You definitely should get or (if you already have) stick with an NS6 dude ;)

The only thing I'm really concerned about is the 1:1 mapping to the effects section.
I don't think it can be done right with the controls we already have so I hope we can at least map it to external MIDI controllers like an Akai LPD8.

VCI-380 is not comparable to NS6. Apples n' Oranges.

NS6 = 4-decks, large chassis

VCI-380 = 2-decks, small chassis

en.wikipedia.org

Huh? Perhaps you're not familiar with what a VCI-380 is. Here's a link show you what it is and why it isn't like the NS6. serato.com

I have played with the NS6 and I own a VCI-380.

I was just trying to point out how "Fox Blood" was saying "like NS6" all the time which I found to be quite funny.
Seems like you didn't understand what I was trying to say when I posted this:

Still don't understand. How is "irony" relevant to anything being discussed here?

Post of the year right here!

lol, thanks.

Seriously though, it's a bit of stretch to say that OP's use of an NS6 for purpose of referencing a handful of known features is the same thing as comparing it to a VCI-380 and therefor ironic. True definition of irony should be explored here. Reminds me of that stupid Alanis Morissette song where she improperly uses the word "ironic" over and over.

We may have VERY different senses of humour as I (I'd put this in capital letters too if I could) found it to be funny to ask someone to buy an NS6 who references the NS6 a lot.
When I did that it was meant to be ironic.

You really should stop to read posts word-by-word, especially if the poster's native language is not English, which is quite obvious in my case.

Yeah, if only ioooi had tried to be ironic at all.

But that's not the definition of irony :-/

Because irony only has a single strict definition, right?
Do you even read what I post?

Seriously, dude. Calm down :)

Always calm, just confused lol

Hey Fox Blood,

Unfortunately at this point I can't give you definite answers. When we are actually working on bringing the VCI-380 across for support in Serato DJ is when we will have a more clear and concrete understanding of how the controller will work with the software from a user perspective.

This goes for all other controllers too, I simply wouldn't want to promise you anything that I don't know for sure yet, but early stages and prototype work has begun on all controllers. Your suggestions will be taken into consideration as we get further into the development work for this controller.

I just wish the wait wasn't so long, given how new the 380 is, and that the Pioneer box incorporates so much of the 380's design.

It's disappointing.

Absolutely. It doesn't exactly fill me with good will towards Serato. The 380 should have been a flagship controller and instead got hamstrung by delayed, buggy, half assed software. It got one update that took an absolute age to come and now gets lumped with controllers that are rather ancient when it comes to Serato DJ. Considering this lack of respect to it's customer experience/early adopters I'll be thinking long and hard about pumping any more of my hard earned money into the Serato ecosystem.

Essentially the VCI-380 was a Vestax hadware triumph and a Serato software failure. This was likely due to a unfortunate choice to divert resources to the ,then secret, Serato DJ project.

Considering this, I think expedited support for the VCI-380 in Serato DJ would be pretty fair compensation for such a poor initial experience.

Serato is obviously courting a lot of new users with this heavily marketed release, but they are ignoring the feelings of the existing Itch customer base.

Yeah, rather bafflingly, presenting a $200 upgrade to a demographic shown to have a lack of interest in spending money on top end features. If the majority were interested they probably would have voted with their dollars when they bought the hardware. If they are strapped for cash and/or using traktor I assume they would rather, ahem,"obtain" an updated version of Traktor rather than spend money on something unproven.

Come spend $200 dollars on this professional DJ software. Except the professionals haven't really even tried it yet.

Now that's true irony. lol

Besides that, they are ignoring the effort that companies like vestax put into developing controllers. Having a new piece of hardware released just to find out that the targeted software will be cancelled must be frustrating for them, too...

Im sure a lot of professionals HAVE tried it, and done a testing/feedback to the development crew. This is how Serato normally conduct their business, at least for the higher end products.

Kind of interesting how average joes whine and bitch about not getting their controller supported "yesterday already" on this forum. Its far better, they take the time to make stable releases IMO.

Curious, do you think Serato does testing and feedback with professionals when developing products with their hardware "partners".

^^^ talking about higher end products here (i.e.: NS6, VCI-380, Twitch, etc for ITCH, not DJ Intro units)

Don't tell me about it.. My 380 it's just a few months old and they don't give a damn about updating it anymore. They got my money. And yours too. The new shiny pioneer toy+serato intro upgrades should keep the $$ flow. It's all good for serato. Not so much for us, loyal customers.. I bought over the years Vci 300>ns7>vci 300 mk2>vci 380 and countless DJs that I've made the INTRO to serato.. The bridge deception and few other broken promises.. And now this! Vestax should work with NI to give the 380 proper HID support for traktor.. Serato behavior is damaging their brand immage..

Apart from when you get a free upgrade to Serato DJ early next year, do you mean?

How is that different from Itch 2.3 coming along early next year instead? Apart from Serato DJ having more features and expandability, of course.

You got it all wrong.. What I meant is that updating itch controllers clearly isn't a priority to serato. Because we don't have to pay for it they're taking their sweet time! Serato doesn't care about loyal customers. That's what I said.

They sure do with ScratchLive at least...

Yeah, I'd definitely agree that that's probably the case, but very little evidence I've seen that would indicate there's been much (if any) real research and consultation with pros when it comes to the ITCH controller side of the biz.

What do you base your judgement on, oiio?

Oh no... :)

Lots of things have been observed that as a pro I'd think would be nonos when developing pro hardware. For example...

V7: Mushy buttons, plastic pots

NS7: Mushy buttons, plastic pots

NS6: Wobbly plastic pots, missing individual channel meters, delayed meter response, wall wart power supply/barrel connector

Twitch: Poor master and headphone output levels

VCI-300: Poor master and headphone output levels

DDJ-S1: Missing booth outputs, rough jogs, plastic control surface, wall wart power supply/barrel connector

DDJ-SX: Wall wart power supply/barrel connector

There may be more things TBD, but these are what come immediately to mind.

Again though, you seem to just live in some world where everyone has thousands to spend on gear, and likes things to feel like you do.

I hate mushy buttons. But all Denon gear has them and they sell lots of gear to pro DJs. Until CDJs took over, nearly every venue in the UK had a double Denon player with those horrid buttons.

Until recently most of your almighty Rane mixers had wall-wart power supplies too.

Things have to be built to satisfy the market, and the form factor the manufacturers want to make (and are able to manufacture at scale).

Plenty of DJs reckon the CDJ-2000s are horrible plasticy shit, but that hasn't stopped them being adopted by the vast majority of top-flight touring DJs, has it?

Well, you always have to cut-off things when you want to reach certain price points.
I saw you mentioning 7-11k controllers when comparing them to a high-end setup with turntables and/or CD-players.
But I don't can even think of a profitable market for 2-3k controllers. And for now it doesn't seem like there will be any manufacturer trying this out.
Let's face it. Even Pioneer - known for their ridiculously pricey gear - sell their flag-ship controller for 1,000 $

IF your your a pro, then you would know that those low end and mid level controllers would need to cut corners to be sold at the price they went for. And if you didn´t know this, then you´re basically NOT a pro... Sorry dude, it needs to be said.

Oh these kind of these kind of arguments never get tired. Let's all just whip em out and measure them while we're at it.

LOL!!

I mean why would anyone expect a highend product for a lowend/mid-end price?

But WarpNote is right..!

Can't speak for others, but if you're asking me, no, I wouldn't expect that. If you had read threads you'd know this already :-)

Does ANYBODY here read before they post? lol

[O/][iii][O/] You're not making sense to me. All the the controllers you mentioned (V7, NS7, NS6, VCI300, Twitch, DDJ-S1, and most proably even the SX ) are in the low/mid range marked and NOT considered pro equipment by most Club DJs...

Not saying they cannot be used in a pro setting, BUT they ALL lack features and/or quality found PRO equipment. That's why these units sells at way lower prices compared to the Pro units. FYI, examples of what I consider Pro equipment would be technics 1200, Rane mixers, Pioneer DJM 800 and upwards, Pioner CDJ 900, CDJ1000, CDJ2000, A&H mixers among others.

Maybe I misread what you wrote and only pointed out the reasons why you don't consider said controllers Pro...?

And I STILL wonder how you pronounce your name?

Are you serious?
What do you consider pro equipment?

All metal casing = too heavy
Full size jog wheels = too large
Non-contact high class faders = Not made for pro turntablists
Build-in high quality effects = Already in the software

There are a lot of reasons why controllers are not too expensive.
And: If you buy decks for a minimum of $1000+ each and a mixer for another $1000+ you can always change the components you dislike. This is impossible with a controller so it must fit every single buyers expectations if it costs lots of thousands of dollars.

The product categories are just not comparable.

So if you compare these attributes the VCI-300/380/400, NS6/NS7/V7, DDJ-SX must be considered as pro gear. Especially if compared to the ones by Reloop, DJ-Tech, Gemini, Numark/Vestax entry level ones, etc.

Ahhh, I think I see where the confusion might be in what I was saying here Warpnote. Yes, you did misunderstand, but I probably could've done a better job explaining when I said...


I was referring to ITCH software and ITCH controllers as "higher-end" than DJ Intro software and DJ Intro controllers. That was the comparison for "higher-end" and I didn't mean to imply than any of these controllers are truly high end units as compared to examples you've listed (Rane, A&H, Technics, etc.) Sorry for he confusion there. Hope this clarifies. Seems we're on the same page with what we view as true high-end is when it come to DJ-releated gear.

Serkan, I am serious. I do not consider any of them PRO, but as I said they can be USED in a PRO setting. The reason for not considering them "real PRO", is as you said:
So really, we actually agree to some extent. When you look at it, probably none of the controllers in the market today was built to withstand the abuse of a permanent club install. That's one of the true marks of PRO equipment IMO, and that reputation can only be earned over a longer time period. So yeah, that stuff normally comes at a premium price.

Again, I never said they cannot be used for pro work, and Im not bashing any of these.
I think they're great for what they do.

On another note, been looking at the SeratoDJ offline player, and got to say Im impressed with the quick library loading and general fluidity of the program. So I am probably looking to pick up a controller myself eventually.

I've only borrowed and rented controllers in the past. As I had issues with large libraries and a few dropouts, I never really trusted itch, and never bought one myself. Prefer doing my own research instead of preordering the "new shiny" just cause it comes bonus software, intro discount, or likewise.

So it this point, I'm not decided if I want a smaller VCI type or the new SX. Gonna try out the small Denon too, as Ive had good experience with their x1600/x1700 mixers. Probably will boil down to the feel of platters, and don't like things too cramped on the surface.

@ [O/][iii][O/]
The quality/features of some of the intro controllers wasn't really mirrored in DJ Intro,
eg the VCI 400 look and feel more mid than low end IMO.

Yep, the VCI-400 was definitely an anomaly, feature-wise AND build-wise for DJ Intro. Could never understand that one as it was clearly geared more for ITCH.

It was about money and licensing.
You could make a $10k controller made of gold, platinum, and carbon. And pay for a DJ Intro license or even go open source.
Additionally the VCI-400 seemed to be more targeted on Traktor.