First, I would like to hear the opinions from others and facts from the moderators.

FRom what I have read so far, the main problem is that the gain adjust is _after_ the input, so its just a digital scaleing. So anything which comes in too loud, will have their peaks cut off, and anything which is too low in volume will not use the full digital headroom.

If this is true, this is a major flaw and the SSL box is not good for recording your vinyls, IMHO.

I cant comment on the actual quality of the AD's

So I wouldnt sell the m-box at all.

Nik39 is correct. The SL 1 hardware is not designed to archive vinyl from directly connected turntables. The feature that allows sampling from phono level inputs is intended just for that - quick sampling for effect, where the highest fidelity is not a priority.

The A/Ds are very clean 16 bit converters, but there is no gain control on the inputs - it simply wasn't necessary for tracking control vinyl, and to include it would have increased the retail price unnecessarily. Listed on p.24 of the manual rane.com are the output specs. I'll see if I can find you the measured input converter specs.

If you wish to get the best input recording performance out of the SL 1 hardware, use a separate phono pre-amp (ideally with gain control) and record at line level. If you want 24-bit recordings use an MP 4 or other 24-bit soundcard (eg Mbox).

Thanks for the clarification.

Are the phono pre-amps inside the SSL unit the same ones used in the TTM56? If not do they compare quality wise? (Idea would be using the TTM56 as the phono pre-amp.)

The dynamic range of the A/Ds is 90 dB when set to line level. This drops to 77 dB when set to phono level (relative to a 9.5 mV input). Using the 56 as a pre-amp would give you much better performance.

It would rock if you would increase the retail price and make a version that had better recording ability. The set up and tear down time on my external sound card is such a hassle. Also, if you did a poll of folks with SSL you can bet everyone is buying nice sound cards. Before SSL I had one decent sound card. Now I have $600 into two new ones (one for home one for the road). It is out of hand. I also had to get a decent recording program... it's a 6 of 1 half dozen of the other type of deal. If you have SSL your gonna need a nice soundcard, might as well pony up and have an integrated solution. Just my $.02

Is there any way we could use an external soundcard to record directly into SSL at least? I find I'm wasting a lot of time getting the recordings into SSL after I capture them in my recording program... suggestions welcome on how to minimize that drama...

Thanks for the suggestion Yaz. I'll add it to the wish-list for the SL 2. The trouble is there's so many wishes on the list that that it's almost guaranteed to cost more.

Another solution is to get the 57. It uses 24-bit converters with noise performance at least 12dB better on both line and phono sources.

so, SL2 is in the production stage?

No, "wish list" as in definitely not this year.

Nik, there are no "Phono Pre amps inside the SL1.

Uhm no? Does this mean we have only a RIAA converter as software?

I think that is a joke, either way, I'm lost...

I'm lost... what are trying to say to me?

Nik what are you asking?

You said, there are no phono pre amps in the SL1, and I asked you how is that? Does the SL1 has RIAA converting inside the software starting to read a phono signal via the line in? Then you might have said its a joke (cant see the laugh...) and then "I'm lost". I dont understand you ;)

Nik, got it . There is no "phono pre amp" in the SL1. If there was then you couldn't record from a CD or it would sound like hot garbage. The box has a very slight boost of signal but it is not a "Phono Pre Amp". If you are asking how SSL records a record, that is completely different question.

Eh... why? It can have a switch between straight pass thru (line level) and phono pre-amp. I dont see a contradiction here.

The box is simply a pass of signal. Thats it. The software does the calculation to my knowledge.
Now if your asking about the thru's then those are exactly what they are thrus' Signal is unaltered no matter what you send through it.

I am not talking about the thrus. I am not saying its not passing the signal, thats what it does. But I dont understand why you have the idea they dont have any phono pre-amps. To me its quite obvious, thats how the control signal is read from phono signal, thats how you can sample from phono. What am I missing?

Steve, SSL has proven itself to be so valuable, that I really think that when SSL2 does come out (someday) that it should have the best quality features that are possible. Knowing what I know now, I would easily pay more for these features. I think for the most part that everyone here would pay more for a high quality all in one box with top of line components. Just something to consider.. peace

Nik39, the software does that. Not the box. I asked the same question weeks ago.

There are pre-amps in the SL 1 to boost the input gain, but no RIAA equalization. (Again, was not necessary to read control signal.) When you sample from vinyl this is done in software, and amounts to roughly 18dB of gain @ 40Hz, no gain at 1kHz, and 20dB of cut at 20kHz. This worsens the noise performance at low frequencies but improves it at high frequencies.

I think you misunderstood the answers, assume thats the thread scratchlive.net <-click. You should read over.

Thanks Steve... Thats exactly what I said.

Uhm, okay. Thanks Steve.

nik, read what you wrote. Details my friend. Details. Second question was

There are input gain amps on the SL1, thats what the phono/line switch inside the SSL software -> hardware is for. I just didnt know that you were after the RIAA curve, I thought both (gain amp+curve) is combined. Anyway, facts straightened up, issue solved. Lets move on :)

Yeah, I got your statement now :) We can really move on :-)

Next, to get back on topic.... Everyone should go get a NEVE A/D converter.

J/k

I think I've got that kind of money, around $50 a channel right? ;)

So Steve...

This means that in the conventional setup (IE without recording via the line inputs) we could record vinyl at 24bits? I don't understand all the RIAA stuff... but ultimately all I want to know is if I buy a 57 and record all my vinyl in through SSL am I going to be upset I did later? Will I have to redo it? Can I use those recording on the radio and at big clubs on big systems without compromising on sound in any huge way? I'm interested in peoples thoughts on this...

The current firmware in the 57 only allows 16-bit recordings to the PC. We're exploring ways of supporting 24-bit recording, but frankly the noise from your TT will drown out any loss of quality caused by the conversion to 16-bit.

Thanks Steve.

Hi Steve,

Could you kindly provide the gain curve or some phono input convertor specs so I that I can understand the quality of the samples I record from the Serato box?

I need this info to decide if I should record my vinyl using the Serato box, or through my mixer. Somehow, the higher frequencies and vocal presence on the recordings from my Vestax PMC 007 appear to be lacking compared to the Serato recordings. It is strange, coz the mixer recording is supposed to be better, and I'm using a pretty good Creative X-Fi card.