Yea...i've read about that. I was gonna post a thread about it, but decided it wasn't worth the webspace here. lol

:-)

This is not news... am sure serato (as should all of us) will welcome the competition.

competition?

yea seriously... competition? Have you ever used Final Scratch? There's no competition.

well... SSL is dope, specially when backspinning / beat-juggling / scratching... but it is not stable enough.

mates, we need more stability, some users like me are having problems during gigs.

but i believe that SSL2 will kick FS2 ass...

keep on spinning!

That is the stupidest complaint I've ever heard. If FS2 came out with no hardware upgrade you'd bitch about that. Don't deny it cause you know it's true. If they released FS2 with the same amp you'd be ragging about it. "Can you belive they call it FS2? It's the same amp". And don't kid yourself about SSL2 having upgraded hardware when (and if) it comes out. You know it will. WIll you bitch about that or will it be cool then?

Only problem for you is that SSL2 is waaaaaaaaay off and FS2 is NOW!

*ahem* and you know this how?

Here's a quote from AJ (Serato Director i.e. the horse's mouth)



Apples? Like em?

wow they are still calling it 'ground breaking' ummm IMHO it was ground breaking 2... almost 3 years ago... digital vinyl interfaces (esp serato) are amazing technologies but far from the ground breaking stage, and more in the foundation stage...

what gets to me is stanton cant get away from the stupid hardware shapes... the first one was a disk... this one has an arc'd top... pretty annoying if you wanna put something on top of it...

I also read in one post here (by one of the serato guys) that the system is still lacking in the 'control' aspect.. (ie backspins n such)... all stanton makes is cheap i$h ... all stanton products are ill designed to make them maximum $$$...

dont get me wrong im all for making an honest buck, but geeez what a bunch of scammers

also: I will check it out when its finished, but as far as im concered i'v already got a near perfect digital vinyl system so i have no reason to purchase another one... btw Thanks Rane-Serato and everyone involved in the Sl project you guys are doing a steallar job :)

Cheers BC ^_^ we do appreciate the kind words, and we're trying our best!

i 2nd badcompany's comment, you guys are doing a very good job.

I'm gonna add my two cents.

A good friend of my used FS2 at Plasa and said it was garbo. He said it improved, but its still horrible. The street price is $800! Also he said that the scratch amp is so big that its not really a effective mobile solution. He noticed errors with back cueing (Still), and when slowing down the viynl the indicator hops around. He told me that is could be the equiv of a early alpha model of SSL, even though this is supposed to ship soon.

Well, all I can say is that I waited for Stanton to do something well, and they blew it. I'm placing a order for SSL very soon.

to NI's credit, FS2 is not even shipping yet so it's not fair to compare. you also have to remember every company in every industry tries to play leapfrog with each other. saying "oh *this company* just stole this idea from *that company*" isn't very productive. an idea is just an idea until it's engineered and the implemented; however, imo ssl has both those advantages.

New h/w is cool, BUT not if they dont fix the s/w problems, THIS is the primary concern, before thinking of upgrading the h/w. A lame excuse for the shitty tracking of FS (backcueing etc) was always "oh the h/w this and that", and what now? The h/w has been upgraded, still similar problems.

But after all, you still have to consider, FS2 is a beta version right now, allthough I dont know if that has been said by stanton/ni clear enough.

hopefully this doesnt offend anyone, but i dont really know where the hate for final scratch comes from..... I used it for almost two years and never had a crash..... i recently switched to ssl and I think it is better for the time being and I definetly think the improvements the ssl team is planning on making will make it the hands down winner..... But, final scratch allowed me to play my exclusive tracks and remixes for years before ssl existed..... I also use a ttm56 rane mixer, but it doesnt mean I hate vestax as a company..... final scratch 2.0 probably wont be as good as ssl is now.... i agree, but the bottom line is they are different applications that have different pros and cons to each of them.....if ssl is a better product now (which I think it is), lets use these boards to fix the issues that still exist with it and make it as close to perfect as we can...... or i suppose we could spend a day talking about how much we dont like gemini mixers.....

Personally I would enjoy seeing alot less mention of FS period, but unfortunately DJ's are a vocal bunch, and quite a few feel hard done-by.

I have no idea how many FS users are out there, but surely it must be working ok for most of them...

If you don't need to scratch, backspin, or spin the record slowly that is! ^_^

exactly..... my point is that we all start somewhere and a while back, fs was ahead of its time..... kinda like how the pioneer cdjs did their job and now the numark cdxs will probably make them obsolete.... using fs allowed you some of the same advantages that ssl offers now with a few setbacks (you mentioned the main ones)..... and although its far from a perfect product, it doesnt make it an evil company like some people here want to believe.....

FS1 was rocking when it came out. But the evolution goes on, and stanton could not cope with the evolution as you can see.

Why some people hate FS? If you ever had vesited the old forum you would have known how crappy and bad the support was. Its not existant. They were NOT listening to the customers, they were note helping them, all they got was standard copy and past answers for the customers.

FS _never_ worked as promised. Backspins?? Vinylemulation?? Slow scratches??

Many customers felt they were ripped of by stanton/ni, when the updates came out. They had to pay for an update to V1.1, though V1.0 didnt work for some, and the same was with V1.5, another paid update, for bug fixes etc. And still promised backspin fix, hell, did they ever used a turntable and listened how backspins sound?? How a slowdown sounds??

And now, the update is out, it has been said that the update for existing customers will be definitly more than $250 bucks.

djpety, what exactyl pro das FS have over SSL? Gui, okay, that will be configurable in SSL, and the batch analyzer, that will be implemented in the near future as well. Same with auto-gain and horizontal wave views, and larger wave views. These are the "pros" of FS. But the cons weight way more than those pros, cause for all FS pros I have simple workarounds or these are pros which dont affect the live usability of SSL (except the gui).

Another thing is the shutdown of the official board, hell, that was the only way to get a little support, and they shut it down "cause competitors there were posting about their product" haha. ... on the unofficial board also we have some posts stating this and that and dissing users which were posted anonymously but definitly came from stanton ips.

"engineered and the implemented"... seems to me they have a physical unit... im doubting they are going back to the drawing board anytime soon so IMO (taking into account we are talking about stanton) these are criticisms that stanton should have mastered and taken into account long ago... if they still dont have proper backque on a 'vinyl emulation system' then they have not met consumer goals nor the engineering goals... the fact is stanton is out to make $$$ not to inovate and have fun engineering and creating dj tools... n2ti gave birth to this idea of a digital vinyl system - stanton said hey '$' and monopolized on it... with that said - stanton was FIRST and IMO stanton should have this shit so cold that they could crush any competition with their badass digital vinyl system... $hit they have had a two year head start (this is like a physics graduate student who doesnt know physics COMMAN! - or an artist who cant generate art) as we can all see this is not the case b/c they are still fumbling around doing dumb ass shit to make money... all i can see is a faceless corperation... seriously... you think that the engineers @ stanton enjoy what they are doing?... i doubt it... they are probably contracted engineers who know nothing about deejaying and stanton says 'we want this' and they say 'ok' ... the reason serato/rane SL has been so succesful is b/c the people working on the project enjoy what they are doing and have fun doing it and like deejaying... and that is manifest in every aspect of the project... again stanton is weak </rant>

djpetey, oh another thing, have you recognized how many SSL users are ex FS users? This has a reason!

I think youre missing my point..... noone thinks that fs is as good as ssl.... im assuming thats why we're all here and using ssl..... stanton got beat by rane (which is probably something theyre used to by now)..... serato beat ni..... why do we talk about it like stanton is evil? I, for one, test products before I buy them and was well aware of the limitations of fs when I bought it.... I would hope most of you take the same precautions.... my demo copy didnt backspin and i bought it knowing that..... so can I claim that stanton ripped me off when they claimed it was vinyl emulation? it seems like everyone here is realtively intelligent and can make educated decisions before they buy a product..... what im seeing is a better product released (ssl) and a group of fs users using hidsight to say that stanton was garbage the whole time...... when I was using fs, i was happy I had the advantage I did.... now I use ssl and am happy i have even more advantages..... isnt it that simple?

To put in perspective how much effort has gone into our product, Steve W therorised the exact method we used to operate Scratch Studio Edition, back in *1995*. Yes, almost 10 years ago.

Those same records were used for the initial builds of Scratch LIVE until the amazing noisemap technology with it's great advantages was proposed. Scratch LIVE was already well on the way in terms of initial theory work _years_ before FS debuted at any tradeshow.

After teaming up with AJ, the two spent the intervening time building Serato into a world beating plug-in developer, Pitch 'n Time is used daily on blockbuster movies and platinum selling albums the world over, and is still after 5 years on the market the single best regarded plug-in of it's type, let alone one of the most expensive you can buy for Pro Tools.

We didn't see a demo of FS and say "hey we could do that" we already knew it, and had tested ideas well before then.

That's how we made this the bomb-ass product it is! Time, scientific investigation, and loads of work. No biting necessary.

And on that note, I'd like to lock this thread now.