Also, Can you please implement a way to EDIT one's own posts? This is a standard option in every other discussion forum and BBS I've ever seen. This website stands alone in it's policy of denying users the option of editing their own posts.

+1 to both!

+1

two very good points really would like the poll feat.. if not we have to keep count of the +1 & -1 lol

Hi billynoah.

We have a number of mechanisms for gauging what people like, don't like, want, don't want etc. This forum is one of them (and an important one at that) but not the only one.

I'm curious to here how you think polls are of benefit to users such as yourself.

Also, the post editing thing has been discussed many times before. I'm not going to go back and explain our reasoning all over again but for the time being we're happy with the forum the way it is.

just as you said this is an important forum and 101% important to me i been playing music to make money from the age of 16 its my life my love and my JOB which i done very well using records, cds, vdj and now that i am an owner of the vci-300mk1 and waiting for my vci-300mk2 my work as a dj centers around itch+hardware if one goes wrong i lose money.
now you may have other mechanisms for gauging the user but i dont my only gauge to my next serato move is here!! so if Polls help my to make a choice based on what most people think is best then polls would be great.

well a lot of times i read the forums to gauge public opinion. sometimes a vast majority of people will strongly disagree with a particular idea someone presents and it makes a case for re-thinking one's perspective. other times when you find nearly everyone agrees then it's an affirmation and can possibly fuel the fire of progressive change to an application or hardware set.

to be continued...

and i seen this kind of thing a few times in this forum WE'RE HAPPY or AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT
you sound like you only like to talk when we give serato a round of applause

lol

But I'm talking to you right now, right?

My statement regarding editing posts was made because I've had this discussion many times before. I understand the request but, on the balance of things, it's something we choose not to implement at the moment.

Bu that may change, so it's good that you've voiced your opinion.

As for polls, my concern with them is that they reduce complex issues and discussions down to simplistic numbers. I'm not saying they're worthless but I do question their value.

It's awesome that guys consider this forum important, and I agree: it's an awesome resource. But I reckon you already get the opinions, likes, dislikes etc that you're after.

It may not be distilled down into straightforward numbers, and it means that to get full value from this resource you need to invest a bit of your time. But ultimately it's more meaningful to explore the shades of gray rather than have things presented in black and white.

Thanks now i see what you mean a full on discussion i guess would have a more value but still polls give a good over view to see what people are thinking as not everyone writes but would take a few secs to click a poll.

would of edited above but we cant. no pun intended lol
i mean...
*not everyone writes here in the forum some only read but maybe would take a few secs to click on a poll.

Many questions/issues on this forum are indeed complex, and I assure you the people who write quality posts now will continue doing so regardless of whether there is a poll at the top of a thread or not. On the other hand, some questions like "Would you like Video-SL in the next ITCH version?" can be answered by most people as Yes/No. Other questions like "What's the next feature you'd like to see in ITCH?" may benefit from having the most popular answers as poll options - with people elaborating further in their posts. Just my 0.02.

The idea of polls just makes it easier for everybody. Everyone has an opinion to there answer. Thus making some answers more difficult to get to. If their were polls people would see some actual numbers instead of just reading others opinions. Not saying an opinion is irrelevant but their are some things people would just like to see the numbers. It's straight and to the point.

Fair call.

+1 on the polls (especially if users can also create them!)

i think they would provide one more mechanism for users to let serato (and other users) know wich issues are more important for them...

as an example we all know lots of ppl still ask for these features in itch, but do we really know wich ones they find more important between:
bridge
ssl fx
video support
(some) midi mapping support

also please note that polls can be created in such a way as to give users an opportunity to express relative importance of suggestions in shades of gray. such as "rate your desire for <whatever> on a scale of 1 to 5". and then present user feedback as an average number rather.

most people like to know the results at the polls when they vote on political issues. it helps put things in perspective and give participants an idea of the general climate. i don't necessarily want to write a well thought out post on every issues, nor do i always want to sift through pages upon pages of opinions. sometimes i do, but not always.



sorry, but i missed the related threads in regards to this. since you are "not going to go back and explain" would you mind providing me a link to said reasoning?

+1

ChrisD, maybe you missed my request, but could you please provide a link to the post editing discussion(s) you mentioned? i don't want to trouble you to re-explain this if it's already been discussed as you said, but i would like to check out the more detailed explanation given in prior threads. thanks!

There's no one discussion about editing posts. It's a topic that's popped up a number of times over the years.

Our basic reasoning is that editing posts has the potential to upset the flow of a discussion.

You can preview your comments before you post them. And if you do add put in a typo or something that doesn't quite make sense is it really that big of a deal? Even if you say something that, in retrospect, you regret it's simple enough to apologize or explain yourself.

But just to be clear: these things are never absolute. We do listen to you guys and if there are solid reasons for doing so then we'll add the feature.

if we had polls then we could vote "should we be able to edit" yes or no if yes was the winner that would be a solid reason!!!

Ha ha. Fair call :-)

thx just havin abit of fun but on a real the forum is cool and your never make everyone happy at the same time, keep up the good work.

polls would be great.

I think some users would offer their input that normally don't (lurkers) and it would cut down on the chatter that arises when a simple yes/no or rating would tell a better story.

nailed it

thanks for this response.

i understand your idea that editing posts has the potential to upset the flow of a discussion. however, many other factors such as spelling mistakes, errors in grammar and reactionary statements currently hinder the dialogue here to a great degree. the ability to edit one's own posts provides a very effective way to address these issues. a simple time stamp would be placed on edited posts to let others know.

i sincerely believe that the majority of edits will result in a MORE cohesive thread rather a less cohesive one. for the many users who access these forums in order to learn about issues by reading, this would be a great benefit.

at the very least i would like the option of deleting my own posts and re-posting them as i see fit.

let me know how you feel about this line of reasoning.


+1

Deleting your posts? Extremely unlikely. If you post something that you want to delete you should never have posted it in the first place.

That pretty much encapsulates our entire reasoning behind editing posts too: you guys HAVE to take responsibility for your online behavior. If you say something regrettable you have to man up and accept the consequences of your actions.

Spelling and grammar mistakes? Meh.

in your last post you said but now you're saying this seems a bit contradictory.

that being said, i can appreciate your desire for users to take responsibility but i'm not altogether comfortable with a policy which restricts what we can do in an attempt to enforce this. if that's really the reason... that just seems a bit... weird. i don't know of any other online community that takes user rights away in order to supposedly facilitate better discussion flow.

and again, regarding the first line of reasoning, i disagree. my experience is that user edits generally result in a more concise thread.

dunno.. i guess it's YOUR forum after all so you can make the rules. but as a user and customer i want to express that i feel this kind of policy isn't in anyone's best interest.

imagine if firefox wouldn't let you delete your cookies because they want to make you take responsibility for your browsing?! or if you couldn't erase a wall post on facebook? does that seem ok to you?

Firefox can do whatever they want. I can use another browser if I want to. Facebook can change their behavior if they want to (which they do - all the time) and if I don't like it I'll stop using it.

Serato have been running this forum for many years so we have a very solid foundation of experience to base our decisions on. Personally, I don't care too much for comparisons with other forums because for the most part I think they suck.


Understood. As I said earlier, nothing is set in stone.

right, as you said, people would stop using them. that's my point.
really?! i mean.. are you seriously telling me that we shouldn't compare Serato's forum with any other forum on the internet because you "think they suck"?! that's appallingly arrogant. please tell me i'm misunderstanding you.

It's not arrogant, it's an opinion. Evidently you disagree with me. Fair enough.

By all means keep asking for this feature. We're listening.

I have to back up Chris on this one. This forum has a character that is unique in the net world. Not everybody likes it, but I think it is this way because of the simple rules that are in place.

I and many others reference all kinds of posts on this forum to help others find useful information. If those posts got edited it would change that whole dynamic. For the most part Serato and Rane are very responsive when someone needs help or crucial information needs to be dispersed (ahem.....except the VSL section...cough) but there is a large degree of users that step up to help too.


If you are really concerned about spelling and grammar just use the preview button.

thanks both of you for taking the time to talk about this. i value your viewpoints. cheers.

In my opinion, you are arrogant, but not suprised. You're only demostrating the image of Serato that give account of Serato's behavior. Something simple like a polls forum which I may or may not participate but this request seem to be too much trouble to grant in your words. So granting something like Video in Itch or opening an additional midi mapping for 2.0 SP6 is wayyyy out of the ballpark for the head dudes in charge. I get it. But thanks in advance for responding.

i seriously doubt that... unless users were rather abusive with their post edits. and if someone is the type to edit posts in an abusive way, they are most likely NOT the author of posts you would be referencing. i think you can generally expect that edits would only improve the clarity of the information presented.

in other forums where we do allow post edits, it is an extremely rare edit... maybe 1 in 500, where someone notices a problem & complains about it. it does happen, just not very often. don't you think the 499 constructive edits would justify this?

I don't have a problem with it, and I can see why it is the way it is.

I also see your point. I don't know about your stats though, they seem like a guess.

When I go to djforums or djtechtools forums and I see that "edited" in the post it turns me off from using those forums. (so does endless pages per thread, signatures, and oversize avatars)


Personally, I would rather see Serato focus on the products than the politics of the forum. However I do see that the subject of this thread may be helpful.

I just got used to using the preview button.

true, my "1 in 500" stats are a guess. i'm sure it would vary depending on the user base.

keep in mind Serato has a team of people who get paid specifically to develop and maintain this site. so it's really not a trade off. if we get polls and post edits that doesn't mean we won't get video and midi mapping cuz they spent all their time working on the website! lol.

Also, note the title of this thread. the edit post thing was more of an afterthought. the more important idea for me was the ability to create POLLS. let's focus on that since the editting thing seems to be out of the question.

yes!
recount: +1 on the polls (and allowing users to create them not only serato)

It would be cool to edit ur post due to bad grammar and words that was forgot to be put in post, II notice some forum give you certain amount of minutes to edit ur post after that time lapse u cannot edit the post anymore... this would be a good idea too for serato forum too. Maybe u can give a 5 min window period to do this

i have though exactly the same several times,
then i remember the preview button (that i never ever use)
i guess that it is there for a reason ;)

seems like a 5 or 10 minute rule could potentially solve almost all my problems, and it probably wouldn't pose any of the problems that ChrisD has brought up likeirresponsible posts & thread continuity issues.

it would be a good compromise.

a poll would be really useful to track the opinions in this thread

my apologies for starting this thread in the wrong area.. could an admin please move it to the Websites Discussion board where it belongs? thanks

Sure thing... zzzzzzzzzzap!

Kapow.

Jinx.

aaand we're done

looks like its 10 to 0 so far on Polls idea... unless one of you is against polls and i didn't understand. out of curiosity are any of you admins at all considering adding them at this point?

Yep. Because you suggested it, we have been considering it.

thats nice to hear!

hey just curious if there's been a verdict on the topic of polls yet? if not do you have any kind of timeline for making a decision? thanks

Coming right after Bridge for ITCH is released.
(sorry, couldn't resist!)

sorry but that joke is lost on me since i have no idea what "Bridge for ITCH" is.

but it would be super awesome to get a genuine answer to my question from a staff member. it's been a few weeks now... i assume if you guys have been considering it that you may be close to making a decision on this. hows about it? i'm still rooting for this.. perhaps even a Staff moderated public polling system would be a nice compromise if you wanted to maintain some form of control and focus.

Surveymonkey?

I mean really, how much would adding a poll feature benefit the forum? If you really want people's opinions that much go create your own poll on surveymonkey or one of the other plethora of other FREE online survey builders

thanks for the suggestion 2Seven. however, i feel introducing surveys off site wouldn't have the same effect due to the fact the many users may feel less inclined to navigate away from here to participate or even just to see poll results. so the polls would likely get less exposure to the intended demographic overall. additionally i am theorizing that some of the staff here might take a moderated and officially supported serato website poll a bit more seriously. can't really say for sure but i know i would.

If the verdict on polls is "NO" that's fine and i may indeed take your advice about conducting polls on a third party site.. in the meantime, i was just hoping for a definite answer one way or the other.

Serato staff generally don't talk about what they are doing until BAM it's there.

Hi again, all I can say is polls won't be coming in 2011.

LOL! I am NOT mad at you for this.

It IS what it is, but I will say that a LIMITED TIME to EDIT a post might strike a happy medium.

Let's face it, if someone wants to be an A-Hole, they're gonna post reckless - REGARDLESS.

No amount of backtracking and editing posts will erase their intent, and if the majority of the reason behind NOT having an edit button is based on keeping evidence of RECKLESS POSTING, then you're not giving the majority of the posting population the benefit of the doubt, as the MAJORITY has no ill intent, only SPELLING and Grammatical issues, that they'd like to rectify.

Besides, you'd still be able to PRESERVE the RECKLESSNESS, because someone who is say "Offended" by a post, simply has to QUOTE it(NM), and there's your static evidence.

Someone would usually want to delete an offensive post AFTER someone points it out, not usually nanoseconds after they posted it.

PREVIEW BUTTON!!!!


learn about it, know about it, use it

easy....no training wheels required

Your points are valid JohnnyM: a time limited Edit button would be a good tool for most people. But it's also true that using the Preview button is a good habit to get into.

As always, nothing is set in stone and we discuss these things regularly.

But that's just an "Extra" step to take...and YES people should PROOF READ ANYWAY, but hey, in this world of AutoCorrect, some things may LOOK OK, but when posted are obvious errors.

I'd like to have the feeling of being able to post continuous thought and keep it flowing vs. constantly re-reading it, but hey, that's just me....and I'm usually a stickler for Spelling, Grammer (sp), and such, and I STILL make errors.

I think it's cool that y'all even consider it, so that's fair enough.

ok, i made this survey (as suggested in another thread). everyone who has an opinion, please take the time to participate.

www.surveymonkey.com

(edit) <as suggested IN THIS thread>

:-)