whatever primo..

i dig in the crates, but not for shit i play at the clubs. you can hardly call buying the latest club shit or recieving promos digging. i don't have 2000 records either.. maybe 1000 at most, no more than 300 of em are songs i can play at a club gig.

wuts up with old school cats talkin non-stop about paying dues anyway? i own and have played many primo tracks at gigs. does that get me a primo medal? or do i gotta lug my speakers and crates out just for the hell for it to be ok with primo if i use serato... lame

self-righteous. i luv it. lol.

i dont think primo is literal when he says u have 2 do this and that. i think u learn djing differently when u have 2 lug crates & equipment, dig etc. there's something about finding that killer record, something about bringing a shit load of equipment to a gig, something looking at your large collection. if you have gone through this, then you look at SSL differently. i see SSL as an elevation of the artform. and paying dues is something that you do in all facets of your life. people appreciate people who have put in the hard work to get to where they are. a DJ DJ's differently when he/she spends all his/her time digging, then playing then learning then start again. i don't think a person who buys a pair of decks, a mixer, PA equipment, a laptop, SSL, then downloads/buys a shitload of music can perform the same. its just different.

muhaha premo shut up and stick to your skills and make beats...

KMXE, word, well said.

concorde_pilot, good arguements you have there.

I agree with primo. Its like mathematics, if you want to solve the 5th degree polynomial function with 3 variables, you gotta learn to count first, then learn to add, multiply, derivate etc. You dont start with high complicated stuff w/o getting the basics. And part of the basics is getting a feeling for music, where does it come from etc. Its a really different feeling whether you can simply copy a whole crate collection from another dj within a few minutes, while if you dug around for vinyls you gave those tracks+artists+music a different value. Whoever stood up early in the morning on a sunday just to be one of the first entering the anniversal big vinyl record flew market knows what I am talking about. Or spent hours searching in dozens of stores for one particular track... it just gives you a whole different approach, and as said before you give those tracks a different value. My 2 cents.

who gives a crap what you use as long as the people are dancing and having a good time. remember your a DISC JOCKEY not some performer who actually plays live instruments. you play songs off a cd or record. i dj but i dont think what i do or how i do makes me some sort of god. chill and use whatever however to make crowd have a good time. with ssl or 8 tracks doesnt matter.

Where's my medal ? I have lagged crates, speakers cables, etc etc. If I had a choice, I would not do it again just for the sake of "paying dues".

Maybe paying dues nowadays is saving for a laptop, hunting down mp3s, ripping,. I guess every way of "paying due" has its pros and cons. I do see more female Djs in this digital age ...that is a good thing.

He sounds bitter to me

Damn.. you guys just don't understand. Primo is the master, and he's totally right with that statement.

s42k, hm, good point. Times have changed. *overthinking POV*

I should sell my ssl live then, im not worthy.

I think he was sarcastic.

haha.. :) no i'm not being sarcastic. I mean, yes times have changed, and you do have to take that into account... but it's true! I mean, that's a reason why we get paid, cause we have to lug around TONS of heavy stuff, now i feel like I'm cheating sometimes cause it's geting so much easier and i only bring like 5 or 10 records to a gig now. i do feel like i earned serato and when any one talks shit and says I'm just some "mp3 dj" i don't care because i know I spent the last 9 years collecting all of the music from all over the world and now I've spent the last year recording it in everyday (still going!!). It was different to dj without serato, you would mix while thinking about similar drum patterns, basslines & instruments that blend and not only BPMs. I see so many Serato djs that are SO WACK cuz they just go down the line of their BPM'ed mp3s, mixing track to track, but not thinking about the actual music and the vibe..

Primo is the master ... whatever he says is true!!! On another note, KRS 1 is also the master.. i opened for him last night (did 2x4 with my partner Steve-1der) and his performence was SO DOPE! One of the dopest shows i've ever seen! Plus his dj was SO SICK, DJ Cocheese.. dope cuts, crazy juggles, body tricks, rocking the show behind KRS, etc... he wasn't using Serato (just if you were wondering) PEACE!!

oh.. Bush, yeah sell your Serato.. haha, :) j/k

If you take what Primo said at face value, it does seem a bit narrow. But if you take what he said as DJ speak, you can see a bigger picture. If you have done your due dilligance in learning your craft, Scratch Live is something that will make all that hard work seem that much sweeter. And, there is NO way you can appreciate all the benefits of SSL if you haven't been a record digger & crate dragger. You simply won't have the perspective.

Once things like SSL are standard across the board (including acceptance by skeptical old school DJ's), the cream will once again rise to the top and the so called microwave dj's will get exposed as such.

Just my 2 cents

yay! i qualify!

The game is changing, you can go and preach against it or jump on it and innovate. I'd be pissed too if I spent part of my life and tons of money searching for records. Than one day something comes along and changes it, almost making it absolete. Same thing happened when companies starting making faders a lot easier to scratch with. Sure kids can all of a sudden do crabbs and fast transforms, but it still sounded like crap. It didn't make them scratch better, it made it easier for them to learn.

Digging doesn't make you a better DJ, DJing makes you a better DJ, Getting to know your music doesn't mean you have to be in some crazy digging spot, it means being interested and listening to what you playing.

Respect is respect, but to stay on top you have to keep on innovating no matter what comes along. If you can't, than you gotta humbly step aside.

Great comments and lots of great points.

There's no need to take Primo's statement to the heart, unless you're a so called "microwave dj".


KMXE and nik39 nailed it with their comments. Great stuff.

I remember someone a while back who posted something like this:
"I see some white/gray stuff coming from the control record" Is this normal? Is the control record being worn excessively?"

It's not word per word, but this cat didn't know that was dirt and grime on the control record being "lifted" by the needle.
If you had "paid your dues" and played regular vinyl, you would have known this. Notice that "paying your dues" in this case doesn't mean you HAVE to do all the things Primo talked about.

Basically, you learn different stuff by doing and trying different things. An old school DJ SHOULD be more knowledgeable in the fine art of being a DJ.

Niro's commment, nicely done.

"Respect is respect, but to stay on top you have to keep on innovating no matter what comes along. If you can't, then you gotta humbly step aside."

There is always some resentment of innovation from old school people. It is hard to swallow years of working hard to only turn around and have an innovation make that hard work no longer necessary.

I have to say that I love Serato for the fact that I don't have the head aches of sorting records, getting paper cuts on my fingers, putting records in the wrong sleeve and then the next time I go to grab for the record while doing a set I can't find it and then I have to think back to the last time I played the record and what I played after that, scratched records, and did I mention carrying the crates??? I don't miss any of that stuff. However, When I go into my studio and look at all my beatiful vinyl I don't regret the 10 years of blood sweat and tears that went along with having the vinyl.
I do miss the album art, and I miss going to the record shop and flirting with the hot girl that works at the counter (Leilah at Armands in Philly), and sometimes I do miss flipping records.

What is kind of sad is that new DJ's won't experience the things that I mentioned...but that's life.

I think that some people are taking Primo's comments the wrong way. Or...maybe he is being an ass hole about it like so many other old school DJ's who have yet to change over.
But...the digital revolution is here to stay and I'm happy about it. I'm happy that I don't have to give up my Turntables (I hate CD players...no offense to any CD Dj's). I love the fact that now DJ's can now stand out because of their skill and programming knowledge and not because they just have a great music hook up.
Now...DJ talent will be able to truly stand out.

Thundercat is right...the true appreciation of Serato is wasted on the new DJ's because they didn't have the "crate digging" experience.
But new DJ's and future DJ's will have their own "crate digging" experiences to contend with and then when the next innovation will have those DJ's bitching about how it use to be.

There was another cat who was complaining that the song was skipping... in the end it turned out that he didnt know how to scratch properly and put too much energy into his hands. Crazy. You never ever haved scratched before and then you buy SSL and expect that you are a dj, even a scratch dj? Thats silly.

Uhm, the funny thing was he blamed SSL for that problem.

In fairness you cant expect new djs to go through 10 years of playing records before they use ssl. If I was starting now id go for ssl straight away too and ye id probably be pretty clueless but ya have to start somewhere.

Tru dat. You can't expect a new dj to go through 10 years of playing records, but you gotta start learning the art first. I don't mean dwell on the past, but perhaps learn from it. Also, who gets tired of learning? I know I don't.

Yeah. He should've blamed those Numark iPod thingies. lol

Now, THAT's REALLY a microwave DJ.

I must admit that I started right out with SSL. I had no experience with turntables what so ever. I had only played around with various DJ software since I was a little kid, and that's definitely not the same thing as the actual wheels of steel. One of my true childhood dreams was to learn how to scratch. SSL just seemed like the ultimate solution to me (e.g. I could scratch my own tracks, wouldn't have to buy any records, etc.), but I still have mad respect for them DJs who like to do it the old fashioned way. The ironic part is that I mostly play old school music...

I have to mention that I used a couple of months doing research before I got the actual equipment.

Wise decision. :)

He's trying to say that DJ's need to pay dues. Someone made a reference to him sticking to making beats, but I am not sure if they know how ill Primo is. He was way ahead of his time and inspired a lot of DJ's. Serato is a slap in the face to DJ's who have spent thousands of dollars building up their record collection, Some of the kids I see with SSL are garbage DJ's. Dj's in a box. He doesn't mean disrespect the talented folks. If your good your good and that will come thru weather you are using vinyl or SSL.

Word.

BTW, a very interesting discussion. On top of that... w/o any flames :-)

DJ are not rockstars

basically, i think primo's whole comment about graduating to serato and getting a medal are wack. as if he's some authority on djing just because he makes beats and scratches hooks. does premiere even dj live gigs? i've seen him "dj" for gangstarr, but he wasn't doing much.

imo, serato levels the playing field. thanks to serato, i no longer waste time and money buying club wax (promoonly.com is the shizzzzz), and i can concetrate on other more important things.

at my old thursday night residency, the main dj who did fridays and saturudays got serviced all the latest promos, and club tracks. most of em i wouldn't even have access to until at least 2-3 weeks later. so while he was being serviced, i had to spend a good portion of my pay trying to keep up, buying doubles of wack shit and comp records whenever i could find em. anyways.. i forgot what i was trying to say.. ha

p.s. all you cats who think you're digging when you hit up the record store to buy the latest 50 track... you're not.

DJ Premier speaks out of his arse on SSL and how you have to earn it

Primo rocks clubs all over the world. He plays everything from club shit to 80's music to classic soul to golden era hip-hop.

And yes, he is an authority.

wow nice topic.

Funny how it's the same problem Musicians have with Rappers and beat makers:)

I agree that you have a different prospective when you've done the hard stuff. It's in all artistic and skilled things.
I tend to go back to the wood plane thing. You can buy a machine to do it now, hell you can go get 3 side already planed wood but there are still some guys who can make a log into a level board with a hand plane.

Someone posted on another thread about things like ableton and not having to beat mix anymore. Now on one side People who know how to do this well, were a bit ticked off but on the other side
he had a point. Now he can concentrate on doing some new amazing trick. Just because you haven't done some of the hard stuff doesn't make you unworthy. If someone is capable of taking it to the next level and they start of one level higher than the rest of us more power to them. For those of us who started off lower we have just that much more wisdom under our belt and we should use it.

I don't think Primo was hating, but just pointing out the same thing one of you just posted. For example



Now you sir appreciate something about SSL that a lot of DJs today have no idea about. Its so much easier to get that promo now even if you have to copy it from the AR person. I watched and AR guy come with one CD and hit up 5 DJs because they all had their laptops or jump disks with them. This is one of the things he was talking about. Those DJ's don't appreciate having to look hard for their music as much as you do. Doesn't make them a bad DJ, they just don't have that experience.

I see people get libraries copied to their hard drive and they have no idea what they just got. There could be some classic $#^% on there and all they know is "I got all of 50 cent". Then again I see people get these same libraries and they start kissing the external hard drive because they have been looking for that song for a year or so.

I think he was just pointing out different level of appreciation.

Here is a clear example of what he was saying about different levels of appreciation.
I don't appreciate the fact that I can sit in the front of the bus today as much as my father did. Matter of fact I prefer the back.

This is so true. I have a lot of shit on my external drive that is classic, rare, or hard to find that I transfered from vinyl. This is one of the reasons why I don't trade libraries.... You want what I got? Do the work. Do some real diggin'.

Damn...I sure do remember all the equipment I used to lug around and the great feeling of watching your vinyl collection grow and the heart sinking feeling when you know the record you use almost every nite is now on its last leg and is now out of print or very hard to find or costs an arm and leg

Thank God for SSL....I now feel the same way but with less back aches ;-)

Now...how much time do I put on this microwave.....lol



ps.....I don't give a damn what anyone thinks about me. I know I rock every show. And the only respect I need is the respect I get from my evergrowing customer base and jammed packed dancefloor's --nuff said!!!!

oh damn...I just burned my popcorn...lol

so what do you guys consider rare or hard to find anyway? a LOT of hard to find vinyl can be easily found on cd. some tracks are literally impossible to find on vinyl either. keep looking or am i being a microwave dj if i download it?

i hardly purchase much vinyl anymore. the only vinyl purchases i make are albums that i absolutely must have or when i dig the dollar bins for samples. these days, must have albums are rare. a lot of the time i'll see an import copy of a lp going for ridiculous prices and its hard to justify buying it when i can buy the cd for half the price. when i do buy vinyl, i'll rip it to my comp so i can listen to it in my car or mp3 player while the vinyl will hardly get any play at all.

point is, i really don't think digging, digging knowledge, or owning classic records matters at all to your average club dj playing for the average club rat. i play for a mid twenties mixed crowd, and they could care less if i dropped t.r.o.y. during my set. how many classics or rare records do you guys drop in a night anyway? i usually hold out till the end of the night when everybody is drunk b4 i drop anything older than early 90's.

i think everybody has a valid point, but i also think a lot people are still misreading what Premiere is going on about.

if i was a new DJ, i agree, i wouldnt want to spend 10years diggin just to learn the artform etc. i think in all fairness, with the digital age of DJing, there will be a new way to "pay your dues". Things which were difficulty and time consuming for record buying DJ's, now becomes quick & easy. i think some things that digital DJ's will have to start learning is "How to get that song that no-one else can get, or finds it very hard to get?". In essence, the 'Digital DJ' will be diggin 'digitally' a lot more and also diggin in areas a 'record-buying' DJ would never have 'dug'. Example, ive always bought records AND cds (records mainly for DJing, also for collection purposes, CDs strictly for listening AND collection). NOWADAYS, i look for records, i look for CDs, and i look through stores, i look online, i look for anything which has music which i might want to use. i use my own beats. SSL has opened the possibilities a whole lot more. This point is not to be discounted. HOWEVER, Primo's point is very simple - a DJ who has spent the hours learning the craft the way HE learnt, will greatly benefit and appreciate SSL a whole lot more. This is NOT to put down DJ's who have jumped on SSL straight away. But its understanding what you've been through and what you've gained from it and all the negatives of crate bringing etc that makes you appreciate SSL that much more.

Also, its no longer the "i couldnt get that record cuz the store sold out, thats why i dont have that on my playlist, and damn, i gotta be up to date with music to play at the clubs" scenario. This is still true, but its a whole lot easier to get songs. If you get an experience DJ, and a novice playing the same songs, some crowds wouldnt give a shit how they mixed the songs - just play the damn songs. But then it still matters because an experience DJ 'knows' what to play and when. a novice may just play the hit songs and be done with it. So my point is, now its not a question of whether you 'have' the songs to rock a set, its 'how' you rock a set that seperates a good SSL DJ to a bad SSL DJ.

i think its safe to say EVERYONE on this forum appreciates SSL. But the people who used to do it the hard way can really SEE & FEEL the values and advantages of SSL.And to the people who say that its not how much you dig and how many records you have that equates to how good of a DJ you are - you're absolutely correct. But this is not what Primo is trying to say.

dj ztrip has shit against digital stuff..... not specifically SSL... but in general..... i have mad respect for that guy..... but the comment he made on the SCRATCH movie was a bit nieve.

have you got a license for that Sir Ray-Doe?

You're not a microwave DJ. I get CDs for ablums I have because it's easier to burn the CD. Then again I have a scratched cinderfella dana dane and I found a digitial copy. Yes I'm so happy!

As for how much classic and rare do i play. I've been doing pubs recently and the people are my age. So I play a lot of old stuff with the new stuff.

This sums up everything below.

a DJ who has spent the hours learning the craft the way HE learnt, will greatly benefit and appreciate SSL a whole lot more

I have vinyl that I transfered to mp3 that had a limited number of pressings. No. You cannot find those on CD anywhere. Also, I've received promo vinyl over the years that didn't make the final cut because of sample clearance issues. No. You cannot find those on CD anywhere. Do I play those at clubs? No. I do, however, love the fact that they're with me everywhere I go. They're labeled correctly on my iTunes library so when I rock real hip hop shows all these songs come in handy.

You probably won't play hip hop classics (maybe a few) if you only do clubs, but if you do hip hop shows like I do then this is definitely your heavy rotation issh.

man.... iv been to 3 of the most famous records stores..... fatbeats.... stacks... and i forgot the other lol....... everywhere i go i cant find the record: promoe - off the record on vinyl......... im dying to get my hands on the instrumental and acappella of that record.

imo, there's no such thing as digital digging. everything is available on the internet. digging for vinyl is totally different, and people who are starting off on serato will simply never appreciate it as much as people who traveled around the country collecting hard to find vinyl. the thrill of finding and playing something no one else had was great...that particular thrill is pretty much gone thanks to the internet.. i've been collecting for 20 years, so i appreciate ssl eliminating me carrying vinyl...i also appreciate being able to download the stuff that i already have on vinyl from wherever...and as far as primo, he IS an authority. he is a DJ first, and to be a DJ and dis him is like being Christian and dissing Jesus. (idiots!) if you don't agree with him, that's cool, too, just don't overcook...

Where I live I’m the only guy I know that has dug crates.. Shit I’m one of the few who don’t just play CD’s. And I get respect from those young CDbucks for it. They know. But there not trying to do it.

I think the thing is, for us who have been in the game over 10 years or what not.. We appreciate the whole experience of crate digging. I can look at my crates and bookshelves and tell you a story behind every record.. Just from the edge of the sleeve, I can tell you where I found it, what’s on it.. Where I played it. I don’t get that feeling from mp3’s.

I remember when people used to talk about dj’s and say.. “That dude is dope.. He’s got the tunes..” or “yo.. where the fuck did you find that record, I’ve been looking for it forever!”

You used to be able to judge how long and how deep a DJ had been in the game by his records.. how far back did his singles go.. how big was his collection.

I think that’s the main thing that has been lost to digital DJ’s. And it’s not about paying dues for me, a lot of the CD kids where I live are dope DJ’s.. they rock the party. But they will never have the same appreciation for the vinyl.. the music.. the whole experience.

Ofay
That you? Wow everyones on serato now, its dope in it.

I think there is, even before ssl for the past 5 years I bought all my records online. I still sifted through most releases every week trying to find the good stuff, I dunno what you play but in dance music theres a lot of stuff released every week. Its a lot of work keeping up to date and finding the good new stuff.

Oh yeah...!


www.vinylkingz.de , very good store, lots of underground stuff plus own label (offbeaters, subversive). THE underground address in Germany, also they have "normal" stuff, a decent classics section. They have that promoe record on stock (its an european rapper+production, dig www.looptroop.nu ). Tell'em I've sent you ;)

Neither do I. Vinyl is a real hands-on medium. The way you browse real records isn't the same as browsing them in software. There's a certain satisfaction in knowing you spent years collecting those tracks, when they came out, who rocked the track first and where you heard it, etc. I see all these digital downloads nowadays of vinyl I spent money on (whether I bought it in a real store or ordered it online). With 3 clicks, someone can have half my collection in 1/100 of the time, have it in better quality (most likely). Can you buy or download every single one? Probably not... you might be able to come close. But what the DJs--who don't spend money on real vinyl--are missing when they just started is the experience, the history, the progression of music. The fresh smell of vinyl!

Someone born today can read or see Hurricane Katrina on DVD, for example, when they're older but they're not going to experience it the same way people who were affected by it were.


I think you can still do that to a certain extent. The way they put their set together, the way it's structured. The look on their face like "I remember playing this track 5 years ago and it still gets a great reaction on the floor." A lot of people can download the tracks and have your same collection but there's still something magical by the way you can put it together.



Best post in this thread yet. Big up OFAY!

trip is evolving though... he always has vinyl, but he uses cd-decks, effects units and in his latest tour he even scratched DVD's, yeah thats right, with visuals, its pretty mean.

What are you guys talking about, Microwave DJ's use Numark iDJ Mixing Console (www.numark.com).

i spin rap and r&b, both 80's on up...i feel u about looking for the latest, that's in every genre, but looking online is nowhere close to looking in person at record stores, conventions, pawn shops, peoples parent's collections, estate sales, places like those...having to do it THAT way separated who was really serious about this craft, and not just a fly-by-nite DJ. no disrespect to anyone, but ANYONE can do a search on the internet and find their music. if people had to do it the hard way, who would still do it? that's the respect factor that Primo refers to; it's not that people aren't good if they come straight into the game with SSL; just not gonna be respected by their fellow DJs as much as someone who had to do it the hard way, and actually did it. there's so many analogies i can make about this, but i'll go military to illustrate..it's like coming out of college with a degree, going into the military and automatically becoming an officer just because you have a degree. All the other officers went through basic training, and had to do much more to eventually earn the officers rank. Which officer do you think the troops REALLY respect? of course, none of that matters to the public, but it does to his FELLOW SOLDIERS, just like it matters only to the FELLOW DJS...

Z-Trip isn't against digital, I remember him saying as long as you use the technology to flip it. And I agree, because before, yeah it was hard finding dubs and certain remixes. But, now technology allows me to play my own remixes. As before that would be impossible, unless you got a dub plate or played it on a CD.

IMO this thread has branched into a lot of related issues and they all can't be compared. Experience, nostalgia, work, pain, sweat.....

IMO if you were to use SSL and other things like it to traditionally DJ, just to save your back and have a crap load of songs avalaible, than I understand Primo's statement. But if you flip it in a totally different way, than it's a totally different thing in itself. There's things I do now, that weren't possible before with just vinyl.

S

did someone here offer to sell their ssl? how much? PM me :)

The following had me rolling...

:)



props to L93 for this jewel....

With calculators, there's a lot of microwave mathematicians's out there with TI's. But a calculator is, to me, something you have to earn. I'm like "have you counted using your fingers and toes? Do you have at least 2,000 marbles? Did you ever have to carry your abacus to a math test?" If you have, then you can graduate to a calculator. Here's your medal. - DJ Premier

With cars, there's a lot of microwave traveler's out there with wheels. But an automobile is, to me, something you have to earn. I'm like "have you walked barefoot? Have you at least walked 2,000 miles? Did you ever have to carry your girl to the movies on your back?" If you have, then you can graduate to a car. Here's your medal. - DJ Premier

With oven's, there's a lot of microwave cook's out there with kenmores. But ovens is, to me, something you have to earn. I'm like "have you rubbed 2 sticks together? Do you have at least 2,000 boy scout merit badges? Did you ever have to cook on a campfire to feed a whole family?" If you have, then you can graduate to an Oven. Here's your medal. - DJ Premier

I agree with so many people on this thread- Primo IS an authority...

I read between the lines with Primo's statement- I think he's talking about musical knowledge. A dj needs to study up for years to collect at least 2000 records... A real dj (a dj's dj) can hear the samples in hip hop and knows where they came from...

In regards to carrying your speakers to gigs- I guess I'm from the new generation that rarely had to do that... Carrying crates, yes, most of us here have all paid our dues and that's another reason we all love SSL- we love vinyl but its just too damn heavy.

Yes it is a good thing but I don't think that it has so much to do with the digital age- we also see more women CEOS... Women are finally starting to be accepted in all male-dominated industries...

I still compare it to mathematics. There is nothing wrong using a calculator or a computer to do all the maths, but to get a proper understanding you should have added and substracted and multiplied numbers on the paper for yourself w/o any technical help. Learn the basics first, before you try the advanced stuff and take that advanced stuff to a new level.

a real dj blah blah... freal. a dj is a dj, thats that. any dj with money can buy 2000 records in a week. how often do you cater your sets to other djs in the club/party? b/c the average person could care less about how deep your musical knowledge is.

who has the neil armstrong - 2original mix cd? the 1st time i heard it i was impressed by all the original samples he had collected, but that doesn't change the fact that my friends (average club rats) thought it was boring.

most of us are professional dj's or aspiring to be one right? in the end its all about the money. yes djing and music in general is my passion, but the music i play at my gigs is 90% absolute crap. although i enjoy the actual process of djing and vibing with the crowd, i wouldn't touch the crap i play with a 10 ft stick if i wasn't a dj. ppl have called me a sellout, but i could care less. if it was up 2 me, my set would be 2 hours of scratching mixed with some bjork, quasimoto and portishead. but who the hell is gonna pay me to do that...

keeping up with the latest crap singles is a chore in itself. i mean shit, there are like 20 billion new hits every week. thx to serato, promo services, and the internet, i have access to the lastest singles, promos, exclusives etc. i can now spend more money on GOOD music and contribute to artists who actually deserve money.

how is serato more advanced than using records? serato has not made my scratching, or mixing skills better in any way.

i've seen enough gimic and no-skilled djs come up. serato has leveled the playing field a little bit, and ill do whatever i can to give myself an advantage.

It has done more than level the playing field, it has mucked up the whole scoring curve. SSL is that one super smart kid that screws it up for the whole rest of the class...But in a good way. =)

Like I was saying, when it is all said and done, the best will still be (back) on top. This is just a minor fluctuation in the space/time continuum. =D

did he say anything when CDJs came out? because in my opinion its the same situation

PAY YOUR F*CKING DUES!!!!!!!!!!!ROOKIES!!!! man i will admit that since serato has come out i have had alot of people hit me up that just started djing asking me to hook them up with gigs. wtf!!!!!!!!! 1st i need to hook myself up 1st. 2nd if im booked ill hook my boys up that have been PAYING THEIR DUES!!! 3rd , why hook someone up with a gig that havent earned their rights to throw down and make some $$$$. the way i see it is alot of people a jumping the steps of the dj ladder. from my eyes this is what i see in a lot of these new "DJs"

1.get some tables or cd tables
2.buy a laptop
3.get serato or final scratch
4.rip music, cds, vinyl(rarely), steal music
5.ask everyone for their harddrives
6.ask for gigs

on another tip. i hate when people hit me up asking for my harddrive especially when i know they dont have any f*ckin vinyl!!!! im like dude what am i gonna do give you all the music that i paid for? EAT A DICK AND PAY UR DUES BITCHES!!!!!! IM RICK JAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



IM NOT HATIN IM JUST PUTTIN OUT MY PERSPECTIVE ON THIS.
but like someone said earlier. it dont matter if you can rock it on vinyl or cds or whatever, as long as you rock it!!!

They may not care, but it's not so much about your musical knowledge but your knowledge in general. I must admit the average person doesn't know shit about dj'ing but everyone notices when a dj can mix or not. I mean a clean (or not so clean mix) compared to a huge trainwreck.




Really? I'm a professional DJ and I can tell you it isn't all about the money. Radio pays shit. Clubs MAY pay alright. Mobile pays good cause you set your own rates. I'm not saying I don't make money or don't like getting paid from gigs, but if you say it's really about money then I don't know what to tell you. The moment dj'ing to me feels like a job, is the exact moment I'm retiring and I've been in the game since 1992.



Clearly a LITTLE exageration. :)




Dope. I agree with this too. If I ever buy records, they're independent shit. I'm so glad I get promo shit cause I wouldn't pay for most of that crap.



I totally agree. Good point. If you suck, you suck with or without serato.

im with sixx on all this!!!!

Quote:

i can now spend more money on GOOD music and contribute to artists who actually deserve money.

now i dont have to spend all my money on all the jiggy club shit with a shelf life of like a month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! finally i can play all these promo mp3s labels been sending me!!!




Quote:

how is serato more advanced than using records? serato has not made my scratching, or mixing skills better in any way.


I totally agree. Good point. If you suck, you suck with or without serato.




i think jazzy jeff said something like that in skratch magazine a few issues back.

its true though haha!

OK if you suck you suck.
But you have to admit there are a few things that are just plain easier with Serato or any of the newer digital tools. Beta mixing, music selection/availability, ease of access to custom edits... Hey if your turntable is on the fritz you can rock one table... ok that one wasn't a great advancement.


rant on--
It's like that movie drumline. How can you expect respect you when you don't respect the craft enough to learn it's history, techniques and theory? I'm not saying you gotta carry crates of records or even dig for music but damn learn your craft, however you do it. Don't just have mommy buy you a crap load of music and gear and go out and undercutt all the other DJ's making a living at this to get gigs and then.. expect to get respect as a DJ.


---rant off

Sorry, it's been on my chest a long time. I had that done to me. Destroyed what took me and a lot of guys and girls 3 years to build. I wouldn't have cared that much if they were good at their craft. They sucked so bad that people went back to hiring bands and wanted nothing to do with a DJ.

Well only you know if you deserve the respect you are asking for.

I feel ya and a about 6 months ago I was of the same mind.
I was going to enocde all my stuff myself.
But I'm staring at about 6000 pieces of vinyl that my wife and an I have been trying to encode for the past 6 months. If one of my boys who has the same stuff comes along and offers me to copy anything I have vinyl of from his digital collection, I'm a take it.

Serato doesnt make you mix better. i mix the same. i can dig thru my crates quicker and am able to grab a song quicker enabling me to drop quicker mixes.
As for music selection, if your music programming skills sucked in the 1st place they will still suck. you can have every song in the world but still end up playing the same shit you were.

but being able to play your own edits and remixes on vinyl is dope.

Sorry should be BPM matching. Between the visual help and the BPM counter thing it is easier to learn on serato. You eventually learn to not need that stuff.

On the music slection just the ability to ge to them faster.

Yeah me too, until I had to teach someone.
To tell the truth I think "I" was the one being lazy.
After about three weeks they could do it on regulkar vinyl with no problem.

i just stopped to read the article this was taken from and preimer sounds like he just needs some more time to "come around" to the new technology.

from the article in jan/feb 06 scratch magazine:

when i was in college for video/audio production (same school as david letterman), they taught us how to record and splice (with a razor blade) reel-to-reel tape. this was in like 2000. i thought it was completely pointless and i would never use it again when digital was so much easier.

guess what, i was right. i now am a college professor and never have spliced again nor would i imagine trying to push such an old school approach on anybody. who cares how many disc jockeys had to 'pay their dues' by splicing tape; anymore they're just button pushers anyway.

premier says himself that he was hesitant to switch over to pro tools, which is now the industry standard (along with logic). in the end, he couldn't resistant the time and effort it saved him.

as a pioneer of the art of djing, primo has the right to say whatever he wants. you queer trance/house djs need to show some respect. raving is so 1999 and is over since the last millenium. so will be your djing fad in a couple months when you end up posting your serato and gemini turntables on craigslist. Big L rest in peace mah nigggggaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

I hate Poseurs...and DJ's that cannot appreciate different styles of spinning. In addition, I hate DJ's that post to message boards with no regard for capitalization, no regard for punctuation and misplaced use of colloquialisms. I figure if you are going to take the time to insult someone, or a group of people, you should do so in such a way that they will take proper offense. If you only speak to the lowest common denominator, it is likely that they will label you a nuisance or a troll (if they acknowledge you at all).

Considering the Paradise Garage opened in 1978, kicking off dance music DJ culture, I think you're the one who needs brush up on your DJing history there chirpflare.

The terms of this board are "be nice to others" they aren't hard to understand, nor are they hard to abide by.

Respect to everyones comments.

this discussion appeals to everyone because either they feel they might have been labled by premier or they can do the labeling. I only got 25 records..started djn 2 yrs ago with out serrato....bought it this summer...am i a "microwave dj"? maybe... but thats not the point...

the real point is your doin what u enjoy! i havnt done a gig for money yet...i do it for the love of music... not money, not fame not dj groupies (btw are they any?) but seriously if you do it for the love then who gives a shit how u do it

yes there is something about art...something about respect for the skillz...im down with all that....otherwise the skill will get diluted and unrecognized..... but if your doin it for the love of djn then you'll be okay with or without serrato.... if you dont got love for it....then your gonna be selected out anyway... youll do it for a year or two and thats it...we wont hear from those cats ever again...the microwave dj will be forgotten

peace

I totally agree with you. I ACTUALLY LOVE SO-CALLED DJ'S who start up because they think it's "cool" or whatever any other useless reason they may have. When they get tired (and they will), they'll put up their brand new stuff for sale and I'll end up saving some big bucks thanks to those morons.

:)

What a bellend

agree. Stop slashing electronic music DJ's, i know enough hip hop or rap djs that are straight up ridiculous but then again there are always such people, it has NOTHING to do with the music you play.

excellent.......

Actually, THERE IS SUCH A THING AS DIGITAL DIGGING.

You go to stores and look for used CD's that are typically super cheap. Then you go home and rip them and you don't even have to name the tracks because you can get the info automatically from the online database. Why is this better than downloading off the internet? Because you have the original CD and you can re-encode at any kbps you wish as many times as you'd like.

You have just been sonned. :)

haha, we don't believe you, you need more people! :)
hardly digging, but slightly better than downloading (maybe). how many of yall REALLY go looking for cds when you can download from the comfort of your tv trays?! hahaha! i'm loving this debate, if u can't tell..i'm off to record some more 12" single remixes and dub versions that aren't available anywhere else, at least not till i upload them somewhere..

I go digging for cds!

Used cd singles are super cheap and so are albums...

I still love the process of going to record stores and shopping for music the old fashioned way...

and defjamblaster, am I misunderstanding you? Why the hell would you want to upload your special vinyl? Isn't that what we are talking about here? You put the time in (and PAY for the music) and then post it online so mr newbie dj who bought ssl yesterday can have it instantly? P2P is sucking the blood out of the music industry... If I'm misunderstanding you and you're talking about uploading for yourself alone, cool, but if you're uploading it to a P2P... wtf?

Yup, and you get the whole experience of still shopping the old fashion way.... I've found soooo many jewels! (CD)

same here! i especially love going back to some of my older CDs which had tracks or versions of tracks that i could never find on vinyl.... brilliant!

I tell you I miss going into a room of album covers and just trying out an album becasue the cover looks trippy or you recognize a name on the credits. This is where I find some amazing stuff. And you know what, I may never play it for anyone but me. I know you can do somewhat the same thing on the net but I'm juts not used to it. Now goign to the store and finding CD like that is gettign damn close.

And how did we go from prim asking people to pay their dues to slashing other types of DJs. blah.

I DJ for two reasons, the love of the music and to see people happy. With that I truely respect anyone who can do that to any type of crowd. And if you can do that to more than one type of crowd then much respect and more power to you.

lol scanning

yup, i really meant uploading to my SSL, but also giving to people that i know are veterans...



YES! YES! call it scanning, that would be hilarious, but a good differentiation..!

How about tuning... like in Dark City. :)

wutever... wack post

you can hardly call djing an "art". really though... it takes skills to move a crowd and all, but mixing records ain't art period. anybody can learn to play the guitar but it aint art when all you're doing is playing other ppl's music. a monkey can learn to beatmatch..

check out fuseone's irregular mix, now that could be considered art.

well anything that is done by human creativity should be considered an art.... beat matching is a skill, mixing is a skill, scratching is a skill.....but put together djn is def an art. no two dj's will scratch the same, mix the same...play the same set...and so on

it doesnt make a diff that you are using other peoples music...when u cook you use other peoples ingrediants to make a dish...producers use other peoples samples to make a beat....
dj's use other peoples music to make a set...there is art in the final product which is a manifestation of somones creativity

Word.

Are you calling yourself a monkey? :)

But on the real, I agree with lordank. DJ'ing could be considered art, but being a DJ doesn't automatically make you an artist.

well that makes me a Gorrrrrrrilllachimpanzeeeeeeeeeeee :)

Djing is not art, get a grip.

I guess for some DJ's spinning isn't an art. Especially the DJ's that do wedding receptions, kiddie parties and family reunuions and all you do is play like a jukebox, fill peoples requests, and basically live off of Nu-Traxx and Now Vols 1 through 200000.

But for the DJ that blends the music so smoothly and seamlessly that the two songs sound like they were made together, or the DJ who has a reputation thats so solid that he can play a fairly wack song and people will like it just because he played it...that's an artist.

For those of us who don't feel like Djing is an Art I feel sorry for you and your mother! (sorry...I saw Menance II Society the other night :-)). On the real though...I do feel bad for you. Being a great DJ requires you to encompass so many talents and skills. An Artist can either create something from scratch, or take something and make it greater then what it was.
Isn't that what we do day in and out? How many songs that became radio and video hits because DJ's played during there sets in the club, mixtapes, or mixshows? I think that qualifies as taking something and making it bigger then what it was.
Perfect example: Lean Back and Goodies. Reps pushed those records for months and it wasn't until Dj's started working them into their sets before those tracks got big. Thats the work of an artist. If I'm wrong then then someone please check me.
But again...if you're just a human jukebox then I can't fault you for feeling the way that you do.

i feel that the term 'artist' can be applied to just about any skill or trade....fer example, chefs-actors/actresses-comedians-sculptors-painters-athletes-programme
rs(ssl)-singers/musicians---tabledancers----and last but not least-deejays :) if you rock and kill it time after time, no matter what you do, you're an artist in my book ;)

Mmmh... Silk gots it right (in my book) on this one. So does DJ_Mike_Coquilla.

:)

If you just push play and stop when you DJ, obvioulsy there's no art in that.

To quote a "Man on fire"
A man can be an Artist at anything. Cooking whatever. Crease's art is death and he's about to paint his masterpiece.

I love that movie.

I havnt read everythin, but Premier cant be mad at the fact of the era he is from versus younger folks who never hav had to delt with vinyl (Im 27)

I understand his context, but I think its ridiculous for him to make sucha statement

Its like tellin someone who has a big dvd collection that they arent a true collector cuz they dont have equally as many VHS tapes.

2 different eras

Wrong analogy but I understand what you mean. However, he's not saying that you have to go and get 2000 records. I think (and this is my opinion of course as I can read his mind) he feels that people are skippin' steps.

and I meant I CANNOT READ his mind. lol --- I really should preview before posting.

Maybe its easier if you dont write what you are thinking :-DDD

I'm actually typing. Writing doesn't require the computer.

:) In ya face! hahaha

ouch.... u just got burned with battery acid.......... jp :]

better yet....more like a classic live acustic (sp?) jazz drummer complaining over a beat machine finger tappin groove maker on quantize overload.

Anybody who disagrees with the point Primo is making is:

a. a sensitive twat with no skills who feels like he has earned the right to dj just because he bought serato for $599 and downloaded some mp3s.

b. a bedroom dj/producer who feels insecure about their own contribution to whatever kinda music they make, so they automatically call primo "oldschool" or "bitter", when the fact is that he has achieved more than 99.9% of us will.

c. most of you cats out here buying serato havent even rocked a damn party or club in your lives. If so you would have at least a thousand records at your house. Hell, i bet most of you clowns dont even have 2000 MP3s.

Also, this is hip-hop the man is talking about. Maybe you dance or electronic djs can just pop up at a club or a rave straight from your bedroom and get love without paying dues but not in hip-hop. If you were into hip-hop for real (no just a product of the rawkus era) then you would know that paying dues is wht you do to get respect. Either that or you can battle and get it faster.

Sure we can all agree that technology alone wont make a bad DJ good, but it can make a good dj better. And it also makes cats start skippin steps and thinking they have earned the right make us listen to them suck in public.

Buying a program like Serato should be a part of your natural progression as a DJ. And as far as I'm concerned if you're not spinning out at least once a month then you arent a real dj anyways...and that's probably a lot of yall talkin shit about primo.

Pay your damn dues...

^^ U needa drink, and Ill buy u it

dj's need to pay their dues - still... if you can't understand what he's talking about, then you shouldn't even bother... if you run up against a real cat - you will get no respect - period...

as for primo's dj skills - wise up fellas...

hip-hop was, and still is, an art form... to be an artist, you have to respect the art and know it's history... tools like serato are dope, but they also run the risk of being abused by people who really don't know what they're doing... all cats like primo and jazzy jeff are trying to do is educate the younger dj's...

if everybody all of sudden forgot about the importance of vinyl - the importance of learning about the music, the importance of supporting a local community through buying records, and talking with the old dude at the record shop who can tell you all about johnny guitar watson - then the art itself is in danger...

as for comments like this:




I think you are posting in the wrong thread...

Well said Tommee

Thats the wrong term. What you are describing is not a DISC JOCKEY, its called a JUKEBOX aka robot.

There's the business and function side of things...
and then there is the culture side of things....

Despite the way Primo made his point the facts are the facts and some innovations can erode the culture's foundation. Vinyl is the form the culture started and although I do thank God for serato (and it is that serious for me) because with out it I know that eventually I would have to either spend 10k on a vinyl press, just play old school parties with my vinyl or retire (because I refuse to use CD players), serato has allowed me to walk into the future with my turntables, I also realize that serato has probably pumped the last bullet into the vinyl market...as well as into the CD market (MP3 players fired the first one).
No more album art, no more Saturday morning trips to the record shop to get the hotness, no more packages from Label reps or record pools containing mystery goodies, NO MORE CRATE DIGGING, no more finding a hot track on the b-side of a 12 inch, no more playing a record for the first time and hearing and fresh and warm it sounds, or seeing the first set of finger prints that you put on it.
That will eventually go away and although there will be new great feelings with the technology it pretty much puts an end to the this particular facit of the culture.
It's not a good or a bad thing in my opinion...it just something that we have to come to terms with.
Obviously Primo is having a difficult time with it and honestly he isn't the only one.

One thing that I love about this discussion is that by reading the responses you can tell who is passionate about what they do and how they do it, and who isn't.

Thanks sixxx for starting this discussion. It reminded me of whats important!!!! You get a GOLD STAR BABEE!!!

I dont think anyone is takin away from Premier, who he is, wat he has accomplished, and wat he will accomplish, I personally just feel that he isnt takin into consideration the times we are in.

and personally, like i said, im 27, hav spun at the house of blues, knittin factory, and dozens of other clubs in LA

i agree with both tomme and silk

Are you implying that I do that? I dont, I can mix, ive been doing it for over 10 years, im just not that deluded to think im an artist cos I can mix records.

So you mix but do you try to create anything with your mixes?
Do you try to send a message with your song choices?
Are you trying to create a feeling at your venue?
Do you pass on an interpretation of yourself with your song choices and how you actually mix them together?
Do you remix your songs on the tables while your perform?
If you do, your an artist and there's nothing you can do about it.
If you don't that's cool too. Their are tons of musicians who don't consider themselves artists. But please don't go dissing the one who are trying to take it to that level.

Ye, peace love and happiness

Artist!

I love what this discussion has turned out to be. Everyone has their opinions and points of view and that's all good. I love the whole artist vs not-artist arguments and I gotta agree with this: If you only mix records, you most likely are NOT an artist. If you do it with passion, a purpose, etc. then definitely you are... whether you like it or not.

I think before anyone can respect everyone else... they gotta have self-respect. If you want to play for free, do it. If you want to get paid, do it. If you want to be famous, or not... do it. BUT WHATEVER YOU DO... HAVE SOME SELF-RESPECT.

Are you implying that I do that? I dont, I can mix, ive been doing it for over 10 years, im just not that deluded to think im an artist cos I can mix records.

Not at all Bush. I wasn't pointing fingers or at least that wasn't my intention and if you took it that way then I do apologize to you.
My point was that if you aren't putting a little of yourself into what you do when you play music then you (and I mean "you" in a general sense and not "you" Bush) probably wouldn't consider yourself an artist.
Like Hologram stated...if you're sending a message with your mixes then by default you are an artist. If you've created a technique as to how you play your music and applied that technique then you're an artist.
Playing music SHOULD be much deeper then just playing tracks.

Although I do see myself as an artist I don't go around anouncing to the world that I'm artist. I know that most people don't understand that being artist goes well beyond painting, drawing, or taking a picture. I get great satisfaction when people who hear me play describe me as an artist.

Interesting comment.

"Maybe you hip hop djs can just pop up at a club, play all the popular/ top 40 tunes and get love without paying dues but not in the electronic/rave culture."

Maybe that's what an ignorant electronic/dance DJ would say about hip hop dj's.

So what makes an electronic/dance DJ so different that it makes it easier for him to earn respect from his peers?

I never understood the beef between DJ's in those genres either. They both have different challenges.

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG????

:-)

we'd need to start a new thread to go into the static between the 2 different genres of DJs...i'll be there when someone does!

word! fuck the haters who got no respect for hip hop pioneers.

Def...I thnk you just volunteered. :-)

random but.... i think when a dj is starting out.... he/she needs ATLEAST 1 YEAR of bedroom djing.... and im not talkin about 3 hours a week.... im walkin atleast 10 hours a week every week for atleast a year...... then we wont have the problem of djs buying there shit, practicing for 2 months and getting gigs........... this seriously degrades the standard of djs.......... everyone around me (non djs) think its all about looking cool and pressing the play button on a damn cd player.... that disgusts me.......................... if only people truly knew what detail and hard work we have to put into out mixes.

I don't know about the whole "AT LEAST 1 YEAR of bedroom dj'ing". It's kinda simple, really. If you are taught how to DJ right by someone who knows and has done venues and so forth, I don't see why you couldn't be up and running in clubs and other venues in 6 months.... IT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF WORK but I've seen it happen.

I think PASSION dictates how fast one learns. <---- You can quote me on that. ;)

Ha Ha I was taking the piss

Too right, I love both genres but I really only play dance music. To be honest its usually the hip hop djs that seem to look down there nose at dance djs.

speaking of 'hard work', has anyone goofed around with the 'sync' button on NI's feature on their Tracktor Demo? it takes the thinking (and fun) out of beatmatching.

Some people just don't know. A man (or woman) can be an artist at anything. Some people might say you only play records. I tell them I play all the right ones at the right time(an art in itself). They'll say Graffiti, Scratching, Beatjuggling, MC'ing is not art. I dissagree. There are definitely some non-talented folks DJ'ing, but many of the dudes I know that spin are creative, innovative, in short artist. In many respects Primo is an artist and a damn good one, but in no way should you get heated about what he says. If your good, your good.

nice!

ok, here's a new thread to discuss the techno/hip hop DJ "static"

scratchlive.net

I believe Primo's whole point is that just because technology has made somethings more accessible doesn't mean you are going to be able to be the next Qbert or whoever in a week. Digging is essential to true Hip-Hop which is not rap but incorporates all music genre's. It's not just about skill in mixing but putting stuff together nobody has heard of with stuff people are familiar with and making it sound good. You have trance DJs, electro, DnB, blah, blah, blah but a Hip-Hop DJ in the purest sense has no genre limitations. That takes, skill, creativity, passion...it's an art form. If it isn't then neither is a painting because then a painting of a landscape, a portrait, etc. is just a copy of something that has already been created in which case there would then be only One artist.

Anyway, to sum up Primo's maybe overstated (on purpose) comment: know the history behind your craft or you will abuse because you have no appreciation for what it took to make it so easy for you so you will eventually lose it. And practice, practice, practice because no amount of technology will ever make up for lack of skill and creativity. I just finished watching the dance company where my daughter takes classes perform the Nutcraker and the girls who were technically proficient alone were a lot less exciting to watch than the ones who maybe weren't as technical but had a passion for what they were doing to go with the skill they had. On the other extreme sloppy was only cute in the littlest kids.

Dope comment Zion-Prayz. Props.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and views. Primier made a statement and everyone has an idea of what the man was trying to say, only he knows.
I believe it is a case of being at the right place at the right time. SSL is a dream to many. To carry a laptop instead of 10 crates is good for me. Paying dues means only means" you earn respect from your peers" If some of you DJ to pay your bills, you probably do not give a damn about payng dues.
SSL like many of you said, will not make you a better skilled DJ, but it sure gives you the abilty to expand your music collection.Damn I buy most of my muscic on-line because most of the time record stores do not carry the song I am looking for. Digging in the crates, nowadays is suited for the high paid DJs who have the means and resources to do it. I make enough to support my wife and six year old kid. My family is my #1 priority and Dj to me is my hobby and passion. .

its the same as the beatkeeper/matcher on the numark cdn 88 and 90 series...... 1 out of 6 mixes is beatmached correctly.....

Here's my $0.02....

The DJ scene, at least on the west coast, has been destroyed by the inception of the "bedroom DJ". "Bedroom DJs" are these duche bags that decide one day..."Hey...I wanna be a DJ". Then they get Mom and Dad to go out and get them some decks and a mixer....hook it up to their home stereo....spin in their bedroom for 4 weeks and then go out and bu115h!t thier way into a gig at half the price us "professional" resident DJs used to get. In my opinion, while the "circuit DJ" phenomenon has increase the popularity of DJing and exposed "us" to some decent talent once in a while, it has lowered the overall quality of the general "club experience". Resident DJs and there every week...they learn the crowd...and this gives them the ammo to program a night well.

Look....I have no problem with some guy starting out on SSL. It's not the equipment that makes a good DJ....it's programming. If you don't know what to play, how to play it and when to play it....then you're screwed....regarless what you use.

And I saw someone say earlier "DJs are not rockstars". If you beleive that then you are in the wrong business. DJs are being hailed as "the new rockstars" of music by leading trades such as Revolver, Q and Rolling Stone. Those are mags that don't even pay attention to DJs. Have you ever seen Tiesto live?....Paul Van Dyk....Oaky....BT. They have every element of the biggest rock shows thrown (lights...sound).....including the HUGE attendance numbers. I saw Tiesto at Gatecrasher SSS2004 and he rocked the hell out of 80,000 people. What about Ferry Corsten at Dance Valley!...+100,000. That's rockstar 5h!t in my book.

Flame on...:)

E-Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam!

Dance Valley is the craziest thing I've ever seen!

Well said E-Bam. The dj's that are passionate about their craft will last longer.

these fools are wack cuz they cant skratch

hey chirp, i can't scratch either. i guess that makes me a bad dj :-(

i didnt have to say it

chirpflare can you scratch, or are you a wack dj as well?

Whatever!!

I hate when people take elitist stances and try their best to exclude others, for fear that they are no longer special...

Whatever freakin rocks the crowd....

I have lifted 8 cerwin vega juniors and not to mention highs, amps and mega crates of records back in the day when I first started out -- night after freakin night -- and I wished that I started with a program like serato and was a res DJ -- just show up with laptop and serato...

I don't believe that you need to lift crates and boxes to be allowed the right to purchase serato.. Such rubbish...

And if you want to put that ideology in real perspective, write your congressman and see what he thinks.... (Or tell a club owner he shouldn't let a DJ play unless he can prove "he has earned it"...

Whatever rocks the crowd.. (Why can't people get that??)

Paying dues is nothing more than people who work hard to get where they are being freakin royally pissed off that another comes and get it easily... and it is lame envy.. lol.

And it is nothing more than people being pissed off that they had to work so hard, and others has come and gotten it so easy..

why is it with old cats its all about me me me.. when the issue should be whether you can rock the crowd or not.. Who cares what you went through to get there, the crowd that pays you sure doesn’t.. the issue is whether you can make me freak on the dance floor or not...

I started in 85 and I know of nuff young cats that will take food out of older cats mouths because of the final concept --ROCK THE CROWD..

I wish old cats would stop creating barriers for those that want to get in the game and stop with the me me, what I went through, me me, it's not fair.. And just worry if you can rock the crowd as good as someone who 'pushes buttons’.

Spider, they don't pay to lugg crates, they pay you to rock thier clients.. they could give a f&%^ck how u do it... mud slides, bolloon fights, whetever turns your fancy, just bring em back...

It's like getting mad at people who never had a cell phone before, Like saying "Yo you dont understand you got a Razor phone my first Nokia was mad heavy B. yo your a new jack microwave cell phone haver" The whole pay dues thing is out the window as far as records and stuff now u just gotta pay dues by learning how to dj.... And that unlike records can not be bought with anything other than time. I like it this way, I'm confident in my skills, is he?

Also, what i think he could mean is that DJs make songs what they are, or as we did back in the day, is found real obscure songs and put them to use. @ least that's what I mean by digging.

Sometimes a song could blow up internationally just because some DJ in the most hidden corner kept using the song @ his gigs and it freaked the crowd. Before this DJ, no-one used the song. This s just one art of the DJ, but not the only.

Now the DJ as hunter is purported to be dead. And to me that is just plain booshite. The hunt is still on. There are so many indie artists out there that have fat shite. But it is just to find them. Thus, the invent of the net (just a fig of speech: I am not saying the net is or this reason alone). We can still be inventive and play mad sick original tracks out of context, that we make suit the context (genre). However, the mistake is that that is not the only function of the DJ. I need not go into this too much, but I can mention the utilization of popular old school and new school.

But like I said above.. the owners of clubs, (or if it's your own promotion with your own cliental) don't pay to lug crates, they pay you to rock their clients.. they could give a f&%^ck how u do it... mud slides, balloon fights, free foot massages @ the door, whatever turns your fancy, just bring em back...

I am talking about hard-drive copying..

hahahah

"Paying dues is nothing more than people who work hard to get where they are being freakin royally pissed off that another comes and get it easily... and it is lame envy.. lol." from SIM

u do have a point, but, i've seen dj's off the bat, buy serato with out having years behind the decks to know their history of music, and they make themselves look F....CKNN STUPID by doing sh...t that their not prepaird to do...

whats the point of hating on dudes with cash. Ya the technology is there and they can buy it. But put one of those dudes next to any one of us at a club, and I promise you, the noob will look like shit. Pay your dues etc. but a lot of dj's haven't paid shit and are playing at high end clubs, trainwrecking and playing wack ish. Do i care? Somewhat. But cream always rises to the top.

Well said Blisk. Sometimes it will come down to club managers' willingness to pay for quality and what kind of competition they have in their city. The club is afterall a business and if they can cut corners (and pay less) they will.

For instance, there's this club in Bakersfield, CA where one of their DJ's plays CD's and does not even mix. I mean, this guy literally just lets the song end and pushes play on the next song. There are NO MIXED SONGS at all. The funny thing is, this club gets a huge crowd. Why? Because there's no real competition in that side of town and also because lots of horny people don't give a crap about the music. They just want to go to a club that gets packed where then can get their booty.

Would a club or DJ like this make it in other markets where the competition is huge? Probably not.

and to add to the above...

DJ's with skills who let themselves be jerked around for less money than they're worth should really think about how they're damaging the business... their own business!

I can understand DJ's with no skills who don't care how much they get paid because to them this isn't a business. They just want to hang out at the club and be cool. BUT DJ'S WITH SKILLS? Come on. Step up and get some balls. Don't be afraid to say no if you don't think you're getting what you're worth. Don't be afraid of the competition getting your gigs.

It will always be more difficult to raise your rates than to lower them.

The sad truth is--so does the scum! (If you've ever had a fish tank you know what I'm talking about.)


maybe, maybe not. like you said sixx, for ignorant club owners in a small market, you may have to prove yourself before you can really justifty a rate increase. think of any other job--they don't pay you premium wage right way.

in some markets, you may never get what you're "worth." but at least by working you can at set a prescadent of quality or others to follow and make people realize they should be expecting more. is working at a shitty wage better than not working at all? that's a sad reality for a lot of markets... unless you want to move to a bigger market and get what you're worth.

I thought MAYBE was just that. (maybe or maybe not is redundant). lol


Anyway, I think you do have a point when you speak of jobs that don't pay you premium wage right away, but fortunately (or unfortunately) DJ'ing is NOT like any other job. You can get top dollar for one gig, and a fair minimum on your next gig the following day or vice versa. I still believe it will always be more difficult to raise your rates than to lower them and I can prove it.

Say you're getting paid $400 at your regular residency at a certain club. Next time, tell them you want to get paid $500. They'll want to know why, and what justifies the change. Now tell them you want to get paid $300 instead. They'll just say... OK - no questions asked.

:)

Adding to that post about the bakersfield DJs,.. I know a number of clubs that draw HUGE crowds (packed weekly), and they have pushbutton DJs in there. Absolutely no mixing, absolutely no beatmatching or anything. Play one song, when it's over, play the next one. Dance floor is PACKED. This I just can't understand. I saw one guy DJing with the iTunes program. There is not even a pitch adjustment on iTunes. Am I the only one who has seen something this ridiculous in a club?

True--DJing is unlike other jobs but I'd wager if you would compare its differences and similarities, you'll find more commonalities than differences.

One important difference is it's also very subjective--as this thread reveals. One man's decent DJ is another man's iTunes wankster. Instead of relying on skills, you need to have some business savvy. That's true with anything artistic--your art won't sell itself. A lot of great artists (photographers, DJs, music producters, etc) just don't know how to market and promote their product.

Well of course! You need to justify it by any number of factors. Get a couple people on your side and vouch for you--get them to go up to the owner and tell him how great the club sounds and how much better the environment is. "Is the DJ new? I just talked to him and he seem to be doing a much better job than the last DJ... etc

Get enough friends to come in on different nights and the club owner will start to notice something. Make friends with the bartenders to give you the big ujp. If it's true, you can tell the club owner that you've been packing the club consistently more, plugging his drink specials a lot more than the previous DJ--which you can tell him is contributing to his drink sales, etc. A lot more people were on the dancefloor and staying in his bar--they weren't rushing out, etc. If he needs a reference, talk to any of the bartenders and they'll tell you they were much businesser than usual and lots more repeat customers.

These are just some examples. Saying you scratch better doesn't mean anything to some club owners--they want results. Money is quantifiable--skill isn't--so you need quantifiable proof. Numbers don't lie.

Obviously you can't do this overnight--it's going to take a little while.

See how easy it is to go down instead of up? lol

Its Bakersfield guys, wat do ppl kno bout music out there? They chose to live in Bakersfield :X

I keeeeeeed I keeeeeeedddd

Back to the original topic. Premier is the man!

bump

"ppppppppppppp..premire ppp premire premire premire" .....str8 helped pave the way for all of us...the man gets my full respect.. if u just dont get it.. thats fine.. dont hate on this pioneer. wise up, understand, & hes got a good point..and i fully agree. im still payin my dues. any one else payin due right now?

so for clarafication, is premier known for his mixing/fader/ttable skills or is he known more for his beat production skills.... are there links to any vids (for us noobs) that illustrate why this thread is so intriguing?

www.vh1.com <- Gang Starr
www.vh1.com <- DJ Premier
Google is your friend.


You wont get that from watching videos. Gang Starr and Primo they mean something to the hiphop community.

That's correct.

People forget that cats like Premier have proven themselves and have the credentials to back shit up. I still think people are reading way too deep into what he said. Paying dues can be done in so many ways, not just the ways he described.

he's pioneered a few cut styles as well, not up on the names, but some sort of a chirp i guess. he's not a turntablist, just a well rounded DJ who can mix and scratch. the song "take it personal" introduced his quick scratch to the world.

I really think he sounds like an ignorant jerk off. Dude is pissed cause he has not kept up with the trends in production, and feels like he is getting left behind, I mean did anyone see this magazine article, a Primo Nas colabo album? could anyone think of an album more likely to fail commercially...

A good producer will produce with rocks, pots and pans and make it sound good. If you think he's getting left behind, then you don't know about his music or producing in general.

As far as Premo and Nas collabo... wow. Do you know nothing about Nas and Premo's classic songs?

Just because our tastes differ dosent mean I dont know about production, You are obviously a die hard hip hop head and I'm not. We can exist on here and have different opinions. If you dont think he's bitter you havent heard the stuff he says, all he does is spout keep it real rhetoric.
There is no right way to make hip hop there is no real or unreal hip hop there just is music that people make, to keep rap, hip hop music inside a box like that is determental to its progress...

As far primo and nas yea they have both made great records as indivduals and together I know how many hundreds of great songs primo has made and I like some of nas's stuff too, but If nas wants to be copettitive in todays market I think a collabo LP with primer is not a really great Idea. Its just my opinion but also I think primo does not really have the right to make a statement like that, its just ignorant shit, "Microwave DJ's" he sounds like a retard, granted he's never had a way with words but I mean come on....

"You have to earn serato" thats fucking retarded and its no wonder he has not stayed competitive in todays production market... He is a great artist and has produced countless classics but he's had his run.... Look at Marley he is one of my favs of all time but I know better that to expect his latest beats to be dope. Hes like an old man bitching at young people cause they have cars, like we should have to walk everywhere for 20 years then we will have earned the right to drive....Fuck That

I think "Microwave DJ" is a great term. How would you feel if went to really good restuarant and you hear the beeping of the microwave. Does it really only matter if the food is good? Yes and no. You got chefs with libraries of cookbooks collected over a lifetime and this cat reads the box, cuts the plastic and throws it in the microwave.
On the part of the quote about having atleast 2000 records, I agree too. I have never been one for hunting animals, but I think I get the same primal feeling hunting records. I sometimes get up at the buttcrack of dawn to hunt records. Nothing beats flipping though the bins and that record you thought you would never find is right in front of you. I feel as happy as the guy with a deer tied to his fender. I have some records on my walls. I have good relationships with all the local record shops. They make suggestions. They hold stuff for me, because they know my taste. I bump into other dj's. I talk shop. I network. I post fliers. Etc. There is a community thing. I live in a city with several record stores and a great scene. If I lived in another city, I would have jumped on Serato long ago.

I bought Serato today. It was hard for me to do, not because of money. It was a real hard thing. Usually when you spend money like that, you are stoked on it. I give into getting it kicking and screaming.

I love the simplicity of what DJ'ing is. It is vibrations of the needle in a groove. It is a techology that has been around for a long time. It is almost organic. Simple. After seeing Diplo's laptop isht the bed at SXSW turned me off. I guess the biggest lesson is bring the power cord, lol.

If you would have told me 20 years ago, I would be spinning music files on a computer using records, I would have thought you had been watching too much of Jetsons.

I have been toying with it most of the day. I am feeling better about it. Still not super stoked on it. I am amazed by it though. I don't like that I looking at the waves as much as I am listening.

If there's no right way to make hip hop, why would he be pissed off about not having kept up with the trends in production?

I'm not a die hard hip hop head. I'm a hip hop head period. I also listen and play other stuff (see profile) and yes we can exist on here and have different opinions. All I'm saying is that seems to me you're already contradicting yourself (see above quotes) and I still think you and many others are taking what he's saying way too literal.

As far as Premo and Nas making an album together: no one knows how that's gonna sound, if it's gonna be a success or not. We'll just have to wait and see if it happens.

and last... "Hes like an old man bitching at young people cause they have cars, like we should have to walk everywhere for 20 years then we will have earned the right to drive....Fuck That"

That analogy doesn't sound like what he's talking about. Think of it this way. Would you trust a formula 1 car to a teenager who just learned how to drive? I don't think so. He needs to learn a lot about driving at high speeds, etc. to really know what to do with such car.

I think you're just oversimplyfing, but that's just my opinion.

Great point.


Why do you think I didn't move to CD players that came close to vinyl (scratching) such as the CDX's? Simply because they didn't feel like vinyl at all even if they had an actual record on top. Serato feels and acts just like vinyl, because it is. If the Serato technology wasn't possible using a turntable, I would still be hauling records.

He's be pissed cause he took out a mortgage to buy d and d and is not making as much money as he thought he would be.......

and if serato is like a F - 1 car why is it only 500 bucks?

the reality is its not a formula 1 car its like a benz, it can be driven like a toyota but if you are a really good driver you can push it really far....

And there are plenty of rich kids who get a bez from mommy and daddy but having a benz dont make you a good driver, and to get that respect you are gonna have to pay dues.... Even Rich ass mommy and daddy mark ronson has worked really hard and had to earn his respect, so to me the game has not changed that much just the tools with wich we play..

If your an aging quarterback whos had his day its better to go out humble and pass the torch than piss and moan about how easy the new QB has it...

the whole "microwave dj" is an imaginery enemy.
haha exactly who are u hatin on, beginners? permanent djs? clubs need music & even a bad dj is better than a winamp. just like there were some 'decepticon' dj's out there tryin to make it bad for people. what i can think of there's 1.incapable 2.ignorant and 3.payin the rent, pushin these buttons dj's. but wouldn't all of these be easily beatable...

but what i find funny is that i thought development and innovation were the whole cornerstones of hip hop, scratching vinyl wasn't something that was said on the bible...or neither was sampling old 7"'s on a SP1200, primo...the same way some could ask have you played over 2,000 etyds or write and read music perfectly, only after that you can graduate to sampling.
truth is like we all know as fine as it sounds and feels vinyl hardly is the #1 recording media nowadays...mp3 isn't just the ongoing trend it's the standard on many levels...downloadable/movable digital media anyway...whether it's played from a cd or a HDD it's still the same shh, lookin for music from the days of google i don't think vinyl is the 'crate' to dig. besides it's underestimated how much music there really is logged on the net, the amount is MAD. which one are we achieving for - owning a lot of records or knowing a lot of records and music? i prefer the latter. hell i wouldn't take a that comfortable position on that armchair before bambaataa gets nobel ;) when did hip hop become an acceptable standard? i don't think it still is

and i thought this was about mixing music and making noise as funky as possible

gizzle knows what these microwave dj's got cookin up...but one thing i know in 2020 i don't wanna hear anybody scratching "ahh! fresh!" on "shook ones" instrumental.
PEACE
LSD THE MICROWAVE DJ

why not?

One of the many things that held me back for so long from getting Serato is losing the ability to see the record.

If you have the ATCQ "Can I Kick It" twelve inch, go grab it. After the Q Tip verse you can see where almost everything drops out. I rarely ever get passed there. It is like the perfect point to blend in another record.

To give the Serato some credit, I do like the fact you can see the whole track. It is not the same but it is a decent trade off.

Maybe Serato v5.0 will have morphing vinyl.

Another this is I like to mark my records. Like my "trick records", I will have the first beat marked. I will have the first vocal marked. If there is a good break, I will mark that too. I don't do that to all my records, but the ones I really cut up, I will do that. I know you can set points on the file, still not the same. I will still bring atleast one bag of records with me to any gig. As long as I can go back and forth between real and serato, I am cool.

One a related question, even though I should put this question elsewhere. Is the absolute first sound going to the same on each file on the records. I saw Rob Swift and friends of mine have put decals on there. I am just trying to figure out where is the best spot.

I wonder if they have similar conversations on the Nu-mark ipod dj board.

If pay to go see and DJ and he has crates on stage, I feel like I am getting my money's worth.

The funniest remark I have ever heard from somebody watching someone spin on Serato was "that guy must be really hooked on Myspace." I think the general public understand real vinyl, Serato is a lot for them to comprehend.

Much respect to Premier though. A lot of people feel that way and he voiced it. I like the way he put it.

Jazz One,

The morphing vinyl feature should be available in about 10 years. ;)
(I hope)

I agree wit Primo 100%. I have been spinnin & battlin for 7 years and young cats are always coming up to me asking which program to buy since I have now had them all (Traktor, FS2 & SSL) and I always tell them to start off on vinyl, then get digital because there is nothing that can give u the skills like using real wax. Besides like Primo said, u gotta pay them dues before u get to take advantage of such a revolutionary idea like digital djing...but then again alot of cats dont care about respect or paying dues. U cant call urself a dj & u have never spent hours & hours diggin breaks!! or whatever it is U spin.
One.
Sev, ShutEmDown. CSTcru

I don't see how digging for breaks = paying dues and respect.
I've probably spent no more than 1 or 2 hours digging for breaks in my 7-8 yrs of digging. Aww man, guess i cant call myself a dj... Actually all i dig for these days are obscure records that might have dope sounds to make beats with.

BTW Ppl who loop breaks over their productions are lazy.. make your own fucn drums or at least mangle the fucn loop to the point of unrecognition

If you haven't read all 192 posts on this thread, you haven't paid your dues to even respond to this thread. :P

lol!!

Amen! to that Sixxx! LOL

anyone who calls them self a dj and does not know how to scratch is not one. also if you call your self a dj and dont own any vinyl or a 1200... well?????

well I got a doozy... is someone a DJ they can't beat match?

If Primere is such a purist... maybe he should stop sampling, and come up with "original" compositions.

that's total bs. scratching doesn't make you a dj. you could teach a monkey how to scratch. just because someone is proficient in scratching doesn't mean they can dj. if your music selection/collection sucks, you have no idea how to sequence or play music that people want to hear in an order that people want to hear..... oh but you can scratch. come dj for me. that'll be the worst party ever.

on the other hand, i'll take a dj who knows how to play a party, has good music, etc over some cat who can "scratch" any day. any club/bar owner will too. stick to the turntablist circut if you want to grow fur on your palms and hole up in your room all day and scratch.

i'm not knocking the shit. it's just not my thing anymore. when i got my first set of decks for xmas in 8th grade after i watched juice that's all i was into. i was scratching and rocking doubles all day + everyday. but eventually i outgrew it. that wasn't going to win me any bread. and is honestly not anywhere near as fun as rocking a party for me. i enjoy rocking parties, it's the best part of djing for me. to me this is what it's about.

and like i said, i'm not knocking turntablists at all. it's a respectable field in djing.

but to equate dj = ability to scratch

you're totally wrong.

this is all bullshit. you guys talk about purists and microwave dj's and paying your dues, when in fact ALL OF US are all of these things.

yea that's right - i said it.

we all play somebody else's music - and that's that. yes, i understand there is an art to mixing/scratching/etc but how many of you guys can say you can pick up all these instruments and play the tunes you're playing off your discs and records? exactly.

i'm not calling you guys posers, because i respect every musician in their own right whether they be a guitar player, a drummer, a singer, or a dj - it's all the same to me. but i don't believe any of us have to 'pay our dues' just because some people weren't into real vinyl and all that.

anybody who says they have to pay their dues on the tables better be prepared to play each individual part on the instruments that created the songs that they play. i know i can't. can you?

A lot of people in this thread don't understand that DJ's weren't born with the advent of the scratch. The craft was around for decades before people were scratching...and if you don't know that, you know the history of hip-hop and not the REAL history of DJ'ing.

so true...

Paying dues goes without saying. Everybody (Premo included) started out sucking ass on the decks. DJs learn through trial and error; you make mistakes and you learn from them. But having 1000s of records and digging in the crates? That's BS. Sure they're great--I'd love to have 1000s of records and I enjoy digging in the crates every now and then--but they don't make you a skilled DJ. Practice, good technique, knowing how to rock a party--that's what makes you a good DJ.

I think the term microwave DJ is totally retarded. Why can't someone who's just starting out use serato right away? Why is using mp3s or whatever as your sound source somehow inferior to vinyl?

People who pay too much attention to paying dues and following the "rules" end up stagnating and sounding like everyone else. It's like in hip-hop production--there's a "rule" that you can't sample other producers' drums. I think that is so dumb. Why not? Who cares? I read an article (also in Scratch) with Kanye who was saying that he used to take drums from all kinds of producers--he knew he was breaking a rule but he didn't care. Now look at him, he's huge. Why would anyone who wants to succeed adhere to someone else's dumb-ass set of rules? The purists always get left behind.

Some hints:
There are new jacks out there who think they are a DJ by owning 5000 songs, which they copied from their friend or downloaded from an illegal peer to peer service from the internet.

As you said, "Practice, good technique, knowing how to rock a party--that's what makes you a good DJ.". Thats what the microwavians are lacking.

Ok, yeah I get that, but isn't this simply a case of a bad DJ? Or even more accurately, a beginner DJ? I know that with only turntables and a mixer you're forced to build up your collection over time, but does that really matter? Whether you've got serato and 5000 mp3s or turntables and 5000 records when you first start out, you still need to build up your skills.

It just sounds like Premier is hating on beginners.

the microwavians.... that's pretty funny.

they should form some sort of organized society and lobby for acceptance into the U.N.

what would the flag look like?

What I'm saying is that if someone shows up to a gig with 5000 mp3s and they think they're a DJ but they have no skills then they'll suck--but they would suck regardless because they're beginners. Let them learn the hard way.

Microwave DJ is a DJ that COULD NOT BE A DJ if it weren't for technology... it means, like a microwave oven, you can get good in seconds, instead of DJ who had to spend years learning... but here is the problem with microwave DJs

With technology there is the question of undefined limits. Who decides when the manufacturer has gone to far?

I think we as a collective, and for our interests, should pull the reins on the makers starting now.

Soon technology will have auto playlists, and provide the best cue points, while beatmatching for you. You might think it is impossible that some cheap DJ will take your club gig for 1/2 the price, just plug in his laptop, spend the whole night at the bar while the software program rocked the crowd -- but if u asked me 15 years ago if DJs that couldn’t beat match or drop mix could rock a crowd. I would have laughed. I am not laughing anymore.

But as even we have our limits about how far to take 'pretend DJing', the new guy WILL BE ON THIS VERY FORUM arguing 'who cares about how you rock the crowd just as long as you load the right group of songs in a set. Who cares if the program has an auto playlist? I bought those songs, don't I get credit for choosing them?".

This might seem ridiculous, but new cats keep coming, just like these new cats that came on the scene that can't beat match and use the software to do it for them. Who decides when technology has gone to far?

Technology does have the ability to make the skilled DJ obsolete. A DJ will say to the promoter, I will do that job for half price, and bring his laptop, and spend the night @ the bar..... and that's it..

Who here would be surprised if a software company made a program that did it all (autoplaylist, cue point, beat match and effects software) and them some DJ -- who has residencies -- argued in his own defense that he should be called a legitimate DJ cause he gets paid, and he is the one that programmed the software before each and every gig?

He could even use the argument comparing it to an assembly line. "No one hand-makes cars anymore. Doesn’t the guy that does quality control, or that guides the machines get credit. Nothing would be made without him guiding the machinery".

Who decides the limits of technology when it comes to DJing?

You should be able to switch from medium to medium relatively easily. You should be able to learn new software in a week or two. If you computer crashes, you should be able to a least do chit on regular systems if the promoter or your friend has it. You should be able to go to your mates house, and although he rocks on a different system, whatever it is, you should have a least an eagerness to learn it and try things -- and have the basic skills that will allow an easier transition, and to be able to jump in notice and correct a bad beatmatcher, or any other correctable problem.

You should rule the software, not the software rule you. If the new software can't hang, you should be able to compensate for its mistakes. If you can't just reach over and compensate for the software’s beatmatching mistakes -- then you’re NOT a real DJ.. you are a software DJ..

If your trying a new software's in a store for example (new and maybe a cheap program, but you just should try it -- you shouldn't run and duck and avoid trying it if the store rep says "check this out".... LOL) and the software beatmatcher is 'off' then if you should be able to reach over and pull the reins yourself. If the beat starts getting all crazy and lost, and you can't manually control it for chit, can you look the sales rep straight in the eyes?? CAN YOU?

You can switch from raw skills to any medium with little or no effort; you just need to learn the software. Then you are a DJ. But it is not as easy to switch from being a software ASSISTED DJ to raw skillz.... period.

Software DJs can not make the transition to raw skills as easy as a raw skills DJ can go to any medium.

Bottom line: a DJ should be able to go from any set up to any set with relative ease, with maybe a short learning period to learn the software -- rather than some software DJs that need months or even years to learn how to beat match.

If you use the rock the crowd argument -- I have rocked a small house party with an I-pod before. Yeah, maybe that makes someone a DJ, but not a real DJ. If you can't go from medium to medium easily, if your presentation is very computer program DEPENDENT, I will give you that you are a 'crowd rocker' -- but your not a DJ, and maybe a fraud.

Like a guy who invents software to play chess. He can program the software to beat the great Russian chess giant. But can he take credit and say HE beat the Russian in chess?

When it comes time to do the chit yourself without sotware on a different set up, you have to be able to represent or you are HEAVILY assited by software.. and a fraud. It is the software that made you a repsectable DJ; thus u r a pretenter cause you are not universal from set up top set up... so, please, if you're can't survive on different set ups, give your software program a big kiss!

Word.

Holly crap this thread is still alive and most of you are REALLY late.

Good points btw.

At this point I think it would be really enlightening if some DJs who just started out and are using serato right away could chime in. Are there any of you out there? Do you rely heavily (or solely) on the BPM information given to you by the software when you beatmatch?

I understand what everyone means (I think)--when you learn to DJ on serato you probably rely too heavily on the bpm information when you beatmatch and therefore would be screwed if you had to use just turntables and vinyl. But isn't this kind of like the acoustic guitar/electric guitar debate where the folkies say, "what are you going to do if there's a power outage?"

at least if there is a power outage ou won't look stupid, as 'giving it your best shot' but can't beat match for chit... (or you could avoid the invitation when at a friends house, he knows you DJ, he's got all the hot records, and say "let fool around on the deck"... then you will look more stupid

I still say to learn the basics; cause u can go from raw 12s to be an mp3 dj easily, but not vice versa....

It is a shame that DJs that didn't do things the ‘right way’ might go somewhere where there are analogue decks and a mixer and can't rep for shit.. If they’re lucky it won't happen to them, or……… they might AVOID ever getting into that circumstance... BUT SHOULD THEY HAVE TO AVOID THAT SITUATION. (They just need to hope they never get into that situation).

I know, I know you can go to any new technology and there will be a learning curve. But two things should be considered. That the learning curve might be a month on new technology for the raw DJ, where the technology DJ might have to go through years a practice to be the same caliber on raw decks as he is on technology, and it even might never happen (I know a few Djs back in the day who gave up cause the couldn’t get it right).

And the other thing is the way the ideology – both the proponents in denial and opponents of new technology --- works is like this. If Q-bert tried to rep on an MP3 set up but sucked ass, we would still think that he has proven himself, and that in time he WILL rep shit.

But if the big time mp3 DJ went over to analogue and sucks ass, our impression of him is bond in historical notions of DJ skills. How would YOU view him?

If an MP3 ass rocking DJ went over to vinyl and a mixer and could not JUGGLE, or BEAT MATCH to save his life – be real now – how would you view him???

Anyone I know personally in my city that is an mp3 player, one day I will invite him/her to my house under the pretence of watching the super bowl, or UFC, or the World Series.. and afterwards I will lure them over to the decks and say.."It’s only twelves man, let's fool around on them".

I hope they can rep, because, all the psychological resistance towards our claim that you should learn the basics won't save them from the self revealing unavoidable feeling of shame..

The question that needs to be asked is, if they were so bent on defending their perspective, then why does a situation exist (the one mentioned above) that will stir feeling of shame?... lol.. (shame, shame, shame, shame, shame, shame, shame. Shame)….LOL..

or better put, who here that can't beat match and use software.. will try on regular decks??

and when it sounds horrible cause you can't beatmatch.. will you look me in my eye and not feel a thing saying at least "you can rock a crowd"??

will you say in your defence, "at least *I* can rock a crowd"??

click, when you say "you" do mean me in particular?

I guess I also kind of feel like one day (dare I say it) vinyl DJs will be obsolete. I mean, I love the feel of vinyl and all--and I think that vinyl is still valuable for acapellas/instrumentals for remix purposes--but digital DJing just seems way too practical to not overtake vinyl DJing. Then this kind of discussion will be laughable to new DJs and nostalgic for old curmudgeon DJs.

Got this off of Dictionary.com

2 entries found for disc jockey.
disc jockey also disk jockey
n.
An announcer who presents and comments on popular recorded music, especially on the radio; a DJ.

[Download Now or Buy the Book]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


disc jockey

n : a person who announces and plays popular recorded music [syn: disk jockey, dj]


Nothing mentioned about how it's done.
Relax everybody...technology brings change. In the end what's important is that we play the tracks that make people happy.
Whether you use Turntables, Cd Players, ipods, or you fart the music out your ass the end result needs to be that people enjoy what you do.

It's cool that Primo has his definition on what a person should experience to become a "real dj" but it is his definition.

As a person who cringes when he sees dj's using cd players, or gets physically ill when he sees ads for ipod dj contest and that Numark ipod dj mixer, I completely undersand why everybody is so "disturbed" by this thread; However, 9 times out of 10 all the people care about is hearing the music.
To the average person they have no idea that dj's use turntables still.
For those of us who still use turntables how often has someone come up to you and comment in some way shape or form about you still using vinyl?
I know that it happens to me alot.
How many of us even noticed when radio stations transitioned from playing Records to CDs, and then from CDs to MP3s?
Did you care????
I can tell you that most of our audiences don't really care. They just want to dance. Of course if you can mix, scratch, and program with the best of them then your 5 steps ahead of the game.
If not...I feel bad for ya, but I wouldn't strip the "DJ" title from you for being unskilled.

Click, I feel what you are saying.

Society, you can BPM real vinyl. I remember one weekend I put two 10 hour days into BPMing my vinyl with tap tempo. I got about half way thought my records. I for sure did all my gig vinyl. I must have drove my neighbors crazy, I played about 30 seconds of hundreds of records. It was a pain in the ass to do, but it was worth it. After that I wouldn't even put a record in a crate until it was bpm'd. It is easier to do four or five at a time compared to hundreds. I relied heavily on the BPM info I had on the masking tape on the record sleeves.

Exactly.

you right about vinyl soon being going going gone (i believe anyways)...

but 'I' means DJs microwave, software dependend DJs.

Beat matching is the easiest thing in the world; and, rather than scratching, I think, should be the fundemental skill for DJs. My wife can song select, so now anyone can be a DJ -- there is no skill involved anymore. When I was ten I made cassette tapes, they weren't mixed or anything, but I chose the order of the songs -- did that make me a DJ??

so going off of the obsoloeteness of a DJ -- a great show will be in 100 years, "a DJ will blind fold himself ladies and gentlemen, and mix the two songs with only his hand and his ears, prepare to be amazed!!!"

I just think to be a DJ, you have to be able to DJ with anything makers make with a short leanrning curve -- rather than one that can't touch that software, or that set up cause it doesn't have a beatmatcher... like WTF?

Exactly--I kind of forgot about that point. I bpm my vinyl too.

i like this quote.. ;)

check this article out... a bit long, but read the first few paragraphs, and then go to page 18, or #5 the london nightclub test....

www.hpl.hp.com

Yeah, for sure you should be able to beatmatch by ear, and I agree, beatmatching is one of the most important skills for a DJ to cultivate. Yet there are a lot of DJs out there who can't beatmatch very well but they still hold it down. And I'd say that song selection is at least 50% of the job. I used to have a roommate with impeccable music taste and I always told him he was halfway to being a DJ.

There used to be a funk night at the club across the street from my old apartment and it was always rammed out--it was a Wednesday and it was usually their busiest night. I remember the first time I went there I was psyched, and to my horror I found the DJ didn't beatmatch at all--she didn't even really mix. One song would start to fade as the next one (rather sloppily) started to fade in over top. I was honesly pissed off--it messed up my dancing. But I also noticed that I seemed to be the only one that cared. Everyone else was dancing like a maniac, and whoever I mentioned this lack of mixing to claimed they'd never noticed it before.
Basically this DJ had no traditional DJ skills (or if she did, she didn't display them) yet she held down one of the most popular residencies around. Why? Because she had incredible track selection skills and 90% of the world couldn't give a shit about DJ skills.

Whoa! Awesome document!

You make some REALLY interesting points society.

But, not to be an utter jerk, but dictionary meanings are trying to keep up with society rather than society learning from the dictionary. It might indeed be a two way street, but a dictionary can only reproduce what society thinks and we can create our own popular definition. The very first dictionary in the 1800s had a preface that read: "the words of slang today, will be the words of the purist tomorrow". My definition of a DJ is one that a manufacturer can go to and say, "you're a DJ, try my product”, and you can, AS A DJ. Not say, well I can only DJ with this one particular product.

Personally, I can buy anything and learn it. Some DJs can't do that.

You say people just want to hear music. But I content that you it is possible to hear music from a fraud (who fools the people) -- like the wizard of OZ. There are DJs who do what the other DJ pretends to do.

Here are three examples.. Steroids are one. People come to see that fastest man or strongest man. But do they care that the person cheated?

Another is Pro wrestling vs. real fighting. For a long time people didn't know WWF (before it became E) was staged. It was in the late 80s that (sanctioning came heavy) Vince McMann had to admit it was 'entertainment'.

Or magic -- Harry Houdini. People paid because they believed it was real. I don't know if it was or not (I do know he died because a failed stunt), but now you have a whole slew of 'escape artist' who are not really escape artist but illusionists. I admit the presentation is what is important. Give the people something to believe in. But now you also have legitimate escape artists that are pissed.

So I can't dispute whether or not the crowd cares -- because indeed they came to hear music, but I can pose the interesting question asking what constitutes the real, and what constitutes a fraud, or whether or not someone can trick the people.

People indeed hear music, like it -- the mixes, and the transitions. But is that (the mixes) really YOUR skill?

And then the argument goes further. What if a DJ maker made autoplaylist software (it's going to happen)? So, although all people care about is hearing music, and considering the 'art' of the DJ, is the software DJ in this case a fraud?

i did a lot for sorting purposes

Yes I can. Drums and Guitar but I feel what your saying Too bad I can't sing all that good though

Hey sixxx can I get some of your popcorn?

Don’t get me wrong I am all for technology, but I just think people should be able to transition from set up to set up with little effort.

You can't be at a party where the DJ gets sick, and everyone knows you DJ and are willing to pay, they have the latest songs, but you try your best to avoid having to go up there because it is regular vinyl and mixer.




And Society, you made some great points, but with the cue/fade out DJ. There are also DJs that put it pre-made CDs and turn it up and rock the crowd. To see live DJ, I contend, is different. But, yes, there are different ways to rock the crowd. But I just thing the software DJ shouldn't avoid situations were he can't 'rep' on alternative set ups. It is one thing to say you can't play because you don't know that program, but it is a hell of a lot different (especially if everyone knows u DJ) to say you can't rep on raw decks and mixer when they have all the tracks you have on vinyl -- two totally different revelations of a DJ worth.

****And Society, you made some great points, but with the cue/fade out DJ, there are also DJs that put *in* pre-made CDs and turn it up and rock the crowd.

To see live DJ, I contend, is different. But, yes, there are different ways to rock the crowd. But I just *think* the software DJ shouldn't avoid situations were he can't 'rep' on alternative set ups.

It is one thing to say you can't play because you don't know that program, but it is a hell of a lot different (especially if everyone knows u DJ) to say you can't rep because it is raw decks and mixer **-- especialy when they have all the tracks that you have on MP3 on vinyl --** two totally different revelations of a DJ worth.

Umm, I'm not so sure about that:

en.wikipedia.org

but houdini did take punches from anyone (no padding or camera tricks) and that is the stunt that killed him...

The thing is Click (and I understand what you're saying) is that although people will of course prefer to see a good dj (and a good dj is being defined as a jock who can program, beat match, scratch, and even rock the mic) over a guy who just know's what songs to play and when. But...if that guy who is only good at picking songs is working at a venue then most of the people will be cool with that. They're not going to turn their noses up at the guy for not beat matching.

The foundation of being a dj is playing music for people. Everything after that is added skill and technique.

All this thread is proving is how snotty and full of ourselves that we can be regarding being a DJ (myself included).
I would just hate for a new DJ to be discouraged because he didn't pay his dues.
On the real....it's really hard to be able to even try and pay dues because vinyl is so scarce for most DJ's. Unless you're in a record pool, or know someone in a record pool then you either have to order your vinyl online, or trek miles to whatever store carries a descent amount of it.

To be honest...I think that it's actually harder for new DJ's because of the fact that so much music is accessible.
When I purchased vinyl I didn't have alot of money to spend so I made sure that I got the bangers! And of course I only had so much space and energy to carry crates so I choose what I brought with me wisely. So..it was easier to rock the party because I had a couple of crates of bangers.
Now with a virtually unlimited amount of music that we can carry the new issue is "WHAT TO PLAY!!!!" Now you definitely have to know your crowd. And on top that you have to deal with maintening and trouble shooting computer equipment.

I don't know...I think regardless of what you do there requires a certain set of skills and due paying.

It was a demonstration of his abdominal strength, but he wasn't ready. It was like a sucker microwaver trying to rock a 1,000-person crowd.

You mentioned bangers, and the points you make are worthy of being a banger of a point. Some heavy points yo!

But, I just think to be a DJ, you should be able to easily transition from set up to set up easily, and not be **totally** supported by this particular tool or that particular software. You should have the foundation to feel free to move around..

Learning the foundations will enable a DJ to be flexible about what he buys...

Oh chit man! i just laughed and spilled my freakin hot coffe you jerk!!

Sorry. Hope the keyboard is OK. ;)

naw it's cool.. I spilled it on the wife's new shoes..

I was concerned, but you just put it in perspective. Thanks for making me feel better man..

Click....you're right. But being able to handle different set ups, and different situatons in my opinion should count towards how good you are, and how much of professional you are.

The times and technology is changing so doesn't it make sense that the foundations are changing at certain levels as well?

Why learn crate digging when you don't have crates to dig through? Why learn how to spin on a turntable if you want to use CD players? Yes...turntables, vinyl, and crates are the foundation of what we do....but if you're not going to use those tools then why learn them? It's not like technology is going to go backwards and we're going to roll back to 2 turntables and a mixer. (although sometimes I wish that we would LOL).

It's all good. My mantra for the 06 is to live, and let live. At the end of the day what really matters for dj silk is that dj silk does what works well for him. If anyone doesn't like it then they can go kick rocks!! LOL :-)
This is a great discussion by the way.

if u link up a bunch of alesis Air FX (www.soundonsound.com) to ssl ...one each to control each parameter (pitch/tempo/cue points/start/stop)...u won't ever have to touch anything (mixer/tables/lappy).

I agree. Why are DJs judged based on which media they prefer? Maybe one day DJs will be regarded for HOW MANY different media they use.

While we're in here watching people knock each other, maybe we should consider a thread to let vinyl-only (no software) DJs knock us. For all our rants about what a "real DJ" is, have we forgotten how new SSL is to the field?

I think the biggest issue is that this artform is in a period of major transition. People from the old guard (that is, we who are used to using vinyl) will have a hard time accepting newbies who don't do things like we did, but I think it's important to understand it from their perspective--why should they learn the old way when the new way is so much more efficient?

It reminds me of when I took some electro-acoustic composition classes at university. Normally the first step in a course like this is recording onto tape and splicing it up to edit it into a piece of music. By the time I took the course the professor said they'd stopped teaching tape techniques a few years back because it's so outdated; with tape splicing it could literally take 5 hours to make a 15 second composition, while with Pro Tools it takes 5 minutes (or less). There was a period when they taught both analog and digital techniques but eventually it was strictly Pro Tools and tape editing was part of the history lesson.

I think eventually the same thing will happen with DJing. Click, your point about being able to switch between set-ups is totally valid and instinctually I agree with it, I just think that eventually using a strictly vinyl/turntable setup will be part of the history of DJing as opposed to a part of the technique of DJing. And I think that will happen sooner than we think...

I also agree with Silk's point about not discouraging new DJs starting out with serato. They need to know: don't think you're faking the funk by using this product to start out with, or not "paying your dues." It's entirely possible that you could smoke almost anyone on this board in no time (with some earnest practice, of course).

Good points yo...

but, i still think, for the time being, DJs shouldn't be 100% dependent on a specific tool....


and not easily be able learn, or know how to use the other products that are available..

and, regardless of tape splicing (no offense) but I think that to be called a DJ you should be able to step onto any reasonable system and know how to make your mixes not sound like a train wreck... period.

If you can't even have a clue how to control a train wreck on a reasonable system -- sure you can rock the crowd -- you're a cheater.

Remember cheater can run just a fast or even faster than anyone, lift as much, or even more than anyone.... win a chess game against the russian champ because he has computer software in his retina and can be given new moves..... (basically do what anyone can do, and maybe better, even 'rock a crowd'), but it's cheating...

You should be able to avoid and/or control a train wreck!

Call me an ol softy, but that just how I see it..

the difference only matters to us djs, not to the audiences, unless someone train wrecks! now, to me, the difference is in the execution of the art: if a painter takes a blank canvas & creates a wonderful image, he is considered talented...what if another painter paints the same picture by numbers? (remember those paint by number kits?) do we still think he's an artist, or even talented, just because he came up with the same picture? probably not. however, the person buying that picture to hang over their sofa doesnt really care how the picture was created-only the artists behind the scenes do. so WE (painters with blank canvas) kinda look down upon THEM (paint by number DJs), but the purchaser (partygoer) doesnt really care, unless the product is bad.

It is true that I could paint something and someone else can do it with software.

So what makes one art more precious than the other?

We both making big size paintings and neither offers a description of the art; except, I expect that is it explicit that I painted mine, while the software 'painter' offers no explanation.

But, it is also true that the buyer will make a serious discernment between the painted one and the software one -- even though it would take an expert to tell the difference between the two.

But consider that both 'rock the crowd'.

^^^ i mean, hypothetically, if the paintings were identical...^^^

Taken frm a cat named emarx on another board...

like i said, the buyer doesnt notice or care about the difference, its just the artists (us) who have the debate.

Do you really hink so?

Maybe you, but not me..

It's all about performance. How well you rock the crowd using turntables (for turntablists like myself); whether I have my computer and my ext HD to provide me with music. I still gotta be the one to manupulate the turntables and mixer in a way that's entertaining with skills, creativy and accuracy.

It may be all about performace, but I still lean towards the sports steriods analogy.. You could win the race, break the world record, the best performance the crowd has seen, they don't really care how you did it -- but you took shortcuts...

Remember my plea that new DJs shout AT LEAST no how to avoid a train wreck...

How would you survive if this happened to you.. -----> scratchlive.net

Oh Yes they do care... otherwise all these scandals about steroiod use from well known athletes wouldn't be scandals.


----

Cheating is cheating. When you get caught that is.

WOW.... 84% of you are fags. All this "microwave DJ", "old-gaurd", "technology" talk. WHO CARES!? Only time will tell. I do agree that not everyone deserves a Serato, especially cats that just want
DJ for the sake of being called "a DJ" and cats that own only 2 records (control vinyls)... Anyway, this topic is stoooopid, I can't believe it lasted this long. This is a NO-WIN gihts, so y'all might as well stop arguing about it.

Nah, more like 1 in 10. Does that bother you?

I'm sorry, I don't understand your attempt at smart humor... can you please clarify... Or am I reading too much into your post. But yes, 9 out of 10 ppl on this msg board bug the hell out of me. Too many ppl frontin, acting like DJ GOD of ALL MUSIC.... quite annoying, this is the down side of Serato.

Wait. How is that Serato's fault? DJ's who think they're GOD of ALL MUSIC thought so before SSL existed.

...and anyone who annoys you is a fag. Now I know where you stand.

punosion gets it.

I never specifically called "sixxx" or "punosion" out- so you two need to chill. Maybe, my hyperbole was over-looked. I will clarify... I did not LITERALLY mean "9 out of 10 on this msg board bug the hell out of me"... I just meant, quite a few bug the hell out of me.



At least those cats appreciate the hard work it takes to become an established DJ. In my opinion, as long as you are working hard to improve your skill, I have no problem with you, but people that claim ripping music, downloading from Limewire or tapping out BPMs as hard work and as "paying dues" are frontin.

SolKim.

First of all, I didn't think you called me out and I'm not responding to you in that way. I'm just responding to a post just like I do to any other.

No need to chill cause I'm cool. I'm just asking a question.

How is that Serato's fault?

mmmmm?

Sixxx,
In my opinon its ok to own a Serato for convenience and travel/tour schedules. It is NOT OK to own a Serato as your first piece of DJ equipment or bc you want to "be a DJ". Does that make sense. Its wierd, i have a very strong opinion on this, but its hard for me to explain. I'm not "an old school-purist" and I am definitly not a technology nerd either. I'm somewhere in between.

another thing I dont get is Serato for CD decks? Is carrying 2 books of 500 CD's THAT hard?

SolKim, you're a pretty raucous cat..

How do you fly under the ban radar like that?

scratchlive.net

scratchlive.net

scratchlive.net

scratchlive.net

scratchlive.net

scratchlive.net

scratchlive.net

scratchlive.net

scratchlive.net

scratchlive.net

I understand this and agree 100%.

But my question was asked because you said that:

"Too many ppl frontin, acting like DJ GOD of ALL MUSIC.... quite annoying, this is the down side of Serato."

So, how is it Serato's fault that too many ppl are frontin' and actin' like DJ GOD of ALL MUSIC.

:)

Wait. I think I understand now. You're speaking of those who buy Serato then think they're hot ass shit and that's all they know: Serato.

Those are "microwave" DJ's.

I still think that's not Serato's fault. That's THEIR fault for being IGNORANT.

Wow Click! Nice Bibliography of my posts. But you didn't use MLS format so I must deduct some points...

I stay under the "ban radar" bc i havent committed any bannable offenses. Maybe I shoulda gotten banned when i tried to sell my Powermate on here, which was an honest mistake. I've seen others trying to sell their equipment on here so I thought it was ok for me to do the same. But anyway, I'm not banned or getting banned bc the only thing I do is express my opinions. I never said I was right or wrong, its just how I might feel on that particular day.

scratchlive.net

scratchlive.net

scratchlive.net

I thnk these three exemplify your immortality..

Click. Don't jump into stuff that doesn't concern you. Period.

I say that cause you're not helping matters.

and this demonstrates your pure invincibleness

scratchlive.net

ummm, sixxx I have been most vocal in this thread, and he did say....



So.........

you might have one interpretation of what concerns me, but I ask that you recognize that I have my own.....

First of all CLick, You are one of the few on this board that bug me with your constnat talk of "Ban" and "ban radar". Yea, me and Joshua had a little argument on the morality of smoking weed, we fought and squashed it amicably- Like two grown men should. 2nd of all, I was sitting right next to one of Roctakon's co-workers/best friends when he told me to start messin with Roctakon. So like Sixxx says, mind your own business or at least read the entire thread before you start poppin off at the mouth.

Sixx,
I think we are on the same page now :) Its kinda like the whole gun argument... SHould we blame the gun manufacturers or the gun owners when it comes to gun crimes? I tend to blame the manufacturers while you might blame the owners. We agree to disagree, but its all good.

CLICK,

YOURE NOT MAKING SENSE!!! Please, we are talking about owning/earning serato... NOT if I should be banned or not. If you really want me to be banned, by all means necessary, do what you gotta do, but other than that I dont think too many people care

so... if..



and then you say...



Then justify..



with..



supplemented again by..



I should aoplogize if you assure me that...



Had nothing to do with me.

If you can confirm that



I am not included in this number, I will admit it wasn't my concern...

If you can confirm that



has nothing to do with me, I will admit it wasn't my concern...

84% of you are fags.... I guess if the shoe fits click then by all means defend yoursef. :)

You need to realize that he's generalizing. That's an opinion. Do you think he asked the entire forum and came out with an actual percentage? Oh pppplease.

Click. You just LOVE to argue.

and?













;)

Well-played, click... ;)

should I just be super-specific and explicitly say that "The only fags on this msg board are Click and Punosion"? LOL, just kidding! seriously :P

So, you're grouping me in with that 84%, whatever you want to call them? Or are you grouping me in with "fags?"

Back on topic please.

DJ Premier speaks on SSL and how you have to earn it

Just like you carry Serato for convenience I do the same w/ my CD players.

I don't think it's just that. CD Dj's love SSL because of the search function. You can find a track with ease instead of flippin' through CD's trying to find a song. Then, loading. Unloading. etc.

Full-text tag searching. That's at least one BIG reason I'd still use Serato if I went (back) to CD decks.

Beat me to it. :)

but six, lazy is cool, as long as your not lying (cheating).... lol ..


(choose a side of the debate and i'll choose the other..;) )

I see. I was just thinking that CD's are WAY easier to replace than vinyl. I just don't see that huge of an advantage or convenience factor when it comes to bringing a $2000 laptop vs. bringing $2000 worth of CDs out. I can def. see the advantages of the search function. that shit is nice.

and sixxx, u haved way to much time on your hands to go searching for past posts I made you loser!!

Like what kind of loser would search for someones past post???

Get a life!!

Yeah, and if you like loops and the like, you can of course make "perma-loops" instead of making ones on-the-fly via a sampler, etc. The SSL interface IMHO is far easier and nicer for loop creation than any CD player I've used.

Ok...The only way anybody should earn Serato is by paying the $500 to purchase it. :-)
It's an MP3 world lately and Serato is an MP3 tool.

At first I was feeling what Primo was saying...but the more I think about it the more I disagree.
The fact is...it's an expensive software package...especially considering that you also have to get a laptop, and eventually an external drive.
Most start out DJ's, and even midlevel DJ's in most cases don't have the loot to buy serato right off...and even if they did it doesn't matter anyway because the industry has switch gears toward the technology anyway. So in my humble opinion anyone who makes the investment for Serato obviously is taking what they're doing seriously.

DAMN!!

There's a lot of rich kids out there that will get their shit as a gift! That's what sucks about it. Seriously.

brokeback

damn click! thats authentic hip hop; u sampled all of dudes words and rearranged them into something different!

LEt me quote Josh (Serato Mod) here:



C'mon, Sol, act like a grown man. You dont need to use the words like "fags" to make your point, thats the whole thing click was complaining about, and I certainly agree :) We dont have problems with homosexuality here on this board. I dont know about your ethnicity but imagine someone called someone here a [insert the n***** word] trying to insult someone, that would be wack as well, wouldnt it? Same goes for the fag word. click was commenting that other users also received a ban for not being nice. Anyway, back to topic.

Thanks for reading my post and agreeing with my views ;)

BTW, I was at a party yesterday and that DJ was soooooo wack. Couldnt beatmatch. Couldnt scratch. But the people were dancing. Fortunately he didnt use SSL. Real records were a barrier to getting into DJing cause you had to spend money on records, esp. if you wanted to do it seriously, with SSL this whole issue is gone. More wack and not serious DJs get into the market, hired by dumb club owner etc. Ruining. However, lets hope Darwin was right when he said "survival of the fittest", and this applies to the good djs.

Shadow said it best in Scratch:

"Digging won't make a bad DJ good, but it will make a good DJ better."

Then there is this old line:

"Cream rises to the top."

And Chappelle put it well with:

"And some people prefer cucumbers pickled."

Do what works for you, work hard, study music, watch other DJ's, have fun and love what you do.

As you get older your ideologies, guiding lights, hopes, dreams and aspirations are at times squashed by realities that are out of your control.

It is indeed disheartening when you learn there is no real superman, the great Christopher Columbus was a slave trader, and our founding father George Washington was a slave owner. Anyways, my point is that you better be ready to accept any disappointment and a rearranging of the ideologies that have sustained you moral center and confidence.

It was only last month -- and I have live many years -- that I reached into my bag of reassuring, heartening and comforting ideologies and professed the same "cream rises to the crop" as encouragement. A friend looked me dead in the eye and said "so does scum".
. :-(..

"cream rises to the crop".. correction "cream rises to the top"..

In my humble opinion, though, this is actually the most important thing that I said:



The older I get, the less I care about what other people think I should be doing or playing, and the less I care about "making it" as a DJ.

To quote the great Jazzy Jeff:

"Back then, it was new. Hip Hop wasn't our parents music. The whole era of Hip Hop was OURS."

And back then, I believed in the music that was bumping through my speakers. As I got older, I wanted to be an active participant in the music, not just a passive listener. I can't rap for shit, and in fact, never really cared to. What attracted me to hip hop was the raw beats. That is what drew me to drum and bass later on. That is the backbone of a lot of the rock and alternative stuff I listen to. Beats. And I wanted to manipulate those beats for my own pleasure.

So I started DJing. I didn't get decks to "rock a party" or get gigs. I didn't get decks to be cool. I got decks because I LOVE music. I wanted to be able to play other people's music my own way.

Turns out, a couple people in my area liked the way I played other people's music, so I ended up with a couple gigs, had a few residencies, made a little money, whatever... I still just love the music. I have just recently moved to a new area that has a far stronger market for DJ's.

And I haven't even handed out a demo.

I still rock my decks (and SSL) almost every day. I work on coming up with new blends, new mixes, finding tunes in my crates that work with other tunes in my collection that I had never thought of putting together; I work on juggling and scratching; I strive to diversify my music collection to make my DJing a unique experience to me. And I couldn't give a damn if I ever play for an audience again. I love what I do, and that is why I do it. If you DJ for any reason other than a love of music, then I don't understand why you started DJing in the first place. I can understand once DJing is your job why you would continue to DJ, but without a love of music, why would you even start?

But that is just me. Maybe you could enlighten me as to why you would want to DJ other than a genuine love of music.

And as for ideologies, guiding lights, hopes, dreams, and aspirations, my hopes and dreams are this: I want to be a loving husband, a good father, a caring brother, a great friend, a helpful neighbor, a wonderful son, and an honest man. There is no reality in this world that could squash that hope and dream.

Don't lose sight of what is truly important in this world. If a 14 year old kid wants to start DJing and is lucky enough to get SSL from the get-go, who fucking cares? It doesn't take anything away from you or do anything to change what you have done or what you have experienced. It doesn't make you less than what you already are. It just means that some kid that you don't know and probably will never meet has a cool product that lets them acquire and manipulate a large music collection in a short amount of time. We should all be so lucky.

But in the end, it is just a tool. SSL is a tool. Decks are a tool. A guitar is a tool. A drum kit is a tool. A mixer is a tool. They are just things, and what makes someone "real" has nothing to do with the things they have.

This is really great, but, not trying to be an ass, I know a few people, where the great "American' (or whatever you want to call it) dream didn't work out. They wanted to get married, but didn't; wanted kids, but it was a heartbreak to learn they couldn't.

So many people (sorry to be an ass again) start out thinking exactly with the 'ideologies' that you aspire above, but ideology and reality are two different things, and realities, for some, can be crushing – and that is a reality.

Try someone in a war torn country – he/she has to kill, lie, cheat, and steal to protect and preserve her/his family. That is his/her reality. I think you really need to differentiate between ideology and reality. What you wrote above is not a universal reality, but is an ideology. Our sweet beautiful ideologies are not realities to everyone -- no matter how hard they try. I am not making a glum contemplation for anyone, nor am I a downer, but I think there are psychological consequences when we confine our minds to that glorious ivory tower mindset.

And in regard to kids starting out on ssl. I wouldn't want my kids to start out with a software beat matcher. The reason is that one-day he/she could go to his/her friend’s house and that friend has regular decks. I don't want my kid to go through the moral dilemma of contemplating if he/she should tell her/his friend straight up"I can't beat match, the software does it for me", or trying, hoping for the best, and it sounding like a train wreck, and the friend thinking "but….. this cat rocks sweet blends at the club"; or try his best to divert and avoid the situation – hurt his hand/stomach ache/ “oh chit look @ the time/ “let go plat football”.

Maybe my kid will be big enough to man up. But then I can almost guarantee a lot of software DJs, even on this board won't man up. Simply, I would rather instill him with the pride to not have to contemplate that situation. But, if he has no qualm with saying "I can't beat match without software", I am also cool.

I know there are a few software dependent beat matchers on this very board. The point I am making is an asking -- which one will be man enough to step up and admit it? Not one!! And that is the point I am making.

So there are socially constructed implications that accompany a DJ that are set; and DJs will always be compared to each other and measured by each other. Even beat matching software DJs participate in the ‘rate the DJ’ ideology (ironically to their own psychological consequences [pointed out above]).

So one might feel shame if he is exposed, but if he is cool with not being able to beat match I’ll try to be cool. Regardless, if you try and your mixes sound like a train wreck, naturally, even for that split second, that software DJ will feel bad. Why put yourself through that?

If you are a software DJ, and if one day at a friends house, who has all the latest vinyl, will you man up and give his/her regular decks 'your best shot'?

And if you do (I respect you for trying) how will you feel if it sounds like train wreck?

Why put yourself through that?

(And if you take comfort in thinking, that will never happen to me, nor will I put myself in that situation (avoidance), then what are you psychologically saying to your self and what are you hiding?)

Technically that would make Grandmaster Flash, Grandmixer DXT, Jazzy Jay, etc. some very lazy people and there would probably be no reason to have SSL. I guess scratch musicians should just learn how to play a daggone instrument and get their lazy behinds off of those turntables ;)

Zion-Prayz, do you think anyone should use ssl or you should be a 'DJ' first?

cool nick by the way (Zion-Prayz)

Just because you can move a record back and forth doesn't mean you can scratch. I do agree that scratching <> DJ. The thing that seems to be missing from the new school is that pre-Qbert DIY a hip hop DJ had to be able to scratch, mix, and rock a party and you didn't limit yourself to rap.

Some people are specialists and there is nothing wrong with that just as there are "general practioner" DJs who can have a good grasp of all aspects and then there are people like Jazzy Jeff, Cash Money, Rob Swift, Mixmaster Mike, Babu, etc. that excel in all the aspects (too include battle skills). Actually even Qbert is a darn good all-around DJ even we ususally only see him to QFO demos these days.

The tools are just to help you do your job more efficiently. They rarely make up for lack of skill and they definitely won't make you a better scratcher (even in relative mode).

"General Practitioner"... I like that. Well said. You gotta be well rounded.

I don't see a problem with starting off with SSL but I do believe a person should learn the basic skills of DJing and not become too reliant on the technology. A calculator may help you do the math quicker but if you don't know the fundamentals God help you (or your customers) when you don't have one :)


Scratching is kind of the same way. Because the technology is available people are trying to learn 4-click flares before they can baby scratch halfway decent. I personally believe DJs that scratch should learn the techniques in the order they were "discovered" so that they have a good foundation for the fader-based scratches (I know because I just recently started getting back into it after not even touching turntables for several years and tried to catch up by trying to do crabs and flares but my record control was weak making everything sound bad. So I went back to the basics of record control which makes everything else sound better).

Extremely well put.

Why couldn't I have said it so well?

Ok, time to call it a thread... ;)

Nicely stated posts, Zion-Prayz...I pretty much agree all around.

BECAUSE YOU USE TOO MANY DAMN WORDS to TRY and get your point across.

I don't think there is anything under the sun that can't be said in alternative ways.. And yes, even with the best writers there is always analysis and critique.

Not saying I am even close to the best, but whether or not I GOT my point across varies from reader to reader -- so your claim above is an irresolvable issue (dead)……… did I get my point across here… ;)

Thanks for proving my point.

you mean you didn't get that?????

wow!! anyways, that proves A point



Had to include that or you might ask what that point was...

No offense click, I am a fan of longer posts, but not a fan of repetitive posts (while I understand why you keep repeating it)... And I just started to skip a lots of posts in this thread as almost *everything* and I mean *eeeeverything* has been said and repeated a dozen of times ;)

Result is, I unsubscribed from this discussion.

Why I posted again and read again? I had nothing better to do right now ;)

I'll just prove my point with a simple link.

www.scratchlive.net

wow!! you went there??

I don't know what the link really proves... maybe your having a problem making your point... lol..

(but it was a wee bit childish to include that link... :--) )

I am with you click.

The best part of that thread was Josh when he said


Reminded me of kindergarten ;) Sometimes its fun being a lil kid.

but man that djHSL was a real loon...

(had to get in a cheap shot -- yeah, yeah I admit is was cheap)

click, the point is... we don't wanna go back to something like that link.

Back on topic please. Thank you.

Whatcha think... wouldnt it be time to close that thread as eeeeveryhing has been said already?

I agree, but it would be nice to see more points of views from people who are just joining the forum.

Sixxx if you don't want to go back to that link don't 'go off topic' in this thread by making it a new topic that I don't make my points well.... ;)

That is off topic, so thank you for suggesting that we get back to the topic that YOU digressed from.. Do you @ least get that?

So basically, and summarily, your past few posts have drowned in irony..... is that a clear point?

Sixxx don't be a moron and send me idoitic PMs please...

CLICK. PRIVATE MESSAGES are for that purpose. So, that you (and I) could stop polluting boards. So, keep private messages as they should be. Private.

just don't send me idiotic ones...

i don't like them..

click, please, you have done that mistake once before - posting about your PMs ( you know which thread I am talking about ). Noone is interested in your, sixxx, mine, anyones PMs (okay maybe except the mods PMs, who wouldnt like to peek a glance :-P) , so as sixxx said, keep them private. If you think they are idiotic, ignore them. If you think sixx is stalking you CALL a mod, but dont post about it in public places.

your right Nik, but sometimes radical measures can keep the quality of PMs up..

Just ignore them if you dont like them. If its worth answering, answer them. Thats how I treat my PMs as well, and sooner or later the idiots stop PMing you cause they know you aint down with their game.

very true yo..

And now that the discussion has nothing with Premeir, "keeping it real" and SSL's place in the beginning DJ's reportoire, I will unsubscribe...

eventually software will be able to read the crowd and program playlists on the fly according to crowd reaction, beatmatch and even build momentum and slow down sets accordingly. that day is most definitely coming..

in a club setting where the dj plays top40 shit 90% of the time, software like this might make the club dj obsolete.

read the crowd or not -- using the calculator analogy -- u better be able to rep if something malfunctions -- or 'u a fraud' (or in lots of trouble)...

bullshit i say. you don't see producers telling ppl they have to earn the right to use a triton or mpc and that they need to start with a sp1200 w/ limited sampling time to learn the basics...

in the end, it doesnt friggin matter... if some rich newb has the loot to buy some 1200's, rane57, and a laptop, and download 2000 mp3s. hes still gonna have to learn to use everything. if he still sucks but ends up taking your job, its b/c he a good business man and or good at networking. i've seen enough shit djs at top venues to know that dj skills aren't everything when it comes to business

Producin' is whole different game though.

Great points. That's why I believer every DJ should be very well rounded... and that includes the business part of DJ'ing.

Thanks for participating.

Oooh. I don't know about crowd reaction but who knows.

Premier isnt even using Serato anymore (if he ever did). but hes mostly a producer so why would he need it.

DJs need it.. quick finding songs, & can bring ENTIRE collection, & saves years on your back since you dont have to carry crates! LOL

... Dancehall Queens on, let me go & check these fat asses out. LOL

most of us doesn't get few copies of promo like premier or other famous dj get.

i manage to get the orginal sleeve of run dmc, dead prez- hip hop. aft 2years. i wouldn risk bringin the record down to a club and play it. but i do play it at home. isnt it cool to have that music blasting in clubs and on vinyl too?

Most software cats cannot avoid their mixes sounding like a train wreck if the tried gear without their precious tool. A real DJ is not gear specfic OR DEPENDENT, he can go from sysem to system..

How would you survive if this happened to you.. -----> scratchlive.net

Close this thread its getting ridiculous. Premier is talking shite anyway.

true...

Just a ques before we lock her up...

Did anyone even notice this was intetional satire?

(I cut and pasted some cats thread [did the same thing] like maybe 7 posts before)

If anyone drives, i'm afraid you have to sell your car and buy a horse and cart before you can progress to using the internal combustion engine...

I learned to ride a horse before I learned to drive, therefore I qualify. Everyone else get the heck off of my road!

in my day's, we couldn't afford a horse... we had to make do with large goats or large pigs.

I think that's the wrong analogy. I think Premo means if you're not qualified, you shouldn't drive a formula 1 car... stick to a station wagon.l

but if you drive a formula 1 that is software enabled to avoid other cars, take corners, and be as linear in driving route as possible, your NOT a driver...

oh... i forgot the ... ;-)

I don't think so or all insurance rates would be the same for either car. Sorry buddy. You're wrong. :)

Ok then smart-ass...

But if you claim you are driving a formula 1 that is software enabled to avoid other cars, take corners, and be as linear in driving route as possible, your NOT a driver...]

So much for going in circles...

There are many different definitions of 'driving'...

My nephew 'drives' his kiddy car for crissy sake.. Is he a driver? yes he is... is he a REAL driver?.. No he is not!..

A kid could steal a car and crash it moments after he presses the gas.. did he drive? Yes.. is he a driver? NO..

Again, so much for going in circles..

Ok then smart-ass...

***"But if you claim you are driving a formula 1 that is software enabled to avoid other cars, take corners, and be as linear in driving route as possible, your NOT a driver..."****

So much for going in circles...

There are many different definitions of 'driving'...

My nephew 'drives' his kiddy car for crissy sake.. Is he a driver? yes he is... is he a REAL driver?.. No he is not!..

A kid could steal a car and crash it moments after he presses the gas.. did he drive? Yes.. is he a driver? NO..

Again, so much for going in circles..

"My nephew 'drives' his kiddy car for crissy sake.. Is he a driver? yes he is... is he a REAL driver?.. No he is not!..

A kid could steal a car and crash it moments after he presses the gas.. did he drive? Yes.. is he a driver? NO.."



I emphatically disagree.. if my nephew, or the child car thief asks me if they're a driver -- In all honesty I must say "no"..

and what if the software could 'drift'?.. what if the software was super intelligent? For hypothetical sake, what if the software could win a race -- IS THE PERSON BEHING THE WHEEL A REAL DRIVER in the formula 1 sense of the word (which is different from the "I just got my license " sense of the word)?

d:raf.. did you read this...



People who rely on software would be exposed if they couldn't hang if the software malfunctioned...

The reason I say exposed is because they don't want that to happen in public -- thus they are subconciously protective of a 'secret'. I haven't seen one person admit that they can't beat match, and I know a few are on this very board. DJs judge other DJs, and even the software DJ is implicated in this particular phenom that is DJ culture. If you were that software DJ that had the software fail, and all your mixes from there on in sounded like a train wreck, and everyone kept staring at you all night long. How would you feel?

I'll ask again.. how would you feel?

you 'forgot' my question...

a simple "it wouldn't affect me one bit", or, "damn I really hope this doesn't happen to me", or "that would be pretty hard to swallow if that happened to me"..

you can insert your own answer..

for you reference you can look at the topic again so you can internalize the moment..

scratchlive.net

please.. don't digress with more reasons and theories, just answer the question... that's all,

just get to answering the question..

Yes. Cause SUV's have a tendency to flip if you're not a good drive. So, the whole car thing is a comparison of how not all drivers are the same, therefore insurance rates have different rates. Also applies to the kinds of cars they have.

How does that apply to this topic? Well, you gotta have some kind of experience to know what you're doing. Don't be a microwave DJ and call yourself a real DJ, because skills you don't have. Sure, you're still entitled to called yourself a DJ though, not just an experienced one. You're a 'microwave' dj.

So, much like a driver must earn the right to drive a sports car to reach its full potential so must a "microwave" DJ.

... and yes, you could drive a sports car even without experience, but never in a race. You would lose against those who have experience and have earned the right to drive such car.

Well put...

LOLOL this was very funny. and good.. alot of good analogies, especially Clicks.

tanxu!

ok now, here's tha big twist.

what if your station wagon still has wood paneling?
or what if your kid ghost ridez his big wheel?

wat it do ....anal-ogies.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL aw man, i think im going to hook my printer up because i need to have this a year from now.

i caught that "anal" dash ogies.... LOL

freaks!

of da industry

@ least..

get this thread..

to..

400..

Ima start calling software beatmatchers Milli Vanilli DJs...

Cause Milli Vannili tried to use the same "as long as you entertain the crowd, that's all that matters" argument...

So, Milli Vannili DJs it is..

(has a better resonance than microwave DJ)

ssl-wiki.help.bootlegs.de <-click. Click, feel free to add your definition of a Milli Vanilli DJ.

what is a john henry.. is he that cowboy movie dude?

1870-72? damn u must be old!!

That's a good one.

I'm thinking about condensing this whole thread and putting it up on my website.

... dont forget to add it to the wiki please :)

priceless!

I don't understand why this keeps coming up time after time after time...

All I ask is that you consider what the following items are:

Serato Scratch Live
Stanton Final Scratch
Technics 1200 Turntables
Denon 3500 CD player
Xone:3D Mixer
Mackie d2 Mixer
any Midi device
Effects
Music
PCDJ
MP3 Tunes V2
These are all tools. Nothing else but tools. Owning tools do not make you a DJ. They can provide a means for you to learn the skills of a DJ.

A DJ's skills are 10% technical - how to spin a record, place the needle, scratching, beatmatchine, set a cue point, use an effects unit, midi, and the like. Everything you do that's technical falls into this 10%.

The remaining 90% of the skills it takes to be a DJ fall into being able to read a crowd/dance floor and respond appropriately. How to pick good music, business management, salesmanship, marketing, etc. This is what moves you from a kid in a bedroom to working in a club or as a mobile DJ operator.

But as a DJ there are a wide variety of different types. There are club DJ's in a number of different genre's, mobile jocks, radio rocks, and more. Mobile jocks sometimes specialize in certain types of events as well, weddings, school dances, sweet 16's, mitzvah's, and the like.

Each of these different types of DJ's and even events call for different skillsets. If you started using turntablism at a wedding event you'll likely get poor reviews. And if you did a lot of MC work at a EDM club you'll get run out of the club. Some events require beatmatching, some scratching, etc. You don't have to be able to do every type of event to be a good DJ. You don't have to use a specific 'tool' to be a good DJ either. I've seen very highly paid DJ's that couldn't beatmatch their way out of a paper bag and had no idea how to scratch and some don't have any vinyl at all. They fade from song to song or 'slam-mix'. It works for the events they do, but the 90% of the equation above they are very good at. They sell themselves, make the customer comfortable, play the proper music, and the remaining 10% they do well enough to please the client and likely much more. Put these same DJ's in a club and they may not be able to pull off a decent night just as a club DJ likely wouldn't be able to do a wedding worth a crap.

Stop saying that if you don't own <insert tool here> or can't <insert skill here> you aren't a DJ. There are extremely gifted people that rise to the top in a short period of time (think Mozart) and some that never rise to the top. You could be a genius on the turntables and never make it out of the bedroom (ever hear of unrewarded genius? It's almost a cliche).

I've stopped worrying about what other DJ's are doing. I work to be the best I can and only point to others when I need to point out illegal activities (MP3's coming off P2P networks), unethical behaviour (ditching a wedding for a higher paying gig), and the like. There are DJ's out there better than me but I read books on DJ'ing, business, music, and more to make myself a better DJ for every event that I do. When I prepare for an event I research the clients, their musical requests, and work to put on the best event possible. Every event I do makes me a better DJ.

Very nice musicmeister.

MusicMeister busting out his low S/N ratio again. ;)

They still make Big Wheels?

Good point here....However...I do agree with Preem....and yes....he does dj at jams....seen him 3 times up here in Toronto....
Another thing....I just bought SSL last month....very usefull...and I do own about 5000 recs...and alot of my vinyl I convert to my SSL....and these are only available on vinyl. Thats the key...getting those remixes...accapellas...instrumentals...rare releases....and bonus tracks that were only made on wax.....

And Im Audi 5000

Zee
BBoy 4 Life

Premo is definatly on the mark, see now adays people tend to down play a culture (hipHop) and feel that they might know everything about it within the 1st year of living it or incountering the different elements. What alot of these new school kids have to understand is that hiphop is an art form that has evolved into a Giant culture and like all cultures and arts people who are new to it have to study it inorder to fully apreciate the art form. I'm a dj my self and I have well over 5000 chunes aleast (vinly and not jus hiphop) but I also embrace the new technology. Premo I feel means that in order for a person to fully understand something he/she must embody it , go throuh the motions. Example if you want to learn a martial art you have to start at the bottom an work ur way up paying ur dues etc, when you reach a curtain level of understanding then you see more clear. Noo we are saying for you guys to buy 5000 records to get respect but having at least a good collection of vinly is a good start. Must of you new school kids probabbly use the term at one time or another "diggin In The Crates" but seems like the only crate you'll know is a virtually crate on ur laptop. Bottom line if you respect/love the art, learn and aprciate it.
Also you new school kids need to go out and buy some records you guys/gals stay home to much and download play video games and don't even know how to associate with people yet alone dj infront of over 100 peeps. Do yourself a favor and go to a record store and apreciate the art of digging. Then you will truly take the SSl to a whole new level of understanding.

Peace

I think applicable to this debate is the fact, or almost fact (lol) that 'digging' makes you choose records that suit your creative identity.

You play with your personal creative DJ identity when choosing tracs of personal taste. When you copy hard drive you loose your own twist on your pay list.

Remember the old days when one would suddenly inquire where the DJ got that track..

damn click, you got the 420th post! you lucky guy you!

Anyone ever play the Legend of Zelda?

You start out with a crappy ass sword, you gotta pay your dues chopping all the Oktoroks and Leevers tons of times because your sword isn't that powerful. Eventually though you get good enough with your sword and beat all the bad guys and get the rings that make your sword more powerful.

But if you don't pay your dues and learn the ropes with that crappy sword you'll never earn the power of the rings. Sure, you could put in a cheat code and get the blue ring right away, but you'd miss out on all the experience leading up to earning that blue ring. You'd never fully appreciate the power that the blue ring gave you.

Look at Serato as the blue ring, that's all Primo is saying.

I think part of the interpretation of Primo's words in this thread is some DJs look at spinning as a means to making $$$, always working for the next "gig," Be it a club, wedding, picnic (ie. Mobile DJs). They're in it to provide entertainment and make a dollar. Nothing wrong with that, props to them as they probably make a lot more of spinning than I do.

Then some DJs are in it for the art. Always seeking out the smoothest blend, the best scratch, the rarest records. They may spin a certain type of music for the most part, and often to a certain crowd (house DJs, hip hop DJs, mash up DJs, etc.). These DJs tend to see spinning more as an artform and most look at themselves as musicians of some sort, which I'd argue that they are.

I think its the latter that Primo is speaking to here. And for those DJs he's absolutely correct.

tagg

new Zelda comes out soon!!

who's the man!

(rhetorical question :D)

Every since the internet, you can learn so much from internet boards..

This pretty much sums a lot up..

I'm just amazed that, almost 7 months later, this thread remains fresh and relevant.

You can never take a quote in print at face value, because unless you were there for the interview, you never really know what the person who was quoted was relly trying to get across.

I would guess that by paying dues, Primo really speaks to having an appreciation/respect for DJing. And I agree with that. He's a hip-hop purist and I'm a fan of his production and DJ style, and I respect his many contributions to music over time. (I got tapes of Premier on the WBLS Thunderstorm from the early 90's - he's the truth.)

I've been spinning since the mid 80's, so for me to have over 10,000 records kinda goes with the territory. A new SSL user may never buy enough 12-inch's to fill even one milkcrate with, and that's fine. Hell, it's a new day, and the technology is here - use it, dammit! But I would hope that whatever drives that new DJ to SSL stems from a real appreciation/respect for what DJ's do. Because as it's been stated already here, Serato or not, a real DJ's worth eventually comes out in the rinse cycle.

DJ'ing is an art. If I didn't already live it myself, this forum speaks volumes. **You won't find many online forums about department store customer serivce - and believe me, I've been looking. ;)** I happen to think it's okay to carry a little swagger about what it is we do as DJ's, especially if you've collected for years, traveled domestically or internationally, and so forth. So like Primo, it pains me a little when a Johnny-come-lately comes along and tries to (in a sense) pimp the game I have so much love for. Not hating, because I get my gigs, I have my client base, and it's all good. And sooner or later, clients who have been bunred enough by the wanna-be's find their way back to the real-deal DJ's anyway.

Oh yeah, I'm not sure how you achieve the label Microwave DJ, but if you don't possess the skills to quickly bail yourself out in the midst of a laptop malfunction in front of a packed dancefloor...then you may very well be the type that goes 'from freezer to table in 90 seconds.'

I love that post...good points, and good to see some Zelda fans here. :)

i had the the special gold edition of legend of zelda for nintendo...god damn, im fiending to play that right now. fuck. what about zelda for super nintendo? that shit was ill as fuck to, using those silver arrows to get gannon. damn. man i feel so good thinking about zelda, the og nintendo one.

Weren't all the LoZ carts for Nintendo gold? Anyway, Link to the Past (the SNES one) was friggin' amazing.

I got post 430 as well... lol

yeah but 430 is nothing compared to 420.
i dunno, but link to past was sick. going through both worlds, all that shit

Mmmm, 4:20. >:)

I'm going through the Game Boy Advance one, The Minish Cap....pretty cool, it has that "dual-world" thing going on in a different way. You shrink yourself so you can go through tiny openings in walls, etc.

Anyway, what about Premier again? ;)

this is the biggest thead on the forum. i believe to me said yoda.

Naah, not even close: scratchlive.net

;)

oops lol

wasn't the 1.5 announcement like over a thousand? i can't seem to find it anymore

Who cares. This one actually IS a good thread.

IMHO paying your dues is learning your craft, thats the hours of practice it takes to learn to beathmatch and scratch etc... thats the experience you need to rock a club properly by reading a crowd learning how to build aset properly.

I don't think any of that diminshes with SSL even if you start out with it.

Bad DJ's are Bad DJ's regardless of using SSL or Vinyl, good DJ's the same.

I fully agree Monk-A. Paying dues could be done in several different ways.

I think what Premier was trying to say is that things are coming too easy for the new DJs today, and when it's all so easy what you end up with is lazy DJs. Being a good DJ isn't about having all the latest cuts, nor is it about having all the classics that made DJ so-and-so famous. Being a good DJ is knowing your music and understanding what that song does to your audience.

Lemme ask you this: Do you think that a "microwave" DJ is going to dig and dig for the rarest most obscure mp3s? nah, probably not. He's gonna get on napster or kazaa and download away. He might buy a new release CD or two and rip it to his hard drive...

...but he'll likely never do anything to take the artform to the next level.

Y'kno, beatmatching is really pretty easy to do...and with some practice so is scratching. We've all heard hundreds of DJ do it, and we've probably forgotten most of their names. How many different people scratch with "Ahhh, Fresh!" (some maybe almost exclusively).

Now, how many DJs do you know of who does what DJ Shadow does?

The people who came up with SSL, they didn't do it to make life easier...they did it to make life better. They did it to ease the burden that those of us who own over 2000 records and have had to carry loads of equipment face. And then they took the possibilties that this new format offers, and present it to us in a way that will help us to elevate our artform.

If I wanted to hear someone mix one hot new track into the next hot new track, i'd just turn on the radio. That's not what I want. I want to hear that funk like it used to sound, the way they don't make it sound anymore...and for that, I'll listen to Premier. why? Because he'll go and dig, and dig, and dig some more...and then he'll put something together using snippets and samples of records from the 60s and 70s and beyond...

...and he'll bring that funk i wanted to hear.

He can do that because he's spent a lifetime getting to know and understand music. I'm working to do the same, and SSL just makes it easier for me to bring it to wherever you happen to be at.

I graduated, thanks for the medal.

Great words sinjintek. Definitely feelin' what you're saying.

double bump

traaple bump paw..

Im a bit tired, so I may be speaking before thinking about it... But I dont think the new kids really give a f*ck if we spent 20 years in the game or not... I been DJing since 1985... but i would have quit had serato not come along.. cause i aint carrying 8 crates anymore. LOL

anyway, another thing is we need to stop acting like its us verse them... they are a new breed of DJING.. they dont own a vinyl record... and why should they? i mean for real??? they are DJing to get gigs at clubs... thats all. period.

An Old school vinyl DJ is just different than the new breed... thats it.. but we need to stop blabbin about it ... its like the comedians used to say "why when i was yoru age, we had to walk 15 miles to school with no shoes"... word thats fucked up.. but just tell them once... not bang them over the head about it... cause they really DO NOT GIVE a fuck. LOLOL

what the old school peeps need to do is collab with other old school peoples... I know a few people that were vinyl DJs back in the days.. and thats who you talk to about it while ya drinking some absolute and cranberry listening to the club DJs bad quality mp3.

cool herc always talking about we need to pay him a royalty for everytime we scratch... come on man..

sometimes the new breed admires us for what we did and contributed, but when we keep talkin about it over and over, they lose that admiration quickly... we set it up so its us verse them...

(well not me personally because im modest. LOLOLOLOLOLOL)

P.S. people done interpreted Premier so much and in so many different ways.. like hes the bible or something... Im startin not to like him just on what ya'll say. LOL My brain needs a blue screen physical memory dump so I can start fresh. lol erase the bad data. LOL

no haten on me my homies.. : ) Just voicen my opinion that i really think is true (in some degree).

damn man - i didnt know i wrote so much... its a novel. im goin to bed. LOL

DJKasper_YNY, I understand what you mean even if I don't fully agree with everything you said. I do agree with some of it, of course. New cats may not care about us and what we did, but they should care about what we're still doing because we're still in the game, we're better than them, and that's a fact. We're they're competition so they should care and bar up their skills.

I will NEVER quit this dj thing... even if I dj in the comfort of my home for the rest of my life. I keep reading or listening cats say how they would have quit if it wasn't for Serato. That's just sad. This love I got for DJ'ing and the art is deep. It doesn't mean I'm going to be pursuing radio, clubs or whatever until i can't anymore. It just means that whatever I do, I put my entire dedication to it.

That's it. Dedication. New cats lack that and if they don't care that's actually great! In the end, they'll give up like many do and sell their expensive ass equipment to cats like us who'd be glad to give them half of what they paid for it.

Premier is not the bible. I quoted him to start a discussion and it has been a great one. If you're hating him because of his opinion, you're not any better than those who truly hate on new cats.

There really isn't a right or wrong answer to all this. It's what you feel inside that counts. But, dedication, skills and all of that will definitely win over any cat who's in this dj game for the wrong reasons.

i'm going to publish this whole thread with Random House! lemme see ifi can get Primo to actually read this thread; he still has connects here in houston...

yo i believe it was grand wizard theodore who said that, kool herc didn't scratch...

haha, you really must be sleepy!

Totally agree with that



That dosen't diminish his knowledge as a DJ though, thats more an ethical point.

Sixx - Good words man... Real quick let me claer up the premier thing since it looks like i was haten on him... Nah, Premier is the man... I was definately just joking about that part. I wrote LOL and bluescreen crash etc... maybe just funny to me. LOL : )

LOLOLOL yeah sinjitek!!!! Thanks for catchin that! I todl you i was tired! for real! Even when i wrote it i was like, nah, not cool herc.. but then i was like, yeah herc. LOLOL (hercs on my mind subliminally recemntly cause i was trying to find him on myspace but couldnt)

sixxxx (again) LOL... Nah I would never have give up... (i meant giggin). I always have had my shit set up in my bedroom which always pissed off any and all of my girlfriends. LOL Ive always been recording artists etc and engineering etc.. Cubase SX! but yeah 8 crates was gettin hard to lug around... I was probably out of shape but i remember when i was younger carrying 2 crates at a time for 2 blocsk... but in recent years i been carrying only 1 at a time liek fuck that i aint messing my back up. LOLOL thats really what i was meaning to get across.

I just thought of something.. its not just premier that gets misunderstood..
look how easily even little old me got misunderstood..

: )

Wait.... 2 crates for 2 blocks? Get a dolly man! Or buy a car. :)

Or, have one of those ex's help you out. lol

btw, i just saw Premier on a Youtube at MDX's myspace www.myspace.com & i just realized he has his ttables/mixer configured the same way i do.... so i'm not a freak after all :)

we used to call that brooklyn style, its my preferred setup also...

Dang, we used to call that Jersey style. I used to roll that way (but flip side). I got heat for doing it too.

yo thunda, why the switch? (actully, i need to start practicing in standard format....clubs ain't easy to reconfigure)

Precisely for that reason. No club I worked was ever set up so I could move TT's around. That, and doing spots on other folks' set-ups. My right hand is still my dominant fader hand but vinyl manipulation I do almost equally well with either hand. My left hand just can't click that fader for shit.

Glad you guys enjoyed that vid.

Feel free to send an add if you also have an account ;-)

LOL - the parking lot was two blocks away - south beach (miami).. police wouldnt let anyone pull over to unload.

kazaa is for pirates. and will be banned. i can help. thanks

big booty pirates!!

for tha new kats, whacha think?

Watchwww.youtube.com

Ahh, the memories...

crazy old bump!

hahahahhaha only if Itch was around back then

necro-bump

.www.refinedhype.com

.data.whicdn.com

I spend weeks, if not months to prepare and 'CULL' selections for mixes and gigs using any format - Serato, CDJ, vinyl. I usually have a couple of hundred tunes from the past few months that I thought were worth selecting.. then I'll find another two to three hundred tunes from the past year, years or decades. Then I keep culling and culling until there's no more than around 100-200 tracks (for a 1-2 hour set). Last set I played I averaged 44 tunes in 50 minutes so I need to have at least 100-200 just in case and for a bit of leeway/options. I don't preselect - focusing more on brackets of blends in practice to try out as many options as possible to aim to find the hottest blends. I also then decide which tunes I think work best specifically at the start, middle and end of the set of tunes I want to play (not all of them sorted this way, just the ones that seem in my mind to be better suited to a spot in the building/ramping climax(es) of a set). Then at least every day or two for a week before the set, playing every single tune at least for the parts you want to blend in them (if not the whole tune, to make sure nothing unexpected or something you missed that you need to know about like vocal placements and such to not double vocal clash, or a weird/clashy key change or something). The only premade loop I use is for the first 32 bars (I generally try not to loop unless it's for a creative reason or way to deal with odd part structures/varying bars per measure or phrase etc) and this is just for being able to double drop easier, beatmatching the tunes and not having to drop the needle back (in case the point required for double dropping is coming up soon in the up-fadered track, saves time and makes less likely to miss the cue/drop point). I use a couple of cue points for intro, first and second drops (if that, usually just one where I want to start the track in that particular mix - sometimes an 'end' cue in case something I don't want to happen in my set, happens later in a track..). I personally believe CDJs 'sound' better and are less hassle (if working) for gigs but look crap to see someone 'playing' imo (ESPECIALLY WITH FREAKING USB STICKS + CABLE CONNECTION). Vinyl is great but I most of the music I play in my chosen genres is not available in vinyl, so flac is the next best thing (and not only cheaper to buy, considering postage to my side of the world - but also due to my location, most vinyl I get from overseas is damaged by the time it gets here unless the seller does a real good job of packing it - even then, the postal workers can have their way randomly). I only like CDJs sound more due to less lineage (extra RCA input/output and cable from Serato to mixer that can screw up) and (what I presume to be depending on the type of CDJ) better hardware dedicated for CD data extraction and digital pitch algorithms (especially in the fields of maintaining gain structure outside of 0% and quality of the sound of pitched tunes) than Serato. But I can't be certain how they really line up quality wise. Regardless, the potential to play vinyl and digital files back to back seamlessly (pushing a single button the SL3 or having two sets of cables connected with SL1) on a turntable interface is my preferred method of dj performance. Another thing is scratching - I only ever tried to scratch much on a particular CDJ I found had a nice platter and 'vinyl mode' - American Audio Pro Scratch 2, but mostly I hate the damn tiny platters and this is another reason that if you want to scratch digital files, Serato is the better option. Anyway my 2c. When did Premo start using Serato? I just bought his Serato Control Vinyl xD xD

Holy flashbacks, Batman!

paragraphs dude


p
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Oh no not him again

Heee's bacccckkkkk!!!! lol.

Give me some years and I'll get back to you again xD

I mean.. I did just buy the Premo CV the other week, half a year late and all too haha.. how do you earn vinyl then? Years carrying around cases of Edison Cylinders or 8 tracks? Just sayin'...

Those emails with 'you have a new post' are annoying in how they dont tell you what it says. So I don't click them, I wait years until a google brings something up during my research haha.

I'm kind of glad I'm busy so unable to be a no 1 poster on a bunch of boards like I used to, or at least extensively hang out and stuff.. it's good to not be in the same forum too long I think. Better every few years for a post or two xP

6 more months for a decade long discussion, that's the shiz imo. I love seeing late 90's and early 00's computer advice alongside current stuff, it's amazing to see the rapid progression. Ten years is nothing in the scheme of things.. better to let the info pile up rather than go stale

ninjagaijin did you forget to take your meds today?

lol

Don't have any unless you count immunosuppressants and gut medication.

Again I reiterate, I see people bug all the time when I 'rezzurekt a ded thred bro' but to me it's just funny that people can't handle a discussion lasting more than a few months. I mostly just find stuff through google searches and I like to update old threads with more recent info. It helps me at least.

And pointless thread jacking / laughing posts are just a waste of time and reply, if you don't have anything to contribute I'd say don't bother posting..

And of course these are the reasons it takes me 1.5 years to bother seeing replies to my posts, because I know that 99% of the time they are going to be stupid whinges about a lack of brevity or 'reviving threads from like, 10 years ago!'.. do you think it will be a faux pas in 90 years if the internet is still around to revive 100 year old threads?

It's getting to the point where I'm probably going to do it more just because people have such reactions. Oh no, having to think about something.. well, I'd rather think about something every 1.5 years on a forum rather than spend my life on it every day, thinking about nothing but 'lol'

P.S. do you think DJ Premier had to 'earn' his Serato Control Vinyl pressing?? I don't think so, more of a cash money kinda thing lol. I love how the vinyl music on it sounded like shit because of the need for a picture disc pressing...

Time to reevaluate, now that AI is powerful enough...