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Turntablists:What makes a "clean" scratch?
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Turntablists:What makes a "clean" scratch?

bassµnkie 7:28 AM - 17 July, 2008
I'm starting to get into turntablism more and more and I've been wondering...what is it that makes a good scratch? Aside from being rhythmically correct, of course. Now, to some this may be kind of a ridiculous question, but to those that understand that turntables, when used in terms of turntablism, are actual musical instruments, this isn't such an absurd question. Piano players can be sloppy, guitar players can definately be sloppy, drum players can be sloppy, turntablists can be sloppy. Comparing this to guitar playing I know that, in guitar playing, how you pick can effect the sound (like if you scrape the string rather than strum it, meaning you're holding the pick wrong, or you're playing the strings vertically rather than horizontally), in turntables, the samples you use, the movements of your hands [i.e. whether your thumb accidentally bumps the record from time to time causeing a bump in the sound when played loud; or having your tears (i think thats what they're called. I mean the scratch that's faderless and is done by almost poping/locking your hand during a long sample) not completely stop; etc.], faderwork, all go into what makes something sound clean as q-bert or sloppy like bassjunkie. I'm trying to improve so I guess I'm trying to figure out what it is that makes me sound sloppy.
So my questions are:
What do you think makes a scratch sound clean? Sloppy?
What is the worst thing a turntablist can do wrong?
When you guys learn scratches/techniques do you start off really slow and work you're way faster, or do you just pick a record, and keep at it until you finally get it, not even paying attention to it's bpm?
Do you have any pet peaves about scratching (other than a$$holes like me who overanalyze the art :P)?
Any knowledge you guys want to drop would be greatly appreciated.
<3 bassµnkie.
p.s. I know that using the term wrong or sloppy is kind of...elitest, so know that I don't mean wrong, just not generally accepted as right.
p.p.s. Are they're even any generally accepted rules/principles that go into "quality" of scratches?
nik39 11:14 AM - 17 July, 2008
Quote:
What do you think makes a scratch sound clean? Sloppy?

Just curious: Can you give a general statement how a sound is sloppy on a guitar?
DJ.ReFRESH 4:33 PM - 17 July, 2008
"Clean scratches" should have distinct fader cutoffs.

Take for instance the crab scratch. I've seen plenty of people half ass it and "kinda" cut the fader off so it looks and kinda sounds like their crabbing but their not. There are no defined instances of silence between each finger turning the fader on and the thumb bouncing it back to an off position.

It's difficult to explain but you can notice the difference immediately when you have a good scratcher and a beginner right next to each other (yes Captain Obvious).
DJ Sniffles 4:36 PM - 17 July, 2008
Good hand control and timing of your crossfader hand. KInd of a hard question to ask. Most scratches have ur record and fader hands syncopated, except for the flare, with is the only scratch that requires a off pattern. You can tell when someone is just throwing the record back and forth like a maniac, but with fast fader cuts. Doesnt sound good. If you watch a lot of vids you'll see some insane scratches that sound like they are going a million miles per hour, and then realize that the dude is barely even moving the record.


SO...I can't answer this question in its entirety because, well I dont know how to explain myself, but I would say step one is record control. Dont even practice with a crossfader at first. Just practice on record control.
bassµnkie 7:08 AM - 23 July, 2008
Nik:
Ok, say you're playing an electric guitar, clean tone, on the bridge pickup on the amplifier of your choice. If you hold the pick wrong and you're alternate picking, it comes out sounding like a pick scrape (especially when you pick really fast like. it's really noticible after 150 bpm). And then take the same settings on the guitar, and say you're tremelo picking (picking really fast- a song like wipeout or something) and you switch notes DURING a strum. It'd sound like (where A is the musical note A, and - is a ckkk sound) AAAAAA-aAAAAA. It's subtle, but it's there. Those are a few things. A lot of that ^ is subjective though depending on the sound you're going for. If you're playing punk rock (real punk rock) then it doesn't matter...much... at all. but if you were to play like...Dream Theater, or progressive metal or something it makes all the difference in the world.

Dj Refresh, and sniffles. That is exactly the kind of thing that i was asking about.
Refresh- so a "technically correct" crab is sounds similar to when you drum your fingers on a table (meaning the gaps in between the drumming, not the beats themselves :P ).

Sniffles/ anyone else. I don't suppose I can get a video of what you would consider sloppy scratching vs. a clean scratch (even though I could just utube qbert for the clean stuff)
nik39 12:19 PM - 23 July, 2008
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A lot of that ^ is subjective though depending on the sound you're going for.

That's exactly what I mean :)
kalibhakta 5:18 PM - 23 July, 2008
Quote:
Most scratches have ur record and fader hands syncopated, except for the flare, with is the only scratch that requires a off pattern.


Did you mean synchronized--Isn't syncopation utilizing an off pattern?

This is CLEAN scratching:

Watchyoutube.com
kalibhakta 6:59 PM - 23 July, 2008
From my experience as a percussionist you can't just do anything fast from the beginning and have it work right--the control just isn't there. I am getting into scratching now and learning the technique is the same as with any musical instrument.

The speed will come once you have the technique. Music is a language, you gotta start with baby steps man. If something is tricky do it slow over and over. Once your hands start to remember what you want them to do your brain can make them do it faster.

Even basic scratches like baby, cuts, flares, and chirps can sound great if you know how to put them together in different ways, but getting them down first is what you have to do. It takes some work.
bassµnkie 2:52 AM - 24 July, 2008
Quote:
Quote:
Most scratches have ur record and fader hands syncopated, except for the flare, with is the only scratch that requires a off pattern.


Did you mean synchronized--Isn't syncopation utilizing an off pattern?

This is CLEAN scratching:

Watchyoutube.com


lol. I hate you.
Jk.
Nik I know that it's subjective. But even in guitar playing, there IS a correct way to pick, there are genres like punk rock that rebel against such crisp clear sounds but there definately is a generally accepted way of doing it. If I'm going to sound like shit djing, sound like shit playing guitar, paint abstracts, or do anything else in the style of shit, I'm going to have to be able to do it clean first. How else am I supposed to be pretensious and make fun of people that are learning?! Lol.
(jk)
nik39 9:02 AM - 24 July, 2008
:)
DJ LTIZZZLE 10:47 AM - 25 July, 2008
it's all hand control over the platter and how you move the Cross fader back and forth. I just did a Celebrity event and asked Dj Ez Roc a pro tip. BAsically, he said the same thing. Hand control and when you doing the Transforming or crabs it is how your thumb throws the fader back and foward. If you're lazy with it will sound like noise. He also said you have make it sound like you're talking. Just keep practicing
DJ Pryme 11:57 AM - 25 July, 2008
One word: FLAVOR.
sixxx 1:21 PM - 25 July, 2008
A clean scratch = precision.
bassµnkie 3:12 AM - 30 July, 2008
Ok so with crabs for instance, your thumb is like a spring, springing the fader back open. But do you actually have to move you're thumb with each individual cut or do you have to just apply pressure?
Good tip on the talking Ez Roc/ ltizzzle.
Nik that better've made you smile :).
sixx...define precision.
never let it be said that bassµnkie doesn't like semantics. deconstructivism is the way to go :P.
bandoma 6:28 AM - 30 July, 2008
funk
Maskrider 9:27 AM - 30 July, 2008
A Good Mixer
wakka 9:45 AM - 30 July, 2008
If you're having trouble getting clean cuts, try cutting the very tip of your samples and practice until you are able to produce coherent rhythms. After this, you should be pretty good at timing, and you should be able to work your flares towards the middle of sample and produce a similar rhythm. Just remember to be conscious of your fader hand, more so than your record hand. This is just from personal experience, it's worked for me anyway :)

Tyra from Saigon has some of the nicest cuts in my book. This one in particular also shows why a variety in pattern and samples is also key
Watchyoutube.com

You should also check out Turntablist Eko and DJ Revolution


Okay, what not to do:
I know what you mean by sloppy cuts, and it tends to be the person cutting the sound out prematurely or "overdoing" it. Basically, some people will just not know what the hell they're doing and will scratch aimlessly - I'm sure we've all done it before when we first got in front of a setup but you won't improve this way, of course. But unfortunately, I still see grown men who still do this in public

Also, crabs and sharp cuts don't necessarily make your scratching sound better unless you implement it well - meaning, with rhythm, so learn from the bottom up! You can cut like a guillotine but you will still sound sloppy without rhythm.

Kind of like that whack sound you get when you use that "transform" function on your Pioneer EFX or the like: Watchyoutube.com (BUSTED!! lol)
DJ.ReFRESH 4:35 PM - 30 July, 2008
Quote:
Also, crabs and sharp cuts don't necessarily make your scratching sound better unless you implement it well - meaning, with rhythm, so learn from the bottom up! You can cut like a guillotine but you will still sound sloppy without rhythm.


In the context of his original question, we're just isolating the cuts from everything else and trying to elaborate on what makes a 'clean' scratch.
DJ CON-STRUC 1:43 AM - 31 July, 2008
Hey, i was wondering if anybody could help me out. i just bought a pair of shure m44-7's and i am having some issues. Everytime i move the record (to scratch or juggle) the needle shakes quite a bit. It aint skipping or nothing but im afraid that i will break the stylus. i have 1210's and stanton headshell (guitar center did not have any headshells for technics) im pretty sure i am doing everything right set up wise. do i just need to break them in? Is there some tip that i don't know about? PLEASE HELP!!! thanx
wakka 2:35 AM - 31 July, 2008
Break them in

Let them sit on a record for a few nights and you should be set
If all else fails, you could do the 23 degree angle alignment that you can find all over this forum
room213 5:07 AM - 31 July, 2008
bassµnkie I never thought I would see anyone using Dream Theatre in a discussion about turntablism, well done .
Maskrider 6:08 AM - 31 July, 2008
Practice your scratches individually (meaning practice your cuts until they are perfect before going to the next scratch).

In this way you get a better cut when combining your scratches. ( I know this takes alot of time and sometimes boring)
nik39 7:32 AM - 31 July, 2008
Quote:
Everytime i move the record (to scratch or juggle) the needle shakes quite a bit.

That's normal.
DJ Dynamite - NJ 7:36 AM - 31 July, 2008
Quote:
Quote:
Everytime i move the record (to scratch or juggle) the needle shakes quite a bit.

try adjusting your weight, anti-skate and tonearm height to keep the shaking to a minimum
hippo22 2:09 AM - 4 August, 2008
man this is a great discussion to read for brand new rookies like me. the videos are helpful too

so what kind of time frame did it take for you experienced turntablists to nail each scratch type?

honestly it is taking me a long time, i am beginning to wonder if i'm just not very smart. :) frustrating...but fun.
Maskrider 10:27 AM - 4 August, 2008
no matter what you do (esp. scratching or any hobby) think of it as just having fun.

no need to be real serious about it.

Mastering each scratch takes alot of time but when your having fun you really don't think about it.
FU_PAY_ME 2:17 PM - 4 August, 2008
For examples of sloppy scratches, I would suggest looking at old DMC championship vidoes on youtube. Late 80's and some early 90's. And that was not a diss towards those dj's. I'm 100% sure if they had rane, pioneer, vestax, etc mixers back then, they would have sounded 100 times better.
hippo22 2:31 PM - 4 August, 2008
hey FU, how do the better mixers give you a cleaner scratch? i thought it was the technique and skill of the user...or do the newer mixers just have less distortion or whatever? thx
s3kn0tr0n1c 2:40 PM - 4 August, 2008
nice tight clean no popping crossfader that moves smooth and has a cut in of 1mm is easier to cut on that 5-10mm of fade
wakka 5:14 PM - 4 August, 2008
I doubt it's because they had lackluster mixers back then, scratching just didn't evolve as much yet. I mean, the flare wasn't even invented until '91, so you can't really expect nice cuts from the 80s
minus 2:15 PM - 5 August, 2008
what makes a clean scratch: Practice

Whats the worst thing an 'ablist can do: Not practice

Start off with slow tracks.. dont rush into some fucked up 145 bpm madness.. analyze the sample and work on simple combos emphasizing on clean fader and record movements. watch battles. Watch youtube vids. practice practice practice. What makes a good cut dj is that they are original, funky and soulful, constantly coming up with new ideas on how to manipulate the sound.
DJ GaFFle 3:59 PM - 5 August, 2008
Quote:
...I mean, the flare wasn't even invented until '91, so you can't really expect nice cuts from the 80s


DJ *cough* Cash Money, Jazzy *cough* Jeff, Aladdin *cough* *cough*...
DJBlisk 7:23 PM - 5 August, 2008
Quote:
Quote:
...I mean, the flare wasn't even invented until '91, so you can't really expect nice cuts from the 80s


DJ *cough* Cash Money, Jazzy *cough* Jeff, Aladdin *cough* *cough*...


<raising eyebrow>
wakka 11:50 PM - 5 August, 2008
Quote:
Quote:
...I mean, the flare wasn't even invented until '91, so you can't really expect nice cuts from the 80s


DJ *cough* Cash Money, Jazzy *cough* Jeff, Aladdin *cough* *cough*...

What's funny is that you named innovators. Minus Aladdin, they're the ones that made the transform popular

And if I'm not mistaken, Jazzy Jeff was a lot more well-known for his production (namely for Will Smith) rather than scratching, at that time
bandoma 11:54 PM - 5 August, 2008
jazzy jeff had some dope transforming skratches back then. his stuff was very clean.

some djs need to go back and learn some of those basic transforming scratches. people wonder why their kuts sound like shit cause all they do is crab all day.

if you mix things up with transforms, babies, stabs, chirps...just combo it up your kuts will sound cleaner.
DJ GaFFle 1:26 AM - 6 August, 2008
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
...I mean, the flare wasn't even invented until '91, so you can't really expect nice cuts from the 80s


DJ *cough* Cash Money, Jazzy *cough* Jeff, Aladdin *cough* *cough*...

What's funny is that you named innovators. Minus Aladdin, they're the ones that made the transform popular

And if I'm not mistaken, Jazzy Jeff was a lot more well-known for his production (namely for Will Smith) rather than scratching, at that time


Jazzy Jeff was and still IS the epitome of clean as far as scratching. I've heard cassette battles of him back in the day before The Fresh Prince, before the transformer scratch was invented...his scratches were still clean.
bassµnkie 4:39 AM - 6 August, 2008
Quote:
bassµnkie I never thought I would see anyone using Dream Theatre in a discussion about turntablism, well done .

they had a dj on one of their albums doing HORRIBLE scratches. I think it was the cornyest thing I'd ever heard.
Cruel Hand Luke 9:51 AM - 6 August, 2008
Quote:
jazzy jeff had some dope transforming skratches back then. his stuff was very clean.

if you mix things up with transforms, babies, stabs, chirps...just combo it up your kuts will sound cleaner.


Word. Guys like Jazzy Jeff, Joe Cooley, Scratch, Premier, etc. are based off dope transforms, chirps, and stabs. Look to all 4 of them for CLEAN, RAW cuts!

vids.myspace.com
Watchwww.youtube.com
DJ G-Love 10:05 AM - 25 November, 2015
I'd like to bring this topic back from the dead, I just saw a DJ Jazzy Jeff video, he displays very simple scratch techniques.. but you can easily he see he is an incredible turntablist, and if you break it down, it's really just precision, rhythm and timing. www.facebook.com
ozfrombk 4:36 PM - 25 November, 2015
Wow. I actually went back and read the whole thread. I am always looking to improve my cuts. Interesting insights.
skinnyguy 5:55 PM - 25 November, 2015
Stay on beat and on count ( syncopated or regular ).
kjterry33 1:42 PM - 30 March, 2017
This thread has been very helpful....i've been trying to do the chirp scratch and i have been having so much trouble.....i watch videos and it looks easy enough but i guess my problem is my fader hand.
sumoJr 4:36 PM - 31 March, 2017
its probably both
your record hand movements and fader hand need to be syncopated for very clean cuts
Im guessing you are trying to chirp at light speed