from what i've heard you guys are a good quality source and legal, too bad you are not an international service so we gotta stick with what we can get outside canada and US :)

It's all well and good but a music video has no value anyway. It's a promotional tool for artists, music and merchandise/sponsors, therefore the investment/value obtained from a music video is only worth as much as the audience (numbers) it hits.

This is why Youtube and Vevo have HD videos ready to be viewed (and easily downloaded if you wish)..they are quite frankly "giving away" their content, both music and video, which can be viewed virtually anywhere in this era where everyone has a mobile-internet enabled device in their pocket.

The only people buying music videos are hardcore fans who want to buy a shitty looking video off itunes rather than simply stream/download in 1080p for zero dollars, and the video DJ's, who essentially are of net benefit to the "record industry" whether they put money directly into the pot or not, they are promoters.

More views=more promotion=more commission+sales, that's the way it works today.

^but someone still owns the content - the record label. To steal it and sell it for your own profit is a copyright violation = illegal and you can be sued

Christopher2.... that's actually not completely true. The new licenses for music video require a new set of royalties to be paid to the labels (here in the US at least), which we adhere to and pay. What you are saying used to be the case, but nowadays the labels, at lease business affairs at the labels, consider music video an asset and are constantly looking for new ways to monetize it. Go ask Sony what a music video distribution license runs these days... you need to pony up $50K just to get someone to answer your questions. I'm not kidding.

I have to agree with the primary post on this thread. Once a logo, or a chyron or watermark is placed on a music video release, and released according to the terms granted to us by the labels, Screenplay VJ-Pro, PO and other legitimate distributors do have clear legal recourse in the event someone decides to just go into business for themselves.

This business, when you are trying to do it right, is not a cheap or an easy thing to do, particularly on our scale with all of the material we represent. While we understand that really all DJ's want is just the content without the drama, we won't/can't sit back and simply let our content be abused. We are obligated by our licenses to protect it on behalf of the labels, as well as keep ourselves in the business of giving you all what you want, how you want it.... and without the drama.

Best,

Doug Howard
www.vj-pro.com

i agree with all the above, however sometimes labels force you to do "workarounds", i think all major pools only offer services to north america and europe which leaves the other 60% of the globe without material to work with. thanks to the "unofficial" pools people get access to it.

so can someone list which pools are legal and not legal in the U.S.?

As per Universal Music, "Videos are now monetized assets and no longer just for the use of promotion". Ever since itunes, labels want to get paid for their videos. Nothing is free anymore.

^ Please explain where the unmarked HD copy comes from.

I know a few vj's who have stated and posted that they have direct access to label distribution "by just asking".

How is it that Youtube has HD 1080 copy up faster than our normal providers do?
This has always puzzled me, and the loose copy that always seems to break before the Promo's get it suggests things I can't prove.

Take Gaga's - Born this way.
The day after the Grammy's her performance was "available" with the CBS marking.
The next day, the studio version was available followed by the identical live version properly marked, (as it would appear to us subscribers).

So as Vj's I just want to say that, yes we don't care in the same way as our guests don't care what our excuses for not having it, and we will do what we have to in order to stay on top of our games.

This nonsense with extended story line intros, floor stopping breaks and cold fades do nothing but frustrate us trying to mix it and piss people off on the floor when the music stops for the yappin' drama breaks.

So based on that, what are our options besides not do video?

hmmm.... speaking of legal vs illegal video pools, seems 8th wonder's hosting is down

Aaron must been really pissed lol

Something above the roar of the crickets on just where or how these tracks get released without the apparent knowledge of the label that produced it would be awesome.

Because as I posted before, its pretty obvious that in fact this happens and in some cases gets to remixers faster than the Promo's.

So, its a genuine honest question and not a trap of any sort.
I take the word of the Jim R's and DH's and yourself very seriously.

Finally, if these "unofficial" tracks are released in a quiet out the back door way, how can anybody get all up in the face of the guys who do so much to make these tracks mixable.

This is not including mashups that cross labels, or hype intros with clever editing at the breaks etc...but it seems that the majority of us want straight up intro/outro tracks which is a much different thing and not above the reasonable factor.

You opened this discussion for a reason, so if you please could help uncover this mystery it would be great.

Tx

It's easy to become a legit pool. Just call the label and ask. Screenplay has already paved the way for editing and we've helped with the concept too. Promo Only and Rockamerica do edits too, just not as many. But all the mixes are cleared by the labels too. I think people are afraid to call and ask the label. Yes, you may get rejected and you may have restrictions, like no editing, but at least you are doing it the right way. And yes you may have to pay, but it's part of the business. Get used to it. People don't call and ask cause they think it's too hard, don't know where to start or are afraid they are gonna get rejected. Or worse, they don't want to cough up a portion of their revenue for the video. But that's how it's works. You can't take someone else's content and modify it without their permission and make money off it. It's their work...get their permission and pay them for it. That's what keeps the industry going.

What is even more serious about it is putting out a song before it's signed to a North American label for example. You can actually screw up the marketing and deal with that label. I know the internet has made it available to get stuff all over, but making and edit and putting it out and promoting it before a deal is signed is serious. Let's say Kontor has a track that will eventually go to Ultra. If you scoop it from Kontor and make an edit before Ultra signs it, and put it out, the DJs in North America will be all over it and play it before Ultra plans on releasing it. Then some radio stations jump on it and it doesn't get full support, so it doesn't peak the way it should. 4 months later, when Ultra wants to push it, the radio stations and DJs say "that song is old", and it's a lost case for that song. When a song is marketed, it goes to Radio, TV, Internet and local channels all at the same time. You only get one chance, so you have to blast and get it out to as many avenues as possbile, all at once. This happens all the time, so wait for the label to put it out or give you permission.

If you want the track, go to Kontor directly, and they will tell you they don't have a North American deal yet, so you'll have to wait. You could blow a deal worth tens of thousands just because you want to make a few bucks.

If you choose not to follow this suggestion, that's fine. However, just wait for itunes or Vevo to have it. That's considered a release in that country or territory.

i wish someone scoop it from lil wayne and make an edit before a label signs it that way it's a lost case for that song.

This is very interesting, thanks.
So it seems there are layers to the industry and differ nationally which I did not know.
I would have figured the artist who signs with the label is the primary company, but I can see that is wrong now.

The question of permission is still very vague.

How are we as end use vj's supposed to know what is what if we are the only ones held to a standard of legal?
There are loose operations starting in the recording studio and all along the way to us and nobody certifies copy to us.
If you kill the leak upstream, your basement won't flood I guess.

Good info, thanks

Xtendamix, good read. The quote I copied above is sad but at the same time, its not going to stop remixers from putting it up, and you know that as well as anyone else, so why not contact the labels and let them know "song x is already available and out there, no use in trying to can it, can we have your permission to support it in Canada now?"

I know, easier said than done, but once its out there, its out there. There's no going back once its released. They should possibly restrict by territory just as beatport does if its possible if they want to stop the leaks.

and when I mean they, i meant Kontor on youtube.

I'm not saying to block content, youtube is good. However seeing it on youtube and creating a video edit, adding beats and "servicing it" and making it available to a few hundred or thousands of DJs are two different things. You can't control youtube, but you can control what you service. Just call the label and check with them to see if it's ok. But actually call. Make contact with them.

Basically, if you aren't getting content from the labels, or at least permission, then don't claim you are a legit pool. Just do your thing, but at the end of the day, just realize that you are in the wrong and there may be consequences. If you aren't asking and playing by the rules, then the risk is all yours, and realize that one day when something goes wrong or you screw up a deal, you may get in trouble, so be prepared for it.

Our pool has worked in Canada because we deal with the labels every day. We ask permission for every track and the labels approve it through the AVLA. So there's no surprises later. However, it does come with it's fair share of frustration and rules that we don't agree with. Denied on tracks that we have a video for and Sony not permitting editing. But it's the label's content and they get a percentage or revenue. So in essence, they own part of the company. So they know who we are and what we do...but that's Canada. The U.S. is different and as we are learning a much bigger fish. But there's 10x the potential and 10x the population. But there's 10x the lawyers as well, so be careful.

A few points I would like to make on this subject.



1) Touring European DJ's come to the US all the time and PLAY tracks from their "territory". The "fans" and DJ's check out their webpage with charts, playlists, etc. They can "find" all these tracks on the web with ease.



2) I read somewhere that YouTube is one of the most used "search" websites now. There are plenty of tools freely available to everyone on how to get audio/video content from YouTube.



3) Because it IS "old" at that point. This is the day an age of the internet. People will find what they need when they need it. And in point about traveling European DJ's and what they play. They generate a buzz around their name and everyone wants to hear those tracks again... so they will find it. If someone locally tries to say this is a "new" track when everyone knows different... then yes... it is an "old" track that point.


I do understand the points being made from Xtendamix & Doug. Very valuable information. It is nearly impossible for the record labels to keep track of how far their music gets distributed or even played outside "their territories".

Maybe someone should sue the guy who turned on the internet, that person opened up the flood gates of hell. And secondly, the guy who created windows and other software that abuses copyrighted material, by allowing it to be copied. Also, all these services that allow FREE hosting and file sharing among individuals and groups, they all need to be sued.

I mean really, who do people think they are? You think you have the right to view a video, listen to a song, copy it, own it, share it, delete it in a week? You think you have any such rights as a human being?

If someone sings into a mic, turns a camera on and makes a nice tune, they are all deserving of millions of dollars, this is the only reason they turn the camera on in the first place, they need your support otherwise no more music, just keep consuming and feeding this bubble determined on growth, despite the fact the burble burst years ago.

Funny how everyone is so keen to self satisfy, but nearly everyone believes that media has no physical value worthy of printed/digital currency, but is still an object of desire although more temporary than a hot dinner, this is why it's not sustainable for most people.

Maybe, every time media crews go to poor disease/war/disaster ridden countries they should have to pay the stars of the "show", give them royalties based on youtube views, make them millionaires for keeping millions entertained for days.

Perhaps make it illegal to edit and sell this content? Come on guys we need to keep this thing going, we're going to need more ideas like these.

on this topic...

I highly suggest everyone get a hold of a copy (legally or whatever) of this documentary.

ripremix.com

"Creative media is only worth as much as people are willing to pay for it"

How much are people prepared to pay for it? Less today than 10 years ago because of availability which labels chose to support.

If someone sold you a house that was only half finished, would it be worth its potential value? No, this is why video jocks buy edited versions over original versions, most edited versions are not legal, and some never will be due to red tape, you can't condemn people for making these available, otherwise you condemn our industry which is VJ'ing.

F*ck the laws from the land of the lawless, who is right?

and then the whores come in.... shaking their back sides for the menfolk...

Men laying their trick-money down. Twenty dollars to pay the rent? Maybe not. Maybe instead I'll spend it on the whore.