect of your opinion I would recommend obtaining from trashing others.

Where'd the article go?

www.djtechtools.com

Comments section get intresting.

And if you actually read my comment you'd see that I applaud them taking a risk to land a great payday. However, bar owners in the states generally are willing to pay up to 10% of the pour out to entertainment. In short, they could have gotten much more.

But that aside, I don't have a problem with 'risk'...




The problem is that most bar owners won't take that next step to paying you. I've seen it time and time again. For DJ's, for Karaoke guys, even bands. They offer to play for nothing and when they demand money, they find someone else willing to play for free.

And if you take a gig 'on the cheap' they search to find someone who's cheaper. I've seen that time after time again. Sometimes, they'll hire someone on as an employee just to get them even cheaper and cut you loose the minute they get someone cheaper. In short, there is no loyalty from the 'average' bar owner or manager in the states. These tactics don't work.



Let's see... I've spent years helping people in the DJ field. I beta test, I help moderate at least 3 different boards, post on a half dozen others, I've even posted here for years (and don't own the product!) and helped countless DJ's make REAL decisions that helped their business to suceed and make more money. I also help my local DJ's - including covering a number of events for a DJ that was in a car accident - at money so far below my normal rates it should have been considered rape. Ask Julls about my booking gigs for him while he was serving in Iraq - and I took NOTHING - no booking fee or anything else. Before you make assumptions on who I am and what I've done you might want to actually talk with me first... or hey, ask sixxx or some of the others who've been around here for a while.

To clarify, in tough times going cheap isn't what gets you gigs. Being unique. Being someone people want to hire. Learning to take risks, like the guys you mentioned. Learning to sell. Learning to market. Learning about the places you work or want to work, the business model, and helping to find out what they really need/want and helping them to make that happen. I've RAISED my rates and now make MORE money than I did before and do LESS work. I now charge 4 times the market average, and get it regularly. According to your recommendations I should work for nothing to get my 'foot in the door'? I think not. And need I point out that I moved 5000 miles and started a new company from scratch only 18 months ago? How about some advice that REALLY works?

And if you want to talk tough times? Trust me, it's about as tough as it gets here in the states... between the banks and government being greedy idiots we're screwed.

+1 on that. MM does alot locally, and online. While everyone wanted to be greedy when I went to Iraq, MM stepped up and said, "Hey, I'll keep your biz floating and book gigs for you". He didn't keep one dime (nada, zip, ziltch). He did it out of the kindness of his heart. That's what real friends do. Yeah, we might not see eye to eye on everything and fight over retarded shit, but at the end of the day we're still friends with each other and other local jocks even though I'm a hardass and an asshole at times.

Yeah, you reall are an asshole. :-P

man, i know i could possibly get more gigs if i had better mic skills. i just hate talking on the mic!

Toastmaster's International. Join now - attend the meetings, do the workbook and you'll be comfortable on the mic in no time.

And that's just the start... I'm competing on Tuesday in a local speech competition.

Good luck with that MM

ummmm. DING!

did you just call mm a wavie?

what is a wavie? in toast masters if you say umm,so, or anything "fill-in" like like, yeah, and um, so, ya know, they ring a bell every single time ya know DING, like, DING, you umm DING,

Some clubs have a bell for when you use a filler word in a conversation...

Things like:

Uhm....
Uhhhh.....
You know....

And for those who want to make more money, not just in DJ'ing, effective communication is a BIG part of that. Toastmasters can help with that.

Ahhh....I see.