Hi msoultan,

Do you still experience this kind of issue when using NoiseMap™ cds?

What do you have your tempo range set to when experiencing this? Does the pitch different shown on the virtual deck correlate correctly to the pitch difference shown on your CDJ?

It does not do this with the CDs - the CDJ works fine on its own - it's only when SSL is controlling the deck, so it seems like these numbers are originating from SSL.

Watchwww.youtube.com

And I apologize for now showing it in the video, but the other ranges also have weird jumps - in other words, they're not consistent with the standard CDJ pitch increments.

And just to add why this is an issue, when I'm trying to do a really long, clean mix, sometimes I'm making minute 0.02% adjustments. Now, let's say I move the slider from 0.59 to 0.61, I really have no way of knowing if I really jumped 0.02, or did it really jump from 0.59 to 0.60 to 0.61 making me think I've actually moved more than 0.02 because of the numbering weirdness?... so I end up moving back to try and get to 0.60 to verify where I came from but end up at 0.59, so now I'm guessing whether I've jumped past 0.60 (because the fader is so sensitive) or was that in-fact not a valid pitch.. and it just wastes time and is somewhat confusing. While it always seems like there's a 0.01 and then 0.02 (never a 0.01 followed by another 0.01), it's hard to be remembering what the last number in the sequence was - it would be *much* more helpful if it was a nice predictable 0.02 (in the case of +/- 6%).

Thanks!
Mike

Right I see, so when comparing the pitch range increments of the CDJ just being used normally with CDs, the increments are different when being used in HID mode.

This is simply the way the HID mode was designed to work with the CDJs in Scratch Live.

The pitch control developed by Pioneer is somewhat different, in the fact that the pitch control curve moves in consistent increments. If you were to look at this visually, increasing the pitch would have steps going up.

The way it is operating with Scratch Live is different in that the visual representation would be a straight line. The maximum and minimum values are set, with a 0 point in the middle, and straight lines are drawn from either end to the middle. This means that the values from point zero to the maximum value would not fall on consistent values or "round numbers" perhaps.

Sorry if this sounds complicated! I can understand this is a different system you are used to when comparing to the CDJs, but I think the percentage increments aren't quite as important as the resulting tempo when beat matching.

So why don't you round the numbers to 0.02 increments? Or, I guess I should ask, is it really moving 0.01, 0.02, 0.02, 0.01, then 0.02? It doesn't really make sense because between 0 and 6% you're only going to have so many increments... unless you're saying that SSL is able to read more precision coming from the pitch slider?



Well, hearing a tempo change of 0.02 doesn't happen instantaneously, yet I can instantly see that I've made a predictable and consistent change by using the CDJ display (when it's not in HID), and that's what's important here. Assuming that the changes are 0.01, 0.02, 0.02, 0.01, that is definitely not consistent and it would be helpful if it went with a fixed value so you could get a feel for how much the pitch is going to change.

Rounding the numbers would be changing the way the current system works. If enough people were unhappy about the way this system is functioning then it may possibly be changed in the future.

I couldn't say that this system is more precise or not, it is just a little bit different. Scratch Live and Pioneer systems both start in the same location, then end up in the same destination, but the path is slight different. As I said Scratch Live is more of a straight line, Pioneer uses "steps."

I can understand that when looking at values it is easier for you to use the Pioneer system if this is what you are familiar with, so the Scratch Live way of doing things may take bit of getting used to.

At the end of the day, you should still be able to match the pitch difference percentage on both CDJs so they can be exactly the same, but I can see how it could run into issues if you are running one in HID move, and the other is using NoiseMap™ or playing a normal CD.

That's the strange thing - when I've asked about changing the use of certain buttons on the CDJ (i.e. using loop buttons as cues instead of loops), the answer has always been that Serato wants to mirror the experience on the CDJs. Now you're saying that you don't? It shouldn't "take a bit of getting used to", *especially* when it comes to things like the feel of the pitch fader! Plus, if you have to hop back and forth between some systems that have HID and some that don't (which I do a lot), it ends up being more of an issue.

That being said, they both are a straight line - the real question is the resolution between the two. I did some testing and for a given distance of pitch fader travel (which I repeatedly measured with consistent results), it looks like Pioneer's pitch configuration has 5 steps going from 0.00 to 0.10 (0.02, 0.04, 0.06, 0.08, 0.10) and SSL has 6 steps (0.02, 0.03, 0.05, 0.06, 0.08, 0.10). From that I've discovered why SSL is seemingly displaying weird numbers.

Real pitch value first, displayed value in parenthesis:
0.000 (rounded to 0.00)
0.016 (rounded to 0.02)
0.032 (rounded to 0.03)
0.048 (rounded to 0.05)
0.064 (rounded to 0.06)
0.080 (rounded to 0.08)
0.096 (rounded to 0.01)
0.112 (rounded to 0.11)
0.128 (rounded to 0.13)
0.144 (rounded to 0.14)
0.160 (rounded to 0.16)
0.176 (rounded to 0.18)
0.192 (rounded to 0.19)
...

I guess the weird part was wondering whether I'm really jumping by 0.01 percent or 0.02 or both, but it's looking like SSL is able to get a 0.016% resolution whereas Pioneer opted for 0.02%.

That said, while the extra resolution would sound ideal on paper, 0.004% is somewhat negligible and it does make pitch adjustments tougher because the fader is more sensitive and it's now it's that much easier to jump 0.032% instead of 0.02%, which is something I definitely noticed and did not like.

That being said, for the sake of feel, Serato has definitely deviated from the feel of the Pioneer deck, which I would think is a bad idea because everyone is so used to playing on them. Plus, the change between 0.016% and 0.02% is such a minute difference that I'd say for the sake of less confusion while allowing for more comfortable and predictable fader adjustment (due to a less sensitivity), I'd vote to make it consistent with how the CDJs work.

Hmmm, I can totally understand where you are coming from on this one and you are right, our aim is to emulate the CDJ experience, so maybe I am a bit mistaken to say "you may have to get used to it", so I apologize.

Ideally the CDJ should behave exactly the same using CDs as it does with Scratch Live, so I imagine this detail may have been overlooked at the time of development.

I can certainly see why it would become even more inconsistent when mixing between the two platforms.

The best I can do at this point is set this thread as a "feature request" and hopefully at some point it can be looked at being implemented in a future release, however I could not say with any certainty that it will happen anytime soon.

Hey, if you could do that, I would appreciate it. I was wondering why it was a bit more difficult to "dial in" on the correct pitch when trying to match the other track, and this would explain why. It's not horrible, but it is noticeable.

Thanks!
Mike

After some discussion with some of my colleagues I can give you some what of an explanation as to why it operates like this.

When a CDJ is operating normally, the pitch is absolute, and therefore when using a control CD the pitch has already changed before the signal has arrived to Scratch Live.

When using HID mode, Scratch Live interprets the signals sent from the pitch control and uses the internal pitch control system within Scratch Live instead. This pitch control in Scratch Live is able to be mapped by any MIDI controller, not just the controllers that are natively supported.

This means it has to operate "universally" so it will to be able to work with all controllers, and can't be specific to the way CDJ pitch operates. If the pitch control system was changed in Scratch Live to emulate the CDJ system, it would then change for all MIDI controllers, and may not function desirably.

As I said though, I still understand the problem it presents for you, it is something that could still possibly be addressed in the future. Thanks for bringing this up :)

Hey Martin,
I wanted to comment on your statement. Regardless of the mechanics of how the signal gets from the CDJ to the computer, Serato has chosen to assign 6 steps from 0.1 instead of Pioneer's 5 - in other words, Serato is redefining the fader's sensitivity of a proven and well-established standard. I would also go on to assume that this standard is probably much more widely used than any other MIDI controller being used out there used to control SSL.

I have been switching back and forth between HID mode and the control signal and there is a definitely a noticeably difference. The fader is much more twitchy and overly sensitive in the HID mode and regardless of the numbers; it's just way too sensitive and "uncomfortable" to mix with. I think there's a reason that Pioneer decided to use the amount of sensitivity that they did and I think it would be wise to stick to their standard, not only because it's already widely in use, but also because it's just easier to mix with.

And in regards to people using MIDI controllers with a pitch fader, I am guessing that most people will find it easier to mix with because it will either be the same as the native CDJ mode (meaning transparent when switching between HID/control signal), or it will feel like a CDJ (on a MIDI controller), which people obviously like. I think the only downfall would be if someone had a MIDI controller with a fader that was larger than the CDJ pitch fader, as then they'd lose resolution. As for the people with a smaller fader, they're already hurting due to the added sensitivity.

thanks!
Mike

Thanks Mike, your opinion is appreciated :)

I will set this thread as a "feature request" and maybe a product owner can consider changing the system to meet the Pioneer standard, some time in the future.

Just thought I'd add something else to this issue - I've notice that due to SSL trying to use excessive "sensitivity" for the fader, sometimes the value will change on its own, even though I wasn't touching the fader - this has happened quite a bit after I set it - about 4-5 times out of 10 vs never on the CDJ. I'm guessing this is due to SSL trying to read a value from the CDJ fader and the fader value is bordering two values causing it to jump to the next value. This is yet another reason why the sensitivity should be reduced to 5 steps from 0.00 to 0.10 instead of 6, as now you're actually losing accuracy due to error (noise).

thanks,
Mike

Sorry, my bad, meant to say 4-5 times out of 20.. so it's not horribly often, but it looks like SSL is occasionally interpreting error from the fader..

Actually, it does happen about 4-5 times out of 10 when I set the fader to certain values like 0.99 and 1.81 - some values seem more sensitive than others. I'll set it to 1.81, wonder why my mix is drifting, and then look back and it's changed to 1.79 or 1.82 without ever touching it!?

I find the CDJs do that with whatever the source. Don't think that one is HID related.

This is definitely HID related, but it's not due to the technology (which I think is awesome), but more so due to the fact that Serato is trying to read more values from the CDJ fader than it can reliably produce. I've never had this happen on my in the past two two years I've had my 900s and I attribute that to the fact that it takes a reasonable amount of fader movement to get the pitch to change from 1.02 to 1.04. Serato is using 0.015% of resolution and the CDJ fader just isn't accurate enough to hold particular values 70-80% of the time and results in ghost pitch changes - I don't think this is reasonable as my once-perfect mix now starts to drift. I could understand that this *might* happen on the CDJ, but it's that much less likely as the CDJ is staying within the mechanical limits of their pitch fader.

I know that this is a universal issue as it's a MIDI implementation, but I'd be really hard pressed to believe that there are many (any) other MIDI devices out there that have a larger pitch fader than the CDJ, and/or can accurately and reliably produce 0.015% resolution. I sure hope this is fixed in a future release.

Hi Mike, I couldn't get this to happen for me, are you able to make a video of this happening?

Particularly if you can show the pitch displayed on the virtual deck changing that would be awesome :)

Sometimes it does it a lot, sometimes it takes a few tries, but in the video you'll see that I set it and it didn't do it, then I moved the fader and set it again and at 0:34 you can see it change on its own from from 1.81 to 1.79:

Watchwww.youtube.com

It's probably getting caught on the "edge" of 1.81, but the likelihood of this happening is increased due to the fact that SSL is trying to glean more resolution than the fader can reliably produce.

Also, just getting to 1.81 is tricky as it likes to hop to either side with just the slightest movement.

Thanks for the video, thats really interesting to see. Yes I found it particularly hard to get to 1.81 as well.

So you are positive this doesn't happen when just using normal CDs in your CDJs also?
It definitely happens with BOTH your CDJs and not just one?

Perhaps it would be interesting to use a MIDI monitoring program to see if any MIDI messages are sent when that "ghost" adjustment is made.

Yes, it happens on both decks and there are certain values that are difficult to get to - my guess is that it's just due to the mechanical (analog) limitations of the fader itself.

I've never seen this happen while I'm using the CDJs with the control CDs.. granted, it probably has happened, but I didn't notice it. To give you an idea of the difference between control CD and HID, during the past few days of working on my new mix CD strictly in HID I've had the pitch change on me *at least* 40-50 times.

If you have any recommendations for a monitoring program for PC, I'd be happy to try. I can look for something as well. I'm sure it will also see the change as the pitch is being updated in SSL as well as on the deck - in other words, the CDJ is just showing what SSL is interpreting.

MIDI-OX is a great free MIDI monitoring program for Windows: www.midiox.com

Let me know the results, thanks :)

Ok, just did a bunch of testing with MIDI-OX and the fader value being used in SSL for pitch control is definitely not via MIDI - there are only 127 MIDI data points, whereas Pioneer has 600 unique pitch values (+/- 6% @ 0.02%) and SSL has 800 (+/- 6% @ 0.015%).

I then downloaded USBTrace and I watched the direct HID input from the the CDJ and once I had figured out what I was looking at, I exported the output and filtered out all of the duplicate fader values. I am counting a total of 986 unique data points.

I messed around with the fader quite a bit and when used alone it is pretty much rock solid. However, if you start doing other stuff on the deck like press buttons or move the jog wheel, sometimes that will make it change a value (i.e. from 02 hex to 04 hex). This is probably due to the internals shifting slightly, which I don't think is an unreasonable amount of error (for the raw output).

I'm sure Pioneer factored this into their reasoning for using +/- 2% to keep an acceptable amount of error in check. Because they're using 600 out of 986 data points, that is allowing the raw pitch data to change one or two values without having an affect on the calculated pitch. SSL is not allow much room for error and this is probably what's causing the ghost pitch changes. I would recommend that Serato try and match Pioneer's 0.02% tolerance because it's probably going to be a benefit for most any HID-compliant device.

Speaking of which - tell me if I'm missing something, but I did some searching and the only SSL-supported HID devices that I could find were some Rane mixers and Pioneer's CDJs. Since most DJs probably aren't controlling the deck's pitch from their mixer, is there really any reason for SSL not to use Pioneer's 0.02% increments if the only HID devices are Pioneer decks? It seems like the programming for the SSL-to-CDJ link is very specific to Pioneer's decks, so matching the two standards shouldn't be much of an issue, especially for a somewhat simple calculation like this.

Please let me know if you need any more information.

Thanks!
Mike

So are you saying that when the pitch jumps from say 1.81, to something else by itself, it is due to you pressing another button somewhere else on the CDJ?

When it does the "ghost jump" is any MIDI data sent?

Yes you are correct, there are not that many other "HID" controllers, which essentially is another description for a natively supported MIDI controller.

When I spoke of the pitch control being used by other MIDI controllers, I was not referring to just the HID controllers, but potentially any MIDI controller someone may connect to Scratch Live and then map any slider on their controller, to the pitch control on Scratch Live. This is why it would have to stay "universal."

In other words, push on the plastic around the fader, spin or push on the platter, press on the screen, bump the deck, whatever - that will make the *raw* HID output change. Like I said above, I think that is within the mechanical limitations of the fader output - it's obviously extremely sensitive. This is probably also why Pioneer is not using the raw output of the fader. Besides being way to sensitive, it would be unstable as well.

A perfect analogy of this would be the mouse sensitivity adjustment on your computer. SSL has it cranked up while Pioneer brought it down. Try turning up your mouse sensitivity all the way up and notice that probably the wind blowing or someone walking in the room will cause the pointer to move. Is that the fault of the mouse, no, it's the fault of the software/user turning the sensitivity up so high that normal mechanical, environmental, or electrical noise is causing undesired output.



No, and I wouldn't expect it to, at least not very often. Remember, MIDI supports 128 unique values, so that means from top of the fader travel to bottom, you only have 128 unique pitch values - that's an increment of almost 0.1%! That's quite a bit of fader travel before it's going to jump to the next value.



Unless I'm missing something MIDI and HID are two different specifications. Just because MIDI data is being sent over the USB connection, it doesn't have anywhere close to the resolution that HID does. In other words, just because I can assign MIDI values to my mouse laser pickup (because it hypothetically supports MIDI output), it doesn't mean that I'd ever want to read the laser movement values via MIDI - that would be nuts because the pointer would be jumping a quarter inch for a tiny movement of the mouse. Instead, you'd want to use the HID output because HID supports many more data points than MIDI.



That's the thing - there is no way that SSL is reading the MIDI data to calculate it's pitch values - there just aren't enough MIDI data points available. So, what we're talking about here has nothing to do with MIDI and everything to do with how SSL is interpreting the HID output.

Add to that, I've never seen a fader larger than the Pioneers, which is what would be needed to provide a more stable signal for SSL's current 0.015% incrememnt. So, for the sake of universality, I think Pioneer's standard is a good one to use as a foundation for a rock-solid and usable pitch increment, while allowing for enough fader sensitivity.

Hey Mike,

Thanks once again for your findings. I was reminded that not only are the Pioneer CDJs are HID spec, so is the Denon DN HC4500.

Again, all HID devices and MIDI devices when connecting to Scratch Live use the softwares internal pitch control. Regardless of how the device operates, the pitch control on the device has to be translated/reinterpreted for use with the softwares internal pitch control.

The reasoning behind the way this happens, and the reason why our pitch control was chose to operate this way, is beyond my knowledge and would have been decided by our Research & Development team when it was first being implemented.

I can't offer you much more answers about if this will ever change, other than saying that you can make a Scratch Live feature suggestion here: serato.com

If there enough people that want this change to happen, then it would be more likely to happen. But at this stage I can't see it happening very quickly, as it would involve quite a bit of development to completely rewrite the way the pitch control operates.

Thanks :)

And that unit has an even smaller fader. If they're applying a "universal" standard to all HID controllers, people who use that unit are going to be even more screwed than people using the Pioneer!



Yes, that I understand that completely, and SSL is interpreting Pioneer's pitch fader movement to allow for 0.015% pitch increments - it was no fluke that it's doing that - it was intentional. That is something that the programmers chose, and in my strong opinion, chose incorrectly.



This is frustrating - it's not a feature I'm requesting - it's a bug. Stable pitch control is one of the most important aspects of DJing on turntables, one which Technics went to great lengths to ensure. It should be rock solid 99% of the time. I would beg that you please forward this issue to the R&D team so that they can take a look at this and hopefully understand that their decision on how they programmed SSL has affected one of the most fundamental controls and gave it a stability of 80% or less - I'm sorry, but that just shouldn't be an acceptable value.

I acknowledge that the way this feature operates may not be implemented correctly in your opinion.

I also acknowledge that the way some of our HID functionality may need to be re-looked at for improvements.

I will pass this information on to our R&D team most definitely. On your end, it would be really awesome if you could still make a feature request in the Scratch Live feature suggestion area, if at the very least to gather support from other users to have a change like this made.

This will make the issue more visible and of higher priority to our Product Owners.

I have the same problem with a refurbished CDJ 400 i just bought. Does VDJ or traktor have the same issue in HID mode? Or do they use the regular 0.02% "steps"?

As it stands the pitch control is far too sensitive. I spend like 20-30 seconds moving the slider to get it to land on the number I want. This really has defeated the whole point of "native" mode as far as I'm concerned.

Hi Alchemy,

I am sorry this issue effects your Scratch Live experience. I could not accurately answer how VDJ or Traktor would operate in regards to pitch increments.

Unfortunately I can't provide you with much more information than what has already been discussed above.

Alchemy, I share your pains! Hopefully this will be fixed in a future release...

Just want to add that due to Serato's excessive pitch sensitivity, the pitch is extremely prone to changing with loud music - I have confirmed that bass thumping will cause the pitch to change. Someone please forward this over to the developers because this is not a workable solution. The DJ needs to be able to set the pitch and feel confident that it's not going to change, especially in a club environment!

I'm pretty sure I had already linked this: serato.com but we are definitely aware there are vibration issues with HID.

How much roughly do you see the pitch change with bass vibrations?

The pitch will change, for example, from 0.28 to 0.30 - it's really jumping a 0.015% step, but it's being rounded up. It is *very* repeatable and it is completely unrelated to the other issues linked above. The pitch problem is due to SSL's excessive 0.015% pitch sensitivity and SSL is reading these minute pitch fader changes as valid pitch changes, which it should instead be ignoring.

Like I mentioned before, the Pioneer fader is extremely sensitive and outputs *very* minute changes over the HID connection, but it's up to the software to correctly interpret those changes. Were SSL to follow the +/- 0.02 spec that Pioneer uses (which should be a matter of adjusting a calculation), then SSL would not have these issues.

Ok, understood. There is definitely some work to be done with HID in regards to sensitivity with the jog wheel and the pitch fader.

Again, I couldn't say for sure when improving HID will be looked into further.

Just so we're clear, it has absolutely nothing to do with the jog wheel. The problem is that the pitch fader is registering too many pitch increments for a given amount of pitch fader movement. The Serato programmers need to adjust SSL's pitch fader calculation so that a given amount of fader travel will register less increments for that given pitch fader travel (I'm recommending Pioneer's 0.02% instead of SSL's 0.015%).

Based on your response, it doesn't seem like you consider this to be a very serious issue and and I find this kind of odd, especially seeing that changes in pitch are happening during regular usage and even more often in a high-vibration environment, which is *precisely* the environment in which SSL is most used - I would think you guys would find this behavior to be unacceptable! This issue is *specifically* due to the way that SSL is programmed so I'm either guessing that you don't completely understand the issue or you don't think that SSL is the problem. This has nothing to do with the Pioneers as they are functioning properly - the problem lies with how SSL is programmed to interpret the data coming from the CDJ. And I don't think I'm asking too much to correct the SSL/CDJ integration so that it works as well as the Pioneers in native mode - they're the gold standard in CDJ technology so I would think if you had the opportunity to mimic their behavior, then you'd want to do it... especially if that was the original intention of the SSL/CDJ integration.

Hi msoultan, I am aware that your more recent issue is specifically related to the pitch fader, but I was speaking in general terms, both the pitch fader and jog wheel are overly sensitive with HID mode and improvements need to be made.

Believe me, as a technical support person, I do consider this a serious issue. As my far as my role goes, things would be easier for me if this issue was fixed, and then I wouldn't spend time attempting to help people with issues relating to this.

My response may seem brief or not taking you seriously, but this was not my intentions. It is simply because I cant offer you much more explanation than I already have.

Serato ARE aware that HID in general needs improvements, (your issues included) but I cant say when they will be looked into and resolved, as that part is completely out of my hands.

I have acknowledged that the software is at fault with many HID issues and not put the blame on Pioneer or anyone else (although I have asked you about certain aspects of your CDJs to investigate and understand the issue further.)

I have attempted to recreate your most recent issue in a high vibration environment but have yet to see it happen. Given the calibre of our discussions I can safely take your word for it though, that this is a real issue and it DOES affect you.

I will continue to attempt to recreate your issue (its always good for me to be able to see it for myself), would you be willing to make a short video showing it happening perhaps? I would greatly appreciate that :)

Sorry for the late reply to this - I got pulled away from this project and wasn't able to spend much time on it. That said, it's still an issue - to your comments:



These are stock CDJ-900s that function perfectly - I have watched the USB output of the pitch fader and it functions as expected. This really has to do with SSL's interpretation of that USB data. When you move the 900's pitch fader a millimeter, the deck is dumping out tons of unique USB values for *very small* movements of the fader. Even without touching the pitch faders, those USB values will wander slightly due to vibration, electrical noise, temperature, etc. This is not unreasonable because Pioneer is spitting out the *raw* data from the pitch fader.

Now, how SSL interprets those *very* minute pitch fader changes is at the core of this issue. What SSL is doing is tracking the data much too closely, so a very minute movement of the pitch fader (due to electrical noise, vibration, etc) is interpreted by SSL as a pitch change and you end up with a change in song speed. In terms of "feel", it makes the fader feel excessively sensitive (as another user also mentioned). And sensitivity can be a good thing, but in this case the mechanical limitations of the pitch fader cause you to "swing" past your desired value, and also cause ghost changes in SSL's pitch.

I think there is a good reason Pioneer stuck with the 0.02% increment. They're interpreting the exact same data that SSL sees, so they've obviously done their research on this, both in the lab and out in the field for *many* years. Why SSL decided to deviate from that standard when the whole goal was to emulate the feel of the Pioneer decks is kinda strange, especially seeing that Pioneer decks are the industry standard.



Here's a video I posted earlier that shows the issue happening. In this vid, I'm not even touching the deck:

Watchwww.youtube.com

At 0:34 the pitch was set to 1.81 and it changed to 0.79 - didn't touch a thing.

If you want to try and replicate it, connect SSL and make sure you're using the HID mode. Set your deck to +/- 6% and try setting the pitch to 1.81 and start tapping on your deck or platter. Certain values seem to be more prone to change, probably due to the way SSL is handling the rounding calculations (would be my guess).


If it's at all possible, I'd be more than happy to discuss this issue with one of the SSL developers. I think they'd quickly understand what I'm talking about because they had to write the code that interprets the data coming out of the decks.

Hey Mike,

I appreciate you getting back to me. After trying to go through your instructions to replicate it and looking at your video, I did manage to see this happen a little bit on my setup here with a 900 and an SL 3.

I completely understand everything you are saying, and the short of it is, we interpret the raw data not wrong exactly, but perhaps too closely as you put it.

I will be logging this particular issue as a bug, and referencing your thread, as well as quoting a lot of what you have told me, to explain this issue in detail.

Unfortunately our developers are extremely busy working on other projects, and very rarely do they have the opportunity to frequent our forums these days. The procedure here, as a technical support person, is for me to log this as a bug, document it, and then when the time comes for a developer/development team to start working on aspects of the code which relate to HID mode in particular, they will look at the report I have made.

As I have said in previously in this thread, I can't promise any direct action that can come from this, but I assure you that your contribution will make a difference when it comes time to work in improving this. If at this stage, a developer does require any further feedback, I will make sure they aware that they have the option of contacting you directly for further conversation.

Thanks!

You are correct, SSL isn't doing anything wrong, per se. I am glad that you were able to replicate the issue, though - that's the first step in getting something resolved, even if it might be a long ways away. Thanks for taking the time to write up the report and I'll keep an eye on future versions. Feel free to contact me if you need any more testing.

Thanks!
Mike

Thanks Mike :)

I just want to post an update that this issue is still incredibly frustrating. I am trying to do really long mixes which are initially matched perfectly and many times I'll be doing something away from the decks and hear them drift... only to find that the initial pitch I had has now changed. I really hope that the Serato software team will look at this and agree to use the same standard pitch increments that the Pioneer decks use - the faders are just too sensitive and it's not reliable - this just shouldn't be acceptable.

I apologize for the rant, but it's really frustrating to see such a rock-solid system have a weakness like this and not be fixed for over a year. I really hope someone is willing to take some time to clear this up because ScratchLive's implementation of the CDJ pitch fader just isn't true to the CDJ, and this was supposed to be a transparent implementation, something it definitely is not.

Serato have lied foir ages saying that HID will be re-visited but it's not going to happen. Either use timecodes or get Serao DJ and use sync for good beatmatching. Or since you are on CDJ-900 perhaps try without Serato and just use Rekordbox LINK.

I'm just going to jump in here and say that two clubs with two sets of 900's have the same issue of bass causing the HID to hop/skip/jump due to the sensitive nature of HID implementation.

It's a very frustrating experience.

I'm glad to finally see that I'm not the only one noticing this problem. I'm hoping someone at Serato is willing to take some time to look into this. The Pioneer decks are the *industry standard* decks. And it's not like I'm complaining about the color or some other ancillary feature, the ability to quickly and reliably change the pitch have been compromised, not to mention pitch stability - these are the core functions of DJing and what made the 1200s so popular! I just don't get why Serato decided to implement this differently than the CDJ when the whole goal was seamless and transparent integration. Please, please, please fix this!

Hey guys,

I know this is frustrating, and I have really done my best to push for improvements around HID problems in general including this particular issue, but it isn't always easy to jump up the priority ladder amongst all the other things going on.

I didn't lie though, improving our HID implementation is still definitely on the cards, and I have made sure that this should be taken into consideration in order to get the best Pioneer experience out of HID mode.

I can't promise you guys when this will happen though, but I encourage anyone having this issue to post up in Mikes other thread about this in the general discussion area: serato.com

The more people talking about this in the general discussion area, there more likely I can get my superiors to take more notice and bump this up the list of priorities.

Thanks,

Martin