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My unbiased TRAKTOR 2 Review....
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My unbiased TRAKTOR 2 Review....

DjWoody 7:14 AM - 1 April, 2011
::: TOOLS :::
Traktor 2
Audio 8 Soundcard
Pioneer DJM800 Mixer (I used all 4 channels at once)
Kontrol X1
2 Pioneer CDJ 800's.

-----------------

Whoa! Time fly’s. I spent the whole night messing with the new Traktor 2. Here's my unbiased review.

Traktor 2 is a MONSTER!!!! Straight out, it's a whole different ballgame now and Traktor is now on a whole different league!

Like anything else in life, there's always something that stands out above the rest. In Traktor's case it's the new Sample Decks! These are the SP6 on steroids! You can have up to 4 samples per deck at once, that's 16 decks playing at once! I fucken loved them! You can use the sample decks to trigger drops and loops. But if you're using the sample decks to just trigger your drops, you're not taking full advantage of them.

Think of the sample decks as Ableton Clips inside Traktor!!! Yeap! You can load 32 beat loops in each deck and have them be perfectly synced in time with whatever track you’re playing live. I loaded a bunch of stems (kicks, leads, bass, percs, etc) into them and remixed on the fly. That was awesome!!!! I also replicated the DJM 900's noise effect using my DJM800. I loaded a white noise loop into a sample deck, applied a filter and phaser from the DJM800 and used the knobs on the mixer to control the timing. WORKED LIKE A CHARM!!! Or, I could've just used Traktor's built in White Noise effect, but that would've been no fun! hahaha

I downloaded the demo before shelling out $79 for the upgrade. The only limitation is that it's a timed demo, so it only works for 30 min. The new default Traktor interface has been streamlined and they've taken away a lot of the extra features to make the interface very clean. I can tell they did this to appeal to the Serato users. Traktor is completely configurable, so you can add all the bells and whistles, as you like.

Installing Traktor was a breeze. I had to download the new Service Center, and after that it was a piece of cake. They added a new Setup Wizard, so when you launch it for the first time, it asks you a bunch of questions and depending on your answers, Traktor is configured for you. That was cool, cuz once you follow it, and you really don't need to dig into the preferences unless you want more advance features. However, if you're not that technically inclined, Traktor might still be confusing to you. It's a give and take. Do you want to take your sets to a whole new level using the latest Traktor Technology? Or do you want to sound like every other dime per dozen DJ?

The new waveforms rock!!! They are VERY VERY detailed. I like them a lot. It seams like NI upgraded their algorithm cuz all my tracks were gridded properly. This is crucial because if you want your loops to work seamlessly, you need to have the tracks warped correctly.
Toby82 9:20 AM - 1 April, 2011
Now i am very exited about Serato's answer to this. Sounds very good so far. We'll have to see how stable the Traktor SW is in real life situations and longer use but i'll definately have a close look to Traktor (Scratch Pro) 2 now... I will have to have a look at the Controllers for Traktor

I also will have a closer look at the DDJ S1, as this sounds very good to me too. But the first reports about Itch 1.8 also imply serato has some stability issues, so i'll also follow up on this...

Currently i'm looking for a smaller and more easy setup to use at home without having a full DJ Booth at home... I'm exited to hear about all the news from Musikmesse :-)
Billy18bm 12:42 PM - 1 April, 2011
i don't understand why everyone expects serato to "answer" to traktor. They are different products. I'm happy with serato
RogerRabbit 12:53 PM - 1 April, 2011
Quote:
i don't understand why everyone expects serato to "answer" to traktor. They are different products. I'm happy with serato

Because a growing number serato customers have been noticing tracktor and liking it..
dj_soo 6:35 PM - 1 April, 2011
this kind of functionality was what I was expecting from the Bridge in the first place.

I don't care about launching pre-made clips and projects, give me the robust live-looping features available in ableton and make it simple and accessible in Scratchlive.

shame that traktor beat them to it...
DjWoody 6:39 PM - 1 April, 2011
Yeap! That live looping into a sample deck is awesome and so simple to use. All you need to do is create a loop live, and drag it to a sample deck. Done! It frees up a deck and it's synced in time with everything else. Each sample deck has individual volume knobs which I'm assuming can be midi mapped.
skinnyguy 7:05 PM - 1 April, 2011
how is traktor a different product from scratchlive?
skinnyguy 7:06 PM - 1 April, 2011
Quote:
Yeap! That live looping into a sample deck is awesome and so simple to use. All you need to do is create a loop live, and drag it to a sample deck. Done! It frees up a deck and it's synced in time with everything else. Each sample deck has individual volume knobs which I'm assuming can be midi mapped.



and i thought you could already do this in ssl? minus the sync...
DjWoody 7:17 PM - 1 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Yeap! That live looping into a sample deck is awesome and so simple to use. All you need to do is create a loop live, and drag it to a sample deck. Done! It frees up a deck and it's synced in time with everything else. Each sample deck has individual volume knobs which I'm assuming can be midi mapped.



and i thought you could already do this in ssl? minus the sync...


You can, but the sync makes a huge difference.
Dj Ace 8:13 PM - 1 April, 2011
soon...
Dj JesC 10:56 PM - 1 April, 2011
thanks for the info Woody, I cant wait to take TSP2 for a spin. I have a simlar setup to yours, but i have a DJM-700.

Question for Woody, have you tried the Soft Sync feat?
DJBIGWIZ 11:34 PM - 1 April, 2011
sounds dope... I can't wait for Serato to step up and release their "answer" to this.
Evon 12:45 AM - 2 April, 2011
Quote:

and i thought you could already do this in ssl? minus the sync...


Whats the point having it without sync. Sp6 in Serato is pretty useless. Noone are using it except throwing in some shitty airhorns.
feels like having a car without wheels.
DJSHARK 12:59 AM - 2 April, 2011
Quote:
i don't understand why everyone expects serato to "answer" to traktor. They are different products. I'm happy with serato


AMEN I love serato and hope it doesnt change like crazy
DJBIGWIZ 1:33 AM - 2 April, 2011
Quote:
i don't understand why everyone expects serato to "answer" to traktor. They are different products. I'm happy with serato

I don't really think the "answer" is really to traktor as much as it is to what's next for SSl & VSL. There a lot of features and improvements that people want to see.
I'm happy with SSL also but that doesn't mean I can't be happier with it. Things can always improve and grow with the times.... if not, there would't even be SSL or Traktor.
You can't honestly be content with them just stopping development and improvement on the product... that would be ridiculous.
With that said... I can't wait for the "answer" to what's next... regardless of who the answer is directed at.
Evon 1:37 AM - 2 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


i don't understand why everyone expects serato to "answer" to traktor. They are different products. I'm happy with serato


AMEN I love serato and hope it doesnt change like crazy


The market situation with two leading companies like Serato and NI, they have to answer to whatever move the competition is doing.

en.wikipedia.org

In order to survive they must change. DVS is not the future of DJing. Midi controllers are, or a combination of both (like the s4 model) I´ve seen around clubs they usually always have Pioneer cdjs and a mixer, but more and more often I see djs bringing their S4 instead of using the club mixer and cdjs. And now with TP2 you can hook up the club cdjs if you prefer to use it with dvs.
NS6 Is in my opinion a step in the right direction, but you still can´t use dvs with itch.
DjWoody 1:38 AM - 2 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


i don't understand why everyone expects serato to "answer" to traktor. They are different products. I'm happy with serato

I don't really think the "answer" is really to traktor as much as it is to what's next for SSl & VSL. There a lot of features and improvements that people want to see.
I'm happy with SSL also but that doesn't mean I can't be happier with it. Things can always improve and grow with the times.... if not, there would't even be SSL or Traktor.
You can't honestly be content with them just stopping development and improvement on the product... that would be ridiculous.
With that said... I can't wait for the "answer" to what's next... regardless of who the answer is directed at.


Spot on!
Dj Ace 2:07 AM - 2 April, 2011
well said
skinnyguy 11:01 AM - 2 April, 2011
i'm not sayin the sync is bad. i'm for it. i was just sayin that it's not present.
DJ GOOK 1:10 PM - 2 April, 2011
what about its stability. All the new bells and whistles means nothing if it ain't stable.
Caliber 1:23 PM - 2 April, 2011
i have been testing for hrs and so far so good. My only problem is I haven't use Traktor in a while and analyzing takes forever. I didnt get any drop out so far at the, running all effects, sample decks and regular decks, with timecode control also been surfing the net just for a lil extra stress and been good so far.
djmarvel 2:35 PM - 2 April, 2011
where are you guys djing at that people are bring in controllers and not using decks or cdjs???

i travel and i dont see this trend, it must be a newer dj thing
DjWoody 4:22 PM - 2 April, 2011
Quote:
what about its stability. All the new bells and whistles means nothing if it ain't stable.


Very stable so far. I think NI learned it's lesson from the Final Scratch days and stability is at the top on their list.
DjWoody 4:26 PM - 2 April, 2011
Quote:
where are you guys djing at that people are bring in controllers and not using decks or cdjs???

i travel and i dont see this trend, it must be a newer dj thing


One of my DJ's uses a Pioneer MEP 7000 controller with Virtual DJ, and I use CDJ's with Serato and a 57 Mixer. On a side note since DJ GOOK brought up stability, on the 5 years I've been playing at my club, not once have I seen the other DJ's Virtual DJ crash or give him problems. On the other hand, Serato has crashed quite a few times on me and on the other DJ's. That's the main reason why I'm still using 1.9.2, cuz it works great!!!
ninjaty 4:42 PM - 2 April, 2011
The sample decks of Traktor are far from perfect. So far as I can tell, if you drag a loop from a deck with the keylock on, it looses the keylock and pitches the sample. While it is good for premade loops and samples. Its worthless for grabbing samples right out of tracks to keep a loop going and free up a deck.

I feel this is a major let down and if Serato is considering an "answer" details like this are the difference between a feature that really works and one that looks good on paper. Take advantage of being second and see what people like and dislike about the competition's product. If they need sync to make it work then why make it without sync. If they need keylock, put it in there. Get ahead in stead of playing catchup.
ninjaty 4:56 PM - 2 April, 2011
Oh and if Serato wants to stay the product for the DVS only market fine but if they see the future of controller djing being part of their market...then major improvments to midi mapping and feedback are necessary. It really is one of Serato's major limiting factors.

I'm still holding on to my less and less used Serato box waiting for you guys to get it together. I really want see you win. I used to feel it was a split between Traktor=European/EDM djs and serato=hip hop/turntablist. Like the people pushing the limits were on Serato and the people just playing songs were on Trakto but now its like all the turntablist/performers use Traktor on some next level and Serato is becoming a Club/top 40/mobile dj brand.
thebuttonfreak 5:03 PM - 2 April, 2011
I've noticed most of my stateside EDM friends have jumped ship and now use Traktor.
ninjaty 5:35 PM - 2 April, 2011
I have a friend who is a hip hop dj and has a purist mentality. Refused to go to a digital system forever. I never could sell him on the idea. About a month ago he hits me up to ask about Traktor vs Serato(I have and use both). I was like look, for you I think Serato would be the better choice, it will most closely translate from real vinyl and since I know the kind of guy you are bla bla bla. He was like no I think I want Traktor because I want to be able to do all that____whatever he'd seen in a shiftee video. I was floored. This vinyl purist guy was about to jump straight to embracing controllerism and syncing.

I asked him why the change of heart and he said something interesting. He said he always stuck to real vinyl because he didn't see digital adding anything but convenience. He said he was afraid to give up lugging his vinyl and all that went with it. That was who he was as dj and if he gave that up for laziness then he might stop being the vinyl loving/collecting guy that he was. BUT he said now he saw the digital systems actually adding elements that were leaps and bounds above what he could do and he had been inspired once again like when he found djing for the first time.

He bought Traktor.
kryptonitednb 6:47 PM - 2 April, 2011
Quote:
I've noticed most of my stateside EDM friends have jumped ship and now use Traktor.


Where do you live??! I haven't seen this in ATL at all.
thebuttonfreak 7:01 PM - 2 April, 2011
I'm in New Mexico now, but I know this is true in Texas, Illinois too.
J0be 7:32 PM - 2 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


i don't understand why everyone expects serato to "answer" to traktor. They are different products. I'm happy with serato

Because a growing number serato customers have been noticing tracktor and liking it..


Like me for example. I'm ready to jump ship on the next pay day. Traktor is next level these days.
dj_soo 7:56 PM - 2 April, 2011
I'm considering selling my SL3 for TS2 I already have a 57 and a vci300 and the SL3 easily gets the least amount of use for me and is more for backup than anything else...
DJ_Phenom 8:18 PM - 2 April, 2011
Quote:
I'm in New Mexico now, but I know this is true in Texas, Illinois too.


This is definitely not true in texas, I spin in Austin weekly and have spun in dallas and san antonio as well. Only seen one guy using traktor and that was a hip hop guy 3 yrs ago...
djmarvel 12:41 AM - 3 April, 2011
yeah i just moved from texas and i havent seen anyone in a major club using traktor, i play in chicago alot and its the same thing.

same with where i live now in florida
ekwipt 1:51 AM - 3 April, 2011
Quote:
The sample decks of Traktor are far from perfect. So far as I can tell, if you drag a loop from a deck with the keylock on, it looses the keylock and pitches the sample. While it is good for premade loops and samples. Its worthless for grabbing samples right out of tracks to keep a loop going and free up a deck.

I feel this is a major let down and if Serato is considering an "answer" details like this are the difference between a feature that really works and one that looks good on paper. Take advantage of being second and see what people like and dislike about the competition's product. If they need sync to make it work then why make it without sync. If they need keylock, put it in there. Get ahead in stead of playing catchup.


I'm waiting for the TSP2 hardware upgrade to become available, looking forward to it.

Thing with key lock is it takes up CPU, I think if they programmed the sample slots for key lock, some systems wouldn't be able to handle it and then you get people complaining about audio drop outs etc.

It's probably a trade off they've thought about, may implement in future updates but wouldn't be holding breath.

It's probably a good question for the TOTR forum sessions.

I think the biggest drawback and FAiL with T2 is the no HID implementation of the new CDJs. I mean WTF? Serato has had it for what a year now. I'm really hoping the DJM-T1 is a new 909 and they'll announce a stronger hardware partnership with Pioneer including HID
JD 2:35 AM - 3 April, 2011
So I took a nice go at it today... I have Traktor Scratch Pro and a S4.. today I used 1200s with the S4... Nice way of using it.. but having a mixer that big is sort of a pain... but its great to have all the midi control all in front of you on one unit...

Traktor Scratch Pro with 2 turntables/mixer and an X1 is where the program shines. Sounds great, great sample decks, beautiful GUI and waveforms. Their effects are the best. NI did a great job.. .
JD 2:36 AM - 3 April, 2011
Next will be the Pioneer 909 update with Traktor in it... thats my prediction ;)
Joshua Carl 11:41 PM - 3 April, 2011
While I dont see many of our local guys on it... more of them have commented
on how impressive its starting to look though...
and I played with Skribble a few weeks back, who rolls with a "live remix style" setup
and he was doing some nice stuff on that rig with Traktor.
for a 2 hour set it was solid.
RogerRabbit 1:17 AM - 4 April, 2011
Quote:
Next will be the Pioneer 909 update with Traktor in it... thats my prediction ;)

I may trade in my 56s - if it is...
Spinz4life 1:21 AM - 4 April, 2011
www.facebook.com

Nice!!!
Reece Duncan 5:24 PM - 6 April, 2011
I've just sold my SL3 to move to Traktor SP2
And i would never have even considered it before! I was Serato to the death!
DJ GOOK 8:51 PM - 6 April, 2011
^^ Oh Boy!
Mr. Goodkat 8:54 PM - 6 April, 2011
i see alot of the younger edm guys using traktor in texas. most of the established guys have been using serato for a long time. im gonna give it a chance. and im old
skinnyguy 9:11 PM - 6 April, 2011
scratchlive is for "old school" dj's. traktor is the new hawtness. =P
Rob Pointer 9:12 PM - 6 April, 2011
barf.

lol
thebuttonfreak 9:21 PM - 6 April, 2011
This was very true in texas up until recently. My last few visits there have surprised me in that many of the people I knew to be Serato loyalists have moved to traktor.

Quote:
i see alot of the younger edm guys using traktor in texas. most of the established guys have been using serato for a long time. im gonna give it a chance. and im old
Mr. Goodkat 10:12 PM - 6 April, 2011
yeah, im seeing that. its hard to change for me, just because i can troubleshoot any situation and i know the prog. so well.
DJ_Phenom 10:46 PM - 6 April, 2011
Quote:
This was very true in texas up until recently. My last few visits there have surprised me in that many of the people I knew to be Serato loyalists have moved to traktor.

Quote:


i see alot of the younger edm guys using traktor in texas. most of the established guys have been using serato for a long time. im gonna give it a chance. and im old


maybe it is in the dance scene, but every working club dj i know in texas uses serato. i have met 2 older guys who use vdj in a couple small bars, not knockin traktor just dont know anyone who uses it.
Evon 12:59 PM - 7 April, 2011


maybe it is in the dance scene, but every working club dj i know in texas uses serato. i have met 2 older guys who use vdj in a couple small bars, not knockin traktor just dont know anyone who uses it.

In Europe its a different story.
I downloaded tp2 and used a audi 2 card and my controll x1 with it yesterday. I must say I love the simplisity that Serato has over Traktor. But I love the sampledeck/looprecorder and sync funktions. The grid setting in Traktor always seems to be spot on. All you need is to analyze your tracks.
I instantly fell in love with the sampledeck/looprecorder. Its like a more intrigrated mini bridge with integrated library and no need for warping.
DJ BIS 1:20 PM - 7 April, 2011
Does the demo let you restart multiple 30 minute sessions or ONLY 30 minutes and done, you can't play anymore?
thebuttonfreak 1:37 PM - 7 April, 2011
multiples
Rebelguy 2:43 PM - 7 April, 2011
Maybe so many people switched recently because of the 50% special they had. That was an incredible deal on their part.
Evon 2:57 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
Does the demo let you restart multiple 30 minute sessions or ONLY 30 minutes and done, you can't play anymore?


Yep you can only play 30mins sessions in the demo and you have to restart. Enough to give you a taste.
sixxx 3:00 PM - 7 April, 2011
lmao @ unbiased review from Woody who is obviously a Traktor fanboy.


PS. None of this stuff really matters to those of us who mix videos.
snob dee-jays 3:33 PM - 7 April, 2011
is there such thing as a traktor/NI forum?
would i troll all day there to talk about SSL?
Dj-M.Bezzle 3:37 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
is there such thing as a traktor/NI forum?
would i troll all day there to talk about SSL?



there is but you wouldnt be able to troll it, they keep that forum on LOCK
Joshua Carl 3:47 PM - 7 April, 2011
keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

healthy competition and knowledge of other products is a good thing.
Rebelguy 3:56 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:


PS. None of this stuff really matters to those of us who mix videos.


True but there is a section for Itch on these forums and you can't mix video on it as well.
da professa 6:02 PM - 7 April, 2011
I was hooked up with Traktor Pro 2 last month. I have been a Serato guy only for years. My system in almost identical to yours Woody, except I have an Audio 2 and a VMS4. I have been running both VDJ and Traktor Pro 2 and have been very pleased with it.

IMHO: the Bottom Line is to be aware of and embrace software that can make your set sound better. This "serato only" or "not in my city" observation need to change...or the profession will expand without you. No disrespect intended towards anyone
nik39 7:25 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

healthy competition and knowledge of other products is a good thing.

Word.

And saying Woody is a troll is really uncalled! he is definitly not trolling IMHO. Its always good to know what else is going on in the market.
DJ Jonasty 7:34 PM - 7 April, 2011
I've been testing it out since release. I only have tp2 w no time code. I'm finding it hard to mix anything but beat port tracks. The native control w
My cdjs is not very good. I love the concept but have to make it sound good. It took 3 days to analyze my collection. No multicore support for track analysis. But the audio 8 works with my mbp. My sl3 gives me a kernel panic and crashes so I just use the old laptop till serato releases new drivers.
DJ Jonasty 7:35 PM - 7 April, 2011
I think it would be sweet if it worked but no luck yet. Ssl keeps me happy.
the_black_one 8:19 PM - 7 April, 2011
woody is a cat from cali that has been on SL for a wile. He makes love to dance music and pioneer products (not a knock and nothing wrong with it). The man just wanted to check out other ways to express himself. I see nothing wrong with it. I dont think he is trolling at all.
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:29 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
woody is a cat from cali that has been on SL for a wile. He makes love to dance music and pioneer products (not a knock and nothing wrong with it). The man just wanted to check out other ways to express himself. I see nothing wrong with it. I dont think he is trolling at all.



+1 woodys cool....biased but cool
sixxx 8:50 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:




PS. None of this stuff really matters to those of us who mix videos.


True but there is a section for Itch on these forums and you can't mix video on it as well.



Correct. None of that matters either. Your point?
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:51 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Quote:





PS. None of this stuff really matters to those of us who mix videos.


True but there is a section for Itch on these forums and you can't mix video on it as well.



Correct. None of that matters either. Your point?



LOL!!!
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:52 PM - 7 April, 2011
sixxx, theres a comic book forum i hang out on that you cant mix video on...just so you know
sixxx 8:54 PM - 7 April, 2011
lmao
snob dee-jays 9:25 PM - 7 April, 2011
not saying he's trolling.
good review imo.
just got fed up with al the ppl claiming that SSL is losing ground to traktor.
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:31 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
just got fed up with al the ppl claiming that SSL is losing ground to traktor.


it is a pointless argument because theyll keep saying that until serato releases something new then theyll diss traktor and so on and so on
RogerRabbit 9:31 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:

just got fed up with al the ppl claiming that SSL is losing ground to traktor.

But it's the truth - Ssl IS losing ground to traktor!!!
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:32 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


just got fed up with al the ppl claiming that SSL is losing ground to traktor.

But it's the truth - Ssl IS losing ground to traktor!!!



its a marathon not a spring
RogerRabbit 9:42 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:

Quote:

just got fed up with al the ppl claiming that SSL is losing ground to traktor.

But it's the truth - Ssl IS losing ground to traktor!!!



its a marathon not a spring

NI brand acceptance has improved dramatically - and that's all that matters..
Joshua Carl 9:44 PM - 7 April, 2011
imagine if i didnt try the rane tt52mojo that day...
I was Die Hard Vestax. 06 for life!

I probably wouldnt be here today.

so, blame vestax, sorry bout that.
valdini 10:18 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
lmao @ unbiased review from Woody who is obviously a Traktor fanboy.


PS. None of this stuff really matters to those of us who mix videos.

*****************
Does anyone mix videos outside of the US - serious question?

I play some good spots with some of the biggest names in the game passing through and exactly 0% of warm up / headline djs use video.

Is Video just an extension of Top 40... instant gratification scenario ?

K
Serato, Support
ChrisD 10:19 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
Does anyone mix videos outside of the US - serious question?

This guy does: serato.com
dj_soo 10:54 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Does anyone mix videos outside of the US - serious question?

This guy does: serato.com


cheeba posts on here pretty regularly: www.djcheeba.com
DJ BIS 11:05 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Quote:




just got fed up with al the ppl claiming that SSL is losing ground to traktor.

But it's the truth - Ssl IS losing ground to traktor!!!



its a marathon not a spring



Amen brother. Everybody needs to shine at some point or another.
djperry 11:26 PM - 7 April, 2011
I can't stand horizontal wave forms. Not sure if Traktor does verticals, but I haven't seen it.
StreetFighta 11:57 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
I can't stand horizontal wave forms. Not sure if Traktor does verticals, but I haven't seen it.


nah, traktor is only horizontal.

I can't stand vertical waveforms
DJ Sniffles 12:30 AM - 8 April, 2011
Been fucking with Traktor all week. STILL analyzing my collection. That's probably my biggest gripe is converting the library. Beatslicer and auto-bouncer are my two best friends.
jevo9 8:33 AM - 8 April, 2011
bunch a ship jumpers...............................................................
......lol jk
serato is serato and traktor is traktor.
Daktyl 8:52 AM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:
I can't stand horizontal wave forms. Not sure if Traktor does verticals, but I haven't seen it.

see, i like the horizontal waveforms, cuz it's what I'm used to seeing in pro tools and other DAWs
StreetFighta 8:56 AM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:

see, i like the horizontal waveforms, cuz it's what I'm used to seeing in pro tools and other DAWs


and pretty much anything that EVER had a waveform. how many other instances of vertical scrolling waveforms are there anyway?
Daktyl 9:10 AM - 8 April, 2011
very true... pretty much every graphic representation of a sine wave (sound or otherwise) plots amplitude on the vertical axis and time on the horizontal axis.
e.rich 10:56 AM - 8 April, 2011
I'm too busy working on perfecting my craft to care. They both play songs. If I'm unable to entertain my crowd I doubt it matters if I'm using either software. I guarantee that for 99% of us it's not the program that's holding us back. 73 auto synced decks of shit perfectly in time is still shit. Even with 21 different layers of effects on top of it. Pushing the industry is good. Quality performance is better.
djcrap 4:45 PM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:



just got fed up with al the ppl claiming that SSL is losing ground to traktor.

But it's the truth - Ssl IS losing ground to traktor!!!


unlessf traktor does video like ssl i don't see how ssl is losing ground on traktor
Rob Pointer 4:49 PM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:
I'm too busy working on perfecting my craft to care. They both play songs. If I'm unable to entertain my crowd I doubt it matters if I'm using either software. I guarantee that for 99% of us it's not the program that's holding us back. 73 auto synced decks of shit perfectly in time is still shit. Even with 21 different layers of effects on top of it. Pushing the industry is good. Quality performance is better.


+1,000,000
Dj-M.Bezzle 4:55 PM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Quote:




just got fed up with al the ppl claiming that SSL is losing ground to traktor.

But it's the truth - Ssl IS losing ground to traktor!!!


unlessf traktor does video like ssl i don't see how ssl is losing ground on traktor



your right......its inklen their losing ground to there lol
DJ Jonasty 5:06 PM - 8 April, 2011
I dj so bad I can't beatmatch with traktor
DJWALDO 5:14 PM - 8 April, 2011
syncing 32 billion sample decks together just allows for you to play all the bangers at the same time on beat while you stand back and tiesto pose while fist pumping and checking your blow out in the mirror....
StreetFighta 6:17 PM - 8 April, 2011
I still think a lot of you are overestimating the amount of video djs. I know that in some places they are ubiquitous, but they AREN'T in a lot more.
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:43 PM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:
I still think a lot of you are overestimating the amount of video djs. I know that in some places they are ubiquitous, but they AREN'T in a lot more.




I know one thing though, there may be ALOT more audio DJs than video DJs but i know in most places ive been the video djs are playing MUCH better spots and getting paid ALOT more than the audio only djs
StreetFighta 6:52 PM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


I still think a lot of you are overestimating the amount of video djs. I know that in some places they are ubiquitous, but they AREN'T in a lot more.




I know one thing though, there may be ALOT more audio DJs than video DJs but i know in most places ive been the video djs are playing MUCH better spots and getting paid ALOT more than the audio only djs


I'm sure, and that's one of the reasons i switched to serato. The option of doing video. I was just speaking big pictue, meaning that video, on the whole isn't as big of a deal as some people make it seem.
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:56 PM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Quote:



I still think a lot of you are overestimating the amount of video djs. I know that in some places they are ubiquitous, but they AREN'T in a lot more.




I know one thing though, there may be ALOT more audio DJs than video DJs but i know in most places ive been the video djs are playing MUCH better spots and getting paid ALOT more than the audio only djs


I'm sure, and that's one of the reasons i switched to serato. The option of doing video. I was just speaking big pictue, meaning that video, on the whole isn't as big of a deal as some people make it seem.



I dont think anyones trying to make it a big deal on its own, but most of us realise that there are a billion DJs out there and you need to distinguish yourself and video is a good way to do that, and thats where alot of the big money is. So competing DVS can do whatever they want if they dont offer a feature that yuo can use to distinguish yourself and get the big money gigs then we arent worried about them


Though the day mixed emergency opens up to traktor..........
RogerRabbit 8:02 PM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:

Quote:

just got fed up with al the ppl claiming that SSL is losing ground to traktor.

But it's the truth - Ssl IS losing ground to traktor!!!


unlessf traktor does video like ssl i don't see how ssl is losing ground on traktor

I have a feeling it's coming.. I think they may not want to just bring video, they want to bring a better vid product than serato..
Rebelguy 8:39 PM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:

I dont think anyones trying to make it a big deal on its own, but most of us realise that there are a billion DJs out there and you need to distinguish yourself and video is a good way to do that, and thats where alot of the big money is.



Where is this big money? I know a lot of VJs have had to cut their rates. A lot of big name VJs aren't getting what they used to get or what they say they are getting.
Rob Pointer 8:53 PM - 8 April, 2011
I might try to do video when it comes out for itch. that would be pretty cool to do with my EDM sets.

Kinda like a Plastikman or Ritchie Hawtin jr. lol
DjWoody 9:09 PM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:

I have a feeling it's coming.. I think they may not want to just bring video, they want to bring a better vid product than serato..


That's the same way I feel.
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:28 PM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


I have a feeling it's coming.. I think they may not want to just bring video, they want to bring a better vid product than serato..


That's the same way I feel.



acutually if they want to bring a video product to the market seratos not the one to beat, mix emergency is, their best bet would be to open up their code to the mix emergency program as it works off 3rd party input and blows VSL out of the water
DjWoody 10:10 PM - 8 April, 2011
Actually, what I'm thinking is more in the lines of a hybrid system between Mix Emergency & Modul8. That way the EDM DJ's can do their own visuals.
Rebelguy 10:13 PM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:

acutually if they want to bring a video product to the market seratos not the one to beat, mix emergency is, their best bet would be to open up their code to the mix emergency program as it works off 3rd party input and blows VSL out of the water


The one thing to remember though is that the guy who created Mix Emergency worked at Serato so I am sure the programming aspect of things was easier then if he had to start from scratch with NI.

It would be cool though.
Joshua Carl 10:30 PM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:
Actually, what I'm thinking is more in the lines of a hybrid system between Mix Emergency & Modul8. That way the EDM DJ's can do their own visuals.


thats closer than you think...

oooops, ive said too much.
echa1945mf 11:45 PM - 8 April, 2011
even with the new T2 im still a serato loyalist

just bought 2 Rane68 and a TTM57SL for a new club im opening and next year will order 4 more rane68 and 2 more TTM57SL for another club im opening (chad or anyone from rane can contact Goshen Electronics as rane supplier in indonesia and ask who am i incase you guys think im bulshitting) ,

i do bought a DJM 2000 as a spare incase some of our guest DJ's dont prefer rane (yes some of them are) ,

all the club im managing are serato ready and on rane's , hopefully seeing that lot of us is a loyalist serato can step up their game and boost up the SP6 to at least goes in sync with the tracks , love how stabil serato is and wont see me crossing over anytime soon


love


daffy duck
blackavenger 11:56 PM - 8 April, 2011
Quote:
hopefully seeing that lot of us is a loyalist serato can step up their game and boost up the SP6 to at least goes in sync with the tracks


AMEN!!
Mr. Goodkat 11:57 PM - 8 April, 2011
i have seen a lot of suspect(skills wise) djs switch to traktor or run traktor. people that couldnt beatmatch with serato or cds or whatever, now instantly can beatmatch. not mad at it, just sayin.
blackavenger 12:00 AM - 9 April, 2011
Quote:
i have seen a lot of suspect(skills wise) djs switch to traktor or run traktor. people that couldnt beatmatch with serato or cds or whatever, now instantly can beatmatch. not mad at it, just sayin.


This is why I PRAY Serato NEVER implement Deck Sync w' ScratchLIVE! Though, they can, and should add Sync to the SP-6!! They should add it to both platforms, ITCH included!
RogerRabbit 12:05 AM - 9 April, 2011
Quote:
i have seen a lot of suspect(skills wise) djs switch to traktor or run traktor. people that couldnt beatmatch with serato or cds or whatever, now instantly can beatmatch. not mad at it, just sayin.

You have bpm readout and waveforms on the screen - so it's not like if your using ssl it is really all skill...
blackavenger 12:08 AM - 9 April, 2011
Quote:
You have bpm readout and waveforms on the screen - so it's not like if your using ssl it is really all skill...


It depends on whether you have your eyes glued to the screen or not.
RogerRabbit 12:08 AM - 9 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


i have seen a lot of suspect(skills wise) djs switch to traktor or run traktor. people that couldnt beatmatch with serato or cds or whatever, now instantly can beatmatch. not mad at it, just sayin.


This is why I PRAY Serato NEVER implement Deck Sync w' ScratchLIVE! Though, they can, and should add Sync to the SP-6!! They should add it to both platforms, ITCH included!

Why not sync your own samples - if syncing is sooo taboo?
blackavenger 12:10 AM - 9 April, 2011
Quote:
Why not sync your own samples - if syncing is sooo taboo?



huh?
dj_soo 12:11 AM - 9 April, 2011
you can just use a midi controller and an SL3 or SL4, map a slider to the pitch control and manually beatmatch the SP-6 samples like a real man.
the_black_one 12:12 AM - 9 April, 2011
even if you have the visuals to match the beats, when you kick in the sample it may be off, having it synced automatically is worlds apart from visual aids.
the_black_one 12:14 AM - 9 April, 2011
imma say this like the 19 year old vet that i am. I want sync because i want to lower the booth volume and same my hearing as much as possible.
the_black_one 12:14 AM - 9 April, 2011
same = save
dj_soo 12:14 AM - 9 April, 2011
that's what cue points are for. There are also pitch bend buttons you can map to each sample bank.
blackavenger 12:14 AM - 9 April, 2011
The ONLY genre I see syncing to be acceptable is within Techno, and only if you are mixing w' 4 decks. With the other more Effected genres, there really is no use for it besides laziness.

But the SP-6 being sync's to the master tempo, that makes sense! Who the hell has the time whilst matching beats to manually manipulate samples? I don't! I have a MIDI controller for the SP-6, and not long after I bought it, I pretty much abandoned it.......to me it's a USELESS feature f you have to do all the manipulating manually.
RogerRabbit 12:15 AM - 9 April, 2011
Quote:
you can just use a midi controller and an SL3 or SL4, map a slider to the pitch control and manually beatmatch the SP-6 samples like a real man.

Yeah that was the point I was trying to make... Don't bitch about other people using sync but then want it when u using samples...
Mr. Goodkat 12:17 AM - 9 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


i have seen a lot of suspect(skills wise) djs switch to traktor or run traktor. people that couldnt beatmatch with serato or cds or whatever, now instantly can beatmatch. not mad at it, just sayin.

You have bpm readout and waveforms on the screen - so it's not like if your using ssl it is really all skill...


thats the sad part
dj_soo 12:30 AM - 9 April, 2011
Quote:
The ONLY genre I see syncing to be acceptable is within Techno, and only if you are mixing w' 4 decks. With the other more Effected genres, there really is no use for it besides laziness.

But the SP-6 being sync's to the master tempo, that makes sense! Who the hell has the time whilst matching beats to manually manipulate samples? I don't! I have a MIDI controller for the SP-6, and not long after I bought it, I pretty much abandoned it.......to me it's a USELESS feature f you have to do all the manipulating manually.


replace "manipulate samples" with "beatmatch" and you're pretty much mirroring every sync-supporters argument.

There are DJs who mix manually on 4 and 3 decks. Most people don't do it because it's hard and takes a lot of work to master.

Which is the same reason a lot of n00bs want auto-sync.
blackavenger 12:57 AM - 9 April, 2011
Alright, cool! I suppose you guys are so badass that you can match 4 decks, and 24 samples manually ;)

Have fun w' that.....LOL.

I had 3 1210M5G's at one time, then sold one, and replaced it w' a CDJ-400....I can match 3 decks (even w'out ScratchLIVE) quite well manually. But add to that multiple (on the fly) samples and it starts to get really complicated, real quick! With having to keep up w' sooo much going on, when would you ever have the time to look at the crowd?

Why are people so excited about TraktorPro2? Because it has beat-sync'd sampler. All I'm asking is that Serato do the same, but since the SP-6 is soooo much more feature-packed than TP2's iteration, it would put ScratchLIVE back on top, and keep my eyes/ears from wandering. I'm heavily invested in ScratchLIVE (over 5 years), all I want is to remain so.......is that too much to ask for?
Caliber 2:49 AM - 9 April, 2011
there is nothing wrong with auto sync but i must say that it doesn't really help when it comes to dancehall music. there is no such thing as a perfect beatgrid in dancehall. When it comes to EDM then auto sync is the ish. You do all your live remixing and not worrying about the 4th deck drifting. (I don't play EDM but I like to hear DJs that play it) I here djs come in the forum talking about vertical waveforms. The only way you can talk about waveforms that much is if you use it as a visual aid and that is very close to auto sync.

I heard a local dj on the radio who I know cant mix for beans and started out using virtual dj and was force to use ssl because the promoter was a dj and club owner and now this kid talking about anyone that uses virtual dj can't mix and that the software does it for them. But every time he plays at the club he use no headphones but his eyes is clued to the screen.

My point is, if serato decides to add auto sync, use it or don't use it. Which ever makes you feel like a real dj. Knowing serato they might make it as a plugin and all the cool djs on here will say they don't use it. geez
skinnyguy 4:36 AM - 9 April, 2011
sync, no. lock, yes.
Dj Ace 3:15 PM - 9 April, 2011
^^^^^ +1
sixxx 5:32 PM - 9 April, 2011
If you mix EDM and you need auto sync, you need to quit DJing.
DJSCIASCIA 5:56 PM - 9 April, 2011
Quote:
If you mix EDM and you need auto sync, you need to quit DJing.

I don't post here often but this statement is so true.
ninjaty 6:03 PM - 9 April, 2011
Not a need but a want.

You are right beatmatching EDM is so easy. So easy I dont see the point in doing it at all. Especially when mixing a 130 bpm track to another 130 bpm track you really are not beatmatching anyway. You are really just babying the fluctuations in the equipment causing drift. This sucks when you have 3 loops and are mixing another track into them if there is no sync.

If you are scratching and doing things that actually justifies using turntables, totally understand. If you are up there matching 2 130 bpm songs using outdated equipment, like hey look what I can do, I guess thats cool too. I prefer to free myself from the bullshit so i can try other creative stuff.

Its like doing math on paper longhand when there is a calculator right next to you just so you can impress your nerd friends. No one cares.
ral 6:14 PM - 9 April, 2011
Quote:
Alright, cool! I suppose you guys are so badass that you can match 4 decks, and 24 samples manually ;)


just 7 samples with the sp6 -
Watchwww.youtube.com

if you want 24 or more, go get the bridge man - your sync is waiting for you

else get your traktor already
blackavenger 6:34 PM - 9 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Alright, cool! I suppose you guys are so badass that you can match 4 decks, and 24 samples manually ;)


just 7 samples with the sp6 -
Watchwww.youtube.com

if you want 24 or more, go get the bridge man - your sync is waiting for you

else get your traktor already


That's cool and all, but he's not mixing 2 tracks on the decks while at the same time matching & triggering those samples.

And I agree, all I would need is Bridge. But why should I have to spend an additional $700 on Ableton & a Novation/Akai controller when the functionality I want is just an update away within the SP-6?

I used to own Traktor....and now I'm demoing TSP2 again, and to be honest, I STILL don't like Traktor.......I want this functionality in ScratchLIVE.....the software I LOVE, and am MOST COMFORTABLE with.

I see Sp-6 Sync as a compromise to ScratchLIVE's integrity of keeping it oldskool by not having sync'd decks. Give us some flexibility, but maintain that we still DJ in a traditional sense.

I really don't see why anyone would argue this.
AKIEM 7:04 PM - 9 April, 2011
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

I see Sp-6 Sync as a compromise to ScratchLIVE's integrity of keeping it oldskool by not having sync'd decks. Give us some flexibility, but maintain that we still DJ in a traditional sense.
DJ Sniffles 12:24 AM - 10 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Quote:




Alright, cool! I suppose you guys are so badass that you can match 4 decks, and 24 samples manually ;)


just 7 samples with the sp6 -
Watchwww.youtube.com

if you want 24 or more, go get the bridge man - your sync is waiting for you

else get your traktor already


That's cool and all, but he's not mixing 2 tracks on the decks while at the same time matching & triggering those samples.

And I agree, all I would need is Bridge. But why should I have to spend an additional $700 on Ableton & a Novation/Akai controller when the functionality I want is just an update away within the SP-6?

I used to own Traktor....and now I'm demoing TSP2 again, and to be honest, I STILL don't like Traktor.......I want this functionality in ScratchLIVE.....the software I LOVE, and am MOST COMFORTABLE with.

I see Sp-6 Sync as a compromise to ScratchLIVE's integrity of keeping it oldskool by not having sync'd decks. Give us some flexibility, but maintain that we still DJ in a traditional sense.

I really don't see why anyone would argue this.


I can see why...nobody gives a shit about 2 turntables and a microphone.

lrn2multitask even more!
DJ Sniffles 12:25 AM - 10 April, 2011
Grow more hands
sixxx 12:51 AM - 10 April, 2011
The calculator analogy always cracks me up.
Trust me. There are many types of mathematical
equations you couldn't handle without a calculator.

Here is a better calculator analogy. If you can't do basic
Math in your head and you need a calculator, you
need to go back to school.
ninjaty 1:08 AM - 10 April, 2011
You miss the point.
Rebelguy 1:08 AM - 10 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Alright, cool! I suppose you guys are so badass that you can match 4 decks, and 24 samples manually ;)


just 7 samples with the sp6 -
Watchwww.youtube.com

if you want 24 or more, go get the bridge man - your sync is waiting for you

else get your traktor already


Cool...I'd like to see him do a whole night of different songs at a club.
ninjaty 1:13 AM - 10 April, 2011
Quote:
The calculator analogy always cracks me up.
Trust me. There are many types of mathematical
equations you couldn't handle without a calculator.


Excellent point. Just like there are and will be many mix techniques, that just like your point above, will not be able to be done without sync. Its the next level but you can continue to do your basic math.
sixxx 1:34 AM - 10 April, 2011
Sync or lock? I hope u mean lock.
ninjaty 1:46 AM - 10 April, 2011
Not sure what you consider the difference. I'm talking about locking/syncing one beat grid to another and yes, cover your ears...letting the computer beatmatch the songs. Ohhhhh Nooooooooo!!!!!!! LOL

By the way, I am not claiming to be some great dj, most of you are probably far better than me but I am also not some noob. I learned to dj on real vinyl, lugged it around and all. I just dont see the point anymore specifically with EDM. Hip hop I would still want decks but with dance music I'd rather be twisting knobs and pushing buttons. Sorry.
sixxx 2:00 AM - 10 April, 2011
Yeah... cause twisting knobs and pushing buttons is so "next level". Right? lol
dj_soo 2:10 AM - 10 April, 2011
this whole "next level" talk is so overrated - maybe 5% of DJs out there will truly use the tech to push things to the next level.

Most will just either be lazier, rely on the shortcuts without breaking out of the box, or just being doing the exact same thing the 2-turntables and a mixer crowd was doing for years with an effect or two added in... I have never seen an ableton DJ set that has ever impressed me more than a super-skilled DJ behind the decks - and i've seen a whole lot of ableton sets...

Hell, even in the amazing videos that Craze, Shiftee, and Rafik are doing, there's not too much they're doing that couldn't be done in scratchlive with the help of some midi controllers and a lot of practice...
the_black_one 2:16 AM - 10 April, 2011
i played on some pioneer cd players last night and i hated it. The feel of plastic on my fingers is not a good one. Too much button pushing for me.
sixxx 2:18 AM - 10 April, 2011
DJ soo gets it. nm nh
DJ metaphor 2:23 AM - 10 April, 2011
Quote:
i played on some pioneer cd players last night and i hated it.


I HATE CDJs... Terrible...
ninjaty 3:00 AM - 10 April, 2011
This is like arguing religion with someone. Pointless. In my opinion, love it or hate it, its the future of djing.

Do you think people will be using turntables and cdjs as controllers in 5 or 10 years?
dj_soo 3:11 AM - 10 April, 2011
i will be
sixxx 3:19 AM - 10 April, 2011
Yes. I have been doing it for twenty years. I still don't use cd players
even though I am very capable of using them.
sixxx 3:20 AM - 10 April, 2011
But don't take my word for it. Make a poll. I bet you lots of people will be using turntables.
dj_soo 3:30 AM - 10 April, 2011
if someone finally makes a good midi controller based on the technics specs and motor, i would switch... really wish that april fool's article was true...
sixxx 5:00 AM - 10 April, 2011
That was still a turntable though. A MIDI one, but still a turntable. :P
ral 5:46 AM - 10 April, 2011
Quote:
Hell, even in the amazing videos that Craze, Shiftee, and Rafik are doing, there's not too much they're doing that couldn't be done in scratchlive with the help of some midi controllers and a lot of practice...


+1
blackavenger 5:47 AM - 10 April, 2011
Quote:
i will be


As will I
blackavenger 5:48 AM - 10 April, 2011
I will never "not" mix on 1210's...this is why I want the "compromise".
AKIEM 4:49 PM - 10 April, 2011
I will still be spinning on my 1200s - even though they are heavy and in less clubs - yes Ive been pushing cdjs out the way lately. And I know I think it is a little ridiculous for there to still be analog in the chain. But until they come up with something that feels enough like superiority and has the long lasting value of a 1200 - I am staying with them.

I think its a conspiracy that the companies are not trying very hard to give us a true replacement.
Dj Ace 5:11 PM - 10 April, 2011
I will as well...turntables for life. It would be nice for midi one tho...
blackavenger 5:58 PM - 10 April, 2011
Quote:
I will never "not" mix on 1210's...this is why I want the "compromise".


That's not to say I'm "exclusively" going to mix on Techs......I already have a CDJ, and I want to buy the NS6 when it drops. Though, I'll never sell, nor stop playing on my traditional setup.
Dj Ace 6:02 PM - 10 April, 2011
^ +1

I own a vci and also planning to get a ns6 when it drops...
Dax 6:26 PM - 10 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Quote:




Does anyone mix videos outside of the US - serious question?

This guy does: serato.com


cheeba posts on here pretty regularly: www.djcheeba.com


if you like cheeba's stuff your like this.dj dk from ninja tunes solid steel.
Watchvimeo.com
Mr. Goodkat 11:14 PM - 10 April, 2011
Quote:
This is like arguing religion with someone. Pointless. In my opinion, love it or hate it, its the future of djing.

Do you think people will be using turntables and cdjs as controllers in 5 or 10 years?


10 YRS - prolly not
sixxx 3:08 AM - 11 April, 2011
I honestly want to buy something like the NS7 for some mobile gigs (not all) but I know for sure I will still be using my turntables in 5 years. 10? Maybe. 15? I hope so. 20? What... you don't have a life that you're tracking what I'm doing all these years? lol

:P
ryansupak 3:33 AM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Do you want to take your sets to a whole new level using the latest Traktor Technology? Or do you want to sound like every other dime per dozen DJ?


I would rather let my track selection and mic skills set me apart, than to depend on some new gimmick. (Of course, I'm sure this one is better than the last gimmick, and the one before that, and the one before that, that, according to the Chinese electronics industry, we just HAD TO HAVE.)

rs
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:36 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
If you mix EDM and you need auto sync, you need to quit DJing.


sixxx i dont think you really understand the situation, sync is vital because it frees you time to be more creative, that 5 to 6 seconds that you save allows you time to......well to.....well someone could possibly............you know i have yet to get a straight answer on this, i mean i guess that knob isnt gonna twist itself........holy shit ive just had a vission of the future....AUTOTWIST
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:37 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
This is like arguing religion with someone. Pointless. In my opinion, love it or hate it, its the future of djing.

Do you think people will be using turntables and cdjs as controllers in 5 or 10 years?



if more people had your attitude there wont even be any djs in 5 to 10 years itll all be automated
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:41 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:

i have seen a lot of suspect(skills wise) djs switch to traktor or run traktor. people that couldnt beatmatch with serato or cds or whatever, now instantly can beatmatch. not mad at it, just sayin.


This is why I PRAY Serato NEVER implement Deck Sync w' ScratchLIVE! Though, they can, and should add Sync to the SP-6!! They should add it to both platforms, ITCH included!



that dosent make any sense if you impliment it in the sampler you may as well impliment it into the regular decks because if its in the sampler you can still cheat and mix all your songs through the sampler
ninjaty 6:50 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


This is like arguing religion with someone. Pointless. In my opinion, love it or hate it, its the future of djing.

Do you think people will be using turntables and cdjs as controllers in 5 or 10 years?



if more people had your attitude there wont even be any djs in 5 to 10 years itll all be automated



Technology giveth, technology taketh away.
Joshua Carl 7:12 PM - 11 April, 2011
funny thing.
not to take this totally off topic.

but in the instances where people make the "it gives me time to be more creative and do other things" claim...
I dont see them doing anything that cant be done with just SSL.
theres no crazy mass sync going on where they are rifling through loops or anything.
they just mix like everyone else does, sans the effort.

Im sure theres a bazillion youtube videos of guys doing crazy things via auto-sync.
we all understand the possibilities.
but the guys Ive run into are NOT them...not in the least.
dj_soo 7:14 PM - 11 April, 2011
most of these "more creative types" auto-mixing in stuff like ableton or traktor that i've seen live actually seem to be doing even less most DJs these days.

The only "next level" types using these programs are the ones incorporating live instruments or doing sets of their own material and tracks.
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:15 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
funny thing.
not to take this totally off topic.

but in the instances where people make the "it gives me time to be more creative and do other things" claim...
I dont see them doing anything that cant be done with just SSL.
theres no crazy mass sync going on where they are rifling through loops or anything.
they just mix like everyone else does, sans the effort.

Im sure theres a bazillion youtube videos of guys doing crazy things via auto-sync.
we all understand the possibilities.
but the guys Ive run into are NOT them...not in the least.


THIS!!!! From what ive seen the concept of "i need synch because it frees me to be creative" translates to "ive seen some djs do things that require skill that i cant do so i need this to do it for me"....and what they dont realise is the entire reason these things are impressive is BECAUSE THEY ARE HARD TO DO AND EVERYONE CANT DO IT.
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:16 PM - 11 April, 2011
Also for everyone saying they need 4+ tracks synced your using the wrong equipment anyway you needs something like ableton because your basically producing
Joshua Carl 7:16 PM - 11 April, 2011
it would be great if the DVS's that engaged this auto feature had a biter alarm.

like if you are just using it skip out and not push the envelope you'd get a pop up
"warning...you have 10 seconds to bring it or else auto sync wil permanently dis-engage"
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:21 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
it would be great if the DVS's that engaged this auto feature had a biter alarm.

like if you are just using it skip out and not push the envelope you'd get a pop up
"warning...you have 10 seconds to bring it or else auto sync wil permanently dis-engage"


lol you click to turn it on and a sample plays that says "airhorn airhorn airhorn ATTN AUDIENCE THE DJ IS ABOUT TO GET REALLY CREAIVE WATCH THIS airhorn airhorn airhorn"
AKIEM 7:26 PM - 11 April, 2011
With my 1200 and the decimal bpm you can see the fluctuation (wow-flutter). With the CDJ (since Ive never used with SSL) I imagine that there is no fluctuation - its steady correct?

So with CDJ or whatever digital controller - its really just a mater of dialing in the matching BPM. Really, how long does that take?

If you cant match two numbers in a second or two seriously you must be intellectually challenged (I didnt want to say retarded)

really tho
dj_soo 7:29 PM - 11 April, 2011
BUT THINK ABOUT THE CREATIVITY! WON'T ANYONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CREATIVITY?
yopyop 7:41 PM - 11 April, 2011
I can't resist to argue with AKIEM ;)

you can beatmatch perfectly but you need 0,01 or less pitch, no cdj has that. so after looooong time. it will go away, you will have to correct it and that's the matter.

That's the point a lot of people are missing, problem is not to beatmatch, problem is to keep sync perfect for infinite time.
if you mix tracks during 30 sec, you don't need auto. sometimes i keep tracks running for 5 min, and during this time i don't want to take care of adjusting sync, i want to play with others thing, effects, loops, etc.

to get back to subject : tsp2
- gui is still horrible
- songs management is not usual
- a least, it get waveform color
- sampler has kick ssl one.

i'm waiting till this summer, sl-4 or audio 10, serato has the ball in their hand.
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:43 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
BUT THINK ABOUT THE CREATIVITY! WON'T ANYONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CREATIVITY?



lol ironic, all these people do is talk about creativity yet they cant come up with a more creative answer than they need it to be creative
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:47 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
I can't resist to argue with AKIEM ;)

you can beatmatch perfectly but you need 0,01 or less pitch, no cdj has that. so after looooong time. it will go away, you will have to correct it and that's the matter.

That's the point a lot of people are missing, problem is not to beatmatch, problem is to keep sync perfect for infinite time.
if you mix tracks during 30 sec, you don't need auto. sometimes i keep tracks running for 5 min, and during this time i don't want to take care of adjusting sync, i want to play with others thing, penis, loops, etc.

to get back to subject : tsp2
- gui is still horrible
- songs management is not usual
- a least, it get waveform color
- sampler has kick ssl one.

i'm waiting till this summer, sl-4 or audio 10, serato has the ball in their hand.


good god man what kinda gigs are you playing that you need it to be on time INFINITELY, i mean is it really THAT hard and out of the way to have to nudge a platter now and then. Also everyone always brings up effects but damn how many damn effects are you layering up over EVERY SONG, that HAS to get annoying
dj_soo 7:50 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
I can't resist to argue with AKIEM ;)

you can beatmatch perfectly but you need 0,01 or less pitch, no cdj has that. so after looooong time. it will go away, you will have to correct it and that's the matter.

That's the point a lot of people are missing, problem is not to beatmatch, problem is to keep sync perfect for infinite time.
if you mix tracks during 30 sec, you don't need auto. sometimes i keep tracks running for 5 min, and during this time i don't want to take care of adjusting sync, i want to play with others thing, effects, loops, etc.


are you serious? even if the're 0.01 off, you barely need to babysit the mix - maybe touch the platter or pitch bend once every 10-20 seconds tops - especilly with quantized electronic music.

that's plenty of time to mess about with loops and effects and whatnot in between the miniscule amount of babysitting you'd need to do.



Quote:
Quote:


BUT THINK ABOUT THE CREATIVITY! WON'T ANYONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CREATIVITY?



lol ironic, all these people do is talk about creativity yet they cant come up with a more creative answer than they need it to be creative


that's technically not irony, but whatevs :p
StreetFighta 7:51 PM - 11 April, 2011
I'm on serato now but I used traktor for a few years, and I dont have a problem with sync. You should know how to beatmatch without it, yes. But if you do, then if you choose to use it, that's your choice.

yeah, everyone is saying how easy it is to beatmatch. So if I don't want to/need to why should I be forced to? So that other djs can say "I'm keeping it real?". haha

and people are overlooking some of traktor's best features that are possible with sync. quantized beatjumping/cue point jumping.
dj_soo 7:54 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
and people are overlooking some of traktor's best features that are possible with sync. quantized beatjumping/cue point jumping.


how is this feature different from scratches cues? honest question here...
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:57 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:

and people are overlooking some of traktor's best features that are possible with sync. quantized beatjumping/cue point jumping.


how is this feature different from scratches cues? honest question here...



because sl dosent have sync so youd have to develop the SKILL to be able to do it right....nope nope cant have that that wouldnt be fair to everyone, it needs to be automated so any fool can walk in off the street to do it
dj_soo 8:10 PM - 11 April, 2011
i'm actually curious tho - on scratchlive you can set 5 cues and 9 loops which also feature a "jump to loop" option (effectively acts as a cue point).

What does Traktor do differently in this regard? Every single video I've seen of Traktor demos make it seem like it's exactly the same as Serato - press a button, go to the spot in the track.
Rebelguy 8:13 PM - 11 April, 2011
Attention Serato. Just release sync already. We know you guys are working on it. Sync can only make you a better dj as far as matching beats. It will not teach you about levels. It will not teach you about how to use your eq to tune a mix. Also, if you can't read a crowd you will still suck. I could care less if Serato makes a bunch of money off people that think they can be instant DJs. That means they will stay in business. Those people will get weeded out eventually and sell all their expensive toys at bargain basement prices.
jepe 8:14 PM - 11 April, 2011
beatjump is usefull in fact. also sync in sample decks.
Rebelguy 8:15 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
i'm actually curious tho - on scratchlive you can set 5 cues and 9 loops which also feature a "jump to loop" option (effectively acts as a cue point).

What does Traktor do differently in this regard? Every single video I've seen of Traktor demos make it seem like it's exactly the same as Serato - press a button, go to the spot in the track.


Maybe it's because you can quantize your triggering in traktor so you don't have to worry about being exactly on when you hit your cue. I guess this would be helpful if you wanted to hit cue during an actual mix or something.
StreetFighta 8:15 PM - 11 April, 2011
well beatjumping allows you to jump forward and backward for however many bars you want while keeping in perfect time (which you can do in serato if you preset the cues/loops and are good on timing sure)

but the beatjump allows you to extend/shorten phrases on the fly which i think is pretty useful.
jepe 8:19 PM - 11 April, 2011
exactly. i dont like traktor , but regarding beatjump & sample sync ( for some looped beats & acapellas is usefull) . off course i can map pitch bend and pitch slider in some kind of midi controller or use 3rd deck for the acapellas and beats.
dj_soo 8:21 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
well beatjumping allows you to jump forward and backward for however many bars you want while keeping in perfect time (which you can do in serato if you preset the cues/loops and are good on timing sure)

but the beatjump allows you to extend/shorten phrases on the fly which i think is pretty useful.


so you can grab a 4 bar loop and stretch that to half time or something? That does sound pretty cool..
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:27 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:

well beatjumping allows you to jump forward and backward for however many bars you want while keeping in perfect time (which you can do in serato if you preset the cues/loops and are good on timing sure)

but the beatjump allows you to extend/shorten phrases on the fly which i think is pretty useful.


so you can grab a 4 bar loop and stretch that to half time or something? That does sound pretty cool..



....you can do that in SL
dj_soo 8:28 PM - 11 April, 2011
how would you do that in sl?
dj_soo 8:29 PM - 11 April, 2011
you can grab a 4 bar loop, but you can't automatically halve the timing of that 4 bar loop - maybe using the bridge...

I don't mean cutting it down to 2 bars from the 4 bars, I mean time stretching the 4 bars so that the audio turns into a half-time loop
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:31 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
you can grab a 4 bar loop, but you can't automatically halve the timing of that 4 bar loop - maybe using the bridge...

I don't mean cutting it down to 2 bars from the 4 bars, I mean time stretching the 4 bars so that the audio turns into a half-time loop


you lost me there
dj_soo 8:41 PM - 11 April, 2011
like making the loop go veeeeeerrrrrryyyyyy sllllloooooooowwwwwwwlllllllyyyyyyy in time and then putting it back to normal at the press of a button
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:44 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
like making the loop go veeeeeerrrrrryyyyyy sllllloooooooowwwwwwwlllllllyyyyyyy in time and then putting it back to normal at the press of a button



....kinda like dropping the pitch then using quartz lock to 0 it back in?
Joshua Carl 8:45 PM - 11 April, 2011
Aka dropping the pitch to -50.00
on a 2 bar loop, becomes a 4 bar loop.

A friend of mine who used to rock that crazy vestax deck (that had the +/- of 30 or something...)
would put records that were 45Rpm on 33, then drop the pitch to some random amount and he would get -50% pitch
dj_soo 8:45 PM - 11 April, 2011
yea, but it won't be exactly in time that way i mean like taking a 100 bpm loop, dropping it to 50 bpm and then back to 100 again. You can do that in ableton in real time...
dj_soo 8:46 PM - 11 April, 2011
i guess you could figure out the exact bpm change between having something set at 45 and 33 but it still won't be instantaneous...
ninjaty 8:48 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
you can grab a 4 bar loop, but you can't automatically halve the timing of that 4 bar loop - maybe using the bridge...

I don't mean cutting it down to 2 bars from the 4 bars, I mean time stretching the 4 bars so that the audio turns into a half-time loop


In traktor you would have the deck sync'd to internal tempo on then at the same time you change the cue length you would cut the master tempo in half.

Quote:
Quote:


Quote:



and people are overlooking some of traktor's best features that are possible with sync. quantized beatjumping/cue point jumping.


how is this feature different from scratches cues? honest question here...



because sl dosent have sync so youd have to develop the SKILL to be able to do it right....nope nope cant have that that wouldnt be fair to everyone, it needs to be automated so any fool can walk in off the street to do it


I am arguing straight laziness. I just dont want to baby decks anymore mixing 130 bpm songs to 130 bpm songs. I dont see the point. I would rather be watching the crowd picking, out songs, jesus posing, etc...
dj_soo 8:49 PM - 11 April, 2011
so why would you use decks at all? just use something like ableton and be done with it...
ninjaty 8:53 PM - 11 April, 2011
I tought this and have tried repeatedly to dj with ableton but there are problems I just cant get over.
1. file browsing sucks
2. you cannot see all tracks playing, only the one you are working with
3. the warping in ableton is way to tedious and time consuming
ninjaty 8:57 PM - 11 April, 2011
You do realize that when playing electronic music that is all basically the same bpm, you are not really beatmatching the songs. You are really just compensating for the natural fluctuations between two different pieces of hardware.
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:58 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:

I am arguing straight laziness.

Quote:

3. the warping in ableton is way to tedious and time consuming


....how about u just use mixmeister lol
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:58 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
You do realize that when playing electronic music that is all basically the same bpm, you are not really beatmatching the songs. You are really just compensating for the natural fluctuations between two different pieces of hardware.



you do realise every EDM song is not the exact same tempo right?
dj_soo 9:00 PM - 11 April, 2011
if you're using EDM tracks like house, the warping is super fast. For the most part the auto-warp detection is fairly accurate once you immediately load up a track. otherwise:

find the downbeat.
right-click and select "set 1.1.1 here"
right-click and select "warp from here"

bam.

I agree the filebrowsing sucks, but you can just use itunes for playlists and drag and drop from there.
ninjaty 9:06 PM - 11 April, 2011
Yeah I know and love ableton. I use it for production some. It just doesn't work for me to dj with.

Quote:
Quote:



I am arguing straight laziness.

Quote:



3. the warping in ableton is way to tedious and time consuming


....how about u just use mixmeister lol

LOL come on man.
blackavenger 9:19 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Quote:



i have seen a lot of suspect(skills wise) djs switch to traktor or run traktor. people that couldnt beatmatch with serato or cds or whatever, now instantly can beatmatch. not mad at it, just sayin.


This is why I PRAY Serato NEVER implement Deck Sync w' ScratchLIVE! Though, they can, and should add Sync to the SP-6!! They should add it to both platforms, ITCH included!



that dosent make any sense if you impliment it in the sampler you may as well impliment it into the regular decks because if its in the sampler you can still cheat and mix all your songs through the sampler


So install a time limit of, say 3 minutes....it's still better than the 45 seconds that Traktor offers, and gives you plenty of time to get your point (creativity) across.

It DOES make sense....it's a compromise for those in favor & those opposed!
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:24 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:

It DOES make sense....it's a compromise for those in favor & those opposed!


wheres the compromise the people who are opposed lose, the people who are opposed dont want it mainly because it allows you to "cheat" and with your suggestion you can fully "cheat". At that point your just trying to make yourself feel better about losing the argument, so you can say "well its not FULL autosync"
Rebelguy 9:24 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:


It DOES make sense....it's a compromise for those in favor & those opposed!


Those opposed...stay on 2.2 or 1.8 if you are really trying to keep it real. Everyone else update. Problem solved.
ninjaty 9:27 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
It DOES make sense....it's a compromise for those in favor & those opposed!

Why would you purposely limit your software just because some people oppose something. The compromise is the ability to turn it off. Let people use it how they want.

I think some of you are sooooooo opposed to it because you are scared if it is in there you are going to try it, like it, and find yourselves using it.
sixxx 9:30 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:

I think some of you are sooooooo opposed to it because you are scared if it is in there you are going to try it, like it, and find yourselves using it.


I really doubt this. The problem is that auto-sync degrades the PROFESSIONAL part of the software because like anything else, it will get misused. A HUGE percentage of the people who say they need it to free themselves for more creative tasks are lying to themselves. Unless they mean creative stuff like talking to chicks, surfing the net, etc. lol

Let's face it. If you're not doing some creative stuff RIGHT NOW without auto-sync. You WON'T BE DOINT anything creative with it.
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:33 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:

It DOES make sense....it's a compromise for those in favor & those opposed!

Why would you purposely limit your software just because some people oppose something. The compromise is the ability to turn it off. Let people use it how they want.

I think some of you are sooooooo opposed to it because you are scared if it is in there you are going to try it, like it, and find yourselves using it.



ya i would have soooo much more fun at gigs when one of the few responsibilities is automated, without having to beatmatch ill have more time to.....well stand there. Id be better off just recording a mix then dropping it off at the club and going home
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:34 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:

Let's face it. If you're not doing some creative stuff RIGHT NOW without auto-sync. You WON'T BE DOINT anything creative with it.



+1000000000 THIS!!! Like the 4 to 5 seconds it takes them to beatmatch is drastically restraining them from any kind of creative achivement
blackavenger 9:38 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
wheres the compromise the people who are opposed lose,


How so, if anything you're getting more of your way. The main decks would NOT BE SYNC'd, and the SP-6 would be LIMITED in TIME ALLOTTED for samples.

I am NOT losing any arguments.

I'm trying to propose a compromise from the Oldskool to the Nuskool.
ninjaty 9:38 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Let's face it. If you're not doing some creative stuff RIGHT NOW without auto-sync. You WON'T BE DOINT anything creative with it.


Totally agree.
StreetFighta 9:44 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:

I really doubt this. The problem is that auto-sync degrades the PROFESSIONAL part of the software because like anything else, it will get misused. A HUGE percentage of the people who say they need it to free themselves for more creative tasks are lying to themselves. Unless they mean creative stuff like talking to chicks, surfing the net, etc. lol

Let's face it. If you're not doing some creative stuff RIGHT NOW without auto-sync. You WON'T BE DOINT anything creative with it.


if that's the case then we should get rid of bpm counters, waveforms, hell Serato Audio Research should just shutter the windows and lock the doors because any advancement they make will be misused.
blackavenger 9:46 PM - 11 April, 2011
Listen an Auto-Sync'd SP-6 is not for cheezy Pop40 Drop Samples......it's for loops! How the fuck are you supposed to keep up w' 2, 3, or 4 deck's tempos, whilst at the same time keep up w' up to 24 (realistically 6 to 12) loops' tempos?

Answer me that, Bezzle, Soo, Sixx, or anyone else fighting tooth and nail to oppose this?

Are Y'all human cyborgs, with more than two hands, and multiple sets of eyes?

No, you're not.
ninjaty 9:50 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Listen an Auto-Sync'd SP-6 is not for cheezy Pop40 Drop Samples......it's for loops! How the fuck are you supposed to keep up w' 2, 3, or 4 deck's tempos, whilst at the same time keep up w' up to 24 (realistically 6 to 12) loops' tempos?

Answer me that, Bezzle, Soo, Sixx, or anyone else fighting tooth and nail to oppose this?

Are Y'all human cyborgs, with more than two hands, and multiple sets of eyes?

No, you're not.


They nor anybody they know are doing anything like that, so they automatically assume no one does.
StreetFighta 9:55 PM - 11 April, 2011
yeah like someone said earlier, this is worse than religion or politics. Like it or not, it's gonna happen. Maybe they can go back to spinning real vinyl on belt drive decks to distinguish themselves from the newjacks and keep it real
[O/][iii][O/] 9:56 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
well beatjumping allows you to jump forward and backward for however many bars you want while keeping in perfect time (which you can do in serato if you preset the cues/loops and are good on timing sure)

but the beatjump allows you to extend/shorten phrases on the fly which i think is pretty useful.


This is kind of what a bunch of want auto-splice for: serato.com

I personally want it to skip over boring breakdowns. I do it now, but via editing a track and re-saving, but with an auto-splace feature the time-saving would be incredible.
dj_soo 9:56 PM - 11 April, 2011
i'm not fighting tooth and nail to oppose anything - I think it would be a decent idea which will likely come with the bridge. In fact, the sample looper is one of the few things about Traktor that really does interest me although personally, I would prefer more than just a loop user, I would prefer a straight audio-recorder looper so you can scratch a beat and then record it like you can in Ableton.

What I AM saying though, is that the majority of the sets that I see where people are using this kind of program, are almost never using any of these features available to them in the first place.

I guess I'm just not seeing the point of needing 24 loops running while you dj - and if you need it that much, then Ableton and Bridge is a much better option since you're not constrained to a set amount of loops.

Personally instead of an auto-tempo'd sampler deck, I'd rather see better Bridge integration so you can start pulling things on the fly.
dj_soo 9:57 PM - 11 April, 2011
the beatslicer in Twitch seems kinda neat too but you can pull that exact feature off in Ableton as well...
blackavenger 9:57 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
The problem is that auto-sync degrades the PROFESSIONAL part of the software because like anything else, it will get misused.


That's funny...I don't think these guys have lost any of their professionalism due to using Traktor that has Auto Sync'd Decks & Sampler.

Carl Cox
Richie Hawtin
Marco Corola
Ida Engberg
Q-Bert
Chris Liebing
Joel Mull
StreetFighta 9:59 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


well beatjumping allows you to jump forward and backward for however many bars you want while keeping in perfect time (which you can do in serato if you preset the cues/loops and are good on timing sure)

but the beatjump allows you to extend/shorten phrases on the fly which i think is pretty useful.


This is kind of what a bunch of want auto-splice for: serato.com

I personally want it to skip over boring breakdowns. I do it now, but via editing a track and re-saving, but with an auto-splace feature the time-saving would be incredible.


this is exactly what i used it for, jumpforward 16 bars to skip a chorus, jump back 4 bars to keep an intro going. I never really used actual loops in traktor that much
ninjaty 10:02 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Personally instead of an auto-tempo'd sampler deck, I'd rather see better Bridge integration so you can start pulling things on the fly.


I think the problem with the bridge is that it is way to complicated for your average non ableton user and way to lacking for your ableton nerds.
dj_soo 10:05 PM - 11 April, 2011
once you start doing shit where you're trying to keep multiple loops/tracks/etc going - it's already too complicated for the average person - at least putting a bit a of a learning curve in there for a more robust feature set will force people to actually learn something before making a mess of the shit in public.

kind of what's going on with DJing right now...
blackavenger 10:05 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Personally instead of an auto-tempo'd sampler deck, I'd rather see better Bridge integration so you can start pulling things on the fly.


Bridge is awesome...I've said it before! The problem I have is that the SP-6 could give us just about the same functionality without having to spend an additional $700 or so to get it. Come on, we're in a fucking recession here...I have a hard enough time justifying what I already spend on tracks/equipment.

We're not all superstar DJs making thousands of dollars a month. I (and I'm sure many others) am just a aging DJ that plays a weekly for minimal cash compared to what I got payed when I was doing raves. I love to mix...I'll always do it. But just because I am not touring the country/world doesn't mean that I don't deserve to have just as much creative expression as those who do.

Serato, please put this functionality in the SP-6!!!
dj_soo 10:06 PM - 11 April, 2011
actually, it's only $500 and it comes with 2 licenses so you can easily split it with a friend :)
Rebelguy 10:08 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
i'm not fighting tooth and nail to oppose anything - I think it would be a decent idea which will likely come with the bridge. In fact, the sample looper is one of the few things about Traktor that really does interest me although personally, I would prefer more than just a loop user, I would prefer a straight audio-recorder looper so you can scratch a beat and then record it like you can in Ableton.

What I AM saying though, is that the majority of the sets that I see where people are using this kind of program, are almost never using any of these features available to them in the first place.

I guess I'm just not seeing the point of needing 24 loops running while you dj - and if you need it that much, then Ableton and Bridge is a much better option since you're not constrained to a set amount of loops.

Personally instead of an auto-tempo'd sampler deck, I'd rather see better Bridge integration so you can start pulling things on the fly.


The problem with this is that you need to spend an additional $400 or more for a program you will probably not need a majority of the features for. Plus the limitations imposed by Serato and Rane as to what hardware you can use and what they will let it control is wack. So basically a new guy would be like...hey I just dropped $1000 to get Serato and an SL-3 but can't use the mixtape function. Damn now I need to either buy a 57 or a 68.

Yes Traktor is a slimmed down version of the bridge but it also doesn't require additional cost.
Dj-M.Bezzle 10:09 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Listen an Auto-Sync'd SP-6 is not for cheezy Pop40 Drop Samples......it's for loops! How the fuck are you supposed to keep up w' 2, 3, or 4 deck's tempos, whilst at the same time keep up w' up to 24 (realistically 6 to 12) loops' tempos?

Answer me that, Bezzle, Soo, Sixx, or anyone else fighting tooth and nail to oppose this?

Are Y'all human cyborgs, with more than two hands, and multiple sets of eyes?

No, you're not.


this

Quote:

I guess I'm just not seeing the point of needing 24 loops running while you dj - and if you need it that much, then Ableton and Bridge is a much better option since you're not constrained to a set amount of loops.
dj_soo 10:11 PM - 11 April, 2011
once you start thinking loops and shit, that's pretty much the gateway drug to actual production.

so, yea, it's totally worth it :)
Rebelguy 10:12 PM - 11 April, 2011
How are you constrained on loops in Traktor? I used this loops...cool...eject and load new loop. Problem solved. Do you actually need access to more then 24 loops at the same time and would you run the same 24 the whole night?
StreetFighta 10:13 PM - 11 April, 2011
even if you dont see the point, why limit the potential of the program intentionally? Who's to say that 1 kid won't come up with some mindblowing shit using it even though 500,000 people are just playing sync'd up foghorn samples with it?
Rebelguy 10:13 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
once you start thinking loops and shit, that's pretty much the gateway drug to actual production.


That is if you have the time.
dj_soo 10:14 PM - 11 April, 2011
and here's the thing, if you need it so badly and you need it NOW then what's wrong with just switching over the Traktor? It's got the features you need and serato doesn't so there you go...

Fuck man $400 was how much I used to spend on vinyl in a month - it's not that much money in the long run... and the added functionality (i.e. bridge, production DAW, editing tracks, actually producing music) is well worth the money...
Rebelguy 10:24 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
and here's the thing, if you need it so badly and you need it NOW then what's wrong with just switching over the Traktor? It's got the features you need and serato doesn't so there you go...

Fuck man $400 was how much I used to spend on vinyl in a month - it's not that much money in the long run... and the added functionality (i.e. bridge, production DAW, editing tracks, actually producing music) is well worth the money...


Yes I easily spent $400 or more a month on vinyl and I have 12,000 + pieces of vinyl laying around my house to show for it. But now I am older, have a family, a mortgage, non-dj related expenses and other equipment I need to purchase. Honestly it's not that much of a money issue but I am not a fan of ableton. I already own Logic and Cubase. I see no reason to purchase another DAW software.

I already own the S4 but traktor's library management still sucks and the layout is still a mess. Those are more important to me then all the bells and whistles. Once they get it right I may switch.
ninjaty 10:28 PM - 11 April, 2011
Funny thing just happened.

My girl walks in and says, "What are you doing?"

Me, "On the serato forum"

Her, "What are yall talking about?"

I explain the situation in detail and she listens patiently.

I ask, "What do you think?"

Her, "Who cares? Wanna get some pizza tonight?" LOL

Guess I'm off to get pizza.
sixxx 10:37 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


The problem is that auto-sync degrades the PROFESSIONAL part of the software because like anything else, it will get misused.


That's funny...I don't think these guys have lost any of their professionalism due to using Traktor that has Auto Sync'd Decks & Sampler.

Carl Cox
Richie Hawtin
Marco Corola
Ida Engberg
Q-Bert
Chris Liebing
Joel Mull


Reading is fundamental. I didn't say PEOPLE. I said software.
sixxx 10:39 PM - 11 April, 2011
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Quote:


Listen an Auto-Sync'd SP-6 is not for cheezy Pop40 Drop Samples......it's for loops! How the fuck are you supposed to keep up w' 2, 3, or 4 deck's tempos, whilst at the same time keep up w' up to 24 (realistically 6 to 12) loops' tempos?

Answer me that, Bezzle, Soo, Sixx, or anyone else fighting tooth and nail to oppose this?

Are Y'all human cyborgs, with more than two hands, and multiple sets of eyes?

No, you're not.


this

Quote:



I guess I'm just not seeing the point of needing 24 loops running while you dj - and if you need it that much, then Ableton and Bridge is a much better option since you're not constrained to a set amount of loops.


Bingo
Free Man 11:06 PM - 11 April, 2011
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Funny thing just happened.

My girl walks in and says, "What are you doing?"

Me, "On the serato forum"

Her, "What are yall talking about?"

I explain the situation in detail and she listens patiently.

I ask, "What do you think?"

Her, "Who cares? Wanna get some pizza tonight?" LOL

Guess I'm off to get pizza.


Pizza = Beer at a strip club?
jepe 11:40 PM - 11 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Quote:




Listen an Auto-Sync'd SP-6 is not for cheezy Pop40 Drop Samples......it's for loops! How the fuck are you supposed to keep up w' 2, 3, or 4 deck's tempos, whilst at the same time keep up w' up to 24 (realistically 6 to 12) loops' tempos?

Answer me that, Bezzle, Soo, Sixx, or anyone else fighting tooth and nail to oppose this?

Are Y'all human cyborgs, with more than two hands, and multiple sets of eyes?

No, you're not.


this

Quote:





I guess I'm just not seeing the point of needing 24 loops running while you dj - and if you need it that much, then Ableton and Bridge is a much better option since you're not constrained to a set amount of loops.


Bingo

exactly.. and you just use it if you want and your imagination playing ask for it.
reggae delgado 12:25 AM - 12 April, 2011
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I already own Logic and Cubase. I see no reason to purchase another DAW software.

THat's exactly what I said! ...until I downloaded the 30 day free trial and realized that for a lot of what I wanted to do, ableton was ideal. And when I launched the bridge the first time, well that was pretty mind blowing. At the same time, I have never done anything more than play three decks and a few airhorns live in a club.
Rebelguy 12:33 AM - 12 April, 2011
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Quote:


I already own Logic and Cubase. I see no reason to purchase another DAW software.

THat's exactly what I said! ...until I downloaded the 30 day free trial and realized that for a lot of what I wanted to do, ableton was ideal. And when I launched the bridge the first time, well that was pretty mind blowing. At the same time, I have never done anything more than play three decks and a few airhorns live in a club.


I have tried it many times. Just not for me.
djchriscruz 1:25 AM - 12 April, 2011
I hope the Serato team is reading this thread. The Bridge and Sixty Eight have not been runaway hits. It's not a good look when Serato's big endorsers like Atrak and Enferno aren't even using their latest products. By now I'd expect to see some awesome sets made with a 68 and The Bridge but all I've seen is a 4 turntable set by Jrocc. Jrocc's set was cool but most of us aren't going to rush to buy a 68 for the sake of using 4 turntables.

Craze's, Qberts, and Shiftee's Traktor videos have really sparked my curiosity about trying Traktor. They've been making a hard run at capturing the DVS and controller market. If Traktor keeps up their customer service and doesn't drop the ball like Stanton and Torq I could really see them overtaking Serato.

I've been a happy Serato customer since 2005 because of their awesome customer service and regular updates. But if there's something else that gives me more features and possibilities for my money I will switch. In the late 90's I never thought another mixer brand would overtake Vestax. I think it's good that there is competition. Hopefully Serato has an answer to Traktors onslaught of marketing and products.
AKIEM 2:24 AM - 12 April, 2011
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I can't resist to argue with AKIEM ;)

you can beatmatch perfectly but you need 0,01 or less pitch, no cdj has that. so after looooong time. it will go away, you will have to correct it and that's the matter.

That's the point a lot of people are missing, problem is not to beatmatch, problem is to keep sync perfect for infinite time.
if you mix tracks during 30 sec, you don't need auto. sometimes i keep tracks running for 5 min, and during this time i don't want to take care of adjusting sync, i want to play with others thing, effects, loops, etc.


well even auto-sync if its just matching bpm wont stay synced 'infinitely' - just saying;)

but the more obvious solution is to have SSL reveal two decimal places so you can more accurately dial it in (if its causing you that big of a problem)

Notice that Serato has proactively resisted that decimal place. For one, it shows the inaccuracy of the turntable which confuses some people. But it also shows the purpose of the software is NOT button pushing - it is vinyl emulation.

Quit trying to change the software into something OTHER then what its main purpose is.


Secondly, I have been playing around with my beatport tracks recently (when I get to it, I want to be able to spin edm) - What I have found is that using the turntables 'fuzyness' is preferred over the exactness of dialing in bpms. It actually makes it easier to blend - there is a 'wider space' that the inprecision gives you. AND - I like the way the tracks drift a little - that nudging becomes a dynamic addition and even acts as its own little creative effect. It gives it the liveness. And that flange sound with doubles -sick. Perfectly synced tracks just sound stale to me. There is no natural movement there - and they actually moe out of sync sooner then the less precise turntables.
AKIEM 2:26 AM - 12 April, 2011
auto-sync is a gimmick - pure and simple


(unless its for the SP-6)
thebuttonfreak 4:45 AM - 12 April, 2011
real djs can hit pads in time.
blackavenger 5:05 AM - 12 April, 2011
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The problem I have is that the SP-6 could give us just about the same functionality without having to spend an additional $700 or so to get it.


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actually, it's only $500 and it comes with 2 licenses so you can easily split it with a friend :)


I was referring to the cost of the software and a controller.......Ableton + APC40 and/or Novation Launchpad.
blackavenger 5:06 AM - 12 April, 2011
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Reading is fundamental. I didn't say PEOPLE. I said software.


You're right, Sixxx.......I misread your comment.
dj_soo 5:17 AM - 12 April, 2011
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Quote:


The problem I have is that the SP-6 could give us just about the same functionality without having to spend an additional $700 or so to get it.


Quote:


actually, it's only $500 and it comes with 2 licenses so you can easily split it with a friend :)


I was referring to the cost of the software and a controller.......Ableton + APC40 and/or Novation Launchpad.


so if you get Traktor you'll still need a decent midi controller or 2 to get the most out of it - like an X1 and maybe Machine or a MPD32 - same shit, different pile.

you also don't *have* to get an apc or a launchpad - there's plenty of midi controllers that will work fine.
blackavenger 5:21 AM - 12 April, 2011
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Fuck man $400 was how much I used to spend on vinyl in a month - it's not that much money in the long run... and the added functionality (i.e. bridge, production DAW, editing tracks, actually producing music) is well worth the money...


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Yes I easily spent $400 or more a month on vinyl and I have 12,000 + pieces of vinyl laying around my house to show for it. But now I am older, have a family, a mortgage, non-dj related expenses and other equipment I need to purchase.


I too used to spend hundreds on vinyl back in the day......I too have thousands of records on shelves to prove it. But, I'm also older now, a single father, with shitloads of bills and responsibility that comes 1st before DJ related expenses. Hell, I have told many people throughout the years......if it were not for ScratchLIVE, I wouldn't be a DJ anymore. I simply could not afford to spend more than the $3 to $5 for a digital release, as opposed to $12 to $16 on a vinyl release like I did in the past. I am soooooo grateful for the invention of DVS, believe me.
blackavenger 5:30 AM - 12 April, 2011
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so if you get Traktor you'll still need a decent midi controller or 2 to get the most out of it - like an X1 and maybe Machine or a MPD32 - same shit, different pile.



I NEVER said I wanted to get Traktor2. I have been demoing it, as i have a Korg Zero4, and it's Traktor Scratch Certified. I still have the vinyl from when I owned TSP before, so it's costing me nothing to evaluate it.

No, I love ScratchLIVE & ITCH, and want to see Serato add this functionality to the DVS I prefer to use. Traktor still doesn't sit right w' me. It still doesn't have the natural flow that ScratchLIVE has.

I'm going to stop arguing about this. It's apparent to any mods that might be reading this thread that there are loyal users that are requesting these features. It's a shame I can't convince a few of you how great of a compromise this functionality would be for the SP-6, but I just don't have the time/energy to continually beat this dead horse.
dj_soo 5:33 AM - 12 April, 2011
meh - i for one actually wouldn't mind seeing a similar functionality in the SP-6 - stuff like that was what I was expecting the Bridge to be when it first launched...

That said, I would personally prefer to see it incorporated in the Bridge just because the features will be *way* more robust than just implementing a synced loop in the SP-6
echa1945mf 5:41 AM - 12 April, 2011
hahhahahahahahahahahaha
nik39 6:03 AM - 12 April, 2011
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Sync can only make you a better dj as far as matching beats. It will not teach you about levels. It will not teach you about how to use your eq to tune a mix. Also, if you can't read a crowd you will still suck. I could care less if Serato makes a bunch of money off people that think they can be instant DJs. That means they will stay in business. Those people will get weeded out eventually and sell all their expensive toys at bargain basement prices.

You know that this will in general lower the current wages for DJ's.
rlaci 8:15 AM - 12 April, 2011
I LOVE Serato forums with concurent ADDS on it
i'm still using the old sl1 box without any issues and i like its reliability
as always there will be problems with the native software i think and the biggest pain in the ass is to register theirs program to overcome the limitation. i'm really happy that i can install easyly on any comp the serato without any limitation if my comp just brokedown and after native being the manufacturer for the unit now too i can not understand more and the last thing WHAT ARE THEASE ADDS ON YOUTUBE FROM TRAKTOR????? they want to make from everybody a fuckin MICROWAVE DJ or what???
I CAN NOT RESPECT A COMPANY WHO HAS NO RESPECT FOR THEIR USERS even if they have the best product in the market
StreetFighta 1:04 PM - 12 April, 2011
Quote:
I LOVE Serato forums with concurent ADDS on it
i'm still using the old sl1 box without any issues and i like its reliability
as always there will be problems with the native software i think and the biggest pain in the ass is to register theirs program to overcome the limitation. i'm really happy that i can install easyly on any comp the serato without any limitation if my comp just brokedown and after native being the manufacturer for the unit now too i can not understand more and the last thing WHAT ARE THEASE ADDS ON YOUTUBE FROM TRAKTOR????? they want to make from everybody a fuckin MICROWAVE DJ or what???
I CAN NOT RESPECT A COMPANY WHO HAS NO RESPECT FOR THEIR USERS even if they have the best product in the market


.......wait what?
Rebelguy 2:15 PM - 12 April, 2011
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Quote:


Sync can only make you a better dj as far as matching beats. It will not teach you about levels. It will not teach you about how to use your eq to tune a mix. Also, if you can't read a crowd you will still suck. I could care less if Serato makes a bunch of money off people that think they can be instant DJs. That means they will stay in business. Those people will get weeded out eventually and sell all their expensive toys at bargain basement prices.

You know that this will in general lower the current wages for DJ's.


It's not like it's a new concept. As soon as music became more widespread on medias besides vinyl then prices started dropping. I see the DJ as a promoter situation as a bigger problem at this time.
DJ Sniffles 4:01 PM - 12 April, 2011
The coolest shit....

1. Load Beatslicer, S3-Pattern 4 I think?
2. Record loop, throw in sampler
3. Apply hp filter, and drop a drum,bass and minimal lead loop on top
4. Apply filter and autobounce (transpose at 0) and create huge buid up
5. Drop massive track
6. ?????
7. Profit
reggae delgado 4:05 PM - 12 April, 2011
Quote:
The coolest shit....

1. Load Beatslicer, S3-Pattern 4 I think?
2. Record loop, throw in sampler
3. Apply hp filter, and drop a drum,bass and minimal lead loop on top
4. Apply filter and autobounce (transpose at 0) and create huge buid up
5. Drop massive track
6. ?????
7. Profit


Let's see it!
sixxx 4:59 PM - 12 April, 2011
I like this right here:

"But it also shows the purpose of the software is NOT button pushing - it is vinyl emulation."
thebuttonfreak 6:46 PM - 12 April, 2011
Who cares what the software was originally meant for. That's a stupid argument. It has not only evolved into more people are pushing the limits and using it in way unintended. Not only is it ok to do that, it's how the entire art of the dj evolved.
thebuttonfreak 6:48 PM - 12 April, 2011
meant to say 'people are pushing the limits and using it in way that it wasn't intended for'
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:59 PM - 12 April, 2011
Quote:
meant to say 'people are pushing the limits and using it in way that it wasn't intended for'



how so??
CMOS 7:03 PM - 12 April, 2011
Did i really just read that people want the software to drop the samples on beat for them?

Is counting to 4 really that hard?
skinnyguy 7:21 PM - 12 April, 2011
1....2...3....squirrel!!!
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:31 PM - 12 April, 2011
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1....2...3....squirrel!!!



LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:32 PM - 12 April, 2011
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Did i really just read that people want the software to drop the samples on beat for them?

Is counting to 4 really that hard?



counting to 4 is way to time consuming, i mean its so easy that anyone can do it so why should i, imagine how creative i could be with all that extra time, in that 4 seconds i could be playing all the major pop songs at once while dropping multiple multilayered effected samples
djcrap 7:57 PM - 12 April, 2011
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Quote:


Did i really just read that people want the software to drop the samples on beat for them?

Is counting to 4 really that hard?



counting to 4 is way to time consuming, i mean its so easy that anyone can do it so why should i, imagine how creative i could be with all that extra time, in that 4 seconds i could be playing all the major pop songs at once while dropping multiple multilayered effected samples


really have you ever hard of some one/a crowd requesting the remix of a song?
all i know is they get mad if you play the remix instead of the original song!
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:03 PM - 12 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Quote:



Did i really just read that people want the software to drop the samples on beat for them?

Is counting to 4 really that hard?



counting to 4 is way to time consuming, i mean its so easy that anyone can do it so why should i, imagine how creative i could be with all that extra time, in that 4 seconds i could be playing all the major pop songs at once while dropping multiple multilayered effected samples


really have you ever hard of some one/a crowd requesting the remix of a song?
all i know is they get mad if you play the remix instead of the original song!


are you saying crowds dont like creativity...wow this is gettin squirly quick
CMOS 8:10 PM - 12 April, 2011
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1....2...3....squirrel!!!



Im gonna use that to teach ppl.

Squirrel 2 3 4, Squirrel 2 3 4....

ALWAYS DROP ON THE SQUIRREL!!!!
DjWoody 8:14 PM - 12 April, 2011
This whole thread took a fucken shit a long time ago. You guys are just going in circles. If you like Traktor, awesome. If you like Serato, even better! Use what works for YOU best and don't worry about the other DJ's and what they think. They're not the ones paying you. With whatever tools you decided to use, just worry about putting out an awesome show!
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:16 PM - 12 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:

1....2...3....squirrel!!!



Im gonna use that to teach ppl.

Squirrel 2 3 4, Squirrel 2 3 4....

ALWAYS DROP ON THE SQUIRREL!!!!



monkeymatters.com

holdmyticket.com
StreetFighta 8:17 PM - 12 April, 2011
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This whole thread took a fucken shit a long time ago. You guys are just going in circles. If you like Traktor, awesome. If you like Serato, even better! Use what works for YOU best and don't worry about the other DJ's and what they think. They're not the ones paying you. With whatever tools you decided to use, just worry about putting out an awesome show!


yeah this thread has been done since about the 7th haha
CMOS 8:18 PM - 12 April, 2011
It was over as soon as he wrote the word Unbiased.

Not that he isnt but cmon son, this is the innernetz.
StreetFighta 8:29 PM - 12 April, 2011
I thought it was a pretty accurate review and coming from traktor to Scratch Live I know the strengths, and weaknesses of both programs fairly well. (at least to me)
RogerRabbit 8:31 PM - 12 April, 2011
All the sync features are being added to Itch - even the GUI is now made to look like ssl... My prediction Itch will eventually get vinyl control and be that all-in-one software like tracktor and vdj..and the itch product sales will eventually surpass ssl sales..
thebuttonfreak 8:33 PM - 12 April, 2011
My point is that Dj's use their equipment in ways it wasn't intended for all the time. It's actually an essential part of the culture. Was SSL created with the intention of being used as a vinyl or cd controller without autasync or whatever....yes. Is that a legitimate argument for why it shouldn't change/evolve into something else i.e. an all internal dj software....no. If it's what the users want then it should go there, change evolve etc...These arguments are really about what we want as users, not about what the program "should" be in your eyes. It's dj software, no need to canonize it.

Quote:
Quote:


meant to say 'people are pushing the limits and using it in way that it wasn't intended for'



how so??
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:35 PM - 12 April, 2011
Quote:

Is that a legitimate argument for why it shouldn't change/evolve into something else i.e. an all internal dj software....no.


you are absolutley right.....thats why itch exists
StreetFighta 8:40 PM - 12 April, 2011
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Quote:



Is that a legitimate argument for why it shouldn't change/evolve into something else i.e. an all internal dj software....no.


you are absolutley right.....thats why itch exists


one of the best parts of traktor is the flexibility. One day I'm playing on a full setup, the next im just running a midi controller, same program.

same features, just different choice of controls.

If itch offered the ability to use DVS functions on top of its midi. opened up mapping, and had all the features of Scratch Live, then your statement would be spot on
thebuttonfreak 8:49 PM - 12 April, 2011
Itch is a fine product and I would use it happily if I wasn't tied to one of the Itch controllers. I like to make my own mapping with my own controller. For me to want Itch they would have to create a standalone Itch soundcard and allow midi mapping to external controllers... or give SSL an internal mixer and midi out. I don't really care which it is I would be happy with either of those solutions.

And let me get out ahead of the "then go buy Traktor you fag" type of comment. Not only do I think serato is a better product but it's also what I'm used to and IMO that's a good enough reason for me or anybody else to come on here and throw in their 2 cents.
thebuttonfreak 8:51 PM - 12 April, 2011
And I downloaded Traktor 2 the other day. It's a really cool program but SSL still has my heart...for now.
Joshua Carl 11:18 PM - 12 April, 2011
salt in the wound:

www.residentadvisor.net
skinnyguy 11:35 PM - 12 April, 2011
i'd be a happy camper if ssl could be mapped to the pioneer s1.
Free Man 11:35 PM - 12 April, 2011
Quote:
salt in the wound:

www.residentadvisor.net


damn...

suggested retail price of $1,899
RogerRabbit 12:55 AM - 13 April, 2011
So I can get TSP2 for $599 with the audio 10 and inlcuded vinyl for $100 less than the sl3? I wanna upgrade, with serato.. But the tsp2 may be a steal..
DjWoody 1:19 AM - 13 April, 2011
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So I can get TSP2 for $599 with the audio 10 and inlcuded vinyl for $100 less than the sl3? I wanna upgrade, with serato.. But the tsp2 may be a steal..


You can get it even cheaper if you are a student.
AKIEM 1:27 AM - 13 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


So I can get TSP2 for $599 with the audio 10 and inlcuded vinyl for $100 less than the sl3? I wanna upgrade, with serato.. But the tsp2 may be a steal..


You can get it even cheaper if you are a stud.


wow - ok
RogerRabbit 3:57 AM - 13 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


So I can get TSP2 for $599 with the audio 10 and inlcuded vinyl for $100 less than the sl3? I wanna upgrade, with serato.. But the tsp2 may be a steal..


You can get it even cheaper if you are a student.

Info please..
sixxx 1:48 PM - 13 April, 2011
lol @ squirrel!

hahahahaha



nm
DjWoody 2:36 PM - 13 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Quote:




So I can get TSP2 for $599 with the audio 10 and inlcuded vinyl for $100 less than the sl3? I wanna upgrade, with serato.. But the tsp2 may be a steal..


You can get it even cheaper if you are a student.

Info please..


Here you go. NI's Educational Discount.
www.native-instruments.com
DjWoody 2:39 PM - 13 April, 2011
Oh. I forgot, there's one more discount. If you already own Traktor Scratch Pro, you can do a hardware upgrade for $449.
RogerRabbit 3:18 PM - 13 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Quote:




Quote:






So I can get TSP2 for $599 with the audio 10 and inlcuded vinyl for $100 less than the sl3? I wanna upgrade, with serato.. But the tsp2 may be a steal..


You can get it even cheaper if you are a student.

Info please..


Here you go. NI's Educational Discount.
www.native-instruments.com

Thanks...
nik39 11:43 PM - 13 April, 2011
Read the fine print. You are not allowed to use the license commercially and something like upgrades are not possible IIRC.
Phil3345 1:28 PM - 14 April, 2011
I Love these discussions/comparisons/arguments.The simple truth is you pay your money and make your choice!I have tried vdj didnt like it, didnt like the way it searched its database and it was unstable- only used it for 2 months.Tried Traktor liked the filters and effects in it but didnt like the layout of the gui then borrowed Serato off a fellow DJ used it for 1 night then bought it the next day.We all have our preferences mine was Serato. Ive just ordered the new mbp upgraded so im going to try video mixing as I have 2 Big screens in my venue.
All I need now is some help on the "Squirrel Technique"
Mr. Goodkat 8:37 PM - 16 April, 2011
ive tried it for a week, its good, but i wouldnt feel comfortable for about 6 months to play out professionally. serato(which ive used since late 06) is just second hand to me now, like super easy, no thought.


that being said traktor would be much harder for me to learn out of the box, especially to take advantage of all the features. stuff like beat gridding is cool, but adds another step to adding new tracks. and its not just another 'drag on analyze files step' its a time consuming process due to the need of making sure things are perfectly aligned. its alot like ableton and serato, but obviously less features of ableton, more than serato.

its cool. still think that serato has an edge as a dj software for just going out and djing. which is what 99% of us do.
Will Love 11:32 PM - 19 April, 2011
I haven't messed with serato since I got tsp2. Straighten your loops in a deck first and you'll have no problem with any sync or sound quality. Much more streamlined than the bridge. But I'm waiting on an acquaintance to make a bridge osc template and well see what my xone 4d will do with that. Tsp2 may be a little more CPU hungry, but compared to the limitation of using the sl3 and not using two different cards hurts using the bridge more so. Idk.
Dj Ace 1:15 AM - 20 April, 2011
you don't have to use two different sound cards with a 57/68
Will Love 1:20 AM - 20 April, 2011
sucks for me then, it to my knowledge only lets me use the sly with the bridge going. overtime I try and select a diff one in abe it’s greyed out.
thebuttonfreak 2:39 AM - 20 April, 2011
I gave the bridge the attention it deserved last weekend and it's amazing. F*ck a sample dek. How about live with all it's effects!
Dj Ace 2:41 AM - 20 April, 2011
hell yeah ^^^^
Will Love 1:49 PM - 20 April, 2011
I use that setup myself. just discussing the cpu usage of both programs versus one. any relevant input?
snob dee-jays 3:38 PM - 20 April, 2011
Quote:
I gave the bridge the attention it deserved last weekend and it's amazing. F*ck a sample dek. How about live with all it's effects!


yeah, just prepare some loops and drum machine's.
and away you go.
but its pricey thou...
Will Love 4:13 PM - 20 April, 2011
It'd be great if I could use the xone 4d for ableton and the sl3 for serato instead of both programs using the sl3.
thebuttonfreak 7:33 PM - 20 April, 2011
I have a macbook 15 inch 2010 so as far as power goes I don't have any problems.

Quote:
I use that setup myself. just discussing the cpu usage of both programs versus one. any relevant input?
thebuttonfreak 7:34 PM - 20 April, 2011
You can I think. Just go into preferences in Abe and switch your output to xone 4d. I have it taking input from a separate sound card.

Quote:
It'd be great if I could use the xone 4d for ableton and the sl3 for serato instead of both programs using the sl3.
dj_soo 8:29 PM - 20 April, 2011
Quote:
It'd be great if I could use the xone 4d for ableton and the sl3 for serato instead of both programs using the sl3.


You could do that but you'd have to run ableton as a separate program instead of using the bridge... It would be much more robust tho since you could use all of able ton's features instead of the neutered bridge versioon
Rob Pointer 8:32 PM - 20 April, 2011
why is the Bridge considered neutered?
DJBIGWIZ 8:40 PM - 20 April, 2011
Quote:
why is the Bridge considered neutered?

yeah... with the bridge, you have all of Abletons features plus the Bridge features
dj_soo 8:41 PM - 20 April, 2011
You can't use most of the cool live performance features in ableton yet. You can only really launch sync'd clips and use effects and you can't add audio on the fly - you have to pre prepare all your loops and clips to existing projects. Right now it's just an sp6 on steroids. Once they start adding some of the crazy live looping and performance features, it'll take it over the edge...
DJBIGWIZ 9:05 PM - 20 April, 2011
Quote:
You can't use most of the cool live performance features in ableton yet. You can only really launch sync'd clips and use effects and you can't add audio on the fly - you have to pre prepare all your loops and clips to existing projects. Right now it's just an sp6 on steroids. Once they start adding some of the crazy live looping and performance features, it'll take it over the edge...

I made a vid showing how you can send the signal from SSL to LIVE, process it with VSTs and then send that signal back into the bridge... no reason you couldn't throw the LIVE looper on the audio track and record it and play it back through the bridge.
dj_soo 9:30 PM - 20 April, 2011
again, I want that functionality within bridge itself. I actually prefer run everything into a 2nd computer so that I have even more control but that's a pain in the ass to setup...
DJBIGWIZ 9:33 PM - 20 April, 2011
Quote:
again, I want that functionality within bridge itself.

aight... I got you
Rob Pointer 11:25 PM - 20 April, 2011
I doubt that will happen. The Bridge is a link between two programs and I think the moment you talk integration like that it becomes a different beast altogether.

You might as well take traktor's route with their HW solution at that point IMO.

I could be wrong because I don't know what the next iteration of the Bridge may or may not look like, but if that's going to happen, I suspect it will occur more tightly with Itch than it will with SSL.
Dj Ace 12:20 AM - 21 April, 2011
we ALL know it going to happen....LOL
Dj Ace 12:21 AM - 21 April, 2011
and the bridge between two programs gives you the power of BOTH programs at your finger tips along with video mixing you cannot compare even compare traktor
Free Man 12:34 AM - 21 April, 2011
If you use Traktor, you may find yourself just playing with sticks...
2.bp.blogspot.com


nm
the_black_one 12:38 AM - 21 April, 2011
Quote:
If you use Traktor, you may find yourself just playing with sticks...
2.bp.blogspot.com


nm



lol......jajajajajajajaja
Will Love 9:01 AM - 21 April, 2011
why is it that so many big names use internal midi to route traktor into ableton like say ritchie hawtin or deadmau5. like their style or not there setups are frekkn brilliant whatever style you like. that is some crazy kit. and all of that operates lights, video. not traktor by itself, but ableton sure. I don’t see serato scratch having much of a future, but I do in itch. cdjs will be a niche culture like turntables are now and itch is the one with sync. as purist as I am I don’t see a ‘Deck’ of any sort having a future. cdj 2000s are the last grasp.
all I’m saying is keep an open mind and don’t put all your eggs in one basket.
AKIEM 10:01 AM - 21 April, 2011
1200s is still here
Free Man 2:14 PM - 21 April, 2011
Quote:
1200s is still here


M5G FTW!!
Will Love 3:41 PM - 21 April, 2011
Yea, that's not what I meant. I get the free catalogue in the mail. I know they still sell 1200s. Lol. Not for long. I don't know the extent but I know panasonic is taking them off the production line. 1200s will be here forever, but the nu crowd won't. that's what I'm saying..... A niche culture, soon to follow, cdjs. I had a thought a few years earlier that we'd get to common place DVD sound quality players(standard) and even get to blu ray. But none of it's going to happen. The world is going "medium" less and the scene is moving forward to all in one controllers/controllers of software, or controllers that replace a record player to interface with a computer. I don't like it but the facts aren't always what I'd like them to be.
Honestly, your mix is coming out of a sound card, techs are mearly controllers sending a simple 1khz or whatever sound through, and a very unstable signal compared to any other method at that. Leave room to grow. One thing that is supposed to be one of ranes strong suits is compatibility. 14 times now I've rolled up to a gig and stepping off after my set watching the dj complain about how his computer always has problems using other sl1/3 cards whilst leaving his at home, And I've had the same problem. This is confirmed all over the east coast. What's the deal with that? Stability and rock solid performance is what sold me, seratos claim to fame. But nope. That was the one thing that serato had, it being such a SMALL program was it worked all the time. Ahh I might have to purchase a rane 68 just to find out. Naaaaa I'll stick with my xone 4d.
Fumio Ohtsubo President, Panasonic Corporation 3:50 PM - 21 April, 2011
Quote:
Yea, that's not what I meant. I get the free catalogue in the mail. I know they still sell 1200s. Lol. Not for long. I don't know the extent but I know panasonic is taking them off the production line.


hoo tell u dis, u no no noting boot wat u speek, u no mor speek un topik kaws u speek lyees
Will Love 4:30 PM - 21 April, 2011
rotfl!
Rob Pointer 5:12 PM - 21 April, 2011
I'm pretty sure installed DJ mixer have peaked in their necessity these days.

Pretty much they will end up being simple pass through to house sound system as we all roll up with our audio card supplied controllers that have everything we need.

DJM-900nexus is like the last gasp for relevance IMO.
Rebelguy 6:55 PM - 21 April, 2011
Quote:


DJM-900nexus is like the last gasp for relevance IMO.


Yet it will sell better then any other mixer in the high end range, be installed in clubs throughout the world and showing up on top edm djs riders.
Rebelguy 6:56 PM - 21 April, 2011
Quote:
why is it that so many big names use internal midi to route traktor into ableton like say ritchie hawtin or deadmau5. like their style or not there setups are frekkn brilliant whatever style you like. that is some crazy kit. and all of that operates lights, video. not traktor by itself, but ableton sure. I don’t see serato scratch having much of a future, but I do in itch. cdjs will be a niche culture like turntables are now and itch is the one with sync. as purist as I am I don’t see a ‘Deck’ of any sort having a future. cdj 2000s are the last grasp.
all I’m saying is keep an open mind and don’t put all your eggs in one basket.


+1 to all of the above.
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:00 PM - 21 April, 2011
Quote:

don’t see serato scratch having much of a future, but I do in itch. cdjs will be a niche culture like turntables are now and itch is the one with sync.


what you said right here is 100% true......being a true profiessional and knowing your art is kinda a niche thing in a world full of bedroom djs and people just trying to get laid. I wouldnt mind being in the respected niche
Rob Pointer 7:51 PM - 21 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
DJM-900nexus is like the last gasp for relevance IMO.


Yet it will sell better then any other mixer in the high end range, be installed in clubs throughout the world and showing up on top edm djs riders.


Even it's name hints at this reality. Nexus. ;P

When they get around to updating this mixer what will the world look like then?

Everyone using their own all-in-one solution - or at least a majority of DJs anyway. Especially at the prices Pioneer charges.
Will Love 10:16 PM - 21 April, 2011
the xone db4 I think is aimed at that same high end last ditch club mixer market. the looping on each channel w/effects and filter switchable eq section got my attention.
I used to feel like one ‘niche’ was more respected than the others, and in my circles still does to some extent, but when we opened for an artist in our genre that we respected and he brought two 60$ midi controllers and his laptop letting ableton mix linearly while he just stood and tweaked the effects and triggered looper effects and whatnot, my perspective got ALOT wider. no one cares. no one. not the crowd, not the promoters or clubs. not the djs except maybe a few pissed djs bc they spent years being able to mix in 2 seconds by ear with a pitchfader.
but once I noticed, I saw it everywhere.
I still perform out with two cdjs and a mixer, no software unless I’m home doing netcasts, but I’m not blind and I see whats coming. keep up or keep out I feel this scene has always been. if you wont use the tech for advancement someone else will.
Dj-M.Bezzle 10:21 PM - 21 April, 2011
Quote:

we opened for an artist in our genre that we respected and he brought two 60$ midi controllers and his laptop letting ableton mix linearly while he just stood and tweaked the effects and triggered looper effects and whatnot,


I would feel let down and rippped off if i went to go see one of my favorite artists and he just stood there and let ableton mix and just twisted 2 knobs once and a while to make an effect happen
Will Love 10:22 PM - 21 April, 2011
we all were kinda shocked, but then we were more so when no one else was.
changing of the guard
Rob Pointer 11:23 PM - 21 April, 2011
the lesson there is use what works for you and what you hope to get out of the experience.

If every time you play, you want to challenge yourself and sweat a little, then use something that requires you to do that.

If you want something that does the above and has some variable execution to it (like how vinyl used to do, or whatnot), then go for that.

We are finally in an environment where we have the choice here to use what we want that gives us our desired experience while playing back music (at least digitally now).

The one's that phone it in, however, obviously have less care about the performance and either care about the money first and only... or are really about producing music at the studio and they have to be out there to make a living so why make it harder than it has to be.
Will Love 12:19 AM - 22 April, 2011
changing of the guard ;)
Dj-M.Bezzle 3:19 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
We are finally in an environment where we have the choice here to use what we want that gives us our desired experience while playing back music (at least digitally now)..



if your desired experience for playing back music is literally standing there not doing anything watching the computer mix then i suggest you go get an application to walmart or a new hobby
Dj-M.Bezzle 3:21 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
changing of the guard ;)

Quote:

The one's that phone it in, however, obviously have less care about the performance and either care about the money first and only...


pretty sad really, i dont see how people can be happy about this
Dj-M.Bezzle 3:25 PM - 22 April, 2011
Its like my day job, im constantly bragging to my friends how i dont do ANYTHING and get paid great for it, the reason i can say this proudly with a smile on my face is because i couldnt give a shit less about that job, let the computer do what it does and let me get my check. If thats gonna be primary attitude that the next gen has about DJin then i feel sorry for them because they are missing out on alot of fun
Dj-M.Bezzle 3:32 PM - 22 April, 2011
I fear the day I hear some kids arguing over who they think is the most talented DJ of 2020,

kidA: Man DJ bit is the BEST DJ IN THE WORLD

kidb: hell naw dj buttonpad is the illest

kidA: Man you crazy did you see how fast bit hits the button for the next track, its like hes typin on a keyboard man i bet he types at LEAST 180 words a minute

kidb: Are you serious, forget that man bits controller only has THREE flanger effects, buttonpad has the 2021 unit with SIX flangers an did you see the way he triggered the echo effect, man NOONE, and i mean NOONE triggers an echo like buttonpad, he just hits the button and its all like echo echo echo echo

kida: echos old news man its all about phased tape echo and bit has hit controller mapped out so when he hits his button it tape echos WITH a phaser, man when we saw him at pure we didnt know what was happening it was all whoommmp whoooomp echo echo whoooomp whooomp.....he was the BEST
Rob Pointer 4:10 PM - 22 April, 2011
It's hard to make a living at art. If you are a producer at home and selling tracks doesn't pay the bills, then you are forced to go out on tour (especially if people are offering you needed money.

So you ditch the complicated set up and do what you ultimately want - get people to know who you are and hear your music.

That's the producer type. Can't hate on them too hard.

But someone who is only a Dj and phones it in - they deserve to be criticized. Let others who have worked on their craft take their place because they don't deserve to be up there doing nothing for the music or artform. IMO of course.
Rob Pointer 4:11 PM - 22 April, 2011
Meaning: let the one's who have worked on being an artful Dj be up there working hard to make magic happen.

That last sentence wasn't clear.
DJJorel 4:18 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
Its like my day job, im constantly bragging to my friends how i dont do ANYTHING and get paid great for it, the reason i can say this proudly with a smile on my face is because i couldnt give a shit less about that job, let the computer do what it does and let me get my check. If thats gonna be primary attitude that the next gen has about DJin then i feel sorry for them because they are missing out on alot of fun


You must be in IT....because I'm the same way....lolz...
Dj-M.Bezzle 4:19 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Its like my day job, im constantly bragging to my friends how i dont do ANYTHING and get paid great for it, the reason i can say this proudly with a smile on my face is because i couldnt give a shit less about that job, let the computer do what it does and let me get my check. If thats gonna be primary attitude that the next gen has about DJin then i feel sorry for them because they are missing out on alot of fun


You must be in IT....because I'm the same way....lolz...



yup lol!!!!
Dj-M.Bezzle 4:22 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
It's hard to make a living at art. If you are a producer at home and selling tracks doesn't pay the bills, then you are forced to go out on tour (especially if people are offering you needed money.

So you ditch the complicated set up and do what you ultimately want - get people to know who you are and hear your music.

That's the producer type. Can't hate on them too hard.

But someone who is only a Dj and phones it in - they deserve to be criticized. Let others who have worked on their craft take their place because they don't deserve to be up there doing nothing for the music or artform. IMO of course.


Exactly, if you create a song, like lets say deadmou5, then yes use your controller because odds are thats the instrument you used to create your music and your in essence playing your music live back to the crowd the way you created it, thats a great experiene because your not watching a dj perform your watching an artist perform HIS creation the way he wants to present it, i applaud that. but if your a DJ and your playing someone elses music that you didnt create and your using a 2 button $50 plastic controller to just cue the song then your just a lazy piece of shit whos lowering the bar for everyone in multiple ways
ninjaty 4:32 PM - 22 April, 2011
See I think it raises the bar because its no longer going to be enough to stand up there and pretend its hard to play one song after another.
Dj-M.Bezzle 4:35 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
See I think it raises the bar because its no longer going to be enough to stand up there and pretend its hard to play one song after another.



how so when your in fact doing LESS work than the person pretending to do so?? Most top 40 mainstream (aka 90% of clubs) dont want to hear 18 loops and 12 layers of effects over the new Kei$ha track so your spending an initial investment of what $50 for your controller and your litterally standing in front of a computer pushing a button....that drives the artform down as it makes the DJs job look more trivial than it already does and it drives the cost down because A) the initial incestment cost is nil and the time invested in learning the craft is nil.

So where is the bar raised again??
ninjaty 4:57 PM - 22 April, 2011
So your an elitist? OK gotcha I seriously wouldnt have guessed that but whatever. Something has to be expensive for you to be good at it or its not cool?

LESS work? Not beat matching does not have to be less work. I still dont get why you guys think it is a big part of a dj's skills. It took me less than a month to be able to beat match two records decently. What makes the dj is learning how and when to mix not beat matching. I still stand that keeping two records matched is more of any equipment issue than anything.

You mainstream top 40 club djs are going to be replaced by computer systems anyway. Not tomorrow but sometime in the not so distant future. Mark my word.
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:08 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:

So your an elitist? OK gotcha I seriously wouldnt have guessed that but whatever. Something has to be expensive for you to be good at it or its not cool?


NO but it needs to be a quality piece of equipment and high end quality equipment is going to cost money, if your a construction worker your not going to go to a job iste with a fisher price my 1st tool kit set

Quote:
What makes the dj is learning how and when to mix not beat matching. I


so your saying a measure of a dj is knowing to mix out after the hook? Your right the bar will officially be raised, the cream will definatley flow to the top now......or is the level of a dj the amount of unneeded effects being layered on top of eachother??
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:11 PM - 22 April, 2011
I guess its an issue that this is a "fun" job, i need to be having AT LEAST as much fun as the people in the crowd and to me standing there with a korg kontrol doing absolutley nothing waiting for the phrase to end so i can hit the button ive been hovering over for the last 4 minutes is less of a fun activity as much as it is a punishent
DJJorel 5:17 PM - 22 April, 2011
Beatmatching is a big part of a DJ's skills. It's a fundamental part. Learning how and when to mix is also a big part of of DJing. My nephew is 10 yrs old and he can beatmatch. He is definitely not a DJ.

I have a lot of friends who want to "DJ" now. But they want to run a pirated version of Ableton and pick up a cheap MIDI controller. I tell them to go ahead and do it, but to really appreciate the art of it, they really should invest in decks and a mixer. I tell them that most people are tired of hearing 20 airhorns and drops over a 16 count loop of a song. Believe it or not, some people actually like hearing songs the way an artist or producer intended their audience to hear it.

I can dribble a basketball...which is a fundamental skill. Dribbling is also a huge part of Derrick Rose's game...that doesn't mean that I can play in the NBA...
ninjaty 5:21 PM - 22 April, 2011
Tools get cheaper. It is what it is.

"Mixing out of the hook", as you say, is where the bar is now. I think it is going to push people into more live production and remixing. To be the "cream" I think you are going to have to be more of a producer/dj and be able to translate that live.

Issue of fun, I hear you there. When I first started playing with a "buttonpushing" style I hated it. I had a hard time getting into a mix. I felt like riding turntables was kind of like riding the music like surfing, still do, and still play around on them. But then, I figured out how to cut and layer loops and samples and remixing. For me its equally fun, totally different kind of fun but fun. I feel it puts me closer to the music. Now I use my turntable setup as a scratch(lol) pad. I use it to sort out what songs go together and then I take those to ableton and traktor to really start fucking around.
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:21 PM - 22 April, 2011
Another thing is this, YES i am an elitiest, person A can say ya i know how to beatmatch its simple, but you look at their equipment and their running CDJs, ok ya you can beatmatch on a piece of equipment that has no WOW or Flutter but how good are you on vinyl where there is no BPM readout and you have to keep the track matched when there are outside elements involved, YES i think the person who can beatmatch by ear on vinyl is more talented and deserves more respect than the guy on CDJs because he is using more SKILL to do what he does, hes not RELYING on tech
ninjaty 5:22 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
Beatmatching is a big part of a DJ's skills. It's a fundamental part. Learning how and when to mix is also a big part of of DJing. My nephew is 10 yrs old and he can beatmatch. He is definitely not a DJ.

I have a lot of friends who want to "DJ" now. But they want to run a pirated version of Ableton and pick up a cheap MIDI controller. I tell them to go ahead and do it, but to really appreciate the art of it, they really should invest in decks and a mixer. I tell them that most people are tired of hearing 20 airhorns and drops over a 16 count loop of a song. Believe it or not, some people actually like hearing songs the way an artist or producer intended their audience to hear it.

I can dribble a basketball...which is a fundamental skill. Dribbling is also a huge part of Derrick Rose's game...that doesn't mean that I can play in the NBA...


You are making my point for me. Thanks
ninjaty 5:24 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
Another thing is this, YES i am an elitiest, person A can say ya i know how to beatmatch its simple, but you look at their equipment and their running CDJs, ok ya you can beatmatch on a piece of equipment that has no WOW or Flutter but how good are you on vinyl where there is no BPM readout and you have to keep the track matched when there are outside elements involved, YES i think the person who can beatmatch by ear on vinyl is more talented and deserves more respect than the gu


The guy who can blacksmith some horseshoes and put them on a horse deserves more respect than the guy who changes the tires on my car but if I had to pick one to disappear of the face of the earth...
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:24 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
Tools get cheaper. It is what it is.

"Mixing out of the hook", as you say, is where the bar is now. I think it is going to push people into more live production and remixing. To be the "cream" I think you are going to have to be more of a producer/dj and be able to translate that live.

Issue of fun, I hear you there. When I first started playing with a "buttonpushing" style I hated it. I had a hard time getting into a mix. I felt like riding turntables was kind of like riding the music like surfing, still do, and still play around on them. But then, I figured out how to cut and layer loops and samples and remixing. For me its equally fun, totally different kind of fun but fun. I feel it puts me closer to the music. Now I use my turntable setup as a scratch(lol) pad. I use it to sort out what songs go together and then I take those to ableton and traktor to really start fucking around.



I feel you here, see when i got into DJing i was spinning nothing but breakbeats and using CD players, it was fun at first but to me it got borring so i made the switch (before SL) to turntables and opted to expand my range to hiphop and pop ect ect because those genres require you to do more than sit there for hours songs that are premade to me mixed and all are in the same 5 BPM of each other.

I think what your talking about though isnt a DJ its a producer who plays his music moreso than a club DJ, there is definatley a much smaller audience for that on a national level.
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:25 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Another thing is this, YES i am an elitiest, person A can say ya i know how to beatmatch its simple, but you look at their equipment and their running CDJs, ok ya you can beatmatch on a piece of equipment that has no WOW or Flutter but how good are you on vinyl where there is no BPM readout and you have to keep the track matched when there are outside elements involved, YES i think the person who can beatmatch by ear on vinyl is more talented and deserves more respect than the gu


The guy who can blacksmith some horseshoes and put them on a horse deserves more respect than the guy who changes the tires on my car but if I had to pick one to disappear of the face of the earth...



you say that as someone who dosent own a horse where there are ALOT of people on the earth who would pick the car tire guy to dissappear
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:27 PM - 22 April, 2011
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Quote:
Beatmatching is a big part of a DJ's skills. It's a fundamental part. Learning how and when to mix is also a big part of of DJing. My nephew is 10 yrs old and he can beatmatch. He is definitely not a DJ.

I have a lot of friends who want to "DJ" now. But they want to run a pirated version of Ableton and pick up a cheap MIDI controller. I tell them to go ahead and do it, but to really appreciate the art of it, they really should invest in decks and a mixer. I tell them that most people are tired of hearing 20 airhorns and drops over a 16 count loop of a song. Believe it or not, some people actually like hearing songs the way an artist or producer intended their audience to hear it.

I can dribble a basketball...which is a fundamental skill. Dribbling is also a huge part of Derrick Rose's game...that doesn't mean that I can play in the NBA...


You are making my point for me. Thanks


how is he proving your point when he says people want to hear the ORIGINAL song, not a remix with tons of samples and effects, which is what you are talking about being the hot new thing
ninjaty 5:28 PM - 22 April, 2011
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YES i am an elitiest


This could be used against you in many of your other arguments by the way. LOL ;)
ninjaty 5:30 PM - 22 April, 2011
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I think what your talking about though isnt a DJ its a producer who plays his music moreso than a club DJ, there is definatley a much smaller audience for that on a national level.


Thats what I think the new bar should be. If you think its redefining dj so be it but whatever you call it at least we are on some level of understanding.
ninjaty 5:31 PM - 22 April, 2011
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you say that as someone who dosent own a horse where there are ALOT of people on the earth who would pick the car tire guy to dissappear


I see where you are going with this but in the context of this statement, owning a horse is a step back not forward.
ninjaty 5:33 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
I think what your talking about though isnt a DJ its a producer who plays his music moreso than a club DJ, there is definatley a much smaller audience for that on a national level.


And like I said before, the days of "club djs" are numbered.
ninjaty 5:38 PM - 22 April, 2011
^^^For the record, I'm not talking about your celebrity or touring club djs. I'm talking about your day to day grind resident big club djs.
DJJorel 5:47 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
I think what your talking about though isnt a DJ its a producer who plays his music moreso than a club DJ, there is definatley a much smaller audience for that on a national level.


And like I said before, the days of "club djs" are numbered.


I tend to disagree with this. This might apply to those venues that hold 2000+ and can afford to have Deadmau5 and Tiesto come out an play for an hour or so.

The reality is that most venues are not like this. Most venues out there will hold around 500 at the most, and they make a hell of a lot more money at the bar than anything else. What does that mean? These owners like it when they can pay a good DJ who can come in and vibe the crowd so they can have a good time, buy drinks, and not want to leave until after last call. That is why they hire a resident, and I don't think that is going away anytime soon.

More than a few times, I have been to a venue where a big name DJ came out to perform, and the owner was pissed because they were watching the DJ and not buying drinks. When the high profile DJ was done, the crowd just left...

In all honesty, if I were a club owner...I would rather have a crowd of 350 who is constantly buying drinks, than to have a crowd of 500 who only stays for the headliner...
StreetFighta 5:48 PM - 22 April, 2011
www.digitaldjtips.com

this article is pretty good. and the discussions it links to

Quote:

Learning to please an audience and please yourself at the same time, to me, is the DJ’s holy grail.

If you can do that with two decks and a mixer, great (although that set-up ultimately bored me personally). Or if you feel you want to experiment with every new technology and technique under the sun, equally good.
ninjaty 5:48 PM - 22 April, 2011
One more thing then I'm off to lunch. I totally agree on the whole turntable cdj thing. I think there is a place in the future for turntables but I cannot see the point of cdjs at all. If you already owned and invested in one I understand still trying to use it I guess but with all the new controllers that basically act just like a cdj without the cd. Why the fuck would you need to put that cd in there? Nostalgia?

If I owned cdjs I would be selling them NOW while they are still worth something.
ninjaty 5:50 PM - 22 April, 2011
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Quote:
Quote:
I think what your talking about though isnt a DJ its a producer who plays his music moreso than a club DJ, there is definatley a much smaller audience for that on a national level.


And like I said before, the days of "club djs" are numbered.


I tend to disagree with this. This might apply to those venues that hold 2000+ and can afford to have Deadmau5 and Tiesto come out an play for an hour or so.

The reality is that most venues are not like this. Most venues out there will hold around 500 at the most, and they make a hell of a lot more money at the bar than anything else. What does that mean? These owners like it when they can pay a good DJ who can come in and vibe the crowd so they can have a good time, buy drinks, and not want to leave until after last call. That is why they hire a resident, and I don't think that is going away anytime soon.

More than a few times, I have been to a venue where a big name DJ came out to perform, and the owner was pissed because they were watching the DJ and not buying drinks. When the high profile DJ was done, the crowd just left...

In all honesty, if I were a club owner...I would rather have a crowd of 350 who is constantly buying drinks, than to have a crowd of 500 who only stays for the headliner...


Not going to be replaced by deadmau5 or tiesto but by computer systems.
Will Love 6:44 PM - 22 April, 2011
Haha. This convo went tits. One thing I don't get though. Cdjs are a step backward from techs? No way in hell. 100% or more sound quality improvement. No needle that looses fidelity every play and skips( a needle? What are we in 1845?) multiple songs incl. ability to burn mp3. They provide a MUCH more stable clock signal, which is very important/essential when syncing to other software. ableton is a great example. Every tutorial says if you're spinning and syncing at least use a cdj. The pitch waiver is much less and the pitch fader is adjustable from 6, 10, 16 and wide (+/-100%) with a key lock for drastic audio bending when running wav audio(which still out performs any soundcard ive heard on a big soundsystem, and thats been semi proven by a sound engineer at one of the biggest and best sounding clubs testing fidelity ive ever been to. Still to this day ive spun on techs longer (djing 17 years to the day in a week or so) but i wouldnt trade cdj 1000s or above for anything older. If you spin a breakbeat of any sort you know a cdjs bpm isnt a replacement to a sync feature. Not even close and far from exact or dead on accurate. I can be on '140' exact and be perfectly tempomatched and sync'd with the second cdj at a reading of 141.4.
If I'm using a turntable I'm playing actual pressed and released vinyl. I still play on techs with real vinyl. No time code. But comparing them to cdjs is like comparing a baseball bat to a scalpel. My entire east coast crew (NY to FL) usually has cdjs for the headliners, if they're not bringing their computers. I see the contracts, pioneer dim 800 (or xone/rane series mixer) cdj1000s. Only a select few scratch based artists still use turntables for main mixing. They're the best for scratching. Hands down. I wish I still had my tech 3Ds. It's just fun to spin on them. But in a club if my 24bit system goes down I've got 16bit audio+ presenting digital music in a digital form with the headroom to match at the press of a button. I've never used a display, only my ear and I assure you it takes no more talent from me to play on techs versus cdjs. That's just me though. Don't know if it's harder for anyone else.
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:45 PM - 22 April, 2011
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Quote:
you say that as someone who dosent own a horse where there are ALOT of people on the earth who would pick the car tire guy to dissappear


I see where you are going with this but in the context of this statement, owning a horse is a step back not forward.



how so? As living creatures horses are in fact safer than cars, you can run 2 cars into each other head on and since the car dosent think for itself it will just do it, horses can look at a situation and judge an unsafe manuever or situation, they run on natural fuel and dont pollute the enviroment, they can adapt to an enviroment, go places cars can, and are biodegradable, they dont just pile up in junkyards maessing up the enviroment

Its the same as your DJ argument, you think just because the new tech is more technologically advanced its better but when you look at the larger picture your damaging the enviroment around you making it worse for everyone
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:47 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
One more thing then I'm off to lunch. I totally agree on the whole turntable cdj thing. I think there is a place in the future for turntables but I cannot see the point of cdjs at all. If you already owned and invested in one I understand still trying to use it I guess but with all the new controllers that basically act just like a cdj without the cd. Why the fuck would you need to put that cd in there? Nostalgia?

If I owned cdjs I would be selling them NOW while they are still worth something.


i can see what your saying here, it makes sense
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:50 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:

No way in hell. 100% or more sound quality improvement.


how so most people like the warm analog sound as opposed to cold digital

Quote:

No needle that looses fidelity every play and skips( a needle? What are we in 1845?)


Yes it has no needle, so when the laser goes bad from a bad drop or spill you have to replace the entire $1000 unit and not just a $75 part

Quote:

multiple songs incl.


same song ability on both vinyl and cd except vinyl is faster since theres no load time


Quote:

They provide a MUCH more stable clock signal, which is very important/essential when syncing to other software. ableton is a great example.


this is true but if your syncing with ableton then your usign the wrong tool with both a turntable AND cd player
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:51 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:

fader is adjustable from 6, 10, 16 and wide (+/-100%)


some turntables have this
Will Love 6:51 PM - 22 April, 2011
Plus the fact that panasonic were going to stop making techs buto Instead dropped their range of models down to one kinda gives you a clue, where as pioneer has several successful models, and that's just pioneer. but I wouldn't see why theird be a future in cdjs ;) lol.
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:51 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:

ability to burn mp3.


which totally negates your fidelity argument
DJJorel 6:52 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
One more thing then I'm off to lunch. I totally agree on the whole turntable cdj thing. I think there is a place in the future for turntables but I cannot see the point of cdjs at all. If you already owned and invested in one I understand still trying to use it I guess but with all the new controllers that basically act just like a cdj without the cd. Why the fuck would you need to put that cd in there? Nostalgia?

If I owned cdjs I would be selling them NOW while they are still worth something.


This is probably why Pioneer's CDJs are now controllers as well (well, for Rekordbox). And, they essentially become controllers when you load a control signal CD into them. So there will still be a market for CDJs for the near future.
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:53 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:

If you spin a breakbeat of any sort you know a cdjs bpm isnt a replacement to a sync feature. Not even close and far from exact or dead on accurate. I can be on '140' exact and be perfectly tempomatched and sync'd with the second cdj at a reading of 141.4.


i spin breakbeat and any thing you control manually is 1000000 X better than a sync
Will Love 6:54 PM - 22 April, 2011
Like I said that's just my point of view. I by no means want to dissect or debate the chicken or egg convo AGAIN. wrong tool? Says who? The future is about paving your own way. I like beat matching my own, to each his or hers.
ninjaty 6:54 PM - 22 April, 2011
You can do everything a cdj does plus much more with itch and an itch controller.
Will Love 6:55 PM - 22 April, 2011
Agreed. I think people might be getting the wrong idea. Read all my posts. Lol
ninjaty 6:56 PM - 22 April, 2011
For half the cost by the way
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:56 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
wrong tool? Says who? .



your adding an unnecessary and redundant step to the process if your souting a CDJ through ableton
DJJorel 6:59 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
You can do everything a cdj does plus much more with itch and an itch controller.


Except control Traktor and Scratch LIVE...(via control CD)...or play better sounding WAVs on CD....

....sorry, I'm nitpicking...I can't believe I'm defending CDJs....lolz...
ninjaty 6:59 PM - 22 April, 2011
+1 just like beatmatching. LOL
ninjaty 7:00 PM - 22 April, 2011
That was supposed to go with bezzles post
AKIEM 7:00 PM - 22 April, 2011
CDJ six steps ahead, one essential step back.

moving platter
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:00 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
+1 just like beatmatching. LOL



thats not an unecessary or redundant step, its part of what makes your show YOURS
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:02 PM - 22 April, 2011
lets look at real world situations, drunk big tit blonde comes up to flirt\bitch about the show, WHHOOOPS full beer spilt

controll = shows over because both of your control units and mixer are all gone
CDJ = 1 cd player out of action you lose a grand, 1 table left to finish a show
Turntable = sticky playyer
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:02 PM - 22 April, 2011
*platter
ninjaty 7:05 PM - 22 April, 2011
As opposed to the others who dont beatmatch theirs?
ninjaty 7:06 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
lets look at real world situations, drunk big tit blonde comes up to flirt\bitch about the show, WHHOOOPS full beer spilt

controll = shows over because both of your control units and mixer are all gone
CDJ = 1 cd player out of action you lose a grand, 1 table left to finish a show
Turntable = sticky playyer


Or full backup rig and still under the cost of 2 cdjs and a mixer. ha
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:29 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
lets look at real world situations, drunk big tit blonde comes up to flirt\bitch about the show, WHHOOOPS full beer spilt

controll = shows over because both of your control units and mixer are all gone
CDJ = 1 cd player out of action you lose a grand, 1 table left to finish a show
Turntable = sticky playyer


Or full backup rig and still under the cost of 2 cdjs and a mixer. ha



you cant "ha" me on that cause im not in the CD camp lol, for the cost of 1 full controller i could havd 8 backup turntables lol
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:30 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
As opposed to the others who dont beatmatch theirs?



no but the human variables are gonan give a different sound VS a computer making EVERYONE sound alike
ninjaty 7:35 PM - 22 April, 2011
I know man. I'm just joshin ya.
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:36 PM - 22 April, 2011
lol
ninjaty 7:51 PM - 22 April, 2011
One point I would like to make on syncing.

I do a kind of hybrid beat matching even with the sync feature on. Example:

Due to the differences in structure of kicks, like how much attack mainly. I find that the beat grid does not work when matching different songs with different kinds of kicks. Sometimes songs line up perfect, sometimes they phase slightly I have buttons mapped that move the beat grid and I occasionally nudge it back and forth during a mix using, guess what? My ears.

This is a skill that cannot be sorted out by technology. A real dj skill. So to say that it is doing all the work is somewhat misleading.
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:53 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
This is a skill that cannot be sorted out by technology. A real dj skill. So to say that it is doing all the work is somewhat misleading.
'

in your case yes because you LEARNED the skill that allows you to descern the best solution, its only a matter of time before you start seeing help threads being opened an dpeople bitching that itch\traktor sucks because the sync dosent work
ninjaty 8:06 PM - 22 April, 2011
I have already experienced this, mostly with ableton djs. They are like "my warping/beatgrids are perfect...look at them "I'm like dont look at them LISTEN to them."

Trying to explain why this occurs to someone who has never manually mixed or has little knowledge of the structure of sound can be a pain in the ass.

I also hate it when ableton/live pa style djs dont stick to any kind of song structure when they are bringing in and out their loops and samples. They can have a great remix idea or sound and blow it on the basics.

This is the kind of things that will seperate the good from the bad.
ninjaty 8:10 PM - 22 April, 2011
Sorry for the break down in grammar but I'm about to go mow the yard and getting drunk is obviously necessary before I go out and operate dangerous lawn equipment. LOL
Mr. Goodkat 9:43 PM - 22 April, 2011
people that keep saying beatmatching is simple dont understand that concept of beatmatching. when you beatmatch is what matters in a live situation(phrasing), and that isnt easy because there are only a few spots where your mix will be perfect and phrased correctly. not so much in hip hop(which is whole different type of mixing), but in edm. if you dont know, some old school cats keep records in line for 2-4 minutes befor mixing out, not just sliding the xfader over 4 bars into a mix. they do it for 2-4 hours, and while its not hard, its hard to do it CORRECTLY for that long.
ninjaty 9:53 PM - 22 April, 2011
I couldnt agrree more but I consider these two completely separate skills. I consider beatmatching actually lining up the tempos or whatever so the songs are playing at the same bpm. Phrasing is how when and where you bring the song in or mix. Syncing two tracks in traktor/itch/ableton does nothing for phrasing. IMO that is the important skill of a dj not the ability to get two songs in the same bpm.
DjWoody 10:00 PM - 22 April, 2011
Phrasing is key to EDM. If you do it wrong, it can completely loose the energy of the mix, and kill the mood.
Rob Pointer 10:08 PM - 22 April, 2011
WOODY!
DJJorel 10:19 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
Phrasing is key to EDM. If you do it wrong, it can completely loose the energy of the mix, and kill the mood.


I'm hoping ScratchLIVE 2.3 has built-in-BPM-synchronized-MIDI-mappable phrasing!

;P
DjWoody 10:30 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Phrasing is key to EDM. If you do it wrong, it can completely loose the energy of the mix, and kill the mood.


I'm hoping ScratchLIVE 2.3 has built-in-BPM-synchronized-MIDI-mappable phrasing!

;P


Oh it will. It's already on the new beta.
Mr. Goodkat 10:36 PM - 22 April, 2011
Quote:
I couldnt agrree more but I consider these two completely separate skills. I consider beatmatching actually lining up the tempos or whatever so the songs are playing at the same bpm. Phrasing is how when and where you bring the song in or mix. Syncing two tracks in traktor/itch/ableton does nothing for phrasing. IMO that is the important skill of a dj not the ability to get two songs in the same bpm.


within the context of live djing, beatmatching and phrasing go hand in hand. you can do it, but it would still be dj'ing incorrectly.
dj_soo 12:57 AM - 23 April, 2011
Quote:
Phrasing is key to EDM. If you do it wrong, it can completely loose the energy of the mix, and kill the mood.


I think phrasing is key for all styles of mixing, it's just a little easier with EDM since the tracks were designed to fit together like lego and therefore counting isn't as important save the odd track that has extra bars here and there. There is however, less opportunity to just slam in tracks since a lot have slow 16-32 bar intros...
Mr. Goodkat 12:08 AM - 24 April, 2011
well, im saying peoples 10 yr old nephews can beatmatch, and maybe they can with serato or a sync button, but i just dont see 10yr olds carrying a mix for 2 minutes and creatively mixing a track. however, these guys prolly dont know what they're doing or talking about in the first place.
AKIEM 12:10 AM - 24 April, 2011
just wondering if people are going to want 'auto-phrase'?
Just set the cue point where the next track starts?
RogerRabbit 12:48 AM - 24 April, 2011
Quote:
just wondering if people are going to want 'auto-phrase'?
Just set the cue point where the next track starts?

If there is enough requests in the future for it, it will be implemented..
ninjaty 2:02 AM - 24 April, 2011
Quote:
just wondering if people are going to want 'auto-phrase'?
Just set the cue point where the next track starts?


Traktor already has this but you still gotta know where to set the cues.
AKIEM 6:39 PM - 24 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
just wondering if people are going to want 'auto-phrase'?
Just set the cue point where the next track starts?


Traktor already has this but you still gotta know where to set the cues.


interesting.

is Traktor the one that helps you select songs bassed on other DJs playlists, or is that another program?
RogerRabbit 6:51 PM - 24 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
just wondering if people are going to want 'auto-phrase'?
Just set the cue point where the next track starts?


Traktor already has this but you still gotta know where to set the cues.


interesting.

is Traktor the one that helps you select songs bassed on other DJs playlists, or is that another program?

That's vdj - it has an option called GenuisDj - which suggests tunes based on what's currently playing..
AKIEM 6:59 PM - 24 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
just wondering if people are going to want 'auto-phrase'?
Just set the cue point where the next track starts?


Traktor already has this but you still gotta know where to set the cues.


interesting.

is Traktor the one that helps you select songs bassed on other DJs playlists, or is that another program?

That's vdj - it has an option called GenuisDj - which suggests tunes based on what's currently playing..


interesting - the day Skynet takes over all DJ jobs looms ever closer

Skynet will - select the next song
Skynet will - start it phazed correctly
Skynet will - sync tracks

please DJs do not request "Auto-EFX", it is our last hope!
RogerRabbit 7:11 PM - 24 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
just wondering if people are going to want 'auto-phrase'?
Just set the cue point where the next track starts?


Traktor already has this but you still gotta know where to set the cues.


interesting.

is Traktor the one that helps you select songs bassed on other DJs playlists, or is that another program?

That's vdj - it has an option called GenuisDj - which suggests tunes based on what's currently playing..


interesting - the day Skynet takes over all DJ jobs looms ever closer

Skynet will - select the next song
Skynet will - start it phazed correctly
Skynet will - sync tracks

please DJs do not request "Auto-EFX", it is our last hope!

You'll be too old or dead before any type of skynet type becomes a reality.. Our networking infrastructure is still far off..
AKIEM 7:18 PM - 24 April, 2011
Quote:

You'll be too old or dead before any type of skynet type becomes a reality.. Our networking infrastructure is still far off..


what do you mean?
for the club/dj world, or for the World world?
RogerRabbit 7:25 PM - 24 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
You'll be too old or dead before any type of skynet type becomes a reality.. Our networking infrastructure is still far off..


what do you mean?
for the club/dj world, or for the World world?

World world....
AKIEM 7:32 PM - 24 April, 2011
ah - well in the DJ world we have everything - just waiting for it to implemented.

Now - one of the first shots fired in the Drone Apocalypse is after Cent Com purchases Clear Chanel. Several clubs will attempt to let some old turntablist like dudes get on and play vinyl - PCs will be disconnected resulting in AUV Drone strikes on the club.
RogerRabbit 7:43 PM - 24 April, 2011
Quote:
ah - well in the DJ world we have everything - just waiting for it to implemented.

Now - one of the first shots fired in the Drone Apocalypse is after Cent Com purchases Clear Chanel. Several clubs will attempt to let some old turntablist like dudes get on and play vinyl - PCs will be disconnected resulting in AUV Drone strikes on the club.

Clubs will have to hire a night time IT guy... Nah not realistic - streaming remote music for the club environment.. Ok - maybe realistic but not practical at this point - unless the club has major loot..
Caliber 7:45 PM - 24 April, 2011
auto e
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
just wondering if people are going to want 'auto-phrase'?
Just set the cue point where the next track starts?


Traktor already has this but you still gotta know where to set the cues.


interesting.

is Traktor the one that helps you select songs bassed on other DJs playlists, or is that another program?

That's vdj - it has an option called GenuisDj - which suggests tunes based on what's currently playing..


interesting - the day Skynet takes over all DJ jobs looms ever closer

Skynet will - select the next song
Skynet will - start it phazed correctly
Skynet will - sync tracks

please DJs do not request "Auto-EFX", it is our last hope!


auto -efx sound interesting, i cant be more creative and not have to spend an extra time twisting knobs and do.... umm.... wait, if i have auto-sync, auto phase, auto selection and auto efx what should i do. maybe i should go look some chicks.
AKIEM 8:14 PM - 24 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
ah - well in the DJ world we have everything - just waiting for it to implemented.

Now - one of the first shots fired in the Drone Apocalypse is after Cent Com purchases Clear Chanel. Several clubs will attempt to let some old turntablist like dudes get on and play vinyl - PCs will be disconnected resulting in AUV Drone strikes on the club.

Clubs will have to hire a night time IT guy... Nah not realistic - streaming remote music for the club environment.. Ok - maybe realistic but not practical at this point - unless the club has major loot..


why would you stream live music?

Songs will be downloaded as they become available - cues and overview already built, etc.

Why would you need an IT guy?

Its not that hard to leave the cpu on.
RogerRabbit 8:21 PM - 24 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
ah - well in the DJ world we have everything - just waiting for it to implemented.

Now - one of the first shots fired in the Drone Apocalypse is after Cent Com purchases Clear Chanel. Several clubs will attempt to let some old turntablist like dudes get on and play vinyl - PCs will be disconnected resulting in AUV Drone strikes on the club.

Clubs will have to hire a night time IT guy... Nah not realistic - streaming remote music for the club environment.. Ok - maybe realistic but not practical at this point - unless the club has major loot..


why would you stream live music?

Songs will be downloaded as they become available - cues and overview already built, etc.

Why would you need an IT guy?

Its not that hard to leave the cpu on.

Because you mentioned skynet.. Skynet - interconnect computers - controlled by an intelligent source..
An IT guy would be need for network problems...
But if you talking about a standalone application, that downloads and mixes tracks - that's a bit different..
AKIEM 9:00 PM - 24 April, 2011
skynet - cent com - nwo - whatever the name.

of course it will be a stand alone application - we are witnessing its creation at this very moment.

we DJs, (aside from turntablism) think what we do is so creative or hard. It might be for us human beings to organize large libraries or pick out the right songs - but with good algorithms, a minimal amount of input (text request, dancefloor monitoring) and music programing from central (ala radio) will do a better job. Especially in clubs filled with idiots - If you as a DJ are not 'breaking' new records then there is nothing you are doing that cant be approximated by a decent program. And even then. The key word being approximated - could never be as creative or skilled (because those are human atributes) but it can certainly get the job done. As proof I offerer the ever growing mound of UNSKILLED DJs doing quite fucking well.

no AI even necessary
CMOS 10:45 PM - 24 April, 2011
Autosync/autophrase software + autodownloads from paid music services for new weekly tracklisting or on demand requests + small seismograph on dancefloor to measure dancefloor activity and apply "ratings" to tracks + sms text recieve capability = bye bye top40 dj.

The software would even know when a track is starting to fizzle by people not dancing and move it to a different time slot. Hell if the place isnt a dance place you can have the patrons text feedback about the music in real time, people love "having input" to how things are run these days. You even could start doing an almost Nielsen style ratings system for songs and how they are doing across the network of systems you would have out there. Music industry would love that kind of real feedback.

Its really not that far fetched of an idea. All it will take is one owner to jump onboard and start bragging about it.



Also i think according to the show, SkyNet took over like 4 days ago.
RogerRabbit 11:31 PM - 24 April, 2011
Quote:
skynet - cent com - nwo - whatever the name.

of course it will be a stand alone application - we are witnessing its creation at this very moment.

we DJs, (aside from turntablism) think what we do is so creative or hard. It might be for us human beings to organize large libraries or pick out the right songs - but with good algorithms, a minimal amount of input (text request, dancefloor monitoring) and music programing from central (ala radio) will do a better job. Especially in clubs filled with idiots - If you as a DJ are not 'breaking' new records then there is nothing you are doing that cant be approximated by a decent program. And even then. The key word being approximated - could never be as creative or skilled (because those are human atributes) but it can certainly get the job done. As proof I offerer the ever growing mound of UNSKILLED DJs doing quite fucking well.

no AI even necessary

Why does the club have to filled with idiots - If the masses like something that a sole dj does not - maybe it's that is the the idiot.. Being a skilled dj is really not a requirement for rocking a club - patrons needs are really simple.. It like haven't a boosting about having mathematics degree but working as a cashier in McDonalds - all the extra knowledge is great but not needed - someone with a high school diploma- who can count with does same job just fine..

But again - this type of application you speak of is not gonna matter any time soon... You'll be retired before this effects you..
RogerRabbit 11:40 PM - 24 April, 2011
Quote:
Autosync/autophrase software + autodownloads from paid music services for new weekly tracklisting or on demand requests + small seismograph on dancefloor to measure dancefloor activity and apply "ratings" to tracks + sms text recieve capability = bye bye top40 dj.

The software would even know when a track is starting to fizzle by people not dancing and move it to a different time slot. Hell if the place isnt a dance place you can have the patrons text feedback about the music in real time, people love "having input" to how things are run these days. You even could start doing an almost Nielsen style ratings system for songs and how they are doing across the network of systems you would have out there. Music industry would love that kind of real feedback.

Its really not that far fetched of an idea. All it will take is one owner to jump onboard and start bragging about it.



Also i think according to the show, SkyNet took over like 4 days ago.

You know how often networks go down...or have hiccups - you're in IT also so I expect better from you.. Our current infrastructure is just not that robust yet..
AKIEM 12:08 AM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
skynet - cent com - nwo - whatever the name.

of course it will be a stand alone application - we are witnessing its creation at this very moment.

we DJs, (aside from turntablism) think what we do is so creative or hard. It might be for us human beings to organize large libraries or pick out the right songs - but with good algorithms, a minimal amount of input (text request, dancefloor monitoring) and music programing from central (ala radio) will do a better job. Especially in clubs filled with idiots - If you as a DJ are not 'breaking' new records then there is nothing you are doing that cant be approximated by a decent program. And even then. The key word being approximated - could never be as creative or skilled (because those are human atributes) but it can certainly get the job done. As proof I offerer the ever growing mound of UNSKILLED DJs doing quite fucking well.

no AI even necessary

Why does the club have to filled with idiots - If the masses like something that a sole dj does not - maybe it's that is the the idiot.. Being a skilled dj is really not a requirement for rocking a club - patrons needs are really simple.. It like haven't a boosting about having mathematics degree but working as a cashier in McDonalds - all the extra knowledge is great but not needed - someone with a high school diploma- who can count with does same job just fine..

But again - this type of application you speak of is not gonna matter any time soon... You'll be retired before this effects you..


The club does not have to be filled with idiots (even though it is) it just makes it easier if the same music programing thats done one the radio is done in the club. Thats to start.

Its not hard - which is exactly the point. The "hard" parts can be fudged or emulated be e decent system.

Things can move quick sometimes. The technology is not the hold up here, its the 'politics'.

If for some reason the big players wanted it to happen, it would. Clear Chanel wants more programing power. RIAA wants all these records DLd legit. BMI wants plays tracked. There are reasons for it to happen.

Ive seen a lot of technologies come online that I never thought I would live to see.
AKIEM 12:12 AM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:

You know how often networks go down...or have hiccups - you're in IT also so I expect better from you.. Our current infrastructure is just not that robust yet..


A system like this would hardly need to be 'always connected'. It would work autonomously. Downloading new music and instructions only when needed. Sending in its feedback once a week.

Does anyone need to be connected to play a gig? This wont ether.
Mr. Goodkat 12:38 AM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:
Autosync/autophrase software + autodownloads from paid music services for new weekly tracklisting or on demand requests + small seismograph on dancefloor to measure dancefloor activity and apply "ratings" to tracks + sms text recieve capability = bye bye top40 dj.



i can't wait for no top 40 dj gigs. i still don't know why more clubs dont use itunes.
CMOS 12:56 AM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
You know how often networks go down...or have hiccups - you're in IT also so I expect better from you.. Our current infrastructure is just not that robust yet..


A system like this would hardly need to be 'always connected'. It would work autonomously. Downloading new music and instructions only when needed. Sending in its feedback once a week.

Does anyone need to be connected to play a gig? This wont ether.



Exactly. It would need a basic Internet connection to download tracks and upload ratings data. If the Internet went down, only issue is no new songs till you get you Internet up. Would need a small pc connected to the sound system with a USB or even wireless seismograph to read dance floor input.
RogerRabbit 12:58 AM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:
The club does not have to be filled with idiots (even though it is) it just makes it easier if the same music programing thats done one the radio is done in the club. Thats to start.

Its not hard - which is exactly the point. The "hard" parts can be fudged or emulated be e decent system.

Things can move quick sometimes. The technology is not the hold up here, its the 'politics'.

If for some reason the big players wanted it to happen, it would. Clear Chanel wants more programing power. RIAA wants all these records DLd legit. BMI wants plays tracked. There are reasons for it to happen.

Ive seen a lot of technologies come online that I never thought I would live to see.

You are talking about a what if scenario - some nwo type stuff... If government ever gets that involved in the music like that, their be underground clubs which plays only pre-20XX music... but just like yourself, I am only speculating...

Quote:
Quote:
You know how often networks go down...or have hiccups - you're in IT also so I expect better from you.. Our current infrastructure is just not that robust yet..


A system like this would hardly need to be 'always connected'. It would work autonomously. Downloading new music and instructions only when needed. Sending in its feedback once a week.

Does anyone need to be connected to play a gig? This wont ether.

Ok.. I am gonna toss out the whole skynet thing cuz what you are referring to is different and can be already achieved now with current technology. It is not yet an all in one software - to my knowledge but definitely possibly.
All that is need is vdj or tracktor and a external software or script to download new tunes and sending new statistics at the end of the week. The only thing that is missing is the auto-efx.
And if though such as system becomes a reality, there will still need to be a dj/soundguy person to monitor the system present on site to handle the unforeseen..
CMOS 12:59 AM - 25 April, 2011
you could setup deals with record pools to download all their new tracks and try them out with live ratings data coming back to them instead of Djs getting tired and writing the words "hot" or "wack" into the review box as most do now.
CMOS 1:01 AM - 25 April, 2011
What unforeseen events. You could train a waitress to reboot the system or call for live remote web help using friggin logmein or something.


Akiem wanna make some millions and piss off DJs worldwide?? Lol
RogerRabbit 1:10 AM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:
What unforeseen events. You could train a waitress to reboot the system or call for live remote web help using friggin logmein or something.


Akiem wanna make some millions and piss off DJs worldwide?? Lol

But how long is that gonna take, calling in, and remote web- and the training the waitress - I bounce at two clubs now..and waitress come and go all the time..
DjWoody 1:31 AM - 25 April, 2011
Believe it or not, HP has been working on a software to eliminate the DJ since 2005. And so far, tests shows it works and people can't tell when the computer is mixing and when the real DJ is. Scary isn't?

www.hpl.hp.com
DJ metaphor 1:35 AM - 25 April, 2011
All this crap is BS... Having clubs INVADED by automated robot DJs... no way in hell.
Rob Pointer 1:52 AM - 25 April, 2011
That's what people said about FM radio stations 30 years ago. lol
AKIEM 2:01 AM - 25 April, 2011
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And if though such as system becomes a reality, there will still need to be a dj/soundguy person to monitor the system present on site to handle the unforeseen..


yeah a sound guy - moving speakers and shit


there still might be a need for a guy to stand in the booth looking cooler then everyone else talking some shit on the mic.

But that could be replaced by video drops from famous people or whatever.

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But how long is that gonna take, calling in, and remote web- and the training the waitress - I bounce at two clubs now..and waitress come and go all the time..


How long is it going to take for the software to connect to central?

there are plenty of people who can learn how to turn on a computer and press start - its not that difficult - if a million dummies can operate a smart phone... cmon

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Akiem wanna make some millions and piss off DJs worldwide?? Lol


cant beat them - might as well join em.

yep seen that HP project, that shit is hell further then I would have thought before seeing it.

Its just a matter of these systems "learning", not intelligently but just filtering and organizing data input. The more input the beter it will select. And that would be aon a PC level. Take whats learned in each location and compile that at central system - or several competing brands of central systems. Whoever has the best algorithms wins. On brand connects to facebook, another gets Clear Chanel data, and third has easier acces to itunes - or however the systems will compete.

But in the end there will be a rivalry between content providers (riaa) and content creators (systems that auto produce). Sorta like top40 vs raves.

Eventually systems will have such a tight feedback loop running between the software and the patrons that it will just create new music on the spot. You think you are good at reading crowds? This thing will read peoples bio rhythms and create music and light shows in unbelievable ways.
AKIEM 2:19 AM - 25 April, 2011
Could be that the softwares will have very complicated algorithms with a whole lot of input permitters, and the systems that learn or work beter then the others will be due to "DJ" who are able to program them in better ways - since DJs maybe have that ability to 'read crowds' better then others. But I am betting that the designers will require it to send/receive that data anyway - but maybe not
RogerRabbit 2:29 AM - 25 April, 2011
This seems like a way to make some major money... Got to get my programming skills back up.. Great idea..
DJ metaphor 4:22 AM - 25 April, 2011
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This seems like a way to make some major money... Got to get my programming skills back up.. Great idea..


Are you serious? Great idea? No. Its not, I enjoy being a club DJ and working in/with clubs, If the system in which you think is a "great idea" gets implemented, The whole DJ culture will be pointless to the people who make us our money.
RogerRabbit 4:44 AM - 25 April, 2011
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This seems like a way to make some major money... Got to get my programming skills back up.. Great idea..


Are you serious? Great idea? No. Its not, I enjoy being a club DJ and working in/with clubs, If the system in which you think is a "great idea" gets implemented, The whole DJ culture will be pointless to the people who make us our money.


Ofcourse I am serious.. I am interested in making money.. The way I see it I got at least 10 more dj-ing years left in me... I am not gonna be carry coffins/cases around forever. Don't you wanna climb the ladder? ...Do you always wanna be the guy waiting for a check, or do you eventually wanna be the guy writing the checks.. You're thinking about short term satisfaction, I am thinking about my continuance...
nik39 4:51 AM - 25 April, 2011
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Believe it or not, HP has been working on a software to eliminate the DJ since 2005. And so far, tests shows it works and people can't tell when the computer is mixing and when the real DJ is. Scary isn't?

www.hpl.hp.com

Did you guys read this? This is from 2005! What AKIEM outline is not too far away.
ninjaty 4:52 AM - 25 April, 2011
This is what I was referring to earlier in this thread. I know there are a couple of companies already working on this. I had this idea back sometime ago, tried to patent it and found out there are already pending patents.

Basically it works like this:
You guys ever heard of that watson computer that was beating everyone at Jeopardy? Well the computer system would work similar to how watson gets Jeopardy answers. It would scower the internet and look for patterns in social media, blogs, reviews itunes sales, everywhere and form statistics on the popularity of music. Constantly seeking and evolving its playlist as well as formulate mixes based on posted playlists etc. Very complicated and very much in the development stage.

The mixing capabilities are going to be the hardest part to develop but I think doable using algorithms and things like people have mentioned above.

It will probably be sterile and expensive like you would assume but here's the kicker and the reason why clubs will invest in it. These systems will have the ability to track the club goers. There will be a rfid in the wristband when you enter the club that will allow the computer/club owner to track the movement of the crowd and if the bar gets slow it will be programmed to automatically play floor killers, if the bar gets swamped it will play floor fillers. It will be able to adjust rapidly and keep the drinks flowing steady and efficiently.

You will see these systems in clubs in the 10-20 year range. Probably more on the 10 year side of that. They will start in the big clubs and trickle their way down to smaller ones. Even if it cost 50-100K it would not take long for a bar to recoup that if they are not paying a dj 400-500 a night and double or tripple their drink sales.

Great idea or not its already in development and will be here in the not so distant future.
ninjaty 4:59 AM - 25 April, 2011
There will be so much management control with something like this. Real time drink sale analysis, statistics for every song. Do they cause fights, do people buy drinks to it, do they buy expensive or cheap drinks, do girls dance, do guys dance, does it create a dance circle taking up floor space, etc and the owner will be able to set certain parameters on how they want that night at the club to go and it will go like that. People will be herded around the club like cattle.
AKIEM 5:00 AM - 25 April, 2011
yup - and not to rain on any parades - but that playlist function everyone is feeding data into... its the devil I say
ninjaty 5:04 AM - 25 April, 2011
I was just a little to late. I had no intentions of developing this I just wanted the patent and my brother's wife's uncle is a patent attorney so I got some free help. Basically I had the forsight to see this coming and decided to try author a patent on it with the hopes of selling the patent later on down the road or getting some payment from some company who violated at least part of the patent. I was gonna be rich! Nope. Too Late. lol
AKIEM 5:06 AM - 25 April, 2011
ninjaty, what do you think about the possible split between RIAA content driven systems and 'auto-production' type systems?
DJ metaphor 5:10 AM - 25 April, 2011
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yup - and not to rain on any parades - but that playlist function everyone is feeding data into... its the devil I say


ahahahaha +1 homie
ninjaty 5:13 AM - 25 April, 2011
Not sure I understand your question. Are you referring to where the music comes from and are calling this club system auto-production?
RogerRabbit 5:14 AM - 25 April, 2011
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yup - and not to rain on any parades - but that playlist function everyone is feeding data into... its the devil I say

But other dvs companies are already doing it so... the progress is kinda unstoppable..
AKIEM 5:23 AM - 25 April, 2011
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Not sure I understand your question. Are you referring to where the music comes from and are calling this club system auto-production?


Well there seems to be two types of systems that could emerge. One that plays content provided by major labels and the other a system that would create content as part of a feedback loop paying a lot more attention to what the humans are doing, adapting and learning techniques. The second would be much more advanced, but would also provide a lot more control.
ninjaty 5:30 AM - 25 April, 2011
On further thought. I think it will work something like this.

The company selling this system will have a super computer that gathers data on the music which will be on a cloud music server. The RIAA will still have control over the music in the cloud. The club would have the part of the system that mixes the music and tracks the customers and bar stats. The club owner would have access to the server and be able to select parameters for the type of music it wants top 40, rap, EDM etc and the clubs system would talk to the server to best achieve what the club owner wants.

To answer your question, I think it is gonna give more control back to the RIAA which will mean they will support this 100%.
ninjaty 5:31 AM - 25 April, 2011
Cloud based music is a major piece of this puzzle. If you cant see the stars lining up for this then I feel for you.
ninjaty 5:40 AM - 25 April, 2011
I'm not saying this will kill of djs all together. I dont think it will effect performance/show djs, or niche market club djs that stick to underground stuff but the days of the big club dj playing top 40 and popular music of any genre are numbered. It is all economics. However I could see this being a benefit to mobile wedding djs. I could see a more basic version of the system being developed for them.
ninjaty 5:53 AM - 25 April, 2011
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yup - and not to rain on any parades - but that playlist function everyone is feeding data into... its the devil I say

But other dvs companies are already doing it so... the progress is kinda unstoppable..


You guys dont think the developers of these systems do have access to the setlists you post? You are probably teaching it how to dj right now and dont even know it.
RogerRabbit 5:54 AM - 25 April, 2011
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Cloud based music is a major piece of this puzzle. If you cant see the stars lining up for this then I feel for you.

Vdj already uses Netsearch - which can pull tracks from the net in realtime and stream to the software.....
RogerRabbit 5:56 AM - 25 April, 2011
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yup - and not to rain on any parades - but that playlist function everyone is feeding data into... its the devil I say

But other dvs companies are already doing it so... the progress is kinda unstoppable..


You guys dont think the developers of these systems do have access to the setlists you post? You are probably teaching it how to dj right now and dont even know it.

So are you are basically saying the same thing - It's unstoppable..
ninjaty 6:02 AM - 25 April, 2011
Yep
DJ Awyse 6:16 AM - 25 April, 2011
How did a thread about Traktor 2 turn into a supercomputer dj automation discussion?
blackavenger 1:50 PM - 25 April, 2011
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How did a thread about Traktor 2 turn into a supercomputer dj automation discussion?


Just about every thread on this forum ends up being a conversation......is that a bad thing?
Dj-M.Bezzle 2:08 PM - 25 April, 2011
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ah - well in the DJ world we have everything - just waiting for it to implemented.

Now - one of the first shots fired in the Drone Apocalypse is after Cent Com purchases Clear Chanel. Several clubs will attempt to let some old turntablist like dudes get on and play vinyl - PCs will be disconnected resulting in AUV Drone strikes on the club.

Clubs will have to hire a night time IT guy... Nah not realistic - streaming remote music for the club environment.. Ok - maybe realistic but not practical at this point - unless the club has major loot..


why would you stream live music?

Songs will be downloaded as they become available - cues and overview already built, etc.

Why would you need an IT guy?

Its not that hard to leave the cpu on.

this really wouldnt make sence with the evolution of internet technology moving towards cloud computing, downloading the information would be a step backwards and go against the entire purpase of evolving the system past the already overautomated state its in
valdini 2:10 PM - 25 April, 2011
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Believe it or not, HP has been working on a software to eliminate the DJ since 2005. And so far, tests shows it works and people can't tell when the computer is mixing and when the real DJ is. Scary isn't?

www.hpl.hp.com

Did you guys read this? This is from 2005! What AKIEM outline is not too far away.

************
I knew someone involved in this at the time, and trust me, where they are now is a fair stride on from this.

Someone at high up at HP likes their music thats for sure, one launch we did for them 'they' asked for Martin Solveig to play it - not us who were running it... and ALL the top guys were there for it from the Global Teams wanting their photos in the booth with his etc which was cool for a group of 50+ suits I thought.

K
Dj-M.Bezzle 2:21 PM - 25 April, 2011
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Basically it works like this:
You guys ever heard of that watson computer that was beating everyone at Jeopardy? Well the computer system would work similar to how watson gets Jeopardy answers. It would scower the internet and look for patterns in social media, blogs, reviews itunes sales, everywhere and form statistics on the popularity of music. Constantly seeking and evolving its playlist as well as formulate mixes based on posted playlists etc. Very complicated and very much in the development stage.


This is how i see it, and everyone who says a computer cant read a floor or be creative, it dosent have to, mabye its just the clubs i spin at but noone appreciates the creativity anymore anyway, all they want is to hear the song they hear on the radio and are familiar with which is easy enough to do. Where I live to get into any club you have to be a "member" which dosent mean shit except you have to fill out a card the 1st time you go to a club and keep the card on you, so you could have people fill in their facebook page and the program would loginto all the facebooks read their music likes and play music that would agree with the majority of the club.

The evil side to this is when pop culture backfires, for example if this software was implimented today it would realise it is peak hour, scour the net to find what the HOTTEST song of the moment is and as your drinkin and gettin your groove on........ITS FRIDAY FRIDAY GETTIN DOWN ON FRIDAY ...LMFAO
AKIEM 4:52 PM - 25 April, 2011
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ah - well in the DJ world we have everything - just waiting for it to implemented.

Now - one of the first shots fired in the Drone Apocalypse is after Cent Com purchases Clear Chanel. Several clubs will attempt to let some old turntablist like dudes get on and play vinyl - PCs will be disconnected resulting in AUV Drone strikes on the club.

Clubs will have to hire a night time IT guy... Nah not realistic - streaming remote music for the club environment.. Ok - maybe realistic but not practical at this point - unless the club has major loot..


why would you stream live music?

Songs will be downloaded as they become available - cues and overview already built, etc.

Why would you need an IT guy?

Its not that hard to leave the cpu on.

this really wouldnt make sence with the evolution of internet technology moving towards cloud computing, downloading the information would be a step backwards and go against the entire purpase of evolving the system past the already overautomated state its in



eyes rolling

I like how beezle tries to just randomly pic out some shit to be disagreeable
Dj-M.Bezzle 4:55 PM - 25 April, 2011
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ah - well in the DJ world we have everything - just waiting for it to implemented.

Now - one of the first shots fired in the Drone Apocalypse is after Cent Com purchases Clear Chanel. Several clubs will attempt to let some old turntablist like dudes get on and play vinyl - PCs will be disconnected resulting in AUV Drone strikes on the club.

Clubs will have to hire a night time IT guy... Nah not realistic - streaming remote music for the club environment.. Ok - maybe realistic but not practical at this point - unless the club has major loot..


why would you stream live music?

Songs will be downloaded as they become available - cues and overview already built, etc.

Why would you need an IT guy?

Its not that hard to leave the cpu on.

this really wouldnt make sence with the evolution of internet technology moving towards cloud computing, downloading the information would be a step backwards and go against the entire purpase of evolving the system past the already overautomated state its in



eyes rolling

I like how beezle tries to just randomly pic out some shit to be disagreeable


so the guy whos arguing a hypothetical point dosent like how i.........insert an argument into the ongoing hypothetical point...........mind = blown
RogerRabbit 4:55 PM - 25 April, 2011
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ah - well in the DJ world we have everything - just waiting for it to implemented.

Now - one of the first shots fired in the Drone Apocalypse is after Cent Com purchases Clear Chanel. Several clubs will attempt to let some old turntablist like dudes get on and play vinyl - PCs will be disconnected resulting in AUV Drone strikes on the club.

Clubs will have to hire a night time IT guy... Nah not realistic - streaming remote music for the club environment.. Ok - maybe realistic but not practical at this point - unless the club has major loot..


why would you stream live music?

Songs will be downloaded as they become available - cues and overview already built, etc.

Why would you need an IT guy?

Its not that hard to leave the cpu on.

this really wouldnt make sence with the evolution of internet technology moving towards cloud computing, downloading the information would be a step backwards and go against the entire purpase of evolving the system past the already overautomated state its in



eyes rolling

I like how beezle tries to just randomly pic out some shit to be disagreeable

But he is actually right in this case...
AKIEM 4:59 PM - 25 April, 2011
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Quote:

eyes rolling

I like how beezle tries to just randomly pic out some shit to be disagreeable


so the guy whos arguing a hypothetical point dosent like how i.........insert an argument into the ongoing hypothetical point...........mind = blown


lol - I like how beezles excuse for almost everything is "its hypothetical"
AKIEM 5:02 PM - 25 April, 2011
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ah - well in the DJ world we have everything - just waiting for it to implemented.

Now - one of the first shots fired in the Drone Apocalypse is after Cent Com purchases Clear Chanel. Several clubs will attempt to let some old turntablist like dudes get on and play vinyl - PCs will be disconnected resulting in AUV Drone strikes on the club.

Clubs will have to hire a night time IT guy... Nah not realistic - streaming remote music for the club environment.. Ok - maybe realistic but not practical at this point - unless the club has major loot..


why would you stream live music?

Songs will be downloaded as they become available - cues and overview already built, etc.

Why would you need an IT guy?

Its not that hard to leave the cpu on.

this really wouldnt make sence with the evolution of internet technology moving towards cloud computing, downloading the information would be a step backwards and go against the entire purpase of evolving the system past the already overautomated state its in



eyes rolling

I like how beezle tries to just randomly pic out some shit to be disagreeable

But he is actually right in this case...




streaming music instead of sending the file?
to save hard drive space I guess? haha
RogerRabbit 5:09 PM - 25 April, 2011
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ah - well in the DJ world we have everything - just waiting for it to implemented.

Now - one of the first shots fired in the Drone Apocalypse is after Cent Com purchases Clear Chanel. Several clubs will attempt to let some old turntablist like dudes get on and play vinyl - PCs will be disconnected resulting in AUV Drone strikes on the club.

Clubs will have to hire a night time IT guy... Nah not realistic - streaming remote music for the club environment.. Ok - maybe realistic but not practical at this point - unless the club has major loot..


why would you stream live music?

Songs will be downloaded as they become available - cues and overview already built, etc.

Why would you need an IT guy?

Its not that hard to leave the cpu on.

this really wouldnt make sence with the evolution of internet technology moving towards cloud computing, downloading the information would be a step backwards and go against the entire purpase of evolving the system past the already overautomated state its in



eyes rolling

I like how beezle tries to just randomly pic out some shit to be disagreeable

But he is actually right in this case...




streaming music instead of sending the file?
to save hard drive space I guess? haha

Either can work - but that cloud computing is what's being pushed now..
AKIEM 5:19 PM - 25 April, 2011
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streaming music instead of sending the file?
to save hard drive space I guess? haha

Either can work - but that cloud computing is what's being pushed now..


sure especially for mobile situations.

but how much sense (not that everything THEY do makes sense) but why stream the exact same songs every night relying on the network for the shit to operate?

Each one of us is already walking around with 1000 times more music then we will EVER play - and hard drive space is getting smaller and cheaper fast as hell.

The computations needed to effectively decide the next song is minimal - it wont take a central super computer.

And why have those decisions made off site?
ninjaty 5:20 PM - 25 April, 2011
Its what the labels want its what the distributors want. Its their new business model. I have a friend who works for a small indie label here in Nashville. He was telling me about this like 4 years ago. The industry has realized people the masses will no longer pay for music so they are trying to make a it a service you cant live without and recoup sales revenue that way. I called bullshit on it then and now he is looking correct. Amazon is already doing it, itunes will follow soon.

For your average person being able just click on tracks and instantly adding them to your cloud where you could then access your entire music collection from anywhere or any device without downloading or moving files will be appealing. It will be too convenient not to use. Want to listen to your music on your computer, or ipad or cellphone? It will all be there where ever you are instantly. I think people will embrace this with open arms...you watch.
AKIEM 5:39 PM - 25 April, 2011
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Its what the labels want its what the distributors want. Its their new business model. I have a friend who works for a small indie label here in Nashville. He was telling me about this like 4 years ago. The industry has realized people the masses will no longer pay for music so they are trying to make a it a service you cant live without and recoup sales revenue that way. I called bullshit on it then and now he is looking correct. Amazon is already doing it, itunes will follow soon.

For your average person being able just click on tracks and instantly adding them to your cloud where you could then access your entire music collection from anywhere or any device without downloading or moving files will be appealing. It will be too convenient not to use. Want to listen to your music on your computer, or ipad or cellphone? It will all be there where ever you are instantly. I think people will embrace this with open arms...you watch.


Sure for mobile consumer type individuals it makes plenty of sense. Simular to radio listening with much more options.

But there are reasons clubs dont just turn on the top 40 station. And people still collect music.

Think about the inefficiency in continually streaming the same song over and over again instead of it downloading just once. All the DATA concerning how/when/why the song was played can be sent back to central - and the tax can be assessed or whatever.
ninjaty 5:52 PM - 25 April, 2011
They are looking at it as more of a service fee kind of thing where you pay a monthly fee for unlimited access to unlimited music. Inefficiency doesnt really matter as long as the consumer does not have to wait. You could be streaming the same song over and over or completely different ones everytime. Really makes no difference its just data bandwidth. If you've got the speed and bandwidth you would never know the difference between streaming and play from disk.
AKIEM 6:19 PM - 25 April, 2011
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They are looking at it as more of a service fee kind of thing where you pay a monthly fee for unlimited access to unlimited music. Inefficiency doesnt really matter as long as the consumer does not have to wait. You could be streaming the same song over and over or completely different ones everytime. Really makes no difference its just data bandwidth. If you've got the speed and bandwidth you would never know the difference between streaming and play from disk.


Exactly you would not know the difference - unless the connection is down.

When the Drone Wars commence I am sure some type of hero guy will break into the central command center and blow it up. He will think he saved the human race - too bad it will have no effect.

Its too late for RIAA, they do not hold ALL the cards.
DjWoody 6:46 PM - 25 April, 2011
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But there are reasons clubs dont just turn on the top 40 station. And people still collect music.

Think about the inefficiency in continually streaming the same song over and over again instead of it downloading just once. All the DATA concerning how/when/why the song was played can be sent back to central - and the tax can be assessed or whatever.


Just think about this, there's already jukeboxes that connect to the internet and have iTunes built in. The song stream, they don't reside on the jukebox. Also, clubs are supposed to pay a license fee to ASCAP and/or BMI already anyway. But many clubs don't.

Streaming the music makes more sense than actually downloading it to the clubs computer. Bandwith is no issue cuz there's plenty of it, it will prevent DJ's from pirating music, and it will also allow the playlist to be updated in realtime instead of relying on what's on the computer and having to download the music.

Playlist customization is gonna be key in this game. Why pay a DJ, when the company can hire a "dj" and pay him hourly to customize playlists for different venues from once central office? I'm sure the companies would send reps to audit the clubs once in a while.

There's already streaming music services that customize playlists for restaurants. Just as an example, look at Subway Radio. That station is customized for the restaurant by market. I have a friend who customizes VIDEO playlists for several Applebee's & TGIF's in Mexico.

With a service like this, labels could potentially control their releases and test them by markets. Let's saying Snoop Dogg is getting ready to drop a new track, the labels could release it only clubs that specialize in hip hop and get instant feedback instead of relying on unreliable feedback from DJ's.

There's so much control with a system like this, that it's going to be nuts if it does happen.
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:53 PM - 25 April, 2011
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sure especially for mobile situations.

but how much sense (not that everything THEY do makes sense) but why stream the exact same songs every night relying on the network for the shit to operate?

Each one of us is already walking around with 1000 times more music then we will EVER play - and hard drive space is getting smaller and cheaper fast as hell.

The computations needed to effectively decide the next song is minimal - it wont take a central super computer.

And why have those decisions made off site?


Several reasons, 1st off from a piracy standpoint just auto shooting tracks to a foreign unmonitered computer where anyone could walk in and download all the music off the harddrive isnt a good idea, by streaming you retain ownership of the content, then if you DL everything to the computer you have to consider drive space and then determine remotley what songs to leave on and erase, also consider the busniess prospect of having a cloud computer with every kind of genre and the remote machine is set up to the type of club it is and has access to that music instantly, for example if its a top 40 club that has a frat party with a "rave" theme you would just have to change the settings and instantly have access to the proper tracks without having to spend days downloading. Then in general your futureproofing your product as the entire computer community is being pushed towards cloud computing. In the next 10 to 20 years having a desktop with a harddrive with your info on your desk is going to be laughable
DjWoody 7:09 PM - 25 April, 2011
Like many have said, cloud computing is going to be the future. I work for a major newspaper and in January we replaced all of our $3000 MacPro's our designers used with $300 Dell's! Now, all of our work is done on the cloud. We all VNC (log in) to a central computer, and design in the cloud using regular plain old Adobe Software. And guess what? It's pretty darn fast too.
ninjaty 7:14 PM - 25 April, 2011
Wow I bet they save a ton in adobe licenses.
DjWoody 7:28 PM - 25 April, 2011
They probably did. Google is also coming out with a cloud computer. I applied for the beta program, but never got accepted.

www.google.com
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:37 PM - 25 April, 2011
To me the future of cloud is a scary scary thing, with the idea being to move EVERYONE to the cloud infostructure what happens when you have a situation like what happened last weekend with the PSN, oh sorry guys some guy broke in and we have to rebuild the network, hope you dont need access to ANY of your personall data fro the next few weeks
AKIEM 7:39 PM - 25 April, 2011
Im not saying cloud computing is not the future. Essentially I am trying to carve out some type of future for us here. My argument is that local control (even if fully automated) is worth trying to retain. That the content providers do not hold all the cards. The generation of DATA - that is what the systems collect and learn will be extremely valuable. We as the future onsite tech dudes (even if we have to bounce and serve drinks) will not want to just freely hand over our data.

The content can be locked - future of White Label model.

If the bandwidth is unlimited, and the storage space is unlimited then the difference will be trivial. Except for one thing - being able to operate without a connection if needed. AND the control of data both ways. Even if/when a central system is created aimed at retaining IP, keeping it off drives - there will be alternate competing localized systems - maybe RIAA will try to deny the use of its content - but top40 is not the only type hot night out there.

If we individual DJs have any future it will be in programing the best system for the particular venue. That means entering the best data into the algorithms or tweaking them - and if it is possible to do this better then the next guy then you want to keep that data for yourself.

Do we share our libraries just because all the content easily gotten?
ninjaty 7:49 PM - 25 April, 2011
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To me the future of cloud is a scary scary thing


I dont like it either but its coming. Its the industries answer to piracy. If no one actually has the program you cant pirate it. Rather than sell the program just sell access to it on the cloud.

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The content can be locked - future of White Label model.


The white label model was a joke. It was one play/step from giving you the full song. All you had to do was route the output of Deck A into Deck B. Play the song on deck A and record it on deck B. The same equipment the DRM was designed for gave you the capabilities of cracking it. Dooh.
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:51 PM - 25 April, 2011
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Do we share our libraries just because all the content easily gotten?


have you noticed the amount of ebay and craigslist posts promising thousands of DJ ready tracks and videos, YES, alot of DJs share their libraries for personal gain and out of sheer stupidity.

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If the bandwidth is unlimited, and the storage space is unlimited then the difference will be trivial.


except storage space is NOT unlimited


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My argument is that local control (even if fully automated) is worth trying to retain. That the content providers do not hold all the cards.


but considering the providers (ie the people creating the system) WANT to hold all the cards so the reality is their not gonna go out of their way to be generous


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content can be locked - future of White Label model.


locked data can be hacked and traded, with the cloud system the day they stop getting a payment they click a button and your entire access to music stops on the dime. Do you think club owners will be late or miss a payment when the people your paying can shut down your night mid party.


Quote:

The generation of DATA - that is what the systems collect and learn will be extremely valuable. We as the future onsite tech dudes (even if we have to bounce and serve drinks) will not want to just freely hand over our data.


They dont need the data really, i laugh to myself whenever the whole automated dj system thing is discussed because everyone starts talking abouthow the system will moniter this or know that, in a very human reactable way. The old school of thought where we are essentially reacting to whats going on, letting the crowd dictate what happens. Radio has proven that you can take cotnrol from them and tell them what you want them to do and theyll follow.



Quote:

there will be alternate competing localized systems - maybe RIAA will try to deny the use of its content - but top40 is not the only type hot night out there.


you just gave another reason why the cloud is a better solution, there are more than just top 40 nights out there, so if you want the software to cater to your kind of night youll need access to it all. Lets say my club has a rave night on thurs a hiphopp night on fri an open format on sat and a bbq even on sun...it wouldnt make any sense to have entire librarys of all these things DL to the HD when you can have instand on demand access to it through the cloud
AKIEM 7:57 PM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:

The white label model was a joke. It was one play/step from giving you the full song. All you had to do was route the output of Deck A into Deck B. Play the song on deck A and record it on deck B. The same equipment the DRM was designed for gave you the capabilities of cracking it. Dooh.


exactly - thats why I was arguing that majors should change there business models so that the IP would be completely free and used to promote other streams of revenue they could develop and better control like live performances.
ninjaty 7:58 PM - 25 April, 2011
{quote}The old school of thought where we are essentially reacting to whats going on, letting the crowd dictate what happens. Radio has proven that you can take cotnrol from them and tell them what you want them to do and theyll follow.


Clubs are gonna have like buttons installed on the dance floor. LOL
ninjaty 8:00 PM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
The white label model was a joke. It was one play/step from giving you the full song. All you had to do was route the output of Deck A into Deck B. Play the song on deck A and record it on deck B. The same equipment the DRM was designed for gave you the capabilities of cracking it. Dooh.


exactly - thats why I was arguing that majors should change there business models so that the IP would be completely free and used to promote other streams of revenue they could develop and better control like live performances.


Or just charge a reasonable rate for unlimited access to music. Who would go through the trouble of tracking down and stealing music if you could just pay $20 a month to get whatever you want, anytime anywhere, from one spot?
AKIEM 8:05 PM - 25 April, 2011
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Quote:
Quote:
The white label model was a joke. It was one play/step from giving you the full song. All you had to do was route the output of Deck A into Deck B. Play the song on deck A and record it on deck B. The same equipment the DRM was designed for gave you the capabilities of cracking it. Dooh.


exactly - thats why I was arguing that majors should change there business models so that the IP would be completely free and used to promote other streams of revenue they could develop and better control like live performances.


Or just charge a reasonable rate for unlimited access to music. Who would go through the trouble of tracking down and stealing music if you could just pay $20 a month to get whatever you want, anytime anywhere, from one spot?


DJs (music programers)
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:07 PM - 25 April, 2011
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The white label model was a joke. It was one play/step from giving you the full song. All you had to do was route the output of Deck A into Deck B. Play the song on deck A and record it on deck B. The same equipment the DRM was designed for gave you the capabilities of cracking it. Dooh.


exactly - thats why I was arguing that majors should change there business models so that the IP would be completely free and used to promote other streams of revenue they could develop and better control like live performances.


Or just charge a reasonable rate for unlimited access to music. Who would go through the trouble of tracking down and stealing music if you could just pay $20 a month to get whatever you want, anytime anywhere, from one spot?


DJs (music programers)


lol so you think they are gonna taylor the system to cater to the people they are trying to cut out of the picture.
AKIEM 8:13 PM - 25 April, 2011
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Quote:
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Quote:
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The white label model was a joke. It was one play/step from giving you the full song. All you had to do was route the output of Deck A into Deck B. Play the song on deck A and record it on deck B. The same equipment the DRM was designed for gave you the capabilities of cracking it. Dooh.


exactly - thats why I was arguing that majors should change there business models so that the IP would be completely free and used to promote other streams of revenue they could develop and better control like live performances.


Or just charge a reasonable rate for unlimited access to music. Who would go through the trouble of tracking down and stealing music if you could just pay $20 a month to get whatever you want, anytime anywhere, from one spot?


DJs (music programers)


lol so you think they are gonna taylor the system to cater to the people they are trying to cut out of the picture.


It depends who the "they" is. Who is doing the developing here, is it the labels or software makers. You think Serato is going to design itself out the picture? The labels still have to negotiate with US. Like I said RIAA does not hold ALL the cards, they might have all the music - but having all the music does not make a hot club night.
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:20 PM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:

It depends who the "they" is. Who is doing the developing here, is it the labels or software makers.


the software wont work without music, so its int he best interest for the software company to make a deal with the holders of the music. DJs dont even enter the equation

Quote:

You think Serato is going to design itself out the picture?


serato is a software development company not a DJ company. They arein it to make money and if they biggest financial gain is to program out DJs then thats what theyll do, they wouldnt be writing themselves out of the picture as they can continue to update and upgrade their software that they sell to the clubs not the djs

Quote:

The labels still have to negotiate with US.

whos us??

Quote:

Like I said RIAA does not hold ALL the cards, they might have all the music - but having all the music does not make a hot club night.


Sure it can, but not having any music can most definatley ruin a night
ninjaty 8:26 PM - 25 April, 2011
If music does take the cloud model I think the developers will definitely cater to it. These companies that make dj and music software walk a thin line with the music industry. They will develop where the industry tells them.
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:29 PM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:
If music does take the cloud model I think the developers will definitely cater to it. These companies that make dj and music software walk a thin line with the music industry. They will develop where the industry tells them.



+1
AKIEM 8:41 PM - 25 April, 2011
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Do we share our libraries just because all the content easily gotten?


have you noticed the amount of ebay and craigslist posts promising thousands of DJ ready tracks and videos, YES, alot of DJs share their libraries for personal gain and out of sheer stupidity.


Do you do that?

I dont, I know my library is worth vastly more then whatever I could sell it for on craigs list.

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If the bandwidth is unlimited, and the storage space is unlimited then the difference will be trivial.


except storage space is NOT unlimited


lol, and nether is bandwidth

both are already nearing what amounts to limitless
meaning more then can be dealt with - I cant even organize all the data I DL.

Quote:

Quote:
content can be locked - future of White Label model.


locked data can be hacked and traded, with the cloud system the day they stop getting a payment they click a button and your entire access to music stops on the dime. Do you think club owners will be late or miss a payment when the people your paying can shut down your night mid party.


I never had to do it, but if I cant pay my light bill I got some long ass extension cords.

If its expensive it will be shared.



Quote:

Quote:
The generation of DATA - that is what the systems collect and learn will be extremely valuable. We as the future onsite tech dudes (even if we have to bounce and serve drinks) will not want to just freely hand over our data.


They dont need the data really, i laugh to myself whenever the whole automated dj system thing is discussed because everyone starts talking abouthow the system will moniter this or know that, in a very human reactable way. The old school of thought where we are essentially reacting to whats going on, letting the crowd dictate what happens. Radio has proven that you can take cotnrol from them and tell them what you want them to do and theyll follow.


then why isnt there only one radio station?

Quote:

Quote:
there will be alternate competing localized systems - maybe RIAA will try to deny the use of its content - but top40 is not the only type hot night out there.


you just gave another reason why the cloud is a better solution, there are more than just top 40 nights out there, so if you want the software to cater to your kind of night youll need access to it all. Lets say my club has a rave night on thurs a hiphopp night on fri an open format on sat and a bbq even on sun...it wouldnt make any sense to have entire librarys of all these things DL to the HD when you can have instand on demand access to it through the cloud



what would the difference even be?

Point is that at the moment there is a huge amount of unlocked data out there right now. All they could lock is new shit. And the lock will only be as good as a WL lock - easily defeated by pressing record then play.
nik39 8:51 PM - 25 April, 2011
Why the hell would someone stream all the files again and again when it comes to clubs? Just deliver it once, then add some DRM into the playing app. Case solved.
AKIEM 8:52 PM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:
Why the hell would someone stream all the files again and again when it comes to clubs? Just deliver it once, then add some DRM into the playing app. Case solved.


lol exactly
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:55 PM - 25 April, 2011
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Quote:

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Do we share our libraries just because all the content easily gotten?


have you noticed the amount of ebay and craigslist posts promising thousands of DJ ready tracks and videos, YES, alot of DJs share their libraries for personal gain and out of sheer stupidity.



Do you do that?

I dont, I know my library is worth vastly more then whatever I could sell it for on craigs list.


Ill share tracks with other DJs no problem, but come on dont even act like you dont know that there are tons of people selling loaded harddrives over the internet and copying them for friends. I know several DJs in my area who all have the EXACT same HD and whenever they meet a new DJ they offer to copy everything they have for a copy of their library.


Quote:

Quote:

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If the bandwidth is unlimited, and the storage space is unlimited then the difference will be trivial.


except storage space is NOT unlimited



lol, and nether is bandwidth

both are already nearing what amounts to limitless
meaning more then can be dealt with - I cant even organize all the data I DL.


yes but you dont need unlimited bandwith to stream an audio stream, thats a fairly simple process that is easier and cost less than constantly having to upgrade storgae space and manage data.

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

content can be locked - future of White Label model.


locked data can be hacked and traded, with the cloud system the day they stop getting a payment they click a button and your entire access to music stops on the dime. Do you think club owners will be late or miss a payment when the people your paying can shut down your night mid party.



I never had to do it, but if I cant pay my light bill I got some long ass extension cords.

If its expensive it will be shared.



it dosent have to be expensive in fact thats the selling point, tired of a paying a DJ $300 a night to stand there and play music, piss off your customers, and drink all your liquor, pay us $50 a month and have all the hottest music, garenteed bangers that are proven to make a night go smoothly streamed in HD to your club. Besides what is there to share its a stream.



Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The generation of DATA - that is what the systems collect and learn will be extremely valuable. We as the future onsite tech dudes (even if we have to bounce and serve drinks) will not want to just freely hand over our data.


They dont need the data really, i laugh to myself whenever the whole automated dj system thing is discussed because everyone starts talking abouthow the system will moniter this or know that, in a very human reactable way. The old school of thought where we are essentially reacting to whats going on, letting the crowd dictate what happens. Radio has proven that you can take cotnrol from them and tell them what you want them to do and theyll follow.



then why isnt there only one radio station?



1st off anti monopoly laws, 2nd there pretty much is, clear channel, besides that radio towers dont have the capibility to broadcast across the entire country, 3rd it makes sense to have multiple chanells because you can sell concurrent add space across multiple channels simontaniously
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

there will be alternate competing localized systems - maybe RIAA will try to deny the use of its content - but top40 is not the only type hot night out there.


you just gave another reason why the cloud is a better solution, there are more than just top 40 nights out there, so if you want the software to cater to your kind of night youll need access to it all. Lets say my club has a rave night on thurs a hiphopp night on fri an open format on sat and a bbq even on sun...it wouldnt make any sense to have entire librarys of all these things DL to the HD when you can have instand on demand access to it through the cloud



what would the difference even be?

Point is that at the moment there is a huge amount of unlocked data out there right now. All they could lock is new shit. And the lock will only be as good as a WL lock - easily defeated by pressing record then play.

And for the what would the difference be, the difference is youd have instant access to more music at any given time than ANY DJ has on his HD or could fit on a HD in the club.


Noones talking about locking anything in acloud situation you have nothing to lock your accesing it remotley, sure you could record the stream and stop paying but then youd have that ONE Mix show to keep playing over and over
AKIEM 8:56 PM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
It depends who the "they" is. Who is doing the developing here, is it the labels or software makers.


the software wont work without music, so its int he best interest for the software company to make a deal with the holders of the music. DJs dont even enter the equation


01-Rob Base - It Takes Two

again - Companies can go ahead and work for RIAA.

There will still be room for other companies to develop localized systems run by local music programmers. RIAA does not - and never will be able to physically control all of its IP. They dont even have the right to - there is a HUGE amount of content out there. Cloud computing is too late to control all the data already out there. If they would have developed it before the consumer got ahold of digital...

Quote:

Quote:
You think Serato is going to design itself out the picture?


serato is a software development company not a DJ company. They arein it to make money and if they biggest financial gain is to program out DJs then thats what theyll do, they wouldnt be writing themselves out of the picture as they can continue to update and upgrade their software that they sell to the clubs not the djs


That would depend on what Serato (even tho a meant any developer) wants to do. If Serato wants to create master systems run by RIAA, fine. They arnt the only ones who can develop - and if people WANT to retain local control and value the DATA that could be generated by running a local system someone will write and sale the software to us individuals who want to can do it.

Quote:
The labels still have to negotiate with US.

whos us??

DJs / Club Owners / Software Developers / Artists

Quote:

Quote:
Like I said RIAA does not hold ALL the cards, they might have all the music - but having all the music does not make a hot club night.


Sure it can, but not having any music can most definatley ruin a night


Rob Base
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:56 PM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Why the hell would someone stream all the files again and again when it comes to clubs? Just deliver it once, then add some DRM into the playing app. Case solved.


lol exactly



I guess its no use trying to explain it to people who cant think progressivley
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:01 PM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It depends who the "they" is. Who is doing the developing here, is it the labels or software makers.


the software wont work without music, so its int he best interest for the software company to make a deal with the holders of the music. DJs dont even enter the equation
01-Rob Base - It Takes Two

again - Companies can go ahead and work for RIAA.

There will still be room for other companies to develop localized systems run by local music programmers. RIAA does not - and never will be able to physically control all of its IP. They dont even have the right to - there is a HUGE amount of content out there. Cloud computing is too late to control all the data already out there. If they would have developed it before the consumer got ahold of digital...


Quote:
Quote:
You think Serato is going to design itself out the picture?


serato is a software development company not a DJ company. They arein it to make money and if they biggest financial gain is to program out DJs then thats what theyll do, they wouldnt be writing themselves out of the picture as they can continue to update and upgrade their software that they sell to the clubs not the djs
That would depend on what Serato (even tho a meant any developer) wants to do. If Serato wants to create master systems run by RIAA, fine. They arnt the only ones who can develop - and if people WANT to retain local control and value the DATA that could be generated by running a local system someone will write and sale the software to us individuals who want to can do it.


Quote:
The labels still have to negotiate with US.

whos us??

DJs / Club Owners / Software Developers / Artists


Quote:
Quote:
Like I said RIAA does not hold ALL the cards, they might have all the music - but having all the music does not make a hot club night.


Sure it can, but not having any music can most definatley ruin a night


Rob Base


Im going to answer this all with 1 answer, all of your counter points rely on a world where data is stored locally, the time is commign to where NO data is stored locally, if you want to buy an song you log into some site and buy it from the cloud where its played remotley wherever you want but its never physically on any of your devices, its stored where its stored and thats it, your not going to be able to buy a computer with a HD because the way data will be accessed is changed. Sure you cant control whats already out there so if you want dont get the software and you can keep overpaying a dj to play hits from 5+ years ago over and over
nik39 9:01 PM - 25 April, 2011
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Quote:
Quote:
Why the hell would someone stream all the files again and again when it comes to clubs? Just deliver it once, then add some DRM into the playing app. Case solved.


lol exactly



I guess its no use trying to explain it to people who cant think progressivley

You mean "hypothetically"?

There is a difference between consumer-cloud stuff and business-2-business cloud stuff. If for any reason the internet connection has some issues... for the consumer stuff it's not so important. For a club not being able to have any music due a broken internet connection means big money loss.

Not so difficult to understand.
vinylmanipulator 9:18 PM - 25 April, 2011
wasn't this a traktor review and comparison?!?...lol
AKIEM 9:20 PM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:

Im going to answer this all with 1 answer, all of your counter points rely on a world where data is stored locally, the time is commign to where NO data is stored locally, if you want to buy an song you log into some site and buy it from the cloud where its played remotley wherever you want but its never physically on any of your devices, its stored where its stored and thats it, your not going to be able to buy a computer with a HD because the way data will be accessed is changed. Sure you cant control whats already out there so if you want dont get the software and you can keep overpaying a dj to play hits from 5+ years ago over and over


As long as its physically possible I will be storing my own data on my own drives - some shit I dont mind being in the cloud, some shit I dont mind being DUPLICATED in the cloud - but as long as physical storage is cheap as hell with more space then I will ever need - I am going to keep my own data locally - who is going to stop me?

Im sure drive makers are happy to hear it too.

The point is that IT WILL NOT MATTER WHERE THE DATA IS.
AKIEM 9:21 PM - 25 April, 2011
Quote:
wasn't this a traktor review and comparison?!?...lol


Its the argument against auto-sync
ninjaty 9:47 PM - 25 April, 2011
Two big draw backs to cloud music servers.

1. Bandwidth limits through service providers. Verizon has a 5gb cap on their "unlimited" 4g plan. If you were streaming music through your phone all the time you would eat that up quick.

2. This pretty much guarantees poor people will not have access to music anymore.
dj_soo 10:08 PM - 25 April, 2011
this is actually an interesting discussion - should be it's own thread tho
reggae delgado 12:03 AM - 26 April, 2011
Quote:
locked data can be hacked and traded, with the cloud system the day they stop getting a payment they click a button and your entire access to music stops on the dime. Do you think club owners will be late or miss a payment when the people your paying can shut down your night mid party.


Yes, cause that happens right now with DJs! Lol