Or the software needs a zoom feature that fills borders.
I know of one dj software that does this.

Maybe because many of these companies sell to a much broader audience than the few (relative) DJ's that use ME.

Think about all the bars, cruise ships, and other businesses that purchase these videos...all still mastered for DVD distribution in many cases.

MixEmergency does it, but it's not as good as the new border fill in 2.0.

I just don't understand why a video shot in 'super widescreen' needs to have borders on it, just to produce a 640x360 file.

Cause TV's are stupid :)

I think they need to be 640x360 when using the "stretch to fit" output.

I did a 90s night for along time, mostly 4:3 videos and a few widescreen when getting into late 90s. The venue had 16:9 plasmas on VGA connection, and I set the TVs to fill the screen with a 4:3 input. The only resolution I could pick to send to the TV was 4:3, so I would set my output to 4:3 and "stretch to fit". This way, a 16:9 video (with or without borders) would fill the 16:9 display properly. The 4:3 videos would get stretched by the settings native to the plasma.

If that made any sense... a "super widescreen" video without the black bars would get stretched vertically and be really messed up in this case. The borders to keep the video at 640x360 help keep the video A/R looking decent for "most" circumstances.


yes

VJ Justin Allen, what you are saying is true, but the services I'm talking about are delivering in a format for software, VSL/SV or ME, or even VDJ.

I understand that they are creating an mpeg2 for DVD and an mp4 for digital distribution.

Isn't rendering with the bars on just a case of laziness then? Not wanting to optimize their h.264 files for the intended purpose?

For example, I got that free trial of promo only today. Lots of lovely HD videos, but all 720p even if that means black bars. Now, they aren't sending out Blu-Rays, so that file needs to be encoded at least twice. I'm saying why not encode the mp4 properly?

DJ Disgrace...

Surely when you use software, the output remains stable at whatever res you choose? The TVs in my venue don't flip out and change their display when both my decks are blank. Because SV or ME is still outputting a picture.

Thanks for the input btw guys... I thought this is worth discussing.

I'm basing all this on the fact that my personal edits, if I use movie footage, are often 640x320 or something, and I've never known that to cause a problem with any screens when using software.

stable yes, but using VGA I never seem to have a resolution option that is 16:9, so that when I play an actual 16:9 video, it gets stretched and I have black bars above and below. By outputting 4:3 and having the TV stretch it, I get the proper A/R in the final product. Confusing, I know...

phatbob, we can discuss over a pint next week!

There is a thread somewhere where Puma explains it better

Yea, but those services are actually a small part of their overall business, especially for companies like Promo Only. They make much more money delivering to other types of businesses.

True... Not SmashVidz though!

There's a reason I put them first in the thread title... ;o)




Good plan!




Anyone know where that thread resides? I'll do a search obviously but it would be a big timesaver if anyone remembers the thread title or something.

think it's in the IVTC thread... there was an aspect ratio hijack for a few posts

Cheers

With the introduction of border fill in 2.0, you no longer have to worry about a 4:3 file not filling the borders. I think you are asking why ME doesnt have a zoom to fill the borders, well it goes like this, because each video is unique, there is no way to judge how much zoom would be required to fill in a certain file's border. If ME had something like this, there would be troubles because many of the videos would have peoples heads cut off etc etc. TnS was a method we used at SV to fix the border fill issues, BUT now that ME does it automatically there is really no reason for TnS.

What about the Serato Video/VSL users?

;)

Because I have a decent relation with both companies, Im trying to bite my tongue. At this time, there is no such effect on Serato Video...hopefully in the future ;)

Cheers guys...

What I'm really asking Millz is why a 'super-wide' video like Pitbull - Give Me Everything needs to be encoded with black bars on it, just to confirm to the 640x360 standard?

You guys deliver solely for software users, right, so it seems pointless to waste bits on the black bars.

...and I'm not really suggesting just for ME, the black bars seem pointless to me with SV or ME... It's the new feature in ME that's made me notice it more, is all...

oh you are saying black bars on top and bottom? Thats how that video was shipped from the labels. Youre not the only one that thought that was wack. If you start getting into the business of zooming and cropping, things tend to lose quality.

I think he means why not render the final video to 640X240 (for example), instead of 640x360 with 60 pixels of black bars to fill to 360.

Yup, what DJ Disgrace said.

Found the original discussion on this. Brett B recommended to stay at 640x360 due to the stretching that can happen on some TVs/displays. I was re-editing videos to 640x320, or whatever the video worked out to.
serato.com

Nice one.

What Brett B says there seems to come from a sensible perspective, but I'm still not buying it for software-only use cases.

Yea, I think it's more important in cases where TVs are hooked up using composite or S-video, and some weird stretching can happen. Usually with VGA or HDMI you're able to select a proper resolution for the displays (but not always, as in with mixed display types i.e projectors and LCDs)

Hmmm ... good to know Millz. Maybe I sort my library and get rid of duplicates now :)

I can't fully respond to this until I test 2.0, but you want my input so here ya go.

There are three reasons I can tell you off the top of my head.

1.Not that some will care but proper chyron placement is one, consistancy has always been a priority for us (and no the chyron is gonna stay)

2.Maintain proper aspect ratio.

3.360 is a "real" recognized resolution that devices understand (352 is also, but thats a whole other animal). Yes you can render out at another resolution and it will work on ME. As much as I love and use ME, it's not the only software out there. Theres also more software coming that we're not discussing yet and who knows what it will be compatible with. So this area is really delicate.

I can understand the request, but I can also think of other solutions or additional features ME can add to work with this feature such as:

Black bar crop (only displays the active picture)

Only activate the plugin on 4:3 videos (personally this is the only time I would want this feature to run) I'm not a fan of crazy borders, but wouldn't mind it on 4:3 videos.

So at this time, i don't see us fulfilling your request. I will though do some digging and chat with Nick about it also.

Wish I'd not mentioned the ME thing, I seem to have derailed my own topic... ;-)

Thanks for the response Marx, I can see how commercially it makes sense, especially your point about consistency of chyron placement. That hadn't even crossed my mind as an end-user.

All good, and I love ME.....I've been using it for a very long time.

I think some additions to ME can be made to make it work the way your requesting.

I just hate 2 things: black bars, and incorrect aspect ratios.

That's why the SmashVidz TNS videos were such a cool innovation. That's the kind of thinking I like!

I hear ya, TnS was hard for me to drop. Every time I go to the club it seems like the aspect ratio is wrong, so what's the point?

The djs like you that care that much about AR's use a product like ME so most likely your display will be correct. Now you won't have black bars on the sides anymore with the new plugin. BUT if we can get a added feature to only activate the plugin on 4:3 videos or even a spot where you can list off certain resolutions to activate i.e.: 640x480 that would be dope.

We always have something cooking, just now others are catching up to where we were years ago, trust me we're about to sling shot years ahead again. We're only on phase 1.

Cheers Marx, and let's be clear, I'm not really complaining, and certainly not about SV specifically, I just never understood the reason for making files conform to a fixed size for software use, when it means black bars in the file.

Thanks to everyone in the thread who's helping educate me on this!

hehe, well all caps is yelling FYI. haha all good man I never have a problem debating and giving reasoning, trust me 99.9% of the time there is one.

No 'all-caps' from me Marx, look at the thread as it appears on this page...

serato.com

ALL thread titles are in caps on the thread pages themselves... ;o)

shit your right haha, my bad

Yo jack only when you zoom there is a lose of quality, and if you are getting a 1080i/P source file from the labels and then making them 640x360 like SmashVision is then you will not lose any quality.

I'm properly amused that for years every time someone links you directly to a thread you've thought the OP was shouting at you... Haha

Justin PROMO ONLY, MIXMASH are the only ones that make DVD's for bars, cruise ships, and other businesses that was on that list. Also Promo Only also had digital download so they could do that if they want to. Promo only need to get there video game up to par anyway!

I've never noticed, funny though

Thanks Eloy for messing up my quote haha



I've never noticed, funny though

you funny Marx....

FYI Screenplay is on that list as well

Eloy, I got the freebies from Promo Only and I have to say the encoding quality was pretty good. Obviously the problem remains that the audio is the 'video version' on most but they had a couple of Intro edits which were fine.

I still won't be subscribing, mind you...

I know Screenplay was but I was talking about what was on the list.... Marx... LOL

bam haha

My problem with Promo Only is when a video was 16:9 and they make it 4:3 and the audio is wack I am not happy but a lot of the time the labels are like you can't change shit if we gave it to you that way. There are a lot of laws out there that so it's going to take time for the guys to do all this cropping that we want... If any thing I would want 16:9 480P files and not 360P cause 360P I am not a fan of....

What is Screenplay? do you mean VJPro.... LOL just playing with you Marx!

Its a big circle haha, and only growing!

Yo did you say that with the Dr. Evil voice on.... LOL

Its all about the video djs!

@eloy the one thing I've never had a problem with (past 2005) is audio on PO material. The AR is always whack though.

I don't think the black bars should be cropped.
I have a few like that and don't like it, yes in ME 2.0 it just makes double black bars, but I'd rather have videos in the proper A/R than not.

?????

introducing Emergency Mix, a "new" video solution compatible with SSL2.4

I'm sure soon there will be other options to mix video. Traktor is on deck. So we will make sure to keep everything in a standard format.

I'm confident this will be happening soon. (my here say opinion)

Can we please regard that post as off-topic and disregard it, everyone?

Sick of that old' discussion! ;-)

Which one?