Or Mac OSX, which is a *NIX kernel and has all the avantages of Linux. On top of that you'll get a nice GUI and properly build hardware ;)

Excellent point...
but I already have my computer built..and
Alot of these guys on this site have dedicated machines for SSl and some of them are unlucky enough to have windows based pc's, be it through using an existing laptop or simply buying a laptop which is windows based because that is what they are farmiliar with.
Linux would be the easiest and safest way for such people(myself included) to have the stability of mac OS/X. In the case of the GUI, i personally am not bothered with having a shit looking GUI because when you have a dedicated SSL machine stability is your number 1 priority.

Dillinger, do you have any statements to back up your opinions? that statement isn't really justified. Windows xp pro has been just as stable as my mac os x box. blatant bashing of windows and praising of linux isn't going to motivate the SSL developers to develop a linux version just because you think windows is crap.

Coming to think of it .... XP Pro has NEVER crahed on me. I know it still has the legendary BSOD .. just never seen it.

Hope XP 64 Bit will be same. Although MS is closing in on *nix, they still have a long way to go.

I'm a big linux user, I have two machines at home and several at work performing all kinds of tasks from web server to router and all sorts in between, they are amazing.

However, as a desktop OS linux is just about as lame as they come, the xserver, KDE and gnome are far from being stable. The font rendering, paticularly on LCD screens is woeful. I've not found a single decent file manager. Soundcards and sound apps in general are a headache to set up and use. I could go on...

Then we come to distributions, Serato release linux SSL and they've got it working nicely on Fedora with a 2.6 kernel. Then along come the users who've bought SSL with "linux" support and they find it won't work because they're running mandrake, or suse. Suddenly SSL aren't supporting 3 OSes they trying to do 10. The developers time starts to get used up squashing bugs on multiple distros. No new features can be added and SSL becomes some crazy program used by geeks who can be arsed spending half their lives resolving dependencies.

For me Windows XP is rock solid, I manage over 100 XP machines at work and I can honestly say I've never seen a stability problem with any of them that couldn't be attributed to broken hardware, a network problem, or a third party application.

FS ran on Linux so that it would be "stable" and we all know how well that works.

Linux is a GEEK OS.
You get started w/ linux when you upgrade to a new WINDOWS PC and have a 'spare box' left around to either collect dust or become a test machine for you to learn Linux. Bet you had to download your first image of Linux off your Windows machine.

I'm not knocking Linux, I have a couple boxes w/ linux, NONE of which have a desktop environment, since it is so behind the times and downright crappy.

LINUX is not the answer to the DESKTOP woes. The GEEKS are to busy building/enhancing servers.

...and help posts go through the roof because people can't get SSL installed because they can't get Linux setup properly on another partition. After the nightmare I had getting Linux setup for FS I'll take quality software o a not as stable as Linux Windows OS where installs are a lot more pain free. Linux is a great OS but SSL seems stable enough that it's not worth the trouble (unless the Serato developers have a lot of free time on their hands). And I've actually had Linux crash way more than Windows XP.

I see the windows faithful have spoken

Nobspangle.
In regards to SSL having to write multiple programs to multiple editions of linux, there obviously has to be a decision made as to what version can be used.. for example red hat 9.
I have no doubt that you could manage 100 machines with XP which are running basic Xp Programs like excel and word.
And please don't make direct comparisons between SSL and FS as they are as far removed from one another as can be.

I have had Xp crash on me in front of a packed nightclub which costed me a contract with that nightclub because everyone just walked.
SSL didn't even have a chance to shutdown as it normally does by still playing the song and showing the exir screen. The thing just died in the arse without warning.

And it wasn't a hardware problem because my computer was way over spec, no dirty needles, no loose connections, nothing.
What was it?
SSL? Not likely
OS? Perhaps
Couldn't have been anything else..

Bottom line is..
I'm not pissed that it crashed and cost me a contract.
because that is part and parcel of using anything containing software, it's not written for every single situation and it WILL crash eventually.
Widows is not as stable as everyone would like to think, in my country police use windows based software for road speed cameras and between people getting clocked doing 900km/h (no shit) the cameras have been programmed to reboot their cpu's every 3 hours because they were freezing due to poorly written software.
Windows may have the greater market share and so that dictates what we purchase because we must conform for compatabilitys sake.
But in a situation where you don't give a shit what the next person has and you have a dedicated SSL machine Linux is the superior product.

Actually, it could have been a dodgy file... its been know to happen.

I didn't jump on here and make this suggestion empty handed. i have spoken to many people including half a dozen software engineers whom i work with and i kept coming away with the same result. Windows is a poorly written program.

I would like it if i could have some input from rane about this. Perhaps im dead wrong about linux,and i thank everyone for their input but i didn't post this discussion to talk to anyone who is not a software engineer and can give a clear and decisive answer.ie Rane.

Exhausted that option, went home and played the same file over and over, no problems

Rane doesn't employ any software engineers... you might have better luck with the Serato guys.

How would i contact them?
Are they involved with this website in anyway?

Just because your system is high spec doesn't mean it can't have a hardware problem. If XP crashes it is almost certainly a hardware problem, or some other badly written program installed that has caused it to crash. The fact that you built your own PC only points towards this being the case.

As to your comments on distros, this simply wouldn't work. Serato say works on redhat. I say I don't really like redhat I think I'll try using gentoo. I can't get it to work and go to SSL saying "I've paid for this please help me" serato say "go jump it only works on redhat" I start a personal vendetor against serato and end up in prison for harrasment. Doesn't sound too rosey to me.

Plus you have no response to the fact that the xfree/xorg gui simply isn't stable enough to be considered for anything as critical as playing out in front of a crowd.

IMHO, Windows can only get better .. It may not be rock solid like some of the *nixes eg SOLARIS but it's getting better with time. If there was an SSL for nix I would go for solaris .. never rebooted my solaris box for anything !! uptime = 783 days and counting (on UPS, running sol 8, web,mail,dns,dhcp,mysql,imagemagik etc etc)


As for your crash .... it does happen. You were just unlucky. Some of us have not experienced it .. at least not at a live event. I hope you can find the absolute cause. A home made PC is really not throughly bench tested, like lets say a brand name PC for hardware stability among the different components. Hardware instability is well known to cause crashes on any OS.

Always have a backup when live for these kinds of events. I always have a few real vinyls and a premixed cd in a pioneer cdj-700s ready to go. Thank heavens I have never had to use them during a live perfomance because of SSL.

start your pre-mix with a long lateral (across the grooves) vinyl scratch, makes it less aparent of a crash.

All I can say is wow ;) Have you read or searched this forum much my friend?

I'll break it down for ya :) The Serato guys do all the software developement and they host this forum, which they help moderate to support our lovely customers.

If you need help the best place to post is in the Help section.

Serato? Are they the same as Stanton? ;)

Abomination !!! ...... What an outrage !!! punishable by ....
Castration 1st,
7 days later STONING to near death,
A week later burning at the stake to the knees,
.... and then forcing you to swallow the FS saucer box, chocking you to death

Hehe...like whoa dude...like 420 me to like death maaaan LOL ;-)

that's some pretty gruel shit there 42k ;)

Better move to a safe-house...

I used to get some random resets on an XP box because the motherboard wasn't grounded solidly to the case. It had 2 gigs of RAM, 2.8 P4, 200 Gigs of empty disk... it wasn't Window's fault...

Once I fixed that, that box stays up for months with no slowdown unless I install something that needs a restart.

If you cheap brands of components when building your own box, and don't do the homework finding out incompatibilities before choosing, you'll have random crashes willy-nilly for sure.

I'm not commenting on your crash, just sharing my own experiences.

Once again, thankyou all for your input. i don't want to exclude anyone from this discussion becasuse it would undermine the purpose of this site, but these next questions are directed at Shuan or josh.
For Our application (SSL) is Linux more stable than Windows?
If so
Is it possible to create a standardised "SSL Linux" from the original Linux Source code?
Is it possible to create SSL for Linux?
And finalyy but most importantly..
Is it feasible?

Dillinger, I think your quick dismissal of Windows is unsubstantiated. I run many real-time Windows XP Pro and Server 2003 with uptimes of many months. The systems are top-line Dell servers but I have never had a problem. To note, I am stressing the server WAY more than SSL would, never crash and never die. That being said, I had MANY linux systems crash and die, not just Red Hat 9, but RH9, Fedora (FC1 and FC2), Mandrake, FreeBSD, etc. The fault 99.9999% of the time is a hardware failure, it is rarely an OS issue per se. The lesson being, buy quality hardware and you will have no issues. Period!

Cheers,

:: chuck hasek
:: dj saint
:: boulder / denver co
:: www.mercury26.com

Ok, i'm going to post this in yet another place.

Windows is not explicitly unstable, and I can prove it.

I have a friend who was a field engineer with GE for 30 years. In 98, he installed a drive system at Disney World and a monitoring system to go with it. Previously, they had HUGE stability problems: computers would crash and need to be reloaded about every month. A few of the other engineers had tried various flavors of Linux, BSD, Sun, etc. and none of them were any better.

My friend installed 4 computers running Windows NT 4 Workstation instead of the one computer his predecessors had installed.

FIVE YEARS LATER, they called him because the computer had stopped logging data. The problem was simply that the hard drives were full. He added another couple hard drives to the SCSI chains, and they started back up almost instantly (after configuring it to use the drive and restarting the computer).

The point is that those 4 computers ran for FIVE YEARS in an industrial setting. Some of the fans had stopped because they were clogged with dust; they had not been restarted except for power outages in those five years; and they were running flawlessly.

The problem with Windows stability is that people expect it to do too much. In all honesty, Linux shows the same stability problems when people expect it to do all the things a normal person wants to do on a Windows PC.

People just don't understand the limits of computers, or do they know how to take care of them.

I've been using Gentoo Linux usng a few 2.6 kernels for almost a year following a major Windows XP crash last spring. And in that time, i've realized that the problem I had with XP was in hardware. Now, the computer has lost its boot sector and the floppy drive is starting to fail, so...the computer's basically screwed. But neither Windows nor Linux were at fault.

I honestly believe that Macs are better laptops, but it's mostly because of the hardware and fundamental differenes in processor design.

Seriously, Dillinger, you need to check your facts before you say "anyone who knows about..." supports your opinion. I'm a Computer Engineer at GT and I sure as hell don't agree with that garbage.

I just don't like windows, and I won't spend money on it again.
Frankly, I don't like Linux that much, because no one produces professional-level Audio software for it.

If someone comes out with a replacement/upgrade for SSL, Logic, and Ableton on Linux, then I won't buy a Powerbook, but it's not going to happen.

Just a minor note, Final Scratch, originally ran on a customized version of BeOS, and for anyone else whose used BeOS, it sucks, lol. BeOS isn't exactly the same as linux.

Dillinger, you should read a bit more about linux before praising it and bashing windows:

There is no "original linux source" cause there is no "the linux". Each distro' is a combination of several components.

ey dog---just go back to lugging crates:}


also--how did you loose the contract? isnt a contract a contract?

no way... BeOS was actually ahead of its time. apple almost bought BeOS which would have really gave it a shot in the arm, except apple bought next instead. (but that's a whole different ball of wax for another time.) Be just never found wide acceptance because of its limited driver support. as graphics drivers and other devices kept getting more and more advanced, developers couldn't keep reverse-engineering software to make them work in BeOS. BeOS is actually very similar in design to Mac OS X...

i forgot to mention, it was one of apple's former people (jean louisse gasse) that started Be as well... if you know about him, he's a real character, always good for an excellent quote.

Maybe the fine print read
" Termination:
The employer may terminate this Contract on the
following just causes: train wrecks, power failures, skipping CD's, broken records, Crashing SSL or any other causes as the employer deems fit."
Sign Here ->
By signing this document you loose all rights.
"

lol. People wanting linux, and there are BeOS fans in this forum... seems that dj's are big computer geeks too...

and what about wine?

hmm.. somebody tried to instal/run SSL under wine?

mimo, i'll be the first to say I seriously doubt ssl would run under wine. wishful thinking though. I for one would be the first to ditch windows and run ssl on linux if they had a native version,.

s42000 April 28, 2005, 7:28 AM


What a difference two years makes!

I'd add "LOL" except it's really not funny.

I agree with Dillinger. All he is saying is that he wants SSL compatible with Linux. You can't bash him for that. We have an option for Windows users and Mac users so why not for Linux? Most of the programs nowadays, (aim, limewire, VNC, Java) are all compatable with Linux. They release them because it gives the users more options to do what they want. Look how many Linux OSes there are www.distrowatch.com They can't even come out with one version for Linux? Come on....

That is because most of these cross-patform apps are in fact written in JAVA which is ment for that.. Software like Serato would have to be largely rewritten for linux which would probably not be worth it commercially.

Linux is fine for much, and better for some, but applications like serato are IMO not one of those..

Actually, it could have been a stray cosmic ray traveling through your processor or RAM.

In grad school, my specialty of sorts was the space environment (I'm a space systems engineer now) and a major consideration in onboard computing is radiation effects (i.e. particles from deep space hitting stuff). On Earth, we have the nice atmosphere to protect us from most cosmic rays, but some higher energy particles and their second and third order children from reactions with the atmosphere still reach the surface every now and then. When these things slam into a processor or RAM, they can case a Single Even Upset, which can range from a latchup or gate rupture (your computer locks up) or even a burnout (that particular transistor circuit gets cooked). This problem only gets worse as transistor size on processors gets smaller (say, when you buy a better, more over-spec'd machine).

If you'd like to know more, see
en.wikipedia.org
for SEU and
en.wikipedia.org
for cosmic rays

let me once again say that likely have a better chance getting a freebsd version of ssl than you do linux, given osx's bsd roots.

then again, do you really want the developers diluting their efforts producing for a platform (*bsd or *nix) that probably won't even get much use?

did you guys see now dell is offering computers with linux pre-installed on them =)

First they start selling AMD processors, now Linux for consumers?

Actually, you could get a version of Linux on your computer before this, but it was near impossible. They've been selling it on their business side for years.

Windows Loses Ground With Developers
developers.slashdot.org
Blame Linux.

Windows only sucks for people who don't know how to maintain a computer. Everyone comes to me "Brian, fix my computer, its sloooowwww" Well idiot, maybe u should delete your history once in a while... or run a spybot program... or heaven forbid, a virus scan!

There is no "original linux source" cause there is no "the linux". Each distro' is a combination of several components.

- You can come close if you do something like GNU. the main difference will lie in the hardware handlers, but if you focussed on the main distros of linux like fedora, suse, debian, redhat, or lindos..maybe even a port for free bsd. you'd cover most of the bases.

Windows only sucks for people who don't know how to maintain a computer. Everyone comes to me "Brian, fix my computer, its sloooowwww" Well idiot, maybe u should delete your history once in a while... or run a spybot program... or heaven forbid, a virus scan!

- totally agree.... crashes will occur regardless of windows, osx, (even Linux) if they don't configure their machines right. when i look at the machines of djs who have had crashes..it's usually because....they use their laptop for everything under the sun....bogging down the memory/cpu with shit like adobe/microsoft services. some even have live internet connections when they're djing...talk about not watching your back..... golden rule should be that scratch live is the only thing you're running on it..especially if it represents your source of income. if you get spyware/adware/virus while surfing porn then it crashes while you dj, you have no one to blame but yourself...not machine, the operating system, or the software.
but to make my pitch and point about linux....the hardware to support linux could be so much more affordable then what you need to run vista (and definitely the apple markup on macbooks).

The ideal situation would be low cost linux platforms that boot to a simplified gui with simple tools (but an option for command line) that make it even easier for non-techie djs to use...but licensing and oem'ing the necessary hw/sw vision seems to be outside the scope and short sightedness of the developers/users involved.

Dear all,

It is not a question of which desktop O/S is better than the other. Both Linux dists and WinXP are quite good these days (I prefer Linux).

It is simply a question of which one do you want to use, and its called choice.

I want to use Linux (Ubuntu/Debian in my case).

Both O/Ses have problem, like most O/Ses.

So lets not bash each others choice and in stead try and use Serato on Linux.

This post deserves its own sticky thread!

Kudos.

if i was to add one more point...

Linux is growing as an o/s for consumer electronics...this would be like a wireless router, etc that is a compenent that needs programmable intelligence, yet doesn't require an intensive U/I. In this case the U/I has already been designed, they just need to port it and present the "total" package.

For those complaining about the learning curve with linux :P it's still all drag and drop.

What would be incredibly cool, would be a serato distro :)
Ooo thats a good idea. It would be solid as a rock :)

hard as my cack =)

Now how's that for an explanation! Crazy shit...

Serato guys???

Any words now??

cheers!

yeh,, im curious too

I think Apple's Mac OS X has gotten so good that people would rather just buy a Macbook than buy a Windows PC and take the time to put Linux on it. Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of celebrity and professional DJ's use either Windows or Mac (emphasis on Mac) already, us professional/semi-professional/wish-I-was-professional DJ's may tend to take that same route.

i'm semi-professional,and dont like mac's,whats wrong with me,i best get down the doctors.


oh and i'd like to SSL running on linux,that way my money wont end up in the US.

And I think that there is another issue here:

A a good MACBOOK cost US$ 1.500,00, and, for the same price I got a "PC" with better harware specifications than a MACBOO PRO (that costs US$ 2.500,00, with 15'' screen).

Remember that now, MAC uses same hardware as PCs, the only difference is that the MAC OSX would not install/run on non-MAC hardware (at least, not without a hack).

The issue is that MAC OS is a much better/more somehow-stable/less power-hungry OS than Windows.

But Linux is so good or even better that MAC OS so, the point is that anyone could get a MAC OS performance on "any" regular PC basis hardware, spending a lot less money.

Anyway, I could even buy a MacBook Pro, but honestly, I'm not willing to pay US$ 1.000,00 more for a system that is not as good as my laptop, I would prefer to have my system running on a good Linux (Ubuntu - debian based) distribution than on a much more expensive/less-powerfull MacBook Pro.

I would even prefer to have a "hackintosh", but that is ilegal for now. (Even dou, I would give it a try in the near future).

I don't have the same issue as Dax on my money ending up in the US, since I live in Brazil, and I got realtives in the US, so, I always end up buiyng stuff there when I'm visiting (much-much-much less expensive, about 10% less than half the price).

So, I think I made my point. The issue is hardware-price for the money. MAC is good, but not that good to make me willing to pay 67% more $$ on a 10% inferior hardware with a better, but not that better, OS.

cheers!

i was only joking about my money endding up in the US.

have you tried tiny XP?
i'm running that on my SSL laptop and loving it.

And just to make my previous post not that longger, I just want to make sure that there is no incompatibility on having a Serato running on a GNU OS.

Many companies is selling software to Linux systems. And the source-code is not open.

So far, I got my SL-1 configurated and running as a sound-card on Linux, but I can't get Scratch Live to work well under linux (since I've been trying to wine the software up... it runs, but just as hardware disconnected, even dou the audio is coming out from the SL-1.

I couln't make the Scratch Live software to recognize the SL-1 as the SL-1, just as a regular soundboard.

I got Mixxx runing OK, and I'm having some hard time on Xwax, but I'm sure I will get it running soon.

BUT I WANT TO USE SCRATCH LIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, just a "sight of the future", MixVibes will release soon the "CROSS", a software solution (better then the home-edition) that can run under Windows, MacOS and LINUX.

cheers!

i'd like to add my voice to the crowd about a linux version, what with the proliferation of cheap netbooks around these days. no fear about damaging a cheap laptop on the road and if it's linux it can be reliable and stable.

A linux version is a waste of time, Serato developers would have to split their time between 3 OS rather than two. I'd rather see them develop the software more

+1

-1

+1

I don't get some of you people. You guys always cry about stability. You say Windows is unstable. So now when other DJ recommend something that is stable, you guys don't like it. Dillinger opened the thread with great true facts about Linux...



True. Think about it. If The American Government, Telephone Exchanges, and utility companies use it to manage the utilities and deliver it to YOU, don't you think it would be stable. Seriously think about it. These companies deal with millions to billions of dollars. Do you think the would use something that is unstable to deal with millions of dollars? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to get it.

So if stability is a a critical think to you (which it is to everyone) there shouldn't be a problem with it.



The Serato developers wouldn't have to split too much time, because Linux is stable. If they write the program right they won't have too put a lot of time in. As for any other program. You say OSX is stable. Well the developers wrote the program right.

I'd be very interested in a Linux version.

+1

OSX is a commercial unix, so the development is comprehensible i think.

Windows sucks, indeed. But if you have a clean system for playing only with SL, you don't have any issues. I had installed an out-of-the-box version of Windows XP Home SP1 and updated it (SP3) and never had problems with the OS or SL.
And after cleaning XP (I did it with nLite) the notebook runs like hell.

I think Windows XPH SP3 is a great OS - if you know how to use it!

If we look at the tons of people using Windows XP and the more less ones who are using a Mac, it's normal that you hear so much more problems about Windows. I don't say that Windows is great or better than OS X or Linux. But it's not as bad as it's standing.

btw: Vista is crap! :)

True... Damn Serkan me and you finally see eye to eye... LOL...

Come on... now I'll have to change my mind ;)

Shouldn't be too hard!!!

+10000000000000000000000000000000

Come on guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shit!Wrong sign...hahahahaah

-10000000000000000000000000000

Come on guys!!!!!!
Bring us some Linux drivers

LOL... Yea, these people don't know nothing about computers and operating systems. Plus linux is so much cheaper, uses less processor, etc. This is a good idea, I stress one more time.

If there isn't demand for linux, then this forum wouldn't exist.

You mean "thread", not forum (I assume).

Considering this thread has now been active for nearly four years and has only 79 posts in total (some of them disagreeing with the idea, like this #80 post I'm writing now), I wouldn't say there's convincing evidence that it would be worth the effort for Serato to commit the time, resources and money to developing a Linux version.

There's a very big difference in financial/logistical feasibility when comparing government/large corporation software (much of it using in-house programming) and a commercial product for end users with a wide range of technical expertise.

Probably Serato and Rane's most important questions (in terms of how realistic a Linux version of SSL is) would be:

1) "How many more SSL systems would we sell if a Linux version of the software existed?"

2) "Would the additional sales (if any) be sufficient to pay for the added development/support costs?"

My guesses to the above questions are "Very Few" and "Most Definitely Not".

Oh, and something no one else has touched on: exactly *which* flavor(s) of Linux should be supported?

Very very true, but as you know people don't use the search feature on here. You’re a victim, because if you used it in this case, you would notice that is lots more threads out there with the same depend. You never know how something goes until it is tried. When SSl was created Mac wasn't a very popular system. Now look, the probably make more money from Mac users than Windows users.

They might attract a lot more DJ's... There are probably DJ's who use Torq, Traktor, or any other program who wants Linux also. So if Serato is the only company with Linux that DJ might start using Serato instead. This idea can make money period. They might not make as much they wanted, but can make money. In some cases that is the only thing that maters. Every company takes gambles with their products. Serato took one with the SL 3, not many people demanded a new interface, but they still made it.




Also true, but the point with the government using is, that it is stable, and that is what DJ's want. So if the government had no issues with it with their huge purposes, do you think DJ's would have issues with litter purposes than them? I don't think so.

So I have to say that I've run SSL on fedora core 9, ubuntu 8.04 and 8.10 using wine. The program seems to function fine in internal mode. I have not pushed it, but it hasn't crashed either. That said if the Serato team made a linux driver it should be able to work with wine. This driver might have to be open source so it can be compiled to work with most flavors of linux. Once a driver is made the team would only have to keep updating the windows version of SSL and the new features should work in linux as well.

I have installed XP in a virtual machine but the performance was lacking (core 2 duo with 2gigs of ram split so that each os has half).

I don't mind having a dual boot but SSL is one of the only reasons I boot into windows.

Dr0p you might have to hook me up...

There you have it... If it is not meant to work with Linux and someone got it working with no crashes, it has to work when it is meant to work...

It (the premise of this thread) isn't about "making it work" through emulation, hacking or whatever. Though it's very cool to read about that stuff...

It's about creating a stable, supportable, commercially-viable port of SSL to Linux...presumably one that the average DJ could use as fearlessly as the existing Windows and Mac versions.

The number of DJ's (and friends in general) I know who use Linux in any form is exactly zero.

Also somewhat relevent to this discussion, since someone brought up "netbooks" awhile back: it was only after Microsoft relented and offered inexpensive OEM Windows XP licenses for netbook manufacturers that the netbooks started selling in any numbers. Netbooks sold pre-loaded with Linux are now a tiny minority.

Dj Knockout101 I just started a private discussion that has the basic instructions to do what I have done.

DJMark I think a native linux version would be awesome, but I don't see that happening. There are too many flavors, kernels, window managers, etc. Even if they picked one flavor, kernel window manager to support the average user would likely have trouble making sure their versions of everything were correct.

Emulation works and would not add an entire new version that would require support from the dev team.

In case you missed it, that was part of my point in an earlier post.

I consider the real-world feasibility of an "official" SSL version for Linux to be zero.

Let's keep wishing that we get it...

Supporting another OS, which is not even widely spread across DJ's? That won't happen.

nik39, has it perhaps occurred to you that the reason Linux is not widely spread across DJs is because of the lack of a Serato client for the OS?

I've been spinning for a short while, but I already know 4 people that use netbooks for spinning.... only one of them uses Windows. I also have a secondary system I'd LIKE to use for SSL, but unfortunately I am not lined with gold and cannot afford to buy a Windows license for it.

That said, I'm finding other solutions, and as I meet more and more DJs, I'm finding that fewer and fewer of them are using SSL due to an incompatibility with Linux.


Yes, that's right.... Serato is losing market share.

Tell me that's not relevant. Then tell Rane's business line the same thing and see what their response will be.

My quick guess at why linux is unsupported would be along the lines of what Dr0P just said and it's very true. Even within the varied hardware available to PC users using XP/Vista there is a huge number of unique problems (for the most part since most macs are identical hardware it isn't such a huge issue) adding linux to the mix creates more potential for a huge number of variables that can and will cause issues and then people to be saying "well scratch live is shit, it's unstable and doesn't run right"

I don't really get the big deal for linux anyway, if your using a scratch live dedicated laptop you'll barely ever notice the OS underneath.

No offense intended here...but I personally find these unsubstantiated anecdotes far from convincing.

Product development, testing, regression, etc. for a Linux version would add considerable expense. Software development isn't free! Given the relatively low usage statistics for Linux, I find it very difficult to believe the additional expenses would be offset by increased sales.

Especially now, when you can get a very capable Windows laptop (or used MacBook) for $500 or less.

And I agree with the previous poster....as long as it's working okay, the actual OS is pretty irrelevant when using SSL.

I should have added "customer support" to the above sentence.

Just b/c they own a Netbook doesn't mean they would like to DJ on a Windows system. As DJMark has pointed out... there are so many things which make the average things more complicated on Linux - the average user will give up. If you have tried Final Scratch in the Linux environment you should know (though I must agree a lot of things have changed in Linux since then).


I highly doubt that one thing has to do with the other.

Or would you like to explain which DVS they are using on their Linux systems?

Did they decide to stop using a DVS since they switched to Linux?

I seem to remember a site a while back from someone that had been trying to crack the serato code by reading what was going back and forth on the USB cable with the aim to make it linux compatible.
Seriously, buy a cheap laptop running XP and set scratch live to pop up on startup. As long as your getting good performance who cares what OS is hosting it?

Having just bought a MacBook and finding that, apart from Serato, which runs smooth as silk (Waveforms and VideoSL) that it is easily the worst experience I've had with computers since 1994, I'm supriised that serato hasn't cooked up their own linux distro, or even better than that, their own laptop..

Minimal linux disto, boot straight into Scratch Live... Sounds great to me...

+1

+1

would be a bit too limited i think. you could make a dedicated, stripped down osx installation tho

I've spent the last months bouncing between Mac/Win on laptops for a new machine (friends being equally split on input, or generally just obnoxious fan boys for their club, and I've had both) and so I dug... While I wouldn't run Vista, cleaning up a commercial machine out of the box isn't an issue for me (or just ordering a custom/boutique unit) - I've decided on Win (Win 7 actually, based on some inbound updates and below-the-deck Win8 info).

Obviously Macs work, but the price and hardware is slightly masochistic for me regardless of the general-use benefits because I'm buying a dedicated machine - so there's a lot I don't care about from both builds.

My net conclusion was: just get your PC hardware straight, check your drivers, and gut your OEM start-up programs... (see: computer basics) if you can't do that, then buy a Mac. The rest of the arguments are fan-based or akin to arguing WRXsti vs Volt when you only commute ten minutes to work (i.e. "go mean or go lean, who cares as long as you get there"). At the same price, your PC hardware is beastly and your Mac moves like a pro soccer player.

Personally, I'd rather spend the $ on other equipment and more music, but I don't fault someone for going Mac or even WinXP based on comfort zones and usage. Regarding Linux.. meh... someone recently remade Burgertime I'm told. ^^ peace

sorry but this is just wrong.

osx is based on bsd which is a totally different thing compared to windows. that includes all the great things that come with unix.
also windows has some major design flaws (not design like graphics) let alone millions of virii and malware.
those are technical facts. they have nothing to do with emotional fanboy stuff :-D

now the price ... that's a different thing. if you think apple hardware is overpriced or not that's a subjective opinion. there is however also the option to run osx on non-apple hardware which only costs $29 but you need to be tech savvy to a certain extend and have matching components. it does work like a charm tho if done right.

The Operating System argument which we've all heard countless times is always preference based. It's no different than arguing Ford vs. Chevy / BMW vs Mercedes-Benz.

Serato/WINE intergration has been done it's just a matter of building a driver to crossreference both operating systems port designation. Everyone that gets it working usually dissapears since they weren't in it to help the community it was just a selfish cry for assistance on something that they were 100% lost on and have probably switched back to using Windows again by now making the driver that was created by experienced Linux users lost. And the people that made it couldn't give a shit less about DJ'ing because there too busy Computer'ing

Both OS's serve there purpose and both have their pros and cons. The only con about Linux (in my opinion) is the lack of product support, which is the reason it's never made it to share the big stage with the two juggernaut operating systems. Since Mac & MS have the market covered and there not going anywhere or willing to share their peice of the pie with anyone (since Mac has even cut out "Big Brother" and just continues to use the *nix Kernel (for free / "open source") and seems to think it's ok to give nothing back the community that built them.

With that being said, try Mixxx on for size if your a 100% Linux user. You'll find it in your Software Manager or apt-get. It's the same thing, runs really smooth, far more customizable then Serato, and it keeps it all nice and plug and play (the "Windows Way") for you.

By the way, if you manage to get SSL operating seemlessly under the *nix platform, like you all keep begging, or crying to have someone else make work for you (which btw... isn't the "Linux Way") then what will you do about the lack of ITunes support? or IPod support, since just clicking the check box next to Import Itunes Playlist isn't going to cut it.

So, my suggestion use a computer for your DJ'ing and keep it ONLY for your DJ'ing. No internet, no virus scans, minimal resources, Windows XP SP3 Professional. And leave all the internet / viruses / porn, on the computer in your bedroom, far from your DJ equipment

Cheers.

I'd like to see SL on Linux since I'm a big fan of Ubuntu.
But I'm 200% sure we will never see a Linux version of SL/ITCH.

I use Ubuntu for my main computer, and I have a dedicated machine for SL. The SL requirements are not going to require an expensive laptop.

+1 No market for it.
Most people are too stupid to build overviews or rescan id3 tags.
When you mention Linux, they probably think of the „Peanuts“.

serato needs to build their programs to run with any computer... because not everyone can afford an upgrade in split seconds!