a late 2011 17" mbp, that is...

I use multilple programs Serato,ME,Modul8,Ableton and I have two macbookbook pros late 2011 with an 512 ssd and optibay 1 terabyte and they both run flawless. I couldn't imagine going to a 15 inch after having the extra screen space especially helpful when running multiple programs. It sucks apple only offers the 15inch models now I would probably buy a refurbished late 2011 throw an ssd in it and optibay for all your music and videos

Thanks Marine
But yeah, this thread is about if the 512mb is sufficient,
or if I would need to go with 1GB graphics ram?

I know about the pros of 17" machines, in addition to my 17" mbp I also have 2 dell 17" mobile workstations. However for djing I'm gonna get a 15", If I ever need a 17" I could always bring my other mbp. Even though I prefer it staying at home due to my daily graphics work.

For gigs, I wanna travel as light as possible, when bringing mixer, midi, cables, vinyl etc,
weight quickly adds up... not to mention crowded booths...

Looking at it from purely a video DJing point of view, the extra video ram will be more beneficial to you than 16gb of system memory. I never get close to using all 8gb of my ram.

And as system memory can be added later, but you're stuck with whatever GPU you get, personally I'd go with the 1gb card if you can.

Thanks Bob!

No worries.

Serato always recommend at least a 1gb GPU whenever people ask about specs in the help area these days.

Ah, that´s the stuff I´m looking for....
Thanks again.

Looks great to me. You should be fine with 512 for video mixing and after those upgrades, that will be a very solid computer for years to come.

Thanks Code:E, now were getting somewhere.

I´d really like to know what the rest of you lot think.
Heyy!! nik39, tomatoslice, Millz, Joshua Carl, Eloy where you at?
Please weigh in guys? Thanks a million,
Warp...

Though I wont discount phatbob's commets, his suggestion of a 1 gb video card is great.

Yeah I know, just want some other opinions from the rest of "the pack" here.
I mean, how far can a 512mb system be pushed in terms of resolution, bytes pr second etc....?
As long as the hard drive is relatively fast, Im not sure I need all of that Video Ram, at least not yet?

you should be able to push it far but not maxed out. Harddrive will play some roll but not all. The question to ask yourself is what type of output are you doing? if your lucky enough to work at a club or venues with proper HMDI matrix's sending HD video to all projectors and TV in the said venue, you may want the option to send a HD single to said matrix. If its VGA know that 480i (i think its effectively 480i or maybe P either way NOT HD) is the max you going to be able to send, and if its composite, well anything you can output will be amazing. So I have VGA in the club i work at, i run ME at 60% of max quality and only run the output at 1024x768. Anything better make no discernible difference on what you can see on the tv. Also note that i dont know any video pools send out all HD video contant, so sending an HD signal really makes no sense when your content is not HD.

VGA supports resolutions higher than 1080 HD

You're sending better than 480i:




but higher resolution output will make your effects, transitions, and text scrolling much crisper

So DisGrace, would I need the 1GB model to output HD? or would the 512mb model suffice?

BTW, Im NOT looking to do regular video, but use my OWN visuals.
I produce all my content in 1080 25p, will mostly likely use projectors for the most part,
not so much video screens...

Even Intel onboard cards can output HD resolution.... I've just corrected Code:E on the capabilities of VGA a couple times already, and don't like seeing misinformation being presented as fact.

I would say if all your content is 1080, then the more GPU RAM, the better. As phatbob said, that's the one thing you won't be able to upgrade in the future. The output format you choose is up to you and the video installation at the venue. HDMI, VGA, and component would all work fine.

I have a 2008 MBP with 256GB GPU. No problems at all playing SD content on ME or VSL. I haven't really tried HD, but I assume the memory usage is exponential. So again, probably the 1GB model is your best bet.

Let's wait to hear from some users that do play HD content....

me personally would not buy a new one and just use the 17" for graphics and dj'ing. using it to dj with won't hurt the laptop. i do the same thing. i have the late 2011 17" and i use it for music production, video editing, motion graphics, viz fx, watching porn and dj'ing.

with the 512mb video card you can do 50-60 fps with sd and hd content, it will just take more oomph to do do it. and because it will take more oomph, there might not be enough oomph for other applications. for example trying to run resolume, ME and scratch live will work with the 512mb, but the computer will be struggling to keep up. (i had a late 2009 with a 512mb video card).

with a 1GB video card you will be future proofed as it can run more graphic intensive applications at the same damn time will having resources to give. this makes your video run smoother and laptop run cooler. serato will also be 'snappier'.

my late 2011 17" is a beast with sd and hd content. i get constant 55-60 fps even if i have ssl, ME, resolume and madmapper going.

Yeah I guess it basically is, a HD image is about 4 times as many pixels.
As I said in my first post, I do have an 17" mbp, 1GB video ram, 512GB SSD, that runs ME quite nicely. Been testing it with HD. However, It would be interesting to monitor the actual usage of the video ram while ME is running. Is there some kind of special app to do it? Activity Monitor will only meassure regular ram usage...

Well, Ive had my share of accidents, once a guest managed to push over the whole dj booth from the stage I was playing, 2 laptops, 2 technics and 2 cdjs all hit the floor, only the mixer was hanging on by the cables. Also, I dj some quite extreme conditions at winter time, ski & snowboard competitions, sometimes in real bad weather conditions too.

My 17" has an SSD 512 main drive, this is almost always filled to about 60-85%, as I normally have my current motion graphics/video project(s) loaded into the main drive. Makes my life a lot easier when I need to visit clients. I don´t like to depend on externals for anything but backups and larger project files at my office. I´m over bringing externals to gigs as well...
Gonna keep the super drive on my 17", no optibay hd install there, as I regularly burn cd´s/dvd´s for clients.

Imagine I took the machine for a gig, and I didn´t have time to back up the last 50 gb of motion graphics material produced during the last few days, then a guest pouring a drink over it, or even worse, someone steal it at the club.... If that happened, Id probably be more concerned about the project than the actual machine. I have experienced losing relevant data on project when on a tight deadline, that´s really a nightmare.

And again, I´d prefer djing with a 15" mbp, less bulk.



Yeah, that´s is my main concern. When it comes to a "snappy" serato, Im pretty confident that disk speed and regular ram is more important than the Video Ram though. The regular GUI isn´t really that taxing on the system.

I know I really want the 1GB VRam model, just need to justify the extra cost...

you just justified the extra cost. you want it.

I render out all edits in 720p(when my source is hd) both my mbp's handle it flawlessly(late 2009 late 2010 both with a 512 vid card and only 4 gigs of ram)

I more than ok with being corrected. I could be wrong, but i was under the impression that the TV and projectors we use can only support those lower resolutions over VGA. I fully admit my mis communication in pervious posts. But nothing i wrote was ment to screw with anyone or to intentionally mis inform them.

@ Code:E
Yeah, I believe you you are wrong about the VGA res.
Seem to remember that Ive put out 1080p on both TVs and projectors (no club setting, but client meetings) over VGA in the past, using the regular mini/thunderbolt output with a standard Apple VGA adaptor. (not to mention regular computer monitors...)

@ Dj Nyce
LOL, thats no real justification though. I mean, like The Stones said: "You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes, well you might find, You get what you need." Watchwww.youtube.com

@ djnak
Have you done any testing with 1080p material?
I would be interested to hear how that would work out on your machine.

Again, thanks for your replies everyone!
Anyone else with an opinion/experience, please join in and share your thoughts!!

Cheers, Warp.

Right, here goes... ;-)

I have the lowest end early-2011 13" Pro. It only has the integrated Intel 3000 graphics, although with 8gb of system ram that uses up to 512mb for graphics (still shared though).

Believe it or not, it runs SV and ME with aplomb.

I can run SD content at high quality settings, works a treat.

I don't have a lot of HD content but it seems ok with that too, although my output pipeline is only ever SD.

However...

If I run the Bridge with the Ableton panel opens, it struggles.

If I run a QC video overlay at the same time as FX in ME, it struggles.

If I try to Syphon into Resolume, it struggles.

If I plug in my Microsoft HD web cam and use that in ME, it struggles. Same goes for the built in FaceTime HD camera.

When I say it struggles, I'm not talking about the CPU; that's never pushed. Nor the system ram; that's never close to maxed out.

What's struggling is the graphics.

I don't know about Euros, but for me the difference between the 512 MBP and the 1gb would be £300.

And when I buy my next machine, I WILL pay that extra money. Even if it means waiting another month or something. Because modern Apple machines are all plenty capable in every way, but for pushing the limits of what can be done with video, the GPU is the key.

Thanks Bob appreciate your elaboration!

Seems about right, was thinking about getting a SSD for that money...

I guess I'm gonna have to save up some more, better future proofed, than sorry..

If you're only wanting an SSD as a boot drive, 128gb can be had for well under €100 now, I think... Soooooo cheap!

A 128 is useless IMO, gonna fit a 512, use that for system and music,
then add either another drive in the optibay. Either a 7200 rpm, or ideally
another 512 SSD for the visuals/videos (once I can afford it...)

Ive gotten used to the 512 SSD in my 17" mbp,
and once used to it, you don't really wanna go back...

Fair enough, if you want music on it too.

I've got 7200rpm spinning drives in both drive bays, and that's working well enough for now... Until those 512 SSDs get down under £200 next year. ;-)

i have the 512 ssd but i only use it for os, apps, other. i have a 1tb samsung spointpoint in the optical drive bay all music and some video goes there. the rest of videos are on an external.

i would recommend not to keep music and/or videos on the ssd. but thats just me.

I have not done any testing with 1080p...in reality here really is not much difference between a PROPERLY rendered 640 x 360 sd vid form say Smash and a 720P video in a club enviroment, so I have yet to see a need to test 1080p

Good Point NAK
Reason for asking is I recently did visuals on 1080p Apple ProRes 422 for a fashion show.
I "only" made the content, did not do the actual projection.
However, I believe everything was executed from mbp's - farm9.staticflickr.com - farm9.staticflickr.com

The complete video file over here > Watchvimeo.com

Shameless plug, I know, couldn't help myself ;D
LOL

Nyce,



My 750HD is getting full so I'm thinking about adding a ssd, Can you explain why?

The read and write speeds of an ssd are
Overkill for videos.

Thats up for discussion IMO. The main bottleneck for laptops these days are data i/o. The 4x speed of an ssd dramaticly speeds up audio/video conversion, library loading, backups, any disk Work really. I especially like The way My external fw g-Tech works with The ssd. Never imagined they could perform at this level. In general, ssd's makes life less about waiting, more about getting stuff done. As I said, once youre used to ssd's, you really dont wanna go back.

Sorry about all The Capital letters, iPad auto correct Crap.

I love my ssd for bootup, mp4 rendering, etc.
But for video djing, it's overkill, it works, but the only 1 thing I know having an ssd for videos will help out with is analyzing videos in ssl, finding keys in MIK etc.
Way way faster than rotational hard drive, but performance while playing videos is not that big between the two.

This, my main backup music archive is about 9TB and growing, mostly apple lossles.
On a weekly basis, something between 5 and 50GB is going into my SSL library. Used to down-convert to 320k, but mostly keeping ALAC for SSL these days. As you said, MIK and SSL analyzing, along with the actual copying of files is a lot quicker. For some reason, (not really sure why, not that much of a computer geek) copying from and to my externals are a lot quicker than using a regular drive. I would think that external drive was the bottleneck, but no.

I hear you, and don't doubt it at all. Still think the other benefits is reason enough for going SSD, at least for me. Also, battery life is better when using SSD..

Did tonight's gig with my 17" as I don't really trust my 15" that much these days. "Regular" 2 deck audio only set. Definitively decided on staying on a 15" machine for future dj use. That thing on a crane stand is quite intrusive on stage. Had to run my music of an external (lacie rugged) as its loaded witch graphics projects. Not a fan of bringing externals to gigs. Just one more thing that potentially could cause problems if disconnected by accident.

"Animated" girl brought 3 pouffes on stage, you know, these kinds of things > www.ikea.com , started dancing on top of them, fell down pusing the booth. needle jumped to end of song. I told her politely: "look, reason there is only silence, and no music is, YOU. Please get off the stage and I will resume the music" she went of stage, I recued to where the track was, crowd clapping. She stayed on the dancefloor for the rest of the night, LOL. Talked to the bar manager at the end, she newer order any alcohol, only water, must have been doing some illegal substance. It still a great night from my point of view though, great crowd.

Would be nice if serato fixed the choppy waveforms on Lion. Does Snow Lion have the same issue? No dealbreaker, but kind of annoying... I know, I know, never ride the color waves, use your ears..

crane stand ftw!

also aren't you using relative mode with needle drop to cues/position disabled?

anyways i don't get choppy waveforms on snow lion. what is your audio cache set to?

Yep, the crane is nice.
Using relative with absolute drop on, that's the way I prefer to spin I guess.
Audio cache is maxed out, latency around 3 or 5 i think, AMD Radeon 1GB graphics card.

if you disable needle drop, serato will never skip.

try setting your audio cache to 30 or 45 secs and max screen updates to 60.

i think i have the same mac as you too. serato 2.4.3 beta is working like a charm on it.

Yeah, used to play without the needle drop a few years back. Seem to remember it wasn't an option back then? Anyway, I really like the needle drop feature, and I actually don't mind it skipped last night. It actually helped the situation IMO, the girl brought several others on stage, and it felt a little unsafe after a while. So when she bumped the needle it was easy to ask them to return to the floor.
But great tip Nyce, been using int mode whenever situation is getting "rough", but rel without needle drop is a lot more useful than int IMO.

Will try to change the cache, believe the screen update is at 60. Thanks!

Running 2.4.2 for gigs, testing 2.4.3 pb2 at home, seems pretty solid, yeah.