windowsXp on a mobile PC is more stable than a mac

this is more of a preference issue than that of true fact in my opinion. I use both Macs and PCs and I find my PB much more stable. I think it is really up to the user and how the maintain their machine.

powerbooks are overpriced but fairly bulletproof - mine went flying off the roof of a moving car and is still fine.

damn J-Bravo I would have lost my shit if that happened to my PB. Good thing everything is ok!

i know - my own fault, was moving a load of stuff and left it on the roof. they are VERY well made.

your a very lucky man! Treat your PB as if it were your child. :)

What kind of crack have you been smoking - MAC OSX is much more stable than any windows program...

It is based on Unix so it is proven to be more stable. Plus Macs are easier - plug and play. with windows you gotta install this remove that and a whole buch of crap, and Im always hearing about hjow they gotta reinstall the XP os when something goes wrong what a drag...

WINBLOWS

In my experience Mac is much more stable. I got tired of the problems I had with my PC's (even with Windows XP) and switched to Mac and will never go back. I have had no problems with the three different Apple machines I have owned. Mac's may cost more but I think it worth it not just because they are more stable but because their support is stellar. If you own a PC machine like a Dell you will most likely be calling a rep from an eastern country like India that speaks broken English and is only trained to follow flow charts for support. (I am in no way prejudice against these people, I just find them hard to understand) With Mac you will be speaking to someone that you can understand that really knows the system. This is just my experience however...

On what is this statemen based on? And why should XP depend on whether its a mobile or not?

winxp systems become less stable when u have your third party chipsets trying to work with your third party periphials...on a mobile setup people are less likely to mix and match with hardware.., buy quality intel chipsets, with quality intel procs...nothing is more vigourously tested...u are only kidding urself when u think u can save a few bucks if u buy a sis or via chipsets made in taiwan, (only a handful of those chipsets actually work with minimal incompatibility issues)... the big misconception is that macs are more stable than pc...well with macs - hardware isnt mixed and matched, software engineers know their confingurations accross the board for g5s or powerbooks...when u have ur jaguar, panther, tiger, 10.1.2, 10.1.3 and the likes macOs isnt adding features

i own a mac which is great and am going to get a pc laptop as well, purely for speed and 'software' issues.

Mac OSX crashes - I've seen it with my own eyes. Likewise, XP crashes, I've seen that too. In my experience (I have 3 XP boxes, my GF has a PB) neither crashes often enough for me to care about it, and I've never had to reinstall the OS on any of them. Personally I don't like the OSX interface, and while I think the machines look nice, they are considerably heavier, larger and more expensive than the XP laptop I have. Not to mention, if I want an OSX laptop I have, what, 6 models to choose from? With XP I have hundreds, of every possible shape, size and cost. As for support, I never need to call MS or Apple. The couple of times I have called others, I've never had decent responses from any company. Tech support universally sucks.

Overall whilst previous versions of windows did indeed have stability problems, those are largely eradicated in XP. Lets not forget, Mac OS9 was hardly perfect...

It might be my imagination but I think I've seen a lot more posts on here from people having problems with OSX than XP.

Two causes:

1st power supply problem
2nd I think windows users are used to find a solution for a problem by themself, before asking. Mac users are used that everyting works out of the box. ;)

Could it be that there are more SSL users on Mac than PC due to poor Mac support for FS? This is a strictly theoretical guess.

Scientifically proven though, the Mac OS is upgraded FAR more often than Winblows. Not to say that either system is without its flaws, it just seems that Apple is more responsive and quicker to reply than Micro$oft.

XP was officially released in October 2001. To-date, there have been 2 major updates (Service Pack 1 & 2). Service Pack 2 was just released this month, and users are still reporting flaws.

OS X was officially released in May 2001. To-date, there have been 3 major updates (10.1, 10.2, 10.3). Mac OS 10.3 was released last October, while the 4th OS release is currently in beta testing (10.4, which by the way kicks ass).

The downside to running the Mac OS is that you can't go buy software from a display in some gas station. Boo hoo. Most major/important applications are available for both platforms (still waiting for Flat Foot Pete...)

Hm I dont know much about the fruit-pcs, but do you get minor patches or only big updates? If you dont get them, keep in mind that the big update for windows is mostly a collection of small patches, which are available much more frequently.

Small updates and security patches come on nearly a monthly update, ie: 10.3, 10.3.1, 10.3.2, 10.3.3, 10.3.4, and currently 10.3.5. Whenever a security issue needs to be addressed, an update is issued and apptly named "Security Update: (date of release)" So if you count all the minor updates, I would still say Apple is more frequent.

LMFAO

:)
I'd vote for the Mac but this is a pointless discussion and won't go anywhere.

s

Well, if you like windows XP and it's many wizards then all well and good.

"It looks like you're creating a new folder. Let me help you with the new folder wizard" (cue annoying sound and even more annoying animation of a dog or similar cute animal)

"It looks like you're creating a list. Would you like me to help?"

Also, on the weight side of things, much of the time this is because people forget when you carry around a PB or iBook you are carrying around everything you need. No need for docking stations to obtain an optical drive etc.

Plus, in all cases I've seen, a PC laptop's 'brick' power supply is heavier than an entire PowerBook g4 12" :-)

Even Apple's PSUs are sexy

/more bait for the fire

:-)

s

you gotta love the Mac vs. PC debates! :)

one button mouse..ha... if mac had their own way they would have a one button keyboard..just one big apple button..press it and it runs iLife

Lol.

lol

but what more do you need than iLife?

/just kidding, but almost serious.....

iLoveU

ha ha ....you guys kill me sometimes!

iLOL @ iLife....hehe

u hate that one buttonmouse..if there was one thing taht would stop me buying a mac it would be that, even though how insignificant it might sound to others....

im always using my rite mouse cliker to save time and make things easier for me.... this is how i see it.

For Music....Apple Wins

For Entertainment(movies,music,games,etc) PC wins

Ive never in my life have ever touched a mac...you can use mp3's and wav. files in Mac rite? hope its not only itunes...

Yes, Mac's can crash but it is very uncommon. I have owned three different machines and have never seen it happen once. It is a fact that PC's crash more often then Mac's do. I can't even count how many times a PC has crapped out on me. How you could prefer Window's interface over Mac's is beyond me. Windows is basically a striped down version of Mac OS (that had a windows type interface first). Mac OS have many advanced features that Windows does not. It is also more secure and there are little or no viruses. You may have less choses but I have yet seen one PC laptop that compares to the design and durability of a PowerBook. Once again it just seems like cheap knock offs of Apples design. If there are more problems with Mac's and SSL it has nothing to do with the Mac's. If anything it should be more stable. People in the music industry prefer Mac's for a reason you know!

name one feature that windows PC does not have or a better implementaion of it even

All powerbooks have built in microphones for audio chat. Do PCs?

and you can run Widows OS on a MAC but you CANT run a MAC on a Winblows machine.

MAC is where its at......runnin a month straight...not one crash. G4 1.25 with 768 megs ram

Id also like to say......

RANE SERATO is so damn good i just cant get enough....and neither can dallas!

hubb
dallas, tx

its just a fact: WINDOWS SUCKS MONEY BUT

Never heard of PearPC? pearpc.sourceforge.net

And virtual PC is microsoft now... :-S

I just made the switch to APPLE an I dont have a issue at all with my computer. In fact I brag more that I own a APPLE product. I never had such satisfaction owning a PC an all the crashes an other headaches i had to incounter.

running my tablet PC (with a mic built in) since april...not one crash

so is a mac able to do everything a PC does?

is mac only compatible with itunes?

im a mac nublercake

There are some applications for mac which you can't get on PC and vice versa...

What do you mean is a mac only compatible with iTunes? As in, is that the only audio player for mac? no.

well the best vst sequencer in the world is only compatible with mac...

im talkin about emagic logic series...

is a stock g4 laptop, the 15 inch model with 1.3 ghz and 560 ram is a good choice?

There are simply too many to mention! Instead go to www.apple.com and tell me one of those features that the PC has. How can you debate in favor of PC when you don't even know the other system?

I'm staying out of this, but if I had my way I would have the best available machines of both flavours.

I put up with both.

And if you could only own one? I don't have one reason to own a PC. What have you had to put up with on your Mac? Mac users swear by their machines, PC users swear at their machines. As a former PC user I can honestly say "Once you go Mac you don't go back". I won't say anymore however because I know this could go on forever.

Personal preference is the darndest thing... ^_^

I didn't think you'd have the balls to answer my question! I don't blame you though since you are a moderator. I'm sure you don't want to come of biased towards one system and risk pissing people off since you're trying to promote SSL. Probably a good decision, so I suppose it's not about having balls but being smart.

If I HAD to have a PC, I'd buy an IBM box and run solaris on it :-P

from when I've dealt with IBM laptops, I've always been impressed with their keyboard quality. Almost as good, if not as good as the Apple ones.

All other pc laptops I've used suck in terms of quality. They're just rebranded no name boxes straight from Taiwan.

I always tell my friends to buy a big name PC if they really have to, just so they have someone to moan at *when* it goes wrong :-P

stu

/currently sitting in a school in North London fixing a room of dells :-(

If you mean for SSL then YES most definately. I use the 17" 1.33 ghz with 512 ram, and it runs so smooth. That is a GREAT machijne for SSL - especially with the new update 1111. They added some new improvements to the USB buffer for mac and this machine will now run on the lowest latency setting possible for the MAC. You will have no regrets with that one for sure.

IBM laptops ...No track pad..u have to deal with their track stick joystick thingofajig which is clumsy at best

^^--to each their own, I can't stand touchpads...

Me neither. I hate thos touchpad. Trackpoint devices are easy to use for me and I dont have to move my hands much to move the mouse, matter of fact the fingers stay on the keyboard, the dont have to move to the touchpad.

Unfortunately my new dell 2.4GHz doesnt have a trackpoint device, a shame :(

I have to agree with Josh. i mean it's just a computer, it's not a freakin religion. I'm typing this on my Windows box right now, but have gotten used to *gulp* Windows and it's not that bad.

I used to be real hardcore Mac fan. Then came the inital OS X with its horrible UI. And the round mouse before that was just terrible. I lost faith in Apple until recently when they started listening to their customers and implementing features not just for the sake of OS X being pretty and Jobs having supreme dictatorship. Jaguar started to make the OS useable and Panther smoothed out lots of rough edges.

I hate the touch pad myself because I was use to IBM thinkpads, now I have a compaq. If I could have found a 1.3 mhz apple, I would have gotten it, but I just could not find a decent Mac for under $800, so I got the compaq. It does run hot, but when I got the fan on it, I'm good. My next laptop will probably be a Mac though, just to say I got them both.

same as looking for a used bentley for $9,999

lol

try an eMac, $799: CD-RW & 17" monitor. heck for $999, you can double the HD space and get a DVD burner built-in. fully SSL compliant. no so much portable, but a decent Mac under $800 none the less.

Yeah... right now I'm good, People be having Macs and all that and still can't dj....LOL. I'll cross that Mac bridge when I get to it. I'm satisfied and appreciate what I have now. I never let the equipment define, or hold me back. I try to do the best with what I have... hope for more, of course, but take what I can get.

i think that is spot on. i use a powerbook and love it but it doesnt define me as a dj. there are plenty of people with the best setups who cant dj for shit. a computer is a tool, in this case to aid creativity, and that should be all.

PC notebooks are - right now - available in faster configurations than Macs, and are very reasonably priced. If I was to dedicate a system to Scratch LIVE it would be a PC, but only if I could guarantee it went nowhere near the internet :-)

If I had to pick a general purpose notebook that would be regularly connected to the internet, I'd get a Mac, no question.

I believe if SSL was fully optimized for the Mac it would be a more stable platform than PC (just like it is for everything else). I know I said I would shut up but I just can't help myself!

i agree with both those comments

powerbooks specifically are: vey well made, look nice, work well/elegantly, are over priced/underspecced, only have one mouse button etc.

i think it is a good machine to run SSL on.

Mac's may cost more but it is worth every penny in my opinion. (I'm no rich boy either, I'm paying a high interest rate on my machine but it's definitely work it) The hardware is better, the OS is better, and the support is better. I agree that the one button mouse is stupid but you can buy a third party two button mouse with a scroll wheel and they work flawlessly (I sold my Apple mouse on eBay). Apple is supposedly coming out with one soon. I prefer a touch pad but never used a trackpoint much. Can you double click and drag with one? I bet you could buy an iBook that meets the SSL requirements on eBay for $800. I guess you may be trading power for stability but will still benefit from the advanced OS. It is a fact that in the end it doesn't come down to the equipment you own but your creativity however!

twelve inch powerbook- this tiny hunk of plastic is amazing.

i hope ssl doesn't get optimized for the mac, that would probably kill the product. don't get me wrong, i love my mac much more than my pc. but i hate it when software alienates a certain platform (like the auto bpm tools for pc that i can't use on my mac). if serato only made ssl for the mac, it would lose a huge customer base. no matter how stable the product became, they probably couldn't sell enough units to pay the customer support staff that has made this item head and shoulders above the competition.

When I say fully optimized for Mac, I don't mean quit supporting PC. I would like to see SSL at it's fullest potential on both platforms!

u are definately misinformed

tashafe, about what?

Well you have yet to tell me one of the advanced feature that Mac OS has that Windows does. Can you tell me of one application that Windows is more stable than Mac? I suppose I shouldn't of said like everything else. I was really referring to different Multimedia Apps and should of made myself more clear. From what I've heard from you, you haven't even tried Mac or know anything about it. I come from PC so I know the differences between the two. I don't care if you prefer PC but if you are going to debate that Windows is better than you should have some facts to back it up. I'll really try to stop here because I know this isn't going anywhere. Like I say I just can't help myself, always have to have the last word (LOL). No hate however, I guess I just enjoy arguing. On a separate note what do you guys think of a usb trackpad for use with SSL?

i am a software engineer during the day time

tashafa, so?

when it comes to everyday use... its up to personal preference. macs seem more stable because there is less of a wider variety of configurations to code for (less cases)...but when it comes to robustness and features Macs dont even come close... If u where to program SSL for a particular OS, yeah they would be more stable for that particular OS,but most of the time you can put features on the PC that u couldnt on the mac..not cause the Mac cant do it, but Macs cant compare to the flexibility and processing power of windows/linux based PC which enables u to add more features and not suffer as much of a performance hit.

linux is not anything which sticks only to "normal" (x86) pcs, its a kind of unix, and mac os X is also based on a unix flavor.

macOS isnt based on unix... it just has a unix (bash) terminal so u can use a command line interface like unix

Certainly its not only bash which is implemented into OS X, check www.apple.com

macOS isnt based on unix as in linux... they may have implemented features so as to act and work like unix but it still their propietery OS that runs the show

proprietary kernel*...i mean

no different than running cygwin in a windows enviroment

Its proprietary, yes, which doesnt mean its not based on unix. Believe what you want to believe.



taken from following pdf document images.apple.com page 3

it doesnt change the fact that the macOS is slow compared to windows/linux based x86s

nerdtastic - last SSL update was still rubbish

for me i still see it as a placeholder till new vinyls comeout... and we can forget about this PD issue hopefully...then we can move on to adding features

i think serato should forget about this PD issue as long as the new vinyls will fix the problem (as it should)...and start to work on features.

Youre still believing in MegaHertz-ghosts? And btw, its not the OS which is slower... ;)



Agreed.

Nope..but i believe in the "un-proprietering" of hardware as to lead manufactures to develop faster/better/more technologically advanced/cheaper products for the consumer through the cause/effect of competition.

if anyone is guilty of false advertising and claims about speed ..its apple.

how about "un-proprietering" of the operating system? apple has an open-source code. remember how pissed microsoft was a couple of months back when just a little bit of there windows source code got leaked?

besides, apple's hardware is pretty much standard stuff. the only thing that they keep secret now is the boot rom.

Sorry but you simply don't have your facts straight tashafa! (Please take no offense to this post however) Mac OS X definitely doesn't just have a Unix type command interface but is actually built straight from it (Apple quit using their own proprietary OS some time ago). It is also not true that PC's are more robust and have the capabilities to have more features than Mac (if it was Windows definitely wouldn't be living of to it's potential having less). If anything I believe it is the other way around! It may be true that PC's have more sheer power but that doesn't equate to better performance. Like I've said before the music industry prefer Mac's for a reason! Peace! (OK, I'm done, moving on, bite my tongue...)

i really dont care much about companies reserving their right to proprieterize when it comes to software ...but hardware, standardization is key.

macOSX isnt built from UNIX... its built of freeBSD..which at one point was sued by UNIX.. they removed all the UNIX code and what was left was a kernel that was compatable with unix..so in theory u can say macosx is based of UNIX

not just FreeBsd...some other kernels too

which some here did :-D

i guess if u play connect the dots long enuff

...i can link unix to windows

And we are both brothers cause we all came from Adam and Eve ;-)

exactly

If you play connect the dots long enough, you'll figure out that Windows XP is built on top of DOS. And for that matter, Windows Longhorn is based off of Windows XP.

So, the latest version of Windows and the next major release are based off of proprietery software that is not only 25 years old, but 5 years ago caused widespread panic because the lazy people that programmed it to begin with didn't think enough of it to believe it would last until the year 2000 (Y2K anyone?)

and when the year 2000 came around ... did ur computer crash? did u loose your life savings? did the world come to an end like the people u listened to/get your info. from predicted that those events i mentioned earlier was going to happen? c'mon man, pay attention...

actually Windows XP is based on the NT kernel, which broke its DOS ties years ago with windows 2000. there's nothing about DOS in the OS (as much as people like to believe).

on the apple side, darwin (apple's term for its unix foundation) is open source, which is based upon freebsd (which is also open source). the only thing that's proprietary is the gui. apparently apple chose that particular flavor of unix (freebsd) versus other flavors (say linux) is because the licensing restrictions weren't as tight. all you windows people can actually download and compile darwin to run on your x86 machines, but you won't get the aqua gui.

the only reason apple keeps their hardware closed is the company thrives as being a hardware company. debate as you like but Apple won't make any money if they decide to let other manufacturers make their hardware. (remember about 8 years ago when apple actually tried this and almost went belly-up). this approach only works for M$ because they have so much muscle.

The Y2K problem had it's roots in 1960's punchcard technology, Gates et al didn't cause it, they just failed to recognise the error as did everyone else.

y2k never affected apple and their forward thinking os, no need to fix code (wasn't broke to begin with)

lol

i guess all those banks and wall street used macs then

no they, used windows. haven't you ever seen office space?

that scene where he's struggling to log-out is a funny mixture of both, great movie! must see IMO.

someone's got a case of the mooooooonndays ;)

<two cents>Actually the application used by NASDQ is a PROIV application, which is a 4GL cross platform app written in C, in which the server version runs on various flavors of UNIX, Linux, or Windows. </two cents> And as we all know the Y2K bug was more FUD than an actual threat.

if i can remeber correctly ...they used mac os in "office space"

In the scene I mentioned all the progress bars are macOS and when he finally logs out it goes to a C:\> prompt.

I think its that Hollywood OS.

dam, this discussion is still going on? 40 unread posts! There's a lot of bullshit flying around here.
:-)
I love the movie "What lies beneath" where the camera clearly shows what I think was a Mac Performa 6200 or similar and it boots up in about 5 seconds. I've always wanted that Mac

Where's my stapler!!!!??

Apple have a certain amount of reputation in terms of quality. Could you imagine the 100s of shitty taiwanese companies making Mac 'compatible' motherboards? I shudder at the thought.

urgh, I'm going to go and wash my hands

s

funniest thing I've heard all day:

its freeBSD which is technically not unix..it is an OS based off unix

Have you run linux or unix tashafa? If your into that stuff I thought you would enjoy a Mac becuase you can go into unix. I would like to learn some of that stuff but don't know if it's really necessary.

..so its an unix flavored OS. Anyway, your statement "it just just an unix (bash) terminal" is wrong. Throw your hands up, give up, we gotcha ;-)

nah u give up and join the dark side...macs are just overpriced, underpowered toys... use a real tool

I really don't understand why you want to be such a hater. It's funny because before I started using Mac's I also heard about how their users were the haters. I have experienced quite the opposite. I prefer Mac but don't hate on those who use PC and haven't come across any other Mac users that do. My Powermac G5 Dual 2Ghz is no toy either. Saying that is just ignorant. I will ignore any future smart remarks in the future. You should try and be more open minded and act like an adult (after all you are one aren't you?)

tashafa, whatever. I dont own a mac, I dont even use a mac. I have only linux and windows machines, but that doesnt mean I am narrowminded, I keep my eyes open, and I am aware of the pros and cons of each OS. You should just know about what youre talking before you start argueing, and it looks to me like this requirement has disqualified you :-P Anyway no need to either hate macs, nor me or you :-)

I tell ya what, I'm really thinking about my next laptop will probably be a PcTablet. Touch screen, you cant beat that.

Tablet PC's look dope. Do you think the touch screen would function well for SSL? I wonder if it would be difficult to drag songs and other stuff with you finger. If not that would be awesome! Can't get that with Apple either! I think that some type of control made for SSL would be the best ultimately however.

so what all the music produced, all the videos edited and art produced on a mac? not bad for a "toy" computer i'd say.

I love all the Mac and other tech mags that come out of Europe, they're the best! It seems like the more of the general public is down with high tech gagets in Europe, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm a tech geek myself!

Again, I beg to differ...I've read where even cartoon animation is done on P.C. Most people I know have a p.c. and Protools. And I think the Processors are better than mac if I'm not mistaken...And the price as well.. I don't need icing, I need cake. The Apple looks good, but pound for pound, if I'm going to pay more for a computer with the same specs, It better be waaay better for the average 2-300 bucks more. But we can on and on about it. It reminds of when I was driving taxi cabs for a living. People would rather pay me up front what they think it's gonna cost... as opposed to staring at my meter every sixth of a mile.... It's all about perception.. They may pay me 5 dollars for a 3 dollar ride.. just because you don't want to stare at the meter. I really think Apple is getting over on just pure perception right now. Maybe at one time it was a faster, but that was then. P.C. is lapping them now. Now the operating systems may be another story.. I thought win me was way more stable than XP. Any way scratch on people's.

Actually most of all the major music studios use protools on a mac.

He was referring to people he knows, but certainly mac has a hold on the audio industry.

PC processors may be faster in laptops but Apple can definitely compete when it comes to their Powermac's. You can get a 1.5 Ghz Power PC in a Powerbook and Dual 2.5 Ghz Power PC in a Powermac. Does anyone know what processors that would equate to in a PC chip? You may pay more for a Mac but in my experience their hardware, OS, and support are much better then any PC's. So I defietely don't think it isn't just perception. Maybe their looks which I must admit I'm a sucker for but I believe it is an all around much more superior and stable system (which is a better trade off for power IMO) Like I've said before in the end it comes down to creativity and not you system but having better tools can definitely help.

Clock speed is not the be-all-and-end-all of performance by any means though...

Alot of people consider on-chip cache to be much more important.