I am. Thats the first thing i listen to when i'm listening to other DJs, is how good their phrasing is.

I am amazed by the amount of DJs that are completely clueless in that regard, but I'm not bothered by it. Not at all. As a matter of fact, I love it. Because the shittier they sound, the better I do. LOL.

lol

I've tried to explain the simple concept to other local cats, even gone as far as counting bars out loud for them, and they still don't get it... SMH!

phrasing? u mean when one verse ends and the next begins? 4/16/32?

most of the phrasing now days has to do with pushing the cross fader from right to left or vice versa.

what does this mean though? lol

what does it all mean?

More like it's one of the giveaways if they don't have it down, whether it's as bad as mixing mid verse or chorus or even worse just being off by a bar or two (which I'm guilty of in one of my live mixes but I was VERY intoxicated and missed the loop button--forgive me).

Anyone that doesn't understand it with how formulaic dance and pop music is should not be forgiven.

The way I explain it to guys that I have taught is basically listen to a song - don't worry about mixing - JUST LISTEN - and start counting to 32 - over and over and over again

Every 32 beats - something happens....

If you start your mix on a 1 and learn/know your songs - your mix may be perfect on a 32...

Hard to explain - But easier in theory

the problem with that explanation is that a lot of songs have different timing, some choruses are only 4 bars and not 8, some intro's are like 5 bars and not 8, some builds throw in an extra 2 bars before a drop.

Knowing your music is a plus, but even if you don't - if you're mixing something like hip hop, you should be auditioning the tune and counting the bars of the intro to make sure you're starting the mix in the right place - a lot of these kids (and hell, a lot of vets I know) don't understand how that actually works...

101 lol

that is probably the most useful thing about looking at waveforms, you can anticipate the build-up/break downs and begin your mix accordingly even if you're not as familiar with the peice of music...

ive noticed sometimes it seems the artist is the one confuesed, i hate it when an artist is mid sentence on the 32 or a chorus is like 7 bars

To 'test' dj's i always let them mix 'Los Del Rio - Macarena'. The right way to start the song in, is on the 1,5 beat. 90% of the dj's start it on the 1st beat. Try it!

or you could listen in your headphones and count :P

a lot of hip hop and dancehall sounds like the producer is building the track around the vocals so there's a ton of extra bars and beats, and weird timing and phrasing - it's why it pays to actually know you tracks...

As a rule ALMOST ALL music (done right) is based on that 32 beat rule - again if you know your music - you wouldn't mix on a 16 beat chorus or bridge (or adjust accordingly if you did) - again you wouldn't mix vocals on vocals - so even if the 32 beat rule is broken - you still need to know the music (mix on hook?)

If the tune you are bringing in has a 8 beat intro then you'd drop it on the 24 so it will fall on the 1. Again Its knowing the music. With DJ intro/8b from record pools - if you start mixing on the hook then chances are your mix will come out right...

When i first started i had a LOT of trouble mixing De La Soul - Keeping the faith.

I thought everything was supposed to start on the 1. That whistle starts on the 1 and a half kinda.

DING DING DING!!! ...And we have a winner!!!

: )

pretty much. You have to assume most DJ's dont care.

I think it's more accurate to say that almost all DANCE music is based on a 32 beat rule. There's plenty of music that's not and that's not even counting all the non 4/4 time signature music out there.



that's the problem i have tho there's plenty of songs that don't conform to this - maybe not a majority (hence the term "non-standard"), but there's plenty that don't and there's many that include extra bars and the like - especially in a lot of modern pop.

Hell look at a song like Billie Jean - that's utilizing a 12-bar phrasing as opposed to an 8 bar phrasing. So if you want the best transition with an 8 bar intro, you need to mix 4 bars into the chorus.

How about Beyonce, Crazy in Love - after the first 8 bar chrorus, there's an additional 4-bar bit before the songs goes back into verse.

There's plenty more examples of it out there...

incidentally, both those are some of the biggest pop songs out there in the last couple of decades and right there you see it doesn't conform to a standard 32-beat/8-bar phrase.

can anyone tell me whats off on lil waynes 6'7 song, the chorus seems shorter but the way i mix ive never taken the oppritunity to figure it out

so you are saying 8 bars right. which could be any variation of that i.e. 4,8,16,32 bars.

yeah, its surprising that people dont have a clue what you are talking about, but then again its not really.

when you do it right and people notice(usually young djs) its like you worked some kind of magic. i think people with music backgrounds get it, others not so much.

it is really THE key to getting a flow with house/edm music. not so much with hip hop, unless you want to do lots of blends.

I actually find it's a little easier with EDM/house since most of it does follow a straight 8 or 16 bar phrasing. Most of of it is pretty much designed to be mixed for long stretches of time.

there are, of course a handful of tunes that introduce a couple of extra bars here or there tho and it definitely bothers me when DJs can't hear that these extra bars exist and throw the whole phrasing of the mix off...

it's like all these tunes that fit together like lego have made it so that DJs think they don't even need to count anymore...

it def happens to me on occasion, i get lazy. also, i get so much more music than i used too, its hard to know it as well as i did, when i wasnt bringing 50-100 records instead of 10k songs

Classic thread.

this is count out for these new guys. I even tell them when to drop it in and they still dont fukin listen

I would just scratch in the "Aiight" part in the beginning and let it drop in like that

This is where I could use some help. I currently use Mixed In Key, but I am still struggling with knowing when two songs are in key or not, like when I switch to vinyl, Mixed in Key can't help me. What is the best way to develop an "ear" for the key of a song? Any suggestions... I primarily mix Soulful/Deep House.

I dont even use mixed in key. I just trust my ears and other Djs tell me my mixes are in key.

if the two tracks sound "off" even though they're beatmatched, then it's probably because it's out of key.

try this little exercise:

take some sort of melodic track where you have both the instrumental and the acapella and mix them on your decks in a live blend. Now, pitch both up to like +5 pitch.

Now lock the pitch on one side and not the other. The song will just sound off - that's called a key-clash.

Mess around with that and you'll be able to hear it...

Other things you can do is when you're auditioning your tracks before you bring them in, just skip ahead to the meat of the track and match it in your headphones and make sure it doesn't sound too off before you actually bring in the mix...

yea, back in vinyl days I used to get so stoked when I found that perfect complimentary key mix between 2 records... nowadays it's not as amazing with tools like key lock and mixed in key...

That said, mixed in key is never 100% accurate so people should still be using their ears...

Congrats on your choice of music...

Some people have a natural gift of key while some are "tone deaf" like me. The two things I noticed if I haven't "keyed" the tracks yet is "energy" and "Arrangement".

Sometimes in cue/headphones, I'll mix a little bit of the main parts of the song on top of each other and see how bad it sounds (melodies should compliment not clash). If they clash/sound bad, or take the song "down" I may pick another track. If I really want to play the song, i see if I can do a drum break mix.

Cool thing with deep House, you can ride it for at least 32+32 or more and let one track build while the other breaks down. Drum break comes in while you mix on the harmony/melody of the outgoing song, it breaks down to outro drums and incoming song is now adding bassline or melody so key isn't much of a issue - just watch the "energy".

The intro/breaks on a lot of the stuff that you buy from traxsource is at least 32+32+32 so the key (no mixed in) is hitting the drums and breaks right - key (of song) becomes less important.

Thanks for the input everyone...yeah, I do use the 32 bar drums to bring in the next track. My biggest concern has been the energy of the mix and I would like to get more creative with my mixes, by overlaying melodies or using accapellas from other tracks to lay on top of dub mixes and instrumentals. This is where I fear that the key clashing will do me in.

I just turn on Pandora and let it do the mixing for me and get paid $100 an hour.

I think some people take the "key" mixing a bit far. I prefer to work on what keeps the flow of energy and dance floor.
If I have track A playing and track B is the right one to mix for the key but the wrong one to mix for holding the energy of the previous track but track C is the wrong key and the right choice to keep the floor, i'll pick C and that could happen quite a lot in a night, it's how you move from each to the other and your timing.
Obviously you don't want to try and blend 2 track in the wrong key unless you're using percussion sections (best way) or just cut it in, either way track C is going on and there is always a way to get it on without making it sound like a dogs dinner.
I'd rather keep the floor moving and than comprimise it just for a good key mix.

Learning by your own mistakes is the best way to learn, if somethings wrong and you know it's wrong then you've taken another step up the ladder.

^ understood--no reason to focus on what you think you're supposed to be doing from a detached technical perspective instead of pleasing the crowd--but if you can consistently get phrasing, key matching, and "right for the floor" all down at once it's borderline magical.

I used to mix the hard way with a bunch of loops and effects but when I got phrasing down its so easy its almost a crime! the songs basically mix themselves just throw in the intro to a track over a chorus (each for about 32 beats) take out the lows on track A and echo it out after the end of the chorus when track B takes over.

that's why I say that you should worry more about avoiding blatant key clashes than being concerned with making sure everything is always in key. Some keys compliment each other better than others, but just don't ride out a mix that is obviously out of key.

And if you can't hear when a mix is obviously out of key, and worse off, if you try to make a mashup that's obviously out of key, you should just quit music altogether.

just make sure you count properly.

not every chorus, intro, outro, etc. is going to be a full 8 bars.

+1